first!

Tellin ya, Marcus Monk in the 5th, or even earlier IMO, would be a steal.

Didn't know which one we were posting on...

Anyway:

NFL Network did a piece on CJ last night, stating that CJ originally stated he was going to attend the mini-camp, but now has gone back on his word, because he wants to be traded.

My opinion is that, unless it takes a 5th round pick to get him, and he agrees to REDUCE his current contract, then NO THANKS. Look what he is doing to an ESTABLISHED Coach, and an ESTABLISHED QB. You don't think he's going to try and take advantage of a ROOKIE coach, and a Young QB??

Also, someone mentioned above about not talking about Roy Williams because the Lions have stated they aren't trading him. The same holds true for CJ, the Bengals have stated he's not being traded. Trading a first round pick for a 30 year old guy, is just STUPID, and IRRESPONSIBLE.

Posted by: Greg | April 17, 2008 7:51 AM

Give me Hardy, Sweed, Thomas, or Kelly...not johnson or boldin for that matter.
we already have one "charismatic" guy on offense. We need more dudes who shut up during the week and show up on sunday. see fletcher, landry, carter, etc.

No, no Ocho Cinco, por favor. Ay, dios mio, ello es loco en la cabeza.

Those four years of high school spanish are finally paying off.

JLC:

I realize that this may take you far out of your comfort zone, but do you think you could provide some insight on Tyler Ecker before taking a shot at the "ample intriguing prospects at this position on the street after the draft"?

I'm with the anon, I'd rather take a rookie, who is going to come in without the baggage that CJ brings.

Seems to me Ecker had his shot.

I'm with Jasno on the talent depth at TE. Maryland has two worth taking a look at that will definitely be around after the draft.

Jason Goode and Joey Haynos.

I don't have solid numbers on Goode, but haynos had a pretty good pro day:

Bench- 19 reps
Vert- 31.5
3 cone- 6.92
pro ag- 4.28
40- 4.79 (a little sluggish, maybe)

He's 6'7" 262 with a heckuva wingspan and a truly solid work ethic. He'd definitely be worth an invite as an undrafted FA.

So here are Goode's numbers-

6'3", 240
40- 4.58
Vert- 34.5
BP- 14 reps
pro ag- 4.31
3 cone- 7.8

I saw this guy play a lot and can attest to the fact that he is stonger in the upper body than the BP reps show and that he has better straight ahead speed than aglity. He's a proto-typical H-back and served as a decent edge blocker.

Again, worth signing as an FA

Larry Bud,

Do you know if either were at the Skins workout of local players? I think Jasno forgot to mention.

Rod Gardner sucked. You must have been reading his high school profile if you think he was above average. He could get downfield alright...he could get 40 yards downfield in about 5 seconds. I'd rather have Danny Buggs or Albert "Sticky Fingers" Connell.

LB, thanks for the updates. Seems like Goode has the speed you look for in that spot. Maybe a HB/FB hybrid type. Needs to get stronger, I'll say that.

Good stuff...

Although I am not a scout or NFL guy (except for couch coach/gm/scout/insider,etc) I think that there are two receivers in this draft that will be players in the NFL, one of which we need to take. Jordy Nelson and Hardy. Both are big solid receivers and can make plays. From what I have read, Hardy seems like he is maturing and may have put his off field problems behind him (although violence against women should be condemned!!). But on the field, he will be a weapon for some team for a long time. My choice to pick is Nelson. This cat can do it all. He can start w/returning punts and grow into our 2 spot at WR. He can throw the ball so could be used in trick plays along with Portis and ARE. Three players to keep other teams on their toes.

So, to answer a previous question, Nelson is who I have a man crush on. Do not let him get away by trading for CJ!!

Also, what's with the infatuation with a big guy for the slot position? The best slot receiver in the league was in NE and he's a small, quick guy. In fact, why do we have to follow the trend and get a big receiver? Because it's in vogue? If a guy can get open, it shouldn't matter how tall he is. Instead of drafting a big receiver (who will never have the quickness of a small guy) get a QB who is accurate. I hate to have to go back 25 years, but Duper, Clayton and Moore were small guys for Marino. The Smurfs did just fine for us.
Forget about jump balls. Jump balls are for guys who aren't fast enough to get separation. Let's stop following trends and start establishing some of our own. Just my humble opinion...

Mark, I'm no expert, but in the west coast offense, the receiver for the slot usually runs patterns towards the middle of the field, thus exposing themselves to a lot of hits.

And while Welker did excel in that spot last year, he took a POUNDING. I remember the NE/Wash game, and London Fletcher was absolutely destroying Welker when he came in the middle of the field. Welker might not last another full season under that kind of duress.

Curzon,

I know that they held such a day. I'm not sure if these guys were invited.

Bring on Chad Johnson (for the right price trade-wise, with an incentive laden contract). Dude's good, and 30 is not that old. No health issues that I have heard of, and he would definitely open some things up. All things said, TO hasn't caused any problems in dallas (yet). He could really help the team, so I say if we can get him for a good deal, make the trade......If the Bungles want too much, forget it. Sounds like that is what Jasno's hunch is all about. Nothing wrong with that. Bring on the jibba-jabba!

Greg, I agree, slot is a tough place to play if you are a small receiver, however, that is where I think that ARE is best at. Hate to say this but I am just thinking of wins and having the best team, but if ARE can give us two years in the slot at the cost of his body (he is getting paid pretty good), I am happy with that. Running backs have a short career because of their position, so I am OK with some other players taking the same road for the team. Plus, playing the slot allows us to use him in the throwing role more often.

Hey guys. I've been ultra busy with schoolwork, and have been sick. I just read about 4th dad dying and all the tax crap he had to do the other night. That must have been difficult. I'll be praying for you and you have my condolences.

On another note, Hardy sounds incredible in terms of his work ethic, sense of responsibility, and personality. He doesn't take a moment off and continually wants to excel and improve. That is the type of player we need, especially one with decent talent that we can groom to be a superstar. I'm all for moving one way or another to get Hardy, i.e. slightly up or trading down to get the right spot to draft him.

85 stinks up a sewage treatment room; he's just not worth it. Anything else I didn't really get to read yet, so at the moment I have no comments on the rest of the stuff that was talked about. One last thing - glad to see a bunch of football posts instead of JLaC's mild obsession with the caps or bashing the 'Skins.

d1haze,

For the right price, I can be happy with CJ, but both the girls and iggles have more price to work with than the Skins. If the trade goes to what CJ wants, we may get him. If the trade goes to what the Bengals want, then the girls will probably get him. The iggles are too cheap to get good talent.

The infatuation is that a big guy give you more options of plays that you can try.

Stinking job... getting in the way of BMGO.

The play that comes to mind is the tossup ball back corner of the end-zone that everyone tries. We almost never got it last year in part because of WR size.

d1haze,
For the right price, I can be happy with CJ, but both the girls and iggles have more price to work with than the Skins. If the trade goes to what CJ wants, we may get him. If the trade goes to what the Bengals want, then the girls will probably get him. The iggles are too cheap to get good talent.
Posted by: Curzon417 | April 17, 2008 9:19 AM

Scary if the Cowboys got him.....very scary. Jerrah has a knack for manipulation. Notice how pac-man has "decided" to put off his reinstatement request until after he gets his trade to dallas done. Advantage dallas. This way the Titans can't decide to keep him or up the price if he gets reinstated right away. I hate Jerry Jones.....

dl, me personally, I'm not worried about pacman going to Dallas. A leopard can't change his spots. How much time elapses before he's suspended again for another incident? He's just trouble.

Scary if the Cowboys got him.....very scary. Jerrah has a knack for manipulation. Notice how pac-man has "decided" to put off his reinstatement request until after he gets his trade to dallas done. Advantage dallas. This way the Titans can't decide to keep him or up the price if he gets reinstated right away. I hate Jerry Jones.....

Posted by: dlhaze | April 17, 2008 9:35 AM

I wonder if that is legal? The NFL should look into such things.

Not too worried either Greg. BUT, it looks like the Titans are just giving up and Dallas is going to get a good deal on him. IF (big if) he does straighten out, and who knows, he might, it is a definite upgrade at corner and punt returner. Even if only for a while. I guess I am a little worried over it. The only good thing would be if he befriended a bunch of cowboys and took them all out clubbing (a-la the Vikings/love boat).......

One perk about being a video editor is there is occasional down time when they computer is rendering.

dl, look no further than pacman's comments on the Michael Irvin show. When asked if he would stop going to strip clubs, pac said something along the lines of 'never saying never'. This cat is bad news...if he hasn't changed now, he's not changing.

Heres a good write-up on the Cap Hit the Bengals will take when (oops i mean if) they trade Chad Johnson (to the Skins). At this point I am 90% certain a deal will get done. As Jasno pointed out, we didn't free up all that capspace for nothing. Snyder wants CJ. CJ wants to be a redskin. Drew Rosenhaus is involved. I view it as a matter of when, not if. Anyway, heres the article.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/04/17/clarifying-the-johnson-cap-hit/

CLARIFYING THE JOHNSON CAP HIT
Posted by Mike Florio on April 17, 2008, 7:07 a.m.
Whenever the possibility of trading Chad Johnson comes up, Mark Curnutte of the Cincinnati Enquirer crows about the supposedly crippling cap hit that the Bengals would take if they were to trade or release Johnson.

Again on Wednesday, Curnutte asserts that "the club can simply not afford to trade the wide receiver or terminate his contract."

Curnutte continues to point to an $8 million cap hit that the Bengals would take. But Curnutte also continues to minimize and/or overlook a couple of key facts.

First, the June 1 rule permits the cap charge to be spread over two seasons. If Johnson is traded or released after June 1, the dead money in 2008 will be considerably smaller, apparently in the neighborhood of $3 million. He also can be cut now, with the move designated as a post-June 1 transaction.

Second, since the Bengals would avoid Johnson's $3 million base salary for 2008 (and his $250,000 workout bonus, which they've presumably already been relieved from paying due to his failure to report for voluntary offseason workouts), it's a wash in 2008 dollars.

Third, any cap hit in 2009 would be offset by $4.75 million in salary and workout bonus that the Bengals wouldn't have to pay to Johnson.

Third, Curnutte makes his claims without setting forth any facts regarding the team's projected cap situation in 2009, when the maximum per-team spending limit is virtually certain to increase by another $7 million or more, exceeding $120 million for the first time. So what's $5 million or so in dead money, especially when $4.75 million or so in new money wouldn't be paid to a guy with a stick in his butt?

Remember this -- we're talking about the Bengals. Mike Brown is one of those owners who would be happy to operate without a salary cap because there likewise would be no salary floor. Cutting or trading Johnson means in essence that the Bengals get extra credit toward the salary floor without spending any more money.

Our guess in this regard is that the Bengals are privately using the cap hit to help sell their decision to the fan base to dig in their heels and not trade Johnson, even if at some point it's in the team's best short-term and long-term interests to do so.

Sooner or later, the fans are going to demand that something be done; we think the Bengals are trying to head that off by floating a specious argument based on financial realities that in reality inure to the benefit of the chronically frugal franchise.

OK! I see Chad Johnson is once again the topic of conversation.

Here is my take on Chad Johnson.

I like CJ. I think he's a great talent that could help the development of JC. I think that his numbers clearly speak volumes about what he can do on the field. I DON'T think Johnson is some sort of problem child or drama king like some posters.
Face it folks, Gibbs is gone. You don't have to be 12 o'clock guys anymore, to make this team. Like La Canfora said, "This is Rosenhaus 101 people." Its as simple as that. We've seen it with T.O. and Briggs.
I've said it before I don't think its cool how he's going about the situation, but its a new day in sports, people. If someone wants more money or wants to play for a different team, they make it public. The media has so much influence these days and the speed reach of the media isn't like any other time in sports. If you're a great athelete who has a legit drama beef, then you'll own sportscenter for weeks. You'll be the first topic of discussion in your respected sport. This gets the FO of other teams and fans talking.

With all that said, (sorry) the only thing that worries me about Chad is his age. He IS 30. With the draft coming up we can get someone who is about 6-8 years younger, cheaper, and more of the WR mold this team needs. I like CJ but he's not a possession type WR, not even on his current team.

tsh, thanks for posting that article.

The problem isn't with the Bengals cap. It will be with the Redskins cap. If this happens, which I hope it doesn't, and it happens in June, the Redskins most likely will have signed a rookie, or two, thus REDUCING the amount of cap space they have. Its not like the Redskins have 15 million in cap space. They have 7 mill, and after you sign 9 rookies and some College free agents, how much is going to be left? I just don't see this happening.

Thx for the explanation, Greg. I always thought that slot guys should be quick as opposed to big. Maybe that's not the case with this West Coast offense.

Greg, I might be wrong, but I believe it was reported that the Skins have cap room set aside for rookies, room set aside for emergencies, and THEN have another 7-8 million in cap room. Pretty sure I read this on this blog.

What is a "12:00 guy", Red? I don't get that one.

WR's I would like to see the Skins draft:

James Hardy
Devin Thomas
Limas Sweed
Jordy Nelson

I think they will be drafted in that order also. I see a lost of people are sold on Nelson, I'm curious to know why?

I gotcha, Alex35332. I guess the downfield run blocking is another thing that works in a big receivers favor. I know we used to use a fade pattern with Art back in the day, too.

anon, "12:00 guys" are what some may refer to as "straight up" or "stand up" guys. my bad for the confusion.

I swear, I drink, and some may say I indulge in some other moral questioning activities. So me personally I think I'm a 7:15 sort of dude.

Maybe 7:18.

Greg, we have no idea what the cap hit in 2008 might be, if a trade for CJ were made. We DO know that the Skins are the best salary cap jugglers in the league.

Still with you in opposition to such a trade, for what it's worth, since I still haven't seen a penny by way of kickback.

How much of an effect do you think the Randy Moss trade last year during the draft (for a freakin' fourth round pick... ugh) had on CJ's decision to make such a stink this offseason?

Greg, the nearly 8M the redskins have available does not include the 2-3M for the rookie pool. The skins really do have 8M to use on veteran players. And if you look at the contracts for players we've signed/traded for in the past (lloyd, arch, moss, randel el, etc), the cap hit in the first year was never more than a couple million. Its not until the 3rd year that the contracts even begin to approach 5-6M. Granted, Johnson would require more than them, but the skins would still have plenty of cap room to sign Johnson, several mid-tier veteran FAs after the June 1st cuts (likely a CB and LB).

Also, it surprises me how Jasno has been oblivios in the past two posts about CJ to the fact that the Bengals cut/trade Johnson NOW and designate him as a post june 1st cut, thereby minimizing the cap hit this year. Jasno is aware of the rule - as he informed us that we applied this rule when we cut Lloyd - why does he not understand that other teams, in this case the Bengals, can do the same thing?

Ah, 12:00 as in both hands pointed straight up. As an indicator of goodness.

As opposed to having your hands pointed straight in the air because the police officer instructed you to do so.

Stinking job... getting in the way of BMGO.

Posted by: Dorf | April 17, 2008 9:31 AM

Dorf, brother, put in a movie. Tests are over, right?

Red, to me, Nelson has a bunch of things in his favor, he's got good speed, good hands, good size, good character, can return punts, came to college as a safety which shows his versatility, and has been a big part of that program for his 4 years there. Not to mention that I don't think he's looked at as a first round pick, so that weighs in his favor as well.

Thomas, has great size, speed, but when you look at him, he's only had ONE good year at UM. Is he a one year wonder, or was he overlooked?

Sweed, had he not been hurt he'd have been a top 10 pick I believe. I think he'll probably not be around when the Redskins select in the second round. If he's there, then I'm all for him.

I guess I look at this realistically. I would prefer the Redskins not select a WR in the first, given the hit/miss ratio. Using a 2nd round pick on a wide out, I'd think that Nelson would be a logical choice, he'd represent value for where he is being picked.

I think the problem with drafting a receiver at 21 is how much other talent is available at need positions that is qualitatively better and harder to get later.

The receivers that are available at 21 aren't terrifically better than the ones that will be there two or three rounds later, IMO.

However, there's a big drop off at OG and DL.

LB, The receivers that are available at 21 aren't terrifically better than the ones that will be there two or three rounds later, IMO.

However, there's a big drop off at OG and DL

That is the BEST explanation I've heard in a while. Nicely done...

i would like to state that I am not opposed to trading our 1st round pick for CJ if we had to do so. CJ is worth a first round pick... if we could get him cheaper, then that would be great, but i doubt it. As Jasno pointed out, none of the guys in the draft are a sure thing and it generally takes receivers 3 years to develop when they DO work out. Guys like Sweed, Hardy, or Nelson would likely not make any impact until 2010 - if they ever made an impact at all.

CJ is an elite player and would do for this team what T.O. did to help the cowboys offense. He is a player who demands double teams. If teams double teamed CJ, they couldnt do so to moss and he would have a stellar year... and so would Randel El.

I do have 3 potential reservations about trading for CJ though:

1) Would we give up MORE than a 1st rounder for him? If the Bengals insisted on our 1st rounders this year and next, would we do it? I think we would and I wouldnt like it.

2) Is he a fit for the WCO? CJ is more a down the field guy. I don't know how effective he would be in the WCO. I'm not saying he wouldn't be. I'm saying I dont know.

3) How would CJ react if he wasn't as productive in the WCO and didnt put up big numbers here? How would he react if he decided JC wasnt as good of a QB as Palmer? How would Moss react to CJ's signing? Would he insist on a trade seeing as he was no longer the #1WR?

Greg,

Just as a little more fodder...

One draft report has Sweed listed at 6'4" 215 with a 4.52 40 and "dependable hands and some problems with gaining separation... relies too much on his natural ability... great leaper." It projects him going at 29 to the Vikings, I think.

The same report has this on Marcus Monk:

6'4", 215, 4.42-40, "Great size and ball awareness... terror in the red zone... lacks burst... uses his body very well... was valedictorian of his graduating class."

It projects him as mid 5th round. I have a feeling he'll be more like late 3rd, but you can see how little difference there is. I also think Monk might have suffered from the lack of true passing QB at Arkansas.

And I don't even want to comment on 8-5, cause I don't want to think it into possibility.

Bengals cut/trade Johnson NOW and designate him as a post june 1st cut, thereby minimizing the cap hit this year.

TSH, I'm not sure that you can designate a trade as a June 1st cut. I thought this classification was just for cutting players. More of a courtesy to veteran players so that they could look for work in a more favorable FA environment.

Guys like Sweed, Hardy, or Nelson would likely not make any impact until 2010 - if they ever made an impact at all.

Dude, that is a HUGE generalization. Are there incidents where receivers don't pan out?? Yes there are. But to say what you did, thats just incredibly inaccurate.

anonymous poster from 10:38 - Thats a good point, but according to the PFT article i provided a link to earlier, teams can designate trades as taking place post june 1st. I'm no expert, but generally PFT is right about this sort of thing.

IMO, we should get CJ IF we think that there is a chance to go to the big game this year or next. If not, we need to draft our receiver this year and have him ready for when this team is ready (assuming that we are building through youth to get better for years to come) to compete every year.

No to giving up our 1st rd pick this year because we need to get that DE/DT or OL in the first (again making an assumption that Merling or someone will fall to us) since as posted above, the talent level falls off after the 1st for those positions.

However, if we do not get CJ until after June 1, we may still have our young WR drafted this year, and I would be OK with losing our 1st next year. No more than that 1st however.

Red, here is a youtube link to a Jordy Nelson highlight video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6B_VmbiR7o

Guys like Sweed, Hardy, or Nelson would likely not make any impact until 2010 - if they ever made an impact at all.

Dude, that is a HUGE generalization. Are there incidents where receivers don't pan out?? Yes there are. But to say what you did, thats just incredibly inaccurate.

Posted by: Greg | April 17, 2008 10:40 AM

I agree. The draft in general is over-hyped. It's like a box of chocolates...

Plus we've been the headcase, high-priced FA WR route already- he even had the same number.

Let's try growing our own. heh, heh...

here is the list of local players that the redskins worked out.

REDSKINS WORKOUTS, APRIL 4
Position Player College

DB Ola Adams Concordia
OL Marshall Ausberry Liberty
P Johnny Ayers Boston College
RB Lance Ball Maryland
QB Matt Bassuener Georgetown
RB Frank Berchie Howard
K Eric Bjonerud Georgetown
WR Will Blanden Howard
LB Brian Bradford Towson
DB Julius Brown E. Michigan
DL Larry Brown Kent State
DL Jarrett Burgess Howard
DL Cornelius Campbell Syracuse
RB Phillip Carter Bridgewater
DB Kevin Cherepski Georgetown
WR Mike Clarke Wesley College
DB Markus Cortez (No School)
WR Brent Craft Georgetown
RB Omar Cuff Delaware
WR Larry Duncan Howard
RB Barrington Edwards North Carolina
OL Justin Faust Howard
DL Carlos Feliciano Maryland
P Patrick Fisher LSU
RB Richard Fitzhugh Tuskegee
DB Isaah Gardner Maryland
QB Chris Gibson Prairie View A&M
TE Jason Goode Maryland
RB Larry Graham St. Paul's College
DL Alex Hall St. Augustine
DL Rudolph Hardie Howard
OL Travis Harmon Howard
TE Joey Haynos Maryland
LB Erin Henderson Maryland
WR Bruce Hocker Duquesne
LB Joseph Hooks Shepherd
WR Fred Howze Frostburg State
DB Rickey Jackson Howard
OL Jerrick Jeffreys Bowie State
LB Chris Johnson Bowie State
QB Brian Johnson Howard
DB J.J. Justice Maryland
OL Torrain Kelly Bowie State
OL James Key Morgan State
RB Keon Lattimore Maryland
LB Jermaine Lemons Maryland
TE Ernie Lomax Hampton
DB Reggie McCoy Delaware State
LS Bren McDermond Maryland
DB Randall Means Howard
DB Roland Minor Virginia Tech
WR Rice Moss Syracuse
DB Paul Mulbah Duquesne
DB Colin Nelson Maryland
LB Kofi Nkrumah Morgan State
DB Anthony Olumba Norfolk State
WR Paul Perry Towson
FB Ian Pleasant Oklahoma
FB Owen Schmitt West Virginia
WR Arman Shields Richmond
OL John Sutherland Towson
DB Steven Tate Hofstra
LB Derron Thomas Duquesne
RB Brandon Toles S. Connecticut State
WR Jeremy Trimble Army
DB Christian Varner Maryland
WR Demarcus White Iona
WR Jarahn Williams Howard
DL Bryan Wilson Morgan State

Greg, even when receivers DO pan out, it still takes most receivers to make an impact.

Even Calvin Johnson - the "best receiver to come into the draft in the past 10 years," was a non-factor his first year. To say a rookie receiver will likely not make an impact is more than just a generalization - its a foregone conclusion. Someone posted stats of 1st round receivers for 10 years on extremeskins a while back - nearly half of the 1st rounders were viewed as complete busts. Of the other half, very few of them made significant contributions their 1st or 2nd years. The third year is when receivers, almost universally, start making an impact.

Going by what I saw on extremeskins, Statistically, Jordy Nelson (my favorite WR in the draft for us) has about a 50% chance of being on an NFL roster after 3 years. On the flip side, he has about a 50% chance of being of some value to us... in THREE YEARS. There is a very very very VERY small chance he would make an impact this year or even next. And the chances of him ever being a player as good as CJ are slim to none.

What it comes down to is this: If your snyder and you've got a 1st year head coach installing a new offensive system, is it better to gamble your 1st or 2nd round draft pick on a guy who MAY be average in 3 years but who will almost certainly do nothing for your team now... OR do you use that same 1st round pick to get a proven commodity, someone who will give your franchise QB some help, someone you KNOW will give you 1000+ yards for the next 5 years.

If we can get CJ for no more than a 1st round pick, if we believe he is a fit for this offense, and if we are confident that he will mesh with this team, his quarterback, and fellow receivers, then we would be FOOLS to not make this trade.

Chad Johnson is unquestionably one of the to 5 receivers in the NFL. He is a playmaker and a gamechanger. Chad Johnson gives us more touchdowns. Chad Johnson gives us more wins and at the end of the day, thats all I care about.

Nice list, marlon! Owen Schmitt would be a nice addition. We could usea true FB to back up Sellers.

The Maryland DBs are all horrible, BTW.

talkshow,

given that what you said is accurate, why should we draft WR at 21, especially considering the relative similarities available later on in the draft?

Curzon, I agree with you. I would be fine with trading for CJ, but only if Albert, Williams, Otah, Merling, and Harvey are all off the board at 21. OL/DL is top priority with this pick.

My gut feeling is that either Chris Williams or Merling will slip to 21... maybe that is wishful thinking on my part, but somebody usually slips on draft day.

TSH, I can't look it up but Andre Johnson, had 66 catches his rookie year. Braylon Edwards had something like 38. The cat from the Colts, Gonzales, had 37.

Again, you can't put all receivers in the same category.

To me, the gamble is bringing in a drama queen for Zorn to deal with. He's going to be over his head at times, CJ would just give him one more thing to worry about.

I was the 10:38 anon, forgot to add in the name.

TSH, I disliked a couple of things about that PFT article. They took some liberties with the numbers. The cap hit for CJ, if traded, would be $8 million. Period. That $8mil is the prorated bonus money left. The base salary saved doesn't offset this amount as the article leads you to believe. The salary would be cash saved but does not lessen the cap hit if traded. The cap hit/dead money still sits at $8 million.

NFL network is reporting Steve Mcnair is going to retire. This might be good news for the skins as this puts another team in need of a QB. Hopefully a team will trade up from the 2nd to get one of the second tier QBs.

It's simple. If they want to play it safe they will trade for a proven, older wide receiver who would require high salary. And you can do a lot worse than CJ. If they want higher risk/higher reward move, they will draft an unproven rookie, who is younger and would command a lower salary. If the rookie pans out, they could have a star who will be underpaid for a few years plus they would be able to use the extra cap space elsewhere. They could, for example, give a long term deal to one of their talented young players, like the did last year for Cooley. But if the rookie turns out to be a bust, they will be back to square 1, minus a draft pick. I could see the pros and cons to each approach.

I know he's shown himself to be a bit of a knucklehead these past couple of weeks, but if Malcolm Kelly were to slide well into the 2nd round I'd be for the skins drafting him. For what it's worth The Sporting News says he's one of the best blocking WR's they've ever scouted and he's got great hands. Admittedly his lack of speed and immaturity are a risk.

should have read your whole post, ts.

Johnson is "guaranteed" to do nothing next year let alone gain 1000 yds a year when he's 35. I'm also not sure he's the best WR on his current squad. Stats are of less meaning when a WR gets to this point in his career.

There are no guarantees with the drafts or with trades. We keep finding out the hard way that to gamble on a draft pick is usually less expensive and almost always less divisive than an FA.

What we know about CJ is that he's a primadonna and that he's been a distraction to his team. We also know that he's 30 and that he's sustained some injuries that will start to wear him down more as he gets older.

I'd much rather risk a pick on a young guy than give up a 1st rounder for CJ.

That said, I think there are enough decent WRs in this draft that are going to be around in the later rounds that we should go elswhere with #21.

NO WRs for a #1 pick, be they rookies or veteran headcases.

barney, the hit would be 8M, but 3M this year and almost 5M next.

PFT was making the point that the bengals, a historically cheap organization, would have to pay CJ less REAL money.

No thanks on Kelly. He showed his true colors when the chips weren't in his favor. How quick do you think he'd blame Campbell, or someone else for not catching a pass. This team has lots of needs, what they don't need is a drama queen, or a selfish player.

grow our own...

Hmm, I like the smell, ah, I mean sound of that!

Thanks TSH. I read the article and felt that they were playing with how they stated some things. Just wanted to make sure that the hit was understood.

This is some sad news. I remember when they drafted him. Thought he would be the next Joe Jacoby. So young.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8041802/Former-Redskins-DT-Kleine-dies-at-43

1. Malcolm Kelly has more demonstrated evidence of diva-to-be/bad character issues than Chad Johnson. Throw James Hardy in with the former too.

2. marlonjohn, THANKS! In a word, SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEET! Another punter in for an audition.

3. I read on one of the links in the previous thread about how Baltimore (#8) looks like the spot to which Matt Ryan would slide if he slides.

4. Have we talked about Leodis McKelvin?

5. Red f/ the DMV ... Chad Johnson is not too old to be a big, downfield receiver. The following are guys are older and show no signs of letting up: T.O., Plaxico, Marvin Harrison, Randy Moss, etc. Recent history shows that the guys who play that position seem like they can play forever, see Isaac Bruce and Keenan McCardell.

sween, don't forget Jerry Rice. Played well into his 30s.

At the local talent day (thanks again, marlonjohn), the other punter was Patrick Fisher from LSU. Local talent from Hyattsville went to DeMatha. First team all-SEC punter. In high school, averaged 47 plus yards as a punter and was 37 for 37 as a placekicker. PLUS, he blogs:

http://www.lsusports.net/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=27815&SPID=2164&DB_OEM_ID=5200&ATCLID=1353620

Haven't found any sites that ranked him though (most only rank the top 6-8 at punter).

1. Malcolm Kelly has more demonstrated evidence of diva-to-be/bad character issues than Chad Johnson. Throw James Hardy in with the former too.

Posted by: dcsween | April 17, 2008 11:21 AM

True, that is a risk. The tenacious blocking aspect intrigues me though. That's not a characteristic you'd normally see in a diva-type. Maybe sliding in the draft will wake him up.

The Skins site has a contest ... win a trip to Aruba ... with the cheerleaders for the calendar shoot. http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=28228

I haven't actually read the contest requirements, but someone told me that they want guys to send in a photo of themselves in a thong and, surprisingly, both chRIs Larry and Stephon Heyer are specifically ineligible.

dcsween you're welcome. Also the skins have talked to Leodis McKelvin. However, I just don't see them drafting another secondary player with their first pick.

Dc, Marvin H, seems to be going downhill. That knee injury he suffered never healed.

If the ravens don't get Matt Ryan at #8 then it'll be good news that McNair retired. That'll would put the Dolphins, Falcons, Ravens, Panthers all looking at QB in the second round. If I were those teams, I'd have the skins on speed dial.

dcsween you're welcome. Also the skins have talked to Leodis McKelvin. However, I just don't see them drafting another secondary player with their first pick.

Posted by: marlonjohn | April 17, 2008 11:34 AM

If one of the higher rated CB's were to slide I could definitely see the skins grabbing them. With Rogers hurt, Springs old, and Smoot average, CB is a big need.

We need a WR who can catch passes and be a difference maker, not be good at stalk blocking in the run game. Just read on nfl.com Kelly ran again for 3 teams on his surface and was still in the 4.6 range. His agent lied and said he ran a 4.4. Stay the hell away from this dude. I'd rather dradt no WR and take our chaces with what we have than bring this dude in.

heres the article
Posted: 15 hours 39 minutes ago E-mail

Kelly comes away with similar results after running again
NFL.com Wire Reports

OKLAHOMA CITY -- A week after loudly complaining about the surface he was forced to run on in front of NFL scouts, former Oklahoma receiver Malcolm Kelly got his second chance Wednesday.

Malcolm Kelly, WR
Oklahoma
Career Statistics
Gms/GS: 39/34
Recs: 144
Yds: 2,285
TDs: 21
His agent, Chad Speck, said he bettered his time in the 40-yard dash by more than two-tenths of a second in the workout at the University of Oklahoma.

Speck said Kelly ran the 40 as fast as 4.46 Wednesday after running a 4.68 on OU's pro day one week ago. But NFL.com's Gil Brandt reports Kelly ran the 40 in 4.63 and 4.65 in front of three NFL teams -- Cleveland, Green Bay and the New York Giants.

Kelly (6-3 7/8, 225) ran a 4.15 short shuttle, 6.83 cone drill, had 14 reps in the bench press and once again looked good catching the ball, reports Brandt. Former Nebraska quarterback Eric Crouch threw him 22 "catchable" passes, and Kelly caught all but one.

Speck said the scouts may have added time to his results to reflect the faster surface he was on Wednesday.

"There's nothing that we can do about, if a team decides to adjust it," Speck said.

"He ran much faster today."

Kelly complained after the workout last week that he had expected to run on the AstroTurf inside Oklahoma's indoor track facility, but was forced instead to run on a softer surface, resulting in the slower time. He has since apologized and thanked OU for setting up the latest workout.

Kelly said the workout went well.

"Like I said, last week I made a lot of immature decisions going off like that," said Kelly, who complained that the slow time would cost him money, a red flag for NFL teams.

He said he spoke with OU coach Bob Stoops for more than an hour and there are no hard feelings.

"He told me I never game him any trouble. He just said there's no bad blood between us."

Speck dismissed speculation that Kelly's outburst about the first workout would cause his draft stock to fall. Kelly left after the workout for Washington, D.C., to meet with the Washington Redskins, followed by a meeting Thursday with the Dallas Cowboys, then with the San Francisco 49ers Friday.

If we can get CJ for no more than a 1st round pick, if we believe he is a fit for this offense, and if we are confident that he will mesh with this team, his quarterback, and fellow receivers, then we would be FOOLS to not make this trade.

Posted by: talkshowhost | April 17, 2008 11:00 AM

The Bengals will want more than a 1st round pick to let him go.
Chad does NOT fit the West Coast offense. (He would have been a great fit for the Gibbs offense.) Chad fit in with his new teammates and Zorn? Not likely.

Save your money and save your draft picks. Vote NO on Chad Johnson.

I say stay away from any receivers until at least the third round.

All of the 30+ receivers that you mention, sween, have probably seen their best days, except maybe Moss, IMO.

If the ravens don't get Matt Ryan at #8 then it'll be good news that McNair retired. That'll would put the Dolphins, Falcons, Ravens, Panthers all looking at QB in the second round. If I were those teams, I'd have the skins on speed dial.

Posted by: | April 17, 2008 11:43 AM

It wouldn't surprise me to see the Vikings screw up those plans and take a QB at 17.

+++As Jasno pointed out, we didn't free up all that capspace for nothing. Snyder wants CJ. CJ wants to be a redskin. Drew Rosenhaus is involved. I view it as a matter of when, not if
--TALKSHOWHOST++++

Well put. Snyder and the cap are like an Alcoholic and booze. Sure, Danny is going to the meetings, speaking up about his addictions to Deion, Bruce Smith, Arch, Receiver, The Wide, and so on, and swearing to stay dry.

But by Gawd, when a aged Single Malt like CJ is sitting on the bar, how can a man say "no."

Yeah, Snyder loves CJ and Jasno's analysis shows how scary the 'skins WR situation is. Essentially, they got Nada.

MOSS may be a chronic Hammie...

ARE is a great utility man, not an imposing threat.

THRASH is old.

MIX is unproven.

Someone wrote about JLC putting out the Olive Branch to Danny. Well, Jasno just poured the man a double shot of single-malt looooove.

re: BJ

Just Say No

The cap hit/dead money still sits at $8 million.

Posted by: BCBarney | April 17, 2008 11:07 AM

He can be traded after June 1st which will spread that cap hit over two years. Also, if he is cut before June 1st, he can be designated as a post-June 1st transaction for splitting the cap hit over 2 years. The cited article was correct.

re: BJ

Just Say No

Posted by: Nancy R. | April 17, 2008 11:47 AM

sorry typo, meant to say

re: CJ

Just Say No

i have a feeling the bengals' stance on CJ has to do with them trying to get a high pick in this year's draft. come june 1st, if he's still not showing up, and with the cap hit much lower, they'd probably be more amenable to a couple of picks not in the first round in future drafts. say like a 3rd one year and a 4th next. or maybe just a 2nd next year. it's hard to demand a 1st rounder when everyone knows you don't really want the guy anymore, and he's not the youngest, and he has a large salary.

perfect situation would be for the skins to get him in june. and go through the draft as if he wasn't in their plans. because even with CJ, we still have 2 other receivers who aren't young and happen to be extremely injury prone (if anything, making their bodies potentially "older" than CJ's). so having an highly rated rookie WR on the team wouldn't be so bad. because he would have a year or two to really develop before being pressed into every down territory. but until then CJ, Moss, and ARE would make for a great trio. and cooley would end up wit ha bunch of favorable matchups.

i have a feeling the skins will not be able to trade out of their pick. the only way i see that happening is if one of the good DE's fall to them, and if that's the case, they're going to want to stay there and take him. maybe if a high level cb is still there someone will bite. heck, even dropping back a few picks and being able to pick up another 3rd or 4th rounder wouldn't be so bad. at worse you get the same player, but at a reduced salary...

cdubb, thanks for posting that. I'm laughing out loud at Kelly. Stay away from that cat. He and his scumbag agent.

I think that will be a ton of money invested at one position. Also, there are good CB's prospect in the second and third round.

Randle El is 92.7 now. He's saying that he's excited about the new offense, because it should be more balanced. He said he's not bashing Gibbs, but hi conservative style was frusrating at times not only to him but with other players as well, because when the skins opened up the offense (pass) they were able to move the ball up and down the field.

I posted the last comment. Sorry mtnskinfan, still getting used to the new format.

I dont think getting CJ is going to solve the lack of inside possession receiver for the west coast offense problem everybody is talking about. CJ doesnt mind getting hit but I hardly think he will be happy (with his 30 yo body) to go in the middle of the field to make catches against linebackers all day so I can see him getting ornery half way into the season.

No worries MJ. A DE or OT like Merling or Williams/Albert is still my first choice but I wouldn't complain if they went with a top CB. Is it really likely that Springs will be here for more than one more season?

FUNNY thing about WRs...

They tend to get open more when...

1. The QB has more time to throw to them.

2. The ground game is working, forcing DBs to cheat up.

Hmmmm. Who could the skins draft to make THAT happen?

LINEMEN LINEMEN LINEMEN

Grab a bunch of Big Uglies...shorten the game...open the secondary..you listening Danny?

Fat chance.

Just a thought while killing time til the 26th...or til Danny pulls the trigger on a Glamor deal like CJ.

The Skins are pretty solid at WR. There will be camp competition for the 4th WR position between Thrash and Mathis. And between Mix, Toler, McMullen, Mann, a draft pick, and FAs for the 5th spot.

They also have two good TEs in Cooley and Yoder. Ecker is still an unknown, but he's big at 6-6, 246lbs.

I hope the Skins draft a 2nd-3rd round WR and 5th-to-7th round TE. It's way past time to find a backup TE... Ecker should definitely compete for the 3rd TE spot. He needs to prove he can backup Cooley/Yoder and stay healthy.

++++

re: BJ

Just Say No

Posted by: Nancy R. | April 17, 2008 11:47 AM

sorry typo, meant to say

re: CJ

Just Say No

Posted by: Nancy R. | April 17, 2008 11:50 AM++++

Does this mean you're saying "yes" to the BJ?

Cork, I'm with you. Brandon Keith in the third, Otah if he's there in the first, and there are no DE's worth that pick.

Randel El is chatting on espn.com/nfl at 12:30 today

Grab a bunch of Big Uglies...shorten the game...open the secondary..you listening Danny?
Fat chance.
Just a thought while killing time til the 26th...or til Danny pulls the trigger on a Glamor deal like CJ.
Posted by: Corkczar | April 17, 2008 12:07 PM

Didn't Danny's lawyer just prove that Danny does have eyes on this blog? If we keep "suggesting" things, we may get our wish......

The cited article was correct.

Posted by: tafka | April 17, 2008 11:49 AM

I wasn't certain on the spreading out of the cap hit for traded players. I've since looked that info and did some CBA reading. The article was correct in that regards. My issue with the article was with how they phrased some of the savings from the base salary.
One thing that I did note in the CBA is that for contracts removed from the roster before 6/1, only a cut player can be deemed as a post 6/1 transaction. So a player traded prior to 6/1 would not have the cap hit spread between two years.

NFL network is reporting Steve Mcnair is going to retire. This might be good news for the skins as this puts another team in need of a QB. Hopefully a team will trade up from the 2nd to get one of the second tier QBs.

Posted by: marlonjohn | April 17, 2008 11:09 AM

Ravens have pick #38, but they don't have a 3rd rounder they can trade. If you trade down with them I think you're taking their #2 this year and their #2 next year.

tsh, thanks for posting that article.

The problem isn't with the Bengals cap. It will be with the Redskins cap. If this happens, which I hope it doesn't, and it happens in June, the Redskins most likely will have signed a rookie, or two, thus REDUCING the amount of cap space they have. Its not like the Redskins have 15 million in cap space. They have 7 mill, and after you sign 9 rookies and some College free agents, how much is going to be left? I just don't see this happening.

Posted by: Greg | April 17, 2008 10:02 AM

This is incorrect. We have $7 mil after the rookie pool.

OK I just saw the clip on Malcolm Kelly on nfl.com and would like to offer a complete and utter retraction of my earlier post stating how I wouldn't mind the skins drafting him in the 2nd round. Evidently the player he idolized in the pros was none other than Michael Irvin. LOL. I therefore withdraw any previous support that I've given him. My bad. (he does have good hands though).

Mcnair retires

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080417/ap_on_sp_fo_ne/fbn_ravens_mcnair_retires

You might know this already:

Dinged DE to have late workout... According to a report first reported by Scout.com injured Clemson DE Phillip Merling will have a special on-campus workout just a couple of days before the draft on April 24. Merling, who had been considered a potential top ten pick earlier in the year, has been unable to work out for teams since undergoing sports hernia surgery in March.

Also, it surprises me how Jasno has been oblivios in the past two posts about CJ to the fact that the Bengals cut/trade Johnson NOW and designate him as a post june 1st cut, thereby minimizing the cap hit this year. Jasno is aware of the rule - as he informed us that we applied this rule when we cut Lloyd - why does he not understand that other teams, in this case the Bengals, can do the same thing?

Posted by: talkshowhost | April 17, 2008 10:16 AM

Yes, the Bengals can do the same thing BUT, if you were going to do this you would either do it right before free agency to free up money OR AFTER the draft. If you trade him you don't get to use the cut rule.

Redskins | D. Thomas visited Tuesday
Wed, 16 Apr 2008 22:26:05 -0700

Adam Schefter, of the NFL Network, reports Michigan State WR Devin Thomas visited the Washington Redskins Tuesday, April 15.

Patriots | Belichick on the draft
Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:52:47 -0700

John Tomase, of the Boston Herald, reports New England Patriots head coach Bill Belichick believes in taking the best player available in the NFL Draft. He stated that it is always better to draft a player that can help the team in a year or two, rather than drafting for need and getting stuck with a player that can't play. "It's about getting the best value for your pick, and that's a very inexact science," Belichick said. "Sometimes you're right. Sometimes you're wrong."

The Merling workout could be good either way. If he tears it up, that means someone will grab him before 21, but it also gives the chances of someone falling a boost.

If he has a so-so workout, then he'll be available at 21.

Could be good for the Redskins either way.

he Skins are pretty solid at WR. There will be camp competition for the 4th WR position between Thrash and Mathis. And between Mix, Toler, McMullen, Mann, a draft pick, and FAs for the 5th spot.

They also have two good TEs in Cooley and Yoder. Ecker is still an unknown, but he's big at 6-6, 246lbs.

I hope the Skins draft a 2nd-3rd round WR and 5th-to-7th round TE. It's way past time to find a backup TE... Ecker should definitely compete for the 3rd TE spot. He needs to prove he can backup Cooley/Yoder and stay healthy.

Posted by: Siris | April 17, 2008 12:09 PM

I totally disagree with this statement! We are not solid at WR. Moss is injury prone, ARE is not a #2 WR (more of a slot guy) and by reading your post, who would be the #3? I agree with drafting a WR in the middle of the draft but we are not solid at the position! And, Mix is not the answer. If he had any chance to be a big suprise, we would be hearing more about him, and the front office wouldn't be trying to solidify the position ( hence the signing of Mathis). THis group of WR's is o.k. but not solid or great by any strech!

There are three ways of looking at this:

1) Draft a young wide receiver that can catch and has size and be patient as he develops.

2) Get Chad Johnson...he's better than any receiver we have and any receiver in college.

Draft a receiver and get Chad Johnson

talkshow,

given that what you said is accurate, why should we draft WR at 21, especially considering the relative similarities available later on in the draft?

Posted by: Larry Bud | April 17, 2008 11:05 AM

------------------------------------------

Larry Bud - we shouldn't take a receiver with our pick at 21. But it was assumed that the talent in the later rounds is even worse than the first, so you are taking an even BIGGER gamble on a WR in later rounds.

Its my personal beleif that vacancies at skill positions like Receiver and CB are best filled in free agency. They are among the riskiest positions in the draft. They are positions where it is worth paying a premium to have a known comodity.

Yes, NOTHING is a sure thing. But CJ is a proven elite player at a position of immediate need for us, a position where the draft has historically produced a high percentage of busts, and this draft is fairly weak at stud players. The risk/reward factor in drafting a WR is horrible.

And consider this: By the time good WRs (the 50% that arent busts) typically start to perform really good and come in to their own, their rookie contracts are expiring... which means the team is faced with giving them the big bucks or losing them. With a Veteran WR like CJ, the team is skipping that whole process and getting a player who is head and shoulders better now than anyone EXPECTS ANY receiver in this draft class to be. There are no WRs in this draft class even expected to be perenial pro-bowlers. CJ is just that.

I agree with Redryan...

We are not solid at WR. We have no one who cabn catch a fade in the endzone or catch a jumpball. During a playoff run, it was hard to get a look at Mix. At 6'5" 230 how sorry can he be? I'd like to see him get a real shot. If (and it's a big IF), Moss is healthy and we have a solid #2, that's an upgrade right there.

Where can we hear you're show, talkshowhost?

This is why I questioned J-Lac's argument for filling the void with DJ Hackett. To me he's another Santana Moss just a couple of inches taller. Are defenses going to double him? He played 6 games last year. I think the Skins are doing the right thing by staying in the lurch with CJ. Moss has a career year with Johnson on the other side.

Santana could totally catch a jump ball, if the other people jumping were also short.

I'm just sayin'

Thanks sicwidit,

I think Mix deserves a shot, but not being able to make the roster of the super bowl champs scares me a little! I agree that if we can get a solid #2 WR then our core group of WR's will be solid. Until then, they are just an average group. Nelson from K-state looks strong. He had a TD in almost every game, and he killed my Longhorns last year! If he is still around in rd 3 that would be a huge steal!

You can't outshort Santana Moss.

Drafting a wideout is risky; no sure things in this draft.

I have a baaaaad feeling about Limas Sweed; just intuition, but I think he's a bust. Same feeling about Malcolm Kelly.

Chad Johnson should be in a Redskins uniform by June,

Interesting article on PFT about the Chiefs trying to trade J.Allen to the Vikes or Bucs before the draft.
I wonder if Danny can sit still, watch this unfold, and not get involved.

Cherilus, Mendenhall visit Broncos

Illinois running back Rashard Mendenhall, projected as a first-round pick, and Boston College offensive tackle Gosder Cherilus, who is expected to go late in the first or early in the second, visited with the Denver Broncos coaches and officials Wednesday.

The 6-foot-7, 314-pound Cherilus was a right tackle until he switched to left tackle in his senior season. Which is nothing compared to the adjustment he made from growing up playing soccer in Haiti to moving to the United States at age 14 and playing football for the first time as a high school sophomore.

The Broncos are considering taking Mendenhall, Oregon running back Jonathan Stewart, Miami safety Kenny Phillips, North Carolina defensive tackle Kentwan Balmer, receivers DeSean Jackson of Cal and Oklahoma's Malcolm Kelly or any number of offensive tackles, including Cherilus, with their first-round draft pick April 26

Malcolm Kelly, yup, the handwriting is on the wall with this guy. He's already making excuses.

Sweed, I'm not so sure about. I think he'll be a player.

All of the 30+ receivers that you mention, sween, have probably seen their best days, except maybe Moss, IMO.

Posted by: Larry Bud | April 17, 2008 11:46 AM

Agree to disagree. I'm saying that both T.O. and Plaxico will have more yards and more TDs this coming season than they did this past one. Not that I feel good about this outcome -- is just that they each have one less game involving Sean Taylor.

Deborah was the one with the exploding implant, not DeBORah.

I think Mix deserves a shot, but not being able to make the roster of the super bowl champs scares me a little!

Posted by: redryan400 | April 17, 2008 12:56 PM

It shouldn't. The Giants were fairly loaded at WR. Besides Burress and Toomer they had Sinorice Moss and I forget who else.

Let's get real about Chad Johnson:

No reasonable person should be expected to play for the Bengals and not be pissed about it. Anyone of us would also be demanding a trade out of that stink pot.

The Redskins may have lapsed into mediocrity, but can at least claim a storied past.

The Bengals? Not so much. The phrase exercise in futility comes to mind.

To top it off, the Bengal's front office is intent on punishing Chad Johnson for what amounts to calling a spade a spade. The man is right on point with his criticisms of that pathetic franchise and they know it.

Why they would want Chad to play one more down for them is also a mystery.

Let the man go and bring his prolific touchdown celebrations to Fed Ex field. If it happens, the fans will be eating it up.

This team has too many needs to keep ignoring proven talent. We need at least one sure thing:

#85

Deborah was the one with the exploding implant, not DeBORah.

Posted by: Cindy | April 17, 2008 1:03 PM

Who is this person with implant problem?

Interesting article on PFT about the Chiefs trying to trade J.Allen to the Vikes or Bucs before the draft.

I wonder if Danny can sit still, watch this unfold, and not get involved.

Posted by: Matt | April 17, 2008 1:00 PM

Given the off-season this far, as well as chatter from Blache (who is NOT a known liar) about seeking DT rather than DE, I can't see it happening. Plus, Minny has to be preparing to sell the farm for a defensive end ... I wouldn't be surprised if they still drafted a DE with their first pick even if they DID get Allen. Their good DE (Ukezi) has leukemia and the other one is fabled bust, Erasmus James.

"With a Veteran WR like CJ, the team is skipping that whole process and getting a player who is head and shoulders better now than anyone EXPECTS ANY receiver in this draft class to be."-TSH

Not sure I agree. He may put up better numbers this season, but I think you get a guy whose negatives would counter that production.

And isn't this the same logic that landed us Lloyd, Brandon, Arch Deluxe, Dan Wilkinson, Dana Stubblefield, Deion Sanders, etc. and led us to cap hell?

I know we've had some FA success with guys like Moss, but as much as I like ARE personally I think he's a vet FA that we're still waiting on to fit in.

I also don't think we should underestimate the fact that CJ would have to learn the same system that a rookie would.

Deborah was the one with the exploding implant, not DeBORah.

Posted by: Cindy | April 17, 2008 1:03 PM

Who is this person with implant problem?

Posted by: Greg | April 17, 2008 1:06 PM

Last week on "30 Rock" (when fake NBC debuted "MILF Island").

Also not sure I agree about the talent pool at WR being horrible after the first few.

Go back and read my posts on Marcus Monk compared to Linus Sweed. They're close to identical.

As the blog's lone displaced Skins fan in Indiana (that I know of), and a grad student at IU for the past 2 years-- I am hereby annointing myself the "James Hardy expert." Ask Nate-- I've been pushing for this guy since summer of 2007! I know his stats, character issues, etc. Hell, my prof mentor even TAUGHT the guy (and I got to sit in). He's a great guy and has great work ethic-- he's matured a lot and would be a great 2nd round acquisition. I can go on and on, but I know what I'm talking about, yo!

P.S.- for those of you monitoring my FB/ FB sitch-- I got into Cornell and might play for their football team, though I'm thinking I'm gonna defer for a year and keep training and/or apply to other schools.

" ... but as much as I like ARE personally I think he's a vet FA that we're still waiting on to fit in. ..."

Posted by: Larry Bud | April 17, 2008 1:07 PM

I think they paid too much for ARE (as well as Carter). Don't get me wrong, I think both guys are solid and key to the effective operation of the machine, but I think that whole FA class (the one that included Receiver, The and Archuleta) was overpaid.

Sween, I agree... not that it matters anyway since the Skins would have to give up more than the Bucs and Vikes since they both pick before them. But my hope is that the Vikes make this trade because that would surely help Merling fall to 21. I got a feeling about this guy and if Albert is gone (and everyone seems to think he will be) than I would love to add Merling.

I think Bud might be onto something with Marcus Monk.

Cerrato, are you listening?

How anyone could argue that Chad Johnson is a negative contributor to a football team is beyond absurd, however.

The man scores touchdowns.

PERIOD!

In Don Bank's mocked draft this morning, he also projected Branden Albert going way early (and Merling to the Skins). What surprised me was how many other good offensive linemen he had going after #21, esp. the other offensive tackles (I think Otah and Cherilus).

They need to get bigger on offense for running the ball. Portiss, Moss, and ARE are all 30-50 lbs less than the typical rb or wr in the league. Look at jacksonville they have a great running game and I think having 5 Wr's that are over 6'5" makes a big impact. We lost some close games last year where we went to the jumbo run package and didnt get it into the end zone or get the first down. If you get some big WRs they are more of a threat in short yardarge and if it is a run play can do a better job of blocking. Moss and ARE are great wide recievers to get you deep plays or get you to the red zone, there value goes way down once you get there.

football is a game of poistional matches and we need oversized guys not undersized to have a power running game and impose our will on offense, or defense for that matter. You want a team where the other side knows what play you are going to run and can't stop you, and you need oversized physical players at most positions to accomplish this. it can't be all smurfs you have to have some ogres.

Steve Slaton, RB, WVU.

Go get this guy in the later rounds.

He can help on special teams and has great hands out of the backfield.

Think Brian Westbrook?

I think they paid too much for ARE

DC, if they can bring in a solid WR, who can contribute 20-35 receptions, then I think we'll start to see ARE get open more often, and he'll be more of an asset.

Having a proven deep threat will not only help ARE, but will also improve the running game; play action passes, and the like.

The Redskins need an immediate contributor on offense. No one in the draft fits that bill.

#85 does.

There are three ways of looking at this:

1) Draft a young wide receiver that can catch and has size and be patient as he develops.

2) Get Chad Johnson...he's better than any receiver we have and any receiver in college.

Draft a receiver and get Chad Johnson

Posted by: sicwidit | April 17, 2008 12:47 PM
-------------------------------------------

Also to be considered is whether there are any stud WRs expected to hit the free agent market next year. In an ideal world, we wouldnt have so many needs, but we have alot right now.

If we don't think theres any way we can be competitive, then we shouldnt draft chad johnson... On the other hand, if we're giving up on the next 2-3 years and trying to rebuild, we should use one of our 1st two picks on a WR we really believe will be somebody (just like we did with Rod Gardner, Darnerian McCants, and Taylor Jacobs--that worked so well for us, didnt it?)

Really, I think we NEED a receiver like Chad Johnson to even havea chance to compete in our division.

The Giants have a dominating defense that humiliated the Patriots record breaking offense in the superbowl. The Eagles have Asante Samuel and may keep Lito Shepard. Dallas' defense is more suspect, but they have a plethora of draft picks and may very well have pacman. We NEED a receiver who can challenge those defenses and give us a chance to win our divisional games.

"They need to get bigger on offense for running the ball. Portiss, Moss, and ARE are all 30-50 lbs less than the typical rb or wr in the league"

Moss weighs 200
Portis weighs 223
ARE weighs 192

They need to have more games played by the STARTING offensive line.

"We lost some close games last year where we went to the jumbo run package and didnt get it into the end zone"

Because they were so predictable. Everyone know that the Redskins were running the ball, and running in up the middle. In 1984 that worked great, in 2007, not so much. The "jumbo package" was a dead-give away, of what the play was going to be.

Lining up a receiver like Chad Johnson complicates the opponents defensive game plan.

The Redskins really do need #85.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-covetingdefensivelinemen041508&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Interesting article on DLmen. Emphasis on speed rushers playing DT. After reading it it makes me doubt Merling will be there at 21.

Yep!

Chad Johnson is needed to stay competitive with the Giants and Cowboys.

This CJ talk may all be moot. I missed this earlier from PFT:

BENGALS STILL NOT WAVERING ON JOHNSON
Posted by Mike Florio on April 17, 2008, 11:03 a.m.
Even as Bengals receiver Chad Johnson continues to increase the rhetoric regarding his desire to be traded to a new team, and his intention not to report for mandatory offseason training camps and/or training camp, we continue to hear that the team will not trade him.

Of course, that doesn't stop another team from making them an offer. But we're also hearing that no one is interested in acquiring Johnson.

Why would they be? With each word that rambles out of his mouth in his effort to be traded, he makes himself less desirable to any other team. He has become a cartoon character who also happens to play football, and we can't imagine any team coughing up draft picks and/or players in order get him.

JLC:

I realize that this may take you far out of your comfort zone, but do you think you could provide some insight on Tyler Ecker before taking a shot at the "ample intriguing prospects at this position on the street after the draft"?

Posted by: drbatchelor | April 17, 2008 8:17 AM

You want some inside info on TE's? The team is taking a long hard look at local prospect Andrew Atchison, the TE from Will and Mary and the team will probably sign him as an UDFA after the draft.

i thought it was interesting that NO ONE was interested in Johnson... not even us.

always take the best player reguardless of position......if cj is the best player available with our 3rd pick then make the trade, but don't give much more than that....sounds like this years draft is very weak overall.....teams need to be supersmart in evaluating talent mid/late, thats where the real value is,we need to find some players and we need them at every position, we have plenty of picks, can vinny deliver?........

Chad Johnson is a terrific player and a terrible fit.

Johnson has been hard on his coach and his QB. The Skins have a HC that has never been more than a position coach and an OC that has never been an OC. Their QB has 1 year of game experience.

In business, most managers will tell you that 10% of the employees soak up 90% of their time. Chad Johnson is one of those. Zorn needs to spend time getting the team right, and Johnson would be a huge risk. And I would hate to see CJ do to Campbell what his IS doing to Palmer.

os, "sounds like this years draft is very weak overall", I've read just the opposite. That while weak at the very front of the draft, it is actually a very deep draft, with talent to be had in the third round and beyond.

talkshowhost,

Chad Johnson has every right to be pissed, to want out of that putrid mess in Cinci.

Come on, brother! The man is in the prime of his career. He is a GREAT football player.

Touchdown!

Of cooooooooooourse!

Chad Johnson has no ill effect on the Bengals:

They sucked before CJ, and they will suck after.

Larrybud,

Tests aren't until mid-May... No movies until then... Although we're doing a "space" unit in Science so I'm thinking about letting them watch Apollo 13. That or Flash Gordon.

Count me in the big ugly camp... OK, that came out wrong.

Draft Big Uglies.

DBU.

So a player traded prior to 6/1 would not have the cap hit spread between two years.

Posted by: BCBarney | April 17, 2008 12:18 PM

That's correct, regarding spreading the cap hit over two years. The only way to get the same effect with a trade is wait until after June 1st to make the trade.

It may sound silly, but the most critical thing the Skins need from the draft are players that can play at the NFL level. They can fill in gaps via trades or FA. Much like they did with guys like McCardell or Collins.

Each year, lots of draft choices never make it, even very high ones. The Skins need to avoid 'busts' more than they need to get a great player.

And I hope they don't try to draft a QB. There are always #3 QBs available who have NFL experience. Yeah, maybe there is another Tom Brady. But there are a lot more guys like Jordan Palmer.

Dorf,

Spaceballs should work.

The Bengals squander talent like Palmer and Johnson.

Jason Campbell would be thrilled to have CJ to throw the ball to, and so would Zorn, and so will the 85,000 screaming fans at Fed Ex.

All the other issues surrounding CJ are inconsequential.

HE WANTS OUT OF CINCI. Who can blame him?

You could even have them do the calculations for how fast Ludicrous Worp is.

....He saved everyone of us!

Being called an idiot on RI is the same as calling Chia Pet a broken record. We got it, you are on his nuts.

I think it's a very solid draft class. It may not have as wide a variety of flashy players or potential franchise individuals, but it's the kind of draft in which a team with a lot of picks can really build smartly.
And, after the first round, I agree with Old School's approach.

Ahhh Freddie... Rest In Peace.

I saw that TE from W&M play last fall. Kid is a beast. NFL size for sure. Nice tip Zoro.

TDawg - you know Andy Bernard went to Cornell. If football doesn't work out there's always A Capella or Ultimate Frisbee.

If you have heard of more than three (maybe four) of THESE first round picks, then you probably have a mock draft problem ...

http://www.newerascouting.com/home/287-7-round-small-school-mock/

If we trade, I'd rather get Pacman than CJ, provided the price is right. Goodall's comments indicate he'll reinstate Pacman in time for the opener. Pacman is not a bad locker room guy. If he can behave off the field, he'd fit in. The guy has electric ability and is young. Take a chance for a third and fifth rounder; give him an incentive-laden contract. Skins need to take some chances to up their talent level, especially at CB. Springs is injury-prone because of age and will be gone next year; I'm not sold on Rogers; Smoot is a good #3. Good CBs cost a high #1 in the draft, which is too much given all our other needs.

" ... you know Andy Bernard went to Cornell. ..."

Posted by: Dorf | April 17, 2008 1:56 PM

Oh, D ... oh, D ...

How about we get a tight end and move Cooley to the receiver position sometimes??? Wouldn't that work to our benefit. He could potentially be a big receiver and also be a tight end if need be.

+++Chad Johnson is needed to stay competitive with the Giants and Cowboys.

Posted by: Chia Pet | April 17, 2008 1:32 PM++++

Respectfully disagree, Chia. Unfortunately, one good WR next year won't put the 'skins on an even keel with the NFC East. Skins have a backbreaker sked, new coaches and aging vets on both lines.

FIRST, the skins need to REBUILD THEIR LINES.

Draft LINEMEN high, then add WRs in the mid-rounds, letting them develop and grow.

The pokes and the Giants are strong because they've built through the draft, frequently at the non-skill positions. They then supplemented with WRs (Plax, TO) through free agency and trades, as did the 18-1 Patriots.

It's nuts to draft a WR high (Westbrook, Gardner, etc.), or bring in a head case like CJ, (can you say Laverneus Coles, Jr.?) whose skills will fade as the team gets stronger--if indeed it does get stronger, having forfeited picks and cap room to get him.

Draft building blocks NOW. Supplement later. This is NOT a playoff team this Fall, even if the health of its aging lines holds up.

" ... And, after the first round, I agree with Old School's approach. ..."

Posted by: Cindy | April 17, 2008 1:53 PM

Agree to agree.

that small school mock draft is ridiculous. No love for JMU either. 4 time All-American Tony LeZotte doesn't go until the 3rd round.

Traveshamockery.

"If we trade, I'd rather get Pacman than CJ, provided the price is right."

And we have a front runner for silliest blog statement of the day!

I think Mix deserves a shot, but not being able to make the roster of the super bowl champs scares me a little!
Posted by: redryan400 | April 17, 2008 12:56 PM

Actually, this might be a positive....the Giants drafted Mix (or signed him as an FA, whatever).....they won the SB using shrewd moves in recent drafts and free agency, so their front office looks like it can spot talent. Apprently they put him on waivers hoping to keep him, so it looks like they really liked him, but had their money invested elsewhere. Also keep in mind that they put Ryan Grant on waivers as well....the Packers picked him up and look what he did for them last year.......

All indications are Mix is going to be in the Mix....but that shouldnt stop them from exploring other options considering Mix is unproven.

But yes I think he can be a contributer!

people going nuts for mixed are called: Mixed Nuts!

You might be right!

JLC keeps bringing the hate:

"Maybe one day it's Anthony Mix, but that's hardly a sure thing at this point (after all, he was playing way behind guys like McCardell and Caldwell, who the Skins essentially kicked to the curb this offseason)."

So, in the first place, does Mix have to be "a sure thing?" Mix, like anyone else you steal off of someone's practice squad is a gamble. He may work out and he may not. So why does he have to be "a sure thing."?

And Caldwell was "kicked to the curb?" The Redskins offered him a contract, which he didn't accept. How is offering someone a contract equivalent to "kicking them to the curb"?

people going nuts for mixed are called: Mixed Nuts!

Posted by: chris larry | April 17, 2008 2:06 PM

People going nuts for the Caps are called just plain nuts.

F Anon........wimp

Wow that a Janso bash reach if I haver seen one....

And for the record azz wipe I consider myself a newly minted Mixed Not....and if loving the Caps is nutz call me that all day...

but keep on keeping on anon, your ability to suck the fun out of something is uncanny, like an X-men mutant power!

And Caldwell was "kicked to the curb?" The Redskins offered him a contract, which he didn't accept. How is offering someone a contract equivalent to "kicking them to the curb

Its called playing both sides of the fence. If they signed Caldwell, it would have been, "they over paid for a marginal player, Dan Snyder is playing fantasy football again".

http://was.scout.com/2/746679.html

Schedule with pretty good commentary

Don't worry about the Caps, CL. I had a quick chat with the Pope and he's putting in a word with the big man upstairs.

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