Thanks for the information stream, Jason. Just when I think, "I'll refresh it one more time, but it's late in the East, I'll bet there's nothing more tonight," there's more. (I'm a VA-native-now-West-coaster.)

It's touching to see the love for ST coming from all corners of the league.

So Sad. Andre Carter said that Sean will be with them on the field..he will be the "12th Man."

Someone needs to get a statement from Rosenhaus considering Frank Gore mentioned that Rosenhaus told him Sean was going to visit a doctor in Miami and no one else is aware of this. Did the girlfriend say anything about it?

"Andy Garcia: Taylor saved my niece's life"

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/breaking_dade/story/324186.html

Actor Andy Garcia hailed his niece's slain boyfriend, NFL star Sean Taylor, as a ''free safety until the end'' who showed bravery in the last moments of his life to protect his family.

"Andy Garcia: Taylor saved my niece's life"

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/breaking_dade/story/324186.html

Posted by: JustMe | November 28, 2007 11:32 PM

Thank you very much for that! How moving. Damn just when I thought I was going to make it to tomorrow with out crying again! Wow!

Man the more and more I read about how loved Sean was by everyone everywhere and the lives he touched...the fact that he in no way now seems to come from any kind of "Thug" background...really makes me want to see those insensitive opportunistic leaches Shapiro and Wilbon should be ashamed of themselves, and I would have no problem if they were both sacked....at the very least we should make a concerted effort not to read their articles ever.

Well the Skins can take a que from The Waterboy and imagine that all the Bills players are just journalists that did nothing but focus on the negative aspects of Sean's life on the very same day the man so many loved, died.

Tackling Fuel!

Man the more and more I read about how loved Sean was by everyone everywhere and the lives he touched...the fact that he in no way now seems to come from any kind of "Thug" background...really makes me want to see those insensitive opportunistic leaches Shapiro and Wilbon should be ashamed of themselves, and I would have no problem if they were both sacked....at the very least we should make a concerted effort not to read their articles ever.

Well the Skins can take a que from The Waterboy and imagine that all the Bills players are just journalists that did nothing but focus on the negative aspects of Sean's life on the very same day the man so many loved, died.

Tackling Fuel!

HTTR!

R.I.P. #21

oops sorry about that thought I caught the first one before it submitted...ha

Ok I gotta get some sleep too I guess...probably should consider eating more too.

See you all tomorrow I'm sure.

As a long time Skins fan in LA, there is a hollow feeling that I cannot shake. As Skins fans, we are use to the disappointment of having a player go down for an extended period of time with the hope that they will make it back before the season ends (such as Randy Thomas). Sometimes it is worse and we lose a Janson or Carlos Rogers for the year and we all feel a measure of disappointment or sadness knowing the player has suffered and the player is lost for the year. But, there is always next year. We gain some level of comfort knowning Janson and Rogers will be in training camp next summer wiith a fresh start. There is always a light at the end of the tunnel. But, this is like nothing the Redskins family has ever experienced. Sean is lost for the season and there is no next year. It is incomprehensible that there is no light at the end of the tunnel and no comfort can be found.

There is no description in the all to familiar injury report nonmenclature that fits here. Doubtful or questionable are meaningless. And, unfortunately, Sean's death gives new meaning to the term "out indefinitely."

We will feel this loss for many reasons. For many years we will think of Sean at certain points in games such as when TO goes unmolested across the middle of the field invisioning how Sean would have made a difference had God extended his life beyond 24 years

My heart goes out to the entire Redskins family and in particular to Sean's family. We should also be reminded how precious life is and remember that each time you think of the senseless and tragic dead of Sean Taylor (who you know will be watching on Sunday and next Thursday; let's just hope they get the NFL Network in heaven).

RPI Sean. You will always be missed and remembered fondly by those who truly knew you.

Im glad to see that some people are coming out with real stories about the man's character as opposed to the insensitive drivel that people like Wilbon and Shapiro wrote ON THE DAY THAT HE DIED. The Wilbon comments about him 'glamorizing and embracing' the thug lifestyle were unprofessional and sensationalistic. As a black man, it pained me to see that another black man who probably didn't know Taylor all that well (by all accounts, ST didn't talk to the media much) would help to perpetuate the stereotype of young black men as thugs. Of course, this gave license to Shapiro to write the same crap and quote Wilbon in his article. (...Look the black guy on our staff wrote it so I can write it without appearing racist...).
While ST may have made some missteps in his life, looking at the charges against him, he didn't aggregiously break laws as some media outlets would have you think. If someone had stolen my ATV when I was 22 and I thought they may be armed, I'd have probably gone to get them back, too....with my own weapon. Was it smart, no. Was it understandable, yes. And yes, I've driven under the influence when I was young and stupid. People talk about him skipping the rookie symposium as if he was the only guy to ever do that. Writers have written about transgressions on the field like late hits and spitting in Pittman's face as if that has anything to do with his off the field character. That has to do with his intensity on the field but doesn't paint a picture of the guy as a person. Even if it does, it was a couple years ago and people grown and mature. I even read a denigrating comment from someone who said " what kind of guy has a machete in his bedroom?". Well, the kind of guy who is obeying the court order not to have a gun in his bedroom. That's who ! I'm not claiming that he was a saint but he certainly was no Tank or Pac Man or Vick.

I truly believe that this was a targeted killing because burglars don't search for people in the house, shoot them, then run away. The police in FL are probably just trying to get someone to offer info by playing stupid and saying publicly that it was just a random burglary.
Regardless of the situation, when an unarmed man is shot IN HIS HOUSE by assailant(s) while with his woman and child, it is no time to start characterizing him as a 'lost soul who had met his inevitable end'. Sean Taylor was assassinated twice. Killers in Miami took his life and now some media outlets are trying to kill his character.
Shame on you, Wilbon. Take a deep long look in the mirror and ask yourself who the victim really was. In my opinion, your comments have victimized not only ST but the entire young black male community as well. Shame on you.

the fact that he in no way now seems to come from any kind of "Thug" background...really makes me want to see those insensitive opportunistic leaches Shapiro and Wilbon should be ashamed of themselves, and I would have no problem if they were both sacked....at the very least we should make a concerted effort not to read their articles ever.

Posted by: rbfett | November 29, 2007 12:08 AM

rbfett--

Don't try to make Sean into a choir boy. He wasn't. I think that his "thug background" relates to things like waving a gun in a man's face. Even his parents and family admitted in the Post yesterday that he had a bad period in his life, and they merely argue over whether was the father's fault or the mother's. The father's side of the family says: "The problem came when Taylor spent time with his mother, Donna Junor, in a less desirable area near Homestead. It was those acquaintances who pulled him down."

I'm not speaking about Shapiro, but if there's a case against Wilbon it is that in Monday's chat he didn't give credit for Sean changing himself. In Wednesday's column, he did, sort of.

I'm not sure how you make "a concerted effort not to read his articles ever." This isn't like giving up chocolate or beer. You just read something else. For my own part, I think there's a lot of anti-Wilbon hysteria on this blog. He hasn't said anything that Sean's friends, like Antrel Rolle, haven't said. He just said it sooner.

TA, not sure I'm following you.

Can you tell me what Wilbon said, that Rolle echoed?

Talent_Evaluator, wasn't the 'waving a gun in a man's face' just an accusation ? Based on my recollection, he had to speak at 10 schools as part of a deal that was cut. If there was proof that he'd actually committed this crime, wouldn't he have received a harsher penalty? Sounds to me like a plea agreement was reached because the prosecutor had no evidence.
Again, no one is saying that he didn't make some mistakes IN HIS PAST. I just think that on the day that the guy died, there's no way you should bring up things that happened 2 years ago. If there were recent transgressions, I'd be upset about it but it would be a bit more palatable but there's a huge maturity difference between a 22 year old single guy and a 24 year old with a child.
The timing was bad for that kind of article, the comments were speculative ("his death was inevitable") and it was in poor taste. I'm not mad at Shapiro...I expect that from an old school 50's reporter. My issue is with Wilbon. He DID soften his comments the next day. That alone leads me to think that he realizes that he made a mistake. I just wish he'd publicly acknowledge it and apologize to ST and all young black males out there that he offended.

Jason, thanks for the work once again. Can we get a simple link - it's like the insider has been buried.

Greg,

Wilbon said he wasn't surprised to hear that Sean had been shot. Sean Taylor had come from a bad background, had hung with some bad guys, and that it's tough to get away from that. Just because Sean wanted to change, it didn't mean that the others wanted to change with him.

What Antrel Rolle said was "There was so much surrounding him. Everyone was talking about him bad, so he just had to distance himself from everyone and live a life of his own."

Withdrawing from a bad crowd isn't easy, though, Rolle said.

"They say it was a burglary. It absolutely was not a burglary," he said. "Down South, where we're from, there were many people talking to Sean, a lot of jealousy, a lot of angry people.

Now, maybe I paraphrase Wilbon carelessly, but to me, it sounds like they're saying the same things.

Everyone please, have you not yet become accustom to the fact that talent_evaluator is an idiot? You have to take everything he says for what it's worth, NOTHING.

TA, thanks for explaining your position, I appreciate it. I still stand by my contention that Wilbon was out of line for what he said in the chat. Rolle could say what he said, because he had a relationship with Sean. Wilbon said what he said, and then from what I've heard, has somewhat backed off those comments.

Matters not, I suppose....Reading what Rolle did say, just makes me sick to my stomach..

freedom0125,

As to what Taylor did, I don't think he denied waving a gun in a man's face. According to yesterday's Post, "It ultimately led to him facing a felony charge of aggravated assault and a misdemeanor count of battery, which were bargained down to 18 months of probation after a lengthy legal fight that nearly resulted in him spending at least three years in prison."

I didn't read Wilbon's column as offensive to all young black males. But I'm not a young black male, so what do I know? On the other hand, are you sure that you represent the views of ALL young black males? If he did offend all, don't you think that the offense was unintended and that maybe you should cut the guy some slack?

JLC, Cindy, thanks for all your hard work this week. I was wondering if there will be another live chat with Jasno at 1 today like there is on a normal Thursday? I know there was already one one Tuesday and everyone will be extremely busy today but I was just curious. Thanks!

After rereading the columns, It's Shapiro who made the most inflammatory remarks...

"Still, could anyone honestly say they never saw this coming? You'd have to be blind not to consider Taylor's checkered past. It was only a few months after he was drafted, when we got something of an inkling of what sort of young man the Redskins were selecting out of the University of Miami with the fifth overall selection in 2004."..."On the field, Taylor often was a thoroughly undisciplined player who loved to make bold statements with vicious and often dangerous hits that occasionally got him tossed from games. Clearly, he seemed to embrace the thug image on and off the field"

Wilbon's article seemed to act as a catalyst for Shapiro and that's why I'm disappointed in Wilbon. Shapiro also attributes this quote to Wilbon...

"I know how I feel about Taylor, and this latest news isn't surprising in the least, not to me. Whether this incident is or isn't random, Taylor grew up in a violent world, embraced it, claimed it, loved to run in it and refused to divorce himself from it. He ain't the first and won't be the last. We have no idea what happened, or if what we know now will be revised later. It's sad, yes, but hardly surprising."

They're both to blame as far as I'm concerned and should be held accountable at least by us for their callous careless remarks. Is my opinion tainted by my love for the Skins ans ST? Absolutely. But am I justified in feeling disrespected by a fellow black man for comments that possibly mischaracterize ST (and other young black men by proxy)? I think so. I'm also the son of a police officer. I've never beaten my spouse, sold or used drugs, stolen, cheated, etc. ST has never been accused of any of them either. Based on the accounts of one local reporter, ST even stopped hanging out after his DUI incident.
I think the real reason that some people are taking shots at him is because he refused to cooperate with the media and grant interviews. As payback, they're painting a picture of him that is unflattering. One last comment: I had a coworker who's from England and knows nothing about football make a comment about ST based on what he had read. "That guy was a real piece of work. He had it coming".
Journalists should have an obligation to paint a FAIR picture of a guy based on fact. I understand that editorials offer people the opportunity to offer their own opinions but I disagree with how they went about doing their jobs. Shapiro...I expect that from you. Wilbon...you disappointed me.

free, my problem with the Shapiro piece, was the following, which just is not true:

"On the field, Taylor often was a thoroughly undisciplined player who loved to make bold statements with vicious and often dangerous hits that occasionally got him tossed from games"

When, when did this happen Len?? Liar.

I feel bad for Shapiro, when you can't see/accept that others can change that only says one thing. That you yourself are incapable of change. I hope Shapiro never falls from his high horse, from the sound of it its pretty far up there.

Guys, I hope we can take this tragedy beyond Sean Taylor. Too many black males are get murdered in the streets across America.

I am usually 50-50 with Marc Fisher. This time, he has hit it head on with a specific example of only 1 block in SouthEast DC - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/28/AR2007112802499.html

This is what Wilbon should be doing instead of saying, 'this is what we come to expect.' Why should we expect this? Is one person's life lessor than another's? No.

I ask you guys to read this. I want to start to go to schools (Middle, High School, and maybe even some area colleges) and tell talk to them. Connect with them. And even if you guys want (like I do) do even more to be a mentor to them.

If you live in the DC area and want to try to do the same, hit me @ rightwaytax@hotmail.com .

Thanks,

4thFloor

Talent_evaluator, I don't claim to represent all young black males (and BTW, i respect your opinion as well as any others) but I just feel as though Wilbon should not perpetuate a stereotype... Particularly when all evidence points to the fact that ST was doing all of the right things for at least the last couple years or so.
If a Jewish person was caught embezzling money, I'd feel like a Jewish reporter should be severely admonished for suggesting that it could have been foreseen because Jewish people like money. It's a stereotype and it's just not right.
My analogy might not be on target but I hope you get my point. Wilbon's comments were, in my opinion, black on black crime. They hurt more than he realizes.

To recap:

Wilbon Chat: Highly inappropriate, ill timed and wrong format. A chat is like a conversation, how many of us talk out our azz in convo that we might not say while crafting a piece of writing? While ST laid in hospital bed he should have said he was angry, hoped he got better and said he was working on a column that would discuss his take.

Shapiro piece: Bad journalism, bad reporting, wrong facts, poorly framed, sloppy narrative. Lazy. Worst thing WaPo published on the topic, bar none.

NOTE: Shapiro quoted Wilbon's chat comments not his column.

Wilbon's Video with Tony K and Cindy: Here, where he is talking and you can see body language etc he begins to modify and expand his thoughts. Much more nuanced and thoughtful. Also Tonk K talks elequently about the cynisism of the job.

Wilbon's column: To me, this was a thoughtful and provoking piece that was appropriate. Their are universal issues here that this story represents, to view it in isolation is to diminish and marganilize the legacy of ST. If this had been Wilbon's first "statement" on topic, it would have been much better.

Freedom,
Your analogy is not correct because it was not simply the color of ST's skin that led Wilbon to the conclusion that he had a thugish past, it was his thugish past actions.

I am frustrated with this anti-Wilbon sentiment. I know people are upset and angry about the whole situation and are unleashing on Wilbon, but we should be directing our anger at the same thing that Wilbon is directing it to and that is the young black male society in this culture that perpetuates this violence, and for any black males that don't realize what Wilbon is trying to do... WAKE THE F UP.

Too many young, talented, beatiful, daddy, son, husband black males are dying for no reason. We need to use the ST incidents as a wake up call. To point out ST's past is a lesson to all. Wilbon, in the face of redskins fan hysteria, was man enough to step up and say it. He didn't degrade Sean, he never accused Sean of not changing his life, he simply said that IF this was not an isolated burglary attempt, than you have to realize that Sean's past actions had something to do with it.

We need to let Sean legacy be to end this rediculous gun violence and straighten up our young black youth so that they can be honored and respected like they shoud be.

CL, nice summation, and I agree completely, however, Wilbon needs to understand that he has a greater responsibility, than to simply talk out his butt.

Jason Whitlock has a good piece in Fox Sports today as well.

Taylor never admitted to waving a gun in someone's face, in fact that charge was dropped due and the person who brought the charge was fired. See below in case you missed Rich Sharpsteins chat yesterday.

Richard Sharpstein: My wife and I represented Sean in that case. He never, never, never brandished a gun. That was a lie told by individuals who had stolen his ATV's. Sean and his friends did confront the thieves and Sean got into a short fist fight with the man perpetrator, Ryan Hill, a 6 foot 7- 280 pound former high school football player. Sean and his friends then retreated to his friend's house where the ATV's had been stolen from. Within minutes of their return the house and Sean's SUV were peppered with automatic gunfire. Neighbors called the police. However, Ryan Hill called 911 at the same time and reported that Sean Taylor had pointed a gun at him. This diversion by Hill was a lie.
Unfortunately a prosecutor was completely self-consumed in his prosecution of Sean Taylor as a ticket to stardom. Sean came to us six months after he had been charged. My wife and I turned the case around, finding incredible long criminal records of Ryan Hill and all the other witnesses. Eventually we proved that the prosecutor was using the case for his own personal gain. Unbelievably he had a Web site advertising himself as a disc jockey which was pornographic and lewd. Of more relevance was the fact that he had a link to "his media coverage" and it involved the Sean Taylor case and nothing more.
We downloaded the Webs site, my wife put it in a brilliant motion and we unloaded it on the media, the court and the prosecutor's office.
By 2:00 that afternoon Mike Grieco, the prosecutor, was fired. When a newly assigned veteran prosecutor looked at the case he agreed with us that this case never should have been filed.
In order to end the case before Sean had to report to the Redskins summer camp, we agreed to allow him to plead no contest without being adjudicated to simple battery. He received a non-reporting probation. The case was dismissed after Sean agreed to and did speak to 10 high schools and middle schools about his own life to provide inspiration for others.

Good info brian, its funny how we do more research than the reporters on this before we post on a blog, the reporters dont do any research and get to print in a major newspaper.

I don't understand why all these reporters can't leave his past alone. It doesn't matter now, and it didn't matter a month ago and so on. He was and had turned his life around. Why can't everyone just remember him, as a role model, great football player, and a loving devoted father.

jessie31202--

The reason people are bringing up his past is because many that the reason he was murdered has to do with a lifestyle which he only abandoned recently. Antrel Rolle, Sean's attorney, Michael Wibon all think he was murdered by people who wanted to get even with Sean for something. Why do you think he was murdered?

jessie,

Because it is not the reporters job to write the eulogy. Why can't YOU understand the role that reporters are put in in this situation, and value Wilbon's comments for our male youth and the trajedy that too many are needlessly dying. Wilbon is simply trying to do his part to bring light to the situation. Leave the heart felt comments to friends, family etc.

Wow..check out the crap being posted in Miami Herald in response to Garcia release..you'd almost think his girlfriend set him up !!!!!

For those of you who haven't read Whitlock's comments, here they are. Great article...IMO.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7499442?MSNHPHCP>1=10637

Unfortunately when your past consists of pleading no contest to a battery charge related to a FIST FIGHT and having a bogus DUI charge dropped when you are a young professional athlete who graduated from the University of Miami it is assumed that you are some tied into the thug life.

I went to school at Miami and can name a few friends that were arrested for both DUI and for being involved in fist fights who if god forbid were murdered would not have their past dredged up like this. It is easier for people to explain this tragedy by assuming that Sean Taylor was somehow responsible for his own death because if this truly was a random act and there is no explanation as to why it becomes all the more tragic and hard to cope with.

I wonder if the shooter didn't mean to kill Sean Taylor, but rather wanted to end his football career? I would think if this was an assasination, Sean would have been shot point blank in the head or shot in the chest. Instead he was shot in the leg and tragically his artery was severed. Once this is all over, I'm sure it will be connected to the guy that Sean pistol whipped over the stolen ATV's.

I'm assuming everyone here has heard about Andy Garcia stepping to the plate for Sean, that was exactly what i needed. after all the bs being poured in from bspn this makes me feel a little better, he shows Sean as the hero he is.

Brian,

Both Sean's family and his good friend, Antrel Rolle, acknowledge that his past was more than a fistfight and a DUI charge. Most of his friends and teammates have commented on how much Sean has changed since his baby was born. What is it, exactly, that you think he's changed from?

His friend Rolle, his attorney, Michael Wilbon all believe that he was a target. And you think they're doing this to "minimize the tragedy"? It doesn't make sense to me.

In the end, the police will solve the case and we will know whether it was random or deliberate. I think people like Wilbon have been suitably cautious in writing "it wouldn't surprise me..."

Talent..., I too believe that he was a target. I just don't think that he was on a inevitable path to destruction.
If that's the case, any rehabbed drug addict,alcoholic or criminal could be characterized the same way. And I'm not equating ST with addicts or criminals at all. I'm just saying...he made some mistakes and they shouldn't be dredged up and presented as a precursor to an unavoidable eventuality.

I'm thinking of bringing a sign to the game for SeanTay, something about him being a hero, any suggestions?

TE, I'm still in the boat that wilbon was ill-timed. He's not an idiot, but it was something that could have waited. I guess I just expected something more from Wilbon as I usually respect his opinion.

Dan, retire #21 immediately for as long as you are the owner. Also, put him in the Ring of Honor. Don't wait until the outcome of the investigation because then it'll seem like you don't trust in ST's innocence in this whole thing. Besides Nelms, ST is the best #21 I can remember. It should not be a big deal.

Re: Jason Whitlock article on Taylor's Death

I am not 'surprised' Instead of downing a group of people; why not try to do your part in changing the culture you speak of? His view is brushed with too broad of a stroke. We need to try to start viewing these issues one murder at a time and not all murders at once. Who's with me?

F complaining and become a doer..........

4thFloor

TA, give Dan Labatard's article a read in today's Miami Herald. Just presents a different perspective.

Scott..
My point was that although he had a rather bad past, make the point and move on. There is a time and place for everything. There are some reporters out there saying that he pretty much deserved it. What if he was killed in a car accident would they still be talking like this, NO they wouldn't. All I am saying is that the lack of respect is astounding. I know that reporters have a job to do, however the ones dwelling on his bad past, haven't said too much about how he was trying to turn it around.

I wonder if the shooter didn't mean to kill Sean Taylor, but rather wanted to end his football career? I would think if this was an assasination, Sean would have been shot point blank in the head or shot in the chest. Instead he was shot in the leg and tragically his artery was severed. Once this is all over, I'm sure it will be connected to the guy that Sean pistol whipped over the stolen ATV's.

Posted by: jimwell | November 29, 2007 10:21 AM

Good point jim. That makes a lot of sense. I think you are right.

There are some reporters out there saying that he pretty much deserved it.

Posted by: jessie31202 | November 29, 2007 10:40 AM

Can you link us to a story that said this?

I wish I could there were some links on previous post by JLC. I don't have too much internet acess at work. If you like you can look through those post and find the link.

I wonder if the shooter didn't mean to kill Sean Taylor, but rather wanted to end his football career?

Posted by: jimwell | November 29, 2007 10:21 AM

jimwell--I had a similar thought, although when they said he was shot in the groin I was thinking maybe it wasn't his leg that they meant to shoot.

Ugh,

These conversations both here and in the press are starting to become so he said/she said...my way or the highway...the world is THIS way....that is really the culprit in finding solutions and new understandings to almost every problem facing the collective, political, societal "us"

Please start seeing the nuance, the grey areas the humanity in all of this...its not "this writer is an idiot"..."fire this guy"...."Hip hop killed the dinosaurs"..."the press sucks"..."If you have a record you deserve it"..."He was a dad, leave him alone"....

Quadruple ugh....this country needs more thinking, more voices, more education, more lisrtening, more nuance, more details, less opinion as rock hard belief....

Lowest Common Denominator...wins again!

chrislarry articulately wins the day. I'm going to stop posting until the Gibbs-bashing starts again. Probably around half-time on Sunday.

greg--Thanks for citing the LeBatard story. Here's a link for others:

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/columnists/dan_le_batard//story/324931.html

It is a different perspective because he's attuned to the Miami-bashing (the city and the U) which I haven't even noticed sitting in DC.

TE -

No where did I say I doubted this was a deliberate shooting but I also don't believe that it was the result of Taylor leading the "Thug Life". If you are relying on his family and friend's comments about him changing than you must also must rely on their comments that he had never embraced the "thug" mentality. They say he had changed, he had matured it's only natural everyone does it. They didn't say he went from being a thug to not being a thug.

It is my opinion that this is most likely related to the fight he got in several year back over the ATV's where he embarrassed someone who is a thug and someone who was determined to get revenge. The fact that Sean got in a fight with this person because he stole his ATV's does not mean Sean himself was a thug I bet you many of you would do the same thing if you thought you could get your stuff back by confronting whomever took it.

In the current world that we live in people get shot for clothing and agressive driving it really doesn't take much. Had Taylor be murder in one of those circumstances rather than him being shot in his home the same stories about his past would've surfaced and some people still would argue that his thuggish past somehow contributed.

My main point is that I don't think the the past points to Sean Taylor being your typical thug as many of the media stories would like you to believe. I beleive he was your typical immature 21 year old who got into a fight with the wrong person and it cost him his life.

Got this in my email today - click on the video (so you can actually see Gibbs talking). This was a few days before the Bucs game and the passing of Sean Taylor. May you be encouraged as I was, and know how blessed the Redskins are to have Joe as their coach.

http://www.joegibbsonline.com/onthefly.php?item=195

On the peeps who don't like the media reports that include The Reaper's troubled recent past ... you can't tell his story of modern redemption unless telling the story of what he was redeeming himself from.

Sean Taylor's short NFL career is a story of a hero and modern day redemption. The Portis quote that gets repeated alot, the one about how you can't expect a man to grow up overnight, is an important one. Whether Sean Taylor once made the life choices of a 'thug' matters b/c its only by having made those (wrong) choices, recognizing his real talents/purpose/blessing, and changing those choices, that he redeemed himself ... and becomes a model for others to make those better choices.

This has been a bad week. Nothing good can have come from this, other than Sean Taylor's personal redemption.

[Even Chuck Norris is sad about this ... and deep down, a few punters have one less worry ....]

Awesome article...

http://www.miamiherald.com/1246/story/324931.html

Hero?

Basis of heroism, apparently:

1. Good player.
2. Hasn't gotten in trouble since his child was born.
3. Died.

I think the bar for "hero" should be set a little higher than that, don't you?

manupstairs, I do think a hero is someone who dies protecting his own family, regardless of his past.

also, it's a shame you really don't exist because i'd love to knock your block off.

For those of you who haven't read Whitlock's comments, here they are. Great article...IMO.

1=10637">http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/7499442?MSNHPHCP>1=10637

Posted by: Glass_Half_Full | November 29, 2007 10:10 AM

-------------------------------------------
I read the article mentioned above. First, I will say that I am not black, and I don't even pretend to understand what it is like to be black in America in 2007. The writer of the article is black, and he had a lot to say about black-on-black violence in this country, but his mention of Sean in the article felt like he was trying to use Sean's death to bolster his argument, and it didn't quite fit. He also conveniently glossed over the changes Sean had made in his life, both personally and professionally:

"No disrespect to Taylor, but he controlled the way he would be remembered by the way he lived. His immature, undisciplined behavior with his employer, his run-ins with law enforcement, which included allegedly threatening a man with a loaded gun, and the fact a vehicle he owned was once sprayed with bullets are all pertinent details when you've been murdered."

Yes, Sean had some discipline issues when he started his tenure with the Redskins, but his coaches have said time and time again that he was doing much better this year, that he was spending time studying the game and listening to what his coaches told him to do. That doesn't sound undisciplined to me. And the bit about "brandishing a loaded gun" has been clarified by Sean's lawyer, Richard Sharpstein, as an outright lie made by a man with a long criminal record. Lastly, yes, his car was sprayed with bullets in connection to the ATV incident, but I'm willing to bet that there are plenty of innocent people, both in Miami and DC, whose cars have been sprayed with bullets. Having your car turned into Swiss cheese by gunfire doesn't make you an unsavory character. It just felt like Whitlock was grasping at straws by trying to use Sean's case as an example for why his opinions are correct.

Always good to hear from the internet tough guys, Poopy. Don't pull a muscle banging on your keyboard, and make sure the Cheetos crumbs don't block the space bar.

World's full of heroes. Describing ST that way demeans the word.

Just read the Dan LeBatard Article. I am glad that some people in the media does have a conscious and says what I have been thinking.

We can't wait a day and we are talking about salary cap implications. That is flat out wrong (JLaC, Cindy, Sports Editors, 980, and Pastabelly) to put that out the same day he dies. We are talking about respect and talking about Salary Cap or he deserved it in the 1st day of death (and in Wilbon's case - before he even died) is crazy.

Kornheiser I think did it very well also, talking about all the cynicism that he isn't thinking about it like the rest of us folks. Wilbon and Whitlock need to do the same.......

4thFloor

Fox News, for what its worth.

Police have no new suspects, and believe it was a botched robbery attempt.

Do with this what you will....

OK...so here is my disclaimer....

I WILL MISS SEAN, DEARLY !!! Sean made an attempt to turn his life around. By ALL accounts, this was becoming a great story of overcoming your past.....HOWEVER....

You cannot deny what happened in Sean's past. I 'm in no way saying he deserved this, or he got what coming to him. But, to suggest that he was an angel from day one would be false. Let's role play for one minute....

IF your daughter brought home a guy who in the past 3 years has been involved in ...

* DUI charge.
* Went to recover his ATV's by going after the guys with gun's.
* Was fined numerous times by his job for breaking the rules.
* Knew the rules at his job, and still broke them.
* Refused to call his boss back for a few months.
* Used to run with a bad group of people.

Would you be comfortable with her going out with him?? Even if all charges were bogus?? NOT to say that a man can't change. NOT to say Sean was still rolling with a bad group of people. HOWEVER, facts are facts.

If and when Ted Kennedy passes, she we not bring up Chapaquittic ( awful spelling sorry!). If and when Bill Clinton passes, should reporters NOT bring up his impeachment issue? What about Michael Irvin?? As Redskins fans, would we look at an obituary with cross eyes if it DID NOT contain all of his off field issues??

Should the fact that I was married and divorced, NOT be included in my obituary? ( I wish it wasn't, but I digress!! )

Has there been media bias exhibited this week in the reporting of the shooting and death of Sean Taylor? Has there been "piling on" by national media organizations who are too lazy to do the real work necessary for good reporting? Have the "talking heads" all been just a little too lazy in putting this horrible situation into some neat little box to make themselves sound more studied, more "inside", more wise?

It's difficult not to have an opinion one way or another, and it appears most people do. Me? I'm not so sure about anything, other than that Sean Taylor is dead for no good reason.

What I wonder about is this: if all the facts of the case (as we know them) remained exactly the same, and the victim of the shooting early Monday morning in Miami had been Jeremy Shockey of the the New York Giants (instead of Sean Taylor), would the media coverage have been exactly the same?

Personally, I doubt it.

A lot of you guys make great points. The social impact of Sean's death is in a grey area as a previous poster noted. These are not easy cut and dry questions or answers. There will be an infinate amount of time to debate Sean Taylor the man (was he a thug?, is he a hero?, what does his life and death say about our society?, why is this such a problem with African American youth, and what is the solution?, etc). At the beginning of the week I was not looking foward to the game on Sunday at all, but now I am starting to get really excited. Those 3 hours will be for honoring Sean Taylor the football player. The safety that all of us fans enjoyed watching and the teammate that all the guys loved playing football with. Those are two facts that we can pretty much all agree on. Win, lose, or draw as long as the Skins play their hardest, they will be honoring Sean.

Tafka:

Not sure of your point re: Shockey. Is it your point that the media would have been more sympathetic if a white guy had been shot and killed? To the best of my knowledge, while Shockey is clearly a clown in many ways, he didn't have ANY of ST's off-field incidents. I'm not sure spinning the ball after a first down is equivalent to gun-related incidents.

Gee tallent so glad I defended you a few articles back when someone was using all caps to yell at you for that Denver draft pick comment.

The point about Wilbon that you don't seem to be getting is the timing for one. And the fact that pretty much all Wilbon writes about and talks about is the status of the black athelet in America. He often paints with quite broad strokes, and never seems to analyse each story on a case by case basis.

Many people see this world in black and white because it much easier that way, but that's just not how it is. We are surrounded by shades of gray in every aspect of life. And I have little respect for people that call themselves journalists but simply manipulate tragic events (very poorly timed in both Wilbon and Shapiro's case) either for their own gain, or as support for their precieved agenda. To me Wilbon's agenda has been to become a mouthpiece or leader for improving the black community. Nothing at all wrong with that (besides the fact that we could talk all day about how qualified Wilbon is to try to take such a role..but that's for another day).

My main point with Wilbon...and this certainly applies to others that focused so much on the negative right away, was the lack of decorum and sensitivity with their very poor timing.

Now a few days removed...say what ever you will...that stuff does need to be talked about. Especially if you feel it's important to society and you really think you can make a change...more power to you! We should all be so concerned about a whole community that we devote our lives to changing the horrors that exist. Just in the future use some class and think about timing the comments a bit better.

Shapiro on the other hand...well pretty much a worthless waste of air if you ask me...but I though that before this week...ha

cej75024 - You are playing into the media's hands. Who said he was angel?? No one did. Everyone who wasn't in the media and knew him said he changed for the better in the past 18 months. His daughter is 18 months old. He has changed for the better.

You are missing the point! If I knew my daughter was dating someone who was trying to change or is in the process of changing, why should I hate on him?? Tell me.

Our job does not compare to a football player's job. Shawn Springs told Gibbs he wasn't going to Mandatory Mini-Camps. Let me repeat that, he told his boss he ain't coming to work. But no one says anything about that. Taylor was trying to upgrade his contract. You do things like that as a football player.

4thFloor

It's difficult not to have an opinion one way or another, and it appears most people do. Me? I'm not so sure about anything, other than that Sean Taylor is dead for no good reason.

What I wonder about is this: if all the facts of the case (as we know them) remained exactly the same, and the victim of the shooting early Monday morning in Miami had been Jeremy Shockey of the the New York Giants (instead of Sean Taylor), would the media coverage have been exactly the same?

Personally, I doubt it.

Posted by: tafka | November 29, 2007 11:46 AM
I agree.

All we know is that he is dead. Nothing fits a nice neat story. Who did it? A Friend, random, profesional thieves nothing fits the facts. We just know it was not domestic.

The media can't distingush between events. Just some trouble maker 'chickens coming home to roost.' Some of our own guys help feed this so what do you expect.

I have really tried to say out of this and think more of the good things about Sean and what he has meant to me. However, this is really getting out of hand. Do you guys even know what a thug is? One incident doesn't make a person a thug. He had one incident and trust me I worked and been around thugs (some in my own family) and they have a long history. DUI doesn't make a person a thug. There is nothing in his past other than atv incident. I am a Muslim as your all know. However, it's funny to me hear (I am assuming here) all these so called Christian people talk as if God can't touch a person and change them."Through Me all things is possible". That's not from the Quran but from the bible. There is s section in the Quran that is called "The Lip Professors". Don't say you believe in God and His power but don't believe He can change a man.

What matters is that he's going to be missed by many, and that he will be remembered as a great player - and by all accounts from those who actually KNEW him - a very soft-spoken, respectful young man off the field.

What also matters is that he was shot in his own bedroom; he is the victim, not the perp.

The rest of it, his past (we all have pasts), is just a lot of background noise made by media talking heads and writers to fill air time/columns.

Rest in peace, Sean.

As to what Taylor did, I don't think he denied waving a gun in a man's face. According to yesterday's Post, "It ultimately led to him facing a felony charge of aggravated assault and a misdemeanor count of battery, which were bargained down to 18 months of probation after a lengthy legal fight that nearly resulted in him spending at least three years in prison."

Posted by: talent_evaluator | November 29, 2007 08:48 AM

Actually TA Sean's former lawyer said Sean never actually had a gun, and the brandishing the weapon part was just the accusation..was never proved, but Sean/his lawyer admitted he did have an altercation. These same people later came and shot up his truck which and Sean was not able to press charges. This is all according to now a few different over the phone interviews I heard watching Comcast Sportsnet. So as far as I can tell according to the law and what's on the books. Sean never actually had a weapon. Which doesn't really explain why then he was not allowed to have a gun of his own in his house, and not even sure if that was actually the case. The point being none of us really know what happened that day. he may have had a gun he may not have had a gun...and we have no idea the events that let up to that.

One thing we all should have learned over the past few days (you really should have known this already) just because a guy on the TV or a reporter in a newspaper says it...doesn't mean that's the truth.

The difference between what Rolle and Wilbon is saying may be subtile to many but it's quite different I believe.

Wilbon was saying that because he was a black kid that grew up in a rough situation once you get to the NFL you have to get away from all of that...move on and separate yourself from your old friends and acquaintances that are bad influences on you...and really just interested in you for your wealth at that point probably anyway. Perfect...absolutely right...can not argue with that. Another pretty smart guy that has come a long way with his life that I actually really respect now (used to friggen hate the guy) Deion Sanders. He knows, he understands how hard it is to get away from your younger life and them move into all that fame and stardom. He understands that some guys no matter how hard they try can not get away from those people in their past. Sometimes those friends and acquaintances feel that you owe them in some way maybe for helping them reach stardom...maybe because of some code or oath they created when younger "When one of us makes it, we take the rest with us". Then they get to the NFL and everyone is telling them to drop their old lives don't look back. Many try and manage a fairly clean break and can move on...other's have bonds sometimes that are too tight...and those people will just not leave them no matter what they do.

This is more what Rolle was talking about. I think he was saying possibly a combo of...some of his friends were bitter that he didn't take them along...or even more general...that a larger group of acquaintances were jealous and bitter that Sean made it and they did not. And that lots of people down there knew who Sean was maybe thought they were closer to Sean than they were. Also could mean that Sean didn't really know this person, people at all...just that they lived close to them grew up around him...were jealous..were...Who the hell really knows?!

Either way Wilbon has no place...and Rolle does. Simple as that. If you don't get it sorry.

Miami and the surrounding area is a damn rough place. We all wish Sean had just dropped everything and moved up here..maybe...maybe he would have been safer. But his whole life was down there...family friends...that was where he was born and grew up. No one is asking you to move away from all your family and friends and your whole life...so you don't really know.

Just remember no aspect of life is ever as black and white as you seem to want to make it.

Why would we expect the media to get it right? When do they ever? There is always a slant or a spin to everything. Politics, sports, entertainment, you name it. Bias comes into play, because these stories are written by people with biases and prejudices.
There have been many days on this blog where there are more posts complaining about jlc than talking football.
The media (especially tv) collectively having their heads up their a**es is nothing new.
Jason should be commended for his work and presentation of this sad, sad story.

... World's full of heroes. Describing ST that way demeans the word.

Posted by: TheManUpstairs | November 29, 2007 11:30 AM

Sure, I'll say he's was a hero. A hero is a role model ... someone people can admire, about whom someone would want to model his/her behavior. Given that you only rate him as a "good player" (it doesn't surprise me that God disparages the Skins too), and don't accept that Sean Taylor was leading the NFL in interceptions this year, that he was recognized by SI as the hardest hitter in currently in the NFL, that he made leading receivers hear footsteps, that his career trajectory was approaching vertical, I understand that you would not admire his play. I'm guessing that you have led a righteous life, have never made bad choices, live in a glass house, and have a stone by the ready to be the first to cast.

Not everyone is like you. My original point is that his recent choices make him worthy of those people's admiration, and a hero.

dcsween:

I've made plenty of bad choices. I also think I've lived a decent life, by and large. Not mutually exclusive concepts.

And I'm no hero. Not even close. It's no rap on ST to say that "hero" is a bit strong.

Near as I can tell, your point is that he's a hero because:

1. He was a great player. Well, for the last year or so, he was great. He certainly wasn't great before that.

2. He turned his life around since his daughter was born. Probably true.

If that's your standard for hero, it seems a bit low.

If that's your standard for hero, it seems a bit low.

Posted by: TheManUpstairs | November 29, 2007 03:47 PM

One of the really nice things about this world is the ability of each to see that world through one's own eyes. We don't require the rules of someone else to make our own judgements and decisions. Instead, we get to decide on our own.

You don't think someone is a hero? That's fine - it's your personal decision. But you only get to decide for yourself - you don't get to decide for anyone else.

ManUpstairs, I'd be interested in knowing, do you think there are any heroes out in the public sphere nowadays? Any that play football? [Or do you think the age of heroes is a thing of the past?]

fwiw, I think London Fletcher is a hero.