How does one get a copy of the open letter that Dr. Ellen Dye sent to the recovery community? thank you

How does one get a copy of the open letter that Dr. Ellen Dye sent to the recovery community? thank you

Thank you for the thoughtful article on the Midtown AA group. As a woman with 26-plus years in recovery with AA as my foundation, it saddens me to read what you wrote but I can believe it.

I was so very fortunate to fall into an AA community in Philadelphia that was the ideal--good kind loving folks who advised and did not try to take over lives. They practiced what they preached and took fragile women like me under their wings.

I was warned by the older women to "keep your skirt down, Honey..that's not what you're here for...there's plenty of time for that." But I was also fortunate that my anxiety gave me some good radar for predatory types.

AA is a collection of human beings who are admittedly flawed. My experience over the years is that any group of humans has pretty much the same percentage of idiots, lechers, pedantics, angels, pseudo-heroes, etc. I would venture to say that I could find pretty similar percentages in a meeting of a town council, an editorial board :), a Police Athletic League, etc.

AA is about spiritual principles for living a good life. Those principles are in writing but there's more oral tradition that not, and that's where the variations occur. That's also the goodness, by the way.

For me, the fact that this is being made public is a very good thing. The group should dissolve. That's not AA....that's power run amok, just another addictive drug, in my experience.

My name is Kathleen and I am an alcoholic, grateful to my loving and protective AA family---and to the idiots in AA who taught me to discern.

Kathleen Houston
Philadelphia, PA

When is the local Washington Area Intergroup Association going to address this issue?

Thank you Marc Fisher.

I was a member of AA for 16 years and left due to the abuse, psychological, sexual and physical, and I am one of many leaving. What occurs in Mid-Town occurs across the country, including Clancy's group. I know because I have lived in 5 states and witnessed the behavior and can name the groups. It is as unconscionable to me that AA does not accept responsibilty for their internal problems in much the way another religious organization has not, Catholic Church. The founder of AA was never anonymous, speaking across the country, using his last name, while promoting the disease concept. Telling those who are suffering from a biological/physical problem, they suffer from a, "spiritual malady," is fraud.

I was a member of AA for 16 years and left due to the abuse, psychological, sexual and physical, and I am one of many leaving. What occurs in Mid-Town occurs across the country, including Clancy's group. I know because I have lived in 5 states and witnessed the behavior and can name the groups. It is as unconscionable to me that AA does not accept responsibilty for their internal problems in much the way another religious organization has not, Catholic Church. The founder of AA was never anonymous, speaking across the country, using his last name, while promoting the disease concept. Telling those who are suffering from a biological/physical problem, they suffer from a, "spiritual malady," is fraud.

Why are you posting AA member's last names in this article?

It's pretty simple, folks:

If they were forcing people to do anything to be a member of their group, they were not, are not, and never will be an AA group.

And if they have done or are doing anything illegal, they are accountable to society just as anyone else.

I can claim that my condo is Temple Beth-El, but that doesn't make it so.

And it doesn't make me immune from any criminal activity I may commit there.

End of story.

I have been sober over 20 years in AA and never, not once, has anyone made me do anything. Period.

It's against the Traditions of AA, and that would be obvious to anyone with even the most cursory reading of those Traditions.

Why don't psychologists, treatment centers, et al bring in REAL AA members to teach their clients about the AA Traditions?

Why don't they ask some simple questions about what was going on (before, during and after) at the meetings they're sending their clients to?

Why don't they themselves (since they are recovery "professionals") regularly attend open AA meetings and meet regularly with the local AA Cooperation with the Professional Community Committee to make sure they know what AA was really all about?

Instead, AA seems to have become a dumping ground for anyone, alcoholic or not, that society, families and hospitals don't know how to deal with.

"Give them an attendance card and send them to AA!"

Doesn't seem to matter whether their alcoholic or not.

Alcoholics Anonymous is for desperate alcoholics who are beyond treatment.

It's not day camp for people with problems who happened to be around a bottle or a bag when they got caught.

If treatment centers and hospitals are now going to scrutinize more closely where they send their clients, especially their younger clients--I say "GREAT!"

As a long-time AA member I am happy to help any alcoholic that wants the help I have to offer.

But we can't be all things to all people.

And when AA members don't stand up for their Traditions; don't inform new members that, although they are welcome to open AA meetings, AA is really for desperate alcoholics; don't stick our singleness of purpose --One Alcoholic Helping Another Alcoholic--all kinds of shenanigans sneak in the side door.

While I am a stickler for Traditions, I think AA should publicly distance itself from this group.

I have been told by a couple misguided and ignorant sponsors that taking psychotropic medication was wrong. I fired both sponsors rather quickly. You DON'T do that. A sponsor is not qualified to give medical advice nor run someone's life. They are an adviser to take you through the steps and sobriety. When a solution is required to a problem, the answer (from a sponsor) should usually come from the Big Book or "Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions."

The Big Book even states "we do not disregard human health measures." This is not AA's position to be anti-medication and these sponsors ought to seriously reconsider the type of AA they are preaching REGARDLESS of their personal views. Grow up people!

It is refreshing to see a former member of the group ADMIT that they did wrong while they were with this group. If the entire group evaluates their conduct and changes their behavior, this group might have a chance. MIGHT.

Why are they trying to punish the midtown group as a whole. Why not just punish those individuals? There are people who are doing the right thing and want to stay sober in that group. If a black person robs a white person are you going to blame all black people? Come on now.....

As a parent of a young woman who spent many years in the Midtown group, I can attest to the truth of the allegations made by many of the former members. My daughter almost never came around without other Midtown members. She was discouraged from spending time with her family. She was pressured to spend the requisite $1000 per summer for the share in the beach house. She gave all her time to the group, attending meetings daily, cleaning peoples houses, living in group homes, etc., etc. This is all not to say that the group does not have any good qualities. I know it has helped young people stay sober. But at the very high price of emotional, psychological, and sexual abuse.

why would you print peoples last names as alcoholics, also this is a regurgetated story come up with something original, poor poor Kathy and her Pot smoking husband

I have attended AA in the DC area since 2003. I began by attending young peoples groups in Northern Virginia and have been to quite a few midtown meeting and dances. Midtown is a cult and every young AA in this area member knows that. In Midtown you dont have sponsee's, they call them "pigeons". They force you to have a sponsor that is a member of Midtown and that is where the madness begins. They make you run errands and treat you like a slave. I heard a lot of rumors and asked members of Midtown about them, mainly the medication restrictions, and yes it is very true. They also have resrictions about being out past midnight, not being allowed to enter a business thats serves alcohol and many other rigid rules that are completely againt AA's traditions and steps simply because there are no rules in AA, there are only suggestions and you take them or you dont, it doesnt matter as long as you stay sober. But when you are ostricized and punished for not following suggestions then a line has definately been crossed. Then you hear about the beach house scandal, which I have known about for years, not to mention the underage sex, a ditator like leader, vunerable young people with addiction and mental health issues, unqualified people making medical decisions, and you got a full fledged cult. Everyone in Midtown knows this is true, as well as many ex Midtown members. Its a cult camofloged as AA. Midtowns leader isnt talking because he is guilty as sin. Im glad the hammer is coming down on these people, I hope criminal charges occur. People should come forward within Midtown and end this insanity. One more thing, no one said anything about the 13th step, which happens to be mandatory in Midtown. Any one who denys what I have said is following orders from you know who or has probably had sex with a someone half their age.

I think that this story was very informative. I was in that group for three years and I would like to say here and now, the things that Midtown is being accused of are very true. Infact, there is even more than that! For instance, did you know that Mike Q's cell phone bill is paid for by the people he sponsers? AA's tradition 7 speaks of being self-supporting. I would think that would not only apply to the meetings themselves, but the people who attend them! Sleeping with underage kids when you are sixty-something is wrong no matter how you spin it. Yes... there are some good people in Midtown who have simply been mislead and brainwashed. There are those who I am more than proud to call my friends. Unfortunatly, the "leaders" have such a hold on those people that it's not as simple as just seperating the "good from the bad". I encourage everyone who has experience to come forward with what they know! The way I look at it, you have a choice. You can sit back and say nothing or you can take a stand and try to stop the things you've seen and/or were done to you from happening to someone else. As for the medication issue, regardless of what the Midtown folk say, you ARE told to get off your meds! What if you don't? I was told that I was not REALLY sober if I didn't stop taking them. I was told that I needed "one clear voice" and that if I continued to see my therapist, I was just trying to get answers that went against what my sponser may have "given me direction" to do! People from that group have already died because of their sponser's direction! Examples? I won't mention names, but here it goes: What about the girl with the eating disorder? Wasn't she told that her problem was alcoholisim? Yes she has that, but she also needed treatment for anorexia! She helped me so much when I was new to the program. Where is she now? She died about two years ago as a result of untreated illnesses. What about the guy two summers ago who killed himself after being directed by his Midtown sponser to get off his anti-depressants?!?! How can these things get over looked? Everyone has a right to their opinion,but if you don't believe my experiences or others who have come forward, go online and google a cult checklist. See how it adds up. Be honest when you answer the questions and see what results you get at the end of the list.

One last thing... I think that it is awesome that comments can be left regarding this article! But regardless I think that we should all respond to eachother like ladies and gentlemen. We are adults here and attacking others and their personal lives (which, odds are, you/I/we know nothing about) is just plain childish and unclassy. Love and Tolerance is our code, remember?

This article is a shame - a shame that the press, who AA has befriended since our beginnings in 1935, has used full names AND pictures of AA members. A shame that so many have distorted the true purpose of what AA has done for so many suffering alcoholics. I have been a member of AA for a long time and I have been in Midtown and other AA groups around the world. I found more sex happening in small towns than i have ever encountered in DC AA. The members of Midtown are sober, recovering alcoholics whose primary purpose is to stay sober and help other alcoholics to achieve sobriety. I WANTED to be in a beach house - that's where I learned how to take care of a house, so that when I went home and vacuumed and did dishes, my mother was shocked and impressed. I had never lifted a finger before that - so I went from being a taker to being available to her - the first amends I was able to make. I didn't do laundry until I got sober - I didn't take care of myself at all and I learned PHYSICAL sobriety, which to me encompasses taking care of myself, when I got sober in the Midtown group. My sponsor has helped me in every area of my life, by showing me how to use the principles of the 12 steps in my life. "practice these principles in all our affairs". I still talk to my sponsor, I still attend meetings, I still have friends (both in and out of AA), I am very involved with my family, I have a career, I have a very full life. I would not have it any other way and I do NOT believe any of the allegations, as I know the people alleging these terrible things. I pray that you all find peace in your Higher Power and perhaps you will learn to take an inventory of YOURSELF. God Bless.

I was in the midtown group for over a year and all of this and more is true. Ironically, when I left the group my sponsor told me I "didn't have what it takes to be sober", then he left the group a year later when it was decided that only those sponsored directly or indirectly by Mike Q himself were allowed to vote in the Group Conscience (business meetings for AA groups). This group is a cult, anyone who says differently either doesn't know them or is brainwashed.

Someone should ask the Church of the Pilgrims what the capacity of their fellowship hall really is, i.e. an actual number per the fire marshal. In addition they might want to ask what that hall feels like in the middle of August with 350+ people in it and no air conditioning. Then they could check the crime stats on muggings and car break ins within a 5 block radius of that church.

Thank you A Anonymous, for your comments. I have been sober now since 1986 and completely second the notion that AA can be both a "dumping ground" and a place where rebellious young people, who are by no measure alcohlics, wind up then their parents and the courts try to fix them. It is particularly those young people who can fall prey to the mental and sexual abuse of a cultlike situation such as Midtown.

As for those who question the publishing of names and photos, the whole concept of AA is that you don't "out" other folks, as in the statement, "What you see here, what you say here, let it stay here." However, that in no way prevents individuals from publicly proclaiming their own alcoholism and telling the world they got sober through AA.

I only wish Bill W. and Doctor Bob were still alive--they would have the moral authority to step in and stop this despicable behavior that's done in the AA name.

From a media point of view, your article, Mr. Fisher, showed a much better attempt at trying to get both sides in the story than the Newsweek article did. You included quotes from Midtown's statement of purpose (which, by the way, I read last fall so it was not issued this spring as a response to any one thing) and you managed to speak to a church representative that said she had not found any reason to disallow group members to meet there. Thank you for that. I know it is hard to get the other side of the story when people are uncomfortable with talking to you.

What I don't understand is why you included Mike Q's last name and a photo of him when, clearly, anonymity is a big issue here. Why do you grant Kristen her anonymity but not someone else? It's the same double standard many newspapers engage in when they print the names of alleged rapists but not the names of those who are accusing them. That's somewhat of a controversy among editors and journalists. Was there a discussion that took place before the Post decided to break full anonymity in this article?

Lastly, I am glad that there is a forum here where people can air out their feelings in a healthy manner. There are certainly some very hurt people here, but their experience seems to speaking louder than the majority. As in any large group of people--especially young people--you're bound to get some jerks. A sponsor does not dictate someone's life, he or she gives suggestions. It's up to the sponsee or pigeon (I've heard the term pigeon used in every group around the country I've been to) to decide whether or not to take that direction. A sponsor does not, as the article says, look over one's sobriety. Rather, a sponsor is someone who guides someone else through the 12 Steps. There are bad sponsors everywhere. There are great sponsor's everywhere. As someone who's been sober and in AA, it's my responsibility to find the right sponsor for me. In my case, that means someone who has showed me how to live sober, held me accountable for showing up for my own life--rather than running and hiding--and guided me through the steps. It has not always been easy or comfortable, but the plain hard facts are that my life has flourished since I've been sober, my old friends and family are VERY happy I'm not drinking anymore and grateful to have me back in their life. I have new friends who love me and would do anything within their means to help me if I asked.

I am a member of Midtown and honestly have NO idea where these allegations are coming from--it has not been my experience. If anything like that was going on before, it certainly hasn't been for the past few years. I am grateful I've found a solution for my old way of life and a group of loving people who will share it with me.

Shame on all the psychaitrists and other professionals referring clients to a faith-healing, sometimes cultish "church" where they MUST become powerless over the "disease that talks to them", and meetings are usually opened and closed with prayers...."Our father who...". A powerlessness that expands into all areas of one's life requiring constant direction from whatever god, and "acceptance" of everything. Many harmed ex-members post in several online groups.

Shame on all the psychaitrists and other professionals referring clients to a faith-healing, sometimes cultish "church" where they become must powerless over a "disease that talks to them", and meetings are usually opened and closed with prayers...."Our father who...". A powerlessness that expands into all areas of one's life requiring constant direction from whatever god, and "acceptance" of everything. Many harmed ex-members post in several online groups.

Marc Fisher, you have completely disrespected the AA community by going against AA traditions.

Marc Fisher, you have completely disrespected the AA community by going against AA traditions.

What the readers should know is that over the last few years countless attempts and requests for help were made to the local Intergroup (WAIA) office and GSO to address issues with Midtown internally. These countless attempts were made in an effort to avoid public controversy due to it being an "inside" issue. These requests for help came from parents, the local AA community, as well as ex-midtown members. For years these allegations have prevailed but no one has been willing to address it or talk about it much less take action. Particularly WAIA, who's board of directors have been composed of more Midtown members than non-Midtown members until recently. Creating a public controversy has been the absolute LAST avenue taken to make sure that the newcomers and young members of this group are aware of the potential harms which can happen to them by being members. Is it unprecedented in AA? Maybe, does that make it wrong to use any avenue to protect the vulnerable newcomer from rape and the "illegal" advice to stop taking their anti-psychotic medication which is an everyday occurance in this group. Is not having the public controversy of AA more important than saving even 1 life if it can be saved? No, I do not believe so. AA will survive but hopefully Midtown, as it is today, will not. We would not be here posting comments and reading front page articles about this cult had the local WAIA taken any steps to remove this group from the Where and When. Will they do it now is the question??? It is yet to be seen.

It's not up to journalists to respect the AA traditions, it's up to AA members. Midtown's predatory culture is getting what's theirs -- going after girls in their first year of sobriety is depicable, preying on the weak and bad karma, not to mention putting the girls' sobriety @ risk. The rationales their members use are actually much more malignant, ridiculous and selfish than Mr. Fisher portrayed. What goes around comes around.

It's not up to journalists to respect the AA traditions, it's up to AA members. Midtown's predatory culture is getting what's theirs -- going after girls in their first year of sobriety is depicable, preying on the weak and bad karma, not to mention putting the girls' sobriety @ risk. The rationales their members use are actually much more malignant, ridiculous and selfish than Mr. Fisher portrayed. What goes around comes around.

I compliment Marc Fisher on his excellent article. I have no personal knowledge of Midtown but, for years, have heard whispers of Mike Q. Although I am now 80 years old I am not totally senile and I got a very clear sense of what Mike Q was doing. My contact group was outside the beltway and had no partcular contact with Midtown except attendees of daytime meetings (a lot of them young, 20 to 30 years, I would guess) might have split their meeting times with Midtown. These kids were great and I see no reason for young women to be hit upon by old predatory men when they are in a very painful and vulnerable time of getting off alcohol and turning their lives around (truly!!). The account is most disturbing and frankly I find the portrait of this aging immature man frightening.

Thinking about how one changes this I belive that one of the principles of our fellowship in finding a sponsor is to find someone of the SAME SEX as a guide. This a very sound "rule of thumb" and should be followed. The idea of pairing a past middle age man with a teen teen age girl is obviously not based on help with drinking. The average middle aged man does not want to spend a lot of time with a teen age girl. Their interests generally do not coincide unless you put sex into the pot. If sex is the object this is not a healthy realtionship. Mike Q fits the picture of an immature man seeking such relationships which can lead to heartache for teenage girls. And in this case, it also appears he is dangerous because of improper advice (family relations, doctore relations, drugs, etc. He should be asked to step down and go elsewhere.

Unfortunately the internal governing bodies (providing advice and finances to some extent from NY) have not been well served by the voluntary service of serious individuals. By this I mean that service on the internal governing bodies is not exactly exciting and I don't think many people volunteer for this prosaic bit of AA. It is hard to figure out whether more active service on such bodies can control the behavior of one person of a meeting who is out of control and seems to have taken on a cult like personna.

I encourage the stance of some of the churches who have decided, upon hearing of the activities of this group, to ask AA, in this case Midtown, to find another venue. Lack of a place of meeting should cool some of this activity.

I can't say enough good things for the overall reach and teachings and support of most AA meetings and the fellowship of other suffering alcoholics who are just outstanding. It is a shame to have a blot put on the good work of AA by such an unhealthy and sick man.

Dorothy Morris Mudd (I don't mind going public)

The journalists who write these articles have little knowledge of AA, and get their information from the small group of people who are taking out their own personal frustrations on the Midtown group.

I am 27 and from Richmond, got sober when I was 18 yrs old through AA groups that followed the traditions. We learned to have fun through helping others, not having sex with eachother.

I have been to these Midtown meetings and they are masked very well as a good AA meeting. In the end, they are not following traditions and if it ain't AA it won't stay. Midtown will fall when the dirty old man Mike Q. passes. AA will live on forever because Bill and Dr. Bob made sure to emphasize the primary purpose of helping others, especially through service work, not servicing an old man.

I compliment Marc Fisher on his excellent article. I have no personal knowledge of Midtown but, for years, have heard whispers of Mike Q. Although I am now 80 years old I am not totally senile and I got a very clear sense of what Mike Q was doing. My contact group was outside the beltway and had no partcular contact with Midtown except attendees of daytime meetings (a lot of them young, 20 to 30 years, I would guess)and might have split their meeting times with Midtown. These kids were great and I see no reason for young women to be hit upon by old predatory men when they are in a very painful and vulnerable time of getting off alcohol and turning their lives around (truly!!). The account is most disturbing and frankly I find the portrait of this aging immature man frightening.

Thinking about how one changes this I belive that one of the principles of our fellowship in finding a sponsor is to find someone of the SAME SEX as a guide. This a very sound "rule of thumb" and should be followed. The idea of pairing a past middle age man with a teen teen age girl is obviously not based on help with drinking. The average middle aged man does not want to spend a lot of time with a teen age girl. Their interests generally do not coincide unless you put sex into the pot. If sex is the object this is not a healthy realtionship. Mike Q fits the picture of an immature man seeking such relationships which can lead to heartache for teenage girls. And in this case, it also appears he is dangerous because of improper advice (family relations, doctore relations, drugs, etc. He should be asked to step down and go elsewhere.

Unfortunately the internal governing bodies (providing advice and finances to some extent from NY) have not been well served by the voluntary service of serious individuals. By this I mean that service on the internal governing bodies is not exactly exciting and I don't think many people volunteer for this prosaic bit of AA. It is hard to figure out whether more active service on such bodies can control the behavior of one person of a meeting who is out of control and seems to have taken on a cult like personna.

I encourage the stance of some of the churches who have decided, upon hearing of the activities of this group, to ask AA, in this case Midtown, to find another venue. Lack of a place of meeting should cool some of this activity.

I can't say enough good things for the overall reach and teachings and support of most AA meetings and the fellowship of other suffering alcoholics who are just outstanding. It is a shame to have a blot put on the good work of AA by such an unhealthy and sick man.

Dorothy Morris Mudd (I don't mind going public)

Now that we know the problem let's deal with the solution. Killing the whole group and labeling everyone associated with Midtown as pedophiles and predators is not solving anything. Every group has its issues. Deal with it.

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Everyone who is accusing Midtown of false allucations, and accusing the Midtown group of not following the traditions by going to the newspaper and press are breaking the traditions themselves.
Here the the 12 traditions of AA, read carefully the 10th and 11th tradition-

1. Our common welfare should come first; personal recovery depends upon A.A. unity.

2. For our group purpose there is but one ultimate authority - a loving God as He may express Himself in our group conscience. Our leaders are but trusted servants; they do not govern.

3. The only requirement for A.A. membership is a desire to stop drinking.

4. Each group should be autonomous except in matters affecting other groups or A.A. as a whole.

5. Each group has but one primary purpose-to carry its message to the alcoholic who still suffers.

6. An A.A. group ought never endorse, finance
or lend the A.A. name to any related facility or outside enterprise, lest problems of money, property and prestige divert us from our primary purpose.

7. Every A.A. group ought to be fully self-supporting, declining outside contributions.

8. Alcoholics Anonymous should remain forever nonprofessional, but our service centers may employ special workers.

9. A.A., as such, ought never be organized; but we may create service boards or committees directly responsible to those they serve.

10. Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the A.A. name ought never be drawn into public controversy.

11. Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion; we need always maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio and films.

12. Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our traditions, ever reminding us to place principles before personalities.

I have been a member of the Midtown group for 3 1/2 years, I have seen hundreds of people being helped daily, the ratio of people being helped to the people that portay themselves as victims and dont want help is VERY large.

If people claim that the group will fall soon you are very wrong, the group has been around for decades and has helped thousands of people, why would it fall right now? The people in Midtown are very loyal and will go to any length to help another alcoholic, the ors that are being started should not be in the press, if you dont like a certain AA group, or AA sponser, or dont like how a group is run, goto another meeting untill you find one that you do like, there are over 100,000.

With that being said i hope that everyone looks at both sides of the story and not just one. I love all people, even the ones that are saying such things about Midtown, and i wish the best for them and for there lives, Midtown has saved my life and i hope that everyone can find somehting that will save there live.

To "A trusted servant": Please wake up and stop drinking the kook-aid. Read the 4th Tradition of AA.: With respect to its own affairs, each A.A. group should be responsible to no other authority than its own conscience. But when its plans concern the welfare of neighboring groups also, those groups ought to be consulted. And no group, regional committee, or individual should ever take any action that might greatly affect A.A. as a whole without conferring with the Trustees of the General Service Board. On such issues our common welfare is paramount.

Midtown's "customs" are affecting neighboring groups. Medical professionals have reported they will stop sending people to AA and public entities (churches) have kicked out Midtown meetings, clearly damaging the name of AA in the local public sector, again affecting neighboring groups. I know no one consulted my homegroup before engaging in malicious acts? Various people have already consulted the trustees. Call GSO and ask how many calls they've gotten from people complaining about Mike and his followers. They have gotten the "this is a local issue response". This group is a cancer and like a cancer must be removed before the body is destroyed. What more do you need? It's on the cover of the Washington Post, front and center, first and last names. If you, your friends, or Q himself has issues stop hiding behind the guise of anonymity. Sue the hell out of the post for libel, make it a closed hearing and protect your anonymity (if that is really the case), and get some credibility for your group. The Washington Post doesn't get behind a story, let alone put it on the front page if they can't back it up, legally or otherwise. Wake up, get yourself to real AA.

To "A trusted servant": Please wake up and stop drinking the kook-aid. Read the 4th Tradition of AA.: With respect to its own affairs, each A.A. group should be responsible to no other authority than its own conscience. But when its plans concern the welfare of neighboring groups also, those groups ought to be consulted. And no group, regional committee, or individual should ever take any action that might greatly affect A.A. as a whole without conferring with the Trustees of the General Service Board. On such issues our common welfare is paramount.

Midtown's "customs" ARE affecting neighboring groups. Medical professionals have reported they will stop sending people to AA, and public entities (churches) have kicked out Midtown meetings, CLEARLY damaging the name of AA in the local public sector, again affecting neighboring groups. I know no one consulted my homegroup before engaging in malicious acts? Various people have already consulted the trustees. Call GSO and ask how many calls they've gotten from people complaining about Mike and his followers. They have gotten the "this is a local issue response". This group is a cancer and like a cancer must be removed before the body is destroyed. What more do you need? It's on the cover of the Washington Post, front and center, first and last names. If you, your friends, or Q himself has issues stop hiding behind the guise of anonymity. Sue the hell out of the post for libel, make it a closed hearing and protect your anonymity (if that is really the case), and get some credibility for your group. The Washington Post doesn't get behind a story, let alone put it on the front page if they can't back it up, legally or otherwise. Wake up, get yourself to real AA.

How many people are complaining? 50, 100?
How many people stayed sober?

People don't go to AA because they are perfect citizens. Everybody who starts in AA has problems of one kind or another. They go to AA to get sober and develop a network of sober people.

If they have more then 1 problem they should get the second problem addressed some where else. AA is for helping you to stay sober.

AA has become a place where mental health providers to send people with out insurance to get free group counseling.

Please don't think this is just an AA issue. This is an issue of parents not doing there job and raising the children properly. This is an escape for Mental health providers seeing there customers insurance run out.

AA doesn't help you get dates, AA doesn't correct life's problems; AA is to help you stay sober.

In every group of people across the planet you will get good people, bad people and strange people. OK Q may not have followed AA traditions, I get it!

In the article it stated no criminal charges were brought for any of these events. Mental health workers are rethinking dumping there customers in AA when the insurance runs out. Parents are looking closer at there kids behavior. People are more aware of predatory behavior. People are talking about things that are not perfect and trying to improve on them. And AA is still helps people stay sober.

To all those doubters about the practices of Midtown against young women,I am here to attest they are all true. I have,and continue to,sponsor women who have fallen vitim to their practices and it's appaling.Thank God they got away and were able to assimilate into other AA groups in DC.The pain,confusion,anxiety,and rejection they felt when they did and DIDN'T go along with their practices is overwhelming. The theory that those speaking out have something against the Midtown group is ridiculous-this just serves as a rationalization of their sick,sick practices.Something needs to be done to stop them and their dangerous,damaging practices in which they twist a beautiful program to suit their own needs.Shame on you. Bill Wilson would be appaled.

Great May Newsweek and even better Sunday Post. Anybody in recovery even loosely associated with AA in Northwest DC has credible knowledge of the routine practices Marc Fisher described; those that Mike Q. has systematically and deliberately perpetrated for at least the fifteen years I've been around. Anybody from Midtown or neighboring Groups who denies anything that was printed in the Post is likely stupid or drunk. Sorry, we can't hide behind the Traditions on this one...I am grateful to Marc Fisher. He's done what we (AA members) could not do for ourselves.
I can understand blogs from some Midtown members feeling smeared in this and don't want to be painted with the Q- tip, but it's illuminating to me that nobody has stepped forward to defend Mike Quiones..(I would never take anyone's inventory..not me, never) can't be because he's such a great guy and he's been practicing these principles in all his affairs. But seriously, it's probably because he no longer is "misunderstood"...a defense we've been hearing for years.
Thousands of young people have acheived sobriety at Midtown. Once this cancer (Mike Q. and his Lieutenants) has been removed, think of how many more will get sober at Midtown and actually feel good about themselves,and have a shot at happiness with freedom from predators and cults, and ultimately, freedom from the bondage of addiction.

Yeah, I was in Midtown for a while and it is deserving of condemnation and all the attributations of "cult" status. It is a dangerous and abusive society, which uses AA as cover, to brainwash. It does sound nuts, but after I was discharged from hospital and inpatient treatment center I unknowingly got involved with the group. Thankfully I could see that the advice and structure were antithetical to all I had been taught about AA in treatment. However, the lure of orgy parties and more friends and connections then I had ever had were enticing. They appear young, perfessional, kind and well-groomed (ha, inside joke). I can see how teens can think that the Midtown/ Mike Q or Clany groups are the answer. Warning: Walk away b/c the ostracizing down the road is very hard to manage...you will waste a lot of your recovering life worring about status in the cult and away from rebuiling relationships with real friends and family. Do not drink the kool aid on the Midtown fellowship or Clany's groups!

Thank you Kathleen H. for your fine comments and thank you to all the Midtown people who have spoke out on this blog.

As a So Cal AA member with 20 yrs. I was dismayed at Clancy Imislund's mild response to this. A person of his stature should be roundly condemning what is going on and listening to more victims before summing up the problem as "clingy people." WTF?!?

Granted, AA's tradition of non-governance is important and well thought out. But when a problem of this magnitude and duration comes up, powerful old-timers should forcefully oppose it, IMO.

Narcissistic crackpots do sometimes go off the deep end when coming in contact with some of the group dynamics of AA. On rare occasions they head off in a cultic direction. Charles Diedrich and Synanon comes to mind.

From the AA perspective this case is actually worse: Synanon very quickly ceased to look anything like AA and didn't attempt to retain any similarities. It became an out and out cult pretty quickly. Midtown is worse because it has gone on for years and retains the trappings and sanction of AA, thus tarnishing A.A.'s reputation over and over... ad inifinitum.

We had a group around here that got pretty weird: Dog On The Roof. They literally drove across the county and took over an old, popular Saturday night speaker meeting by stacking a steering commitee meeting and ram-rodding votes through to elect their kool-aid drinkers to the service positions. F***ing ruined the meeting. It started attracting some young Pacific Group clones. I set up enough chairs over the years in that meeting to fill The Colliseum and here I was 5 or 8 years sober and I get some ass-clown with a crew cut and 90 days getting in my face asking me "how is my program?" LOL

This kind of stuff is just TOO damaging to the reputation of A.A. There is no need to put up with kind of crap. "Midtown" and Ephedophile Q.-Man should be driven out of business, Traditions or no Traditions.

There is no AA Tradition that allows corruption to hide behind anonymity.
Mike Ouinones, Clancy Imislund and the late Hugh McGee should be exposed as the pimps, and procurers, they are.
Out them and let the true message of AA continue to flourish. Protect them and AA will rot, from within.

Notice how the average, non AA reader has nothing to say? This is mostly local AA chat of people well aquianted with the problem who lack the backbone to show -up and stare the problem down in the flesh.But I love you guys all of you, Midtowners too! Of the literally thousands of people that I know locally in AA. None of them will go to Midtown collectively to provide a more attractive option to these "victims, mental patients, and sex addicts". The whole sex thing is ridiculous! I met Mike 22 years ago. He had a girlfriend my age, a 20 years difference at the time. To me, it was obvious that this man suffered a character disorder with sexual manifestations. I was a psycho not a pychologist. For years I have gaped with incredulity at the parade of cute young girls willing to throw themselves at this Somewhat, well-spoken not very attractive pot-bellied narcissist. All his little toadies are equally un-impressive.
AA is a place where we are taught, even in Midtown to take responsibility for our OWN actions. How do well meaning AA's let this go on and not go down there to give the Midtowners a better message. If you think this effects AA as a whole get your sponsees in a car and go down there and do something.
TRADITION 12- is there to protect us from ourselves and desire to be known as some special case. It leads us in a circle back to tradition one, We all hang together or we die separately, as sufferers of a common problem we share our common solution. This is our problem, AA as a whole. It does not belong to WAIA, GSO or especially Newsweek, or the Washington Post. We can solve this with Love and Service if we go.

Isn't it funny that Kristen, Rianne, and Andrew and two or three others are the only people that are making these allegations of systemic issues in the Midtown Group? All others interviewed say that this is not a systemic problem and that people are fallable and anything bad can happen anywhere in any group of people. Older men sleeping with underage girls happens in schools but no one calls it systemic there. While Mike Q has girlfriends much younger than him, it is not a crime. Women who are attracted to him date him. It is legal and not forced. Case closed.

I know all three of these people personally and I know that they are all lying. They just got resentful because they didn't get their way. Kristen dated Mike for years and smiled all the way. No one forced her into a relationship with him or anyone else for that matter. I know her personally and while I believe that she was a good person and a friend when I knew her and though I do not know how she is now, I am sure that her mind has been warped and sickened for her to say the awful things she says. I only hope that she can stay sober and seek help.

I have been a member of the Midtown group since I got sober in 2000 when I was 15. As an underage girl, I was never pressured into dating anyone or to have underage sex. I was also on medication and in psychotherapy for my first year and no one told me to stop taking the medication. It was my decision alltogether. Because I have experience taking medication, I have no qualms about sponsoring people who take medication (as one of my pigeons does) as long as they rely on AA and not the pill to keep them sober. Some people really need those medications and they should continue to take them if they are a necessity. Midtown does not draw its members away from their families, in fact it pulls them together. I have a very close bond with my family now. In fact, my Mother called me Sunday morning when she read the paper and was deeply saddened by the article because she knows it is not true. My Mom and Dad have attended many meetings of the Midtown group and they love the group and credit it with saving my life and reuniting our family.

I am deeply saddened that the Washington Post would print full names and pictures of AA members. GSO sends a letter every year to major press outlets asking that they respect our traditions and abide by them. Washington Post: Please apologize. I expect better from such a normally reputable paper. And for you Marc Fisher: you should check your sources before you print slander. Check their back stories and their motives. You shall see.

Lets all take our OWN inventories so we don't have to stir up dust elsewhere and try to evade the truth about ourselves. Live and Let Live!

The only reason this article was written was because David (quoted in the article) has connections with Newsweek and The Washington Post. A handful of resentful people are using his connections to fulfill their own personal revenge.
If you don't like Midtown, thats fine, I encourage you to start your own group. But from the way things are going, it sounds like you should name it "I hate happy people and my life is your fault" :)

Jorge and Member, in case you missed it, I wrote earlier, "If you, your friends, or Q himself has issues stop hiding behind the guise of anonymity. Sue the hell out of the post for libel [and slander], make it a closed hearing and protect your anonymity (if that is really the case), and get some credibility for your group. The Washington Post DOESN'T get behind a story, let alone put it on the front page if they can't back it up, legally or otherwise. Wake up, get yourself to real AA." Don't give me that "it's against traditions" stuff. Why don't you start asking for financial records of all MT's functions (12-Step Players, SOP, etc.), see how far you get. STOP DRINKING THE KOOL-AID! Get a grip, start going to other meetings and spending time with AA people outside the group on a regular basis and see how far you get w/o being considered as "toxic". Mike and some of your friends better not engage in sexual acts with a 17 year-old "Kristen" in Delaware, AZ, CA, FL, Idaho, LA, MI, NM, NY, ND, TE, or Utah, because there it's called jail.

Sober 28 1/2 years now. Was 28 1/2 when I got sober - (this only happens once - neat though). Been to meetings around the country over the years. Don't doubt there are some less than stellar meetings here and than, now and then. A.A. as a whole is actually strong enough to survive it all. My experience is that by contacting the intergroup, central office or area committe one can obtain the myriad of pamphlets on anything having to do with A.A. as well as all the A.A. literature. For those who are reading from the outside in, let the knowledge that there are approximately 52,000 meeetings nationwide with a rough membership in A.A., including Canada of over 1 million people or more - 2 million worldwide. Don't let yourselves get all caught up in what is the concern of the greater Wash DC area committee. Read all the A.A. pamphlets... and all professionals in the field of alcoholism and drug addiction should be attending one open meeting of A.A. every few weeks to see the broad array of meetings, attendees, references to the basics of A.A. and how to stay sober TODAY. I try to keep my own self "Honest, openminded and willing" to stay sober and help another alcoholic achieve soberity. I am not an M.D. thus I do not have a say on what another alcoholic is prescribed, I might have an opinion, and it is just an opinion, usually to info one's physician if one is an alcoholic. I really need not have opinions on outside issues in the halls of A.A. As I live my live outside of the rooms of A.A. I have a myriad of things I speak up on - but it doesn't belong inside the halls of A.A. This article is a 'bring me in' for the Washington Post, it is skewed to draw attention and create more readers. Let's seek information that A.A. as a whole offers, in it's pamphlets, books, and the boradest membership of A.A. - each with their own view of A.A., and none of us speak for A.A. as whole... we are merely trusted servants, we don't hold court, we don't dictate. If you are like me, have a great sober day... if you are interested in A.A. it is online with connections to local A.A. intergroups for literature and meetings to attend if you are interesting in attending an A.A. OPEN meeting. Thank you for reading.

Jorge, don't you get it? Its not going to stop until the cancer is perged from the body of AA. Its hopeless for you to defend that which so clearly everyone else (except Midtown members) can see is wrong. Your deniel doesn't change the facts. The facts are people have been harmed and you continue to support a group which condones those actions. Your loyalty is admirable, but extremely misplaced. After years of getting away with every abuse known as well as stealing people's money for their own gain, the leaders of this group are going to be stopped one way or another because there are many who have suffered who are finally being heard and neither you nor anyone else who posts here can stop that. Thank God and all who had the courage to stand up and speak out. I know this wasn't an easy decision for Kristen and any others who shared their story. For those who wrote it and edited it and researched it, I wish to thank you from the bottom of my heart. "Our common welfare should come first, personal recovery depends upon AA unity." Amen.

The sources from this article devote their time, energy, and thought into getting revenge for a old resentment through the media. The people at midtown devote their time, energy, and thought into helping the still suffering alcoholic live a happy full life.

I should say that I am no longer a member of AA, but I was at on time a member of the midtown group, in washington dc. I decided after 5 years of sobriety that maybe what I was calling alcoholism when I was 16 might have just been a case of rebellious teen. It happens.

This is to the people of Midtown, not the people who are trying to harm them. Keep up the good work. There are many of us out hear that are forever in your debt. The entire world is not against you, but the angriest people always yell the loudest. While I found out in the long run I was not an alcoholic, you guys taught me how to respect myself, my family and my now wife. You guys accepted me when no one else could or would. Stick to your diginified silence. There is nothing you can say to defend yourself. Words never take the place of experience. My Midtown sponsor taught me that. There will always be people attacking, with or without my old great grand sponsor around. He is a wonderfully kind, loving and defective man.

And before anyone tells me that I am brainwashed, I am not. You just say that whenever you hear someone say something positive about Midtown. It does not matter though. If my old AA experience still holds true, you guys will be drinking over your resentments soon. I hope there is still a good group to help you out.

PS. I know the girl from the article and she is a thief. I am sure I can find a picture of her somewhere that the Washington Post can put online. Marc can call me if he wants it.

All I can say is that I saw all of this coming a LONG LONG time ago. Mike Q has had it made in the shade with pink lemonade. Lets be real people. What 60 year old man wouldn't enjoy himself being the leader of such a young and impressionable group?

In regards to my experience with the group. I was in Midtown for about a year. It was fun while it lasted, but I couldn't deal with the dictatorship and hierarchy of the group. There are certain "rules" at midtown. Some may say "suggestions", but if don't follow the suggestions, you won't feel like "part of the group". I disagreed with a number of things within the group, so I just decided to start going to other meetings and got a new sponsor.

On a more positive note, I did make a lot of friends and I think I built somewhat of a foundation in AA there. I have over 4 years of sobriety today.

But, hey, thats just my experience.

I got pulled into the midtown cult for a couple years and never felt comfortable with the practices but because your whole life becomes it and its people its difficult to escape. I am still tying to rebuild healthy relationships with healthy people but look back at the wasted time and don't wish the group on anyone. It is a dangerous cult.

I began attending AA when I was 19 and now have 26 years of continuous sobriety.

My sobriety began in the DC area. I am familiar with both the names and meetings of those mentioned.

It has been my experience that meetings dominated by seemingly powerful and influential personalities accompanied by worshipful followers are inherently unhealthy. Typically, these powerful figures are male and exhibit predatory behavior. Midtown may be the most egregious, but is not the only example. I've seen the phenomenon in No Va, Richmond and Calvert County.

As a 19 year old young woman with six-months of sobriety, I was raped and impregnated by a well-known "AA Guru" in the No. Va. area.

Who would have believed me?? When the woman who became my sponsor heard the story, she was able to immediately identify the perpetrator. The behavior was well known. I was angry that other women did not warn me.

Fortunately I was able to separate the person from the program. Others are not so fortuate. That is a tragedy.

I feel it is my responsibility to share my experiences, good, bad, and horrible. I am responsible to identify predators to newcomers. I am responsible to share my experiences regarding groups dominated by personalities rather than principles. I am responsible . . . What happens at these meetings does affect AA as a whole. When a suffering alcoholic reaches out for help, may the hand of AA, a selfless not selfish AA, that adheres to the 12 Traditions, be there to share their experience, strength, and hope.

I am a member of AA in Northern Virginia, and it has saved my life. The principles of AA are spiritual principles for life. I encourage anyone who is searching for a way out of your misery to turn to AA. As for the Midtown group- I believe it is up to it's members to have a group inventory, and move past being a "Q" group. The only time AA has ever had men sponsoring women was way in the past when meetings were very few, and at great distances. You men in the "Q", might think of the damage you are doing to AA as a whole. Which is against our traditions. It is also not advised for anyone who has not worked the 12 steps of AA to take on any relationships, which is usually in the first year, because sobriety is your number one priority. Sponsors are primarily to guide you through those steps, not teach you how to do laundry.

Which tradition is men sponsoring women against? During my time in AA I had the honor of sponsoring a woman. She needed help and I gave her the experience I had. She was very distrustful of women and was able to talk to and trust me. I can attest that she never slept with me, nor did anyone suggest she should. After 18 months she decided that she wanted to get a different sponsor and asked a woman. I am happy to hear that she was still sober as of about 9 months ago.

The tradition you speak of is the one that your group has. If I remember correctly there is a tradition that says there are no rules in AA. That if a group or individual strays to far they sicken and die. Sounds like they are talking about God's work, not the Washington Post or a bunch of disgruntled people.

I am sure that some people have legitimate problems. And they should be handled. But why drag the other 99% of the people into it? Does it help you sleep better at night? Or what about all the people that say "I have never been to Midtown, but they sure are bad people!" Unless you have experience you are just taking sides so you can feel right about something. Go outside and look for a cause in your own backyard.

If you have a legitimate gripe or you have been the victim of a crime. Prosecute the person to the fullest extent of the law. I know people say they are afraid and such, but not too afraid to drag some really good people through the mud. If you have the personal experience of being harmed do something about it, but don't act on the word of others.

Trust me you are listening to fools.

Where is the article called "Happy successful DC area AA group under attack by people joing a bandwagon"? Oh yeah, no one wats the read that.

The open door of AA and it's essentially anarchic structure has been a problem for a long time. Even if no one is guilty of anything in this particular instance anybody who's been around AA for any length of time knows about people who were abused. Perhaps there is no way AA can police itself in which case outside authorities should exercise zeal rather than restraint. If this were other than an AA Group this story about pederasts and teenagers would have been sensationalized all over the news and by now Midtown Group members would have been charged and awaiting their day in court; but instead this has been given every opportunity for months to quietly die. I can only hope that this will continue to refuse to die and that, eventually, justice will not only be done here but will fuel a greater awareness of the dangers that lurk for some who so desperately and trustingly walk through the wide open AA doors.

Everyone grow up. Midtown people be real fix your mess we all know its true. Everyone else follow the traditions. Keep it simple. Arrest and charge the ones who broke the law.

I am a midtown member currently, I know all the stories are true. As a member I am speaking up finally. We need to resolve this issue and do it fast or our group will be no more. We are not all bad and we can not let a few cancer cell kill us. We need to be brave and speak up. Brutal Honesty is what is needed right now.

To all Midtown Members:

If the group as a whole owned up to whats been going on for years, it would be the best thing that ever happened to you guys. There are a LOT of good people in the group, it is very unfortunate that the selfishness of a few can ruin it for you all. But honestly, the hierarchy has got to go. There are no leaders in AA. Midtown home group members should be able to go to other meetings when they please, see their "outside" friends, and be able to live their life. We get sober to live, not to be told what to do and ostracized when we do something different. There are many ways to get sober in AA. To be "accepted" in the group, you must go to the same meetings, do what "the group" does in all situations. That mentality has got to be dropped in order for others to feel more welcome. Quite frankly, I would be interested in coming back to Midtown if these "rules aka mandatory suggestions" were throw by the wayside. I look forward to the outcome of this whole situation.

My $0.02

In the meetings I've been to in Northern VA not all AA groups are created equal. Some have strong, caring leaders -- and a few do not. However, the basic philosophy of remaining sober "one day at a time" holds true in every meeting. We should hope that the Post digs more into the good of AA now -- and talks to some of the millions who have been helped vs. the few dirtballs who are slinging soft mud. Though the AA public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion and we (as members) need always to maintain personal anonymity at the level of press, radio and films -- we do have a good story to tell.

I thank the Post for letting us tell the story but encourage further review.

"There is one who has all power, that one is God, may you find him now..."

Let us all put away are arrogance and ignorance for just one day, and see what can happen.....I bet we'll be amazed!

"Bill Wilson would be appal(l)ed."

Bill W. was a notorious womanizer and "13th Stepper."

That doesn't take away from the value of his life, and the value of AA. "We are not saints."

Womanizing and exploiting 16,17 & 18y/o girls are not the same. Thank God my 17y/o daughter hasn't needed AA. She doen't drink or do drugs. I quote her, "I would rather have no friends and no life than have a 50y/o man take my virginity." Out of the mouth of an intellegent babe." She is spreading the word among all of her friends. Unfortunately she is spreading, "Stay away from AA." Sad that Midtown has given us a bad name.

I have been watching this story unfold for awhile now. I have seen it from the perspective of an objective bystander. This story came to my attention pretty much by accident on MySpace. Now, (much to my amazement) it is in Newsweek and, front page on the Washington Post. It really gathered some legs, this story did.
Why?
Everyone directly involved in the issue will have their opinions and judgments about the answer to why. Much of that will come from perspective. Society has always had a special tolerance for the antics of the drunkard. However, this story is really going to end up being about harm, and responsibilty.
I got sober in 1986 at an in-patient treament facility where mandatory AA/NA/CA meetings were attended both in-house, and at outside meetings. The common theory of the mental health professionals of the day seemed to be in accord with the famous Big Book description where the only hope for effective recovery from alcoholism was some transformational and profound psychic shift....ie; spiritual/metaphysical experience. To the treament center I went through re-hab in...that experience was most easily attainable in a 12 step program of recovery. Absolved them of the need to treat my illness any further I suppose. (ie; "dumping into AA" much to the relief of insurance companies I might add). My experience has taught me that this is harmful to many people seeking medical treatment for their addictions, and the professional community needs to assume more responsibility in offering treatment not affiliated with any 12 step group...lest they also endorse all other religious organizations who claim that "God is the answer". That very statement which is asserted before every AA meeting is the newcomers invitation to a cult. Add the instruction of the third step and VIOLA!..you get a Mike Q.
In the MG instance, AA is no more to blame for any harm done to individuals, than any other group within this society that subjects it's devotees to myth, legend, superstitons, and idolatry.

I always have to laugh when I hear all this talk about overcontrolling sponsors and a hierarchy. I think it is astonishing and shocking when I here accusations of cult like, mind controlling tendacies that are SO prevelant in that even the casual observer could spot them a mile away.

I only say that I'm shocked and astonished because accusations of cult like tendancies and mind control have not been any part of my experience.

I asked someone to be my sponsor. He was not assigned. I have been on a few casual dates now and then. The girls were never assigned, forced, or coerced. I took meds for my first year and a half. I shared about it openly. I was never made to feel like I wasn't a sober member. The one and only time I ever had a problem w/ someone stating thier "opnion" about medications and sobriety, my sponsor handed me the phamlet about medication in sobriety and why it is an outside issue. Are thier people in Midtown that are of the opinion you cannot be sober if you take mediactions for depression? Sure there are.

But in talking with others about this, I have met people at meetings here in Maryland, DC, Virginia, Delaware, and New York who feel the same way. From what the literature tells me this is a problem that reaches to every corner of the fellowship. To say that this is "the way" at Midtown is utterly false. In a group this large I can assure you that I am not the lone exception to the rule. This is a hot topic everywhere I have ever been at meetings. Anyone who wants to make the arguement that this is an issue only closely related to one particular AA group obviously hasn't been to a lot of other meetings.

Which leads me to the my last point. This business about about only attending certain meetings. Nobody, and I wil repreat, NOBODY has ever told me which meetings that I HAVE to attend. I try to attend meetings on a daily basis, and it is up to me to decide where I want to go. My sponsor, has even pointed me in the direction of several great meetings that some would have you to believe are "outside meetings".

I cannot speak to every charge and accusation that I have ever heard leveled against my home group. I can only speak to the ones that I have direct experience with. Like i said before, I am shocked and astonished when I hear such a diverse and volumous arrray of accusations. Shocked and awed becasuse they are not happening to me or others I see around me.

What I do see is a group of people, who as a whole, are trying to stay sober one day at a time and trying to help those that are still suffering. FInding this program has been the best thing that has ever happened to me. Being surrounded by people who are actively working towards a solution makes it all the more bearble.

PS. Note to the author, the part about the letter that was circulated in the Spring as repsonse to accusations. If you and your editors are actually paid to do this for a living, I would think that since you are writing such a "fair and impartial" piece for the public good, you would have done a little bit better job of getting your story straight. That is what why you do this, right?

In response to AA Member | July 25, 2007 01:38 PM

This was just my experience. Maybe things have changed quite a bit since Mike Q has gotten ill. I was in midtown from 2003-2004 and that was when things were the way I described them. I wasn't treated the same way when I started going to other meetings and had a sponsor outside of midtown. People weren't as friendly towards me. Hopefully, for the sake of the group, things have changed.

Just hearing that there was an article written on Midtown made my heart drop. If there are any parents reading this who have children in this particular group, please pull them away immediately. I turned to Midtown not as an alcoholic, but a troubled teen who identified with others like myself. While my parents rarely saw me and questioned why I would be returning home at 2 am on school nights, they resisted action because afterall, it was an "AA" group, and then only had my best intentions at heart.

This could not be further than the truth. I joined Midtown when I was 15 and left when I was 16 after my parents found out I had been one of the older sponsers, a 28 year old member whom I first had strong reservations about and only began to see after I was encouraged by other members. He was one of the many older men I had been with at the time. While I will not go into the extremely personal and disturbing experiences I went through with this group, it was without a doubt the most shameful time in my life. As a 21 year old about to enter my senior year in college, I am positive I would not be here today had I not been pulled away from that cult experience. Whoever says that Midtown is a helpful AA experience is dead wrong. Any young member I knew in the group is either out using again and more screwed up than ever before, or is sober and left them for the horrible activities they condone. And whoever was only giving information about the older men having sexual relations with only 16 and 17 year olds was not giving the full story. I was only 15 at the time and every man I was pushed upon was over 25, and so was the friend that brought me in, and I know for a fact that she had slept with Mike Q numerous times before I had even entered the picture. I don't care how many people he helped get sober, the man has taken advantage of countless underage girls, and he deserves everything he has coming to him.

Also, just because you can't see things happening around you doesn't mean that things don't happen. I am at a place where I would be willing to help Midtown gain a better reputation. I would rather take the steps to make this situation right rather than to risk the welfare of all of the good people in the group.

Its really sad how the actions of a few have affected this many people. The DC area should really come together and try to do what they can to help instead of tearing the whole group down. This is especially directed towards young people in AA.

Please contact the authorities and report this. Then something can be done. If you were 15, this can be very helpful to put a lot of this to rest. They only need one to come forward. If nothing else, do it so that this can stop and spare some of our children!

It's great to see all the sanity being expressed in this blog.

There are no authorities in AA, nor are there official leaders, and that is why the fellowship has survived. That's also why this particular group is getting some bad pub, because someone seems to have decided that a certain approach is the "right" approach, and that somehow their view is "better." They can "prove" it, I'm sure.

And, like any group that starts putting the personality ahead of the principle (whether it's the local Lions' Club or some big church), they're having trouble because the approach has become more important in some peoples' minds than the fellowship itself.

Because of its traditions, AA is self-healing by its very nature. No one at the local Intergroup or World Services has the authority to condemn or applaud the activities of one of the groups. Nor is anyone supposed to have authority over anyone else's approach. The fellowship intentionally was designed that way.

The traditions are there, in black and white, in all the aa-approved literature, and we're all (supposed to be) adults. If what's going on there goes against the traditions, then I'd say stay away from it. If shenanigans are going on at this meeting, get the heck away from it.

We are all flawed, and we modern Americans scream like stuck pigs whenever a perceived "guarantee" falls through. The minute you start believing in guarantees, you are in trouble, and, again, that's part of what is problematic about the approach described herein -- you start getting proscriptive about the approach to AA, it gets very cookie-cutter, and top it off with a "leader", self-proclaimed or otherwise, and that is a recipe for errancy.

Hey, that goes against the traditions, I think I'll go for a more moderate approach. . .enough of my yakkin. . . let's boogie.

I was part of Midtown for roughly two years, although I am no longer in the group, I fully support what they do. These allegations that Mike Q. "runs" midtown are not true, he is simply looked up to by many for his length of sobriety. I personally never cared for the man for my own reasons, but to put his last name out there along with pictures is disgusting as I expected more respect from the Washington Post. I never saw any girl forced into sexual relations nor any slavery, do not mistake my words, I am not denying it took place, but I never saw it as I was learning to live sober with people that cared about me and my sobriety. There are many good people in Midtown that have helped hundreds to stay sober. The nice thing about AA is that if you are not happy with a meeting, you can find another one. Just as there is no one way to sobriety, there is no one set of guidelines for a group. What works for them works for them, what works for me works for me. All parents that fear Midtown because they have lost their relationship with their children should stop blaming the group and look at how their relationship could affect the child's sobriety because I can guarantee no sponsor would support cutting family out for no reason. The group relies on strict boundaries for those that have become beaten and bloodied because they could not survive otherwise. You can dismiss my words and consider it propaganda of the enemy, but in the end the ones that lose in this battle are the ones that cannot get sober because one more group has been debased as a lethal cult.

To the people defending the Midtown Group: you need serious help. I was in the MG in 98' and immediately left when I figured out what was going on; thankfully I was able to take a few people with me. I knew quite a few girls in their late teens who slept with these creeps (Mike Q., Jack, Arno, etc) and there was even a girl who was used by the hierarchy to sleep with newcomer males to entice them to stay in the group. Besides the sex, I saw families ripped apart by this cult. In some instances half of the family was in the MG and the other half wasn't. Needless to say it was not a pretty situation and in ALL cases children were involved. What a nice childhood those poor kids must have had.

To the long term members of the Midtown Group: even if you didn't have sex with minors, you are complicit. Many of you lived through the frequent uprisings within Midtown and you knew the accusations being leveled against these men. Yet many of you did nothing. I think you shoud be ashamed of yourselves and serious ammends need to be made to the people that were harmed.

OH Please!Stop the AA lingo and slogans and traditions! For 15 plus years people have said " Go to other meetings, start a new group, they are not AA. In the meantime they have grown to 400+ people, hold positions in WAIA, control the "Where & When", chair the H & I comittee, and answer the phones. Tradition 4 ..Yes they are autonomous but they have now affected AA as a whole. It is time we take action and remove them. It may take ammending a tradition but so what! It has been 72 yrs. maybe they should be ammended. The US constitution has had to be ammended

I am a 21 years old with two years of sobriety. My life has completely changed because of AA; from having practically nothing going for myself I have already traveled abroad and am getting ready to tranfer to a four-year college, just to mention a few examples. There have been some bad characters that I have come across in the rooms, but there have also been some strong women to lead me away from these predators. This is how my experience has been; sometimes there is drama and resentment, but the underlying principles of love and tolerance along with the strength of my own program have always prevailed. I don't live in fear.

As a young person I have experienced a lot of joy and a lot of fun in sobriety. I have never been a member of the Midtown group and I am only here to offer love and service to those who would have it. I have been to meetings all over and that has been the code.

I'm not trying to criticise by saying this, but if there are any Midtown members reading this who think that you can't have fun as a young person in outside AA, I can tell you that hasn't been my experience. I have no interest in ostracising anyone, and I believe the God governs all of this. I have faith in that, and I am just here to be as kind, loving and useful as I can be. I don't want to see people get hurt or die, and I know as an AA member I am responsible to act out of love in helping the next suffering alcoholic, and that that is the answer.

I think I will attend a Midtown meeting at some point, and I encourage anyone in Midtown to check out meetings outside of your homegroup. Not to leave, but just so that we might be able to meet. I am open to any and all new people I can have in my network!

The difference between AA and a cult is that AA only suggests, they do not ask or force you to do anything. The Q group forced people to do things, so in that sense is a cult. I have attended the Choir group (basically an extension of Midtown group) since 1988. The group helped plenty of people, however it is well known that "Q" was/is a sick guy. A friend once went to the "Q" house and told him "what are you doing, this is worse than being out there (drinking/using)" Q said "what do you mean?" he could'nt see how sick he was, that he was basically replacing one addiction with another (alcohol with sex). That these girls and young men held him in such high esteem is something I'll never figure out, to me he was always a dirt bag.

I used to attend Midtown many years ago before I realized I was not an Alcoholic. I never truly fit in because I could see the manipulation going on, and was not one that would clean anyone's house. The group used to say "if you like what he has do what he does" That is how they were able to impress young teenagers.
Of all the things that shocked me was that it was public knowledge of who had STD's. All of the old timers, men and women had something and it was public and perfectly ok. Eventually, everyone had been with everyone during a certain period of time. Girl friends and boy friends were swapped as you do with your clothes. Mike Q used to impress young girls by buying them expensive gifts, and taking them away on trips. Of course these young girls were impressed, they had never seen something like this. The group is a very material one and they live a very very nice lifestyle. Now, many members have married others and have young children. It would be very difficult for them to disband; they have been there all their lives and would not know how to act in the outside world. They were always threatened with "if you leave, you will die" I could keep on going and going and going. I always thought about writing a story too, but am glad that the Post and Newsweek printed it.

I used to attend Midtown many years ago before I realized I was not an Alcoholic. I never truly fit in because I could see the manipulation going on, and was not one that would clean anyone's house. The group used to say "if you like what he has do what he does" That is how they were able to impress young teenagers.
Of all the things that shocked me was that it was public knowledge of who had STD's. All of the old timers, men and women had something and it was public and perfectly ok. Eventually, everyone had been with everyone during a certain period of time. Girl friends and boy friends were swapped as you do with your clothes. Mike Q used to impress young girls by buying them expensive gifts, and taking them away on trips. Of course these young girls were impressed, they had never seen something like this. The group is a very material one and they live a very very nice lifestyle. Now, many members have married others and have young children. It would be very difficult for them to disband; they have been there all their lives and would not know how to act in the outside world. They were always threatened with "if you leave, you will die" I could keep on going and going and going. I always thought about writing a story too, but am glad that the Post and Newsweek printed it.

It seems that there is no end to the controversy surrounding Midtown. Before those members who have had nothing but wonderful experiences tell the rest of us that we are crazy or are guilty of slander,consider that there are plenty of men and women, girls and boys, truth be told, who have been damaged by Midtown's culture. If your experience as a midtown member has been positive, great. But don't for a minute tell us that you didn't notice at the periphery at least that other things were going on. I remember the first time I saw Mike Q speak to a packed house at Dupont and his opening remarks began with a joke about how he had just come from an orgy. What better way to difuse a powder keg than to openly admit to your crimes and play it off as a joke? I've been to several meetings where members who attempted to leave midtown were stalked-followed as they reached out to other more senior healthy memebrs of AA. In one instance in particular, three young men spent the entire meeting at the bagel club glaring at a young man sitting across from them who was clearly frightened out of his mind. I approached him afterwards and he let me in on his issue. Sure enough as the meeting was dispersing, they approached both of us, speaking only to him and told him to come with them to a midtown meeting that night. I was shocked. When I asked them if they were overstepping their bounds, one of them shot me a look and told me to stay out of Midtown's business. If nothing else, Midtown is in dire need of new leadership. Whether or not the negative experiences documented in the article and by other people on this blog were universal is not the point. That they were part of th