I am fine with the spurious quote's premise if it is broadened to include other government officials, such as the Secretary and under secretaries of Defense, the vice president, and the president. Their failing to provide sufficient troops, materials, funding, a clear end game strategy and other examples of ineptitude and mismanagement has demoralized and lowered the morale of the troops far more than congress ever could. I know what would boost morale: how about Bush's and Cheney's kids and their other service aged and able relatives donning desert camis and lending a hand. Oh, I am sorry, they have other priorities.

Impeach Young. No representative who loves Democracy throws around fabricated quotes by Presidents; or advocates violence against those who exercise their right to free speech.

Young's problem is obviously with democracy, not with anti-war sentiments. Maybe Putin would be able to find a home for Young and his ilk.

Impeach Young. No representative who loves Democracy throws around fabricated quotes by Presidents; or advocates violence against those who exercise their right to free speech.

Young's problem is obviously with democracy, not with anti-war sentiments. Maybe Putin would be able to find a home for Young and his ilk. With Young's "Bridges to Nowhere" I'm sure he'll fit in with Putin's Kleptocracy.

"Abe Lincoln said You can fool some of the all of the time and those are the one's I concentrate on."

George W. Bush - 2000

"However, he continues to totally agree with the message of the statement."

so which is it? you agree with the message - that anti-war dissenters be punished - or you don't.

Young is an idiot backpaddling as fast as he can. hopefully his credibility, what little there was, is extinguished.

Why would he use a quote advocating the hanging of congressmen and then say he himself was not advocating the hanging of someone? As Abraham Lincoln once said, "I think we just found someone who doesn't like democracy and also is a liar."

pelosi, murtha, hoyer, reid and the rest deserve a one way ticket to ClubGitmo

Sounds like Young could use an attitude adjustment if not a reading and journalism course.

It seems some basic understanding of what it means to be an American is once again in dispute. This is not the first time the authoritarians in this country have forgotten that America was midwifed by the energy created by a dispute with Royal authority and claims of infallibility. In the period following World War I our government enforced so-called "loyalty" with hard prison time for dissenters. The list of such outrages is long. Democracy, liberty, freedom - words, words, words. They are meaningless without ordinary Americans fighting every day to give substance to ideas. Don Young is just another right wing ignoramus lacking in basic Americanism. He and all the other proto-fascists must be opposed by the rest of us, in what is a thankless but necessary task - the preservation of good old-fashioned patriotism, which is nothing more (or less) than honoring the spirit of our founding mission statement. We must be allowed life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, and ignorant congressmen can just pound sand.

I just love it when these Representatives go live on TV and make a total ass out of themselves. It seems to play well back home as demostrated by that Georgia peach, Lynne Westmoreland. He was on Colbert and made a TOTAL ass out of himself and I see he was returned by the voters of his district. He supported the 10 Commandents in all public places and could only name 3 of them. HA HA HA

What's wrong with these people who equate the Iraq war with supporting our Leader in a time of war. It would be a time of war if we were actively chasing Osma Bin Laden Bush. Instead we are in an oil war sponsored by the Bush crime family and a military who can not say no. What is victory in Iraq??? More Iraqi oil for Mobile???

President Bush's grandfather Prescott Bush was a known Nazi supporter. He made a lot of money off of WWII.

Anyone as stupid as Rep Don Young should be serving in Iraq instead of the House. All these CHICKENHAWKS wanting more war without questioning what is even happening. Can you imagine if Bill Clinton had "lost" 8 BILLION DOLLARS like the Bush crime family did in Iraq?? Not even a peep from the MSM who seem scared of covering the criminal activities of the Bush crime family. IMPEACH BUSH AND CHENEY

Can you imagine the outrage that would explode if John Kerry used an imaginary Lincoln quote and called for Republicans to be hanged? Talk radio would go crazy. It would be on every news station. There would be banner headlines on every newspaper site, including the Washington Post, and Kerry would have to apologize and resign.

But if Don "Bridge to Nowhere" Young does it? Not a big deal. It gets a minor mention on a blog about "behind the scenes in Washington." Young's spokeswoman issues an unapologetic brushoff. The phony quote doesn't even get a correction in the Washington Times.

Is it that Republicans do a better job of manipulating the media with manufactured outrage, or do we just have lower expectations of Republican honesty?

Ahh, yet another manufactoid launched into Republican talking points by Insight magazine. After the 'Obama's Madrassa' embarrassment, it seems that Insight is still plagued by journalistic myopia.

Figures. The republicans are such a lot of intelectual history buffs. Reminds me of a college fund-raiser I used to know: He's make up a "quote from the bible" and spout it out to support his position. When reminded that "Jesus never said that", his typical response was, "Well, he should have!" Liars, fundraisers and republicans have no souls.

If Young really cared about troop morale he would be railing against the inept management of the GWB team. What's this nonsense about Humvees not having the best available armor until this summer?

Unfortunately, it was clowns like Young who voted against giving our National Guard units the best available body armor before being shipped to Iraq a few years ago.

Then there's that business about not-preparing for the post-invasion period.

Inept management and poor planning impact the lives of soldiers in tangible ways. Non-binding resolutions and open debate do so only indirectly.

So, not only did he lie, he plagerized the lie. How republican.

go here to hear the live debate
http://www.npr.org/asxfiles/news/20070213.news.iraqdebate.asx

I'm so very, very sick of this. The stifling of dissent is anethema to the very idea of what it means to be an American, and yet the Republic party can't get enough of it.

Why don't they all just get on a boat and sail back to England, since they seem to love aristocracy and absolute power so much.

Abraham Lincoln was one of the finest writers -- surely the finest among presidents -- this country has produced. No one who has read at least a few paragraphs Lincoln's work could imagine that drab and lifeless sentence came from him.

I cannot yell "FIRE!" in a movie theater and expect to calmly walk away unpunished in a court of law. But this so-called patriotic Young can? Kiss your butt goodbye America, your toast.

Now I recognize that the Republicans do not havbe a monopoly on stupidity in the political sector but they sure do their best to make any thinking human being believe so. From the internet challenged Ted Stevens to the anti-Muslim moron Virgil Goode to Ohio's Jean Schmidt (who implied John Murtha is a traitor), the Republicans have out done themselves in the public arena. The level of discourse is stunningly vapid, fueled of course by the righty wing wind bags who spew lies unapologetically. My guess is the moron Young listend to Savage, Limbaugh or some other intellectually challenged blow hard and of believed what he heard.

He should be impeached just for being so stupid.

And while we are at it, let's bring back the Fairness Doctrine. Times to get the rightwing liars and hypocrites off the air waves. We need to protect the dummies like Young from themselves.

Michael

With malice towards none and charity to all, it is my considered view that Don Young is an idiotic, incompetent liar.

Who cares if Abe ever said it or not? It's a horrible quote to use, true or not, by anyone that supports a healthy democracy.

"Who cares if Abe ever said it or not? It's a horrible quote to use, true or not, by anyone that supports a healthy democracy."
---
Err ... because in life we try to rely on facts, not falsehoods. It is important to understand and appreciate the difference between 2+2=4 and 2+2=5,678. Lord help us.

Gosh. Where was congressman Young and his fabricated quote when he was needed - when Republicans were damaging the morale of US troops sent to the Balkans and Somalia.

First, Congress must pass a tepid resolution of "No Confidence". Then it must refuse to let any funds to be used for enlarging this monstrous war. And, finally, Bush, Cheney et al must be charged with treason,(see membership list of the Project for a New American Century..Bush brought nearly all of the members into the Departments of State and Defense). Of note, and ignored so far: Congress has the full right to start and to END any war, it's part of the Constitution, the document that Bush et al keep trying to shred. And will, with the continued help of the far right members of the Senate and the Supreme Court.

Ah yes, the old Insight fabrication, promoted by the Moonie Times as a quote, and then spread by the echo chamber. This is getting to be a familiar scenario.

Can't blame Young too much, last time I was in Alaska, he got in trouble for cussing out a room full of elementary students. But AK would vote for a yellow dog before a democrat for house and senate, so after using the f word on 11 year olds he was re-elected.
But I think the quote is interesting, what would America be like if those who opposed the war were hung? Lots more living room, for sure, after you hang 60% of the population. It would make the immigration debate less important, cause we would need more laborers. We could get rid of the constitution and replace it with the bible as the law of the land, cause the only folks left would be holy rollers...

I support our troops by praying for them because that's the only help I can give them...Halliburton and Cheney have taken 10 Billion dollars of my taxes which could have been used to supply the soldiers w/ armor, and the Iraqi people w/ water and power, and those selfless men and women in the military w/ educations so they, too could have options and other priorities other than serving the evil Masters of War...and put it into their bank accounts, and their Hummers, and their children's education....and left our boys and girls w/out a prayer.
So pray for these kids...they think they're protecting your rights...when actually, they are protecting only the evil doers rights. And the rights do exist - to Free Speech - witness Limbaugh, and all who quote him -, and the clown from Alaska who wants to murder people who don't agree with those who defend evil -, and Freedom of the Press - witness The Washington TIMES ( not POST), which is a Rev. Moon right wing rag given equal time and billing from tv to congress -, and the Freedom to Worship, as long as it is a Christian mix of hipocracy and patriotic profit sharing.
Pray to your higher power to protect all citizens who get in the way of warmongers. Join me in defending humanity from godless insanity. PEACE.

I don't see what the fuss is all about. It is standard practice to hang or shoot anyone who disagrees with official policy in the governments of Communist Cuba, North Korea, Stalinist Russia, under the rule of Pol Pot and the list goes on. Why should we in the great country of the United States not exercise our rights against those who would undermine our policies? This is the rule of law!Let me quote our great leader President Bush "You are either with us or against us!" If you are against us you are a traitor and should be shot!Seig Heil!

anyone else alarmed that a congressman, with the world's most extensive research tools available in the Congressional Research Service, would make such a blatant and horrible mistake by using a newspaper as a source for historical information? It makes you wonder if half the stuff in the Congressional Record isn' made up or derived from questionable sources.
Don Young should know better and his press secretary - who is probably responsible for the comments Young delivered, shoulod know better too.

Politicians are the world's worst abusers of Rogets and other "quote compilations." They find a quote they like, and they use it, never having read the original source material and having absolutely no idea of the context (or whether the quote is even genuine, for that matter.)

And why should they? After all, reading "the whole book" is something that only pointy headed, ivory tower, elite, effete intellectuals do. Much better to just go on being an ignorant moron pounding your fist loudly on your podium and proclaiming that you offer good, honest common sense solutions to simple problems.

Abe Lincoln once said "Don Young sucks". :)

I'm fine with hanging those who undermine military morale during wartime, because that would definitely include the repuglican party. They are the ones who sent troops into battle without proper armor, some as many as 3 and 4 turns of duty. That is appalling. They are the ones who cut funding for the troops' medical care. mr young has a point.

What I have never been able to understand is how can people be so gullible. When it comes to a party that will enrich themselves at the expense of the poor,cut poor people medicaid and make them paid more for prescription drugs speaks volume about a party that; I could never embrace but they are christains and those on the christain right never open their mouths to say anything. They are against abortion, but never say anything about the 10 million kids that have no health insurance.They are christains but never say anthing about those in the party who have been married 3 or 4 times. "It is do as I say not as I do." When people don't do what they say or want then they are traitors, or should be held for treason. This Republican party and talk radio have done a beautiful job indoctrinating it's base. I will give them that!

Has anyone else noticed that virtually all of these posters despise Young and Bushco, but the Washington Post keeps supporting the Bush administration with incompetent or outright dishonest reporting? There's something wrong with this picture...

Not to mention the editorials...

Two points, in two parts, both of which are addressed at a diary I posted this morning at Daily Kos:

First to fellow readers and commenters, if you are as disgusted as I am by Rep. Young's words on the floor last night, then please consider contacting your Representative and asking them to support censure of Rep. Don Young for slandering President Lincoln by falsely putting anti-American quotes in his mouth, and for impugning the patriotism of the majority of Americans who oppose the President's Iraq strategy.

Many progressives and liberals complain about the right's ability to gin up fake controversies and surface them in the mainstream media (think of forcing Dick Durbin to tearfully apologize on the Senate floor in 2005 for daring to say that we shouldn't torture people because that makes us little better than the Nazis, or just in the past several days forcing the resignation of the Edwards Campaign's female bloggers). But the strategy works because they make enough noise that it forces the mainstream media to pay attention. It has become clear that the silent majority of Americans who have come to oppose the Iraq war, and who still support fundamental American principles like freedom of speech, need to generate a similar amount of noise if we are to preserve our freedom and our representative system of government.

Further proof that the Washington Times is not, in fact, a newspaper.

Now for Part Two, directed to Ms. Akers: What's wrong with you? I mean, really and c'mon, what's wrong with you?

I'm not sure what's more intensely disturbing: that a sitting member of the House of Representatives appears on the House floor to call, by way of a Washington-Times-manufactured "Abraham-Lincoln-channels-the-spirit-of-Benito-Mussolini" quote, for members of Congress who oppose the President's current Iraq plan to be "arrested, exiled, or hanged," or that the only attention it gets in the mainstream media is in the WaPo's online site in your blog, where its treated in the same cutesy manner as one would expect an item in Roll Call's HOH to be (Oh, look, Rep. Gingrey shaved his mustache -- and he joked on Fox News that actually HE'S Anna Nicole Smith's baby's father!!! Oh hohohohohoh LOLOLOLOL ROTFLMAO!!!!!).

OK, let's unpack your post:

>>> During House floor debate on the Iraq War resolution Thursday, Rep. Don Young (R-Alaska) fell into a trap that's caught plenty of other Iraq war supporters -- misquoting Abraham Lincoln as advocating the hanging of lawmakers who undermine military morale during wartime.

[See, it's an easy mistake to make, sort of like stubbing your toe. No biggie.]

>>>Young certainly added a sizzle to an otherwise fairly bland debate by raising the specter of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and her party faithful being arrested for opposing President Bush's troop surge.

Because all that talk about our troops dying for no good reason and about the incompetence of the Bush Administration was so booooooooring. Young was just trying to make it fun, that's all.

>>>The only problem: Lincoln never said such a thing.

OK, fine, props to her for actually stating the truth even when it contradicts something a republican says. (Although the fact that we feel obligated to thank and congratulate Washington journalists for stating a true fact -- that is, for DOING YOUR JOB -- shows you just how low mainstream American journalism has sunk.)

>>>Shortly after he left the House floor Thursday, Young found out that -- woops -- he had mistakenly put words in Abe's mouth. Young's spokeswoman, Meredith Kenny, said the congressman took the quote directly from an article he read in The Washington Times on Tuesday, which as of Thursday had not been corrected.

"Woops." See, it's all just good clean fun. Tee-hee-hee.

>>>"Now that he's been informed these are not the actual words of Lincoln, he will discontinue attributing the words to Lincoln.

OK, so I guess at least he's realized the error of his ways then, right?

>>>However, he continues to totally agree with the message of the statement,"

Guess not. OK, so even though he concedes Lincoln didn't say it, nevertheless Representative Young DOES believe that "Congressmen who willfully take action during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs, and should be arrested, exiled or hanged." Wow, I'm glad he's going to stop slandering Lincoln but that's still really scary.

>>>And no, Kenny said, Rep. Young was "not advocating the hanging of Democrats."

Oh, well I'm glad we've cleared that up. So I guess that means he just advocates arresting or exiling them then. Those funny Republicans!!!

Thanks for your hard-hitting reporting on this, Ms. Akers. Boy, if your friends from Roll Call could see you now -- you've moved up in the world. By the way, is Rush Limbaugh still dating the President's daughter from 24? We all want to know!!!

They should be hung along with John Six of cowtownmusic.com

Packerland Progressive: Very good analysis.

What disturbed me most about Mary Ann's post was saying that "the ONLY problem" was that Lincoln didn't say it.

I think the notion that a member of Congress could suggest anyone who opposes the Bush administration's policies should be arrested, exiled or hanged would be an enormous problem even if Lincoln HAD said the original phrase.

Packerland Progressive: Very good analysis.

What disturbed me most about Mary Ann's post was saying that "the ONLY problem" was that Lincoln didn't say it.

I think the fact that a member of Congress can suggest anyone who opposes the Bush administration's policies should be arrested, exiled or hanged is an enormous problem in and of itself.

Congressman Young's egregious use of a totally fabricated quote from Abraham Lincoln saying that, "Congressmen who willfully take actions during wartime that damage morale and undermine the military are saboteurs and should be arrested, exiled, or hanged" sounds more like what Hitler, Stalin, or Mao Tse-tung would have said. Didn't King George arrest, imprison and hang American colonists who dissented against his policies and rule? Thank God for the colonists who dissented and founded the United States of America and who wrote the Constitution of the USA. In that document they made it unquestionably clear that citizens of the USA have the right to dissent and to "redress the government for their grievances." Members of congress are also citizens and are entitled to the same constitutional rights and protections as all other citizens. People like Rep. Young would, given the chance, strip those guranteed rights from our Constitution. They and their conservative right wingers are the Tory loyalists of our time. Given the opportunity, they would destroy our liberties, return us to the authoritarian rule of the wealthy and arrest and imprison dissenters and hold them indefinitely without their sixth - amendment right to legal representation and their right to habeas corpus. They would not be allowed to see anyone other than prison authorities and other govermental authorities. They would not even be allowed to see their families, and their families would not be told what happened to them. Actually the government can do all of that now anytime it wants, all in the name of national security. I have no doubt that the radical republicans who control that party would do all of the above and much more given the chance. So keep showing your true stripes all of you right wing conservatives. And to all of you moderates and liberals, you had better wake-up before it's too late to stop the Tories.
I am a veteran of the Vietnam War. I can tell you that my fellow airmen and I were never concerned about what congress and our congressmen were doing back in the USA. In fact, most of us could not have told you who our congressman or our senators were, and we certainly didn't keep up with what congress was doing. Our concerns were daily in nature - What were we having for chow? Were we going to receive mail from home, especially from our sweethearts? Was everybody back home doing well? Were we going to be on the list for orderly duties, and if so, what duties were we going to be performing? We also wanted to stay out of the way of our commanding officer, because he might find something wrong with our uniforms or our hair. We were concerned about our daily struggles, just like anybody else. Those, and other things were what occupied our minds from day to day. When we thought about the war, it was more in terms of when we were going home, especially if you were a short-timer. Otherwise, we did our duty as we were sworn to, and most of us served proudly. However, as we became older and wiser, a significant number of us began to question the war, and many of us discussed it in small groups and one-to-one. We were concerned about what the president and the secretary of defense were doing. It seemed to us that they were stuck on a war strategy that wasn't working and that they were too arrogant and too stubborn to admit it. And so, on they went as tens of thousands of young men and women in the US military forces were killed and maimed, and millions of Vietnamese people. Of course, they were concerned about that but not to the extent they would have been if their own children had been serving in Vietman or were subject to being sent there. So all of you right-wing Republican, Tory loyalists just keep on supporting GBW's failed war strategy. The blood of thousands of US military men and women and tens-of-thousands of Iraqi civilians will be on your hands. I hope you can live with that.

As the person who originally discovered that J. Micheal Waller invented this Lincoln "quote" and brought my discovery to Brooks Jackson, Executive Director of factcheck.org, I'm in a unique position to poke fun at Waller on his blogs here:

http://fourthworldwar.blogspot.com/2007/02/hanging-offense-part-2.html#comments

Cliff Hancuff

As the person who originally discovered that J. Michael Waller invented this Lincoln "quote" and brought my discovery to Brooks Jackson, Executive Director of factcheck.org, I'm in a unique position to poke fun at Waller on his blogs here:

http://fourthworldwar.blogspot.com/2007/02/hanging-offense-part-2.html#comments

Cliff Hancuff

On the subject of undermining troops' morale, what about being sent to the hell-hole that is Iraq based upon fabricated "evidence", having tours of duty extended, lacking armor for vehicles, with no clear attainable mission, commanded by a man who will stay the course, "even if my only supporters are Laura and Barney". It's a wonder the troops have any morale.

On the subject of undermining troops' morale, what about being sent to the hell-hole that is Iraq based upon fabricated "evidence", having tours of duty extended, lacking armor for vehicles, with no clear attainable mission, commanded by a man who will stay the course, "even if my only supporters are Laura and Barney" (I think the dog is having second thoughts - Barney, I mean). It's a wonder the troops have any morale.

Hang 'em all and start over, Dems Reps, all of em.. They've lost sight of their duties anyway.

i recently came across this Lincoln quote (actually a proclamation he issued during the war) this past weekend when thinking about a friend's sermon on "A President's Faith". I thought it was really relevant for all sides of the political spectrum as they debate the future of this war and the divisions in our nation.

"It is the duty of nations as well as of men to own their dependence upon the overruling power of God, and to confess their sins and transgressions in humble sorrow, yet with assured hope that genuine repentance will lead to mercy and pardon, and to recognize the sublime truth, announced in Holy Scripture, and proven by all history, that those nations only are blessed whose God is the Lord. And, insomuch (sic) as we know that by His divine law nations, like individuals, are subjected to punishments and chastisement in this world, may we not justly fear that the awful calamity of civil war which now desolates the land may be but a punishment inflicted upon us for our presumptuous sins, to the needful end of our national reformation as a whole people? We have been the recipients of the choicest bounties of Heaven; we have been preserved these many years in peace and prosperity; we have grown in numbers, wealth and power as no other nation has ever grown. But we have forgotten God. We have forgotten the gracious hand which has preserved us in peace and multiplied and enriched and strengthened us, and we have vainly imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own. Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become too self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to the God that made us. It behooves us, then, to humble ourselves before the offended power, to confess our national sins and to pray for clemency and forgiveness." [March 30, 1863]