There are state lines. You cannot have police forces from a city 100's of miles away enforcing any laws outside of their jurisdiction. What is going to happen when conservative start looking into abortion clinics that do not inform a women of all their options, or follow other mandatory procedures. I doubt liberals will be so quick to approve of out of state enforcement. NYC should not investigate VA. Nothing can supersede this fact. If they have a problem, go to the FBI or ATF. There is a reason we have national organizations.

Nobody is cowering in Virginia about a rich New Yo'ker trying to push his personal agenda on our state citizens.Bloomberg and his cronies should clean up his own crime leading city before moving on to the world.
Virginia's crime rate is nothing compared to NY (or DC). I "Feel" much safer on this side of the bridge.

You ignore the fact that the first crime commited in Bloomberg's "investigation" was by his own investigators. They knowingly performed "straw purchases." They are not credentialed law enforcement officers in VA nor are they BATF officers with nationwide authority. As such they were not qualified to make these fraudulent purchases under the guise of an investigation. Regardless of the opinion that the targeted gun dealers had made illegal sales in the past, the investigators themselves commited fraud when making the purchases, lied on federal firearms forms and gave no indication that a reasonable person could prove at the time that the firearm being purchased was not for their own personal use. In short, they deceived the dealers purposefully in order to entrap them. Bloomberg is lucky that he is not being charged with a conspiracy to commit multiple felonies. Tell him to stay home in NYC and arrest criminals and lock them up rather than trying to deflect attention to law abiding citizens outside of his jurisdiction.

Make that "Regardless of THEIR opinion..."

While I am proud to live in Arlington, there are often times that I am embarrased to live in Virginia. This is certainly one of them. I keep waiting for the state to join the late 20th, let alone early 21st century, to no avail.

I'm glad Bloomberg stepped on some toes in this instance. It's called getting a job done. And the posters telling Bloomberg to focus on crime in his own town are completely missing the point. If you live down the river from a broken dam, you don't just sop up the water that reaches you, you go up to the hole in the dam and fix the damn thing.

This is more proof of why Mike should be the NYC mayor running for president, not Rudy.

The Bagel and The Hagel in 2008!

Ducttape: Have you ever even been to NYC? Your stereotype of NYC is at least a decade out of date. I'd take NYC's crime rate over Richmond's pretty much any day. Crime in NYC is WAY down over past decades.

Ducttape: Richmond and DC's crime rates are actually pretty similar.

So, it's ok for Bloomy to commit a crime in VA to prevent a crime in NYC? Don't think so. I hope the feds arrest him and his investigators!

Why don't you imagine, for a second that New York is not north of Virginia, but west of it. And it has a bunch of power plants belching out horrible fumes that are polluting the environment in Virginia. The Commonwealth does what it can to play nice-- talking with enforcement officials in the polluting state, talking with the owners of the plants, etc-- but no one changes anything. In the mean time, more people are being harmed, more are dying.

That is the situation in which New York finds itself. There's something that the gun shops in Virginia are doing to pollute the environment in New York. And, what they are doing is illegal.

Sure, New Yorkers are stupid enough to buy the illegal guns here in New York. And they're violent enough to use the illegal guns against each other. But, if government officials can do something else to prevent these illegal guns from being used crimes that harm New Yorkers, why not help?

I too am troubled by one state or locality conducting sting operations in another state. But it seems pretty clear that Virginia has no intention of enforcing it's own laws. I have a buddy in the gun trade in VA. He says the violations are so blatant and that everyone knows VA officials have no plans to enforce anything.

I'm not saying these stings are the correct fix. I'm just saying that Virginia has for decades allowed handguns to flow unimpeded into DC, NYC, etc., despite pleas from the residents and governments of those affected areas.

Virginia officials should be ashamed, not gloating.

Bloomberg just wants some national attention, and the sick bastard is using the tragedy at VA Tech to push his agenda. Unfortunetly, guns will always be in the hands of criminals regardless of the laws in each state. Criminals break laws, that's what they do. Sounds like Bloomberg is breaking a few of his own...wouldn't that make him just as guilty as someone obtaining a gun illegally?

If this topic was about something other than guns, this board would look a whole lot different. Say if we were talking about crack cocaine being manufactured/trafficked in Virginia, and bringing up the drugs sales and violent crime rates in NY(and VA, and other states as well). We would be applauding NY for stepping in when VA state law enforcement was sleeping on the job. Don't forget, these gun sales are ILLEGAL under Virginia law. The fact that this is a wedge issue that people will argue endlessly about makes this a story.

Is their some reason the Post can't hire a Metro columnist with a Virginia perpsective? Why does it always have to be someone representing DC or suburban Maryland?

Would it make any sense to pursue and investigate VA car dealers who sold cars to gang-bangers that were later used in hit-and-run accidents or in drive-by shootings. THIS is a better and closer analogy than polluters from WV. Also, its not illegal for people from VA to talk to polluters in WV but it is illegal for non-credentialed PI to make straw purchases in VA gun shops. Bllomy just wants to blame others for his inability to surpress crime in his paradise of a city (NOT).

If these Virginia gun dealers were violating law, then how come the BATFE did not prosecute these dealers allegedly caught on camera violating the law? Maybe because they do not have a case to prosecute?

What Fisher does not seem to understand is that Bloomberg is trying to blame other states for his city's crime problems. Most guns used in crimes in New York city are from New York state. That's a fact.

Bloomberg seems to prefer blaming out-of-state guns instead of local NYC criminals for the problems there. Lock up the criminals and the "gun violence" problem will go away. They will still have prison stabbings and rape, but better to have criminals preying on each other inside gun-free prisons versus preying on innocents in the "gun-free" zone called New York City.

Marc - The very first sentence of your story is wrong. Just because a firearm turns up at a crime scene doesn't mean it was illegally purchased. It could have been legally purchased 10 years ago and then legally sold multiple times before it was stolen in a burgulary and then used by a criminal. If a car dealer sells a car that was used by a drunk driver ten years later is he liable? Of course not. Secondly, these stings were not proof of an illegal straw purchase because they used a man and woman who would be presumed to be husband and wife. It's perfectly legal for the husband to fill out the paperwork and the wife to pull out her credit card. None of these cases could hold up in court and that proves that Bloomberg was doing this solely as a publicity stunt.

Why did the VA Tech shooter file down the serial numbers of the guns he purchased ?

I am not sure what Bloomberg and his liberal and RINO cronies were trying to prove...that you can lie on the ATF form and buy guns? Sorry Bloomy but a husband and wife buying guns together is not going to tip off a gun dealer. A better way would have been a group of young men, with some staying from the counter until a money exchange takes place. That is a huge tip off to gun dealers and will set off all the red flags. The husband and wife act (which is what Bloomey used) is not good enough, as is quite common to have a husband buy a gun and the wife who controls the purse strings pay, or vice versa. 'Straw' purchases are only that if you are buying for someone you KNOW is not legally able to buy or own a gun - IE the ex-con down the street with a drug problem.

Fairfax County officials tell the Post's Tim Craig that they are unhappy about the gun event being staged in their government building, but they said they are powerless to halt the stunt because Richmond won't let local governments ban guns in public buildings. UNQUOTE

Hmm, FFX Co. officisals are unhappy that local governments cannot ban guns in pubilc buildings? Well, over at Virginia Tech, guns are still banned in those Virginia taxpayer-funded buildings and how many people died at the hands of a criminal who seemed to have a problem obeying gun ban rules, not to mention laws against capital murder? Very smart. Since we do not live in a police state, people who choose to carry a gun for self-protection are the good guys and politicians who try to take away a person's ability to lawfully defend themselves need to be voted out of office. Ban the gun banning politicians and officials from public buildings!

If these firearms retailers erred why are not criminal charges being brought in Virginia rather than civil charges being brought in NYC?

If I had three wishes, the first would be to break Northern Virginia away from the rest of the state. The politicians in Richmond are so far behind the times. It's a shame that VA has such a backwater water perception in other parts of the US and the world.

Once again, this proves that Republicans are not about putting criminals in jail, they're about protecting special interests and coddling criminals who are part of their core constituencies. If you want safe streets, vote Democratic, or move to New York. If you want to coddle illlegal gun traffickers and have a relative killed by some drug addict, vote Republican.

Let Mayor Bloomberg send his investigators and then the VA AG can charge the mayor with a violation of VA law and extradict the punk. I am sure the gov of NY will be more than happy to drive the Mayor to VA himself.

The govt state,local and Feds needs to stay out of my business which is why we need guns. And especially out of state govs
need to stay out of my business. Now Mayor Bloomberg why dont you go harass some street vendors in NYC!

Why bother with filing down the SNs (which is useless anyway since the impression goes deeper than the human eye can see)? Because he was an idiot. He had to have known he would not survive his rampage.

Jeff wrote...
"If this topic was about something other than guns, this board would look a whole lot different. Say if we were talking about crack cocaine being manufactured/trafficked in Virginia, and bringing up the drugs sales and violent crime rates in NY(and VA, and other states as well). We would be applauding NY for stepping in when VA state law enforcement was sleeping on the job."

Sorry Jeff, I'd have the exact same opinion that I have now. Trying to stop crime by focusing on the tool (be it drugs or guns or airplanes) is a waste of time. You stop crime by focusing on the CRIMINALS. NYC needs to get control if it's own criminal element (and not add to it by conducting illegal vigilante operations far outside it's jurisdiction.

Watching NYC (and Marc Fisher) try to foist NYC crime control failures off on Virginia is pretty rich.

Mr. Fisher,

There are a LOT of federal laws on the books underwhich these dealers are regulated. These laws are enforced by the BATFE. When a state agency from another state attempts to enforce these laws they are operating outside of their jurisdiction. Also, the "sting" that Bloomberg sent his people on was a BLATANT violation of federal law, in attempting to make straw purchases. Why is it that we, the Commonwealth, should allow a MAYOR from another CITY to ignore federal law in persecuting our businesses? If those dealers are doing something illegal, it seems to me that a communication with the BATFE would have been more appropriate, and would have respected the sovereignty of all involved parties. Bloomberg is a cowboy with little regard for the laws outside of his own domain.

I agree with earlier post - can't we get a columnist who lives in Virginia and is not a party line liberal Dem like Fisher?

Bloomerg did not send police officers - he sent private detectives to try to set up dealers for CIVIL lawsuits. Tke BATF and VA State Police looked at Bloomies evidence and said no laws were broken. However Bloomberg is using well funded govt. lawyers to legally harrass Virginia gun dealers with nuisance law suits. This is about MONEY and POWER. Will the media ever defend the right of a gun dealer to conduct his/her business - doubtful - Bloomberg picked his targets well - this is about curring media attention for his presidential bid. The media is bvery predicatable - no wonder more and more people are leaving the LAMESTREAM media behind.

Am I missing something here - "New York police recovered 22 guns between 1994 and 2002" And then - "In March 2006, New York sent a man and woman into the store to confirm its suspicion that the store was making illegal gun sales."

So the guns were recovered between 1994 and 2002 (all 22 of them) but the investigation kicked off in 2006? Boy, that's some crack police work there!

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."

-- Cesare, Marquis of Beccaria

Bloomberg needs to listen to eminent thinkers such as the Marquis of Beccaria instead of trying to push his I-hate-guns-so-no-one-else-can-have-them-except-policemen-and-soldiers agenda.

If he doesn't like Italian thinkers, well, you have the Founding Fathers such as Thomas Jefferson as reliable guides in the gun control debates.

Here is one of my favorite quotes from TJ.

"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks."

I could quote President Jefferson more, but do not want to overwhelm the weaker minded readers of this comment board.

If anyone is looking for attention, it's "Attorney General" McDonnell. I put the title in quotes because it seems like the only real job an AG does in this state is to pander while waiting for the chance to run for Governor.

I am ashamed to be a Virginian.

VA-licensed private investigators demonstrate that it is easy to buy guns in VA in contravention of VA state laws.

VA officials complain that VA law enforcement officers, who should be enforcing VA gun laws but are not, were not involved in the investigations.

The underlying question: why are VA law enforcement officers not enforcing VA laws in the first place? Is there a relationship between Virginia's sworn officers and the dealers who are the worst offenders? Start with a statistical comparison of where officers purchase their own firearms. quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Marc,

Correction needed in your post: According to the linked article, NYC has been sending private investigators, not policemen.

This is, of course, equivalent to the private action of the Minutemen to enforce federal immigration law. It is vigilante law enforcement.

Because in the scenerio that the NYC investigators acted out there was no crime that the dealers could see. The investigators posed as husband/wife fraudulently. as others have noted it is not illegal for a husband to buy a gun and have his info run while the wife pays for it. The dealers cannot read minds enough to know that the woman was not the guy's wife. Also, LEOs can buy firearms almost anywhere. They don't need to favor any particular dealer.

Marc... no comparison there. The minutemen are not committing felonies by watching and reporting illegal migrants entiering the US. Bloomy's investigators were committing felonies by defrauding gun dealers while conducting straw purchases. The dealer is only guilty if he knowingly sold to someone who was obviously buying a handgun for another person. This is not the case in Bloomy's sting.

Virginia's laws are for Virginia to enforce. Virginia does not send investigators to New York to do undercover stings when New Yorkers "violate" Virginia statutes.

Straw purchases are a tricky legal tactic that sometimes skirts entrapment, especially when the agents are being paid by a third party that is seeking a "positive" outcome. The legal circumstance of the buyer is of a law-abiding person who is pretending to be a felon who is pretending to be a law-abiding person. In actual fact, the buyer has a clean record and is a legal purchaser of the firearm.

I don't condone straw sales to disqualified persons, especially the mentally incompetent, but it must be pointed out that in this regard Virginia is doing a much better job than New York, according to the BATF. In the last ten years Virginia has added the names of over 80,000 mentally incompetent persons to the NICS database of persons forbidden to buy a gun, more than any other state.

Maybe Virginia should hire some private investigators to run "stings" of New York State gun stores, pretending to be former New York mental patients who are still eligible to buy guns because New York does such an appalling job of providing these names to the federal database.

There is nothing to defend here, Virginia. Noone is talking about preventing the legal sale and acquisition of guns, for which I am a stauch supporter. We are talking about the enforcement of current laws in which a crime has been committed. somebody here said "Criminals break laws, that's what they do." as an excuse not to enforce the law. How would you feel if a man snatched your daughter or your car in front of a cop and he didn't do anything about it, instead saying "criminals break laws, that's what they do" as an excuse?

Crimes have been committed, punish the offenders. This has nothing to do with guns. When you defend criminals out of a knee-jerk reaction to perceived threats to gun ownership, you look like a rube. Before you call me an anti-gun liberal, you should know I support the repeal of the gun ban in DC. But I also support punishing those caught in possession of illegal weapons and those who sell them. They besmirch the reputation of responsible gun owners like ourselves.

Hileman---GOOD try but I'm from NY.

"Northern born, Southern bred.
Carry a switchblade (380) and act like a gentleman"

The interesting subtext to this is that Mayor Bloomberg is evidently considering a third party/indepdent run for the White House and may spend as much as $1 billion of his personal fortune in the attempt. (About 20% of his net worth.)

He would never get the support of the NRA or gun rights factions anyhow, but the vast majority of Americans favor stronger gun control laws than those of Virginia. Frankly, Bloomberg's actions make good sense from a political perspective--in NY and nationally.

Hileman---GOOD try but I'm from NY.

"Northern born, Southern bred.
Carry a switchblade (380) and act like a gentleman"

sorry, didn't sign last post

I would have no problem if the New York State Police had gone to the Virginia State Police and said, "Look, we know that straw purchases are a low priority for you, but they're a high priority for us. So we will pay for the police overtime and prosecution if the Virginia State Police will supply the undercover officers. And if you say, "No." then we'll let it go." But that's not what happened; Bloomberg was more interested in publicity than results and it backfired on him.

As others have pointed out, just because a weapon recovered in NYC is traced back to a Virginia gun store does not mean that it was sold illegally or through a "straw sale". It could just as easily have been stolen.

The first law of economics says that "Demand creates its own supply." As long as New Yorkers want guns, they're going to get 'em. Even if Virginia stopped selling guns tomorrow, guns from Virginia would continue to show up in New York for the next hundred years.

The first law of economics says that "Demand creates its own supply." As long as New Yorkers want guns, they're going to get 'em. Even if Virginia stopped selling guns tomorrow, guns from Virginia would continue to show up in New York for the next hundred years."

We're not talking about legal law-abiding gun owners here. We're talking about criminals. So your argument boils down to criminals are going to get guns, so we shouldn't even try to stop them? Criminals are going to try and rob and steal and murder, so we shouldn't try and stop them?

Again, stop thinking of this as 'Dirty New York is trying to take my gun away' and you'll see, crimes have been committed, punish the criminal.

I dont think many of us here would argue with you on that DCAustinite.

Punish the offenders, in this case, the investigators who committed fraud and felony straw purchases to illegally buy gun from dealers in VA who had no way of knowing that they were being defrauded.

Everyone: Please read more carefully. NYC hired VA-licensed private investigators to do this work in VA.

I believe Mayor Bloomburg did the same in PA, and now his "private investigators" are facing Federal felony charges for carrying out straw purchases. The ATF had already contacted NYC to stop this practice.

Micke Licht.

That still doesnt make it legal Mike. VA PIs are not licensed LEOS and do not have any more authority to conduct a straw purchase than an average citizen. Iven under the guise of an investigation. As their title suggests, they are "private" investigators, not Law Enforcement Officers.

Virginia's an embarrassment to civilization and certainly the Union.

Let's kick their sorry ass back out. Let them be the third world nation they so want.

Mike Licht,

Sorry I butchered your name. Mis-typing faster than usual. LOL

My point is that if New York handed out longer prison sentences to violent felons, fewer of them would be out in society trying to buy illegal guns.

Good idea "Virginia should secede"... then we could arrest these investigatore guys as invaders and treat em like the criminals they are.

Bloomberg has no problem disarming the common man, but I wonder how he would respond to the removal of his paid armed security detail in NYC? God forbid he live like the rest of us. Most of us can't afford full-time armed bodyguards. For us, our gun IS our bodyguard. It's the last line of defense against all the dangerous realities of this world.

New York violated proper legal restrictions on jurisdiction and may have carried out entrapment. They should be called on this.

Virginia might and probably does have a few gun-dealers who are lax with their enforcement of the law. Virginia should be held accountable and asked to work harder.

The NRA lobby auctioneers at the public buildings are nothing but grandstanding idiots and I hope that that event is properly picketed.

Let's take a serious look at this situation. New York - Some of the toughest gun laws - one of the highest crime rates - no death penalty. D.C. Some of the toughest gun laws - one of the highest crime rates - no death penalty. Maryland tough gun laws - high crime rate in the DC metro area - no death penalty. Virginia relaxed gun laws - relativly low crime rate - has death penalty. Anybody see a connection here? Guns aren't the problem, people are and liberals. By the way I own no guns, I do live in Virginia however.

Bluemeanies,
Get your facts straight. VCDL is not an NRA organization.

Also I'd be very surprised if there is a picket since you all seem to be afraid of law-abiding citizens with guns. On the other hand if you all do show up to picket then you must not be too concerned or afraid of law-abiding citizens who go about armed...so what's the issue?

This is the reason we spend so much time talking in this country and not doing. WHO CARES about state lines...oh people with egos who want to say "Not on my side of the line." All people in positions of power and authority need to finally accept that they got back at the bully in third grade who picked on them and start doing their jobs. And if they can get a little help from somewhere else, take it, say thank you and shut up. If you can't enforce your laws, then let someone else do it. Otherwise, Virginia needs to say thank you for showing them that their citizens are making them look bad, not the police or who crossed lines. The citizens who break the law and sell the illegal guns are the ones that Virginia officials should be going after.

Wow, virginia is safer? Let's compare richmond to new york:

http://encarta.msn.com/media_701500272/Crime_Rates_by_State_in_the_United_States.html

more likely to be murdered or raped in Virginia. True, you're more likely to be robbed in New York, but you'll live through it.

Virginia's "relaxed gun laws" are in fact comatose - the ones on the books are not enforced. The VA officers sworn to uphold those laws were not doing so, in violation of their oaths as well as well as the law. Bloomberg had to hire VA-licensed private investigators to obtain proof. This proof may be thrown out of court. What this action has done: raised the level of scrutiny on VA law enforcement officers to a level where they can no longer avoid enforcing VA firearms law, and put VA gun dealers on notice that those laws will be now be enforced. Virginia officials can pretend outrage in public; in private they must -- and should -- feel shame.

As a proud Virginian I say thank you Marc for drawing attention to this shameful blight on the Commonwealth's reputation.

Mybe they aren't NRA but they sure have the same cause. That just indicates that even the NRA wouldn't be that stupid.

Lets see, a gun case where the law is on the side of the gun dealers and if looked at dispassionately anti-gun advocates should acknowlodge this fact. So what should the gun lobby do? I know, lets sell a semi-automatic pistol (a type of gun that really has no recreational use) in an auction (which even if you have proper safeguards in place strikes lay-people as a type of sale where safeguards are easier to circumvent). That is criminally stupid for the event organisers. It is just the type of idiot thing to do to discourage dis-passionate thinking. Glad they outed themselves as that frickin stupid.

And, I'm actually kind of upset that it is legal for one person to have the security check run and another person to pay. If there was ever a loophole to close in the gun laws that should be it. They either both get checked or no gun. It may be legal now but there really is no logically justification for it to be if we are going to have background checks.

Those commenters who are arguing that the gun dealers were reasonably assuming that the woman in the sting was just the "wife with the purse strings" don't have the facts right.

In fact, it was the woman who filled out the background check paperwork AND paid for the gun. This after the man had done all the talking with the dealer and selected the gun to be purchased. In fact, the undercover PIs apparently took pains to make it look like they did not know each other well.

See the report cited at http://tinyurl.com/2e8rre.

To me, the facts reported about the sting make clear that the dealer should have know that this was a straw purchase. In fact, there were apparently dealers that refused to make a sale fearing that it was a straw purchase.

I think the debate should be about whether it is appropriate for NYC officials to set up these stings outside of NYC. That the VA dealers were in the wrong seems quite clear based on the reported facts.

It's really not surprising that Fisher would use this as another opportunity to attack Virginia. He did it a few weeks ago with his unscientific attack on VT admission standards. Maybe you stop reporting on things involving this side of the river is you loathe it so much. It's a shame because he actually does a good job at reporting DC/MD goings on.

"Is their some reason the Post can't hire a Metro columnist with a Virginia perpsective? Why does it always have to be someone representing DC or suburban Maryland?"

Sorry, but I believe James J. Kilpatrick is dead.

Do you have any factual information on the topic you are trying to talk about?

"I know, lets sell a semi-automatic pistol (a type of gun that really has no recreational use) in an auction (which even if you have proper safeguards in place strikes lay-people as a type of sale where safeguards are easier to circumvent)."

Do you even know what a semi-automatic pistol is? I use one for recreational purposes all the time. In fact that is ALL mine has ever been used for.

Also, your assumption that the auction gives a way around the laws demonstrates that you haven't done one single bit of your own background research as to the event, how it was being managed, and what it's actual purpose is.

"That is criminally stupid for the event organisers."

Criminally stupid is writing a op-ed bit that praises the comission of multiple felony violations under the guise of "enforcing the law". If you can't see the irony then there's no point to further discussion.

Do you have any factual information on the topic you are trying to talk about?

"I know, lets sell a semi-automatic pistol (a type of gun that really has no recreational use) in an auction (which even if you have proper safeguards in place strikes lay-people as a type of sale where safeguards are easier to circumvent)."

Do you even know what a semi-automatic pistol is? I use one for recreational purposes all the time. In fact that is ALL mine has ever been used for.

Also, your assumption that the auction gives a way around the laws demonstrates that you haven't done one single bit of your own background research as to the event, how it was being managed, and what it's actual purpose is.

"That is criminally stupid for the event organisers."

Criminally stupid is writing a op-ed bit that praises the comission of multiple felony violations under the guise of "enforcing the law". If you can't see the irony then there's no point to further discussion.

I'll bet all those mugged, robbed, stabbed or shot in the last year in NY wish they had the RIGHT to defend themselves with other than their hands or purse.

Oh, Laura. Stop with the fake stats already. Richmond and New Orleans have just as bad if not worse crime rates than DC, year after year. And Richmond and NO both have very lenient gun laws. And, of course, VA supplies most of the guns for DC, making DC gun laws ineffective.

And NYC has considerably lower crime stats for most violent crimes than either Richmond or New Orleans.

I'm undecided on gun control. But I have to call shenanigans on your statement that DC and NYC are violent and unsafe, compared to similar (as similar as can be found) areas in VA.

Ducttape: I appreciate the response but you failed to address the substance of my post, which poked gaping holes in your statement that NYC and DC are less safe than similar (as similar as can be found) areas in Virginia. Would you care to address the actual safety issue, or do you stand by your original post?

Marc, I can't wait to send VA state troopers into DC and arrest murderers and corrupt school officials and bring them to trial in VA. Your city was corrupt under Barry, now it is simply totally inefficient to the point of corruption. Anyone with any money sends their kids to private school like yourself. Let VA come and patrol your streets in DC and let VA state troopers come and stand tall in your schools and let's see if DC likes it. Your meddling into VA's affairs stinks.

Marc,
Your column this morning is so full of holes and misinformation it's difficult to know where to start, so I will start from the beginning.
You state that: "he (Bloomberg) authorized his police officers to conduct undercover operations designed to nail those Virginia retailers." Then why weren't New York City Police, or New York State Police conducting these "stings"? He used Private Investigators.

You also mention that: "Did Virginia thank New York for investigations that could help make the streets safer in both places?"
How could VA authorities thank Bloomberg for his efforts when they didn't know about them? These operations were conducted without coordination with or knowledge of the VA State Police, or the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms.

You also ask: "Did Virginia sheepishly admit that its own enforcement efforts were lacking and use the embarrassing moment to redouble its efforts?" What enforcement efforts were needed?
No laws were broken. In fact, it took a court order from the ATF to get Bloomberg to hand over the videotape "evidence". The ATF then refused to prosecute ANY of the gun stores named in Bloomberg's first suit because no laws had been broken. Bloomberg is fishing for something here and was probably surprised that he couldn't find anything.

Here are the facts that you obviously didn't verify when you wrote this article. This is becoming a disturbing trend with the Washington Post.

What VA's new legislation does is prevent rogue and private "sting" operations like those conducted by New York City's Mayor Bloomberg from bypassing the VA State Police. What Bloomberg did was to hire a private detective service to consduct "straw purchases" in gunstores where illegal guns found in NYC had been traced to. The problem with this strategy is that, aside from being a felony in VA, the gunstores don't have control of the firearm once it leaves the store and the purchaser has taken possession of it. So, one has to ask how effective this strategy is, and the answer is obvious: Not very.

Bloomberg is a known anti-gun politician. He is suing, in federal court, small mom and pop stores with a broad and loose interpretation of New York City's Public Nuissance laws. These are all CIVIL suits, not criminal suits.
One has to ask, why civil suits and not criminal suits. The answer again is simple, there is no evidence to support even a primea facie case.

Bloomberg coordinate with ANY local, state, or federal police forces (like the VA State Police, or the ATF). It took a court order from the BATF for him to turn over the "evidence" he collected in these "stings". Once the ATF reviewed the "evidence" the ATF refused to prosecute ANY of the dealers named in Bloomberg's first lawsuit because no law had been broken.

Now, Bloomberg on the other hand has attempted to conduct straw purchases (purchases where someone knowingly purchases a firearm for someone who cannot legally own one). At the very least, he's guilty of conspiracy to commit an illegal act. Bloomberg and his private investigators have committed a felony for every one of those form 4473s (the ATF form required for all gun purchases conducted by dealers) that were filled out. What is also not general knowledge is that Bloomberg and his cohorts also compromised several ATF investigations by conducting these "stings".

One might ask, if there is no evidence, no criminal charges, what's his real motive? Again, that's simple: What Bloomberg does with the dealers who acquiesce to his civil litigation machine, is this: He appoints a "special master" for three years who videotapes every transaction and has access to all of the confidential information on that form 4473 and provides it to NYC. Then, this "special master" has the power to levy fines if he deems the agreement has been violated in any size shape or form, and the 3 year clock resets. Of the original 4 that were sued in VA, one has acquiesced (Cole's in South Boston, VA due to fear of being driven out of business by sky high legal costs), one has gone out of business (rather than fight it or acquiese), and two are fighting him (which is the focus of the gun giveaway on Thursday).

If Bloomie was really serious about going after illegal guns, instead of small private businesses, he wouldn't skirt the criminal justice system and break laws himself. He would cooperate with the appropriate State and Federal authorities who have the power and legal requirements to go after criminals. That is the goal of the legislation recently passed and signed by McCain. Bloomberg's goal is to simply drive small dealers out of business with the threat of a backbreaking civil lawsuit, nothing more.

Mr. Fisher, I invite you come to the gun giveaway on Thursday. We will have cake, chips, soda, and good fellowship.

Here are the details:
The meeting starts at 8PM, and is open to the public and media
Mason District Governmental Center
6507 Columbia Pike
Annandale, VA 22003
For directions, call 703-256-8035

Mapquest:
http://tinyurl.com/29x23c

First off, New York City does NOT have a high crime rate. Richmond's is traditionally higher.

I applaud Bloomberg for doing this. What an embarassment for Virgnia.

Having spent a few years in Toronto, I can vouch for the higher quality of life in a country that has responsible gun ownership and strict gun laws. There are fewer gunshot deaths in Canada than in Washington, DC.

Stalin, Mao, Mussolini, and Hilter all agree: Gun Control Works!

> Here is one of my favorite quotes from TJ.

"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks."

Great, let's ban football, just because TJ says so. If one of the founding fathers says something it must be maintained immutably in perpetuity regardless of changing circumstances. Just to upset Marc, baseball should also be proscribed

What a shame. As a gun-owner and member of the NRA, I must say it's a shame that the gun lobby has to make hay out of every issue.

Bloomberg did what he felt was right and legal. So far the majority of Virginians agree. It's only the gun lobby that raises a fuss.

I'm sure there will be a huge turnout on Thursday. Honest people deserve to own guns, responsible people should have fun shooting guns...its just a shame we have to have idiots selling and regulating them.

Another good TJ quote:

"If Bloomie was really serious about going after illegal guns....He would cooperate with the appropriate State and Federal authorities who have the power and legal requirements to go after criminals."

Like our Attorney General who has gone thru hell & high-water to quash this effort?

And you don't think Bloomberg is serious about this issue? I suppose hiring VA investigators and footing the tactical and no legal, bills for this is just childsplay from another silly billionare.

I like the idea of a post commentator with a "Virginia" perspective, I just don't know where they will find someone that irrational...

Sigh, I'm from Virginia, here is my Virginia perspective. If Virginia isn't willing to enforce it's own laws then it becomes a problem for other nearby areas. I wish Virginia would do a better job of that.

Gun supporters appear to have blinders on and do not even listen to their OWN arguments. Every time an attempt is made to regulate guns (say keep them away from insane people) The pro gun people come out and say 'we already have laws, they just need enforcing' and then when someone tries to enforce it. They say scream bloody murder. I'm sorry, if you want to play video games or watch baseball games or whatever I agree, we should all mind our own business. But guns are everyones business, like it or not.

Honestly, I'm not against gun ownership, but we are talking about illegal gun sales here. I for one refuse to be a paranoid-scared all the time - clutching my gun - wit less moron about this issue.

Use your brain, it's right next to your mouth.

btw, if mom and pop don't like getting sued, then they should have opened a diner.

If you sell guns, then it is your moral obligation to know that the buyer of the gun is not reckless or malicious. No amount of hand wringing will absolve you of that responsibility, the consequences are too grave. If you are not willing to ensure this, than you have no business selling guns. If it is too costly an enterprise to enforce it properly then the economy of selling guns is not a profitable one, and must be left as charity. Mom and Pop or otherwise, if they can't make money without compromising good morals, then they should look elsewhere. Otherwise you are saying that making money supersedes your own values.

It is not as though there aren't other ways of supporting yourself.

State Soveriegnty is one of the cornerstone's of our republic. I grew up in Richmond. Richmond has a higher murder rate but overall crime does not even attempt to approach NY. New Yorkers don't even report muggings for the most part but see it as a part of NY living.

If it is so easy to get guns in VA, why isn't the murder rate in VA much higher than it is compared to DC, MD, and NYC? If Bloomberg is going to take anything from VA it should be our criminal justice system to use in his city. But, because he is afraid to put criminals away he wants to blame NYC's problems on VA.

To those posters who defend Bloomberg's anti-gun efforts as regulation - how would you like it if your wealthy neighbors decided to regulate your behavior by bringing nuisance CIVIL lawsuits against you?

It is one thing to gather evidence and report it to law enforcement authorities -it is quite another to create incidents for the purpose of bringing CIVIL litigation whose primary purpose is to extort and intimidate business owners. Why didn't Bloomberg give his evidence to BATF and let them try to presecute? Isn't that the purpose of the BATF?

Virginia citizens should pay Bloomberg back with his own medicine. Every person whose gun purchase records are obtained by Bllomberg should sue him individualy in Virginia Courts for violately their constitutional right to privacy.

I don't see how NYC and Bloomberg can logically argue that this doesn't stomp all over VA's right to self-govern. Let's reverse the situation and change the "illegal substance" -- let's say that Richmond has a crack cocaine problem and it's all coming in through NYC's ports and being run down I-95. Does anyone really believe that Bloomberg (let alone Gov. Spitzer) would sit on the sidelines and let the Mayor of Richmond send undercover private investigators to illegally buy large quantities of drugs in NYC?

I didn't think so.

Hey Greg... So the next time a car dealer sells a car to someone who has a drunk driving record then I am going to sue their pants off when that drunk hits or kills someone. Afterall, the dealer should have known that that guy was a drunk and would use the car to kill.

Oh I forgot... the car dealer has no way to tell if the guy is a drunk. Just like the gun dealers have no way of telling if someone is buying a gun for someone else.

Are YOU a mindreader or something?

p.s. Greg... I dont clutch my gun to my chest. In fact i rarely carry it but i will defend any law abiding citizen's right to do so if they wish...

illegal guns hate soccer

Marc, two things:

1 Stay in DC where you belong!

2 Stick to writing stories about buying shoe laces. You are a hack of the worst sort and an embarrassment.

For the ones that keep comparing Richmond to New York. Richmond is only one small city of 190,000 in a metro area of almost 1 million people in a state of 7 million. Its rather a statistical stretch to compare its crime rate to New York City. As a Native Richmonder living in Fairfax, sometimes I feel like I am in the PROM (Peoples Republic Of Maryland). Thats why I read not only the post, but also the Richmond Times Dispatch and Norfolk Virginian Pilot (its called balance). There is another part of Virginia and despite the liberal elitists of the north they are decent and hard workng people.

Marc Fisher - you are an idiot as always. Please move to NY where you belong. Leave us alone. We surely do NOT want your stupid ideas here. If New York wanted to help, they could offer assistance. Not publicly try to embarass another state and not another governor. I think the officers should be charged with the crimes and the mayor of New York charged with conspiracy to commit a felony. Stay out of our state.

Wow Greg
"btw, if mom and pop don't like getting sued, then they should have opened a diner.
If you sell guns, then it is your moral obligation to know that the buyer of the gun is not reckless or malicious."

By your logic every automobile dealer should have a similar responsibility, especially given how high the death and destruction rates are for automobiles as compared to almost anything else!

Use your brain Greg, it's right next to your mouth.

The people trying to claim NYC is safer than Richmond are hiding behind crime RATES, which are naturally spread out, and therefore lower, among a high-population group. NYC averages a little over one murder per square mile. Does that tidbit make you want to move there? Would you be willing to gamble that you would NOT be the years murder victim in your neighborhood?

A second comment: the NYC stings were outrageous because they were more designed to make a media splash than further law enforcement. That is why the VA State Police and the BATFE both condemned NYC for jeopardizing preexisting law enforcement operations that were still undercover.

What the retards defending VA's position on this issues fail to grasp is that Bloomberg is a F*CKING REPUBLICAN TOO!!!!

Goddam idiots.

2 weeks ago everyone was appalled at the shootings in VA. Tech, and now you got loonies in VA raffling away guns for fun. Waiting for another maniac depressive individual to win the raffle and get the guns.

Then good old boys are really mad about this Mark. Damn Yankee. Let's just let them leave the union.

"The people trying to claim NYC is safer than Richmond are hiding behind crime RATES, which are naturally spread out, and therefore lower, among a high-population group. NYC averages a little over one murder per square mile. Does that tidbit make you want to move there? Would you be willing to gamble that you would NOT be the years murder victim in your neighborhood?

Posted by: K-Romulus | May 15, 2007 04:24 PM"

Imbecile, the rate is based on population per 100, 1000, 10000, etc. not by square mile.

YEEEEE-HAAAWWWWW

Violent crime rate in NYC is: 6.73 per 1,000 population
Violent crime rate in Richmond is: 12.4 per 1,000 population.

as always there are inbreds everywhere, especially in goddam rural Virginia.

And for you computer literate Republican gun owners from VA who seemed appalled at the crime rate in NY, please do us a favor and GOOGLE the crime rate for VA and NY and get back to us.

I might as well be in f*cking Iraq instead of going to that inbred state of VA (or outside the VA-DC metro area.

Greg

"If you sell guns, then it is your moral obligation to know that the buyer of the gun is not reckless or malicious."

So by that logic, every bartender in the country needs to know if his/her clients are recovering alcoholics or have DUI convictions...

761-091,

Sigh... it's idiots like yourself that make me wonder how the USA is going to survive.
In your quote:
"What the retards defending VA's position on this issues fail to grasp is that Bloomberg is a F*CKING REPUBLICAN TOO!!!!"

How did this get to be about Republicans and Republicans In Name Only (RINO)? Bloomberg broke the law here in VA, pure and simple. He disrupted several ATF and VA State Police investigations, by being an idiot.

You sum up you and yours rather well: "Goddam idiots."

Do some research, get a clue, and then come back when you are ready to be civil.

"Hey Greg... So the next time a car dealer sells a car to someone who has a drunk driving record then I am going to sue their pants off when that drunk hits or kills someone. Afterall, the dealer should have known that that guy was a drunk and would use the car to kill."

If the guy sold it to him and he was visibly drunk, smelled of alcohol and couldn't stand up, yeah, you could sue the car dealership. That's the only way your analogy works because the gun dealers knew it was a straw sale. That's like knowing the guy your giving the keys to is currently drunk, not a drunkard.

Get the facts back in focus. VA gun laws have been broken by VA gun dealers, and the VA officers sworn to uphold those laws have failed to do so. The Commonwealth is pumping large quantities of illegally-purchased pistols to other places where they are resold for the greatest profit and used in crimes, including but not limited to murder.

When sworn law officers do not enforce particular laws, it is usually presumed that the officers and law-breakers involved have an overly-cozy relationship. Given that presumption, it would have been absurd for NYC to work with VA law enforcement on this issue without independently establishing the facts. Thanks to VA-licensed private investigators, the facts have been established beyond dispute. What remains is for VA law officers to enforce the VA gun laws, and for VA public integrity officials to investigate the relationship, if any, between law-breaking gun dealers and any VA law enforcement officials who may have turned a blind eye to the illegal gun sales.

Bob McDonnell looks like Governor material to me. And he will have Bloomie to thank. How it that for "The Cold Splash of Reality"

What TJ, you a christian-conservative republican, go fearing, machine gun carrying redneck?

Did I strike a nerve with you?

GOOD!

Too bad you weren't at Tech. Hopefully some looney wins those guns and goes on a rampage IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOODMaybe then you will realize Va's Gun Laws belong in the 18th century.

I don't think Prince Charles is going to invade the US any time soon!

TJ - read the constitution.

Here, 'cos your obviously slow.

Amendment II
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Obviously the loonies buying guns in VA HAVE NO INTENTION OF ORGANIZING A MILITIA.

GET IT THROUGH YOUR THICK SKULL!!!!

VA gun laws are non-existant.

These hillbillies in VA lack a certain amount of intelligence, culture and class. Please stay on your side of the Potomac.

VA is just so damn backwards. Conservative cultureless pit only concerned about guns and anti-gay agenda. NOVA needs to secede from those Richmond/RoVa mongruls immediately to save theirselves.

VA is just so damn backwards. Conservative cultureless pit only concerned about guns and anti-gay agenda. NOVA needs to secede from those Richmond/RoVa mongruls immediately to save theirselves.

Bloomberg wanted press? seriously? Maybe I missed the first round of stories, but I don't think this turned into news until the Commonwealth's AG came up with a plan to make sure the law continued unenforced.

VCDL was founded in Northern Virginia. Many people in Northern Virginia support gun rights. Gov. Kaine claims to support gun rights. As does Dem. Senator Jim Webb. Seems odd The Wash Post is trying to make this a Dem vs. Republican issues. Of course Kiane is taking heat from anti-gunners becuase he SIGNED the bill that slapped Bloomberg down - I guess he is trying to save face. Former Dem. Gov. Mark Warner never weasled on gun issues - looks like Kaine is no Warner.

Note this gun raffle is for folks who voluntarily participate (I didn't enter myself) but it is kinda of a freedom to bear arms - freedom to assemble type deal baby. I supose Gov. Kaine and his weak kneed sisters are OK with such rights in theory but not in practice.

If you don't like guns - don't own one and don't enter the raffle. This gun raffle idea was great - got Bloomberg, Marc Fisher and The Washington Post all upset.

New York City's lawsuit is against 15 gun dealers in five states (not only in Virginia), and these were apparently "targeted because of the large number of guns that have been traced back to them following crimes committed in New York City.
Based only on the incomplete data available to the City, more than 500 crime guns recovered by the New York City Police Department have been traced to these 15 gun dealers between 1994 and 2001."

"The mayors' coalition http://www.mayorsagainstillegalguns.org/html/home/home.shtml (currently 210 mayors from more than 40 states) will begin airing television ads on network political talk shows Sunday to push for the repeal of a law that prevents the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives from sharing gun trace information with local law enforcement.

(Boston Mayor) Menino and Police Commissioner Edward F. Davis say the law makes it more difficult for police to apprehend criminals who use guns to kill and maim people. The website of the NRA says the group supports the legislation because it protects the privacy of gun owners, whose weapons could be traced even when they are not used in crimes. Menino said it makes sense that mayors are taking on the gun lobby. "We get the calls at night, we visit the families, we offer our condolences, and, in some instances, our eulogies," he said. "We're on the front lines . . . of homicides and shootings in America . . . and that's why we're outraged." from http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2007/04/19/mayors_urge_bush_to_tighten_gun_control_laws/

Check out also http://www.protectpolice.org/ a project of Mayors Against Illegal Guns, a bi-partisan coalition of more than 160 mayors in more than 40 states.
Now, this doesn't sound like your average bleeding heart liberal group, does it?

in peace...

"If this topic was about something other than guns, this board would look a whole lot different."

Indeed. If Bloomberg sent a bunch of private goons down here to arrest newspaper publishers and journalists because someone bought a few copies of the WaPo and used them for kindling to commit arson in NYC, everyone here (even the gun owners) would be screaming about the First Amendment..

TO: TonyR

President Thomas Jefferson, as far as I can tell, was not in favor of banning ball sports. Please enlighten us as to your source.

The Anti-freedom crowd, however, are clearly trying to infringe on the natural right of the people to keep and bear arms. Just because you don't like guns does not give you an excuse to ban them. Such attempts are unconstitutional.

If you cannot uphold the US Constitution, then either try to change it (as allowed in the Constitution), or shut your stupid piehole.

How come there is no huge groundswell for repealing the 2nd Amendment? The US repealed the 18th amendment with the 21st amendment. Want to go for a XXVIII Amendment, USC to repeal II Amendment, USC? Go ahead, punk. Make my day.

Raw Fisher is more like Half Baked.

Maybe Virginia should sue Bloomberg everytime a New York City resident is caught transporting or selling drugs, after all, why can't New York enforce its drug laws and lock these people up?

By prosecuting and incarcerating NYC felons, NYC is forcing Virginia to pay for all of these administration of justice services which NYC should be conducting.

Virginia needs to be reimbursed for this public nuisance of NYC-exported criminals.

Some of you NYC bashing folks can't seem to refute the fact that Richmond has a higher crime rate than NYC. You can slice and dice all you want. That fact remains. So stop with the NYC bashing already. At this point it's making you look unhinged.

And it's not just Richmond. Norfolk, VA, has something like five times the murder rate of NYC.

For the person saying NYC has more murder per square mile..... uh, NYC has tons more people per square mile. This isn't rocket science, folks. Crime stats are done by population figures.

For the person saying it's not fair to compare Richmond to NYC, I ask why not? Both are cities. If anything, traditionally crime rates have been significantly higher the larger the city. So if anything you'd expect NYC's to be much, much higher. But it isn't. Richmond's is. And Norfolk's is. Go to areaconnect.com for comparisons. And I'm betting if I tried I'd find even more in VA that are higher.

I am not a native Virginian, however I have lived here for over twenty years and I have found that the people here are overwhelmingly honest, hard-working, law- abiding citizens, and I am proud to be counted in their numbers. Calling us backwater hillbillies and other names may make you feel better but don't think your middle school taunts will cause us to lose any sleep. Instead of expending your energy hurling emotionally driven insults, maybe you should re-direct your anger by taking a hard look at why you believe that evil people can be made law-abiding by taking away any physical means of perpretrating crime. Perhaps that is the big difference between New Yorkers and Virginians. We believe that people are basically good and responsible and can be trusted to do the right thing. We don't need to be under the thumb of a "nanny state" that exists primarily to protect us from ourselves. If we want people to behave in society, they must be taught as children. Thinking that a law to prevent someone who is determined to commit a crime by making it illegal to get the tool he needs will somehow change him into a good citizen is naive at best and fatally dangerous at worst.

Hey 761-091, Why dont you shut the **** up you brain dead homo! It's brain dead arse wipes like you that make our side of the debate look like a bunch of lunatic fudge packing gun-banners. We will never get them to give up their guns with your ignorant bleating! GET OFF OUR SIDE

Typical NYC attitude, trying to tell everyone else in the country how to live and how to write their laws. When that doesn't work, just start calling them rednecks, hicks, and other names.

Oh yeah, and according to the column, we're all supposed to thank NYC for enlighting us.

"We will never get them to give up their guns with your ignorant bleating!"

But I thought the anti self-defence crowd just wanted "common sense" gun laws.

Sorry for the mispelling, should have been "defense".

Bloomberg and his cronies knowingly violated any number of federal and state laws. Lying on forms, straw purchases, etc.
All of them ought to be prosecuted for multiple felonies. You know that 'the common folk' would be. Why not Bloomberg and company??? Why hasn't the ATF conducted a raid on his place???

Shouldn't VA be able to sue Bloomberg if a NY person comits a murder with a gun bought in VA since it's obivious that the NY city school system and all NY city social systems failed this individual? In fact wouldn't it also be NYPD's fault for not stopping the crime?

All of you defending Bloomingidiot are defending a felon. I hope you are real proud of yourselves.

Isn't the first step to making VA act rationally just electing people who see the gritty truth about guns? About the primary between Margi Vanderhye and Rip Sullivan for the 34th House District: Margi told RK that she is "a supporter of the Second Amendment." In McLean? After the Virginia Tech horror? Give me a break!

CFan wrote - TO: TonyR

President Thomas Jefferson, as far as I can tell, was not in favor of banning ball sports. Please enlighten us as to your source.

CFan also wrote -

"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks."

Hey if TJ didn't like something so lets ban it, that's my interpretation.

Raw Fisher ought to be turned over and basted on the other side. While I know it is almost unheard of for journalists and liberal columnists to open their mind and look at facts, Fisher could give it a try once, couldn't he?

The biggest message he provides is that the ends justify the means. Most gun grabbers believe that. Hence junk science, stretches of truth and outright lies abound in their publications. Fisher says that Virginians ought to be grateful for Bloomberg for sending non-law-enforcement people out to break Virginia's laws. Anything to get rid of guns, eh?

FIsher describes 22 guns over an 8-yr period as a "whole bunch." Even if NYC's crime rate is down, methinks that 8 cases there in NYC are statistically insignificant. Less than 3 per year. Whole bunch. Right.

Gotta hand it to Fisher though. His mastership of Politically Correct think/speech is great. Enough so he is able to get other PC afficianados to piteously cry about their embarrassment for living in Virginia. Why don't they just move to NYC? That's a city that cares. It welcomes strangers with open arms and armed muggers. The Sullivan law in New York is one of the most unconstitutional of all gun laws. It should make the PC types feel so good. Just like VT, they should feel safer, though there are very few people with the connections/elitism to qualify for a concealed carry permit. So, public crimes are almost certainly going to leave witnesses with 2 options. Hide good, and take careful notes.

I also think Fisher is bitter about the DC Appellate Court's decision in Parker vs. DC. Doggone it. That law has to be near the top in the number of deaths it has caused, and it just ain't right to get rid of it.

Fisher should try some reading, if for just a few minutes he can try to open his mind. He ought to read the preamble and the entire Bill of Rights. He should read the Declaration of Independence. He should spend some time with the Federalist Papers. Were he to do so, its possible he'd see the truth behind the BOR.

The Founding Fathers believed strongly that all people had unalienable rights. Among them are freedom of speech, which I'm sure Fisher would really get on his high horse, should it be "attacked." Also is included the 2nd. Just like the 1st, it says that an unalienable right may not be infringed by the Federal government.(I get a little confused here over state infringement.) That has a very simple meaning: The government may not infringe the unalienable right to keep and bear arms. All the Federal control laws, and likely the state laws as well are pure and simply unconstitutional. All of them.

There is just a sneaking chance that some Virginia gun dealers have a similar understanding of our Constitutiona. Bloomberg who obviously feels no compunctions about treason, also has no compunctions about breaking Virginia laws, or interfering with ongoing federal gun investigations.

One thing more. The American Academy of Science and the CDC did exhaustive studies of all those gun control laws. They were unable to find even one instance where any of the 20K+ laws had prevented a crime. Not one. Talk about useless effort and a waste of tax dollars, all spent on unconstitutional laws. Somehow the grabbers, and apparently Fisher maintain the totally unrealistic faith that the next law might work. They have blinders on. Those blinders prevent them from seeing that it is criminals -- and the occasional psychotic -- who break gun laws -- and policies. Policies just make them laugh. Criminals have no regard for law. Period. They wouldn't be criminals if they did. So all those useless laws have only one result -- law and policy abiding gun owners obey them -- and now and then a lot of people die because of it. The gun grabbers have an awful lot of blood on their hands. Methinks Fisher wears maybe more than his share.

New York City has been usurping the rights of their citizens for decades. The government there deserves everything it has coming. Self-Preservation is the First Law of Nature. The same laws that ALL American government is based upon.
http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALaw/LawsofNature.html

Notice how that the mob really came into being and flourished after the Sullivan Act? Honestly examine the history of 'gun control'. After EVERY instance of it crime has risen. In areas with the least amount of 'gun control' crime is at the lowest rates.

Somebody brought up Jefferson earlier -

"The people cannot be all, & always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independent 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in a century & a half for each state. What country before ever existed a century & half without a rebellion? & what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon & pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it's natural manure. Our Convention has been too much impressed by the insurrection of Massachusetts: and in the spur of the moment they are setting up a kite to keep the hen-yard in order. I hope in God this article will be rectified before the new constitution is accepted."

- Thomas Jefferson, Nov. 13, 1787 letter to William S. Smith.
http://gunshowonthenet.com/2ALEGAL/Precedent/JeffersonToSmith11131787.html

I'm sure Jefferson would be real PROUD of his ccountry today, huh?

It is good to see the anti-gun-owner crowd angry over my crime-per-square mile comment. It means that I hit upon a nerve. Having lived in both NYC and VA, I can assure you that I understand population density and how that can skew the true crime picture. When 20,000 people live within one square mile of your house, that fact alone can be used to dilute the true level of local crime by turning it into a discussion about RATES. I repeat, are you willing to gamble that you will not be the random person in your neighborhood of X number of people to be murdered today?

Yet more TJ ....

What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it's natural manure

He expected a few lives every two hundred years. Yeah he'd be thrilled the way things turned out.

Yet more TJ ....

What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. It is it's natural manure

He expected a few lives every two hundred years. Yeah he'd be thrilled the way things turned out.

Interesting how apostrophe usage has chnged since colonial times.

K-Romulus:

First, I'm not anti-gun owner. I am undecided about handgun control.

But what I can't stand are misleading statistics, like yours. The murder rate is per population, not per mile.

And, yes, I am quite confident that I won't be shot in my neighborhood in DC.

Statistically you have a better chance of being shot in Richmond or Norfolk than you do in NYC.

"Statistically you have a better chance of being shot in Richmond or Norfolk than you do in NYC. "

That's only if you count getting shot by a criminal, not the NYPD.

The major problem I have with Bloomberg's tactics is that he set up gun dealers with the husband and wife ruse and then accuses them of engaging in 'straw purchases.'

This is a shady tactic. Most dealers would sell a gun in such a situation because common sense tells you these people are legit.

Note that no gun dealer in VA has been charged with a crime. What Bloomberg did was shady BS and was a publicity stunt to gain press for his presidential run. He knew a compliant anti-gun press would report the facts on a selective basis, too.

"Virginia's crime rate is nothing compared to NY (or DC). I "Feel" much safer on this side of the bridge."

Sorry, ducctape, but you're way off the mark on this one. New York is the safest big city in the US and one of the safest big cities in the world, thanks to Guliani's clean up. Richmond, VA is another matter. I would stand on a corner in most NY neighborhoods and count my money. Try that in Richmond.

Gun fans like to delude themselves that lax gun laws and a "right to carry" makes a place safer. Fact: many of the most dangerous US big cities - such as Miami, Phoenix, Houston, New Orleans - are in states with liberal gun laws.