The real question to me is who is better at making the weasel flambeau?

I've never been on top of all the household chores (even when I was single!), and though I am better than I used to be now that I am a mom, there are still plenty of things that I let slide until we have to deal with them. Since both of us work outside the home, and I have a very egalitarian husband, we share the load. Sometimes he's more on top of things, and other times I am. If either of us starts to feel overburdened, we talk about it (ok, we usually have a meltdown, then we talk about it).

lands sakes, parenting was never a competition in our household. Competition doesn't belong within a family. I just don't get it.

I've got a good friend who could really use the kind of shift that Brian is talking about. Her husband _won't_ do any of the household chores, because he works outside the home and she doesn't.
Any thoughts on how to introduce the shift, and how to weather the criticism for not "keeping up to standards" from in-laws, spouse, etc.?

StuckIn1950s - maybe your friend needs to trade up for a better husband. Geez, he lives there too, doesn't he? Plus, wasn't he involved in the making of the kids?

During my exclusively staying home phase, I did almost everything, but the heavy lifting. I felt it was my job. My husband left everyday to work at an office and my job was to raise the kid and take care of the house. (Plus, I've got issues. I need to clean my house once a week. I've discovered that other people don't have these issues.)

Since being back to work part-time, DH asked me if I needed him to pitch in again. So, he's back to vacuuming and window cleaning.

I think part of this issue goes back to the question of is staying home open ended for women and not for men? Do most men plan to go back to work in a few years, so keeping their toes in their profession makes sense? Is it more fluid for women?

The way we run our household works for us, and I wouldn't presume to tell anyone else how to run theirs. Why don't you all mind your own business?

I like the fact that my hubby does a fair chunk around the house. I don't know if it is half or not but I am not much into scorekeeping. I am basically happy with it and he isn't complaining too much so all is good.

The only thing that I find a little weird is that the childcare seems to fall a little more heavily on me. These are his kids that he says he wants to see all the time so I would expect that the bulk of the child care would fall on his shoulders once they hit our house. Interestingly enough... at least 50% or more falls on my shoulders.

I was tossing back a few cold ones with the newest stay at home dad in the hood last weekend. He got laid off last year and is enjoying the easy life. Loafing around all day, playing video games with his 2 kids, hanging out at the pool, chucking a few weasels on the barbie for dinner, and every now and then he gets out to cut grass on his new riding mower that he bought by withdrawing money from his 401K.

His wife is *NOT* happy. The housework is getting done, but she says his husband spends way too much time weasel washing, and not near enough time hunting for a job.

"maybe your friend needs to trade up for a better husband."

I think she needs to get her ass out there and get a job. Then she can hire a maid if she doesn't like doing the housework.

What a whiner!

Why don't you all mind your own business?

Posted by: 50's rule | June 27, 2008 8:00 AM

*****

HaHa! Clearly you don't come around here very often!

At our house we both work full time, so we try to divide the chores so that we each do the things at which we are better. My husband cooks and I clean the kitchen. My husband sweeps and mops the floors and I do the laundry. Etc. Of course, we also have to do chores that neither one wants to do or is particularly good at, but those are pretty few.
We have dropped the house cleaning standards a little bit, but at the same time, we don't want to live in a sty, so I really don't get the idea that "no one picks up the slack." At some point, someone must pick up the slack or it just never gets accomplished.

Ever since we moved to Cal-i-for-i-a, Granny done been listeing to those wimens libbers. Granny decide that she should do the huntin' and I should do the wimen work.

I told you somethin', just call her Dead Eye. Prutty neear soon, we had more squarrile, racoon and weasel that I could keep up with. I's way behind on the skinn', tannin' and cannin'. The meat was gettin' spoilt.

Now, Granny don't like to see nuthin' go to waste so she said we outta' trade back works. Fine by me.

(never could figure out that washboard anywho!)

"whoever decided that the chore of folding laundry automatically falls to the person who gives the baby a bath?"

Ummm, it's not about some unconscious stereotype. It's about who has more time, and who can take care of it most easily. When our girl was little and I was telecommuting part-time, it was easy enough to throw a load of laundry in the dryer during a break or during naptime. It made sense for me to cook dinner, because, hello, I wasn't stuck in an office until dinnertime -- and my "office" was conveniently located 15 feet from the stove.

I'm all for keeping the bar low. But there are things that just have to be done -- like, say, laundry, food on the table, basic levels of sanitation in the bathroom. If DH were home all day with our kids, and I had to top off 10 hrs in the office with cooking dinner and folding laundry, that wouldn't be a fair division of labor -- just like it wouldn't have been if I had expected him to do all that stuff when I was home.

"When It Comes to Staying Home, Does Dad Do It Better?"

No way!

Study after study consistently shows that women do better doing women's work than men do. There is a reason we call it "women's work", plain and simple.

Dear Jed,
I believe Granny has you fooled. You do not need to use a washboard anymore. There are automatic washers AND dryers.
You also do not need to hunt. There are stores that actually sell fresh meat - ready to eat. All wrapped up nicely with non-biodegradable styrofoam and plastic wrap.

I kinda like it when the little woman is on top of things, if ya know what I mean. :-)

Study after study consistently shows that women do better doing women's work than men do. There is a reason we call it "women's work", plain and simple.

Can we have something other than your statement that this is true? Like where are the studies?

"Study after study consistently shows that women do better doing women's work than men do. There is a reason we call it "women's work", plain and simple."

(from Annie Get Your Gun)

Anything you can do,
I can do better.
I can do anything
Better than you.

No, you can't.
Yes, I can. No, you can't.
Yes, I can. No, you can't.
Yes, I can,
Yes, I can!

Anything you can be
I can be greater.
Sooner or later,
I'm greater than you.

No, you're not. Yes, I am.
No, you're not. Yes, I am.
No, you're NOT!. Yes, I am.
Yes, I am!

I can shoot a partridge
With a single cartridge.
I can get a sparrow
With a bow and arrow.
I can live on bread and cheese.
And only on that?
Yes.
So can a rat!
Any note you can reach
I can go higher.
I can sing anything
Higher than you.
No, you can't. (High)
Yes, I can. (Higher) No, you can't. (Higher)
Yes, I can. (Higher) No, you can't. (Higher)
Yes, I can. (Higher) No, you can't. (Higher)
Yes, I can. (Higher) No, you can't. (Higher)
Yes, I CAN! (Highest)

Anything you can buy
I can buy cheaper.
I can buy anything
Cheaper than you.

Fifty cents?
Forty cents! Thirty cents?
Twenty cents! No, you can't!
Yes, I can,
Yes, I can!
Anything you can say
I can say softer.
I can say anything
Softer than you.
No, you can't. (Softly)
Yes, I can. (Softer) No, you can't. (Softer)
Yes, I can. (Softer) No, you can't. (Softer)
Yes, I can. (Softer)
YES, I CAN! (Full volume)
I can drink my liquor
Faster than a flicker.
I can drink it quicker
And get even sicker!
I can open any safe.
Without bein' caught?
Sure.
That's what I thought--
you crook!
Any note you can hold
I can hold longer.
I can hold any note
Longer than you.

No, you can't.
Yes, I can No, you can't.
Yes, I can No, you can't.
Yes, I can
Yes, I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I-I No, you C-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-N'T--
CA-A-A-A-N! (Cough, cough!)
Yes, you ca-a-a-an!

Anything you can wear
I can wear better.
In what you wear
I'd look better than you.
In my coat?
In your vest! In my shoes?
In your hat! No, you can't!
Yes, I can
Yes, I CAN!
Anything you say
I can say faster.
I can say anything
Faster than you.
No, you can't. (Fast)
Yes, I can. (Faster) No, you can't. (Faster)
Yes, I can. (Faster) Noyoucan't. (Faster)
YesIcan! (Fastest)
I can jump a hurdle.
I can wear a girdle.
I can knit a sweater.
I can fill it better!
I can do most anything!
Can you bake a pie? No.
Neither can I.
Anything you can sing
I can sing sweeter.
I can sing anything
Sweeter than you.
No, you can't. (Sweetly)
Yes, I can. (Sweeter) No, you can't. (Sweeter)
Yes, I can. (Sweeter) No, you can't. (Sweeter)
Yes, I can. (Sweeter) No, you can't, can't, can't (sweeter)
Yes, I can, can, can (Sugary)

Yes, I can! No, you can't!

If Annie Get Your Gun says it then it must be true.

In our house I am more resposibe for the household chores, but as someone else said it is more an issue of time. I am here so it is not too hard for me to throw in a load of laundry during nap time. Now that I am back to work part time and also back in school my DH has had to pick up some more slack. We are also learning to live with slightly lower standards of clean. I can certainly ignore a few dust bunnies for some quality time with the kids. I am sure my house will still be dirty when they all leave for college, and maybe I will have more time to deal with it then! Maybe it is just me, but I'd rather soak up as much of my girls lives while they are young and worry about the rest later.

Doesn't it just seem logical that the spouse who is home do more of the housework because they are in the house? My wife and I both work full time, but if either of us was a SAH parent, we would expect that parent to do the bulk of the housework because they would have more time to do it.

At some point, someone must pick up the slack or it just never gets accomplished.

Posted by: VaLGaL | June 27, 2008 8:21 AM

In our house, the weasel steps up to the plate. YMMV.

In our house, the weasel steps up to the plate. YMMV.

Posted by: Ge Real | June 27, 2008 9:01 AM

****
If by "weasel" you mean husband, then, yeah, that's what happens at our house too. (At least to some extent and usually without too much nudging)

In our house my wife and I both work full time and divide the housework evenly. This includes raising our infant son. For example she'll give him a bath while I make dinner, and I'll play with him, then read to him and put him to bed while she cleans the kitchen. the next night might find the roles reversed.

I don't understand how people can be in a relationship and not get that it's a partnership. The only way that it will work without the other feeling resentful is if both adults take care of things together.

Doesn't it just seem logical that the spouse who is home do more of the housework because they are in the house? My wife and I both work full time, but if either of us was a SAH parent, we would expect that parent to do the bulk of the housework because they would have more time to do it.

Posted by: | June 27, 2008 8:54 AM

Not if they are home with an infant, they don't. They have time to keep things picked up, but not enough for major cleaning, like the ceiling fan blades, windows outside and in, wet-vaccing the carpets, and the like.

You can just bet that if my wife has the luxury of staying home then darned tootin' she is going to cook and clean and take care of the kids? Why should I get up at 5am, make MY OWN breakfast because she is still in bed, drive almost an hour to work, work all day, drive over an hour home only to have to empty a dishwasher or put away laundry? It doesn't make any sense.
My dinner should be ready, the house should be clean and she should be glad to see me when I walk in the door. I am glad to see her and the kids.

If you consider your hubby/man a "weasel" maybe it is time to "trade up".

See a divorce atty, he will be glad in the long run.

Can't you do things like cleaning the ceiling fan blades or other big cleaning when the kid is napping? Or put him/her in the playpen or bouncy seat while you do it?

Can't you do things like cleaning the ceiling fan blades or other big cleaning when the kid is napping? Or put him/her in the playpen or bouncy seat while you do it?

If you consider your hubby/man a "weasel" maybe it is time to "trade up".

See a divorce atty, he will be glad in the long run.

Posted by: To Val Gal et al | June 27, 2008 9:13 AM

******

Read carefully, I never said that *my* hubby was a weasel, only that if "weasel" was some sort of euphamism for husband (or just male - think about it!) then yes, my husband does indeed step up. But, on the other hand, you are correct in a general sense that if you think of your partner as a weasel, you probably do need to consider either therapy or divorce since that doesn't sound like a healthy relationship.

How often do you really need to clean ceiling fan blades and wet-vac a carpet - I mean really folks. These are once or twice a year chores.

Can't you do things like cleaning the ceiling fan blades or other big cleaning when the kid is napping? Or put him/her in the playpen or bouncy seat while you do it?

Posted by: | June 27, 2008 9:18 AM

Yup. You are childfree, aren't ya?

Seriously, while the kid is napping, I am showering, unloading the dishwasher, paying bills, and catching up on those five minute clean-up tasks that keep the house going.

I wouldn't own a playpen. I didn't think anyone did since 1980 or so. They are a lazy way to confine a child who is at the age to explore. You'll notice that you customarily see playpens on those grainy videos where nannies are ignoring infants in distress. If housecleaning is more important to you than raising your child, you ought to rethink staying home and just hire a maid.

Bouncy seats are fine of your child likes them. Some do. Some don't. It's not intended to be a prison so you can do the baseboards for an hour. I'd rather go to the park with my child or go for a jog with the jog-stroller.

Depending on where you get your data, the average American watches from 3-8 hours of TV a DAY. A DAY. It's not that hard to find 30 minutes a day to clean up, and really, who needs more than that? Obviously, you have to pick up throughout the day, but that's not exactly hard or particularly time-consuming. If a SAHP can't manage that, they need to get some sort of counseling or take a course in life-management or something.

I think every family is individual and it will depend.

I am glad to see in the piece that childrearing is considered a job in itself, because it is - depending on the stage. I see someone's already commented about nap and putting a baby in a bouncer. Sure, that works until you have a toddling walker who is determined (like my son) to kill himself by climbing on everything and pulling everything out of the cupboards. There are stages where the children require Constant Vigilance - it doesn't last forever, but there are those phases and days.

At that point naptime becomes triage - shall I tackle the toilet paper he rolled over the entire living room while I was at the door with the Jehovah's Witnesses, clean up the straws I used to distract him from wanting to climb onto the chairs for the hundredth time, take care of the gross sticky patches on the kitchen floor due to milk spillage, lunch spillage, and the mashed banana in the carpet, or get a chance to make myself lunch and breathe so I don't find myself screaming at 4:45?

This is the kind of call you have to leave to the person "on the ground" so to speak.

And that's just one child, never mind having to pick up the other one from preschool, and the trouble (and mess) kids get into while you are dealing with a poop-splosion from the other one.

But I also think the dads are somehow getting a pass here. Just because someone's a dad and doesn't consider the housework important doesn't exactly MAKE it that way. I find it a kind of arrogant assumption that the lower standards are the right standards (just as I find the reverse true). This is where the individual family's lifestyle and tolerance levels come into play.

I certainly don't think it's fair to dump all the chores on any one person, even though this is sort of how it has worked out for us.

If a SAHP can't manage that, they need to get some sort of counseling or take a course in life-management or something.

Posted by: atb | June 27, 2008 9:31 AM

The OB blog - where to come when you need some know-it-all to tell you what is wrong with you.

When my little honey is on top of things, my weasel has no problem popping in, rising to the ocasion, and getting the chore done!

One thing that the USA Today article doesn't note is that the ATUS shows that when both parents work full time in the house, fathers tend to do more domestic work. Just a side note...

But I also think the dads are somehow getting a pass here. Just because someone's a dad and doesn't consider the housework important doesn't exactly MAKE it that way. I find it a kind of arrogant assumption that the lower standards are the right standards (just as I find the reverse true). This is where the individual family's lifestyle and tolerance levels come into play.

Posted by: Shandra | June 27, 2008 9:33 AM

Well said. Plus, even if lowering your standards is okay, there is a point where the bar can't be set any lower without concerning DHHS, and you are still not getting it all done. You've got to reach a solution that lowers the stress for you as a couple, and that solution may be 180 degrees from the one found by your friends.

"A DAY. It's not that hard to find 30 minutes a day to clean up, and really, who needs more than that? Obviously, you have to pick up throughout the day, but that's not exactly hard or particularly time-consuming. If a SAHP can't manage that, they need to get some sort of counseling or take a course in life-management or something."

atb I'm kind of surprised at that. I don't own a tv and when I was home some days really were that hard. Many days were not.

If it's only 30 min (and it isn't in my house) then that's 15 min per person at night, so why would the SAHP have to do anything?

I think we must have different definitions of chores because at my house it's about 15 hours a week. Laundry, cleaning (vaccuum, mop, dust, tidy, wash porch, windows, wipe down fingerprints, bleach sink, clean cat litter, etc.), bill paying, yardwork, maintenance of home, car, and other possessions, meal planning and prep, library book return, gift/card purchase and mailing, organizing of possessions (who needs new underwear, what's outgrown), etc.

Also my son is a whirlwind. He does help to tidy up but he needs a lot of help to clean up the paints, playdough, keep parts together, wash down toys that have been in the backyard, and so on.

"At that point naptime becomes triage - shall I tackle the toilet paper he rolled over the entire living room while I was at the door with the Jehovah's
Witnesses, clean up the straws I used to distract him from wanting to climb onto the chairs for the hundredth time, take care of the gross sticky patches
on the kitchen floor due to milk spillage, lunch spillage, and the mashed banana in the carpet, or get a chance to make myself lunch and breathe so I don't
find myself screaming at 4:45?"

Martyr Alert!

Well, dang, Donna.

I wuz always a-wonderin' what those new fangled machines in the room off the kitchen did! Washer & Dryer, huh? Elly Mae always seem to go to the room with dirty cloths and come out clean!

And I did wonder 'bout those little trays that Granny brought the rabbit meat home in.

Never could get that clear lookin' paper off the trays!

Martyr Alert!

Posted by: Suck it up | June 27, 2008 9:49 AM

She's not expressing self-pity. She's educating the stupid.

when both parents work full time in the house, fathers tend to do more domestic work.
Posted by: canary28 | June 27, 2008 9:41 AM

I don't understand what you are trying to say - more than what? More than they used to do? More than they would if one or the other didn't work? More than the mom?

I recall reading somewhere, (and I apologize up front b/c I don't remember where) that while modern dads claim to do more house work and claim to share chores 50-50, an independent study showed that it was more like 80-20 or 70-30. The dads only *thought* that they were doing half because they really just didn't realize how much the moms did - many little chores that would slip by dad unnoticed, but if not done would keep the household from running as smoothly.

I remember that a swing was the only way I could get to eat dinner when DD was young. DH was at work. I would feed DD and she would only not scream if I put her in the swing.

When I am off work DD is with me. Yesterday DH was off and DD went to camp. DH and I have different styles but we strive for a happy family first and everything else second.

Martyr Alert!

Posted by: Suck it up | June 27, 2008 9:49 AM

--------------------------------------------

Not a martyr, just a person who is living in the real world and tells it like it is.

Forget about your fantasy world about family life!

How often do you really need to clean ceiling fan blades and wet-vac a carpet - I mean really folks. These are once or twice a year chores.

Posted by: | June 27, 2008 9:27 AM

Twice a year for ceiling fans, when you rotate the direction of the blade between seasons and don't want all the build up flying down in one big clump.

I laughed that someone used Ge Real yesterday due to my typo, very funny!

VaLGal, If I remember correctly, the statistics (which were fairly recent) to which canary refers indicated that men in marriages where both persons were employed outside the home reported doing more housework than men in marriages where the wife was a domestic goddess. This might have come up during the OB, Equal Parenting discussion 10 - 14 days ago if you are curious enough to want to track down a link.

Shandra- Those really are great points. Perhaps my perspective is totally off because I'm not keeping track of the chores as I do them. They are just part of the fabric of life. One person's dropping off library books chore is another's outing to the library. Cat litter and laundry are done in a couple of minutes when we go downstairs to feed the cats. The 30 mins a day are for what I call 'real' cleaning: bathrooms, vacuuming, dusting, lawnmowing, stuff that needs a dedicated chunk of time. Life can be seen as a series of chores, but I'm so not living like that because it's incredibly depressing. So, we're probably on the exact same page. Ya, it takes a lot of time, but I'm not keeping track for sanity's sake.

Re: Martyr alert - actually, no. I work full time outside the home now and naptime falls to daycare. But I have vivid memories.

And atb I agree - I'm at peace with the time, but I do track it because I have a thing about knowing "where the time went" when I'm not progressing on my personal goals as quickly as I'd like because I'm the default house manager.

Thanks MN

I also found this link to a study on the subject:

http://www.nsf.gov/discoveries/disc_summ.jsp?cntn_id=111458

This isn't the article that I recall reading, but that article was probably based on this (or a similar) study since this sounds familiar to me.

When are all you people going to wake up and smell the coffee? Single without kids is the way to go - no responsiblilties Live in an apartment - no repairs or yard work. Eat out and take leftovers for lunch. Clothes go to the cleaners. Hire a cleaning lady and you are set for a life of tv, sports and fun fun fun.

"She's not expressing self-pity"

No, but she's bolstering her workload by rattling off a list of petty details that are part of daily life.

I had to get by the guards desk, walk down the hall, push a button for the elevator, wait for it, crowd in, push button number 8, wait for it to unload and load another 3 floors.. and all before I even get to my office. so what? Big deal!

I think taking care of 1 or 2 kids is a cakewalk with today's modern conveniences. Making lunch=nuggets in the nuker= 2 minutes. You can do 30 more things in just a single hour. I'm not impressed, but I hear a lot of this kind of whining from stay at homers and the times I've worked with them, I found out what they are best at. Wasting time, and when that's your job, I agree, 24 hours makes a long day.

Damn, where were you when I needed that advice that 10 years and 3 kids ago!

So let me get this straight Suck it up.

You would equate pushing a button with changing a poopy diaper and watching the floors go 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8 with watching a child climb on the counter to get the the fine china in the top cabinets?

Not every parent feeds their kids chicken fingers for lunch every day.

I think taking care of 1 or 2 kids is a cakewalk with today's modern conveniences. Making lunch=nuggets in the nuker= 2 minutes. You can do 30 more things in just a single hour. I'm not impressed, but I hear a lot of this kind of whining from stay at homers and the times I've worked with them, I found out what they are best at. Wasting time, and when that's your job, I agree, 24 hours makes a long day.

Posted by: Suck it up | June 27, 2008 10:41 AM

_______________________________

Do you have to try to be such a d-bag, or does it come naturally?

"No, but she's bolstering her workload by rattling off a list of petty details that are part of daily life."

By your logic, anyone who actually responds to Brian's column today in an on-topic manner is a whiner and should suck it up. Nice.

Go bother another blog.

People clean the ceiling fan blades? ;-)

"Eat out and take leftovers for lunch."

Does weasel flambeau microwave well or do you need to reheat it in the oven?

Aaaaiiiieeeewaaaannagggotooomaaaiiiaaammmeeee!!!!

Shhheeeeeeuuuuuuuooooop!

(Sound whining and then sucking up to follow)

I feel better.

Do you?

Not every parent feeds their kids chicken fingers for lunch every day.

Posted by: Bite Me | June 27, 2008 10:52 AM

We need Jillian to come tell us what is proper to feed your children, just like she rattled off her unchallengeable litany of what is appropriate family fitness yesterday.

Chicken fingers are OK Monday through Thursday. On Friday, you should feed your children fish sticks.

@ValGal

Nope- more traditional housework activities than they do when their spouse works either part time or is not employed. http://www.bls.gov/news.release/atus2.toc.htm

Does weasel flambeau microwave well or do you need to reheat it in the oven?

Do you make a soufflé in a microwave? Do you ever reheat a soufflé?

Cretins!

That post was way too short for you Jillian, are you feeling ok?

ValGal,
The other study you are citing uses the PSID, which is a bit different from the stats I was referencing because it is longitudinal, and would be a better way to look at how work in the home is changing over time. ATUS is the only one that asks respondents to report what they did the day before. Not precisely comparable, just giving different perspectives.

I am busy dusting my ceiling fans. Do you need the proper instructions for this?

Step 1
Turn the ceiling fan off.
Step2
Position a tall stepladder beneath the fan in a place that will allow easy access to the blades.
Step3
Carefully climb the ladder and turn the fan blades until one is within easy reach.
Step4
Spray all-purpose cleaner onto a paper towel.
Step5
Wipe away dirt and dust from the top of the fan blade with the moistened paper towel.
Step6
Turn the blades until another dirty blade is within reach.
Step7
Spray a fresh paper towel with cleaner and wipe the blade's surface.
Step8
Continue the above process until each blade is clean.

People clean the ceiling fan blades? ;-)

Posted by: PQ | June 27, 2008 11:03 AM

atb and the childfree do.

Sorry Jillian - your way sounds like way too much work. I just put a sheet under the fan and turn it on. Let it run for a few minutes and all the bunnies will fall on the sheet. Throw the sheet in the washer - voila. Done for another year.

Posted by: Jillian | June 27, 2008 11:20 AM

Where is the step for consuming appropriate beverages?

"If a SAHP can't manage that, they need to get some sort of counseling or take a course in life-management or something.

Posted by: atb | June 27, 2008 9:31 AM

The OB blog - where to come when you need some know-it-all to tell you what is wrong with you.

Posted by: Thumper's Mother | June 27, 2008 9:40 AM "

Exactly. Because what this world really needs is another judgmental prig telling everyone how inadequate they are. Personally, I can do without compassion and respect, that's why I come here.

We just leave our fans on 24/7/365! No worries!

Here is an easier way to clean the ceiling fan blades.

Step 1
Point out to very tall husband how dirty they are.

Step 2
Repeat step 1 several times over the course of several weeks.

Step 3
Give very tall husband cleaning materials and position him under ceiling fan

Step 4
Offer very tall husband kisses and an appropriate beverage for a job well done.

Freudian slip here today on referring to this as the OB blog? It looks much like the old OB with tangents, jokes and very little serious diccussion. Not that I care, if the topic at hand is boring, change it.

"Where is the step for consuming appropriate beverages?"

No, no, you see, that's what we really do when our kids are napping, which is why the ceiling fans don't get cleaned.

Posted by: VaLGaL | June 27, 2008 11:33 AM

I like the way you think. Your plan hasn't been working for me, perhaps because I make the appropriate beverages available before the job is done. Who knew?

"Do you have to try to be such a d-bag, or does it come naturally?"

I'm just educating the stupid.

I'm just educating the stupid.

Posted by: suck it up | June 27, 2008 11:39 AM

delusions of grandeur

"Go bother another blog."

Go find yourself a weasel to whack!

Thanks MN - I have spent years perfecting my technique. I would like to point out that Step 1 must be a simple statement of fact, and not imply that very tall husband *should* do anything about it - that doesn't happen until step 3 - otherwise the nagging will defeat the plan. Also, the fact of the matter is that we sometimes have the appropriate beverages prior to the chore too....maybe that is why step 2 takes several weeks! Cheers and happy weekend.

Who let the kindergartners out?

I don't understand all this fighting about who does what around the house. My husband has a job outside of the house and I have one inside. I don't sit around drinking bloody marys and eating bon bons every day.
I clean his house, take good care of his two children and cook his meals. He takes care of all the bills, the cars and does all the outside work on the weekends.
I know he is tired when he gets home from work so I try my best to have dinner ready and keep the kids quiet for a bit so he can unwind after his commute. Isn't that fair?

I LOVE you, Donna. Will you dump current hubby and marry me?

Be careful what you ask for...

You should have watched Oprah yesterday.

Plus, your bliss is another woman's nightmare. The first time I refer to OUR house as HIS . . . you will see pigs flying by my window.

I never have to clean the ceiling fans or baseboards. My MIL does it. It makes her happy. I choose to not see it as her judging my poor housekeeping skills.

And anyone on this blog can lay into me into time they want. I'm happy. I'm not the one complaining about a husband who doesn't do his share or not having enough time in the day.

"No, but she's bolstering her workload by rattling off a list of petty details that are part of daily life."

The assumptions in this conversation are staggering, really. I wonder what it is about housework and children that makes everyone so hot under the collar.

I work full time and when I was at home, I freelanced for a pretty good income.

That second is actually WHY I know exactly what was going on - I had to be very efficient in order to be the primary caregiver and get my 30 hrs of work done in a week. I couldn't pretend that "today during naptime I will have time to shower, return 11 phone calls, finish this assignment, wash out the refrigerator drawers, get my nails done, and eat bonbons."

I have no need to exaggerate the difficulty of being at home. I liked being at home. But I currently work outside the home in a reasonably senior position in a career I love.

Still, I do laugh when I see people talking about how much time there is during naptime to take care of all the housework. It's Dilbert-bossesque.

Yes, Siggy, I agree. There seem to be so many more mean mommies here now. We had such a nice little blog before and now people are not being very nice.

I think I blame it on Brian for bring this rowdy, dowdy bunch with him!

I am surprised to see this actually written out as a topic. My wife watched the kids on, I think, Columbus day and did the laundry, cooked, and let them drive her crazy. On Veteran's day when I had stay at home duty I planned out a morning trip to the museums, a make your own pizza lunch project and make a batch of cookies, a trip to the library, car wash, and some other errands in the afternoon and had a netflix movie especially chosen for them to watch between 4 and 6pm so I could get dinner on the table for the moment my wife walked in the door. My wife had the same opportunities that I had, but looked at it more as a chore than anything else. It takes no effort to bake 24 cookies, like 5 minutes of prep work. Doing it every day would mean that you could only handle days like that 3 times a week, but when my wife watches the kids somehow she always reverts to her mother watching the soaps and ironing drapes.

Jill, Mean mommies? I thought I saw that in troll garbage yesterday. Are you posing as a troll too?

No, Siggy, I just picked the expression up from the "troll garbage." It seems to describe some of our new guests who apparently came over from On Balance.

Lowering our standards to a point where we balance enjoying our lives with doing the things we think are really important would help everyone be happier and probably healthier. Does a dusty living room really mean that I am a bad person? I'd have to say that I estimate my house-keeping skills, as well as my partner's skills, somewhere in the 40-50th percentile for this country. That said, my kitchen is clean and sanitary, the bathrooms have nothing growing in them, the laundry gets done and often put away, and my house is not a fire hazard. However, tonight I'll have people over for drinks and they will see dust, and they'll see a couple of boxes of stuff from when I cleaned out my mom's garage last month and I haven't figured out where to put the things I kept, and the windows will still be dirty and I hope they won't look at the ceiling fan blades because those haven't been cleaned in a couple years. The patio won't be swept and the lawns haven't been mowed for two weeks and they look it.

Long ago I took Erma Bombeck's "If I Had My Life to Live Over" to heart, especially "I would have invited friends over to dinner even if the carpet was stained, or the sofa faded." I have extended this to include dust on the piano and bookshelves and ceiling fan blades. I will enjoy my friends and they'll have a nice time. If they notice the mess, they're too kind to tell me and they keep coming back so it just can't matter too much.

Live with a little mess and live better. Have more time with your friends, family, for exercise, for relaxation, and enjoy better health through lack of stress and through human connection.

I have great respect for any mother or father that actually gets anything done while they have children in the house. I always find that time just rushes by while we have the kids.

At night, by the time you get home, change clothes, hit the pool (or the playground or the library) then eat supper, the night is just about gone and I have accomplished basically nothing.

I am still working on being productive while looking at whatever they want me to see, settling disputes, getting after them for something they shouldn't be doing and so on and so forth. I find it difficult to multi-task in a family environment. I suppose practice make perfect.

What would be worse - married to DCer or being DCer?

You mean your don't like your curtains ironed along with your boxers and t shirts?

Sheesh, what's with all the mean-ness on this blog? As a lurker at On Balance I found the regular posters to be spirited and opinionated but rarely mean. Over here it's mean *every day.* Why blame the OB folks?

I think DCer exactly experiences the frustration many of us women experience when we hear "don't micromanage your husband when he is taking care of the kids."

DCer ... this is a topic many of us relate to, it's just interesting that you're on the "girls side" with your parenting style. It frustrates me too when I am providing active parenting, to use a less judgemental word, and my husband is playing video games and calling it the same thing. Well, no it's not! And the kids get more benefit out of one way than the other.

And anyone on this blog can lay into me into time they want. I'm happy. I'm not the one complaining about a husband who doesn't do his share or not having enough time in the day.

Posted by: atb | June 27, 2008 12:10 PM

when you have to tell people how happy you are because your attitude tells the opposite story, maybe the problem isn't the other people.

Rebeldad - not sure I agree with the study that it's such a great idea for SAHDs or SAHMs to be trading housework for "leisure time", although I see the point about keeping active with work skills.

If SAHD is not doing housework in favor of free time, that housework has got to get done after "work hours" by one or both parents. Most of us working parents don't spend the workday in leisure time, so frankly I resent my SAHD husband hanging out during (part of) the day and then leaving the housework for me at the end of the day. And unfortunately I do know how that feels.

I think DCer exactly experiences the frustration many of us women experience when we hear "don't micromanage your husband when he is taking care of the kids."

DCer ... this is a topic many of us relate to, it's just interesting that you're on the "girls side" with your parenting style. It frustrates me too when I am providing active parenting, to use a less judgemental word, and my husband is playing video games and calling it the same thing. Well, no it's not! And the kids get more benefit out of one way than the other.

Posted by: Yes, some men parent well but.... | June 27, 2008 1:09 PM

Holy moly. Speak for yourself.

Do you have any studies to back up your insulting statement that kids get more benefit from your approach to parenting? I bet your husband didn't realize that what you intended was to get pregnant, have children, and control each and every parenting decision that came after. Mommy knows best and all.

Me and my husband used to get into fights all the time about household chores. He agreed to go to counseling with me to work on this problem and this is what we came up with.

Every day before work, he writes out a list of what he expects me to do before he gets home and attaches it to the refrigerator. I check each task off as I complete them and after everything is done, I get to do what I want to do, like watch TV, go shopping, get my nails done, visit my sister, etc... If I can't get to everything on the list, I call him and tell him why. No more fights. The key is communication.

If I had to choose between marriage to DCer or marriage to Yes, some men parent well but . . ., I think I'd opt for the weasal.

Thank you for proving how miserable you are! Have a nice day!

---------------------------------------

And anyone on this blog can lay into me into time they want. I'm happy. I'm not the one complaining about a husband who doesn't do his share or not having enough time in the day.

Posted by: atb | June 27, 2008 12:10 PM

when you have to tell people how happy you are because your attitude tells the opposite story, maybe the problem isn't the other people.

"However, tonight I'll have people over for drinks and they will see dust, and they'll see a couple of boxes of stuff from when I cleaned out my mom's garage last month and I haven't figured out where to put the things I kept, and the windows will still be dirty and I hope they won't look at the ceiling fan blades because those haven't been cleaned in a couple years. The patio won't be swept and the lawns haven't been mowed for two weeks and they look it."

Oh Oh. Someone isn't using the 30 minutes each day allocated to her from atb very wisely. Bad mommy. Very Bad.

I think DCer exactly experiences the frustration many of us women experience when we hear "don't micromanage your husband when he is taking care of the kids."

DCer ... this is a topic many of us relate to, it's just interesting that you're on the "girls side" with your parenting style. It frustrates me too when I am providing active parenting, to use a less judgemental word, and my husband is playing video games and calling it the same thing. Well, no it's not! And the kids get more benefit out of one way than the other.

Posted by: Yes, some men parent well but.... | June 27, 2008 1:09 PM

Holy moly. Speak for yourself.

Do you have any studies to back up your insulting statement that kids get more benefit from your approach to parenting? I bet your husband didn't realize that what you intended was to get pregnant, have children, and control each and every parenting decision that came after. Mommy knows best and all.

Posted by: | June 27, 2008 1:15 PM

There's a big difference between controlling each and every decision, and having some standards around childrearing. If we can't agree that kids aren't well served when their parent plays video games or watches soaps all day, then we have nothing to discuss.

I don't hear that woman complaining about having no time. She and her husband seem pretty happy with their house. If she was complaining about having no time for cleaning and freaking out about it, I'd say I'd bet she could find 30 mins. She doesn't need to.

But good luck trying to be less miserable!

I was hoping that after the demise of the OB blog, ATB and MN would just fade away, but I see they've infected OP now. Too bad.

You clearly haven't been paying attention. I've been at OP from the beginning. Nice try! Keep up the good work!

sad

Interesting Moral Compass

"Every day before work, he writes out a list of what he expects me to do before he gets home and attaches it to the refrigerator. I check each task off as I complete them and after everything is done, I get to do what I want to do, like watch TV, go shopping, get my nails done, visit my sister, etc... If I can't get to everything on the list, I call him and tell him why. No more fights. The key is communication.'

What did your husband have to pay the counseller to convince you to live by your husband's list? In manworld, we call this brilliant.

If we can't agree that kids aren't well served when their parent plays video games or watches soaps all day, then we have nothing to discuss.

Posted by: Mommy sometimes does know best! | June 27, 2008 1:21 PM

you might have thought about that before you had kids together.

If we can't agree that kids aren't well served when their parent plays video games or watches soaps all day, then we have nothing to discuss.

Posted by: Mommy sometimes does know best! | June 27, 2008 1:21 PM

you might have thought about that before you had kids together.

Posted by: | June 27, 2008 1:33 PM
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

So true!! Didn't occur to me that a rational grownup would think this is a good idea.

There's a big difference between controlling each and every decision, and having some standards around childrearing.

Posted by: Mommy sometimes does know best! | June 27, 2008 1:21 PM

They are all your standards. What is wrong with this picture?

Now now, you keep talking to those trolls, they'll just keep talking back!

Mommy sometimes does know best! so mommy gets to do it all her way. The problem is that she complains about it all the time.

I told you NO Wire Hangers!

"Every day before work, he writes out a list of what he expects me to do before he gets home and attaches it to the refrigerator. I check each task off as I complete them and after everything is done, I get to do what I want to do, like watch TV, go shopping, get my nails done, visit my sister, etc... If I can't get to everything on the list, I call him and tell him why."

Wow.

So let me get this straight - your husband decides how you have to spend your day, and if you deviate from that, you have to justify yourself to him. However, if you accomplish the tasks he sets before you, he graciously allows you to have some time for yourself.

Wow.

Please tell me that your post was supposed to be sarcastic, and my radar is broken today . . .

Not if they are home with an infant, they don't. They have time to keep things picked up, but not enough for major cleaning, like the ceiling fan blades, windows outside and in, wet-vaccing the carpets, and the like.

Posted by: | June 27, 2008 9:08 AM

And I wouldn't expect her/him to do major cleaning. But they should be able to get dinner organized, throw some laundry in, vaccuum once a week, and stuff like that. And yes, I was home for extended periods with an infant and I was able to do that.

and I was able to do that.
===================================

Touch your a*s*s with a golden rod.

I get the feeling so many of these issues have to do with the fact that no one ever takes the time, before or after committing to living together and/or having babies, to TALK about exactly how the chores will be done and continue to have regular check-ins as necessary. I don't see any direct communication of desires and expectations.

"So let me get this straight - your husband decides how you have to spend your day,"

No, he just writes down what he expects me to accomplish, and whether or not he writes it down, he still has those expectations. I don't always do everything on the list. Things come up, like emergencies and other things need to get done, but I don't have to read his mind anymore. The key is communication.

PS When "cook dinner" is missing from the list, it means he wants to go out.

When my husband and I decided to get married our senior year in college we sat down separately and made a list of things that were important to us as far as family. We then shared our lists and discussed each item and how we would work out each situation so it would be beneficial to both of us and any children we would have. We have kept our lists in a notebook along with all our notes for quick reference in case one of us "forgets" what they agreed to 15 years ago. I will tell you that he "forgets" more often than I do so that notebook makes a frequent appearance at the dining room table after the kids are in bed.

...but I don't have to read his mind anymore.

Maybe you need to develop a mind of your own - do you have any independent thoughts at all?

Maybe you need to develop a mind of your own - do you have any independent thoughts at all?

Posted by: | June 27, 2008 2:28 PM

then he would divorce her because she changed. she can't win. might as well lie back and enjoy it.

to anon at 2:28

I think you are reading something into Problem Solved's post that is not there. She is not saying that she does whatever "her lord" tells her to do. She is saying that he wanted some chores done, she wasn't doing the chores because she didn't even know that he wanted these things done. Now, he tells her what he wants and she tries to accomodate - it's a compromise. If she can't accomodate, she explains why - it's communication, and not everyone is good at it from the get go. I think it's a sign that she does have a mind and a backbone that she went to counciling - that takes guts.
FWIW, I use a white board to list daily things for my DH to do, especially while he's off during the summers. Otherwise these things would certainly not just occur to him because he just doesn't think about these things the same way that I do - for example, the fridge door is closed, so he would never just think to clean out the fridge.

Posted by: Anon for this | June 27, 2008 1:25 PM

You're going to have to find another dog to kick on this one, Anon. If my exchanges with VaLGal are ruining your Wheaties, I recommend that you skip them. America. You gotta love it.

i think it all depends on the attitude that problem solved's husband has towards her. if he was getting annoyed at her for not doing the chores that he didn't tell her he wanted done and now writing down what he'd like to see done so she knows what is on his mind helps to keep him from getting all pissy then that's fine. it works for them. on the other hand, if he has this i am your lord & master and this is what you will do today attitude then i got a problem with it. but you know what? it's not my marriage.

"The key is communication."

And, apparently, an appropriately subservient attitude. Seriously, listen to yourself. The problem isn't (just) that he failed to communicate his "expectations," it is that he HAS those expectations and feels like you should fulfill them. And that you have bought into this system. You say that "things come up" and you sometimes don't complete the list, and actually seem appreciative that he will accept that you didn't finish all that he expected you to do - as long as you have a good reason. What if you called him up and said, "you know, I didn't feel like doing anything on your list today, so I didn't." What would his reaction be?

I don't mean to be overly critical, and if that type of relationship works for you, you're certainly entitled. It's just that if I tried to give my wife a list of things she should get done each day, she'd tell me to stick it where the sun doesn't shine. And frankly, I like that about her.

to DCD - which shows that your marriage is different from Problem Solver's, which is fine. It seems to me that as others have pointed out- it's all in the tone. If this contributes to harmony in their marriage and they are both happy with it, more power to 'em. Maybe it's not a bad way of working things out - at least everything is clearly spelled out. On the other hand if it's making one or both of them angry and miserable, then maybe the should reconsider - but it doesn't sound that way.

OT - do people really wash the windows that often? I HATE HATE HATE doing this and find every excuse to avoid it, though I'm not sure why. We haven't reached any My Cousin Vinny scenarios yet where we can't see across the street but maybe I'll tackle it this weekend...

perhaps that is the difference between dad style parenting & mom style parenting. if i were a sahm relying on my husband's salary i would feel that part of the deal with me staying home is to not ride my bike all day & work out in the gym but perhaps do some things around the house. if i were the one working & my husband were the sahd then i would feel like i could at least have some sort of say in what he did.

dcd, it sounds like what you're saying is that you wouldn't mind if your wife didn't do jack squat while she was home & you were working. you admire her "spirit" for telling you off if you even so much as dared to ask that she do something for you while she was home.

Wow, I would have never guessed in a million years that my one post would garner multiple responses. I don't think of my parenting style as particularly girly, I manage a staff at work and when I have a day with my kids then it's just as easy for me to write out an agenda as it would be for me not to.

My wife regularly tells me that I pack too much stuff into the day and sometimes the kids reach overload pretty quickly, but when you split each task into what it is- 3 hours up and back to a museum, take frozen pizza shell out of fridge and let kids sprinkle cheese on it while I mix flour, butter and chocolate chips, pop everything in the over at once and take the kids to... yay! the car wash which entertains them, lets the little one sack out in the car, and accomplishes a chore at the same time. It's not like you can do this every day, but a few days a week is pretty darn easy.

And sure, my wife thinks I'm nuts or that I "overbook" the kids' day. But I'd rather do something fun with the kids than do something boring with them and it's my choice, it's not like one is required to turn an interesting task into something boring- although people do it all the time.

It's like one day in the spring, I was wrangling with the kids, they were fighting over toys, I made lunch, grabbed a beach towel and we had a picnic in the backyard- 20 feet from our kitchen table. My wife's comment was that it was "too hard" to come up with these ideas, but I think it would be worse to have a dull lunch with the kids than to open the closet, grab the towel and fend off ants outside, isn't it?

I've definitely

I think those people who are critical of the Stay at Home Mother who gets a list of tasks from her husband are missing the major point to the story- her husband is paying her salary so he can ask her to do things for him. That's the deal with staying at home, you work for the family. When my wife was on paid maternity leave I was so darn tempted to make a list for her, but she was paying half the mortgage so I had to stifle it. If I was paying the total mortgage? Then I'd have no problem asking her to pick up the dry cleaning.

"Eat out and take leftovers for lunch."

Does weasel flambeau microwave well or do you need to reheat it in the oven?

Posted by: | June 27, 2008 11:04 AM

You have the cover the weasel with a paper towel in the microwave, or else, it'll "pop."

"- her husband is paying her salary so he can ask her to do things for him"

You view the stay at home parent as the employee of the work outside the home parent? bwaHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

You have the cover the weasel with a paper towel in the microwave, or else, it'll "pop."

Posted by: theoriginalmomof2 | June 27, 2008 4:33 PM

*smacks forehead* Oh- h.

It took me 2 times reading it before I 'got it' theoriginalmomof2 rocks

We took the money we could have spent on counseling wherein we would hash out a list of who was expected to do what and when -- and spent it on a cleaning lady instead. I figure I can pay for a shrink to listen to me talk about how hubby doesn't help around the house or I can use the same money to pay someone to clean my bathroom. Not exactly rocket science.

Germane Comments: 12
Troll Barf: 125

Censored Comments: Mine from yesterday!

to anon at 6:31: I applaud your common sense. some things are not worth arguing about. Just make sure the cleaners are legal and go forward. Life is too short.

I thought the USA Today article was incredibly stupid and very condescending to SAHMs.

First, my husband is out of the house 12 hours a day or more. 10 at work, 2 hours commuting. Very similar in many of my SAHM friends. Where, in my day, would I get 4 hours to "keep a hand in the workforce". The guy in the article is in a great situation if his wife works so little that he CAN spend 4 hours a day working. SOMEONE has to look after the kids: 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. For many formerly-working-now-SAHMs, they left work BECAUSE their husband worked ridiculously long hours. Those same ridiculous hours prevent them from "keeping a hand in" the work world.

Second: an unclean house. If SAHDs aren't cleaning, then either their working wives are doing it, or their houses are becoming unsanitary. I am no neat freak but I spend all day cleaning just to avoid having salmonella evolving on my kitchen floor. Kids are messy by nature, and if you don't keep on top of it, it becomes exponential. That's just how it goes. So, sorry, SAHDs, if you aren't cleaning, you're lazy.

Third, the argument that SAHMs should force their working husbands to give them a couple of nights off each week to do fun stuff on their own. SOunds good, but, in practice, see my first point. When dads are out of the house 12 hours a day, often the norm in our congested commuter culture, then where are moms going to get time off?