Redskins Insider, by Jason La Canfora Redskins Insider

Positional Review - RB/FB

We'll get through every position before the draft - promise, been sidetracked with my hockey work - and figured we'd continue with the glamour boys after beginning with quarterback last week.

Clinton Portis is the favorite son of this owner, and Portis's sway and influence with former Coach Joe Gibbs was a frequent topic among players, particularly on defense (many bemoaned what they considered to be a double standard by the head coach and management for players like Portis and Chris Cooley, in terms of what they could get away with and what was deemed acceptable). Owner Daniel Snyder and his handpicked football man, Vinny Cerrato, raved about Portis during their interviews with coaching candidates, professing him to be a true franchise back and one of the best in the game. ( Of course, you could ask LaVar Arrington and a handful of others how quickly you can go from being the chosen one with owner to being on the outs).

The rest of the league will be watching to see if/when Portis puts together another full season. If/when he finds as way to be effective/healthy/conditioned in the first six weeks of the season. If/when he looks like a consistent home run hitter, capable of breaking off a long run. Of course, the erratic play of the injury-plagued offensive line had something to do with Portis's inconsistent 2007 as well.

But regardless, he's the bell cow with this regime, no doubt about it. Former running backs coach Earnest Byner used to campaign for a bigger role for Ladell Betts, and was a big supporter of Rock Cartwright - but Byner was shown the door and no doubt Portis will hold considerable sway with rookie head coach Jim Zorn. I'd bank on him getting every chance to the feature back and workhorse, for better or worse.

Betts is as solid as it comes in terms of a No. 2. Cartwright has produced in his very limited window of NFL carries.

This is a position of considerable depth with Cartwright back on the cheap. Personally, I think Marcus Mason could prove a capable backup or change-of-pace guy at some point as well, and also contribute in the return game. But it's awfully hard, if not impossible, to carry four tailbacks, particularly if the Redskins do finally establish a solid back-up fullback to Mike Sellers as well, which would eat up a roster spot. I like the re-signing of Pete Schmidt in that regard.

Several teams weighed claiming Mason off the practice squad last year, and perhaps a roster battle of sorts could develop between him and Cartwright (a favorite of mine, who I thought had a Pro Bowl season on special teams last year).

With all of that said, I can't see the Skins doing much of anything at running back in the draft, not with so many other needs. Maybe they take a look at a fullback in the late rounds. We'll look at wide receivers/tight ends tomorrow and the offensive line Friday, then breakdown the D next week.

By Jason La Canfora |  April 16, 2008; 12:44 PM ET
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Comments

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1st?

Posted by: vze2bnyf | April 16, 2008 12:53 PM

Looking down on the skins like i'll be doing at the end of 2008

Posted by: EaglesFanAdam | April 16, 2008 12:53 PM

Inconsistent 2007 season? Huh? JLC, you just love to criticize Portis.

Posted by: Lisa | April 16, 2008 12:53 PM

damn you, loseable type!

I demand a post ordering recount!!

Adam

Posted by: EaglesFanAdam | April 16, 2008 12:54 PM

Who cares if it's a position of strength? Let's do the Matt Millen thing and only draft running backs. And then throw 60% of the time.

Posted by: groundhogdayguy | April 16, 2008 12:54 PM

Let's get the beast fullback from WVU as a backup to Sellers and long-term replacement. Dude is straight animal.

Posted by: rmur23 | April 16, 2008 12:57 PM

Speaking of counting....we're at 180,810 posts. Back to fubball....

Posted by: Cindy | April 16, 2008 12:57 PM

Hopefully under Zorn they can scheme some zone blocking that Portis excels at so well. That is generally when he is going to break one. Also, I would like to see him catch more passes/screens as he does this better than he gets credit for. Any time he caught a pass last year, he wasn't going down easy. Betts is a solid power back. Run him downhill and pitch it to him on the corner as a change of pace.

Posted by: vze2bnyf | April 16, 2008 12:59 PM

Philly would be silly to let go of Lito Sheppard, even if he is no longer gruntled there. I like him alot.

Posted by: Cindy | April 16, 2008 12:31 PM

It all depends what you get in return. Philly's in a great position to shop Lito for a very high price. If they can't find a suitor, keeping him would be perfectly fine. I just wish they could/would do the shopping a lot more on the down low (easier said than done) so they don't piss Lito off any more than they probably already have.

Adam

Posted by: EaglesFanAdam | April 16, 2008 1:01 PM

180k, whoo boy, 200k here we come!

and then... and then... 300k! WOO HOOO

Posted by: Anonymous | April 16, 2008 1:11 PM

180,114th!

Posted by: Anonymous | April 16, 2008 1:13 PM

I am not concerned at all about the long snapping position. The Red Snapper has that on lockdown.

Posted by: Dorf | April 16, 2008 1:17 PM

Also, I would like to see him catch more passes/screens as he does this better than he gets credit for.

Posted by: vze2bnyf | April 16, 2008 12:59 PM


So you're saying what this team needs is More Bellcow!

Posted by: SMACK | April 16, 2008 1:24 PM

Any Alaskan bloggers up here?

Posted by: Dorf | April 16, 2008 1:26 PM

I'm not concerned about this season's tough schedule. Actually, I think its good that we will be challenged, because...it seems like the team is developing a solid core of young players for the first time in say 15 years. There is a lot of future potential at some key/expensive positions (QB, CB, DT, OT, OLB, S). If we can expand on that talent pool over the next 3 seasons, then we may be a powerhouse/top tier team when Campbell is peaking in his 6th season as a starter...

Posted by: LARRYDAVID | April 16, 2008 1:29 PM

Jasno again proves his ignorance about the sport of American football.

Offensive lines make a tailback with very few exceptions. Good tailbacks shine because they have the talent to make things happen at the second level -- but getting to that level is all about the O-line.

Of course, Jasno doesn't know anything about football anyway. He thinks a running back makes holes. Little league football coaches know more than Jasno.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 16, 2008 1:35 PM

But Romo peaked as a starter in his 3rd season.

(in case someone hasn't reminded you of that recently)

I don't really read the supermarket magazines, but I haven't heard much about Romo in a while. Usually its half ESPN drooling over him/half tabloid rumors and half idiot cowboys fans (sorry smack) treating him like the second coming of the Almighty.

Maybe its because he's 0-2 in the playoffs?

Don't mind me, just stirring up old issues. I'm not used to this frequency of threads of 'new'information.

Posted by: Dorf | April 16, 2008 1:36 PM

Offensive lines make a tailback with very few exceptions. Good tailbacks shine because they have the talent to make things happen at the second level -- but getting to that level is all about the O-line.

Posted by: | April 16, 2008 1:35 PM

Unless your name is Barry-freaking-Sanders or Earl-I'll-run-right-thru-you-Campbell

Posted by: Anonymous | April 16, 2008 1:39 PM

Good afternoon anonymous, 1:35pm. Perhaps your eyes accidentally missed this sentence in Jason's post. Or you just chose to ignore the sentence in your never ending quest to be a hemmy infested butt monkey:

"Of course, the erratic play of the injury-plagued offensive line had something to do with Portis's inconsistent 2007 as well."

Posted by: Anonymous | April 16, 2008 1:39 PM

I was hoping that the Seattle game would be earlier in the season, before the weather out here turns to crap.

Oh well. I'll be there regardless. San Fran, too.

Neat.

Posted by: freakzilla | April 16, 2008 1:39 PM

"Had something to do" isn't the same as "had EVERYTHING to do."

You mention Barry Sanders -- I guess you missed the line "very few exceptions"?

Posted by: Anonymous | April 16, 2008 1:43 PM

The Skins are fine at RB and HB. Totally, completely fine.

It's the LINE, people, the LINE!

Oh, everyone already said that.

In any event, then, I wholeheartedly agree with Jasno's assessment of the situation. Let's not be wasting a draft pick on a position of unneed.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 16, 2008 1:43 PM

7/10 pee wee coaches agree:

Anon posting is lame

Posted by: chris larrY | April 16, 2008 1:43 PM

You know, I keep coming back to RI for insights like this: no injuries and win the first game. Reminds me of that other one about "we take them one game at a time." Or is it "We want to beat this week's opponent. We're not looking beyond them?"

Posted by: | April 16, 2008 11:47 AM

My point was about how winning the first game is more important than winning any of the other games (unless and until they get to late season divisional games that would make a difference for the playoffs). See the Saints last year. Its much harder to shake off a losing start than it is to start losing mid-season. Early wins parlay into more wins, esp. games that should be losses. See the Lions last year.

Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 1:44 PM

freakzilla, I'm a little bummed that the SF game is between the holidays. No way I'll be able to make that trip. Okay, a lot bummed.

Seattle, though, is ON.

-Nate in the PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 16, 2008 1:45 PM

sween, I thought you were borrowing the Captain Obvious mantle up there. It suits you, dude. Borrow it any time.

-Capt. Obvious

Posted by: Anonymous | April 16, 2008 1:46 PM

9/10 pee wee coaches agree:

A sign of a simpleton is believing that events/actions occur due to one variable (EVERYTHING TO DO WITH IT) as opposed to a combination of factors.

Posted by: chris larrY | April 16, 2008 1:47 PM

Damn what's up with JLC hate of CP? He hated on him all last year and after he bounce back and proved JLC wrong he said nothing. Now this BS!

"defense (many bemoaned what they considered to be a double standard"

Funny you don't hear about this from no one but JLC around the league.

Posted by: jm220 | April 16, 2008 1:49 PM

I've seen some mocks now having Brandon Albert going 5th overall? What gives?

Posted by: TDawg | April 16, 2008 1:49 PM

7/10 pee wee coaches agree:

Anon posting is lame

Posted by: chris larrY | April 16, 2008 1:43 PM

Registration has turned me into a trained gerbel - I forget that I have to sign my name again.

So....feel free to call me lame.

Posted by: CBT | April 16, 2008 1:49 PM

15/10 pee wee coaches agree that JM220 has man crush on CP

Posted by: chrIs larry | April 16, 2008 1:51 PM

More than anything, I think Clinton needs to have fewer carried, and Betts needs to make up that difference. Give Clinton 270 carries, otherwise, he's going to be ground into dust, by the end of the year.

"Portis will hold considerable sway with rookie head coach Jim Zorn"

Not sure I buy this statement. I'll lend it credence, but not much more. Zorn will no doubt want to maximize Portis's talents, but as far as being swayed by ANY player, I'm not sure that is going to happen.

Posted by: Greg(Boston) | April 16, 2008 1:54 PM

Captain, I didn't recognize you with the sunglasses on ... the post didn't have any of the Nate tells, aka Nateotics.

My initial point was not just Belichekiotics, it was that losing the first game can be devastating and that fair weather band wagon jumper offers have a higher chance of being right after a Week One loss than after any loss other than that.

Of course, up here,* after a loss, we jump off on Monday mornings (except after a Monday night game) but are back on by around 2:30 or 3:00 pm.

* Gibbspeak: gone but not forgotten

Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 1:55 PM

20 out of 20 pee wee coaches agree that CL has man crush on T.O.

Posted by: jm220 | April 16, 2008 1:55 PM

Whom do you have a man crush on?

Time to fess up, everyone.

Posted by: CBT | April 16, 2008 1:55 PM

And you have a man crush on Jasno

Posted by: Anonymous | April 16, 2008 1:56 PM

And you have a man crush on Jasno

Posted by: Anonymous | April 16, 2008 1:57 PM

I also am a little disappointed that there might not be roster space for the monster FB from WVU ... he has some hilarious YouTubes, like the fake run right/bad pooch punt on the run. Plus, he wears a mohawk. Everything about that guy to me says Sellers, Jr. I'm guessing he has many special teams tackles (but for the life of me, those are statistics I can't find anywhere in the intergoogles, even for the NFL much less college).

Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 1:58 PM

Man crush on Jack Bauer

Posted by: Chuck Norris | April 16, 2008 2:03 PM

Man crush on myself

Posted by: Jack Bauer | April 16, 2008 2:05 PM

I have a man crush on:
Brad Pitt
Denzel
Brett Favre

Posted by: Dorf | April 16, 2008 2:05 PM

Man crush on whoever is currently Jessica Biel's boyfriend.

My man crush changes as JB's boyfriends change.

Posted by: CBT | April 16, 2008 2:12 PM

RI has a collective man crush on jm220

Posted by: Anonymous | April 16, 2008 2:16 PM

Posted by: Anonymous | April 16, 2008 2:17 PM

OWEN SCHMITT OWEN SCHMITT

Posted by: rmur23 | April 16, 2008 2:18 PM

Here we go, again, with Jasno "misremembering:"

"but Byner was shown the door"

That's not how it happened, was it? Byner was offered a one year contract and he didn't sign it. The 'Skins got tired of waiting for him to make up his mind and looked elsewhere once they'd hired a new head coach.

Byner didn't have to be "shown the door." He found it on his own.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 16, 2008 2:20 PM

Okay, okay... I'll admit it would be nice to hear what Stump Mitchell thinks about all this. Or that nice Zorn fellow.

Do we have to wait for minicamp to start hearing what they think, or at least what they're willing to tell us they think?

Minicamp is, like, a million days away! I don't want to have to wait that long!

Posted by: Anonymous | April 16, 2008 2:23 PM

Good reminder about the importance of the O-line to the running game ... which leads me to a question for our resident draft monkeys. Who are the guys that blocked for Darren McFadden and Felix Jones that are in this draft?

Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 2:26 PM

Let's just end all the Redskins talk now...after seeing the line up this year for 08 and Zorn hired.....The Redskins will SUCK!

Posted by: Anonymous | April 16, 2008 2:26 PM

http://www.mancrush.com/mc/man?ad=699

go here to vote for Joe Thiesman. Maybe we can get him higher than God!

Posted by: Anonymous | April 16, 2008 2:29 PM

I already said this on another post but just to get an idea of what the rest of you think. Do you guys believe that JLC's Insider source was Earnest Byner.

I mean if you think about it JLC was on top of the coaching search and was able to report on everyone walking through Snyder's door. Since then....nothing, except for a million digs at the Skins and the childish "Hey kids, lets give Vinny a nickname (and then point and laugh)"

Anyway he's also been vocal about Byner being shown the door among other things, which as I said before, was kind of upset, as I grew up watching Earnest Byner help the Redskins win a Super Bowl.

Anyway my guess is that Byner was JLC's source until he got replaced.

Posted by: RedskinsInsiderVendetta | April 16, 2008 2:50 PM

Seems beyond question that Coach Byner was a reliable source, but also seems beyond question that Byner would be the only source on the coaching staff.

Responding to my own question about guys who blocked for McFadden and Felix Jones, I found this guy, Robert Felton, G (plus OT) projected to be a late round guy. http://www.hogwired.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=30724&SPID=2419&DB_OEM_ID=6100&ATCLID=186723&Q_SEASON=2007

Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 2:56 PM

Also for the sake of adding to the article. The possibility of drafting a RB in the first 3 rounds seems to be realistic. Apparently the team is interested in potential 3rd round pick Matt Forte out of Tulan and Jamaal Charles out of Texas. They also met with Rasard Mendenhall from Illinois but I wouldn't look to much into that one.

Also if anyone is a member or Warpath Insiders could you post the rest of this story:

NFL Draft Buzz: Forte, Atchison, Langford


RB Matt Forte (AP Photo/Pat Sullivan) By Ed Thompson
Senior NFL Analyst
Date: Apr 11, 2008

In this installment of the Draft Buzz, see which of these players the Redskins have been showing serious interest in.

Posted by: RedskinsInsiderVendetter | April 16, 2008 2:57 PM

I've seen some mocks now having Brandon Albert going 5th overall? What gives?
Posted by: TDawg | April 16, 2008 1:49 PM

Chalk that up to Buges working him out....

Posted by: 4th | April 16, 2008 2:57 PM

Mistyped that ... meant to say there were coach sources OTHER than Byner ... beyond, such as

Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 3:00 PM

why do people waste their time here if you don't want to hear what he has to say? go elsewhere. let the man blog as he wants, you don't have to read it! give it up and do something else with yourself......

Posted by: dan | April 16, 2008 3:01 PM

Seems like using a draft pick on more than one running back or fullback would be akin to drafting a QB with Brunell, Collins, Campbell, and Bramlett already on the roster (and Hollenbach added the day after the draft) ... unless Betts and/or Rock are QUIETLY being shopped. Someone should ask Coach Byner ... oh wait ... never mind ...

Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 3:04 PM

I have another question (aren't I just a bundle of questions today?) ... when a guy gets traded, if he is under contract, does the contract transfer to the new team? I know that the draft (and trades) means only one team has the RIGHTS for the playing time of that player (see Jake Plummer), but does the new team inherit the contract? or is the contract only btwn the player and the team he negotiated with?

Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 3:07 PM

Chalk that up to Buges working him out....

Posted by: 4th | April 16, 2008 2:57 PM

Not likely. If this were the case, then everyone Buges worked out would be rocketing up the charts. More than likely, teams already rated him pretty well, then looked at what else was out there, and started thinking he looked better than the others. Finally, the press realized it, and started moving him up in the Muck Drafts.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 16, 2008 3:07 PM

Clinton Portis is my favorite player.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 16, 2008 3:10 PM

Clinton Portis is my favorite player.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 16, 2008 3:11 PM

Clinton Portis is my favorite player.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 16, 2008 3:11 PM

Clinton Portis is my favorite player.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 16, 2008 3:13 PM

4th, I'm with you re: Buges ... that article from the Fredricksburg paper was linked all over the place, then a couple three days later, Jasno mentioned Albert, then a couple few more days and Albert was moving up quick ... and around that time, "NFL executives and scouts and talent evaluators" (not our own, mind you) starting saying that Albert could play left tackle ... and with the "narrative" about this position changed, he became consistently a top ten pick.

Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 3:15 PM

sween, isn't Brunell off the roster at this very moment? I seem to remember rejoicing over that news... but point taken anyway, that RB like QB is NOT a position of relative need, in my opinion from out here in the PDX.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 16, 2008 3:15 PM

and it wasn't Buges working him out, it was Buges monopolizing all of this free (non-workout) time chatting him up at the UVa Pro Day.

Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 3:16 PM

@sween

They get the contract.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 16, 2008 3:19 PM

second 3:15pm, I was suggesting that taking a RB in this draft might be (almost) as stupid as taking a QB in the sixth round in the last draft. [The "almost" is because, with nine picks rather than five (six? four?), another RB wouldn't be a stupid as the Jordan Palmer pick.] That said, if they are prepared to "waste" a pick, I've been clear about where I am on that question ... punter!

Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 3:19 PM

@3:19pm, thanks ... all the more value in quietly shopping Betts.

Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 3:21 PM

I have another question (aren't I just a bundle of questions today?) ... when a guy gets traded, if he is under contract, does the contract transfer to the new team? I know that the draft (and trades) means only one team has the RIGHTS for the playing time of that player (see Jake Plummer), but does the new team inherit the contract? or is the contract only btwn the player and the team he negotiated with?

Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 3:07 PM

The contract transfer and stays the same (bonus, ULTBE, LTBE, and Base Salaries). But, the majority of trades usually rip up the old contract and hammer out a new one....

Posted by: 4th | April 16, 2008 3:21 PM

Seems like Chad Johnson is at it again....

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3349761

Posted by: Cindy | April 16, 2008 3:21 PM

4th, I'm with you re: Buges ... that article from the Fredricksburg paper

Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 3:15 PM

That is exactly what I was refering to. No one could have jumped as early on the Albert Bandwagon earlier than us because that article is what did it....

Posted by: 4th | April 16, 2008 3:23 PM

New Era Scouting scouting report on Branden Albert ... apparently, Skins not listed as interested ... but my favorite part is the best case/worst case projections. Could be as good as Larry Allen ... couldn't be worse than Leonard Davis. http://www.newerascouting.com/profiler/viewprofile.php?id=141

Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 3:24 PM

" ... But, the majority of trades usually rip up the old contract and hammer out a new one ...."

Posted by: 4th | April 16, 2008 3:21 PM

I also would be interested in learning WHY they re-negotiated with Brandon Lloyd.

Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 3:26 PM

dc, why would you want to know that? He's gone, lets let that one go...

Posted by: Greg | April 16, 2008 3:28 PM

Chad Johnson is REALLY making it hard for the Bengals to save face and trade him.

Which reminds me, why is it that ... "NEXT QUESTION!" I mean, I just wanted to know ... "NEXT QUESTION!" ... but if ... "NEXT QUESTION!"

Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 3:28 PM

dc, why would you want to know that? He's gone, lets let that one go...

Posted by: Greg | April 16, 2008 3:28 PM

Never saw this post coming

Posted by: Anonymous | April 16, 2008 3:30 PM

Greg, I'm a Skins fan, but I think The Owner and the EVP have made some dubious decisions. I don't want to be bashed like Jasno, so I'm all ears for any rational explanation ... even if its just theoretical ... I figure there is no way we could ever REALLY find out the "why" ... so if there IS even a possible rational reason, I'm prepared to let it go.

Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 3:32 PM

They did it 2 years ago right? I mean, what does it matter now, other than they learned their lesson, and have changed their way's, which it appears that they have, hopefully.

I guess I've just moved on from the Brandon Lloyd era...

Posted by: Greg | April 16, 2008 3:34 PM

sween, I've been combing through the CBA over on the NFLPA site, and in several places language indicates that the contract itself is traded to the new team. The player apparently comes with.


I'm no lawyer, but this CBAotics is REALLY interesting reading. On this page, search for "(f) Traded Contracts"

http://www.nflplayers.com/user/template.aspx?fmid=181&lmid=231&pid=612&type=c

-PDX

Posted by: Anonymous | April 16, 2008 3:35 PM

I also would be interested in learning WHY they re-negotiated with Brandon Lloyd.

Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 3:26 PM

Because they traded a 3rd and 4th rounder for him and he only had a one year deal. They didn't want to let him go after they spent so many quality draft picks on him for just one year, even though that has happened before....

Posted by: 4th | April 16, 2008 3:37 PM

I searched for "(f) Traded Contracts", but all that came up was "(F chRIs Larry)"

Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 3:37 PM

Sween, if a trade occurs, the contract is assigned to the new team. However, the trade "accelerates" signing bonus and the new team is not responsible for any of the signing bonus. Accordingly, because Redskins typically give big signing bonuses to their big money players, they would take a significant cap hit if they were to trade any of such players.

See response to question 1.12 at the following link. http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/faq.asp

Posted by: M | April 16, 2008 3:38 PM

4th, that's what I was looking for ... that he only had a year left on his contract. I'm pretty sure Betts is under contract for longer than till the end of next year, though I know Rock only has a one year deal. The bit about assuring duration to replace two picks makes a ton of sense ... and I buy it.

DROPPED.

Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 3:39 PM

@sween,

Agree with 4th, plus they thought that he was going to have a break-out year with the Skins (catching the long ball from Mark Brunnell) and that if they waited a year it would cost them a lot more for a long-term deal. It was risky either way, and the 'Skins paid for being wrong.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 16, 2008 3:42 PM

Post about the salary cap hit on a trade is correct. Whatever money is remaining on a bonus is charged to the team trading the player. We took a big cap hit to trade Coles and that is exactly why the Bengals are balking at trading Chad Johnson. It would be an 8M cap hit to trade him.

Maybe Marvin Lewis should offer to buy CJ an HDTV to watch the games on.

Posted by: cdubb | April 16, 2008 3:43 PM

Accordingly, because Redskins typically give big signing bonuses to their big money players, they would take a significant cap hit if they were to trade any of such players.


Posted by: M | April 16, 2008 3:38 PM

You can offset any bonus by transfering the gaureented bonus to the new team, A La Archibingus and Da Bears who took $5Mil of the $10Mil gaureented bonus and got a new contract.

Posted by: 4th | April 16, 2008 3:43 PM

"... going to have a break-out year with the Skins ..."

This is what happened when I turned 15. Let's hear it for Retin-A.

Also, M, thanks for the reminder about the accelerate cap hit on the signing bonus. I don't have the link to the state of the cap (tried to find it ... redskinswarpath.com?), but I wonder how much of Betts' contract was front-loaded.

[I wonder if Betts ever reads RI or ES ... he seems like the most trade-talked guy on the team in both ... if so, its nothing personal against you Ladell, its just that you seem like the only guy who has that combo of trade value and redundancy.]

Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 3:46 PM

I think Archuletta was an exception. He wanted out badly and the Bears wanted him. Not many teams would agree to take on the bonuses we hand out.

Posted by: cdubb | April 16, 2008 3:48 PM

If Chad Johnson wants out as bad as he says he does, seems like a totally fixable problem along the lines of what 4th brings up ... both Archuleta and LaVar. I was just wondering what might happen if Betts were to be traded INvoluntarily.

Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 3:49 PM

You can offset any bonus by transfering the gaureented bonus to the new team, A La Archibingus and Da Bears who took $5Mil of the $10Mil gaureented bonus and got a new contract.

Posted by: 4th | April 16, 2008 3:43 PM

Technically, the way it works is that Arch re-negotiated the old contract with the 'Skins, reducing his bonus and repaying them the amount that the new team was paying him in bonus in his new contract. It takes a willing player to go along with it.

Posted by: Anonymous | April 16, 2008 3:50 PM

Posted by: 4th | April 16, 2008 3:51 PM

The Bengals also seem a little thin at RB (Rudi Johnson and Kenny Watson, plus a single FB in yet another Bengal named Johnson). I wouldn't be surprised (and remain too lazy to check) if Ladell Betts had better stats than Rudi Johnson in 2006.

Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 3:53 PM

Yikes! That site says that, in 2002, Betts signed an ELEVEN year contract (till 2013) that included a $4.85M signing bonus, with a total value of $15M and change. I have a vague recollection, however, that his contract was redone in 2006 before the season was over (because he supposedly would have hit free agency at that end of the 2006 season). Something in there doesn't make sense (other than me).

Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 3:58 PM

So you're saying what this team needs is More Bellcow!

Posted by: SMACK | April 16, 2008 1:24 PM

Not more Bellcow, different Bellcow, with Betts in the mix up the middle and on he corners. Every time they hand Portis the ball up the middle, it makes me cringe.

Posted by: vze2bnyf | April 16, 2008 3:59 PM

Accounting question (you'll notice me around town as the guy with a question mark on his forehead ... in permanent magic marker).

When they say that the signing bonus gets "amortized" over the life of the contract, does that amortization include interest like my mortgage? Or does it just mean that it gets divided up into as many equal amounts as there are years in the contract (with the time value of money to be dambed)? [Trying to figure out how much of Betts' 2002 signing bonus already would have been paid.]

Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 4:01 PM

I have a man crush on dcsween.

Posted by: not dcsween | April 16, 2008 4:01 PM

Hate Hate Hate Hate

Posted by: jonthefisherman | April 16, 2008 4:02 PM

v, what they NEED is more cowbell ... SMACK was being too clever by half (whatever that means).

Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 4:02 PM

couldn't resist huh Greg...some people find it inforamative to look back at what happened as a way to understand the present...normally they are called Historians...but in RI we call the "Jansonianins"

Pretty soon someone will mention Antonio Pierce (prolly beantown Greg responding to no one bringing him up....)

I kid b/c I like Greg....lighten up (as a wise one said to me once....)

Posted by: chris laRry | April 16, 2008 4:04 PM

Half-clever, half-idiot (thanks, Dorf).

Posted by: SMACK | April 16, 2008 4:06 PM

If we're going to talk about signing Lloyd, then we might as well bring up Antonio Pierce...lets do this right....


(how was that cl?)

Posted by: Greg | April 16, 2008 4:07 PM

Things are getting uglier and uglier in Cincinnati.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/category/rumor-mill/

In related news, here is my latest mock:

Skins send the 21st overall pick in the 20087 Draft and Rock Cartwright to the Bengals for Receiver Chad Johnson.

1 (TRD)Chad Johnson, WR, Cincinnati Bengals
2 (WAS)Dre Moore, DT, Maryland
3 (WAS)Reggie Smith, CB/S, OU
3 (CMP)Tavares Gooden, LB, Miami
5 (WAS)Mike Fladell, OG, Rutgers
6 (WAS)Colt Brennan, QB, Hawaii
7 (WAS)Bobby Byrd, OT, Wash St.
7 (CMP)Carlton Powell, DT, VT
7 (CMP)Tommy Blake, DE, TCU

Posted by: talkshowhost | April 16, 2008 4:07 PM

(you'll notice me around town as the guy with a question mark on his forehead ... in permanent magic marker).
Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 4:01 PM

At least you're not this guy.

http://www.nndb.com/people/422/000031329/lesko.jpg

Posted by: SMACK | April 16, 2008 4:08 PM

ugh, no thanks to TJ. If he's causing waves in Cincy, what makes people think he wont do the same thing here?

Posted by: Greg | April 16, 2008 4:11 PM

Posted by: Nico | April 16, 2008 4:11 PM

Does fake not dcsween have a crush on dcsween, or is fake not dcsween trying to frame dcsween as being notguy

Posted by: Anonymous | April 16, 2008 4:12 PM

Yes, I'm glad I'm not that guy ... he has question marks on his JACKET ... that's way harder to remove than permanent marker.

Internet searches on "too clever by half" give me no satisfaction ... so I'm going with 50% clever, 50% idiot.

DOOMED.

Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 4:13 PM

Yikes! That site says that, in 2002, Betts signed an ELEVEN year contract (till 2013) that included a $4.85M signing bonus, with a total value of $15M and change. I have a vague recollection, however, that his contract was redone in 2006 before the season was over (because he supposedly would have hit free agency at that end of the 2006 season). Something in there doesn't make sense (other than me).
Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 3:58 PM

This is including his rookie contract. I believe it was a 6 or 7 year extension of his original contract. They did this for salary cap purposes.....

Posted by: 4th | April 16, 2008 4:13 PM

Does fake not dcsween have a crush on dcsween, or is fake not dcsween trying to frame dcsween as being notguy

Posted by: | April 16, 2008 4:12 PM

That sounds like just the thing notguy would want us all to believe ... or not believe.

Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 4:14 PM

1. I totally would want to be Frank Gorshin and/or The Riddler ... but I would not be clever enough by 95%.

2. 4th, now I'm getting more confused ... so in doing the extension, does that mean he got the same annual salary for additional years and a longer period of time over which to spread out the signing bonus cap effect? I'm starting to think that it might be a bad idea to quietly shop Betts ... because it would require not only two lawyers, but also a mathematician.

Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 4:18 PM

* beep beep * for everyone who doesn't mind when Jasno posts about things other than football


everybody else, stay here!

Posted by: Anonymous | April 16, 2008 4:19 PM

Caps fans should head to the new thread from Jasno.

Redskins fans should stay here.

BEEP BEEP - only if you really like hockey.

Posted by: Not Quite Breaking News | April 16, 2008 4:19 PM

er, football only people, please ADVANCE TWO THREADS. do not pass go, do not collect $200.

* beepfrog*

Posted by: Anonymous | April 16, 2008 4:21 PM

beep beep... a football related beep beep

Posted by: Anonymous | April 16, 2008 4:21 PM

Well, more junk about Chad Johnson is ALMOST a football-related post.

Posted by: Broken News | April 16, 2008 4:23 PM

It got "super-smart" up here all of a sudden.

Posted by: Dorf | April 16, 2008 4:24 PM

Accounting question (you'll notice me around town as the guy with a question mark on his forehead ... in permanent magic marker).

When they say that the signing bonus gets "amortized" over the life of the contract, does that amortization include interest like my mortgage? Or does it just mean that it gets divided up into as many equal amounts as there are years in the contract (with the time value of money to be dambed)? [Trying to figure out how much of Betts' 2002 signing bonus already would have been paid.]
Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 4:01 PM

I may qualify to answer this. No interest. BUT, because the cap becomes bigger each year, the value of the yearly amortized signing bonus becomes a smaller percentage of the cap year over year over year.

Most of Betts original '02 signing bonus has mostly been amortized. He signed his new deal in the last year of his original contract. Because the Skins had Cap room in that year, they used the majority of it to include a signing bonus. There's a big roster bonus coming up this or next year...

Posted by: 4th | April 16, 2008 4:24 PM

Posted by: M | April 16, 2008 4:24 PM

Um LaVar -- as much as I loved him as a player -- signed a contact as the highest paid LB in the game, then sued the owner falsely claiming he was due two signing bonuses in one year. Which ultimately resulted in his agent getting suspended and LaVar paying to leave for the Giants. He also had a bruise and never played at a high level again...

If your best player sues the owner and doesn't perform up to expectations, then yeah that sounds like pretty good justification for getting cut.

Posted by: Siris | April 16, 2008 4:27 PM

Siris, the reference to LaVar was just about a player voluntarily re-negotiating his contract to take less money in order to be released from the contract and play for another team.

Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 4:29 PM

M, that was it. Thanks ... and now I have it bookmarked.

Posted by: dcsween | April 16, 2008 4:33 PM

Posted by: talkshowhost | April 16, 2008 4:07 PM

Colt Brennan sucks - and so does the rest of your mock draft. It isn't even good enough to qualify as memedom.

Posted by: NYC Librarian | April 16, 2008 4:39 PM

Wow, I'm shocked by the Portis comments. I mean the guy is a complete player who blocks, runs, and catches. He's one of the best players on the team. Last year running behind the Skins injured/backup OL -- and returning from injury himself -- Portis was the 12th ranked RB in the NFL. He ran for 1,262 yds on 325 carries, caught 47 passes for 389 yds (3.9 avg), had 11 TDs with only 5 fumbles for loss. I suspect he'll be even better this year with a healthy OL, zone blocking, and a better passing game.

Betts in contrast was healthy and didn't look good last year. He only rushed for 335 yds (3.6 avg) on 93 carries, with 174 yds receiving, 1 TD and 1 fumble. I like him as a backup, but he should have plenty of competition in camp this year from Cartwright and Mason.

Sellers is an excellent FB and Cartwright is a good backup/ST player. I'm not sure why the Skins don't use Rock as a backup FB... Wasn't that his original position out of college?

The Skins re-signed Nemo too. Perhaps he can stay healthy this year and make the team as the backup FB. Schmidt didn't even make the practice squad last year, so I'm guessing he's just a camp body.

The Skins are set at both RB and FB. I'd be surprised if they draft any RBs, but not if pickup a late round FB or FAs for training camp.

Posted by: Siris | April 16, 2008 5:01 PM

"Accounting question (you'll notice me around town as the guy with a question mark on his forehead ... in permanent magic marker)."

Matthew Lesko?

Posted by: Zoro (aka RIV) | April 17, 2008 1:11 AM

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