First?

first

eddie sucks and so will the Rams

i hope they land in the same place and come back and kick Danny boy's tail!!

They didn't have Al Saunders system down...and now they all get to learn a new system - what a joke this team is. Dan Snyder is quite possibly the worst owner ever - other than Bidwell

Serious doubt if the deadskins would have made the playoffs or had a winnning record if it was not for the tragic death of Taylor.

Danny Boy only cares about one bottom line and it aint W's and L's but the return on his investment. And one only has to look at how his investments have done since his father passed away and he tossed aside his dad's trusted advisers. Not very well. He is a little rich boy who doesnt have his daddy's business acumne or intelligence.

Next coach of the deadskins first name will begin with a B as will his last name! He is the best head coaching candiddate out there.

I did not like Al that much but Williams did do some good stuff with our defense. Al was never right for the skins and we should have all seen this coming but with that said I wish both Al and Gregg the best wherever they end up. I hope Gregg has a top five D and Al puts up points with whatever offence he's running. I hope they put Danny boy to shame and I feel bad for the players who get screwed time and time again because we have an inept and confused owner. I feel for all of us fans for having to put up with the likes of Danny boy and his left hand Cerrato.

Next coach of the deadskins first name will begin with a B as will his last name! He is the best head coaching candiddate out there.

Posted by: dave2002ti | January 27, 2008 03:02 PM

i assume your talking about billick and i agree that he is the best candidate for this team. if he had been hired originally they could have kept all the coaches in place and he could have just replaced gibbs at the top. that would have been the best scenario for everyone. but there is no way that snyder and the vin could have worked with billick. he is notoriuous for being an egomaniac and hard to work with.

man i wish they would just name a coach so the ridiculous cowher/bilick/johson/george halas talk will cease....

I actually thought the offense might do a little better with Saunders having the full reigns, but we will never know.

So our owner discards two coordinators that are being sought after and brings in Zorn (no one else offered him an OC position) and wants to bring in Fassel who had one interview for an OC position this offseason and didn't get it.

I am happy that if Williams had to leave, that Blache is promoted, but what happens if all the other D coaches want to follow Williams and leave Blache and Snyder without the "continuity" that he said he wanted.

Even though I am a lifelong skins fan, I look forward to St. Louis coming to fedex field and kicking Dan Snyder's a$$! FU Snyder, you are a stupid f-ing moron!! Karma is hell brother! You are about to find out!

For the love of God Jla not football analysis. If last season showed one thing is you don't know football.

But keep hitting Snyder and the coaching updates.

Since the other coaches have contracts, can't the Skins block them from leaving? Of course, know idiot Snyder he will let them all walk away.

It's going to be a long dismal season - the players are already discouraged and have checked out.

Putting our crap offense on Al is bogus. I love Gibbs, but he couldn't get out of his own way when it came to the offense. If you want a power running offensive philosophy it doens't take alot of game film to realize that Al Saunders is probably not your man. But they brought him here and then never really let him develop his offense. Our best glimpse of Al's offense came in the last few games where Todd Collins was starting...aside from the Seattle game, it looked pretty good to me.

We're all pretty resigned to the fact that our beloved Skins will be mediocre until Snyder and Cerrato go away. But this latest blunder is perhaps more odious because all of the pieces (arguably) were in place to forge five years of a semblance of consistency. And, even more importantly, we're angry because Snyder appaerently lied to, hoodwinked, and bamboozled our icon, Joe Gibbs. Joe had many of us starting to believe that maybe, just maybe, we had something this time.

Instead, Snyder and Cerrato evidently could not wait until Joe was gone to destroy it all, humiliating two excellent coaches who will thrive elsewhere.

I'm extremely perplexed and maybe even devastated this go around. I love the team, but I won't knowingly give my time, passion, and money to anything Snyder does with the team.

This is the height of stupidity. Many players will surely follow Gregg as will some coaches, and the team will be 3-13 next year.

If I were a Redskin player, coach, trainer. . .you name it, I'd be long gone. This team owner thinks he owns the players and coaches as well.

This sounds like piling on from Jason.

Gibbs has his strengths and weaknesses, but one of his biggest strengths is developing QB's.
And I am so tired of this garbage of Saunders being held back by Gibbs. Consistent QB play and a healthy offensive line is what this team needed.

Jason - I truely believe that you should be replaced as the beat reporter for the Skins.

For the love of God Jla not football analysis. If last season showed one thing is you don't know football.

Au contraire,...mul. His morning after H-back column was very well done.

Sounds to me like Williams and Saunders are in a helluva lot more demand than Fassel... no one's talking to Fassel, except Snyder. Interesting, isn't it?

Even though I am a lifelong skins fan, I look forward to St. Louis coming to fedex field and kicking Dan Snyder's a$$! FU Snyder, you are a stupid f-ing moron!! Karma is hell brother! You are about to find out!

Posted by: jimwell | January 27, 2008 03:19 PM

when the rams come to fedex they will not be playing dan, theyll play the skins so if they kick anyones butt it will be the team, not the dan. way to root against your team "lifelong fan"

Danny's favorite author must be Mark Twain, who said "Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please."

The "blow me away" interview question that got Zorn hired was when he replied "deep post" in response to DS asking "What would you call on third and one vs. the Vikings?"

The "disrespecting Gibbs" interview question that got Gregg fired was when he answered "No" in response to DS asking: "Would you consider calling back-to-back timeouts to ice a kicker?"

Cabraman,

Have you considered that perhaps Gibbs put the wrong qb into Saunders's offence? Collins was the better qb in preseason and practice yet Gibb's ego gets involved and he sticks with Brunell way too long and then does not allow Collins to start until there was no other option.

For the love of God Jla not football analysis. If last season showed one thing is you don't know football.

Au contraire,...mul. His morning after H-back column was very well done.

Posted by: driley | January 27, 2008 03:24 PM

Yes he would see what happened then come up with an explination like "we did not run enough". The next week we would lose and "we did not pass enough." Then he had us going deep in the playoffs.

Well you know the truth.

as much as i hate it, we all have to realize that we are stuck with the little man for many years to come. all the talk of boycotting and rooting for other teams and any of the many other ways ive read on this board are useless. the dan has enough money to sustain any losses this team incurs, as well as the marketing genius to rebuild if a fan revolt were successful. he will own this team till he dies, and judging from recent events he will live to be 108 years old just to piss the rest of us off.

Even though I am a lifelong skins fan, I look forward to St. Louis coming to fedex field and kicking Dan Snyder's a$$! FU Snyder, you are a stupid f-ing moron!! Karma is hell brother! You are about to find out!

Posted by: jimwell | January 27, 2008 03:19 PM

when the rams come to fedex they will not be playing dan, theyll play the skins so if they kick anyones butt it will be the team, not the dan. way to root against your team "lifelong fan"

Posted by: matthewwmccarthy | January 27, 2008 03:24 PM

Do you remember when Charles Mann was cut by Norv Turner?? Charles Mann was signed late in the season by the San Francisco 49ers. When the 49ers came back to RFK stadium, Charles Mann got a sack. He received a standing ovation from the RFK crowd. Thats what I'm talking about with Gregg and Al possibly coming back with the Rams.

One of the Skins biggest problems last year IMHO (besides tragedy and injuries) was too many coaches. The HC (Gibbs), the Associate HCs (Saunders and Williams), the Assistant HCs (Bugel...)

Gibbs' ability to pick "character" guys was always among his stringest points, but having too many people in the chain of command was a mistake (oh, I guess I can never work for Dan now!).

Too bad we'll never get to see what the Skins would have looked like with a streamlined coaching staff and a "seasoned" Gregg Williams--with a little Hall of Fame Coach stink on him--at the helm!

I suspect we'll see him at the helm of another winning team in the near future, though.

If half of this post is true, the Gibbs ran a slack shop here. My goodness, what a mess he was.

Now all of those problems go away and are replaced with an updated collection.

I don't see JC as an optimal West Coast QB. He can hum it intermediate and deep very well.

Quick throws, touch passes, short crossing routes - Zorn really has his work cut out for him.

"...Instead, Snyder and Cerrato evidently could not wait until Joe was gone to destroy it all, humiliating two excellent coaches who will thrive elsewhere..."

Posted by: weldonhill | January 27, 2008 03:23 PM

Kind of like Godfather II when Michael Corelone waited until the Don died before wacking guys like his sister's husband.

For those of you who believe the big E network in Bristol, John Clayton just said that it will be Fassel when this thing is done that Fassel approved the coordinators hire/Blache promotion.

Which again begs the question, why are they waiting? Just cannot believe that anybody else would come here and take this gig, when they could do better under another owner/GM.

To rub salt in this deep wound is the fact Napolean and Cerrato are not going anywhere. Unless Snyder loses all his money, we are stuck with him. He's a young man - unlike Al Davis who is on his last legs. However, I would not be surprised if someone has not put a hit out on Snyder.

Mul,

I may be biased because I agreed with most of Jason's analysis. Are you that upset that we did not go "deep into the playoffs" that you blame it on Jasno? It sounds like there is a lot of anger directed at the bearer of the news instead of the real reasons that things did not work out.

jimwell

my point is that rooting against snyder is rooting against the skins. i felt the same way when that d-bag novak was the kicker. i could not root for that ashclown no matter what. but not rooting for him meant rooting against the skins, so i had to root for him to make that kick against dallas, the most anguishing moment of my life.

Alan4

No one was talking to Williams (except the Skins) and Saunders (except possibly the Raiders) about HC positions this year or last year. So what's your point? We all know that Williams and Saunders are very good coordinators.

Ok the PR guys are still around. Looks like the put something in the water over a Talent_evaluaters house too (from the last string).

We are not going to be middle of the road 'after' next year. Dan is calling the shots through Vinny (who is a good scout). That means it is ball coach time. It also means Dan can not learn and loves is ego more then the Skins.

What we can hope for is JC holds Dan hostage next year and tells him to get a real GM or he is gone. Also real fan pressure will help. Dan does have partners and they love money more then Dans ego for sure.

If you were a stud QB would you stay up in here?

nojunk4me, as I (and several others) have mentioned on here the last few days, Snyder is waiting for the fans to calm down (which ain't happening) to announce Fassel. When word got out earlier this week that Fassel was the anointed one, all hell broke loose.

Alan4

No one was talking to Williams (except the Skins) and Saunders (except possibly the Raiders) about HC positions this year or last year. So what's your point? We all know that Williams and Saunders are very good coordinators.

Posted by: mdvj | January 27, 2008 03:41 PM

but two years ago gg was so hot the skins had to make him the highest paid coordinator ever and put in a million buck bonus if he was not the next coach.

hey j la, you havent said anything about that bonus since this all went down. is he still owed an extra mill as part of his reneg. of two years ago or did 06's dismal performance void that out.

Imagine how Gibbs feels now quitting as Head Coach? I wonder if he feels at least partly responsible for the firings and upheaval now? Maybe this is Snyder's way of getting back at Gibbs for leaving? As petty and vindictive as that sounds, who's to say it's not true?

mdvj,
My point is, what is Fassel "very good" at? Why give up two "very good" coordinators in pursuit of someone who's been out of work for over a year, and was fired twice in the preceeding 3 years?

In light of everything that has happened inthe since week 10...This is just a great article...Let's hrow more crap on the pile and bash Gibbs too...Don't care to hear that!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mul,

I may be biased because I agreed with most of Jason's analysis. Are you that upset that we did not go "deep into the playoffs" that you blame it on Jasno? It sounds like there is a lot of anger directed at the bearer of the news instead of the real reasons that things did not work out.

Posted by: driley

No he said we might go deep in the playoffs with Todd at the helm. I am saying he is a typical Reporter blowing in the wind. He knows soccer but not football so cant take a will grounded position. The crap about JC is prof enough. He got better every 4-5 games. We had no O-line much of the year. If we did half the things fans and Jla wanted he would have been out week 7 not week 13.

Or to put in more "clearly" many fans and Jla wanted more of the play book. But JC could bearly handle what he had at any point in time. Makes no sense.

matthewwmccarthy, if I'm not mistaken, the million dollar thing was mentioned right after Gibbs retired and said to be a bogus rumor.

One thing is for certain, when football season begin, the "experts" will definitely have us on the "bottom" - as a losing, rebuilding team...and for once they will be correct :(

I actually believe that a boycott of Snyder will have a great deal of influence. If FedEx has 20,000 empty seats then it is a very telling signal that the fans are not supporting the owner. It will have an effect on his bottom line and more importantly it will humiliate him in a very public way. In the end it is Dan's ego that got us into this mess and so it is Dan's ego that must take the hit.

Laos Gibbs WAS the Head coach so he can dictate anything he wanted....so if Al was held back GOOD cause Gibbs was the man in charge

It really is perplexing that "Mr." Snyder is content waiting for Fassel. Does Fassel have radio or other media duties at the Super Bowl? Is "Mr." Snyder waiting for the fan reaction to die down? What gives?

There are a few things that came out of this process pretty clearly:

1. "Mr." Snyder did not want GG to be the head coach of the 'Skins. This could have been over in 10 days, instead it became a drawn out process.

2. "Mr." Snyder has absolutely no clue how to manage his image or work with the media. He lets his ego cloud his judgement and interfere with proper PR. When all is said and done, he complains that the media doesn't give him a fair shake. I really can't believe that someone with his business acumen and communications background has botched this process so completely.

3. "Mr." Snyder does listen to the fans. Our opinions have been heard. Whether he heeds them or not is largely irrelevant. He owns the team, he is going to make the decisions he feels are best for his business. But the vehicle for reaching him is pretty clear at this point. Gotta love the Internets.

One more thing: I understand the frustration fans have about wanting to quit the team. Right before St. Joe was hired and at the end of the Spurrier Era, I started turning my attention to the Chargers: close proximity to me, better weather, easier flights, etc. But quitting the burgundy and gold is darn near impossible...

first.. jasno is clearly not going to get the coaching job, because he disrespected Gibbs right there.

This is also a reminder that things were pretty f'd up even with Gibbs as coach. How much would that have changed with Williams?

Was Al Saunders Gibbs guy, or did Synder talk him into getting a new offensive coordinator (ok, ok, Associate Head Coach Offense) and then sour on Al when things inevitably didn't work out? It seems odd that Gibbs would pick Al then only keep him in check, but actively thwart him. I know Al was a Coryell guy, but he wasn't there with Gibbs (and Gibbs branched out significantly from when he was Coryell's OC becoming a run first guy anyway.)

ironically, in the end it seems that the problem probably wasn't Gibb's offense being out of date, but his quarterback (Brunell) being out of date (and not a great fit for the Gibb's style when even when he was young he was a short intermediate guy, and Gibbs always liked to pound the ball then go deep and needed a strong armed guy who was accurate on the deep stuff.)

It seems like there's a lot of behind the scenes stuff going on that isn't getting out (like the Kremlin--we'll have to wait until the Danny goes in a peaceful coup and the files are opened.)

Alan4

I agree that Fassel may not have been my first choice...and I think the way things played out, Snyder gave Williams first shot. That said given that Williams didn't impress in his interview for the HC position, what coach is out there? Gibbs put the team in a bind. Fassel has a resume as a HC. The other candidates don't. So I can see why Snyder is looking at him.

if zorn puts in a west coast offense next year i predict this team will lose 11 or 12 games. i was at auburn during jc's first two years when they tried to make him a west coast qb and it was hard to watch. his long delivery and suspect accuracy on the short ball make him ill suited to run the west coast. if zorn does use this o then he will have to retool jc's mechanics and we will surely have to sit thru double digit losses.

I'm laughing at Danny. Word is out that all the coaches are welcome back. Still can't stop laughing. Nothing says "Welcome" like firing BOTH coordinators following a playoff season.

Imagine how Gibbs feels now quitting as Head Coach? I wonder if he feels at least partly responsible for the firings and upheaval now? Maybe this is Snyder's way of getting back at Gibbs for leaving? As petty and vindictive as that sounds, who's to say it's not true?

Posted by: ga8085 | January 27, 2008 03:48 PM

Gibbs bears no fault in all of this. He left his prefered sucessor in great shape. In fact, I remember a rumor that got out that Gibbs was thinking about retiring this year to prevent Gregg Williams from leaving the organization.

One more thing: I understand the frustration fans have about wanting to quit the team. Right before St. Joe was hired and at the end of the Spurrier Era, I started turning my attention to the Chargers: close proximity to me, better weather, easier flights, etc. But quitting the burgundy and gold is darn near impossible...

Posted by: PDiddy | January 27, 2008 03:53 PM

You are right. I think we need to re-direct Redskin energy to changing the style of the Owner. Concentrating on the games will just be depressing. If we go 3-13 it will better in the long run.

No he said we might go deep in the playoffs with Todd at the helm. I am saying he is a typical Reporter blowing in the wind. He knows soccer but not football so cant take a will grounded position. The crap about JC is prof enough. He got better every 4-5 games. We had no O-line much of the year. If we did half the things fans and Jla wanted he would have been out week 7 not week 13.

Or to put in more "clearly" many fans and Jla wanted more of the play book. But JC could bearly handle what he had at any point in time. Makes no sense.

Posted by: mul | January 27, 2008 03:50 PM

You actually contradict yourself in the space of one post. We had a chance to go deep into the playoffs with Todd at the helm. After all he had just one four crucial games. And then you say that Campbell "could barely handle what he had at any point in time". So our reporter was saying that our better chances in the playoffs rested on Collins.

John Clayton of ESPN reported this afternoon 1/27 on ESPNNEWS that most likely Jim Fassel will be named head coach after the Super Bowl. Fassel agreed with the hire of both Jim Zorn and Blache for the coordinator positions so, who knows, only time will tell, but ugh anyway!!

mdvj ....and what matthewwmccarthy said.

To all the people who keep asking, "why wasn't GG interviewd for other HC positions?", do you really think any other owners wanted to get in a bidding war with Snyder? Snyder was paying GG more than most HCs, and just re-signed him in 2006 to a 3 year contract that goes through next year.... Who knew Snyder would give him away so easily? Williams is still due around $2.4 million in 2008.

When you sign someone to a record high contract, that usually means you intend to keep them around.... and Snyder has shown that he will not be outbid for someone he really wants.

Furthermore, he was endored by HOF Coach Gibbs as a sucessor. So most thinking people figured he's be a HC here after 2008.

Now do you see why other teams might not have interviewed him?

Ask Zorn one question. Jim, do you know if you will be calling the plays next year?

If he doesn't know the answer, then he shouldn't have come.

And since he doesn't know who the head coach will be, I doubt he knows the answer.

You actually contradict yourself in the space of one post. We had a chance to go deep into the playoffs with Todd at the helm. After all he had just one four crucial games. And then you say that Campbell "could barely handle what he had at any point in time". So our reporter was saying that our better chances in the playoffs rested on Collins.

Posted by: driley

There is not a contradiction.

Our reporter was doom and gloom after some close losses against good teams. We win a few with a QB with no arm stranth and no mobility and a weak O-line and its sooo much better. That is not football analysis that is blowing in the wind. See Obama coverage Great, down, great, down.

Imagine how Gibbs feels now quitting as Head Coach? I wonder if he feels at least partly responsible for the firings and upheaval now? Maybe this is Snyder's way of getting back at Gibbs for leaving? As petty and vindictive as that sounds, who's to say it's not true?

Posted by: ga8085 | January 27, 2008 03:48 PM

Gibbs bears no fault in all of this. He left his prefered sucessor in great shape. In fact, I remember a rumor that got out that Gibbs was thinking about retiring this year to prevent Gregg Williams from leaving the organization.

Posted by: jimwell | January 27, 2008 03:57 PM

I agree that it's not Gibbs fault. I'm just trying to understand the motivations of an owner to overhaul a playoff contender in one of the toughest divisions in football. It just doesn't seem rational to me so I'm thinking some kind of emotions are involved here instead of just football smarts.

So, with Al gone, what are the chances that Todd Collins remains with the Redskins? He is clearly an "Al guy" and you would think that other teams would see him as a viable backup after the last few games of the season. I admit, however, to knowing nothing about the QB situation in St. Louis.

With regard to the cap/contract restructuring, do players have any leverage here by playing hardball and simply saying no as a form of protest? You can't really cut most of these players without taking a cap hit, but any decision not to play along limits the ability of the team to bring in new players. Any idea who stays, who says fcuk you to Snyder and who simply departs via free agency?

Comments from Bram Weinstein:

"What did Gregg do to deserve this? Good question.. One source told me it was one of the interview sessions where he and Snyder ended up on different planes of understanding of how things were to be run.. Others say he and Cerrato don't quite see eye to eye on personnel decisions.. Truth is, Gregg would have gotten the job a week ago if the team thought he was the right guy.. They held onto him as a fallback option, but as things collapsed around them in what turned into plan A, Williams was left dangling and obviously spurned, so he's probably better off.. Whether the team is will be something of extreme debate until next season kicks off.."

i am starting to think we are all idiots up here.....sorta embarressed by pretty much every post up here (including some of mine) this weekend....

Our reporter was doom and gloom after some close losses against good teams. We win a few with a QB with no arm stranth and no mobility and a weak O-line and its sooo much better. That is not football analysis that is blowing in the wind. See Obama coverage Great, down, great, down.

Posted by: mul | January 27, 2008 04:06 PM

Good analysis from what you hear.

But, I like I said earlier, the truth is somewhere in the middle.

As far as I'm concerned, unless Williams said "F U, Dan. Your mother wears combat boots" or something to that effect in the interview, an interview should not outweigh onfield production. The defense was the backbone of the Skins for 3 of 4 years. Plus he had the endorsement of a HOF coach who mentored him for 4 years.

Funny thing, in the Wise column we get this:
"I would go to Gregg's son's games every Friday night," Cerrato said. "Me and him talked about that today, how we were both upset that there was a story out there that we didn't like each other. I didn't talk to Mort [Chris Mortensen of ESPN] or anyone. I don't know what happened there, but that's not how I feel about him."

...so if they're so close, why did Cerrato leave Williams in the dark for 2 weeks about where this search was headed? Couldn't he pick up a phone and say, "hey, bud... you didn't hear it from me, but Dan's kind of mad about you "jone-ing" on his mom." Or disagreeing with Gibbs, or whatever.

I guess I can understand that reasoning Alan4. I think in the past Fassel didn't call plays. If I remember right in 200 he fired his OC and took over play calling responsibilities. For the West Coast to work hear, the Skins need some big WR to compensate for JC's in accuracies in the short passing game.

alan 4

terrific use of the word joaning, havent heard or read it in years. i think its spelled like this though

We are not going to do the West Coast are we?

That does not suit JC skill set at all. Long ball anyone?

3-13

mdvj

are you ben roethlisberger?

PDiddy -- I live out here in the Bay Area. But I've been burgundy and gold since Charley Taylor was a RB.

Of all the things in life that can change emotional relationships, among the most powerful are being disrespected, humiliated or betrayed.

That is what Snyder has done. Directly to his staff. Indirectly to the fans. The complete lack of respect has left me totally on the other side.

I hope this move leads to Danny's bankruptcy. Its not totally out of the question. If the waiting list for tix disappears, Danny will take a huge hit. If the season ticket renewals fall to 70,000, which is higher then most teams, Danny will have lots of empty seats.

Which means the need to renew will lessen since 'walk up' tix will be more available.

Plus Danny won't get all that money for presaeason games.

I suspect a lot of people renew season tix knowing they can get better than face value if they need to resell them. Its no risk. A lot of people won't renew as readily if they are at $$$ risk.

Danny's other investments have been taking some hits. Six Flags stock?

If you remaining Skins fans want to have a championship team again in your lifetime, you need to hope Danny goes bankrupt. And a boycott of goods and giving up season tix IS your best shot.

Otherwise, you'll have owners like those near me. Al Davis and the Yorks. Good seasons are rare. Their fan bases are mostly thru the 12 step thing.

Of course,the Raiders have a silver lining. The owner is 78. Danny isn't.

I am sure Gibbs is still relieved to not be coaching the Redskins anymore, even though he still cares about the fate of his former coaching staff.

Gibbs probably did as well as he could at fixing the Redskins. But what he did not fully fix was the proper evaluation and acquiring of talent, which he has to take some of the blame for.

There was too much reliance on high priced free agents and not enough on the draft.

But what really kept the Redskins from being a really good team for Gibbs was the major mistakes they made on personnel such as Mark Burnnell, Adam Archuletta, Brandon Lloyd, etc. Too much cap money wasted on talent that did not work that could have been used for something more productive.

Missing with Mark Brunell probably set the tone for the problems of the last four years.

Ron Meeks is getting another interview!

4:20 post smoke'em if you got'em!

Some smart Skins fans need to go out on a boat in the Potomac and place some buoys near the shore of Danny's place that spell out "FCUK YOU" or something like that.

The good news, Danny will have no problem seeing it, its not like there are trees blocking his view or anyting ...

Ron Meeks

He is just using us for leverage. He has a future in the NFL.

But what really kept the Redskins from being a really good team for Gibbs was the major mistakes they made on personnel such as Mark Burnnell, Adam Archuletta, Brandon Lloyd, etc. Too much cap money wasted on talent that did not work that could have been used for something more productive.

i dont think brunell was a total failure as he did lead the team to the playoffs. the problem w/ brunell was that gibbs loyalty to him kept him from seeing the rapidly diminishing skills we all saw in 06. i also would like to hear you name some other failures that you put etc. for. i think other than arch and lloyd, gibbs personell choices worked out very well, both in free agency and the draft (albeit not enough players drafted)

Sean Taylor dies and they rent a Airbus 330 to get all the people to the funeral. If Danny died, a Cessna would be plenty.

No. That's funny though. I'm just saying JC needs bigger receivers to offset the others. What do you all think is going to happen to Trash. He's one of my favorites. But I have a bad feeling that he won't make it on the team this year?

matthewwmccarthy, I'm not sure I ever saw the word spelled out, just used to hear it used a lot. I guess I'm giving away my age by using it :-)

Oh the changes that are coming on the roster...

Brunnell gone. Collins gone. Skins need a competent and highly efficient backup West Coast QB before camp (who may very well end up being the starter).

I guarantee other upcoming moves/trades brought forth by the dynamic duo will make the Duckett and Lloyd deals look like steals.

I like Meeks. He's coming from a winning organization. Perhaps he can bring some of that winning thing to the Skins

I guarantee other upcoming moves/trades brought forth by the dynamic duo will make the Duckett and Lloyd deals look like steals.

Posted by: gdennie | January 27, 2008 04:29 PM

LMGO!!! Classic....

I wasn't going to post until after the Super Bowl, but I got to thinking. Shouldn't GG have some blame in this? I mean the guy clearly did not impress the owner and THE OWNER tried 4 times and GG couldn't impress him. I wonder what really went on the last 4 years the GG was such a hard pill to swallow.

Let's think a little. I remember Arrington being isolated, Archuletta being brought here then isolated, comments leaked out about GG making comments about the owner, lots of things just seem to not really gel.

It would have been easy for Dan to put GG as HC and replace him with Bill Cower next year but Dan obviously couldn't do that. GG is a bigger name than Fassel so Dan is not really trying to make a splash here.

Gibbs clearly didn't like Saunders offense and took control. Good for him, he is the HC and that is what he is supposed to do. Remember Gibbs was an offensive genious his first go around. So I respect his opinion on that.

I am not trying to defend Dan, that is hard to do but I just don't think GG and AL were all that and I also don't think we know the whole story. The media loves to BASH Snyder and now that we are doing it as well, it adds fuel to their fire. Hence JLaC's last post. I think I am willing to hang in there and see what happens. I have to admit that just the little bit I saw of interviews of GG on post games some of his comments would rub me the wrong way.

So maybe there is more to this than we know. I mean who blows up their team for Fassel without a really good reason? I doubt Dan is stupid enough to do that without a reason, because it will probably mean losing money. Remember the franchise is now making 1.5 billion thanks to Gibbs promoting GG would have continued that and Dan has to know that.

I'm just saying... talk to you all after the Super Bowl!

I like Meeks. He's coming from a winning organization. Perhaps he can bring some of that winning thing to the Skins

Posted by: mdvj

Why in gods name would he come here!!

Can anyone remember the OC and DC being chosen and all the staff being chosen before the HC. "Anyone Anyone".

So maybe there is more to this than we know. I mean who blows up their team for Fassel without a really good reason? I doubt Dan is stupid enough to do that without a reason, because it will probably mean losing money. Remember the franchise is now making 1.5 billion thanks to Gibbs promoting GG would have continued that and Dan has to know that.

I'm just saying... talk to you all after the Super Bowl!

Posted by: JoeyV

"I mean who blows up their team for Fassel without a really good reason? I doubt Dan is stupid enough to do that without a reason, because it will probably mean losing money."

That says it all.

Excellent points, JoeyV. I've been wondering about those interviews, too, but you have done a nice job of placing it in a larger context.

Still, Gibbs endorsement of GG is also part of that larger context... and I respect Gibbs as a judge of character... I don't know what to make of this, and the Friday night leaks (smear campaign?) really bother me as a Skins fan.

Can anyone remember the OC and DC being chosen and all the staff being chosen before the HC. "Anyone Anyone".

Jones and Parcells picked OC's before the HC over the past two years.

I believe BOTH Coordinators being picked before the HC is a new NFL precedent.

Danny plows new ground as he rides this team into oblivion.

Lets see these jack A's (snyderatto)are running the team they let go two coordinators,and they seem to be wanted men. How many teams would be interested in talking to these two MORONS if they were free to sign elsewhere. That would be exactly 0.

Mul

Barry Switzer? Just a guess

Question "how much would Snyder have to pay you to start defending him and coaching decisions on this blog?"

Me $3,500.

Is anyone lessening? I can be bought.

Mul

Barry Switzer? Just a guess

Posted by: mdvj | January 27, 2008 04:44 PM

I think they had everything in place (Norv and company) so I should have said "new OC and DC." But you are correct.

Marty had the Skins moving in the right direction and Danny blew it up ... for Spurrier!!! Marty had a proven track record, but more meaningful, he showed he could be successful while working for Danny boy. He throws it away for an unproven new guy. Who proved he didn't belong.

Two weeks ago, Danny had a team headed in the right direction. Though there is a difference. Instead of blowing up it for a new guy who's never coached at this level, this time Danny blows it for ... a guy to be named later!!!

The other major example in "etc" part of my last post would be TJ Duckett, for whom we gave up draft picks and money.

I would argue a good GM would make a big difference with this team, something Snyder has never thought he needed and Gibbs seemed to go along with.

Brunell was given a big contract and was intended to be the veteran started for at least three or four years. Because they were only able to get one good year out of him, this ended up being a huge pesonnel mistake, which may have been why Gibbs stuck with him so long rather than own up to it and go with a rookie QB, where you are going to have ups and downs for a while (years).

The reason they signed the coordinators first is to let the new coach know that he's nothing but a figurehead -- a puppet.

Excellent points, JoeyV. I've been wondering about those interviews, too, but you have done a nice job of placing it in a larger context.

Still, Gibbs endorsement of GG is also part of that larger context... and I respect Gibbs as a judge of character... I don't know what to make of this, and the Friday night leaks (smear campaign?) really bother me as a Skins fan.

Posted by: Alan4 | January 27, 2008 04:40 PM

I wasn't going to post but since you addressed me :)... I agree with you on Gibbs, however, I still wonder why Gibbs retired, and Gibbs is going to push his own internal people. I think because of Gibbs, Danny had 4 interviews with GG and one 10 hour session. GG seemed to be given a ton of chances there. When I first heard he was interviewed 4 times I was taken back but then people on the sports shows said that GG and Dan were just planning the future. How wrong they were.

Smear campaigns? Hmmmm I didn't actually read them, I just heard reports of them - so who really knows? Again lots of folks hate our owner for various reasons one being that he over spends on his coaches which has to bother other owners, and he rarely ever gives reporters the scoop. Like Len P.

So who really knows? If I am a business man I wouldn't bring Fassel in the replace GG and Snyder is the king of business so I am just having a hard time with all the flaming that is going on and everyone putting GG on a pedestal.

It all makes you wonder doesn't it???

So hard to decide what news to be outraged about and what news to just be mildly upset about. I guess I'm still holding out a tiny bit of hope that we hire a coach who inspires me more than Fassel does. But I am sitting on a powder keg of preemptive outrage, oh yes siree, Bob.

As others have said, I sure do miss Coach Gibbs.

mdvj, I strongly suspect Thrash will be gone.....Gibbs said Thrash would be here as long as he was here....Gibbs loved Thrash...he was a "Core Redskin".

We all know what happens to "Core Redskins" when Danny the Devil gets his hands on them.

The reason they signed the coordinators first is to let the new coach know that he's nothing but a figurehead -- a puppet.

Posted by: info | January 27, 2008 04:53 PM

Maybe, Jerry Jones signed Garret before getting there latest coach. Or maybe Dan is already working with the next HC? Also the only thing Dan has really blown up is the offense which can't seem to score 21 points consistently anyway so what loss is there really?

Greg Blache is there for continuity, and we will see how that all pans out. hmmm....

"I wasn't going to post until after the Super Bowl, but I got to thinking. Shouldn't GG have some blame in this? I mean the guy clearly did not impress the owner and THE OWNER tried 4 times and GG couldn't impress him. I wonder what really went on the last 4 years the GG was such a hard pill to swallow."
-------------------------------

GG wanted someone OTHER than Vinny Cerrato picking his players and managing salary cap -- in other words, he didn't want to be set up to fail. That's why he didn't get the job.

GG wanted someone OTHER than Vinny Cerrato picking his players and managing salary cap -- in other words, he didn't want to be set up to fail. That's why he didn't get the job.

Posted by: davidlee2913 | January 27, 2008 04:59 PM

How do you know? And why does it take 4 interviews and one 10 hour session to fire GG? I was on board with all the flaming until I took a step back and started thinking last night... Just seems odd to me and the media loves to pile on, against our team. So do the officials by the way :-)

Its still all about respect. If I'm Demarcus Ware, the first thing I say to Chris Samuels is "too bad your owner has no respect for you. Hard to want to play for a guy like that"

I agree completely with Joey V, I've been trying to say this for a while, GG was by all accounts a jerk, and the one year he struggled that defense was bordering on mutiny, more than likely there will be struggles as a head coach and that guy needs to a unifier not a divider. I think the promotion of Blache was huge, keeps continuity, we know the same or a similar system will be used and that Blache knows the personnel and knows what else he needs to get better. Zorn was a great hire, a QB guy to tailor a system around JC, retaining Buges!!!! awsome!!! the only thing I don't get is doing all this without a head coach, my best guess is Fassel is the guy and they're just taking their time in ironing out the contract and the responsibilities on the personnel side. I can't Spags coming here now when he's younger and less experienced than Blache and runs a different system. But I could absolutely see McDaniels, he could come here with his offensive schemes and essentially Zorn would be a glorified QB coach (which he's very good at) and Blache would be free to continue to run the D. I think its Fassel but McDaniels could sneak in there and I think that has to be who Snyder wants to talk to from the Super Bowl teams, he'll interview McD and then quickly pick and announce.

F*** Demarcus Ware!!!

For all you suckers worried about players, the purge will happen. Danny is cleaning house so he can get Cowher next year.

Problem is, Cowher will have other offers and Danny doesn't have enough $$$ to get Cowher to coach for him. Because Cowher won't go where he doesn't respect the guy in charge. Cowher will go to Seattle or some other place where the owner respects his coaches and players.

Danny isn't afraid of losing. He is afraid of winning and not getting credit for it.

is Buges staying? Wouldn't count on it. Some guys are older and will stick around for the paycheck.

Only 3 HC changes this offseason, so there is a lot less movement than usual. But there is no loyalty to Snyder and I'd bet every coach is looking for a way out that doesn't require too big a hit.

zcezcest1

you don't really pay attention do you? Jim Mora is Seattle's next coach just as Jim Caldwell is Indy's. I'm not saying Cowher will be here, but how can you say Snyder doesn't have enough money????? that is the one thing he does have, if he's willing to give up total control, he'll get whoever he wants cause that check will always be bigger than anybody else's.

Cowher will go to Seattle or some other place where the owner respects his coaches and players.

Posted by: zcezcest1 | January 27, 2008 05:08 PM

Cowher's going to Carolina. He already moved there so the owner doesn't have to pay his moving expenses.

They're going to change the name of the team from Carolina to Cowherlina.

Question "how much would Snyder have to pay you to start defending him and coaching decisions on this blog?"

Me $3,500.

Is anyone lessening? I can be bought.

Posted by: mul | January 27, 2008 04:45 PM

For me I'd say that it would have to be free season tickets... for life. And the occasional ride on the team jet. Hey, that's what it took to get Sonny and George Michael to always pick the Skins, why should I take any less?

Again, you don't really pay attention do you, the official press release said they were retaining everyone but Al, Al's son, GG, and Bill Lazor.....if GG goes somewhere we could lose some of the D guys but nobody is coming after Buges, he's here.

F*** Demarcus Ware!!!

Posted by: mdvj | January 27, 2008 05:05 PM

and his mother

What do people think the "player purge" is going to look like? I think there would have been a "player purge" under any new coach -- need to get younger on the O and need to get rid of several players whose salary exceeds their productivity. This is a good thing.

duckett is a good call but i still disagree on brunell. he was brougt in to play and when he couldnt he has been a solid mentor for jc along with collins. he served his purpose, especially since he was always willing to reneg. and he toook a major decrease in pay last year. i only pray that he never sees the field in a skins uni again , but im not opposed to him staying on the roster as a vet minimum 3rd string tutor, or as a qb coach. he is still a smart guy and a smart player

Talent

I think some of the big names like Daniels, Jasen, Griff (maybe), will be gone. I think Springs stays because of the lack of depth in the secondary.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/rings?lpos=spotlight&lid=tab5pos2

check out the ring from sb XXVI. its effin bad. anyone know where to get these made, or buy a replica.

Funny thing about a train wreck is that, in most cases, all the signas are working. Usually, some idiot ignores them because they think they know better.

Just keep saying yes Vinny.

t_e, "player purge" means to me a lot more roster deletions/additions than you could count on in a "normal" offseason (what's the average roster turnover per season in the NFL, it's gotta be around 20%, right?). Hard to say if that's really what's in store.

My point: every season for almost every team there is a lot of turnover up and down the roster. Especially when the team has to do salary cap somersaults, as we usually do.

Are we going to lose a few more "name" guys this offseason than we would have if Gibbs had stayed? Maybe, but who the heck really knows?

Mr. Talent are you aware what has just happened. Vinny and Dan are calling the shots again. No Gibbs to stop them.

There is nothing good going on unless you are into "top ten picks for life."

Gibbs as many people on the blog can not comprehend had the team on an upward trajectory. Dan and Vinny when they were in control ended with a very bad 5-11 team under the ball coach with, no WR no QB no D linemen and bad LB.

Why in the world would you hire an offensive coordinator like Saunders if you are not going to let him work his magic? He has proven with another ex-Redskin QB that the system works. Gibbs left points off the board because of handcuffing Saunders. Saunders will unveil his full arsenal with the Rams and watch out. We will witness what that systems looks like with a team that knows how to use their people and not micromanage them.

Same with Williams. Wouldn't it be sweet irony if both Williams and Saunders ended up in St Louis and take the same package they had with the Redskins, without the handcuffs, and win the Superbowl??? I think it would be poetic justice. Not that I want our Skins to fail, but if we aren't the ones going to the big dance, let it be wherever those two go... I want to see them make it big time. Danny let Casserly go an regrets it... my suspicion is, he will privately do the same when those guys resurface in environments that allow them to do what they do best... win.

Prediction - wheeling and dealing this Spring. The sanity check known as JG is gone and these two titans of football will be burning up the phone lines.

Smart GM's are watching these toddlers closely and they will package 'attactive' deals to them in exchange for draft picks.

Remember, it's just the two of them. The parents have left and they are in charge.

BONG!

beep beep

Well, according to ESPN, Meeks gets another shot next week. I wonder if that means Snyder isn't REALLY sold on Fassel? I sure hope so, I don't want Fassel as our head coach.

Snyder has handled this situation ALL wrong, but I was never really sold on GG, and NEVER liked Saunders. We don't know(and neither does JLC) what role Gibbs played in the difficulties the offense had this past year, but I heard in interviews several players questioning the play calling and planning, those would be at least in part, Al Saunders. We know the big blow up last year with Williams and the players, in fact I think JLC was one of the manyu media folks who absulutely ripped GG for being such an a$$ to his players and ruining the defense. Now JLC writing the guy is a f@$king God of a coach!

 I don't like the way this was handled, and Snyder has definitely mad our team once again one that other teams laugh at, but I'm not sure that this isn't best in the long run.

Only time will tell, and I'm a Skins fan, so they have till I die to get it done, cuz my "fandom" will never change.
 

zjfr -- the reason Danny doesn't have 'nuf $$ for Cowher is simple. Cowher won't work for Danny because $$$ can't buy respect.

If you want a power running offensive philosophy it doens't take alot of game film to realize that Al Saunders is probably not your man.

Posted by: p1funk | January 27, 2008 03:21 PM

You didn't see Priest Holmes in the KC offense?

I usually refrain from the J-La bashing, but this post was B.S.
If Gibbs didn't have any say in how the Offense was structured, Jason would say 'this coach as a CEO thing isn't working... Gibbs needs to be more involved... etc'
Now Jasno's saying Gibbs handcuffed Saunders and blah blah blah.
Very disappointing Jasno. Now isn't the time to take shots at one of the greatest coaches and people in the history of the NFL!

Whew! Man oh man .. the more this thing drags on the more glaringly obvious it becomes that the Skins is just one big dysfunctional organization. Don't know whether to believe it or not that Saunders and other offensive coaches were not included in prep meetings. If any of this is comes from a reliable source, one has to ask; why in hell did Gibbs bring Saunders in here.

Lisa...for you to suggest that someone "might try to put a hit out" on Snyder is beyond ridiculous. We're talking about football, and for that to even enter this blog is reprehensible. Get a grip!!! Snyder has a family too!!!

". . . Marty had the Skins moving in the right direction and Danny blew it up ... for Spurrier!!! Marty had a proven track record, but more meaningful, he showed he could be successful while working for Danny boy. He throws it away for an unproven new guy. Who proved he didn't belong.

Two weeks ago, Danny had a team headed in the right direction. Though there is a difference. Instead of blowing up it for a new guy who's never coached at this level, this time Danny blows it for ... a guy to be named later!!!"

HERE, HERE!!

Fortunately, in the grand scheme of things, football is entertainment and doesn't matter in our real worlds on a day to day basis. But, I digress.

It's pretty clear that the fans and the media are starting to annoy Snyder, and his PR people are telling him to hold off on Fassel. In fact, he may have scrapped the plan--not counting on all the furor. But he messed with the wrong guy this time--Joe Gibbs (despite all his faults) is still DC/Redskins royalty.

Fans/supporters should not underestimate their clout. PR is huge, and the local and national media talking heads as well as NFL people (active and retired) are slamming the Skins organization hourly on Sirius. Make no mistake, Snyder's been told to hold off until after the super bowl, hoping for the 19-0 diversion--GO GIANTS!

Don't get me wrong, Snyder does NOT care what we think, but those who have to facilitate his dementia take us very seriously; and they let him know it.

We're talking the Washington Raidinals from now on.

Protest planned tomorrow at 7pm in front of Danny Boy's house!!! Lets stand in front of his house and make him sell this team!!! Snyder may be able to make money but he sure cannot build a football team!!!

"Very disappointing Jasno. Now isn't the time to take shots at one of the greatest coaches and people in the history of the NFL!"

I'm sure Jason has more connections with this then you do. He's only stating what everyone else reported as well(ESPN, FOX, Sporting News, ect..

No surprises here.

Both Al and Gregg are two of the top coordinators in the game. It's funny to me that they are so much in demand except here with the Redkskins. To me that is very telling.

If it wasn't for Gregg Willams defenses this team would have been no better then before Gibbs returned. He deserved better then what he got in Washington.

Even after Al was hired you could tell they were still running Gibbs old 80's plays. One time the Redskins were on the opponents 20 yard line, I believe it was the first Giants game. The camera zoomed in on Gibbs and you could read his lips saying "heavy jumbo." Sure enough here it is coming onto the field...from the 20? Well, we all know how that turned out.

Again, here's the cap for next year and the figures:

http://www.thehogs.net/washington-redskins/salary.php

I think you're going to see a lot of players leave on the defensive side of the ball. They are definately going to ask players to take a pay cut since they are so far over the cap and I'm sure there will be some that say "no" simply because of Willams departure. Springs will most likely be first to be gone, followed by others.

There sure is a lot of money wrapped up in that very, very, average offensive line there. That should be interesting.

And Gibbs is not faultless either, but keeping the team together this past season the way he did gets him a cookie. ;)

But Leprechuan Danny has ruined all of that in just a couple of weeks. Lame ass bama.

Thanks for having the balls to write the truth Jason, it's well appreciated! Give Jason a break people, it's not like he's the only one printing this stuff.

"I wants me gold!"

- Ray

I hope Al is vindicated wherever he goes -- he's a first class guy with a classy system -- here, he was saddled with a lousy head coach whose time had passed him by, a lousy young QB whose time will never come, and a lousy owner who deserves what he's gonna get -- decades of losing!

Wherever they go I WILL CHEER FOR THEM TO BEAT MY FORMER TEAM (That is Dan's TEAM).

I find it very interesting the Riggins and most of the rest of the Washington Media were calling for Joe's head for first 2/3 of the season.
Now they got what they were asking for A REAL MESS!

I'm a little confused doesn't the HEAD COACH name their offensive and defensive coordinators? So potentially whatever head coach is nuts enough to want to coach this team will HAVE to work with Zorn and Blache. This franchise is a train wreck. Tune in next week for another thrilling episode of As the Coaching Wheel Turns.

Sponsered by Snyder Communications, Johnny Rockets & Six Flags

What little danny has done to the Skins is shameful & sad. He makes Angelos look good!
The best man for the job as Coach has been dismissed, not due to ability or his worthiness, but because he isn't a butt kisser & because he doesn't respect or care for Cerrato. Williams would have been a good choice, but he won't sit around & smoke cigars with the geek & tell him what he wants to hear. Everyone knows Cerrato will & is around to be a yes man, to make little danny think he is doing well, that danny can be a GM in the NFL. I might as well be calling myself a brain surgeon too. I doubt little danny has ever put on a jock. He doesn't want a football guy to be the guy there, he wants a Cerrato. Anyone notice how Cerrato couldn't get a job , any job, in football after Schottenheimer fired him? He sat around ESPN doing some ignorant chat stuff. That is how valuable he is considered around the NFL. Here, he is in charge of football operations? Gimme a break.
As for the current list for Coach, I suppose Steve Mariucci is the best alternative , but I don't think that is a great choice. He can deal with danny's desire to play GM & Cerrato's need to play court jesture , that is his best attribute. Fassel? PLEASE NO! In Baltimore they are laughing at that idea. Did anyone see him get an interview there? There is a good reason... Meeks, he is all D, not what they need here , not now.
Also, as for a west coast offense, they have the wrong personnel for that & Philly proved that can't win consistently in the NFC East. The QB of choice, Campbell, is NOT a west coast type at all. He is a more down the field type QB. Quick timing routes are not his forte. This will be a disaster. I am a diehard fan, have been for 25+ years, but this all looks bad for the team & I am prepared for some bad years ahead with the guys running the show, the system picked, all the way down. Thanks alot danny...