Crap, first?

Ouch

No worse than 4th?

Fate is pointing at ... Rob Jackson! Sure, we took him in the seventh round, but we took him for a reason, and this is his chance. Dude's going to step up and make believers of us all.

Thin at DE? Not when Rob Jackson's on the roster.

ESPN already reports that the Skins are talking to the Dolphins about Jason Taylor.

exactly how does espn.com report this almost an hour before the Post?

exactly how does espn.com report this almost an hour before the Post?

Posted by: | July 20, 2008 3:03 PM

Better sources bro

ESPN covers sports, nothing but; a inordinately well staffed sports network, that's how.

ESPN already reports that the Skins are talking to the Dolphins about Jason Taylor.

Posted by: Larry | July 20, 2008 3:02 PM

John Clayton needed something once his Favre to the Redskins stuff didn't pan out.

I got a name, Mike Rucker, yeah not as good as Taylor but doesn't cost us anything to get him. Or I favor sending a mid-round pick to a team with depth for a younger guy versus giving up anything above a 4th for a one year rental.

u people thinking that a waiver wire scrap find or untested late round draft picks are going to fill this hole are nuts.

Get taylor, he takes daniels roster spot so the same slots are still avaialble to young hungry guys and they will contribute. This is a no brainer in my book.

1 day of camp, 1 starter down. we still have well over a month of practice and 5 preseason games. sign of things to come?

even if taylor is only going to play one more year, 4th rounder might be worth it.

Did ESPN mention that the injury to Daniels happened "on the first play of 7-on-7 drills."

I don't think so...

Thanks a lot Cerrito...He knew we needed a DE in the draft and instead he blew it...A 7th round DE starting?...yeah right

Maybe a 4th rounder. It would be stupid to give up a 2nd or 3rd.

Daniels wasnt a star but he was very good, a vet, a gamer and a baller....this is a huge loss and not something that can be fixed with scotch tape and 7th round picks.

I'd say given daniels age, the type of injury and his injury history he might be done for good.

I salute you Philip you were a baller and served well!

CL--What picks do you think we should be willing to give up to have Jason Taylor play for one year?

CL, how can you think meeting the Dolphins price of a 1st round pick is worth it for a guy who will play one year? That's crazy and if we do it we're idiots. I fully admit Taylor might be the best player available but not worth it if the price is anything over a 4th round pick.

We're going to hear how this is devastating to the team and defensive line. But Daniels was injury prone, 35 years old, and was never going become a better football player. And I'm sure we're going to hear how much of a team leader he was blah blah blah...everyone needs to just play better. And clearly the offense is going to have to score point and control the ball this year. Offense helps the defense just as much at the defense helps the offense...the defense just needs to blitz in obvious passing situations, probably more so now...I'd rather give up a quick big play and then 12 play drive clock eating score.

I was against going after Taylor, but this definitely changed my mind. However, if Miami didn't have the upper hand in trade negotiations with the 'Skins before the draft, they definitely have it now.

CL,

What would you give up for Taylor?

Counting on a 35 year old DE who's marginal in his best years was foolish, anyway. We should have used at least one of our early picks on a DE. We've needed one for years now.
Jason Taylor will cost us at least a first rounder because we're desperate. Just pay it and move on. With no real threat from the other side (unless they start playing Wilson more) Jason will have 7 sacks this year for us. FIRE VINNY.

As Cavalier points out, Parcells has all the leverage at this point.

In about an hour or so the biggest douche in the universe will report that the Redskins have begun talks to trade for Jason Taylor.

What happens when Andre Carter pulls a hammy?

As much as I was against going after Taylor, I think we need to make a push for him now. Hopefully it won't be a 1st rounder though.

1st off Taylor playing 1 year is a bargaining chip on his part, I will believe when I see him retired...

Who is to say he gets in a media market like DC, close to NYC and revitalized on a new team and plays 2-4 more years?

I would give as much as a 3rd honestly

Contingency plan, we need one...

I think we should trust that the Front Office under brilliant executive Vinny Cerrato will make the right move, even if that means trading away draft picks for a 33 yr DE...is that ok to say Mr. Snyder?

How long before Cornelius Griffin is carted off the practice field?

Maybe the Phins would be willing to take a player and a lower draft pick. I don't know which player, but the 'Skins may have a glut at the Wideout spot.

"Jason Taylor will cost us at least a first rounder because we're desperate. Just pay it and move on."

What is the purpose of sacrificing the future to get Taylor for a year or two? Maybe we'll be 8-8 this year instead of 7-9. Id prefer to be crappy this year and have a brighter future than be marginal and hurt our chances of improving.

I meant higher round draft pick.

Toooooo many squats & power lifts!

Can we simply employ a 3-4 defense, and take a sit back and bend but don't break approach?

Let's allow the opposing QB all the time in the world and allow him to self destruct. No one can play under that kind of pressure (see Tony Romo.)

anon, I see your point...but to me the skins have set themselves up to be ready to make this kind of room....cap space, quiet off season, drafted well, I dont see a Taylor move as a return to form...

Also I think we all want to see Zorn succeed right? I dont think he has the luxury of posting multiple losing seasons. If we want a bright future with Zorn around building a Holmgren like reign he needs to be competitive the next two years.

Should have taken me instead of that tight end, knuckleheads.

so much for that draft strategy....

I'm sticking by my story....Brett Favre to the Redskins...only now as a defensive end.

jWe need to negotiate with 3-4 different teams to look for a D-lineman, so who else may be on the trade table?

So what about Erasmus James? Will he get a chance to take that spot?

E. James is an experiment...can't count on him

I say we institute a no rushing the passer defense.

Hands off the QB, people. Don't even think about it.

if we're talking about a big trade involving a 1st round pick why don't we go after somebody we're sure has something left in the tank. Say Terrell Suggs, he and Baltimore are fighting over money and they don't want to give him a long term deal anyway, he's a stud and he's like 23. Send a 1st to B-more for suggs makes more sense to me than sending a high pick for a guy we're hoping might play more than a year.

This loss will have a big effect on the skins third down package where Daniels was to slide inside. I don't think the skins have anyone else who can collaspe the pocket on a regular basis.

I wouldn't exactly peg us as a team with a bright future. It is possible if JC and the WR's pan out but this is an aging team that is going to have a lot of turnover in the next couple years. See Springs, Marcus Washington, Griffin, the entire OL, etc. To be stubborn and not give up something to get Jason Taylor who is an All Pro DE even if it is only for a year or 2 is kinda stupid to me.

We don't need to panic. We have several young DE's, who we need to develop. Forget about Taylor. Demetric Evans can play against the run, Chris Wilson and Alex Buzbee play on passing downs. Just because they don't have pro bowl experience doesn't mean they can't become good DL's. Stay with the youth movement. We don't need any more 34 year-olds.

Not sold on Alex Buzbee just yet...

and what about trying Alexander and Gholston at end. They both could probably give just as much as what Daniels was, we act like this is a big deal, but the truth is Daniels wasn't a great player or anything, he was an injury prone run-stopper who was replaced on 3rd downs.

At the snap of the ball, let's just stand there and see what happens.

As far as how long it's taking this news to get out there....I don't blame JLC as much as some do. The post has an anti-snyder bias, and has for a while now. Much of it comes from a touchy ticket situation. Seeing as how it's a rocky relationship to begin with, it's not surprise that JLC has to wait until the media at the park is briefed on the topic before he can get anything. I'm sure he's got an in or two, but look at it like this.

Snyder, and therefore the skins, are all about image control. Who cares what a liberal, politically centered paper has to say about the team, when it's mostly the teams fans that are looking at it for sports anyway? Wouldn't it be much more profitable to let the "leaks" out to a sports empire like ESPN where non-skins fans are exposed to it? Especially in an effort to kiss up to the sports media schlubs who all maintain an ego driven despise for Snyder. It's a game, and it's transparent, and once you know how it's being played the different pieces make more sense.

Well who else is available for a trade option? We can't just talk to the phins we need 3-4 teams to haggle down the price.

we act like this is a big deal

Posted by: zjfr2 | July 20, 2008 3:29 PM

--------

Not me.

Hands to the side, people.

Um, there's Buzbee news: hit refresh...

Buzbee. Ankle. Cart.

It would be nice if we had Vernon Gholston as an option at DE. Too bad we only have Kedric Golston who is a lifelong DT.

Dropping like flies.

Not at all concerned.

Seriously. WTF?

Send a 1st to B-more for suggs makes more sense to me than sending a high pick for a guy we're hoping might play more than a year.
Posted by: zjfr2 | July 20, 2008 3:25 PM

I agree whole-heartedly with you. Let's get younger bodies in there!

I think anytime you lose a starter for the season it's a big dal. Daniels has been solid on some good defenses here. As for Taylor, I think the skins will end up giving a 3rd pick next year to get the deal done.

for the love of gawd...vinny has some 'splainin to do now

F camp, lets start the real games already.

"ESPEn" is reporting a 2nd rounder of Jason "Twinkletoes" Taylor. If Parcells were smart he'd hold out for a first, considering there are other training camps and others are sure to go down.

Buzbee too? Wow.

At the very least we should be negotiating with a hoard of teams.

Vinny needs to explain nothing; he tells other folks what to do. Blame them.

Incidentally, this is only the first day of training camp.

Relax...

To be fair Vinny does not know who is going to get hurt.

I like the Alexander suggestion...Golston is an inside run plugger all the way, but Alexander has very good athleticism for his size and could to well on first and second downs on the strong side.

Not sure if anyone has commented yet, but Evans is no slouch. He gives you more pass rush than Daniels does at this point in Daniels career, and he's a stout DE in the run at close to 300 pounds.

As long as we can get into the season with Evans and Carter healthy, we should be able to use Alexander/Wilson/one of the rooks/Buzzbee if he's not hurt too bad to rotate fresh bodies through. An injury to Evans or Carter however would pretty much devastate the DL. Either way, we'd better have a great year from the LB corp.

I like the Alexander suggestion...

Posted by: IntenseJ | July 20, 2008 3:42 PM

---------

Dude, what's to like, other than half baked conspiracy theories about Snyder and the Post?

You lost me on this one. There are college teams out there with more depth across the DL than the Redskins have.

Changing chairs on the Titanic?

So I've been keeping an eye on you guy's camp...you might want to up your offer before I haven another one....I mean before another one of your DEs goes down ;)

To be fair Vinny does not know who is going to get hurt.

Posted by: Alex35332 | July 20, 2008 3:41 PM

1. This is Redskins Insider. "Fair" and "Vinny" shouldn't be used in the same sentence.

2. He would if he read this blog regularly. We're predicted that everyone would get injured. We need 44 starters, not 22. Fortunately, we're loaded at WR. A few other positions are "thin."

Dude, what's to like, other than half baked conspiracy theories about Snyder and the Post?

You lost me on this one. There are college teams out there with more depth across the DL than the Redskins have.

Changing chairs on the Titanic?

Posted by: Chia Pet | July 20, 2008 3:46 PM

Depth is not the issue, quality is. Daniels was not in the top 20 DEs in the league...not even in the top 40. It was a weak position to begin with, and while it got a little weaker, it didn't fall off the face of the earth.

As far as the front line, Evans is not much of a drop at all from Daniels. The issue is the rotation. We have bodies for the rotation, but we don't have any impact bodies that we know of yet. One could still emerge during the preseason.

If we had lost Carter I'd be much more worried. He is a notch and a half above the other DEs on the roster, and if we'd had an impact player opposite him the past couple years, he'd easily have posted 12+ sacks in each of them.

Bottom line is we didn't have an impact player at that position, and now with Daniels injury we still don't.

One more name not being mentioned is Ryan Boschetti. He came to us playing DE and DT, and we used him at both over the past 4 years. He's listed now as a DT, but that's meaningless...he's experienced at the end. He's a good run stuffer at end too, but just like Daniels doesn't give you much against the pass.

This is not panic time.

The Skins don't plan to fail. They fail to plan. In this year's draft, they took, among other things, 2 WRs, a TE, a punter, a third-rate QB. They knew DE was a need and pretty much ignored it. But hey, we got receivers galore, and a new punter.

hahaha intenseJ and bigJ! all the js!

Not panic time yet I agree. However we don't want what happened at the guard position during preseason happen to the DE position. The skins were lucky that Kendall was available. They need another vet DE sooner tha later.

If we had lost Carter I'd be much more worried.

Posted by: IntenseJ | July 20, 2008 3:54 PM

---------

brace yourself...

----------

This is not panic time.

Posted by: IntenseJ | July 20, 2008 3:54 PM

----------

Hands to the side.

Give 'em plenty of time to think about it and lots of room to move around back there.

That's it...

The Skins don't plan to fail. They fail to plan. In this year's draft, they took, among other things, 2 WRs, a TE, a punter, a third-rate QB. They knew DE was a need and pretty much ignored it. But hey, we got receivers galore, and a new punter.

Posted by: BigJ | July 20, 2008 4:00 PM

It was certainly a curious draft. The guys I was watching it with were certainly in disbelief.

That said, when you judge a draft after a few years, it's often not what the team drafted, but who the team drafted. There's no excuse for not taking some shots at DE in the past few years, but we have gotten some good players out of it that have led to strength at other positions.

It could be that the team has genuinely committed to Zorn, an offensive coach, and is willing to put less draft focus on the defense, while instead making sure that Zorn has as many young quality pieces to build with as possible. I see them as stocking up on what Zorn does best, to get him off on a good foot, and intended to backfill the defense as the offense advances.

Just another half-baked conspiracy theory. ;)

I say go get Taylor for anything but a first round pick and an impact player. Taylor is still better than anybody we have or anyone we would have drafted. You can still bring Wilson and Buzzbee along by keeping them in the rotation.

Let's not panic!!! Besides, anyone who have been wathcing the Skins over the last four years knows it hasn't been the Defense that has kept us from a deep playoff run.

This is not panic time.

Posted by: IntenseJ | July 20, 2008 3:54 PM

You're making sense. Are you sure you're on the right blog? This is Redskins Inside Her. Panic time is 24/7/365. Black cat walks across the field and we panic.

We should have drafted Calais Campbell over a position we really didn't need in TE when we took Fred Davis. Mark my words campbell is going to be a stud. If we want any chance at making the playoffs we need to trade for Taylor.

Can someone please explain to me why everyone is cryin' about the defense and who we didn't draft on the D-Line, when this defense has been carrying this team for three out of the last four years?

Some just complain because it's what someone else has said and know nothing about football. This was the 8th ranked defense last year. How many yards did the rookie of the year (Peterson) give the Skins...at home (54 if that)? What about the so called "Marion the Barbarian". C'mon people?

Now if Samuels, Thomas or Jansen went down, then the sky is falling.

I'm with "Intense" and "Chris Larry"...

It's not panic time yet, but this is RI. Next, we'll start hearing about how we should not have let Ryan Clark go.

Not panic time yet I agree. However we don't want what happened at the guard position during preseason happen to the DE position. The skins were lucky that Kendall was available. They need another vet DE sooner tha later.

Posted by: MJ | July 20, 2008 4:01 PM

I agree. We've got the cap room, and we should definitely be looking at the FA's that are out there. I wouldn't spend any picks on the position right now though, at least none above a 5th rounder.

With the comparison to the G fiasco though I do have a few things to add...I think the impact of having a nobody at G is much bigger than having a nobody at DE. A ridiculously weak G hampers both the running game and the passing game. We became a one armed man in the running game, which lets the defense load up on that one side. When a defense knows whats coming it's infinitely harder to have success with it. With the passing game, aside from being WAY too conservative with the play calling, we were having to keep backs out of routes and TEs out of routes to compensate for the weakness at G. Makes it much easier to cover what's left. Then we had Rabach and the Tackles compensating to help the Gs, leaving us very vulnerable to blitzes and line stunts.

With a DE, even if it's a schlub, you still have to account for him and put a hat on him. And you still have to run around him. Daniels could be single teamed and offered little pass rush, it won't be too hard to replace that. Rucker could step in and rotate with Evans to give us almost the same thing.

There was a lot of hate up here for Calais Campbell before the draft. How's he working out as a pro? Right. We don't know.

I'd like to see how the guys we did take in the draft play on the field before I decide the draft was a failure. And, it might be interesting to see how the guys we didn't take play.

Getting this team younger after Gibbs traded away youth for age is a multi-year project. We're only in the first year, and Jason Taylor seems to me like a step backwards. Terrell Suggs might be a step forward if we can swing it.

intended to backfill the defense as the offense advances.

Posted by: IntenseJ | July 20, 2008 4:07 PM

----------

What offense?

This new bunch hasn't scored a single point yet, is brand new and needs all the help from the D it can get.

Building on backfill? Can we say liquefaction?

These boys were just starting to get in football shape about a month ago at the end of OTAs. Then, they take a month off and look what happens!

Geeez!

You're making sense. Are you sure you're on the right blog? This is Redskins Inside Her. Panic time is 24/7/365. Black cat walks across the field and we panic.

Posted by: talent evaluator | July 20, 2008 4:10 PM

Thanks TE. I'm a Redskins forum vet. I post in quite a few of them. I had more posts than everyone but Vis in the old WP forums before they disappeared. I hardly ever post here in this new format. All of the old regulars from the WP forums when and started up our own forum some place else. That's where the good stuff is. Skinsfans4ever is what Fergie called it. (I'm using a few names so that any of the regs that are still around in here might recognize them and come on over)

We've got our share of panic over there too, but it's much more tempered...lol

I am over complaining about the draft and the Redskins failure to address their needs for O-line and D-line players.

However, I will start complaining if they give up anything more than a 4th rounder for Taylor.

If an earthquake hits, this one goes down.

IntenseJ doesn't sound very intense.

Are you one of those folks who tell me to sit down at home games when the opposing team is on offense, in the red zone, about to put the game out of reach for us, with 2 minutes left?

Lively up yo' self, brudda!

"This new bunch hasn't scored a single point yet, is brand new"

That's my point. We spent the first draft of the Zorn era giving him as much young talent as possible to build his system around.

What I was saying is that perhaps the team's vision is a long rang one with Zorn. If you're going to truly commit to a coach, you have to develop a long range strategy to help him be successful. It appears that our long range strategy is to give him as many young pieces as we can to build his offense around. Offense is his specialty, and it's what will allow him to establish a hold on this team. My suggestion was that maybe we draft offense in the beginning of his tenure, build up a young nucleus of guys who come into the league and go right into his system, establish a strong offensive identity, and then begin to backfill that identity by shifting focus to the defense.

In other words, instead of putting fingers in the damn where the water is leaking from, maybe our front office focused their energy on building a new, younger, better damn from the ground up, starting where the new head coach is most familiar.

J-La-C haters
Recognize: 10 minutes in,
Draft critique holds true.

Posted by: HaikuMan | July 20, 2008 10:52 AM

Caught up with Chris Wilson. He's an untapped gem.

By Jason La Canfora | July 20, 2008; 1:14 PM ET

On top of WIlson, James could be high risk, high reward. I wouldn't say the future and the past are foretold yet.....

Beep beep. Smoot limping.

IntenseJ doesn't sound very intense.

Are you one of those folks who tell me to sit down at home games when the opposing team is on offense, in the red zone, about to put the game out of reach for us, with 2 minutes left?

Lively up yo' self, brudda!

Posted by: Chia Pet | July 20, 2008 4:28 PM

LOL...I hear ya, and no I'm not that guy. I'm usually hoarse by the second quarter. There is a time for that though, and there's also a time for patient analysis, IMO.

I can bring it when I need to...it's all good.

I am over complaining about the draft and the Redskins failure to address their needs for O-line and D-line players.

However, I will start complaining if they give up anything more than a 4th rounder for Taylor.

Posted by: CBT | July 20, 2008 4:23 PM

You, my friend, obviously do not understand the principles of "supply and demand." Washington has a need and Miami has the supply. THEY have the leverage and will demand at least a 2nd rounder.

We've got our share of panic over there too, but it's much more tempered...lol

Posted by: IntenseJ | July 20, 2008 4:22 PM

----------

Well, you've gone from "over there" to "up here."

Tempered panic is an oxymoron.

I'm torn btwn "not a problem" and "it sure would improve the D-line to get Jason Taylor." First round definitely seems too high, and if Tuna is holding out for a second rounder, then I say add another player swap into the deal too ... maybe send Ladell and take the Phins dime corner. t_e_ has it right though, the only position where the roster is a treasure chest is WR. Taylor is up there in years ... and we don't have a valuable enough WR who is that old ... but we do have one who has missed many many games due to hammy issues ... Jason Taylor for Santana, straight up. [Begin throwing eggs now. I'm only saying this to be evokative ... this is not time to panic. There are going to be some DE battles around the league where highly paid guys lose out to new guys ... we can afford to wait. I still think KGB would provide high value ... enough for to replace Daniels ... and he is now #3 in the Pack's rotation.]

**tossing several eggs**

Daniels going down isn't as bad as Jansen or Thomas going down last year.

Whoever said "give a first rounder for Jason Taylor and move on" isn't thinking very clearly. That guy isn't into football anymore. He is now officially a Prima Donna that thinks he'll be the next Dwayne "the Rock" Johnson. He's a team killer and Parcells knows it. I just hope management does too.

You, my friend, obviously do not understand the principles of "supply and demand." Washington has a need and Miami has the supply. THEY have the leverage and will demand at least a 2nd rounder.

Posted by: | July 20, 2008 4:33 PM

Why so desperate? Like the Redskins are gonna make the playoffs this year or even compete for a SB? Forget it. Save the pick for next year and draft a DE. The Skins need to play the young guys they have.

Let's go to a 2-5-4 defense.

Tough loss. Daniels may have been, at this stage in his career, average but he's better than anything else they have.

Feel sorry for him, as well, as a person. Forget the football stuff.

I have four words that ought to give people pause:

1) Bruce Smith

2) TJ Duckett

(counting TJ as a 'word')

If the Tuna wants more than a 4th rounder for JT, I say we go without and see what a Boschetti/Wilson/Alexander rotation can do at DE. As college free agents, they should be damn hungrier than your typical multi-million $ playa'.

This is not the George Allen/Joe Gibbs era, so the Future Is Not Necessarily Now.

Or a Jeff Foxworthy might say:

"If you think we have a genuine Super Bowl contender in town this year... you might bea Redneck!"