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Clinton Moves the Goalposts

HOUSTON -- It's Election Day: Time to move the goalposts.

For weeks, Hillary Clinton, her husband and top aides have suggested, hinted and outright stated that if she didn't win both the Ohio and Texas primaries today she would have to drop out of the Democratic presidential race. But as Ohio and Texas voters headed to the polls this morning, Clinton visited a polling station here and, in the company of a couple dozen reporters, sought to define victory down.

ABC News's Kate Snow told her of a new Washington Post/ABC News poll finding that, by two to one, Democrats "say you should stay in the race" even if she loses either Texas or Ohio.

"Well," Clinton said with a smile, "never underestimate the intelligence of the voter."

And never underestimate the appeal of a moving target. Clinton, hopping out of her motorcade this morning at the J.P. Henderson Elementary School here, did not look like a candidate on the verge of elimination. "Wonder Woman! Wonder Woman!" one of the 100 supporters called out as the candidate shook hands and took photos on a chilly morning here. One woman held aloft a hand-made sign proclaiming "We the Villagers Believe in you, Hillary." Next to her, another woman held up a box containing a "Hillary Nutcracker," complete with "Stainless Steel Thighs."

"I feel really good about today," announced Clinton (the human, not the nutcracker). "I'm thrilled at what's happening here in this campaign."

NBC's Andrea Mitchell asked Clinton about the importance of Ohio and Texas. "Well, they're very important," Clinton said, but stopped short of a "must win" formulation.

ABC Radio's Ann Compton asked what the candidate might do "if you are not as successful."

"I don't think like that," Clinton parried.

Did she agree with New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson's view that the candidate with the most delegates on Wednesday morning should be the nominee?

"My husband didn't get the nomination wrapped up until June," Clinton demurred.

The candidate, her back to the wall, sounded philosophical, "I believe in taking one day at a time, in politics as well as life," she ventured, assuring the journalists that, "as for now, we're going to play by the rules that we have."

For now?

And she clearly wasn't worried about the prospect of what one questioner called a "long, protracted fight."

"This is one of the most civil and positive primary campaigns that I can remember," she said.

She finished the ode to civility just in time for reporters to board the bus and dial in to a conference call being held by top Clinton aide Howard Wolfson and spokesman Phil Singer. Their purpose: linking opponent Barack Obama to his former supporter, Tony Rezko, now standing trial for corruption charges. The Clinton aides demanded to know "whether there were additional political favors Mr. Obama did for Mr. Rezko," and said "alarms" should be set off by the news that "Sen. Obama's mentor and patron is on trial for a variety of crimes."

The day's first hint that Clinton planned to push ahead regardless of the results in Ohio and Texas came with the schedule. Clinton planned to give her speech and leave Columbus, Ohio -- scene of her victory party -- at 10 a.m., before voters in Texas even finished caucusing.

And if reporters traveling with Clinton expected another Election-Day wake for the candidate, her aides were avowedly festive as they began the day in Texas. One announced that it was "Mimosa Tuesday" on the campaign plane. Another adviser, Doug Hattaway, greeted reporters on the bus public-address system with a cheery "welcome to the first day of the rest of your life."

Clinton, waking on primary day at the Four Seasons hotel in Houston, began a round of television interviews aimed at calibrating expectations. A Waco, Texas station wanted to know if she would "buy in at all to the opinion that you actually need a double digit win in this state to keep the campaign alive?"

"No, I sure don't," Clinton said.

A Dayton station asked if she needed a "big win" in Ohio.

"A win is a win," she judged.

Clinton delivered this message with such consistency and repetition that, during the 15th such interview, she was struck by a coughing fit and had to take a short break.

-- Dana Milbank

By Dana Milbank  | March 4, 2008; 1:52 PM ET
Categories:  Hillary Clinton  
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Comments

"A win is a win". If there's one thing we should have learned from the "divide and win by one" strategy of Karl Rove is that you may win an election by one vote but you can't govern with it.

Will Hilary go for a trifecta of rule changes? Michigan (I came in first in a race of one), Florida (I won, knowing it wouldn't count, now I want it to count) and Texas (If I win, great system, if I lose it's unconstitutional). Move goal posts, change the rules. What a mess!

Time for a real change,
Obama\Richardson '08

Posted by: thebobbob | March 4, 2008 2:08 PM | Report abuse

The only way that Hilary Rodham Clinton will withdraw from the contest is kicking and screaming, she will never take the interest of The Party into consideration, this typifies the attitude Hilary has had to the Voters and the campaign her contempt and arrogance along with her negative attacks rather than talking Policy. Clinton is the politics of the Past.

Voters want Change, I just Hope the last few days attacks do not count against OBAMA, the Voters of Texas and Ohio have the Chance to show clearly today the belief working together can make, only Barack Obama can deliver.

Posted by: John B Sheffield | March 4, 2008 2:14 PM | Report abuse

Wait until tomorrow when Obama has another 50+ superdelegates move into his camp! Then we shall see.

Posted by: Dahveed | March 4, 2008 2:16 PM | Report abuse

The poll showing dems want her to stay in even if she loses once again demonstrates how clueless most voters are. If that's the case, Huckabee should stay in no matter how many more states/delegates McCain wins. "Hilary, even though you have zero chance to win, you should stay in, because that way you can continue to attack Obama, and between you and McCain he won't have a chance. As a democrat, I want the republican to win. Oh, I'm sorry, yes, I am a clueless idiot, but as long as I'm voting I must know something."

Posted by: Dad | March 4, 2008 2:26 PM | Report abuse

I do hope the adult wing of the Democratic party steps up to the plate tomorrow.

Posted by: Anonymous | March 4, 2008 2:26 PM | Report abuse

The fusion of the pro-Obama biased media and the cult money machine of cult leader Obama makes the Democratic nomination process similar to the stuffed ballot box of a banana republic.

American democracy calls for the Democratic nomination process to continue for all the remaining states to have their say and then add the numbers at the Democratic National Convention in Denver, Colorado.

At the Convention, the superdelegates should vote their consciences on the most qualified, experienced candidate for the presidency and that would be Hillary Clinton.

With the fusion of the pro-Obama biased media and the cult money machine, rational Democrats must support Hillary Clinton with frequent contributions for her to make a powerful stand against that fusion.

Hillary Clinton is fighting for the future of America; she is the qualified, experienced, visionary leader America needs to make change real and restore America to prosperous times, and she is the credible commander in chief to restore our good standing in the world.

Posted by: crat3 | March 4, 2008 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Senator Clinton doesn't have a realistic option to answer the reporter's question any other way. If she admits that she's on the verge of dropping out, she risks alienating supporters who might be on the fence of whether to vote or not.

If she doesn't win both TX & OH today, the superdelegates will start indicating that its time for the party to coalesce around the nominee with the most pledged delegates. If she fails to make inroads into constituencies beyond her traditional base, she will come under more pressure to gracefully withdraw, in favor of a nominee who can.

Posted by: bsimon | March 4, 2008 2:27 PM | Report abuse

Even though I voted for Obama, I feel that Clinton deserves to continue running if she feels that way. Who are we to tell her to quit, and what would that say to her many devoted supporters. Rush has said that he is enjoying the debacle of a long campaign fight between Obama and Clinton, but actually, who cares about the Republican race - and who's paying attention now? I believe that regardless of who wins the nomination, the Republicans will fear the outcome, since so many folks are voting Democratic, and will probably continue to do so in November.

Posted by: BW | March 4, 2008 2:27 PM | Report abuse

United We Stand, Divided We Fall:

http://healinganation.wordpress.com/

Posted by: tankas | March 4, 2008 2:33 PM | Report abuse

Obama will have to dig his heels, and revisit that Chicago toughness--it's too soon to be presidential and above it all when his Democratic rival (who ISN'T above it all) wants to win at all costs, even if it damages the Democratic party, and eventual nominee (Obama) against McCain. The math is in Obama's favor, but Clinton will not concede without an electoral knockout and rebuff by the DNC against unfair seating of the MI and FL delegates. I am solid Obama supporter, but I think he has shown a tendency to become comfortable after every surge, and give his opponent too much credit to keep it clean. She won't, and his credibility will suffer unless his fights fire with fire, not simple dismissals. Obama, provide full access to your correspondence with Rezko, clarify your NAFTA position, respond to each and every kitchen sink thrown at you, because Clinton is an oxpecker, and will pick all insignificant blemishes until she can recast them as bloody wounds, and you will pay at the polling center. Deny this oxpecker and throw some kitchen sinks of your own. You will win the Democratic nomination, but not with a mandate unless you revist that Chicago toughness. You aren't the nominee yet, so fight as if you're the underdog!

Posted by: Quino | March 4, 2008 2:36 PM | Report abuse

With Texas stacking up against her, and money running out, she will actually have little choice;

Barack vs Hillary Analysis
The Home Stretch- Hillary's Personal Alamo:

http://newsusa.myfeedportal.com/viewarticle.php?articleid=53

Politicians often move the goal posts- it's the ones that try to move the field (NAFTA) that scare me.

Posted by: David | March 4, 2008 2:41 PM | Report abuse

What Hillary and her handlers cannot accept is that while many of her supporters would vote for Obama vs McCain, the same is not true the other way around. Many Obama supporters, including this 60 year old white male, life long Democrat are completely fed up with Hillary, Bill et al in her retinue. We have seen their true colors the past few weeks. It's right out of Rove, including this morning. Win at any cost and let the truth be damned. If she is the nominee , for the first time ever I will vote for a Republican nominee for president. Hillary CANNOT win in November. She's not winning now. 0-11 and she STILL cannot accept the message from those wise voters.

Posted by: jmsbh | March 4, 2008 2:43 PM | Report abuse

Clinton has been coughing and losing her voice for several weeks now. Perhaps she should spend more time listening.

Posted by: Sean | March 4, 2008 2:44 PM | Report abuse

crat3:

No matter what Clinton and Obama do, the Democratic primary process will continue -- the fact that one candidate drops out or suspends campaigning doesn't mean the remaining state primaries will be canceled. The choice Clinton faces is whether to continue attacking Obama even though it is quite impossible for her to finish the primary season with as many delegates as he -- she would have to win 60% of all delegates after today to accomplish that. The choice is whether to help herself or help the party. Three guesses which one she'll choose.

Posted by: simon | March 4, 2008 2:45 PM | Report abuse


Hillary hasn't moved the goalpost - HER SUPPORTERS HAVE. She is our voice!

And that 50% of Democratic voters are not going to be denied their voice and Democrats will not be rushed through this interview process by Mr. Smoothie no answers. He dismisses criticism and questions. He is Mr. Smug and there is a lot more interviewing to be done, a lot more votes to be counted - INCLUDING FLORIDA. Think he's having a little bit of premature excitement here...

The interview and media have been controlled by Mr. Obamas smoothie tactics and his "marketing" team - his "creators". But this interview is an interview By, Of and For the People. He's not running this show. That's for his float routine.

He arrived without a resume and he has closets full of dirty laundry. He'd love to rush us to conclusion here - but the mature voices of Ohio, Texas and Rhode Island are going to take us on to Pennsylvania.

He thinks he's running for American Idol. Someone needs to correct him. This is OUR interview. Not his.

So far this is all I have seen of his resume - and I'm not impressed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuB_W8o_UsU

Posted by: Thinker | March 4, 2008 2:45 PM | Report abuse

I positively, for the life of me, do not understand how anyone could believe a word that comes out of Hillary Clinton's mouth. What should be confined to internal thought processes actually seem to come out of her mouth untouched. She is a horrible communicator and quite frankly I don't trust anyone who can't communicate clearly, consistently. I voted for her husband twice -- I will vote for McCain if she manages to kill a movement aimed at the whole of the country. Hillary dear, its not about you its about what our country needs.

Posted by: Warren of Lincoln | March 4, 2008 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Answer the phone!! Hillary, answer the phone! It's ringing! Hillary, I, Mark Penn, top advisor, advise you to answer the phone! I'm sharpening pencils right now like you asked and I can't... ok I'll get it... oh wait, its for you.. Hillary, its Lorne Michaels, he wants to know when you'll be finished with their script for SNL this week.
"Ok thanks Mr. Michaels... he needs a pillow, got it, thats brilliant, I'll pass it along, we'll use that for sure... ok thanks bye." HILLARY, he said he thinks we should..
*ring ring*
oh jees, will this bloody phone ever stop ringing? I'll get it again I guess, I was almost done sharpening.. Hello this is Mark Penn... Oh hi Mr. Stewart.. yes thats right, she's love to make an appearance on your show, she's trying to... whats that... Not funny?! Hillary's a riot, especially on satellite delay... no no, Jon, it'll be great.. no not like last time... ok, question, is your show the one with Colbert bump? Cuz she needs... oh, it not?.. you're saying you could ask stephen... Don't think that'll work, she's alergic to truthiness. Ok thanks...
*ring ring*
Hello this is Mark Penn... Oh great! Its ready! My masterpiece! Ok thanks... bye now. HILLARY!! My fear mongering ad is finally ready! We had to go with the children sleeping in bed while the phone rings, turns out someone's already done one with a girl picking a flower and a mushroom cloud. Don't worry though, this one pretty scary, I had the same guy make it. Its really scary, it should work. Hillary, are you listening to me? Hillary!

Posted by: djbeers | March 4, 2008 2:46 PM | Report abuse

Saying the opposite of the truth "This is the most civil primary..." while she poisons the waters, "Never underestimate the intelligence of the voter." while she implies that people who vote for Obama are naive reminds me of the current administration. I understand that her back is against the wall but really, it's not all about you Hillary, it takes a village.

Hillary divides while Obama unites

Posted by: Jim | March 4, 2008 2:48 PM | Report abuse

@crat3: "The fusion of the pro-Obama biased media and the cult money machine of cult leader Obama makes the Democratic nomination process similar to the stuffed ballot box of a banana republic."

Do you have any concept how ridiculous and out of touch with reality this statement makes you sound? Or are you just "commenting for dollars" and thus unconcerned about little things like, um, making sense?

The sock puppet thing is SO out of hand.

Posted by: Mark | March 4, 2008 2:49 PM | Report abuse

Hillary doesn't care if she brings Obama down with her, and she'll use all the political dirty tricks at her disposal to do just that. She should not be attacking him at this point. It's time to take on John "No You Can't" McCain, and for Hillary to do a reality check.

Posted by: Rob H | March 4, 2008 2:50 PM | Report abuse

The Clinton camp is loving the press coverage of the trial of Tony Rezko, and the supposed NAFTA gaffe. I'm not going to launch into tired 'it's Hillary's doing!' conspiracy theories here, but one does have to admit that, after Clinton's promise to throw everything at Obama, the timing is certainly convenient.

Clinton continues to run her campaign as though her nomination is inevitable, and I believe that she will continue to do so. The next spin I expect to hear from the Clinton campaign is roughly similar to the tired line of Mike Huckabee - the race isn't over until someone gets 2025 delegates. Or is it some other random number that the Clinton camp invents? Either way, they know full well that neither candidate will hit that magic number.

What the Clinton camp conveniently leaves out is that a lead by Obama signals a win for him, whether the margin is 160 delegates or 1600. But I suspect that if the close trend continues, Clinton will do everything in her power - including litigation and the destruction of her own party - to 'win'.

Libertarian Obama supporter and free thinker:)

Posted by: TekTami78 | March 4, 2008 2:51 PM | Report abuse

I admire Hillary's fight. She just is such a poor sport it seems. I think we can respect that she continues to compete, it's just when she has lost 11 in a row, and Obama gets a lot of momentum and an uninterrupted string of positive media that comes with it, she starts assaulting the media, and they react, which is really poor on her campaign's part.
Also, every state she has won she has managed to dismiss or disregard it's importance, many times not even conceding afterwards in a speech. All of a sudden Ohio and Texas are important, but the other states like Virginia and Washington aren't? I hope everyone looks beyond the headlines and sees how desparate she is to create the right spin. Big states are important, but so are the small ones, and one of the big states she won was her home one...
She has been so negative throughout this process, and as someone who has followed the primary closely, it makes the Democrats look bad and it's really stressing me out! For real, it just drains you to keep hearing all this whining and attacking, it's why people are turned off to politics.
And finally, I hope the trend continues and the superdelegates follow the will of the people. It also looks like she won't get her wish and seat the current delegates from Michigan and Florida, where they had pledged not to count them or campaign earlier, without a new primary or caucus, that seems fair. Look at Ohio and Texas and how much Obama's closed the gap since campaigning, it makes a difference and she is trying too hard to win at all costs...

Posted by: tosher | March 4, 2008 2:53 PM | Report abuse

"What Hillary and her handlers cannot accept is that while many of her supporters would vote for Obama vs McCain, the same is not true the other way around."

Wrong. Look at exit polls and you will find the opposite is true.

I know MANY Democrats (including myself) who will vote Republican for the first time ever if Obama is the nominee. Some of us think experience and not a slogan is what's important, and we would vote for McCain.

Posted by: Carolyn | March 4, 2008 2:53 PM | Report abuse

The irony of Hillary Clinton's Campaign trying to capitalize on Obama's connection to Rezko should not be lost on any American, especially any journalist aware of the depth, extent and breadth of Clinton Corruption. Obama is clean as a whistle compared to Bill & Hillary. The mainstream media has given Hillary Clinton a pass on so many of her own serious scandals. SEE: http://www.peterfpaul.com/

Posted by: Christopher London | March 4, 2008 2:55 PM | Report abuse

Is there a psychiatrist in the house for djbeers??

Posted by: Anonymous | March 4, 2008 2:55 PM | Report abuse

The Obama-media conspiracy is trying everything possible to drive Senator Clinton from the race. How about letting all the voters vote first? Obama does not and will not have enough to clinch, Clinton may win Tx and Ohio tonight... and yet all you nattering nabobs of negativism are still trying to argue that she should pull out. Give it a rest and let the process continue. On another note, if anyone but Saint Obama had told a foreign govt not to worry about the candidate's public positions, there would be a huge outcry about this total breach of duty to country. Is there anything less patriotic than having such discussions with a foreign government, even a close ally?

Posted by: roger | March 4, 2008 2:56 PM | Report abuse

McCain will win. This will destroy Dems chances in the fall.

Posted by: Mark | March 4, 2008 2:57 PM | Report abuse

The Clinton campaign's claim that winning Ohio and Texas, even by small margins, helps them regain the momentum is intellectually suspect. Going 2-11 doesn't gain you momentum. But even if Clinton tries to ride her self-constructed wave of momentum, it won't get her the nomination. You don't get nominated for momentum, you get nominated for delegates, and it's a mathematically impossibility for Clinton to catch up to Obama in pledged delegates. In two weeks, any delegate gains made by Clinton on March 4th will be erased by Wyoming and Mississippi, and she will be back to square one with fewer states and fewer delegates left.

Posted by: Yao | March 4, 2008 2:58 PM | Report abuse

Liar, liar, pantsuit on fire!

Posted by: Bob | March 4, 2008 2:59 PM | Report abuse

"The irony of Hillary Clinton's Campaign trying to capitalize on Obama's connection to Rezko should not be lost on any American, especially any journalist aware of the depth, extent and breadth of Clinton Corruption."

Clinton doesn't have to make the point that he is WORSE than her, just that he is NO BETTER than any other politician.

The issue for Obama is that after painting himself as the second coming, above politics-as-usual, someone who will revolutionize American politics, any suggestion that he is just like the rest of them WILL hurt him.

He has set the bar WAY TOO HIGH for himself. Even he can't reach it!! Time will show this more and more...

Posted by: Anonymous | March 4, 2008 2:59 PM | Report abuse

Well, glad to see the biases of the Washington Post so proudly displayed!

Posted by: wellred | March 4, 2008 2:59 PM | Report abuse

When did Hillary Clinton deliver health-care reform or demonstrate her economic wisdom and foresight while Alan Greenspan was warning of irrational exuberance as the subprime housing loans were created and pandered during her husband's administration and her husband supported China's entry into the World Trade Organization without any conditions such as protecting the environment or labor and property rights to levels that are comparable to western standards?

Today China is not only a leading contributor to environmental pollution and global warming (thank you very much Mr. Nobel Laureate, Al Gore), it's also pushing up oil and other commodity prices, taking our jobs and stealing our intellectual property.

If experience, wisdom and judgment may be relied upon to judge a presidential candidate's abilities to solve problems, then let's look at the records of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.

2005 - While Barack Obama promoted a restoration of balance between work and wealth and criticized special interests for distorting U.S. tax codes, Hillary Clinton and her husband liquidated their blind trust of the nearly $50 million amassed during their years in public office.

2002 - While Barack cautioned that without clear rationale an invasion of Iraq would encourage the worst impulses of the Arab world and strengthen the recruitment arm of Al Qaeda, Hillary told Larry King she didn't regret her vote on the Iraq war resolution because like the Bush administration, the Clinton administration viewed Saddam Hussein as a threat to the international community.

1999 - While Barack secured bipartisan support for health-care reform and passage of low-income tax credits and child care subsidies in the Illinois legislature, Hillary supported her husband's Iraq "regime change" policy in order to divert public attention from the president's marital, legal and ethical infidelities.

1989 - While Barack Obama served as the Harvard Law Review's first black president, Hillary Clinton then wife of the Arkansas governor received payments from a law firm that was doing the state's business and received board of director payments from Wal-Mart where she remained silent about Wal-Mart's anti-labor union practices.

1979 - While Barack Obama was actively involved in the South African divestment movement to end apartheid, Hillary reaped profits of almost 10,000% in the futures markets and left taxpayers with her real-estate losses in the Savings & Loan bailout.

In Hillary's eight (8) years in the Senate, the Congressional Record (www.thomas.gov) shows she "sponsored" only two (2) pieces of legislation that were presented to the president for signature. The first piece of legislation (S. 1241) was to establish a historic site in New York state, the second (S. 3613) was to name a U.S. Postal Service building.

At 3:00 AM who is Hillary gonna call in a national crisis? GHOSTBUSTERS? Without any attachment to a position and no leadership qualities or principles to guide her in a time of national crisis, Hillary like her husband, would need to first conduct a poll to determine what is in her political interest before committing to any national decision.

It's refreshingly nice to see the better angels of America's character prevailing as voters reject the racial, religious and ethnic slurs being spewed by the divisive supporters of Clinton, Limbaugh and Hannity.


PS. I HAVE BEEN A LIFELONG DEMOCRAT AND IF THIS DISGUSTING WOMAN - HILARYY CLINTON WINS THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINATION..

I WILL VOTE FOR MCCAIN IN NOVEMBER.

HER CAMPAIGN HAS DIRTIED UP THE DEMOCRAT PARTY.

Posted by: JANE | March 4, 2008 3:00 PM | Report abuse

When Osama Bin Laden leaves a message, who will be sending the reply?

Obama Be Liar?

Posted by: auto1 | March 4, 2008 3:00 PM | Report abuse

You won't have to worry about someone answering the phone at 3 am. What you WILL have to worry about is another IMPEACHMENT TRIAL! The following is still ongoing in the California courts. WHAT A MESS!!

Shame on You Hillary!
Your Deceptions Were Described By DOJ Prosecutors as Felonies!

You were projecting on Barak Obama your own misconduct when you said "You have been spreading false, misleading, discredited information".

You began deceiving the public and the government in 2000 about your top Senate campaign donor and "friend" Peter Paul when you TWICE lied in the Washington Post about taking any money from Paul AFTER you and Bill took more than $1.2 million from him (according to the FBI and DOJ Prosecutor).

Days later after vowing not to take money from Paul you faxed him on your Senate Campaign letterhead demanding he contribute an additional $100,000 in untraceable securities by illegally wiring it to a state committee supporting your candidacy.

You were right when you stated "The American people got shafted and (you're) going to have to make up for it."

You subverted three federal investigations to avoid your accountability and used your finance director as a foil to avoid your prosecution for the offenses he was improperly charged with.

DOJ Prosecutor Dan Schwager told the criminal jury in the election law fraud trial of your finance director David Rosen, in May 2005, that the basis of the government's prosecution was the crime of "denying the public's right to know that Peter Paul personally gave...more than $1.2 million..to your national campaign."


You and your agents have denied the public the right to know that fact ever since August 2000!

You used deception about that fact to win your election and re-election in 2006. You have denied the public's right to know who your largest donor was, how much he gave you and why.

The facts on the public record show that you have subverted: the Office of The President, through Bill Clinton, by using the Oval Office to commit felony violations of the campaign laws, the Department of Justice Office of Public Integrity through its Chief, Noel Hillman who set up a sham indictment and a show trial intended to cover up your illegalities, the federal judiciary through Howard Matz, the judge you appointed with Bill Clinton as co-president, who threw the Rosen trial with outrageous statements to the jury denying your involvement and the FEC itself through a fraudulent settlement that was based on a fourth false FEC report that gave you immunity from investigation!.

Its time to tell the truth at long last- File a True FEC Report That Finally Admits What the DOJ and FBI Have Sworn- You Took More than $1.2 Million in Contributions From Peter Paul and Have Hidden it From The Public ever Since!!

Posted by: Martha Davidson | March 4, 2008 3:00 PM | Report abuse

Howdy,
Is senator Clinton and senator Obama split everything in half, she should stay. That means nothing has changed. if she dose not get the TX or OH, and they still split everything in half, she should drop out, because she will have almost no reason to gain any momentum. If none of the allegations stick before the end of the day and MR. Obama wins both TX & OH, He will get the nomination even if he grow horn, pray to the Tasmanian devil and become homosexual!!

Posted by: Tony in Texas | March 4, 2008 3:00 PM | Report abuse

I think the press has been giving Hillary Clinton an easy ride all along. What IS this 35 years of experience she is talking about? Her horribly failed attempt at a health care program? She BLEW that one - and yet somehow comes out of it as most qualified to reform health care? The war? She BLEW that call, did'nt even bother to do the proper due diligence, and somehow she's best qualified to handle that horrible mess? Where is the logic in that? How was her years of work at the Rose Law Firm "public service experience? How was her work on the Wal-Mart board of directors "public service experience?" If it weren't for the novelty of her being a well-known woman, no one in the press would take her seriously. This is pure nepotism, and nothing more.

Posted by: Walden Greenwood | March 4, 2008 3:01 PM | Report abuse

Oh, and everyone needs to shut up about the "media conspiracy" theories. When you win, you get positive media coverage. That's just how it works. Don't say that Wisconsin, Virginia, and Maryland don't matter, and then whine about the media covering your rival.

Posted by: Yao | March 4, 2008 3:02 PM | Report abuse

I like bsimon's comment. It is generous and probably fairly accurate. But it is also true that Hillary has already done damage that will outlast her participation in this unless she manages to win the nomination at which point she will have other major issues. The fear smears in particular, the drug surrogates as well, etc., will be tested, confirmed and ready to go for the wacos surrounding and attending to McCain's campaign with or without his approval.

Posted by: Hmmm | March 4, 2008 3:02 PM | Report abuse

Why rush Hillary to concede if she loses either Texas or Ohio. How about the other remaining States. We havethis primary every four years as a way of bringing the candidates closer to the electorate, And not to stop the primary running, if one is ahead
without getting the required number of delegates. What is then is the convention for? For coronation. The rationale behind it is a coontinued campaign to solidify the party and the best and most able candidate
to win. Its the dynamics of american politics.
You shut it out, aand it would be differentt,

Obama has a sword hanging on his head. Rezko might implicate him to save his ass.
An indicted running candidate would be
a bad scenario come november election.,

So, let us continue the party...

Posted by: FTM02354 | March 4, 2008 3:02 PM | Report abuse

After Obama's recent clobbering by the Kitchen Sink.me thinks the Obama Natin will be an Obamination!!

Posted by: H-I-L-L-A-R-Y!!! | March 4, 2008 3:02 PM | Report abuse

I am a 58 yr. old Democrat, I would not vote for Hillary in Nov. given the vile way her campaign is ran.

Posted by: Robert | March 4, 2008 3:03 PM | Report abuse

I truly hope the superdelegates, and the party elders, will be able to pry her cold claws off this nomination. Hillary is only helping the Republicans with her constant negative attacks. Who has heard any negative attacks from McCain lately? He does not have to say a word, Hillary is doing it for him. She is disgustingly divisive.

Posted by: john in mke | March 4, 2008 3:04 PM | Report abuse

Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!! It only took ONE negative Obama post for one of his supporters to accuse someone of being paid to speak against Obama's "movement"!

Good job!! Are you earning YOUR paycheck, Mark?!?

"Or are you just "commenting for dollars" and thus unconcerned about little things like, um, making sense?"

Posted by: Carolyn | March 4, 2008 3:04 PM | Report abuse

Hillary is a divisive to the party. She relies on the spin of untruths and exaggerations buy votes. Even if hell froze over, I would not vote for her in the general election. Beware: She is running her campaign like she would run the country. Obama has been attacked from every corner of the earth and he has remained steadfast and positive. He is highly intelligent, diplomatic, has been State Senator for eight years and U.S. Senator for four (thus, throw out the unexperienced card). His ethics are stellar. This is the type of President that Americans need.

Posted by: Julie M | March 4, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse

When did Hillary Clinton deliver health-care reform or demonstrate her economic wisdom and foresight while Alan Greenspan was warning of irrational exuberance as the subprime housing loans were created and pandered during her husband's administration and her husband supported China's entry into the World Trade Organization without any conditions such as protecting the environment or labor and property rights to levels that are comparable to western standards?

Today China is not only a leading contributor to environmental pollution and global warming (thank you very much Mr. Nobel Laureate, Al Gore), it's also pushing up oil and other commodity prices, taking our jobs and stealing our intellectual property.

If experience, wisdom and judgment may be relied upon to judge a presidential candidate's abilities to solve problems, then let's look at the records of Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.

2005 - While Barack Obama promoted a restoration of balance between work and wealth and criticized special interests for distorting U.S. tax codes, Hillary Clinton and her husband liquidated their blind trust of the nearly $50 million amassed during their years in public office.

2002 - While Barack cautioned that without clear rationale an invasion of Iraq would encourage the worst impulses of the Arab world and strengthen the recruitment arm of Al Qaeda, Hillary told Larry King she didn't regret her vote on the Iraq war resolution because like the Bush administration, the Clinton administration viewed Saddam Hussein as a threat to the international community.

1999 - While Barack secured bipartisan support for health-care reform and passage of low-income tax credits and child care subsidies in the Illinois legislature, Hillary supported her husband's Iraq "regime change" policy in order to divert public attention from the president's marital, legal and ethical infidelities.

1989 - While Barack Obama served as the Harvard Law Review's first black president, Hillary Clinton then wife of the Arkansas governor received payments from a law firm that was doing the state's business and received board of director payments from Wal-Mart where she remained silent about Wal-Mart's anti-labor union practices.

1979 - While Barack Obama was actively involved in the South African divestment movement to end apartheid, Hillary reaped profits of almost 10,000% in the futures markets and left taxpayers with her real-estate losses in the Savings & Loan bailout.

In Hillary's eight (8) years in the Senate, the Congressional Record (www.thomas.gov) shows she "sponsored" only two (2) pieces of legislation that were presented to the president for signature. The first piece of legislation (S. 1241) was to establish a historic site in New York state, the second (S. 3613) was to name a U.S. Postal Service building.

At 3:00 AM who is Hillary gonna call in a national crisis? GHOSTBUSTERS? Without any attachment to a position and no leadership qualities or principles to guide her in a time of national crisis, Hillary like her husband, would need to first conduct a poll to determine what is in her political interest before committing to any national decision.

It's refreshingly nice to see the better angels of America's character prevailing as voters reject the racial, religious and ethnic slurs being spewed by the divisive supporters of Clinton, Limbaugh and Hannity.


ps . I have been a lifelong democrat m entire life. If Hilary wins the democratic nomination, I will change parties and vote for McCain.
If I have to I will offer rides to anyone else to go vote for McCain too.

Her campaign tactics are disgusting and it proves finally she is power hungry.

Posted by: JANE | March 4, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse

Al Gore needs to weigh in and pledge support for a candidate that has the majority of the delegates after the Tues 3/4 primaries.

Time for another "inconvenient truth" Al.

Edwards as well.

Posted by: Where is Big Gay Al? | March 4, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse

The red-phone is the worst campaign ad ever cooked up by the Clinton Campaign. It certainly looks like a McCain Ad. Even I, who is a lifelong democrat, would not want to picture Hillary Clinton being the one to answer any world-shattering call at 3am. How can any campaign advisor of hers think that this is her best characteristic to show off on?

Posted by: Joan C. Grossman | March 4, 2008 3:06 PM | Report abuse

If Hillary were to finally win the primary, we will never know if it was because:
1) she is White,
2) she is a woman,
3) she is perceived as the most electable,

Posted by: CONUNDRUM | March 4, 2008 3:06 PM | Report abuse

We Want CHANGE!!!

It'll be a sad day in America when an empty slate with all kinds of hidden agendas (mostly far far left) becomes the Democrat candidate. At least with Hillary we more or less know what we're getting.
With Obama all we can do is guess. He's one big Question Mark. And everyone is projecting on him their biggest fantasies from being the next Martin Luther King (Jakob Dylan's YouTube) to Farrakhan's messiah & "Hope for the entire world".


Meanwhile his campaign manager & puppeteer, David Axelrod, plagiarizes himself and hands Obama the same exact blueprint and lines he gave the failed governor of Massachusetts, Deval Patrick... "We Want Change!!!...We Can Do It!!!..Yes We Can!!!!". But the "believers" parading around chanting the empty slogans feel more like a bunch of naive kids jumping around a Barney TV show.


If you really want top see what kind of "change" & what they can "do", just ask the people of Massachusetts about Patrick "DeVille". Maybe that's why Obama lost so big up there.

What America REALLY wants is stability not false messiahs promising everything and anything to everybody & anybody. $4000 education tax credits? SOUNDS GREAT but Give us a break Barak!

Posted by: Dr. Dave | March 4, 2008 3:07 PM | Report abuse

"PS. I HAVE BEEN A LIFELONG DEMOCRAT AND IF THIS DISGUSTING WOMAN - HILARYY CLINTON WINS THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINATION..

I WILL VOTE FOR MCCAIN IN NOVEMBER."

PS - I will vote for a Republican for the first time in my life if Obama is the nominee. If we were choosing someone to lead a pep rally, sure, but this is for a real job. Come on, people.

Posted by: Laura | March 4, 2008 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Further to that "3 am phone call". As was reported on every single network this morning, the call would go to the PENTAGON!
After 8 years that senator Clinton lived in the White house, had her office in the WEST WING ....DON'T YOU THINK SHE WOULD KNOW THAT??!! What an insulting way to deal with the American voters! She must assume they are brainless fools, who don't pay attention to anything but commercials.

Posted by: Martha Davidson | March 4, 2008 3:08 PM | Report abuse


Hillary has the right to remain in the race as long as she wanted.. The reason that Obama supporters want her out is because they want to seal the deal before all his mess start hitting him in the campaign.... NAFTA and Revzo can be trouble for Obama.... also, one is needed 2000+ delegates to win the nominee... Why would Hillary drop....

The sad thig in this election, it seems to me that democrats do no want Obama... Look at Obama base.... Replicans, independents (anti Clinton votes) and blacks... This is not the base that you want to go to national election with... Unreliable..... Obama is winning because republicans are helping him win and they will walk away from him in the national election...

Posted by: Watchdog | March 4, 2008 3:08 PM | Report abuse

Carolyn:

"Some of us think experience and not a slogan is what's important, and we would vote for McCain."

First, you mean experience *in Washington*, right? It's Barack's experience that draws me to him. Experience working on the streets of Chicago for $12,000 a year (turning down high paying jobs elsewhere), experience as a civil rights lawyer, a state senator, a US senator, and yes, experience as a ten-year-old living overseas in what most Americans would consider abject poverty. I long desperately for that kind of broad perspective in the White House.

Let's not forget that Barack has the same amount of experience that Abe Lincoln had when he went to the White House, except that Abe was a state Representative rather than a state Senator.

But the bottom line is that experience only helps if you have the wisdom and integrity to interpret it and base your actions on the lessons of your experience. Obama has shown himself to have very good judgement, and the Iraq war is just one example of that.

He's the guy we need. Vote wisely, people.

Posted by: David in NC | March 4, 2008 3:09 PM | Report abuse

""Well," Clinton said with a smile, "never underestimate the intelligence of the voter.""

Apparently the "intelligence" of the voters who gave Senator Obama 11 wins in a row along with the lead in pledged delegates and popular vote doesn't count because they weren't for her. Once again Senator Clinton proves that her ambition and Hubris over rides her ability to hear.

Posted by: erich "hussein" | March 4, 2008 3:10 PM | Report abuse

This has helped me decide. The Obama supporters sound like lunatics while the Clinton supporters sound calm and rational. The Clinton administration gave me 8 good years followed by a nightmare. Obama hasn't given me anything, and as far as I know, voting "present" doesn't change anything. The only change he is capable of providing is to a different Republican in the White House. I hope Hillary stays in the race until the Obama frenzy subsides.

Posted by: Greg | March 4, 2008 3:10 PM | Report abuse

Regarding the Michigan Primary, which I voted in;
It had all the "democracy" of a Russian or Banana Republic Ballot, one name, endorsed by the Governor and Senator of Michigan, or an unheard of candidate, or "none of the above", to vote for you later, even for one you might oppose.
Wonder why a "revolution" is at hand?

Posted by: D. Maguire | March 4, 2008 3:12 PM | Report abuse

"A win is a win"

See, that's the thing: a win is NOT just a win. As we all know, it's not winner-take-all in the Dem primaries and caucuses. The fight for the nomination is about gathering delegates (and popular vote totals, perhaps, to persuade the supers).

Even though the media would treat the two in events very differently in the race for delegates and popular votes, HRC beating Obama by 1% is almost the same as HRC losing to Obama by 1%. Calling the first a 'win' for Hillary and the second a 'loss' for Hillary really just gets in the way of clear thinking about the contest.

In order to tie the pledged delegate totals, HRC now needs to win about 57% of the remaining available pledged delegates (incl. today's). If HRC were to 'win', say, 54% of the delegates in every single upcoming state (i.e. or as Mark Penn and some pundits would put it, 'win' each of those states), she would still be behind in pledged delegates, and would need to get the superdelegates to overturn the pledged delegate count, which they'd be very reluctant to do.

Moreover, many of the states upcoming after today won't be very favorable to her, and she's almost certain to score under 57% in some of them. That means that in order to tie the pledged delegate race, she needs to win more than 57% of the delegates in states that do favor her, to offset losses in other states. OH, TX and RI are all supposed to be such states, so she probably needs to win more than 57% of the delegates in TX, OH and RI, i.e. by more than a 14% spread (57%-43%).

I don't think the media have done a very good job of getting these facts out there, but they're very important to understanding what's going on. In general pundits tend to talk about each state's competition like it's an Olympic match - at the end someone gets the gold, someone gets the silver, bronze, and so on. But really, each state is more like an individual event in a decathlon or something - after eight events, what matters isn't 'winning' the next two, but winning by enough (or losing by little enough) that you have the highest score at the end.

It would be great if the media could speak mroe clearly about this. Many people who are starting to talk about HRC conceding have done the math, and seen just how hard it would be for her to overtake BHO. But until you do the math, those calls for her to step aside do sound arrogant and unfair to voters in the upcoming states. We could have a clearer discussion of whether/when one of the candidates should concede, if the rules of the game they were playing were more widely known.

Regards,
Beren

Posted by: Beren | March 4, 2008 3:12 PM | Report abuse

If HRC gets the nomination, I'll vote for McCain.

Posted by: publius | March 4, 2008 3:12 PM | Report abuse

It doesn't take a village. The village idiot could figure out why Clinton qualified her remarks ("as far as I know") in regard to the rumors that Obama is a Muslim. What a shrewd and malicious mudslinger she is. If the primary labors on for months, she will destroy the unity the party needs to defeat McCain.

Posted by: Dave Southern | March 4, 2008 3:12 PM | Report abuse

It doesn't matter who wins. The multi-nationals and depatment heads (paid lobbyists) are the ones who run the country by telling the President what to do to stay in power and further the agenda of those in power. They massage the presidents ego for power and their own in this way.

All the "figureheads/candidates" do is make us believe that we the people have a choice.

Elections are like a business operation. The business seduces you by creating a desire for things, turning a want into a need ("have to have it"), telling you that you are saving money if you purchase it at their store. Are you really? Wouldn't you save it if you didn't spend it? Lies.

If you doubt what I say, ask yourselves who supplied the misinformation about WMD in Iraq (those who would gain oil money or political influence in the region) and who did they use to do their dirty work for them (poor soldiers from the poorest states in America; where are the rich kids from NY or CA?). They used patriotism to suck in the rest of us.

In this election we are being lead to believe that we have a say. Yet, the leaders laugh at us. We have no real say. The President is only a figure head who talks tough on the election trail but when he/she is in the White House, they are controlled sub-consciously by all the "players" around them.

All the players say is, "President, if you want to stay in power, you should/shouldn't" or "our intel tells us that we should do such and thus" (the President doesn't have time to research the facts for herself).

This is how its always been. Just remember all the broken promises by all the past Presidents who were going to make a difference. Bill Clinton was one of those guys. Bush Sr. talked about a "new world order" and "world peace" during his tenure. Get the message- we are being used.

Posted by: Perspective | March 4, 2008 3:12 PM | Report abuse

"He arrived without a resume and he has closets full of dirty laundry." Thinker


Let me guess, you think HRC closets are empty........RIIIGHTTT! HRC is the one fooling the American public. I can over look one mistake in judgement (Rezko), but a pattern of scandals (Whitewater, Travelgate, Filegate, stealing $200K worth of the American public's property from the White House when she left,....i could go on but my point is made)

Lastly, we have one candidate on both sides who inspires, OBAMA.

Posted by: Open-eyed | March 4, 2008 3:12 PM | Report abuse

If HRC gets the nomination, I'll vote for McCain.

Posted by: mohamed | March 4, 2008 3:14 PM | Report abuse

"Al Gore needs to weigh in and pledge support for a candidate that has the majority of the delegates after the Tues 3/4 primaries."

Oh, my God!! Al Gore?!? The man who couldn't win what should have been a slam dunk election?!?! He should stick to movies.

Wow - if he's a standard bearer of any kind the Dems are really in trouble! LOL

Posted by: Anonymous | March 4, 2008 3:14 PM | Report abuse

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Posted by: Obama Rules | March 4, 2008 3:14 PM | Report abuse

If Obama is nominated I vote McCain.

Posted by: dehubert | March 4, 2008 3:15 PM | Report abuse

"I have 35 years of experience". Did the 8
White House years of Bill Clinton's presi
dency also counts?Remember while you were
reading the National Enquirer upstairs in
the Wh.House, Bill was busy downstairs with Monica L. and Hill.was not aware of the private lessons Bill was giving to Lewensky.Does these 8 years really count? shame on Hill to boast about these 8 years of experience. Edward /Miami

Posted by: Edward majorka | March 4, 2008 3:15 PM | Report abuse

Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!! Clinton!!

Posted by: If we're going for silly... | March 4, 2008 3:16 PM | Report abuse

All of you who voted Obama are complete idiots

Posted by: Karry | March 4, 2008 3:18 PM | Report abuse

I have but two words in response to Clinton's Rezko alarm: Norman Hsu!

Posted by: Michael | March 4, 2008 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Clinton, just like her husband, isn't interesting in what the people think and believe. She's only in this for herself, which is why she never imagined anyone could possibly beat her for this nomination. She's egocentric and a taker, just like her husband was. I am amazed that Democrats continued to be so blinded by the Clintons. If Dems hate the Bushes, then why would they like the Clintons? They represent the same garbage, over and over again.

And what makes Clinton "so" qualified to run this country? She can't even manage her own campaign successfully, and that's with everyone on HER side. What's she going to do in the Oval Office when not everyone is on her side? She's going to do worse than she did managing this campaign. She's just as divisive as Bush is, and if that's what Dems want, they're hypocrites and no better than the Republicans they profess to despise so much. Anyone who votes for Clinton is basically saying the only reason they're angry about Bush is because they're jealous.

Obama (and McCain, for that matter) can bridge gaps; Clinton cannot do the same. I want a healthier country in 2009; I don't want more of the same (albeit from the "other" side). I want a united country; Clinton is merely a great divider, just like her husband and just like W.

Posted by: Sam | March 4, 2008 3:21 PM | Report abuse

Aren't other people as SICK as I am of the negative, fear-mongering, other-guy-hating way of doing politics?

When will we send a message to our elected leaders that this is JUST NO LONGER ACCEPTABLE?

Negative campaigning may be unsavory, they say, but it's effective. If we want to change that, it's up to us to be vocal about our expectations.

Moving the goalposts is the old way. Eke out a win at all costs, "a win's a win."

Not for the country, though. Not for the country.

Posted by: MG from NYC | March 4, 2008 3:23 PM | Report abuse

WHAT poll says she should stay in if she loses? I DON'T BELIEVE IT. ALL THE POLLS HAVE BEEN 100% WRONG THIS SEASON!

The reason polling is terminally flawed - especially THIS one about her staying in as a big loser - is ONLY OLD PEOPLE USE LAND LINES USED FOR POLLING! Of course we all know senior citizens favor hillary.

I'm 46. I don't have a land line. I think Hillary MUST concede if she does not win both Ohio AND texas in a LANDSLIDE.

I will NOT stand by while John McCain opens a gap nationally while Hillary and a cadre of political dinasaurs and 1960's era activists cling to a lost dream "because its her turn".

POLL THAT!

Posted by: JBE | March 4, 2008 3:25 PM | Report abuse

I think that Hillary needs to stay in the race for the sake of the democratic party.

There will more things about Obama will come out, just be the nature of him being new. Some will be truly bad and some will be just imagined. Since he runs on transparency and ethics then it only takes very few verifiable negative stories to knock him off. The last two days, between Nafta-gate and the Rezko's trials, people I know who support Obama are taking a pause and starts to wonder.

The republican has tried and failed to knock off Bill Clinton twice, and Hillary twice too when she ran for the senate.

One other reasons for Hillary to stay in is that unless her voters see that this election becomes more objective from the DNC leaders then they will loose a big chunk of her votes to another party altogether.

Posted by: cybervote | March 4, 2008 3:27 PM | Report abuse

Well, that's just wrong. I will vote for the Democratic nominee for president, regardless. I will be unhappy with Senator Clinton as the candidate, because, whether fair, or not, if she is able to win the nomination, and then the election, her presidency will be as divisive as President Bush Jr.'s has. I am tired of that kind of politics.

I voted for Obama in the primary, because he is the first candidate that has a chance to be elected that I can vote FOR instead of simply voting for whatever was left after the first round of primaries.

Posted by: John D in Houston | March 4, 2008 3:28 PM | Report abuse

"For weeks, Hillary Clinton, her husband and top aides have suggested, hinted and outright stated that if she didn't win both the Ohio and Texas primaries today she would have to drop out of the Democratic presidential race."

Of course, Hillary never stated that. And despite the Goebbels Big Lie attempts of pseudo-journalist/Obama worshippers like Milbank, Bill never stated that either. He said: "If she wins Texas and Ohio, I think she'll be the nominee. If she doesn't, I don't think she can be."

That's a long way from saying "she would have to drop out." Since Milbank holds up Bill Clinton as the Great Arbiter of Truth, can we assume he will declare Hillary the all-but-certain nominee if she WINS both Texas and Ohio?

Posted by: Anonymous | March 4, 2008 3:33 PM | Report abuse

This weekend on Saturday,in Costa Rica, my English grandson, six last January, wanted to know why I was watching so much CNN news, so I explained there was a US primary election on. Anyway, to cut a long story short he wanted to know all about it and who were the candidates. On learning one was black, he initially didn't like the idea, but I didn't comment. In fact, I didn't comment at all on what I thought about any of them.

Move forward to Sunday. My grandson had been playing outside all morning. I was cooking and not paying attention when I realized the TV on and it was CNN. I looked into the room and there he was sitting on the sofa absolutely glued to the TV and watching the election coverage. He was there about 2 hours without his attention straying. Later, his father called from London and as my grandson got up to turn off the TV, I saw him give it a hug and a kiss and plea to it to help "black Obama" win the election. Then he spoke to his father and told him he wanted Obama to win and his father asked why, because he himself preferred Hillary (not having followed it of course!). My grandson exclaimed how could he possibly like Hilary because, direct quote, "She is old, whingey and mean." Talk about out of the mouths of babes!!

Posted by: Anonymous | March 4, 2008 3:33 PM | Report abuse

Re: "ABC Radio's Ann Compton asked what the candidate might do "if you are not as successful." "I don't think like that," Clinton parried."

Hmm, that sounds familiar...sort of like what our current president sounds like when talking about Iraq. Do we really want another president who assumes success and makes no contingency plans (or at least arrogantly refuses to even talk about the possibility of failure)? I smell insecurity behind the swagger.

Posted by: JH | March 4, 2008 3:35 PM | Report abuse

djbeers, jim, mark, simon, tosher, christopher london, yao, robert, johninmke, and jane:

I COULDN'T HAVE SAID ALL THOSE THINGS BETTER THAN YOU DID.

Hillary and her supporters are becoming delusional, and are re-arranging the deck chairs while helping to sink the Democratic Party more rapidly than the Titanic hit the bottom of the Atlantic.

Ready for 'Night One?' How about this, Ms. Clinton, be ready for your losses tonight.

Sweet dreams, and on your particular 'Day One' - tomorrow - maybe you should show a little class, as well as think about the landslide the Democratic Party could win against the Republikans when you (hopefully) withdrawal from your poorly-run effort.

Good night. And, btw, the Democratic Party could use your support starting tomorrow, March 5th - but not based on you or your ill-conceived candidacy.

Since you apparently can't lead or follow, please get the h&ll out of the way.

Posted by: Anonymous | March 4, 2008 3:35 PM | Report abuse

These Clintons are bad customers, so bad that they advertise their badness as the chief qualification that they offer. They will be at least as bad as W, and are proud of it. Their respect for the electorate is non-existent; anything for the win.

Posted by: Rarignac | March 4, 2008 3:36 PM | Report abuse

If Clinton tells reporters ahead of a fight she's going to quit if the results don't go her way, she'll look like a loser before it's over. She has to stay positive so as not to create the impression of a campaign that's admitting defeat. Obama is ahead but not that far ahead that Clinton needs to announce a decision to quit before the results are in. Imagine a team in the Superbowl making announcements about their likely loss before a ball is thrown or kicked.

Posted by: DHJ | March 4, 2008 3:37 PM | Report abuse

David in NC:
"But the bottom line is that experience only helps if you have the wisdom and integrity to interpret it and base your actions on the lessons of your experience. Obama has shown himself to have very good judgement, and the Iraq war is just one example of that."

If you can name me one other place he's had such impeccable judgment, I'd love to hear it, because the only one he plays like a broken record is his Iraq position. Mind you, he wasn't in a position to VOTE on it, just to make SPEECHES about it. A little easier. What would he have voted? "Present"?? I was against going into Iraq, too. Carolyn for President in 2008!!!!

-- Where was his impeccable JUDGMENT with Rezko?? FRIENDS with him for 17 YEARS and he has NO IDEA who he's dealing with?!?! Either he's lying about that, or he has some of the most questionable judgment out there!!

-- He enters into a real estate deal with Rezko AFTER he is under federal investigation?!!? Judgment?? Was it taking a break that day?

-- Where was his JUDGMENT in picking a church that promotes BLACK values when he wants to represent ALL Americans?

-- Where was his JUDGMENT picking that pastor of his as a mentor, who makes favorable comments about Farakhan and says this country always was and always will be racist??

-- Where is his JUDGMENT when he doesn't IMMEDIATELY reject Farakhan's endorsement out of hand?? Says he can't keep the man from thinking he's a good guy. BRAVE!! What a uniter!!

-- Where is his JUDGMENT when he runs around talking about how right he was about Iraq making us take our eye off Afghanistan while NOT HOLDING A SINGLE HEARING while charing a senate committee with jurisdiction?? Right - he was to busy running for president the moment he got to the senate.

-- Where is his JUDGMENT when he let his supporters take out an ad in NV that said Clinton doesn't care about Hispanic people?? His response? He can't control his supporters. Right - but she was supposed to control the teachers' unions. What a uniter!!!

-- Where was his JUDGMENT when he didn't come out IMMEDIATELY and say that he knew Clinton's LBJ/MLK comment was NOT racist?? He AGAIN waited until a direct question in a debate. BRAVE. What a uniter!!! HE played the race card!!

This man is NOT what he presents at his pep rallies. His friend Duval Patrick found that "Together We Can" got him elected (thanks to Obama;s campaign manager), but he fell on his face as governor because there IS A REAL JOB to be done after the stadium clears and people have stopped fainting at the sight of him. Because they will stop, you know.

What we need is change you can DELIVER ON, not just change that people who suspend reality can BELIEVE IN.

Posted by: Carolyn | March 4, 2008 3:40 PM | Report abuse

The 3 AM Call? Clinton DOESN'T EVEN KNOW the 3 AM Call....goes to the PENTAGON!!

What a dummy...

Posted by: Anonymous | March 4, 2008 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Who is Hillary? politician or actress ? Democrat or Republican ? Is she spending her election fund for nice dresses? Hilary Clinton is simply a political mediocre. She can only act as commander in chief, but never can truly perform that. Compared to her ability she has already gained more than enough. For her, politics is a way of building someone's carrier. That is why she could compromise with her husband few years ago. For ambition she can do anything even can destroy her party as she started undermine & defame another democrat.

Posted by: Anonymous | March 4, 2008 3:43 PM | Report abuse

Clinton's plagerism

Debate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H60y8mHMpmU

3AM ad:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/02/was-clintons-3am-ad-xe_n_89449.html

If it is a civil primary, it is only because Obama takes the high road.

Posted by: Absolute_0-K | March 4, 2008 3:43 PM | Report abuse

It is very humorous that all this attention is now being brought on Obama RE his former supporter. He does not deny his wrong doing and surely hasn't denied being involved with him.

Hillary on the other hand is married to Bill-O, who flat out LIED to the American people RE his relationship with Monica L. Now surely, Bill didnt do anything corrupt or criminal, but he DID LIE!

Posted by: JB | March 4, 2008 3:43 PM | Report abuse

Who is Hillary? politician or actress ? Democrat or Republican ? Is she spending her election fund for nice dresses? Hilary Clinton is simply a political mediocre. She can only act as commander in chief, but never can truly perform that. Compared to her ability she has already gained more than enough. For her, politics is a way of building someone's carrier. That is why she could compromise with her husband few years ago. For ambition she can do anything even can destroy her party as she started undermine & defame another democrat.

Posted by: Politra | March 4, 2008 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Sen. Obama's supporters (and he, himself) say that the "votes" count and that superdelegates should go with the candidate with the majority of the votes. Why not apply the same logic in Michigan & Florida. Sen. Clinton abided by the DNC rules and did not campaign in Michigan. She did allow her name to placed on the ballot. Sen. Obama could have easily done the same. He chose not to. If Michigan voters did not wish to vote for Sen. Clinton, they had the easy choice of voting for uncommitted. Sen. Clinton won. In Florida, Sen. Obama did choose to place his name on the ballot. He even ran tv commercials that appeared in Florida (although he claims this did not violate the agreement with the DNC). Sen. Clinton did not. As she has in every other large state except Illinois, she beat him decisively. So if Sen. Obama wishes to "revisit" his explicit decision to accept public financing if he is the Democratic nominee, why not revisit the seating of 2 states where voting was done fairly. He simply cannot claim that Sen. Clinton had a "name" advantage and that's the only reason she won. By the Michigan and Florida primaries, Sen. Obama had become one of the top tier candidates, won Iowa handily, appeared on nearly every major news show, etc. Michiganders and Floridians do not live in a vacuum. They have televisions and the internet and newspapers and magazines; they were well aware of Sen. Obama and made a choice. That choice was Sen. Clinton. Let Florida & Michigan count!

Posted by: dcjhw | March 4, 2008 3:44 PM | Report abuse

Baking cookies in the white house gives you experience? lol

Posted by: Big john | March 4, 2008 3:45 PM | Report abuse

YOU MIGHT BE AN IDIOT:-)

If you think Barack Obama with little or no experience would be better than Hillary Clinton with 35 years experience.

You Might Be An Idiot!

If you think that Obama with no experience can fix an economy on the verge of collapse better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) led the greatest economic expansion, and prosperity in American history.

You Might Be An Idiot!

If you think that Obama with no experience fighting for universal health care can get it for you better than Hillary Clinton. Who anticipated this current health care crisis back in 1993, and fought a pitched battle against overwhelming odds to get universal health care for all the American people.

You Might Be An Idiot!

If you think that Obama with no experience can manage, and get us out of two wars better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) went to war only when he was convinced that he absolutely had to. Then completed the mission in record time against a nuclear power. AND DID NOT LOSE THE LIFE OF A SINGLE AMERICAN SOLDIER. NOT ONE!

You Might Be An Idiot!

If you think that Obama with no experience saving the environment is better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) left office with the greatest amount of environmental cleanup, and protections in American history.

You Might Be An Idiot!

If you think that Obama with little or no education experience is better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) made higher education affordable for every American. And created higher job demand and starting salary's than they had ever been before or since.

You Might Be An Idiot!

If you think that Obama with no experience will be better than Hillary Clinton who spent 8 years at the right hand of President Bill Clinton. Who is already on record as one of the greatest Presidents in American history.

You Might Be An Idiot!

If you think that you can change the way Washington works with pretty speeches from Obama, rather than with the experience, and political expertise of two master politicians ON YOUR SIDE like Hillary and Bill Clinton..

You Might Be An Idiot!

If you think all those Republicans voting for Obama in the Democratic primaries, and caucuses are doing so because they think he is a stronger Democratic candidate than Hillary Clinton. :-)

Best regards

jacksmith...

Posted by: JackSmith1 | March 4, 2008 3:45 PM | Report abuse

Go McCain!!

Posted by: Anonymous | March 4, 2008 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Hillary, either you take a hint tomorrow and end your failed campaign, or the party will end it for you. I hope the Democrats censor Hillary in the Senate for her tactics in this campaign. Hillary...a true divider in our nation.

Posted by: News Flash to Hillary | March 4, 2008 3:46 PM | Report abuse

Just like us Democrats to shoot ourselves in the foot. Virtually all of the commentators above are Democrats, but you all sound more like Sunni and Shiites in Iraq! I support Sen. Obama (hard for me to get around Sen. Clinton's vote on the war and she's a little too close to the DNC and traditional party interests), but if she is the nominee I will back her enthusiastically. Sure, there are things I don't like about her, but she would be a fine president. Sen. Clinton would be far better than McCain both domestically and on foreign policy. Her health care plan, budgets, will be progressive, and even though she was wrong on the Iraq vote she will bring the troops home sooner than McCain.

Let's quit beating up on each other and focus on beating the Republicans in November! The country can't handle another four years of a Republican administration.

Posted by: David Expat | March 4, 2008 3:46 PM | Report abuse

All of you who vote for Hillary are jerks and fools. I would rather not vote or throw my vote away if that B**ch gets the nod. Obama is as much a flash in the pan as Reagan or Kennedy was. Let's put this devious woman up against father time. I can see some of America Greg, Laura and Carolyn...just don't get it. Idiots all of you...just stupid!

Posted by: Never again | March 4, 2008 3:47 PM | Report abuse

The 3 am call is the one she will get from reporters that Bubba's boinking Monica again...

Posted by: kimddanielson | March 4, 2008 3:47 PM | Report abuse

"Baking cookies in the white house gives you experience? lol"

Did you put lots of thought into this ridiculous statement?!? Some people who post here really deserve pity.

Posted by: Anonymous | March 4, 2008 3:48 PM | Report abuse

"If you think that Obama with little or no education experience is better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) made higher education affordable for every American. And created higher job demand and starting salary's than they had ever been before or since."


Obama was a Constitutional Law Professor at Harvard...he MIGHT know SOMETHING about Education!

But I'm for McCAIN!!

Bill Clinton...WAIT till the REPUBS get their hands on HIM! LOL!

Posted by: Anonymous | March 4, 2008 3:49 PM | Report abuse

The 1 million votes that Obama is leading past Clinton. all of them will shout like this:

Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama! Obama!
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Posted by: Hilliar Clitors | March 4, 2008 3:49 PM | Report abuse

Can we all agree not to type in caps anymore? It's not big, or clever.

Posted by: schlep | March 4, 2008 3:50 PM | Report abuse

"I have but two words in response to Clinton's Rezko alarm: Norman Hsu!"

I have two words for you, Karry: ALREADY INVESTIGATED.

What about Obama's dirty laundry?!? Give the Republicans a bit of time...

Welcome President McCain!

Posted by: Carolyn | March 4, 2008 3:51 PM | Report abuse

McCain will WHOOP Clinton on EXPERIENCE.

But the Dems should keep fighting, it saves us from dirtying them up. They'll knock each other out.

Posted by: Sammit | March 4, 2008 3:52 PM | Report abuse

YOU MIGHT BE AN IDIOT:-)

If you think Barack Obama with little or no experience would be better than Hillary Clinton with 35 years experience.

You Might Be An Idiot!...

...If you think her "35 years of experience" means anything substantial. She is 60. She left Yale Law School at age 25. Evidently she considers everything she has done since school, from her years at Little Rock's Rose Law Firm to her good fortune with cattle futures, as presidentially relevant experience.

The president who came to office with the most glittering array of experiences had served 10 years in the House of Representatives, then became minister to Russia, then served 10 years in the Senate, then four years as secretary of state (during a war that enlarged the nation by 33 percent), then was minister to Britain. Then, in 1856, James Buchanan was elected president and in just one term secured a strong claim to being ranked as America's worst president. Abraham Lincoln, the inexperienced former one-term congressman, had an easy act to follow.

So much for her 'experience' being an indication of the quality of an administration led by her.

Posted by: Absolute_0-K | March 4, 2008 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Clinton represents all the things that have gone wrong in Washington. A vote for her means you are accepting the status quo of our political system. A system that is totally dysfunctional and controled by special interest money. Where is all her campaign financing coming from the same special interest groups that control Washington now. Big money talks and she is totally connected to it she has made a living off it all her life. Look at her tax returns see where her and Bill's money is coming. She certainly does not have any other job(she is a paid senator's salary that can't be all of it) so who are all these people who are giving her millions. Who gave her the mansion she has in NY state? Why isnt anyone looking at this. What will she change she is on the take from big business. Whose interests will she be concerned about? Certainly not ours. She brings nothing to the table she has nothing to offer, there is nothing of substance here she is strictly a political manipilator.
Listen to what she is saying then after she is done tell me what she just said or stands for? She has laundry lists of things she is going to do. Just saying things that do not mean anything just sounds good. She claims she is for change ? How can she change anything if she is in Big Business and special interests pocket.

Posted by: William Newman | March 4, 2008 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Yo, jacksmith: You are an idiot!

First for stealing Jeff Foxworthy's funny comedy routine "you might be a redneck," and then for your blatant lies about Obama's weaknesses, as well as your lies about Clinton's strengths.

See you tomorrow, when Obama beats your golden girl.

Then where will you turn your wildly stupid rants to?

Posted by: Captain John | March 4, 2008 3:52 PM | Report abuse

Whose 20 year old Daughter is Bill going to "play" with THIS TIME?

Posted by: Anonymous | March 4, 2008 3:54 PM | Report abuse

From today's "Head of State"
http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/03/inside-kitchen-sink.html

"Tuesday, March 04, 2008
Inside The Kitchen Sink

From the NYT:

After struggling for months to dent Senator Barack Obama's candidacy, the campaign of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton is now unleashing what one Clinton aide called a "kitchen sink" fusillade against Mr. Obama, pursuing five lines of attack since Saturday in hopes of stopping his political momentum.

Let's see what has been tossed inside the kitchen sink:

-A vicious email smear campaign, falsely portrays Obama as a Muslim. He has been a devout Christian for 20 years. The Clinton camp has the opportunity to firmly decry such tactics, or to sow the seeds of doubt. Clinton on 60 minutes: If he says that he is a Muslim "I'll take him at his word";

- A picture of Obama dressed in traditional Somali garb, mysteriously arises and is splashed across the front page of the Drudge Report, designed, like the above, to inflame the most base and simplistic prejudices. Again, the Clinton campaign has the opportunity to refuse to use prejudice and stereotype to political advantage. Clinton campaign manager Maggie Williams responds: "If Barack Obama's campaign wants to suggest that a photo of him wearing traditional Somali clothing is divisive, they should be ashamed";

-Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper, is a Conservative. His Chief of Staff Ian Brodie leaks supposed minutes of statements by an Obama aide. The statement is not by the Obama aide, and the minutes were not taken by the Obama aide, they were taken by a Canadian official. Liberal Canadian parties decry the attempt by the Conservative Party to influence the U.S. election. The Clinton camp accepts this specious account as valid--and throws it in the kitchen sink as well;

-The Clinton camp, in Drudge-like fashion, insinuates dark misdoings regarding Antoin Rezko--despite the fact that there has been absolutely no allegations of wrongdoing by Obama--hoping perhaps that the mere association will stick--and despite the questions that have been raised about Clinton fundraising during the years of her own "experience";

-The Clinton campaign rolls out the hackneyed "red phone" advertisement, dating to Walter Mondale's 1984 campaign, to suggest that she, unlike Obama, has greater experience for such "3 A.M. moments". When asked to name one such crisis situation that she has actually had to deal with, she is unable to name one.

-Mark Penn, the Clinton campaign's chief strategist, in the weekend panic, emails the L.A. Times to state that he had "'no direct authority in the campaign,' describing himself as merely 'an outside message advisor with no campaign staff reporting to me.'"

This sink is filled with the type of fear-based politics that we have come to know so well over these past 8 years. It is fundamentally defensive, and is all-too-willing to use the familiar tools of dishonesty and distortion in pursuit of victory. It indicates how a Clinton Administration would respond to adversity--with a tactical fusillade of presentations, followed by distortion and attack.

It's time to clean the dishes. Don't allow yourself to be misled by misrepresentation, insinuation and division. Leave this kind of politics behind."

Cite:
Head of State
http://headofstate.blogspot.com/2008/03/inside-kitchen-sink.html

Posted by: Robert Hewson | March 4, 2008 3:54 PM | Report abuse

Good grief, if you whiners don't stop saying Hillary is going to damage the democratic party....that's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of. First of all, the American people deserve to have a choice and Hillary has the right to continue her campaign. She has way too many supporters to not continue. I would have been quite upset with her had she dropped out prior to today because I wanted to vote! And millions of others do too! Obama is not all that. He's teleprompters and speeches and says one thing and has been proven to, on quite a few occasions DO another! Why should he win any more than Hillary? He's a politician just like the rest of them. The difference is, that Hillary is not claiming to be the democratic demigod. She's straight up about her way of politics and she goes after it and has not minced too many of her words. She doesn't set specific dates for troop withdrawal because that's a promise that could VERY WELL BE BROKEN. Does Obama not realize that? And not to mention the discussion with the canadians regarding the "political positioning" of his campaign. lol. America is stupid if they fall for this crap. Give him another 8 years in the senate. He should be ready by then. It's like Jack Nicholson says, "experience means something."

Posted by: Ellie | March 4, 2008 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Yo Hilliar Clitors:

Although I support Obama, your childish cut and paste that took up way too much space was just that - childish.

Make your point, don't take up the entire page.

Posted by: Captain John | March 4, 2008 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Hillary endorsed John McCain over Obama yesterday.

"I think that I have a lifetime of experience that I will bring to the White House. I know that Senator McCain has a lifetime of experience that he would bring to the White House. And Senator Obama has a speech he gave in 2002." - Hillary Clinton 03/03/08

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou4JnWQsxKw

This is an EXTREMELY unusual thing for a major party candidate to say! Perhaps she's hoping that McCain will beat Obama, so she can run again in 2012 - if she doesn't get the nomination this time.

Talk about putting yourself ahead of your party! Not to mention the lives of the American soldiers that John McCain would keep in Iraq "for 100 years". It's also hard to reconcile her statement with her promise in the debates to support the eventual Democratic nominee...I guess she forgot to add "...as long as it's ME!".

Posted by: Peter, Woonsocket RI | March 4, 2008 3:55 PM | Report abuse

Carolyn,
Obama has run the cleanest campaign I have ever seen. The fact that you complain about him not running background checks on his friends, or picks the time&location for his being born again to Christ just goes to show how Hillary's got almost no dirt to work with.
He and his judgment is certainly not perfect, but the Clintons' are fundamentally flawed.

Posted by: FLRepublican | March 4, 2008 3:55 PM | Report abuse

I want to break down for you guys why I'm for Obama (and against Hillary). I only chose to back Obama after this race was down to two candidates. Obama and Hillary are both centrists with very similar policies. I would prefer it if a progressive won the nomination, however that can't always be the case.

There are certain people in the Democratic party who underming the Progressive Netroots movement. James Carville, Rahm Emanuel, Bob Shrum... these are the bad guys of the Democratic party (which still makes them better than republicans) but nevertheless these people support the DLC, they want to ignore the community by undermining Dean and his 50 state strategy (which seems to be working). They slam down netroots candidates in primaries whenever possible. I bet you know who they are supporting... Hillary Clinton.

The Clintons have a long relationship with the DLC and these party insiders. So much so Hillary probably believed it was her turn to be president... want evidence? She had to promise New York she would serve a full term in office before running for the presidency.

Hillary uses these old dirty political tactics and I'm frankly sick of it. Just look at her in desparation... she has tried just about every tactic in the book to stop Obama. Tactics like comparing him to Karl Rove, Mocking him and his supporters, putting out negative ads, floating pictures of Obama in traditional kenyan garb, trying to nail him on his associations (something the Clintons should stay well away from considering their colorful history). Hillary Clinton in the last 2 weeks has proven all of my preconceptions about her to be true.

Also... Hillary doesnt have experience. Not the kind of experience she pretends to have anyway. Sure, she knows how to campaign... she was involved in that. She knows what its like to sit on the board of directors at Walmart. But how to be president?

Now turning to Obama... my biggest negatives about him are this: he is centrist, he supported lieberman before lieberman lost the primary (then Obama supported Lamont... so at least he made ammends). He doesn't have a distinguished career in the senate meaning he could have made an important stand or two to oppose bush polices (However Hillary is also guilty of this).

On Obama's positives: He's a constitutional law professor. The president's job is to defend the constitution. This is a great plus for me. He speaks like I want my president to speak. After 7 years of Bush that is actually important to me. He has inspired many new voters. He looks to be viable in a 50 state campaign. His campaign has not gone negative (not in any way that crossed a line) when it certainly had the opportunities and need, he really does seem to be better than those politics and finally he's fresh. He doesn't have those insidious leeches all over him (the ones I mentioned in the begining of my post). Will power corrupt Obama? Sure... to what degree I don't know... but he's not corrupt yet.

Listen to yourselves: CHANGE! EXPERIENCE! those are talking points. Become more informed voters.

Posted by: pdxgeek | March 4, 2008 3:56 PM | Report abuse

"What Hillary and her handlers cannot accept is that while many of her supporters would vote for Obama vs McCain, the same is not true the other way around."

Wrong. Look at exit polls and you will find the opposite is true.

I know MANY Democrats (including myself) who will vote Republican for the first time ever if Obama is the nominee. Some of us think experience and not a slogan is what's important, and we would vote for McCain.

Carole- Just because Hillary was around while her husband was in the White House doesn't mean she helped make decisions. She didn't have a security clearance or access to the daily briefings, so how was she able to offer advice? So, if you an honest look at the situation w/out all the spin. There is no presidential 'experience' that she has.
So its all just a slogan!
Obama isn't the second coming and I like alot of his supporter don't think that way about him. He just appears to be honest and forthcoming about what he thinks.
My question is this, if Obama was in the Hillary's position right now and he started bring up Whitewater, billing at Rose Law, the fundraiser Mr. Hsu, the White House travel office, etc.
Would you or any of her supporters say its all a part of the campaigning? That all of the dirt on her is fair game? That he's destroying the unity in the party?
If you have noticed, Obama has not brought up any of this and his campaign hasn't been pushing for the press to investigate any of her past issues (unlike Hillary's).

Posted by: priceisright | March 4, 2008 3:56 PM | Report abuse

YOU MIGHT BE AN IDIOT:-)
If you think Hillary Clinton'S 35 years of experience really is 35 that includes 8 years in the white house running after Monica Lewinski.
You Might Be An Idiot!
If you think that Hillary can fix the economy by acting, crying, yelling "Shame on you" to America
You Might Be An Idiot!
If you think Hillary Clinton can actually fix health care that she herself FAILED when she secretly planned behind closed doors to make it but FAILED!
You Might Be An Idiot!
If you think that Hillary Clinton can FOOL the American people with her LIES AND CRIES.
You Might Be An Idiot!
You Might Be An Idiot!
You Might Be An Idiot!
You Might Be An Idiot!
You Might Be An Idiot!
You Might Be An Idiot!
You Might Be An Idiot!
You Might Be An Idiot!
You Might Be An Idiot!
You Might Be An Idiot!
You Might Be An Idiot!
You Might Be An Idiot!

Best regards
George Loonie

Posted by: George | March 4, 2008 3:59 PM | Report abuse

Obama hasn't brought this stuff up because it's all OLD NEWS!!!!! ANCIENT, in some cases. HIM, we don't know anything about yet because the press was too busy fawning over him. Why should Clinton drop out just as people are finally investigating Obama a bit??

"My question is this, if Obama was in the Hillary's position right now and he started bring up Whitewater, billing at Rose Law, the fundraiser Mr. Hsu, the White House travel office, etc.
Would you or any of her supporters say its all a part of the campaigning? That all of the dirt on her is fair game? That he's destroying the unity in the party?
If you have noticed, Obama has not brought up any of this and his campaign hasn't been pushing for the press to investigate any of her past issues (unlike Hillary's)."

Posted by: Anonymous | March 4, 2008 4:02 PM | Report abuse

I am surprised that the media allowed themselves to be maniuplated and handled by the Clintons--She is complaining of unfair treatment but she was not complaining when the press crowned her the front runner. It is laughable that Hillary holds her her experience when Joe Biden and Bill Richardson all have more experience and better resumes than she.

Posted by: Orson | March 4, 2008 4:02 PM | Report abuse

FLRepublican: This is not about whether he's run a clean campaign or not. He claims to have a monopoly on impeccable judgment based on ONLY ONE judgment. Don't you think it's fair to examine his judgment on other issues? Don't you think that rings a little hollow in light of some of the stuff that the media is only starting to focus on where he's concerned?

Posted by: Carolyn | March 4, 2008 4:04 PM | Report abuse

Moving the goalposts and firewalls again? This reminds me of the aging divas of the operatic stage: Wait for yet another absolutely last final farewell performance, folks!

Posted by: Bodo | March 4, 2008 4:04 PM | Report abuse

At first I thought "how great would it be if either of these candidates won and ran with the other as their vise president". After seeing the way HRC changes her mood/ political stance daily. I don't care who was on the ticket with her, BHO or anyone else you can think of, I would vote the other way. We cannot afford another 4 years of these kinds of politics. Obama 2008!

Posted by: Geeze | March 4, 2008 4:12 PM | Report abuse

"If you think that Obama with no experience can fix an economy on the verge of collapse better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) led the greatest economic expansion, and prosperity in American history.

You Might Be An Idiot!"


You must be an idiot if...

you think that an American President can be credited with or blamed for the state of the U.S. economy. In any event, the economic expansion which occured under Ronald Reagan's Administration was a more impressive turn around from the post-Vietnam, post-oil embargo stagflation of 70's and lasted just about as long as the one which coincided with Clinton's Administration. Big deal. If the economy was tied to an Administration's performance, Clinton's would have tanked during his second term.

Posted by: Absolute_0-K | March 4, 2008 4:13 PM | Report abuse

@Thinker
They won't be denied their voice, they are losing it. Both literally and figuratively,she has lost her voice in the past, is losing it now, and keeps finding a new voice weekly (weakly?).

I am one of those who will never vote for Hillary. Her constant attacking and "me, me, me" speeches always sounds like a whining three year old. Have you listened to her rallies? "I need YOU to put ME in the White House."

And tell us exactly what resume HC brings to the table? Wife of a life-long politician who won against a no-name opponent by less than a 10 point spread for her first elected office in New York state and then the next election by an unremarkable margin. That gave her thirty plus years of "experience"? I would say a bit more than ten, which BO can easily claim from the Ill. State and U.S. legislatures.

========================
And that 50% of Democratic voters are not going to be denied their voice and Democrats will not be rushed through this interview process
Posted by: Thinker | March 4, 2008 02:45 PM

Posted by: WorkingDad | March 4, 2008 4:17 PM | Report abuse

I would like to add....
If Hillary couldn't keep her household together, how does she think she can handle a country?

I mean, did we forget about the Monica Lewinsky, the Jennifer Flowers, and I forget the other one. Where was Hillary when all this was going on?

Let me tell you.... if its 3 am and something does happen... I don't want my President to go MIA...

All of my friends in the UK love Barak Obama. I had someone from London call me and said please vote for him on their behalf.

Posted by: KK Toledo | March 4, 2008 4:17 PM | Report abuse

Carolyn,
Actually, the Obama campaign (or, movement is a better word) is about Change, and the first step is how to run an inspirational campaign. He said flat out that he is not perfect, but that the frustrations with deadlock & scandals in Washington can be overcome with a new coalition between Democrats and Republicans such as myself.
The "impeccable judgment" that you cite is something Hillary conjured up from her war room and put into Obama's mouth. No body's perfect. She just has a tendency to do what's "expedient" rather than what's "right". No shame in that, but not something to look for in a President.

Posted by: FLRepublican | March 4, 2008 4:18 PM | Report abuse

Now I am convinced Obamaites are other-worldly. Why would anyone want to polute the blogs with repetitions of words and phrases is beyond me.
Did they accidentally hit the wrong key? Maybe they should go into the wallpaper business, just like Obama himself.

Posted by: alee21 | March 4, 2008 4:19 PM | Report abuse

"If you think that Obama with no experience fighting for universal health care can get it for you better than Hillary Clinton. Who anticipated this current health care crisis back in 1993, and fought a pitched battle against overwhelming odds to get universal health care for all the American people.

You Might Be An Idiot!"


Well, You must be an idiot if you think Clinton's terrible failure at Health Care reform is experience to be proud of. "A pitched battle against overwhelming odds" you say? What a joke! She failed, miserably. She made things much worse than they were before she mucked up everything with her highly secretive, over-bearing, overblown attempts to dictate a universal healthcare system.

Furthermore, Robert Reich, Bill Clinton's secretary of labor and the head of Clinton's economic transition team has the following to say about the Health Care Proposal Debate:

Both of them are big advances over what we have now. But in my view Obama's would insure more people, not fewer, than HRC's. That's because Obama's puts more money up front and contains sufficient subsidies to insure everyone who's likely to need help -- including all children and young adults up to 25 years old. Hers requires that everyone insure themselves. Yet we know from experience with mandated auto insurance -- and we're learning from what's happening in Massachusetts where health insurance is now being mandated -- that mandates still leave out a lot of people at the lower end who can't afford to insure themselves even when they're required to do so

Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/why-is-hrc-stooping-so-lo_b_75191.html

Posted by: Absolute_0-K | March 4, 2008 4:19 PM | Report abuse

Say, whatever became of svreader?

Posted by: OD | March 4, 2008 4:20 PM | Report abuse

"I would like to add....
If Hillary couldn't keep her household together, how does she think she can handle a country?"

Wow - what a sad comment. So I suppose any woman who is cheated on by her husband can't possibly be good at her job?

That's right, though, no sexism in this campaign, even though twice as many people think the country is ready for a black president over a female president.

Posted by: Carolyn | March 4, 2008 4:20 PM | Report abuse

If Obama wins the primary I for the first time in my life will vote republican. Obama is NOT ready, and this country needs a leader not an infant!

Posted by: deminMT | March 4, 2008 4:22 PM | Report abuse

FLRepublican, believe me - I know it's about change. It's about the WORD change, anyway.

OK - give me one example of Obama reaching across the aisle since he has been a US Senator, to show that this is not all talk on this "uniting Washington" thing.


"Carolyn,
Actually, the Obama campaign (or, movement is a better word) is about Change, and the first step is how to run an inspirational campaign. He said flat out that he is not perfect, but that the frustrations with deadlock & scandals in Washington can be overcome with a new coalition between Democrats and Republicans such as myself."

Posted by: Carolyn | March 4, 2008 4:23 PM | Report abuse

I am disgusted with Hillary and her actions. Her effort to destroy Obama is very revealing. This is about her ego, rather than the good of the party.

Besides, her war vote was all about being Presidential...well, it may have been just that, but it is also the reason she is losing.

Posted by: Stu | March 4, 2008 4:24 PM | Report abuse

Obama across the lines:

Coburn-Obama Transparency Act, passed into law.

BTW: Coburn is a Republican from Oklahoma.

Posted by: Rev JD | March 4, 2008 4:30 PM | Report abuse

Dear PriceisRight and other Clinton supporters,

Hillary is experience, but so is Obama. Obama and Hillary are virtually identical on the issues. Why would you change parties if she happens to lose?

They both have government experience and other legal experience. Obama has served as a state senator and US Senator for 12 years, while teaching Constitutional Law at University of Chicago. Hillary has served 8 in the US Senate and worked in private practice prior to being first lady.

Yes, he excites voters, but shouldn't a president do just that - to build coalitions and sentiment for ideas?

I was just at Obama HQ and it is amazing to see the the mix of people who are excited about the democratic process and the party. Please don't dismiss us as being naive or young. We are women, men, old, poor, young, rich, middle-class, working class, black, white, Latino, Asian, Indian, educated, artists, business people.

We are hard workers, we are intelligent, and we believe that while Clinton has the potential be a good leader, Obama has the potential to be a great leader. And, yes, oration skills are an important part of the equation - remember Congress really does the heavy lifting.


I'm excited to see you all interested in the primary. People have been bored by politics in the US for a long time, so whatever happens, this has been the best political year I've ever seen.

Posted by: Julia | March 4, 2008 4:30 PM | Report abuse

Oh yeah... I forgot one of the most important reasons to vote for Obama over Hillary. Maybe its because everyone knows it already but what the hell its still out there.

Hillary voted to authorize the war. Obama made statements at the time opposing that legislation.

P.S. You can credit Bill for the reduction of the deficit and creation of a surplus. You can't credit him for the booming economy of the 90's. The presidents ability to steer the economy would be better described as the ability to nudge once in a while.

Posted by: pdxgeek | March 4, 2008 4:30 PM | Report abuse

I like McCain, and think both Clinton and Obama stink, but there is no reason for her to drop out now, and she has every right to pursue the nomination. I personally think that Obama is full of it...he wants everyone to move to the left where he is, not him moving to the center. This is fine if you agree with his political beliefs, and I respect those of you who do, but Independents and Republicans need to take a long, hard look at him.

First off, these are primaries, not the general election, so only about 40% or so registered Democrats even bother to vote. This means that Obama has the support of approximately 20% or so of registered Democrats. Then you have to take out the states that have open primaries, so the actual amount of registered Democrat support drops even lower for him. Hillary is not that far behind him in that regard. Maybe more registered Democrats who will vote in the general election like Hillary...you don't know.

Second, Hillary never campaigned in either FL or MI...she did make ONE appearance at a fundraiser in FL, on the day of the primary. Therefore the voters did not get exposure to ads or appearances by either candidate, and they both voted for Clinton. Why should they have to have a "do-over" primary?

The Democrats have painted themselves into a corner here. If Clinton does win TX and OH she can claim to have won every large state but one (Obama's home state). If they seat the FL and MI delegates then Obama's lead suddenly shrinks. If they do not, then they offend voters in two of the largest (and swing) states.

Either way the voters have NOT made a clear choice, the party activists have. Therefore, why would Clinton not have the right to have the supers vote for her, and they would not be off base in doing so. Of course, if they do and she wins the nomination, then the Democratic party proceeds to tear itself apart.

I think McCain whips either one of them, but it makes for interesting theater.

Posted by: Michael | March 4, 2008 4:35 PM | Report abuse

"Obama across the lines:
Coburn-Obama Transparency Act, passed into law.
BTW: Coburn is a Republican from Oklahoma.
Posted by: Rev JD | March 4, 2008 04:30 PM "

HILLARY CLINTON AND 5 OTHER SENATORS ALSO CO-SPONSORED THIS BILL!!!! Got anything else?? :)

"In addition to Sen. Coburn and Sen. Obama, the 45 other Senators who have co-sponsored this bill are:[7] Lamar Alexander, George Allen, Max Baucus, Evan Bayh, Jeff Bingaman, Barbara Boxer, Sam Brownback, Richard Burr, Maria Cantwell, Tom Carper, Saxby Chambliss, Hillary Clinton, Norm Coleman, Susan Collins, John Cornyn, Larry Craig, Jim DeMint, Mike DeWine, Chris Dodd, Elizabeth Dole, Dick Durbin, Mike Enzi, Russ Feingold, Bill Frist, Chuck Grassley, Chuck Hagel, Johnny Isakson, John Kerry, Jon Kyl, Mary Landrieu, Joe Lieberman, John McCain, Mitch McConnell, Bob Menendez, Bill Nelson, Harry Reid, Ken Salazar, Rick Santorum, Jeff Sessions, Olympia Snowe, John Sununu, Jim Talent, Craig Thomas, John Thune, David Vitter, and George Voinovich."

Posted by: Carolyn | March 4, 2008 4:36 PM | Report abuse

"If you think that Obama with no experience can manage, and get us out of two wars better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) went to war only when he was convinced that he absolutely had to. Then completed the mission in record time against a nuclear power. AND DID NOT LOSE THE LIFE OF A SINGLE AMERICAN SOLDIER. NOT ONE!

You Might Be An Idiot!"


You must be an idiot to even bring up Iraq as some kind of positive talking point for Hillary Clinton.

What "war" are you talking about? That absolute failure in Mogadishu? Kosovo was a Nato led action. Bill doesn't merit full credit for that.
Military casualties during the Clinton Administration:
>>1993 ......... 1,213
>>1994 ..........1,075
>>1995 ..........2,465
>>1996 ......... 2,318 Clinton years @13,417 deaths
>>1997 .......... 817
>>1998 ......... 2,252
>>1999 ......... 1,984 -------------------------------------------------

Source:
http://www.matchdoctor.com/thread_88_26018_1/Far_more_military_presonnel_died_during_Clinton_s_Presidency_than_during_Bush_s.html

Posted by: Absolute_0-K | March 4, 2008 4:37 PM | Report abuse

"Obama made statements at the time opposing that legislation."

So did almost half the country, and countless other countries around the world. I thought from the beginning that Bush hadn't made a credible case, that they were manipulating Powell with the yellowcake uranium stuff, etc., etc. Should I be president? Look at his judgment on other issues. Are you as comfortable with it?

Posted by: Carolyn | March 4, 2008 4:40 PM | Report abuse

The Clinton haters are out in full force today I see. Interesting that a potential for Hillary to win both Ohio and Texas brings them out.

I would say that if Hillary wins both she has to stay in. She will then have won nearly all the big states the Dems need to win the Presidency. If Hillary is the candidate she will win all the states Kerry won and add to that Ohio-especially if she chooses Strickland as the VP and potentially Florida. And that along with Arkansas and maybe New Mexico will make her the President.

With Obama we have no idea. If he can't get the Hispanic vote he will have to work to even win California. And as Pat Buchanan said- the ads against him will make the swift boat ads seem like public service announcements.

The reality is that Obama hasn't been vetted and his negatives will go up faster than the price of gas when he is. I would vote for him but I am not sure I would be in a majority.

The press is already starting to question him and the time to do that is before he becomes the nominee not after.

So contrary to the Richardson's of the party I hope Hillary stays in until he is vetted. Then if he is the nominee at least the party will know what we are getting. To this point we don't. He sounds like Martin Luther King but hasn't done anything to merit a comparison, he sounds like JFK but again JFK was a real war hero and in Congress 14 years and he still needed Daley to vote the gravestones in Chicago. Don't know if this Daley can do the same?

Let the real Barack Obama stand up before we annoint him. Don't worry about what Hillary will say in the next two months worry about what the Republicans will do to him. Hillary has been gentle and the press has been missing in Action. Let's hope that changes.

Posted by: peterdc | March 4, 2008 4:41 PM | Report abuse

The reality is that Hillary will not be able to catch up on delegates by the end of the primary season unless she wins big. We are about to see if she can do that. A win is not a win in this game and Obama appears to have Hillary in check.

Is there a startegy beyond the kitchen sink? We shall see.

Posted by: Redline | March 4, 2008 4:41 PM | Report abuse

Exactly, they added their name to it. Its called the Coburn-Obama Transparency Act for a reason. Not the Coburn-and all of you who signed on board Act. That is not how the Hill works.

The persons who sponsor it are also responsible for ensuring that it gets passed into law. Hence, the reason that it has its name. Sen. Coburn and Sen. Obama led this effort.

You can be a Hillary, Huckabee, McCain or Obama supporter, but don't diminish what someone has accomplished because you don't like them.

Posted by: Rev JD | March 4, 2008 4:43 PM | Report abuse

Hillary going after Obama on Rezko is just another reason she should get out of the race and be ashamed of herself. Every such hit by Hillary legitimizes a reprise of every allegation and rumor and innuendo thrown at her over the past 16 years: the billing records from the Rose Law Firm; Whitewater; the commodity market bonanza; Webster Hubble, her law partner, who ended up going to prison; the WH travel office; Vince Foster; her income tax returns; the papers in the Clinton library that just can't be sorted out by the archivists; the furniture that had to be returned to the White House; etc., etc. Congrats, Hillary, you've paved the way for the Democratic nominee, be it you or Obama, to be scandalized from here to Kingdom come. And to think that any voter would choose you because they think you can handle the dirt better than Obama is, I think and hope, ridiculous.

Posted by: bfieldk | March 4, 2008 4:45 PM | Report abuse

There were 13,417 military deaths under 8 years of Clinton vs 9,016 under 7 years of Bush. Hillary has a proven record as arguably the most divisive figure in America. Now she wants to lie and cheat so the Clintons can continue to profit from corporations, the American people and Dubai.

Posted by: Justin | March 4, 2008 4:46 PM | Report abuse

If you truly want to disenfranchise women, go for an Obama/Richardson ticket. All McCain would have to do is put a female VP on his ticket, and the good old boys of the Democratic party can kiss the election good bye. A senator who won when his opponent withdrew and a state governor would be an incredibly weak ticket, even with Richardson's previous service in the Clinton cabinet and elsewhere. At 3AM, when Hillary gets that call, she can always roll over and talk to Bill who's been there done that .. truthfully though, we all know she doesn't need Bill to make a decision. When he was running for president, everyone accused Hillary of being the brains behind his efforts. Now people say's she's not as smart? I just really don't understand our media..are they just afraid of a woman president? I sure wouldn't want Obama rolling over to someone who's not proud of her country to decide how to handle a crisis.

Posted by: HealthcareforAll | March 4, 2008 4:47 PM | Report abuse

Peter, Woonsocket RI Thanks for the link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou4JnWQsxKw

Party loyalty be damned. Clinton has no shame. By using tactics such as these, I would really be hard pressed to vote for her over McCain. After all, he does have "a lifetime of experience".

Posted by: Absolute_0-K | March 4, 2008 4:49 PM | Report abuse

For the good of which party?

--- Even before the votes are counted in Texas and Ohio, we are hearing new calls for Senator Clinton to "step aside," to allow the Democratic party to unite behind the wave of popular support for Senator Obama. I must strongly disagree. Hillary Clinton should resist this pressure and fight on to the convention.

Why do I say this? I'm male, white, and very much a liberal Democrat. To most political analysts that means I should be a Obama supporter. But I'm not, because I don't believe that Sen. Obama really has the popular support of the Democratic Party. The votes just aren't there!

Obama has waged a brilliant caucus strategy, but a political caucus is the ultimate smoke filled room. No secret ballot, deals cut to "gang up" on particular candidates, a caucus is easily manipulated by the candidate who can hire the most busses, packed with noisy supporters.

If you look just at the delegates won in actual primaries, so far, Hilary has 857 delegates to Obama's 835.

Obama has built his "momentum" by using an organizational advantage, primarily based on college students, to overwhelm the caucuses and using his charismatic speaking ability to draw independent and Republican voters to vote in the many open Democratic primaries.

For primary voters that actually went into a voting booth and cast a secret ballot, Obama leads Clinton only in states with open primaries. In primaries restricted to registered Democrats, Clinton leads Obama, 3,045,826 to 2,661,188.

Open primaries are designed to build voter excitement and participation, but you can't depend on the loyalty of the new voters drawn to them. This is why we have political conventions and super delegates.

Most super delegates are elected officials who have won their office in a general election. Their job is to listen to the party rank and file and balance the needs of the party against the claims of the competing candidates. In America we don't choose our leaders by acclamation, at mass rallies, no matter how much fun that might be.

Neither Clinton nor Obama can win the nomination outright before the convention. It is a disservice to Democrats everywhere for anyone to call for an end to this race before the convention. The party will have enough time to unite after the convention.

Democrats should remember that the last anti-war candidate, with wild youth support, put forward by the party, ran in 1972. The 2008 election will be a classic Republican "fear campaign" , national security "defenders" against the "cut and run" Democrats. Which party will really gain if Democrats decide to put forward their most liberal candidate?

I'm a liberal Democrat, but most of all I want a Democrat in the White House. That candidate should be selected at the convention, after all of the primaries.

Posted by: Mark D. Heckendorn | March 4, 2008 4:49 PM | Report abuse

Hillary has hardly been vetted. She is keeping her White House experience phone records under lock and key and has yet to release her income tax statements. We Do know she is polarizing, took more special interest money than any other other candidate and is very bad for America. I really question the motives of her supporters.

Posted by: Martha | March 4, 2008 4:51 PM | Report abuse

It is funny that Obama supporters are so scared the truth will come out that he has no ideas of his own that they badly want Hillary to quit the race even though Obama is nowhere near the number of delegates needed to win the nomination.

Posted by: atomic | March 4, 2008 4:51 PM | Report abuse

From an outsiders point of view we can only look on in dismay as the ignorant americans again are so easily converted to mindless zombies blindly following a smooth talking huckster with little credentials to his name(Obama).Hillary should fight to the end for the sake of you americans as you need to be saved from yourselves. You have proven that you easily cowtow to the flavour of the moment be it fear mongering(Bush) or hope mongering (Obama). Get real people, grow up,use a little bit of intellect and face up to the hard realities of life. Do you want a fabricated political yes man who is going to lead you down the garden path and tell you everything will be wonderful even though it wont. Or a tough, experienced real politician who has battled and is willing to keep on battling. I know who I would want to run the show. Go Hillary.

Posted by: dw(concerned canadian) | March 4, 2008 4:52 PM | Report abuse

Howard Dean, Harry Reid and top echelon will have to spell it out to the woman after today. She is out to destroy the party's chances to win this fall. The woman's behavior is indicative of a immaturity, and it reinforces the impression that a wife of a political man has no place in national politics. The woman has earned nothing other than putting up with her trashy husband. The woman wants to poison Barack's chance this fall. The woman thinks she can run in 2012. Even if she cannot she can express her cattiness by destroying our party this year.

Posted by: sperrico | March 4, 2008 4:53 PM | Report abuse

Obama has experience. Yes, he was a state senator from Chicago since 1996, but this state has manufacturing, agriculture, finance, etc.

Lot's of executives are vetted in the machine and become CEOs in their 40s. He's not a baby. Wasn't Hillary about his age when Bill first became president?

What are people afraid of in him? He has experience.

No one in this race has a Perfect resume. McCain is no angel (although a hero) and the McCain of 8 years ago was more compelling.

Posted by: Maria | March 4, 2008 4:55 PM | Report abuse

Rev JD: OK. I will give it to Obama that he has sponsored one bill that passed, sponsored along with a Republican. Will you grant that this was a completely UNCONTROVERSIAL bill that EASILY got support from both sides of the aisle?

Do you think nationalizing health care will go smoothly based on this and his happy speeches? I would expect Republicans to fight tooth-and-nail on this one, and I don't see them being swayed by a good chorus of kumbaya. I don't think any of them will faint at the sight of him.

Posted by: Carolyn | March 4, 2008 4:57 PM | Report abuse

Shorter Dana Milbank: B*tch!!!1!1!!!

Posted by: david | March 4, 2008 4:58 PM | Report abuse

Posted by: Carolyn

"So did almost half the country, and countless other countries around the world. I thought from the beginning that Bush hadn't made a credible case, that they were manipulating Powell with the yellowcake uranium stuff, etc., etc."


So the question remains why did Senator Clinton vote to authorize Bush's War? She didn't even bother to read the National Intelligence Estimate that was made available to her before she jumped on the bandwagon. Also The fact remains that she voted against the Levin Amendment which was a good sensible alternative to giving Bush a blank check which still upheld the national security interests of the United States. Her claim that the Levin Admendment would have let the U.N. tie the hands of the U.S. doesn't quite hold water. Here is what Senator Chafee had to say on the subject of U.N. "interference"

quote:
Senator Levin wrote an amendment that was nimble: it affirmed that Congress would stand at the ready to reconsider the use of force if, in the judgment of the president, a United Nations resolution was not "promptly adopted" or enforced. Ceding no rights or sovereignty to an international body, the amendment explicitly avowed America's right to defend itself if threatened....
The Senate had the opportunity to support a more deliberate, multilateral approach, one that still would have empowered the United States to respond to any imminent threat posed by Saddam Hussein. We must not sidestep the fact that a sensible alternative did exist, but it was rejected. Candidates -- Democrat and Republican -- should be called to account for their vote on the Levin amendment....
unquote:

Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/01/opinion/01chafee.html

There is also the question of whether or not the Iraq War Resolution was even Constitutional.

Clinton wants to make the case for "35 years of experience". After all of that time, and access to intelligence reports shouldn't she have known better than the rest of us?

Posted by: Anonymous | March 4, 2008 4:58 PM | Report abuse

"Hillary will destroy the Democratic Party," Obama supporters say. That sounds like a scare tactic to me. Politics of fear?

Political parties serve people. People shouldn't serve the parties. The point is to get the best nominee.

Neither Hillary nor Obama are causing any rifts that weren't already there. And they will show up in the general election. So let's get 'em out now. I can't think of any surer way to split the Dems than to have supporters of one candidate or the other to think their candidate didn't get a fair shot to the end.

If a candidate can't handle criticism now, she/he SURELY won't be able to handle it against McCain.

Posted by: david watching | March 4, 2008 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Whew dw(concerned canadian)....keep all that venom in and for Canada.

Posted by: Rev JD | March 4, 2008 4:59 PM | Report abuse

Stop the Clinton's Now!!!!

Posted by: Wayne | March 4, 2008 5:00 PM | Report abuse

"Howard Dean, Harry Reid and top echelon will have to spell it out to the woman after today."

I cringe at the idea that these two should tell all Democrats who their nominee should be. Dean??? Reid??? You can't be serious.

Posted by: Carolyn | March 4, 2008 5:00 PM | Report abuse

No one faints. For goodness sake. Seriously.

Mark did a nice job of vetting the political process. Frankly, the longer this campaign goes on, the more attention democrats get - for free, but McCain also steers clear of controversy. Which is better?

Calls to step down would be legitimate if Obama had lost 11 states in a row. Why is is not now?

Posted by: Obama '08 | March 4, 2008 5:01 PM | Report abuse

A slight adjustment to the rules - e.g. 'looser wins' might do the trick.

Posted by: rodolfo | March 4, 2008 5:05 PM | Report abuse

I don't know why she voted the way she did on Iraq. I just think it's easy for people with NO RESPONSIBILITY in a major decision to sit back and say what should be done, including me and Senator Obama! I can't say what I would have done in her position - I wasn't in her position. Obama thinks he can say definitively what he would have voted. The one thing we know is that he shies away from a tough vote here or there by voting "present". Forgive me if I do not take his word on what he would have done in her shoes.

Posted by: Carolyn | March 4, 2008 5:06 PM | Report abuse

The whole campaign is basically about how American men can't handle a powerful woman like Hillary. That's the main issue in this campaign, and it's the only reason Hillary has been challenged credibly -- men don't like her.

The era of the American patriarchy is alive and well, due to the almost bloc-like solidarity of men against Hillary, and the gaggle of patriarchy-enabling women who are -- as an article in the Post stated over the weekend -- simply stupid.

If Hillary doesn't win, there is no way I am voting for Obama, the choice of the American patriarchy. I'll just find something better to do with my time on that Tuesday in early November than participate in a process that is jury-rigged to prevent the political ascendency of women.

Posted by: Jennifer | March 4, 2008 5:08 PM | Report abuse

I started out as not caring whether Clinton or Obama would win the nomination. Now I'm for Obama.

I base my decision on the recent "experience" of how he is running his campaign. He anticpated and identified the mood of the nation with the change message (which Hillary copied). He's expanded the party's base with new voters. He's raised money online with thousands, bettering the Dean model and bettering the Clinton method of reliance on big donors. He has stayed postive. His message is consistent.

On the other hand, Hillary has gone to the mud and as a consequence the party has been weakened. She attempted to go around the rules with Florida and Michigan. And her kitchen sink approach shows a desperation that isn't pretty. Can you imagine her using such a garbled format in running the government...if it doesn't work, throw something else at it! That's the kind of ill prepared problem solving we can look forward to? About the only positive I can think of is that she is tenacious, but so is George Bush.

Posted by: Ceeee | March 4, 2008 5:09 PM | Report abuse

Let me break this to you all: NONE of the candidates has any relevant experience. None of them has been President or VP or on the Cabinet. None of them has run a state. In this race, "experience" is just another word for "old". And old doesn't matter.

JFK didn't have any experience either and things turned out OK with him.

Also, does Hillary PAY people to blog? Because I see the same words over and over, like "teleprompter". It's like these people can't think for themselves. I don't know how many times I've seen the trope "compared to Obama supporters, Clinton supporters ..." And it is clear Clinton is running an openly sexist campaign. Her site features an ad with only women. Can you imagine if Obama ran an ad with only blacks? And, of course, while running this naked appeal to gender pride, Clinton supporters claim Obama's running a racist campaign. That kind of shamelessness is characteristic of the Clintons.

Posted by: RL | March 4, 2008 5:09 PM | Report abuse

Carolyn, I think that the bill was one that was for the people. Quite often, the American electorate does not pay attention to the true inner-workings of Washington and particularly where money is being spent. Yes, it was easier for a politician to support.

Yes, all sides will come after Obama, and no they are not going to be nice about it.

However, I don't understand why America is not talking about character as a reason to vote for a person. The reason that McCain will be a formidable candidate is because he has character and no one doubts that. People for the most part, absent a smoking gun, believe that about Obama too; perhaps that is why he has the support from various groups.

I don't want politics as usual,and I hope and pray that we won't have that after November 2008.

Posted by: Rev JD | March 4, 2008 5:10 PM | Report abuse

If Hillary wins a few points today, it will be the greatest victory since Okinawa, but if she loses, it will be faulty voting machines and hanging chads like Al Gore.

Posted by: bodo | March 4, 2008 5:12 PM | Report abuse

"No one faints. For goodness sake. Seriously."

Really?? Go to youtube and type in "Obama fainting" and see what you get. LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwzVLP2NcqI&feature=related

Posted by: Anonymous | March 4, 2008 5:12 PM | Report abuse

Do we really want a nominee that is associated with someone who is right now in court standing trial on corruption charges.
Whether Barack supporters want to talk about it or not, there is the fact that Barack was snorting cocaine when he was younger.
Is this what we want in a President?
Barack won't stand a chance once the GOP gets hold of him..you can trust me on that one..They successfully persecuted a Viet-Nam veteran so Barack wouldn't be that differcult to tear apart.
Vote Hillary in 08 for the Democrats best chance in November.

Posted by: man4hillary | March 4, 2008 5:15 PM | Report abuse

Truth hurts doesn't it Rev JD

Posted by: dw(concerned canadian) | March 4, 2008 5:18 PM | Report abuse

Beware of the boomarang effect HilGals. If McCAin wins I will be very comfortable when he appoints strict constructionists to the Supreme Court. It's about time we overturn rampant abortion and gender equity. Alito, Scallia and Thomas are great for putting the little people in their place, and women once again can be like Mrs. Cleaver and Harriet Nelson respecting and obeying their husbands. Who needs Obama? Bring on the neo-tons for another eight years. Gals need to be brought under control once again. Thank to Hillary we're on our way!

Posted by: sperrico | March 4, 2008 5:18 PM | Report abuse

Rev JD - "I don't want politics as usual,and I hope and pray that we won't have that after November 2008."

I can totally understand that. I just think you are just as likely to have politics-as-usual with Obama as Clinton, unless he comes to Washington with a magic wand. A little reality needs to set in. Hope is great, but it alone doesn't change the world.

He has one easy bill to show for his actual ability to bring people together. That's just not proof for me, unfortunately.

I don't think Obama has ascended as far as he has as quickly as he has in US politics without using strategies and tools that would be considered politics-as-usual. Do you?

Posted by: Carolyn | March 4, 2008 5:19 PM | Report abuse

Hillary has basically crossed a line in saying the she and McCain have a lifetime of experience while Barack has none. Yeah...baby Barack born yesterday.

She might as well join the Republican Party. Barack has never compared himself to McCain and hung Hillary out as being worse than him on issues. Weak and damaging tactics...she should campaign for McCain in the fall.

Posted by: Redline | March 4, 2008 5:19 PM | Report abuse

Be patient, friends. The winner won't be decided until after Pennsylvania, maybe not until the convention.

http://timelikethis.blogspot.com/

Posted by: Trevor Wynne | March 4, 2008 5:20 PM | Report abuse

Mark D. Heckendorn, your argument to simply discount caucuses is convoluted especially when you take into account your support of a convention broked nomination. *That* would be the ultimate smokey backroom deal which could potentially disenfrancise a large portion of the electorate. I would have no problem with the campaign going to the convention except Hillary Clinton has gone very negative to the point where she is doing the GOPs work for it. That is one of the reasons why she has been losing some superdelegates lately. It is no coincidence that Senators Kennedy and Dodd endorsed Sen. Obama when they did.

Posted by: Absolute_0-K | March 4, 2008 5:20 PM | Report abuse

I've read many political blogs like this one and am amazed at the range of responses. Those who support HRC are adopting the scorched earth tactics of 20th century politics while Barack's disciples extort his unification speeches like he walks on water. In the middle there is a wide rift forming as each side refuses to acquiesce to the other. It's the main reason HRC should bow out if she loses either OH or TX.

But my $.02: HRC and her establishment bring a load of baggage. I was one (of many) that found her and her husband's conduct in the WH completely unbecoming to a point where the French actually found it charming. Their scandals, indiscretions, and "speak softly and carry a smaller stick" foreign policy (not to mention impeachment) were embarrassing. You can vote with your pocketbook but the President should be more than about how much money you make (or how much the government gives you). It should be about respect, leadership, and vision.

Barrack has demonstrated a phenomenon of youth actually showing interest in politics. He provides a message of change and hope and unity I know HRC only dreams she could provide. But her histroy/baggage will prevent any message of change since she's been in the political mainstream for "35 years." Even if she wins both OH and TX Obama has managed to erase double-digit leads, showing he's still winning voters (not just Dems).

Still, with stagflation catching us between a rock and a hard place, I still find it interesting that Bush is to blame for all our woes. But don't we have a democratically controlled Congress? I hope that all these so-called intelligent people study a little concept called economics and understand both Barrack and HRC's promises mean (and how they will pay for them). These entitlements will do nothing but expand the deficit while increasing a socialistic society where it's the government's responsibility for everyone cradle-to-grave.

Finally, our country was founded on conservative principles. Without these principles, we cease to be a nation of free people. Some of the candidates platform policies undermine the concept of freedom of decision when people are looking for handouts and entitlement programs. I agree there are people that truly need help throughout the world but there are many, many organizations designed to do just that. If you want to see what socialism gets you, live in Europe or Canada for a while, pay their exorbitant taxes, and let me know how it was when you get back.

With approval ratings at an all time low for the elected government, it's easy to campaign on promises of "I'm NOT going to be like that guy." But the reality of it is the vortex of the Beltway - where it's give-and-take - will always suck the life out of change.

Enjoy the "political process" as you can actually see how each candidate will run their administration by the way they run their campaign.

Anti-Clinton in '08

Posted by: Curious George | March 4, 2008 5:23 PM | Report abuse

Funny how she thinks it's civil as she slings mud.

Posted by: michael4 | March 4, 2008 5:23 PM | Report abuse

Absolute_0-K: I would expect caucuses to continue to become less and less common, especially with the spotlight they've received this year. It's a ridiculous way to try to determine what voters really want. How many people can spend hours or a whole day to cast their vote? Just look at the participation level compared with a primary. It's ridiculous.

Posted by: Carolyn | March 4, 2008 5:24 PM | Report abuse

dw(concerned canadian)....truth is relative, and I do not subscribe to a truth that has to demonize another individual in order to make a point.
You and I will just agree to disagree.

Posted by: Rev JD | March 4, 2008 5:25 PM | Report abuse

Just a few hours to find out if Hillary can post big wins across the board or she 's done for good this time.

Posted by: Redline | March 4, 2008 5:28 PM | Report abuse

Rev JD - I don't think it's demonizing Obama to say lets take as a hard a look at him as we have at Clinton.

I've said so many times that if he had waited and worked in the senate for a few more years to DELIVER the kind of change he now only TALKS about, I would have been a HUGE supporter of his. Truth be told, I'm really disappointed. When I saw him speak for the first time at the convention a few years ago, I thought "Wow - he will be a GREAT politician - I hope there's substance there, too!!" I never got to find out, which saddens me.

Posted by: Carolyn | March 4, 2008 5:29 PM | Report abuse

Word on the street is that there is about to be a rush of superdelegates to Obama come tomorrow. Hillary camp remains confident that they will stem the tied. Stay tuned?

Posted by: Redline | March 4, 2008 5:32 PM | Report abuse

Not surprised Kate Snow "passed on the news of the poll" to Clinton, in that ABC News has been in the tank for Hillary for the past week. It's really gotten ridiculous.

Oh, yeah, about that poll...a whole 627 people polled. I guess "the people" have spoken.

ABC should air the video clip of Bill Clinton from 2004 that is currently making the rounds:

Bill ~ "Now, one of Clintons' laws of politics is this: If one candidate's trying to scare you and the other one's trying to get you to think, if one candidate's appealing to your fears and the other one's appealing to your hopes, you better vote for the person who wants you to think and hope."

Why doesn't Kate Snow pass on the news to Hillary that apparently Bill Clinton is covertly supporting Obama?

Posted by: Anonymous | March 4, 2008 5:33 PM | Report abuse

When this campaign started, I was leaning toward Hillary Clinton. Hearing Barack Obama and learning more about the issues, I have decided to vote for Obama; but, I thought, if he wasn't the nominee, I would still vote for Clinton. After the dirty politics of this last week, I will not vote for Clinton. I'm a 52-year-old white republican woman (shocked that I'm going to vote for a democrat); there's no way I can vote for McCain because of the way he's tied himself to Bush and his failed policies (yes, I am sorry to say that I voted for Bush). If Obama doesn't get the nomination, I'll be staying home in November.

Posted by: Sue | March 4, 2008 5:33 PM | Report abuse

Carolyn, I see it as more than that. If I am going to look at the totality of it all, I am going to understand the person, his or her voting record, what they believe as persons of faith and so on.

I applaude John McCain because he served this country to his peril and mental health.

I applaud Obama because I understand how hard it is to be a grassroots community organizer. You get paid diddly and you usually get no recognition. Let me tell you, its difficult to get a latino and a black man in a room and try to hash out employment and discrimiation issues, and help them to see the other's side.

I applaud Hillary for trying to tackle health care, when it was quite an unpopular thing to do.

If I were an undecided Democratic voter, Hillary would have lost my vote yesterday when she threw a fellow democrat under the bus, in favor of the repulican candidate.

That stated....I want a president who keeps his or her chin up when situations go awry.

Character is who you are when no one else is around. It is hard to hide true character.

God Bless.

Posted by: Rev JD | March 4, 2008 5:34 PM | Report abuse

Julia- pls. read my comment again, I am not a Hillary supporter.
Carolyn-
1st sorry I spelled your name wrong in my previous post.
2nd we elect politicians to make those choices and take responsibity for their votes. No one expects a human to be perfect, if you make a mistake own it.
He wasn't in the senate, so what. He spoke his mind and was right about everything. I don't want to keep beating dead horse, so i'll stop there.
Everyone makes mistakes, its all about what you do after the fact that matters most.

Posted by: priceisright | March 4, 2008 5:39 PM | Report abuse

democratic are not very smart

they let a few so called "activist" control the primary

who going to the "caucus", those "hard core" leftest.

in general election, when winner take all the big states, final results will tilt to all the big states where Hillary Won. who cares about North Dakota, where Demos are few than 1000.

Again, demos will be like wounded animal.

time to fire the "caucus", and use the general election formula to get the candidate for November.

we need to same formula to win back the white house

those leftest are poison

Posted by: ruleitang | March 4, 2008 5:41 PM | Report abuse

So, Ohio is the important place, eh? Well, God help us all. The state was in the economic dumps back in 2004, and its voters helped to re-elect Bush (or at least failed to protest when their votes were stolen, as some charged.) Now, the state's economy is even worse off, and Ohioans are upset at NAFTA. But they are ready to vote for the wife of the guy who pushed the agreement through! As a native of Michigan, I learned long ago not to expect much from the nutters to our south. They get what they deserve.

Posted by: Lucky Lakeshore | March 4, 2008 5:41 PM | Report abuse

Jennifer and Carolyn, Please please please do not vote for Obama. Your stale candidate cannot win and she has haters like you blogging inconsitencies to sell exactly who? Women are voting for Obama maybe not you hating hags but others who can look past his gender and see his platform...you know the one that Hillary cannot seem to win on...at least the last 11 times

Posted by: Hoping for a Hillary Loss | March 4, 2008 5:48 PM | Report abuse

who knows. since we are not allowed to check identities of voters, there might be enough wetbacks voting to carry Texas for Billary. Bill Clinton got NAFTA passed. You'd think there would be enough unemployed voters in Ohio to make sure no Clinton could ever be President again.

Posted by: texascorvette | March 4, 2008 5:58 PM | Report abuse

Remeber it's all about to pan out in just a few hours...much of the hot air will be released...the voters of these states will set the tone for the next week...is this her last stand? Will the kitchen sink strategy work?

Posted by: Redline | March 4, 2008 6:01 PM | Report abuse

"A win is a win," says Hillary Clinton.

"Spin is spin," says Mel

From Rovian/Clintonian dirty tricks to play all sorts of cards and canards (race, gender, "I am woman . . . ", experience (at what, no one can honestly say), misty eyes, combative, mocking, can't this person see that the American public is done with such foolishness and division? No, because HRC will say and do anything and everything to win. Period!

Posted by: Mel | March 4, 2008 6:03 PM | Report abuse

There is no reason why Hillary should drop out of the race. The comparisons made to Romney, Huckabee, etc...are ridiculous. They were hundreds of delegates behind when they dropped out.

Hillary still has almost half of the democratic party behind her candidacy, and she is only 100 or so pledged delegates behind. Let's not forget that Hillary has won the largest, most populous state primaries so far. While Barack's impressive string of wins sway momentum towards his campaign, he is not necessarily favored by more democrats. Not to mention that half of the states' primaries he won will be irrelevant in the general election because those states will all go republican.

The swing states to watch are the same ones every year: Ohio and Florida. So far, that's been Clinton Country. If Obama can't win democrats in Ohio and Florida, I'm not so sure why we should be so eager to push Hillary out of the race.

Obama supporters claim that Hillary wont do what's best for the party. But if you actually look at the numbers and beyond the rhetoric, it's still unclear which candidate is best for the democratic party in a general election.

Posted by: A Hillary-Obama and/or Obama-Hillary supporter | March 4, 2008 6:03 PM | Report abuse

wetbacks? Lame guy...real lame. Wrong blog.

Posted by: Redline | March 4, 2008 6:04 PM | Report abuse

I still want to know what Obama posed a couple of days ago, exactly what 35 years of experience did Hillary Clinton achieve on foreign policy? Being a first lady doesn't make you an expert on any kind of foreign policy or being experienced at picking up the red phone at 3:00 am in a crisis. A phone ironically she wouldn't answer anyway, that's what your White House Chief of Staff is there for.

Secondly, since she has all this experience we constantly get bombarded with wasn't it the same Hillary Clinton who also took a photograph with the same Rezko character some many years back but claims she doesn't know him. The same Hillary Clinton who was given the duty to establish Universal Healthcare on behalf of our nation only for it to fall flat because she alienated members of her own party when trying to get it passed. The same Hillary who touted NAFTA and championed it only to now suggest she didn't. The same Hillary Clinton who voted for the IRAQ war only to now say she didn't fully vote for it or understand the intelligence reports. And the same Hillary Clinton who still hasn't come clean about the Whitewater Scandal, the mysterious death and dealings with Vincent Foster, and still is the only candidate who hasn't publicly released her taxes. And this is a person you think is experienced, trustworthy and well judged enough to lead America out of this mess George Bush has buried us in?

Posted by: 2pacolypse | March 4, 2008 6:08 PM | Report abuse

I for one agree with the MSM that said just after Super Tuesday that if she didn't win Ohio and Texas by 20 points, she'd be toast.

...

Well?

At some point you have to stop throwing slime and get out of the muck - now would be a good time, Sen Clinton.

Posted by: Will in Seattle | March 4, 2008 6:09 PM | Report abuse

Every one has an opinion and they have a right to it, but the fact is America..American men and women! Iraqi men women and Children have died..Lost their lives in a war that now Men and Women in America will lose their homes, lost their jobs, and will lose their minds when IRAN and the Puppet Government of IRAQ along with CHINA and RUSSIA and THE SOUTH AMERICAN CRONIES all get together and bring America to her knees. I WISH OBAMA THE BEST HOWEVER, WHY SHOULD AGAIN THE IN THE MOST TROUBLED TIME THAT THE WHITE RACE AGENDA HAS CREATED FOR MILLENEUM BE PLACED ON THE BACK OF THE ORIGINAL MAN OF THIS PLANET AND UNIVERSE!!!!

TAKE HEED AMERICA, OUR DAY OF RECOGNING IS APPROACHING FAST

Posted by: gmoneytubb | March 4, 2008 6:09 PM | Report abuse

and the best 3 am comic i saw was this one:

http://www.phdcomics.com/comics.php

seriously, now that is a great take on the silliness of 3 am phone calls ...

Posted by: Will in Seattle | March 4, 2008 6:12 PM | Report abuse

Gee. I guess I just don't want Bush-lite with a closetful of colorful pants suits, voice from hell, and Bill Clinton as advisor-in-chief. Probably making a big mistake, but that combo just doesn't say "progressive" or "respected" or "Democrat" OR "democrat" to this voter.

Posted by: PW | March 4, 2008 6:18 PM | Report abuse

There is no reason why Hillary should drop out of the race. The comparisons made to Romney, Huckabee, etc...are ridiculous. They were hundreds of delegates behind when they dropped out.

Hillary still has almost half of the democratic party behind her candidacy, and she is only 100 or so pledged delegates behind. Let's not forget that Hillary has won the largest, most populous state primaries so far. While Barack's impressive string of wins sway momentum towards his campaign, he is not necessarily favored by more democrats. Not to mention that half of the states' primaries he won will be irrelevant in the general election because those states will all go republican.

The swing states to watch are the same ones every year: Ohio and Florida. So far, that's been Clinton Country. If Obama can't win democrats in Ohio and Florida, I'm not so sure why we should be so eager to push Hillary out of the race.

Obama supporters claim that Hillary wont do what's best for the party. But if you actually look at the numbers and beyond the rhetoric, it's still unclear which candidate is best for the democratic party in a general election.

Posted by: A Hillary-Obama and/or Obama-Hillary supporter | March 4, 2008 6:21 PM | Report abuse

I'm in Oregon and our primary isn't until May 20.

I'll vote for Hillary Clinton then or in November, whether she is on the ballot or not.

Posted by: Christine | March 4, 2008 6:24 PM | Report abuse

It is very interesting that the folks who support Obama and claim that he is a unifying force are the most virulent and hostile towards Clinton. No one should be niave enough to think that if Obama was in Clinton's position he would not be doing the same thing -- trying to exploit weaknesses to turn the tide. Moreover, the fact is that he does have some questions to answer to convince the American public that he is qualified and he has some shadows in his past that everyone ignores, including the press. We do need answers to some of those questions in order to cast a vote to put him in the most powerful position in the land. This country is in real trouble and promises of change with no substance are not a convincing basis for me to vote for Obama. Hilary, you have my vote.

Posted by: demogal | March 4, 2008 6:26 PM | Report abuse

Not old - just the most experienced in being young.

No liar - just honestly exploring all facets of truth.

Not hopeless - just actively fighting the dream of a new America.


Posted by: rodolfo | March 4, 2008 6:27 PM | Report abuse

My advise to Democrats. Do not just give your vote to the one who has been talking about "hope and change." Sen. Obama has demonstrated that he needs to mature politically. There are two facts I can mention to you regarding Sen. Obama.

First, he stated that he would call the President of Mexico and the President of Canada to discuss NAFTA. For you information, Canada dose not have a President, but a Prime Minister.

Second, he delcared that NAFTA has shifted American jobs to overseas. Let's remind Sen. Obama that Mexico and Canada are not overseas. Both of these countries have boarders with the United States. It seems to be clear that he is confusing Mexico and Canada with China and India.

Be aware Americans, that Sen. Obama words of "dreams and hopes" will end up being just "dreams and hopes."

Vivaldo Latoche

Posted by: Vivaldo Latoche | March 4, 2008 6:28 PM | Report abuse

My advise to Democrats. Do not just give your vote to the one who has been talking about "hope and change." Sen. Obama has demonstrated that he needs to mature politically. There are two facts I can mention to you regarding Sen. Obama.

First, he stated that he would call the President of Mexico and the President of Canada to discuss NAFTA. For you information, Canada does not have a President, but a Prime Minister.

Second, he delcared that NAFTA has shifted American jobs to overseas. Let's remind Sen. Obama that Mexico and Canada are not overseas. Both of these countries have boarders with the United States. It seems to be clear that he is confusing Mexico and Canada with China and India.

Be aware Americans, that Sen. Obama words of "dreams and hopes" will end up being just "dreams and hopes."

Vivaldo Latoche

Posted by: Vivaldo Latoche | March 4, 2008 6:30 PM | Report abuse

We are a nation at war. That seems to be forgotten.

It's a hard sell for Hillary to say that she is the only one capable of leading this country in a war when she helped in leading the country into that war. Or to paraphrase Obama from the last debate, the one who drives the bus into the ditch can't drive it out. Experience was Cheney and Rumsfeld and Hillary voting along with them!

Posted by: Bubba2008 | March 4, 2008 6:31 PM | Report abuse

everyone's so serious! it's all entertainment. you'll get more with Hillary and the former president first lady man than you would with goodie two shoes barack. voters are too savvy for that show. we want something more complex, and the Clinton's are a reflection of the times.

Posted by: ant | March 4, 2008 6:39 PM | Report abuse

Some (mostly Obama supporters) are saying that Hillary should quit the race because if the Democratic primary goes on, Hillary and Obama will bash and damage each other, while McCain can unite his party from now until November.

But anybody who thinks that McCain is getting a free ride without conservative opposition has not been watching and hearing what right-wingers like Rush and Ann Coulter have been screaming about for the last two weeks. McCain is still defending himself against attacks from within his own party; they support him one day, the next day they hate him.

We really have four political parties in the U.S.: the Ideological Right, the Economic Right, the Economic Left, and the Ideological Left. I think we'd be much better off with a power-sharing multi-party system like some other countries, but I can't see that anytime soon. So for the indefinite future, I think we can count on constant "civil wars" within our two main parties - even after this election.


Posted by: david watching | March 4, 2008 6:40 PM | Report abuse

This MUST end soon. Hillary can't possibly win the nomination, and all she's doing now is trying to help the Republicans destroy Obama. This MUST end.

Posted by: Mark F | March 4, 2008 6:42 PM | Report abuse

Sounds like Obama on campaign finance....oh, and whether his campaign met with the canadians.

Posted by: Tony | March 4, 2008 6:48 PM | Report abuse

This Obama hysteria will end, either now or in a year or two, after we've seen how bad a President Obama will be.

People complain about a President Bush, but forget that Bush was elected by the Americans themselves.

Posted by: Silly Yankies | March 4, 2008 6:54 PM | Report abuse

Hillary Clinton is the most harmful democratic primary candidate since Hubert Humphrey killed hope in 1968. The Democratic party has suffered ever since and it helped elect Nixon. If she had the slightest regard for the party, for electing a true change agent, she would exit gracefully and let Obama take it from here. She isnt liked in more than half the states, and if she runs, she will not carry Ohio, let alone Texas.

Posted by: Paul Nolan | March 4, 2008 6:55 PM | Report abuse

Ah, that Milbank - what a card.

Posted by: Gary E. Masters | March 4, 2008 6:58 PM | Report abuse

Well, I did talk to some Texas voters.

Posted by: Gary E. Masters | March 4, 2008 7:00 PM | Report abuse

CAVUTO: But you like Bill Clinton?

GREENSPAN: I thought Bill Clinton was the best Republican president we've had in a while.

CAVUTO: You put him up there with Richard Nixon in terms of brilliance, right?

GREENSPAN: Both of them had all sorts of problems ...

Posted by: Alan Greenspan Interview | March 4, 2008 7:01 PM | Report abuse

I'm voting today in Texas, and I'm still undecided about which candidate to choose. I have to say that all of you who are saying you'll vote Republican in November if your chosen candidate doesn't win absolutely disgust me. I can't believe that you would be so childish that you'd vote for 4 more years of Republican farce rather than have a Democrat in office. You should be ashamed of yourselves. The rhetoric between Hillary and Obama supporters has gotten out of hand, and just like in elections past, it appears the Democratic Party is going to implode and hand victory to the Republicans yet again. Bravo! I certainly hope you're proud of yourselves.

Posted by: Jed | March 4, 2008 7:04 PM | Report abuse

Hillary Clinton = Hubert Humphrey trying to steal the nomination; southern democratic wing of Carter and Clinton that lost the Democratic congress and has do nothing unprincipled democrats holding seats now.

Barack Obama = JFK, RFK, TK side of the party

John McCain = Nixon wing of the GOP someone who will wage war for years if Hillary gets the nomination and loses Ohio and Florida and the election.

The Press -- A bunch of slobs who dont care what the people get as long as they get to feed on a carcas. Witness they destroyed Gore, helped Bush until he was an utter failure, and now help Hillary via the ultimate snotty elitist show SNL.

Posted by: Paul Nolan | March 4, 2008 7:05 PM | Report abuse

"I'm voting today in Texas, and I'm still undecided about which candidate to choose. I have to say that all of you who are saying you'll vote Republican in November if your chosen candidate doesn't win absolutely disgust me."

I really don't understand how someone can still be undecided at this point.

I have two young children, and when I look at them I think about their safety above all else. While I thought I would NEVER vote Republican because of social issues (I am pro choice and pro gay rights), I cannot help but feel that a vote for Obama would be irresponsible. He is completely untested, and I don't trust him one bit.

While I know she cannot run on this in a Democratic primary (sadly), I believe Clinton would be more of a hawk on defense. Without her in the race, I feel my only choice is either McCain or not to vote at all, which I would find very difficult. I feel it is a right and responsibility to vote and have in every election snce I was eligible (for a Democrat, by the way, every time).

I am so disappointed that Americans appear more interested in stupid things like who they'd rather have a beer with (GWB) or who gives the best rallies (Obama). It doesn't seem like people are taking this seriously.

Posted by: Carolyn | March 4, 2008 7:34 PM | Report abuse

Jennifer-

You're absolutely right when you point out the sexism that has characterized discussion of the Clinton campaign--it's clear in the comments made here, where a presumably enlighted WaPo readership, emboldened by anonymity, shows its true colors.

But does supporting Obama necessarily make me, a white male, sexist? To my mind, there are good reasons for preferring Obama over Clinton. He was right about the war, she's too close to the Democratic monied interests, and her announced intention to fight for seating the Florida and Michigan delegations unfairly flouts the rules.

Posted by: David Expat | March 4, 2008 7:40 PM | Report abuse

"I do hope the adult wing of the Democratic party steps up to the plate tomorrow."

Agreed.

"The rhetoric between Hillary and Obama supporters has gotten out of hand, and just like in elections past"

So far I don't see Obama going negative. He's responded to her attacks, but that's all.

"it appears the Democratic Party is going to implode and hand victory to the Republicans yet again."

I don't see that, but certainly it doesn't help that Republicans simply recycle Hillary's attacks the next day.

Did you folks see her quote that McCain and her were the experienced candidates? Never thought I'd live to see the day that a Democratic candidate would praise the Republican nominee as superior to the democrat.

I mean just what will she say when Obama sews up the election? What can she possibly say? I didn't mean it? Ooops?

Time for the adults to step in and tell her to go her room. Unlike the New York Senate seat, it doesn't come handed to you on a silver platter.

Posted by: Alex3 | March 4, 2008 7:53 PM | Report abuse

"Well, glad to see the biases of the Washington Post so proudly displayed!"

You missed Milbank's article of yesterday.

Posted by: Alex3 | March 4, 2008 7:55 PM | Report abuse

My first choice would have been Joe Biden, but when it got down to Hillary and Obama after New Hampshire, it was a coin flip. However, Hillary paniced and went negative and Obama has kept his cool. Since then, she has veered all over the road being alternately complimentary and nasty and everything in between. It seems to me that she stands for what hewr advisors tell her to stand for and they can't agree among themselves.

When I saw the 3 am commercial, my first thought was "where is she going to find a focus group at 3 am?" and my second thought was "depends on which Hillary answers the phone".

What we need is a statesman. In early debates, Hillary appeared very statesmanlike, but that has fallen away as the pressure has mounted. Obama has impressed me with his even and consistent temperament. In addition, I like the way he actually answers questions, sometimes a little rough and halting, but he answers the question instead of deflecting and delivering a canned answer.

As for his skeletons, this is national politics, I don't think there are any saints in the running.

Although Hillary has completely turned me off, I will still vote for her as the lesser of two evils should she win the nomination.

Posted by: joebewildered | March 4, 2008 8:03 PM | Report abuse

I don't Trust OBI, like all in different countrys. he tells truths from a certain point of view. Vote with experince, not with HOLIDAYS BULLIST.

Posted by: jawathegreat | March 4, 2008 8:17 PM | Report abuse

I dont think Hillary will win both Ohio and Texas but if she does i think she should stay in the race for now.

Posted by: sharon | March 4, 2008 8:21 PM | Report abuse

Bill Clinton was apparently on Rush Limbraugh this afternoon. Do we still have any doubts the Clintons have sold out to the War Party?

They are even slimier than I thought.

Posted by: Anonymous | March 4, 2008 8:35 PM | Report abuse

Hillary is old school politics. If the people are not voting for me on the issues and the solutions that I present, then attack the opponent. As an established politician she does what is good for Washington DC, her financial supporters, and fights for what is good for her home state and NOT what is good for the country.

It is time for Hillary (and Bill) to support real change and be willing to join a team for positive change and not push a solo agenda. She demonstrated her closed door stlye in the early '90's with HER health care initiative. It did not pass! Her style has not changed and she has demonstated that she does not have the ability to be a leader for positive change.

Go Obama!

There are more people in the middle of road that will vote for Obama! . . . . . there are many of these same people who will vote against HRC.

Posted by: Seakayaker | March 4, 2008 8:43 PM | Report abuse

Wow, Dana, you used the exact same words as Obama's campaign manager in your headline.

Good thing there's no media bias.

Posted by: Steve in Sac | March 4, 2008 8:45 PM | Report abuse

What happened to the tough questions for Obama? You couldn't wait 24hrs to start
fawning over BHO BigPhony for winning SC, GA, UT, ID, AK, ND, AL, and NE --- states I guarantee you a Dem will never, ever win. Come on wake up, when the republican 527s get through with this guy he'll be a lump of liberal quivering mass. He's the most liberal senator in the US senate of goodness sake.

Posted by: Stu | March 4, 2008 8:58 PM | Report abuse

I've never voted for a Democrat for president. And I've loathed Hillary Clinton since 1991. But if she manages to win the nomination against all these obstacles, then I think I'd have to vote for the woman. Geez, never say die indeed.

Posted by: Endora | March 4, 2008 9:02 PM | Report abuse

As a moderate Republican, I have to wonder at the way the Democratic candidates (and their supporters) attack each other. The nature of the attacks -- going to the other's basic fitness to serve as president, not any particular policy issue -- ensures these attacks will play a prominent role in the general elections. Clinton broadcasts high and low that Obama is obviously unqualified to face difficult national security issues (and redicules half of all Democratic voters for being so deluded as to vote for him!). He (so far pretty mildly) attacks her entire brand of politics as bitterly divisive and incapable of uniting or leading the country forward. To the extent they make their cases, the public will carry this view of the fitness of Obama and Clinton into November. (And Hillary's scathing view of half her own party will be reciprocated by many.)

Posted by: dcrep | March 4, 2008 9:05 PM | Report abuse

*sigh* Hillary is bashing "hope" left and right - and it will dash her own hopes in the end.
Anyone can be president in my book if they meet 3 criteria:
-Intelligence
-Compassion
-Influence
Clinton has the intelligence, but I am not sure about her compassion given her predilection for political calculus (and browbeating child rape victims). Her influence was inherited by way of Bill, whereas Obama created his own in all of 4 years.

Posted by: FLRepublican | March 4, 2008 9:24 PM | Report abuse

Just one question. If Hillary is the nominee, what state will she win in November that John Kerry couldn't win against GWB?

Obama would seem to ofer the Dems a better chance to grab some purple states (like Virginia)

Posted by: Vienna Democrat | March 4, 2008 9:28 PM | Report abuse

Hillary lacks good judgement, just look at her performance as a lawyer:

newsday.com -- Shocking new article on News Day. In her defense of an accused rapist (who certainly deserves a lawyer) Hillary Clinton forcefully impugned the 12-year-old rape victim, implying that the girl often fantasized and sought out "older men". Asked about it now, the rape victim said "It's not true, I never sought out older men - I was raped."

Posted by: Silver | March 4, 2008 9:44 PM | Report abuse

Hillary and the Rat

by Joyce Marcel

Clinton's past has been thoroughly vetted - there's hardly an inch of her that hasn't been under the microscope. But a few weeks ago the The New York Times, Adam Liptak wrote a piece called, "Attorneys at Politics: Would You Hire One to Represent You?" In it, he told a remarkable story that, I believe, illustrates the dangers of Hillary Clinton more than anything I've ever read.

"The first jury trial Mrs. Clinton handled on her own, for instance, concerned the rear end of a rat in a can of pork and beans," Liptak wrote - and if here you're thinking, "Go get 'em, Hillary! Evil corporations are trying to poison us!" you are sadly misled. She represented the corporation, and "she argued that there had been no real harm, as the plaintiff did not actually eat the rat. 'Besides,' she wrote in her autobiography, describing her client's position, 'the rodent parts which had been sterilized might be considered edible in certain parts of the world.'"

So there's your warm, caring, nurturing female political leader for you. Hungry? Eat a rat!

As the professor sings, "Can't a woman learn to use her head?/ Why do they do everything their mothers do?/Why don't they grow up, well, like their father instead?"

Sadly, Professor Higgins, it seems that they do.

Posted by: Silver | March 4, 2008 9:47 PM | Report abuse

Hillary has no sense of shame. I thought GOP is in the business of stealing elections but looks like there are leaders and supporters in our party too, willing to do the same. Press was never biased against Hillary. It's her tactics that is giving her the bad image. Not once did Obama throw any dirty things on her though he could have considering her past. On the other hand, she kept inventing these new things day after day with no end in sight. Who gets to stay in the race with 11 straigth losses? It is time she drops out of the race for the good of the party if she looses either one of the big states OH or TX.

Posted by: JJ | March 4, 2008 9:54 PM | Report abuse

This is the most all-out election ever. History in the making in the Democratic Party, status quo in the Republican camp. The issues, I think, are years old and remain unsolved. We have had leadership issues not experience issues. If change is to be real the issues have to be truly attended to and fixed. I hope our final true worldclass leader emerges out of all this smoke and mirrors.

Posted by: capolitcs | March 4, 2008 9:58 PM | Report abuse

Well, my Ivy league law school educated comrades and I are obviously deaf, dumb, blind and sexist because we'd rather vote for change from a Harvard Law Review Senator than the tired old politics of 1992-2000. Call us jaded, but Clinton hasn't shown us any leadership skills and a remarkable LACK of judgement. I don't respect a man who sleeps around and lies under oath and I don't respect a woman who accepts that.

Posted by: Good riddance | March 4, 2008 9:59 PM | Report abuse

To Crat3...

She's a hate monger. This race is supposed to be about leadership, isn't it? How can a person be "credible" when they effectively state that the vote of 12% of the American population doesn't really matter or count? Haven't we had enough of the race baiting of the past?

Posted by: Ernest | March 4, 2008 10:01 PM | Report abuse

If Hillary is the nominee I will vote for her on an empty stomach holding my nose followed by a dry martini.

Posted by: DUMAS | March 4, 2008 10:03 PM | Report abuse

I am Canadian and ashamed of Canadian Consulate staff and Canadian Prime Minister's involvement in Nafta Gate.

I am not sure who will win Democartic Primary but I am pretty sure that Steven Harper will not be relected as Prime Minister of Canada

Posted by: Sam | March 4, 2008 10:03 PM | Report abuse

If Hillary stays in after tonight, she will be remembered as this election cycle's version of Ralph Nader in 2000.

Time to move on ...

Posted by: martin edwin 'mick' andersen | March 4, 2008 10:07 PM | Report abuse

Someone here wrote that Bill Clinton didn't do anything corrupt or criminal with Ms. Lewinski, as President. This has always puzzled me.

If any other executive had sex with an intern, and was accused of fondling a woman in his office, he would be in serious trouble, if not legally at least with whole groups of people, such as feminists. Why was Bill given a pass on this? Because, in the case of the fondling, he claimed her breasts were too small, so he wouldn't have been tempted?

Posted by: halleluia anyway | March 4, 2008 10:09 PM | Report abuse

The year the Democratic Party had a chance at the White House - Obama is bringing new life, youth, wide range of new voters from across the political spectrum. With him as the candidate, the nation wins big...and we may finally see action on the problems that our fractured, partisan political process won't address.

But sadly, Mrs. Clinton will fight tooth and nail to win for herself and for Bill's legacy, to the detriment of the party and the people of the United States. If you are going to run for the highest office in the land, you first have to think of the people you hope to serve.

Since Mrs. Clinton obviously is running for herself and Bill, she won't think of the good of the nation.

And so it goes.

Posted by: A hopeful citizen...losing hope | March 4, 2008 10:09 PM | Report abuse

Jacksmith:

Quick history lesson, Slick: The U.S. has never fought a war against a nuclear power. I am a little curious which 'nuclear power' you think the U.S. fought during Bill Clinton's tenure.

The following is a list of the world's know nuclear powers:

United States
Russia
England
France
China
India
Pakistan
Israel (undeclared)
N. Korea (undeclared)

Which one of these nine nations did we fight during the 1990s?

By the way, You Might Be An Idiot!

Posted by: David | March 4, 2008 10:12 PM | Report abuse

As I have yet to drink the Obama kool aid, I'm hoping Hillary hangs on until the rest of the party comes to its senses. Obama has accomplished nothing in his time in the Senate, and talks about nothing other than "hope" and "change" now. Hell, even the Obama supporters here don't seem to do much other than put "HOPE" and "CHANGE" in capital letters.

More importantly, despite his rhetoric, Obama has shown no ability to compromise. I'm not sure we should be nominating the most liberal member of the Senate when the Republicans have already nominated their most liberal Senator... in the long run, I think Obama loses a lot of moderate votes.

Posted by: chris | March 4, 2008 10:16 PM | Report abuse

One added point. With Mrs. Clinton as the Democratic candidate at the end of a very divisive and dirty primary, I pity the poor Democratic House candidates who are running behind her on the ticket.

Say goodbye to a Democratic majority in the House - even with the tremendous opportunities the Republicans are presenting by their resignations.

Posted by: Thinking more broadly | March 4, 2008 10:18 PM | Report abuse

The person who wrote obama obama obama obama a few hundred times must be a hillary clinton voter or extremely stupid. Say, which of the two are you?

What you are doing is extremely annoying and you know it.

Posted by: clem75 | March 4, 2008 10:30 PM | Report abuse

Obama should consider running as an independent if: (1)Hillary insists on taking credit for the Michigan and Florida primaries OR (2) Hillary wins Ohio and Texas with Rush Limbaugh republican votes

If Hillary and the republicans somehow game the system, Obama should run as an independent. Then will see if the republicans still vote for Hillary at the expense of their candidate (McCain). Now there are some republicans that genuily want Obama and will vote for Obama in the general election but the Rush Limbaugh republicans only want to spoil Obama's chances in the primary.

Posted by: BobBrown | March 4, 2008 10:36 PM | Report abuse

Americans surporting Hillary and McCain are so foolish, it would appear. If America loses out this time around just because rogues and establishment peoples like Hillary and McCain scuttle the movement of hope, change and sincerity as epitomised by Obama, it will be truly sad. Indeed they will be playing true to type as being selfish, parochial, dim witted and lacking in judgement.

America must wake up and see that it is not just about Obama as a person but the fact that he carries so much promise of uniting America AGAIN, restoring the American DREAM, and the birth of a new generation of American vision, character and GREATNESS. People even celebrate OBAMA in far away lands such as China, Tokyo, Africa, Europe e.t.c. America needs someone like that at this point-someone can can reach out to other nations and countries to restore the lost American goodwill. America needs someone like that now that other nations and countries will find approachable, not distant and cowboyish as the Bushes and republicans or the Hillary Clintons. A house divided against itself can never stand and this is my point and it the politics or Republicanism and Democratism e.t.c.

Obama could not have won all those states if the people that matter, the youth, the middle aged and educated-the people who truly have a need, did not support him. I mean look at it, there has been an unparalell resurgence in politics and sincere interest in the affiars of the state accross the entire spectra of the Amercian society, especially the youth-the future. They all have supported him because people are tied with the status quo and wants an infusion of fresh ideas, options and leadership. I don't know how anyone in his or right sense can vote for Hillary againts OBAMA because Hillary is true to type, cunning, selfish and overly ambitious. A fruit does not fall far from the tree-She is a potician without anything to offer and I CAN NEVER TRUST HER. Peoples especially Americans love and respect the Abraham Lincolns, Kennedys, Roosevelt for a reason- not only because this people have overcome great odds to attain true greatness but more importantly as I think, they provide the next generation with something to believe in, a good ideal to look forward to. A reason to live, to believe in humanity that tomorrow holds a promise irrepective of present adversity- This is HOPE. The Audacity of Hope symbolised by OBAMA more than McCain, Hillary Clinton or anyone in political horizon today.

Pls vote for OBAMA not only now but also in the General Election. The whole world, unlike the Bush Presidency, stands to gain something from a TRULY GREAT AMERICA again!!!! .

Posted by: Medvedev | March 4, 2008 10:38 PM | Report abuse

a coughing fit,, this is some incredible journalism - really you should be so proud of yourself.

Do you write for the Washington Post or People magazine? I can't really tell. I thought the Washington Post was a newspaper, not a media rag - no thanks, won't be back here. If you ever want to mae some more money, try Fox news, you'd fit right in.

Posted by: Tracy | March 4, 2008 10:46 PM | Report abuse

Supposedly Obama is trying to run a different kind of campaign. Too bad his supporters are such a mean spirited bunch.

Hillary may not get the nomination, but a lot of people have voted for her. Obama supporters had better be careful not to tear apart the party with their comments.

I considered both Hillary and Obama in our primary, and voted for Hillary. Obama supporters are making me take a look at McCain. Don't assume those that voted for Hillary will automatically fall in line. Nobody likes a sore winner.

Posted by: Disgusted | March 4, 2008 11:10 PM | Report abuse

Hillary still will not release her tax returns.

Why does she want to withhold such information from her fellow Democrats?

It seems pretty risky for the Democratic Party to nominate someone who will not level with it.

Why should we trust her? The Clintons don't exactly have reputations as truth tellers.

Posted by: martin edwin 'mick' andersen | March 4, 2008 11:37 PM | Report abuse

To my dear friend Disgusted,

I don't see Obama's supporters as mean-spirited. They are realistic that the negatives of Hillary are very unlikely to unite the country in a way that leads to progress - assuming that she could overcome the negatives that the Republicans will build their campaign on.

Posted by: Encouraged | March 4, 2008 11:39 PM | Report abuse

... are we gonna have all colours of the rainbow MEN now for president in developed America before a WOMAN can wave scepter there ?
surely Obama has great visions, you won't hear me about that; he's a democrat afterall, but let junior grow a little taller and his ideas ripe for some eight years first i'd say ... come on VOTE HILLARY !!!

Posted by: R o b o c o x | March 5, 2008 4:15 AM | Report abuse

As I lifelong republican I am amazed how this woman is destroying the democrats. I feel sorry for you guys.

If she beats Obama, McCain is going to win.

Posted by: John the Republican | March 7, 2008 9:27 PM | Report abuse

Somehow, the Obama people don't want to remember Clinton's goalposts. Bill Clinton had put the Ohio and Texas primaries as the "must" carry states for Hillary to continue in the race. The Obama campaign kept referring to this goalpost as the line on the sand. But after she won both primaries, Obama people started talking about her dropping out of the race, as if Obama won those states. Now who is moving the goalposts, Hillary or Obama? I suggest to Obama campaign that they should try to win, not cry for Hillary to drop out. It looks pathetic because Obama doesn't feel so confident any more.

Posted by: Nathan | March 31, 2008 3:05 PM | Report abuse

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