I barely even knew that she had given birth. Don't we have our own lives to live?

I with babsy1. Why the heck would I care what a famous person does with their baby? I usually don't even know these movie stars anyway. I loved breast feeding my daughter and I do believe it is the most nutrious food for a baby in its first year. But for the 1,000 th time, breast feeding is a deeply personal decision. It takes a lot of work and committment for some women to breast feed. Some are not able (adoption, health reasons etc...) But what ever the reason, it is not our business. Besides, there are whole generations of healthy people who were bottle fed.

Honestly, I think this country should focus on what we eat post first year. Obesity is probably a bigger threat to our overall health.

Laura:Ignore your nay sayers. I think it is awesome that your mom went back to school. It is amazing that on this blog, people would actually criticize someone for trying to make their lives and the life of their child better. I swear some of these anonymous posters would criticize God if they could.

Leslie: I think everyone who uses a screen name are pretty much sick of the obnoxious useless anonymous posts that have come about since you stopped instituting the sign in requirement. It makes me think your more concerned with having a large number of posts-even at the expense of allowing trolls to make 1/4 of the comments.

I am in the process of weaning my 9 month old son from breastfeeding. I wanted to make it a year, but because I am a professional with a more than 40 hour work week, the pumping has just gotten to be too much. I am going to wean very slowly and expect we will make it 10 months and maybe longer with some breastfeeding and some stored breast milk and some formula.

This was a deeply personal decision that took an enormous amount of committment and planning and endurance and produced more than a little anxiety and bucketfulls of tears. I certainly would not feel comfortable making this decision for anyone else. So, while I think it's an important decision to make, it's also only the baby's mom's decision to make. Everyone else (including reletives, but especially strangers and the media) should back the he!! off.

Let me preface by saying, I breastfed my daughter for nearly 8 months and loved it. I agree that it's a personal choice. I've been know to ask friends what their plans are, not because I'm going to lecture them on breast being the best, but to give them the heads up.

My sister gave me two bits of info that helped me get through a lot - the first 6 weeks with the new baby kind of suck and your breasts aren't used to breastfeeding, so it might hurt a bit until you and the baby figure it out. I like to pass those on. So, at 3:00 in the morning when the baby won't stop crying, you are leaking milk and everything hurts - oh, this is what she meant about it sucks. Ok, I'm normal.

Another thing I like to pass on is once you get the hang of it, you can be the laziest mom on the planet. Pick that baby up in the middle of the night, snuggle back in bed and snooze while the baby has a snack.

There is the flip side of the breast debate that needs to be up for discussion. When my daughter was three months old, I started hearing from older women, "Haven't you done that long enough? " This comment came from a 20-something, "Breasts weren't meant to do that." Much like the to work or not to work debate, there is judgment coming both ways. It comes down to whatever works for you.

I think it's ridiculous to criticize women who breastfeed or women who don't.

One never knows the reasons someone breastfeeds or not. I breastfed my son for 6 months. A friend had a baby at about the same time and found she couldn't breastfeed (wasn't producing enough milk.) Both kids turned out healthy and happy.

There's nothing wrong with breastfeeding but I don't think there's anything wrong with not breastfeeding.

Leslie: do you really want to have this discussion without comment registration? I assume you at least skimmed the Juggle blog on this topic - it was fairly heated and they (normally) have far less trolls. (Yes I read both, regularly).

Jennifer Lopez is ghetto.

And no, I couldn't care less what a celebrity mother does. She has an entirely different set of resources available to her.

To breastisbest: kudos to you for being candid about the start-up "investment" in breastfeeding.

I don't care if Jennifer Lopez nurses, nor do I usually care what other people chose to do with their own bodies. However, there are two situations where I do tend to get judgmental (and I'm sure I;ll get flamed for at least one of them(:

1. When women who want to breastfeed are given bad or incorrect information, and thus end up quitting because they think they can't do it. This is depressingly common where I live -- our local hospital has some badly misinformed nurses who come up with such gems as "you need to give your (12-hour-old) baby some formula. You're starving her," "your nipples are too flat; you'll never be able to nurse properly," and "you milk is taking too long to come in (again, 12-24 hours after birth), you have to give the baby formula." I know a handful of women who were convinced by the nurses that they wouldn't be able to nurse their kids.

2. Women with no health, lifestyle or mental problems who nevertheless decide not even to try nursing. Yeah, they have the right to do what they want to do, but I have the right to judge them for it (though I would never, ever comment on someone's choice, neither would I ever quiz someone on how they're feeding their child or why.)

certainly there are some who can't breastfeed, but i think this demonstrates how terribly vain and selfish she is. it is highly likely that she is capable but just doesn't want to committ. why someone who has supposedly waited so long, spent untold thousands of dollars on the "best" linnens, decor, nanny, strollers and clothing for her children would deny them the "best" food is beyond me.

"Obviously, the media covers new mom's breastfeeding decisions because reporters and editors think we do care."

No. They cover breastfeeding because it provides a "legitimate" reason to talk about her boobs. Heh-heh, heh-heh. :-)

Frankly, I really only want to hear about breastfeeding from celebrities if they are actually breastfeeding. It's a total double standard, I know, but I'm all for positive press on breastfeeding. I don't care for negative press on bottle or breastfeeding.

Like breastisbest, if a friend or family member is pregnant with her first, I don't ever ask her intentions, but I do tell her if she plans on breastfeeding, PREPARE and ASK QUESTIONS, since it's very rarely easy at first.

Snore... How many times can we have this debate on this blog? Come on Leslie - earn your money with something original rather than this tired old rant-inducer.

Why a photo today?
Why this photo of Jennifer Lopez?

What I actually find more disturbing is the watch on how quickly celeb women get back into shape post-birth. Where's the beer belly slim watch.

I breastfed for over a year and would again, but I myself was a formula-fed baby. The primary responsibility of parents is to make sure the baby gets fed. I think they need to decide how best to do that.

But I do think that breastfeeding support is important in society. It's much easier to go around criticizing women who don't and call that "support" than lobbying for reasonable leave policies, pumping workplace protection, laws that protect breastfeeding women from being required to leave public areas, and genuine help for new, sleep-deprived parents.

No.

Reminds me of an old Johnny Carson joke.

He said that, unlike most other people, he had nightmares about Dolly Parton.

Johnny dreamed that he was Dolly's child and was bottle fed!

NewSAHM

" Women with no health, lifestyle or mental problems who nevertheless decide not even to try nursing. Yeah, they have the right to do what they want to do, but I have the right to judge them for it "

The people who judge you for being obese use the same reasoning.

I am a staunch supporter of breastfeeding and am extremely proud that I breastfed both of my kids - but I support every woman in her right to make her own decision about whether to bottle feed or breastfeed. I wish that all women would try it and then decide, instead of saying right off the bat that they won't or they can't. But that's about as far as I go on this one. Signed, a card carrying member of La Leche League (still, even though I'm no longer nursing)

foamgnome

"Leslie: I think everyone who uses a screen name are pretty much sick of the obnoxious useless anonymous posts that have come about since you stopped instituting the sign in requirement. It makes me think your more concerned with having a large number of posts-even at the expense of allowing trolls to make 1/4 of the comments. "

Duh!

And Grammar Sheriff!

"Do you care whether Jennifer Lopez breastfeeds?" No.

Laura rocks! Her comment above is embarrassingly accurate.

(And Laura - great response to all of us at the end of the day yesterday. Anybody who didn't read it, should. I'm not sure I'd want to be on the other end of a case when she starts arguing. :-)

No words of wisdom from ArmyBrat? Aren't there enough unanswered questions in today's topic?

Thanks, foamy + AB. :-)

@Too early for a joke? : What was Sophia Loren's son's first thought?

Wow, all that for me?

"What was Sophia Loren's son's first thought?

Wow, all that for me?"

Cary Grant was equally impressed...

No, I don't care. And anyone who goes around judging people for that had better da-n well be sure to live a perfect life.

Corvette1975

"No, I don't care. And anyone who goes around judging people for that had better da-n well be sure to live a perfect life."

Go to the Head of the Class!

Who is Jennifer Alba?

The sun shone, having no alternative, on the nothing new.

Laura -- I think you are at least partially correct, at least on a subliminal level. Talking about breastfeeding is talking about breast. Some men can't resist...And as for women, well, we like breasts too, and this gives some a chance to be judgmental about other women, which is a national pasttime.

Shandra -- Good god, you are so right. It sickens me when magazines publish photos of mom a few weeks after a baby is born, critiquing her bod. Pretty soon I think we will have photos a few hours after birth, just to see who can "win" this ridiculous contest. I feel badly for the celebs under this kind of scrutiny, and of course the pictures make all the rest of us feel lousy about our after-baby bodies. I don't know about you all, but it too about three years after my third child was born before I felt okay in front of a camera.

Foamie - I am trying to delete the offensive comments as quickly as possible. Please email me or post a complaint if certain comments get to you, so i can click delete as quickly as possible. But A) I'm not perfect so sometimes offensive posts stay up longer than they should and B) the anonymity definitely adds value to our discussions here. It's not so much about volume of posts. It's the candor behind much of them that I find exciting and important.

People are naturally attracted to beauty, and as I understand it, Jennifer Lopez is a very beautiful woman. given that breast feeding is the hallmark of intimacy that exists between mother and child, people are naturally curious about a beautiful woman in her moments of intimacy.

A photograph would probably be worth millions!

But let's make no mistake about it, a mother's willingness to breast feed her baby is a testament of her dedication to form that intimate bond with her child.

The same can be said for any kind of judging, yet I still do it. It doesn't mean I'm perfect, it means they did something I think is wrong and it reflects badly on them. I have no problems with people judging me, so what's the biggie? And, by the way, judging is pretty much the only way I have to determine if I want to associate with someone. Except that it's only called "judging" when you come to a negative conclusion. It we decide someone is good for us, using the exact same criteria, that's OK. Where's the problem?

"No, I don't care. And anyone who goes around judging people for that had better da-n well be sure to live a perfect life."

I absolutely don't care if JLo breastfeeds. (I am jelous of her gorgeous hair though!) I breastfed both of my kids for nearly a year and, just like other posters, I feel that I gave them a great start in live and with a full time job and travel thrown in I am quiet proud of myself. But I am not gloating, it's a personal choice, just like some parents decide to make all organic homemade babyfood and others buy it.

DandyLion

"But let's make no mistake about it, a mother's willingness to breast feed her baby is a testament of her dedication to form that intimate bond with her child."

How do you know? Are you a mind reader?

"But let's make no mistake about it, a mother's willingness to breast feed her baby is a testament of her dedication to form that intimate bond with her child."

Oh my God, are you serious???? And a woman who doesn't breastfeed obviously couldn't care less?

THIS type of drivel should be deleted.

Duh!

And Grammar Sheriff!

Posted by: | April 23, 2008 8:18 AM

------------------------------------------

Hey, I am just happy that foamgnome is using paragraphs!

"But let's make no mistake about it, a mother's willingness to breast feed her baby is a testament of her dedication to form that intimate bond with her child."

"Oh my God, are you serious???? And a woman who doesn't breastfeed obviously couldn't care less?

THIS type of drivel should be deleted. "

Let it stand as an example of chowderhead thinking.

I found breastfeeding to be an astonishingly intimate way to connect with my infants.

But DandyLion, your comment struck me as too harsh. I cannot believe that my bonds were more intense than moms who didn't breastfeed, adoptive mothers, and all fathers.

But I have to admit, in the dark corners of my mind, I am always kind of suspicious of moms who don't even try breastfeeding. Terrible, I know--but I do wonder: Are they vain about their boobs? Grossed out by their infants breastfeeding? Emotionally cold? Not sure if I'm reacting to my own love of breastfeeding, or society's weird judgments about breastfeeding. But these thoughts do pop up in my head.

FYI Grammar Sheriff(s): there is a typo in my original entry. "new mom's" should be "new moms'." Can't change it b/c once a photo is put into an entry I risk deleting the pic if I make changes. Forgive me!

No offense, but if you spend your day worrying whether or not Jennifer Lopez is going to breastfeed, you have too much time on your hands. The WSJ really had an article about this? Shouldn't they be spending more time reporting on what is going on with the economy?

I agree that it is a personal choice. I personally would not breastfeed in public, but if you are comfortable with it go for it.

Like atb, I'm all for celebs who get publicity because they ARE breastfeeding and I could care less about celebs who aren't. I think the evidence is quite clear that breast is best for babies though I'm perfectly aware that breastfeeding doesn't always work for some mothers and I wouldn't dream of condemning them for using formula. I've made plenty of *unhealthy* choices for my children since I made the one good one to breastfeed so I don't pretend to be better than anyone else. And personally I don't know how I survived pumping milk in a small bathroom at work, sitting the wrong way on the toilet with the breast pump balaced on the toilet tank. Ugh!
But there are health benefits to babies that make me think promoting breastfeeding is the right way to go.

"The people who judge you for being obese use the same reasoning."

Yeah, I know. And I don't care, nor do I expect anybody else to care what I think. Doesn't stop me from judging sometimes.

"The people who judge you for being obese use the same reasoning."

Yeah, I know. And I don't care, nor do I expect anybody else to care what I think. Doesn't stop me from judging sometimes.

Posted by: NewSAHM | April 23, 2008 9:30 AM

We all judge other people for different things. Your just honest enough to admit it.

foamgnome

"We all judge other people for different things. Your just honest enough to admit it."

Grammar Sheriff!

dc reader

"I feel that I gave them a great start in live and with a full time job and travel thrown in I am quiet proud of myself."

QUITE proud?

Bad-mouthing, gossiping, talking behind people's backs, that's all bad stuff, and I think people associate it with being judgmental. Am I the only one (besides NewSAHM) who is willing to admit that I quietly judge EVERYONE? Watching people's actions and deciding those actions do not fit into my idea of a person with whom I want to associate seems like a pretty normal thing to do. Obviously, I'm not going to agree with every decision a person makes, and some things are weighed more heavily than others, but isn't this how we choose our friends?

Leslie, that was a brave admission about the questions you have about mom's who choose not to breastfeed, and it's EXACTLY how I feel. If you ask why they don't, pretty much the only answer you'll get is "it's not for me," so I'm afraid you'll keep wondering. Though, I recently came across a post on BabyCenter where a woman admitted she thought it was disgusting and perverted. That did not go over well.

Yes, I care.

On a personal level, I care because I think she doesn't know what she's missing. It's a special experience and while it doesn't work for everyone (e.g., adoptive mom or baby with certain medical problems), to me not trying it is like driving past Yellowstone National Park and not checking it out. Maybe you won't love it as much as others do, but there's a good chance you might find it really rewarding.

Beyond that, though, I care just like I care what kind of cars other people drive and if they are smokers. It affects everyone.
*Breastfeeding has very little impact on the environment. (It can have zero, or it can have some if pumping & storing frozen milk are involved.) Formula feeding has a big negative impact. Formula has to be processed, packaged, transported, heated, etc.
*Breastfeeding is better for health. We all pay for others' choices. Does that mean everyone ought to do the absolute best most health promoting behavior all the time, if we even know what that is? No, but here's something that really make a difference and that is very emotionally satisfying. I think she should have tried it for 6 weeks.

"I feel that I gave them a great start in live and with a full time job and travel thrown in I am quiet proud of myself."

QUITE proud?

___________________

No, QUIETLY proud. Except for blogs like this she doesn't go bragging about it to strangers.

atb

"Leslie, that was a brave admission about the questions you have about mom's who choose not to breastfeed"

Grammar Sheriff!

Coming from someone without children (yet!) I find this topic comes up way too frequently on this blog. It is a choice and everyone has said this. I find the celebrity "trend" of having children without ever marrying is more interesting and wonder how that impacts the family. These relationships always seem to break up more often than marriages. Celebrites are definitely not the best source for guidance on how to live our lives!

Greenmts: Your the first person who I have run into who thinks of breast feeding as an enviromental cause.

Couldn't you extend that argument to deal with adult eating choices? Why don't you grow your own vegetables rather then eating canned, frozen, or even ones sold at a farmers market?

The day my wife gave up breastfeeding our son was one of the best days of my life. Every day, every night, he'd be up screaming and pooping blood. We never did figure out what, if anything, in my wife's diet he was reacting to. She tried cutting out wheat, dairy, and umpteen other things, to no avail.

But we switched him to soy formula and ahhhhhh.... blessed sleep. Much happier baby when we finally gave him yummy formula.

The Sheriff is patrolling only for felonies not misdemeanor!

I think I hate this debate more than SAHM v. WOHM.

The questions is...should we care if JLo breastfeeds? The answer is no. I don't even care that she had kids, let alone what she does with them (I'm assuming she will not abuse or neglect them). And no, I don't believe formula-feeding is "neglect" or "abuse."

Everyone always complains they have "no time." This is why...we spend too much of it focusing on the lives of a small group of overpaid, self-indulgent celebrities.

Foamgnome: I agree with you. Anonymity leads down the rabbit hole. Though I can see Leslie's point too...what's someone to do?

hockeyfan - saying you're busy is just a way of saying you're important. In a ridiculous fashion, true. also, watch out for the Pens this year!

Off topic to ArmyBrat-Jimmy V was the man!

"Shouldn't they be spending more time reporting on what is going on with the economy?"

I have your answer - JLo = sexy, Economy = not sexy. Maybe if JLo talked about the econmy it would be sexy? Dunno.

Is Cate Blanchett breast-feeding her infant son?

"I have your answer - JLo = sexy, Economy = not sexy. Maybe if JLo talked about the econmy it would be sexy? Dunno."

If ArmyBrat can't make numbers sexy, no one can!

"But I have to admit, in the dark corners of my mind, I am always kind of suspicious of moms who don't even try breastfeeding.
'Terrible, I know--but I do wonder: Are they vain about their boobs? Grossed out by their infants breastfeeding? Emotionally cold? Not sure if I'm reacting to my own love of breastfeeding, or society's weird judgments about breastfeeding. But these thoughts do pop up in my head."

This just deserves a Hax - wow.

"If you ask why they don't, pretty much the only answer you'll get is "it's not for me," so I'm afraid you'll keep wondering."

This is a perfectly acceptable answer -- anyone remember the OB blog a couple of days ago about how to answer inappropriate and personal questions? I guess not.

I think this topic goes perfectly with the topic from Monday about asking inappropriate questions. I think it's rude to ask anyone if they are breastfeeding, what gives anyone the right to know that besides the parents involved?

It's just one more thing for mothers to criticize each other on. Different things work for different people, once mothers start realizing that and stop attacking each other the better off we'll be.

Kallie

"Different things work for different people, once mothers start realizing that and stop attacking each other the better off we'll be."

Not in my lifetime. Women are their own worst enemies.

All the "It's not for me" types of moms I've met have been well educated, career driven women. They didn't have the warm, fuzzy, coddling, huggy personality, but they were all good providers in other ways. So, good for them and their babies.

Where's the study that links breast feeding moms to helicopter parenting?

DandyLion

"All the "It's not for me" types of moms I've met have been well educated, career driven women. They didn't have the warm, fuzzy, coddling, huggy personality, but they were all good providers in other ways."

So what? How can you possibly know what goes on behind closed doors? How is it any of your business?

BTW, as with everthing else, there is a middle ground between "Anyone who doesn't breastfeed is an awful mother who doesn't care about her kid/is emotionally cold/will never bond" and "Breastfeeding is perverted."

Both of those statements are rediculous. And Leslie, so is "being suspicious" of moms who don't -- after you just blasted Dandylion - "DandyLion, your comment struck me as too harsh. I cannot believe that my bonds were more intense than moms who didn't breastfeed, adoptive mothers, and all fathers."

If that's truly the case, then why are you suspicious and why do you care? You're waffling.

Hold up. I'm not talking about berating women in person about their choice not to breastfeed. I'm talking about it coming up in a blog. "It's not for me" is a non-answer, which is fine, but does not get to answering Leslie's (or my) point. I for one think Leslie's great about being honest and open for attack, especially when she's nowhere near anonymous, and chances are your honest opinions are going to offend someone. That's life.

"If ArmyBrat can't make numbers sexy, no one can!"

Eight and one-half.
Thirty-four.
Twenty-five.
Thirty-six.
Seven to thirteen.
Four.
Ten.

Whooh - anybody else need whatever replaced a cigarette after?

:-)

I guess I don't understand what this debate is still about. Breastfeeding is the best choice. Years of studies prove that breastfed babies are healthier, happier, and smarter -- the most recent studies show that these kids gain 7-10 IQ points over those fed formula. Very few --almost no -- women are incapable of breastfeeding, though many need some coaching, either from grandma or a lactation consultant. There's lots of that advice everywhere, and you don't have to leave the birth center or hospital without help. Formula, a factory-produced conglomeration of powdered cow's milk or soy powder and chemicals, is simply substandard nutrition. To me, its like feeding your kid Easy-Mac or Chef Boyardee all day long because you don't feel like making something wholesome and balanced. It's perfectly fine to judge those who feed their kids from the drive-through every night, so I don't understand why we aren't harder on those who choose to provide their babies with food that's not going to allow them to be as healthy, happy, or smart as they could be. The issue now should be ensuring all women have access to pumps, refrigeration, and a reasonable place to pump at work.

"To me, its like feeding your kid Easy-Mac or Chef Boyardee all day long because you don't feel like making something wholesome and balanced."

What do you feed your kid all day?

Since you asked, my infant nurses, and my toddler eats what we eat -- and we try to do a good balance of healthy protein, whole grains, and fruit and veggies without resorting to the sodium and chemical-filled processed foods.

Maybe the economy should put on a red dress like JLo's and date Ben Affleck. Just a suggestion. I think the greater question is how does a creepy looking,bag of bones like Marc Anthony land a gal like JLo?

Sure-

No, the most damaging thing to a child is being raised in a household where the parents fight constantly. Being raised by a single parent is significantly less damaging then that. And people forced to get married by pregnancy are most likely not going to have the healthiest marriage.

Still an Issue only picks fresh veggies from her own garden and makes meals from purely organic materials. Her kids don't drink tap water (eww, not natural) or bottled water (bad for the environment).

Right? Right? Right? I mean, "there's a lot of advice out there" and with a little EFFORT these things can and should be accomplished to make sure their nutrition is perfect.

Oh, and NOTHING her kids eat is "factory-produced." Yeah.

Correct me if I am wrong but the studies show that breastfed people tend to have higher IQs. I believe the studies do NOT show that breastfeeding actually raises someone's IQ score.

The main reason you see the correlation is that more educated or people with higher IQs tend to breastfeed at a higher rate then uneducated people or people with lower IQs (BTW, I am not implying that all educated people have higher IQs than uneducated people).

Again, correlation does not equal causation. So breastfeeding in itself will not raise your IQ score. At least the data has not shown that it causes people to have an increase in IQ scores.

I did breastfeed my daughter and hope to do the same with my son.

Still an Issue uses cloth diapers, and recycles the poop from the diapers for fertilizer for her home garden. She doesn't own a car & she homeschools the kids....Wow! She has 2 kids? Is that best for Mother Earth?

I'm a man, so my opinion on this subject doesn't really matter, but one of the most disturbing things I've seen was a woman with an infant and a 2-year-old breastfeeding each of them in sequence. The 2-year-old walks and talks fine, eats solid food, and it was just really weird. Isn't that a little too long to breastfeed?

foamgnome

You should know better. IQ is determined by DNA.

Kallie - Actually, the first longitudinal study with multivariate analysis of grown children of divorce disagrees with you. Children of "good divorces" are worse off (on average) than children of "bad" marriages (when abuse is not concerned).

Prebuttal - before you say statistics can prove anything you want, if you really believe that, then you don't have a leg to stand on because you could never prove that the children of happy single parent households are any better or worse off than those in an unhappy married household.

foamgnome

You should know better. IQ is determined by DNA.

Posted by: | April 23, 2008 11:41 AM
No, IQ is an intelligent quotient or score based a series of standardized tests. This score is an attempt to measure one's intelligent.

It is not anything directly derived from DNA or anything biological. In fact, a person can take several different IQ tests over a period of time and have multiple different scores.

Oooh, 11:40 dude -- you better duck!

The studies can say what the want, but in my observations from being from the first generation with widespread divorce- those of us with divorced parents fared much better than those who's parents fought, were loveless towards the other and slept in seperate bedrooms.

Especially now that we are starting to get married/be in more serious relationships.

I don't understand why we aren't harder on those who choose to provide their babies with food that's not going to allow them to be as healthy, happy, or smart as they could be.

Posted by: Still an Issue? | April 23, 2008 11:14 AM

I don't understand why we don't shun insufferable know-it-all bores such as yourself - particularly the ignorant, uninformed ones who don't actually read any of the published research so that they understand and appreciate fundamental topics such as sample size, structure of the study, what it proved, what it didn't prove, whether the study was or wasn't controlled, so that they understand the scientists' conclusions and the applicability of the research to other populations. Understanding the science underlying what we know about breastfeeding, nutrition, and human growth and development, however, might require you to devote some of that precious time you're spending reading Child magazine and judging other parents choices to developing a real understanding of what's at stake.

What is most interesting is that the comments of the breastfeeding jugmentalists, including Leslie and atb, indicate an assumption that the decision to breastfeed or not is entirely the moms', as if dads aren't involved in, or don't factor in, a core parenting decision. Men are so irrelevant in your world and view of families. This speaks volumes about you.

In my experience, the breastfed kids have higher rates of autism and the breastfed kids are socially awkward.

Same experience, different outcome. I guess this is why they do studies.

"I don't understand why we aren't harder on those who choose to provide their babies with food that's not going to allow them to be as healthy, happy, or smart as they could be. "

More evidence that women are their own worst enemies. Sheesh!

I meant to say an attempt to measure one's intelligence.

Typical Leslie. Use a topic she supposedly "doesn't care about" to judge others with her opinion.

Anything related to balance here today?

Jessica Alba's name has been corrected in Leslie's original post.

Do you care whether Jennifer Lopez (or any other of the four million new moms in America this year) breastfeeds her babies?

I only care when another person spreads mis-information. As with all aspects of celebrity some people such as Jennifer Lopez seem to have a lot of influence.

So I definitely care when a celebrity gives erroneous information such as I can't breastfeed because I have twins (I don't know that Jennifer Lopez said that - just using it as an example) or I chose not to breastfeed because I needed to go back to work a few weeks after the birth. Neither of these are insurmountable problems.

On the other hand the current trend of saying breastfeeding is the way to a red carpet-ready body bothers me even more. Most of us didn't have celebrity bodies before the baby came along and we're not going to have one 6 weeks after childbirth either - whether or not we breastfeed.

Bob

"In my experience, breastfed babies scream in pain and poop blood. That's what my son did, anyhow.

Now he's on formula and he's the happiest baby I've ever seen."

Doesn't matter. The Nursing Nazis are going to judge and judge and judge.

cm9887

"As with all aspects of celebrity some people such as Jennifer Lopez seem to have a lot of influence."

The people who are stupid enough to accept parenting advice from JLo deserve everything they get. It's called Natural Selection.

Hey, wait a second. Don't forget NewSAHM. She's one of us judgmentalists, too. ;)

yada, yada, yada- You totally missed the point. I asked for a reason, and instead of answering the question, you pointed a finger and called me judgmental (duh, I own that), providing another non-answer. "My husband doesn't want me to breastfeed" is an answer, though I'd have to counter with, why? My husband is completely involved with my daughter, and I can't think of one single reason why he wouldn't want me to breastfeed. But I do think it's hilarious that unless you give into your husband's demand to not breastfeed, you must find your husband irrelevant. Good one.

From yada yada yada's 11:49 post: "What is most interesting is that the comments of the breastfeeding jugmentalists, including Leslie and atb, indicate an assumption that the decision to breastfeed or not is entirely the moms', as if dads aren't involved in, or don't factor in, a core parenting decision. Men are so irrelevant in your world and view of families. This speaks volumes about you."

Okay, is this serious? Does any man ever have any input into breast vs bottle?

Yeah, yeah, we hear jokes about fathers going "those are MY boobs and I'm not sharing them with some kid", but my wife had a "my body, my choice" approach to the breast vs. bottle decision.

I suspect (almost?) all women do.

So here's a good use for the anonymous posting privilege - who here wants to admit - even anonymously - that the husband/father had a significant input into the breast vs bottle decision?

11:29, your argument is poor. Breastmilk is healthier than formula -- hands-down, so that's an easy decision between two options. Choosing the best nutrition as your kids start solids is much more complicated because there are so many more choices. As with all things, you need to use the best information you have and do your best to make the right choice. We're all still trying to figure out what water is safest/best for environment, etc -- those debates aren't well settled. The breastfeeding debate is -- it is simply healthier and better to breastfeed.

I'd think we'd all pick beautiful fresh veggies from our gardens and feed our kids if it were as simple as doing that or giving them salty canned green beans everyday. But, its not. Like I said before, there are many complicated considerations when it comes to nutrition for older children (and ourselves), but the simple decision between the options of formula and breastmilk is obvious.

I have no children, so I really don't care about breastfeeding, as long as it's discreet. What I do care about is trying to parent my elderly parents from the opposite coast, and trying to avoid getting caught in the woman-vs-woman arguments that permeate this culture. Yes, experts prefer breastfeeding. But children have been raised successfully on formula, and neither choice is indicative of anyone's morals. Nor is that choice anyone else's business. Whatever happened to privacy?

And the baby who screamed and pooped blood was probably allergic or sensitive to something in mom's diet. Had mom (and dad!) worked together to identify and eliminate the most likely culprits (usually dairy--which is another great argument against cow's milk formula!), the baby could have kept right on nursing and the problem would have been resolved all around. One of our children had a sensitivity that resolved after only a day of my eliminating dairy, and that sensitivity passed in a few weeks and I was gradually able to add dairy back in to my diet. If you think your kids' nutrition and long-term health is worth it, you'll give this stuff a try rather than resorting to the canister of soy powder.

"I'd think we'd all pick beautiful fresh veggies from our gardens and feed our kids if it were as simple as doing that or giving them salty canned green beans everyday. But, its not. Like I said before, there are many complicated considerations when it comes to nutrition for older children (and ourselves), but the simple decision between the options of formula and breastmilk is obvious."

See, I disagree with this -- breastfeeding is neither clearly best, nor is it necessarily simple. Read the above posts re: the current state of the science -- correlation does not equal causation. Logically, intuitively, it seems like it should be best, but I don't think it's been proven yet.

And simple? Hahahahaha!!!! Sure, if your kid attaches fine, if you have plenty of milk, if your nipples don't crack and bleed, if you don't mind handling all the feedings yourself, if you don't have to go back to work and find a place/time to pump, etc. etc. etc. etc.

On the other hand, growing your own veggies? Piece of cake -- even if you have a condo, you can plant some potted tomatoes. Turn over the dirt, add a little mulch, toss some seeds in, spend 30 mins. a week weeding (or plant things like blackberries that grow above the weeds), and there ya go.

Don't get me wrong -- I chose to breastfeed my two kids. I did it because I do keep up on the science, and I wanted to err on the side of benefitting my kids. But it was a looooooooong way from a "simple" decision! It was hard, it was painful, it was a constant struggle for the 5-6 months I kept going.

7:54 a.m. wrote:

certainly there are some who can't breastfeed, but i think this demonstrates how terribly vain and selfish she is. it is highly likely that she is capable but just doesn't want to committ. why someone who has supposedly waited so long, spent untold thousands of dollars on the "best" linnens, decor, nanny, strollers and clothing for her children would deny them the "best" food is beyond me.

Well, 7:54, I hope you get your child into one of the "best" schools so s/he learns to spell. Mommy certainly can't.

Bite me, Still an Issue? In fact, bite all of us. You've done nothing to sway people. In fact, all you've accomplished is to remind everyone why women are their own worst enemies.

By the way, I'm assuming you mean 'Still an Issue?' rather than your signed 'Still and Issue?' If you weren't so busy telling everyone how to live their lives, you might have time to get your name correct.

"And the baby who screamed and pooped blood was probably allergic or sensitive to something in mom's diet. Had mom (and dad!) worked together to identify and eliminate the most likely culprits (usually dairy--which is another great argument against cow's milk formula!)"

Posted by: Still and Issue? | April 23, 2008 12:41 PM

Yup, she tried eliminating about 10 different potential allergens (including diary, of course) to no avail.

We tried everything the doctor told us and everything we could find online, but nothing would end his agony except for formula. Now, he is the happiest baby I've ever seen thanks to the formula. Maybe it's because he remembers how much he suffered on breast milk?

"Had mom (and dad!) worked together to identify and eliminate the most likely culprits (usually dairy--which is another great argument against cow's milk formula!), the baby could have kept right on nursing and the problem would have been resolved all around."

Please read before judging:

"We never did figure out what, if anything, in my wife's diet he was reacting to. She tried cutting out wheat, dairy, and umpteen other things, to no avail."

Babsy1,

You said it! My feelings exactly.

Still an Issue

"I'd think we'd all pick beautiful fresh veggies from our gardens and feed our kids if it were as simple as doing that or giving them salty canned green beans everyday. But, its not. Like I said before, there are many complicated considerations when it comes to nutrition for older children (and ourselves), but the simple decision between the options of formula and breastmilk is obvious. "

How is it obvious? Do you make the obvious, simple choice to use cloth diapers? Do you own a car? Why do you have 2 kids when there are plenty of people on earth? Why didn't you make the obvious choice in favor of the planet to not reproduce?........

I don't particularly care whether Jennifer Lopez or any other woman breastfeeds or not. It is a personal decision. That said, I do care that babies, in general, get the best nutrition possible, and I strongly believe that breastmilk is the best nutrition for babies in general (although I understand that there are exceptions). Unfortuntely, these movie stars end up being the role models (snort) for a lot of women out there, and their decisions might impact others. If breastfeeding is considered unpopular, then perhaps some people who make their life decisions based on what they see on Access Hollywood might make a wrong-headed decision not to breastfeed. But this certainly does not mean that Jennifer doesn't have the right to her decision. I do think that women who do breastfeed should not feel shy about openly discussing the reasons for their decisions. Even in this day and age, women need support and encouragement to breastfeed (it can be very hard at first), and the more women who open do it, the better.

"I chose not to breastfeed because I needed to go back to work a few weeks after the birth."

I chose not to breastfeed after the first 2 months because I needed to go back to work and I had absolutely no interest in pumping. I'm an hourly employee, not salaried, and I don't have an office. My lunchtime is sacred - it's my time to run errands, share lunch with a friend, read, take a walk, look at this blog, etc.

It also makes a world of difference with sleep deprivation since DH can share nighttime feedings and I don't have to take time out of the day somewhere else to pump so that he can feed the baby.

So, that's my reason. I'm sure you won't like it any better than "it's not in the cards for us".

IMO, formula feeding is no worse for a baby than daycare is. Both formula feeding and daycare provide care for babies whether or not others believe that the care is 'best'. It's not like we're starving the children.

Emily

"Unfortuntely, these movie stars end up being the role models (snort) for a lot of women out there, and their decisions might impact others."

Again, if people are stupid enough to get parenting advice from celebrities, they deserve everything they get. It's called Natural Selection.

It's always something how people lash out when they are sensitive to the fact that they've made a poor choice for the people who are supposed to be nurtured and protected -- their children. People who choose to feed their kids substandard nutrition when the obvious best choice is not only available, but attached to mom's body, are making a poor choice -- bottom line. Shall we nod and smile at other obviously poor parenting choices? The fact that people are still questioning whether breastmilk is best is purely amazing. My initial point is that this debate should be dead and that we should focus on making breastfeeding easier and possible for everyone.

And "Bite Me" is a very clever phrase indeed.

Okay, is this serious? Does any man ever have any input into breast vs bottle?

Yeah, yeah, we hear jokes about fathers going "those are MY boobs and I'm not sharing them with some kid", but my wife had a "my body, my choice" approach to the breast vs. bottle decision.

I suspect (almost?) all women do.

So here's a good use for the anonymous posting privilege - who here wants to admit - even anonymously - that the husband/father had a significant input into the breast vs bottle decision?

Posted by: Anon for good reason | April 23, 2008 12:27 P

Wow.

That's a lot of baggage you bring to the party. I'm amazed you can even see over the top of all that matched luggage.

If you and your wife are comfortable with the approach you took, all power to you.

In our marriage and family, NO decision of this significance would have been made by either of us solo. So, if a man doesn't have input on a choice this big, I suspect he may not have input on whether and when his spouse gets pregnant, what mode of birth control the couple uses, choice of pediatrician, ob/gyn, and schools, and any number of other significant choices relating to the couples reproductive and parenting decisions.

You're kidding yourself if you think everyone's marriage is just like yours. Thank goodness.

Formula = fast food for babies!

Still an issue

"My initial point is that this debate should be dead and that we should focus on making breastfeeding easier and possible for everyone."

You are dumber than a tree stump if you can't recognize that 1. The debate is NOT dead and 2. You are doing a disservice to your cause with your high-handed tactics.

"It's always something how people lash out when they are sensitive to the fact that they've made a poor choice for the people who are supposed to be nurtured and protected -- their children."

Excellent nonresponsive answer -- really, you should consider a career as a talking head on CNN or Fox News.

Now, would you like to address the substance of the issues people have raised? Perhaps the state of the science? The problems breastfeeding that lead some people to quit? Or is it just easier and more fun to attack their parenting skills and character?

atb, "It's not for me" is not a non-answer. It's just not the answer that you want.

Why don't you go skydiving? It's not for me.

Why don't you like peas? It's not for me.

Why don't you ride roller coasters? It's not for me.

Why don't you vote Republican/Democratic? It's not for me.

You want a reason (that's acceptable to you) for why someone isn't doing what you are doing.

Still an Issue? You're getting flamed because you're a closed minded know it all. The fact is that no one is hurting their child or putting them in danger by feeding them formula, but that's how you make it sound.

"It's always something how people lash out when they are sensitive to the fact that they've made a poor choice for the people who are supposed to be nurtured and protected -- their children"

I formula-fed the babies and don't feel that I made a poor choice.

BTW, I don't care what JLo does, but the fact that she has twins has not even been addressed by the posters. I know that BF is still possible with twins, but I imagine it is more difficult than only one baby.

I chose to breastfeed because it is the best nutrition for the baby, and it a wonderful way to bond with the baby. I did it with my son, and he was a very healthy baby and toddler. He never had an ear infection, and has only had a fever once in his life (he is 8). I hope it keeps my daughter as healthy as it kept my son. I also came back to work 12 weeks after my daughter's birth, so I pump twice a day at work. My daughter won't drink formula (although my son did not mind it, and we supplemented with it). This second time around, my milk production has been much better than with my son, so we are not supplementing with formula at all. It is a commitment, but it is so worth it. I have to agree with Leslie. While I would never openly say anything to a woman who chose not to breastfeed for reasons of convenience, I do kind of judge them silently. Breastmilk has been proven to be best. Women spend tons of money on nursery furniture and other useless accoutrements for their babies. If you can afford all that, why not give them something that really matters, and that is free, and that will keep them healthy and happy for years to come? But I only think this. I don't actually say it.

Emily at 1:02 said:
"I don't particularly care whether Jennifer Lopez or any other woman breastfeeds or not. It is a personal decision."

Emily at 1:21 said:
"While I would never openly say anything to a woman who chose not to breastfeed for reasons of convenience, I do kind of judge them silently."

Same Emily? If so, I'd say Emily is pretty confused.

DandyLion: It is actually faster to breastfeed. You don't have to heat up the milk. :)

People who choose to feed their kids substandard nutrition when the obvious best choice is not only available, but attached to mom's body, are making a poor choice -- bottom line. Shall we nod and smile at other obviously poor parenting choices?

Posted by: Still an Issue? | April 23, 2008 1:07 PM

We nod and smile at the obviously poor parenting job your parents did when they failed to teach you both logic and humility. Why stop smiling now?

Leslie: I think everyone who uses a screen name are pretty much sick of the obnoxious useless anonymous posts that have come about since you stopped instituting the sign in requirement. It makes me think your more concerned with having a large number of posts-even at the expense of allowing trolls to make 1/4 of the comments.

Posted by: foamgnome | April 23, 2008 7:21 AM

foamgnome's comment from lo 7:21 a.m. still stands. Even if the stupefying rehash of a rehash of this topic -- the only purpose of which I can find is to run a photo of JLo's cleavage -- wasn't a bore, the trolls' participation renders it unreadable. Leslie, is this a permanent plan or should we be letting someone other than you know that we support registration?

So here's a good use for the anonymous posting privilege - who here wants to admit - even anonymously - that the husband/father had a significant input into the breast vs bottle decision?

When my son was born, my husband and I were in agreement that breastfeeding was best. But we had a bumpy start, as I suspect a lot of new nursing mothers due, because of pain, sore nipples, milk supply issues, etc. I think I was able to continue, and eventually sucessfully breastfeed my son, because my husband was a constant source of support for this decision. Had he not been, I might have quit. But thanks to his input, I persevered. I did not want to fail our baby, and I did not want to disappoint him. Sometimes, the team approach does work.

Funny, I don't feel flamed. You can answer "it's not for me" to anything, and it's still a non-answer. It's like answering "why" with "because." I'm waiting for an answer, and I'm fine with you not giving it. Maybe someone else will. I also didn't claim formula hurts children or puts them in danger. I always sign my name, so you know what I wrote.

Interesting moral compass.

I think it's up to the one who is breastfeeding to decide what's best for her and the baby. I was breastfed and had a lot of ear infections as a youngster. My husband was all formula, and not sick at all when he was young.

"If you can afford all that, why not give them something that really matters, and that is free, and that will keep them healthy and happy for years to come?"

So every breast-fed child is healthy and never gets infections or fevers? They're happy for years? Really? None ever get depression or cancer or diabetes?

Hmmmm, interesting, I'll alert the media.

Broad generalizations for any arguement are futile and cause one's credibility to flush down the toilet faster than green poop.

Meanwhile, I'll have to let all the people I know with the above problems that their moms should have bottle-fed them.

I think that acting like breast feeding is the cure for everything is hurting your arguement more than helping it. 'Cause guess what? Most reasonable people know that either one is fine.

"I did not want to fail our baby"

I nominate that for Martyr of the Year Award.

"Same Emily? If so, I'd say Emily is pretty confused."

Yes, it's me, and you're right. It does sound like a contradiction. It's a complex issue. I do think that breastfeeding is very personal, and you should not MAKE anyone do it against their will. I just don't see why women who can would not try it, for a little while, at least, knowing its benefits. Caring about it is different than having an opinion about it. Emotionally, I don't care what JLo does. It won't keep me up at night. I don't know what her reasons are, but if they are purely related to weight or convenience, then I do think it's a little selfish and vain. But if she were an acquaintance or friend, I would just keep my mouth shut, because I truly don't think it's any of my business. There is a difference between opinions that you voice, and opinions that you keep to yourself. I think most of us, has at some point, had an opinion about something that they realize would not be appropriate to share with the target of the opinion.

Funny, I don't feel flamed. You can answer "it's not for me" to anything, and it's still a non-answer. It's like answering "why" with "because." I'm waiting for an answer, and I'm fine with you not giving it.

Posted by: atb | April 23, 2008 1:28 PM

When did it became socially appropriate to ask value-laden questions of others? Why must they answer. I'd interpret "It's just not for me" as a more subtle version of, "you've crossed the line and should back off" or "it's none of your business" or "Wow."

Well, atb, you're really good at signing your name, but not too good at reading since I was talking to Still An Issue at the end of my post:

"Still an Issue? You're getting flamed because you're a closed minded know it all. The fact is that no one is hurting their child or putting them in danger by feeding them formula, but that's how you make it sound."

You must have been bottle-fed and therefore can't read very well.

gEmily

"I have to agree with Leslie. While I would never openly say anything to a woman who chose not to breastfeed for reasons of convenience, I do kind of judge them silently."

Your wish is granted! Start judging Leslie. She breastfed each of her kids for 3 months only. It doesn't matter why, it's a b.s. reason of convenience!

"You can answer "it's not for me" to anything, and it's still a non-answer. It's like answering "why" with "because." I'm waiting for an answer, and I'm fine with you not giving it.

I really don't believe that answers are owed to anyone about topics in which they are not intimately involved. Why do I spend my money on baseball tickets? Its none of your business. Why did I spend my money on therapy rather than buying a house in my early 30s? None of your business. We dance around and around trying to find a polite way to say that we don't owe you an answer. You aren't raising the child/paying the bills/you name it, so please, butt out!

"I'm waiting for an answer, and I'm fine with you not giving it. Maybe someone else will."

I did give an answer - see 1:06

Emily- Stop admitting to all the perfect posters that you aren't perfect! You'll lose all your cred! What next? MN made a mistake once and came to a conclusion without consulting with her husband? Tsk tsk. Apparently, all the women on this blog are supposed to be perfect, and the men can do and say as they please without comment. What's going on here? Are women their own worst enemies or something? Wow. Wow.

Really, is it anyone's business? Why do people in lines or on the metro feel compelled to comment on what everyone next to them are doing? Are you that bored? Most of the time it doesn't take a village.

For people who only breastfed for a few months, does anyone have a tip about getting the baby to take a bottle. We are having the hardest time with our daughter, because she just seems to hate the bottle. She only takes it when she is starving, and even then, grudgingly.

To view this topic from a slightly different angle, Jennifer's babies are going to have so much money and opportunities at their beck and call, I have a hard time believing her breastfeeding or not is going to make one flipping shred of difference.

Emily

"For people who only breastfed for a few months, does anyone have a tip about getting the baby to take a bottle. We are having the hardest time with our daughter, because she just seems to hate the bottle. She only takes it when she is starving, and even then, grudgingly. "

Whaaat? A bottle?????? At only a few months?? There better be your breast milk in that bottle!

@MN "So, if a man doesn't have input on a choice this big, I suspect he may not have input on whether and when his spouse gets pregnant, what mode of birth control the couple uses, choice of pediatrician, ob/gyn, and schools, and any number of other significant choices relating to the couples reproductive and parenting decisions."

What mode of birth control? A joint decision (although I don't think I could have kept her off the pill if she really wanted to be on it; what was I going to do, keep throwing them away?)

When and if pregnancy occurs? A joint decision; it takes two to tango.

What schools? A joint decision

What pediatrician? A joint decision

What ob/gyn? Her decision. I can just picture the conversation: "Honey, I know you don't like Dr. Jones, but I think she's really the best one for you. I'm going to insist that you keep seeing her, even though the speculum's cold, there are too many tests, and you think she's too quick with c-sections. I have a say in this, too." I pick my own GP; she picks her own (although if one of us really thought that the other's choice was bad and had evidence to back it up, we'd listen).

Breast vs bottle? I can see that conversation too. Take your choice:

A. "Honey, I know that breastfeeding our baby is painful for you; and you're having trouble producing milk. I know that pumping is going to be difficult for you once you go back to work. I know that it might mean you're going to have to change your diet. But I want you to listen to me - I really, really want you to do this, and I think you ought to."

B. "Honey, I want our kids fed formula. On the plus side for you, I can take turns with those middle of the night feedings. On the plus side for me, I don't have to share your boobs with anyone. So, even though I know that you feel very strongly that "breast is best", and even though you've planned and studied for a long time, I want you to take that bottle I prepared and give it to the kid, now. I'll be busy playing with these."

Which would go over better?

"For people who only breastfed for a few months, does anyone have a tip about getting the baby to take a bottle. We are having the hardest time with our daughter, because she just seems to hate the bottle. She only takes it when she is starving, and even then, grudgingly."

Posted by: Emily | April 23, 2008 1:44 PM

So first, you silently judge formula feeders as horrible parents and then you have the gall to ask for bottle feeding advice from the very "poor parents" you so judge?

Well, I have experience getting a baby to accept a bottle, but I only have one piece of advice for you: "Go suck a lemon."

Oops. I thought "Still an Issue?" was a question.

lurker- You did answer, but you also breastfed, so it's kind of a different question.

babys1- I can ask anything I want on a blog to no one in particular, and you can choose to ignore the question. This isn't the real world. It's an anonymous blog.

Yes, breastmilk in a bottle - I pump. But that's beside the point. How do you short time breastfeeders handle the transition to a bottle? Or is my little girl just more stubborn than most babies?

Emily

"Or is my little girl just more stubborn than most babies?"

No, she is stupider than most babies. It's called Natural Selection. No need to save up for an Ivy.

So first, you silently judge formula feeders as horrible parents and then you have the gall to ask for bottle feeding advice from the very "poor parents" you so judge?

No, I am not asking for advice from the folks who have only fed formula, because they wouldn't be able to give me any, since they have not gone through the transition from breast to bottle. This is a question for parents who nursed their babies and then went had to transition to the bottle. No gall there. Perhaps you did not understand the difference because you were bottle fed. :)

"How do you short time breastfeeders handle the transition to a bottle?"

I would imagine the same way longtime breastfeeders do.

Emily: I was a long term breast feeder. My daughter self weaned a week before her second birthday. I pumped till she was 19 months old.

But I did introduce the bottle at 6 weeks (filled with expressed breast milk) on the advice from my doctor. I continued to offer her one bottle a day till she went to day care.

I was very worried that after going to day care, she would not want to bottle feed (expressed breast milk) all day. Do you know what? She did fine. She did not like bottle feeding all day long but she was hungry and chose to eat. She did feed every two hours when home for a really long time. I think till she was around 10 months old. That was with 2-3 night time feedings as well.

I would suggest just giving her one bottle a day. She won't starve herself. She will eat what she needs to until the breast is offered again.

"Most reasonable people know that either one is fine."
Posted by: | April 23, 2008 1:35 PM

Hooray! It took an anonymous poster to say the most reasonable, rational words of the day.

atb: unfortunately, the pattern of conversation people learn on blogs spills over into face-to-face conversation. By all means, ignore my posts on line. But don't chase me down in the grocery store when I ignore your rude question and turn away from you. You are NOT owed an answer from me, just as I am not owed an answer when I ask you if you are pregnant, or merely overweight.

Fred, How long does Frieda recommend that mothers breast-feed, or pump for bottles?

This is a question for parents who nursed their babies and then went had to transition to the bottle. No gall there. Perhaps you did not understand the difference because you were bottle fed. :)

Posted by: Emily | April 23, 2008 1:54 PM

Ahh, but can you really know the contents of the bottle you see when you are silently judging the parents?

Enjoy your lemon.

"I would imagine the same way longtime breastfeeders do."

Actually, it is sometimes not an issue for babies who exclusively breastfeed for a long time, since they often go directly from the breast to a sippy cup. Which is what we may end up doing.

Bob - I don't think you and your wife are bad parents - of the breastmilk was hurting your baby, of course you had to switch to formula. I commend your and your wife's efforts to try though. I think you are being to sensitive, since I did say that I recognized that there were exceptions to breastfeeding, and it sounds like your baby was such an exception. But I would be happy to suck a lemon, if you still want me to. I always add some sugar to it. It's a wonderful treat, actually.

"Fred, How long does Frieda recommend that mothers breast-feed, or pump for bottles?"

Yeah- let the people that give a rat's a$s rag on Leslie for the rest of the day!

Emily:Are you going back to work? If you are going to work, how are you going to breast feed the baby from work? Or do you work exclusively from home?

"Ahh, but can you really know the contents of the bottle you see when you are silently judging the parents?"

Argh. I never said that I am assuming that a baby drinking from a bottle means that the baby is taking only formula. That's quite a stretch, since my son also drank from a bottle and often drank formula as well as breastmilk. We had to do that because my milk supply was a little low in the beginning.

All I am saying is that in the deep recesses of my mind, I do think that parents should at least attempt to breastfeed if they can (ie, if it is medically possible or advisable, if there are no health issues that prevent it, etc.). It sounds like you and your wife tried it, and gave it up for medical reasons. Stop trying to find offense when none was intended.

Emily, when life hands us lemons, we make lemonade, right?

"Fred, How long does Frieda recommend that mothers breast-feed, or pump for bottles?"

Till your boobs hang down to your knees.

For Emily -- My older baby would only take breastmilk in a bottle from someone other than me. My husband had good luck carrying her around the house facing forward (not in the traditional cradling hold) so she could look around a bit for distraction. Once she hooked onto the bottle, he pulled her close for a cuddle. Our babysitter suggested putting some on her lips first to get her revved up for the bottle, too. That seemed to help as well.

And for Laura...
The state of the science: Well, my ciphering skills may be a bit rusty, but I've not yet seen any evidence or studies or quite frankly any information suggesting that formula is superior. I've seen significant evidence that breastmilk is particularly tailored to the special nutritional needs of babies. Even the waffling American Academy of Pediatrics (who'd never have to buy a lunch again if they submitted to the formula lobby) says breastmilk is best. WHO, everyone. It's not complicated, really -- we're mammals, and one of our distinguishing characteristics is that we provide milk for our young. Not cow's milk or soybean extract -- human milk.

There are lots of reasons why women don't. The availabiliy of formula is one reason. When they send women home from the hospital with a bag of enfamil and no nursing instructions or support, that's a set-up for failure. Things like latch problems are easily solved. Milk supplies diminish when people start "supplementing" with formula, and it becomes a downward spiral. When husbands don't support the decision and understand that nursing moms need fluids, rest, and lots of support, that's another set-up for failure. When women have to go back to work and the only place to pump is the bathroom, that's another set-up for failure. There are many more.

Yeah- let the people that give a rat's a$s rag on Leslie for the rest of the day!

Posted by: ???? | April 23, 2008 2:05 PM

And you would prefer... what?

"It's not for me."

Breast feeding involves an exchange of body fluid, germs, it's both a slimey, yet sticky endeavor, and emits a sour smelling odor. In other words, it's gross.

The same can be said about sex, but that never stopped me from doing it, but I can understand why others could be adversed to it.

In any event, making babies is just a smelly, stinky, dirty, germy, snotty, sticky, slimey, greasy, grimey job. But somebody has to do it!

Foamy, I always used the microwave to heat up the bottles, 12 to 18 seconds. I know, BAD DandyLion! I'm sure that the only food substances known to mmankind that could possibly cause cancer from heating it up in a microwave oven are breast milk and formula. :-)

Emily, I wish I could help you -- both of mine were so happy to get food that they'd have licked it off a broom handle. :-) Did you try to start early? I don't know if that's what worked for us, but with both kids, we started in with a periodic bottle after the first week or two for various reasons, and they were both happy either way. Of course, for some kids, an early bottle means they reject the breast, so I don't think there's any perfect solution.

I don't know if this will help, but when my son kept detaching, the nurses put a dab of sugar water on my breast. He LOVED that; one drop kept him trying for a good 10 minutes. I hesitate to suggest any sugar for a baby at all, but if you're desperate, you could try it once or twice to see if it makes a bottle more palatable. Oh: and if you haven't already, try different brands of bottles and different nipples -- we ended up going through about 4 varieties before finding the one that my daughter liked best.

"I would imagine the same way longtime breastfeeders do."

Actually, it is sometimes not an issue for babies who exclusively breastfeed for a long time, since they often go directly from the breast to a sippy cup. Which is what we may end up doing.***

But, you implied that only short-time breastfeeders would have experience getting a baby to take a bottle. Many babies take a bottle even if they never take formula.

Breast is best for some people. End of story. I don't care who is nursing and who isn't. The Mommy culture is alarmingly judgemental and putting this on the celebrity scene, too, is just ridiculous.

To Anon for Now, or whoever asked about support from the husband regarding breastfeeding - I had support from my daughter's father from the start and it made a huge difference now that I look back. I was fairly young when I had my daughter and most of what I learned during my pregnancy came from books/magazines and older relatives. My mother didn't breastfeed (And I turned out more than fine) so she wasn't a good source of information/support, although she never tried to dissuade me from nursing. My daughter's father went out and bought me a pump, did his own reading so he could assist me if I needed it, talked to nurses and doctors, and just made the whole experience wonderful overall. Would I have nursed without his support? I'd like to think so, but one can never know what they'd do in a situation until they're IN that situation. With my future children it's a no-brainer that they'll be nursed. It was a beautiful experience that I can't wait to have again.

I'm fully supportive of women who choose to nurse and I'd only ask a woman's intent that I was close with - family, close friend, etc. If a woman chooses to bottlefeed that's on her. I wouldn't look down on her but I'd feel a little sorry that she was missing out on something natural and wonderful.

To Anon for Now, or whoever asked about support from the husband regarding breastfeeding - I had support from my daughter's father from the start and it made a huge difference now that I look back. I was fairly young when I had my daughter and most of what I learned during my pregnancy came from books/magazines and older relatives. My mother didn't breastfeed (And I turned out more than fine) so she wasn't a good source of information/support, although she never tried to dissuade me from nursing. My daughter's father went out and bought me a pump, did his own reading so he could assist me if I needed it, talked to nurses and doctors, and just made the whole experience wonderful overall. Would I have nursed without his support? I'd like to think so, but one can never know what they'd do in a situation until they're IN that situation. With my future children it's a no-brainer that they'll be nursed. It was a beautiful experience that I can't wait to have again.

I'm fully supportive of women who choose to nurse and I'd only ask a woman's intent that I was close with - family, close friend, etc. If a woman chooses to bottlefeed that's on her. I wouldn't look down on her but I'd feel a little sorry that she was missing out on something natural and wonderful.

babys1- I don't have any problem separating blogs from the real world. It's not me chasing you down. Oh, and I'm a size 4 with a flat stomach, despite the image in your head.

Still an Issue: You are the reason I stay away from these discussions. Wishing I hadn't wasted the last 10 minutes of my life. Open up your mind, and your heart, for that matter a little bit and you'll see a whole new world in front of you...

All this high-flown commentary about breastmilk being the best nutrition for babies is pretty comical. These same parents, in a few years' time, will be giving their kids Twinkies, Froot Loops, and bologna sandwiches.

Yes, I understand about building their immune systems and the long-term benefits of breastmilk. But, you really only need to do that if you're planning on letting them graze on crap once they're big enough to demand it.

Giving babies formula is perfectly fine -- especially if you follow up throughout their childhoods with nutritious diets. I'm betting that not many of you will.

Foamgnome,
I exclusively breastfeed from home, and pump at work. She will take the bottle, but only when she is really hungry. At home, she breastfeeds every 2 or 3 hours, even through the night. I think she is compensating for the time that I am away at work. Since we started giving her rice cereal, we now mix it with the pumped breastmilk and she takes that pretty easily, with a spoon. But she hates the bottle. Our pediatrician recommended trying a sippy cup, and that seems to work better. I think this baby is just not going to ever take the bottle easily.

Miss S

"With my future children it's a no-brainer that they'll be nursed."

It's a no-brainer that you are too stupid to reproduce.

"If a woman chooses to bottlefeed that's on her. I wouldn't look down on her but I'd feel a little sorry that she was missing out on something natural and wonderful. "

More evidence of your stupidity.

DandyLion

Why did you and your wife have children you couldn't afford to support?

Dandylion -
Let me answer for you.

Because every sperm is sacred!!!!!

Leslie,
If someone says "it's not for me," how about maybe they actually tried and it didn't work, or maybe they are on some kind of medication (for seizures or depression or bipolar) they don't want to transmit to their baby, or maybe they had mastitis or some other chronic problem and needed to stop. Those are much more likely reasons someone doesn't BF than vanity or being "grossed out." Assuming they "didn't even try" is pretty harsh, and their reasons for not doing so are really none of your business.

As someone who fell into one of the above categories and knows several others in the same situation, I really didn't feel the need to give people a lengthy explanation of why I had a bottle when everyone else was whipping out a boob.

In terms of J.Lo, I'll admit I actually do care how celebs feed their babies. I was HAPPY to see her blatantly feeding her kids formula. Makes people like me feel better. How do we know she didn't try nursing and decided it wasn't working out? How do we know she isn't on medication?