BONG!

Draft Dish: Great offensive debates for '08
March 31, 2008 Print it

By Russ Lande

As we reach the end of individual campus workouts for most of the top 2008 NFL draft prospects, nearly all of the 32 teams' scouts return to their respective facilities to begin the final set of predraft meetings. Most teams' draft meetings involve all the scouts, pertinent coaches, scouting directors and the general manager.

Although many of the player evaluations go pretty smoothly because most observers in the same organization tend to view the same player similarly, there always are several prospects whose pro potential leads to arguments -- sometimes quite heated.

Below is one prospect from each offensive position who has become a subject of great debate heading up to draft decision day '08:

Joe Flacco, QB, Delaware. Flacco (6-6 1/4, 237) is a tall, strong-armed quarterback about whom scouts have been talking since they evaluated Delaware tight end Ben Patrick during the '06 season and the buzz has just gotten stronger. Prior to the '08 Senior Bowl, many others viewed Flacco as simply a scout's invention and wondered if he was really as gifted as scouts had been telling their teams. Then Flacco went out and had a solid week of practices in Mobile. He did not dominate, but he definitely showed the arm strength and the quick release that are very hard to find.

The debate will center around Flacco having started his college career at Pittsburgh, where he arrived the year after a stellar freshman season from then Panthers quarterback Tyler Palko. Flacco was immediately stuck behind Palko on the depth chart and after backing up Palko for a few seasons, Flacco chose to transfer to Delaware for the chance to play.

Some NFL people will voice the opinion that either a) "He couldn't beat out Palko, who is barely hanging on in the NFL, this kid is a big-time prospect?" or b) "He choose to transfer to another school instead of continuing to battle Palko, knowing that in the worst case he would get one full season as a starter after Palko was done at Pitt?" or c) He transferred to Delaware instead of another Division 1-A school where he might have had the chance to really stick it to Pitt?"

Rest assured that the battle over where to place Flacco on team draft boards around the league will not only be vocal, but will lead to his final grade varying tremendously from team to team.

Ray Rice, RB, Rutgers. Rice (5/8 1/8, 198), very productive in his three years as a Scarlet Knight, was expected to be a first-round pick after he made the decision to forgo his senior season. But when he arrived at the Combine and measured so lightly, he slid down draft boards all around the league.

The debate on Rice will come down to those people who want to base the bulk of his grade on his on-field performance during his three years at Rutgers and those people who will not care how productive he was or how athletic he is and will only look at his size because backs his size have historically struggled to make it in the NFL.

Although there are many reasons to love Rice and feel that he will turn out to be a better pro than a number of the backs who eventually get drafted ahead of him, there is little doubt that he will get drafted below backs who were not nearly as productive or durable in college, but are bigger and look more like NFL backs walking around in shorts and a T-shirt.

Jerome Felton, FB, Furman. Felton (5-11 1/2, 242) is a big, strong and very skilled athlete who we, along with many in the NFL, feel has the talent to become a good all-around starting fullback. A big part of the debate about him, however, will stem from the fact that Felton was primarily a ballcarrier at Furman and has limited experience as a lead blocker. Additionally, he struggled through a disappointing senior season after a great junior year. It's a matter if teams think their coaches believe that Felton can be taught to block as well as the scouts believe he has the natural athleticism to do so.

Dexter Jackson, WR, Appalachian State. Jackson (5-9 5/8, 184) has turned himself into a player who will cause much debate with his outstanding spring (Shrine Game, Senior Bowl and Combine) after finishing an inconsistent college career. Scouts who evaluated him off Appalachian State game film, including us in The War Room, have felt he is a gifted athlete who has struggled with inconsistent hands, making him best suited to be either a fourth- or fifth-round pick.

However, many NFL coaches' first exposure to Jackson was his performance as the Senior Bowl and then the show he put on at the Combine, so their initial view of him was likely as a second-round prospect, and this is where the debate begins. Scouts will bring up his inconsistent play at Appalachian State and argue that he isn't consistent enough to warrant being drafted as high as his postseason has pushed him, but coaches will argue that he showed the athleticism, hands and smarts to be coached to play as well as he did at the all-star games and Combine.

This debate will like cause Jackson's draft value to be high in NFL clubs where the coaches have the real power, but lower in NFL clubs where the scouting department has more pull and will definitely lead to some great internal back-and-forth during some draft meetings.

Kellen Davis, TE, Michigan State. Davis (6-6 5/8, 256) is the ultimate tease because he has great physical ability, but he also was a very inconsistent player in terms of producing for the Spartans, especially coming up short with his effort and aggressiveness. His draft value will cause real debate because his production did not match his talent and players like that rarely get support from all people in one organization.

The biggest debates will take place in the draft rooms of teams that use highlight tapes instead of touch tapes -- videotapes made of a player that include every pass thrown in his direction, not just highlight-reel plays. On a cutup tape, Davis will look like a star, especially when splicing in his workout at the Combine. On game film, however, Davis just shows up as being inconsistent.

Cody Wallace, C, Texas A&M. Scouts, including us in The War Room, liked Wallace (6-3 3/4, 292) right away after evaluating on film during the '07 season. He was not a star, but he showed good athleticism, great competitiveness and generally good production. In addition, from what we were able to find out from other scouts, Wallace was viewed as a solid fourth-round prospect who just might become a Day 2 steal by developing into a long-term NFL starter.

At Senior Bowl week, however, Wallace struggled mightily and was pushed around, looking like he was small and lacking strength. His struggles in Mobile were the first looks many NFL coaches had at him, which will lead to them not wanting to fight hard for him regardless of what scouts say about how he played at Texas A&M. Count on some lively debate as scouts try to sell him as a great Day 2 pick who could eventually start, while coaches won't be able to shake the thought of his bad week in Mobile.

Carl Nicks, G, Nebraska. Nicks (6-4 3/4, 342) played offensive tackle for the Cornhuskers, but much of the debate surrounding Nicks will come down to what position he needs to play in the NFL to be successful. After starting for only one full season at Division I-A, Nicks was viewed as one of the most intriguing offensive line prospects entering the postseason process because he has such good natural athleticism for such a massive man.

However, scouts, along with us in The War Room, have been frustrated when evaluating Nicks on film because he isn't a consistently competitive blocker and allowed his blocking assignments to either make or disrupt far too many plays in college. Then at the Senior Bowl, the inconsistency continued. He showed the natural athleticism that excited so many scouts during the season and clearly grabbed the attention of many coaches, but he also struggled with blocking throughout the week, which raised the concerns that he might be best suited to play guard in the NFL.

The debate about Nicks then will have several layers to it. Everything will start with what would be his best NFL position, and then it would turn into whether he is competitive enough to be a consistent NFL performer, regardless of position. The last, and certainly not least issue is whether Nicks can keep himself in the necessary shape to hold up as an NFL lineman.

Chris Williams, T, Vanderbilt. Williams (6-6 1/8, 317) may be the most debated player in draft rooms around the league and the main reason is that left tackle has become such a vital position over the past decade, and Williams has the chance to be a very special one.

Although nearly everyone in the media was focused on Michigan offensive tackle Jake Long throughout the '07 season, Williams was the talk of scouts because he is a premier athlete for the position -- no doubt more athletic than Long -- and played much better in 2007 than he had in 2006, but he still did not play with the aggressiveness/passion that teams loved when they evaluated Jake Long. Then at the Senior Bowl, Williams was dominant, both athletically and competitively, and raised the question among NFL people if he was the best tackle prospect because of his potential.

Long still will be chosen ahead of Williams, but you can be sure that there will be some very vocal arguments between those who favor the "safe" pick (Long) and the player with more potential (Williams). Williams also is seen as more of a risk because of perceived limited aggressiveness and passion for playing the position.

Cooley's site is cool! Go Captain Chaos!!!

I understand today would have been Sean T's 25th birthday. So sad.

Also heard that our buddy Ryan Clark is trying to get his number changed to #21 (in Pittsburgh) to honor Sean.

I saw a guy today wearing a #36 Meast jersey today...

RIP Sean Taylor

Randy Thomas was on Redskins Radio today and he said we need to pick either D Line or O line with 21....not a WR.

47 has a fun little site there a great insight into the head of one of the great guys on the team. If JG did one thing right it was drafting Cooley. How he got him when he did in the draft I will never know.

"BONG!

Posted by: leevi98 | April 1, 2008 07:44 PM "

Could not have said it better myself!

My only addition would be to find out if Cooley hits the :

BONG!

"The Original Bong Super Funk Regulator"

Cooley's new dog looks exactly like mine! Hahaha!

"fired up and interactive" is a really, really polite way to characterize the peeps up here...

I'm fired up. I'm spending the night rebuilding my MacBook. Exciting.

So Diddy, you're saying the team is in a rebuilding period, and you as owner will do what it takes to see it through. Good for you. Some owners don't have that kind of patience.

Well, Nate, I was going to trade my MacBook for a shiny new one. But something told me to make a more conservative decision.

(that and sales tax went up here in WA on April 1st)

For the record, MacOffice 2008 just finished installing the Norwegian Proofing Tools.

It could be a typo, but ESPN is reporting that we're getting three 3rd round compensatory picks for the 2008 draft.

Anyone got the skinny?

Cindy posted earlier that the 'Skins get a 3rd and 2 7ths.

I'm working on my mock draft, and I'll let you know how I think things will shake out. I'm hoping to have it completed somewhere around early May.

TDawg, keep up, bro! Three or four threads back...

Aye, sorry, my friend-- prepping to move back to the Old Line State has consumed my time a bit more than I'd like! I knew that we got a 3rd and 2 7ths, but I thought maybe we got 3 more 3rd rounders (as ESPN stated) for Sean Taylor or something. It's late, and April Fool's is over.

what does "loseable type" mean?

I've done my mock draft. I'm going with Charlize Theron in the first round. Marissa Miller in the 2nd. Model 13 from Deal or No Deal in the third. Using the comp pick to get Vanessa Williams, also in the 3rd. The hot teller at my local bank is my 4th round pick. Carla Gugino in the 5th, Ashley Judd in 6th and in the 7th round, Scarlett Johanssen.

Now, go ahead and mock me :)

How long before Barno's 'paper boy' routine ends Chris' blog?

Model 13 from Deal or No Deal in the third.

Now, go ahead and mock me :)

Posted by: zcezcest1 | April 2, 2008 02:53 AM

Nice one, blogger whose name I can't pronounce. But you're dreaming if you think Model 13 will still be waiting for you in the third round. Most mocks have her going mid-first round.

You may have a chance at Model 9 in the third, but I hope you realize that each round has about 100 million people picking. In fact, you have to be The Biggest Loser or that guy Hugo from Lost to pick high enough to get Charlize Theron in the first round.

brownwood...

what makes you such a guru of character analysis? Whether you're black or not, I do not know... but it seems fairly ignorant to use "gold grills" and bad Spanish to English translations as an argument against someone.

It wasn't well known to the national eye and even to a lot of Redskins fans just how much Sean Taylor meant to people. He was a menace, a thug and a criminal to many, but to those who knew him personally he was loving and amiable, albeit guarded. Don't throw out generalizations and blanket statements without keeping that in mind.

RIP Sean Taylor.

Posted by: Dorf | April 1, 2008 01:27 PM

I have to respond to this comment from yesterday. First of all, I already admitted that my remarks on Chad Johnson yesterday were a bit overstated. Second of all, I never said I was an expert on anything, much less character evaluation. But I am black and do reserve the right to express whether I feel someone of Chad Johnson's public stature is shedding a negative light. Whether he really is ignorant or not, he portrays himself that way. And I fail to see where my disinterest in that schtick makes me ignorant. Do you want Chad Johnson to be the face of your franchise? If you like it, drink it in. I'll pass.

And please, if you are TRULY a Redskin fan you would never compare CJ to Sean Taylor. The media never understood Sean because he didn't talk to them and all they knew was the fact that he got in trouble for waving (not firing) a gun and he had cornrows. He didn't wear gold grills, didn't have "look at me everyone" TD celebrations, and as far as I've heard, never took a swing at Coach Gibbs. Taylor was a great kid, great teammate, and was snatched away from us at a time when he was starting to really come into his own as a player and as a man. Chad Johnson's only interest is in promoting himself and getting his "grill" on TV.

And one last note: let's stop comparing CJ to Gary Clark. There may be some comparison in ego, but Gary never fought his coaches during a playoff game and was a fine professional in his career. And of course, Gary was drafted here. He wasn't a malcontent with a lot of baggage from elsewhere that we had to trade for.

t_e, I've taken to calling him "Zeke." He doesn't seem to mind, and in any event he admits it's unpronounceable, like the symbol Prince used for a while.

One of the big risks, I am sure that was not taken into account was the fact that trolls and lurkers would spread from RI to 47s blog.

podspeak, the software behind this blog and comments is called "Moveable Type."

This software has proven to be, ah, not completely reliable. It has what can be charitably called quirks, a variety of cruel and unpredictable ways it can make a comment you submit just disappear into the ether.*

Also, we like nicknames up here. I fear that may make this blog community look like an annoying clique to a newcomer (and you have admitted sensitivity to like such as), but I assure you we're not unique in this regard.

Hence the nickname "Loseable Type." It ain't a term of endearment.

* ctrl-C is your friend! copy THEN submit. safety first!

FYI since I went on Cooley's site last night his hit counter jumped up 1000 hits. So good work JLC

brownwood,
My bad on missing your retraction.
It just sounds like a bitter grudge is all... I take it you're not a Latrell Sprewell fan. I still think you can't possibly be justified in your loathing of CJ simply because of his outward appearances and media relations.

Brother, there are plently of rich, white, old men and yuppy frat guys that make white people look bad. I can't do anything about it so I save my energy for more useful things.

Just don't throw out the "if you are TRULY a Redskins fan" melodrama. I'm pretty sure that is some sort of logical fallacy.

Dorf,

I don't hate the guy on a personal level; I'm sure he'd be fun to have drinks with. All I'm saying is that CJ's schtick doesn't fit in with what the Redskins are. Or at least what they're supposed to be. I would be embarrassed to have him wearing burgundy and gold.

And yes, there are people considered embarrassments to every race. I never said that CJ is sub-human, just that his antics and persona fall in line with some pretty awful stereotypes. I'd rather not see those furthered in D.C. of all places.

I just don't get how you can compare CJ to Sean Taylor when those two situations are completely different. Sorry if I questioned your "fanhood", but there's a definite "logical fallacy" if you think those two situations are even in the same neighborhood.

I will take a stab at a mock draft:

1)Merling/Harvey Albert will be gone
2)Jordy Nelson
3a)Chilo Rachal/Carl Nicks
3b)Dre Moore DT/Maryland
5)Dwight Lowery CB/San Jose State
6)Chris Mcduffie OG/Clemson
7a)Curtis Gatewood OLB/Vanderbilt
7b)Jonathan Zenon CB/LSU
7c)Brennan Carvalho C/Portland State

I would take Harvey over Merling if he is still there.

I take Rachal before Nicks, Nicks has some character issues.

This kid is a player,

Name: Jonathan Zenon
College: LSU Number: 19
Height: 6-0 Weight: 191
Position: CB Pos2:
Class/Draft Year: rSr/2008
40 Time: 4.48 40 Low: 4.43 40 High: 4.68
Projected Round: 7-FA Stock:
Rated number 29 out of 240 CB's 285 / 2540 TOTAL

A tremendous cover corner, he has started 26 straight games for the Tigers at left cornerback ... Has made 41 tackles, picked off three passes, broken up seven others, forced a fumble and recovered another ... Returned an interception 18 yards for the game-winning score in the SEC title game ... Also had six tackles and a PBU in that contest ... Made a career-high seven stops in the win over South Carolina ... Had four stops and an interception against Mississippi State ... Other INT came against La. Tech, where he was also responsible for a fumble recovery.

km, give me the stuff on your late round picks:

5)Dwight Lowery CB/San Jose State
6)Chris Mcduffie OG/Clemson
7a)Curtis Gatewood OLB/Vanderbilt
7b)Jonathan Zenon CB/LSU
7c)Brennan Carvalho C/Portland State

Name: Dwight Lowery
College: San Jose State Number: 25
Height: 5-11 Weight: 201
Position: CB Pos2:
Class/Draft Year: Sr/2008
40 Time: 4.54 40 Low: 4.48 40 High: 4.65
Projected Round: 4 Stock:
Rated number 14 out of 240 CB's 118 / 2540 TOTAL

Name: Curtis Gatewood
College: Vanderbilt Number: 48
Height: 6-2 Weight: 248
Position: OLB Pos2: DE
Class/Draft Year: rSr/2008
40 Time: 4.72 40 Low: 4.65 40 High: 4.81
Projected Round: 7-FA Stock:
Rated number 23 out of 233 OLB's 270 / 2540 TOTAL

Name: Chris McDuffie (+) Elbow
College: Clemson Number: 68
Height: 6-4 Weight: 330
Position: OG Pos2: DT
Class/Draft Year: rSr/2008
40 Time: 5.30 40 Low: 5.22 40 High: 5.39
Projected Round: 6 Stock:
Rated number 10 out of 175 OG's 204 / 2540 TOTAL

Name: Brennan Carvalho
College: Portland State Number: 55
Height: 6-1 Weight: 294
Position: C Pos2: OG
Class/Draft Year: Sr/2008
40 Time: 5.00 40 Low: 4.90 40 High: 5.12
Projected Round: 7-FA Stock:
Rated number 10 out of 88 C's 302 / 2540 TOTAL

kmdp, zere is zumzink about zees Zenon kid zat I zeenk will really pleaze zee Redzkinz coach.

Greg,

I like Zenon alot.

Gatewood played DE in college so he knows how to get after the QB, and he is big enough to play SLB.

Carvalho was 3 time all american in the Big Sky conference.

km, thanks, as usual great work.

I think the team needs to draft a DE at some point, I like Dre Moore in the third, I'd like to see the team take a shot at Brendan Keith, from Northern Iowa.

Solid work just the same.

I could go for Keith in the 5th but I saw he was arrested on rioting charges recently.

I think as long as we get Harvey or Merling in the first DE is covered.

Greg,

Are you going to be online during the draft?

km, you sure about Keith?? I know that Nicks was arrested about 3 weeks ago at a house party, but I hadn't heard about Keith.

he was arrested on rioting charges recently.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 2, 2008 08:35 AM

Rioting charges? Maybe he was in front of the Chinese embassy, protesting their actions in Tibet?

what does "loseable type" mean?

Posted by: podspeak | April 2, 2008 02:40 AM

See RI wiki glossary.

km, I might be on-line, with 3 kids under the age of 10, saturdays are sometimes consumed by soccer/baseball. I like that they're only doing 2 rounds on Saturday. I also like the Redskins having 2 picks in the first round of the SECOND day of the draft. Saturday night, Vin needs to be going over the left-overs with a microscope.

Three men face rioting charges after a weekend fight at an event center in Cedar Falls. The men -- two current Northern Iowa football players and a former player -- were arrested early Sunday at the Main Event Center. Police were called about 2 a.m. after reports of several fights inside and outside the building. Police say officers tried to disperse the crowds, but several people refused. Authorities arrested Adam Roberts, Darrell Lloyd and Brandon Keith, all of Cedar Falls. All three were starters on the UNI football team last season. Keith, an offensive tackle, has used up his eligibility. Roberts was a sophomore starting defensive back. Lloyd was a junior starting defensive back. Two police officers were injured in the incident. - AP Sports

kmdp,

Thanks for clarifying. Hard to tell whether Keith is pro-Tibet or pro-China. Did they ask about that at the combine?

This is Washington, you know. Everyone has to have an opinion on everything.

Greg,

You do not have to tell me about kids and weekends, I have a 10 year old who plays Rec. and Select Softball and a 7yr old who plays Soccer, and a Wife who works all day Saturday's. The draft falls on a Holiday weekend and there is nothing scheduled for either of my daughters. So I will be on and making sure Vinny goes with my picks.

km, thanks for clarifying that. Both he and Nicks, really stupid moves getting arrested that close to the draft.
I will say both incidents seem minor, and maybe thats me waffling, because I think they're going to be studs in the NFL.

Greg,

I was caught up in alot of fights at that age and I turned out fine, I agree minor offenses, but not sure how the FO will view them.

Be back in a couple hours try not to talk to bad about me.

Boy, that kmdp4, he's a riot.

Authorities arrested Adam Roberts, Darrell Lloyd and Brandon Keith, all of Cedar Falls.

Posted by: kmdp4 | April 2, 2008 08:48 AM

Maybe this means we can take him in the 5th.

km, yeah, a minor discretion, and if I'm the Redskins I look into his past to see if this is a pattern of behavior.

This isn't like getting pinched for DUI, or violence against a woman, but these guys needed to be smarter than this.

* beep beep *