OK, cue the jokes about which MSL coach Barbie will/should be replacing this season...

I give Clavijo about a month more before his job is threatened by the blond bombshell.

My daughter has had that Barbie for well over a year now.

I believe it was Beckerman's mother who was sitting behind me during the 2004 US Olympic squad's 6-0 win over St. Kitts & Nevis on a cold, rainy night at the soccerplex. She remarked to one of her companions as he passed instead of shot, "I'm always telling him to be more selfish."

Is he a practicing Rastafarian, or is that just a hairdo?

Beckerman was one of those kids who, at age 9, made you stop and say: "That kid's gonna be a player."

I can't say the same about Barbie, though I like the Pugg goal she's lugging around.

I played with Beckerman in high school and the skills he had then were so far beyond what anyone else had. It makes me wonder what some other, more accomplished pros than Beckerman (not to say that he isn't an MLS standout and fringe national team player) are capable of. I'm impressed by what he has accomplished in his career up to this point and I'm looking forward to seeing him continue to improve in the future.

"A Major League Player"

How could the Post let the above phrase be used in the headline of the Beckerman article by Dave Yanovitz?

Just yesterday, didn't Goff in his chat say that he didn't consider MLS a "major league"?

Perhaps some at the Post disagree with that opinion.

Is it not ridiculous that two MLS teams need a play-in match for the open cup?

"Coaching is hard. Let's go shopping!"

@It's major, imo

NIT-PICKER!

@Johnny,

Ridiculous in what way?

MLS is given 8 slots and "enters" in round 3 (16 teams). So, you're having teams play each other to determine who from the bottom table teams last year (spots 6-13, ex Toronto) get the last two slots for US Open Cup.

I mean it would be more ridiculous to have these teams playing the local immigrant team that entered from suburban wherever in the early rounds of the competition.

The US Open Cup is beyond flawed, but until MLS settles itself after this next decade of growth and stadium building, it's unlikely to find a better fix and a more important place in the US domestic soccer universe.

VA blue blood,

in my opinion, the NIT-PICKER is Goff for claiming both MLS and the NHL are not among "the major" sports leagues in the US.

I guess we're all free to "set the bar" at any level we want, but to classify MLS as "non-major" at this point, seems a bit inaccurate.

I can see why some have that opinion, but I don't think it is the correct one to have.

Just yesterday, didn't Goff in his chat say that he didn't consider MLS a "major league"?

------
Good Lord. Give me a break.

My point yesterday was that MLS and the NHL should not be placed in the same category as the NBA, MLB and NFL.

The name of the league ("Major League") and the play on words used in the Beckerman headline have nothing to do with what was discussed yesterday.

(sigh)

got nothing: What do you think of the Miley Cyrus photos?

Steven Goff: Uptight Americans overreacting to nothing. "Oh my, what will I tell my daughter?? How awful!" Take your kid to a museum. Expose them to real culture, instead of pop culture.

I think Beckerman should cut that hair! No one will take him seriously if they think he is a stoner surfer dude. Even Frankie and Pablo figured that out. The guy was in the same class as Donovan and company, and many said he had more talent than those guys. So why the disconnect with USMNT? 5 caps versus Donovan's 100?

Wow, I'm actually looking forward to watching tonights game in Toronto. See what a little atmosphere can do for you?

"Expose them to real culture, instead of pop culture."

Indeed.

---
Good Lord. Give me a break.
---

this is a blog, there are no breaks.

---
My point yesterday was that MLS and the NHL should not be placed in the same category as the NBA, MLB and NFL.
---

thanks for clarifying that point. but initially it read as if MLS was not a major league.

and looking at it differently, someone else could make the point that the NBA shouldn't be in the same category as the NFL and MLB. or that nothing should be in the same category as the NFL.

---
The name of the league ("Major League") and the play on words used in the Beckerman headline have nothing to do with what was discussed yesterday.
---

or, it has everything to do with it. i agreed with the Beckerman headline and I don't agree with your opinion that MLS can't be placed in the same category as NFL, NBA, MLB, and even NHL. yes i realize that within that category, there is some additional stratification, but I do consider all five of those leagues as major leagues.

i'm just not sure what it would take for MLS to really be considered "major" in the minds of more people.

---
(sigh)
---

sigh

We soccer fans need to take a chill pill. The whole whiny thing seems to fit everytime someone takes a perceived slight at the beautiful game. People need to learn to let stuff roll off their backs.

Steve: Not trying to stir up trouble, but can you comment on the relationship between the Brazilians and the Argentines in the DCU lockeroom, elsewhere? As many South Americans know, there is no love loss between the two nations when it comes to futbol (and many other subjects). Do they get along, do they socialize, do they stick to their kind (for lack of a better term at the moment), etc? Some might answer that last year's playmaker was also Argentine and Emilio had no problems scoring, but Gomez was not an Argentine MNT player while Gallardo has probably competed against Brazil's MNT many times as well as on the club level in Copa Libertadores. How do/did the other South Americans get along with the Argentines (apart from Moreno, who seems to be the team ambassador)?

---
We soccer fans need to take a chill pill. The whole whiny thing seems to fit everytime someone takes a perceived slight at the beautiful game. People need to learn to let stuff roll off their backs.
---

Agreed.

It's a shame when some "discussion" so quickly turns into a "whiners party."

"Expose them to real culture, instead of pop culture."

. . . . from the guy who closed the chat with a quote from Ferris Beuller . . . .

"the kids are alright"

I've have the pleasure of meeting Bill Gaoziou a few times, and got to know his daughter and son-in-law who live here in Columbus. My thoughts and prayers go out to not only them but the entire Gaoziou family - and extended US Soccer family on their loss of a fine gentleman.

"We soccer fans need to take a chill pill. The whole whiny thing seems to fit everytime someone takes a perceived slight at the beautiful game. People need to learn to let stuff roll off their backs."

I don't think the classification of "leagues" is a "perceived slight at the beautiful game," but rather a one-sided view of MLS relative to other pro sports leagues in the US.

I can completely see where Goff (and many others) are coming from when they say MLS isn't at the level of the Big 3 (or Big 4) leagues or whatever.

But, MLS is what it is. It pays well (to a limited portion of the roster), but not great (or outrageously like the Big leagues). It has 13 years of tradition. It has decent attendance (again, not great, but sometimes on par with what NBA, NHL, MLB can do).

I just don't see what else the league can do, accept I suppose be patient and wisely expand and grow the league and the audience and revenues. With time, I can agree that MLS can become "more Major" and perhaps get classified with the likes of the NBA and MLB. But I don't know if there will ever be a "tipping point" or a moment when everyone will willing accept the league for what it is.

I accept it as it is now, and I realize it can't compare on many levels to things like the NFL (but I don't really see the need to frame the comparison as such).

I see it as major. And I can see why other's don't see MLS as Major. and at this point, I don't agree with their opinion, or the perspective from which they base their claim.

This whole thing started because Christian Gomez didn't get remembered for having won an MVP Trophy. And now we're just kicking it back on forth on a soccer blog while the rest of the sporting world sits oblivious. Talk about preaching to the choir.

Any idea when the WNT will be arriving in DC and at what airport? I would like to take my daughters to welcome them. Are they going to be practicing at any local college fields? It is great that they are finally back in the DC area - hopefully we will get more National Team games (both Men & Women) now that they won't have to fight with the Nationals for field time.

"I think Beckerman should cut that hair!"

Alan, that's exactly what's wrong with MLS. Anyone keeping tabs on the South American talent entering the league - Toja, Gallardo, Peralta, Claudio Lopez, etc - can see that long hair is the way to go. To quote a little known philospher, "hair are our aerials: they send signals from the cosmos directly into the brain." How else can you explain Gallardo's GOTW?!?

We need more, not fewer, American players with the cosmos-channeling power of long hair! Now, if you want my personal opinion, Beckerman would be better off with a Nigel Tufnel/ Toja style 'do, but we'll take what we can get.

Fan, Goff said elsewhere that they may practice at Georgetown on T, W, Th.

No, but seriously, has anyone ever seen a soccer coach like Barbie? If so, I imagine the head of FIFA would be happy to watch those games... if he could only get women players to wear skirts like that...

. . . from the guy who closed the chat with a quote from Ferris Beuller . .

-----

By all means, compare one line from a movie used in an online chat with the hysterical reaction in the public and media to photos in vanity fair. yup, you got me. guilty as charged. i may never overcome this transgression.

The women's team is tentatively scheduled to practice at Georgetown Tuesday through Thursday. For more information, contact the USSF at 312-808-1300.

for those who want MLS to be the level of places like the EPL, fair warning: have you seen ticket prices at Old Trafford lately? the cheapest season ticket plans are 25 pounds a game, most are closer to 80 pounds. add in the mandatory friendlies and cup games, and you are looking at potentially 25 games. and those are the cheap seats.

enjoy the size we have now, as it gets bigger, your season tickets are just going to keep going up, and up, and up...

You meanies leave Goff alone! He might take his soccer blog and go home!

Steven Goff: I wouldn't include MLS as a major sports league at the moment, but I wouldn't include the NHL either.

There are two tiers: NFL, MLB and NBA followed by a big drop-off, and then the NHL, MLS and maybe the WNBA

--------------------------

WNBA on the same level as MLS? MLS on the same level as NHL? Are you kidding me? I guess it depends on how you measure it.

easy bro. meant it light-heartedly. letting kids watch hannah montana does not preclude exposing them to real culture. good chance i might have watched gilligan's island and read nietzsche on the same day. no reason to get excited, maybe vanity fair and the internet just yield a few more teaching moments now that teen stars end up partially clothed in photos at 15 or pregnant and unwed at 17.

(why would someone ask you about miley cyrus on a soccer chat anyway?)

Good Lord. Give me a break.

My point yesterday was that MLS and the NHL should not be placed in the same category as the NBA, MLB and NFL.

The name of the league ("Major League") and the play on words used in the Beckerman headline have nothing to do with what was discussed yesterday.

(sigh)

Posted by: Goff | May 1, 2008 10:53 AM
____________________

I'm sorry, but you and your Post colleagues coming up with some arbitrary rating system to justify excluding DC United MLS MVP winners when talking about Alex Ovechin's soon to be (very deserved) MVP award, appears VERY petty (and quite frankly Steve I thought you were better than that). MLS is the highest level of men's soccer we have in this country, several men from D.C. United (our local team) have won the league's MVP award. I really don't understand why the Post, the local paper of record, would be dismissive of these accomplishments when talking about MVP's from our area pro teams (especially since we seem to be so light in MVPs from all of our local pro sports teams).

K

Do you really think that Tarik's criteria were truly "arbitrary"? It's doubtlessly true that the NFL, NBA, and MLB are the top professional leagues in their sports, and one would be hard pressed to make an argument that the Russian league offers better hockey than the NHL.

The MVPs of those leagues are essentially equivalent to the FIFA Footballer of the Year. If there's a direct equivalent in FIBA or whatever, I don't know of it, but there really aren't better top-class players in other leagues.

That's not the case with MLS. The name of the award may be the same, but the quality of the player relative to all players in the world is not.

If Beckham played here and won the MVP do you think the local media count that?

Once you cut thru Tarik's smoke and mirror explanation, what he's really trying to say is that the Big 3 are mainstream and MLS is not. He knows it, I know it, you all know it, pleading your case on this blog isn't going to change it. At the end of the day I couldn't care less about the Rome's and Deford's and Kornheisers of the world. But I do care that VW is sinking millions into the league and players like Gallardo, Blanco, Beckham and Angel can be seen playing at RFK and it won't cost me a weeks salary to see some great soccer.

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Do you really think that Tarik's criteria were truly "arbitrary"? It's doubtlessly true that the NFL, NBA, and MLB are the top professional leagues in their sports, and one would be hard pressed to make an argument that the Russian league offers better hockey than the NHL.

The MVPs of those leagues are essentially equivalent to the FIFA Footballer of the Year.
-----

But the MVPs are league awards. and DC United plays in a league. so we're never going to acknowledge the MLS MVP's until they start winning Fifa player of the year awards as well? Seems strange (and pointless) to me to set the criteria as such.

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That's not the case with MLS. The name of the award may be the same, but the quality of the player relative to all players in the world is not.
-----

But the award is Most Valuable Player relative to the league, not to all the players in the world.

The top player in the EPL is no more or less "deserving" of that award or recognition than a player in La Liga or Seria A are in their respective leagues.

Just as the NBA or MLB top player (or MVP) is relative to their own leagues, and as great as those leagues are, I'm guessing baseball leagues in Japan or Venezuela and basketball leagues in Germany or Greece honor and recognize their MVP athletes without qualifying by saying their local leagues can't match the NBA or MLB (although I'm guessing some would argue that their leagues do in fact measure up -- in some ways -- to the US leagues).

DC United (and MLS MVP's Etch, Gomez and Emilio) should be noted the same way that Ovechkin and the Caps are recognized (which should be the same way that a Wizard or a Nat or a Redskin player would be recognized).

------
Once you cut thru Tarik's smoke and mirror explanation, what he's really trying to say is that the Big 3 are mainstream and MLS is not.
------

But local to the DC market (which I think was the emphasis of the initial MVP discussion), MLS is "mainstream" -- or at least "mainstream" enough to have a popular blog where folks can come and discus the sport, league and local team.

I think the difference has to do with difficulty of accomplishment. You don't have to be as good a soccer player as Ovechkin is to hockey to win MLS MVP, and in fact, the best MLS players ever were merely adequate (at best) in their previous "major" leagues:

Emilio in Germany and Brazil; Gomez in Argentina; Moreno and Preki in England; Guevara and Etcheverry in Spain; Twellman in Germany.... Kreis won, but never played abroad... who else is there? Valdarrama was a pretty awesome player, despite the fact that I never saw him move faster than a jog when he was in MLS. On the other hand, Stoitchkov really WAS the best player in the world at one point, but even when he first joined MLS, he was pretty far down his decline.

This isn't to knock MLS. After all, I'm an MLS fan, but no way could you say that Amado Guevara:soccer in 2004::Kevin Garnett:basketball in 2004, or Peyton Manning in futbol norteamericano. It's a bit like-- not quite exactly, but not dissimilar-- getting worked up because the US Rugby Super League MVP doesn't get mentioned in the same breath as the big four.

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no way could you say that Amado Guevara:soccer in 2004::Kevin Garnett:basketball in 2004, or Peyton Manning in futbol norteamericano.
----

MVP does not measure "difficulty of accomplishment."

its measure contribution to a team and excellence in a league in a specific year.

-------
Stoitchkov really WAS the best player in the world at one point, but even when he first joined MLS, he was pretty far down his decline.
-------

And the fact that there were "better" players in those MLS seasons (relative to Stoichkov and all the others in MLS) is accomplishment that is worth noting and recognizing. The fact that Stoitchkov wasn't "great" or "MVP-worthy" during his time in MLS doesn't diminish his previous achievements elsewhere in the world of soccer.

Omitting Etch, Gomez and Emilio from the league MVP discussion is a swipe at MLS. if you want to qualify it as "global" relevance or "difficulty of accomplishment" you're not only undermining the MLS players, but also MLS. and i think that's where a lot of the "complaints" come from.

some think it's fine to take that stance toward "little/insignificant" MLS, but obviously some think the league (and its awards) are worth recognizing and discussing.

I don't think anyone is denying that Gomez or Emilio were deserving of their league MVP awards. They were.

The point is whether the significance of the MLS MVP is on par with the significance of an MVP award for the professional league that is pre-eminent in its respective sport.

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The point is whether the significance of the MLS MVP is on par with the significance of an MVP award for the professional league that is pre-eminent in its respective sport.
-----

I don't buy-into that "pre-eminent in its respective sport" qualifier.

Seems needless.

League MVP is a league award. not a global award.

Again, is the EPL or Serie A or La Liga or Bundesliga MVP award "less" significant because there are other leagues out there in the world that might be "better" or the pre-eminent league?

My argument is that MVP should only be looked at from the point of significance to accomplishment within that league. MLS MVP is worth recognizing.

"Again, is the EPL or Serie A or La Liga or Bundesliga MVP award "less" significant because there are other leagues out there in the world that might be "better" or the pre-eminent league?"

Nobody gives a damn about the equivalent of "MVP" in those leagues because the prestige of those awards are insignificant compared to FIFA World Footballer of the Year.

Let me introduce you to US Rugby Super League MVP Caine Elisara. He puts his shoes on one at a time, just like the rest of us.

There aren't equivalent global awards in the other sports. The reason they're celebrated is because those guys really ARE the best at their sports in the whole world.

MLS, with 14 teams and growing, is the same size as the NFL circa 1960, the NBA circa 1968, and the NHL circa 1970. Would anyone argue that Johnny Unitas, Bill Russell, and Bobby Hull were not stars in what were considered "major" sports in terms of the American sports scene?

With regard to MJ's example, when there is a fully professional rugby league in this country (with or without Canada) with at least a dozen or so teams, then the MVP of that league should be mentioned alongside the MVPs of other sports.

Lets see.....NFL "World Champions" rule the world of the USA. NBA World Champs, pretty much the same (though there are other leagues in the world that would qualify as 'not major' in their respective countries). World Series, yeah, that is a shamockery. I give Japan some credit but not much.
So what do we end up with?? A bunch of American sports with American players that for the most part the world completely ignores.
International Baseball Player of the Year, indeed.

However that really was not the basis of the discussion, was it? MLS wants to be seen as a majo sports league in the US. And the fans want it also. The constant drubbing by ESPN referrring to the "4 major sports" in the US is getting old for most MLS fans.
The league is doing it right, growing slowly, pushing themselves into the picture. The press fights back but, it is a losing battle for them. It won't be much more than the next 20 years and soccer will be a major, major player in this country. Will that get MLS recognition in the press as a major sport???? Who cares really? Take enjoyment from the fact we have a league and it has exponential growth in its future. And if you want to hate other leagues, feel free to focus on thuggery in basketball, uneducated losers in NFL, drug enhanced babies in MLB, excrutiatingly poor management over the last 10 years in the NHL, etc, etc, etc.
Major is in the future if not already here. Do we really need a sportswriter or SportsCenter anchor to validate it for us???

I'm a rabid supporter of MLS. But the best player in MLS isn't as talented in his sport as the MVP in other sports, full frigging stop.

Why is everyone going on and on about a bunch of other sports that hold our attention for mere moments.
This blog is called Soccer Insider.
I still watch all my team's games during the NFL season regardless of how painfull it may or may not be.
My wife and I had a wonderfull courtship going to Sonics games back when GP was still in the mix.
Baseball...
I never shoulda quit.
Skateboarding: Ditto...
No baseball players could run like soccer players, neither could the "footballers"...
Without drugs not a single one of these Elite league athletes would be able to start and finish any spring classic in Cycling.
So What!
Soccer Insider.
Soccer Insider.
Soccer Insider.
That is what this blog is called.

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"Again, is the EPL or Serie A or La Liga or Bundesliga MVP award "less" significant because there are other leagues out there in the world that might be "better" or the pre-eminent league?"

Nobody gives a damn about the equivalent of "MVP" in those leagues because the prestige of those awards are insignificant compared to FIFA World Footballer of the Year.
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i don't think you can prove that "nobody gives a damn" about the top-player award in the EPL or Serie A or La Liga. I would venture that some feel the "FIFA World Footballer of the Year" is a sham/popularity contest that doesn't really represent achievement on the field. but that perhaps is another discussion.

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the best player in MLS isn't as talented in his sport as the MVP in other sports.
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MVP is a "LEAGUE" award, not a "sport" award.

by not including United (and its MVP-winners) in the discussion is not a slight against "the sport" of soccer. it is a slight against MLS as "a league."

again, are we really not going to starting "counting" or "listing" MLS MVP award winners until they start to win the ""FIFA World Footballer of the Year" award?

i would hope not.

try to put the discussion in the proper context.

Here's a fine example of context:
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MLS, with 14 teams and growing, is the same size as the NFL circa 1960, the NBA circa 1968, and the NHL circa 1970. Would anyone argue that Johnny Unitas, Bill Russell, and Bobby Hull were not stars in what were considered "major" sports in terms of the American sports scene?
---

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There aren't equivalent global awards in the other sports.
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so let's penalize (and completely disregard the award-winners from) MLS for being the top tier US(Canadian) league for a global sport.

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The reason they're celebrated is because those guys really ARE the best at their sports in the whole world.
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only if you believe that there are no other (and perhaps better) baseball players or basketball players elsewhere in the world.

my point is that I know that other soccer players (and perhaps hockey, baseball, basketball players) playing in leagues outside of the US/Canada might be (or are) "better/more-talented" players than the domestic league's MVP.

but to look at this from the league-level (as what the MVP award does), seems like the proper context when discussing MVPs.

Could someone make the argument that scoring 60 goals in the NHL is "a better accomplishment" than scoring 20 goals in MLS? probably. could someone make the argument that the MLS MVP isn't as good or "as talented" as other footballers playing club soccer in Europe or elsewhere? yes. and someone could make the argument (as MJ did earlier) that there are perhaps better hockey players in the Russian league right now.

the point for me, is that MVP is a "league accomplishment."

any observation or analysis beyond that is unnecessary. i recognize and appreciate MLS, so I recognize and appreciate the MLS MVPs. no, some of them may not be "great" or "world-class" players, but the contribution to and excellence in MLS is worth respecting as a fan. it's unfortunate that others want to look at it differently -- or not at all.

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