The Trail: A Daily Diary of Campaign 2008

To give credit where it is due, the Debates are not doing it for me. Too many people sticking to their pregenerated sound bites with few exceptions. On the Republican side of the fence, Romney is just too canned, too obvious in his responses; Brownback, well, we all know what he is going to say before he even opens his mouth (more like bush everyday); Rudi is charming and all that, but he is a recording with the needle stuck in a single groove; Huckabee, original and some what out of sinc

Ambabardy, democratic contenders are very different indeed. For example, if Mrs. Clinton is elected, it would be something like a civil war(of bigger or smaller scale). She was an actve White supemacist back during her youth, she has the same core now. On the contrary, the election of Barack Obama would mean at least the serious attempt of the proper racial integration. The same should be true about foreign policies. Mrs. Clinton has been supportive to Bush administration's foreign policies. She should continue to do IT, if elected. Barack Obama has voiced the changes to these policies to get alone with the basic common sense and the rest of the civilized world, he would do IT, if elected.

So Milbrooks (above) will not vote for Clinton, Biden, or Richardson because they are too much like "Republicans", but also says he would vote for a Republican instead. Yep, THAT makes sense.

Republican frauds are so easy to spot.

Any of the Democratic candidates is better for America, for the bottom 99% that is, than any of the Republican candidates. This hideous War For Oil has to end, and none of the Republican candidates will do that. Domestic Issues that affect the lives of ordinary people have to be addressed (health care, jobs, etc.), and none of the Republican candidates will do that. The courts, especially the Supreme Court, need to be corrected to balance the influence of the political extremists put in place by Bushco, and none of the Republican candidates will do that.

To even have a shot at salvaging what is left of this beautiful country, America must elect a Democrat in '08.

Biden,Clinton,Dodd & Edwards voted for the war. Biden & Dodd have over 60 years of senatorial experience. Hillary claims her 8 years as 1st Lady (though I don't know why that qualifies as experience) & one term as a senator gives her the necessary experience to lead the country. As Obama pointed out that "experience" helped get us into the worst foreign policy debacle in over 30 years. Unless the sound on my tv was altered, Hillary got the most boos of any candidate when she said a president should not say what's on his mind. More and more I see the so-called experts giving her a pass on statements she makes. Most Americans agree with Obama that we should not fear to talk to adversaries. It's the pundits, Washington insiders and right-wing radicals who need all the preconditions. I've heard experience defined as what you learn from the mistakes you make. When you pit experience against sound judgement,give me sound judgement every time.

I find it unbelievable that Hillary can just walk through this primary season with no one questioning her lack of real specific plans. The media jumped all over Obama as all style and no substance. He has delivered a real detailed plan about what he would do about the health care problems in this country. John Edwards has done the same.

Is HRC able to just skip to the next round without delivering what appears to be required of every other serious candidate? Where is the questioning from the media?

No wonder the national press and pundits think she has had a flawless campaign thus far. She is not held to account for the fact that she supported the war until it became publicly and politically unpopular. The media just goes along w/ her "evolving" position on Iraq and that she was authorizing Bush to conduct greater diplomacy. Now, she says health care is her #1 domestic priority? Where's the plan and where's the media scrutiny?

I don't care whose "girl" she is. I care about what she plans to do for the country. If the primaries are an audition, then I do not buy her as credible in the role.

snow white and her seven dwarfs could not have been better played - hillary got the cheers, the boos, and the attention; the other candidates were all about getting noticed, either by beating up on each other or by making strident campaign speeches instead of answering questions.

Trippi on board Edwards' campaign is a plus? Maybe, but already one blunder has happened.

The Dump Gonzlaes petition on Edwards' site is a mistake. A Dump Gonzales petition ought to be a national, non-partisan issue, certainly not a Democratic candidate's campaign issue.

By trying to own the issue on their site, and the Edwards petition was far from the first such petition, many otherwise potential signers will be offput and the campaign site looks a little sleazy.

If Edwards is so comfortable with a method that may do good for his campaign but at the expense of the national interest, he's not my candidate.

Blunder. Someone did not think it through very well.

Wowsers... Some nasty comments going on.. and I find that most of them are not supported, but hey at least we are talking.

Hey the truth I see about some of these candidates comes across like this; for the most part they are all good people with honorable intentions. What we are looking for here is who amongst ALL candidates seems the most rational, right? Unfortunately, all the candidates have some rough edges, but I don't get the negativity coming out of some of these responses from the readers. What are these candidates doing that is so bad, trying to build a better future? I mean come on, they all have some good messages, they just have carisma issues. So, what I'm saying is just relax, enjoy the debates because they are good and they are valuable to us as citizens. Come primaries and the election, we are going to know these candidates fairly well. I think this is a great time for change and we are going to get a great president next time around. Money can't buy who is doing awesome on stage for two years. These candidates are going to have to represent their track records over and over throughout these months to come.

Open your ears. Oh yeah, check out http://www.vote-smart.org/ This website has non biased fact sheets about nearly every candidate and active office holder for all levels of government across the entire nation. So, I guess I'm asking you to also open your eyes.

Peace.

What really happened in Chicago? Did the Gravel campaign not do the paperwork, or did the AFL-CIO exclude Mike? If it were me, invited or not, I would have shown up at Soldier Field and demanded to be heard,just like Ralph Nader tried to do years ago. He was asked to leave or be arrested. Can you image the amount of press a Presidential candidate that gets arrested for not being able to speak at a debate would get?

I think the first thing that everyone needs to know about these debates is that they won't matter much by 2008; few will remember or care what was said at this point.

I think both parties have made a huge mistake trying to get the nomination decided so early; a long, bloody primary process, dragged from February to mid-summer, culminating with a convention selection, allowed for two things. First and foremost,it allowed for vetting prior to the Presidential race, and allowed candidates to answer the "swift-boat" style attacks during the run-up. Secondly, it allowed for candiidates to better shape talking points in front of regionally varying audiences within their own party before taking them to the electorate at large.

Both parties have candidates with serious downsides. The Dems aren't using these debates to bring up issues like the missing Rose Law Firm documents; something that will surely resurface when the Republicans face Hillary head-on. The Republican debators are treating Rudy's infidelity and multiple marriages with kid-gloves; something the Dems will manage to work in every time Rudy tries morals-and-patriotism themes that have been the hallmarks of Republican campaigns since '80. Both parties (and America)would be better off with no-hlds barred debating closer to the actual vote,and then letting the conventions decide who is actually most capable of leading and winning.

NMP1 -

LOL! Now...that would have been a notable quotable...

In reply to danders5000 "Tell your boy he is wasting money by fronting you all to come out against Hillary". I say what boy and what money? I simply stated a FACT and that was HRC is NOT my candidate of choice. In fact, I would not vote for her if she was the ONLY candidate. Anna

I also noticed the boos Hillary received. Remember, though, this was Chicago, and Obama is her arch-rival.

It's truly a shame that nobody takes Kucinich seriously. He and Ron Paul are the only two people out there with anything even resembling an original thought...or huevos.

Biggest disappointment was Biden. He's impressed me so many times, but came off as arrogant and nasty at Soldier's Field.

Finally: it seems more and more like we will not be electing a president in 15 months, but rather someone who will play the role of president on television. Can we please have Al Gore back now?

With all that hideous ranting, Billary reminded me of someone. Hmmmmmm...
let's see. Was it Himmler? Goering?

Just a quick post...
\
From amy.fried...
"I have to say that you're the one playing the gender card. If a male candidate said, "I'm your guy," and alluded to a reception the previous evening, I seriously doubt that you would read ANYTHING sexual or gender-related into the remarks."

Amy.fried is exactly correct! Hillary is slammed for things that no male candidate would ever be questioned about.
Hey America... Hilary Clinton is a Women... get over it!!
Tom

Ms. Clinton comes across as scary - calculating, willing to trash anyone and anything, do whatever it takes to win, but doesn't have the slightest idea of what it will take to lead. The candidates that actually cme across as leaders are Edwards, Obama, and Kucinich. I hope one of them is our eventual nominee. Otherwise, I'm going to vote for a third party candidate...or even Republican. Under no circumstances will I ever even consider voting for Biden, Clinton or Richardson. They are simply dressed up Republican's.

According to Sen. Clinton, the candidates should not discuss what they would do to combat al Queda, which is again on the upsurge. How are we supposed to know which candidate has a better understanding and smarter plan if they don't discuss it? By their past voting records? Let's not go down that road of "trust me" to make you safe...we've had enough of that with Bush and the congress handling of the Iraq war.

I thought Biden was great. Especially when he corrected Obama who referred to the Prime Minister of Canada as Canada's President.

Friendly fire. The republicans should try it.

I too hated the "I'm your girl" comment. It sounded like something Phyllis Schafly would say.

Can't we go back to the old convention days? The Democrats & Republicans Debates are pure torture. They never answer any questions. We have another year of this???

This is such a mistake for our country. It is also why we are getting such crappy candidates from BOTH SIDES. And if you are honest with yourself there are NO GOOD Candidates on either side.

Give it back to the Parties to wheel & Deal and we will get a better candidate out of both parties!

Obama will be just as a good a president as any other democrat running and might be better. Hillary should keep her same ole same ole as usual poltics in the senate where she can't cause as much damage to this country as she would if she were elected president.

Well, I sure need some of what booeysplooge is having.

The dem debates are a charade.

The fix was in for Hillary from the first day she announced she was running for senator.

Its amazing how the mainstream media is still portraying this as some type of real political event.

What a joke!

None of these cowards have the cajones to
take Hillary out because they are afraid of Clinton Inc.

I feel sorry for you dems that support Obama because he has no chance to win
and I feel sorry for all you dems in general because Hillary is going to get slaughterd by the GOP candidate.

Oh, come on! If one of the other candidates had said "I'm your man," nobody would have thought a thing about it. No matter how she refers to herself, or how she is referred to, people fuss about it if it has anything to do with gender. Truth is that we aren't used to hearing it, and we had better get used to it. Whether HRC is the next president or not, there continue to be more and more women in positions of power, and it's time we got over these hangups.

Puh-leeze all of you Rovies- Tell your boy he is wasting money by fronting you all to come out against Hillary - The more you Boo and jeered her the higher her numbers goes in the poll. Sort of like this - the more we the public boo and jeered Bush - the stubborn he gets. I am putting my money on the girl!!

I kept waiting for someone in a costume to approach the panel then realized they were all clowns and had little original to say.

I kept waiting for someone in a costume to approach the panel then realized they were all clowns and had little original to say.

The line of the night was Obama's push back at those "experienced" Senators on stage who each enabled George Bush and his war by following the polls and voting to authorize the War in Iraq. Now they are following the polls again in backing away from their votes. I don't know enough about Biden, Dodd, or Edwards to surmise whether they really thought a war of aggression against Iraq made sense in 2003. But I do know that their judgment has been exposed as naive and dangerous. But its hard to think that Hillary - who talks about her volunteer efforts for McCarthy and McGovern in 1968 and 1972 - did not know the folly of wading into this mideast quagmire. She certainly knew better, but cast her vote for the war simply to perserve her political viability, not unlike her Husband's manipulation of the Arkansas draft board all those years ago.

How exactly did Hilary 'win' the debate if she was booed and jeered more than any of the other candidates?

I was disappointed in Clinton's remark "I'm your girl" because she is not my girl! In my opinion, this statement was more than ridiculous.

Really very disappointed the NAFTA Treaty that the Clintons signed into law back in 1993 was not pushed harder so we could get opinions from all the candidates on this topic.

Anna

I wish that I could get past the hair issues with John Edwards. I know it's superficial. I know it shouldn't matter. But I just can't accept a guy who spends that much on his coiffe as an advocate for the poor. I'm sure some of the other candidates spend their fair share on appearances too, but they're not running a rich people suck campaign. I'm also still bugged that he bragged about his kid makin fun of a classmate for buying shoes at Wal-Mart. I know he was pushing a labor issue, but it seems there is a better way to go about it then making poor little kids feel bad about their dad's not being able to take them shopping at Nordstrom.

I hate to disappoint you Dan but according to a Time's article Edwards rated a B+ together with Obama and Clinton. We shall see how he goes in the race.

The Barry Bonds question was just stupid. Obama was great.
What stuck me most is that the Republican field could NEVER handle a crowd like that, just as they fear the You Tube format. Paul and McCain could handle confrontation but the rest of them are mental midgets. They are not going to get back the independent voters if they keep towing the Bush Party Line.

The Republican debate Sunday was a total joke with only Ron Paul showing that he has the ability to think clearly. Rudy came off as the fascist bully that he is with his idiotic "Democrats don't use the term War on Islamist Extremism" so that means they are wimps B.S. Come on Rudy, if you want anyone other than the 29% of inbred fools who support Bush to vote for you, you better start realizing that there are people out here that who can see right through your phony attempts to appear that you have any knowledge of foriegn policy. Ask any New Yorker and they will tell you that life with Rudy as Mayor SUCKED. Even his kid's hate him- that's not gonna help you in a national campaign. If a Democratic front-runner had as much baggage as this guy, he would be eviscerated by the Righties.

Romney was as fake and one-dimensional as ever. McCain just looks really sad up there defending this senseless war.
All these guys just don't have a clue - or a chance- as far as I am concerned.

Goldie2 raises a key question about Hillary: "Can she really win against the Republican nominee if she can't hold the independent vote?"

The answer is no. I'm a Democratic leaning independent, but there's very little chance I'll ever cast a vote in her favor.

We're already closing in on twenty years of two family rule -- Bush and Clinton. And those twenty years have been incredible divisive. She's asking us to sign on to 8 more years of the same.

She would have to be incredibly good for me to sign on to that bargain. Unfortunately for her she just isn't. She's a cynical politician who moved to New York because it had an easy open seat; who voted to go to war in Iraq without even reading the national intelligence estimate because at the time that seamed the best move politically.

No, I don't think America needs that kind of experience. She's not my girl.

As an independent leaning democrat, here is my scorecard from last night's debate: Hillary a clear winner followed closely by Biden; Dodd and Richardson both a distant third. Kucinich played to his constituancy, but not the general electorate. Edwards should do himself a favor, take his campaign funds and go home. If I hear the story of the cleft palate one more time, I will barf. As for Obama, he reminds me of the neocons in Washington who never wore a uniform. When he talks of going into Pakistan after Bin Laden he is showing he doesn't know anything about logistics, geography, indigenous population or getting along with allies, no matter how frustrating. In other words, Obama ain't ready for prime time.

As an independent leaning democrat, here is my scorecard from last night's debate: Hillary a clear winner followed closely by Biden; Dodd and Richardson both a distant third. Kucinich played to his constituancy, but not the general electorate. Edwards should do himself a favor, take his campaign funds and go home. If I hear the story of the cleft palate one more time, I will barf. As for Obama, he reminds me of the neocons in Washington who never wore a uniform. When he talks of going into Pakistan after Bin Laden he is showing he doesn't know anything about logistics, geography, indigenous population or getting along with allies, no matter how frustrating. In other words, Obama ain't ready for prime time.

Nice.. very nice.... I like. Well, I have to say that after this debate and the most recent republican debate I have some favorites.

Let me begin with the GOP candidates. Romney looks and talks like a president, but that is it. McCain just is not a public speaker and is too adament about winning the war in Iraq. Rudy, not so bad. He'll be able to reach across party lines, but he is not in touch with the american mainstream. Huckabee, is non threatening and wants to end the war as well as Ron Paul. The rest of them, forget about it.

To sum it up, independents that lean GOP will more likely follow Rudy, Huckabee or Ron Paul becasue these candidates are moderates and could be democrats based on their presidential goals.

Onto the democrats. Obama has lost some of his magic on the stage. Biden is scary. Edwards is shaping up. The campaign scars or making him stronger. Bill, just not so much. Kucinich is a pleasure to watch. Hillary is cool.

To sum it up, I like all the democratic candidates and I am glad they are serving where they are in public office. I can't say that about all the GOP candidates all though I do like most of them. Anyhow, I hope most of you are keeping an open mind. If you are looking for unity, you need to keep watching all the candidates from all parties. And I say this because I feel disconnected with many of my fellow Americans. There needs to be someone that makes sense to all of us, because we can't sustain this division in the U.S. for much longer. It is starting to eat at our souls.

It was good to see and hear Obama telling off the Democrats for jumping all over him about his Pakistan stance. What makes it sad is that he couldn't say that his position is no different than what Bush is doing without owning up to it:

http://ajliebling.blogspot.com/2007/08/breaking-bush-obama-language-barrier.html

I've never heard so much whining from questioners: I should get this from the government and I should get that from the government and what are the Democrats going to give me and why isn't the country giving me that? My God, is this what the country has come to? A bunch of helpless whiners who need big government to put their shoes on for them?

Joe Biden is gunning for the #2 spot.

I was actually expecting him and Richardson to go after Edwards from the first debate.

So it took Biden until August to do Clinton's dirty work. So what?

Hillary Clinton was terrible last night. That answer about "my girl" was not the highlight of the night. She was defensive and shrill all night.

John Edwards is not the Howard Dean of the race. John Edwards + Barack Obama = Howard Dean.

Maybe because Edwards "IS" in fact the outsider since the establishment Democrats, the Republican establishment, and the establishment media all hate his guts, as well as the corporate lobbyists who run DC. If that doesn't make him an outsider, then nothing will.

Obama is like Dean because he PEAKED so early, and is the most likely to fall flat on his face.

Edwards (outsider / sick of the DC culture) + Obama's ascendancy = Dean-like

I'm surprised there was no mention of questioner Steve Skvara, which brought the entire audience to a thundrous, standing ovation. Easily the most poignant moment of all the debates so far.

krusequirk,

And imagine what the reaction would have been if Senator Obama had yelled, "I'm your brotha'"? There would have been a collective gasp heard around the world!

ken_berlin,

No, what Obama exposed is how the media will resort to race-baiting. What the heck does Barry Bonds have to do with the presidency? And why was the question fielded to Senator Obama? What's next, a question of whether he'll set up dog fighting in the WH basement?

Stupidest group of candidates ever assembled. My God, they are morons.

Personally I found it way more boring than the YouTube debate. And I'm 47 ... and a Dem PCO.

Mike Gravel was certainly missed, and if he wasn't missed by the labor union people or the unfortunates who've bought into Hillary Clinton or Barrack Obama (hook, line, and sinker) it is only because he makes people uncomfortable.

Whoever wrote this post (didn't see a name) has reinforced the impotent debate structure that squelches conversation between the candidates almost entirely. Someone on this board said this was a soundbite circus, and anyone who doesn't realize the truth in that statement ought not cast a vote in 2008. The top two candidates were handpicked from the beginning so that people wouldn't have to learn any other names.

I've read the Post for years, and quite frankly, I'm disgusted with their coverage of the campaign/debates. They bolster the big names like everyone else and make condescending remarks about Dark Horse candidates.

I'm your GIRL?!!! What's next - a late night slumber party with Condi Rice where they talk about shoes, nails and gossip about Bill and George?

Why the media is lauding this ridiculous three-steps-back for women everywhere is beyond me, truly.

Also, it is interesting to me that no one has brought up the Los Alamos security problem when Bill Richardson was Energy Secretary. He never took responsibility for that snafu. He just doesn't impress me at all, experience or not.

I have to say that you're the one playing the gender card. If a male candidate said, "I'm your guy," and alluded to a reception the previous evening, I seriously doubt that you would read ANYTHING sexual or gender-related into the remarks.

You have taken general, gender-neutral comments and viewed them through your gender-tinted lens.

Obama showed he is just another politician with his ducking of an easy response to a softball question about Barry Bonds. Edwards is too full of himself and somewhat phony, especially regarding the picket lines. I thought Joe Biden was the best candidate. Intelligent, thoughtful, experienced. Too bad he isn't from California or NY. He'd have it locked. Hillary remains good. I would like to see a Clinton-Biden ticket. Mike Gravel is just too loud and angry at everything, and I was glad he wasn't there. And I always enjoy Dennis Kucinich. Nice to see someone up there who can say the truth without worrying about the political consequences.

Clinton's line that is quoted here, that she's the girl to fight the GOP and win, raises her biggest weakness which is the independent vote. Can she really win against the Republican nominee if she can't hold the independent vote? They don't like her. And her attacks on Obama over targeting Al Qaeda will make that worse. She is painting herself into a John Kerry box and will get cornered in the general election because she is not a candidate beyond the Democratic Base. Her negatives are too high with the Republican and independent voters. It may be impossible to change their minds. Meanwhile Obama's views, especially on the targeting Al Qaeda issue makes him very appealing to the independent mind, especially when the Republicans are joining Clinton in denouncing Obama over it. I can't believe Romney and McCain are saying they won't target Al Qaeda. Romney says its bombing our allies. Is Al Qaeda our ally? The Republicans just don't make sense.

Biden needs to do more of this to break out of the pack, and direct his fire at the frontrunners, not just Edwards.

The idea that being Bill Clinton's wife or having been in the Senate for all of two years provides preparation to be President comparable to Biden's experience is not merely wrong. It's a little embarrassing that so many people who ought to know better take it seriously. But Biden's window to make this point isn't a big one. He can't make the mistake of assuming that voters will understand what may be obvious to him if he doesn't make his case in plain, vivid language.

This is a good roundup of the debate. The campaign is at an interesting juncture for being as far from the primaries as it is. It's hinted at in the article, but it's interesting how the second-tier candidates are beginning to fray or be consumed. Will Edward's campaign end in a Dean-like scream of frustration (instead of out of control excitement)? Will Biden and Dodd fold into Hillary's "experience camp" out of frustration at Obama and Edwards' outsider insurgency? Will Kucinich slowly fade away, still smiling, as the debating heat turns up?

Most importantly, what can the second-tier candidates do to avoid these predictable outcomes?

Is it fair to call these events "debates". With these folks talking past one another most of the time, I'd suggest calling it an "Extended Soundbite" Convention.

Who said nobody missed Mike Gravel? You are sadly mistaken, I missed Mike and there are many more that missed him. Maybe he could have told America about the General Strike Sept 11, 2007 to get us out of Iraq and to protest our human rights lost under Bush.