Continuing from the previous thread...The Sports Bog is so called because Ralph Friedgen asked Steinberg about it, when he was leaving the Maryland beat to "bog."

Jasno, Cindy, DAMN it feels good to have you guys and the Skins back!

Cyn Cyty - maybe you've broken the curse of "first" . . . gawd willing.

Witness the power of the RI blog and the nickname "manboobs": " ... Gregg Williams, who has shed about 25 pounds and ...."

So, jm220, did you train Grilliams during the offseason to help him shed the pounds? I know how much you like him.

Sixth!

To continue my thoughts from the previous post:
Ricky Bobby, last year was a disaster... but is was last year. Training camp is a time for optimism. In 2005, the skins went 5-1 in the East. Last year, 1-5. If they fix that problem (and I believe they can), the skins will be fine.
Giants are in disarray after losing Tiki, Petitigout, and possibly Strahan.
Cowboys have Wade Philips running things... might as well be Norv Turner, they're done!
Eagles are usually competitve, but without a healthy McNabb (see Daunte Culpepper) they will not be a force either.
GO SKINS!

Last post to Ricky was written by Matt. Sorry, forgot to add that in.

"Randoms: Mike Sellers was hobbled by a right knee injury this morning and had a huge ice bag taped to his leg. The team hopes it's nothing major, but there was definitely some concern among some coaches coming off the field."

Ummmm. Uhhhhh. Uh-oh.

They need to get both Cooley and Campbell extensions soon. I guess the issue they run into is cap space. It sounds like they are good for this year, but I wonder what the next few years look like?

One practice/pre-season game/Sunday at a time. Work our way back to GLORY!

GO 'SKINS!

Flight of the Conchords is the best show on TV right now. Last night was genius.

so you're the ONE watching that show.

it's dumb. unfunny. waste of airwaves.

but it doesn't suck as bad as John from cincy. geezie peezie! what is wrong with the people who made this show? were they going thru withdrawls?

JLC, great stuff! You're getting me all pumped to be back in true RI Training Camp blogging form.

(is there a descriptive word worse than horrifying out there?)

Posted by: Ricky Bobby | July 30, 2007 11:24 AM

"noookular strategery". Oh, that's two words. Never mind.

may i remind these nfl execs. that JC hasn't done ANYTHING in the nfl yet. i really hope that these nfl execs don't also think that eli manning can play too.

can we please wait to see if JC can actually win some games. cuz he aint there, not according to Mr. Saunders.

Cooley's extension needs to happen ASAP. Now that Landry's deal is done, maybe they'll turn their attention to Cooley. Cooley has proven himself over 2 seasons, and is a "Core Redskin".

Campbell has not proven himself in any way, shape, or form. This is his season to do so. If he lights it up, there is no way the 'Skins will ever let him hit the open market. If he struggles, the 'Skins will not commit to him, nor should they.

Love that Double G lost some weight. What did he do in the offseason?

And, yeah, "Entourage" might have JTS by now...you always knew they'd resort to soft porn at some point, and last night's was stupid. The show has always been about friendship and loyalty (and as many size 0 hotties as you can find), and they seem to have lost that. I keep watching to pick up cool restaurants to go to, though :-) Loved that they filmed last night poolside at the W Westwood.

Gary Fitzgerald of Redskins.com

"11:35 p.m. ET

Back for Monday. Two practices today--the first one just ended. I caught the latter part of the morning practice, and I'll post some highlights shortly. I'll be back later for the afternoon practice.

So here's the deal with the blog. I am not reporting on every single play that occurs during practice. Too much happens, and it takes a few minutes to update the site during practice.

Hey, I do the best I can.

Chris Cooley has had a few dropped passes, as have quite a few other receivers. He has also snared a few passes, mostly in routine plays that weren't blog-worthy.

Cooley is having a fine camp.

I am reporting on what I see, as quickly as possible, but I'm also trying to avoid reporting on the minutiae or the routine. There's no agenda to sugarcoat this blog, as was suggested on a Redskins message board.

I am not going to blog about formations or where players line up on a specific play. I'm not going to detail Al Saunders' pass routes.

Who told me to do this? Joe Gibbs himself.

As they say in the NFL, this blog "is what it is."

Enjoy. "

and thanks jason! again how does lenny peskarelli get his info before anyone else?

it's uncle joon isn't it??? c'mon you can tell us.

and no, you don't stink. and i hope lauren is coping with this beast...okay. and cindy is being a good, understanding boss.

Does it bother anyone else that Landry wasn't already in Ashburn. I mean you will sign your contract eventually, you should be here now.

Is it just me or do Grilliams' comments about Blades and Sartz seem a little "Dale Lindsay-ish" (SJK)?

Repost from last thread - Here is something I've been pondering that can fill space and time and posts between TC stuff.

Can't remember who but someone many threads ago talked about how the game may be moving towards teams needing two solid QBs at starter and backup what with injuries, concussions, off field shenanigans etc.

So who are the starters + back-ups this season? Any team have a real one two punch? And does this in fact seem necessary?

I'm about to pad our #s on 100k hunt so bear with me.

dealer, couldn't agree more. I think Conchords and John from Cincinnati are silly, plodding, and irrelevant.

There's some great teevee on these days (well, in the Fall...the Summer pretty much sucks), but those two shows are definitely not it.

BTW, "Heroes" fans and closet nerds (yeah, like me) will love that Zachary Quinto (Sylar) is the new Spock. Also loved Leonard Nimoy's response when asked what he thought of Quinto being cast: "It's logical."

And as an adjunct to my last post... what Gibbs TOLD him he could report on??!!

When did this become less about reporting and more about spin?

I know about the discussions up here regarding the redskins site and their blog being under the thumb of the owner, but really, if you dont want anyone to know about your formations and the like, do not let the media there!!

Off my soapbox now

Starting QBs (as listed by team sites) and back-ups:

NFC East
Skins - Soups/MB
Eagles - McNabb/Feely
Giants - Manning/Wright
Cowpaddies - Romo/B. Johnson

NFC South
Carolina - Del Homme/Carr
Atlanta - Harrington/Redman (site wasn't updated but we know it ain't Vick)
New Orleans - Brees/Martin
TB - Garcia/Simms (although this appears still "up in the air" in terms of order)

>>> "Does it bother anyone else that Landry wasn't already in Ashburn."

Most of these guys are told by agents and teams to stay at home until the deal is done. Landry was probably working out in Louisiana while he waited.

QBs cont.

NFC Central
Bears - Grossman/Griese
Packers - Favre/Rodgers
Vikings - Jackson/Bollinger
Lions - Kitna/Orlovsky

NFC West
Niners - Smith/Dilfer
Rams - Bulger/Frerrotte
Seattle - Hasselback/Wallce
Cards - Leinart/Warner (interestingly they've only got 2 QBs listed period)

QBs cont.

AFC East
NE - Brady/Cassel
Miami - Green/Lemon
Jets - Pennington/Clemens
Bills - Losman/Nall

AFC South
Houston - Schaub/Rosenfels
Indy - Manning/Sorgi
Jax - Leftwich/Grarrad
Ten - Young/K. Collins

Does it bother anyone else that Landry wasn't already in Ashburn. I mean you will sign your contract eventually, you should be here now.

Posted by: Uncle Spence | July 30, 2007 12:05 PM

You can't participate in any team activities after mini canp without a contract.

During my intolerable 3 hour layover in SFO last night, I got to thinking: after their free agent spending spree this offseason, if the Niners end up going deep in the playoffs, all of us 'Skins fans just might throw up a little bit in our mouths. I mean, the Niners have just as an incompetent front office as the 'Skins, and if they manage to pull off the whole "build through free agency" thing...well, someone please shoot me.

QBs fiesta cont.

AFC Central
Ravens - McNair/Boller
Cinci - Palmer/D. Johnson
Cleveland - Frye/Quinn
Pitt - Roethlesberger/Batch

AFC West
Denver - Cutler/Ramsey
KC - Croyle/Huard
SD - Rivers/Volek
Raiders - McCown/Walter - Russell is listed as #3 but not likely to last there

Hey lookie! Frerotte and Rosenfels are still in the League!

How quaint.

L2 is signed, but now Mike Sellars is hurt... g-darnit, sonofab****!!!!

Suddenly Brunell doesn't seem quite as the shabingus in waiting does he?

I mean which combo would you want? Hate to say this - gawd help me I will say penance many times - but Cowpaddies have a good tandem.
Wallace in Seattle did well when H-back went down as I recall.

But jeez how'd you like to be a Vikings fan right about now?

Actually Diddy there are 4 ex-Skins on this list. We may win that illustrious award.

Maybe John "Real Men Wear Visors" Gruden is on to something with the QB parade he has in TB.

sfskin, I don't remember the conversation about a new thing re: having two starter QBs on the roster -- I think it was about having two starter RBs -- but from your listings, it sure looks like a lot of teams are in a world of hurt if they lose their #1s. For all the apparent invincibility of the Patriots as currently configured, I can't see Matt Cassell possibly doing the things Brady can do (same with BBM and Sorgi).

Of the other viable 1-2 combos besides Campbell/Brunell, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Tampa Bay, and Carolina (and where did Kelly Holcomb land?) might come closest. Frankly, it doesn't seem like there is much there there in terms of #2 QBs.

You are taking a chance with JC either way. If you sign him now, you take the risk that he isn't the guy. If he blows up this year, you may not be able to afford him. Granted, the Redskins work the cap better than anyone else, but really good QBs sign mega deals $80M+. If they are able to keep him, they may not be able to resign others (i.e. Taylor).

nah, behind garcia, the rest of tb's qb stable hasn't really looked all that great...then again i think they've had some o-line issues.

rivers/volek = #1

NFL Exec-maybe I'll just call you genious,

That doesn't mean that:

A. Landry couldn't be here
B. Landry couldn't watch practice
C. Landry couldn't be bonding with his teammates
and so on and so on while not practicing in team activities

Hey, good for Sage Rosenfels! I thought he was a pretty good kid when we drafted him. It's nice to know he's still around. It wouldn't be a bad job at all to have a career as a backup quarterback. In fact, it would be pretty sweet.

Uncle Spence, Have you been following football very long. The players association and CBA prevent players from participating in any traing camp activities unless they are under contract.

Your attempt to punk someone on the blog has made you look ....well never mind

Sos I noticed something in my neighborhood last night that got me to 'thinking'. AMTTS or the Guv, either of you drive a late-model red Honda Civic hatchback, or has Chris Cooley finally seen the bright city lights and moved to this neck of our urban woods? There's this car with a Led Zepplin sticker, a Utah State shout-out, and a huge fathead-style Skins helmet. (How this guy, whoever he is, can see out his rearview is a different question.) A) When was the last time you saw a Zepp sticker: 1983-ish? And 2) How many Utah State alums can there be here in the D.C. metro? Maybe two, Chris and whatever reactionary Repub their Congressman is? I figure one of the two above-mentioned RI posters musta made his car into an homage to his favorite player. After LaRon. And the Reaper, of course. But since LSU and The U stickers are all played out . . .

I thought there was actual rule written into the CBA with the players association that does not allow a player to be on site unless he is under contract.

Was I mistaken about that? Aside for OTA's and min-camps, once the 'season' begins, rooks are not there unless they are being paid.

Lyrics to Leggy Blonde

http://www.hbo.com/conchords/img/episode/lyrics_ep7_driveby.pdf

If VinnCerrato has anything to do with it, then it's understandable why no-brainer decisions are not done. Guy's an idiot when it comes to player personnel decisions.

You'd think with the Vick situation, the problems Miami has had, KC, Oakland, B'more, Arizona all have had QB issues, you'd think #2 would become more scrutinized.

Also the concussion issue is starting to get heat (for all players)but that could become the QB killer.

Who are starters with history of concussion that we know of? Green. Hasselback?

If Vinny Cerrato has anything to do with it, then it's understandable why no-brainer decisions are not done. Guy's an idiot when it comes to player personnel decisions.

I don't fault Landry for not being there. He is not under contract and the Redskins are partly-responsible for that ("It takes two to tango" (one of my most favorite lines from Billy Madison)).

Would it have been nice if he was local so that he could start up right away after contract signing? Yes. Should it be expected of him? No.

dcsween,
Holcomb was traded to Philly

RICHMOND, Va. -- One of Michael Vick's co-defendants pleaded guilty to dogfighting charges Monday in Richmond federal court, in a plea agreement with prosecutors.

I thought my show was awesome yesterday. I got my boy E to finally hook up without a tender bone in his body and my brother was a stuffed animal hooking up on craigslist. I think we are the best show on television. So Jason cover the Redskins and watch the a good up coming show that sings about there life.
I for one want everyone to watch next week because there is a bomb shell and Jason I will chat with you then. Chow. Vince

Forrest,

IM NOT SAYING HE WOULD PARTICIPATE. I WAS SAYING HE SHOULD BE HERE SO HE CAN GET RIGHT TO PRACTICE AND NOT LOSE ANY TIME. HE COULD'VE OF SIGNED AND GOT HIS PHYSICAL DONE RIGHT AWAY AND NOT LOSE ANY MORE TIME. NO I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT FOOTBALL, YOU GOT ME.

It'll be great to see LaRon flying around the field, but since he'll have a lot to learn and will be getting use to Pro ball it may be a while before he gets on the field except on special teams or in special situations.

I bet he doesn't start until late in the season. The first part of the season isn't as tough, but he won't be ready.

Look at the schedule, when would you bring him in?

We probably get to see more LaRon him in pre-season though.

Stumped,

I agree with you on the fact that Landry won't start right away. Greg Williams likes these guys to earn their positions, as I recall Taylor didn't start till the 3rd or 4th regular season game.

I heard that Landry put the push on Segal last night to get it done, because he didn't want to sit out any more than the weekend.

I like the sound of that. No Lisa I didn't train double G. I hope his man boobs are gone.

We probably get to see more LaRon him in pre-season though.

Posted by: Stumped | July 30, 2007 12:54 PM

Translation:
We probably will get to see more of LaRon in pre-season games though (versus the regular season).

I think it will take a lot to see Landry starting the first game. Taylor had an increadable preseason and he didn't start.

That doesn't mean that:

A. Landry couldn't be here
B. Landry couldn't watch practice
C. Landry couldn't be bonding with his teammates
and so on and so on while not practicing in team activities

Posted by: Uncle Spence | July 30, 2007 12:31 PM

OK Uncle Spence, whatever you didn't say!

If Sean Taylor's nickname is 'meast' do you think that Grilliam's nickname was 'moobs'? Maybe that's why he dropped the weight.

spence, i understood you the first time as most of us did. don't have to shout.

i think the reason why agents say to stay home is because if he was staying in ashburn/va/md/dc what the heck will he be doing? he's wasting money on room and board AND higher propensity to get in trouble cuz you got nothin to do. so the message to these kids is "stay home where you can workout with family and friends, out of trouble and i'll call you as soon as i hear something."

diddy, i'm glad you agree. and i also agree with you and jason that entourage is stale. and yes, someone please kill E.

i'm waiting for LOST to come back.

and Carnivale. :)

and 49ers will be the biggest bust in the nfl this year. Arizona will take that division. thanks to Russ Grimm coached O-line.

"12:35 p.m. ET

Here are some highlights from 9-on-9 and 11-on-11 work as the team wrapped up Monday morning's practice.

Clinton Portis caught a swing pass in stride, then charged up-field. He split two defenders--Jerametrius Butler and Lemar Marshall--to burst into the secondary.

Pierson Prioleau leaped high to tip a pass, breaking up a play.

Jason McAddley made a nice grab of a Jordan Palmer pass, then absorbed a hard hit by Reed Doughty. McAddley bounced off Doughty and turned up-field.

Jason Campbell connected with Chris Cooley on a 40-yard touchdown pass. Cooley found space in the secondary and caught Campbell's pass in stride for the score.

Shawn Springs looks like he's rounding into form: he showed solid tackling form on a swing pass to Ladell Betts. Springs refused to let Betts get past him, standing him up until other tacklers could arrive.

Later, Springs recorded an interception, stepping in front of a Jordan Palmer pass.

Fourth-year defensive end Jamaal Green, vying for a roster spot, showed good play recognition. H charged Chris Samuels on a pass rush, then quickly drifted back into coverage when he saw that the play was a short pass to Rock Cartwright across the middle. Green arrived in time to help tackle Cartwright.

Omar Stoutmire logged an interception late in practice. Jordan Palmer's pass bounced off the hands of Marcus Mason and floated into the arms of Stoutmire.

12:30 p.m. ET

Here's a quick recap of some action from Monday morning's practice. Players were in full pads. We'll start with some 7-on-7 work.

Mike Espy grabbed a pass three yards short of the end zone, but he was met by Shawn Springs, who stood Espy up and refused to allow him to get into the end zone. Eventually, Springs tackled Espy--at the 2-yard line.

Rookie fullback Pete Schmitt received words of encouragement from Al Saunders after a nice grab. "

To Lisa's delight,it sounds like Springs will be stout this year!

zebra, please credit the source.

To answer my own question, if all goes well I wouldn't expect LaRon to start until possibly week 10 (Cowboys) or week 11 (Bucs).

Of course, his playing time will increase as the season progresses.

Thanks for the update Z. You know Lisa is going out right now to buy those Springs thongs. LMGO

i'm waiting for LOST to come back.

Posted by: dealer | July 30, 2007 01:15 PM

You got that right. Still can't get over the season finale. NEVER saw that coming.

Inigo, please apologize to Jack's kids.

"Randoms: Mike Sellers was hobbled by a right knee injury this morning and had a huge ice bag taped to his leg."

I'm not one to wish injuries on anyone, but I guess I'm one of the few that thinks Sellers is very replaceable/average.

I know there was this huge blog on here last year on who was the best "Redskin" and I got all kinds of flack for belittling Sellers, I guess I'm just not a fan of his.

Saying that I hope he gets better quickly. :)

- Ray

"...Jason Campbell connected with Chris Cooley on a 40-yard touchdown pass. Cooley found space in the secondary and caught Campbell's pass in stride for the score..."

Hope to hear this at least 10 times this season.

"The contract is pretty complicated, so the player and agent will likely want to take some time to peruse it thoroughly in print before signing (call it the LaVar Lesson)."

Jason,

Reading a complicated $42 million contract, before signing it, is only the "Lavar Lesson" to one of the Postons. To anyone else, it's common sense.

yeah, 4-12 that was sweet.

***ducking out of the way of the hammer heading for Ray***

Smart man 4-12. Hammer in both hands. Smack to the back of your damn head Ray.

LL is supposed to practice this afternoon, so he isn't missing any additional time anyways. If he had stayed, he wouldn't be allowed at Redskins Park, so he wouldn't have had any chance to "bond" with teamates since they are in training camp and are somewhat "secluded". Uncle Spence should be happy to read that LL pushed his agent to get the deal done. That shows me he wants to be here.

"...found space in the secondary and caught Campbell's pass in stride for the score..."

Hope to hear this at least 10 times this season.

Posted by: 4-12 | July 30, 2007 01:26 PM

Don't forget that was the Redskins secondary they scored it against - careful what you wish for! :-)

New season, new game plan. Hopefully OUR boys are more competitive in the 4th quarter this year, I hate being blacked out before 3 o'clock Sunday afternoon.

I'm pumped that Laron flexed his muscle with his agent, though it doesn't seem he gave up much dollar wise. I imagine Taylor may want his dollars, hopefully he'll earn on Sundays and not through outbursts Monday through Saturday. As fans, We need to start demanding professionalism from our stars as well as our reserves.

Flight of the Conchords is definitely my cup of tea - Bowie in Space, Anti-New Zealandism, Band Meeting Roll - though I disagree with Jasno's Entourage comments. I like the dynamic of Drama and Turtle, parralelling E and Vince. Billy's character is great too.

Question on injuries for true diehards out there.
Do we typically see these "smaller" injuries early in TC as guys get used to pads, hitting, heat etc?
Or are they pretty spread out over the course of TC?

There is physically fit and there is football fit as we always hear.

Cooley's deal isn't done yet because Snyder harbors a desire to pay Cooley like a chump and will drag out negotiations until the last minute. At a certain point, Cooley will lose patience and test free agency. Same scenario as Dockery.

The skins do not pay their own players unless they can same some money. Guys like Dockery and Cooley don't get a new deal while Jansen and Thomas get "long-term extensions" because the team can save money in the ever important now. This team simply does not manage for a time horizon beyond next Tuesday.

hey jason -
was wondering if you had heard anything about the skins trying to sign simeon rice. although he's old, it looks like this is the skins one opportunity to upgrade the d-line.

Miami - Green/Lemon
Jets - Pennington/Clemens
Bills - Losman/Nall

AFC South
Houston - Schaub/Rosenfels
Indy - Manning/Sorgi
Jax - Leftwich/Grarrad
Ten - Young/K. Collins

Posted by: sfskin | July 30, 2007 12:16 PM

Green/Lemon? Well isn't that sublime? So basically everyone is SJKd if their #1 goes down except maybe Jax. My personal favorite is Frye/Quinn. Born to lose.

Sorry Dealer, I credited Gary Fitzgerald twice earlier, so I figured e'ryone knew where it was coming from.

Say, are you a car dealer per chance? I could use a good deal on a car. I know you say cabbie, but somehow I never believed you?

nycskinsfan--

Simeon Rice is not only old. He's also unproductive, limited to third down duty, a me-first guy, and a problem in the locker room. He wouldn't be an upgrade, but a downgrade.

He's exactly the Big Name type of washed up player the 'Skins have gone after in the past. Let's hope they've learned the lesson to avoid this mistake.

TB;

How good of a Guard was Dockery? 7th best in the league? No? Well then dont act as if you 'know' what synder will do. He shows restraint one time and people up here kill him.

The same peeps who b*tch about him spending too much (SJK). Some people just like to complain.

Cooley(voted 7th best TE in the league) will get done. Taylor will get done. We will have to cut a lot of older vets... but if this year is a bust they will need to do so to start over with a new coach anyway ;)

"... Do we typically see these "smaller" injuries early in TC as guys get used to pads, hitting, heat etc? Or are they pretty spread out over the course of TC? ..."

Posted by: sfskin | July 30, 2007 01:37 PM

Seems like the only reliable information we EVER get out of training camps is about injuries, which seem to happen randomly from beginning till the end, continuing throughout the preseason and season.

The teams that don't have training camp injuries are liars or otherwise have pants on fire.

Or dealer, are you the type of dealer who is familiar with the BOOGER SUGAR!! (SJK)

I love him on the field...but I'd sure love for Clinton Portis to shut up about how hard training camp is...We we 5-11...you can't complain about shti!!!

I love him on the field...but I'd sure love for Clinton Portis to shut up about how hard training camp is...We were 5-11...you can't complain about shti!!!

Z, everyone knows that dealer is our cordial leader for a spirited game of UNO.

Its mostly going to be about what the offense does this year.....the last time we had a very good offense was under Norv...long time ago.

1999, to be exact. Why did we give up on Brad Johnson again?

Well jm, I am expecting to hear from mr Fitzgerald that on fan appreciation day, during drills, a woman ran out onto the field with a football to compel springs to tackle her. Springs would THGO.

No disrespect intended Lisa, and none to Mrs Springs either... im just sayin

Old School, g'afternoon! I agree with you about how this can roll. Personally I think the beauty of Gibbs' rushing offense was how it gobbled up the time of possession clock when things were going well. Though he has the stats to prove he did not rush less last season (see HoBo's article about Saunders), the kind of rushing game he had did NOT keep the defense off the field. From the few scraps of info from the fans and bloggers who went to three days of training camp, it looks TO ME that Saunders will indeed have lots of four receiver sets like Lloyd says (only of the four receivers, two of them will be tight ends).

Our friend at the Washington Times is reporting Sellers says it is nothing major, just a bruise.

The Reaper left the morning practice with ice on his right hand and right ankle.

"The Reaper left the morning practice with ice on his right hand and right ankle"

Posted by: Wes Mantooth | July 30, 2007 02:13 PM

I'd hate to see the other guy...

"may i remind these nfl execs. that JC hasn't done ANYTHING in the nfl yet. i really hope that these nfl execs don't also think that eli manning can play too."

Dealer this guy is the real deal as I pointed out months ago. He is probably going to be a lot better than Manning. He won't be up to McNabb yet but McNabb has had yearly injury problems. That is currently the flaw that I see. Gibbs KNOWS, REALLY KNOWS that it takes more than 1 starting QB in today's NFL.

I couldn't help but notice Gibbs comment about the running backs situation when he was asked. Clinton is the starter but Betts will get his share of carries. And then he went on to say that he wished that other positions could be like that. Where both players work so well together.

This seemed to be a pointed criticism related to the QB position? If Ramsey had stayed perhaps he might be the starter. But what happens if WHEN he goes down? Campbell steps right up. Just like Ramsey stepped in for MB in the Giants game. MB probably doesn't have the physical stamina to do 16 games. They need another QB or 2 in the wings. It sounds like Bramlet may get a shot, perhaps Palmer. Todd Collins seems like he may be on his way out.

Bottom line Campbell will be good. But because he will be good he will also become a target. In a way the best situation may be the one the over-the-hill gang had. If teams knocked out Kilmer they knew they would have to face Jurgenson. Most typically preferred facing Kilmer.
Sonny was averaging around 28 points a game.

Admittedly based on an "n" of three days of training camp, scattered bits of insight suggest that Jordan Palmer is erratic at best and seemingly flailing among the others in the QB pool.

http://www.bangcartoon.com/2007/predraft.htm

http://www.bangcartoon.com/2007/money.htm

Why when you click on Gregg Williams' name on the blog up top it goes to nutrisystem or when you click the word "genious" it goes to a picture of Einstein. Who is doing this stuff?

Why in the world would people already be talking about contract extensions for Jason Campbell??? He had 7 starts in meaningless games. I think he's going to be a good QB, but there's a whole lot of risk in signing an unproven QB. It's getting to be ridiculus how early into a contract player have to be extended. I'm not saying that we should let Jason go to free agency in 2010, I'm just saying let the guy play 16 games before you crown him. But in the words of Denny Green, "if you want to go ahead and crown him, then crown him"

Flight of the Conchords... I tried watching it twice. Reminded me of something a couple of 7th graders with some musical talent would do. Completely unwatchable.

Last week's Entourage was weak. This past Sunday's was much better. The show has legs and consistently has at least one laugh out loud moment.

John from Cincinatti=Deadwood without a coherent story. Same dialogue. Many of the same actors. But seemingly going absolutely nowhere. Maybe Milch is back on the powder.

I agree. First let's worry about Cooley's contract. Then we can begin discussing Taylor's, and then maybe Campbell.

1999, to be exact. Why did we give up on Brad Johnson again?

Posted by: Matt | July 30, 2007 02:12 PM

Well, as I recall, because every fan in the stadium was booing him incessantly by midway through the season. I remember at half-time of the Titans MNF game in the 2000 season when the whole stadium was calling for Jeff George (despite the fact that the Redskins were 6-2 at the time). It's a little hard to take people seriously at this point when they now claim they always loved him.

BTW, a Redskins starting quarterback being booed out of the starting spot the season after a playoff appearance? Call it the Mark Brunell-treatment.

People are talking about extending Campbell's contract now because it would be a lot cheaper today than a year from now IF he performs the way we all hope he'll perform. Good franchises plan more than a year ahead.

Of course, if he performs like Patrick Ramsey, then we could extend him next year for the vet minimum. It's a risk, but the people Jason are talking to think that it's one we should take.

And it is possible to worry about Cooley's contract and about Campbell's at the same time. The 'Skins FO has enough worriers to do both.

1999, to be exact. Why did we give up on Brad Johnson again?

Posted by: Matt | July 30, 2007 02:12 PM

Well, as I recall, because every fan in the stadium was booing him incessantly by midway through the season. I remember at half-time of the Titans MNF game in the 2000 season when the whole stadium was calling for Jeff George (despite the fact that the Redskins were 6-2 at the time). It's a little hard to take people seriously at this point when they now claim they always loved him.

BTW, a Redskins starting quarterback being booed out of the starting spot the season after a playoff appearance? Call it the Mark Brunell-treatment.

VTMmatt

om the money. I have been one of campbell's biggest supporters early and often, but it is to early to start thinking about contract until he lives up to the potential on the field...let him play this season, lead the team and establish himself then if he has proven it, you lock him up as the future.

dc

I have said for years(before i knew about this blog) the offense i wanted the skins to run was Kansas City's....now we will see what it can do... no more transition year...its a new era.

VTMatt - It always makes good business sense to explore your options to see if you can get a good deal. What if Campbell plays really well (as we hope) the next two years? What level of salary are you looking at $80-120M? If you see promise and can extend him, for say, $40M; that is something you need to look at.

I agree that he has only played in 8 games (not sure I would agree with you that they were meaningless considering we didn't get eliminated from the playoffs until week 12 or so). I also grant you that there is risk involved, but there is risk both ways.

RIP Bill Walsh =[

The teams that don't have training camp injuries are liars or otherwise have pants on fire.

Posted by: dcsween | July 30, 2007 01:57 PM

http://mail.google.com/mail/?attid=0.4&disp=thd&view=att&th=11418359f6d4d351

This picture has my pants on fire!

any word on moss these first few days? i read he had a few nagging injuries in the post-season.

you guys are really showing your age when you talk about flight of the conchords. sound like my grandmother trying to articulate why she doesn't like it.

IMO signing JC now really is a moot point. He has not proved anything although the potential is there. Even if you lock him up now long term for less money the contract will have to be redone if he outperforms it like we all hope he will.

"POSTED 12:59 p.m. EDT, July 30, 2007

COULD REVIS RE-ENTER THE DRAFT?

A league source tells us that the primary snag in the talks between the Jets and cornerback Darrelle Revis, the No. 14 overall pick in the draft, is that the Jets are insisting on Revis signing a six-year deal, but that Revis wants a five-year contract.

With so many players taken in the top 16 signing deals of five years in duration instead of the CBA maximum of six seasons, the refusal of the Jets to do a five-year deal could cause this to become one of the lengthier holdouts of the bunch. And there are indications that, unless the Jets yield on this point, Revis might sit out the entire season and re-enter the draft.

Keep this in mind -- the uncle of Revis, Sean Gilbert, once sat out an entire season in a dispute with the Redskins. And thereafter Gilbert got paid a bunch of money.

"

My problem is Brandon LLoyd... i was at ashburn Friday... not only was he wearing buddy shorts like a you know what, he was running at 75%... He really looks like he just does not give a damm about football....

The good news is that the secondary looked real good... Once landry is there too, this could be a real good secondary.... hopefully the two lines can stay healthy.... Jason campbell looked good til the 11 on 11 drills, he did not look downfield at all, and when he did throw Sean Taylor dropped an interception and so did Marcus Washington...

skins have ALREADY paid PREMIUM for JC's backup services by giving up 3(happy skinz?) first day picks.

why would ANYONE suggest they "lock him up while you can" is/are plain SKINS HATER(s). as a fan i don't want him get paid until he actually wins a damn game that MATTERS. WTF!?! what kind of execs are these. and you KNOW if they sign JC to a longterm deal these same execs will be the ones criticizing the FO for being frivilous.

please! cooley and seantay need to be paid. JC can wait another full year unless he leads them to the superbowl.

and i'm glad st. joe isn't even considering trading Mark Brunell. i completely did a 180 on that from last year. i'm unreasonable, illogical, full of hope. i'm a fan.

dealer - glad to hear that anyone that disagrees with your point of view is a "skins hater." Let me ask you what you think before I have an opinion because I certainly am a fan.

Uncle Spence, I understand what you're saying. My first thought when I read that he was not in state was...why? If a deal is imminent, he could save the few hours it takes to pack and fly in if he was already here staying in a hotel. A few hours could mean the difference between being at practice this afternoon and not being there til tomorrow. Most draftees fly in and stay locally when the deal is close. I guess we're just nitpicking, though. Hopefully one practice wont make that much of a diff. Also, who thinks Landry will take til week 10 or 11 to start ? Even Greg Williams praise him during minicamp. I think he starts on day 1.

zebra, i didn't see your other posts. we're always ibtchin about the skins and snyder. the blog that fitz is doing is awesome. I LOVE IT! so why not give him and http://www.redskins.com crew the props it deserves every chance you or i post it. cuz you know for show we'd be all over them and snyder when they do something wrong.

that's all i'm saying.

Breaking News
Bill Walsh has died of leukemia at 75.

http://www.bangcartoon.com/2007/junetoon.htm

Life is short. Enjoy it while it last.

From all accounts, Bill Walsh enjoyed his to the fullest. God Speed.....

wow! didn't even know he had leukemia.

Guys....

I know thereare those who don't to beat up on Mark Brunell. And I preface what I say with the fact that I hold him in the highest regard as a person. HOWEVER....

It is crazy to suggest that he's anything more than a capable backup at this point in his career. Last year, he couldn't throw the ball more than 10 yards downfield. Seriously. His arm was dead. Just like it has been since he's been here.

And the boos here last year were more directed at Gibbs last year (or at least as much) who refused to make a necessary change. That game against Houston was the worst thing that happened to us. Made people think Brunell could still play. I don't remember all the stats but were all but 4 or 5 of his passes either behind the line or within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage. Unfortunately the dink and dunk didn't work against a good defense.

Now that being said, am I glad that he's the backup? I don't know yet. I think it might be too tempting since Gibbs has a man crush on Brunell (goes back to him saving his life at the restaurant). But I guess experience matters but unless he can throw the deep out, he shouldn't play.

Indeed, RIP Bill Walsh. A class act, a great coach, and, by all accounts, a great man. Wonder what St. Joe will say about this today...I assume JLaC is on it.

Loved that Daunte/Trent cartoon, thanks JonTPK126!

bt, my love. when i said "skins hater" i was refering to the anonmous sources that JLA is quoting. your opinion along with mine don't count for shti except for the blog count.

so no, i wasn't hatin on any of my blog peeps no matter how differing their opinion is of our beloved team. politics is a different matter. sorry you read it that way.

"please! cooley and seantay need to be paid. JC can wait another full year unless he leads them to the superbowl."

One reason they may be waiting would be to recoup some of the salary cap. By next year the 7 million under should grow into a larger chunk. Lloyd and Philip Daniels could be gone. MB could be gone. And even Portis could be gone. Some dead cap monies will have been paid off. If things go well thats when they should be able to re-up the contracts. Some expensive guys are going to fall off the cliff after this training camp. Others early in the season.

I guess the idea is to determine the "core group" of veteran stalwarts, as Gibbs might say it, get them under long-term contracts, and then work to fill in the gaps around them. This is the 4th year under Gibbs. By the end of this season they should have a pretty good handle on that.

And they seem to be taking greater care in player selection than in the past 3 seasons. Guess we'll have to see how it all pans out.

caro, we were hatin on brunell last year pretty bad. the only person who was left defending him was "Lisa".

we all want JC to be the next elway. and everyone agrees let's see how he looks against Balmer and then against Tenn.

sorry...talkin too much...i can always plead blog count...

dealer - thanks for the clarification. i guess i took it too personal.

In the WaPo photo gallery from Skins training camp, in the photo of Joe Gibbs looking to the sky thinking about the thunder, you can't tell from the straight on shot that Sellers colored the bottom part of his goatee blond. I like that pick though b/c you can see just how huge these guys are b/c St. Joe is in the shot.

Also, I recognize that, with camp now started, there is plenty of Skins content to discuss, but I need a read on when I can post about non-Skins content (in posts that also contain Skins-relevant stuff). I'm already nostalgic for the previous six weeks of blather here. Specifically, how long is the "spoiler waiting period" on talking about the Simpsons Movie?

Brandon Lloyd needs to go - i prefer diva receivers that provide awesome quotes "park my sh#t bit@h" Gardner comes to mind

periculum.

very wise. the one third or more of our team we turnover after this season will include lots of old big money names, freeing money to spend on retaining key young core guys heading into thier prime.

I'm actually kind of psyched about a healthy, non-injury-hiding, labrum-healed Brunell at the #2 spot. As QB insurance, seems as solid as Sears (which is Coldwell Banker, right?). Anyway, he's a long time gamer, including extended seasons of playing hurt, and he won't face the wear-and-tear of starting. Plus he already re-negotiated down his contract (while continuing to pay the mortgage and save for college). The Skins QB situation looks brighter to me now than it has in many, many years.

JLaC's sources are def Hater's of the 'Skins to the fullest.

Campbell isn't even halfway through his original contract and people are talking in the reporter's ear to disinform.

Won't work here buddy.....

Give me a couple of weeks. I haven't even see ntransformers yet Sween.....

Re: Cooley - Yeah, he needs to get extended, but everything should be fine because (hopefully) nothing is coming out of either camp being unhappy that a contract wasn't extended.

O, JLaC - Were these the same 'personnel' guys you spoke to and they couldn't figure out why we would jump back into the 1st round to pick up JC when they thought he was def going to go in the 2nd round?

Bill Walsh always seemed like an upstanding guy to me. From a football perspective, it looks like no fewer than ten of the current NFL head coaches come from his "coaching tree". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Walsh_%28football_coach%29
May he rest in peace.

That said, I still didn't like those Coors Light commercials. I think its deceptive to sell Coors Light with a label that says "beer."

On extending Campbell now, before he gets to expensive, it would be nice. But if he becomes a Pro-bowl caliber player, how soon would it be before he starts demanding ANOTHER contract because this hypothetical extension is too little money. "Locking up" a player really means nothing in a league where no one (teams and players) really honor the contracts they sign.

RIP Bill Walsh

yeah, i wonder how joe gibbs will handle this Bill Walsh news. his grandson et all...so sad.

4th--How does someone thinking that JC will be "a real good one" amount to a Skins hater? Sounds like Skins-envy to me.

Sween--Nice way to think about the QBs and it makes a lot of sense. Interesting to see how the competition for number 3 turns out. And whether Brunell will save enough to send his kids to Yale or will have to settle for a mid-price state school with the pay cut.

I'm not one to wish injuries on anyone, but I guess I'm one of the few that thinks Sellers is very replaceable/average.

Posted by: Ray | July 30, 2007 01:25 PM

Sure - maybe we can get T.J. Duckett for a low draft choice or two to replace Sellers.

Sween,

Admittedly based on an "n" of three days of training camp, scattered bits of insight suggest that Jordan Palmer is erratic at best and seemingly flailing among the others in the QB pool.

Posted by: dcsween | July 30, 2007 02:23 PM

He's a rookie; what do you expect? There is nobody else in the pool to compare him to.

If he had stayed, he wouldn't be allowed at Redskins Park, so he wouldn't have had any chance to "bond" with teamates since they are in training camp and are somewhat "secluded".

Posted by: robrown22 | July 30, 2007 01:32 PM

After the paintball incident, LaRon probably isn't interested in doing any more bonding anyway.

Speaking of Brunell's paycut, Snyder's taking a real haircut on his Six Flags investment. Stock's down about 40 percent in the last six weeks, probably costing Snyder around $24 million. Chump change compared to his Redskins investment, but maybe it's diverting his attention from monkeying around with the roster. That means that the Sorcerer's Apprentice, Vinnie, will be making the call on Simeon Rice.

Have any of the DE's been making some plays?
(A loaded question if there ever was one.)

Walsh was a fantastic coach/exec/leader. His record was amazing. Especially since he competed against Gibbs and Ditka and Parcells just to get to a Super Bowl. Sad to see him go. He had been ill for a long time and had been public about it. He was still able to do things in public until pretty recently.

KK - Every time JLaC tells us something from his 'sources' its always about something the 'Skins should have did or why they haven't done anything about something. Too much complaining from other football teams about ours.....

"[Jordan Palmer]'s a rookie; what do you expect? There is nobody else in the pool to compare him to."

Posted by: Stumped | July 30, 2007 04:06 PM

If it was that easy, every QB drafted would make the roster. The other guys in the pool to compare him to would be Campbell, Brunell, Collins, and Bramlett.

Run Lloyd against LaRon when LaRon gets to camp. Maybe then we'll see more than 75 percent from BL.

BadaSJK rookie against, dropcrotch receiver.

Gary Fitzgerald at the Skins site had this to say about Walsh:

"As Gibbs is to the Redskins, Walsh is to the 49ers.

The first time Gibbs and Walsh squared off was on Jan. 8, 1984, in the NFC Championship game at RFK Stadium. The Redskins were favored, but the 49ers hung tough. Washington won 24-21 to advance to the Super Bowl.

Overall, Gibbs was 2-3 against Walsh-coached teams."

Question: I know that Gibbs is from the "Air Coryell" coaching tree. That wiki article shows Walsh's coaching tree. IS THERE a coaching tree that stems from Joe Gibbs?

Sween - Gibbs is not the originator. Coryell/Robinson (of USC/Bucs) are on the top of Gibbs' tree. Norv is on there. The MAd Sceintist is on there. As well as Cam Cameron. That's just off the top of my head........

John Madden is also a branch on Gibbs' coaching tree, remember? Madden got rid of him before he went to USC, or something like that.......

and thanks jason! again how does lenny peskarelli get his info before anyone else?

it's uncle joon isn't it??? c'mon you can tell us.

Posted by: dealer | July 30, 2007 12:04 PM

In the Landry case, Fatsorelli has a direct line because Segal is his buddy. Notice that Fatsorelli broke the story at 1:00 AM and no one else had it until after sunrise.

I meant McKay, not Robinson.

From Wiki:

"Gibbs attended Cerritos Junior College and then San Diego State University (SDSU), where he played tight end, offensive guard and linebacker on the football team, coached by Don Coryell. Gibbs graduated from SDSU in 1964 and earned a master's degree in 1966.
"

"One reason they may be waiting would be to recoup some of the salary cap. By next year the 7 million under should grow into a larger chunk. Lloyd and Philip Daniels could be gone. MB could be gone. And even Portis could be gone. Some dead cap monies will have been paid off. If things go well thats when they should be able to re-up the contracts. Some expensive guys are going to fall off the cliff after this training camp."

GEEZ!!!!! Can we pay attention to training camp and the season before we start worring about next offseason???? Some of you are too wrapped up in all the blah blah politics and forget this is a football team and they actaully play games for our entertainment...Get a grip! All I'm worried about right now is they get through camp and preseason with no injuries and to beat the Dolphins!

HAIL!

HAIL!

"One reason they may be waiting would be to recoup some of the salary cap. By next year the 7 million under should grow into a larger chunk. Lloyd and Philip Daniels could be gone. MB could be gone. And even Portis could be gone. Some dead cap monies will have been paid off. If things go well thats when they should be able to re-up the contracts. Some expensive guys are going to fall off the cliff after this training camp."

GEEZ!!!!! Can we pay attention to training camp and the season before we start worring about next offseason???? Some of you are too wrapped up in all the blah blah politics and forget this is a football team and they actaully play games for our entertainment...Get a grip! All I'm worried about right now is they get through camp and preseason with no injuries and to beat the Dolphins!

HAIL!

HAIL!

If I am correct i do believe that Al Saunders is from the same tree as Gibbs

Others from the Coryell coaching tree

Ernie Zampese (How could we have forgotten him!)
Jim Hanifan
Rod Dowhower

Once again, glad L2 has signed or super close to signing. He has to earn his playing time, imo. I expect p2 to hold down the spot for awhile.

Re-signing Cooley is a good idea, as mentioned, he is a core redsking player. He should only get better with more experience in this 2 yr old offense.

I don't think re-upping JC's contract is a big deal one way or the other. Later, if he feels he's worth more, he'll just hold out for a better deal. Its best to keep him current. And current right now isn't much. He has proven anything to me, yet. I hope he becomes a superstar and demands Brady/Peyton type money. That would be a good thing.

And for all you HBO fans, I like John From Cincinnati. I think its a great show and look forward to it each week. Sometimes I'll watch it over again before the new episode comes out. Anything involving surfing has to be watchable. I still haven't figuared it out, but thats okay I don't have to be on top of everything.

I think its deceptive to sell Coors Light with a label that says "beer."

Posted by: dcsween | July 30, 2007 03:59 PM

HA! Great one, sween! Couldn't agree more. Tho I enjoy a good lager without too much of a hoppy bite, Coors Light is SJK in a can.

Bill Walsh is one of the greats. Some of my favorite Redskins moments from childhood were the 'Skins/49ers matchups - especially in the post season.

How The F (SJK) could I forget about him.

I believe he was an asst coach at SDU while Coryell was coaching. He was also an assist @ USC. I want to say he was OC while with the Chargers and he took over for Coryell when he retired/got fired from the team.

Zampese mentored Norv and they both ended up in Dallas together where the won their 1st 2 Superbowls of the 90s. They basically saw how the skins were winning their SBs and they decided to copy our style by gettting their own coaches from the same coaching tree.....

You are so right about Flight of the Conchords. The David Bowie episode was classic.

When I looked at the Skins photo gallery ... it was impossible not to notice how big Campbell is. The guy is buff and bigger than most LBs. Hope he can play QB. Looks like it will be a chore to bring him down. Best Campbell stat from last year ... just 1 fumble. Thats very good for any QB ... amazing for a guy playing for the first time after sitting out nearly 2 seasons.

Tom Moore in Indy runs the Coryell offense as well. I think someone mentioned Mike Martz already...

Besides the West Coast or "the real West Coast" (as Dr. Z would put it), the only other system that I can remember having even a modicum of success in the NFL in the last 20 years is the Run and Shoot (it got Detroit to a Championship game, and Houston to the playoffs for several years...and the Bills old K-Gun was a variation thereof).

What tree is Norm Chow on? Never been quite clear on that.

The thing that made Walsh great wasn't X's and O's. Anyone who has played football knows that you can diagram all sorts of random stuff on a whiteboard. You have to get 11 guys going in the right direction and on the same page. You need to work personalities, convince people that they all have the same goal, etc. He, and his disciples, were great, great teachers.

There has been minimal success stemming from the Gibbs I era, at least in terms of head coaches who were once under St. Joe. Bugel and Henning were unmitigated disasters in their respective head coaching stints. Can't think of any others...

What about the '00 Ravens. There best offense was 3 and out.....

P.Diddy, good points about Xs and Os versus actually coaching guys to play.

Are there even any other coaches SINCE Bill Walsh who have generated something that could be considered a "coaching tree"? The only one who comes to mind is Belichek and that's only b/c of Crennel and Mangini. Did the idea of coaching trees die with the new generation of "what have you done for me lately" owners?

Walsh maybe the most influential coach since paul brown (way more old school than me) walsh created an offense that is run more than half the teams in the league and most of todays great(good )coaches were directly coached by or strongly influenced by him.

Walsh left a legacey on the league... Gibbs left(and or)will leave a legacey on a franchise.

But Old School, isn't the H-back scheme a Gibbs' invention? Doesn't that become a league-wide legacy?

Flight of the Conchords is absolutely hilarious; Entourage is weaker this season, but is still entertaining; and when The Wire finally returns, all will be right with the world.

Exactly, Old School.

It's tempting to put Walsh and St. Joe on the same level since they were peers and contemporaries. But in reality, it's Walsh and Don Coryell who should be compared with one another.

I do think in time that there will be a Belichek coaching tree. The list as it stands now is already impressive and will only continue to grow. Belichek is also a great teacher, a brilliant tactician, and truly understands that it's not about a power grab in an organization, but well-defined roles and teamwork. I am always scared off by coaches who want total control, because, just as in business, people who want total control are usually complete SJKs to work (or play) for.

From Wiki Football formations:

"Tight end: The Tight End ("TE") was traditionally a blocking position but is now considered a hybrid wide receiver/lineman. TEs are among the most well-rounded athletes on the field as they must be strong enough to run block and pass block, and agile enough to run pass routes and effectively catch the football. A TE's size presents matchup problems for smaller defenders, such as cornerbacks, while their speed gives them an advantage versus larger but slower defenders such as linebackers. In the 1980s, Washington Redskins coach Joe Gibbs developed a hybrid TE/fullback position called "H-Back"; this player is usually TE-sized and replaces the fullback on the field, but has more pass-catching responsibility and less running unless "flexed" to the usual FB alignment. The H-Back may line up as a second TE on the opposite side from the first, but most commonly lines up immediately behind the first TE. Consequently, that position is still important in the Redskins' offense as of 2006.
"

Sween - Mangini would be from the 'Parcells' tree, not Belicheck.....

Subjective argument Walsh was a football genius His west coast offense is great and is something than can be duplicated its a"system".... Gibbs is a great coach and leader of men, he does not have a "system" rather he has a philosphy (certain things he believes in )from coryell but adapts, tweeks and changes to his team and players not the other way around.

Thats why when bugel or henning etc go out on their own they fail.... its not a system... its Joe Gibbs.

The Belichick coaching tree also includes Nick Saban, Charlie Weis, Kirk Ferentz, Al Groh, and Pat Hill. And the tree is growing fast.

Old School is right. I was looking but only found 4 official Offensive styles. Two of those were Air Coryell and West Coast.......

All I know is (saying with the greatest respect to Walsh), We betta neva eva switch to the WC offense.

dc

Credit should Go to LT for creating the H-back

Sounds like the manzere is handling this rook different than the rest. Bout time he stops acting like Larry Brown with the young players.

4:35 p.m. ET
As expected, LaRon Landry is not at practice. Every media outlet is reporting that the deal is done, but from the Redskins' perspective, he's still a holdout until he has signed his contract.

Landry has now missed six practices.

Gregg Williams expects Landry to make it up quickly.

"The mental part of the game is no problem for him," Williams said. "In the physical part of it, he's rare. He just has to come in and be smart."

Williams wants to make sure that Landry doesn't injure himself working too hard to catch up to his teammates, who are now six practices ahead of him.

Belicheck hasn't started any coaching tree...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL_coaching_trees

coaches that have trees mentor young assistants who then go on to get jobs in the league or big D1 college. Gibbs has always surrounded himself primarily with established (old) assistants. The 3 guys on this staff who are young and mentored could from a gibbs tree are, Lazar, Byner and olivadotti.

4th--

That Wiki entry was probably written by Parcells.

Belichick worked for Parcells, but was hardly from his tree. Belichick's been his own man for a long time and Parcells and Belichick had a rather nasty breakup.

New post.

LMGO.

OK, Exclude Belicheck. But what about Crennel, Weis and all the others who coached in NY back in the 80s (Coughlin and Petrino as well as others)?

No question, Flight of the Conchords is the best show on TV. Jason, I'm glad you gave the show a shout. These guys are the 00's Tenacious D. It's witty, surprisingly musical, and deceptively complex. Can't wait to find these guys in concert one of these days.