Great work Jasno! Thanks for keeping us in the loop.

Right now I don't give a rat ass if they black , white, or green! I am very angry that he was killed for nothing. WTF is going on with our young people?

Posted by: jm220 | November 30, 2007 01:29 PM

Jasno,

You have done a stellar job with all of this! Thanks!!

Would be hard to imagine the Skins are going to list WR James Thrash (ankle) and FB Mike Sellers (back) as doubtful or out. They missed practice again and have not been on the field really much at all that I can think of this week from what we see at practice
This one is a little confusing. You mean they will likely be listed as doubtful or out???

Is anyone surprised that Joe Gibbs didn't refer to the investigating police as "super smart"?

"cruel and unusual punishment"

An underneath route with Sean Taylor and LaRon playing safety.

Posted by: _Stumped_ | November 30, 2007 01:29 PM

"cruel and unusual punishment" part 2

Having the coach call for the punter to fake it and run on 4th and 21 when Sean Taylor was in the secondary.

Yeah tafka, and they were investigating their guts out!

i know no one has been convicted or anything but THIS makes "sense". THIS makes a lot of "sense".

mr. wilbon, THIS is NOT SURPRISING!!!!! and there is no corporate propaganda either!

again, the way the family reacted to this tragedy has been just admirable. what a classy family!

Boy, that was definitely a Gibbs quote, huh?

Gosh, I love that kind of talk.

I'm so numb I can't be angry.
What is done is done. If they've got the killers, I hope they've got the evidence to go with it. Then they'll get their due.

If there is a hold on executions in Florida, perhaps the judge would consider allowing the killers to play scout team at Redskins Park.

JM 220,

Our society has created a generation of people that "live without regret". The lack common sense, manners, or integrity. I have 5 teen age children and that is the way they roll.

Back in the day, if kids were acting squirrely your neighbor could put a boot in their can.

Today (most) parents can't/won't reprimand their children without fear of reprecussion.

Nice sween!

So you're still looking to blame Sean? Now it's his fault for being down there without permission? He also didnt have the alarm on apparntly. And he wielded a machete trying to defend himself. Please, let's keep trying to find ways to blame things on a dead 24-year-old who had really turned things around for himself professionally and who was NEVER associated with any of the horrible things you people in the media pretended.

One thing I don't understand: If these are the same 3 that broke in 8 days prior and supposedly went through all the rooms and possible a safe, then why did they come back...did they think he was all of a sudden gonna leave a few grand at home the next week. And what about the knife on his pillow? Since they wanted to rob him and brag about it and came back empty handed do you think that they decided to take things to a whole new level by killing him? There are just so many questions that I wish we had answers to. I just hope these guys get the maximum penalty possible!!

Just my thoughts, Rosenhaus was laying the ground work for a cover story, just in case.

Forrest, thats about as spot-on as you can get. I'm 37, and I learned from the back of my old mans hand, and his belt what was right/wrong, and acceptable/not-acceptable. There is such a sense of entitlement among younger generations today.

"cruel and unusual punishment"

Only now do we find the perfect nickname for the Taylor/Landry saftey combination.

(Sigh)

posted by ceevans:

"Yeah tafka, and they were investigating their guts out!"

you said i

posted by ceevans:

"Yeah tafka, and they were investigating their guts out!"

you said it.

I'm glad that they at least are making some progress on the case.

I know etrod, I know...

One things for sure, if there were only three of them, Sean Taylor clearly had them out numbered.

Im definately gonna spank my kids. I dont care if people try to take them away. Kids need to be raised right, and fear sucks but it is a good motivator and deterrant.

rockytop, there was no knife on his pillow. there was a knife on his mom's bed. it was used to open stuff up.

the reason they came back is because they are amatuers. they thought he'd be gone. they thought they'd have free rein over his home during the entire season. when the bedroom door was locked, they tried to break in to get at the safe/drawers in the bedroom. sean did what he knew: he tried to defend his wife and child and went at them with whatever he had available: a machete.

I'm wondering if any of the writers will offer any type of apology, or retract what they said, given the apparent random nature of this heinous act.

Broohaha, I would agree.

If they knew he had a safe in his bedroom from their prior trip, it makes sense that they'd go straight to the bedroom upon arrival. When they only found the door locked, it'd make sense that they'd break the door down. Upon seeing Sean Taylor standing there with a machete, it'd make sense that the kid panicked and fired off a couple of quick shots. When he saw that he had actually shot Taylor, it would also make sense that he panicked again and ran out of the house.

Perhaps we shouldn't be speculating so much so soon, but that seems at least plausible.

Zebraskins,

I agree with you. My kids are not bad, just inconsiderate. We did not spare the rod and spoil the children too much.

Be forewarned though, I spanked my son in public many (13) years ago and some do gooder called the cops. Needless to say they made our lives HELL!

Thanks for the info broohaha. One more question: Are you sure they busted the door down, saw him coming at him and then shot, or just busted the door down and started shooting. Jackie would know, but she hasn't really talked. I think if they were amatures, someone being home would startle them enough to make them leave unless Sean was coming at them. Enough with the speculation though, I just hope his daughter grows up to be a wonderful woman!

It if does turn out that this was a case of random violence strictly related to Sean's wealth I most certainly wouldn't hold my breath waiting for an apology from Wilbon, Shaprio, Cowherd, etc.

Personally I won't be reading anything those guys write ever again and will also never watch anything they're on ever again (PTI, 1/2 time at MNF, Wilbons Monday chat where he routinely disrespects his readers by constantly showing up late, etc.)

Jackie said she was under the covers and saw nothing... at this point, or at least what has been 'reported'

I doubt any of the writers will apologize for their opinions.

(not defending, just saying)

Since it keeps coming up...I spanked my kids a couple of times - before they were 8 or 9 years old - but there are other ways to discipline them - (and no, I'm not talking about wussy little time outs) - I'm never comfortable with hitting anyone. I'm just saying...Kids don't have to be afraid that you are going to hit them to be taught how to do the right thing. My kids are well behaved and I'm always told how mature they are and how respectful they are. Regardless of how you approach discipline, the key thing is the time that you spend with your children, making sure that they know wrong from right.

Good Afternoon Broohaha,
Are you talking to Jason?
If so, why are you lashing out at Jason?

Jason, has refused to run w/ any rumors; he has only gone w/ facts.

Jason, was not attempting to raise questions regarding Sean. I believe Jason was revealing the Rosenhaus was running his mouth [as he is prone to do saying whatever he can to make he and his client look good]and that Rosenhaus' statement has been picked up and ran by all kinds of media outlets including ESPN and yet they have no facts to back up Rosenhaus' claim.

Jason was, I believe, warning us to not believe it just because Rosenhaus' said it, and that he [Jason] was going to continue to investigate and then get back to us.

Am I wrong here folks?
Does anyone else feel this is what Jason was doing?

jjwilson312003,

While I may think the comments you posted may have been insensitive given the circumstances, I agree with you.

As a 23 year old black male who grew up in the projects I seen violence first hand. When I was 12 I seen a man get murdered over a dice game. When I was 14, I had a friend who was killed because his narcotic connection believed he shorted him TEN dollars. It pains me to say, but people of my color, sex, and age typically choose to embrace the life of crime. They've been brainwashed to believe that "White America" doesn't want them and there is no future in pursuing education. In a lot of cases they come from poor families and are looking to make the fast buck. Most of you hit the nail on the head by expressing that color doesn't matter, that a 24 year old is gone forever. For who? For what?

As a wealthy young black man, you have to be careful when you choose to keep your childhood connections. I don't want to compare myself to Sean Taylor, but I did grow up in the inner city and still have ties to the "streets." Unlike many of the people I grew up with I hated it and my PARENTS did as well. It was instilled in me at a young age, that I would not become another statistic. I wouldn't be categorized like so many the males in my neighborhood.

It is still hard to believe that after people like MLK and Malcolm X (After he left the NOI) that black people, especially men, are still hellbent on destorying each other.

But in places like southeast DC they are.

Sounds like the guy who did the bragging talked to police.

A local station in Miami is saying the police have evidence putting these guys in the house.

Space, I don't want them in the house, I want them in the chair, and then I want them in the ground.

RedDMV I have comment but this is not the time and place for it.

Hopefully jspace; if so, great job by the M-D PD.

Red;

Good story, well put, a perspective i suspect not many who post here have.

Understood JM

If it went down like I suspect it did, I'm okay with life in prison. Nothing about what I've read indicates to me that the kid intended to kill him.

hats off Miami PD if they've got this wrapped !! FRY the bastards !

i think he meant based on the fact that they hadn't practiced or been on the field much, he can't see them being listed as anything but doubtful or out.

I hate to advocate death anymore. Especially now, but if these are the people that are responsible then they must go.

I don't mean to jail either...

RedDMV,

I'm not trying to belittle your experiences in any way. But I don't think it's wise to draw these parallels until we KNOW that any of Taylor's past had anything to do with what happened to him. Black people kill black people, white people kill white people, and Latino people kill Latinos. Most violence is intra-racial.

The reason some of us found Shapiro's and Wilbon's initial comments so odious was that nobody knows anything yet. So I'd appreciate it if people refused to allow themselves to get jerked around by assumptions, stereotypes and judgments of Taylor's past (judgments based on incomplete and sparse information fed by a media only out to get your attention and make money).

The talking heads should wait until they can back up their attempts at amateur forensic psychology and/or sociology with more facts.

Killing the kids who did it won't set things right. It won't bring back Sean Taylor, it will just be more death. I can take no comfort in that.

Also RedDMV, if I am misunderstanding your intentions then I apologize in advance for not reading your words properly.

Jspace: intent has nothing to do with it -- this would be a felony murder under Florida law.

From my post on an earlier thread:

whoever did this will likely be charged with felony murder even if they didn't intend to kill ST. Under Florida law (and the law of most states), felony murder is when your actions in the commission of a felony result in the death of someone else, even if you didn't intend to kill them. Here, these guys broke into ST's house at night, which is the definition of burglary -- a felony. So even if they didn't intend to kill him, ST died as a result of these guys' actions in committing a felony.

Penalty for felony murder under Florida law? THE DEATH PENALTY.

RedskinRay, yes, I think Jason is complicit in this. In fact I think he is in some ways at the base of ALL of the negative media attn Sean Taylor got in death. Here is why (Warning you, this will be long.):

In the moments after Sean was shot, the AP had to release a story. What did they do? They put in three sentence-long paragraphs about what facts they knew: Redskins safety Sean Taylor shot in Florida, on the way to hospital. Serious condition.

But that wasn't enough. They needed some filler. Where did they go? washingtonpost.com. What filler did they find? They did a search for "Sean Taylor" and found one of the many articles which the Post ran on him, which inevitably included a "media rap sheet," you know, the typical garbage that JLC tosses in in any article he writes about ST: how he's gotten fined, spit in someone's face, had to deal with a gun charge, a dui, etc. etc.

It really is clear as day. Compare the typical WP filler to what the AP reported in their very first breaking bulleting. They're like exact copies of each other.

So that initial AP article on him being shot went from 3 sentences of what facts we knew about the shooting to 8 paragraphs more or less lifted from the filler the WP has prepared for any Taylor article. This 8 paragraph filler inevitably begins "meanwhile, Taylor has a troubled past and a long history of missteps with the law."

*That is how America at-large got to know Sean Taylor*

So this 8 paragraph filler. What does it say? It goes on to mention two genuine missteps with the law, both of which many of us know are highly dubious and warrant some elaboration: the DUI charge and the gun charge. There is no elaboration though.

Instead, the other 6 paragraphs of that filler that tell us about his other "missteps with the law" tells us about uniform violations, missed rookie symposiums, late hits, spitting, firing agents, missing non-mandatory minicamp... stuff that is hardly indicative of a "troubled past" but more suggests immaturity and brashness. You know, the same thing 95% of young athletes deal with.

In other words, the last six paragraphs of the filler are things that are not at all "legal troubles" and simply do not belong in a story about getting shot and perhaps killed in your own home. Every NFL safety/enforcer type gets late hit penalties. Lots of athletes fire their agents. You think spitting at someone is the wrost thing that has happened on the football field? Do you remember Albert Haynesworth? What about that dude that yelled at an unconscious Trent Green?

In other words, 6 of those 8 paragraphs were WP filler on things that were completely unimportant. Fines, late hits, uniform violations -- i mean, effing uniform violations?? that's an indication that sean taylor might one day get shot at his home while rehabbing a knee injury?

So what am I getting at? The journalistic ease with which JLC and company pegged Sean Taylor a problem child led the AP and the national media to rely on the exalted washington post's opinion of who he was, that filler blurb was taken and run with, nobody paying ANY attention to the fact that his teammates and coaches and old HS friends and family members and girlfriend and hs teachers and everyone under the sun said that he was merely a quiet, guarded individual who, if you got to take wall down, would open up and be a genuinely nice person. he was a tough SOB on the football field. he would spit at you and hit you and beat you and he didn't give a damn if you were a punter.

he was a tough guy. but he was no criminal. he was no thug. he was not some miscreant who was form "tha U" who was inevitably going to die in gang related violence. he was a good person who was a great football player who grew up in a nice middle class neighborhood and went to private school. did he get involved in unsavory things? yes. but, as i said above, the DUI and the gun charge were both EXTREMELY complex stories that cannot be passed off as just typical athlete misbehavior.

That JLC and the WP found it so easy to pigeonhole him in that way led directly to the way the national media covered this story. Instead of having any nuance whatsoever, it was always the same media rap sheet.

I'm no athlete apologist. I used to be a journalist in my prior career. I always loved the industry and was proud of what we did. But this whole episode has shaken my trust in it. I guess I was naive the whole time. I thought there were people who were genuinely fair and balanced about how they did things. Not the case.

RIP Sean Taylor. You were right never to trust the media and not to speak to them. They never treated you fairly. In life or in death.

Penalty for felony murder under Florida law? THE DEATH PENALTY.

Posted by: gr8day4bsbll | November 30, 2007 02:28 PM

AMEN !

Rosenhaus probably made that comment about Sean being down there thinking he might have had to cover for his client. He probably was still in a bit of shock over the shooting himself. No different than if you were a kid and your little brother got in trouble and a grown up questioned you about why he was there in the first place when all implications were he should have been somewhere else.

nobody's mentioning the fact that maybe he just wanted a quick getaway to see his fiancee and baby girl on OFF days from work. he might also have been summoned home due to the previous break-in and chose to go there rather than their coming north.

I'm not saying the guy can't be charged with capital murder, I know he can. And I sure as hell expect the DA to go for it...I'm just saying that if it happened like I think it did, then I could live with the judge not giving him the dp.

Red, agreed on these guys getting fried. I mean, if you're 17 or 19 years old, and you're already looking at life in prison, then no sense keeping them alive.

I liked someone's suggestion I read where they should put those three, or whoever is found guilty, on the practice squad. Only, no pads and no helmets. Let the team have a shot at them. Granted, this is far, far fetched, but it would give the team and Sean's family a nice release.

I think a good punishment for these thugs would be to make them participate in a full contact practice with the Redskins and invite any "U" alumni to come to. Those creeps would never make it out alive.

beep beep

Assuming all three broke into and entered the house, would all three get the death penalty, or just the one that pulled the trigger?

I know this is too soon to speculate...

You know what is sad? If these are the people that did it they won't be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I'm sure their lawyer will find some sort of loophole. If the ages of were 17, 19, and 26 then the lawyer will have the 17 and 19 year old accept a plea bargin, if the state makes one at all. The lawyer will incite that the 26 year old had "control" over them and they were forced to take part in the robbery/murder. Sort of like the case with the DC sniper.

I'm sure Sean Taylor had numerous friends, probably as many he had enemies. If these are the individuals responsible, they won't last long. The state won't have to worry about executing them.
Who ever murdered the people who murdered Taylor, will have to worry about retribution from the people who murdered Taylor. Even if the people who are expected of murdering Taylor actually didn't do it.

The last sentence is confusing, I know. But it explains THE problem with young black males.

A confusing and senseless cycle.

There won't be a death penalty I don't imagine. I think, since it was likely not Murder 1 (I think that's intent), there would be long, long prison sentences. I could be totally wrong, and that wouldn't be the first time though.

Curt -- all three could be charged with felony murder, if all three committed the initial felony of burglary. It doesn't matter who pulled the trigger.

Of course, a more likely scenario is that the other two cop plea deals to avoid felony murder charges in exchange for testifying against the shooter.

Ok Ok ..they get life and the "tight-ends" become "wide-receivers"..and eventually meet it there..I'm Ok with that

ywill316 -- again, intent doesn't matter. Scroll up a few posts. Death penalty will be on the table for this one, since it's felony murder (which is charged similarly to 1st degree murder, with the same sentencing guidelines, but where you don't have to prove intent).

For those saying they don't want tax payer money going to supporting capital murder convicts...it costs Florida $51M a year *more* to kill people than it does keep them alive in prison.

Assuming the DA goes for the DP, then a guilty verdict, it's still up to the judge to make the call about whether to give him the DP. It's entirely possible that if the kid pleas guilty, that they can dodge the dp.

I doubt seriously that anybody else with the gunman will be charged with capital murder.

If these are the guys,I hope all three of them get life in prison. The death penalty I think would be too easy on them. There are a lot of Redskin fans in jail now, locking them up would be a harsher punishment. ( I think )

Beep Beep

Jasno, stop it. JUST STOP! Stop trying to frame this story as another issue/miscommunication/etc between Taylor and the team. ENOUGH ALREADY! No one cares if Taylor didn't let the team know he was going to be down there, and your continued attempts to make that an issue this week are beyond the pale.

I just don't see why he continues do make this an issue.

I totally get why he's saying it. It's a fact...they didn't know. What's the big deal?

barno, go smoke some pot and calm down.