SHABINGUS

Watch. He'll be amazing somewhere else. I wonder if the Eagles are licking their chops?

It had to be done. There is to much talent at the WR position this year they could get via FA or draft.

Quarter-mil a catch.

Nice work if you can get it.

What great news, I think I'm going to have a beer tonight to celebrate!

kost, you were going to have a beer anyway you drunk aussie

His next stop may be Chicago....
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/playerpage/396021

I'll miss his rapping the most.

I say he goes to the Raiders. The team of cast-offs.

My guess is he goes somewhere else and at least has a pro-bowl caliber season...

What rhymes with 400k per catch?

Does anyone know what this does to the cap?

anyone knows how much cap we save ?

Vinny Cerrato the "World Class Talent evaluator" strikes again.

"Where you at... Where you at eighty five. Ocho Cinco."

For all that money, you would think the least he could do is illegally cut down trees at Danny Boys house overlooking the Potomac.

Awesome!

Zorn went back on his word! Zorn has no honor! He said he would give Lloyd a shot, and then he got cut!

The reason this excites me is that it means his reassurance to Jason Campbell doesn't mean a freaking thing!

Woot! Trade Jason Campbell next! Bye Bye Cry Baby!

Dorf, yeah, but it's good to have an excuse!

I'll miss his presence in the locker room.

I doubt it was Zorn who threw Receiver, The under the bus.

It was the Turcolossus.

Lloyd was reported as saying:
"Don't tase me bro."

I'll miss his reserved demeanor.

I'll miss his on-field production.

I'll miss his TD celebration dance.

I reckon he'll be going to the Rams, after all Weird Al think's he's the greatest receiver he's ever seen!

.....wrist to fingertip!

Brandon Lloyd may do fine elsewhere. Remember, he had the crappiest QB in the league throwing to him...Jason Campbell, and before that he had the aged Mark Brunell.

Our QBs remind me of Dumb and Dumber, except its more like Crap and Crappier.

Great. Now who's going to represent the skins in the Halo 3 tournament?

I'll miss seeing ol number...(?)

(Should we retire it out of respect for future players, what was it?)

Our QBs remind me of Dumb and Dumber, except its more like Crap and Crappier.

Posted by: Sports_Guru | February 26, 2008 06:05 PM

Hilarious! But do site your source guru, there's no way you made up that little gem on your own!

Maybe he'll write a song about his time with the Skins and rap about Napoleon his old boss

No questions ... sniff ... please ... sniff ... just talk to my public relations staff ... sniff ... http://www.blloyd.com/

That jerk is sitting on the hood of my new car!

Awesome!

Zorn went back on his word! Zorn has no honor! He said he would give Lloyd a shot, and then he got cut!

The reason this excites me is that it means his reassurance to Jason Campbell doesn't mean a freaking thing!

Woot! Trade Jason Campbell next! Bye Bye Cry Baby!

Posted by: Sports_Guru | February 26, 2008 05:57 PM

I don't believe he said any such thing. I believe he indicated he wanted to speak w/ Receiver, The before making a decision about him. Zorn gave no indication that he would be retaining Rec, T. So, I'd guess that the conversation took place and Rec, T failed to convince Zorn that he could drop the per catch cost from $400K per down to something like $100K per.

Which draft picks were better spent? The two we gave up to get B. lloyd or the 4th round pick we gave up for Trung Canidate when the Ol' ball coach decided he couldn't work with Stephen Davis. The machine keeps churning.

In related news, Michael Westbrook is officially not the biggest WR bust in Redskins history.

why cut ocho stinko now? it costs at least 4 mill against the cap. why not wait till june. isnt that when the roster bonus was due? does this seem odd to anyone else?

WOW step away from the computer and behind by 150 posts.

Although CP worked out for us, we were fleeced by Denver on this trade and the Duckett trade. CB for CP should have been straight up, but we also gave up a draft choice. This is the other reason I hate to see the FO make trades. Even when we get a good player, we give up too much.

Which draft picks were better spent? The two we gave up to get B. lloyd or the 4th round pick we gave up for Trung Canidate when the Ol' ball coach decided he couldn't work with Stephen Davis. The machine keeps churning

i still think the "best" trade was a 3rd rounder for duckett and his 10 carries. genius, genius, genius!

why cut ocho stinko now? it costs at least 4 mill against the cap. why not wait till june. isnt that when the roster bonus was due? does this seem odd to anyone else?

Posted by: matthewwmccarthy | February 26, 2008 06:18 PM

I think the bonus was due earlier than June. It could have been that he and Zorn did have the chat and Lloyd requested a "mercy cut" now b/c he knew the axe was coming down and wanted to get back into the the UFA pool as soon as possible. Without a personal vendetta, Zorn wouldn't have a basis to string him out and keep him off the market.

Yes. It seems a little odd, except the FO must think they can afford to take the hit now and avoid the hit in 2009.

Geez, just when he was starting to get the system down pat, they cut him.

Life ain't fair.

Ten million will be a good substitute for fairness however.

What a terrible decision (signing him).

They can cut him now but use him as a post June 1 cut.

Oh yeah I forgot Duckett...That would be the worst, but I like to throw in a Trung canidate reference whenever possible

lloyd deserves no mercy. he didnt earn it by losing the falcons game for us or by dropping jc's first ever pass which would have been an effing td. imagine if jc had of gotten that completion, what it would have done for his confidence. it would have been better than cp toting a 65 yarder to the crib the first time he touched it as a skin. f lloyd and f giving him any mercy. im a little bitter as you can tell being as i not only predicted lloyd would be a star player but also that he would win multiple grammys. f lloyd!!!

Finallt they cut that bum! Kost is a drunk aussie.

Well now we have a free spot for another player. If there was ever an argument to only allow players contracts to be performance based Lloyd is it.

Aaah Lloyd....what a disappointment...

Who on this board can tell me they were not excited upon hearing that he was coming???

He was THE lone brightspot on crappy 49ers teams with no QB.....WTF happened to him??

Was he playing too much HALO????

"Watch. He'll be amazing somewhere else."

Not likely, or he'd stil be with the 49ers.

- Ray

What a waste! 3rd & 4th round picks, $10M guaranteed signing bonus, and his signing bonus will still affect our salary cap over the next few years since all signing bonuses are spread over the life of the contract (originally $30M over 6 years).

Once again, our front office has no clue how to draft personnel half the time, and they always trade away good picks for "over-priced" free agents that don't work out half the time (see Archuleta as well), etc.

What a waste! 3rd & 4th round picks, $10M guaranteed signing bonus, and his signing bonus will still affect our salary cap over the next few years since all signing bonuses are spread over the life of the contract (originally $30M over 6 years).

Should only count this year and next. Regardless, still dumb FO evaluation of talent.

Kost is a drunk aussie.

Posted by: tasoscilaris | February 26, 2008 06:31 PM

Well, not at the moment, I'm at work!

Hmmm finally something worth emerging from my leetle cave for.

Buh bye "Almost Invisible" - won't be missed because you didn't do anything and you took up money, time, practice, roster spot and oxygen that could have been spent on someone else.

After the coaching clusterfcuk I've been happy with the dull as nails off season so far.

All i can say is FREE OJ.... Loyd's play on the field was just as funny as the senator in min. twiddling his fingers under the mens bathroom stall.....

All i can say is FREE OJ.... Loyd's play on the field was just as funny as the senator in min. twiddling his fingers under the mens bathroom stall.....

Posted by: yallunchin | February 26, 2008 06:50 PM

I always found poor field play to be depressing not funny.

Okay so he will snap the ball and I will run up the side line real fast. Oh crap he already snaped it.
Run
Run
Run
Run
hey look there is the ball, eh its a little high I don't think I want to jump and get it.
Well golly Mr Dolphins Safety, how are you why you jumping up in the air like that?
Oh he has the ball now, I am sure he will just run out of bounds on his own right?
No?
Oh I don't want to tackle him though I could hurt my self.

mdv..."too much talent at wide-receiver"..? you kidding, right? You sharing what you smokin'?
Santana, yes. Randle-El? no...lost a step or 2 or 3. Nope. and who else were you thinking of?

It had to be done. There is to much talent at the WR position this year they could get via FA or draft.

Posted by: mdvj | February 26, 2008 05:41 PM

mdv..."too much talent at wide-receiver"..? you kidding, right? You sharing what you smokin'?
Santana, yes. Randle-El? no...lost a step or 2 or 3. Nope. and who else were you thinking of?

Posted by: al852 | February 26, 2008 07:04 PM

I think he said in FA and the draft.

Santana, yes. Randle-El? no...lost a step or 2 or 3. Nope. and who else were you thinking of?

Posted by: al852 | February 26, 2008 07:04 PM

Uh their stats from last season are very close to one another? Even closer if you want to add El's return numbers and go all purpose yards.

Antwaan Randle El Cth 51 Yds 728 YPC 14.3 YPG 48.5 TD 1
Santana Moss Cth 61 Yds 808 YPC 13.2 Ypg 57.7 TD 3

Peace the fcuk out B-Lloyd - you are a flamming homos3xual.....you'll not be missed.

Don't let the door hit ya where your boyfriend split ya.

BONG!

(I'm not bashing g*y people, sorry if this offended any of you - its just B-Lloyd was a flamer and had no business running his 'mouf' at the end of the '06 season)

BONGITY BONG BONG!

It's very deceptive, but if you look closely, you can see that Antwaan hasn't lost a step or two, he's actually taking two to the left, then three to the right, THEN one forward.

Lloyd cut, but what was the hit to the cap?!

Brandon Lloyd - Waived Prior to June 1: ($2.9)

That's the hit people.

We'd save 2.4 if he's designated after June 1 cut.

So if someone posts something and every other word makes reference to fly fishing, or uses fly fishing slang or metaphors for fly fishing, wouldn't you think: "Wow. That guy must really be into fly fishing."

kerzon..thnx. you're right.
mdv...oops, my bad. Thought you were talking about our Skins.
kost...funnnyy. You got that right.

lloyd out LIMAS SWEED IN!!!!!!

Assuming he is not designated a post-June 1st cut, they are taking the dead money this year. Already looking ahead to 2009?

Wow - I was just looking at USA Today's NFL salary database and was cutting players (if I were GM), and came up with $26M in cuts. Then as if by magic, the Skins cut Lloyd! They should cut the top 6 earners in cap value, and take the hit this year. They have no 1st round draft picks, should NOT add free agents, and should just bite the bullet this year and next. Get the cap numbers down, get back in the draft game, and then trade down to get more good players instead of trying to get great players early in the draft. This assumes they know what they're doing. I don't, but I'm not a GM.

Snyder makes a habit every year of re-working contracts to lower the cap number. Skins have the #21 pick this year

Okay, 7:18 pm clarified it. The penny drops.

I don't much like that silly "BONG" and I sure don't like bigmurf08. Yuck.

And, sfskin, nice to see you on the blog. My sentiments exactly.

Okay, back to the cavern of anticlimactic gloom that is my Redskins off-season.

Lloyd was a bust pure and simple, and a big personnel mistake by Gibbs and Snyder. Hopefully, this is the last of the big time free agent busts from the Gibbs era. Last year's free agents (Fletcher, Kendall, Godfrey) panned out well.

I'm so excited for tonight's Democratic debate. I'm sad that Receiver, The was cut. Two sentences in this post are lies.

Good riddance POS. He'll be out of the league soon.

Any word on whether he'll be designated a June 1 exemption? My expectation was that he and Wade would be the two...

Lloyd was a bust pure and simple, and a big personnel mistake by Gibbs and Snyder.

Posted by: rickyroge | February 26, 2008 07:54 PM

I believe he was an Al Saunders mistake. This is just rumor.

"The rumored force behind this deal, as reported in 2007 by the
Washington Post, was Al Saunders. Saunders thought that Lloyd had
physical abilities that 99% of NFL receivers could only dream of. He
thought he could get his offense to the next level, beyond where it
was in Kansas City, if the Redskins could get their hands on Lloyd.

In doing so, Saunders may have sealed his fate with the Redskins.
Let's be clear: the notion that Saunders strongly recommended bringing
Lloyd in is a small tidbit tucked into a news story that, in a
calendar year, has not been backed up by any other source. It's not
all that relevant. Lloyd has been leaching a roster spot and a
significant portion of the Redskins present and future cap since he's
been brought here, and he's been avoiding any course of action that
might help the justification of an awful deal. Saunders' fate was
sealed by the inability of the Redskins to improve their offense since
2005, and Lloyd is public enemy number one."

Mike Wise was just on Comcast SportsNet talking about the Redskins release of Brandon Lloyd.

He joked about how one day last Summer, Lloyd walked up to Clinton Portis in the locker room and said "I went fishing the other day and caught a fish that looked just like you" Clinton just shook his head, and walked away. Any wonder why this guy is no longer a Redskin?

Ashame Clinton didn't just kick his ass.

So if someone posts something and every other word makes reference to fly fishing, or uses fly fishing slang or metaphors for fly fishing, wouldn't you think: "Wow. That guy must really be into fly fishing."

Posted by: mack1 | February 26, 2008 07:34 PM

It's all in the wrist, that fly fishing.

kost, I've heard of sushi off strippers, and maybe selected dessert items. But hamburgers, no. I've never been, but I hope that's not why everybody here likes Five Guys so much.

Redskins cut WR Brandon Lloyd.

A year late. Lloyd symbolizes Washington's problems the last few years. They gave up two-mid round picks to pay him over $12 million in two years, and now take a cap hit to cut him. Lloyd could end up in Chicago where Ron Turner, his college coach, is the Bears' offensive coordinator. Feb. 26 - 5:49 pm et
Source: Washington Post

So apparently, if this story is correct, he was not designated a post June 1 cut. Maybe trying to free up some of next years dead cap space.

There's actually 2 people on the Raiders blog calling to sign Bloyd. Of course the rest of the blog is berating them.

Desmond Howard, Michael Westbrook, Taylor Jacobs. Darnerian McCouldn't

Yeah, sure, draft a WR.

This FO gives ineptness a Bad Name.

Archuleta, BLloyd, Bruce Smith, Deion, firing Marty, Hiring Ball Coach, it's JIM FASSELL!, Rocky McHurtIntosh, LaVar, Buh-Bye Pierce....Bringing back Cerratto, yuck.

Well the Bears have just re-upped both Grossman and Orton. So sure, I'd believe they'd be stupid enough to sign Lloyd.

Wow...Just Wow! (We haven't heard that in a while so I couldn't resist). Lloyd has ridden 3 or 4 miraculous catches to $12 mil. And really, when he caught them, he looked as surprised as anyone.

Lloyd's continued presence in the league would mean that the NFL should protract to the original 10 or 12 teams. The talent can't be that diluted.

Lloyd was a super-talented guy coming from San Fran. He made one of the best catches in NFL history there. Just a sad case of a guy who got his money and didnt give a crap about anything else. With Springs, Randel El, Andre Carter, Marcus Washington, Fletcher, tec. the Skins havent been terrible LATELY with FA signings, just missed this one big time

I sense some animosity corky. Not happy with the turcolossus?

Well the Bears have just re-upped both Grossman and Orton. So sure, I'd believe they'd be stupid enough to sign Lloyd.

Posted by: SMACK1 | February 26, 2008 08:23 PM

Don't forget they're keeping Archuleta too!

Okay, 7:18 pm clarified it. The penny drops.

I don't much like that silly "BONG" and I sure don't like bigmurf08. Yuck.

And, sfskin, nice to see you on the blog. My sentiments exactly.

Okay, back to the cavern of anticlimactic gloom that is my Redskins off-season.

Posted by: farstriker | February 26, 2008 07:47 PM

LOL, Fartstriker, nice name!

BONG!

Lloyd was a super-talented guy coming from San Fran. He made one of the best catches in NFL history there. Just a sad case of a guy who got his money and didnt give a crap about anything else. With Springs, Randel El, Andre Carter, Marcus Washington, Fletcher, tec. the Skins havent been terrible LATELY with FA signings, just missed this one big time

Posted by: mdipierro44 | February 26, 2008 08:24 PM

Lloyd wasn't a free agent, we traded to get him. Just like T.J. Buckett.

Desmond Howard, Michael Westbrook, Taylor Jacobs. Darnerian McCouldn't

Yeah, sure, draft a WR.

Posted by: corkczar | February 26, 2008 08:20 PM


Don't forget Rod Gardner. He was awesome.

Well that experiment went well, nothing like throwing away picks and money on a guy , who we obviously thought we were smarter than the rest of league who new he was a head case....move on, like i keep saying find a franchise QB and when a TO blows up or Javon Kerse is hurt all the time you are a smart well run organization, that in its simplest form is the game today...I'll just keep repeating myself until you all become believers....or treat me like barno....

So who are the Redskins going to trade for? One team the Skins have traded with is the Jets who are putting up Vilma and Robertson. It's said neither fits well in the Jets 3-4 scheme. But who would we trade them? Kendall and Fabini?

Andre Dyson may be a viable, relatively cheap corner to add depth. Injured last year with a sprained medial collateral ligament. Opinions? I don't know much about this guy.

Defensive Stats
Year Team G Total Tkl Ast Sacks Int Yds Avg Lg TD Pass Def
2001 Tennessee Titans 14 58 54.0 4 0 3 36 12.0 36 0 14
2002 Tennessee Titans 16 59 54.0 5 1 3 27 9.0 16 1 11
2003 Tennessee Titans 16 65 54.0 11 0 4 62 15.5 51 2 10
2004 Tennessee Titans 16 41 35.0 6 0 6 135 22.5 44 0 9
2005 Seattle Seahawks 10 20 19.0 1 0 1 72 72.0 72 1 9
2006 New York Jets 15 62 51.0 11 0 4 -3 -0.8 0 0 8
2007 New York Jets 9 12 12.0 0 0 1 0 0.0 0 0 4
TOTAL 96 317 279.0 38 1 22 329 15.0 72 4 65

Fumbles

skinfanman

I know Greg and Scamp don't agree but the Jets need a RB. Betts is the most likely person to go.

You're right, I don't agree, we don't have a viable back up and even Zorn has said that he could use both Betts and Portis on the field at the same time.

Bloyd not only sucks balls but he's one ugly SOB.

PFT says Vilma is most likely a Lion. I think the Skins could get Robertson for a 3rd this yeaar. I like Dyson as a vet backup.

"Dewayne Robertson has been nothing short of a bust since he's been drafted. I remember to the day, when they took him, Herm came out and said he was like Warren Sapp with speed. Clearly, he's nothing close to it. The popular move among Gang Green fans is to get him out of there and bring in a guy who can contain the gaps and stop the run."

This is from the Jets website. Yea, let's give up a third for him, and a fourth next year + $10 million garaunteed and $30 over 6 years and we can have another Bloyd, this time on the D-line.

*guaranteed

Desmond Howard, Michael Westbrook, Taylor Jacobs. Darnerian McCouldn't

Yeah, sure, draft a WR.

Posted by: corkczar | February 26, 2008 08:20 PM

Don't forget Rod Gardner. He was awesome.

Posted by: countystyle | February 26, 2008 08:52 PM

None of these are on Vinnie. Gibbs, Spurrier, Schottenheimer, Casserly. Not a one was a Vinnie pick.

So do the Skins play a two gap or one gap D? Just because he doesn't fit a particluar style of D doesn't mean he can't play. He might be a bust. I'm not saying they should trade for him, but from what I've read, he is a better player as a one gap (3 technique) player. Check the ESPN and Sportingnews player bio.

Salisbury Done at ESPN

"It's very deceptive, but if you look closely, you can see that Antwaan hasn't lost a step or two, he's actually taking two to the left, then three to the right, THEN one forward."

Kost, I was about to say something along those lines. Way to beat me to it.

Skins need to get a PR with their #21 pick. I mean look at the Bears...

NFL years
Robertson started all 16 games during his rookie season (2003), recording 43 tackles and 1.5 sacks. He was the first Jets defensive player to start every game in his rookie season since Mo Lewis in 1991.

Defensive Stats
Year Team G Total Tkl Ast Sacks Int Yds Avg Lg TD Pass Def
2003 New York Jets 16 43 34.0 9 1.5 0 0 0.0 0 0 0
2004 New York Jets 16 52 36.0 16 3 0 0 0.0 0 0 0
2005 New York Jets 13 43 27.0 16 3.5 0 0 0.0 0 0 1
2006 New York Jets 16 62 36.0 26 2.5 0 0 0.0 0 0 0
2007 New York Jets 16 57 36.0 21 4 0 0 0.0 0 0 0
TOTAL 77 257 169.0 88 14.5 0 0 0.0 0 0 1

In 2004 he played in all 16 games, totaling 52 tackles and 3 sacks. He had 7 tackles in the Jets' 20-17 overtime Wild Card playoff victory on the road against the San Diego Chargers.

In 2005 he played in 13 games, tallying 43 tackles, 3.5 sacks and 1 pass breakup. He missed the first game of his career in Week 15, due to an injured thigh.

On November 14, 2006 Robertson was named the AFC Defensive Player of the Week for Week 10. He had six tackles and a sack in the Jets' Week 10 win over the New England Patriots.

[edit] Measurables
6'1
317 pounds
4.85 40 yard dash [1]
20 Wonderlic score

Doesn't seem too bad. Again don't know much about him. I'm always wary when his teams site says he's a bust but that could be to smooth over the release.

Wow. I'm not sure, but I think somebody has been hit with the stupid stick.

er uh, trade talks

I would like to know what the Redskins front office learned from this free agency hire. Reports were consistent that this player had club house and on-field problems, as well as potential.

I wish I could find a job with that kind of resume and get that kind of contract.

So do the Skins play a two gap or one gap D? Just because he doesn't fit a particluar style of D doesn't mean he can't play. He might be a bust. I'm not saying they should trade for him, but from what I've read, he is a better player as a one gap (3 technique) player. Check the ESPN and Sportingnews player bio.

Posted by: mdvj | February 26, 2008 09:29 PM

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/2008/02/26/2008-02-26_jets_dewayne_robertson_on_block.html

Where are all the regulars? Bunch of hacks adding their 1.5 cents.

ESPN Scouts Inc. Report on Dewayne Robertson

Grade: 68 | Key
Alert: None

Comment: Robertson is a short, low, center of gravity type player with good athleticism and instincts. He plays the nose tackle position in the newly installed Eric Mangini defense and does not have the ideal size to hold the point. He is tough and competitive but is not the space eater that normally plays this position in the 3-4 defensive scheme. He feels pad pressure well and can find the level of the ball effectively. Robertson can hold the point versus single blocks but is not great to anchor versus the double team. Robertson is best when on the move using his quickness and agility. He is most effective to stunt and penetrate gaps as he does not play stout and can get driven out of lanes. He has decent hand use to leverage blockers but is inconsistent to disengage effectively. Robertson does not get much push as an interior bull rusher and needs to pressure the quarterback with quickness and effort. Robertson marks up solid numbers every season and has been a durable player with 61 starts in four seasons. He plays with a great motor and has some tools as a defensive lineman but may not fit the pure nose tackle stature in the 3-4 defensive scheme.

$0.0125

Desmond Howard, Michael Westbrook, Taylor Jacobs. Darnerian McCouldn't

Yeah, sure, draft a WR.

Posted by: corkczar | February 26, 2008 08:20 PM

Don't forget Rod Gardner. He was awesome.

Posted by: countystyle | February 26, 2008 08:52 PM

None of these are on Vinnie. Gibbs, Spurrier, Schottenheimer, Casserly. Not a one was a Vinnie pick.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 26, 2008 09:29 PM

Taylor Jacobs was a Vinny pick. Spurrier argued against him. wanted defense.

Wasn't Lloyd a Gibbs matter/selection/fixation?

Loved JG; but let's face it, he pulled some knucklehead moves. They all do; but his were super-sized.

Scamp

How does Robertson compare to Griff? The next DT will be taking his place soon so he needs to have at least the same production.

Taylor Jacobs was a Vinny pick. Spurrier argued against him. wanted defense.

Posted by: Original_etrod | February 26, 2008 09:51 PM

Wrong. Spurrier argued in favor of him. They passed on him in the first round.

Wasn't Lloyd a Gibbs matter/selection/fixation?

Loved JG; but let's face it, he pulled some knucklehead moves. They all do; but his were super-sized.

Posted by: SteveMG | February 26, 2008 09:53 PM

Nope, Al Saunders, see previous post.

Wasn't Lloyd a Gibbs matter/selection/fixation?

Posted by: SteveMG | February 26, 2008 09:53 PM

He was Al Saunders boy. See scamp's 8:03 post above.

Griffs recent stats and totals:

Recent Career Tackles Sacks Interceptions Misc
Year Team G Solo Ast Total Sack YdsL Int Yds IntTD DefTD FFum PD Sfty
2005 Washington 13 34 1 35 4.0 15 1 0 0 0 1 2 0
2006 Washington 14 39 11 50 1.0 9 0 0 0 0 1 2 0
2007 Washington 16 28 14 42 2.5 16 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Career Totals (Full) 118 294 94 388 26.0 161 1 0 0 0 3 22 0

Robertsons are posted earlier. Remember, they play in different systems (4-3 to 3-4 so...)

I was looking for a bit at the USA today salary database. Raised a question for me: are we being just as fooled by the bling as the FA are...giving DV credit for opening the wallet, etc when perhaps that isn't even true.

Specifically, the USA today table lists $ out the door in real payroll - what the clubs actually spent on players payroll each year, without all the weird salary cap stuff and amortizations and all of that.

I had assumed that the Redskins would be spending on payroll far and away the most. But here is what I think I found just looking at the Jints and the Iggles and Cows:

1) Eagles spent exactly the same amount as us ($670 MM over 7 yrs that the database has)
2) Giants were slightly lower- about 5% ($633 MM)
3) Cows were slightly lower too - about 4% ($644 MM)
4) Just for Redcoat checked the Fins- same number of Lombardis but at least they spent 10% less ($600 MM)

The problem here is that we routinely leave $13 MM 'off the field' for dead cap based on 5 yr avg - have led the league there. Given that this is a rough approximation of salary overage in-year, we actually spend about 10-15% less than most teams on actual talent on the team.

As a Bengals follower I was actually surprised - even netting out the Bengals $2-4 MM dead cap the Redskins spend less than the Bengals on actual working players by about $3 MM per year. Same with the Cardinals. And the Browns and the Raiders....as a Bengals fan I will tell you that this is not good company.

More to follow but thanks for the link on this...

Thanks Scamp. I think this might be someone they are looking at.

Well said clearycommerce, bad picks/ trades, and then cuts kills our deadcap space. It's gotta change.

Well said clearycommerce, bad picks/ trades, and then cuts kills our deadcap space. It's gotta change.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 26, 2008 10:03 PM

One very good reason to use our draft picks instead of trading them. Develop our own instead of paying big $ for someone elses.

Mea culpa: Saunders not Gibbs is the culprit.

Man, this wasn't a shaky move, not a bad move, not a questionable move, it was an absolute horrific move.

It would be nice to keep the ones that deserve to stay instead of going after someone else's too. Pierce and Smoot never should've left. At least we got one back.

WE are aggressive but misguided, we waste resources because we don't have the GM evaluator, team builder...instead we have the boy owner and the Vinny.... the robertson potential trade is another opportunity for them to evaluate ( i have always thought it should easier to evaluate pro talent than college talent, but what do I know) anyway is he a bust or can he play in our system, what price to pay , when to say no, in other words evaluate it and make a good decision that helps your team..... i would be vary wary of giving up too much in either picks or salary ( or in our case both) I would like my cast offs from other teams cheap and hungry to prove their former employer wrong......

The Panthers are going to sign RB Stephen Davis this week, so he can retire with his hometown team. Davis' agent confirmed the move Monday night, and an announcement by the team is expected soon. -- Rock Hill Herald

Mock 1 FA for the Skins

Safety - The Skins need vet help. Erick Coleman - Jets

CB - They need a vet to be the 3rd guy. Drayton Florence - Chargers

OL - This is an obvious need. Jacob Bell (G/T) - Titans

DL - Again an obvious need. Tommy Kelly - Raiders

I think B. Lloyd is one guy I can assure you will not blow-up somewhere eles.

The guy is just not that good.

Pertinent point from the Post article:

Lloyd, who could not be reached to comment, was designated a June 1 cut for salary cap purposes, executive vice president Vinny Cerrato said, which means his salary cap figure of $4.2 million will drop to $1.8 million on June 1. (Lloyd will count $5.5 million in dead cap space in 2009.)

If it weren't for what they're saying, I'd think that they were indeed going after a FA or two. But if they are going for a trade or two, that could be why they are clearing cap space. This worries me because it could mean trading away draft picks. It also worries me because we need an additional infusion of youth. Got to get younger. Come on, they made Vinnie semi-GM, let's see him pick some players in the draft.

Which is worse, his play on the field or his rapping?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qAgbqeNOvsw&feature=related

I think he called me a cracker

Solution,

Danny boy, give me half of what you paid Lloyd, i'll take you in the back and kick you in the balls!!!! ( little Vegas Vacation, I couldn't help myself!)

If you type Brandon Lloyd into youtube there are more videos of him rapping than playing football. He got his $10 mil from Danny and is convinced he is going to make it in hip hop so he will never amount to much in the NFL in my assessment

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Xpn_YiG-RJU&feature=related

This clip is particularly funny because he raps about how hard his neighborhood is. wikipedia says he went to high school in Blue Springs Missouri. I hear that ranks up there with Compton when it comes to street violence.

Just for kicks I looked up the numbers for Blue Springs (income, crime, etc, you know how I like to research stuff). It's pretty Disneylandish, like 3 murders in 7-8 years. That's hard folks.

scamp,
you sure hes not talking about how hard the fedex bench is?

whats all this talk about trading w/ the jets? the only people willing to trade for their dt is denver and there about to get their man from detroit. skins should wait till the jets are forced to cut him b/c of his monster cap #. vilma on the other hand is worth a mid level pick. hes a perfect replacement for rocky mac this year and can slide to strong side when washington is done ( which might already be the case ). i am always in favor of keeping our picks but for this player who is younger than 25, i make an exception. i also make an exception for l fitz b/c he is under 25 and has proven to be a stud.

as far as free agents, briggs is a good replacement for rocky but when rocky comes back him and briggs are both capable of playing only one position so it creates a cluster fukc. Mccariens just got cut and he is a big reciever w/ huge upside and he wont get much $$$. cromartie is a real good choice at corner and there are lots of good o lineman. they should sign 3 or 4 of the 2nd and 3rd tier o lineman to finally get depth since jansen and thomas are fragile and returning from major injuries.

None of these are on Vinnie. Gibbs, Spurrier, Schottenheimer, Casserly. Not a one was a Vinnie pick.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 26, 2008 09:29 PM

First of all you don't know who had what input any more than I do, but except for the year when Schott got Vinnie fired, and after Snyder unwisely rehired him, the picks were on Vinnie's watch.

If Vinnie and his scouting staff just fed the input to the overburdened Gibbs, it was the sort of input that led to HIS evaluations and decisions. Funny, when Beatherd was there, Gibbs didn't make many bad calls.

What the team needs is a talented GM, not Danny's Raquet ball boy. It doesn't need a Duopoly of Vinny and dan, it needs a dictator who knows what he is doing.

The team needs a man who will put his stamp on the team. Nope, Vinny's been on the bridge ever since the ship started sinking more than a decade ago. He'd probably try to weasel out of the responsibility for the ongoing series of mediocrities, underachievers and disasters, but he gets the lion's share of the blame.

Even with the good picks--samuels, LL, Cooley--this one step forward, two steps back personnel acquisition approach will never make the Redskins anything other than also rans. Look at the Giants, look at Dallas, hell, even look at the Iggles.

last post should have said florence not cromartie

Looks like ffloyd's website is undergoing some "updates."

Bet he's raking in some serious hits tonight. Too bad anyone who visits his site will leave disappointed. That's a funny little ironic parallel.

And the irony is delicious.

I know it doesn't tell the whole story, because it doesn't include the players we added in exchange for the traded #1 picks and so forth, but it's sobering to review the draft history from the '80s.

http://www.thehogs.net/History/draftHistory2.php

I think Beathard was GM through the '88 draft? From '84 on those drafts -- his drafts -- are for the most part horrific.

But look at '81! Oh my. May, Grimm, and Grant. Dexter. Charlie Brown. And way down in the 11th round... Clint Didier. On such a foundation were championships won. *sigh*

Er, 12th round for Didier.

Anyhow...

Yes we did not have any 1st round picks after 1983. Seemed to do better with late round O line.

The drafts the last 2 years have been better then most up here.

The best thing about Lloyd being cut is stupid bloggers will not be able to say "give Lloyd and chance." The are left with trade Betts and JC.

mul, I have been among the stupid bloggers you cite, suggesting that maybe Zorn would give Lloyd a chance, since he (Z Man) wasn't here for the bad stuff. I didn't believe Lloyd was going to turn it around last season, but I was willing to believe it this year in a new regime. But it now seems that Lloyd's getting cut was a foregone conclusion. So, okay. I've moved on.

As for what I'm "left with," I'm sure I'll find something to talk about the rest of the way. Something really, really stupid.

Wow - I was just looking at USA Today's NFL salary database and was cutting players (if I were GM), and came up with $26M in cuts. Then as if by magic, the Skins cut Lloyd! They should cut the top 6 earners in cap value, and take the hit this year. They have no 1st round draft picks, should NOT add free agents, and should just bite the bullet this year and next. Get the cap numbers down, get back in the draft game, and then trade down to get more good players instead of trying to get great players early in the draft. This assumes they know what they're doing. I don't, but I'm not a GM.

Posted by: bfjam | February 26, 2008 07:42 PM

Be careful, I suggested something similar last week and got crucified on this blog...

Desmond Howard, Michael Westbrook, Taylor Jacobs. Darnerian McCouldn't

Yeah, sure, draft a WR.

Posted by: corkczar | February 26, 2008 08:20 PM

Don't forget Rod Gardner. He was awesome.

None of these are on Vinnie. Gibbs, Spurrier, Schottenheimer, Casserly. Not a one was a Vinnie pick.

Posted by: talent_evaluator | February 26, 2008 09:29 PM

First of all you don't know who had what input any more than I do, but except for the year when Schott got Vinnie fired, and after Snyder unwisely rehired him, the picks were on Vinnie's watch.

Posted by: corkczar | February 27, 2008 12:36 AM

Corkczar--

Were you drinking last night?

How in the world could Desmond Howard and Michael Westbrook be "on Vinnie's watch"? Howard was drafted in 1992; Westbrook in 1995. Snyder bought the team in 1999.

Rod Gardner and Darnerian McCants were both drafted in 2001 by Marty Schottenheimer. (For those of you hankering for a "tall receiver" keep these names in mind.) Remember that Snyder wanted to draft Santana Moss, who went to the Jets right after we took Jacobs.

Your general point of incoherence in personnel selection is right. In the case of Jacobs, after the draft Spurrier, Snyder, and Cerrato were each blaming the others, so we really don't know.

Good Riddance to B. Lloyd. If pro sports has demonstrated anything, any pro athlete with rap star aspirations is not good for your team. Shaq is the only exception, but you can still make the argument that he never won a championship until he ditched the rap thing.

Back to B. Lloyd, his acquisition was typical Danny. I don't care which coach wanted him, when you're warned that the guy is a turd, you're supposed to pass. For all the talk of "charting a new course" with Gibbs at the helm, he's sure gone a long way away from the Gibbs Way.

Think about it: this team's identity was carved from the great influences of George Allen and Joe Gibbs. Toughness, heart, football smarts. Physical talent is at the bottom of the list. Those guys went to Super Bowls with guys that were late round draft picks or cast-off veterans from other teams. The Skins were a team you could pull for because they were never the juggernaut Goliath everyone roots against (like the Patriots) that has a bunch of overhyped stars and 1st round picks.

Now they're the team that everyone hates because they're the antithesis of those fine teams of the 70's and 80's. They're all about sizzle and media glare and they seldom give you anything substantive to talk about when it comes to the win column. It's just so depressing to see a team so rich with heritage go so far away from the identity that made it one of the NFL's most storied franchises.

Redskins News 'N Notes
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

John Keim
WarpathInsiders.com Feb 26, 2008

John Keim gives an update on the happenings around Redskins Park and his take on the FA situation.

Item: Brandon Lloyd is cut.

Reaction: Hallelujah! OK, let's not go too far overboard, but this is complete addition by subtraction. In my time covering the Redskins (since 1994), Lloyd ranks among the top few most disliked players, along with guys like Alvin Harper and Michael Westbrook. But Lloyd was so unproductive that his being a ''punk'', as one teammate described him, made him an even bigger bust. He did not fit in here; nor did he fit in with the 49ers. Really can't imagine him fitting in on most teams. But at least in SF he was productive. Lloyd will count $4.2 million against the cap this season.

Result: This has no bearing on the Redskins' offseason plans. They wanted to sign a receiver, or draft one. They could opt for D.J. Hackett, but his agent said that the Redskins haven't come up in their internal discussions. Javon Walker is damaged goods and likely will be released, so why trade for him?

Item: Rock Cartwright and Todd Collins will test the market.

Reaction: To be expected. Both want a chance for more playing time than the Redskins can promise. Rock really sounded conflicted when I spoke with him Monday. He wants to be here; he wants to carry the ball more and knows that won't happen here. He looks at himself as a Redskin. I think there's part of him that still feels slighted from the T.J. Duckett trade. The Redskins will not make him an offer before free agency.

As for Collins, it might be best if he goes elsewhere. If Jason Campbell is really going to be The Guy, then it's probably best if Collins is gone. Imagine what will be said and written if Collins outperforms Campbell this summer, yet the job already belongs to Campbell. The players would have a fit. Might be best to trade for Trent Dilfer and develop another young QB as a No. 3.

Item: Free agency begins Friday.

Reaction: By now, everyone knows that the Redskins have said they won't be big players in free agency. It's not just lip service. According to one league source who has spoken to a high-ranking Redskins official about this, they will make their offer and not bid against themselves as they've done in the past. Many times, we might add. It's not just because of the salary cap, either.

Though they're not in great shape, they've never really been in the best of positions when it comes to the cap. And they've always found a way to make it work in the past. But there's a real belief that this year will be different. We'll see. It also helps that this is a poor free agent class. And the things they need (receiver, defensive end, offensive tackle) they can find in the draft.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Story URL: http://was.scout.com/2/732442.html

T_E,

You have to believe that Jacobs was a Spurrier pick because of the Florida connection. Not to mention Spurrier didn't give too much of a damn about the defensive side of the ball.

I seem to remember the 'Skins didn't have a 1st rounder that year because of the Coles deal (another great FO move). Thus, the second rounder was their first pick of that draft, and I seem to recall the talk being that Mike Doss was the guy they were set to take there until we were dropped with the Jacobs bomb. So we had a bum reciever and more Ohalete at safety.

Is anyone else depressed?

4th,

Thanks for putting up the Keim piece. I wonder what the cap implications are.

Keim says "Lloyd will count $4.2 million against the cap this season."

Jasno in the print edition says, "His release, long anticipated, does not save Washington any immediate salary cap space, with the free agency and trade period beginning at 12:01 a.m. Friday, but will create additional room this June. Lloyd, who could not be reached to comment, was designated a June 1 cut for salary cap purposes, executive vice president Vinny Cerrato said, which means his salary cap figure of $4.2 million will drop to $1.8 million on June 1. (Lloyd will count $5.5 million in dead cap space in 2009.)"

I guess they could both be right.

Brownwood,

Your post makes no sense B Lloyd was typical Danny, Gibbs was in charge he made the call I do not care who was giving him the information if Gibbs is so in to character guys then he should have said no.

I agree the Gibbs way as you put it was great the first time around the difference then however is there was no cap and no FA, plus we had a GM.

Gibbs 2.0 was nothing like 1.0 he went after quick fixes he made stupid trades and he coached scared, if there was any coach in the NFL that did not have to coach scared it was Gibbs there was no way he would get fired.

I am glad to see the FO bashers are back I thought we had moved on.

Anyway Scamp,

How did the CB's do anyone worth taking at 21? I still say we should go DE.

I still hope they make an offer to Antwan Odom (DE/Titans) and that he would consider DC a nice place to play football. And for the record now, I am pro-D.J. Hackett and anti-Chad Johnson for the Skins. [Results may vary with other teams.]

Second choice for WR in FA would be the Cards number 3, Bryant Johnson ... with an offer of number 3 money (to be the third guy behind Santana and ARE).

Your post makes no sense B Lloyd was typical Danny, Gibbs was in charge he made the call I do not care who was giving him the information if Gibbs is so in to character guys then he should have said no.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 07:04 AM

Why does everyone here pile on Gibbs for personel when Danny is every bit as involved? Snyder has had his grimey mitts on the player acquisitions here (sans the Marty smackdown he got in '01) since Day 1! Sure, Gibbs was a party to it, but do you think Casserly or Beathard would have even put Lloyd's name on Gibb's desk just because he made a nice one handed catch in SF?

Gibbs has tried his hand at troubled players before and did well (Manley, Riggins), but never before Lloyd did he get a guy that was a locker room cancer. So I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt here.

dcsween,

Jasno keeps putting that CJ thing in every story I have heard nothing from anyone else that says they are going after CJ, he also floated Moss in his story today when it is being reported by everyone that Moss is staying in New England. I agree that Hackett would be a good pickup. I do not no much about Odom whats his stats/story.

Wow - I was just looking at USA Today's NFL salary database and was cutting players (if I were GM), and came up with $26M in cuts. Then as if by magic, the Skins cut Lloyd! They should cut the top 6 earners in cap value, and take the hit this year.

Posted by: bfjam | February 26, 2008 07:42 PM

Just for fun, we went through the same little exercise that you did. (Because of the new restructures of Samuels and Jansen, the list may be different than yours.) Here are the players to be cut and the amount of salary saved for each in 2008:

Portis - $5.049 million
Springs - $5.000 million
Washington - $4.425 million
Griffin - $4.200 million
Moss - $3.250 million
Rabach - $2.750 million

Those player cuts will save a total of $24.674 million in 2008 salary. That sounds pretty good, right?

There is one problem, however. To cut each of these players, their previously amortized bonuses have to be charged off as well. (These amounts are also known as "dead cap hits".) The dead cap hit for each of these players is as follows:

Portis - $8.785 million
Springs - $4.968 million
Washington - $4.041 million
Griffin - $4.200 million
Moss - $7.750 million
Rabach - $2.200 million

The total dead cap hit for these players is $32.269 million.

The end result is that instead of lowering the cap number, you have instead RAISED the cap number, by approximately $7.6 million for 2008.

As there is insufficient space to absorb that extra amount, you then have the choice to either: a) cut additional players to lower the total payroll without increasing the dead cap hit; or b) perform a few accounting tricks to push some of the additonal dead cap liability into 2009. The easiest way to accomplish (b) is to delay some of the player cuts until after June 1, 2008. However, any dead cap money shifted into 2009 will decrease the number of player cuts you can make in 2009, due to the same formula (salary saved less than dead cap hit).

Of course, there are other adjustments necessary, as there has to be enough cap room allocated to sign all draft picks, regardless of which rounds they are drafted. Also, there will have to be some cap space made available to sign cheap free agents to replace the players who have been cut.

"The bottom line" is that, in order to begin getting the salary cap in with your plan, you are forced to release six starting players and replace them with rookies or cheap free agents. While that may be fiscally responsible from the perspective of the salary cap, such a move would undoubtedly have an adverse effect on the team's performance on the field.

While the ultimate goal of the plan is sound, the related costs to the team's overall financial picture (lost revenues from lower ticket sales, ancillary sales, advertising, etc.) is likely to be significant. The possible indirect costs of such a radical plan may also possibly include the loss of talent in free agency and additional deterioration in performance due to player dissension/unhappiness, resulting in more dramatic losses in organizational revenues. The long-term effects on the franchise would most certainly be negative.

Happy slashing!

I still can't believe we signed that punk, the endearing word teammates used to describe BLloyd.

It's great that he's gone, but I won't be able to get over this for awhile. For starters, he'll count dead cap for at least 2 years (will probably count for as large as our rookie pool of money this year). Secondly, this was without a doubt the worst FA move in the history of the NFL. Not just because of his production, or lack thereof, but because we didn't even trade a good player in '06. We didn't even sign a good guy like ARE is. We traded for an average football, a well-known "cancer" in the league, and everyone knew it but us. To top it off, we gave up 2 mid-round picks, 10 mill in bonus money, WHEN WE DIDN'T EVEN HAVE TO. We ripped up his contract and gave him a new one.

It will be hard for me to EVER get over deals like Lloyd and Arch. One can only hope that the guy responsible for these moves is out of a job, but it appears that you only get promoted for having the single worst free agency in NFL history in '06.

Hey, at least he went on the internet and found Zorn, a guy who reminds me of Gary Busey on the red carpet at the Oscars.

Brownwood,

I am not ganging up on Gibbs but he was in charge and if you read earlier post it was Saunders who floated Lloyd's name to Gibbs not Vinny/Dan. I am a realiest and if you people are going to say that all the good moves in personel over the last 4 years are because of Gibbs and all the bad moves are because of Dan/Vinny, then I am going to tell you that you are wrong.

Hopefully he can purchase some sunglasses with all that money so the glare off the SuperDome will not make him miss a pass!

POSTED 10:42 p.m. EST, February 26, 2008

ESPN PUTS THE STAKE IN SALISBURY

As you likely already know, Sean Salisbury is out at ESPN. (I was out of pocket when the e-mail from ESPN announcing the departure came through the line.)

The move was, in our view, long overdue. Per USA Today, Salisbury's contract had expired. He likely sealed his fate with that disgraceful on-air dissing of John Clayton last month, during which Salisbury called Clayton the "Cryptkeeper."

What an idiot Salisbury is although Clayton does look liked he died three years ago.

kmdp4,

I am not giving Gibbs a free pass, he's at best a party to the misadventures in free agency, at worst he's responsible. But it sounds to me like you want to lay all the Lloyd acquisition and everyone else who was a bum the last 4 years on Gibbs. I disagree with that thinking. The last 4 years, for every Lloyd and Archuleta, there was a Griffin, Washington, Springs and Moss. You're a "realist", so you have to admit that the free agent pickups in the Gibbs 2.0 era are far and away better than anything Danny has done in the years prior. At the end of the day, the only constant in this farce FO is Danny and Vinny.

kmdp,

I was the biggest Gibbs basher of them all, but it's hard for me to believe that Gibbs gave his full blessing on this one. I mean, unless the guy didn't pick up the phone once to hear what a jerk this guy was, and still is, no way does Gibbs give the okay on his end.

And as we've seen in recent weeks, Gibbs' blessings (Grilliams) apparently don't hold water over Vinny's blessings (Zorn and everyone else).

But it still wouldn't shock me if SF pulled the wool over coach Joe's eyes, said what a great guy he was, and Gibby didn't look for feedback elsewhere. Gibby back in football was almost as confused as Ronald Reagan (god rest his soul) was during his final days.

"The bottom line" is that, in order to begin getting the salary cap in with your plan, you are forced to release six starting players and replace them with rookies or cheap free agents. While that may be fiscally responsible from the perspective of the salary cap, such a move would undoubtedly have an adverse effect on the team's performance on the field.

While the ultimate goal of the plan is sound, the related costs to the team's overall financial picture (lost revenues from lower ticket sales, ancillary sales, advertising, etc.) is likely to be significant. The possible indirect costs of such a radical plan may also possibly include the loss of talent in free agency and additional deterioration in performance due to player dissension/unhappiness, resulting in more dramatic losses in organizational revenues. The long-term effects on the franchise would most certainly be negative.

Happy slashing!

Posted by: TheCrickets007 | February 27, 2008 07:48 AM

Or the financial armegeddon you're predicting could happen as a result of the high salaries/expectations and low results. I'd sacrifice 2-3 wins a year if it means this team stops putting a band-aid over a gunshot wound.

Brownwood,

I never said that Gibbs did not make some good choices but if he gets the credit he gets the blame as well that is how it goes.

Now I am not discussing the FO anymore in this fashion most of us on the Blog have moved on from bashing or defending the FO. We are now discussing the draft anf FA so if you would like to discuss any of that lets do it.

When I heard that Lloyd was cut, I had a feeling that the backlash would be revisiting EVERY bad move the Redskins have made, going all the way back to trading for Trung Candidate. The highlight, or lowlight if you will is RB stating he it would be difficult to EVER get over the team signing Arch, and Lloyd. Wow...just wow.....

Here, I'll top that for dramatic effect, I don't know if I'm ever going to get over the team drafting Andre Johnson.....how did I do....

I'd sacrifice 2-3 wins a year if it means this team stops putting a band-aid over a gunshot wound.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 27, 2008 08:12 AM

Drastic roster slashing as originally proposed by "bfjam" has had severe adverse effects on other franchises in the past. The most notable examples were San Fran (1999: 4-12), and Tennessee (2004: 5-11). Both of those organizations had stable and experienced coaching staffs.

I'd sacrifice 2-3 wins a year if it means this team stops putting a band-aid over a gunshot wound.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 27, 2008 08:12 AM

Drastic roster slashing as originally proposed by "bfjam" has had severe adverse effects on other franchises in the past. The most notable examples were San Fran (1999: 4-12), and Tennessee (2004: 5-11). Both of those organizations had stable and experienced coaching staffs.

(Mariucci and Fisher, respectively.)

I'm not really sure how 2 playoff appearances in 3 years really qualifies as a gunshot wound. And sacrificing 2-3 wins a year turns your team from a perennial playoff contender into a perennial lottery team (using NBA terms).

"They should cut the top 6 earners in cap value, and take the hit this year."

That's an idea: just as we've finally put ourselves in position to be contenders, blow everything up, start from scratch, and maybe we can be in this exact position 5 years down the road. Brilliant.

Bye Bye BLloyd....wow....the air smells better all ready.

Time for my mantra.

Vilma seems worthy of giving up a pic as he's still young. And we NEED LB depth. Maybe a 3rd this year, 5th next. Doesnt sound to bad. Eh...F that. Build from within.

But still.....Vilma is a great LB. Id rather have him than Briggs.

Dyson would be a good sign for us. If we got Vilma and Dyson/Florrence, we could use the pics on OL/DL/WR.

HAIL!!!

Now I am not discussing the FO anymore in this fashion most of us on the Blog have moved on from bashing or defending the FO. We are now discussing the draft anf FA so if you would like to discuss any of that lets do it.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 08:16 AM

Yeah, that's a little hard to do when the biggest story in Redskin Nation today is the release of the biggest bust in recent Redskin history (at least Westbrook and Canidate scored touchdowns)...

We can move to FA and the draft. Although, I'll admit that it's hard to jacked for it when I know that A) we're not going to be players in FA, and B) I have an overwhelming feeling that the FO is going to f__k this draft up.

That's an idea: just as we've finally put ourselves in position to be contenders, blow everything up, start from scratch, and maybe we can be in this exact position 5 years down the road. Brilliant.

Posted by: psps23 | February 27, 2008 08:35 AM

Dude, stop crowing about the 2 playoffs in 3 years thing. The team has too much talent to just squeak into the playoffs as a 6th seed needing a long win streak at the end to secure it. At that's not mentioning a 5-11 crap-out in '06.

This team is not even close to being a contender. Rookie coaches don't typically do well starting out, especially ones who aren't getting help from the FO. Two key starters on defense are coming off of serious knee injuries, and this team doesn't have the depth to go the distance. And I haven't even mentioned the fact the team plays in a tough division. This team MAYBE makes the playoffs in '08 if it's in the NFC West. Buckle up and prepare for 8-8.

Watched some you-tube stuff on Jordy Nelson, and the Redskins need to get this cat in the 2nd. If they go DL/OL in the first, then Nelson needs to be taken in the second. This kid has great skills.

As far as any trades go, no to Robertson, and no to Vilma, thanks though....Robertson is a bust, so why would ANYONE want to trade for that guy?

By the way, everyone forget about Vilma. The guy has no cartilage in his knee and he's one hit away from being LaVar Arrington 2.0.

"Dude, stop crowing about the 2 playoffs in 3 years thing. The team has too much talent to just squeak into the playoffs as a 6th seed needing a long win streak at the end to secure it. At that's not mentioning a 5-11 crap-out in '06"

Sure, until you factor in the death of the best player on the team, the offensive line being decimated by injuries(2 starters being lost in the first 2 games), and the starting qb being lost for the year. Other than that TINY BIT of information you neglected to include, I'm 100% on board with you.

When you paint with broad strokes stuff like that can EASILY be brushed aside. However when you start to include those funny things called FACTS...the picture becomes a little more clear.

Brown, weren't you the cat who said the Redskins weren't a playoff team?? Despite the indesputable fact that they MADE the playoffs.

Gregg,

I am through with Brownwood he only post's when he wants to bash the front office he has nothing else to comment on. So moving on again.

I think Jordy Nelson is going to be a player and I hope we can pick him up in the 2nd round.

Did you see any CB worthy of the 21st pick I still say go with DE.

I hope Danny & Vinny take this as a lesson
not to put much stock in free agents or trades. To build a good team takes a lot of work and some luck. No quick fixes.

Gregg,

You and your facts you should be ashamed of yourself.

Greg

Nelson will likely be there in the 3rd round. He's quicker than fast. I think he ran a 4.52 at the combine. There are also questions about the offensive system he was in college inflating his stats.

Also I'm not convinced that RObertson is a bust. He played nose tackle last year which is not his thing yet he had a decent year. He may not be worthy of the 4th overall pick the Jets used. However, he might be worth a 3rd this year.

Defensive Stats
Year Team G Total Tkl Ast Sacks Int Yds Avg Lg TD Pass Def
2003 New York Jets 16 43 34.0 9 1.5 0 0 0.0 0 0 0
2004 New York Jets 16 52 36.0 16 3 0 0 0.0 0 0 0
2005 New York Jets 13 43 27.0 16 3.5 0 0 0.0 0 0 1
2006 New York Jets 16 62 36.0 26 2.5 0 0 0.0 0 0 0
2007 New York Jets 16 57 36.0 21 4 0 0 0.0 0 0 0
TOTAL 77 257 169.0 88 14.5 0 0 0.0 0 0 1

lloyd was here before saunders. he was a gibbs favorite.

mdvj,

I have seen Jordy on film he is fast on the field in pads that is all that matters, check these videos out and you will see what I mean.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJyjHB0_agE

Punt return for a touchdown against Texas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek0ANQ8bRfo&feature=related

Burning Aqib Talib a projected first round corner.

Good news for you guys about Blloyd at last.

Shame about all the bickering!

Trying is flying is dying...

md, Nelson ran a 4.49 at the Combine, at 6'2.5, and 217 pounds. I think once that happened and guys like Malcolm Kelly running a 4.68, he opened a lot of eyes.

km, from everything I've read, this is a deep draft as far as the 2nd/3rd rounds are concerned. There doesn't seem to be a DE, Long/Gholston aside, who has seperated himself from the rest. Campbell can probably be had in the 3rd, or 4th round, lets see how Merling does at his pro-day.

I, personally, want no part of Robertson, not even for a 3rd.

Draft guys that will either start this year, or start next year. No trades. NONE...

Wilbon and others have intimated that Cerrato/Snyder were not responsible for all the bad trades made the last 4 years, that Gibbs and the coaches, for example, lead the charge for Lloyd, Archeleta, Portis (ggod player, bad trade), and Duckett. It'd be nice if Jason or someone else at the Post would look into this. Is Cerrato really a dope or has he never really been in charge?

That said, the idea of trading for Ocho Cinco is a terrible one... and that seems to be coming from Snyder/Cerrato. With other teams, the press usually is able to figure out who's responsible for what. Maybe the Skins make that impossible by being opaque. I'm just saying that it'd be nice to know more.

Ahh, brownwood, the ultimate pessimist comes back. I'm sorry, but I just saw a New York Giants team "squeak into the playoffs", go on a serious run to end the season, and pick up their Super Bowl rings at the end of January. And their catalyst for victory: a fresh, 1st-year defensive coordinator.

The truth is, ANY team can change their fortunes in one year. The Packers were 8-8 last year, and everybody was making fun of Brett Favre when he said he thought this was the most talented team he's every played on. They sure seemed like contenders this year to me. The Giants were perennial jokes, with Eli as the quarterback who couldn't step up in any big game, and a team with too much talent that far underachieved. Now they're world champions.

Everyone falls in love with the method of the Colts and the Patriots, seemingly great because they build through the draft. They're not great because they build through the draft. They're great because their talent evaluation is great, whether it's through the draft or other means. There are numerous other teams that build their rosters through draft picks, yet still end up in the cellar year after year. The Colts wouldn't look nearly as good if they had chose Ryan Leaf over Peyton Manning. The Patriots wouldn't look like the Patriots if someone had snatched Tom Brady in the 5th round instead of the 6th. It's about evaluation. Don't overpay for underachieving talent. And don't GIVE UP talent when it's not necessary.

We've got talent on this roster. You even say it yourself. Once these guys are unable to produce anymore, then it's time to pull the plug and start over. This team is nowhere near that point.

Until something a little more concrete comes out about the Redskins trading for Chad Johnson, I'm not putting much into that. Mainly, because the Bengals have said they're not trading him, and the PROHIBITIVE cap hit they would incur for doing so.

Again, I'm not trying to let facts skew my opinions...but....

Chris_zz

I agree with you points however I think the Ocho Stinko stuff is coming from Jasno he is the only one I have heard reporting that, and since he had no idea they were going to hire Zorn, I do not think he is getting credible information.

When I heard that Lloyd was cut, I had a feeling that the backlash would be revisiting EVERY bad move the Redskins have made, going all the way back to trading for Trung Candidate.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 27, 2008 08:16 AM

Trung Canidate? Heck, dude, corkczar was up here last night blaming Vinnie for Desmond Howard and Michael Westbrook. Why stop there? He is probably responsible, too, for lung cancer and halitosis.

lloyd was here before saunders. he was a gibbs favorite.

Posted by: rls1041 | February 27, 2008 09:13 AM

rls,

You've got the sequence wrong. Check scamp's post last night at 8:03:

"The rumored force behind this deal, as reported in 2007 by the
Washington Post, was Al Saunders. Saunders thought that Lloyd had
physical abilities that 99% of NFL receivers could only dream of. He
thought he could get his offense to the next level, beyond where it
was in Kansas City, if the Redskins could get their hands on Lloyd."

bubonic plague, athletes foot fungus, dry skin, boogers, jock itch, what else can we blame this guy for?

Damn you FACTS, DAMN YOU!!!!

I'm Facts. People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I enjoy ice cream and a nice pair of slacks. Years later, a doctor will tell me I have an I.Q. of 48 and that I am considered mentally retarded.

psps

Great points....I'll add my usual it starts with QB.... stability ....coaching ...leading to style of play.....evaluate talent for your roster that fits with your style ....become a consisttant winner.....continue to evaluate and develope talent that fits .....repeat

I'm Facts. People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late.

Posted by: gregmarino88 | February 27, 2008 09:37 AM

Facts, you're ALWAYS late. We can never find you the moment we need you so, in your absence, we fabricate. And, when you finally arrive, we don't like you at all. In your case, reverse the old saying. It's not "better late than never" but "better never than late."

POSTED 10:42 p.m. EST, February 26, 2008

ESPN PUTS THE STAKE IN SALISBURY

As you likely already know, Sean Salisbury is out at ESPN. (I was out of pocket when the e-mail from ESPN announcing the departure came through the line.)

The move was, in our view, long overdue. Per USA Today, Salisbury's contract had expired. He likely sealed his fate with that disgraceful on-air dissing of John Clayton last month, during which Salisbury called Clayton the "Cryptkeeper."

What an idiot Salisbury is although Clayton does look liked he died three years ago.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 08:04 AM

I never liked how Salisbury made fun of Clayton during the fact or fiction segments. I always seemed reminiscent of the jock picking on the nerd in high school.

Good riddance to Salisbury!

the idea of trading for Ocho Cinco is a terrible one... and that seems to be coming from Snyder/Cerrato.

Posted by: chris_zz | February 27, 2008 09:23 AM

Actually, that idea seems to be coming from Jasno.

I like Nelson too. Is he a 2nd rounder? I'm not feeling it. Here are some better prospects at the WR position

Kelly
Sweed
Doucet
Manningham
Devin Thomas
Deshawn Jackson
Andre Caldwell
Lavelle Hawkins
Donnie Avery

James Hardy
Harry Douglas

Or the financial armegeddon you're predicting could happen as a result of the high salaries/expectations and low results. I'd sacrifice 2-3 wins a year if it means this team stops putting a band-aid over a gunshot wound.

Posted by: brownwood26 | February 27, 2008 08:12 AM

If you think that cutting those 6 players will result in a 6 ot 7 win season, (9-3=6 9-2=7) you actaully may be a short bus kid. Try a 0 win season.

Good riddance to Salisbury!

Posted by: CBT | February 27, 2008 09:45 AM

I don't know how Sainsbury survived after walking through the halls showing female ESPN employees cellphone shots of his johnson.

Maybe Emmitt Smith can take over the Fact or Fiction segment. He can't even say 'cryptkeeper'.

Hardy has a bunch of baggage that he brings. He's done a 3 day stint in jail, so I'd prefer that the Redskins stay away from him.

Malcolm Kelly ran a 4.68 at the combine, but you'd rather take him? Some of those other guys are exactly what the Redskins have right now, small fast guys. I'd take Sweed in a heartbeat, but I'm not sure he's going to be there at 21. The cat from Mich. State interests me as well, mainly because of his versatility, WR/KR/PR.

Chris_zz
I agree with you points however I think the Ocho Stinko stuff is coming from Jasno he is the only one I have heard reporting that, and since he had no idea they were going to hire Zorn, I do not think he is getting credible information.
Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 09:31 AM

the idea of trading for Ocho Cinco is a terrible one... and that seems to be coming from Snyder/Cerrato.
Posted by: chris_zz | February 27, 2008 09:23 AM
Actually, that idea seems to be coming from Jasno.
Posted by: Original_etrod | February 27, 2008 09:53 AM

Jasno reported on rumors, and they were all backed up by Johnson shootong his mouth off about wanting a trade (to anyone, not just the skins) every time he got on tv or radio. Jasno did not fabricate it.

I never liked how Salisbury made fun of Clayton during the fact or fiction segments. I always seemed reminiscent of the jock picking on the nerd in high school.

Good riddance to Salisbury!

Posted by: CBT | February 27, 2008 09:45 AM

I'm with you on the good riddance part, however, about the only thing of any value SS ever added to the world was his trashing of Clayton.

Clayton is the one that really needs to go. He is at the forfront of the AFC is superior movment. If I go on ESPN.com and have to see one more article about his love for Payton Mannings balls and how beautiful they are I may end it all.

First of all...

WooHOO!!

Good Riddance to bad rubbish! I dont care what the cap hit was Lloyd leaving is best news I have heard in a long while..

dlhaze1, he didn't fabricate it, but he seems to be the only one perpetuating it. I'm not complaining; it makes great blog fodder.

dlhaze1,

I am not saying that johnson wanting to be traded is not true, I am saying that the Redskins wanting to trade for him is coming from Jasno.

PFT FREE AGENCY RANKINGS: QUARTERBACK
Posted by Mike Florio on February 27, 2008, 9:20 a.m.
It's time for our annual (give or take a year) effort to rank the next wave of free agents by projecting what we believe their guaranteed money should be.

First up, the quarterbacks.

1. Derek Anderson, Browns (RFA): $12 million.

2. Todd Collings, Redskins: $4 million.

3. Cleo Lemon, Dolphins: $3 million.

4. Byron Leftwich, Falcons: $2.5 million.

5. Josh McCown, Raiders: $2 million.

6. Quinn Gray, Jaguars: $2 million.

7. Daunte Culpepper, Raiders: $2 million.

8. Billy Volek, Chargers: $1.5 million.

The rumor is coming from everyone's agent using Washington as a player in negotiations in an attempt to get other teams to pay up (knowing Washington will over pay.)

Washington didn't do this last year and doesn't appear to be headed that way this year either. Agents have moved on to using Dallas in this role now, knowing that JJ has lost his mind along with that playoff game.

PFT.com
POSTED 9:03 p.m. EST, February 26, 2008

ASANTE SAMUEL SAID TO BE A "DONE DEAL" IN NEW ORLEANS

There's increasing chatter in league circles that the Saints have worked out a deal with cornerback Asante Samuel.

Yeah, it's tampering. But no one seems to care about that.

Samuel supposedly is looking for a contract with an average value in excess of $10 million per year.

It's great that he's gone, but I won't be able to get over this for awhile. For starters, he'll count dead cap for at least 2 years (will probably count for as large as our rookie pool of money this year). Secondly, this was without a doubt the worst FA move in the history of the NFL.

Posted by: RickyBobby | February 27, 2008 07:55 AM

Just catching up guys. I don't understand why people keep claiming that Bloyd was a free agent bust. HE WAS NOT A FREE AGENT. We traded to get him.

PFT.com

POSTED 8:57 p.m. EST, February 26, 2008

VILMA TO LIONS?

The New York Jets are shopping linebacker Jonathan Vilma, a 4-3 defender who has struggled in coach Eric Mangini's 3-4 system.

A league source tells us that the current favorites to land Vilma are the Lions.

Another question mark regarding Vilma is a knee injury that significantly limited him in 2007. If healthy, he's capable of creating real havoc.

Anyway Scamp,

How did the CB's do anyone worth taking at 21? I still say we should go DE.

Posted by: kmdp4 | February 27, 2008 07:31 AM

There are some good CB's in the draft. Cromartie was real fast and showed good technique, that Flowers kid from VT was good, Talib took some bashing but ultimately looked alright. Still don't think taking a CB in the 1st is the ticket though.

Bloyd was a free agent bust. HE WAS NOT A FREE AGENT. We traded to get him.

Posted by: scampbell1975 | February 27, 2008 10:13 AM

scamp,

As I recall it, B Lloyd was a Restricted Free Agent. The 49'ers tendered him at a level where we would have had to give them a second if we'd signed him. So, we shrewdly