Why are the continue to go with Brunel? I believe the players know he can't get it down. And that has to kill their spirit. I know I shouldn't pull for a player to get hurt. But that is the only way Brunell gets pulled.

Damn. Now we need to get this thread to 500.

BTW, can we make a Blaw that you're not allowed to call something a "blog" unless you a) enable comments and b) respond to your commenters?

Why is it that all these boring, soulless corporations are creating "blogs" but forgetting that the point is not writing yet another dumb column, but creating a dialogue with your customers?

I say this not of the WashPo, but the 'Skins. Note to redskins.com, this is not a "blog", it's a column: http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=18156

But I digress.

Gibbs apologized to the fans for not stopping the bus to say hello as they left the Park.

I want an apology for putting such a horrific product on the field. I want an apology for playing Brunell, trading away draft pick after draft pick. I want an apology for "Vinny's Blog" on Redskins.com. I'd like to see some accountability and competance. How about simply getting a play called on time. What about some clock management? How about not throwing the red challenge flag inside of 2 minutes to go in the half? How about not throwing a three yard pass to Betts on every single third down play?

This team is again the laughingstock of the NFL. With comparitively little cap room and only 4 draft picks, I don't see things getting better quickly.

How do we get out of this mess? I have a name for you:

Jason Licht

Can't really say anything else at this point. We could "woulda, coulda, shoulda" this to death, but the fact remains this is a bad team and worse organization. Shouldn't have lost to Minnesota and Tennessee, could be 4-3 and in the mix. Whatever. They were supposed to lose to the Colts and they did.

The thing that gets me are the penalties. Santana's penalty was a dagger (at the time, anyways). The celebration penalties are ridiculous. WTF was Frost punting the ball on that one kickoff? And the penalty? Can he be released already?

This is just a BAD team. The organization is fundamentally flawed. What a freaking disaster.

The thing that I think is "flawed" about the organization (and, obviously, I'm an outsider) is that unlike the Mr. Cooke era when there were three huge personalities weighing in on every big decision (Mr. Cooke, St. Joe, Bobby Beathard), here there seems to be only one.

In an attempt to avoid the appearance of meddling, "Mr." Snyder may have taken a step back. Vinny is not the GM and whether or not he is any good is irrelevant. He doesn't have St. Joe's credentials, and that may put him in a weaker position in the decision-making process.

Again, that's just an outsider's viewpoint. The only people who know what's going on there are the three principals mentioned above.

Of course, this is all totally water under the bridge. With the talent on this team, they should be at minimum 4-3 at this point. Wrinkled old white men in the front office or wearing headsets on the sideline don't block, tackle, pass, catch, or run.

This a game remind me of a very bad gypsy attack...they stole my wife, plow... and they touch my horse in a very bad way... he got very depressed. The Redskin got touched very bad. Peyton Mannings...big khram! Borat was wrong!

Throw Brunell down the well,
So my Redskin can be free,
You must grab him by the horns,
Then we have a big party!

Jason and Howard are in an Indy restaurant and a coupla members of the blogging nation have come up to say hi!

This has gotten so far out of wack I can not believe that Joe Gibbs has messed up as bad as he has. We have a QB in Jason Campbell who we do not know a thing about and yet we gave up 4 draft picks for this guy. Two number ones(including the one used on him) and two other picks. That's four players we could have right now for a guy who has not been in a regular season game!! Unfortunately for Jason, he will have expectations to perform at a level that will be very hard to justify the 4 picks given up. We gave up another 2 draft picks for B. Lloyd,what should be a very high third round pick for TJ, who has 5 touches this year?? How many quality players have we let go since Joe has been back? Champ, Smoot, AP, Clark, etc. Not to mention the two second round picks given up for Rocky McIntosh, who is nothing more than a special teams player at this point and can not unseat Warrick Holdman!! Is there any chance that Joe will fire himself as GM? What about getting a real GM? We overpay free agents and refuse to pay our own players and have the largest amount of dead cap money in league. Given the teams history of over paying free agents from other teams why would we not make a respectable offer to Bobby Beathard when they tried to get him back? Unfortunately, all of this will continue to hurt this team for the next 5 years. Your thoughts.....

There's only one decent restaurant in Indianapolis (St. Elmo). I hope they're there.

Oceanaire doesn't count as a decent restaurant because it is a chain and...can you imagine seafood in Indianapolis?

They better be drinking a Shiraz/Cab.

The Fire Al Saunders Movement has officially begun. Sign up now! With all apologies to Queen, I present the FASM's theme song:

Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide, No escape from reality
Open your eyes, Look up to the Skins and see,
I'm just a poor fan, but I need some sympathy
Because they're easy come, easy go, Little high, little low
Any way the team blows really does matter to me, to me

Saunders, just killed the team, Put a playbook to their head
Pulled the screen play, now they're dead
Saunders, why don't you run?
But now you've gone and thrown it all away
Saunders, ooh, did you mean to make us cry?
But if you're not fired some time tomorrow
The season's gone, the season's gone as if nothing really matters...

Too late, his time has come
Sends shivers down his spine, body's aching all the time
Goodbye, ev'rybody, Mark's got to go
Gotta leave him all behind and face the truth...
Season, ooh, I don't want it to die
I sometimes wish I never had watched at all

I see a little silhouetto of a coach
Saunders, Al, Saunders, Al, will you please run the damn ball?
Thunderbolt and lightning, very, very fright'ning me
(Micheal Sellers.) Ladell Betts. (TJ Duckett.) Clinton Portis, Clinton Portis figaro.....
Magnifico! I'm just some dumb fan and nobody hears me
But they're just some poor backs forgotten by their family
Spare us the sight of this monstrosity!
Easy come, easy go, will the coaches let them go?
Bismillah! No, we will not let you go
(Let them go!) Bismillah! We will not let you go
(Let them go!) Bismillah! We will not let you go
(Let them go.) Will not let you go
(Let them go.) Will not let you go. (Let them go.) Ah
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
(Oh Papa Gibbs, Papa Gibbs!) Papa Gibbs, let them go
Al Saunders has a devil put aside for thee, for thee, for thee...

So you think you can rush them and spit in my eye
So you think you can hire me and then let me die
Oh, St Joesph, you can't do this to me, Joseph
Just gotta work it out, just gotta work it right this week.....

Screens really matter, Anyone can see
Reverses really matter
My playbook really matters to me.....

And, anyway the team blows.....

HaikuMan, you have talent. Well, at least insomuch as Weird Al Yankovic has talent. And, hey, Weird Al is getting old. I think there's a niche there for you to fill.

I wonder what's going to give out first. My liver, or my laptop's battery.

I simply came to the conclusion that a mere 17 syllables, even given the beauty of the 5-7-5 format, was woefully insufficient to capture the complete dysfunction that Al Saunders' system has brought to the team this year.

And limericks are light hearted and funny. I am not feeling too light hearted and funny right now.

So, the Fire Al Saunders Movement is here to STAY. All arguments about him being brought in by Gibbs or blah, blah, blah will be rejected. Any abecedarian troglodyte can revist the past - the FASM looks to the solutions of the future!!!

FIRE
Al
SAUNDERS
NOW.

Don't make me break out the pitchforks and torches. "Torches" is a VERY hard word to rhyme.

Who's in?

This "Fire Saunders" stuff is just insane. It was pointed out during the preseason by several people in the sports media that his offense takes a YEAR or TWO to gell. That unnerved me at the time but I had hopes that it would be different with our team. Well, it's not. But firing him is NOT the answer. It's not working but it probably just takes time....will not happen this season. That truly sucks and the organization is to blame for perhaps trying to fix something that was not truly broken.

You cannot install a system that takes two years to work when you have a QB that is as old as #8. The Skins has to go for it THIS year. I am not saying Saunders is a bad person or that his past kick-ass offenses were a fluke or not real or anything like that. What I AM saying is that the Redskins did not have the right types of players for his system. FIRE HIM NOW and return to pure Gibbs -- which, I should remind you, won 5 in a row last year with essentially the same offensive personnel that he has now. And, as an added BONUS, that type of smash mouth football helps your defense as well.

They have the bye week. Fire Saunders NOW and have 2 weeks to have hardcore practices for what WORKED for these types of players. Staying the course only works for our Iraq policy.....errrr.....

I'm watching the Whirled Series and I'm pretty sure I hate Josh Grayson. Who is Josh Grayson and why is he singing in the Whirled Series? After listening to that, I think it's time for me to switch to PBR.

that his offense takes a YEAR or TWO to gell

Then we should have started JC this year so we could be ready to make a run next year. A whole year wasted with Brunell at QB? No, I think the powers that be at Redskin park thought they could win with this offense this year.

Not sure I buy all this ranting and raving about thw QB,saunders etc.

Can you spell D-E-F-E-N-S-E? Well, if you can, the redskisn shure can't play it. Offensive changes would have made more sense if we the skins could still play D. without that, we'll be talking about JC for rest of the season . . .

stinks, I hate losing to the cowboys twice in a year. . . .

I agree that the organization thought that bringing in Saunders to spice up a dull offense would be the answer. I feel like they should have just brought in another receiver or two to complement Santana. However, they are not going to fire Saunders (after all this was their mistake)anymore than they are going to bench Brunell. But at this point, it would be good to see if Campbell would be a better fit for Saunders offense.

i like your can-do spirit, diddy! 500 here we come!
or, here you come. i'm heading home. manana, nation.

//I feel like they should have just brought in another receiver or two to complement Santana.//

Um, B Lloyd? Randel El? ARE was productive today, but mostly on special teams. Lloyd is supposedly the 2nd WR, but I'll make a bet his stats as the 2nd WR are dead last compared to every other 2nd WR in the NFL.

And yes, the defense does suck. No argument. But when you only run EIGHT plays in the 3rd quarter...your defense is bound to get torched eventually. The D held the Giants to 19 points -- and NY was ranked higher than Indy in offense at the time and maybe even now -- and kept the Skins with a lead going into the half. The offense only exacerbates the defenses weaknesses right now by going three and out CONSTANTLY and giving the D zero time to rest or plan or adjust. Yes, the Defense needs work, too -- no question. But you have GOT to start by returning to classic Gibbs smash mouth football to have any hope of saving this season.

And you start by FIRING AL SAUNDERS. And yes, putting JC in regardless. But FIRE AL SAUNDERS NOW.

HaikuMan,

I said they should have brought in another receiver or two (ala Randle El & Lloyd) to complement Santana BUT should not have brought in Saunders. Randle El & Lloyd may have been a much better fit in the Gibbs offense. But they did not ask my opinion :-)

Gibbs should at least go back to calling some of the plays or working as a team with Saunders on the play calling but you are dreaming if you really think he will fire Saunders.

Like I said on the other thread, the chances of St. Joe firing Al Saunders are about as likely as "Mr." Snyder changing the team's racist nickname.

Not going to happen. Save your energy (and creativity) for something that matters.

BTW, funny I mention Weird Al. Today is apparently his birthday.

Life is but a dream.
Living is dreaming those dreams
And making them real.

(Honest to God poetry....and you thought I was just a cad...:)

Diddy, how about laying off the criticism of the name Redskins?

The Redskins are a bad team. That's old. And that has traded away their draft picks.

I don't understand at all why Brunell still plays. The guy cannot throw the ball deep or accurately. Everybody talks about going back to last year, but they had a dominating defense last year and could afford to have a weak offense. That's not the case this year.

Sorry, I live in an area with a relatively large Native American population, and count among my friends numerous Native Americans. It is a patently offensive name to them and out of respect I, as a rule, do not wear clothing with the word "Redskins" on it and try and avoid using the word except when unavoidable in the context of a sentence (like this one, or when citing the team's domain name, for example).

I am most definitely not "politically correct" by any stretch of the imagination (indeed, I am an insensitive ass the bulk of the time). But this name is what it is, no matter how much people would prefer to point to the glorious tradition and history behind it (which, if you're a 'Skins fan, you know is not exactly glorious, except in 1972 and between 1981-1992).

You can believe what you believe. To each his or her own. That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it.

i think jarvis hayes gets Most Improved player award this year. Antonio Daniels as best 6th.. Agent Zero's scoring avg takes a dip to around 25, but we still end up with highest scoring trio with him, butler and jameson. Lang will make the team and end up starting like 15-20 games this year (not due to injury of haywood or etan).

oh wait........

This Skins team would be an underdog to the infamous '93 Richie Pettibone squad.

Now that is sad.

Thank Gawd we went out and got Novashank.

That was cheapshot and undeserved, I know. So what.

First... Jason - thanks for the shoutout this weekend, the green BoSox hat rocks!

Lucky for you and us, the Skins gave you and us plenty to write about for the next two weeks.

Skins Problems:

- No halftime adjustments, the bread and butter of Gibbs teams in the '80s

- Too many stars, not enough role players:
1. Got rid of Arrington, but shouldn't have lost Pierce.
2. Got rid of Smoot, should have kept Clark over Arch - Where are Alvin Walton, Rich Milot, Darryl Grant and Fred Stokes when you need them?!

- Gibbs can't keep Campbell "in the minors" like he did with Schroeder, Ryp, Stan Humphries, Cary Conklin. Doubt JC would do any better because...

- the line is getting beat badly, showed in the Dallas game and exposed again today. The O-Line is overrated; Samuels but more so Jansen; the Colts front four looked like the NY Sack Exchange.

- Brunell is looking more and more like Jeff Rutledge, can win a game or two but his body isn't able to handle the high level of play for more than 2 consecutive weeks at a time.

- They need to throw the ball downfield to stretch the defense and to cash in on the big play potential of our stud WRs. The problem is Brunell doesn't have anytime, needs line help.

- Could have used that 3rd round Duckett pick on a CB or OL - could say the same for lost JC draft picks

- I agree, how did Daniels NOT get called for Roughing the Manning?

Jason, I'd love to hear more about why Lloyd shrugged off Lazor, then was consoled by Randle-El. Guessing he was upset that he wasn't involved in the 2nd half, would love to hear more. Lloyd has played the real politician for weeks now, I was waiting to see when he'd lose it and Fox showed it today - can't blame him.

Santana, you're the man... but you gotta know... the refs always call the second guy.

Forget firing Saunders, get Czaban off Comcast Post Game Live... Steve, you're even a visual disgrace to my Picture in Picture, stay on the radio where we don't have to see you, hearing you is painful enough.

just checking up on my old team. Life is good in Europe. Anyway, check out this article on the racist legacy of the skins:
http://espn.go.com/page2/wash/s/2002/0305/1346021.html

Diddy, I'm sure you have good intensions. You seem like a decent person. But what is/isn't offensive and who is/isn't a racist is certainly just going to turn into an ugly argument.

Yup, better to put it in a closet and never discuss it. That usually works out for the best.

It was definitely one of those games that pretty much starts putting nails in the coffin for the season. It's hard to point out any one reason why we got so trounced, but there's many little ones that created a giant shabingas.

The defense? Oy, where do we start? Sad as it is to say, I think we will definitely be missing Carlos the Jackal in the secondary. The alleged cornerbacking of "No-Bounce" Springs, Two-Wrongs and Speedbumph was dismaying. You could have put John Madden and his turducken dinner table with trimmings in between those gaps - we were getting spanked on the comebacks. Archubingus was just missing out on coverage. And "Can't Getta" Holdmann and "Hari-" Khary Campbell, uh....

Offense? What offense? I didn't see all that much of an offense. Well, an offensive offense, yes, but... Cooley played alright, so at least we know his particular superpowers didn't dissapear with losing his splatastic hairdo. But yet again, the defense played quite a few guys up in the front box, then backed them off just in time for Brunell to ape the motions of throwing long. I just really hope that Head Deity doesn't find yet another way to justify having (Off-The-)Mark on the field for another week. It's nice you have a brainy, smart QB. Unfortunately, his job involves actually throwing the football, too.

Special teams? Nick Novak's name in my mind will be changed to 'Nick NoFiG' for the next two weeks.

Buh.

First Cooley cuts his hair, then Nick's "inconsistent performance". There is absolutely nothing fun about this season at all. I can't think of a single silver lining. Anyone?

I can't think of a single silver lining. Anyone?

I think Archubingus' & Andre Carter's pockets might be the only silver linings. Still no fun for us.

Meg's right, and it's been said here many times before. If the offense is going to take more than an offseason to learn, than play Campbell. Do you really think Brunell gives this team a chance next season?

But really, did they need to sign Saunders? If Gibbs had continued calling plays, then maybe Brunell's more comfortable. Changing systems didn't help Campbell's progress, either.

And Jason, when are were going to read about the Redskins porous offensive line. We've seen critical stories about the defensive line, linebackers, secondary, all the new additions and Brunell. But why has that quintuplet of crap (I'm taking liberties, I know) been given a free pass? They can't run block, they can't pass block. They seem to have no passion (except against Jacksonville). Speaking of getting off easy, Marcus Washington is a nice LB, but his coverage skills are terrible. Always have been. And why was Posey logging minutes instead of Rocky?

I think it might be time to build for next year.

Well there goes my gusto... Skip Hicks blogging on my favorite time killer. I hated that guy on the field (Skip, I'm sure you're swell but if you ever want to contribute, use a fake name)

I'd also like to raise this point. The defensive coaches think that Andre Carter is causing havoc for opposing quarterbacks, despite his utter inability to even reach a passer. If Gregg Williams and Co. want to see what it looks like when a defensive end creates problems without logging a sack, they should look at what Dwight Freeney did Sunday. That's how you run rampant and fluster a QB. Carter's performance pales -- PALES -- in comparison.

Here's what's clear to me: If Campbell could play, he'd be playing. These guys see him all year, and it's obvious that they don't have any faith in him. It's not "blind loyalty" to Brunell, it's just that they don't have any other option (Collins is a non-factor). But none of this really matters since the D is in shambles.

There was a lot going on out there J-LA. Three seasons worth of crazy penalties, just like when Spurrier was here, and Marty before he, which was begotten of Norv Turner and so on. We are approaching a generation of crazy penalty filled seasons for the Redskins.

I think hosting one home play-off game since 1991 starts to put the Washington Redskins organization in the league of the laughingstock Los Angles Clippers, the Arizona Cardinals, and the Chicago Cubs...complete loser franchises. And yet, the largest stadium in the NFL is always filled. The fans make the Redskins the most valuable franchise in the league. Our current owner is a marketing genius. He wants to win, or at least gives the impression that he does. What will it take to bring a winning team to DC. Last year was ok, but not really that enjoyable..filled with agony leading up to and during the streak.

When is it our turn to get home field advantage and cheer during a home Redskins play-off game? It feels like I have been waiting my whole adult life.

Most amusing moment from the 'Skins misadventure in Indy:

During the post-game news conference (as broadcast on Comcast Sports Network), Mark Brunell stepped up for his turn in front of the electronic rotating advertisement board, and a reporter (?) walked up to place a monstrous, 70's-era cassette tape recorder on the podium to capture his comments.

M. Brunell's stunned reaction: "Are you kidding me? Do people still use these?"

Thor, I loved that moment.

I wonder if there are any old-timers lurking out there. I've been watching the 'Skins since 1982 and easily the most absurd thing I have ever seen was today's penalty on Frosty and the subsequent kickoff from the 5 yard line.

Can anyone think of anything that could top that? Maybe Frerotte's little head butt...of a wall? Jeff Rutledge's bent facemask in the final regular season game of 1991? Everything Dexter Manley ever did off the field?

You have to think that the three decades of futility (1940s, 50s, and 60s) were fraught with even dumber moments. At least I want to think that. I want to think anything other than the fact that we are in the midst of another era of paper bag-wearing futility.

Memo to the players/cast:

Two weeks from today on WWF Smackdown meets the NFL, A.K.A WWW SAW (sunday afternoon wrassling), we will see the scripted "live action" featuring: "the refs"...A.k.A "Zebras", "the coaches" Old Joe Faithful" "Joe...Dirt Bag Bugel" "Greg, I only hug Fishers" Williams (formerly a Defensive mastermind..now only blitzes on special occaisions), Clinton "Dolemite" Portis in his pre-game costume, perhaps eating gunpowder.... Sean "I'm crampy" Springs, "Mike" Two-Step Rumph...the return of Carlos "screw hand" Rogers.
Brunel the "Whip-cracking-Noodle-Arm" QB "He's SUPER Smart", Antwaan "Goal Post Shakin" El, Derrick "Rip my helmet off" Frost...will he punt or kick-off...you decide..Brandon "the sulker" Lloyd-he can Rapp too! John "Human Growth Complainer" Jansen. John "hip socket" Hall has been replaced in the line-up by Nick "Novacaine" Novack-Chris Heavy Metal Cooley will now play Chris schoolboy Cooley..get your assignments and practice your moves for "under the big Top at Fed-Ex sportstainment."

Sonny: "What an archibingus."
Sam: "Total dagbingus."
Larry: "Timeout on the field."

1) The name is most certainly racist.

2) Lisa, I grant you that Brunell may not have LOST the game for the Skins, but he didn't win it for them either.
Statistical evidence of his futility:

Manning:
25/35 for 342 yards
13.7 yards per completion
9.8 yards per pass attempt

Brunell: 27/37 for 226 yards.
8.4 yards per completion
6.1 yards per pass attempt

That is WOEFUL!! 8.4 yards is a good number for yards per attempted pass, but not yards per completion. 6.1 yards per pass attempt is simply unacceptable as a professional QB.

Hey All,

Please fill me in here... it's driving me crazy. After that punt return we had a penality on Randle el for celebration... then the next thing I see is what looks like Frost about to do a drop kick? on a kickoff? what was that all about? then what the *bleep* was he freaking out about?

thanks... this blog rocks.

Hey Coach Gibbs, maybe it's time for the "future" to start? Something interesting one of the guys in the booth said yesterday, the Redskins have to give Jason Campbell a chance to show what he's got this seasons so we can plan for next year's draft (provided we have any drafts left). What was the point of playing Brunell with 2 minutes to go and down by 2 scores? Another Dallas miracle? That would have been a good opportunity to see what JC can do. That way if he sucks, we find out before next season is wasted.

Uggh. So it wasn't a bad dream after all.

*Going back to bed*

All this talk about Al. All the talk about going back to last year 5 game run. Let's look back at the run. What really did Brunell do during that time? (same as he is doing now NOTHING!!!) In the playoff what did Brunell do? When we need him to step up and make plays which would make it easier for CP he can't. Put in a QB that can make the throws. Then if it doesn't work I will call for Al to get the can. Until then, I will continue to look at this old QB that is hurting the team.

JOE MUST GO! JOE MUST GO! JOE MUST GO!

As stated so succintly on Mike & Mike in the morning, we as fans of the sport have no idea what the Redskins are even trying to do! Now their only decent win is marred by the fact of the Jags losing to Houston. Not just losing but getting pummeled!

Gibbs looked truly lost at the podium after the game. Maybe during the bye week, they can all go Disney World since hey, they're all in this together and they've got such a great group of guys who fight hard!

You had a great history with the Redskins, Coach. Sorry you spoiled it. Now you're just above the ranks of Denny Green and Art Shell.

This team is actually worse now than when the Space Cowboys took over.

Nobody in their right mind thinks that Jason Campbell can turn this thing around this year. But before we go into the draft with the number 2 or 3 pick, it'd be nice to know if we need to draft a quarterback or a great corner. The only way we'll find out is to give the ball to Jason for the remainder of the season to see what he can do.

I am spinning in here. I cannot believe Gibbs sticks with: Brunnell, Saunders, TJ Duckett. Well ok on that last one. Its the salary cap type mentallty, players....bring back the old love to play days, and stop producing million dollar baies

Campbell can't play. His arm is too weak to be considered real NFL starter caliber. They know it.

During the broadcast, I heard Aikman talk about meeting with Brunell before the game. In that little story, Troy also alluded to the fact the Redskins players seem to be demoralized because of the wholesale changes brought on by the hiring of Saunders. He asserted that the players felt that they had something going when they made the playoffs and that they only needed a few enhancements instead of a complete playbook overhaul.

Will we see players going public with their frustration over the wholesale scheme change?

It's like 1999 all over again.

Dopes.

John in Bluemont

" His arm is too weak to be considered real NFL starter caliber".

Well since no one has seen him in a real game we don't know. Can you in your right mind believe Brunell has a NFL starter arm? I see you took the blue pill.

Aikman, also spoke of the playcalling, and how that all the short passes are what is killing us. We keep throwing these short passes, which as Aikman stated, brings the defense closer to the LOS. This is a two-fold problem because now, you've got 9 guys at the line, and we're trying to run, and or, throw a short pass. We need to start using some 15-20 yard pass plays, just to open things up.

I just can't figure why Gibbs is so loyal to Brunell. If he REALLY thinks that he is the answer (I'd hate to hear the question!!), then what is he seeing? Remember how quick he was to pull Ramsey when he wasn't even that bad?? I wonder if Brunell has some incriminating photos of Gibbs and Bugel???

Fire Al Saunders? Why?

If you haven't gone to a game this year then I suggest you do. You'll realize that the problem isn't Al Saunders or Lloyd getting open.

It is Brunell's inability to make check downs. What you didn't watch last year? You didn't see us running that idiotic WR screen? Al wasn't here then.

You wanna blaim someone. Blaim Danny.

You have a proven coach playing GM and not coach.

An unproven GM Vinnie, playing racquetball partner.

A proven Off. Coordinator, who can't change the qb so he can't call the plays he wants.

And a Def. Coordinator referring to himself in the third person. I don't have a problem with that. His first sentence should be. "Gregg Williams is giving his paychecks to charity cause he hasn't earned them."

Let's be honest, it's the defense. No Prioleau, no Ryan Clark, no Lavar (who at least got the QB's attention), no Antonio Pierce, no pass rush. With a halfway decent defense, maybe this season is different.

Even so, you're still left with the contradiction of long-term planning versus short-term desire to win.

I guess the question on Saunders is whether or not his offense is in the long-term interest of the skins.

If you accept that Gibbs was interested in building an organization, then you can argue that having Saunders is part of that.

But where the inexplicable contradiction comes in is that you can't plan for the long term with a quarterback who is on his last legs.

AND, given any medium-term success, Saunders would be bound to jet to a head couaching position somewhere and take his offense with him (anyone remember Marvin Lewis?).

AND, given the lack of draft picks, it's hard to say this organization is really thinking long-term.

So yeah, I can see why people could be critical of Gibbs.

Ok, ok blame.

Skinz

You are my boy. But come now. Even you have to be upset with this season and what looks like many more years of being at the bottom of the NFC East.

I'm more than upset. But it's not Al Saunders fault. It's Gibbs' fault. It's Danny's fault. Don't blame Al.

This team needs a GM.
This team needs to think long-term.
This team needs a check to Gibbs' authority, to Danny's mettling, to Vinnie's incompetence.

I moved to DC in 1961 and very slowly became a skins fan. I remember multiple years of frustration with coaches like Otto Graham (who was a great quarterback and college coach but a bust as an NFL coach). Each year the skins had either an offense or a defense but never both at the same time. Although the team was always drafting high they very seldom chose wisely (Gary Beban?) with the exception of Charley Taylor and they originally drafter him as a running back. The rule was that you could usually root for individual players like Chris Hanburger or Bobby Mitchell to make up for the teams total deficiency.

I was at the first home game at old DC Stadium (RFK)on a Sunday that was so foggy you could not see the stadium from the front door of the DC Armory.

Then came Vince Lombardi (one respectable season and probably more if cancer hadn't ended his life.); followed by George Allen. George was a master at making everyone (both players and fans) care about winning or losing football games. That legacy seems to have lasted to this day and skins fans seem to care more than most about the fortunes of their team. When someone you care about lets you down you are really let down.

This season has reached the point where the skins can go no lower. They have neither an offense nor a defense and appear to have no hope of developing either.

I agree with some of the posted comments. Salary caps are really not reasons to let players with great team chemistry move on. Dale Lindsay now gets along well with all his linebackers but it sure has not improved the overall play at that position.

Joe Gibbs and his staff used to be the best 2nd half adjusters in the league; now the team can't play a second half. In yesterdays game they came out flat and dumb with predictable results. The game was over less than halfway through the third quarter.

I'm not sure what it takes to motivate a professional athlete anymore but Joe has not been able to do it consistently since his return. I do believe he can turn it around but not this season. We really have no offensive or defensive lines and that is where everything begins. With the time our O line gives a quarterback to throw even 3 yard outs are a problem. Conversely, opposing quarterbacks have 6 or 7 seconds to check out all their options before they are forced to throw.

Firing the offensive coordinator really worked for Arizona this week didn't it?

Frustration not relieved but here it is.

I return to you from a meditation retreat with the RZA, who by coincidence charges 20 Gs a session, the Genius and the Architect.

Being a Redskins fan is like having a son who is a drug addict. One day you're playing catch out in the front yard, laughing it up, giving him a sip of your beer. Next thing you know his door is always locked and he isn't in his room at 3AM.

"Little Timmy, you look like you lost 30 pounds and you have green rings around your eyes."

"Yeah, I haven't been sleeping much lately, dad."

"I bet you haven't..." Which then spirals into a shouting match with your wife crying, trying to separate the two of you.

Then things get better, he's in his room listening to music, he makes it for dinner. But you figure out it was all a lie when you find out your wallet's missing and he's passed out at some guy's house he met in Baltimore (terrible city). And then you lose to the Titans.

I just want my parade. They promise me one every year. But I will not fold. Today I was wearing a $1,200 Brooks Brothers suit on the bus with my Redskins cap (signed by LaVar) turned sideways listening to Damien Marley. WHAT! I love you Redskins. Let's just get ready for Dallas, you little sweethearts.

Glover Park, The Wizards, The Redskins and my kegarator: four things I rep to the death. BOOYAKASHOT!

John in Bluemont,

Whatever are you talking about? Did you see any of the preseason games? Campbell has a great arm - and he can run. The concern I believe they have with him is learning the offense/system - certainly not his arm strength.

Quotables from the Comcast Redskins Postgame Show:

[Ray Brown on Andre Carter] "I wouldn't have paid him half of what he got, coming from LB to DE -- and he lives in my neighborhood -- but I'm sorry, I wouldn't have done it."

[B-Mitch on Gibbs] "This is not the same Joe Gibbs that I played for."

[Ray and B-Mitch on Archabinguleta] (Ray)"A chump is a chump - doesn't matter of he's paid one dollar or a million dollars." (B-Mitch)"A chump is a chump."

The funny thing was that all 3 of these dudes agreed that the toughest task Gibbs has to handle over the next year is transitioning to a new QB. HELLO?! Does anyone in their right mind actually think that anybody other than Scott Brunell will be the QB in 07?

The Governor

Good to see you back in the house. Damn sad story you told. (lol)

Skinz I am with you brother and stated earlier. Al is not the problem.

Want to get upset?

We have been winning at halftime 6 of 7 games.

7 RB's rushed for 100 yards yesterday. Their respective teams went 6-1. The 1 you ask? Brian Westbrook. Took a 63 yard field goal to beat that.

Hey, Does anyone know what went on btwn ARE and B.Lloyd? Lloyd had to be held back after their exchange on the sideline and was pissed all throughout the rest of the game.

I just have one thing to say. We're going into a bye week 3 games out of first place, w/ 4 more division games to play. I would say this, out of everything, is the best thing we have going for us.

Wow. An Archubingus was had by all on Sunday. At the end of the first half, I say to my boy the Governor: 'Dude, we're up at halftime'...he just stares at me until I put my head down as we both knew what was coming.

I want you all to think of the 5 best teams in the NFL over the last 3 years. No wrong answer, just think of who is on the list. NE, Chicago, Seattle, Indy, and maybe Denver. The common thread for all those teams are the coaching/front office regimes are stable. Each squad has a few stars and pretty much the same coaching staff year in and out. In today's NFL, free agency makes it so hard to keep everyone together but what you can keep are coaches. As my mother used to say, 'you made your bed, now you sleep in it.' In Saunders we have the man with literally THE BEST offensive track record in the whole league. Every stop he makes, he has the #1 O (STL + KC). This should by him more than 7 weeks with bad personell in key spots (QB and the garbage O-line. Yes, garbage. They begged for that smashmouth style and you say how well that worked).

It also isn't like Saunders has had world beaters for QB's either. Kurt Warner and Trent Green are hardly Brady/McNabb/Peyton. So Haikuman, you have got to direct your attention elsewhere.

We literally have 0 depth. You're telling me that our D is screwed because 1 guy (Griffin) can't go? Or that we couldn't blitz through the first 5 games because 1 guy wasn't there in the 2ndary (Springs)?

The problem that we have is exceptionally simple. In bidding against ourselves and signing players to enormous deals (Archubingus, Randle El, Carter, Lloyd etc.) we do not cultivate talent within the organization, or shore up thin areas with quality vets. We're left, in key situations like on the 1st 3rd quarter drive yesterday with the following juggernauts on the field:

Ryan Boschetti, Troy Vincent, Demetric Evans, Anthony montgomery, Khary Campbell, and wholdman.org. I'm sure opponents are unable to sleep at night.

100%, this is the fault of not having a GM to make these kinds of personell moves. That is why we are bad. We have seen how well sweeping changes from year to year works as a franchise so please, cancel the Fire Al Saunders movement.

2-5.

Yeah Lisa, I saw him work against guys that are bagging groceries right now instead of being in NFL rosters. I also saw him at Auburn. The throws just have a touch too much arch on them. Jason's not a legit starting QB. He's probably serviceable coming off of the bench as a #2. On the flip side, I'm not a Brunell supporter. He's not a legit #1 anymore either. They're both mediocre, at best. Gibbs could have had Campbell in the 3rd round of the draft. Trading up was a waste. But then again, he also bid up for Brunell as a free agent when there weren't any other bidders. He could have had him for a bargain basement rate, but he just had to pay top retail just to make sure that he got him.

"Don't worry Cindy, I'm sure we'll clear 500 total tommorrow with all the angry fans."

Posted by: Megskin | October 22, 2006 06:02 PM

Good Job Meg! I am at 330 right now. 200 more to go!

Boofer-
Can you please send me a boo-hoo box? I'm at a loss for words. Btw, who was it that said "Nick Novak is clutch" and "Nick will go on the hall of fame," and all that other crap? The loss is certainly not his fault, but he kinda sucks...

Oh yeah, and if they were able to get Troy Vincent in on some packages yesterday, why the hell didn't they put in Fudge-ums? Is he the new Duckett? They gave Dominos multiple draft picks for that little cube of poop!!!

Aren't Gibbs and Brunell born again evangelical christians? Stay the Curse, this will just be a COMMA in the scheme of the Redskins history.

I have been watching the skins since 1980 so here are a few other "worst moments"

- Joey T's 1 yard punt.

- Marcus Allen's superbowl TD run.

- Jay Schroeder farmer snotting into the wind of the meadowlands for the shut-out loss to the Giants in NFC Championship game.

- Michael Westbrook tossing his helmet to lose a game.

- The Danny leading a decapitating of the best QB we have had since Rypien, Brad Johnson, by brining in locker room killer Jeff George.

- The signing of Dieon Sanders.

- The "most exspensive team in sports" losing season.

- The hiring of Steve Spurrier.

- The MNF loss to the Glenn Dickey lead Packers.

- Firing Marty after one year. And a year that might have shown more Redskins heart and pride since 1992 or after.

- The dirty contract hijinks with Lavar. Yes Postman is an idiot but a stupid move on the skins part in souring that relationship with petty clauses.

- Not keeping either Antonio Pierce or Fred Smoot.

- Drafting Desmond Howard.

- Drafting Heath Shuler (but GO Shuler for Congress!)

- Drafting michael westbrook.

- Running Stephen Davis, one of the best Skins of ALL TIME, out of town.

- Having the team/stadium fall out of Cooke family.

- Having stadium renamed to Fed Ex Field.

Gotta get back to work, but anyone wanna add to the list?!?!

Chris Larry

A kickoff from the 5 yard line? Is this a first for the NFL?

Apparently, Fudgems was in the same boat as Rocky McIntosh. He/She/It hasn't grasped the intricacies of the Lean Mean Grilliams Scheme. Of course, looking at "Can't Getta" Holdmann and Hari-Khary, apparently it's not as big of a point of contention as one might think.

"Gotta get back to work, but anyone wanna add to the list?!?!"

How about Joe T's infamous "Rocket Screen" in SB XVIII?

Excellent addition Notorious B.O.B.

Umm i think you guys are forgetting one very important one.

Gus Ferrotte's head butt.

Gus' headbutt was previously mentioned so I didnt double it up....but yeah maybe top 5 all time worst moments......

1) Firing Saunders is not the answer. That's just more change in a team the needs to stop changing.

2) Put in Campbell. This year is done. You either put him in and plan for the future with "the guy," or you admit that you F'ed up in picking him because he's not "the guy" that you thought he was going to be.

3) "...what do these guys do well? What's their hallmark?"

The 2006 Washington Redskins are great at sucking me back in just enough to make it hurt when they collapse. I had zero expectations going into the Indy game, and then they hung in there for the first half. I got excited. Big mistake...

FlimFlam-
Good point my friend. Hopefully after the bye week we will see Campbell, McIntosh AND Fudgeums crack the lineup.

Don't tell me that firing Saunders is the answer. An underrated, arena-league QB won a Superbowl with Saunders in the first year. Clearly, Snyder, Gibbs, and Cerato tried to recreate the 1999 Rams. The 'Skins are not the "Greatest Show on Turf," but it's not because of a problem with Saunders.

Here is a rule about developing talent: never pay a kid a lot of money for doing something that he intrinsically enjoys. He then learns to do that thing for money, stripping all of his joy out of that activity.

Most NFL rookies are paid relatively little money and are hungry to prove themselves. They play with emotion and abandon. After winning their championships elsewhere, these players swing over to DC to pad their retirement accounts.

They know that they will not be held accountable for giving up on plays and making bonehead personal fouls. Since many of them have already won their rings and their bank accounts are overflowing, they smile and chat on the sidelines as their season slips away.

disappointed

" An underrated, arena-league QB won a Superbowl with Saunders in the first year"

That QB had an arm. Brunell well you've seen him since he been here. I am stated it right here and right now. If gives brings Brunell out against Dallas. I am done with football all together for 2006.

I would like to know why, on every 3rd and 8, they throw a 5-yard pass in the flat! Is this the playcall or is Brunell just scared to throw it downfield?
P Diddy: You forgot about the Redskins' world championships in 1937 and 1942. Come to think of it, Sammy Baugh could start at QB against Dallas!

I heard this morning on 980 that Grilliams said that Rocky was having a hard time picking up his assignments in practice. A very hard time. I don't know if it's true but that is what they said. So don't count on him anytime soon.

I also heard that Cambell isn't going in. I am as dejected as I've been since Gibbs came back.

ArtMonk -- I feel ya bro and I don't disagree with some of the points you made. All I am saying is that the dance ain't quite over and we don't have to stay with the ugly girl we drunkenly asked to the Prom. I agree with all your points about the need for the GM and all the problems that have gotten the Skins to where they are NOW. But you can't go back and change ANY of those things NOW, so you are faced (in my mind) with 2 options for THIS season:

1) Bag the dance all together and go home and work plans for next year's Homecoming. (Bench #8, start JC, keep working on Saunders system and take your lumps for the good of next season.) Maybe next time you won't go on some drunken binge and decide Ugly Betty is the Prom Queen in disguise.

or

2) Try to salavage THIS season by playing to the strengths of the players you have -- players which, as many have said, do NOT fit with the strengths of the Saunders scheme. Clearly, Gibbs has already made it known he is not bagging the season -- so change what you can change to give yourself what little shot you may have. And ok ok ok -- fine, perhaps the Fire Al Saunders Movement doen't have to be literal, but if you are going to stick with option 2 like St Joe has ordained, he MUST neuter Saunders and shift back to a more Gibbsian style. And either let #8 chuck it down field (if he even can) or give JC a shot.

What I don't understand (and Troy Aikman also discussed late 4th qtr) is why we didn't play JC when down 3 TDs with only 4 minutes left to play?

Gibbs sending a message now that there will NOT be a QB change?

Did anyone take note of the comment by Williams? Making a big point that Manning was what makes the Colts offense go.

Maybe his way of urging pulling the plug on Brunnell? Granted he hasn't got much D this year and has his own issues to deal with, but the last two have at least been very good so he does have some cred to talk about it. And he still is the assitant head coach so it could be in his venue to bring that up. I'd love to be a fly on the wall at this weeks coaches meetings.

Haiku: My reading comprehension scores were well below the national average, so please don't take this the wrong way but I was lost in that little laguna that was your metaphor. I also struggled with proms and formal dances...

Who is the ugly girl? Is it Saunders? Who's the girl that told me she couldn't go but then ended up going with another dude? Or was that just me? Cindy, if we had a blom (blog prom), would you go with me?

The Colts use the Cover-2. Brunell threw underneath because that receiver was open. If that receiver makes one player miss, he easily has the first down and much more, because the safeties are trailing receivers 20 yards down field.

The problem was not Brunell. The problem was consistently being 3rd and 8. First down and second down inefficiency was the problem...

Here is a typical 3rd quarter drive...

First down...incomplete/CP gets stuffed.
Second down...CP gets 2 yards
Third down...8 yards to go and the Cover-2 blankets receivers, leaving Betts open for the dink.

He cannot elude tackles. Punt.

X.Hog,

I could be wrong but I think there is some dumb rule, where in games like that, a QB has to be injured to be taken out of the game. Thats why Brunell was still in there. Am I right about this?

Rich,

Dunno but Grilliams shouldn't be worried about the O. He should be worried about his D. Cause it's horrible.

Haiku,

My man, no more kool-aid for you. We'd have to go 3-1 just to get back to 5-6. So that we could go back and pull a 5-1 run so we'd have a SHOT at a wildcard.

What about this season, this team and this coaching staff makes you think any of that is a remote possibility?

X.Hog

Campbell was the third QB. Only able to be used if the first two QB's go down.

Skinz you are my dog, but you could have saved that for tomorrow. Throw me a bone here.

Every game Campbell is designated the 'emergency QB'. He is not counted on the 'active' roster list for that game.

So, for him to get in that game, both QBs have to get injured for him to get in. Once he (Campbell) does, I believe they are not allowed to put back in the game the QBs he replaced.

Mr. Snyder has turned the Redskins into a business, and business executives do not change their business plan, especially when they earn guaranteed record incomes for the next 30 years.

The Redskins' locker room has turned into the corporate board rooms of Enron and WorldCom.

Keep your names on that long, long waiting list for season tickets, Washingtonians. As long as you keep paying, the corporate "players" have no desire to change -- business as usual!

Cindy

Where is JLC? It is close to 11 AM and no words from him. Did this latest Brunell showing killed his spirit? Because it has mines.

Art: It's called cramming fast typing here in between work stuff. LOL Equals mixed metaphors, poor imagery, and arguments supported insuffiently.

Skinz: I've only sipped the Kool-Aid. I am 90% certain that this seson is lost, with the 10% only because of that miracle 62 yarder that beat the Eagles. I am just not sure that keeping Saunders -- or less literally, his system -- will do any good even for next year considering how locked down the Skins are with making any major changes to get other players who might fir Saunders system better. And yes, I agree that all this could change IF JC is that type of QB that could make this work, make Moss, B Llyod, etc into the old Rams WR Corps....but we aint gonna know, are we? So we end up going into next season with a system we don't trust, either an even OLDER #8 or an unknown QB, and essentially the same type of players (especially our )-line) better suited to a power game, not Saunders finesse gimicks.

So, in short, I'd rather do a more minor change by going BACK to Gibbsian mode than continue down this massive playbook overhaul that will require even MORE change to work in the future.

I don't think I am being highly unreasonable and intelligent people can come to different conclusions.

Here's a little add-on to that list of the Skins worst blunders...

Letting go of David Akers...while we've gone through every mediocre kicker in the league, David "Green" Akers has been legit for years in Philly after we let him go...

I heard this morning on 980 that Grilliams said that Rocky was having a hard time picking up his assignments in practice. A very hard time. I don't know if it's true but that is what they said. So don't count on him anytime soon.

Actually, that might be a GOOD quality to have. Supposedly the defense out there 'gets their assignments', but it hasn't panned out for much more than dooly, anyway. We have smart linebackers that can't tackle. We have smart linemen that can't break through a standard pocket blocking scheme. We have a smart secondary that offers up more holes than a pincushion in a porcupine knitting society.

As to tossing Al Saunders, I say let's not. He does have some talent in him. Not to mention, we really don't need to have another 2004 Season, Take 3. It'll do this team no good, whatsoever.

I think it's really all down to BenchMark's play, at this point. Our O-line looks horrible, because they have to block for a guy that dances outside protection like he was auditioning for an off-Broadway rendition of A Chorus Line. Our runningbacks look horrible because regardless of how much trickeration you use, Clinton Portis can't run through 7-8 guys at the line, which happens when you fail to prove you have a legitamite down filed threat. Our wide receivers can't make plays when Benchmark is wasting valuable moments when they're open by dropping back 7-8 steps instead of 3.
And ANY defense is bound to eventually give way, when they have no rest.

Campbell may or may not be the answer - I'm liable to believe those of you that say he's not, but one can hope. But we must find out. Unfortunately, the only way BenchMark would be relegated downwards is if he becomes man enough to tell Coach Gibbs that he's unable to perform at the proper level. And that's not likely to happen.

No one ever accused me of being intelligent though. I mean I did give us 17 games in my synopsis so I wouldn't pay too much attention to my posts Haiku.

I completely agree with your conclusions about "systems" this is where GM's come in. GM's decide the system. They then hire a coach and go in a direction.

We are totally Jekyll and Hyde. Our players last year seemed to thrive in the smash mouth role and yet we abandoned it for Saunders. So here we are and if we had a long-term plan laid out by a GM who wasn't 68 and trying to win now he's recognize that, bite the bullet and see what we had in JC.

Unfortunately as I said we have a proven coach playing GM and not coach who wishes to win now. When our O stumbled last year in the passing game he assumed it was the recievers and not the QB. We how have two wide recievers that don't get the ball unless Saunders basically designs plays specifically for them.

I mean did you see the first two passes yesterday? They were to Lloyd. Schemed by Saunders. That is totally against Saunders scheme where their is no "Primary" reciever. Yet now we have a scheme and an OC who are forced to change everything for a broken down qb.

/end rant

Of course this season is lost. The Redskins can't even do simple thing correctly, such as tackling and throwing downfield. They play the Eagles, Cowboys and Panthers after the bye.

I've read some arguments about Campbell's preparedness and inability to handle the NFL game. I say we hold of criticism of him until he gets a shot to throw a pass in an actual NFL game. If he can't get it done this year, then draft someone else. But don't ride Brunell to a 4-12 season and hope Campbell can play next year. Better to find out now.

Any overhaul of this team, though, needs to begin with the offensive and defensive lines. A poor secondary can be masked by a solid pass rush, just see the Colts, Giants and Cowboys as examples.

Still second-guessing the Rogers pick over Merriman?

Merriman just got suspended for steriod use.

Page 701 of the sacred play book:

"Yellow 30"

1) Rip the helmet off the opponent's QB.
2) Bend said QB into unnatural angles.
3) Drive said QB's head into the turf.

Ooops, I got it wrong. That was a Defensive play!

Quick note about the Frost punt. That was the right call after being backed up to the 10 or whatever yardline it was after the offsides call.

Punting the ball is the right thing to do when backed up that far because the superior hang time allows the coverage to get down the field, negating a big return. The sad fact is that Frost hit one of the best punts I've seen -- period -- in a long time. It went as far as Novak's previous kickoff with a few more seconds of hangtime.

And then the shabingus happened. You know you done messed up when you get a personal foul, and Mike Sellers is the guy holding you back.

To summarize, here are how I would rank the top 5 'Skins moments of all time:

5. Joe Theisman's 1 yard punt
4. Gus Frerotte's head butt
3. "Rocket Screen", Super Bowl XVIII
2. Jeff George, Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders don the burgundy and gold
1. Kicking off from the 5 yard line after an Unsportsmanlike Conduct penalty on the punter

We cannot go lower. Can we?

Chris Larry -- some good points. I might add that Westbrook not just cost the Redskins the game in that tie vs. the Giants, but if the Redskins had won they would have made the playoffs.

I might also add some more recent ones:

-- A 7-1 start in 1996 and a 2-6 finish to miss the playoffs.

-- Bad snap in Tampa playoff game in 2000 costs Redskins a FG attempt.

-- Casually dismissing Brian Mitchell for that idiot has-been Deion Sanders.

Marty doing everything he could to humiliate Darrell Green and force him to retire before the 2001 season.

Never having a FG kicker worht snot since
Lohmiller left.

Oh, the memories ...

And then the shabingus happened.

That's the year in a nutshell.

This has been a season full of shabingi. One after the other after the other.

How can I forget letting Boomer pass for 500 yards on us in '96 in an OT loss against the woebegotten Cardinals when a win locks in a playoff spot.

I gotta stop this, I'm getting surly. J Peso rescue me!

As I recall, Sanders only gave up one TD in '01. The 'Skins could use a Sanders right about now. Why no love? Is it because he killed the 'Skins so many years before? Or because he showed how much The Danny will overpay players?

REDSKINS, WHY DO YOU BREAK MY HEART!?!

Skinz

Finally someone is seeing the light. Someone went in the past and looked at what the real problem is. Last year during the playoff what was the main problem. Offense was unable to move the ball when D put 7-8 men in the box to stop CP. Everyone thought the problem was not having another WR. You brought in two good WR but the problem is still the same. Therefore you have to look at what was there last season that is still here now that causing the problem. Brunell!!! We all see why can't Coach Joe.

3 yard pass on 3rd and 8. i'd rather take a 25 yard incompletion

oops, Sanders played for the Burgundy and Gold in 2000. Marty scared him into retirement in '01.

As I recall, Sanders only gave up one TD in '01. [...] Why no love?

Screw him. He gets no love because he came here and couldn't cover anybody; people threw against him all day long like he was a g-damn joke. Who gives a rats a$$ how many TDs he gave up?

I am very happy the Skins lost yesterday, realistically they have no chance of Winning the Super Bowl there O-Line and D-Line starters are okay but still get blown up too often, and we all know that some of them will get hurt. We have some good young playmakers, and we need to really look at starting JC at QB. I would much rather look at these games as the future, because the past is over.

There's only one thing left to do:

BOYCOTT THE REDSKINS!

I know, it's tough to do. For me, a Redskins fanatic since I can remember (I have autographs going back to George Allend days), giving up the Skins would be like a junkie giving up his smack. But what else can we do? How can we keep giving money and support to this organization and making Dan Snyder an even richer man? I am so thoroughly disgusted with this entire organization that I think the only solution is to

BOYCOTT THE REDSKINS!

Ever since Snyder bought the team, this organization has tried to take the easy, quick-fix route instead of slow, patient building up of a team. Hiring Gibbs was the same thing. Instead of doing what Jack Kent Cooke did--finding a young, up-and-coming coach, Snyder went out and bought an old legend. Sure, it worked for the Rams with Vermeil, but it aint working here. This organization is deeply disfunctional, from top to bottom.

Trying to figure out how to make the Skins a winning organization is like trying to figure out how to solve our problems in Iraq. There are no good options at this point--a clear sign of failure by those in charge. It doesn't matter if we start Campbell, fire Saunders, run the ball more, or any of the other things suggested. We're still going to be a loser team.

And here's a newsflash: next offseason we make a bunch of changes and everybody in Redskinsland will be thinking that this will be the year. It's like Charlie Brown thinking Lucy's gonna let him kick the ball. It aint gonna happen!

So, until this organization sucks it up, gets rid of all the overpaid and underachieving coaches and players, and starts to rebuild from the ground up (that means using draft picks, not trading them away for big names), then we're going to continue to be a bad-to-mediocre team. In the meantime, I suggest that we

BOYCOTT THE REDSKINS!

I don't understand the criticisms against Brunell's arm.

Brunell threw a bullet to Moss in the OT win. His arm was particularly lively in the Houston win after a week of missing practice, due to a nasty cut on the elbow.

We should see a strong arm again after the bye. Perhaps Brunell, at 36, should not be taking as many reps during practice. At worse, his arm strength is inconsistent. Brunell has lost confidence in the O-line and his ducks are due to happy feet, which only have 9 toe nails. Is it Brunell's fault that Freeney was killing Samuels with the speed rush?

The Dirtbags are not getting it done.

I don't post here often, but yesterday's game was my last and final letdown. I am, and always will be, a Skins fan. But I'm not wearing my jersey any more on Sundays. I'm not eagerly watching the clock on Sunday afternoon and getting those excited butterflies before the game. I'm not emotionally investing myself in any more of these pathetic debaucles we call "games". And you want to know why that is? The players on this team don't care either. Guess what, we're idiots for buying tickets, jerseys, football packages on TV, etc, etc, etc. Tying ourselves, inexplicably, to players who don't care about us. They don't care if they win or lose- you can see it on their faces almost the entire game. No one gets mad (save one or two), no one gets fired up. None of them care. They take home paychecks every 2 weeks which are six figures- because we are suckers. Because we think, for as much as we care about this team and maniacally pull for them to win; that they'll be doing the same for us and playing their hearts out. But they're not. They had a 14-13 lead on Indy at the half. If that was MY team, and I was on that team, I would have been beside myself in that locker room- screaming, breaking things- "let's get this thing on, we've got them on the ropes." But the usual happened- we let them score like 20 unanswered points. And yeah, it's Peyton & Co.- they're great, no doubt. But I saw not one play out there resembling anything I'd call effort. I saw missed tackles, blown assignments, and a general malaise and utter lack of caring. I saw dump screens to Betts on 3rd & 8's for 3 yard gains. I saw stupid penalties like using the goal post for celebration and taking off the helmet. These are all marks of a team that doesn't care. Their paychecks are the same, win or lose, so why bother truly giving a sh*t. They don't care about us, otherwise we'd see some blood, sweat, and tears. We'd see some frustration rather than "our guys held together" every d*mn week. This is no "team", this is bunch of millionaires who can run fast and bench 500 pounds- and wouldn't give you the time of day if they saw you on the street. For that I say, I'm disgusted. Our team had some heart last year to win 5 straight and make the playoffs. But this team is nothing. I can deal with losing if you know you're team is out there fighting their hearts out. But I can't deal with a team that puts in enough effort to be leading at most halftimes and then just give up. I don't care any more. This team won't break my heart anymore.

It is one thing to play hard and lose. It is totally demoralizing as a fan to watch this team in such disarray for 10 years no matter what we do.

I cannot imaging enduring another 10 years of this, as I assume we must with such a young owner.

I never thought I would say this, but I am getting very TIRED of being a Redskins fan after 25 years.

People want to know why Joe Gibbs is so loyal to Brunell. Did anyone hear his press conference? He is, evidently, crazy or senile or both. Why else would he take the time, after his team got embarassed again, to express regret for not stopping to thank the well-wishers as they left for Indy? I bet he paced the sidelines thinking, "Oh, god, please forgive me, for i have sinned." Oh, god, how can I make it up to those grateful fans?" He couldn't wait for the game to end so he could appologize.

"It's like Charlie Brown thinking Lucy's gonna let him kick the ball. It aint gonna happen!"

I think this is the perfect illustration for the Redskins offseasons... hhahaha

Nice one, jakeweed, but I will never boycott the Skins. That's what it means to be a fan. You suffer through the hard times with your team.

Imagine being an eagles fan. They've never won a Superbowl... ouch.

HAHHAHAHAHA! That little fact NEVER FAILS to make me feel a little better.

Out played, out hustled, out coached. To quote DDM "The party's over"

That was me with the Eagles trivia... sorry.

i was so miserable watching the game i drank myself until i puked, wasting a good bottle of cabernet sauvignon :-(

Quick - someone post their predictions on what GIBBS is going to say during his press conference.

"Played our guts out"
"We are in this together"
"Alot of character ..."
etc.
etc.

Brunell: "We're a better team than 2 and 5"

Uhm no. You played it; you earned it.

In the column of "worst" moments has anyone mentioned The Rumble At Ashburn, you know -- Davis vs. Westbrook?

And the entire Petitbon season has to be included, although this one is looking pretty similar....

sorry GMoney, nothin here to save you. In my mind there is only one reason to believe they won't start Campbell in the next game: He's no good. If he were, he'd be playing or part of the conversation, but I can only surmize he doesn't know the offense or just flat out can't play. This is all soooo sad.
My contribution to the worst moments is the Eagles "lateral" of a Riggs fumble turned into a game winning touchdown. THAT reminds me, could we get Randel Cunningham?

Two Words: Tony Banks.

JPeso

I disagree with you on Campbell. Coach Joe histroy shows he is very loyal to his vetern QB.We really can't say Campbell is good or just out right sucks until he gets in a game. If he does sucks then let's see what he can do now. Not next year or the middle of next year.

Hi Jason,

It really seems to comedown to the 'skins having a faulty philosphy in player acquisition. Is there anyway you can point out to Gibbs the failed free agent acquisitions and the good players we've let go, and just ask him or beg of him to hire a competent GM (e.g. Ron Wolf)?
Thanks

Snyder - please move the team to LA so the suffering will end.

Please no one mention the stupid 700 page playbook - How many football players have read 700 pages in their life?

Gibbs please, for the love of God, stop saying ...our guts out; up here; a ton; great bunch of guys.

Dear Joe Gibbs, Al Saunders, Gregg Williams, etc.

Beat Dallas and all will be forgiven.
Seriously guys... BEAT DALLAS.

I guess a lot of confusion over wanting Campbell to start revolves around the idea that we're going to somehow save this season. Unless everyone else in the division decides to start shabingally self-detonating, there is no saving it. Right now, it's down to looking at what we have to rebuild on.

Yes, Jason Campbell might end up sucking. Seeing the spotty draft history this team has compiled since the start of the decade, he could be the next Danny Wuerffeless. But we have to know soon. BenchMark has only proven that his unwillingness to sustain a hit compromises his ability to stay in the pocket, plant and throws like this offense needs him to. There is no salvaging this season; with that in mind, why would you need to see BenchMark playing with additional futility?

Jason's job isn't to tell Gibbs anything. It's to find and report the story.

We fans have a voice every time we choose to enter the stadium and pay "Mr." Snyder his parking and concession dollars. Other than that, in that town, with that waiting list, we're screwed.

Personally, I'm done going to games. DC is a dull town anyway, so wasting a weekend there, and enduring the morons at the TSA to get there, and putting up with drunk and obnoxious people in the stands, and then having to deal with the crappy product and effort the team puts on the field...well, I've had it. I'll watch on teevee and that's pretty much it.

Low flickering flame
Golden passion near drowning
In gimicky wax.

Not even Jerry Bruckheimer could spin this in a positive light. Those guys should be doing up-downs til they puke today.

Fudge-ums was a last minute scratch. They couldn't get a helmet on his cube-shaped head of poop. The Danny is going to invest several million in scientific research to get a league approved "Fudge-ums" helmet created. Money well spent. If Pepsi Machine can do dress out, by golly, Fudge-ums will dress out.

JM, I'm not saying they shouldn't give him a shot, I just tend to think that if they thought he was any good, he'd atleast be elevated to number 2. But they are doing everything in their power to assure that Campbell won't see the light of day anytime soon. A waste, I agree. Loyalty or not, there is something they're not telling us about him.

I support the BOYCOTT the Redskins movement... but we gotta wait until AFTER the Dallas game. If we beat Dallas, then the season isn't a total loss.
BUT, If we lose to Dallas, then we begin the BOYCOTT:
I suggest organizing a bon fire in the Fed Ex parking lot where we burn all our merchandise that makes the Danny so rich. Then, Boycott everything Redskins: do not buy any merchandise, do not go to the games, do not even watch the games on TV.

At least we have next season to look forward to; maybe we can get a great draft pick if we keep losing games.

Oh yea I forgot. We traded our first round pick to the Broncos for TJ Duckett. Well he's been great, right?

I went to a party on Friday night and tried the little cubes of poop. I have to say...damn good. Really, really good. Deep fried brownie covered in chocolate sauce. Someone has to tell me how this is wrong in any way.

JPeso

If it is, then admit your mistake and move on. Or put Collins in something other than Brunell. As stated earlier in the day. If Brunell is the starter for Dallas I am done for the year.

Hard to disagree JM.

We Want DALLAS

What makes you think we have a chance to win the Dallas game? Or any other game that is left. Everyone knows put 7-8 men in the box and stop CP. Make the old man beat you which he is not able to do. Proven fact since last year.

I live in Denver and I must say I disagree with all this talk of the Redskins needing a true GM. They've done a marvelous job of building a perennial playoff team - the Broncos!

As a Skins fan my biggest worry now is that the Snyder will feel the need for another veteran QB next year and trade his remaining draft picks for Jake Plummer. Who knows, maybe the Broncos will throw in the always hurt Courtney Brown. Yikes!

I truly don't think that JC is the answer to turn things around this season. I think Brunell is still playing well enough not to lose games, but that is the problem. They are playing not to lose. People keep talking about an identity. That is there identity...they play NOT TO LOSE, and we all know what happens then....YOU LOSE. If JC is the "QB of the future" don't you think they should give him some playing time before the draft? We have no idea what he can do. Let's find out what we have with him and start building from there. I still have a lot of respect for Brunell and I guess he would be the one that would turn this season around....but do we really want them to turn a 2-5 season into maybe a 9-7 (most likely a 6-10) season and still miss the playoffs? For God's sake, let's start planning for the future for once and see what we have with JC. What's the worst that can happen? Really?

They sure played their guts out.
I was on the road yesterday, did St. Joe actually say that Brunell would start next, or did no one ask him? I think that JC has been late to the choir meetings lately, that's why he hasn't gotten a shot.
Brunnellingus is always on time and brings fresh baked cookies.

"People keep talking about an identity. That is there identity...they play NOT TO LOSE"

Huh? What ar......you know what. It's too easy.

I hate watching games that leave you wanting to puke with a FULL QUARTER to play! Yes, BBM is a good/great qb, but seriously, our secondary is the laughing stock of the league. Glad to see Springs back in there locking down the corner....or getting beat badly for a td.

who wants my season tix?

rade his remaining draft picks for Jake Plummer

Will he throw over the middle? Will he trust a pass, other than a dump off or screen, to anyone other than Moss and Cooley? If so, let's get him. Better him than unnamed the soon-to-be-multi-millionaire-player-that-is-great-this-year-but-will-stink-next-year that we are bound to trade our remaining picks away for. And since he is a veteran and really fights his guts out, no doubt Gibbs will play him.

I'm joking, sort of.

Vegas Baby - I have been waiting my entire adult life. Really. I was 15 when we last went to the Super Bowl. Watching the Skins in my college years was painful. The revolving door of coaches and players and offensive and defensive schemes and quick-fix solutions and money, money, money has just totally demoralized me as a fan. I envy teams like Indy and New England, and heck, even the Giants for what they have. At least the Giants have young blood at QB, a fairly cohesive D-line, and show some promise to win the division. I might actually watch them tonight to see if they can knock Dallas down a peg or two. It's gotta be better than watching the Redskins take a first-half lead most weeks and totally blow it in the second half. Bram Weinstein said that we are 1 - 3 this season when we are LEADING at the half. Huh??? What dystopic alternate universe is this anyway? You're not supposed to BLOW a first half lead 75% of the time!

at 2-5, they suck at "PLAYING NOT TO LOSE"

So what are the Redskins going to do with their bye week? I think a trip to Six Flags would do well to loosen up the boys in burgundy and really get them back to having fun. It worked for Coach Bombay in Mighty Ducks... oh wait, that wasn't real. Shoot.

Those 2 seperate 2 minute COlt touchdown drives in the 3rd quarter were proof enough to me that the game really isn't that complicated. If the defense doesn't know what you are going to do because you can do ANYTHING, then you can score.

We have a limited slate. Sure, we have some sweet creative plays, 'Look, its Randle El in the backfield...that's crazy'. Teams know that we cannot go down the field so it is easy to defend us unless we are executing perfectly. Perfect execution is hard to do (unless you are in Houston).

Everyone likes to bash Snyder, and I guess I do it too but I don't think you can fault him on this year. He spends $. he asked his guys (Gibbs et al) who they needed and then went out and got them. If he didn't make efforts with all the profits, then I think you can be pissed. He learned his lesson with the Deion/Bruce Smith stuff in terms of him doing personell decisions and he leaves it up to Gibbs and company (which is another issue altogether).

I don't think boycotting your beloved team is the answer. If you only support when they are winning then you are a bama, a fairwheather bama. Don't be a bama.

One comment:
If Campbell sucks, how do they know Campbell sucks? Isn't Brunell getting ALL the reps in practice? I thought I read that several times in the paper when the season began?

If he's not even getting reps in practice, except on look team, then it's no wonder they won't consider putting him in.

So maybe we should all be calling for Campbell to "get a couple snaps in practice."

It'd be a start right?

putting up with drunk and obnoxious people in the stands, and then having to deal with the crappy product and effort the team puts on the field...well, I've had it

Well P. Diddy: now you'll have drunk, obnoxious and angry fans as well. And besides a few players (Portis, The Reapear, Moss, ARE), I don't see any effort being put out. Those guys alone can't carry a whole team that isn't trying.

I don't know where Gibbs sees people 'really fightin' their guts out'; must be the team across the sidelines he's looking at.

I made Fudg'ems in the refrigerator?

And ate a whole Domino's Pizza?

"If you only support when they are winning then you are a bama, a fairwheather bama."

Amen, ArtMonkToTheSticks, amen. I miss early 90's slang.

Bandwagon...

When you were enjoying your childhood and the Redskins winning ways, what kind of teams were Indy and New England? Before 5-7 years ago, what kind of teams were Indy and New England. (do you still envy them?) Every team in the league goes through tough times. Some teams (Cardinals, Falcons, New Orleans) never really get good times. The Redskins have indeed been in a drought and I too have enjoyed too few winning seasons as an adult fan, but before you start being jealous of now successful programs, take a look at the 49ers, the Cowboys, the RAIDERS FOR GOD SAKE (nice win Al) and Green Bay. Were in the same boat as them at the moment.

P

I am only looking forward to the Reaper laying the wood on T.O. again. (did you see that goalline hit and the return fumble hit? reaper is a beast) After that if Brunell is the starter I am with you. Done with football for the year. No more watching my heart get rip out. At least you guys get to drink. Think of us that don't.

Dorf,

Drought? This is like being a 30 year old virgin and saying it's just a drought. No this is decline. Flat out decline.

AMD2dsticks and Bucktown,

That's just triflin joe.

"The Redskins took a beating by the market today as it dropped to 2-5. Chairman Joe Gibbs announced the immediate resignation of CEO Mark Brunell, who will be replaced in the interim by Jason Campbell while the Board searches for fresh, outside talents.

In the mean time, Tony Kornheiser, a Wall Street pro sports analyst, has downgraded the Skins stock from Neutral to Underperformed ... "

Unfortunately, the NFL doesn't work like that!

Dorf/Art Monk

I don't believe anyone is saying they will no longer be a skins fan.(I love the 90's slang as well) But what we are saying if we are going to lose then do it with the young players. Lose rebuilding your team. Not with what is out there now.Or at least that is what I am saying. I go back to Coach Allen days. My father every week would have my brother and I watching the game.(how my brother turn out to be a Dallas fan is beyond me) So, I am in good and bad. But I am not going to watch an old guy week in and week out do what I expect a rookie to