So much has changed in the NFL since Gibbs I, probably more changes since then than all the changes between Lombardi and Gibbs I, that the ability to compare coaches over time becomes harder and harder. Its has changed what it means to coach. I wonder how many coordinators, assistants, etc. were on staff back then compared to now. Technology alone has imposed a new set of qualifications on coaches ... instant replays, challenges, miked helmets, digital game film, instant photos, Madden '07 (just kidding). The ways rules have changed has changed the ways offenses/defenses are designed ... probably more frequently in recent years than the first few decades. Whatever happened to clipping and spearing? Free agency -- and this probably has been said a million times -- may have made long-term dynasties impossible. I think the only thing that remains consistent is that the best, greatest coaches, are the ones who are able to keep up and be a LITTLE better than the other guy. I love that about football; you either win or lose. Its still a coliseum sport.

Mark, great success.

I like where you listed what you hope from the team every year. I think this is a good excercise for all of us. Here's what I expect every year; it's just one thing:

Do NOT Lie to me. That's it. The simple truth. Do not tell me Super Bowl after making terrible decisions in the off-season.
Don't tell me the kid is the future when he runs the scout team, holds a clip board, and doesn't have a coach actually coach him for nearly 3 years.
Don't tell me the old left handed QB without arm strength can take us anywhere.
Don't tell me the severely undertalented defense can stop anyone because the scheme is so great.
Don't tell me that the preseason doesn't mean anything.
Don't tell me that you're a genius when the other guy has figured out how to beat you and you don't change a thing!
I'm going to stop before I have a stroke. Just don't lie and I'll be the happiest fan in fanland.

I've said this before so it's not just because of his current success, Marty Schottenheimer could have worked in DC. Curse you Steve Spurrier! But seriously, look at the make up of San Diego. Portis and Tomlinson have similar running abilities. Rivers and Campbell are both promising young QBs. If Washington had retained their defensive talent... I don't think Pierce and Merriman are all that much the same but Pierce led the defense much like Merriman leads his defense. Okay, so I don't have all the information in front of me, but the point is Schottenheimer was 8-8 his only year in Washington. Turner had actually left him with a decent team and if he and Snyder could have worked out some kind of "on the same page-manship" (what does that even mean?) things might not have been so long in coming for a successful team make-up. Martyball is alive and well after a few years of stability, some smart draft decisions and a lack of recklessness involving FA spending. Its not so simple, I know, but when I saw Schottenheimer's name I couldn't help but look back at how excited I was to see him try and turn things around and how disappointed I was to see Spurrier come in and fail. All we can play is "what if" games at this point.

I agree that marty would have had success here. Keep in mind however that he works with a really good GM in San Diego. Here, he was the GM so we're not comparing apples to apples. We don't know what he would have done with full control. (He did have the good sense to can Vinnie when he got here, so there's a plus)

Still, I would have liked to have seen what he could have done here with a little more time.

Also, it's worth noting on the super bowl list that Baltimore/Indianapolis is 1-1 in the big game and Baltimore/Cleveland is 1-0.

Great big picture perspective Mark. I think most everyone on the blog is 'glass half full' despite the consistent stream of venom we spew.

My frustration stems from most of what #81TTS touched upon. The attitude and approach taken by this group of coaches can be downright insulting from a fan's perspective. It's inexcusable that for his 2 years in the league, Campbell did not get more snaps in practice throughout his developmental stage. The guy doesn't know how to SLIDE?!! C'mon!

I'd like to see Collins as our official #2. Brunell is SCARED when he's under center...his series the other night was embarassing. He was a fighter for us but he has no more in the tank. I'll continue to be patient and give Gibbs the benefit of the doubt but would like some honesty and transparency in the way he carries the team.

For now, I'll pass the time until March watching all those tremendous playoff and SB wins from Gibbs I era on DVD.

Deadskins will never going any further than the first round of the playoffs every decade or so with Danny Boy as owner.As he cares about his maximizing his return and the bottom line. He told me this after a few drinks at a charity fundraiser his wife was involved in. My lady dragged me there too.

You all might want to check your sources on Wall Street and in banking a certain owner is exploring the waters for selling the team since he feels the return on his investment will not match the previous five years for the next 5 years going forward.

This maybe the only hope for you Deadskin fans. Until then enjoy a crappy team with a coach who should have known comebacks just dont work in Sports. Successful comebacks are rare. Who has had one MJ? Yeah when he returned from baseball. Other than that they are few and far between. Loser coach and stupid owner enjoy.

AMTTS stated
"Don't tell me the kid is the future when he runs the scout team, holds a clip board, and doesn't have a coach actually coach him for nearly 3 years."

How did a 1 1/2 years on the "bench" turn in to almost 3 years? I'm not good at math but that is a stretch.....

Mark: An interesting blog and a very good set of reasons to keep things in perspective. I also started following the Skins more than 50 years ago. Before that I was a Browns fan (grew up in Ohio). Of course, the Browns played the Skins twice a year back then and usually beat them. Paul Brown was the coach and owner of the Browns and had amassed a very talented squad that probably would have made the playoffs as we know them now for 10 or 15 consecutive years.

I pretty much stayed a Browns fan until Vince Lombardi was brought in as head coach. After that I followed the skins right through until now.

I don't see many coaches out there who would be much better than Joe Gibbs at this point. He signed a 5 year contract and I believe he will (at least) honor it. I don't think that he is the type of person who will quit until he accomplishes what he set out to do. After all we endured seven years of Norv Turner with only one playoff appearance.

I agree with Mark - I think that Marty ball was beginning to work. It was obvious from watching the games near the end of his one season that the players had responded to his system and that it was working. I almost fell over when he was fired and replaced with Spurrier. What a ding dong he turned out to be in the pros.

I still have hopes for the Gibbs II.

vaherder,

I don't know if you were trying to put us down but if the wall street sources are correct, that's the best news I've ever read on this blog.

vaherder - Dick Vermiel didn't do too badly in his comeback. He was out as long as Gibbs and did very well both in St. Louis and Kansas City.

vaherder, I wonder whether Skins fans could buy and own the team like they do in Green Bay. If so, I'm guessing that, unlike the cost of the Packers when the fans ponied up the cash, we might need a quite few lotto winners among us to pull it off for the price Mr. $nyder would seek.

This will be Joe Gibb's last year as Skins coach. Bill Cowher will be the new coach after next season and Danny Boy will make him the first $10 mil/year coach. Guaranteed!

Rob, no way. Dan $nyder will not pay Grilliams the extra $1M required under his contract if denied the right of first refusal (and if Gibbs moves on, Grilliams will not refuse the HC job).

Well played, Lisa.

Dan Snyder will not pay G Williams the extra $1mil???? Come on dcsween we all know that $1mil is chump change to him and he would not hesistate to pay him out to get Cowher to come here as coach. It's going to be a bidding war between Dallas and Washington for Cowher's services when Gibbs and Parcell's walk away next year.

Rob, one thing Joe Gibbs is not is a liar. He signed a 5-year contract and he will honor it. Nick Saban, he is not.

Already we digress.

dc, Good points about how the coaching landscape has changed. I'd like to expand on that. With all of the different changes or variables introduced, it seems that it has become much harder for a coach to really make his mark on a team. More specifically, coaches seem to be less able to give a team an identity.

I'd say that Gibbs got very close to doing so last season, but I think he blinked and really took some lack of offensive success to heart. Personally, I think he complicated a problem that could have been solved simply with a couple of better wide receivers to compliment Moss. Unfortunately, the severe second guessing caused him to radically change the makeup of the coaching arrangement which brought him further away from being able to instill a team identity. This essentially gave us our 5-11 season. It was only toward the end of this season where I think we saw flashes of Gibbs' influence coming back. The offensive lines and special teams became stronger and we had inspired quarterback play and a stellar running game.

With all of the new variables of today's NFL, Gibbs added more variables instead of trying to take some away. We got further from the goal, but as I stated yesterday, we'll be back with a little continuity.

Impatience is the biggest drawback in any organization. The successful franchises keep at the same thing, making adjustments here and there. They adapt without taking the whole thing apart and trying to put it back together. The coach of the times, Bill Bellicheck, is constantly adapting to all of the variables. I think Gibbs can do it too. He always talks about how he is learning.

Nice job, Mark... but unfortunately some of us are too young to remember some of the highlights you asked us to remember. While you have some of these great memories to hang onto during losing season after losing season, some of us do not.

In other news, who saw KJ ask the Space Cowboy on playing young players.? The 2nd or 3rd player he mentioned was Reed Doughty. HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Are you serious, Joe? A special teams guy? Reed has played well, but it is almost mandatory that a 5th round rookie plays special teams.

Mark, you argument from the past is running on fumes my man. In the business world we call it "resting on your priors" and it gets old "super fast".

I'm 33. I was just out of high school when the Skins did the Superbowl thing last and not in a position to go to a game. Essentially my whole adult working life I've wanted to go (and now take my sons, age 9 and 12) to a home play-off game.

Start telling me when we are going to get a home play-off game. Start telling me when I can be proud of the defense and when the Redskins will field an offensive team and coaching staff that is on the right side of a national media campaign like Philly, Dallas, Chicago, Green Bay, and the Patriots. I get sick of the announcers, magazines, etc. downing the Skins all the time..it's hard to explain to young fans.

Whatever it takes to be that..that's what I want Joe Gibbs to provide. To echo Marky Brunel 'Anything less will be a disappointment'.

Not Buying It,

Couldn't agree more.

This morning ESPN radio was going over Bill Cowher's career as HC in Pitt, which I believe was 15 years. This marks the exact point, 1992, that our franchise hit the skids.

In his 15 years, Pittsburgh fans have enjoyed 10 playoff appearances... 10!!!!! Us you ask? 2...

They have played in 21 playoff games!!! Us you ask? 4...

I don't know how many homes game playoff games that's been, but I know it's a hell of a lot more than the 1 we've had over the last 15 years...

We are a joke. We have joined the ranks of Detroit, Cleveland, Arizona, and Oakland and it disgusts me.

Enjoy ANOTHER home playoff game Eagle fans! Enjoy ANOTHER home playoff game Pats fans! We've had 1 in 15 years. It's sickening.

Is anyone else curious about Brunell's shoulder surgery? Something tells me the midweek rest he was getting after the first two games of the season was not to rest his legs...

what kills me is that you don't have to be that good to go to the playoffs any more ... or more precisely, how many bad teams are going to the playoffs this year ... how did KC defy the odds and actually live up to the pre-season hype and make it THIS year? how (why) are the giants even breathing? is that just tiki's death gasps? shehawks? dallas? how do you actually pick a winner of those two sucks?

C Money,

I know it makes me wonder. And looking back, it makes sense. Dink and dunk, dink and dunk. Brunell also knew this was it for him... this was his last hurrah... did he put his own interests above the team because of this? I guess only him and sweet baby Jesus know the answer to that.

CMoney, I was surprised that it was a sidenote in the article about Daniels's ankle surgery. Seems like pretty big news to me since it's his throwing arm.

I think we take for granted that an upgrade at receiver would automatically mean bombs away with Brunell at QB. Nobody was afraid of Brunell throwing deep.

Sportstalk 980 is speculating that Portis may be traded to the JETS for Vilma. I'm not saying it's a good idea, but Portis has been whining a lot lately, and Betts just plays!!!!!!!!!

dcsween,

nice post the other day.

and I couldn't agree more with your last post. Your team is obviously in the bottom 1/4 of the league when you only make the playoffs twice in 15 years in this salary cap era. I mean seriously, can we go back and see if our 2 appearances are the worst in the NFL? I'm betting that it is.... and that makes me want to throw up EVERYWHERE.

But hey Space Cowboy, keep believeing that "we're going about things the right way UP HERE". Keep saying that you have been the best team in free agency over the last 3 years when NONE, zippy, ZERO of your acquistions have been to the Pro Bowl. You have also let guys like Pierce go to a division rival while adding guys like Archuleta and Lloyd for MORE freaking money. Keep saying you've built through the draft, then mentioned Reed Doughty 2nd when asked to name the young players that play on this team. It's sad that he is this delusional.

The Jets would be stupid to make that trade. Vilma is a beast. Portis is too, but let's be honest, he maybe plays 3 or 4 more years and then retires to South Beach.

I'll have to crunch the salary cap ramifications of a Portis trade, but I would imagine it would be too costly to do anything this year -- especially if Archie or Lil' TO gets dumped.

If they trade Portis, I'm done. Out. He is a redskin thru and thru. My hope is that this is something talk radio is using to fill the airwaves at a slow time.

We need a GM. We need a GM. We need a GM.

That is the response to 90% of the issues & problems that have been raised so far today.

Continuinty? Get a GM
Consistency? Get a GM
Make the playoffs? Get a GM

Gibbs has no qualifications to be a GM whatsoever. If anything, the few times in the past he played GM, he failed badly. (coughcoughDesmondHowardcoughcough)

It's obvious to everyone except us that Gibbs is one of the worst GM's in the league. We manage to get our hopes up each offseason as a new crop of free agents are brought in. We convince ourselves that THIS time the quick fix will work.

Well, guess what? It's been proven pretty conclusively that it can't. We value draft picks less than any team in the league. We sign more free agents than any team in the league. And since 1993, we have the 6th worst record in the league.

We need a GM
We need a GM
We need a GM

That is problem #1 for this franchise.

Jeff,

I agree, but if you're the Skins and you can afford the cap hit associated with a trade, I think you need to look at anything, especially a trade involving DRAFT PICKS (WTF are those?).

As much as Joe denied Portis being moved, I can't help but think that his interview on 980 two days ago has changed some minds over there at the Park.

let me see if I can get this straight cumulatively: Champ + 2nd rounder + Clinton Portis =
one Vilma ??

F*ck that with a rusty shovel. Clinton is one of the few bright spots we've had in recent history. To trade him (let alone for another player and not picks) would be absolutely absurd.

6th worst team = 2nd highest ticket prices. AWESOME!!!

I wouldn't mind paying what we pay, and even a little higher, if we won. But that hasn't been the case in, oh I don't know, 15 years!!!!!!! Okay, maybe twice, but still....

If we can get Portis's contract off the books and get a player of Vilma's caliber on our Defense, I would do it in a heartbeat. If the Skins were smart they would get the Jets to throw in a draft pick. The Skins could then resign Duckett and then draft a big stud on the DLine and hopefully sign Nate Clements to the secondary and get Springs to move to Safety.

We talk about the same things every day. I wonder if SallieMae ever found a roomate?

Loved the blathering about Conan yesterday. Good stuff...

Much better than the "Get a GM", "____ must go!", and "Trade/Don't Trade Portis" talk.

This is CRAZY talk...part with Duckett now. Class act, but let's put the whole debacle behind us. The dude is soo slow to hit the hole it's painful.

If the skins trade Portis they are setting themselves up for another total disaster. Offseason headlines followed by a regular season trainwreck.

Betts has averaged close to one game- changing fumble per game. In the NFL, that's all it takes to lose. Especially in the ultraconservative Gibbs approach.

Defenses fear Portis, respect his abilities...set their gameplans around him. That opens things up in other parts of the field. Does anyone remember how he strapped the team to his back and carried us through 5 straight W's down the stretch?

Betts has not proven he is capable of such a feat. You guys should be ashamed.

Vote for Clinton!

http://www.nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/9907959

:-)

Darren Sharper did awesome work for NFL Network last post-season.

Jeff,

Gibbs was interviewed on Comcast and stated emphatically that Clinton was not being traded. He was quite adamant about it. Honestly, these radio sports reporters do not know any more than we do....for example, Czaban will never be let into Redskins Park.

However, Clinton's stock may have went down with the Skins after he went off on 980 the other day. Still, despite his tirade, trading him away would start the fans talking again about how we always trade away our "core players" and would really be a stupid move at this time.

Heck, why wouldn't the Jets want to trade a young defensive playmaker to get a guy with an injury history at the most undervalued position in the NFL?!

And we would be crazy not to trade the public face of our team and a "true Redskin" who leaves it all on the field in order to rely on a guy who has had 1 injury free season in 4 in a run heavy offense!

Call them up Danny, Strike while the iron is HOT!

Lisa,

As much as I say that the Skins need to look at everything, I agree... trading CP NOW would only be doing exactly what he went on 980 and proclaimed that this team does... trade away its core players.

If made, which is of course speculation, I can't see it being a popular move amongst team members, no matter what we received in return.

Thank you Lisa...stupid indeed. I imagine a closed door meeting and spiritual game plan with St Joe will cure whatever lingering wounds exist from the 980 episode.

Living in NY, it's hard for me to tell how controversial the appearance really was.

...now back to Conan and other ridiculousness...

I am tired of venting. I have decided to sit back and wait to pass final judgement on Gibbs II and the currenrt front office structure (competence) until Gibbs leaves after the full 5yrs. I reserve the right to comment on what I think maybe a stupid move at any time but the full and final judegement will come at the end of term the record will be what ever it is and we can say it is better or worse and we are on or off the right track.

What did CP say on 980?

Jeff,

Actually, Clinton was not going off on Gibbs - he said that Gibbs door is always open for players to come and talk about what "ails" them. He was basically responding to 980's questions candidly and probably should have been a bit more reserved :-) It was pretty evident he does not have a relationship with Saunders.

READ ME well. I am OPPOSED to Clinton Portis -- the de facto deputy GM and identity of the Skins -- going to the Jets!

That said, maybe some of the trade talk is being perpetuated by CP himself (or more likely, his agent). While the Skins are looking at a double stud RB offense next year, it seems to be widely accepted that Portis does not get along real well with Saunders. Gibbs can scream at the top of his lungs (not sure he has ever done that) that CP will not be traded, but Gibbs isn't the only decider (as it turns out, W is the decider, but I digress).

IF Portis goes to the Jets for Vilma (and that is a huge undesirable if), I'm thinking that that trade does not release that much cap pressure.

[Now is the part where I start talking out of my @$$ b/c I don't know Vilma's contract numbers. In 2004, before training camp, Pastabelly reported that Vilma "signed a five-year contract worth $10.3 million, two days before players report for the start of camp. There is no signing bonus, but Vilma will get a reporting bonus of $1.22 million and then an option bonus of $6.03 million next spring. He also can earn maximum escalators that total $3.9 million."] Vilma's contract does not come cheap, but its good for a couple more seasons.

He DOES hail from the U, but I agree with Jeff Hayes. The Jets need to throw in a second round pick (and maybe the third string CB) to make it worth releasing CP from any disgruntlement he has with Saunders.

From CP's perspective, it would be a great move. No question that he would become the feature back in a team that badly needs a feature back. They have a young, solid O-line that is getting better and better. Mangini has Belichek (sp?) blood in him. Plus, Skins play the Jets in the Meadowlands next year.

That said: DO NOT RELEASE CLINTON FROM HIS CONTRACT!

Today


Scorpio

Your mind is like a sponge today, eager to absorb all sorts of information. However, take care, dear Scorpio, that the information you are absorbing is accurate. There is a high probability that the fascinating news you hear is a mix of fiction and fantasy. Go to the source and get the facts before acting on this information. If necessary, do some research at the library. That librarian is an impartial third party.

Gibbs 2.0 won't equal Gibbs 1.0 for two simple reasons: PLAYER PERSONNEL & FREE AGENCY. In Gibbs' first tenure someone else was responsible for buying the groceries. All he had to do was cook. The players he was given played together for 5 or more years. These were the "core Redskins" and their tenures:
On O On D
Jacoby 81-93 Mann 83-93
Grimm 81-91 Manley 81-89
May 81-90 D Green 83-02
Bostic 80-93 Butz 76-88
Warren 79-92 Grant 81-90
Monk 80-93 Milot 79-87
Riggins 81-85 Dean 82-87
Theismann 74-85 Olkewicz 79-85
Clark 85-91 Coleman 79-94
Sanders 86-93

The days of keeping players together that long are over, especially when your "front office" does a poor job of evaluating and selecting talent, managing the draft and picks and can't walk away from a bad deal.
Under the current system, these flaws are too much to overcome.

>>> "He was basically responding to 980's questions candidly and probably should have been a bit more reserved "

Nah, CP's an iconoclast. The 'Skins knew that when they got him. St. Joe knows that he can't control CP, he can only tell him not to rile up the opponent. CP is all class, he would never talk smack about another team. In this case, he is probably saying stuff he was man enough to tell everyone in the locker room. Probably old news to St. Joe.

Of the few posts I've made here, I think two of the three were floating the idea of a Portis trade. I was smacked down hard because of the cap hit factor and rightly so.

But cap notwithstanding, would a trade for portis be a good idea?

I think so.

#1 His overall production since the trade has dropped a lot. His yards per average is more than a yard lower than it was in Denver. He has put up record breking totals, yes and he put the team on his shoulders last season, but this season he had one, maybe two good games. I know he was hurt but that could be part of the problem. A running back who injures his shoulders easily is not durable.

#2 We have serious needs on defense. You don't get something for nothing in this league. If the Jets did trade Vilma it would be huge for the Skins. Good pass rushers who can play the run and cause turn overs are not as common as 1000 yard backs, as has been stated here many times.

#3 Which brings me to Betts. It seems pretty obvious to me that Betts fits Gibbs's style of running back. Portis obviously has talent in huge quantities and he probably fit best in a zone blocking scheme like they have in Denver. I have alway felt like he was playing in a poorly fit system. Really, that isn't his fault but I don't see Gibbs getting away from "Redskins Principles" to better suit Portis.

All that said, I'd agree that Gibbs won't trade Portis or allow him to be traded

On 980 this am. One of the "sports reporters" said he wouldn't be surprised to see Clinton wind up with the Jets next season. If he goes, we better get Vilma and Leon Washington.

I think the "trade CP" talk is ridiculous. Notwithstanding Betts' performance at season's end, he is at best a second back in the NFL. He doesn't have game breaking ability and he's a fumbler. If CP goes, you have to get someone to replace HIM.

learned hand, i think you're missing the point on black qb compared to black qb. the issue isn't that they're being compared to black qb's. the issue is that these qb's have NOTHING in common except for the fact that they're black!
and the f-ing ignorance of it all is f-ing offensive!

comparing JC to DW? or Steve Mcnair? what's the need? why? they're nothing like JC. NOTHING. and there's been no one like MV. except maybe steve young. and to me(very very limited knowledge) i think byron leftwich reminds me of only one black qb and that's warren moon but warren moon wasn't the only qb that threw the ball like BL...

anyways...you keep changing the discussion...now we're talkinga bout BBM(big black media)...stick with one thing. this dude only has so much attention span.

diddy, i liked T3 as well. loved the ending. kinda left me wanting more. but ahnuld played a good bad T. missed that a bit in T3.

i'm officially not a fan of ronin. hudson hawk is ronin. :)

lisa, regarding doc walker on 980. i think all these 980 people are just being good soldiers. now rember they have competition now and they must out do each other (980 vs. red zebra). but the cool thing is that riggo, bram are much more critical with actual details of skins org than 980's outlandish crap. i really think red zebra's going to succeed. it was about time we got 2 sports radio stations.

Well as far as Czaban is concerned, anything he says is pure speculation because the Skins organization cannot stand him....along with most of the listening world!

Actually,

Comparing Jason Campbell to Doug Williams is fair as far as throwing motion, arm strength and demeanor.

He is more mobile and has better touch at this point in his career than DW, however.

Ok I am going to use my right to make some comments,not to be interpreted as final judgements.

Its really all about Jason Campbell's developement. Its Quaterback league, you have to have a play maker at that position, that can a leader and minimize his mistakes. If you have that in this league you are almost automatically in the wildcard race each year from the get go.
I have said it before on the posts, our failure to draft one these players, find one, or keep the right one when we had them (Trent Green, Brad Johson) is far and away this franchises biggest failure.

To make a quick point, (I have also said this on here before too) I live in New England and have seen the Brady /genis thing unfold.Under bledsoe this was a stuggling team comming off a 5-11 year, off to a slow start, lots of press pressure (Boston Media is brutal) Drew gets hurt, Brady steps in, Dynasty. I know I am be overly simlpistic but if Drew stays healthy Pats go like 6-10/7/9 The genuis most likely gets fired, because up untill that time he wasn't all that.

I am not saying JC is or will be Brady, but if he is good believe me all the other things and the moves we make/ don't make will have a whole different look.

truthfully, i haven't listened to anything on the radio. cuz it's all speculations. but i do like "rumors" cuz most of the time where there's smoke there's fire.

but did you guys hear this rumor about cowher. that he wants 6-7 million dollars per year!!! when he gets back to coaching?

and also we keep (me being the biggest proponenet) mentioning russ grimm coming here and being the HC. but what about Ray Brown? you think he's being mentored to be the O-line coach? and potentially the HC? i don't know how much x's and o's he knows but he'd at least make a good manager(a la jimmy johnson). from what i saw on comcast sportsnet. what you guys think about ray brown?

Great post about player tenure Learned Hand. I think what you posted lends to a sort of reworking of my earlier point.

Now, in the era of free agency, the burden is MORE on the coach to lend to a team identity because they can be the only constant aside from the front office (as long as they aren't fired or they don't quit). That said, instilling a team identity and continuity in today's NFL seems to be quite a feat. There are some powerful structural inhibitors (i.e. free agency and salary cap) standing in the way. But, again, Gibbs is the right guy. Not only does he have a proven record that gives him credibility, an essential element necessary to instill an identity, he begun his current tenure and continues to operate with a succession plan in mind (I think/hope).

Granted, the succession plan probably keeps changing and he is, sadly, losing some credibility. But the right person and the right plan might be in place. I'd be very disappointed if Gibbs' successor is not someone from within. I'm hoping the commitment to the high priced assistants is about more than 700 page books.

I suppose I am doing a bit of wishful thinking here. It goes without saying (on this message board) that a GM is an essential element that this structure is missing.

This kool-aid is great. Grape, I think.

dcsween,

I can't see Portis lobbying to be traded to the Jets. It's been said that Mangini is tough and Gibbs has spoiled Portis. Mangini would never let him blow off OTAs, preseason, etc. He would certainly not receive preferential treatment with the Jets like Gibbs gives him.

also if cowher gets $6-7 a year...you gotta know that danny's gonna end up paying a cool $10 mil a year for the next HC.

dealer I think I made myself pretty clear but I will let yours be the last word between us on the subject. This forum isn't conducive to discussing these kinds of issues.

"Oh sweet 8 pound, 6 ounce baby Jesus in your golden diaper...I would also like to thank you for my wife's father Chip, who has a horrible, horrible leg that smells terrible and the dogs bark at it."

I KNOW that Grilliams is interviewing for that Arizona job. I know it. It is probably in secret at his house or on vacation, but there is no doubt in my mind. Does anyone, Jason, Jason's editor, Howard, Les Carpenter...have any knowledge on this?

booyaka

Can we stop talking about CP being traded. It's not going to happened people. And why would you want Betts as your starter? Did you not see how many times he fumbled the ball? Betts doesn't have the speed to break away from anyone. With all those yards he had look at the TD total with those yards.

jm220 is dead on

And that stretch play they had so much success with toward the end of the season was straight out of Denver's playbook.

That play was not a staple of the offense while CP was playing.

lh, no, i didn't get what you were trying to say.

from MW's article in post:
Saban has a rule that nobody within the Dolphins organization can talk to reporters, so maybe he was naive enough to think Alabama boosters weren't gleefully calling reporters all over the place with tidbits about the last conversation with Saban.

heeeeeeeeeee heeeeeeeeeeee heeeeeeeeeee i'm LOVING this saban thing. I LOVE IT as a steve spurrier "lover"!

muuuuuuuuuuuuuhaaaaaaaaaaaaahaaaaaaaaaaahaaaa

where's len peskyrelli now! fat fudge!!!!

Let's not forget, Betts is 27. He is a nice back, but Clinton is younger, and already proven himself.

My offseason wishes are for either Lance Briggs or Adalius Thomas. Pay whatever you have to. Since overpaying is never an issue, signing players from top ranked defenses may be more sensible than taking castoffs from lower ranked defenses.

Trade the 6 pick for multiple picks, we need quantity on the d side of the ball.

Above all, hire a flipping GM.

"Comparing Jason Campbell to Doug Williams is fair as far as throwing motion, arm strength and demeanor.

He is more mobile and has better touch at this point in his career than DW, however."

Doug Williams was actually quite mobile early in his career (at Tampa Bay). Look at his stats below. Several knee surgeries slowed him down prior to his joining the Redskins.

Yr Gms Rushes Yds

1979 16 35 119
1980 16 58 370
1981 16 48 209
1982 09 35 158

Re: Betts. Tiki had a fumbling problem that was fixed with proper coaching.

Does anyone have Betts's combine speed? He may not be fast, but he is quick to the hole.

Trade CP for picks. Trade the #6 for picks. Draft some young studs and start over.

Daniel Snyder is trying to get a new retractable roof stadium on the downtown mall. It would replace most national monuments and probably the smithsonian museums and the entire country would be taxed heavily to fund the venture. Could this be legit?

Lisa, since when did CP ever blow off OTAs or preseason? The man is more of a workhorse than one of those Budweiser Clydesdales!

jm220, OK, I'll stop talking about CP leaving. I still, however, want to follow the thought process of Vilma arriving. [For the sake of this thought process, assume the Jets take Lloyd, Archuleta, Brunell, Collins, and Holdman on a straight up trade.]

OK, if Vilma were here, where would he play? He is the Jets' MIKE in a 4-3. Assuming Grilly sticks with a 4-3 base D, who sits? Marcus? RockyMac? Lemar? If Lemar moves from MIKE ... where does he go? To the bench? Unlikely. [Plan B is switch to 3-4 like everybody else ... but Skins football starts at the line of scrimmage.]

Question: Could Lemar be our answer to the answer to our free safety problem? At MSU, he played a couple of games as a corner when he was a sophomore. His junior year, he played strong safety.

Can some X and O peeps tell me about the skill set you need for free safety (compared to strong safety) other than the ability to cover deep receivers? Does it come down to speed?

Not only is it legit, it's 2 legit to quit.

That's true K-Fed...sorry, K-Squared. Betts is 2 years older than Portis. In football years though, I'd say Portis is much older...a lot more mileage and a significant injury. That said, as we've discussed to death here, CP isn't going anywhere. He's the starting running back for the 'Skins, end of story.

We have *finally* a functional offense, which will only be better once our ailing players have the opportunity to mend in the offseason. Why, in Saint Peter's name, would we even entertain the thought of dismantling this offense in order to shore up our defense? Does anyone out there seriously think that two broken sides of the team will improve the team as a whole? Hello? For that reason alone ... for the sake of a working, gelling offense ... Clinton Portis will not be traded. Oh, he might be shown the door, but not as long as Butter Finger Betts is the option.

Speaking of, I loved what was said in one of the other comment sections. It was something along the lines of "Betts should be made to carry a football around Ashburn during the entire offseason. And everyone, from the owner to the janitor, should be directed to try to poke it out of his hands, anytime, anyplace." Maybe after 7 or 8 months of constantly fighting off unexpected attempts to rob his bread basket can he learn to hold onto the damned football.

I think we need to stick with what we have and use the draft to add depth to our defense. Perhaps over the next few months, the coaches can, you know, coach the players we have. Anyone can play better with the right direction, motivation, and mentoring.

Vilma arriving. [For the sake of this thought process, assume the Jets take Lloyd, Archuleta, Brunell, Collins, and Holdman on a straight up trade.]

dcsween that works for me.

I'd like for folks to stop trying to set rules about what should and should not be discussed here. All this "let's stop talking about..." stuff is a bit condescending.

I'll acknowledge that there would be a huge downside to trading Portis if you'll acknowledge that those suggesting it are not some primitive species of Caveperson. You can't keep arguing that you're right because everyone else is stupid.

None of us are GMs. None of us have more "inside" info than another (except Mr. La Canfora). I'm simply suggesting that there are very few ways that the Skins can address their glaring needs on defense. This would be a way.

By the way, it's worked out fairly well for the Broncos at least till this season.

I like the tiki comparison to Betts. Nobody thought he was an everydown back either. I think Betts has a huge upside and so far hasn't needed "break away speed." His yards per is 4.7 and he has always been a threat out of the backfield.

I'd like for folks to stop trying to set rules about what should and should not be discussed here. All this "let's stop talking about..." stuff is a bit condescending.

I'll acknowledge that there would be a huge downside to trading Portis if you'll acknowledge that those suggesting it are not some primitive species of Caveperson. You can't keep arguing that you're right because everyone else is stupid.

None of us are GMs. None of us have more "inside" info than another (except Mr. La Canfora). I'm simply suggesting that there are very few ways that the Skins can address their glaring needs on defense. This would be a way.

By the way, it's worked out fairly well for the Broncos at least till this season.

I like the tiki comparison to Betts. Nobody thought he was an everydown back either. I think Betts has a huge upside and so far hasn't needed "break away speed." His yards per is 4.7 and he has always been a threat out of the backfield.

dcsween

Marshall was cut a couple of times in the league because he couldn't play saftey. He was converted to lb. He is really a weakside lb playing out of position inside. He needs to be upgraded like most of the rest of our defense.

I'd like for folks to stop trying to set rules about what should and should not be discussed here. All this "let's stop talking about..." stuff is a bit condescending.

I'll acknowledge that there would be a huge downside to trading Portis if you'll acknowledge that those suggesting it are not some primitive species of Caveperson. You can't keep arguing that you're right because everyone else is stupid.

None of us are GMs. None of us have more "inside" info than another (except Mr. La Canfora). I'm simply suggesting that there are very few ways that the Skins can address their glaring needs on defense. This would be a way.

By the way, it's worked out fairly well for the Broncos at least till this season.

I like the tiki comparison to Betts. Nobody thought he was an everydown back either. I think Betts has a huge upside and so far hasn't needed "break away speed." His yards per is 4.7 and he has always been a threat out of the backfield.

Clinton may be younger, but he probably feels like a 30 year old back. That dude has been in the league a while and has seen a heavy run load. Combine that with a bum shoulder, and we got ourselves a problem.

Year Team G GS Att Yds Avg Lg TD 20+ 1st
2002 Broncos 16 12 273 1508 5.5 59 15 11 79
2003 Broncos 13 13 290 1591 5.5 65 14 13 76
2004 Redskins 15 15 343 1315 3.8 64 5 5 65
2005 Redskins 16 16 352 1516 4.3 47 11 6 74
2006 Redskins 8 7 127 523 4.1 38 7 3 29

TOTAL 68 63 1385 6453 4.7 65 52 38 323

Thats a lot of yards (and wear and tear) for a 25 year old.

ps- I really really loved watching Stephen Davis punch it in against our goal line defense a couple weeks ago. Felt like a punch to the gut.

All this "let's stop talking about..." stuff is a bit condescending.

I'll acknowledge that there would be a huge downside to trading Portis if you'll acknowledge that those suggesting it are not some primitive species of Caveperson. You can't keep arguing that you're right because everyone else is stupid.

None of us are GMs. None of us have more "inside" info than another (except Mr. La Canfora). I'm simply suggesting that there are very few ways that the Skins can address their glaring needs on defense. This would be a way.

By the way, it's worked out fairly well for the Broncos at least till this season.

I like the tiki comparison to Betts. Nobody thought he was an everydown back either. I think Betts has a huge upside and so far hasn't needed "break away speed." His yards per is 4.7 and he has always been a threat out of the backfield.

Evan, let's not post twice. It's really offensive to me.

Dorf,

No kidding. When the rumor came out about Duckett, I was screaming for Stephen Davis. Why trade ANYTHING for Duckett when you can go pick up a similar back off the street for the vet minimum and no other strings attached. Now we don't have a 3rd round pick this year, which for most teams = starter or solid depth spot, and a 4th next year. It's things like this that make you go crazy.

"In Gibbs' first tenure someone else was responsible for buying the groceries. All he had to do was cook. The players he was given played together for 5 or more years. These were the "core Redskins" and their tenures:"

Just as important, there were a few players still around from the Allen years (like Moseley & Theismann) who understood the concept of a winning tradition. They were "core Redskins" before anyone knew there was such a thing (except for maybe George Allen).

There were also important additions at various times of successful players with good character and leadership qualities who came from other organizations, such as Joe Washington and Ernest Byner. Core Redskins? You bet.

Joe Gibbs is still looking for those kinds of players to become part of the new "core", which is part of the reason that draft picks are devalued. But someone should send him your list, Learned Hand, and maybe he can dust off the cobwebs in his brain and remember that many of his early core guys were draft picks.

We can probably get some picks for Marcus Washington and Moss too.

Moss' production went way down this year. We could get some picks for him and build our defense.

evan all people are saying that there is not enough space and time for the topic Race In America on this blog.

As far as Betts not having breakway speed. Maybe if he got into the end zone more often then you could say that it doesn't matter that he doesn't have it. Also Betts have been known to get injured.

I still can't believe we gave Archuleta a richer deal than Ed Reed or Brian Dawkins. It's so crazy and beyond anything a reasonable, sane person would do it almost becomes comical.

Moss' production went way down this year. We could get some picks for him and build our defense.

Jeff Hayes you are joking right! If not a smack to the back of the head. What is wrong with you? To trade your #! WR! Just say no.

anyone who thinks that gibbs likes betts is forgetting the fact that he doesn't like his players turning over the ball.

betts lost the ball i think 5 times this year(guessing). for someone who played half the season. right? this is nothing new. he's had this problem all his carreer. and it's obvious that he can't do nohting about it. and it's not like he was trying to squeeze thru holes...he had semi-truck holes to run thru.

i think they should trade betts. for a 2nd or a 3rd. and with those picks they should select brooklyn decker.

k squared and old school, I agree that our LB corp needs an upgrade, but I think our CB corps needs one worse.

Lance Briggs and Adalius Thomas will be fetching top bills after their respective Conference Championship game and SB win, respectively. Even though the pocketbook goes deeper, I think the most we can afford under the cap will be Nate Clements.

Fantasizing about trades, are we? As pleasant a way to pass the time as any, I guess.

Clinton Portis SHOULD NOT go anywhere, he SHOULD start the season at RB over FumBetts. He is every inch a core Redskin, and he is better than Betts. And that's precisely why we're willing to believe that this front office is burning up the switchboard* trying to trade him.

* for all you young'uns, a "switchboard" was once used to route telephone calls, manually connecting the calling party to the number dialed.

JM- that was sarcasm used to illustrate the flawed logic in trading Portis because of a decrease in production during an injury plagued year.

Also Evan, no one called anyone 'stupid'. We simply said it would be a 'stupid move'.

*hugs*

et tu Nate!!!!!!!!!

why??

Tiffany Rayne acts her guts out!

dealer, couldn't find the exact stat, but I think the numbers I saw said the skins had 20 fumbles and lost 7 of them. couldn't find the numbers to break any of that down to betts.

espn.com stats have Betts with 245 carries and 4 fumbles, losing 2 of them

For those yearning for something to look forward to, the rest of Entourage season 3 starts on March 18, 2007.

He, JLaC, tell St. Joe I said, "Waddup".

Betts had 6 fumbles. Don't know how many of those lost possession.

Clinton Portis logged no fumbles.

one of Betts' fumbles was on a reception against Tampa

dcsween, thanks. i just checked. in the last 8 games he fumbled SIX times and lost 3.

I have logged no work today. Checking out for a little while.

dealer, Yahoo! Sports sez that Ladell Betts fumbled 6 (six) times, losing 3, in 2006. He had 245 rushes + 53 receptions for 298 "touches", so he averaged just about 1 fumble per 50 touches and 1 lost fumble per 100 touches. I don't think those are great numbers.

In 2005 Betts had 99 touches, 2 fumbles, 2 fumbles lost. Lousy.

Just to pick one other dude from the lig at random for comparison, Clinton Portis had zero fumbles this season on 144 touches. Zero is good.

In 2005 Portis had 382 touches, 3 fumbles, 2 fumbles lost. Roughly 1 fumble per 110 touches and 1 lost fumble per 190 touches. Better than Betts.

and yahoo sports has Betts with 6 fumbles, losing 3. Seems like this stat is as subjective as tackles!

diddy, any idea on sopranos?

auries wife is so hot(the way PH says it).

"if you'll acknowledge that those suggesting it are not some primitive species of Caveperson."

Not cool Evan.

And need I remind that Portis had 7 TDs this season (roughly one every 20 touches!) to Betts' 4 (roughly one every 75 touches!).

Unless I'm getting the numbers wrong. I'm not very strong with the math.

"I still can't believe we gave Archuleta a richer deal than Ed Reed or Brian Dawkins. It's so crazy and beyond anything a reasonable, sane person would do it almost becomes comical."

This is yet another piece of Dan Snyder's psychological warfare against the old guard owners in the NFL.

Phase 1 - Develop the Redskins into the biggest moneymaker the league has ever seen. (short term)

Phase 2 - Outbid all others and overpay for all free agent acquisitions. (medium term)

Phase 3 - Eliminate other bidders by demonstrating interest in every good player available. (long term)

Phase 4) - Buy a championship team and then sell it at its highest value.

Salary cap? Who cares!

Dead cap money? So what!

Fans? What fans? Oh, you mean those people over there dressed in replica jerseys? Screw them! All I see are profit opportunities!

Betts had 5 TDs (one receiving) in 2006, so his TDs to touches ration was more like one TD every 60 touches.

Portis is better.

What's a good chick flick or date movie out now?

if you'll acknowledge that those suggesting it are not some primitive species of Caveperson."

Not cool Evan.

Posted by: GEICO Caveman | January 5, 2007 01:19 PM

LMAO

They're on to me!

The gig is up!

I hear We are Marshall is awesome. Not really a chick flick, but a fake tear or two could lead to some play...

Bobbing,

Hysterical.

In 2005 Portis had 382 touches, 3 fumbles, 2 fumbles lost. Roughly 1 fumble per 110 touches and 1 lost fumble per 190 touches. Better than Betts.

so knowing all this can we at least say that there's no way joe makes him his feature back?

also i think i know why danny and joe were arguing (something steve B mentioned 2 days ago on this blog).

joe: i want to fire saunders
danny: you paid him $2 mil per year for 3 years!
joe: i know but...
danny: that $4 mil's coming out of your pocket.
joe: *smacks vinny in the face in anger* *pataaak*
danny: it's okay vinny he's just upset.
*joe slams the door and walks out with buges*

>>> "What's a good chick flick or date movie out now?"

Pursuit of Happyness, with Will Smith and his son. Not bad.

I just took a phone call; that counts as work.

Coach rumors I found on-line while taking the aforementioned phone call: Parcells to Miami and Ron Rivera to Arizona. Pending rumors remain pending (Wisenhutt to Atlanta; Grimm for Pittsburgh).

Also, Cowher did officially resign.

Good chick flick? I know a period piece (lots of period costume), but maybe not prototype of 'chick flick' ... Apocalypto ... unless the chick is into period pieces involving ritualistic sacrifice. [No one does cinematic violence as well as Mel Gibson.]

Note: Prospective apologies for breaking my 'Skins discussion only' principle.

so Nate, let me get this straight are you saying that Portis is better than Betts?

BRILLIANT!

"Y'all didn't want me to meddle, did ya?" said Danny with a self-satisfied smirk on his face...

chick flick?
ummm any toddler flick with hidden adult humor?

Just made my first post on Liz Kelley's blog. I think I'm about to double my uselessness.

dealer, just trying to make the point that I will be grievously upset if we get rid of Portis. And given our organization's track record, SOMETHING will grievously upset me this offseason. I hope it's something other than losing Portis...

didn't mean to post that last one so many times. it was my Caveman 2000 cpu that messed up.

Oh, and I can make those jokes because I am a Neanderthal.

You're all welcome for fire and the wheel, by the way.

Briana loves Jenna is quite the chick flick.

Nate, Portis or A GOOD "GM"?

-brought to you by your neighborhood dealer

I love this Madden quote from Maske's blog this morning:

"The league has never been more balanced -- or mediocre, depending upon one's viewpoint. The line between the good teams and the average teams and between the average teams and the bad teams is so thin right now," Madden said, "that it's easy to go from one side to the other."

evan, thanks for the GEICO car insurance, too. Much appreciated.

JLC is chatting now on WaPo live. Chat started later than previously advertised. I thought I missed it.

OH...not THAT type of chick flick! :)

Apparently I did miss it but it appears nate made an appearance.

LH, whaa?

Oh, I see. Wasn't me, was somebody else repping PDX.

Someone posted as PDX. I thought it may have been you.

...and there's been no one like MV.

Aw, thanks, dealer. That means a lot to me...

(Just kidding!)

JLC said that negotiations with Dockery aren't even close. I'm not surprised. If you were Dockery's agent would you settle for less than maximum value under the circumstances - players have been saying how much they want him back; FO taking heat for letting good players go and signing outsiders for big $; Skins got cash? There has to be some pressure to re-sign Dock to send positive message to players, fans and media.

dame, my brother from another motha, i did think of you when i wrote that.

where you live again? just kidding...dcsween and i can figure that out all our own ;)

but am truly sorry for your dame. you think all you irish (fans) will be happy to see charlie leave if he goes to the giants? not for any other reason than his appearance. the closeups were just scary.

From the chat:

"Don't expect anything to change with your team, though. When I discussed how badly the Redskins overpaid for Lloyd with Gibbs, he told me they made a shrewd deal and did not give up too much. He implied third-round picks are crapshoots, and Lloyd is a proven commodity."

That pretty much sums it up. Is someone slipping LSD into his Metamucil?

thanks jeff (i think)! yikes!

Jeff Hayes- Thanks for saying what I was thinking. Crapshoot?! Like Dock and Cooley?...a couple of 3rd rounders who started virtually from day 1.

New Blog name for Vinny...
Dwight Schrute(sp) from the office

Jeff,

You beat me to it. In fact, I laughed outloud at that quote and was just getting ready to post it. Gibby is clearly delusional.

My only hope is that I win mega millions tonight so I can buy the team and fire that nice, but senial, Space Cowboy. Oh wait, I'd still be 1.1 billion short.

What's a good chick flick or date movie out now?

Posted by: | January 5, 2007 01:23 PM

BRAVETHROAT

Briana loves Jenna is quite the chick flick.

Posted by: 4-12 | January 5, 2007 01:42 PM

4-12 absolutely funniest post of the year - which isn't saying much since it's only the 5th but stil
LMAO LMAO LMAO

dcsween,

I did not say that Portis blew off OTAs and preseason - but he would like to. He has made that abundantly clear - a lot of the players want to train on their own and are lobbying the Skins to be able to do this.

Re: Dockery - Shawn Springs was laughingly calling him "The Big Grip" the other day because he is negotiating his contract. Dock was interviewed right before the season was over and he said he wants to stay here and has told his agent to make it work. Of course, management will probably screw that up as well.

Just heard Lavar is going to be on 980 around 5:00. Hope he talks about the Giants/Eagles game and not about the Skins. Enough is Enough. But knowing 980 they will want to dig up more dirt.

First thing that I read after my e-mails was JLC's on-line chat. Boy, if that doesn't make you a no-longer-a-Redskin fan, nothing will. Ouch. I'm starting to have my serious doubts now. Am I completely wasting my time?

I was the one who asked about Dockery, and to me that IS the offseason. If we lose him, then I'm going to start rooting for another team. Dock deserves to be paid, Samuels said he'd re-do his deal to free up some space, what else do they need to make this happen?

I know Gibbs and Buges and company say all the right things to the press, but I keep hearing that they think he's expendable. I hope that's incorrect, because losing him will be just like losing Clark and AP.

We were dominant on the line this year, and bringing all 5 starters back, for the 3rd straight season, can only be a positive. Plus he's one of your own. You drafted the dude and groomed him into a starter. His teammates love him. Sign him.

You know, I think about the other ridiculous contracts often, but I really get worked up over them when you start hearing about a stalled contract negotiation with an up and coming O-lineman. Minus of course the shrewd deal we made for Lloyd, right Space Cowboy who need to check into a mental hospital?

sfskin, on Fox "News" the question of the hour is "Will Pelosi bring San Francisco values to Washington?" so as you are in SF i was wondering what exactly are SF values?

NFL.com has stat stuff on Betts and you can break it down with a little more than the other sites.

He fumbled 6 times and lost 3 this year and 3 for 3 last year.

I forgot that he broke his left forearm a couple years ago which may be why he is so reluctant to hug the ball.

Any other team in the league could have re-signed Betts, re-signed Dock, and given Cooley an extension, DURING THE SEASON, without even blinking an eye... and still have 10-20 mill in cap room remaining.

What do we have to do? Get players to restructure in season in order to sign Betts... now we are in major need of restructing to re-sign Dock, draft picks, 8 other guys to the roster, etc.

It's reckless.

They had better re-sign Dock....he wants to stay...they say they want him....the O line loves him....and the fans will be irate (yet again) over the loss of a "core player"

I know Gibbs and Buges and company say all the right things to the press, but I keep hearing that they think he's expendable.

i don't know if it was Diddy or Mv Dame or one of you guys who said signing Betts was so typical of this admin. they buy the stock when it's at its peak. and that's exactly what they're doing with dockery.

why didn't they sign him last year? and if last year he wasn't worth it then why do you think he's worth it this year? everyone and their mother plays "lights out" during contract year.

i say stick to your guns. again i can't say this enough no player, no coach is going to fix this team/org. i don't care if they trade portis(best O player) or trade washington, springs (best D players)...i don't care. and i don't care if they win the SB next year. i want this thing done RIGHT. goshdarnit! so we can enjoy it longer than if it was one and done.

has anyone told gibbs and snyder that depth comes from the draft. and if the richest teams(nfl) could buy a championship then it would've happened already.

dealer, Weis is not going to the Giants... well, at least not this year. Let's see what how the Irish do next year. Speaking of his appearance, have you seen him in those cold weather games where he's got frozen snot all over his upper lip and he doesn't do a dang thing about it?

Dudes, come on already with the melodramatic issuing of ultimatums (ultimata?).

We're going to come right back next season whether this player or that player is or isn't on the roster. Because we root for this TEAM, we love this TEAM, more than we love and root for any one player. And the chance that this TEAM will succeed next year, that we'll see the burgundy and gold hoist the Lombardi Trophy again, is too tantalizing for us to turn away.

Not saying it's been easy being a fan of this team lately, or that there aren't dark moments where we all consider packing it in and saying to hell with it ("that's the last straw, Snyder!"), but come September we're putting on the jerseys and sitting on the edges of our seats. We are Redskins fans.

I just re-read my last post and it sounds pretty corny and really preachy. Sorry, dudes.

where he's got frozen snot all over his upper lip and he doesn't do a dang thing about it??
EWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE thanks dame for that visual. that and coupled with that thing in the corner of his mouth.

i'm going over to z says she says...to cleans my mind

Nate makes a good point. I'm a life long Red-Sox fan, so I've got the jump on swearing off a team, only to come running back.

I want them to sign Dock though, lets keep our good players, instead of letting them walk.

Day-off musings...
Boy, did the Skins pick the wrong year to stink. A coupla nice coaching openings in Miamni and Pburgh....Oakland, well, no, but it is in the NFL. I'm pretty sure.
Chick flix....Marshall should work. I mean, even the manliest men get all mushy over a plane crash. It's okay. Blaw.
Saw Children of Men and it was terrific. Not really a chick flick; you might only get lucky if you resemble Clive Owen. If you do, email me...
Dunno about kid flix...A co-worker's 5-year-old son was watching a National Geographic show the other day and, in one of those wink-winks to adults, they mentioned "the horizontal mambo." So, of course, her kid picks up on that and will not stop saying it.
So we went around the corner on our lunch hour and kicked a little Geographic a$$.

dealer,

Have you heard his recent interviews on Comcast? Gibbs actually thinks that they've built through the draft. In fact, I think his quote was "we've had a lot of draft picks".

The man is delusional. We have had the least amount of picks out of any other team in the NFL since he came back. He also thinks he made a shrewd deal with a 3rd and 4th in the Lloyd deal, because those picks are crap shoots, and that a 9 mill dead cap hit is not a lot of money. 9 mill in cap room could give you Betts, Dock, Cooley, Taylor, 2 big name free agents, all 2 of our draft picks, and the Dahli Lama.

He just doesn't make sense. Everyone sees it... the fans, the media, his players... just not him and "Dan", who have been meeting the last 2 days to determine the future. Kill yourself.

dealer,

Have you heard his recent interviews on Comcast? Gibbs actually thinks that they've built through the draft. In fact, I think his quote was "we've had a lot of draft picks".

The man is delusional. We have had the least amount of picks out of any other team in the NFL since he came back. He also thinks he made a shrewd deal with a 3rd and 4th in the Lloyd deal, because those picks are crap shoots, and that a 9 mill dead cap hit is not a lot of money. 9 mill in cap room could give you Betts, Dock, Cooley, Taylor, 2 big name free agents, all 2 of our draft picks, and the Dahli Lama.

He just doesn't make sense. Everyone sees it... the fans, the media, his players... just not him and "Dan", who have been meeting the last 2 days to determine the future. Kill yourself.

Nate

well said.

Nate is right. It's fun to rant and rave and threaten but most of us will be back again.
I agree with Maske and many of you - I want consistency. I've said this before and I'm sure I'll say it again. I don't need a one year of glory and SB only to watch us go into the toilet again. I'm here for life and I know there'll be bust cyles so I want booms to last more than 12 months.
The thing that has always puzzled me is this must win now attitude that so many fans mostly of other teams have and the owners often fall for it too.
The NFL is the most lucrative and (proportionally) popular sports league in the world except maybe premier league in UK. They kick MLB, NHL, NBA, MLS out the window.
The parity may mean some mediocrity but it isn't nearly as bad as MLB. It may also mean that we don't have the same dynasties but I'm okay with that I think most real fans are.
So knowing that let's build a solid team that will then become a championship team. If you trade CP you are setting yourself back. Why? Because what is the message you once again send to the players and the fans? The Danny did that so often in his first years of ownership with Spurrier (ugh) and Deon (gag) and J-J-Jeff George (the horror the horror).

The league may be a different place then in the 80s but the basics are the same. A GM, a consistent coaching staff, a good QB, warriors and depth at O-line and D-line and building through young talent. Once again look at those with long term success and that's what they have/had. Pitt, Philly, NE, Sea, Indy.

Gibbs must be in the midst of something big.

There will not be a Game Plan this week.
Please visit us again next week at JoeGibbsOnline.com.

how old is Snyder? If I can out live that bastard, then I'll stay with the team.

great post. that's why I can't believe some of you say you'd rather be in our shoes than Baltimore/Philly, etc. Those teams have meaningful football every December. They have frequent home playoff games. How can some of you say that?

I agree.. consistency is the key... hell, it's what everyone is screaming for. I thought we were headed in the right direction after the limited spending of 05, then the 10-6 playoff season, then, like a pair of nuts hitting you in the chin.... Arch, Lloyd, Carter, ARE, etc..... and it's back to rock bottom.

My favorite Q&A from Jason on-line chat today:

Question: ... Is Archuleta disliked by his teammates or solely coach Williams?

Jason La Canfora: Adam is held in high regard by his teammates for how he handled a difficult situation.

Lloyd, not so much.

Did you guys hear Floyd Reese the Titans GM stepped down today? Interesting...he reloaded that team with talent for 13 years with team move and salary cap issues.....he knows Grilliams....

And lets stop getting all worked up about Gibbs and Co public statements. Do you really think they are going to say anything important or informational?!?! Get real...Gibbs practically invented Coach Speak!

editor, that's not funny. i like NG. you in bethesda? or downtown?

Nate for president!
ricky bobby for VP (cuz we need balance)!
sfskin for speaker of the house!
lisa for head of BMW (big media watch)!

When you think about it, if making the team is an indication of effective college scouting, the Skins did pretty well in the last draft. Of the 6 guys drafted, the top 4 made the team.

If you can bear to re-live the pain of the season, see this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Washington_Redskins_season

Yesterday, I wrote about what I thought was the best game (Carolina, Week 12). I didn't identify my pick for the worst game ... Minnesota, Week 1. Can you imagine what it might have meant for team mojo if we won that game (after losing all 4 in the preseason)?

Dealer, we heart the Geographic, too!!! I can watch that channel 24/7 (Seconds from disaster --- ooooh!). In fact, basically, all day I toggle between it and the NFL Network. I'm just sayin' that those things that make kiddie shows so fun for adults can backfire. That's all. Wait'll Lil Miss Dealer starts saying, "horizontal mambo" over and over. To, say, your in-laws.

Ooh someone impersonated me . . . does that mean you like me? You really really like me?

For no particular reason I've decided to blame the Skins woes on global warming.

We could have Congressional hearings.

Al Gore could make "An Inconvenient Truth Part Deux - The Washington Redskins"

Then all the denials by the organization and coaches would be like Inohofe - "The Lost Season articles are the greates hoax ever perpetrated on football fans."

Gotta go seek the Floyd Reese presser...Interesting. I think there had been some issues between him and JFish, but Reese is super-smart. No doubt about it. Wonder how he'd feel about DC...

Guys like Floyd Reese, Ron Wolf, and even our old standby Chuck Casserly have too much experience, pride, and common sense than work for a rudderless ship like this one.

I would love to have any one of those guys on top of personnel, but it just makes too much sense. Seems painfully obvious that the Skins do the opposite of what most teams would do.....hire smart people, save draft picks, manage the cap for the future.

As many of you have said, reckless and deulsional, a great formula for failure.

P.S. See you all here tomorrow for the playoffs.

As for the cap ramifications of a Portis trade, it would require an $8.2M hit. Now, he is due to count $7M against the cap in 2007 anyhow, so from that perspective, it's not that big a deal. But, he is a prime candidate for a restructure -- he has big base salary numbers from here on out (3.5M this year; 5-7M until 2011) and his bonus allocation is "only" 2.5M a year. So they could take most of his 2007 and 2008 base salaries, guarantee them, and cut his cap hit in 07 and 08 in half by being able to spread out that money.

editor, if i had money and the talent i would stop dealing and be an NG photographer.

and you underestimate my fatherhood. ms. dealer can use the "F" word to perfection. and i'm teaching her BAMF's usability.
To, say, your in-laws. ummm that's already happened with the F word. ya'll should've seen the look on my F-inlaw's face.

hee hee hee...

i'm kidding...i feel pretty bad for my language but if the skins had been better this season she never would've had to hear such words used so often. "F" is such a good word though. it just releases all the tension/anxiety....hard to give up.

Wonder how he'd feel about DC...
aaahhh yes...dream dream dream dream dream

that would be na-ice!

CMoney, I think the effects on salary cap follow the player rather than stay with the team. A trade of say (hypothetically and wrongfully) Portis would transfer the contractual obligations (and thus salary cap implications) to the team to whom he is traded (hypothetically and wrongfully the Jets). In the wrong hypothetical discussed earlier, the Skins would take on Vilma's contract and it would affect the Skins' salary cap.

Minding the language has probably been in the top three most difficult adjustments since Nathan Jr. arrived. The kid is like a sponge with an echo.

Floyd Reese??? You guys are kidding right? Reese is *maybe* a half a step better than Matt Millen. Seriously people. MV was right -- we're a bunch of coked up hamsters in here.

Ever notice how the Titans have a salary purge every 3-5 years and cut everyone that's good? Floyd Reese.

Remember when they told Steve McNair, the face of the franchise, that he couldn't enter the building? Floyd Reese.

Drafting turds like Albert Haynesworth and Adam Jones? Floyd Reese.

The Titans turned around this season because Vince Young is a stud and Jeff Fisher is an awesome coach. Oh, and who picked Vince Young? The owner, Bud Adams.

When a GM gets fired it's usually because he sucks. In this case, it's because he sucks a lot.

Joe,

At this point, anyone (and I mean anyone) is better than what we have.

CMoney, I don't think we can predict the effect of a trade on the salary cap until we know the incoming player (i.e., his contract). In a trade, the receiving team takes on the sending team's contract with the player. Am I getting this wrong?

Also, we could REALLY be in long-term trouble if Floyd Reese were the GM and did to the Skins what he did with the Titans' cap space trouble. The Skins have thus far been able to avoid the fabled 'cap hell' that Floyd Reese created when he cut the big money players to make room for depth. If he DID get picked up as the GM, it would for one season and one reason -- to cut big money players, send us into dead cap hell, and be the scapegoat.

The Skins invented a way to avoid cap hell by creating a new verb -- to LaVar.

LaVar, v.t., to bench and disgrace a highly paid prideful player into 'voluntarily' accepting a pay cut to avoid dead cap space when the player leaves or gets cut.

Something tells me that both Lloyd and Archuleta are both in the midst of long-term LaVarring.

No, I am correct. Bonus money gets accelerated when a player is traded -- the same exact way it does when a player is waived.

The new team assumes the base salaries and any unpaid bonuses, such as roster bonuses, that have not been amortized, but does not have any amortized bonus money allocated to its cap.

The new team does take on the contract. However the old team takes a cap hit from the "accelerated pro-rated portion of the signing bonus". For example, dcsween signs a 5 year contract with a $10 million signing bonus. The bonus will count $2 million on the cap for each of the 5 years you play for the 'Skins. But instead of playing all 5 years, they cut you or trade you to Arizona (hey, it's nice hot weather) after only 2 years. Then, the remaining $6 million worth of signing bonus accelerates against this years cap for the 'Skins. Hence, the cap hit. Arizona would take over the remaining 3 years of your contract. Does that make sense? I think I rambled on...can't get briana loves jenna off my mind!

CMoney and 4-12, thanks. I stand educated. [Educated sounds better than schooled.]

Its a relief to have salary capmeticians on board (esp. given how often I find myself inadverently making shti up).

CMoney, 4-12, are you dudes CPAs? Tax attorneys?

Is either one of you available to head out to Redskin Park and perform triage on our '07 salary cap? Bubby Tyer is in there with blood up to his elbows, trying to resuscitate the poorthing, but its prognosis is awfully bleak.

RB, The only way Floyd Reese is better than Vinny Cerato is if he
(a) is a more fun racquetball partner, or
(b) is better at holding the ball while Dan kicks FGs.

Seriously, he's bad at his job. (Anybody remember that line from Be Cool?)

Would it make sense to hire someone whose been in an "asst GM" position with a good team? - Not sure how many of those exist.

Then we'd have a guy from a proven place who wants to also prove that he's got the chops. It may be a risk but to echo C/4-12/Nate couldn't be worse than what we have now.

Any peeoploggers have that kind of inside info? If you do I bow down.

Do you think dubG has this kind of info in a blue hanging folder?

JLaC coming on the Riggo show today.......

I know I am in a pipe dream right now but at least it's something new to think about and research. . . . oh look at those straws . . .