The Trail: A Daily Diary of Campaign 2008

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Gator - Obama does not have enough delegates to win the nomination - and as far as your statement about Hillary and negative comments - I can name several negative comments made by Obama and supporters - most recent, the black heckler that said Bill Clinton hit him!

mrhamham - Obama has had a chance to expand on his ideas during debates but he clearly was unable - the views on his web site are merely the same views as the democratic party (nothing original) - it's legitimate to question him for details - we'll see tonight if he is up to the challenge!

grassy123 - Sorry to hear you voted for Obama instead of Hillary - you along with so many others(and Wisconsinites) are a product of todays unsubstantial, feelgood, Internet and media hyped impressionable cult - instead of using brains to analyze a situation and make an intelligent decision based on fact, experience, and accomplishments - you go with what gives you the most emotional response - sad - same thing happened when Bush was elected the second time - Hillary clearly the better choice for president!

wpost - wow, you certainly have the inside dope on who started what! Funny, it's all about Hillary's "negativity" - I've found a few negatives myself but they're about Obama - one, his racist church, two Michelle Obama saying this is the FIRST time she has ever been proud to be an American, three allowing his supporters to believe he actuall VOTED against the Iraq war, plagarizing his speeches,....

Thanks mrectenwald - a voice of reason in a fairytale age! Hillary for President 2008!

Senator Obama is winning more votes in traditionally 'Red' states than all 3-Republican candidates combined (i.e, VA, AL, KS, CO). In some cases Obama has won more votes than both Sen-Clinton and Sen-McCain combined. With this in mind, Senator McCain couldn't possibly win the general election, this holds true even if he gains a good portion of Clinton's voters.

So you Clinton-Democrats that would vote for McCain in the general election will loose twice. Do the math!

America has grown leaps and bounds over the past 10-years, and I cannot remember (within my entire adult life) being more proud of my country than I am now! Only the greatest of nations are capable of producing superstars like Barack Obama, Tiger Woods and Oprah Winfrey.

I have learned through long and bitter experience, that when all of the TV networks present a united front, it is time to buy a large jar of Vaseline.
Why Obama's free ride? Is this the media's way of telling us that we must suffer through four more years of Republican policies? Are they too stupid to realize that he will be able to do nothing substantial? Or are they shrewd enough to realize just that?
Why was Governor Richardson, easily the most qualified and experienced candidate, marginalized? Why was Ron Paul, the REAL candidate of change, brushed aside?
I smell a rat, and I am not unique in that respect.

Oh wait, THIS is Obama's best speech. Sorry, I was confused!:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=qj_sApZ4Q9Y

Best Speech Obama ever gave:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbYFKUsaKpY

I wrote: "Furthermore, in terms of the campaign, Hillary Clinton has won the votes of far more registered DEMOCRATS than has Obama. We believe that a lot of Republican spoilers are voting in our (stupidly open) primaries in order to defeat a truly feared change agent, Hillary Clinton."

Reply: A vote is a vote. We are all Americans.

My response: This is a DEMOCRATIC PARTY primary, not a general election. The primary process is to find the representative of the DEMOCRATIC PARTY for the general election. Hillary has won far more DEMOCRATIC votes. In several open-primary states, rightwingers have been interviewed who admitted to crossing over just to vote AGAINST Hillary, not to vote FOR Obama. In fact, asked if they would vote for Obama in the general election, they laughed and walked away. Obama has encouraged this rightwing cross-over.

Further, many of his supporters, esp. on sites such as Daily Kos and Politico.com, are exactly like the posters on such reichwing sites as Freerepublic.com. That is, they are far-right, young to middle aged men, whose politics, attitudes and just about everything else, resembles nothing more than they do rightwing attitudes, ideas and values. This is especially apparent when they recycle Republican-made anti-women, anti-Hillary, and even anti-Democratic rhetoric.

I cannot support a candidate who encourages this sort of cross-over. The Democratic party has a big tent, but it should NOT welcome sexist pigs and anti-Democratic values. The only thing these people share with Democrats is that they are voting, reputedly, for a reputed Democrat. Other than that, they have no vested interests in our beliefs.

Hillary is a wonderful role model for young women: strong, accomplished, inquisitive, and opinionated - the way all mother's want their daughters.

Whether she wins or not, just having her there is a great opportunity for young women and girls to see that it is acceptable for women to do politics.

It's quite foolish of America, and America's women not be take her candidacy more seriously, and make her President.

It's unconscionable to imagine that America prefers a nation of wimpy women, or wimply men. It defies everything America stands for.

AN AMERICAN FAIRY TALE*
[A CANADIAN DIAGNOSIS]

by: Mary Sakel

Oba-myopia has afflicted, hopefully not terminally, the American voting body and election fever is running high!

HIS ACUTE HOPENESS preaches Lofty Ideals and practices Hand-On-Healing whilst spending $800,000+ (vs Clinton's anemic $190,000) to romance superdelegates, who really don't need the money, into believing His Anorexic resume suffices!
We learneth His Chicago Ca$tle was fully bequeathed Him by Bad Lord Rezko of the Cottage View Poor Seniors 97-bed Donation Kingdom...and Obamarama's Chicago Lawfirm Lords receiveth $850,000 commission fees thanks to His forceful Senatorial voice's heavy-duty $14-million flirting of the Hopeful Taxpayer-serfs of Ill.

And He "PRECIOUS OBAMA" [as Sir Lou Dobbs of CNN calleth Him] of the Axelrod Temple Knights throws many a craftily-delivered punch at the damsel-in-distress lest she dare throw off her Juliet mask to reveal her Joan Arc proclivities to fight for what She believeth is Right for Her Kingdom. Hmm 'Not an admirable quality Strength in a Damsel' thinketh His Acute Hopeness! He is truly masterful camouflaging his jabs at the Lady of Substance and so the Media Spin Doctor- Ennablers pay no attention to his VENOMOUS VIBES and jugular jabs--and give the Media-Darling full free ride on both their print and broadcast ponies. Thusly the prince of Change wraps his frequently formidable Misogynist smears in Fanciful Oratory (which we learn he stole from Zeus knows whom!). Then, presto!, His Lady Hillary, via media Oba-myopia, transformeth into a mere 'shrill' of a She-politician, far less "likeable enough" --which serveth Cruel Precious' strategy for stealing the American Throne from its long-suffering rightful Chicagoshire Heiress!

His Hopeness surely claims the HIGHER GROUND OF METAPHYSICAL VIRTUE but, alas, has not bothered to daintily lift His Virtuous Skirts to avoid stepping on the Mud Beneath Him. And so, His Healing Arrogance, the Knight of CockyShire, feels he can ride his DON QUIXOTIC SHOWHORSE--"Empty Rhetoric" of Cheap Shots Stables--off to the Windmills of His Mind and throw into the mudrails the WORKHORSE that called his bluff. Pity!

For the Workhorse was the Only Antidote the sickly sluggish and feverish Voting serfs ever had to fight the gathering McCain Dragons' poison...and thus the Fiery RepuBeasts are fast aproaching one more time at the Kingdom's borders (not the Canadian side, PLEASE!) whilst Precious persists strumming Hymns of Ether and Songs of Vapour to sustain the Cult of Now as it gathers Mortal Momentum against the Quixotic Windmills of Change...

Mary Sakel
Toronto - CANADA

*copyright
*Libel Warning to ObamaCampaign-David Axelrod

AN AMERICAN FAIRY TALE*
[A CANADIAN DIAGNOSIS]

by: Mary Sakel

Oba-myopia has afflicted, hopefully not terminally, the American voting body and election fever is running high!

HIS ACUTE HOPENESS preaches Lofty Ideals and practices Hand-On-Healing whilst spending $800,000+ (vs Clinton's anemic $190,000) to romance superdelegates, who really don't need the money, into believing His Anorexic resume suffices!
We learneth His Chicago Ca$tle was fully bequeathed Him by Bad Lord Rezko of the Cottage View Poor Seniors 97-bed Donation Kingdom...and Obamarama's Chicago Lawfirm Lords receiveth $850,000 commission fees thanks to His forceful Senatorial voice's heavy-duty $14-million flirting of the Hopeful Taxpayer-serfs of Ill.

And He "PRECIOUS OBAMA" [as Sir Lou Dobbs of CNN calleth Him] of the Axelrod Temple Knights throws many a craftily-delivered punch at the damsel-in-distress lest she dare throw off her Juliet mask to reveal her Joan Arc proclivities to fight for what She believeth is Right for Her Kingdom. Hmm 'Not an admirable quality Strength in a Damsel' thinketh His Acute Hopeness! He is truly masterful camouflaging his jabs at the Lady of Substance and so the Media Spin Doctor- Ennablers pay no attention to his VENOMOUS VIBES and jugular jabs--and give the Media-Darling full free ride on both their print and broadcast ponies. Thusly the prince of Change wraps his frequently formidable Misogynist smears in Fanciful Oratory (which we learn he stole from Zeus knows whom!). Then, presto!, His Lady Hillary, via media Oba-myopia, transformeth into a mere 'shrill' of a She-politician, far less "likeable enough" --which serveth Cruel Precious' strategy for stealing the American Throne from its long-suffering rightful Chicagoshire Heiress!

His Hopeness surely claims the HIGHER GROUND OF METAPHYSICAL VIRTUE but, alas, has not bothered to daintily lift His Virtuous Skirts to avoid stepping on the Mud Beneath Him. And so, His Healing Arrogance, the Knight of CockyShire, feels he can ride his DON QUIXOTIC SHOWHORSE--"Empty Rhetoric" of Cheap Shots Stables--off to the Windmills of His Mind and throw into the mudrails the WORKHORSE that called his bluff. Pity!

For the Workhorse was the Only Antidote the sickly sluggish and feverish Voting serfs ever had to fight the gathering McCain Dragons' poison...and thus the Fiery RepuBeasts are fast aproaching one more time at the Kingdom's borders (not the Canadian side, PLEASE!) whilst Precious persists strumming Hymns of Ether and Songs of Vapour to sustain the Cult of Now as it gathers Mortal Momentum against the Quixotic Windmills of Change...

Mary Sakel
Toronto - CANADA

*copyright
*Libel Warning to ObamaCampaign-David Axelrod

AN AMERICAN FAIRY TALE*
(A CANADIAN DIAGNOSIS)

by: Mary Sakel

Oba-myopia has afflicted, hopefully not terminally, the American voting body and election fever is running high!

HIS ACUTE HOPENESS preaches Lofty Ideals and practices Hand-On-Healing whilst spending $800,000+ (vs Clinton's anemic $190,000) to romance superdelegates, who really don't need the money, into believing His Anorexic resume suffices!
We learneth His Castle was fully bequeathed Him by Bad Lord Rezko of the Cottage View Poor Seniors 97-bed Donation Kingdom...and Obamarama's Chicago Lawfirm Lords receiveth $850,000 commission fees thanketh to His forceful Senatorial voice's heavy-duty dedicated $14-million flirting of the Hopeful Taxpayers!

And He "PRECIOUS OBAMA" [as Sir Lou Dobbs of CNN calleth Him] of the Axelrod Temple Knights throws many a craftily-delivered punch at the damsel-in-distress lest she dare throw off her Juliet mask to reveal her Joan Arc proclivities to fight for what She beleveth is Right for Her Kingdom. Hmm 'Not an admirable quality Strength in a Damsel' thinketh His Acute Hopeness! He is truly masterful camouflaging his jabs at the Lady of Substance and so the Media Spin Doctor- Ennablers pay no attention to his VENOMOUS VIBES and jugular jabs--and give the Media-Darling full free ride on both their print and broadcast ponies. Thusly the prince of Change wraps his frequently formidable Misogynist smears in Fanciful Oratory (which we learn he stole from Zeus knows whom!). Then, presto!, His Lady Hillary, via media Oba-myopia, transformeth into a mere 'shrill' of a She-politician, far less "likeable enough" --which serveth Cruel Precious' strategy for stealing the American Throne from its long-suffering rightful Chicagoshire Heiress!

His Hopeness surely claims the HIGHER GROUND OF METAPHYSICAL VIRTUE but, alas, has not bothered to daintily lift His Virtuous Skirts to avoid stepping on the Mud Beneath Him. And so, His Healing Arrogance, the Knight of CockyShire, feels he can ride his DON QUIXOTIC SHOWHORSE--"Empty Rhetoric" of Cheap Shots Stables--off to the Windmills of His Mind and throw into the mudrails the WORKHORSE that called his bluff. Pity!

For the Workhorse was the Only Antidote the sickly sluggish and feverish Voting serfs ever had to fight the gathering McCain Dragons' poison...and thus the Fiery RepuBeasts are fast aproaching one more time at the Kingdom's borders (not the Canadian side, PLEASE!) whilst 'Precious' persists strumming Hymns of Ether and Songs of Vapour to sustain the Cult of Now as it gathers Mortal Momentum against the Quixotic Windmills of Change...

Mary Sakel
Toronto - CANADA

*copyright
*Warning to ObamaCampaign-David Axelrod

AN AMERICAN FAIRY TALE*
(A CANADIAN DIAGNOSIS)

by: Mary Sakel

Oba-myopia has afflicted, hopefully not terminally, the American voting body and election fever is running high!

HIS ACUTE HOPENESS preaches Lofty Ideals and practices Hand-On-Healing whilst spending $800,000+ (vs Clinton's anemic $190,000) to romance superdelegates, who really don't need the money, into believing His Anorexic resume suffices!
We learneth His Castle was fully bequeathed Him by Bad Lord Rezko of the Cottage View Poor Seniors 97-bed Donation Kingdom...and Obamarama's Chicago Lawfirm Lords receiveth $850,000 commission fees thanketh to His forceful Senatorial voice's heavy-duty dedicated $14-million flirting of the Hopeful Taxpayers!

And He "PRECIOUS OBAMA" [as Sir Lou Dobbs of CNN calleth Him] of the Axelrod Temple Knights throws many a craftily-delivered punch at the damsel-in-distress lest she dare throw off her Juliet mask to reveal her Joan Arc proclivities to fight for what She beleveth is Right for Her Kingdom. Hmm 'Not an admirable quality Strength in a Damsel' thinketh His Acute Hopeness! He is truly masterful camouflaging his jabs at the Lady of Substance and so the Media Spin Doctor- Ennablers pay no attention to his VENOMOUS VIBES and jugular jabs--and give the Media-Darling full free ride on both their print and broadcast ponies. Thusly the prince of Change wraps his frequently formidable Misogynist smears in Fanciful Oratory (which we learn he stole from Zeus knows whom!). Then, presto!, His Lady Hillary, via media Oba-myopia, transformeth into a mere 'shrill' of a She-politician, far less "likeable enough" --which serveth Cruel Precious' strategy for stealing the American Throne from its long-suffering rightful Chicagoshire Heiress!

His Hopeness surely claims the HIGHER GROUND OF METAPHYSICAL VIRTUE but, alas, has not bothered to daintily lift His Virtuous Skirts to avoid stepping on the Mud Beneath Him. And so, His Healing Arrogance, the Knight of CockyShire, feels he can ride his DON QUIXOTIC SHOWHORSE--"Empty Rhetoric" of Cheap Shots Stables--off to the Windmills of His Mind and throw into the mudrails the WORKHORSE that called his bluff. Pity!

For the Workhorse was the Only Antidote the sickly sluggish and feverish Voting serfs ever had to fight the gathering McCain Dragons' poison...and thus the Fiery RepuBeasts are fast aproaching one more time at the Kingdom's borders (not the Canadian side, PLEASE!) whilst 'Precious' persists strumming Hymns of Ether and Songs of Vapour to sustain the Cult of Now as it gathers Mortal Momentum against the Quixotic Windmills of Change...

Mary Sakel
Toronto - CANADA

*copyright
*Warning to ObamaCampaign-David Axelrod

AN AMERICAN FAIRY TALE*
(A CANADIAN DIAGNOSIS)

by: Mary Sakel

Oba-myopia has afflicted, hopefully not terminally, the American voting body and election fever is running high!

HIS ACUTE HOPENESS preaches Lofty Ideals and practices Hand-On-Healing whilst spending $800,000+ (vs Clinton's anemic $190,000) to romance superdelegates, who really don't need the money, into believing His Anorexic resume suffices!
We learneth His Castle was fully bequeathed Him by Bad Lord Rezko of the Cottage View Poor Seniors 97-bed Donation Kingdom...and Obamarama's Chicago Lawfirm Lords receiveth $850,000 commission fees thanketh to His forceful Senatorial voice's heavy-duty dedicated $14-million flirting of the Hopeful Taxpayers!

And He "PRECIOUS OBAMA" [as Sir Lou Dobbs of CNN calleth Him] of the Axelrod Temple Knights throws many a craftily-delivered punch at the damsel-in-distress lest she dare throw off her Juliet mask to reveal her Joan Arc proclivities to fight for what She beleveth is Right for Her Kingdom. Hmm 'Not an admirable quality Strength in a Damsel' thinketh His Acute Hopeness! He is truly masterful camouflaging his jabs at the Lady of Substance and so the Media Spin Doctor- Ennablers pay no attention to his VENOMOUS VIBES and jugular jabs--and give the Media-Darling full free ride on both their print and broadcast ponies. Thusly the prince of Change wraps his frequently formidable Misogynist smears in Fanciful Oratory (which we learn he stole from Zeus knows whom!). Then, presto!, His Lady Hillary, via media Oba-myopia, transformeth into a mere 'shrill' of a She-politician, far less "likeable enough" --which serveth Cruel Precious' strategy for stealing the American Throne from its long-suffering rightful Chicagoshire Heiress!

His Hopeness surely claims the HIGHER GROUND OF METAPHYSICAL VIRTUE but, alas, has not bothered to daintily lift His Virtuous Skirts to avoid stepping on the Mud Beneath Him. And so, His Healing Arrogance, the Knight of CockyShire, feels he can ride his DON QUIXOTIC SHOWHORSE--"Empty Rhetoric" of Cheap Shots Stables--off to the Windmills of His Mind and throw into the mudrails the WORKHORSE that called his bluff. Pity!

For the Workhorse was the Only Antidote the sickly sluggish and feverish Voting serfs ever had to fight the gathering McCain Dragons' poison...and thus the Fiery RepuBeasts are fast aproaching one more time at the Kingdom's borders (not the Canadian side, PLEASE!) whilst 'Precious' persists strumming Hymns of Ether and Songs of Vapour to sustain the Cult of Now as it gathers Mortal Momentum against the Quixotic Windmills of Change...

Mary Sakel
Toronto - CANADA

*copyright
*Warning to ObamaCampaign-David Axelrod

That attack-itis must be contagious.
It seems to be spreading from HRC to her supporters. Oh yeah, and then there is that nasty plague of desperation-itis too. Barack has shown an amazing degree of restraint when dealing with her abysmal record and her unfounded attacks.
I am a woman physician, and I support Barack Obama for my president.

Clinton has been criticized for not giving credit to a ghostwriter in connection with It Takes a Village. The majority of the book was reportedly written by ghostwriter Barbara Feinman.[8] When the book was first announced in April 1995, The New York Times reported publisher Simon & Schuster as saying "The book will actually be written by Barbara Feinman, a journalism professor at Georgetown University in Washington. Ms. Feinman will conduct a series of interviews with Mrs. Clinton, who will help edit the resulting text."[9]

Feinman spent seven months on the project and was paid $120,000 for her work.[10]
Clinton stated that Feinman assisted in interviews and did some editorial drafting of "connecting paragraphs", while Clinton herself wrote the final manuscript in longhand.[2]

This led Feinman to complain at the time to Capitol Style magazine over the lack of acknowledgement.[12] In 2001, The Wall Street Journal reported that "New York literary circles are buzzing with vitriol over Sen. Clinton's refusal, so far, to share credit with any writer who helps on her book."

Everything about Hillary Clinton is FAKE, FRAUDULENT & CORRUPT. Hillary has been running one of the most negative campaigns in the history of the Democratic Party, scaring up the ghosts of Jessie Helms for votes. Hillary has not given the American voters one compelling reason to vote for her. American will need a colonic after this primary season to cleanse itself of the flagrant stench of CLINTON STYLE POLITICS: the politics of division, destruction and victimization. While Hillary has run an ugly campaign, waving the faux feminist flag of misogyny and otherwise seeking to divide up the electorate: black vs. white, latino vs. black, young vs. old, women vs. men, OBAMA has been expanding the base of the Democratic party and building a coalition of progressives, liberals, independents, thoughtful conservatives and disaffected Republicans that will be needed to win in November. Furthermore, OBAMA has showed that he can win votes in any part of America, something that a highly negative and depressing campaign will never do. The happiest day of my life will be when Hillary pulls the plug on HILLARY CLINTON'S BLIND AMBITION TOUR 2008.

To message 2: What Hillary means about "your own words" is if you (Obama) are basing your whole campaign in just words, you have no experience, you are a speaker, at least, it should be your own words! She can use Mario Cuomo's quote because her campaign is not based on words. She is, definitely, a woman of "Facts".

"It is stunning the way Obama and his supporters are able to say vicious and vile things about Hillary and then claim she's negative. It is the most amazing tactic I've ever seen."

Kinda like how Hillary grinned while BET Johnson sleazily made insinuations about Barack? You mean that kind of vileness?
Or having surrogate Bob Kerey send out an email which lied about Barack's being taught in a Muslim school. That kind of viciousness?
Or Clinton surrogate Cuomo talking about Barack's "shucking and jiving?" That kind of vileness?

Yep, can't see why they would call her negative...Oh wait! I see! She isn't negative...she's just cowardly...hiding behind the vileness and viciousness of her supporters and surrogates.

NOW i get it!

This article seemed more like a Clinton Press release than news.

Since Clinton is a fact person:

Fact is that Clinton's negatives have been consistently above 40% since last Oct. Persons with high negatives get people to vote against her.

Obama has rather low negatives making him the stronger candidate if all things are equal.

Clinton says she will fight this thing to the convention. There is no way she can win this thing without decimating the party for this election cycle.

If you think both candidates are nearly good, you might consider voting for Obama who can win without a big fight because he already has enough delegates to win without being contentious.

I am not saying Clinton is more contentious, only that because of poor organization has got herself into the position where she will need to use unpleasant means to get the nomination. He is in a better position and won't need to.

ann,

Defending oneself from attack is not the same as initiating it.

It is stunning the way Obama and his supporters are able to say vicious and vile things about Hillary and then claim she's negative. It is the most amazing tactic I've ever seen. I only hope democrats don't buy it anymore. Remember, Bill and Hillary Clinton did really good things for the poor, the middle-class, for democrats. The reason Hillary is hated by the GOP is because she insists that universal health insurance and care are moral necessities. Democrats don't and shouldn't hate her for that...that's why we should give her our vote. She speaks up for democratic principles and is undaunted by the GOP strategy of trying to make her out as some evil person.

Plus, at a time when we are engaged in two wars we need a Commander in Chief who has armed services and foreign relations experience -- not a freshman senator with neither.

Vote Hillary WI -- we are counting on you. I don't want the GOP and independents picking the democratic nominee -- I want the dems to do it.

"I have to go. That doesn't mean that I am abdicating my position."

We understand. Royalty never like to abdicate. They have to be tossed off their thrones...by red-blooded American revolutionaries.

Please give our regards to Queen Hillary and the rest of the royal court.

Nice chatting mrectenwald! Hillary for President!

Obama doesn't have what it takes? Really?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/03/AR2008010303303.html

Unlike Obama and his supporters, I cannot afford to talk about what I'm going to do all day. I have to actually do things. Bye!

As for Obama's landmark legislation idea, that one really gave me a chuckle. That's a joke, sort of like his nuclear "regulation" legislation--toothless.

Yes, I can understand your argument. Who would want to represent the FUTURE of the Democratic party, when they could represent the PAST.

I have to go. That doesn't mean that I am abdicating my position (unlike Obama, who does).

"Obama and "landmark legislation" have no place in the same sentence, that is, without a "not."

If Obama had anything to do with it, he was rolled into the bill by senior members trying to hand him a record. That much is clear."

The only thing that is clear is your inability to research the candidates' records in the Senate. Your proven inability to be truthful exposes you for the unreliable source that you are.

I'm glad we cleared that up.

"Furthermore, in terms of the campaign, Hillary Clinton has won the votes of far more registered DEMOCRATS than has Obama. We believe that a lot of Republican spoilers are voting in our (stupidly open) primaries in order to defeat a truly feared change agent, Hillary Clinton."

A vote is a vote. We are all Americans. In Virginia, Barack got more total votes than Hillary and McCain combined.

REAL post polling in Wisconsin is revealing that Republicans are crossing over to vote for both Hillary and Obama.

The only candidate using negative personal ads is Hillary. She is proven to be the one who would do anything to win.

Time to leave Hillaryland!

Obama and "landmark legislation" have no place in the same sentence, that is, without a "not."

If Obama had anything to do with it, he was rolled into the bill by senior members trying to hand him a record. That much is clear.

"But the devil is in the details"

You can say that again...and the Clintons certainly know their details.
However, micromanagement is not a highly prized leadership quality....ask Carter.

But hey, Hillary is your candidate! Whatever you say!

Furthermore, in terms of the campaign, Hillary Clinton has won the votes of far more registered DEMOCRATS than has Obama. We believe that a lot of Republican spoilers are voting in our (stupidly open) primaries in order to defeat a truly feared change agent, Hillary Clinton. Obama has also thrown THEM some rhetorical bones in the form of Reagan praise (however convoluted) and other coded language--like saying that the auto WORKERS have to change, rather than the auto MANUFACTURERS (who need to change their damn products before the earth is unfit for human habitation). Look, we are agreed, I HOPE, about the ends we seek. But, we are very much at odds about the means to get them. I see NOTHING about Obama that leads me to believe that he can or even wants to achieve what we need. He seems willing to do anything to get elected (ironically he charge Clinton with the same), including encouraging known far rightwing voters to vote for him to get rid of Hillary. THAT is what is shameful and that is what will destroy our party, our ideals and likewise, our REAL chance for change.

"Me thinks thou dost protest too much!"

LOL. Me thinks not.

Come out, come out, wherever you are!

Time to leave Hillaryland!

Barack passed a landmark bill in his first two years in the US Senate...What landmark bill has Hillary authored and passed? While she wasn't sending our soldiers to neeedless death in Iraq?

mreectenwald,

Recognizing enemies and inciting them are very different. It's possible to do one without the other, although the Clintons are certainly adept at both.

Well whanger - you seem to think Obama has won the nomination already so I guess you needed reminding of that insight!

"To you that think being a great speaker is enough - Hitler, Jim Jones, and Sadam Hussein were charismatic and great speakers and look what they did! Being a great speaker is nothing without the record to back your words and Obama just doesn't have the credentials."

Doesn't anyone take logic anymore??

Hitler first claimed that he was a man of "solutions." Does that mean Hillary, the "solution" candidate is Hitler?

Churchill was a great speaker, so was FDR, so was Lincoln...so what?

Barack has an oratorical gift. He also has a solid record of creating change in both the Illinois and US Senate.

Click your heals twice and you too can escape Hillaryland and all their fairytales.

Yes, you can!

wpost4112 writes:

"Obama is not running his campaign on rhetoric. He uses rhetoric, brilliantly, to explain his campaign and reawaken the hope in all of us ...which is essential if we are each to work rebuilding this nation of ours in non-partisan cooperation. His accomplishments in both the US Senate and the Illinois Senate are shimmering examples, not shams."

The problem with his reawakening of hope with "brilliant rhetoric" is that he has done this in his career, and later has acted as a conciliator rather than a change agent. In the end, he has people feeling good about getting screwed. I would rather not feel good at all. How about you? I don't want baseless feelings of "hope." I want reality-based solutions that acknowledge the difficulties, that recognize the enemies (and they are not goin to just go away under a charm spell), and that have a demonstrated leader behind them, someone with a RECORD of accmplishing such things. Obama falls FAR short on this scale.

"The claims are neither serious nor brilliant. They are specious and dirty. Desperate acts from a losing campaign which is out of ideas, out of money and out of decency. Your baseless accusation of sham redounds to your own shame."

Me thinks thou dost protest too much!

They are serious enough to merit the discussion of many people on this board and elsewhere. They are serious because there is no record to substantiate the rhetorical claims, and now, the rhetoric itself has been found to be demonstrably RECYCLED. Perhaps the slogan for his campaign should now read:

Obama '08: RECYCLING We Can Believe In!

Comment: Republican dreams come true. Just when they thought all was lost; along comes Barak.

The perfect storm continues to brew...

Yes I am still here if anyone wants to discuss issues and ideas instead of attacking character. That is how we change politics not by hype and hyperbole.

I have not heard a word lately about universal health care or any other issue of real substance. If democrats do not win on the issues they will not win.

ivana from Mass - love what you say about the mentality of the Obama supporters - I feel they are mindless lemmings as well!

Thank you for that insight, jlk.

jameswhanger - It ain't over til the fat lady sings!

Love you comments mrectenwald!

mrectenwald,

1. Does Enron ring any bells? How involved was the Clinton administration with this catastrophe? Did Rubin attempt to influence the financial security ratings of the company?

2. The accusation of plagiarism is blatantly disingenuous. You can dress it up and justify it all you like, that doesn't change the fact that it's a red herring.

3. You can characterize the argument that leadership traits are important as "specious", but that doesn't make it so. More importantly, most of the American people don't think so either.

Claiming a distortion isn't a distortion, doesn't change reality, as much as you might wish it did.

To you that think being a great speaker is enough - Hitler, Jim Jones, and Sadam Hussein were charismatic and great speakers and look what they did! Being a great speaker is nothing without the record to back your words and Obama just doesn't have the credentials.

grassy123 writes:

"Your argument seems to be based on the premise that Obama's campaign is 'based mostly on rhetoric.'

"Just because he is able to articulate his positions and ideas much better than Hillary does not mean his campaign is based on rhetoric. It means he can communicate more effectively than Hillary. That is a sign of a good leader and it seems odd that Hillary supporters use that as a strike against Obama."

I don't think that he IS a better communicator than Hillary Clinton. I believe he's been adept at keeping things abstract and general. But the devil is in the details, of which he has provided few. Nor has he shown in the past that he has done much to make the kinds of concrete changes that he proposes to be the agent of. Hillary has.

"Furthermore, it is insulting and a bit condescending for you to basically state that all the people voting for Obama are too ignorant to separate style from substance. Just because you have different opinions doesn't necessarily mean you are smarter than everyone else."

I am talking about the record of Obama that few of his supporters seem to think is important enough to actually investigate. Contempt prior to investigation is no worse than acceptance prior to investigation. I have no contempt for Obama and I did not discount him in advance. Rather, I have investigated his record and his background and I found a lot of holes in both. His legislative record is paltry at best. His political history includes involvement with a known and now indicted political fixer that with fresh issues as 2005 (house deal).

"Hillary's campaign:
1. You cannot claim to be about "change," when all you are changing is the date at the top of an old speech. If your rhetoric for "change" is old, then it's not much of a change."

---

First, it wasn't a speech. It was 3 minutes of a 40 minute speech. The so-called "plagiarism" involved 2 words: "Just words." The speech itself was all Barack's. The change he is calling for is real.

--------------------

"2. If our rhetoric is portable, and can be moved from one campaign to another, perhaps it is a bit disingenuous. Perhaps it's a bit cynical to adopt a series of slogans from another campaign while acting as if they are unique to your own."

---

All rhetoric is portable. Hillary uses lines and quotes from her husband Bill's many campaigns. So what? If I quote a Cicero speech from ancient Rome, does it make it any less true if it is appropriate to our own times?

---------------

"3. If one is running a campaign based mostly on rhetoric, and that rhetoric is portable and not 'unique' to the campaign, then the whole thing begins to look like a sham."

---

Obama is not running his campaign on rhetoric. He uses rhetoric, brilliantly, to explain his campaign and reawaken the hope in all of us ...which is essential if we are each to work rebuilding this nation of ours in non-partisan cooperation. His accomplishments in both the US Senate and the Illinois Senate are shimmering examples, not shams.

The claims are neither serious nor brilliant. They are specious and dirty. Desperate acts from a losing campaign which is out of ideas, out of money and out of decency. Your baseless accusation of sham redounds to your own shame.

CliffinWA - do not fear - Hillary will be the Democrat nominee and will then beat McCain in the Fall! She will be our next president!

grassy123 and other Obama supporters- Obama's campaign speeches are based on rhetoric not substance - just listen! Why do you think Hillary wants to debate him? She wants to show the American people she knows what she is talking about, she's done the research, made the plans, crossed the t's and dotted the i's. Obama does not fair well when debating her because he lacks the experience and the knowledge.

jameswhanger writes:
>The point Obama's campaign is making is >this:

>1. Demonizing an opponent's campaign as >being empty rhetoric, using empty >rhetoric rings as hollow.

Not really, esp. when Obama has also lifted her economic stimulus package months after she released it. Her charge that his campaign is empty involves two subpoints: a. He hasn't any record that backs up his positions and in fact his record is one of abdication and conciliation to the disadvantage of the people in favor of corporate donors like Exelon; b. He has now been shown to be using rhetoric that isn't even UNIQUE to the campaign. Now everyone who hears him speak has to ask themselves, is this an advertising slogan or a real conviction?

>2. Accusing someone of plagiarism, when >no serious person would draw that >conclusion, suggests a disigenuous attack.

Well, he has adopted slogans and parts of speeches from another campaign. That doesn't mean he will be sued. Plagiarism is an ethical, not a legal matter. And the plagiarized doesn't have to press the point. But the point is that for a campaign in which rhetoric is the emperor, a borrowed rhetoric means that the emperor has no clothes.

>3. Experience alone does not magically >confer the leadership traits necessary to >lead: Dick Cheney & Donald Rumsfeld come >to mind.

Specious argument. A record of doing things positively in line with the principles of the Democratic party is indeed important. He has no such record. Hillary has a long one.

>The Clinton's strategy is blatantly and >obviously an attack that distorts reality.

I disagree strongly. Rather, it is an attack that attempts to correct a distorted "reality."

Posted by:

If by "reason" you mean "false premises" and "illogical inferences", then you are correct, jlk.

mrectenwald - Hear, Hear - your voice is the voice of reason!

mrectenwald:

Your argument seems to be based on the premise that Obama's campaign is "based mostly on rhetoric."

Just because he is able to articulate his positions and ideas much better than Hillary does not mean his campaign is based on rhetoric. It means he can communicate more effectively than Hillary. That is a sign of a good leader and it seems odd that Hillary supporters use that as a strike against Obama.

Furthermore, it is insulting and a bit condescending for you to basically state that all the people voting for Obama are too ignorant to separate style from substance. Just because you have different opinions doesn't necessarily mean you are smarter than everyone else.

I also think that the charge has teeth because of Obama's record of saying one thing in terms of legislation, while eventually doing another. That was the case with the nuclear bill that he gutted to eventually favor Exelon and the Republicans. While talking a big game about how the nuclear industry must be regulated, he ended up pushing a piece of legislation that took all the teeth out of the demands, turning them into requests for voluntary submission.

Also, there is simply the matter of a slim record and a political background where some dirt is buried and has yet to be touched.

There is a reason why the Corporate Media is pushing Obama over Clinton, and that cannot be good for the people.

I think once Hillary is disposed of the issue of qualification, competence and experience will result in another republican victory. Many democrats do not have the excuse of youth in believing polls suggesting Obama has the better chance. We should all know the most pressing concern come November will be who is best qualified to be commander in chief and McCain is already staking claim to that moniker. Have you seen his "Commander in Chief" ad? I have.
The perfect storm continues to brew toward the total destruction of the Democratic Party
A divided and fractured party in a partisan, divided and fractured country.

mrectenwald,

The point Obama's campaign is making is this:

1. Demonizing an opponent's campaign as being empty rhetoric, using empty rhetoric rings as hollow.

2. Accusing someone of plagiarism, when no serious person would draw that conclusion, suggests a disigenuous attack.

3. Experience alone does not magically confer the leadership traits necessary to lead: Dick Cheney & Donald Rumsfeld come to mind.

The Clinton's strategy is blatantly and obviously an attack that distorts reality.

granta - you and others refuse to look at Hillary's record - she can't escape the fact that her husband is an ex-president and why should she? - Bill has valuable experience to share with her - she said it best in one of her debates "I'm the one here debating not Bill" - she has accomplishments of her own and to discount those is a lie!
You make sweeping accusations in your post! For instance, what does Hillary single-handedly have to do with the mounting deaths in Iraq? If anyone is to blame, it is Bush and his administration for lying to Congress, the world and the American people!
Hillary has withstood insults from people like you for years and she has done it with grace and temperance! Do you know the statement "what doesn't kill you will make you stronger"? Hillary is a prime example of this. She has been dragged though the mud by the media, some republicans, witchhunters, right-wing conservatists and Obama supporters like you and she always stays afloat. That's a quality I would like to see in a president! Hillary action, accomplishments and change (from the staus quo)!

Hillary on campaigning:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rleUPHX8yfM

The Rise and Fall of the 4th Estate
For many years now I have been concerned with the news media, especially television, not accepting the responsibility to be fair arbitrators of information. Ratings and entertainment are more important than educating the electorate. I now feel manipulated so the press can have a horse race. Any objective analysis of political news coverage will show the so called "free press" is stumping for Obama. Pay particular attention to the graphics during Super-Tuesday election coverage emphasizing Obama wins. The legitimate issue of qualification and competence to be POTUS is being ignored and discouraged as is policy differences. Chris Matthews (Feb.9) had a guest, who happens to be black, say he questions Obama as a "viable and serious" candidate; they could not get his face off the screen fast enough, the same for the other guy who try to say it was silly to believe polls today can tell what will happen in November. My question is do you think this will continue through November? Will the news machine try to salvage credibility?

The point that Hillary's campaign is making involves these items:

1. You cannot claim to be about "change," when all you are changing is the date at the top of an old speech. If your rhetoric for "change" is old, then it's not much of a change.

2. If our rhetoric is portable, and can be moved from one campaign to another, perhaps it is a bit disingenuous. Perhaps it's a bit cynical to adopt a series of slogans from another campaign while acting as if they are unique to your own.

3. If one is running a campaign based mostly on rhetoric, and that rhetoric is portable and not 'unique' to the campaign, then the whole thing begins to look like a sham.

That's the claim and it's quite serious. This is a brilliant move by the Clinton campaign. I think that the fallout is going to be significant, because Obama is running on a lot of hot air. His record is paltry at best and his rhetoric, if borrowed, will lose its lustre fast.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=91996&title=barack-obama-pt.-2&to=2

Obama on the issue of experience:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=91960&title=barack-obama-pt.-1

The Woman Has Absolutely No Shame,

I must comment on the following statement uttered, while drinking a small glass of red WHINE, by the factual Hillary Clinton " "Facts are important. I'm a facts person. If your whole candidacy is based on words, it should be your own words."

IF you are only about words, I would agree yet, I believe this is projection of the highest order for it is Clinton's candidacy that comes closest to this statement. How about the word 'experience', where are the facts to support this?

DANIEL PATRICK MOYNIHAN , the great senator from NY said 'you are entitled to your own opinion, you are not entitle to your own facts." Yet Clinton is a facts person and the following are a list of a few opinions the Clinton's have spun as facts:

her involvement in the Irish Peace process. When did she come up with this one?
the first U.S. Senator to call Darfur genocide. What about Finegold?
The spelling of her name; she was named after an unknown beekeeper in New Zealand?
In Iraq,civilian deaths have risen." Iraqi civilian deaths were down 52 percent from August and 77 percent from September 2006 ... facts matter?
Ready on day one: to do what? No one better throw her a curve for if it is not planned she's paralyzed. Look at her campaign after she was suprised by Obama.

And Barack Obama's campaign is not based merely on words but on his OWN experience not his spouse's. He is brilliant and well educated, she is merely well educated. He is a great inspirational speaker and a great organizer. She now appears to be neither. What Hillary doesn't understand is the concept of Multi-talented which is odd as she has been married to such a person; didn't she notice? Why must it always be either or?

james d granata

My wife has been a doctor for 6 years. The whole time I've been right there supporting her and living with her. Does that mean I can claim to have 6 years of experience working in the medical field?

I'm sorry that Hillary's time helping Walmart doesn't add much to her resume as far as I'm concerned. As a progressive, having Walmart as part of the "experience" you're touting does more harm than good.

"Rather than giving in to mass hysteria over a man who has not yet earned the title of "new and better" maybe we should form national support groups for those who have almost survived eight years of the most horribly negative and depressing president anyone could have ever imagined. Then we can hand the next presidency to someone (Hillary Clinton) who has spent the past thirty five years preparing for this chance to make things truly better for the country and the world.

Anne Milligan"

--------

Well, Ann, if you could make an argument beyond the strident feminist one you do make: i.e., we should elect Hillary because she is a woman and women are "essentially" better than men, you might begin to persuade.

As you wrote in a NYT blog last month:

Senator Clinton was able INTUIT what was going on there, and use her brilliant mind to respond. Unfortunately, the men were so intimidated by her that they resorted to a typical reactive behavior which is to gang up with someone to intimidate the "other". In that one moment, I realized why my blood had boiled every time I heard or read the media describe Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama as basically "the same". They are not the same at all. He is a man and she is a woman. The most recent scientific studies on the brain strongly suggest that there really are differences in the brains of men and women. This would seem totally irrelevant if it were not for the fact that we have just endured seven years of cowboy politics by a "man" who has almost decimated our standing in the world, created divisions everywhere, stirred up "us against them" scenarios every chance he's had, and cast us all into a morose national depression. WE need women in leadership now more than ever."

So...it's women vs men, eh? We should vote for Hillary JUST because she is a woman...not for all those bad men...all those gunslingers?

Doesn't sound too mentally healthy to me. Sounds like sexist anger.

Let's look beyond genitalia!

BTW, how do you , psychotherapist, defend someone like Hillary who enables a serial womanizer? What example is that to women? What messages does that send? Or are some women (bimbos?) sacrificial offerings on the altar of political expedience? Maybe their brains are quite up to snuff either?

jmv,

That's rich. Teeing up a debate about the candidates spouses for Obama seems a rather risky strategy.

Frm a previous poster:
how about these
1. your soul is borken, only obama can save your soul
2. I am proud of this country for the first time

Posted by: yanyanju | February 19, 2008 01:12 PM
------------------------------------------
And add to those from a speech she gave at UCLA:
1. I am married to the only person in this race who can heal this nation.
2.There is no one in this race who can claim that much committment to helping people.
3. Barak is one of the most briliant men you will ever meet in your lifetime.

But we don't hear too much of her statement that this will be the only run at the WH that the Obamas take and there will not be a second chance, or that she was surprised to hear that Obama had accelerated his plans for the presidency. To me, that doesn't sound like too much committment to save the US or the world as she calims Obama will do. Doesn't sound like MLK either giving up on his first defeat. But it does sound opportunistic in knowing that his best chance was running against Hillary who a lot of people didn't like and that his future chances may not be so good.

So, Hillary supporters, working Wal-Mart counts as public service, but working DIRECTLY with poor people on the south side of Chicago does not count? Working as a civil-rights attorney does NOT count?
At least Obama has also taught Constitutional Law, which will be quite helpful when we try to untangle the mess the Bush administration has left us with.

Hillary in office will be more years of the same type politics we already have. I will vote for