Man, am I glad I dumped Norton last year. One could even look at this as a good thing, if it gets people to rid themselves of that piece of bloated, useless crap. (Of course, they need to replace it with something better, otherwise it's frying pan into fire.)

I had a problem with Norton shutting down my incoming Outlook Express after one of their automatic updates. Tech solution ultimately (nothing else he suggested worked) was to uninstall and reinstall. But I couldn't reinstall because I couldn't download from the Symantec site; Norton customer service was no help. So with no virus or internet protection, I grabbed the beta Microsoft, along with the free zone alarm and avast antivirus. Glad to be rid of Norton; it never worked properly from the get-go; dumped ALL my incoming mail into the spam folder until I turned off that feature - but it was paid for as part of the bundle. So, if Microsoft and Norton conflict, my bet is on Microsoft.

Norton AV has flaws? Surprise (NOT!). More to the point, this Microsoft AV seems to really be a 'pre-beta' - or does 'beta' mean 'test it for us please it's 6 o'clock we will go home for the weekend'?

...and pity the companies that roll out a Microsoft product (beta or not) or any product without a solid couple-of-weeks burn-in tests. Maybe the frenetic patch rythm has given IT departments bad habits.

"or does 'beta' mean 'test it for us please it's 6 o'clock we will go home for the weekend'?"

Uhh, no. "Beta" means it's not suitable for production environments or systems you have important non-backed up data on. Use at your own risk. This was always the case with beta software, and it's really about time to learn this if you still haven't got it.

I was always an avid user of NAV, until I noticed how deeply entranched it becomes into the registry. A anti-virus solution should not hog resources and be a big issue to uninstall/remove...

I for one, the LAN I manage and its remote users; all have been migrated over to ESET's NOD32. Its a light program that runs fast and is updated daily.

No issues what-so-ever, other then Gooogle desktop; but there is a work around for that.

I installed MS AV BETA on a few non-critical machines to see how things work and nothings been amiss, but however with this issue I may uninstall the entire lot.

Maybe NAV really is a password stealer?...

We just ditched SAV 9 for TrendMicro's OfficeScan 7.0. You wouldn't BELIEVE how many viruses it let slip right by! I found 175 unique virus signatures (more than 2000+ occurrences) on supposedly "protected" *cough* systems... virus defs were current, centrally managed and all that. NAV/SAV's days are numbered. DOes this surprise anyone? I mean, does Veritas ever rally work right, either?

THis thing we called PC. Baby of Gates and Microsoft.

And Microsoft don't want to anyone earn one penny from PC.

Welcome to world of Microsoft....

This whole incident makes me shake my head. First, you guys get tricked into running an operating system and core set of applications that is completely wide open to virii, trojans, worms, spyware, and other malware, such that no one is safe unless they run third-party (i.e. Norton) tools. Then you stand by and actually applaud Microsoft as they stab the aftermarket vendors in the back by releasing their own predatory versions of antiviris and antispyware tools.

I just don't get it... I've run Linux for 7 years now and have never gotten a virus, trojan or worm, spyware has never infected my PC, and I don't even get web popups (oh, and my operating system and the thousands of programs I run are all FREE). Why does anyone put up with such irresponsibilty on the part of Microsoft? Hey, if you won't or can't run Linux, at least get a Mac... those Mac guys are immune to Windows malware, too.

This is almost as amusing as the Malicious Software Tool removing Internet Explorer.

Norton (shame on Peter for selling his name) Antivirus, and its associated security products, have in the last three years resulted in MORE problems for my end-users, not less. I still have to maintain an up to date NAV on one of my machines just so I know what to fix when a client's NAV-infested PC grinds to a halt.

Not only is NAV cumbersome and phenomenally resource hungry, SERC is no longer on the ball, missing viruses that are picked up by their competition. I've tested this myself - a fresh LiveUpdate to NAV2006 on Windows XPSP2, then I deliberately infected it with a two-week-old virus variant. NAV missed it completely, but NOD32, clamwin and Grisoft AVG Free all picked it up.

Also, because NAV has become almost as prevalent as Windows -- a three month trial comes bundled with many new machines, and unless renewed becomes impossible to uninstall safely -- it is a large enough target that clever malware programmers will figure out ways of getting past it.

Adding insult to injury, the plague of malware that has hit Windows so badly in the last twelve months has led to a large and ever-growing number of users throwing their hands up in disgust, putting their PCs out next to the trash, and replacing them with Apples. And there's another large contingent of potential switchers in the wings, awaiting news that yes you can really run Windows XP on one of the new Intel based Macintosh machines, even if it is only via an Intel-native build of Microsoft's VirtualPC.

Personally, I feel Norton Antivirus *is* a virus, because it exhibits all the hallmarks *of* a virus. Once it gets a foothold in your system, it sits there chewing system resource after system resource, and like any 'good' virus, is virtually impossible to remove from your Windows without leaving the OS in a state of extreme fragility. A re-format is the only safe way of getting rid of a Nortons "infection".

Perhaps this is why the Spy.Net people have flagged Norton AV as malicious?

Geoffrey

A couple of thoughts. I've run Windows for much longer than 7 years and have never been infected with a virus, trojan, spyware, etc. It's called responsible computing and has little to do with the operating system.

Geoffrey, if you're running NAV at your business, you're not much of a sysadmin. You should be running the Symantec's corporate product (SAV) - much more suited to that purpose.

This whole situation reminds me of the dirty tactics Microsoft used to undercut Netscape way back when - intentionally break NS with Windows and IE updates and then deny it long enough to sew FUD. Happens every time MS introduces a new product, in fact.

Strange how all the posts here attack Norton’s AV instead of talking about the issue of Microsoft software messing up someone computer someone at MS doing some posting?

Symantec hasn't sued Microsoft on this as yet ? Very surprising....this is not just a beta, pre-beta etc issue. Microsoft's Anti-Spyware has been designed to somehow remove Norton. This is as dirty as it gets.

The only reason I still have a copy of Windows installed on a computer here is games...and the _last_ thing I'd want running on a game PC is an unstable, resource-gobbling Symantec product!

Folks, if you really don't _need_ to be running Adobe Photoshop, or Quicken, or some other Windows-only app, grab a free copy of Ubuntu or SUSE Linux and never have to worry about the crud which plagues your life daily as a Microsoft Windows user.

You don't have to be a techie or geek to install or use Linux now...it's easier, safer, stabler and vastly more secure than Windows.

Anyone that uses Norton AV, really doesn't have a clue about the AV products that are out there, corportate OR user. I make all my co workers install (on their home laptops) Firefox, Sygate Firewall and Grisoft's 'AVG Free' (removing Norton AV/Firewall and not using IE). After that, infections don't happen, and their XP laptops are faster.

Brian, thanks for the article and the links to the discussion groups. I concur with mmlj4's analysis about buying an insecure OS only to have it de-activate the user's solution to the problem! I'll stick with Norton, but likely not Microsoft.

It's just amazing the things that happen in a WinDoZe world. Working for a small computer service company, I am constantly amazed at how horrible a lot of AntiVirus software is. AOL security center? Oh yeah, that's a stripped down Macafee. Norton, Macafee, etc are useless. We install Avast, a free for non commercial use program mentioned earlier that ALWAYS finds a virus that the other guys have missed. It's insane. Of course, as the WinDoZe guys always hate to hear and never believe, I, who have run Linux for 7 years, have NEVER had a virus on ANY of my machines. I have Linux on a Sun, Linux on several Macs, Linux on my AS/400, Linux on my Dell(amazing, but not all Dell's are garbage). I'm actually glad that Linux uptake on the desktop is so slow. Keeps the virus and spayware writers targeting everyone else. Ah well, without M$, I wouldn't have such an nice job.

I don't think I'd hold Symantec higher than Microsoft... This isn't an issue with M$ attacking Norton. It's the programers who create mal-ware create files that have the same signature as Norton files - hmmm by design? You betchya.

Either way - Norton is a horrible resource hog on windows machines. You'll be better off removing it and running a free AV software like AVG or CA's one year trial.

Good luck to you all - I'm luck enough to have a citrix connection to allow me to use any windows-only app I need.

It might be worth mentioning that MS is trying to develop web services for scanning and cleaning infected machines, wouldn't have as many people sign up for that service if there 3rd party products that were already doing that, eh? Might be something to the idea that they made anti-spyware target NAV.

NAV and NIS truly annoying. Symantec tech support worse than useless. Had a problem trying to install NIS and they wanted me to just about remove all my programs. Nice try.

I used Norton products for a decade and always recommended NIS/NAV to my clients until NIS 2005 caused more problems than it solved. Symantec has recycled outdated code far too long and that old Norton horse has been ridden into the ground. It took their tech support 21 days to email back to me an erroneous solution that had no relation to my post. I consider Symantec's product line marketed as Norton to be worse than most malware. No wonder it got tagged by MSAS.

One user posted:
"I've run Linux for 7 years now and have never gotten a virus, trojan or worm, spyware has never infected my PC, and I don't even get web popups (oh, and my operating system and the thousands of programs I run are all FREE)."

Heh. Linux is only free if your time is worthless. Its stupid to advocate Linux for day to day use as its un-userfriendly to the general populous and lacking most major commercial software is just illogical.He does advocate a Mac which is a viable alternative but still often lacks certain software. Finger pointing goes all around but the insecurity of Windows is partly the failure of its own success. Too many people trying to exploit it.

Mike, the only reason I have NAV on _one_ machine (out of seven, four of which run Mac OS), is to have the knowledge of how to repair the inevitable damage caused by people who come to me with NAV-related (or NAV-caused) problems. Being a good sysadmin is knowing about what the current problems are on machines in the marketplace, and how to fix them, surely :)

I don't use it on a personal workstation, heaven forfend! I learned *that* lesson a long time ago. It behooves me to have a machine (which lives on the DMZ and has a network identifier of 'Jeopardy' for obvious reasons) dedicated to "being normal", that is, treated like most Windows computers are, with minimal protection. I myself practice, preach and teach responsible computing, but the fact of the matter is today's Windows PCs are marketed like toasters or VCRs. Walk into Walmart, pick out a Pentium, plug it in, turn it on, click the little blue IE icon, turn it off when they're done. They're not told of the risks, they're often completely unaware that hooking a fresh XPSP2 machine into the internet means it will become infected with malware inside four minutes.

So people pay me to fix their cock-ups (and Microsoft's). It's a living, and for my modest lifestyle, lucrative enough.

I'm thorough in my repairs, though, and inevitably after I've looked at a machine I have to tell the client it needs a bare-metal rebuild -- rescuing all data, zeroing the drive, reinstalling the OS, applying updates, hardening the system with Spybot, Kerio Firewall and (funnily enough) MS Anti Spyware, adding Firefox, locking out IE and OE, and a host of other tweaks. I know that to do it properly will take me two days, and my hourly rates are low, but there's a lot of hours.

Once it's fixed and as secure as I can make it, I teach them responsible computing. The idea is, I don't *want* them to come back. It works, too ... but then they send their friends around with their own sick PCs, and away I go again.

If the ailing Windows machine is too old to be worth the expense of a rebuild, I find out their needs and recommend a suitable upgrade ... and if those needs are general enough, and don't entail gaming past the occasional Freecell or World Of Warcraft, I show them Mac OS X, show them Office X Pro running Windows, and show them the Mac Mini's price tag.

Needless to say, my local Apple reseller likes me :)

Oh. And I never ever recommend linux or Debian or BSD or any other unix-alike OS to my customers and clients, unless they're a nerd or the machine is in a specialised corporate environment. My clients are the Joe & Jane Averages out there, with a single home PC used for web use, photo printing, games and other 'usual' home tasks. For them, *nix cannot meet their needs, so for the forseeable future, *nix will remain a sandbox OS for the extremely geeky. The apps for general-purpose computing are either not there, or their interface is too arcane for the average user, or incompatible with what their work and their friends use.

Geoffrey

Fred- Just 'cause you're too stupid to run Linux, doesn't mean the "general populous" is! JAG

Good Job Microsoft! Norton Sucks and Should be removed :)AVG ALL THE WAY!

MAKE WAY FOR MS ANTIVIRUS!

Has to be Norton's fault, somehow. Subscribe to MS all-around protection today. $49.95/yr.

(Beta until 2010... MS does not take responsibility for any data loss, disruption of networking services or loss of life due to use of their beta products.)

retards

My what finger pointing at this that and the other. Wasn't Linux originally a command line OS?, but then went GUI? We all must remember that the operating system as well as AV is a matter of what one person likes. You might like e-trust AV she might like AVG AV...and it goes on. Windows is the main os for the general population as it will be until Linux will run Doom3 and Halo2. We ho use Linux like it yes we relly don't worry about virii and all the aother crap out there. I think the whol Microsoft is making a program to protect thier own OS funny, should they do that already, and offer updates on thier update site. Think about the possibility of Google and Sun releasing thier own OS, how about if you don't like Linux or Windows come up with something better. Its easy to throw stones, if you don't like it gt busy people. Or jsut simply don't use Microsofts antispyware...grab apybot search and destroy or ad-aware from lavasoft...

Hello! Personally I do not like NAV, have no opinion on Billy Gate's Anti-Virus program and I use AVG. The problems from my point of view is not one company vs the other. The problem is that anyone stupid to run two different anti-virus programs on the the same computer has no idea about anti-virus programs - Two anti-virus programs can not exist on the same computer without having problems with one screwing with the other and vice versa - Read Anti-Virus 101!

Just set up a new Windows XP SP2 install and installed Norton AV Corporate version 10 and then installed Microsoft Anti-spyware (defs 5807) and ran multiple scans. It did not detect Norton as a threat. My Norton virus def files are: 2/11/2006 rev. 4.
Looking at some of the blogs, MAS 5705 was a problem, but this article may have listed 5707 incorrectly or a clean install affects the results.

as for the last comment about Linux

"Its stupid to advocate Linux for day to day use as its un-userfriendly to the general populous"

this is NOT correct at all.. there are plenty of versions of Linux that actually are easier to install and setup thyan Windows to name a few
Xandros, Linspire and Mepis.
So if any of you think Windows is a pain to install and then u have to install stuff like acrobat reader etc etc etc with most new versions of Linux that installs automatically in about 20 minutes

I run a mac and my windows box is sitting in the corner I started on Linux then bought a Mac as there was good music recording software there.

As for this MS and NAV problem it is just a sad state.

What Microsoft need to do is do what Steve Jobs did..
Build a new OS from scratch as it is all this backwards compatibility that causes them grief.
Jobs drop 0S9 and built OSX from the ground up and thats one reason why it is so good.
Unfortunately we are going to have a hangover from XP etc with Vista.. come on Bill bite the bullet and do a from the ground up version and eventually over a few years people will move to it .. if you can do it right this time.

Ok What happen to my first post? I stated that running two anti-virus programs at the same time on the same computer will butt heads against each other - so thoes who chear MS and thoes who chear Norton are both running around in circles chasing their tails about nothing. I agree with others - I use Firefox, Thunderbird, AVG, ZoneAlarm and update them and Windows weekly etc. No problems.

I'm no lover of Norton. It IS a resource hog and inexplicably interferes with legitimate programs, including GOOGLE desktop crawler even though I have listed both the program and the IP on the exception list.

But Microsoft is flat irresponsible for releasing software that is going to muck with Norton - a widespread and common application even if bloated.

Here's the big rub. When GOOGLE or Mozilla release something that is labelled as BETA, what they mean is truly BETA but they clearly monitor and they are PREPARED to do fixes post haste.

Microsoft, on the other hand, seems to have adopted the "Beta" label but their idea of Beta is way different from the likes of GOOGLE and MOZILLA and, in fact, classic Microsoft.

My advice... don't believe Microsoft when they say "beta" - because there is no real commitment to stay on task and they truly do mean that their beta software is... not for serious use.

So.. here we are... with choices... bloated Norton AV or half-assed Beta from Microsoft.

What a choice.

Man, am I glad I dumped Microsoft last year. One could even look at this as a good thing, if it gets people to rid themselves of that piece of bloated, useless crap. (Of course, they need to replace it with something better, otherwise it's frying pan into fire.)

I got Mac OS X.

Having used both Windows at Linux at home AND at work, I would say that both are time-consuming to learn, maintain and keep working - Linux possibly less so.

A previous poster mentioned Photoshop as Windows-only - obviously all Adobe products run on Mac, as that is where they started life.

What an amusing blog! You all remind me of my old windows days :)

I am getting fed up from people saying that windows is the failure of it's own success.

The main problem is that windows was never designed to be secure, there is no usable privilege separation, no visible multiuser system, no chrooting concept, and many many more ... windows design is simply BAD ...

On the other side, GNU/Linux may seem complex and unusable, but i think that's all wrong, people simply got caught in Microsoft lock-in trap. GNU/Linux is just different, for example we don't use setup.exe to install our programs, because we cannot trust what we download from the net, we prefer software repository.

For those who want support, many GNU/Linux distributions are commercial, and many software on GNU/Linux are also commercial, that can make you avoid WASTING your time.

I can still continue arguing, but i think it's pretty worthless with closed minds ...

I forgot to say that linux runs Doom3 for those who don't know ...

The only Norton worthy of mounting is an 850 Commando, maybe a 750 Atlas.

"I've run Linux for 7 years now and have never gotten a virus, trojan or worm, spyware has never infected my PC, and I don't even get web popups (oh, and my operating system and the thousands of programs I run are all FREE)."

Heh. Linux is only free if your time is worthless. Its stupid to advocate Linux for day to day use as its un-userfriendly to the general populous and lacking most major commercial software is just illogical.He does advocate a Mac which is a viable alternative but still often lacks certain software. Finger pointing goes all around but the insecurity of Windows is partly the failure of its own success. Too many people trying to exploit it.

I'm sorry, but the theory of a wider user base = more exploits has nothing to do with what operating system is less virii prone. This is a common misconception.

As far as using Macintosh products, we all know why people don't use them: They (people) are CHEAP!

As far as using Linux solutions, we all know why people don't use them: They (people) are lazy!

There, now, go cry in your anti-virus/spam/mal/infect-ware applications, and your insecure (beit linux/mac/windows/whatever) operating ENVIRONMENT (which includes the users mucking it all up) and quite complaining about POORLY done software!

If it sucks, DON"T BUY IT!
If it doesn't work, for you, DON"T USE IT!

quit supporting them, and they will die off, properly.

Does that mean Microsoft is making way for its own Anti Virus?

Windows is a virus, unstable, bloated and hard to use.

If you want real stability and a real operating system. Use Fedora Core 4, or RHEL_WS3 or 4. No virii, no malware, no trojans. and it is easy to use, install and maintain.

"linux is only free if your time is worthless. it's stupid to advocate linux for day-to-day use..."

please see kdelook.org, and search for kroller or kroller.sez as a good example of why you are wrong: it is blatantly obvious that you are misinformed and out of date. this is not your fault: there is no marketing department for linux, to feed you the information that you haven't the time or intelligence to find out for yourself.

consider this: the time that you spend reinstalling windows; the time that you spend frigging about with anti-virus and anti-spyware; the time that you spend dicking about with downloading drivers; the time that you spend in dll-hell; the time that you spend working out how to get office xp to open your friends' word 97 or word 2000 document... and i haven't even _mentioned_ how much money you spent for all this disempowering "technology"...

... how does that compare to a couple of hours of your time sitting in front of kubuntu, knoppix or even, horror-of-horrors, a plain debian sarge 3.1 vanilla install?

tell me: i really want to know.

http://openoffice.org (office)
http://mozilla.org (thunderbird and firefox)
http://blender.org (CAD/CAM suite)
http://gtkpod.sf.net (ipod management)
http://gimp.org (picture editing)
http://www.kinodv.org/ (video editing)
http://demudi.org/ (music/video distro)
http://linuxprinting.org (printer listings)
http://www.sane-project.org/ (scanner listings)
http://kde-look.org (look specially for karamba)

... did i miss anything out?

what, other than internet, email, documents, printing and scanning, could the ordinary office user ever want?

oh yes - watch dodgy videos:

http://xinehq.de/
https://player.helixcommunity.org/
http://linuxtv.org/
http://www.mplayer.org/

are you _getting_ it yet???

oh - and if you _really_ want to get rid of the annoying spam and viruses - not because they can be executed on your machine, but because they get very boring very quickly and take up your time deleting them after they fail to infect your computer or your mind:

http://spamassassin.apache.org/
http://www.clamav.net/

if you use debian, then there's some "non-free" software available from http://debian-marillat.net which you can get win32 codecs, CSS descrambler, quicktime plugins, VLC plugins, mpeg encoder/decoders - all the sorts of stuff that doesn't help a business' day-to-day office profitability but i am mentioning them here cos your "linux don't cut it" comments are just beginning to piss me off.

apologies: the debian-marillat url is wrong. you want this, in /etc/apt/sources.list (or to use a nice GUI program which comes as standard with debian which will help you add the line to the right file, for you):

# w32codecs and stuff
deb http://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat/ sarge main

DOOM3 / Linux HOWTO:

http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/hints/downloads/files/doom3_winex_blfs.txt

for the _very_ geeky :)

oh - and if you don't like the geekiness bit: go pay cedega / transgaming some money, and they'll provide you with a nice CD you can nicely install and nicely not have to think.

Halo2 you will have to wait until the http://reactos.org team have Vista interoperability.

http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/188

" To mess up a Linux box, you need to work at it; to mess up your Windows box, you just need to work on it."

i've put several people (some of whom had not owned a computer before), ranging from 13 years to 60, onto linux. they got it immediately. they use it daily. some of the machines i put them in front of are pentium 500s (fortunately with 256mb ram).

the only people who have difficulty with linux are those who are entrenched in a windows mindset.

Users should take notice from Microsoft Antispyware and delete Norton as instructed. Not because its a trojan, because its a horrible product!

I am fascinated at the way that people have used an MS mistake to point out thier frustration with Norton. The reason is simple -- Norton's products have become some of the most worthless, frustrating, and counter-productive software to be foisted on a gullible public. People blindly rely on the Norton name, and past glory, without even bothering to evaluate the product (or discover that Norton sold the name to a completely unrelated Indian company a few years ago).

To bad symantec aquirred sygate, they're pushing there junk now

Sygate's already sold out to symantec. so no more free personal firewall. Now you have to buy Norton's firewall.

I had the same problem with Norton stopping my incoming OE mail. It completely ruined my New Years Eve weekend. After manay many hours the only thin that worked was to uninstall all of my Norton and install a new version.

You would think a convicted monolpolist would learn their lesson. MSFT is either just stupid or they remain convinced that they can play by their own rules with impunity. How does code that removes Norton files even get to beta mode? Idiotic.

norton bites!

I find it interesting. I haven't had any problems with MS AS trying to delete my Norton AV. I checked MS AS, and I'm running the 5803 update, not the problematic 5805 and 5807 updates, and according to the update procedure, I've got the latest update. Since I leave my computer on all the time, one would think that I would already have the update(s), but I don't.

I would have been able to determine that MS AS was trying to delete something it shouldn't be deleting. Trend Micro has always wanted to delete a program that I used to run (pre-Windows 95) all the time (which other AVs don't seem to mind). Not that it matters any more, as I think it stopped working when we went to FAT-16.

i would never trust any security application from microsoft.

I have been using NAV since version 2.0, and I have only had problems with the 2004 version.

Yes it is getting big, but the are millions of virus and such out there.

And unlike some AV programs it's a one step update to update definitions and engine.

I have installed my own copy at work and watched while the other computers around me fall over from an attach and my computer has stayed running. IT even used it to download updates to fix the others.

If microsoft did a better job of fixing there own OS they wouldn't need an AV product would they?

I'm not surprised I've had terrible problems with Microsoft AntiSpyware including BSoD and on a couple of PCs requiring full reinstalls. You should run anti spyware and I use Spyware Doctor from PC Tools because it's a dedicated product and is the best of the bunch. Webroot is also good, and thirdly I would choose Zone's product. I agree with the other posts about ripping off Symantec, it's a waste of resources with so many better options around.

The problem with the whole situation here is that people are placing the blame (and the responsibility for fixing these problems) in the wrong place. It's not Microsoft's fault. It's not Norton's fault. It's YOUR fault.

You should have bought a Mac in the first place.

False positives are part of the Anti-Virus and Anti-Spyware game. Symantec has detected SpyBot and Spy-Sweeper in the past as malware. Microsoft's Anti-spyware is known in the industry for it's high false positives rate. As the author and Microsoft have pointed out “Microsoft Anti-Spyware should not be deployed in production systems” or be treated as a non-beta software. If a user or admin is running any security software such as anti-virus, anti-spware or firewall and always presses “Yes” without looking into the issue themselves odds are pressing “Yes” every time is the exact way they got the malware in the first place.

I have never read so much shite in my life, bashing norton over a beta ms app, fact is no pc is safe on web if windows or linux shit or shit macs,

Firefox is also full of holes and only last week 2 new exploits found, its shit imo.

I dont get viruses or issues as i protect my windows pc, 99% of problems are the idiot users.

If tomorrow the world all started to use macs or linux or firfox they would be the no1 target instead.

Learn how to control your computers ,dont let them control you this is the major problem with users today there clueless.99.99% of them anyway.

WindowsXP is a fine piece of software and always will be,its also supported very well prove me wrong please.

There is no OS supported in any better way ,linux ya right name the great programs you run on this and what you do with them.Thats what I thoughtthere is none because they are good for nothing to do with every day users.

I'm not saying it's deliberate, I'm just saying it's interesting that this problem appears only a day or two after MS announces it's getting into the AV, anti-spyware, security market.

Suggtested marketing announcement: "New from MS: software that protects you (for an annual subscription fee) from the flaws of our other software, for which you also had to pay. Oh, and our new software is better than similar software from third parties. You can tell because it identifies the others as bad."

On a related note -- well, related in the logic of rant world, where I'm living at the moment -- I guess this is another tactic in the MS drive to switch to a guaranteed, annual revenue model. First, resurrecting IBM's annual software leasing model for MS corporate customers, now something similar for consumers. Who needs MS Windows revenue when they can make more money selling software to protect you from MS Windows flaws?

Where's the FTC when you need them?

I'm just sayin'...

Norton products are worse than useless. I've mainly used Mac OS X for years now, but I do still use Windows now and then for odd tasks. I recently picked up a Windows laptop. It was a Vaio from Sony and was encumbered with *several* of the pests. I guess stinking Symantec has a deal with stinking Sony.

These stupid programs are not only wasteful, and inefficient, but highly instrusive, too. They even have one now specifically to interfere with the Windows Security Center. They are also virtually impossible to disable when that's necessary for admin tasks, and are prone to periodically reset any setting you choose to what they prefer. NIS even stopped Thunderbird from fetching mail.

And moronic Sony puts the lot on - some kickback, I guess, and ***sod the user***. I guess I should have known that from the rootkitted CD fiasco.

Needless to stay, I stripped every Norton piece of junk out and put a decent AV program on there instead - NOD32.

But really I prefer using my Mac. No trouble, and no AV software necessary.

Yikes i'm not supprise if that happened to the system regarding NAV this lately, NAV to me is undapendable and annoying, try this for some reason if someone out there were using a YAHOO MESSENGER, then uninstall NAV as you notice these NAV is corrupt as reported try to uninstall it, you'll find a sort of problem with your yahoo messenger believe me, either you reinstall you yahoo messenger the problem still occure, i dont have any repair solutions about this problem unless you are a computer expert otherwise formating your OS back is the only choise..

I've been running both NAV as well as Microsoft Anti-Spyware for the past month with no issues whatsoever.

I've watched the PC industry since the fastest system was 8 mhz! Microshaft has been playing this game for a long time and they know how to play it well with so many years of experience. False posts are created to give a "spin" on their own problems. To all the dumb consumers who fall for Microshaft, and there are a lot of you suckers out there, ask yourself should you even consider getting virus protection from a company that constantly is found to have critical updates for it's OS???? How many patches are you going to have to get to fix this next Microshaft mess when it hits the retail market. Thirs party programs have more intent and it is in their best interest to give you good product so they can stay in the market. If Microshaft rolls over on most of them and takes a chokehold of them then support for your virus product via Microshaft will only be updated in their interest, not yours and you are likely to be paying much more in the long run than you intended. Is Norton better? Is McAffe better? Is Black Ice better? Who cares as that is all just spin. Just don't insult my intelligence by thinking I'm going to support Microshaft in any way for virus protection. Also, Microshaft, tell your lackeys to stop posting garbage!

"Heh. Linux is only free if your time is worthless. Its stupid to advocate Linux for day to day use as its un-userfriendly to the general populous and lacking most major commercial software is just illogical."

Obviously you haven't used any recent distributions of Linux or you'd realize just how flawed that statement is. I installed Ubuntu on my laptop... Worked without a hitch. No tweaking config files, no hassle of having to read man pages to figure out how to do the simplest of tasks, nothing. As for major software, if you're talking about MS Office, try researching OpenOffice.org sometime. MS Outlook, try Evolution or one of the many other email clients available. The one thing it does lack is support from the game industry, but that isn't a problem of the operating system, it's the game industry being ignorant.

In short, make sure you know what you're talking about before you post.

Norton Anti-Virus works great for me!!
No viruses here.

A mac does not even have stack protection!
And here it comes onto x86 architecture.

lets see what happens.

Norton might not be a "password stealing trojan", but I know many educated computer users including myself that DO consider it a bloated pile of crappy misfunctioning malware. So MS antispyware is working A-OK in that regard.

The biggest reason why there is so many viruses and malware for windows is beacuse windows has the largested installed user base of any opperating system. If Linux or any other OS gained the user base that windows has it would be become the target of hackers and spammers and virus writters. As was posted before windows is a victim of its own sucess. BTW Norton is nothing more then poorly recycled old bloatware. Free programs do a better job and they dont destroy the system when you uninstall them.

Is it Symantec Antivirus Corporate Edition or the Norton Anti Virus Home edition that is affected?

Quote by George:
"Maybe NAV really is a password stealer?..."

It would be the perfect ploy! It's always possible...

As much as i have tried and wanted to use linux, the problems of sleep and hibernation on my laptops are still a mayor issue - i make linspire or mandrake dualboots to ensure safety of windows systems but a shift is hindered by the use of pure windows programs, printers, mice, dvdburners etc which work but not perfectly so in linux, especially with killer applications such as picasa (the ease and speed is the catch here)

I have helped friends making their computer work by removing norton, and eventually using nod32 myself (small, fast, unobtrusive, seemingly most effective in real testing)

I have never owned an Antivirus program and I have never gotten a virus. Only idiots get viruses, because only idiots fall prey to the stupid e-mails they see with file attachments named hotgirl.vbs and they have just have to open it. One other interesting conspiracy of the whole MS Antispyware program being beta is that Microsoft can just keep it beta and not get in trouble with having any sort of monopoly on a product since it isn't truely in production. However, I really like the program so I don't really care.

Folks who think Linux (Unix) is "safe" obviously have never worked for the government, especially the scientific agencies that use Linux and other forms of UNIX.

If you think Windows was never designed to be secure and UNIX was - you're dreaming.
UNIX is actually WORSE than windows in many respects because of it's fundamental flaw involving buffer overflows - which usually "hang" the system at a root level command line.

One of the other primary differences is that Windows has a panopoly of hackers ranging from pests to experts while UNIX hackers tend to be almost professional in their skills - but have no doubt - that UNIX is equally insecure as windows unless the folks maintaining a UNIX system know how to properly configure it.

Government UNIX networks have a long history of being hacked into and beyond knowing how to secure a machine, the basics involve installing a program like
Tripwire - which generates a daily report as to which files have changed - which is the only true way to know if a machine has been hacked - and that job is not simple - because many files change under normal circumstances but other files - key system files should not and so what programs like Tripwire do is tell you if your critical system files have changed.

Windows apparently has no such software available and I would think that BEFORE any antivirus program looks for "signatures", that FIRST they'd look for changes to critical system files or
new files and check those FIRST for signatures.

My Norton AV... runs every night - and
every night it checks every single file -
the same files it checked the night before -whether they have changed or not - which to me is just plain dumb.

The very FIRST Scan that ANY AV program should do is to check your critical system files ... and then if it still wants to do a DUMB systemwide scan.. go for it - though
I would like the option of configuring Norton AV to do "smarter" scans.

It would seem that the topic has moved from the original question re MS obliterating Symantec to an AV quetion, and so my two-pence: Symatec's programs, ime, tend to be very resource hungry, and very fragile. Their detection rates are not as bad as many others, but still let in far too much. The same can be said of McAfee. AVG 'free', is very good considering its 'cost'- but unfortunately its AV engine is not as good as much of the competitions. Trend is a combination of the two: OK detection, just OK stability (based on the corporate networks I have had experience with). To get a better idea of how your AV compares see www.av-comparatives.org - click on comparatives, and then no. 7- online results Aug '05. Bearing in mind that this is detection rates alone, without any thought for stability and other issues mentioned. You might be able to guess once you've looked at it which AV I use, both personaly, and corporately. Fast, user friendly, small foot-print, hourly updates (40kb!), and the best response times in the industry. I'll give you a hint...it starts with a 'K', and I thouroughly recommend it.

Larry,

The program I use does exactly that: It will initially run for 14 days, checking everything to ensure a completely clean system, and then after that only check files that have been changed in any way by comparing their checksum values against the database of last checked files. This can bring down a full system scan from hours to mere minutes depending upon file use, drive speed, and system speed.

HTH

Having spent a little bit of time discovering for myself that no antivirus appears to pick up all viruses, I'm surprised to see so many people claiming that one product is so much better than another.

In any case, I have to wonder how accurate the MS tool is, and just how well it really does work - especially given that a friend found a bit of malware for snarfing banking passwords on his machine. It slipped past the MS antispyware tool.

At the moment it seems to suffer the same problems as antivirus products. It's nothing more than a reactive tool, rather than a proactive tool.

a large number of comments which answered the "linux is worthless" comment have been removed, which provided useful information and insight into how an individual could get themselves out of the unbelievable difficulties forced at them by microsoft.

that leaves the washington post in a difficult position: of being complicit in helping maintain microsoft's dominant and completely unpalatable position.

why would the washington post want to do such a thing?

As an experiment last summer my self and some colleages at the local university ran a test on Norton internet security 2005, we set up 100 identical HP desktop machines using the sames drive image. Then installed NIS on them , of the 100, 11 crashed, 5 refusing to boot into windows at all. A problem with windows I don't think.

I'm 2nd level tech support staff, and nearly 87 percent of out Internet related connectivity issues is because of Norton’s Internet Security or NIS breaking down.
I hope ms anti spyware does not just get rid of parts of NAV, but uninstalls the whole package. It's completely useless.
Choose anything else except NAV or NIS. (Symantec = malware)

"Linux is only free if your time is worthless. "

Its stupid to advocate Windows for day to day use as it consumes too much of the users time on removing spyware and viruses, worms and other things, instead of actually working.

"Finger pointing goes all around but the insecurity of Windows is partly the failure of its own success. Too many people trying to exploit it."

Too many people find it to simple to exploit, because of its bad design. Apache, bind and many other open source software run the interent, or on peoples desktops (e.g. firefox) and are not so easily exploited.

http://www.informationweek.com/windows/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=F31K0LA31WP5MQSNDBOCKHSCJUMEKJVN?articleID=179102695&pgno=2

Even FUD needs to based on facts.

Norton Antivirus, or any symantec product is worse than any trojan. Take any decent worthwhile program and sell it to symantec, and it becomes a useless pile of resource robbing malware...'nuff said.

:-))))

someone said linux is useless for day to day use as it is not user friendly.
Dear friend, no offence meant, but your brains are not up to date.
I have used Microsoft product since DOS, but dumped all 2 years ago.
You won't get me going back to windows , not even with a gun to my head.
I can do EVERY THING with Linux EVERY day.
Ofcourse...if you don't/can't read a Manual, it might be user-un-friendly

Someone above commented about burning in products before using them in production. How about using MAS for a year without problems, is that long enough before assuming it is OK like I did? Maybe we shoud wait for 2 years or longer? If it is a spyware definition problem, the error could be made by other software suppliers. It is rather ironic that it was Microsoft that did it!

Symantec and Norton are such crappy products. I'm guessing people knew something was wrong once their systems started running faster, shortly after Symantec software was removed.

Norton is GOOD at monitering, not stopping problems after breakout. In todays world you need all help you can get, Google gives Norton 2005 away for free.Norton is not stupid, their back lot is littered with vacum chambers & inside warehouse is packed with 100s' of tons of retired electronic equipment, so its' not just some basement party bouncer. Give credit where its due, There are more nuts to monitor & stop on internet than anyone could even begin to count or control.NORTONIZATION is one more leveling factor.

I've read the comments above and haven't found anyone who reported the same as I'm about to post here. I spend an inordinate amount of time on two WinXP machines that have MS Antispyware installed. One contains a well-tuned installation of Norton I.S. and the other uses AVG Free.

I have seen NONE of the problems reported by running these packages together.

This is not to say that I think MS Antispyware is a great program, nor that I am advocating NIS or AVG. I think ALL these programs could be better. Still, the problem posted here is not happening on ALL machines which, by my reckoning, indicates that other factors may be at play here.

Quote: "I make all my co workers install (on their home laptops) Firefox, Sygate Firewall and Grisoft's 'AVG Free'"

Sygate was bought out by Symantec and their product line has been discontinued. You still recommend using it?

I have never found any value in Norton software and when I removed it after the first year had passed I found zero files removed by it.

I have never been able to get the norton logo and msg off my email - help??
It's been a bitch just getting all the rest of the Norton garbage off my drive.

Since the release of Windows 95, I have been using NAV and, later, NIV with all its bells and whistles. Still do with XP Professional and SP2 on 5 PCs. Very little problems. No viruses since on on Windows 3.1. I go back to the famous 'Cookie Monster' virus before Windows 3.1. NAV/NIV cerainly take up resources, but I have them on my systems and intend to keep using NIV until something is proved better, not by by just words and flames as many in this blog have emitted. BTW, I've been a data communications software specialist in my former career.

"Firefox, Sygate Firewall and Grisoft's 'AVG Free'...and not using IE"

Actually I use Maxthon, which is an IE frontend and have had very few problems but that quote pretty well says it all.

If you need a particular Windows-only software package, then Linux isn't for you. But it's silly to claim that it's less user-friendly than Windows. *ALL* systems are pretty user friendly until something goes wrong and then they are all pretty user-unfriendly. At least with Linux, I stand some chance of being able to discover the problem and fix it. So many Windows problems are impossible to figure out and fix. Linux has served me well as a virus-free primary desktop for several years.

"Heh. Linux is only free if your time is worthless. Its stupid to advocate Linux for day to day use as its un-userfriendly to the general populous and lacking most major commercial software is just illogical.He does advocate a Mac which is a viable alternative but still often lacks certain software. Finger pointing goes all around but the insecurity of Windows is partly the failure of its own success. Too many people trying to exploit it."

I fail to grasp your logic on this post. There are quite a few issues I have with the whole statement actually.

"...un-userfriendly..." - Is this from personal experience, or are you pulling your opinions straight from other peoples' opinions that you read?

"..lacking most major commercial software.." - I believe you're failing to see the whole picture. You seem blind to the fact you (and probably the people you got your opinions from) are too lazy to actually research what exists for Linux desktops; be it commercial or non-commercial.

"...too many people trying to exploit it..." - Is that an excuse?

You're a funny guy.

I suppose if a person is unwilling to learn new things, then he/she is confined to the Microsoft world according to your statements. Of course, the argument of teaching expenses and time go no further than that of simply being ignorant.

/bash

If M$ Anti-Spyware is such a pre-beta, why the hell won't Windows Update shut up about it? Every other day it pops a window at me to install another M$ POS app, and no matter HOW MANY TIMES I tell it to not notify me of that update again, there it goes, popping up little notices to install it!

Note to M$ - quit trying to ram your crapware down my throat. I have several great free spyware detection apps on my system already, thank you. Stick to trying to FIX YOUR OPERATING SYSTEM instead of trying to sell fixes to eliminate 3rd party vendors. Where the heck's the DOJ on this stuff??? Oh wait, they must have cashed their checks this week.

just did ms/as and it found nothink
did spy bot found 12 things (not including cookies)

Some Hippy,

You can turn off the automatic update notifier.

Again, another example of people who get pissed off because they can't operate the system they choose to run.

Is this ignorance?

Every punch these proprietary software guys throw at each other goes right across the chin of the hapless consumer. I too am shaking my head. The consumer must be punch drunk by now.

I have given up feeling sorry for these people. Everyone has heard of Linux and must know it is a viable alternative to Windows. As far as I'm concerned they deserve every virus/malware that infects their machines. Everytime Microsoft screws up their computers they just bend over a little more. Sad, very sad.

For every Windows only piece of software there is an equal if not greater program to do it for free that someone has created. Sometimes they may not look as pretty, sometimes they could be an exact clone copied to linux. Also with windows emulators and the rate at which the usability of the linux desktop is increasing there really isn't much reason not to change anymore. Personally I run 3 machines at home full time. Two of them are on Linux, one running SUSE 10.0 and one running Ubuntu. Although very different both of these modern linux distributions are very user friendly even to those just learning the operating system. Lack of software is no longer an excuse. Ignorance is Bliss though isn't it?

The problem with Linux is its fanbase.

What a bunch of whiny little babies...geez! Norton Corp Edition works great, I've used it as several very large corporations and never had any virus problems or seen a virus it couldn't remove. Now the home edition is a piece of crap...it can't touch anything and doesn't work. Don't confuse the two products. As for the MS Antispyware, def 5803 & 5805 targeted Norton in error. As of def 5807 that problem has been corrected! And system restore on Win XP corrects the problem that def 5805 caused, by using a restore point. If you guys can't figure that out, you're a bunch of idiots! So grow up, do your homework, and stop whining and bashing everyone and everything. If it weren't for Microsoft none of you would even have a job...and we'd still be using DOS and Apple IIe's with monochrome screens. And MAC is useless in a busiess environment, you can't program with it and you can't run a database on it. And no...none of the crap that MAC calls databases even qualify. Filemaker is not a database.

There is a difference between one who is a fan and one who is a zealot. =)

Think of it this way, if you will...

For those in the tech support industry (who aren't outsourced):

Windows is job security.

Norton is job security.

The good 'ol: "Thank you for calling technical support. Your ignorance is my job security."

Without the day-to-day people calling in and having issues with "stuck" (read: WTF is a 'stuck' e-mail?) e-mails because something is fubarred in Outlook Express or because Norton's SpamKiller has clogged up something, or McAfee is -- well, who really uses McAfee anyway? Pfft. But you, hopefully, get my drift...

This is what makes the world tick. Tick, tick, tick, tock, boooooom.

Things aren't revolutionary on the internet; they are evolutionary. We should all just get over it.

Man I love watching everyone bicker about this stuff as if they had nothing better to do.

You are guilty of impatience!

Go to jail, naughty double-clicker!

First, Linux users be quiet, you have no say in this issue, since you aren't playing in the mainstream corporate desktop space (market numbers don't lie, you're a minority, get over it)

Ironically this is a case of the pot, calling the kettle 'black'. Having worked in the IT field for decades, I have watched both products (Windows and NAV) grow from excellent beginnings, to now fighting tooth and nail over product space. Sadly this bodes ill for the PC industry as a whole since the ultimate goal now seems to be the almighty dollar, not producing better, safer, more effective tools for the end users.

I am disturbed by the number users bashing NAV on this rather than Microsoft, as (IMHO) you would think that a company with the resources of MS would have recognized a company the size of Symantec (NAV) and its extremely wide-spread use on desktop PC's, and not deploy a patch like this.

And for all you people screaming "its beta, you shouldn't use it..." Go run all the 'latest recommended patches' from MS, and voila! MSAS gets installed (remember, end-users are not as savvy as people in the IT field, they believe MS has only their best interest at heart, and don't know to uncheck a box based on our blogs)

Is it Microsoft's job to bend and work around 3rd party software to make sure everything is kosher?

I don't believe it is. Why should Microsoft be responsible for patching this soley (if that was really the case), or even be under fire for this?

Sure, there is probably concerns of conspiracy and all the nonsense that rolls around with all the bigwig companies, but that's still no excuse to place blame soley on Microsoft, or even in part!

If I understand correctly, they are both working together to fix the problem at hand. Regardless, I still don't believe an operating system should bend and tweak itself due to 3rd party software that is wide-spread across home PC users and the corporate desktop users...

"Microsoft proponents usually make their cases against enterprise Linux by parroting market research. That's like playing with a stacked deck. Finding market research firms not beholden to Microsoft's big purse is like drawing an ace to complete your royal flush. It's possible, but the odds are against you." -- Jan Stafford

i had norton on my computer and it kelp shuting down deleated it out and went to
mcafee and i have had no further priblems
thanks for the up date on this it does make sence and it shows that some company's are hideing the real truth about some of thier products. thanks again

Guess this is one way to get rid of your competition, just declare them malicious.

What's next?

>Symantec and Norton are such crappy products. I'm >guessing people knew something was wrong once >their systems started running faster, shortly after >Symantec software was removed.

>Posted by: Eric | February 13, 2006 08:47 AM

Ha Ha Ha! MS destroyed the biggest virus of them all.

I had a group have the MS anti-spyware find the Sav as a password stealer as well, as i read over this article, to all the linux users that bash MS, the only reason MS has so many problems is so many are working with MS everyday, if 200 million where using linux then we would see the same thing happen, virus writers are attacking whats on most desktops not the OS itself, it would be useless to write a virus for linux OS, it would only infect 9 people. That would be a waste of their time.

I really hope Microsoft is going to fix this soon; a message like "Now go buy a REAL antivirus" will do.

Firstly MS Anti spyware is not a "2 week beta" its prev name was Giant Antispyware which had a very good reputation.

Secondly, Any user or sys admin running Nortons should have his ass kicked, Dont get me wrong I used to love Nortons stuff back in the DOS days.. especially Nortons Utilities but quite frankly in my opinion running nortons anti virus is as bad or worse than actually getting a virus on a machine.

The first thing I do when a machine comes into the workshop that has nortons is to disable or remove it completely and load E Trust instead.

The situation is getting so bad that some retailers are explicity denying all claims if nortons has been installed and charging the client for repairs under warrenty if norton has been installed.

My favourite Repair report:

1. Removed Junk (Nortons antivirus)
2. Installed Etrust
3. Loaded Updates
4. Loaded MS Anti Spyware

System Tested - No erros

Something to think about ... Microsoft is releasing their own version of antivirus this late spring. Is it a coincidence that their anti-spyware program is corrupting their biggest competitor? Hmmm...

No doubt this is a big botch by MS, but Norton's 2005 product really is as horrible as people say. I don't really know if it's virus protection is that bad or not (I'm sure all of them miss some viruses), but it's a terrible hog and uninstalling it can be very painful.

I've been running Mcafee Enterprise (7 and 8) in conjunction with MS Anti-spyware since the week MS's product was released and it seems to be a pretty good combo. My company even has these both running on one customer's citrix servers, and while not completly pain-free, it's easier to maintain then without MS's product.

You get what you pay for (and deserve the results) Norton has been usefull over the years but is now (IMO) not the best option. If you use Beta software, don't complain if it goes wrong. (User beware, you were warned in the install text)
I use Windows XP on 6 computers and have had no infections. (Careful Computing) Mozilla and a decent firewall certainly help.
If you visit doubtful website, open suspect mail, have no security... heck... you deserve a little angst!

"it would be useless to write a virus for linux OS, it would only infect 9 people. That would be a waste of their time."

9 people?

Who are you kidding?

The "internet" is run primarily on embedded Linux/UNIX machines and a high percentage of *NIX servers... a devastating virus aimed at *NIX would be the end of the information super highway. (To some extent) And believe me, the threat is REAL.

Don't fool yourself by thinking Linux isn't exploited daily. It is. I don't believe it's the fact that there are "200 million" Windows desktops that attract the "hackers" and "malicious" people to direct their "skills" towards Microsoft...It's the end user's inexperience AND the easily flawed operating system at fault.

There are millions of Linux servers around...why are the "hackers" just attacking the Windows users instead of the Linux servers? Because the administrator of the Linux machines generally know what they are doing when it comes to security and stability. There are flaws in both worlds. Surviving is up to who ends up being the best at keeping up with technology, (education), and utilizing information properly.

Again, the topic has been strayed away from.

Sorry.

Ive just un installed MS Onecare as I could not solve a conflict it created.I must say that Clyde Wong from MS support got back to me within 30 minutes of my mailing tech support.A trojan if ever there was one..I loaded NAV2006 and am quite happy with it..Im now amazed at reading the above posts slamming NAV.
Im not a fundy when it comes to computors and try my best at protecting my system as best I can.Conundrum..Do I now uninstall NAV and go elsewhere??Is this premature panic on my part??
Ill follow this with baited breath..

Sorry, I had only half the thread. It has become a Norton bash and "viva la Linux" discussion.
The real issue is, should MS address a false hit whether the product is beta or not? The answer is certainly a resounding YES!!! Judging by some posts this has already been done. MS, go say "sorry Norton". Else we may be forgiven for a small thought that it may not have been an accident. Now consider this, you buy a PC with Windows installed. Cost of Windows is AU$130(Home) Norton costs AU$50-100 each year. Question??? Who benefits the most from security breaches, virus, spyware etc? Microsoft? Hardly they made a once off sale and are expected to support it for the next 10 years. Wake up you lot and start looking at the big(ger) picture.
My spin on Linux? Its very nice, but finicky to install and use. Infinitely less people can help you with it if you are not an experienced user. Untill the install is easier and drivers can be easily updated, Bill (Gates) has little to worry about.
Before all you Linux heads go and get upset, I have 25 years in computing and still consider Linux to be more difficult to install and maintain. I do like the look and feel of Ubuntu, and some of the others I have used, but they are all not very user friendly.
If you continue to write to this thread, how about discussing how MS should react to the reported issue.
Quote**** According to several different support threads over at Microsoft's user groups forum, the latest definitions file from Microsoft "(version 5805, 5807) detects Symantec Antivirus files as PWS.Bancos.A (Password Stealer)."

Now just as a favour, since I have no time to write a malware, please delete all the files from your computer right after you email your friends to do the same. That would be grand....
C:>

Also, on Linux there is not so much professional software as on Windows, and if there is, support isn't well handled.
Linux on servers, not worstations, because it's not ment to be desktop OS anyways. That's only wishful thinking.

Sorry about my last comment. I'm just a moron.

Yea,me too..............

Norton is being flagged because it uses rootkit stealth technology to disguise files from the Windows API so they don't get deleted.

I am so glad to see there are other options OTHER than NAV. It is a shame that MS has a bug that causes this problem yet i wonder which is at fault: the virus app or the anti-spyware app?

Again, thanks to bloated-resource-ware like Symantec's NAV (and Adobe products...), small programmers can now provide us with smaller, faster and better products (NOD32, Avast, Kapersky,...) than the $50/year Norton problems.

"Which broke first, the software or the hardware?"

Eddie,

Could you explain how this is a Microsoft bug?

I was experiencing a general slow-down in my computer and problems with Outlook taking forever to delete or open an email. I removed Symantec AV entirely via a manual process available on the web and "Eureka", my computer runs better and Outlook is suddenly working correctly. I think anyone with Symantec AV should take a careful look at their computer function to determine if this program is interfering with its performance.

So ah yeah I run SAV corp 8.1.1 and M$A$ on my winxp home sp2 laptop (HP PAVilion DV4000) and my winxpx64 pro pc is running SAVCorp 10.?.?.? for x64 and M$A$. uptime on the pc is now at 175 days + some hours and sec's, the thing can't quit never had a problem with it gaming etc... and the laptop has been on since i bought it yesterday (2/13/06)at about 6pm. it's about midnight 18 hours later I got rid of the bs apps and icons installed all updates from windows update then sav 8.1.1 and no probs.. the last pc ran SAV 7.?.? no probs for about 200 days of uptime before we lost power from the hurricanes.. I think the problems people are having is because of irresponsible or uneducated tinkering with the pc ..And keep in mind that the AV software is only going to catch things after it's installed, installing on an infected pc is futile unless you clean the drive first on an uninfected pc... Best bet is to protect the thing from the get-go and keep it up to date!!!

I have just got access to a fix for this. It is on the Symantec FTP website. All you need to do is run the program and restart the PC. If you are running a managed version, you will probably have to go onto the System Centre Console, delete the old PC and connect the new one to the appropriate policy.

https://fileshare.symantec.com
username: AntiSpyware_Clean_Repair_Tool
password: P@ssw0rd!

In order to remove Norton from your system you do not need to sift through the registry deleting keys here and there as the article above says. You can simply use the SymNRT tool to remove any traces of Norton.

Obviously FRED doesn't have a clue about Linux...

I never used Norton and never plan to. I use McAfee. I use three of their products. Antispyware,Firewall Plus and antiVirus. From what I read on Norton and McAfee. From what I read McAfee was more highly effective then Norton. I researched alot of products and I chose McAfee to use.

M$ Anti-spyware BETA is in fact a program written by another company that M$ bought for themselves. The software the other company released was NOT in BETA. M$ is certainly rewritting it with themselves in mind. Its a shame too, as it was a great tool before M$ got a hold of it.

As for NAV/SAV, I use SAV and have for a while, I don't see it eating a tremendous amount fo resource, while I do agree the other non-corporate software they sell to end users is mostly BLOATWARE.

After reading all of the above. . . an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Please, everyone: Proofread your contributions before submitting.

Love you guys--Del (Using a windows box with XPSP2 and Mac Powerebook interchangably with an 82-year-old head.

Is there a fix for this Microsoft Anti-Spyware problem yet? We're one of the WinDozers that tried the anit-spyware and lost some registry files.

This is Micro$oft trying to eradicate competition as usual. They'll claim it's a "mistake" and a lot of people won't bother going through everything to make it work again so they'll stick to M$ software. Reminds me of the classic eradication of Netscape in the 90s.

Something similar happened to me over the weekend, although it didn't actually disable NAV. I thought it was the IE7 Beta that caused it rather than the MS Anti-Spy program though. Hard to tell because I ran Anti-Spy and downloaded IE7 at nearly the same time. I unloaded IE7, rebooted with no luck. Rebooted a second time and NAV appears to be up to date and functioning just as it was before the incident.

***Attention***
If you are having troubles uninstalling Norton you will need to download the Norton removal tool named "NoNav2.1.exe". In order to download this program your going to need to call Symantec and have them give you a password and username to download from a secured ftp server. NoNav2.1.exe will auto remove all Norton traces including registry keys. This deep removal will allow one to reinstall the Norton client on their pc.

Just Remove Firewall From Computer Hardwear I do not like Firewall It's no good

Just out of all the message tha is being posted has anyone think of this if M$ can do this to Norton will they do the same to everyone else in the Antivirus area. As if my source is correct the main reason for most of the software that is not being certified by M$ they will have todo reverse engineering just to work with the M$ OS, and if you were to do that then as and when ever there is a new OS release they'll have to release a new version.
As this is just the many ways the Evil comes out from their dent to kill.
Hope this may not get anyone angry or be though as to support anyone. It's just a fact of life that we may have forgoten after many years (eg: How did M$ Win came from? Do think about it)

I know you guys don't use GMT - but how are your posts dated February 11, 2006 ????????????????
Another NAV feature perhaps.
NAV 2005 was a disaster and as for Ghost V9 aaargh!

Not surprised!!!

http://www.spywareremove.com

Real problem with first NAV 2005 then worst with NAV 2006. System crashed when scanning. Technicians not much help. They don't read my e-mail sound like a computer writing back. Trouble with liveupdate not installing or else having old 2005 software loaded. NAV 2006 : had to remove and reinstall several times. It cannot send a suspect virus package via quarantine and e mail; it keeps bouncing back from this fancy submit progam and it is the only way to send it outside a floppy by mail.
One problem after the other...if buying make sure you have disk sent to you or buy it in store; downloading seem to have problems. I don't believe I have virus but NAV made a some files corrupt; even fowl by high speed connection which I had to reinstall. Symantec better smarten up. A very complicated system to operate.....

hello iw abt a businees partner pls mail me on this samlex23@yahoo.co.uk

I bought my oldc omputer when my office udgraded our system yat the offce.I can not remove the symantec virus because the password that our office administrator is incorrect and it won't let me delete it..Can any help Me?

I bought my oldc omputer when my office udgraded our system yat the offce.I can not remove the symantec virus because the password that our office administrator is incorrect and it won't let me delete it..Can any help Me?

Been running norton's for years, no problems, no infections, still use IE and Xp, tried various other programs but had a lot more trouble with those (especially the so called free anti virus programs that leave a lot to be desired as is evidenced by my increasing business fixing pc's that have become infected). The end user always comes back to windows because it is easy to use, they don't want to learn how to do anything but use the mouse and the programs for windows. Linux is fun but not for a home user and anyone who suggests it is needs to spend some time teaching home users.

ive tried both NAV and mcafee and i feel mcafee is easier to use than NAV its easier to download and easier to activate and it does a good job of dealing with infected systems.norton internet security 2005 is a waste of money especially since you dont need all the bells and whistles that come with it you can get programs that work just as good for free. Ad aware and spybot do a better job of removing spy ware then NIS and theres tons of free firewalls or you can just use the one that comes with service pack 2. itll do a good enough job and its free with SP2. so why spend 70-100 dollars on a program that wont do half the job as a bunch of free programs?i think its a waste of money and time to buy and download a program that only removes half the stuff that other,cheaper programs do ive had norton on my computer for a week and in that week it missed over a hundred viruses and spyware then i down loaded ad aware and spy bot and they totally cleaned out my computer and i also downloaded a trial version of mcafees virus scan and it did such a wonderful job i now own a copy of the software my self and have recommended it to friends. even though NIS runs a scan before it downloads i find that it misses alot of stuff especially since they create the programs a year before they release them,so theyre outdated by the time you get it on your computer.and it took me 10minutes to set up norton,where as it took me 2 to set up mcafee and the other programs i used on my computer and i feel that microsoft is doing a great job admitting that they screwed up and made windows so vulnerable to attacks by releasing patches to plug up the holes hopefully Vista will be even better with security.and we wont have to download so many patches.

Norton AntiVirus™ 2005

Read your page following 15 March Norton update, and my inability to access aol. However, until then my recently purchased NAV 2006 seems to have removed all viruses and adware, and annoying web searches etc. After reading the note about Ad aware and spybot doing a better job, I ran these and Norton. After three minutes the score was Adaware 4 registry entries, Spybot nil, Norton nil. Maybe Norton will catch up! Oh this submission is from my desktop; my notebook still cannot access aol because the notes in their press release re the aol problem are incorrect!

In regards to AntiVirus Programs, I myself have finally came to the decision of choosing McAfee for my computer. All in all, as a person who has owned/own many computers and a person who sells computers for a living, all other antivirus programs have turned out in someway to always conflict me and leave me no choice other than to reinstall my OS and LOSE EVERY BIT OF DATA. Before Mcafee I had Norton installed on my computer, and I use to think that Norton was the best of the best. But even with Norton there were some programs I was not able to run on my computer because Norton choose to think that it was a virus, leaving me unable to use that program I had used just fine before and after choosing Norton. Norton wasnt even able to provide me a way of being able to choose whether or not I could run any program on my computer. In Norton eyes, if it suspects anything is a virus on your computer its automatically is removed No Questions asked!

My website dont currently offer any software to our customers, though we do offer alot of top brands on notebooks and other electroncis at discounted prices. Antivirus software should be available soon for our customers.

If you care to visit what we have to offer you can visit us by:

http://urlaptop.com

scoobie doo

LINUX, dont make me laugh.. Its the same old story that UNIX/X-Windows users have been telling for decades.. Its a Microsoft world, get used to it !

How on earth do you get rid of NAV on a computer? NAV keeps popping up to tell me I have to renew. Help!

"Heh. Linux is only free if your time is worthless. Its stupid to advocate Linux for day to day use as its un-userfriendly to the general populous and lacking most major commercial software is just illogical.He does advocate a Mac which is a viable alternative but still often lacks certain software. Finger pointing goes all around but the insecurity of Windows is partly the failure of its own success. Too many people trying to exploit it."
WOW, are you clueless!! I've been running Linux for 4 years now and also never get any problems either... But as far as time issue, Linux has that beat now too! I can install a linux box in 30 minutes, and everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, works!! No screwing around with drivers or any of that windows crap! It is the most user friendly OS out there now! Try that with WinBlows... takes at least 90 minutes to get that POS up and running anywhere near what my linux is doing in 30! Waste of time! HA AND.. Linux actually works, and gets online, on a machine built in 1996! You can't even put Win95 on that and get it online these days!

I want mp3 player. What will advise?

Hi
To write the letter, it is necessary ...

Linux and Unix based OS's are safer not just "cause they are not part of a culture of monopoly" they are safer because of the OS architecture is designed to prevent thoughtless ineptness and are compartmentalized so a program (ie,virus-malware) can not run freely in the OS system. Thus if every computer in the world had Linux as OS there would be viruses but in a far less number that in the Window based system of today. And as for the writer who indicates that Linux is "only free if one time is worthless". Then I say that it is free and the time one spends is knowlege time that increases on wellbeing and intellect versus wasted time
cleaning a Windows system, installing anti-viruses, and buying (besides spending tons of money)worthless fixes for the Windows system. Oh- For the writer who said that he has been using windows for 7 years without a virus- well maybe you got tons of keyloggers or he only uses his computer to check the weather.

NORTON INTERNET SECURITY 2005 SUCKS ITS THE WORST ANTYVIRUS IVE EVER HAD

Try shoving a dildo up your ass it's more interesting

if you want to be safe on the net, use some Anti-Spyware at http://www.yaodownload.com/utilites/antivirus/

you can remove spyware in order to anti-spyware. use SpyZooka carry out this dream.
http://www.yaodownload.com/utilites/security-encryption/spyzooka/

So I have Windows and NAV. Came time to renew my NAV, it asked for an ID # which I didn't have. Gave a phone number to call. Called that, got a recording with a different number. Called that, got a recor