Springs and Jansen will definitely be interesting/sticky negotiations. Brunell's would be simple if Coach Gibbs didn't have this crazy love affair with him. The appropriate negotiation would be: "Mark, we're giving you the veteran's minimum to come back and hold the clipboard. If you don't like it, happy retirement."

JaLa,

With the skins current cap situation, who has more leverage the player or the team. I can probbally answer the question by saying it depends on the player, but specifically in springs case who has the upper hand?

I don't foresee Brunell's situation being "sticky" - he said at the end of the season he was willing to restructure and wants to stay with the team. Springs also said he was open to "discussing" it....don't know about Jansen.

seriously...Mark..we need a new holy water boy on the sideline. Bum knee and surgically repaired shoulder? C'mon..the guy's like a broken down christian cyborg.

Although...Gibbs might be appealing to the league to make the bounce pass legal.

As it gets down to getting under the cap time , I will pass along a phrase to keep in mind "Root for the uniforms not the players" Don't fall in love with any of these guys they all will go eventually and everyone is expendable.

Horrific move. A 30-something gunner on the punt team is exactly what this team needs to spend 1mm/year on. Another example of an emotional decision that is detrimental to the team. Those resources shouldn't be spent on the fifth receiver, they should be spent on defensive depth...

I truly hope that Springs, Brunell, Jansen and company dig their heels in and REFUSE to negotiate with the team. At a certain point, Gibbs needs to be shown that he needs to make CHOICES and sacrifice. The brain trust needs to feel the pain that results from their profligate ways...

wise words indeed Old School... especially for skins fans

Ah, the money moving time of the year. I believe I now know what a core Redskin is.

Restructure your existing deal, you can stay. Brunell, should be ready to give back as much as possible. Springs is a tough one, with seemingly little other options.

I worry about Jansen, who unlike Springs, will play hurt, and never complains. He seems like a good locker room guy, but let's face it, winning a championship here, before he retires, does not look too likely.

if we release these players to free agency, do we eat the salaries, which will affect the cap? Jansen and Daniels are right now irreplaceable...sign them, don't even play with low balling them. if we lose them, fire the guy negotiating....

"At a certain point, Gibbs needs to be shown that he needs to make CHOICES and sacrifice."

Long time since I've posted on here, but this one got my attention. I agree with TB, but I'll take this a step further.

Who cares if they let those guys go? Even Jansen has lost a step, as documented by other scouts, coaches, ect...

You just said it Jason, the team was 5-11 and most of if not all of those guys are WAY past thier prime.

Get some young guys that want to play. The problem is the Skins have NO draft picks.

This team will lose again next year because management here is terrible. Let them all go, the Skins will be better becasue of it.

- Ray

If you don't think Thrash is worth $1M to play great special teams and make clutch catches then you don't watch the Redskins.

Remember a couple months ago, the "unsung heroes" discussion? Here was the short list: "Sellers, Thrash, end of list". Good job signing Thrash.

Can someone help me out with this...
Why are we talking about contract negotiations with Daniels, Wynn, and Brunell?
All 3 should be cut... does it somehow save cap room to keep a player with a restructured contract rather than cut them? That doesn't sound logical to me... what am I missing here?

Jason - are the skins trying to redo the contracts completely and get the players at a lower price? Or are they converting non-guaranteed money to bonus' (guaranteed money) to alleviate the cap? It ought to be the former for Brunell and the latter for Jansen and Springs. That would make the Brunell negotiations "sticky" but shouldn't for the other two (players don't typically turn down guaranteed money - signing bonus')

While the Cowboy's potential hiring of Norv is amusing considering his previous failures (Skins and Raiduhs) don't you know he would just love to be able to stick it to Snyder twice a year - like the way he did with the Raiders last(?)year and the way Shanahan does to Al Davis every year.

Luv how all you Redskins homers -- or Gibbs homers, to be more exact -- site Norv Turner as a failure here. Yet, Gibbs has been just as bad, hell let's face it a lot worse.

I don't think Norv is leaving SF. They just offered him a boatload of cash to stay as the O.C.

Hopefully he's learned by now that he's not H.C. material.

Jeff Hayes..."christian cyborg" you always bring the comedy heat!

TB: Your complaining about the Thrash move, c'mon!

I say if you can get Daniels cheaper its worth it...Wynn...pull a Ray Brown and add him tom coaching staff....what one more?

Jansen, spring its the right move to negotiate and see if you can make ikt happen...the Skins are good at tweaking the salary cap....

F Norv

I am thoroughly disappointed in Gibbs 2.0 especially in his dealings with the QB position. He has made the playoffs 1 time in 3 years and has a history of success. Norv only made it 1 time in 7 years and has a career reconrd or 58-82-1. So Norv sucks worse, much worse.

I had a dream that Norv Turner was hired as our QB Coach and I woke up thinking it was true for like my 1st 10 mins I was up. I couldn't believ it. I was scared as shiiii. That was prob from Watching Saw III last night though...

Hey "He might of stunk but grandpa smells just as bad"

Have some frigging respect man, 1. Gibbs still is a legend and 2. as a "grandpa" he is experencing some hardtimes so lay off fool

Ray

I could not agree more. Our core group is comming off a 5-11 are 22--27. We need about 40 new "core redskins" over the next 2 years. Jason Campell right now is about the only core guy this team has. (I exagerate but only a little) Hope he becomes the man, build all around him.I know its not practicle to get rid of everyone, thats just about what i would try and do over the next few years.

If you could turn back the clock and say this the plan B era how many guys on this roster would you protect. My list is pretty short.

Campell
Moss
Cooley
Betts
Samuels
Washington
Grif
Taylor (just because of potential not performance)

There is your core group. We need younger, faster, hungrier cheaper. As you will see who your left guard is or right tackle, center,weakside linebacker is etc, etc, etc, really doesn't amount to much over time because every three or four years you change these positions to new guys. That being said you can not I repeat cannot have terrible people players on roster ie Holdman, Brunell, Rumph again etc etc. We have way to many "just Guys" on our team. So my point is they all can be replaced, as long the replacement can play and that certainly doesn't mean Pro Bowler at every position, just younger cheaper hungrier everywhere.Pressure is on to find them anywhere.

This is why I log onto RI. MMMMmmm, Real News....

TB - You are crazy - He is a true core guy that actually does all the dirty work. He is worth a mill.

Diesal - Daniels and Wynn are locker room guys. Do what CL said and about Wynn, but you MUST restructure Daniels contract and make him a back-up. Now a days you need a good rotation in the front line. the vets (salvae/daniels/evans/wynn) should be in a steady rotation while we bring in a stalworth at DE with #6 this year.

Brunell - Restructure to 1.5 mil or get cut. Keep Collins, for now.

Also, I think Springs has the upperhand in this if he dosen't want to go along with the plan. I'm sure some team out there would give him a chance at CB.

Now, the whole prob with this is that the same people seems to be always the ones that are asked to be restructured. So, it may not work this time if they are losing faith in Gibbs 2.4........

Gibbs, unlike Norville, has won not one, not two, but 3 championships here.

Norville made the playoffs once, maybe twice. O playoff wins. He validated the firing by sucking with the Raiders, and not making the playoffs, or to the life of his contract.

Take that weak ass comparison of Gibbs and Norville someplace else d bag. The fact that your team now emulates the Skins is hysterical. Meddling owner, running a storied franchise, plotting the course of ineptitude.

The only thing I envy about little D, is the abundance of draft picks and cap room....

K Squared,

Love the argument except the end point. That's like saying the only thing I envy about Brad Pitt is his good looks and gobs of cash.

K Squared,

Love the argument except the end point. That's like saying the only thing I envy about Brad Pitt is his good looks and gobs of cash.

Norv only made playoffs once, but did get a win against detroit beeting Gus Ferotte..

But agreed F Norv!

I posted twice for K Squared.

I predict that Springs will not restructure his contract. He counts as $7+ mil against the cap and he's due nearly $5 mil in salary next year. No way the Skins can make it worth his while to restructure. The FA market for CBs is weak with Clements and Samuel being the top guys. If the Skins release Springs, he'll be able to easily recoup that $5 mil he's due next season and then some through a signing bonus and salary elsewhere.
Brunell isn't going anywhere. I don't think he has (m)any options. He'll keep stealing money here.

Who wouldn't want Norvcus to become head coach of the cowgirls. He is a great offensive cordinator, but his leadership skills as a head coach are right up there with Spurriers.

First, Norv's name is "Norval", not "Norville". Still funny, but there it is. I think he's a GREAT OC, horrible head coach. Hopefully the Cowboys sign him.

Second, fantastic entry on NFL Films JLaC. I don't want to comment on a stale thread, but I do want to second (and third and fourth and fifth!) that NFL Films' "America's Game" series is just out of this world good. I'm convinced it's the best stuff those guys have ever done, and that's saying a whole heck of a lot.

Lastly, couldn't agree more with Old School about the core guys and surrounding them with "faster, cheaper" guys.

St. Joe wants his choirboys, though, and he wants to build his happy little family of "character guys". As Old School said, "root for the uniforms, not the players." In this day and age, the players have no loyalty (or real interaction with, for that matter) to the fans, nor should we have any loyalty to them.

And, quite frankly, at the end of the day, what do we get if the 'Skins win a Super Bowl? One day of happy watercooler talk? Yay. It's not like we're getting rings or anything. It's Sunday entertainment. I don't care what these guys are like off the field, just entertain me on Sunday.

After all, I have this blog to entertain me for the rest of the week...

:-)

I would take Jansen over Samuels any day. Jansen is the ultimate tough guy o-lineman we need. Him and Randy Thomas. We don't a need a o-lineman getting pushed around by the better DE's in the league like Samuels. But yet, he makes the Pro-Bowl?

Ref: Jansen

It's too bad he never made one pro bowl. It always really angered me that the ape from Philly who was the biggest cheat always did. He used to get DE's tangled up in his tricep hair. (Seriously who has that much hair on their tricep?)

Here is my quote (or Chris Rock's really) regarding the Jansen situation. I'll give it to you 6 months in advance:

"I'm not saying they shoulda done it, but i understand"

k Squared... good point about Dallas emulating the Redskins of the mid 90s... and if Norv is their head coach, it will be almost uncanny:

Meddling Owner/GM: Snyder and Jones

Unheralded QB from small school, with funny name: Gus and Romo

Idiot Primadonna WR: Westbrook and TO

Defensive Safety that gets toasted every game: Stanley Richard and Roy Williams

Weak Head Coach: Norv and Norv

Just seems like poetic justice for the Cowpie fans that talked all that smack back in the day.

k squared - Check your facts. Norv won a playoff game.

Wild-Card playoffs: WASHINGTON 27, Detroit 13; MINNESOTA 27, Dallas 10
Divisional playoffs: TAMPA BAY 14, Washington 13; ST. LOUIS 49, Minnesota 37

I think Jansen has "hand" on the restructure negotiation. The only thing the Skins have is Wade, who could probably step in for Jansen (like he did in N.O.?), but Wade is FA, plus he has that game film and several years as a starter. Wade could become a Skin next year (and a starter) for a dollar less than Jansen's bottom line.

Adam - He only really gets pushed around by big-name guys. JAred Allen was the only no name at the time - and he is now on everyone's map. Even Ogden mostly lost battles with Freeny. That has been well documented and he's made like 11 straight pro-bowls...

I'm lost. Why is the unnamed poster so steadfastly backing Norv. 1 playoff win in 7 years is good if you are talking about the team he beat (Detroit) or Arizona or something. Plus the game they lost that year in the playoffs, the so called offensive genius could not produce 1 TD. It was a Bmitch kick return. Norv sucked, get over it. Sorry if you are a family member or something...

Not that the Redskins are legit superbowl contenders (or even playoff contenders at this point), but our ranking has gone up thanks to the off season of our fellow NFC East teams so far:

Dallas: Parcells quit, new coaching staff, Romo could very well be a one hit wonder (see: Gus Frerotte's Pro Bowl season)

Giants: No more Tikki, Coaching situation ready to implode, aging/injury prone defense

Philly: Possible QB controversy, WR issues, but still the team to beat in the East

Maybe by just being the only team of consinstancy in our division we will have a shot. Wouldn't that be ironic for a Redskins team?

Just for reference The Pats Core group consits of Tom Brady and Teddy Breu. they have only 8 guys who have 3 rings and less than 15 who have 2. meaning they have almost completly turned over their roster over the past 6 yrs.

Back in the day I had complete confidence in the skins front office if they cut someone, drafted,or signed someone you just knew it was the right move.Needless to say my confidence in th current FO is somewhat lacking.

etrod, I do not understand your analogy, but it does not matter.

What I like about cap room and full array of draftpicks is....everything. We have not had a cap room since the SnyderSuckfest began. I can't remember the last time we had more than 4 picks, with any consequence.

We never have enough cap room to improve an aging, over evalutaed talent base. So, in order to add some pieces, not necessarily the right pieces, we have to ask some to redo their deal for the greater good.

Clearly, this business model does not work. The only way I see getting out of this nightmare is to suck it up, literally. Suck, by purging all high end contracts, which means fielding a much younger, possibly more inferior team.

You don't think enough of draft picks....New England has 2 number ones.....again. They regularily stockpile picks, sign nobody's for nothing, and always are under the cap, and almost always in the playoffs.

I am a fan of both teams Norv coached and I never developed the hate for Norv that many of you guys have. I think he has been judged unfairly. The rosters during his tenure here were not great (never had a decent QB) and the FO didn't do a great job drafting. When he finally got a QB in Brad Johnson in 1999, Stephen Davis and Mike Westbrook had their best seasons and the team made the playofffs. Then the Danny mucks it all up by bringing in George. Raiders were terrible when he got there and they are still terrible. Sometimes it ain't the coaching. And I am not the unsigned poster.

And Norv had one playoff appearance in 6 seasons not 7. The Skins have only had one playoff appearance in the six seasons since Norv left. Is that his fault too?

Agreed with Leonard HAnd.

New post.....

I agree with LH. Much of the mediocrity was not Norv's fault.

Having said that I think he's a horrible leader. Great X and O guy but not a leader. My feeling is that the personell in Dallas would walk all over that guy.

With a meddling owner who half the team reports to anyway, I think it's a horrible hire. I'm just concerned cause Norv always seems to have our number.

yes.

My bad it was 7 seasons for Norv. He got fired during his seventh season.

LH

One of my first posts said nearly the same thing.Point being instability at QB has been the bain of the franchises recent existance and that I blame completely on Snyder. Thats why I hope Campell developes and truley believe the rest we can fix. QB you can't .

After living with Norv for seven seasons through my Junior/Senior and early college years, Norv kinda grew on me. I starting to think it was more the personnel at fault vs. the HC. We were just about to turn the corner when Mr Cooke Past and didn't decide to leave the franchise to his son and in swoops to 30something internet dude who ruined everyhting....

Junior/Senior High School that is......

I agree 100 pc with the first post. (gosh, doesn't everyone on this blog?)

Give Brunell the minimum or goodbye!

Great idea.

What a freakin' mess.

Every year its the same thing.

If anything, they should realize that this isn't giving them desired results. They need to take a year and eat some of the cap mess they've created. Roll with Campbell and the crew they'd got. Maybe add 1 player that could start. Any other signings need to be teams and backups.

Jansen deserved a Pro Bowl, about 3 years back. It's been uniformly downhill since then, and this season 'adequate' is the best his performance could be called. Signing Wade to a long-term contract as a back up would give great leverage over Jansen in negotiations, and if we lost him outright there wouldn't be much dropoff, if any.

Ask Julius Peppers if Jansen has lost a step...

Guy played on ONE healthy leg ALL year long, and suddenly, he's lost a step, and not worth keeping around.

Unbelievable.

While Turner was with Dallas, they won three Super Bowls in four years. While Turner was coach here, Washington was 49-59-1. They made the playoffs once. He was 9-23 with the Raiders, but that situation is so bad no one could fix it. Compare this with the genius coach du jour, Smilin Bill Belichick. In his first head coaching job, he was 36-44 and made the playoffs once with the Browns, the Cleveland fans hated him and he got fired. After a few years back under Bill Parcells wing, he takes the Patriots job (screwing the Jets and Parcells in the process), and becomes the greatest thing since Vince Lombardi. Counting out Norv Turner based on his record here and in Oakland may be premature. After all, think how much he would enjoy putting his finger in Danny Snyder's eye twice a year.

Forget about Wade he has already said he was hitting the FA market. Jansen has been solid and hurt for the better part of 3 years, give the man a break.

cm202bc,

Wade does not want to be a backup - wants a starting position with another team.

Norv only won 2 SBs with Dallas. He was under Jimmy's regime (90-93). By the time they won the 3rd he was already supposedly the 'Skins Coach.

Also - Isn't Norv somehow tied to the tree of Air Coryell? I vaguely remember something like that........

stop with the negativity already people! we've got $300K to work with! all we need now is for all the "fans to pray" that these 3 "core ***skins" accept the restructured deals. and ohh don't forget "to pray" that they stay healthy the whole season which hasn't happened for these 3 in a while but "miracles do happen everyday".

also on a related note...skins have hired 3 WOMEN to be consultants for the coaches and the FO. eyewitnesses have described them as all 3 having long grayish hair and sporting warts on their noses. BRILLIANT!!!

dealer,

F'in funny! But I thought the Wicked Witch of the West melted?

you know how these 3rd person accounts go...for all we know there were just 2 and the other one might've been ian mckellen.

Hmmmm, I wonder when the Skins FO is going to invade our sanctuary?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/28/AR2007012801032.html

charlie, they already do and have. if you go back a couple of months on this blog there were threads created by jason (of this blog) regarding this. the keyword is "karl swanson"...

Hmmm, but I haven't seen anything positive posted about the Skins here in a long time!!! ;)

Besides me, there's Lisa.

This is pretty good - though I think the earlier ones are funniest.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0701/gallery.nfl.SBfunnyquestions/content.1.html

TB is right. $1mil for Thrash and especially 2 yr extension is foolish. I like what Thrash does. But he is old by WR stds and any corner in the league can cover him one-on-one. Special teams he is good. But we got PR and KR talent. How many punt blocks or forced fumbles came from Thrash? Seriously. Teams need guys like Thrash but they do not need 35 yr old WRs counting against the cap. Which is the real issue. If Skins cap mgmt was competent then this is a non issue. But it is a disaster. And signings like this perpetuate that disaster far into the future.

How about a bLaw that if you plan to release somebody you have to tell us what the cap hit pre-June 1 and post-June 1 is?
'cause if you're jettisoning dead weight, then what are you going to replace it with? If there were a bunch of NFL-capable guys out there, why did we wait until after the season to think of this?
And for those of you that think Jansen/Wade is a wash, why did Jansen have to pull himself out of the lineup to give Wade a chance to play? I don't know the extent of his injury, but whatever it was Wade couldn't beat him out for the start. He had one decent game, and he's physically ...imposing ... but that doesn't make him starter material.

This is only the beginning. Wait until:

- Dockery flies the coop to make room for Nate Clements
- Brunell's deal is extended to save even more on this year's cap and he is named starter a week into TC
- All of the old d-linemen get extensions
- Arch is kept around as the punter's personal protector... Guarding the punt rush remains the only significant ST weakness

Anyway, Gibbs cares more about his personal connection to Thrash, Jansen, Brunell aand Co. than he cares about winning. I don't understand how you can be so smitten with a group of chronic losers... Guess it's a God thing.

any word on russ grimm. be nice to see him come home. would have been skins head coach by now if not for Marty.

In case you haven't noticed the one things the Skins do OK, is restructuring. We must I repeat must keep Daniels, Jansen, and Springs. All they do is guarntee the bonus and it creates much more cap room. In a couple years cut them. As long as they use to money to resign Dock everyone should be happy. They are under the cap right now, but don't have much room. Once they restructure these deals we will have around 12 million under and can sign some players.