If It's Good Enough For Mickey, Why Not For Paul?
Pirate's booty valid at Walt Disney World. (Walt Disney World News).
News of a federal raid last week on a "sound money" outfit that is selling "Ron Paul Dollars," reported in Saturday's Post, is generating no end of quips in the blogosphere about what this development says about the Paul campaign's eye-popping recent fundraising success. Wags ask: How much of that record $4.2 million one-day haul that Paul collected earlier this month actually came in the form of dubloons imprinted with Paul's face, not U.S. legal tender?
But these jokes may be missing the point entirely. In fact, the lack of confidence that many Paul supporters have in U.S. currency may well be one reason why they are sending so many of their greenbacks to Paul's campaign, and thereby making his outsider libertarian bid for the Republican presidential nomination a force to be reckoned with. For sound-money supporters who fear a coming collapse in the value of the dollar, it makes eminent sense to send a few hundred dollars to the one candidate who is arguing for a monetary revolution, instead of simply watching that money rapidly crumble in value.
As Exhibit A, consider Peter Schiff, a financial adviser and sound-money advocate whose Connecticut firm, Euro Pacific Capital, specializes in investing clients' money in overseas assets to spare them what he argues will be a destructive decline in the value of the dollar followed by major deterioration in the U.S. economy. Schiff, who earlier this year published the investment guide "Crash Proof," recently sent out a "call to action" e-mail to the 60,000 people in his database urging them to send the $2,300 maximum-allowed contribution to Paul's campaign, describing this as one of the most productive uses for their rapidly fading U.S. dollars.
"If you are fortunate enough to be one of my clients, writing a $2,300 check should not be a problem. As I have likely made you tons of money over the years, here is an opportunity to donate some of it to a worthy cause. We have made our money by betting against the U.S and betting against the dollar. Giving $2,300 of our winnings to Ron Paul gives us the opportunity to bet ON America for a change. And it's a bet none of us can afford to lose, and the best part about it is that if we all make this bet together we can't lose," Schiff wrote in the e-mail. "My penchant for foreign investments has from time to time caused some of my critics to label me unpatriotic. While such attacks are clearly out of line, using some of our foreign profits to secure the election of Ron Paul goes a long way toward defusing such allegations. If you are not a client and you think $2,300 is a lot of money, it's not. In fact, if Ron Paul is not our next President, such a sum will be practically worthless by the end of the term of whoever is. So what do you have to lose? Just write the check and hope for the best."
In an interview today, Schiff said he expects that the federal raid on the National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve and Internal Revenue Code had added more weight to his argument for giving to the Paul campaign. "The federal government is debasing the currency and then it comes in and punishes people who are doing something to protect themselves," he said. "The fact that these guys would come in and raid this organization shows how much they've got to fear from this. If more and more people start shunning the currency, it takes away from their power."
Norfed, which is based in Evansville, Ind., says that in the last decade it has put into circulation more than $20 million in "Liberty Dollars," metal medallions and paper certificates that it says are backed by silver and gold stored in Idaho. The group's founder and director, Bernard von NotHaus, says that federal agents seized more than 50,000 copper "Ron Paul Dollars" that the group was selling for $1, in addition to smaller amounts of silver Ron Paul Dollars that sold for $20, gold ones that went for $1,000 and platinum ones that went for $2,000. Agents also raided the Idaho minting company that makes the organization's medallions, seizing the huge pallets of silver and gold stored there, von NotHaus said.
The FBI and U.S. Attorney's office in western North Carolina, which is handling the case, have declined to comment on the raids, but an affidavit filed in Asheville earlier this month describes a two-year long undercover investigation of the group, based partly on evidence obtained by an informant who posed as someone wanting to become a regional associate for the group. The affidavit states the group is being investigated for federal violations including "uttering coins of gold, silver or other metal" and "making of possessing likenesses of coins." "The goal of Norfed is to undermine the United States goverment's financial systems by the issuance of a non-governmental competing currency," the affidavit states.
This argument met with ridicule over the weekend from the prolific on-line network of Ron Paul supporters and sound money advocates, some of whom sarcastically predicted that the feds would next be going after Disneyworld for selling "Disney Dollars" for use inside the amusement park. "Here is a Mickey Mouse coin issued by that criminal, separatist organization, the Walt Disney Corporation. Did someone fail Common Sense 101?" wrote one commenter on the Post's Web site, offering a link to an image of the offending Mickey dubloon. Wrote another, "With commemorative coins advertised in every Sunday newspaper, and given the Donald Duck silver coins sold at Disney Land, this is an obvious attack on Ron Paul, a legitimate Presidential candidate, by the Federal Government. I am going to respond by going to Ron Paul's web site, easily found with Google, and giving $100 today."
Lawrence White, an economics professor at the University of Missouri-St. Louis, said Liberty Dollar supporters had a point in charging overreaction on the part of the federal government. The question to be asked of Liberty Dollars, he said, is whether they make any sense for customers to buy -- while the certificates may offer a hedge for those convinced that the dollar will go in the tank, they come with the obvious downside that it is difficult to find others willing to accept the Liberty Dollars as a legal tender (though not in Berryville, Ark., where, according to the chamber of commerce, about half of the town's 80 merchants accept Liberty Dollars.)But that choice should be up to Americans to make, White said. "Unless they think people are being defrauded, it seems absurd to me," he said of the raid."The public ought to have a choice. Thank goodness we have an alternative to the post office."
A spokesman for the U.S. Mint responded to questions today by pointing reporters to the "consumer alerts" portion of its Web site, which carries warnings against using Liberty Dollars alongside warnings against mistaking as legitimate currency coins including: "Silver surfer" quarters created to help market the Fox movie "Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer"; a "Freedom Tower Silver Dollar" originating from the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands; and an "Elvis Presley 25th Anniversary Tennessee State Quarter Tribute."
A Paul campaign spokesman, Jesse Benton, today reiterated that the campaign has no connection with the Ron Paul Dollars (though supporters have taken pictures of grinning Paul next to the coins.) He said the campaign is seeing an "uptick" in Web site visits and contributions following reports of the raid. The real test of the campaign's fundraising strength, though, will come next month, when supporters are organizing another one-day fundraising "bomb" timed with the anniversary of the Boston Tea Party.
Von NotHaus is doing his part, urging on his Web site (which he says has seen a huge spike in traffic) that supporters respond to the raid by contributing to Paul, as well as urging them to sign up as part of a class-action lawsuit against the federal government over the coin seizures. He is biding his time at his home in Miami, expecting to be arrested and indicted sometime in the near future. In fact, he said today that he is kind of hoping that the government makes its move sooner than later, so eager is he to make a stand on the part of sound money theories.
"I'm sure I'm going to be arrested, and I'd be disappointed if I'm not," he said. "I want to get going. I think it's going to be exciting."
--Alec MacGillis
Posted at 3:24 PM ET on Nov 19, 2007
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Posted by: Tancred1 | January 6, 2008 1:32 AM
The liberty dollar has been around since 1998... it is used by merchants, but ever since the mint "warning" last year it has been less popular. Plus, getting people to accept that money made of silvedr is more valuable than money made of paper is not the slam dunk one would expect it to be.
As a consequence of the raid, Liberty Dollars are very scarce. On ebay the Ron Paul Libertys are going for $300-$500 each! Many people are scrambling to get Liberty Dollar Certificates so that they can join the class action lawsuit (as the silver backing the certificates were confiscated in the raid.) The store that sells collectable Libertys (going back to 1999) is having a liquidation sale- http://www.LibertyDollarUSA.com And with no more being minted until the end of any legal proceedings, it may be quite awhile before the prices of Libertys come back down. Even common Libertys are going on ebay for $40-$50!
Posted by: nospam3 | November 23, 2007 5:35 AM
The 16th Amendment which illegally established the Neo-Fascist Federal Reserve NEVER passed 2/3rds "Muster" by the States. Congress needs to do nothing with an Amendment that is illegal to begin with.
Just watch Aaron Russo's documentary: "America: Freedom to Fascism." It will explain in simple terms about the ILLEGAL FED and the 16th Amendment.
As a side note, the "U.S. Constitution" Art. I, Sec 10, specifically says "Coins", not "Paper."
Posted by: rrmartinjr | November 21, 2007 5:08 PM
Ron Paul is the only person who can fix the mess in the USA. Which is precisely why he has no chances of being elected President. (Well, less than 4%, to be precise.)
The fall of the USA is historically inevitable. This is no conspiracy; it's a law of nature. The same historical forces that made possible for a moron like Dubya to be elected (and re-elected) as President won't allow (at the current point of history) an intelligent man like Ron Paul to be elected.
Posted by: wp.20.bontchev | November 21, 2007 3:23 PM
As a Ron Paul supporter who harkens out of the moderate Republican stream, I do wish that some of the other Ron Paul supporters might begin to broaden their political discourse. First of all, any sub-literate voter understands that the President may not do away with the Federal Reserve, at least not without violating the Constitution. Sorry to disappoint those who believe the President has a magic wand. If there is any magic wand it is called building consensus in Congress...
Posted by: Colorado872 | November 21, 2007 3:15 AM
Isaiah called unto the people of Judah "the faithful city had become a prostitute! She was (once) full of justice; (with) righteousness lodged in her, but now murderers." He warned them that their "silver had become dross" and that "their wine" was "mixed with water." That their "princes are rebellious, and companions of thieves. Everyone loves bribes, and follows after rewards They don't judge the fatherless, neither does the cause of the widow come to them"
Notice how the sins of Judah's rulers and the sins of America's rulers are the same. They had and We have:
Murderers in our Capitol
A Debased currency (Silver that has become dross)
AND, Judges that seek bribes and gifts and then pass false judgment.
In light of this, it should be no surprise that federal agents so brazenly attacked and robbed Mr. NotHaus and his customers who only wished to preserve their wealth by investing their labor in Gold and Silver backed Liberty Dollars.
What is surprising though is that the American people continue to stand by and let this happen. One can only suspect that American's tolerate such treatment because they have been conditioned to not stand up to an abusive government. They have been conditioned to believe their rights come from their government, and not from their creator! This is an ignorant condition that has brainwashed a once proud nation, a condition induced at the hands of our government, the press, the Main Stream Media and our failing public education system.
As a country that used to pride itself in "Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness" through limited "government of the people, by the people, for the people" and "the Rule Of Law", we must realize (and many do) that our first course of action should be to take control of our "Silver" back from those who would debase it, and make our Government do its' limited Job of protecting our property, lives, individual rights, and monetary system.
In our case, we must take the power to create money back from The Federal Reserve System and self-serving politicians (that use the power of the Federal Reserve) to prop up a banking and military industrial oligarchy (above our form of government) which in turn suppresses the American people while driving the middle class to insolvency and poverty, and the poor to starvation. For it is only through the power to debase our currency - or print money out of thin air like the The Federal Reserve system enables - that our rulers are able to fund never ending wars, a Leviathan Police State, and get away with Murder and False Judgment against not only the American people, but the rest of humanity!
At such a crucial time in our nation's history, we are lucky (through divine providence as I see it) that among the field of candidates for President in 2008, we have Congressman Ron Paul. A Statesman steeped in both Liberty AND Sound Monetary Policies. We also have through divine providence an awakening electorate, that must not stop with electing one honest statesman, but who must hold our other elected officials responsible or vote them out. God willing we can take our country back... for us, and our children! May god speed our victory in 2008!
---
BTW, thank you for an excellent piece Alec! It is refreshing to see some real journalism in the press.
Posted by: lazarus | November 21, 2007 3:10 AM
To g.trieb,
That's quite a logical leap, to equate "critizising"(sp)the dollar to anti-semitism, and free speaking individual citizens committed to American ideals to Hitler group thinkers.
If your logic is as good as your spelling, I would not risk another post, lest your logic be justifiably trivialized by the intellect and reasoning of Ron Paul advocates who tear fallacious arguments to shreds.
See for yourself the surgical precision of Ron Paul supporters as they dismiss fallacies at http://comments.realclearpolitics.com/read/1/4676/4741.html#msg-4741
True Americans despise lack of free competition in anything, from ideas to currency. You strike me as someone who enjoys privilege by suppressing competition with ad hominem attacks. That's a sure way to lose friends and create enemies.
Posted by: Scrooge | November 21, 2007 1:26 AM
Most of the comments above seem to be extremely anti-semitic. Critizising the USDollar and favoring a "honest" money which most probably is an illegal currency is not far from Hitler's approach on the issue. The FBI was right. It should not allow America to become anti-semitic. It's already sufficient to have all those anti-semitic news in almost all of the media emphasizing the alleged suffering of the Palestinians. All this is pure deception to make the neocons look like the bad guys.
Posted by: g.trieb | November 20, 2007 9:53 PM
Comment on: "It'd be easier to put the circled 'V' in red on all your dollars! Wouldn't it be cool to get money with the 'V' on there??"
Done in indelible ink the note might be unusable in a vending machine. This could be a technicality that makes the note "unfit for reissue" which the FBI would hunt you down for, although, they seem to have enough trouble with one guy, OBL.
There is no way they could go after a million Guy Fawkes wannabees. If they caught even one V slasher, the headlines would create a million more.
These are most interesting times in which we live.
The striking Hollywood writers could not script a movie as exciting as current events surrounding Ron Paul's storming the Oval Office with a little help from his friends, We the People.
Posted by: Scrooge | November 20, 2007 3:20 PM
LEGAL NOTICE
I would echo my good forum-friend skefboomer on encouraging your positive treatment of the subject while cautioning you on use of legal terms.
Please be advised that referring to Liberty Dollars as "coins" (as you did twice), and implying that users would have reason to "find others willing to accept the Liberty Dollars as a legal tender", are libelous charges, which you have presumably committed by simple error. (I am unfamiliar with the other third-party mint issues you also describe as "coins", so cannot speak to the accuracy of the term in those cases.)
Your statements improperly prejudge the principals, von NotHaus and Liberty Dollar (no longer called Norfed), as having broken 18 USC 486, the very law they are under investigation for.
The principals make very clear that their private mint issues are not legally "coins", which means government issues, and they do not encourage anyone to find others willing to accept them as legal tender (which, by definition, is mandatory). Rather, users are free to find others willing to voluntarily accept them as barter. Indeed, to "find others willing to accept the Liberty Dollars as a legal tender" would be a criminal activity.
To protect yourself from legal ramifications, please correct your article immediately by changing the word "coin" to "medallion" and changing "as a legal tender" to "on par with legal tender", just as a rival news site made similar corrections upon my request at http://wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58739 . Thank you.
Posted by: john | November 20, 2007 2:58 PM
To be even more baffled by the Feds' singling out of NORFED, take a look at an alternate currency in Ithaca NY: http://www.ithacahours.org/
or look at what was done in the Berkshires in 1991: http://www.smallisbeautiful.org/local_currencies/video_index.htm
Maybe NORFED's mistake was making their currency out of valuable metals.
Posted by: dj_jasonik | November 20, 2007 2:46 PM
Re: The ignorant and slanderous comment on Peter Schiff.
Europacific Capital, his brokerage firm, is a registered US brokerage firm, subject to the same applicable laws as the criminals at Bear Stearns or Merrill Lynch.
Europacific simply purchases foreign assets on the various international stock exchanges in THEIR currency, that is, the USD are converted and stock is purchased directly on those exchanges. You can purchase the same stocks through any of the corrupt large brokerage houses (and pick up some nice subprime slime bonds as well), except they will purchase them through market makers or OTC or whatever, in USD dollars.
E*trade has paid attention to Schiff and is now offering the same deal for certain exchanges. You can purchase stocks directly on the London, Toronto and Australian exchanges, for instance.
All investments and dividends remain taxable, are declared to the IRS, etc. The money is NOT being moved overseas. It is simply a way to hedge against the US dollar.
The poster is a fool.
Posted by: sed_us | November 20, 2007 2:17 PM
The raiding of the Liberty Dollar and the propaganda tatics that follow in the main stream media news only makes me want more than ever to contribute to the Ron Paul campaign and to urge others to do so! The excuse that the selling of the Liberty is an attempt to undermine the American dollar.. I don't buy that and you can bet that the wealthiest of those in this nation have purchased more than their share of Gold and Silver but they want to own it all and to keep the rest of us in poverty when the dollar actually crashes..They know that if we also own gold they can't have as much control!! It's time to stand up and fight and use the usless, fake, counterfiet, federal reserve notes to support Ron Paul in hopes that he can restore some real value to our money system!!! They know full well that if there is any fake money it is that which the Federal Reserve prints because it has no backing of real gold!!! They want to continue to run their counterfieting scheme and issuing their credit cards,Debit cards, having us to use digital currency which basically amounts to nothing more than printed digits on a computer program and yet condemn those for using the real thing!!
Posted by: ladybee43 | November 20, 2007 1:12 PM
Hitler marched across Europe stealing every bit of gold, silver, art, copper... Heck, my Father says half the U.S. G.I.s were stealing copper bus bars out of the power stations when WE came through. Now We have stolen a big oil field, and we are stealing gold and silver from our own citizens. Maybe Ron Paul is right when he say "Don't Steal. The Government Hates Competition"
Posted by: jdieter | November 20, 2007 11:21 AM
Thanks for your fair reporting!
Purchasing gold and silver coins is a way of preserving wealth as evidenced by the decline of the FRN in relation to precious metals and other international currencies.
What should also be noted is that there are currently two valid "legal tender" currencies in the USofA. Post-1986 gold and silver coins and FRNs. Of course I sure wouldn't want to buy a tank of gas with the former (as an ounce of gold is hovering around 800 FRNs), but the recent "trial" of Robert Kahre shows us that there is no longer a viable measure of a "dollar" (once a unit of weight - 371.25 grains of silver) and the IRS/DOJ couldn't get a single conviction on over 160 charges for some folks who were paid in gold and silver "US Coin".
The Federal Reserve System (making "money out of thin air since 1913) needs to go away and a return to a constitutional, precious commodity basis, needs to be restored or we'll be bringing wheelbarrows of FRNs to the bakery to buy bread like the Germans were in 1918.
Posted by: skefboomer | November 20, 2007 10:52 AM
In the affidavit issued by the NC AG's office it mentions some truly silly threats to the Federal government's monetary system. (1) $20 million dollars in Liberty silver and gold dollars undermines a currency system that runs a deficit of $9 trillion? Does the government understand the difference in one million and one trillion? (2) the silver LD looks like a one ounce platinum American Eagle or a non-circulating 1946 silver dime with FDR's profile on it? Or looks similar to a new base metal quarter sized golden dollar? What stretches these points are!! The more you read the government's case for seizure, the weaker it seems. Of course, the Bush administration's case for invading Iraq was weak - but it happened anyway. This was a very well written and balanced article that hits closer to the truth of the matter of the seizure. Private property has been inappropriately taken by the Federal government.
Posted by: ken | November 20, 2007 10:32 AM
It'd be easier to put the circled 'V' in red on all your dollars! Wouldn't it be cool to get money with the 'V' on there??
Posted by: mitch | November 20, 2007 8:24 AM
By the way...you can write ronpaul2008.com on our money. It's not legal tender. You can write whatever you want on it...no one can say a thing!
Posted by: getstemenhance | November 20, 2007 7:17 AM
PEOPLE OF AMERICA...WAKE UP!!! You live in your pretty, dilusional dream and have bought it hook...line and sinker!!! Please, for your sake and the rest of us in this country, shake yourself...turn off the damn tv you park in front of daily, and really see what is happening in this country. Ron Paul is our last and only hope to get this country back on track. Not just for us...but for our children, grandchildren and all to come. We have been hoodwinked by our government! Yes we have! Read the only REAL newspaper...The American Free Press. That paper tells the truth. It's hard to swallow when you first wake up, because everything looks upsidedown. Well...it is. Many countries...the population of those countries, are banking on Ron Paul for President. They have a better birds eye view looking on the outside in. We are in the middle of the biggest government corruption scandal of American history. Stop and use your own brain for a change. Think for yourself...don't be lead by the corrupt news media. WAKE UP...IT'S LATER THAN YOU THINK!!!
Posted by: getstemenhance | November 20, 2007 7:13 AM
Good one, Scrooge! LOL
Posted by: jinveninato | November 20, 2007 7:07 AM
It appears that Peter Schiff has been accused of fraud before. The scheme to hide Americans' money in overseas banks he is involved in now seems dubious, too. Looks like money laundering and tax avoidance.
Posted by: query0 | November 20, 2007 6:24 AM
Ah yes, that angle has not been discussed as much. You watch -- the government is going to have to give back that silver and gold and copper WITH an apology, but they will still have all our names and when we try to fly, we will be on some terrorist list.
Posted by: JaneAitken | November 20, 2007 4:25 AM
"Wags ask: How much of that record $4.2 million one-day haul that Paul collected earlier this month actually came in the form of dubloons imprinted with Paul's face, not U.S. legal tender?"
I say, Wags that ask this ought to prove Ron Paul or any of his supporters having done anything illegal, or risk being sued if they don't shut their traps about it.
Honestly, the bad reporting on this is ridiculous. To suggest Ron Paul was doing anything fraudulent or that his $4.3M take was not really legal money, is just too below the belt to be believed.
It is legal to own gold and silver last I heard, and if they think this is going to stop the big Dec 16 fundraiser they have another thing coming.
Posted by: JaneAitken | November 20, 2007 4:23 AM
"Wouldn't it be great if every Ron Paul supporter desecrated the U.S. currency by writing www.ronpaul2008.com on Federal Reserve notes?"
and,
United States Code
TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 17 - COINS AND CURRENCY
§ 333. Mutilation of national bank obligations
"Whoever mutilates, cuts, defaces, disfigures, or perforates, or
unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill,
draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking
association, or Federal Reserve bank, or the Federal Reserve System,
with intent to render such bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence
of debt unfit to be reissued, shall be fined under this title or
imprisoned not more than six months, or both."
Sounds to me writing in erasable pencil "Ron Paul for Pres 2008" would make the play money Fed Reserve notes il-Liberty dollars, and not illegal at all.
Written in a blank field or margin band of a note, any Fed Bank Chairman with an eraser could easily restore his hurt feelings that his currency has been designated il-Liberty.
Posted by: Scrooge | November 20, 2007 3:29 AM
I have long ago learned that most FBI prosecutions are political in nature. For nearly 20 years a politically connected family in Nevada has been ripping off people in land swindles in Arizona, Nevada and California to the tune of millions of dollars a year. They report only 60 thousand a year on their income taxes; have repeatedly filed false testimony and documents; provably violated Title 18 federal perjury statutes; and been responsible for threats, intimidation and death of witnesses.
BUT, the FBI cannot be bothered to even make a phone call or follow up on voluminous documentary evidence; talk to witnesses; or even take a complaint. An agent in the San Francisco FBI office told me I was "wasting my time because they were politically connected". Complaints to FBI HQ in Washington D.C. have gotten similar responses and persistence on my part even resulted in an FBI agent in the home office telling me I was wasting my time that "off the record" people with their connections were off limits and would NEVER be investigated.
Thus the great FBI turns out to be just another bunch of politically motivated and corrupt charlatans instead of the crime-fighting organization they like to portray in their PR releases.
Posted by: carl_street | November 20, 2007 1:54 AM
About stamping Fed dollars with Ron Paul:
Here is the specific law that does NOT constitute it as illegal:
United States Code
TITLE 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 17 - COINS AND CURRENCY
§ 333. Mutilation of national bank obligations
"Whoever mutilates, cuts, defaces, disfigures, or perforates, or
unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill,
draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking
association, or Federal Reserve bank, or the Federal Reserve System,
with intent to render such bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence
of debt unfit to be reissued, shall be fined under this title or
imprisoned not more than six months, or both."
One long sentence that basically says if you intend to render the dollar unusable then you have violated the law. I doubt anyone intended that by putting a Ron Paul stamp in the picture of the White House on the back. ;-P
Posted by: therealjjj77 | November 20, 2007 1:14 AM
Well, now, I think this is a fair article. Thanks. But I urge you to investigate other monetary schemes, such as New England Scrip. I urge you to investigate the U.S. Mint's position on "competing currencies" relative to the Constitution, and to follow up on the FBI's "no comment."
Personally, I see nothing wrong with the Liberty Dollar. And I see everything wrong with the "no comment" from the FBI. Let's get on the FBI and force them to provide some answers. Someone signed the order to make the raid, and perhaps explained the basis for it. And, the two-year long investigation is ridiculous: how long does it take to figure out if there is counterfeiting, or violations of laws? Please make the person accountable for the basis of the raid, and for the duration of the investigation.
Posted by: smharmon1 | November 20, 2007 1:06 AM
Comment by one reader said " you sound like a bunch of 18 year old anarchist conspiracy theorists"?
I got news for ya'! I'm 57 and just happen to not have my head in the sand. Read my opinions at www.dynamictrends.com
Editor
DynamicTrends
Posted by: editor | November 20, 2007 12:40 AM
Mr Alec, great fair and balanced article.
I am proud of your report and Washington Post for allowing it, while I was completely turned off by most of the previous biased and false reports in the Post about Ron Paul.
Thank you very much.
Posted by: iaoki | November 19, 2007 11:38 PM
This piece was informative and provided new information to the story. Thank you.
Posted by: access | November 19, 2007 11:10 PM
Great article Alec. Ron Paul for the Win! He has my vote and support. The FBI should be out doing their jobs and not raiding private property and TAKING away private property from American citizens or businesses that are not breaking any laws. The Liberty Dollar is real value, do you think that is why our government/FBI/Feds are so upset?
Posted by: tessieslace1 | November 19, 2007 10:38 PM
This is wonderful! Even if Ron does not win we have got the message out. Bildabergs beware! We will rout you the way Andrew Jackson did, with or without Ron. The internet is free and freedom is on its heals. Illuminati and Cfr's Mene mene tekel upharson. The revolution is on!
Posted by: Carpavel | November 19, 2007 10:35 PM
And Bernard von NotHaus will be in NH at the 2008 Liberty Forum in Nashua, NH Jan 3 -6th. Come hear him speak in the FreeState!
www.freestateproject.org/libertyforum
Posted by: dreepa | November 19, 2007 10:16 PM
Excellent article Alec, you da man!
Posted by: mitch | November 19, 2007 9:52 PM
I agree. a donation to Ron Paul is the best investment we can make right now. think about how socialized medicine and the continuation of the war will plummet our currency.
Posted by: akschodh | November 19, 2007 9:42 PM
I have been trying to find some dirt on Ron Paul but the more I research him the more I like him!
Posted by: harryb84 | November 19, 2007 9:41 PM
Journalism at last. Mr. MacGillis, I salute you. Bravo!
Posted by: SHILOKA | November 19, 2007 9:29 PM
I have heard Ron Paul called an isolationist, but I would like to point out dozens of counties around the world love Ron Paul's foreign policy
http://europe4ronpaul.blogspot.com/
Europe for Ron Paul lists dozens of fan sites around the world.
That said, this is a fascinating video by economists on inflation in the US. One of the economists in the video is Lew Rockwell. I never knew he was an economist
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-466210540567002553&hl=en
Posted by: mr_x_from_planet_x | November 19, 2007 9:03 PM
I honestly never expected to see such a fair article written about Ron Paul at the Post. Thank you. While so many other media outlets care to ridicule; It is quite refreshing to see you actually did some "research" before you published this well written piece. HEY!!! Media Guru's!! take note!!
Posted by: b.myers5 | November 19, 2007 8:57 PM
Federal Reserve Research Links
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7757684583209015812&q=federal+reserve&total=2385&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=8
Enjoy!
Posted by: stan_h_zx | November 19, 2007 8:42 PM
Marvelous article, Alec! You hit the nail right on the head. This incident ranks right up there with our illegal alien crisis and the Patriot Act. Our federal government, in its utter hypocricy, wants to selectively enforce its laws, adhere only to the parts of the Constitution it wants to, and persecute citizens it perceives as a threat to it's supreme power.
Posted by: thirty3na3rd | November 19, 2007 8:39 PM
Excellent Post! I suggest everyone research the beginings of the Federal Reserve and know the truth! How about a Cartel a Monopoly of fake worthless money all the while Inflation tax eats us alive! The bankers have a check book but no account they just print money in thin air then make interest on money they do not have!They are the real counterfieters!
Real money! Bankers and Government hate competition!Read Ron Pauls desks message! Goverment hates competition this one is so on the money real money in fact that is exactly what this county needs competition with real value money! The Government would not be able to spend what it does not have if it was real money!
Posted by: stan_h_zx | November 19, 2007 8:31 PM
Our computers pay bills by issuing a string of 0's and 1's to another computer.
Do you suppose the government is going to shut down the internet because we are not using its play money, Federal reserve notes?
If the FBI likes my strings of 0's and 1's as currency, what is the problem with Liberty dollars?
This smells like the rounding up of political dissidents in order to put fear into Ron Paul supporters.
We can delete the word "free" from the national anthem and "liberty" from the pledge of allegiance.
This presidential campaign is going to be the most exciting in my lifetime because of Ron Paul's message to TRULY restore Liberty to the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave.
Brave enough to stare down the interests that stand behind the Federal Reverve Banks which don't represent the interests of all individuals born with equal rights to pursue Life, Liberty, and Happiness.
The Paul Revolution is spreading to Europe see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07TVBLFroSM "The Strasbourg Tea Party - Europe for Ron Paul"
It is central bankers that should be concerned, not free individuals the world over.
Posted by: Scrooge | November 19, 2007 8:24 PM
"Wags ask: How much of that record $4.2 million one-day haul that Paul collected earlier this month actually came in the form of dubloons imprinted with Paul's face, not U.S. legal tender?"
The answer to that would be zero. The Ron Paul liberty dollars came in just before the raid. That means no customers received the Ron Paul dollars. That also means the government stole the Ron Paul dollars before they could be shipped. I purchased some, so, the government stole from me... go figure! What a bunch of criminals!
mketcher posted:
"Wouldn't it be great if every Ron Paul supporter desecrated the U.S. currency by writing www.ronpaul2008.com on Federal Reserve notes?"
I'm already doing that bro! They're just pieces of paper, no value whatsoever.
Posted by: jonathan.bennett | November 19, 2007 8:24 PM
Fantastic article Alec. Definitely fair and balanced, unlike the AP's take on this.
Posted by: jimforsythe | November 19, 2007 8:24 PM
You guys sound like a bunch of 18-year-old conspiracy theorists. Next you'll be saying that the government will arrest people for peaceably printing and using their own sound currency! Idiots.
Posted by: samuel.barron | November 19, 2007 8:16 PM
Since the Feds have declared war on the Ron Paul dollar, maybe Ron Paul supporters should declare war on the U.S. dollar. Wouldn't it be great if every Ron Paul supporter desecrated the U.S. currency by writing www.ronpaul2008.com on Federal Reserve notes? What a wonderfully subversive way to get Ron Paul's message into the hands of the masses and express our contempt at the government's fiat money.
Posted by: mketcher | November 19, 2007 8:14 PM
Join the Revolution: TeaParty07.com
Once we eliminate the Federal Reserve and Congress reasserts its Constitutional authority to create only sound money, then we will have no need for alternative currencies or foreign investment hedges against inflation.
Posted by: rblauvelt | November 19, 2007 7:28 PM
Seriously, do you people hear yourselves? You sound like a bunch of 18 year old anarchist conspiracy theorists. I should know...guess what I was when I was 18. Your're tilting at windmills.
Posted by: obrine | November 19, 2007 7:26 PM
It seems to me that the FED is upset that they are making silver coins. Since we no longer use silver coins, but debted legal tender (not silver certificates), they don't have a case. There is no silver in our current legal debt tender, and no gold to back it as of 1971... SOOOoooo... I'm not getting it. If we decided to start trading with monopoly money, would we be arrested? The answer is, no. We would not. Why? Because it's just paper backed by nothing. Oh... wait a second... hmm....
Posted by: xdream | November 19, 2007 7:12 PM
This was not so much a raid as an armed-robbery. The Fed NEEDS to get some commodities behind it, for when the dollar hits its nadir, soon, and there's nothing left in Fort Knox, so why not take some hard valuable commodities from others? It's not as though they aren't already hardened thieves - their inflation tax is a form of theft we citizens are all paying, every day.
Posted by: get_bent_wapo | November 19, 2007 6:44 PM
Gee, and to think the FBI could be wasting time tracking down Osama binLaden instead.
What ever would Americans do if the FBI were downsized of even eliminated by a Ron Paul presidency, other than save lots of money?
Posted by: fuzzywzhe | November 19, 2007 6:34 PM
Sure, they can audit me. In fact, they did so earlier in the year. They got me for an extra $225 for 2005, but I got them back for $560 to me for 2004 on their same numbers. They won the battle. I won the war.
Besides that, I'm STILL waiting to find out what a "source" is that my income is "derived" from and then taxed...because there isn't squat on that in 26 USC...
Posted by: michael | November 19, 2007 6:25 PM
Great post, Alec! You clearly talked to everyone involved, and seem to have presented the facts fairly. Unlike many of the news reports on this issue, you a) did not imply that the Paul campaign was involved in distributing the coins b) did not assume that NORFED had done anything illegal c) did not make snide remarks that the manufacturing NORFED coins was how Paul has raised his money on November 5th d) did not call Paul's supporters cranks, kooks, or other perjoratives. Thanks!
Posted by: crasch | November 19, 2007 6:09 PM
It would seem that there is more to lose to these people then just a political contest. If the Fed is investigating something that many Ron Paul supporters are excited about, I would be worried if I were them. The Fed and IRS is far more powerful of an organization than any of them can comprehend. Yes, they are even more powerful than the president of the United States could ever dream of being. If Ron Paul thinks he can do something about the Feds with an appeal to the United States Constitution, these people are bigger than the Constitution. When it comes to getting what they want, the Constitution is irrelevant. They control the money, congress, and the economy. We are all insignificant when it comes to their power. The tools they have could destroy us with our own military weapons. Anyone care to take them on! The only way to freedom is war on this land and the loss of far more lives then that which has been lost in all wars involving the United States combined. Any takers?
Posted by: ceo1 | November 19, 2007 5:56 PM
Sounds like a major risk to those who support Ron Paul. Now all the Fed and IRS has to do is collect the list of all of the Ron Paul supporters and start doing an audit on each of them. Nothing like an IRS audit to dampen spirits, especially if any of them go to jail, get their homes foreclosed upon, and lose their families in the name of Ron Paul. Yes, the Fed and IRS really are that powerful!
Posted by: ceo1 | November 19, 2007 5:47 PM
very nicely written Mr. Macgillis. I was expecting some kind of propaganda piece but you proved me wrong. keep up the good work.
Posted by: jbrie645 | November 19, 2007 5:46 PM
Great article!
It seems the government-sanctioned counterfeiters don't want any competition.
Posted by: spryrogue | November 19, 2007 5:43 PM
Please research for yourself the history of modern central banking.
Google video "The Money Masters" and "Money as Debt" both are available for free.
I am a life long democrat, when I started to understand money and monetary policy there was only one choice for president, Ron Paul.
Posted by: satorisport | November 19, 2007 5:38 PM
Great article! Fair and Balanced, hey you guys should use that as a motto or something. The other guys didn't really mean it.
Posted by: marvel | November 19, 2007 5:26 PM
In the past, I've been most critical of the Washington Post... but there is no room for criticism here. While others are trying to use this story to spin Ron Paul into some conspiracy to undermine "real" currency, this article was unbiased and factual. Thanks, Alec, for a good piece of journalism.
Posted by: ddruck | November 19, 2007 5:16 PM
Excellent piece, Alec. What are you doing writing for the Post?!
Posted by: martiallawiscomingtotheusa | November 19, 2007 5:04 PM
it's not like the USA is in a Global War on Terror or anything that might actually require the FBI's resources...
Posted by: millionea7 | November 19, 2007 5:02 PM
The need for Ron Paul is unquestionable in light of these recent events. The govt is out of control. Apparently someone forgot this is a nation by the people and for the people.
Ron Paul is winning and is certainly a "top tier" candidate. I have gathered the evidence and created a website.
Please visit www.thecaseforronpaul.com and judge for yourself.
Posted by: editor | November 19, 2007 4:43 PM
Hurrah for Mr. Von NotHaus and Dr. Paul! Hurrah for Mr. Schiff! I can't say I truly fault the treasury though. Our dollar's collapse is evident, and the subprime meltdown is pushing things to the limit much faster than anyone expected. an expectation of an eventual change to sound money policy is the one thing that can prop up our sagging dollar. Visit RonPaul2008.com today and read more about it. Register to VOTE! YOUR vote may be the one that brings Hope to America!
Posted by: lnardozi | November 19, 2007 4:32 PM
The comments to this entry are closed.
The 16th Amendment does not authorize the Federal Reserve, which was created by the Federal Reserve Act, an act of Congress and therefore not a part of fundamental law.
The laying on of an income tax was essential to perpetrating the fraud of the FED, but the FED can be deposed by a majority of two houses of Congress and a presidential signature. Undoing the 16th would rid us of the income tax -- only.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution