As "outrageous" as the Ad might have sounded, the message was unfortunately, true.

May I add that, if Cheney were anyone else, we would not be talking about war with Iran, and we probably did not invade Iraq in the first place. AND gas prices would not be $3.25 a gallon.

Gee, the nurses are right. If Cheney was your average Joe off the street, good-bye and sympathy to his family. Well, politicians have priorities over the common man and the medical field will cater to their needs (transplants and etc) so they will live longer and make our lives more miserable.

One has to wonder how much the American people have paid for the healthcare of a Vice President who is part, if not all, of an administration that vetoes Healthcare Bills for children because they are afraid that children from families that earn too much might be insured. Seems that families that earn so much would have insurance in the first place, wouldn't they. However, there is hope if only their children can make it long enough to become a Vice President.

It's true It's noy nearly as outragious as ads run by the Rove/Bush Repug's. Why not say: Cheney's Health care. Why is it wrong for America??

My brother-in-law, disabled for 15-years with similar cardiac problems as the VP, was expertly cared for under Medicare, Medigap and a team of the finest cardiologists in the state of IL. The man was an average-joe with absolutely NO resources or family other than ourselves. He lived in subsidized housing, made do on his Social Security and occasional family gifts - and THAT was all. What served him best was his attitude; he went after the services that he needed and NEVER waited around with his thumb in his mouth.

Stop whining people: if you need the best medical care, you WILL receive it in this fantastic nation - IF you go after it.

Glad for your brother, Terry. But I live in this fantastic nation, and I'm diabetic, and I can't afford the out-of-pocket expenses for the tests the doctors say I need. Sure, if I eventually need to be hauled to the emergency room because this stinking disease has progressed, I expect that they will treat me.

But I'd rather not get to that point. Ya understand????

I thought the same thing myself when I read that Cheney was hospitalized again. I'm glad the nurses bought the ad.

I am an RN and work in an Iowa nursing home. While I do not doubt the veracity of Mr. Dudas' story (in fact, I think it is an accurate one, although not complete), I see too many who do not get the kind of care that the VP enjoys. There are many obstacles to overcome in qualifying for Medicare, one of them illustrated in his letter, you must be extremely low income with little or no resources to get there. The uninsured person making middle class wages would have to bankrupt him or herself to qualify for Medicaid benefits. These are the people who, sadly, go without care, and I believe these are the people the ad was intended to focus on. You cannot "go after" that type of care if you don't meet the very strict guidelines, which I do not disagree with. It is just obvious to me that many people are going without care due to no fault of their own. There are many reasons that 47 million Americans are without health care. We need to get to work on finding out how we got into this mess and find a way to help our working poor get the health care they deserve and need in this country, the richest country ever. Right now this largesse is being poorly divided up. People with major medical problems account for over half the bankruptcies filed in the USA, and of these filers, nearly 75% had health insurance.

Lord Cheney of Dick is not to be ridiculed, not to be photographed, & not to be questioned. He may speak of his lesbian daughter, but her lifestyle is not to be uttered from the lips of any political pagan. Fear the Dick, for his schedule is secret and you not know where he may appear!

Terry Dudas, I disagree with your conclusion, "if you need the best medical care, you WILL receive it in this fantastic nation". For instance, a recent AP article summarized a recent finding that the "U.S. now trails 41 other nations in life expectancy".

A CNN article mentioned that "For decades, the United States has been slipping in international rankings of life expectancy, as other countries improve health care, nutrition and lifestyles. Countries that surpass the U.S. include Japan and most of Europe, as well as Jordan and the Cayman Islands."

For the report itself, visit http://tinyurl.com/23yn5q

Just go to the Emergency Room!

If you are talking about a means tested program, it's probably Medicaid, not Medicare. Medicaid is means tested, but to be eligible you must also either be aged, blind, disabled, a pregnant woman, or a child, or a caretaker relative. If you are between 21 and 65 and not in one of these categories, you can't be eligible. Also, going to an ER, if you can find one, is not the solution. ER care is very expensive compared to other care. And if you let a condition progress to the point of an emergency, it will require even more expensive care than would have been the case had it been treated in a timely manner. Furthermore, most hospitals are not obligated to treat the uninsured. Under EMTALA, a hospital has to stabilize the patient, but once the patient is stable, they can discharge him/her. Some hospitals (charity and public hospitals) will continue to treat the patient, but you may not find one near you.

Mr. Dudas' brother in law "was expertly cared for under Medicare." What the California Nurses Association supports is extending Medicare to everyone so that we can all get good treatment. So it seems to me he makes their point and CNA can rest its case.

The Lord Cheney of Dick has a medical staff that travels with him. This was revealed when he shot that guy in the face.

If the choice is quality health care for all or a dead dick cheney, I'll take a dead dick any day of the week.

Being an RN I have to say that it seems Mr. Dudas was more intent on defending a seriously broken system than facing the facts. I'm glad for his brother-in-law but his defense of this system in the face of the reality is tragic.

PV says to simply go to the Emergency Room.

Of course, if you own any real property, be sure to quickly sell it prior to entering the ER - As noted above, you will usually be charged far higher fees for every service rendered in the ER than anyone with medical insurance coverage - Several large hospital systems in the Portland, Oregon area have only ceased this practice because of class action law suits - In the event, you can not pay the bill, your property will be liened and foreclosure will not be far away. But, once on the street and in the mission system, you might be in better health for a while.

I wouldn't lift a finger to help Cheney if he fell down dead in front of me. I applaud the nurse's ad and hope others follow their lead. The health care situation in this nation is critical. Just ask anyone who has lost a job and is no longer covered by their employeer's medical insurance. What happens when they cannot afford to pay for medical insurance for their family, or must use up their savings, if they have any, to pay for COBRA. We are all at the mercy of a government that doesn't give a damn about the people who pay their salaries. They really believe the rest of us don't count. The disenfranchised millions in this country need help-they need medical insurance.

As usual, the measure of whether you care personally about something is whether you believe it's sound policy for the government to seize control of it, attempt to carry it out, and for politicians to get elected promising to give it away for "free".

Getting more and more America hooked on government is good for politicians, good for bureaucrats, and good for organized interest groups whose power and wealth grow with governments, such as unions (government-backed monopolies of labor providers, which in many states you are FORCED to join or give your own money to in tribute to get a particular job).

But it's not good for America or the American people. More and more of us are tax-eaters, people sitting in the wagon, and fewer and fewer of us are pulling the wagon.

Doesn't anyone stop and think about what happens when too few of us are carrying the burden of too many?

As Frederic Bastiat once said, "the state is that fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else."

While you're all *itching, how about the pharmaceutical companies, ridiculous malpractice suits, and unions? Hello?! They're part of the healthcare problem, too!

One would think the more popular a drug, the cheaper it would be -- not really the case!

I wish he were "anyone else."

TeresaBinstock, some demographic groups are more likely to be crime victims (because the group they are in commits more crimes), are less responsible in their personal lifestyle (more obesity, more smoking/alcoholism/drug abuse), etc., and genetically have a shorter longevity.

A big part of the change in life expectancy in the US has come from demographic changes driven by immigration and differing birth rates among groups. That has had a substantial impact on many statistics.

Unfavorable changes in overall life expectancy are not the whole story; you have to look at sub-groups. If Japan and Europe had the same demographic profile as the US does now, they'd have very similar numbers.

21113, you need to learn about supply and demand.

unitmom, what do you mean by "disenfranchised"? Very sloppy language and thinking. A term that meant something specific -- having one's vote taken away or denied -- seems to be slowly morphing into a generalized whine that someone isn't getting all the government goodies he wants.

Bravo for the nurses union! When war criminals like Cheney get treated better than law-abiding Americans, something is seriously wrong with this system.

What a great ad! Makes me proud of my profession. Given the way good health care has enhanced, and yes, preserved his life and quality of life, Cheney should be happy to serve as a poster boy for national health insurance.

Excellent ad. It did not say Cheney should be dead (that would go over the line), just that he would be if he were an average American. And while you can get better care if you press for it, you absolutely cannot always get the best care just because you push. I am retired. I had a laparoscopic prostatectomy at Johns Hopkins because I still have access to a health plan (for which I pay $280 a month, which is more than many can afford) with a resonable deductible. The Bush Administration has put a higher priority on tax cuts than on affordable health care.

Cheney's national health care policy: Keep himself alive.

The ad does nothing more than tell the truth about Bush/Cheney ignoring the suffering and early deaths of millions.

Surely, Cheney's dignity was not injured -- he has none. Not only should he and Bush be impeached, they should be executed shortly aterward for the countless daily innocent deaths caused by their policies.

The nurses union got it right. My wife is a nurse and I am a vet who gets tri-care for life. Everybody should have access to decent health care, and not just the guy responsible for placing so mnay in "harms way".

Funny that Cheney is simply outraged but cannot respond to the ad. Please, Dick, lets hear WHY you are outraged. Is it the wrongness of the ad or the rightness of the ad? That later me thinks.

And guess what, most of America is outraged too and the ad just makes the point that Americans are trying to make. If you are outraged at the ad you are outraged at most of America. Not surprising either since most of America is outraged at you for many reasons including ignoring the healthcare issue while you receive the best healthcare this nation can offer, for free, even though your health would disqualify you from obtaining health insurance from any health insurance provider. Preexisting condition I think they call it.

Most of the "uninsured" in America are illegal aliens. After that are people who are uninsured while between jobs, an average of a few months.

This leaves a very, very small percentage who are chronically uninsured.

Please, stop the hysterics and focus on the high cost of healthcare due to the high malpractice premiums due to the frivolous lawsuits against doctors.

Peace.

I want free housing, too! After the recent unpleasantness with the sub-prime market, I certainly don't want to sign a mortgage that would actually make me PAY something!

I agree: Dick Cheney gets free housing in a tony DC neighborhood, I want it too!

And my own private nurse too!

Uh, can I have an au pair?

Sure, Leaky Dicky has been dead and buried long ago.

What we have is his clone. But the scientists who produced him (it?) screwed the whole thing somehow, and ended up with a nastier VP.

Nothing can be done about it, cloning is irreversible.

Furthermore, he is expected to live 70 to 80 years.

We are in for a big and long mess. so sad

Alfonso, please provide one citation for your numerous assertions (and a Fox broadcast does NOT count.) I suspect you are neither a healthcare provider nor involved in healthcare administration. Additionally, please provide an explanation for why those jurisdictions that have imposed caps on lawsuits have continued to see malpractice premiums (and their profits!) rise, not decline.

Thank you,
CC

Alfonso wrote: Most of the "uninsured" in America are illegal aliens. After that are people who are uninsured while between jobs, an average of a few months.

This leaves a very, very small percentage who are chronically uninsured.

Please, stop the hysterics and focus on the high cost of healthcare due to the high malpractice premiums due to the frivolous lawsuits against doctors.

Peace.

Posted by: alfonso | December 11, 2007 11:46 AM

alfonso: "Peace" yourself, you xenophobic stooge. The only thing worse than a know-it-all is a know-it-all who has never met a fact he can't ignore.

The ad is shocking because it is accurate.The truth hurts. It mainly hurts the uninsured. The remark that most of the uninsured are illegal aliens establishes the source as a complete moron. Clearly this is a person who also thinks the homeless just need to get a job. There are some illiterate cold individuals out here. Perhaps we could send them to another country.

Did you all notice this part near the end of the ad:
"Let's talk about real solutions. Forcing people to buy insurance doesn't provide better or more universal care. It just pads the pockets of the insurance companies."

This non-solution refers, of course, to Hillary's plan for government mandated coverage for all. She wants to have [her] government force everyone to have health insurance. Since she is so deeply in the pockets of Corporate America, lobbyists and special interests, whose pockets she needs to pad, no wonder that is her plan.

What happened to her equally absurd plan to give $5000 [of your tax money, of course] to every newborn child, as some sort of "down payment" for his/her education in 20 years? Or was that just another example of her saying anything that she thought particular audience would want to hear, knowing that the American voting public at large votes by their emotional side but not by their rational side?

Wake up, America! and reject this phony candidate and her phony husband.

Let lying dogs sleep!

None dare call the health system in the U.S. a form of genocide.

Almost none.

The Topography Of Genocide? Poverty In The United States - Spatial Analysis Reveals A Continental Poverty Divide

Courtesy of DocuTicker
One of the maps, by standard deviation from the national mean:

Look at the 'Four Corners' area where Arizona, New Mexico, Utah, and Colorado coincide... That's where many indigenous 'American' reservations are located.

Author's statement, from the introduction:

I have chosen to illustrate poverty because its influence on health is significant, unequivocal, and well-documented.... ...Individuals living [...]

Full Post
http://leighm.net/wp/2007/10/06/topocide_cdc/

I have seen the illegal alien assertion before. I would be interested in what its source is.

I always find it interesting that those who defend (rather weakly, I might add) the status quo are quick to bring up frivolous lawsuits against doctors, yet site few examples of such.

While I don't doubt for a moment that there are frivolous lawsuits against doctors, I suspect that there the majority of lawsuits are actually very valid.

And besides, I notice that there are few complaints when rich people and corporations file lawsuits for whatever reason; yet when the average joe feels the need to do so, it's somehow immediately classified as frivolous.

What probably contributes most to the high costs of health care is that drug prices (competition is good for you and me, but it's not so good for drug companies, which is why they can charge more for their drugs in the United States than anywhere else), expensive, untried treatments (if hospitals are going to pay millions for the latest technology, whether or not they actually need it, they are going to have to justify its existence somehow).

And there is also the whole insurance infrastructure to consider, which we are also paying to support.

The one comment above regarding VA health care for "those who can go after it" is an insult to the men suffering in Walter Reed and the tens of thousands of veterans who lack the ability to coerce health care out of a VA system crippled by political cronies.

As a totally disabled veteran living 3 miles from a VA clinic, I have managed to get some health care for some things only because I bring my wive, an RN, to my appointments.

However, even she is unable to get me anything resembling quality care. Some appointments have taken years to get only to be resecheduled by the VA to, what I suspect, should be a time after my death.

If you want medical care, go to France, Cuba or Mauritus.

what a shame that we, the people, can afford to destroy another nation, spending billions, maybe trillions, to rebuild it amid unbelievable amounts of graft for 21st century oil barrons, BUT we, the people,cannot afford to have national health care as other civilized nations do.

maybe we need a completely new set of elected officials in Washington, having found that career politicians only serve themselves.

I've been cheering on his atherosclerosis, diabetes, gout, and congestive heart failure for years, yet he still keeps beating them. Damn guy has a set of health care givers in the same league as the New England Patriots.

But he's gotta lose eventually.

of course aliens have no insurance! our bodies aren't like yo-, oh, sorry.

Thanks to the Iowa nurse: you hear a lot of stories, and also see a lot of statistics & numbers: her explaination was clearly and plainly laid out. The last statement was all we need to know, to convince us of the urgency of dealing with this situation, if we hope to preserve our shrinking, struggling middle class.

In the article by Mary Ann Akers, Dennis Kucinich was mentioned as supporting the bill for a single payer medical insurance system. Kucinich not only has the courage to take on the for profit medical systems,
but he is the only candidate to have voted against the illegal US invasion of Iraq; and furthermore, he compiled a body of evidence before this ill fated war supporting the fact that there were no WMDs in Iraq;s possesion. Kucinich deserves everyone's vote if you want unselfish change. Edwards would be my next choice. Obama was untruthful when he twice said on different occasions that he was the "only" candidate who was "against" that war. I'm tired of the misleading, artificial statements we've all been forced to tolerate these past seven years.

Bob Rushford (one who is more interested in principle than selfish, political games). Dec. 11, 2007

The asolution is easy. Just give everybody the option of signing up for the same healthcare plan that Congress has.

Love it.

The Truth has and always will be outrageous to the "People of the Lie", which I consider all in this present administration to be a part of.

Right on, Nurse's Union! It is true, and oh so sad. I am refused insurance because of "pre-existing conditions", regardless of my willingness to pay, but Cheney, who really should have been dead a long time ago, welp, he's special. Why? Umm, let's ask Baxter Healthcare about that, and whoever else bought their influence in this White House. Poor people cannot line the GOP coffers - this is why they die - it is that simple!

This is the most incredibly corrupt WH - these people make Warren Harding look good. To our everlasting shame, two illegal terms of this! Get them out now!

If Cheney works for the Executive Branch AND the Legislative Branch, he actually has TWO sets of healthcare benefits.

That makes this ad really outrageous, right?

Cheney, why can't you give up one of your healthcare benefits and give it to someone who deserves it: Some child who fell between the cracks but should be covered by S-CHIP?

Cheney finds the truth "outrageous." This is news?

lstarr3 wrote: 21113, you need to learn about supply and demand.
==

Nothing spells "fool" more clearly than this post.

I am very amused at how many of these posts, including my own, practically come right out and say, "Die Cheney, die!" :) It is true the public is done with the guy. Both of the guys.

But all you defenders of the status quo, take heart: Mr. Cheney will be able to take his excellent health insurance plan with him, as VP, and I think is previous senatorial status too. Awww, doesn't that make you feel better now?

Most of the "uninsured" in America are illegal aliens.
==

There are about 45 million uninsured.

There are an estimated 12 million illegal aliens. Since when is 12 million "most" of 45 million?

You're lying.

Bush supporter?

Hey Chris Fox, who could possibly still be a Bush supporter? What fantasy world could such a person possibly live in?

Name an area of the national life those two clowns haven't wrecked. It's just beyond me.

What the Cheney people are really angry about is the suggestion that We the Riff Raff might actually *deserve* the same quality of care that the Dark Lord receives. In Darth Cheney's world, "human worth" and "financial worth" are interchangeable terms.

Mary Ann, are you a Republican, or have you just bought into the Republican scare tactic about "socialized medicine?"

The group is not advocating "government run health care legislation." That's the "socialized medicine" scare tactic. They're
advocating government run "health insurance" legislation - just like Medicare where you get to choose your own doctor. No socialized medicine, just "socialized insurance."

Why would anyone want even "socialized insurance?"

Here's why: The insurance industry's own "educational" arm, the Council for Affordable Health Insurance (CAHI) did a study that showed you get 11 cents more of health care for your Medicare tax dollar than you do for your private insurance premium dollar. That's 11 cents on the dollar by the industry's own study that goes for things other than health care.

The product we're buying is health care. insurance is just one way we pay for it. The government, by the insurance industry's own calculation, gives us more health care for our dollar than private insurance does.

According to their own study, insurance companies charge us 16 dents on the dollar to pay our doctor bills while the government only charges a nickel. The real question is this: Why would anyone willingly pay 16 cents for a product they can get elsewhere for a nickel?

The nurses are advocating a program that gets us more health care for our dollar.

Why is it outrageous?

It's TRUE.

Something the MSM just doesn't get.

America cares about TRUTH.

And we care about LIES - and are willing to call those who tell them ... LIARS.

Get it? Good.

Why don't they just do that open up the Federal Empolyees plan to everyone. I am a retired Federal Employee (on Disability) Blue Cross and Blue Shield Basic, Family Gov.t Share $595.82, employee share $198.61 or Individual coverage $254.38, employee share $84.79 The other Popular Blue Cross and Blue Shield Plan is Standard, Family, gov't contribution, $713.48/month, $314/month employee;. Standard employee contribution. Employee Only gov't contribution, $314.25/mo, $134.66 employee contribution.

Over 50% of the Congress and all Federal Employees belong to one of these two Federal Plans. So why not open them up to all Americans. The Basic Plan is a preferred plan, where you are required to go to doctors and hospitals in the network to receive the payment, but has no deductables, $20-30 co-pays for Doctors $10-35 drug co-pay.

None of the Federal Plans have great dental or eye coverage. No orthodontic, etc.. Just Basic Cleaning. So why are we giving it away better benefits for the Schipp program.

We could have the employers pay the basic employee only amount for all employees $254.38 as a minimum or provide their own plan that provided as much or more coverage. Those employers who saw, how offering better benefits could reduce turn over, and create a better workplace would offer to pay the basic family and self coverage $595.82. Everyone, could have the Blue Cross and Blue Shield Basic Coverage that Congress has for less than $50/week, those below a certain income level could purchase it at a sliding income scale. Those who didn't purchase it would be taxed to support the public hospitals. The drain on our Emergency rooms, would be reduced, since less people would be uninsured or underinsured.

It would be so easy. It is all set up. Why can't we just implement it.

Comrade Cheney is interested in two things: taking care of Dick and taking care of Halliburton.

The good news is that Cheney has exposed his PNAC buddies for the insidious people they are and has proven beyond a doubt that the PNAC strategy to use US military might to democratize the world is fatally flawed.

Thank God for term limits.

I wonder out of those 47 million people, how many chose to not pay for health care? How many chose to use their resources in other area's like a bigger house in a fancier neighborhood, or send there kids to private school, or a whole host of other things that people choose to do. I do beleive there are some people that really need state sponsered healthcare. But if your a person that makes a good living and you decide not to buy health insurance because you feel it's a waste of money, especially when your not sick or injured, but instead you use your financial resources on something else like a new car or boat. Well then you made that decision yourself not the Gov, so if you do get injured or sick you have no one to blame but yourself.

Remember the Seinfeld episode when Jerry recommneded to George Costanza that he does the 'opposite' of whatever he normally thinks or does. Seinfeld, recounting George's consistent failure at every attempt at romantic and workplace endeavors, offered a simple, scientific option: just do the opposite.

Of course, I would never apply the 'faux wisdom' a situation comedy episode to Vice President's Cheney's decision-making process...the issues are too formidable: war, domestic spying, constitutional integrity, natural disasters, ...yes, healthcare, and let's not forget quail hunting.

I have a suggestion that may help solve several problems. lets allow more immigrants in, let them become citizens, then they can pay taxes. this will help not only with paying for medical expenses but will help solve the long term problems we have with social security. western economies that are moving ahead have lower birthrates and then fewer tax payers. we need more new citizens to fill the gap. why is this not understood???????

It's sad, but true. Health care is huge and not very many people can afford or deal with its problems. The outrageous ad may have opened some eyes, which is probably a good thing.

Dear marry ann akers____________________:
I am a moslim living with my family in Arlington, Texas, USA. I have a desperate cry for your help. My 9-year-old son was recently assaulted in a local mosque by a Palestinian terrorist who was retaliating against me for my undercover work with the FBI years ago that helped put 40 Palestinians in federal prison. This 25-year-old Palestinian man harmed my son, causing him two broken fingers, but also causing him to become extremely fearful of adult strangers. When I sued the thug, and the mosque, in a local court, the boss of the mosque announced in the microphone of the mosque, during Ramadan, that I, Mohamed Elkharsity, had become an outlaw to moslims. The boss also asked for donations among the participants in that Ramadan service to raise $150,000.00 to defend against my lawsuit against the mosque. I previously informed the FBI that fundraising by that local mosque is actually being targeted for the support of Hamas. I am very upset because the boss of the mosque slandered and defamed my wife in her presence among the participants in the local mosque during Ramadan. Besides denouncing her, the boss told her never to worship in his mosque ever again. The boss also sent my lawyer a letter threatening us not to attend the mosque. This is a violation of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution! This boss has a history of abusing the wives. He also has convinced the moslim community that he is a lawyer, which he is not. Furthermore, this boss is anti-semitic, and he teaches moslim youth to hate the Jewish community, which I strongly support. This boss likes his fellow moslims to call him "Ameer Almumneen", he is a member of CAIR, and he heads every fundraising or other mosque actions. He has instilled fear in the moslim community as if this were the Gaza Strip. This boss is also fighting the economic system of the United States, because he teaches the Sharea Islamic system dealing with, for example, the financing of homes. He encourages moslims to stop dealing with mortage.com. My lawyer is scared and withdrew from my case because of possible reprisals by the Palestinian Hamas. Now I need your help to fight hatred, terrorism, and fascio-islamism. I am seeking a fearless lawyer who is not afraid to fight for my cause. I wish to hear from you by e-mail. Thank you.
Yours sincerely,
Mohamed Elkharsity
email m5nutcntr@yahoo.com

Mr. Hawk:

Affordability is only one aspect of the accessibility of obtaining health insurance. The other, is that it is almost impossible to get private insurance if you have any record of pre-existing conditions (ie - have seen a doctor in the last 5 years.)

I know several 20-something very healthy college grads that were denied access to insurance coverage because they did the responsible thing during college - they went to a doctor for help with anxiety, depression, reproductive issues, and other issues most people would consider normal medical care. Insurance companies only insure those that don't apparently need any medical care unless they are part of a large group such as a large employer.

I am now an RN, but before that I was a Navy Independent Duty Hospital Corpsman. This ad makes me ashamed of my currnet profession.

Tax payer funded health care is not the answer. Call it National Healt care if you want ... But the truth it is not Government funded health care ... it is tax payer funded health care ... and it will ruin this country.

This next election will not be about the war aginst terrorist. It will be a fight for America. The dicision will come down to socilism or America as it was crated to be.

I do not want socilism. America must remain free.

The nurses union got it wrong. Sure rich people have more access to care. The VP, no matter who he is or what party he is from WILL get the best health care .... He is the VP.

Tax payer funded health care will not give every American the same health care that the President and VP, and Ted Kennedy and movie stars receive. To think other wise is not honest.

Tax payer funded health care will break the backs of the working people and start the slow distruction of America.

Now you can all go back to your love fest of tax payer funded health care. I am going to bed.

And for the guy who says he gets TRICARE, you EARNED IT by putting your life on the line ... and you still have to pay for it every year.

Mark A. Wright
HMC(SS),USN,RET

when Cheney finally does "kick the bucket", i hope they don't bury his carcass
in Wyoming. We don't want to poison the land any more than it already is...

Mark A. Wright, HMC(SS), USN, RET writes "tax payer funded health care . . . will ruin this country." Maybe he is unaware that the president, his cabinet, congressmen, senators, governors, and other political leaders are all beneficiaries of tax-payer-funded healthcare and will be for the rest of their lives. As a retired veteran, Mr. Wright will also be eligible for tax-payer-funded health care for the rest of his life. Given his position, however, I assume he will never accept a modicum of tax-payer-supported health care largess. Then again, maybe Mr. Wright takes the position that there are those who deserve tax-payer-funded health care and those who do not, and he is among the former. What say you, Mr. Wright?

Ray Barrow, Ph.D., M.Ed., M.A.

I have a great idea. Get a job where health care benefits are included with the pay package. Then keep the job. Problem solved. That's what I did and that's what the Vice President did...

As a semi-retired physician I find this discussion quite interesting. I am inclined to aggree that we need some type of universal health care coverage. I would refer concerned readers to Paul Krugman's many articles on the subject. If you find him too biased then try the medical health care Princeton economist Uwe Reinhardt at www.keyspeakers.com/bio.php?id=1475
The fact remains that no matter what type system we have in place the wealthy will always receive higher quality care, but that does not mean that those who of lessor means should go with out.
My daughter lives in England and I must say that even if their system has many defects (many people there purchase additional insurance)the best care in the world for serious ailments such as ovarian cancer is available with out costing the patient a dime.
That is not possible in this country. My 43 year old son suffered a heart attack last year and in spite of his employer based health insurance it has taken him over 18 months to pay his bills.
Lastly it is my opinion that our insurance system may be one of the most inefficient systems in the world. Would someone tell me why insurance companies like Hummana would buy other companies for millions of dollars? Why do the Blue's spend large sums entertaing doctors and/or paying for their executives to travel and reside at meetings at a first class level?
Just where do our insurance dollars go?
Why is medicare more efficient?

First, the ad may not be pleasant but it is the simple truth.

Want to see change? First, tie all of the benefits received by our elected "representatives" - including health care, retirement, pay and tax deductions - to that of the average American (excluding their buddies in the top 20% of incomes). Second, demand real reforms on lobbying and election contributions. Third, quit voting for these silver spoon wealthy boobs who have not done an honest days work in their lives and think that being elected means that they are there to help their rich friends whose money helped get them there.

When was the last time you saw a piece of legislation that was clearly designed to help the citizens of this country without providing even more benefits to special interests?

The last few words that said "...let everyone have it. " That is the ideal, an ideal that won't be acheived for a while. If that ideal is acheived, I am sure we would have lots of taxes, like Canada, but better because Canada's health care could be better. For now only high priority personnel like a Vice-president or president. We have to just wait until the government has enough money and time to offer us health care.

williamtallred:

You do realize that only about 60 percent of the jobs out there now offer health insurance? I'm no mathematician, but that seems to leave nearly half the population out of your pat, thoughtless "solution."

It's the classic conservative approach: Pretend a solution that's worked for someone will work for everyone (the facts be damned), so you can pretend the problem doesn't exist.

Or maybe you're singing another popular conservative refrain: "I got mine; to hell with you."

It appears that Mark A. Wright, HMC(SS), USN, RET and solarsystem, the semi-retired physician, agree on at least one thing; viz., were the U.S. to change from a fee-for service healthcare system to socialized medicine it would not diminish differences in quality of healthcare by income. There's reason to believe that this hypothesis may be correct. Before Britain socialized its healthcare delivery system, advocates of this system argued that it would improve the quality of healthcare to low-income citizens thereby improving their health; improving their health would, in turn, reduce the morbidity/mortality disparity between lower-income and higher-income citizens. Subsequent analysis, however, failed to confirm this hypothesis. That was the bad news. The good news was that socialized medicine in Britain tended to improve the health of citizens in all income categories, including the health of the more affluent. One possible explanation for these findings is that the quality of healthcare delivery for both low-income citizens and high income citizens improved.

Just what do the Unions and the trial lawyers believe will happen to them under a government socialized medicine scenario?

The goverernment will set wages for medical staff as do in all the countries of the world who have socialized health care. Why do you think that those health professionals from other countries come here?

As for the trial lawyers, they will not be able to sue health care providers for malpractice because they will be government employees. Just like the VA and the Military medicine model.

It's just really difficult for me to see what advantage these groups would have under a socialized medicine model of care?

>>Just what do the Unions and the trial lawyers believe will happen to them under a government socialized medicine scenario?

It's hard to say, since none of these groups, or any other mainstream liberal group (or any of the Democratic candidates, for that matter) have proposed such a scenario.

What some of them *have* proposed is a single-payer system similar to Canada's. Under such a system, the doctors and hospitals remain private. The government (the "single payer") merely acts as the insurance company.

Whoever thinks this amounts to "socialized" medicine needs to buy a dictionary.

Without being "single-payer", insurance does not protect you from financial disaster, if you become ill, co-pays and deductibles can cost you your savings, house, and anything else you may have of value, including your life. If you can get insurance, it's because you are healthy and probably wont need it. The current system is about profit, not care, we need to understand the greed and power of these major corporations and see them for the drain they are.

The "Medicare" story above sounds wonderful, except it forgets to explain how absolutely poor you have to be in order to receive "aid" like that. The author refers to "NO resources" like that was a huge obstacle rather that the key, you can't have any resources and still get "aid".

Compare Clinton to Kucinich on health care reform and follow the money. Mandatory for-profit insurance on one side and single payer not-for-profit on the other. Major insurance companies contribute to the Clinton campaign, I personally contribute to Kucinich.

Been a while since I was here.
There is no such thing as a single payer system. The government does not have it's own money. .... That money comes from the tax payers. A single payer program is really a tax payer funded program. Only the people who work and earn and pay taxes will be paying for everyones healthcare ... and the healtcare will be substandard.

As for the person who thinks I get free health care as a 23 year Navy vet ... believer me, after being blown up once, stabbed twice, and spending many many years away from home, wife, family, and the country I love, sacrificing my hearing and other parts.... it is not free. Only a PHD who has never served would say that ... come to think of it, it was a PHD who said it.

I for one, don't want to work my gizzard to the bone, just so that I and everyone else can have health care. There is so much more to life than paying doctors and hospitals, and if my entire paycheck ends up going for that purpose, I would be tempted to say... what the hey! Yeah... lets fix us all up, so we can all get back at it and earn more money to give to doctors and hospitals THROUGH TAXES which is where socialized medicine gets its money. I DON'T WANT TO WORK FOR DOCTORS! I DON'T WANT TO WORK FOR HOSPITALS! I DON'T WANT TO WORK FOR PILL MAKERS! GIVE ME LIFE OUTSIDE OF MEDICAL CARE OR GIVE ME DEATH! Really!

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unions are useless

So what you're telling me "Doc" Wright, is that you're more important than the man who harvests your food? Perhaps you think you deserve more than the woman who serves you that food at your local restaurant, you ungrateful, self-inflated wretch. The people who pick cotton, pour cement, wash dishes, and generally do the REAL work of this country are my heroes.

And what about your fellow service-members who did NOT serve in combat? What about the logistics officers or the dishwashers or the accounting clerks, do they all deserve benefits for life because they served? Oh, but they didn't take a knife so they must not have TRULY demonstrated their love for this country and earned their benefits; they must not love it as much as YOU, you pompous blowhard.

And what makes you think PhD = non-service? I have a Masters and I served, both facts that alone make me no better than anyone else in this country - except you. I am definitely better than you. In fact, everyone is better than you. You belong with Dick Cheney.

I PAY FOR MEDICARE AND HAVE A PLAN THROUGH THE COMPANY I WORKED FOR BUT I STILL PAY THROUGH THE NOSE. I AM RUNNING OUT OF MONEY AND I HAVE ONLY BEEN RETIRED FOR 7 YEARS. PEOPLE WHO ARE ON MEDICAID GET A LOT MORE FOR FREE THAN MIDDLE CLASS AMERICANS WHO MUST GIVE UP EVERYTHING THEY OWN TO GET ANY HELP. LOOK AT THE PATIENTS IN CA WHO HAVE BEEN DUMPED ON THE STREETS BY HOSPITALS. LOOK AT RONNIE REAGAN WHO RATHER THAN RAISE TAXES ON THE RICH REVISED THE STAUTES FOR INSANITY AND DUMPED THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE ON THE STREET WITHOUT ANY CARE...WHAT A GUY.

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