JLC,

Great article yesterday. This organization is in shambles, but the good news is that Gibbs STILL thinks that "we're going about things the right way UP HERE". Sickening to hear.

You just have to wonder under their current structure if they are doomed to repeat the same mistakes

they're doomed to repeat the same mistakes unless ... :)

JLaC --

Thank you (to HB as well) for the in-depth articles.

(1) Any rumblings yet on Cerrato's future?

(2) Any rumblings yet on whether any coaches are being sought for other jobs?

If I were Joe (and in a sense, I am) I would take a couple weeks off NOW. Take a step back and let the emotions of the season settle down. Then come back refreshed and ready to take a look at what happened.

Happy New Year everybody. Thank you JLaC for all the insight you provide about our beloved team. Coach Gibbs, you keep saying it's on you, and to judge you, but on 3 years, not 1 year. OK then...21 wins and 27 losses in 3 years. As the article points out so clearly, you're a bottom line type of guy. You can spin it any way you want about "core" guys and the 2004 free agent class, but again 21-27. As a bottom line guy, I'd have to say what you're doing is not working. Anyway, back at work today...first day back since the baby girl was born. Feels strange.

How 'bout that Boise State-Oklahoma game??? Wow.
A coupla things I want to share....
We always, always strive to get sources to go on the record and go with off-the-record material only when there's no other way to get a story that we feel is compelling and important. And we verify info we get independently.
After writing stories like these, it's also important to make your face shown at the park. So Jason and Howard are both there today, in case someone would like to reach out to them. One more piece runs tomorrow.
As for the playoffs, Howard will go to New England on Sunday. Jason will grab a few Ravens stories as we ramp up coverage of them. However, they'll both continue to be responsible for any Redskins goings-on.
Jason will go to the Super Bowl; Howard will do the combine.

If I was Coach Joe. I would walk across better yet jump across the table punch double G in the mouth. Then tell him to get the hell out you're fired!!

well, technically 2nd day back...had to work Xmas Day

dealer --

You aren't alone. One thing that is certain "up here" is that there are a few teams every season that looked hopeless the year before only to have great success a year later. Look at the Ravens. Last year the locker room was a mess. Ray was calling out coaches and the front office. Billick was a villian. Now they have a good shot at making the Super Bowl.

In today's NFL, the difference between 5-11 and 11-5 isn't that much. Many of the Skins' "personnel" problems (malcontents, players disagreeing with coaches, etc) are instantly cured by winning. Sure, the defense lacks playmakers. Draft picks are few and far between. Players are tired of the revolving door. But...re-sign Dock, keep playing physical on offense, finally give Campbell a full off-season as the starter, sign a true MLB and move Lemar back to OLB, sign a CB so Carlos can go back to nickle, get Pierson back healthy to guide the Reaper, and this team could easily be just as good as most in the NFC.

That's not to say that I don't want to see Cerrato canned and a proven talent evaluator -- and value evaluator -- installed and the team to reinvest in the draft. But turnarounds happen quickly in the NFL.

JM, I'd prefer if Gibbs would just sat across the board room and give Grilliams the Trump-style hand cobra.

Gibbs: "Gregg, you made too many mistakes and you couldn't manage your unit. You're Fired. (cobra) Everyone else, back up to the suite."

4-12,

Great point.

Joe, it HAS been 3 years....

This team is doomed. Gibbs' arrogance is only surpassed by his ever-present state of denial.

Honestly, his pressers are pathetic, particularly when you contrast them with other head coaches on the 212.

The media's questions to him are equally poor. Where are the tough questions? 5-11 just got a couple of coaches fired and we treat this stiff like some sort of genious.

"They played hard." "Five games by three points we lost." (actually it was four).
"Fought our guts out." Can Swanson or someone feed him some new cliches to use already.

I am so sick of his pandering and placating to the fans - it's so transparently phony I could puke.

Again, let this arrogant has-been railroad this team into oblivion. We can still take solace that there are three dusty trophies out in Loudon County. Great.

This team is doomed. Gibbs' arrogance is only surpassed by his ever-present state of denial.

Honestly, his pressers are pathetic, particularly when you contrast them with other head coaches on the 212.

The media's questions to him are equally poor. Where are the tough questions? 5-11 just got a couple of coaches fired and we treat this stiff like some sort of genious.

"They played hard." "Five games by three points we lost." (actually it was four).
"Fought our guts out." Can Swanson or someone feed him some new cliches to use already.

I am so sick of his pandering and placating to the fans - it's so transparently phony I could puke.

Again, let this arrogant has-been railroad this team into oblivion. We can still take solace that there are three dusty trophies out in Loudon County. Great.

What do you think will last longer, the Cowboys playoff hopes, or Gerald Ford's funeral?

This team is doomed. Gibbs' arrogance is only surpassed by his ever-present state of denial.

Honestly, his pressers are pathetic, particularly when you contrast them with other head coaches on the 212.

The media's questions to him are equally poor. Where are the tough questions? 5-11 just got a couple of coaches fired and we treat this stiff like some sort of genious.

"They played hard." "Five games by three points we lost." (actually it was four).
"Fought our guts out." Can Swanson or someone feed him some new cliches to use already.

I am so sick of his pandering and placating to the fans - it's so transparently phony I could puke.

Again, let this arrogant has-been railroad this team into oblivion. We can still take solace that there are three dusty trophies out in Loudon County. Great.

Dealer - you're right. I was just in wishing mode.

JLaC - It's not 'out here', it's 'up here'..........

There are two major issues with this organization right now ... the management structure (as has been pointed out repeatedly) and the lack of accountability. Tell me, how many coaches on teams with better records have lost their jobs over the past three years? Why isn't this organization holding its coaches as accountable as its players?

Back in NC from visiting my family in the NVA area. Brought a lousy cold or upper respiratory infection with me so today I feel like s***. At least I have my own keyboard again so the typos shoud be fewer.

I would never question Coach Gibb's commitment to improving the skins and I think that he thought he had done so at the beginning of this season. However lots of things changed. He ran a patsy training camp (They should get away from this area for their training - working out in Ashburn provides too many distractions although it does improve Mr. Synder's bottom line.) Obviously, some of the free agent talent was poorly evaluated although there appears to be hope for Carter. They cannot afford to get rid of Archuleta so I hope they are plainning some way to get play out of him. Loyd is a real head case and a potential locker room breaker. There are some real posibilities with Randel-El and he appears to play hard every play.

That said; what in the h*** can we do about the defense without many draft choices- we will probably be very active in the undrafted free-agent market this year. This may be the year we really see if Coach Williams can put together a no-name defense if nobody comes looking from another team. He would probably be smart to take a big salary cut and try to go elsewhere as it appears that he has really worn out his welcome here.

Proir post stated thing prettu well - evaluated over the entire three year period the defense has gone steadily down hill - 3rd place to 9th wasen't too bad but dead last in most important categories does not show progress

You folks who live in the DC area - please post any information you can about the skins - we don't get much down here; especially in the off season.

Happy New Year to everyone - even the Redskins.

What do you think will last longer, the Cowboys playoff hopes, or Gerald Ford's funeral?

Oh Smack that is just wrong!

I know I feel better knowing Vinny is in their plotting the future of our team.

Anyone know where we are in the draft order this year?

I'd like to pick up on the comments posted by CMoney. If you look at the past few years, the road to success in today's NFL is not linear. Only a few teams (most notably the Patriots) have had sustained success. Of the 12 teams that made the playoffs last year, seven didn't make it this year. Of the four teams who were in last year's conference championship games, three aren't even in the postseason now. And for the four top-seeded teams with byes this year, three of them weren't playoff teams last year. The Ravens and Saints were dismal.

Doesn't mean I don't think the criticism of the Redskins isn't fair or accurate. I just think it's important to look at things in the context of the greater picture. With parity the way it is in the NFL these days, the expectations that come with success one year could be the undoing of a team the following season. The fact that the Redskins will go into 2007 with a fraction of the expectations they shouldered this season, combined with Jason Campbell taking all the snaps in preseason and everyone working together another year, should work to their advantage.

Greg,

Couldn't agree more. Your post was so good I'm actually glad you re-submitted 3 times.

I'm going to use the next 2 months to re-evaluate having season tickets... there really isn't much on the "pro" side right now.

Ricky Bobby,

I'm with you. Lots on the "con" list right now. Not sure if I want to pay anymore up here to fight my guts out to get to the stadium to watch this stuff.

Robbie --

As of now, it looks like Gibbs is the only guy to whom Snyder will defer all football-related power. I do not long for the days of Snyder running the weekly status meetings. So long as Gibbs being fired means Snyder regaining control of football operations, I don't think any Skins fan should want Gibbs to go. At least not yet.

What Gibbs needs is a proven player personnel guy who will tell Gibbs "no, that player is not worth 2 draft picks" and tell Snyder "no, that player is not worth $10M in guarantees." And I don't mean a guy who necessarily has final decision making authority (I think we can all agree that Gibbs won't give that up unless Danny says so) -- heck, the Patriots' Scott Pioli doesn't even have final say.

But JLaC's article exposes that Cerrato basically has as much say into which players the team acquires as the great Steve Jackson does. Instead, Cerrato is basically the guy who goes to Kinko's to put together pretty looking dossiers on free agents and college players. So Gibbs is driving blind into free agency and the draft. That is the biggest problem with the organization.

All quiet on the Redskins front
Now begins that offseason hunt
A free agent parade
Athletes overpaid
Oh well, guess I'll just smoke this blunt

Here Here to Billyrich. We need consistency. Don't change much and stay the course. Every team has their own way. We just need to add youth to our defense...........

We pick #6 in the draft........

CMoney,

I don't necessarily mean Gibbs. I agree that having him in such a powerful position within the organization is a good thing. But certainly some of the subordinate/assistant coaches should be seeking employment elsewhere.

I also know that a GM-like figure would be better for the Skins that the current setup. Since that's been argued to death, I'm staying away from it. I'm just curious as to why no one's being called to the carpet is all.

billyrich, you can spin it whichever way you want but by any measure this organization is failing. Following 1992-1993 season: 4-12, 3-13, 6-10, 9-7, 8-7-1, 6-10, 10-6 (playoffs), 8-8, 8-8, 7-9, 5-11, 6-10, 10-6 (playoffs), and 5-11. That looks pretty linear to me.

Sorry for unsigned post.

I think the point is that anytime you over pay for players you won't be successful.

I agree that we will probably never see the likes of the 80's and 90's 49ers but there are teams that year in and year out compete.

You have to setup your team to make it to the playoffs. Once you make the playoffs anything can happen. That doesn't mean you'll win the SB every year butat least you have a shot.

Until gets a good GM or personnel man, the team is doomed. Vinny needs to be fired and Saunders needs instruction on NFC play calling.

My thoughts for this offseason
Mgmt
1 Most important is to .... Acknowlege 2007 is a rebuild and grow year and that salary cap mgmt has been a disaster
2 Too many coaches so lose some especially on defense
3 Begin to change relationship with salary cap since it puts staff in situations where bad choices get made like Pierce and Clark
4 Get rid of deadweight like Arch and Lloyd as part of clearing cap for 2008 and beyond
5 Keep away from ALL pricey free agents since the Skins are not 1 or 2 players away
6 think depth and discipline when looking at players inside and outside

Offense
7 Get a coach to develop Campbell like Mariucci
8 Develop depth on O-line and add young WR in hope of upgrade

Defense
9 Call it a disaster. It did not work. Gave up lots of yards and set record for fewest turnovers. Rethink everything. More talent than results.
10 Find an MLB from current group of Rocky, Carter, Reaper or go to 3-4
11 Depth matters Griff is terrific when healthy which is 1/2 the time. Look for low price talent that can excel in certain situations like Clark/Harris did this year ... for other teams!
12 Get younger
13 Every day have Rogers catch 50 balls a day even if it takes all night

Special teams
14 All the tinkering appears to work. Had success in most areas. Suisam, Cartright Randle El are plusses but push Frost again though he probably keeps the job.

jm220: if I hadn't seen your pics, I would have to wonder if you weren't a trump offspring with a budding career in wrestling. . .

btw, "smack to back of the..." is a much better saying than "you're fired" - which just doesn't sound right coming from you. . .

I agree. 2 playoff appearances in 15 or so years is horrendous... especially when you factor in the above point that the NFL standings change year to year. We have seriously become the Arizona Cardinals ON THE FIELD. And if NOT the Cardinals, then just a small step above.

Pros of keeping tickets:
1. There on game days, hopefully for more than 3 meaningful football games
2. Tailgating is a blast with friends

Cons of keeping tickets:
1. You have to buy pre-season games
2. You have already paid for meaningless football games if they suck... based on the last 15 years of Redskins history, that is a 70-80 percent certainty.
3. The cost is absurd. $87 per ticket to sit in the upper deck to watch a losing team??? $35 to park??? $8 a beer? I know this is not just the Skins, but it's a con no matter how you slice it.
4. I could have a new big screen TV by simply throwing away my invoice. Friends and family could come over and we could party that way. $.50 beers.
5. Traffic and congestion
6. Lack of ammenities at FedEx
7. Amount of opposing teams fans
8. Fights and stabbings
9. Easier to pee at my house. Don't have to miss half the 3rd quarter if I need to go to the bathroom at halftime.
10. Seniority is a non-factor with Snyder. Anyone with money can jump ahead of me and get better seats. In fact, unless I want to buy BS tailgate tickets, I will NEVER OWN A LOWER LEVEL SEASON TICKET.
11. You can walk up on gameday and buy a ticket to any game, at any time, at below face value.

What have I missed?

The crummy thing is that the 2 pros might outweigh the 11+ cons... right now. When I get out of my 20's and start having kids, etc, that will probably change.

Was at the game on Saturday with my 7 year old son. Generally we tailgate and do not begin our walk to the stadium until 45 minutes before kickoff. This time we did not and planned on eating inside. As we were approacking the stadium at about 530pm or so I was amazed to hear (what I thought) was the place rocking like a playoff game. Then I see people milling about in front of the gates, and think "there are a lot of people inside and out so far from kickoff, this is going to be tremendous".

Then reality set in the crowd near the entrances were waiting for the gates to open, and the noise was the pumped in crowd noise I have heard so much about. All of my epxeriences are in a generally full stadium as I arrive so close to kickoff, and when people here would speak about the artificial noise, I had no idea what they were talking about. Now I know, and I am ashamed that they do it. SDo now I can add that to the list of embarassments I have so far (directions to the fans on how to cheer, the silly Funky Four, etc). Ick.

Also (sorry for the long post), is FedEx becoming a bit thuggish? I saw more than a handful of fights in the stands. I do not recall that from 5-6 years ago.

I was more of a lukrer than a poster on the blog, but I enjoyed my guts out reading all of the supersmart comments on our team.

Wow, since the Gibbs I era, only one coach has a .500 cumulative record during his tenure with us: Marty.
Snyder fired him to bring Vinny back and hire Spurrier.
Sure makes it hard to argue against Snyder as the main reason to blame for our misery.

Wing,

Pretty sad, huh? And FedEx is definitely becoming thug central... but that's what happens when you can buy tickets for $5 and a bag of weed in the parking lot prior to the game. And it also doesn't help that your stadium is so big that opposing team fans can buy tickets for $3. Oh, and that your owner has an agreement with stub hub with probably 20,000 of the tickets. Oh, and that we suck year after year...

Speaking of thuggery at Fedex. Did you all hear that a 59 yo man stabbed a 23 yo guy in the chest during an altercation in the parking lot after the game? Injuries weren't life threatening but why does a man of nearly 60 yrs bring a knife to a football game?

Now Coach John T show is talking about JLC article. Is every show talking about it? Damn maybe I do need to make a drive down and cover our boy back. lol

I still think the glass is half full not half empty. On the field we have restablished a power running style and have a young developing QB capable of throwing to all parts of the field ( not just short and left )defenses will have to respect that and play us without stacking the box.Portis/Betts is a nice problem to have. I think they can not only coexist but flourish next year because neither is a selfish player. Both will get plenty of opportunities. It is a QB league and if you havea good one, along with a good offenseive line and running game (which we have) certaintly in the NFC you can compete for a playoff spot. Get better upfront on D a pass rushing DE is the top priority, remember it is qb league, creating havoc with your front four creates more turnovers opportunities and game changing plays. In most NFL games it comes down a handful of game changing plays you either make or give up that spells win or loss. Our team doesn't turn it over much so any marginal improvement from the Worst amount of turnovers ever created in history has to be the diference in three or four games.

>>> "is FedEx becoming a bit thuggish"

I hit about 8 NFL stadiums this year and it's not jut FedEx. Maybe it's because I'm old and fat now and notice such things more, but the level of drunkeness at games is horrible. I'm all for people getting drunk and having fun, but not in front of children and not in a belligerent manner.

jm220- It's all anybody on sports-talk can talk about, because our boy is the only real journalist (oops, you are too HB) who dives in and really covers the team...not a mouthpiece for them like george michael.

Diddy,

I agree... it's definitely not just FedEx. But I know it can't help when anyone can get a ticket for free outside the gates.

Definitely love JLC/HowBry and 980's coverage of the Skins. But those 2 groups better watch out or Snyder will strip them of their access to tickets, Coach Gibbs interviews, etc....

OH WAIT......

Hey JLC is going to be on 980 in a few

JLC next on John T

JLC next on John T

Cool!

For those listening on the Internets:
http://www.sportstalk980.com/main.html

I'm sorry. Did I hear JLaC will be on the JT Show? I wasn't listening too carefully????

Could someone please para-phrase for those of us whom cannot access this?

Thanks very much.

Joe Gibbs and co need to work smarter not harder. They keep making the same ridiculous mistakes over and over. Working harder isn't working for them.

I honestly don't see how they can afford to do what they do every year. Players will have to restructure and I don't see that happening anymore since it doesn't work and "core" players get forced out.

Jason, did you actually approach players and get quotes? It's hard for me to believe that players would actually be forthcoming with reporters.

Cmoney, 2:20 pm: "Cerrato is basically the guy who goes to Kinko's to put together pretty looking dossiers on free agents and college players."

AWESOME, CMONEY!!!

I formally propose that Vinny be known as 'Kinkos' on this blog.

btw, super-conscientious reader of the blog, lifelong skins fan back to the over-the-hill-gang--Chris Hanburger, Pardee, plus of course Ken Houston, Charley Taylor and Larry Brown. What a team back then! Now, first post.

I'm hoping we'll maintain the blog during the off-season. I promise to read my guts out.

Cmoney, 2:20 pm: "Cerrato is basically the guy who goes to Kinko's to put together pretty looking dossiers on free agents and college players."

AWESOME, CMONEY!!!

I formally propose that Vinny be known as 'Kinkos' on this blog.

btw, super-conscientious reader of the blog, lifelong skins fan back to the over-the-hill-gang--Chris Hanburger, Pardee, plus of course Ken Houston, Charley Taylor and Larry Brown. What a team back then! Now, first post.

I'm hoping we'll maintain the blog during the off-season. I promise to read my guts out.

Damn Doc just called out Llyodd. Now JLC is starting to call him out.

Damn Doc just called out Llyodd. Now JLC is starting to call him out.

He does not sound like he like Dan Snyder to me......

Nothing new. Will recap in a sec.

Damn JLC is coming hard on Coach John T show. Yeah he better keep his head up at the park for the Dan now. He also said he sat down and talked with Coach Joe about the team and the Portis trade. And how no one in the league would have made that trade. Coach Joe response was that everyone is wrong.

Personally, I've had enough of the badmouthing of the team....it's gone too far and has become too DRAMATIC. Obviously, it gives the sports reporters something to talk about and they love to talk about bad stuff rather than good. Wonder what the hell they will talk about 3 weeks from now when this dies down. Really, really tired of hearing about the Champ Bailey trade - he flippin' wanted to leave!

jm220 --

What did he say about 23 Catches? I got on late.

Yeah, I'm with you on the Champ trade. Its water under the bridge at this point. Its been water under the bridge for a couple of years now. People need to move on, there is not ONE thing that can be done at this point in time.

To recap. Nothing.

JLaC talks to everyone from the Janitor to the Mailman to get a feel of the Redskins. So he basically qouted anyone any everyone for his article, including the night cleaning people........

JLaC also dosen't like they're GM setup, or speaking as another GM, he dosen't. He feels Snyder should come out and say something. But Gibbs is his bullet proof vest. He dosen't see too much happening in the offseason. Just one or 2 big moves. MAybe trade down in the draft to get more players. That's about it....

That Boise State/Oklahoma game was the most exciting thing I've seen in years.

Anybody think that we could/should deal our 6th overall pick for a late 1st round and second (third?) round pick (not sure what the "point value" of a 6th overall pick is, but it's got to be high)? I guess if there is an awesome guy on the DL available, we should grab him, but it seems like the Skins need a lot of help on the defense rather than being "one player away".

I think he was just using the Bailey trade as an example of just how clueless Coach Joe appears to be. We got raped on the deal and he thinks it was the best move EVER. We go 5-11 and he still thinks "we're going about it the right way UP HERE". We lose game after game and Gibby proclaims "how proud he is". He has clearly lost his mind.

Thanks for the re-caps guys. I like the idea of trading back for more picks. However this will only work if G-Williams actually plays the guys we draft.

Funniest thing from the broadcast was from Walker if you knew Lloyd was going to be a headache why don't you go get TO he at least catches TD's.

Game worn Arch jersey $999. WTF!! This got to be a joke.

Who cares about the Redskins anyway? DC United soccer starts up soon. Go Black and Red!!!!

hampton,

agree on both points.

Boise St. game was unreal.... 2nd greatest ending ever. Santana #1

I also think we need to trade down. A late first and a 2nd should produce 2 starters, instead of just 1. Hell, I might even trade down, get a late first and a second, then trade down again and get 3 first day picks.

But that's not the way the Skins do things. Like Doc just said, there's no party at FedEx with a few 2nd round picks. To them, #6 is way too sexy to give up.... money and notaritity over wins. Terrible way to run a football team.

I'd trade down twice. 6th to around 11th...probably gain a 2nd or 3rd rounder. then trade again down to 17th-ish, and get another 2nd or 3rd rounder. They need yound defenders, and they need depth. Both easily found in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.

Here's where you can get the jersey: http://gameexclusives.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=22

They have a Brunell jersey for $1199, Carter and Griffin $749 and Cooley for $1999.

Really, really tired of hearing about the Champ Bailey trade - he flippin' wanted to leave!

I think reflecting upon the Champ Bailey trade is still appropriate, because to this day it has had an impact on the Redksins. Yes it's true he wanted to leave, BUT only after the redskins were lowballing him on his contract extension. (They ended up giving Portis essentially the same amount Champ was asking for). The fact is that we gave up too much for Portis. Don't get me wrong, Portis is a very good running back and he really helped carry the team in our playoff run last year, but giving up a Shutdown corner and a second round pick for a running back is ridiculous. Corners like that don't come around very often and Portis isn't exactly LaDainian Tomlinson. Imagine if we had Champ and Shawn Springs starting opposite of each other. This is just one example of why we need a General Manager handling personnel moves.

4-12,

looks we're on the same page. But Greg from Boston has a good point. The Skins don't play rookies until they're 47 years old. obviously Reggie Bush, Colston, Vince Young, etc... hell even Golston, those are all flukes. Rookies and 2nd year QB's should never play until the team is 4-9 and out of the playoff race.

Lisa, J-La mentioned the Bailey trade in a thread about a month ago. I recall (as you did) that Bailey wanted to go and said so publicly. Hence, the Skins got what they could for him which landed them a franchise back -- one that could end up being the most productive Redskins back of all time.

Jason responded to my point and said that he had heard it differently. That Bailey wanted to come back but wouldn't take less money just to stay in DC. Jason's got the sources, so I defer to him.

All that said, the kick between the legs is that we sent a 2ND ROUNDER in addition to one of the best corners in the NFL. Shanahan needs to go to confession after that kind of thievery. Snyder just needs to go to negotiation school.

What does one do with a $1000 game-worn jersey? I assume they wash it before they give it to you?

I wonder if I could get a game-worn "Mr." Snyder tie.

Though, I suppose in Archuleta's case, the don't need to wash it, huh?

RB/4th, even if you do that and pick up some key players for the D. Do you really think double G is going to play them? Hell no he will go with his they don't know the system and all that bs as he did with RockyMac. Damn now I am angry again. lol

For those interested in what the Skins could get by trading down from #6, here is a link to the widely used draft pick trade value chart: http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFLDraft/Draft+Insider/2004/TradeValue.htm#Chart

Basically, the #6 pick is worth 2 low 1st rounders, or a mid-1st and a high-2nd. One option might be a trade with the Patriots for their two 1st rounders (approx picks 22 and 28). But the Pats are too smart for that.

In a perfect world, Quinn or Peterson falls to 6 and a team like the Panthers or Packers want to overpay to move up and we can get the best available defenders/OL with the picks we acquire.

Gibbs with Riggo now.........

Portis and Bailey didn't get the same money, Ktron. Bailey got a deal roughly for 67 million. Portis got one for in the 50's. However I agree that we should not have sent the 2nd round pick.

The fact is: ALL teams have problems! In fact, all organizations have problems (the place I work for example). Look at the Ravens last season: everyone is talking about how great their organization is - hell, Ray Lewis wanted to leave before the season began, he was not talking to Billick and Billick's job was on the line. San Diego's organization was supposedly so bad that LBM would not go there. Look at AZ, Cleveland, Oakland, Dallas (yes, Dallas), NY Giants. Bulger with the Rams was calling players out several weeks ago. Philly was in a shambles last season.

The fact is that NO ONE knows what our team or record will be like next season no matter what happens with free agency, the draft, etc. The Skins coaches do not know, the fans do not know, and reporters sure as hell do not know. Many of the teams in the playoffs last season did not make it this year and many who were not there last season are in the playoffs now. Only God knows and he is not a radio reporter.

I'm ready to check out from this insanity.

On Jan 12, Scouts. Inc/ESPN will analyze why the team(s) in the NFC east didn't make the playoffs

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/columns/story?columnist=williamson_matt&id=2713838&CMP=ILC-INHEAD

the skins should feel lucky to have an entire espn.com article written about them.

Lisa,

You keep bringing up the Ravens but they are clearly up there with NE, Pitt, Philly, etc on how to run a successful NFL franchise. Look at their drafts, look at their off-season pick ups, look at the guys they let go who never amount to crap, look back to their record vs. the Skins record since 2000... and the negativity and chaos swirling around their team last year was NOTHING like it is with this team this year.

You also mentioned Arizona, Cleveland, Oakland... and you're right. We are now in their class... and that is sad.

Good to know that I am super smart. And since I am kick double G ass out. He is talking about JLC again. It seems that he is upset about the Betts comment.

Gibbs say he has no problem outside of indirect statements made related to him and a player (i.e. Cartwright) related to the articles....

riggo asking Gibbs some good questions. these typically get archived, worth listening to.

did I just hera Boofer calling in to say the redskins suck to JJG on his show?

did anyone else get that?

Portis and Bailey didn't get the same money, Ktron. Bailey got a deal roughly for 67 million. Portis got one for in the 50's. However I agree that we should not have sent the 2nd round pick.

My mistake. Bailey got a 63 million dollar deal. Portis a 50.5 million dollar deal. That's a pretty big difference.

Still a bad trade in hindsight though. If you've watched any of the Broncos games this season, you still see teams avoiding his side of the field like they were gonna get Chlamydia from even thinking about throwing his way. The Redskins could've kept him if they really wanted to, especially since they seem to throw multi-million dollar deals to anyone.

Agreed that its a bad trade, but Champ the last few years NEVER played like that for us. Amani Toomer, used to abuse him on a regular basis.

ktron: check a few posts ago, we basically beat the isht out of this topic. . .

good data on the salaries though, didn't realize at the time that Champ got $67M, big difference. . .

RickyBobby,

I ALSO mentioned Dallas, St. Louis, Philly. And I forgot to mention the Almighty Pats who had such a hard time with Deion Branch.

I heard that too........

I heard the Boofer caller. What was funny was Riggo ask Coach Joe if he hung up on him. LMAO classic. If Comcast wants someone to do the reporting it should be Riggo.

My 2 cents is its all about the qb. We have become a national laughing stock based on our instability at this position since ryp back in 1994.Our inabilty to draft one shuler/ramsey or keep one Green/Johnson or play the wrong one MB, Has us grasping at quick fixes all over the place because we don't have the most important on field position solidified.I hope that stops with jc. I live in New England and I saw it happen as soon as brady got a chance when drew got hurt. Without this one piece to the puzzle New Englands dynasty and probbally the stabilty of the franchise is totally different. I am not saying jc is tom b. but he is the best prospect we have had in like 16 yrs. The rest can be fixed.

Gibbs told me I am supersmart!!

That's why I don't believe most of the articles. Not even Jason Campbell is Super Smart yet!

I don't know how you keep picking on Philly. Yes, they had a down year last year, but they've now won the division, what, 4 out of the last 5 years... they went to the NFC Championship game 4 straight seasons, and a Super Bowl. They treat their fans to home playoff games year after year.

And St. Louis... they won a Super Bowl in the late 90's and went to another one in 2001, I believe. They also had a good team in '03 and lost to Carolina in double OT in a home playoff game.

We have been losers 15 of the last 17 years. 1 home playoff game. ONE!!!! Our fans have only been able to enjoy 1 home wild card game in 17 freaking years. Philly has had about 10 over the past 5 years... and they'll have another one this weekend. The Rams have given St. Louis a super bowl win, another super bowl appearance, and other home playoff games within the past 5 years or so. We've barely done jack since I was in middle school... now all of sudden I'm 28 and it's the same old story.

Dallas hasn't won a playoff game in 10 years, so they're probably closer to where we are... but not when you start examining Dallas' young players they've built through the draft and their ridiculous amount of cap room. I hate to say it, but the future looks a lot more promising there.

You keep bringing up the Ravens but they are clearly up there . . . on how to run a successful NFL franchise. Look at their drafts, look at their off-season pick ups, look at the guys they let go who never amount to crap . . .

You also mentioned Arizona, Cleveland, Oakland... and you're right. We are now in their class... and that is sad.

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | January 2, 2007 04:16 PM

Baltimore has had a strong independent GM for years, and I am sure there have been plenty of arguments with Billick about getting/keeping players. But the Ravens do seem to do it consistently better than the Skins. Many of their best defensive players came through high picks in the draft, so it is hard to argue with their success using that method.

But the Ravens have made personnel errors as well: letting Priest Holmes leave as a UFA; drafting Kyle Boller high and handing the starting QB job to him; etc. They also "lucked" out by NOT getting T.O., although tyey tried very hard to land him. On the other hand, they happened to be in the right place at the right time when Steve McNair came available. It just goes to show that every organization can and will make mistakes, and also occasionally gets lucky.

If nothing else, the teams that seem to make the fewest personnel errors and get "lucky" most often are those organizations with a strong GM/personnel side. Sadly, the Redskins are not currently one of those teams. They are definitely in the same pack with Cleveland and Arizona. (Oakland along with Detroit, however, are in a league of their own.)

I still think Grilliams should be interviewing for the Arizona Head Coach position this week. He will be a PERFECT fit!!!

Old School,

Last night I was (as always) watching the NFL Network and Jamie Dukes said the same thing you did - an NFL team's success is all about the QB. Dukes said if you can get a good QB you can build a winning team.

JLC,

It's been 21 weeks, can you please send me my prize for winning the redskins song contest? Seriously bro.

You have my email address, but if not, let me know on here if you need my info again.

Barno

JLC,

It's been 21 weeks, can you please send me my prize for winning the redskins song contest? Seriously bro.

You have my email address, but if not, let me know on here if you need my info again.

Barno

Lisa, here are a few positives going into the offseason:

1. We didn't end on a winning streak. It's wierd, but a meaningless push at the end would have masked everything that needs to be fixed. The coaches should get a clear view of what needs improvement/upgrading.

2. We have a high 1st rounder. Provided we don't trade it for Nate Clements, that should yield an impact player.

3. The QB of the future is becoming the QB of the present. Mediocre teams can do very well with a top-notch QB. Campbell might be a good one.

4. Our head coach isn't flirting with Alabama or Univ. of Washington. Gibbs is committed - not every team can say that.

5. Joe Bugel. The guy took a backseat to Weird Al but his influence has become more apparent.

6. Defenses can turn around quickly. Grilliams is an arrogant SOB, but he has a track record of success.

Joe,

Is Clements a free agent? If we trade our pick to Buffalo, then sign him to a 50 million dollar deal that no other team would have matched in free agency anyway (ala Brunell), I am seriously done with this team.

Another great article today. I like "The Lost Season" title it's like Lennon's Lost Weekend.

4th and 4-12 glad to have you back.

Okay I'm gonna put the needle on the broken record. My repeated thoughts for off season:
1. Williams has got to go and soon.

2. Trade 6th pick for lower picks and focus on defense LB and secondary first and some o-liners next.

3. Declare Portis the starter next season. Force Betts to walk around with a ball and tell everyone from players to cleaning people to go after it anytime anywhere.

4. If you pursue an FA make it 1-2 at most and make them defensive players.

5. Dump BLloyd. He's bad blood and we don't need him.

6. Keep Arch - maybe he sucks but he got treated like a child so we should at least treat him as an $8 million dollar adult. If there is a new d-coord then who knows what can happen.

7. Hire a GM and tell Vinny to wait by the phone at Kinkos.

The record of the last 15 years is horrible. If you want further depression look at the graphic on WaPo called "Running Commentary" and look at yards allowed, most games the d gave up over 300 yards.

I don't even pretend to think about an SB at this point but what I want is a team that is going to be competitive every game and every season. I know I watch the Skins now and everytime we do something good I just sit with that pit in my stomach waiting for us to eff it up. We alomst always do. I'm sick of it. I'm happy for 9-7, 8-8, 10-6 for a few seasons knowing what we're headed towards.

RickyBobby,

I was not comparing those teams in reference to playoff status so much as "drama/organizational turmoil" status. And I forget to mention Cincinnati - 8 players arrested this season - and Chris Henry arrested 3-4 times alone.

RB- Clements is a free agent, so we can't trade our 1st rounder for him, as much as some in the front office might like to give it away just for fun anyway!

I've been repeating the same mistakes my entire life. I'm a failure.

Re: QB is everything --

I absolutely agree. The consistently good teams (Indy, Pats, Eagles, Seattle, etc) have the best QBs in the league. If JC can develop into the consistently good QB that we hope he is, the Skins will have more wins than losses during his career.

Re: the Ravens --

I watched their game last week....that defense is amazing. Just a completely different mentality than the Skins' D (even the 2004-05 SKins D) -- they expect to not only get turnovers, but they expect to score. With the bye week giving Ray, Trevor, and the other vets on that D much needed rest, they will be very hard to beat. Would love to see a Patriots-Ravens matchup. Brady could spread that D out. Would be fun.

RB, yep, he'll be a free agent on March 1. The rumor is that if he asks for Champ Bailey money, the Bills will let him walk. Or they could franchise him and try to work a trade.

The Bills are about $40M under the cap, but will probably also have to work out a new contract with McGahee. They have the #12 pick in the draft.

Lisa,

I agree that there have been worse problems on other teams. I mean, Darrent Williams is dead.

I guess it's just more frustrating because EVERYONE learns to tolerate more of the off-the field stuff when your team is winning... and we obviously are NOT.

I'm sure the off-the-field stuff in Cincy is hotter on the burner because they failed to make the playoffs.

Lisa:

here, here!

some mistakes are worse than others. . .

The ones of the QB variety really, really kill franchises. For starters it typically takes several years to figure out you made a mistake (or risk pulling the plug too early) at which point you have to hope someone like mcnair is available. Otherwise you wind up with Kurt Warner or John Kitna or shudder, Jeff George. . .

If you look at teams that have had consistency in the league it's those who don't get high on speed in March and then go out and spend on FAs.

Philly has been outstanding - last year was a disaster for a number of reasons TO being the primary but it was an exception. Why? Because Reid does not light his pants on fire every time something goes right or wrong.
Indy - consistent although with a fairly lousy d.
NE - consistent and they dump players they see as problems
Seattle - oh look what happened when Holmgren gave up GM they slowly built and built and built and low and behold they've had success - even if division change helped.
STL - had consistency for a long time and stuck with their players
TB - Dungy built that team from the ground up and Gruden just came in and got the credit and now they're not so good
Pitt - consistency consistency even through Kordell experiment
And guess who is up and coming - SF - why because a few years ago they finally figured out that throwing money at it doesn't solve the problem. Eat the cap hits and start over.
Finally I may eat my words on this one but you know if Arizona gets a solid HC I think they may turn it around although talk about an owner from hell.

Anyway I know next year is a rebuilding year and I'm going to put up a big sign that says that so I don't drink too much Kool Aid in the offseason. Do you think Fat Head sells something like that?

One thing is certain: we are all very opinionated and we all have different opinions. No one agrees on the way to fix things although there are some commonalities.

I do believe one thing - all this negative reporting will run our players away and others will not want to sign with us. Guess that will make everyone really happy (except me).

Re good QB post: What would be preferrable a "winning team" like the Colts OR some mediocrity followed by couple yrs of success ending in super win followed by more mediocrity.

Off field troubles are definitely tolerated more when teams are winning. On that thread, Grim Reaper needs to go back to thugging this coming off-season. He seems to have lost his edge being such a model citizen this past year.

Players won't sign because of negative reporting? You can't be serious.

AMEN, CP! You go guy!!!!! If anyone is listening to 980, Clinton is telling it like it is!

I am looking to see Campbell in the offense next year with CP, Moss, and ARE. There Lisa something positive.

I'll take a Superbowl win over respectability. the end goal of winning consistently is to win it all. If you don't do that you've failed. There are 12 teams that go to the playoffs every year, that's 4 short of half of the teams. making the playoffs doesn't cut it. Winningplayoff games is a start, but if you don't win the SB it's all for naught. . .

just ask the folks in Buffalo, Philly and Denver (pre-SB wins) what they would prefer. methinks that they would trade ALL of their winning seasons for just 1 lombardi trophy. . .

Lisa - I don't know if it will run players off because among other things they'll get taken to the Scrooge McDuck room and dive into the gold and swim around.

And maybe just maybe having some marquee players turn us down may be a good thing. It may be an additional wake-up call and it may mean we sign some unknowns who come in and play hard to prove themselves.

I don't know anymore. Yeah we all do have strong opinions but that's one of the reasons I love our fans and this blog.

8K - yeah I'd love a Lombardi too but I don't want to be the 1997(?) Florida Marlins.

Right now I'll take a couple of winning seasons, some playoff appearances, a shot at the division and then bring the SB.

What did CP say on the radio?

Another positive: next year can't be nearly as dissapointing as this one. I was honestly fooled this year. At least we'll be expecting the suck and maybe...just maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised.

Lisa you are so right. I am listening to CP now. Now I really have a problem with a person that not standing up. After going to CP and telling him how they feel. He needs to smack they punk a** in the back of the head. Damn I might have to go and get a CP jersey now. He is my type of player. Speak your mind and believe in yourself. Allow no one to punk you.

Thanks Lisa, although I don't know if jamie Dukes is exactly the schwam. Just so you guys don't think i am a blind optimist I know we have fo problems when it comes to evaluating or over valuing talent. The other problem is joe's fatal flaw (loyalty) what makes him a great coach also hurts him as a coach and as defacto GM. He moves far to slowly once he recognizes a problem, in personel brunell/ hall examples and on the field ie redskin football, why did it take more than half a season to get back to what he knows works. Loyalty to saunders confidence "in what we do up here works". I think Joe knows the fo needs fixing I just hope he does it this year, but based what i have seen my guess is Vinny goes next year.

Hey can those of us in the hinterlands get a summary of what CP said?
Please. We'll be your BFFs!

Well it is true. Llyod is a jackass. CP said he was the biggest fan of his. But he push everyone away including him. Keep Arch and cut Llyod ass.

yea...what did SE Jerome have to say?

Did CP just say Saunders and Gibbs don't talk?

http://www.sportstalk980.com/cc-common/streaming_new/index.html?refreshed=yes

sfskin that is the link to 980. They will replay the interview at 6pm

jm220- heard that too. take the cap hit NOW and get rid of Lloyd. Keep Arch. At least his teammates like him and he personal protects his guts out!

The Marlins were also the 2003 WS champs after beating the high priced NY Stankees

CP hates Saunders.

It will be good for this team to spend some time under the radar.

No matter what magic spells Snyder casts by way of salary cap fuzzy math, we don't seem to have too much flexibility to go on a free agent spending spree. And we certainly aren't going on a marquee coach spending spree. And I have to guess we'll stay at #6 in the draft and throw all our expectations onto the shoulders of some 22-year old dude. But that's it. Quiet, small, just a few moves.

So we'll trudge towards September keeping a relatively low profile. No prime time games. No hype. Nobody even mentions the freakin' Super Bowl during training camp.

Best thing that could happen to this team is to spend some time not getting sunshine blown up its jock strap. Deal with the reality, make it work with who we have, shut the hell up and get it done in '07.

Yes CP just said that when it comes to running plays he talk with Coach Joe. When it comes to pass plays him and Saunders don't talk. Damn JLC got to do an interview with CP.

CP is basically saying that Gibbs has an open door policy but that many players are scared to go talk with him about their issues. He thinks players talking to the media about negative things without giving their name(s) is crap. He also said that he called the Skins organization many times about keeping Ryan Clark and Antonio Pierce. He also said that he was one of Lloyd's biggest fans and wanted them to bring him here but that Lloyd has alienated players.

Clinton obviously was not in favor of bringing in Saunders. He is really laying it on the line.

I couldn't agree more Nate but it's a scary thought when you think about some of the dudes that we have- Holdman, Wright, etc.

something needs to be done for this defense

if saunders and gibbs don't talk...it makes cutting the oc easy...bring in russ grimm

if saunders and gibbs don't talk...it makes cutting the oc easy...bring in russ grimm

I couldn't agree more Nate but it's a scary thought when you think about some of the dudes that we have- Holdman, Wright, etc.

something needs to be done for this defense

I couldn't agree more Nate but it's a scary thought when you think about some of the dudes that we have- Holdman, Wright, etc.

something needs to be done for this defense

If a choice needs to be made between CP and Saunders, I'm choosing CP.

CP clearly believes in Gibbs and wants Gibbs to take control of the entire offense.

sf,

not suggesting that, especially b/c we already have 3 of those (all of which I enjoyed thoroughly).

I agree with you, that you probably need to get to respectabilty before you can win it all again. However I don't think that is all that we strive for. My concern is that we get to a point where the skins recapture the knowledge of how to win that has been lost over the last 15 years. Prior to Joe Gibbs arrival, the only similarity between this organization and the one that won the lombardi trophies is the name. that's it.

For those of you in your 20's and early 30's, I think you would feel much differently about this if you had lived through mediocrity and then through having high expectations every year and actually winnin it all multiple times. So I totally understand the dissatisfaction.

If all I had to fall back on were these last 15 years I would be way more bitter.

This is exactly why we need to get on a track that is, above all, sustainable. I don't want another 15 years like the last 15 years after Gibbs leaves (which will happen). . .

At least we aren't lions fans since they are keeping Millen for his 7th season.

yikes...sorry for the triple post. My connection got effed up.

CP said that he pulled himself out because he was hurt. He also thank Doc for pointing out that when he was in they had him going side to side and not down hill. Which he said he was never a side to side runner. That when Campbell and Betts started they start doing the down hill running. Damn he is really coming with it.

He said the "core redskins" were cartwright, thrash and taylor.

One note on Grimm, for all of us who love thinking about him coming in here as HC someday...

We'd better hope that when the Steelers job comes open, Grimm is NOT hired, because that franchise's track record indicates that Steelers head coaches stick around a very long time.

On the other hand, those of us who are Grimm fans would be happy for him to land that great job instead of coming to work for Mr. Snyder.

heck of an interview. hopefully they podcast it so I can listen again to digest fully.

CP is a man. I hope Gibbs listens to what he has to say and makes the difficult, uncomfortable decisions that need to be made to turn this thing around.

let's get one thing straight...cp is clearly a better running back than lb. lb maybe fits gibbs style better because of his size, but he has an undeniable penchant for putting the ball on the ground at critical times. in my opinion cp is one of the top five backs in the league and capable of turning a game around any time he touches the ball. he has more heart than anyone on the team and is fearless. we cannot afford to underestimate his importance as a player and leader. i wonder how the players feel about the two backs?

I just want to be in the hunt every December for now. Tired of our season being realisticly over at Thanksgiving unless we win 6 straight and like 5 other teams lose 5 of 6. Its the thrill of the chase where every game really means something and you need to watch like 3 or 4 other games because you need team x to beat y.That is what it is all about. Then when that gets old you want to win it all

sf: you can usually get an mp3 of the CP segment on the 980 website. probably not for another day or so though. I wll be looking or it as i missed much of the discussion today. . .

also thinking about changing my moniker to skisfan@8KaboveMSL, at least until after easter as, from what I hear, the snow is very good so far this year. . .

Thanks for the summaries peeploggers and for the 6pm replay heads up jm.

8K - I think we're both basically coming to the same conclusion. I started as an aware fan right when Gibbs 1.0 came in. I knew we weren't always going to be kings of the hill and so I was ready for the bust after the boom but this has been a long bust and you and a lot of others have talked about the mentality of winning vs. losing. So yeah we need some momentum and some winning to get back to the winning mentality and then I'll clamor for an SB.

"let's get one thing straight...cp is clearly a better running back than lb."

Is there really a dispute about this? It's not even arguable if you ask me.

Its venting time at Redskins' PArk!!!

You have to take these articles into prospective. Don't trust them 100%. Hopefully CP says the same thing in the locker room that he said on the show................

RB, yep, he'll be a free agent on March 1. The rumor is that if he asks for Champ Bailey money, the Bills will let him walk. Or they could franchise him and try to work a trade.

The Bills are about $40M under the cap, but will probably also have to work out a new contract with McGahee. They have the #12 pick in the draft.

Posted by: Joe in Raleigh | January 2, 2007 05:01 PM

Well, there is the Redskins' answer!!!

1) Get Buffalo to franchise Clements.

2) Swap Clements and the #12 pick to the Skins for the #6 pick. Throw Grilliams in with the deal so Buffalo can re-fix their defense.

3) Pay Clements whatever Champ is making.

Many problems solved at once.

Oh, I forgot - the Redskins don't have a GM who could conceptualize and then pull off his deal.

Skins pick sixth in the draft. It can be argued that, given the season was a shambles anyway, winning that coin flip over the Jags and the fluke punt block v. Dallas amounted to BAD luck, keeping the team from picking third...

Denver got the better of the Portis trade, but it was not a bad trade. We got 1 high quality player who has been a high quality player. And is still young. Broncos got 1 top quality player who has been excellent and a 2nd rounder who has been productive. Did we give up too much? Yes but it is hardly a disaster. Plus we had a major hole at RB. You want bad? Try the Lloyd and Ramsey trades. GIve up something and get nothing.

sf:

this bust period has lasted as long as my marriage. . .

Let's just say that I hope my marriage outlives this period!!!

Took my wife to a skins game for the first time since Fedex opened and we actualy had a good time, so hope springs eternal w/r to her getting into football someday. . .

You and Lisa should hook up and figure out a football marketing program to get more women into enjoying the sport. I hear there's a marketing guy in seatle who can also helo as he's looking for the next thing to do . . .

One suggestion is to make sure it is the guys/significant others who get billed for the service. . .

I think there are a few peeps on this blog who'd be willing to trade their season tiks in for a chance at getting the wife/significant other into enjoying the NFL and you two clearly seem qulified to provide some insight. . .

I totally ageee skinsfan. I would be way more frustrated and call for everyone's head if I hadn't seen the glory years really starting with George Allen and running throught to Gibbs I. That was a great twenty years.

I will say you can't have the inmates the show, they need to play and thats it the last thing we need is the players to dictate who we sign, who we keep. As crazy as that sounds with our current FO they need to be in control and not let CP or any one else be the GM.

AL- Or better yet, try the Lloyd and Duckett trades!

Espn insider has something about rumors that Springs may be "nearing the end of his time with the Redskins" not sure what to think about that.

Old School,

I agree. I'm tired of meaningless games in December. Last year was too much fun.

I can't believe one of the most storied franchises in the history of sports can't even give it's fans meaningful football games down the stretch on a consistent basis.

See, I don't remember those days. The last time the Skins won the Super Bowl I was in middle school. That means all through high school, all through college, and all through my 5-6 years post-college, we've only had 1 home playoff game. That's ages 13-28, a lot of those being prime party ages, and all I have is 1 measly home playoff game. Man....

CP also said that Clark was a "core Skins". Stayed until 9 at night watching the film. (even brought his son in so he could watch the film) Came in early in the morning. I can't wait until they replay that interview.

Ocho Ocho I like your trade idea. What does Buffalo need that they'll want the 6th for? Losman is coming into to his own maybe another WR or RB?

Not that we have anything to offer but would we be stupid enough to try and trade up in the draft?

8K - I'm not sure why there aren't more XX's who are such addicted fans like Lisa or Megskin or me. I will say that playing sports probably made a big difference in my fandom. Also I LOVE competition even if on the losing side. Thus generally a bigger fan of team sports than individual. I'm also a big ole sucker for fairy tale stories. Finally watching the human body in motion is quite delightful especially when it is at top level so I love to dance and to watch the dancing. That's why I think the greatest sport to watch (and play since I did) is women's lacrosse. It's poetry in motion and ballet on the field.

Sounds like CP really lit it up on the radio. Do we think he was "let off the leash"? I know he is a stand-up guy and someone who'll speak his mind and probably knows he doesn't have much to worry about but it sounds like he covered it all.

Did he say anything about defense?

Espn insider has something about rumors that Springs may be "nearing the end of his time with the Redskins" not sure what to think about that.

Posted by: sfskin | January 2, 2007 06:00 PM

SF_

I saw something else on that also, a day or two ago. It was related to Shawn's age and injury history compared to his salary cap number. If you determine his cost/game based on the actual number games he played this year, his salary is excessive compared to the best players at the position. (Apparently there is some magic formula that GM's use to determine a player's future value, based on cost/game played.) In any case, the numbers apparently don't look very good for Shawn.

Of course, none of that even takes into consideration how Shawn feels regarding his career (how much longer does he want to play, given the injury issue) and does he even want to continue to play for the Skins, especially with the current awful state of the defense. Lots of the best players want a chance to win a SB ring before they retire. It's doubtful that will happen for Shawn in D.C.

RB:

I hear you on the mediocrity and the overall cost of the fedex experience.

However, I gotta say that despite the expensive club seats and the $8 beers I had a pretty good time at the jints game. Specially as it basically went right down to the end. BTW - gotta thank that ref for the phantom PI call on da reap, otherwise we're picking 10-11th vs 6th.

I have to say that I was impressed to see everyone on their feet and screaming their guts out in a meaningless (for us) game. That was real heartwarming to see. Maybe it's that we hate the jints so much, maybe it's because everyone was drunk. Whatever the reason, it was fun to be a part of. RFK used to rock and I never thought that Fedex did, but I have to admit that has changed in the last year or so and that is definitely a positive in my mind. . .

amazing what a playoff win will do for you. . .

Actually, Portis said he did not know if Gibbs and Saunders talk because he is not in their offices. But he definitely liked what they had going on last season. He also said that Campbell needs to be turned loose to throw the deep ball. Campbell is being restrained so he will not make mistakes.

sfskin, Springs has a big contract and most likely it will need to be restructured for him to stay. I hope he does but he will probably want to test the market.

sfskin they are about to replay the CP interview.

One thing about Portis - I personally don't believe he would have been as forthcoming if he had played this season.

Kelli Johnson w/Comcast is doing an interview with Gibbs tonight and tomorrow night. Gonna check that out as well.

"Ocho Ocho I like your trade idea. What does Buffalo need that they'll want the 6th for? Losman is coming into to his own maybe another WR or RB?

Not that we have anything to offer but would we be stupid enough to try and trade up in the draft?"

Buffalo has a solid RB, but I believe they need a #1 WR, and also need help in the offensive and defensive lines. (Seems like most teams are always looking for the next Merriman, for example.) I don't really know if they would try to move up, but you don't know if you don't ask.

As for the Skins, there is no point to moving up, due to the high salary implications of a higher pick, but nothing seems to stop the Skins' stupidity on this issue. Danny needs to close his wallet this year and demand that they trade down for picks, if possible. We would be far better off if we could get a low 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd for the #6 pick, even if that means dropping down in the draft several times. No picks = no depth.

There should be a few teams looking to move up this year, since there are relatively few high-quality QB's, CB,s and DE's this year. (I don't care what they say - I've seen Quinn of ND play several times - he reminds me of Heath Shuler.) But the preliminary view is that the draft will be deep for good players; i.e., players who can start as rookies and do a good job, rather than superstars who will be game-changers. So it might be the best kind of year to move down and pick up additional picks.

I am still skeptical about the Redskins ability to do the draft intelligently, however. Without a strong and independent GM, I can imagine the following headline:

"Gibbs trades all 2007 draft picks away for Shutdown Corner"

At that point, I will probably download the schedule for the upcoming season of Women's Lacrosse.

I'm outta here - have a good evening!

One thing about Portis - I personally don't believe he would have been as forthcoming if he had played this season.

Lisa I disagree with you. I remember earlier in the year when he was playing. He was the same on Coach John T show.

Joe in Raleigh,

Are you the same Joe in Raleigh that is known as "Joe in Raleigh" that calls "850 The Buzz" radio sports station down here? I am originally from DC and the surrounding area, but came down to Raleigh 7 years ago and "Joe in Raleigh" has become one of the best known callers in the sports radio community here. So, I cannot help but wonder. ;)

As for off-season moves, a lot of people have covered it well. Though, I really think it would be wise to trade the #1 pick down and get 3-4 early to mid-rounders in return to bolster depth, especially on D and the OL.

I said over at ExtremeSkins during preseason that the two areas the Skins could least afford to have injuries was the O Line and secondary. Between Clark going to the Steelers, then Springs getting hurt in preseason and then Pearson getting hurt on the opening play, you knew things were going to be dicey, especially seeing that they have so little of a pass rush. I will say that we lucked out on the O Line, but depth there is still critical, seeing that the starting line is not getting any younger.

On the offensive philosophy front, I think it will be Gibbs' smash-mouth/throw deep approach that will carry the day. It worked for him in the past and should work in the future, as the O Line is built for it and the team has two stud backs. Actually, it really all goes back to the Lombardi offense of, as he called it, "grinding meat" and then going deep to keep defenses honest. Shula ran basically the same thing in the early 70's with Csonka, Kiick and Morris and Warfield. Noll did pretty much the same thing with Franco and Blier, Swann and Stallworth. If you have the horses, it will work just about everytime, in spite of Space Age passing games and Bear 46 blitz happy defenses.

I do hope that Gibbs sticks with it.

I've seen Quinn of ND play several times - he reminds me of Heath Shuler.)

Ocho-Ocho I agree on Quinn. When he played some of the better teams he didn't look that great. I hoping the Raiders don't pick him. But with my luck they will and he will suck.

w/r to draft

I would only move down if we cannot get a solid pass rushing DE at 6.

AMTTS/Gov/other draftniks out there - I love Laron Landry, but we need some serious help at MLB as well as depth at CB. . .Is there a reasonable scenario where we could trade down to middle of the first round, add a 2nd/3rd round pick and still get a pass rushing DE? Isn't that where Freeney was picked?

clarification:

if we can't get a DE at 6, movin down to 11 and picking up Laron Landry is a possibility, I guess. However, if we trade down my guess is that we probably need to address our MLB spot before we add another safety. . .

hold on, isn't buffalo picking 11th? or did someone already suggest that . . .

i just heard the whole CP interview. WOW! if any of you needed a named source to validate all the annonymous sources you got it in CP. He agreed/validated everything Jason wrote in his articles.

I can't see CP and Weird Al coexisting.

Jason was just on Comcast being interviewed by Kelli Johnson about the articles.

In Kelli's interview with Gibbs, she asked him if Portis would be traded. He said absolutely not...they love Clinton...he is their "bell cow."

Lisa did JLC say the same things he said on 980?

looking at kiper's big board and there are 2 highly ranked DEs

Gaines Adams - Clemson
Adam Carriker - Nebraska
Lemarr Woodley - Michigan
Quentin Moses - Georgia

Are those guys Pass rushers or similar to the guys we already have?

also LaronLandy is #6 on kiper's board. . .

maybe we can engineer a trade down and get Lamarr Woodley(kiper has him ranked 14) Adam Carriker (kiper ranks him #8) or Quentin Moses (kiper ranks him #23)? what would that get us?

who has a link to a points chart?

Yes, Jason was saying the same things. Mike Wise (another WashPo reporter) was also on there. They both said that the Skins need to hire a GM or someone to be in control with a title to be named.

This thing is beginning to take on a Woodward/Bernstein effect...."All The Redskins Men"

skinsfan@8KaboveMSL my vote is for Woodley. I say trade back and and pick up a 2nd or 3rd round pick as well. Get Woodley and pick up another player.

Hey all -- I've missed a week of posts and blog chatter and speculation (blatter and blogulation?) so apologies if I've missed some great haikus, arguments, and killer lines by the usual suspects. Family holiday time followed by New Year's Eve recovery time will do that to a guy, even the Poet Bard!

I love you all! Happy New Year!

In my never-ending goal to broaden the horizons of my fellow man, it should be noted that over on the Celebritology blog, Liz Kelly contemplated (albeit briefly) taking over Dan Froomkin's White House Briefing blog.

This got me thinking...if we can't get a Redskins Insider/DateLab crossover going, can we get Liz to come over here and dish on the goings on of our favorite 'Skins players? Or, better yet, have Jason go over there and blog about Britney Spears.

Speaking of which, I heard a great new porn star name: Britney Rears. Gotta love it.

Can you tell it's the offseason? I'm just trying to distract us from wonking out on the draft points value chart.

I also want to add that Death Cab for Cutie and James Blunt are horrible.

I also want to add that Death Cab for Cutie and James Blunt are horrible.

Posted by: P Diddy | January 2, 2007 07:35 PM

I don't know who James Blunt is, so he gets a pass for now.

I have heard Death Cab. (No comment.) Interestingly, they are sometimes billed as "Portland Oregon's Finest".

Finest what? Certainly can't be music, can it?. And if it is, what does that mean for the rest of music in Portland???

Perhaps we have inadvertantly discovered the reason that craft brewing and brew pubs are so popular there - drunk people aren't as picky about good music.

lisa, i need a favor. i don't watch much skins on comcast. my only news source is wapo and skins.com.

i was wondering how you know when they'll air something to do with skins? could you please give me a schedule so i could set my dvr? you'll be an enabler but this addict needs his fix bad.

thank you very much in advance!

i'm contemplating signing up for espn since they always get the scoop that's everything skins. and for kiper's draft board. actually i'm hoping you guys will provide us with that info?

Diddy, you are obviously a mouth-breathing, knuckle-dragging philistine if you don't appreciate James Blunt! Kidding, but I don't really think they suck, it's just music for the fairer sex.

Now Coldplay sucks, and sorry so did/do The Eagles.

This thing is beginning to take on a Woodward/Bernstein effect...."All The Redskins Men"

Posted by: Lisa | January 2, 2007 07:16 PM

Does that mean the anonymous source in the Friend article a few weeks ago should now be referred to as "Deep Jock"?

James Blunt sings that "You're Beautiful" song that sounds like a constipated falsetto who is having his bits and pieces mauled by an angry cat.

Portland is a very, very, very weird city. I don't get anything about it.

The whole Northwest is full of passive-aggressive types (which, let me tell you, would drive ANY east coast person INSANE). Portland is not only passive-aggressive, but full of people with seemingly nothing to do. I remember smiling and asking someone in a restaurant, "How's it going?" At which point, they told me for something like fifteen minutes. And not a single bit of it was interesting.

But they have no sales tax and some pretty decent high end shopping, so that's a bonus.

They also have a pretty substantial population of very high young men standing on street corners.

And, I am going to strangle whoever bought Death Cab for Cutie on my iTunes AND stuck them in ALL of my playlists.

dealer,

You can usually find snippets of the Comcast sports stuff here: http://midatlantic.comcastsportsnet.com/video.asp?category=redskins

And, dealer, welcome to the Strawberry Shortcake fan club :-)

James Blunt sings that "You're Beautiful"

I like that song. P have I just ruined my image? lol

dealer,

Comcast will most likely re-air the 6:30 pm progam tonight at 10:00. That show had Part 1 of Kelli's interview with Gibbs and then later an interview with both JLC and Mike Wise.

Part 2 of Kelli's interview with Gibbs will air tomorrow night at 6:30.

I'm in month three of a half-assed study of the Portland music scene -- trying to hit at least one live show a week, especially now that the Skins have prematurely given me back a four-hour chunk of weekend free time per week, making it much easier to bargain with Mrs. Nate as far as toddler care sharing -- and will keep you all posted.

I definitely don't get Death Cab's huge success. In any case, they are a National act now. The Decemberists are on the ascent as well but still very much in and of Portland. And they are good.

Diddy, are you being serious about Ms. Shortcake or just pulling our legs? I used to be her only advocate on the board, but I was just trying to encourage people to be less cruel in their criticism of her. You make it sound like she's sent you over the moon.

thank you justme and lisa.

diddy, i'm not only a member but also the president of SS fan club. :)

dr. 90210 is a guilty pleasure...i'm sleepy again...

btw, diddy, i took a daytime nap today. WoW! it refreshes your whole body! i do it again!

does post or espn have "signup for skins updates to cellphone" thingie?

I (heart) Strawberry Shortcake. :-)

Wow, the girl I'm "hanging out with" spent all day on the couch watching "Dr. 90210" on the TiVo. Strange fascination.

dealer, I think you can get RSS updates on 'Skins stuff from the Post.

As for the concern about Portland raised above, I will acknowledge that it's not for everyone. But Mrs. Nate and I undertook an exhaustive search and picked this fair city above all the others in this great land of ours (emigration to Canada being too complicated).

I've heard Portland leads the nation in per capita consumption of microbrews AND of Pabst Blue Ribbon. And it has an absurd amount of strip clubs for those interested in such things. Lots of fleece clothing, relatively high amounts of piercings, tats, and dreadlocks. Plenty of stoners and freaks, yes. Light but steady rain for 6-8 months straight, and then a glorious summer.

It's a small, post-industrial city with a lot of character, not unlike Baltimore. Good parks, good cafes, decent restaurants (we're hardly high-end people), numerous colleges, plenty of live music venues, a healthy light rail system, bridges crisscrossing the Willamette, and generally left-of-center politics. It has one big-league team (Blazers), AAA baseball in a downtown stadium, minor league hockey, soccer and lax, not to mention the state unis' Ducks and Beavers.

All right, that's more than anyone wanted to hear about Portland. We like it. We've decided to raise Nathan Jr. and his eventual siblings here.

(And given Portland's remove from greater DC, it bears noting that this blog is my lifeline to Redskin Nation.)

dealer, Diddy, I mentioned waaaaay back that I met Kelli Johnson at