The Trail: A Daily Diary of Campaign 2008

No Panama has never been considered part of the U.S. - it was a territory.
Organized incorporated territories are those territories of the United States that are both incorporated (part of the United States proper) and organized (having an organized government authorized by an Organic Act passed by the U.S. Congress). Through most of U.S. history, regions that were admitted as U.S. states were, prior to admission, territories of this kind. Hawaii applied for and became a state in 1959 after being a territory in 1858. So the argument that it isn't part of the U.S. isn't valid.

Currently the only incorporated territory of the U.S. is Palmyra Atoll, which also happens to be unorganized. The District of Columbia is functionally similar to an incorporated territory, being fully a part of the United States as a non-state, but is classified separately as it was established under the unique constitutional provision for a federal capital rather than through Congressional authority over federal territory generally.
All current U.S. territories (and formally Panama) are unincorporated meaning that they are not fully part of the United States and not all aspects of the United States Constitution applys automatically. Unincorporated territories are essentially colonies, under the supremacy clause, receiving only whatever powers are offered by the U.S. Congress.
Unincorporated organized territories
* Guam
* Northern Mariana Islands (commonwealth)
* Puerto Rico (commonwealth)
* United States Virgin Islands

Unincorporated unorganized territories
* American Samoa, technically unorganized, but self-governing under a constitution last revised in 1967
* Baker Island, uninhabited
* Howland Island, uninhabited
* Jarvis Island, uninhabited
* Johnston Atoll, uninhabited
* Kingman Reef, uninhabited
* Petrel Islands, uninhabited
* Serranilla Bank, uninhabited
* Midway Islands, no indigenous inhabitants, currently included in the Midway Atoll National Wildlife Refuge
* Navassa Island, uninhabited (claimed by Haiti)
* Wake Atoll consisting of Peale, Wake and Wilkes Islands[4], no indigenous inhabitants, only contractor personnel (claimed by the Marshall Islands)

So in no way if the definition were "Natural-born" can a person born in a territory be considered born IN the U.S. Therefore the USC code would have to clarify the situation for McCain if it isn't clear enough.

Persons born in the United States, and persons born on foreign soil to two U.S. parents, are born American citizens and are classified as citizens at birth under 8 USC 1401.
Because the USC is written by congress and contains clarifications to the intent of the laws of the U.S., it can be modified without change to the constitution or interpretation by the judicial branch by mere passage in congress.
Thought you would like to know.

Actually according to the SBA law, John McCain would be considered a Latino and eligible for minority status... if you don't believe me check it out at the SBA. All people "born" in South or Central America OR has a traditionally hispanic surname is considered Latino. It has nothing to do with your race - unlike the rules for other minority groups.
So McCain should win all the Latino votes - he is one of them ! NOT

Actually McCain is cheating a bit as while technically he is not a natural born citizen and cannot serve as a PUBLIC SERVANT in two jobs, one that he has and one that he wants, he can however go to Panama and have the benefits of being Panamanian as a dual national. The appearance and the possibility that the Wisdom of the founding fathers and the writers of the constitution wanted to avoid for all time. Even in 1986 when congress did a fix for one, they clearly left Panama OUT.

Thanks for the laugh Scott. There are people arguing that Texas is not legally part of the USA either. Those arguments are virtually identical to the Hawaiian ones. Under that logic, George W. Bush is not legally President.

Yawn...he is.

And Hawaii is an American state no matter how many obscure historical reports or oddities you can pull out. Thanks again for the funny. I hope Obama wins so people can get a good laugh over and over again when some nut claims Obama is not legally President because he was born in Hawaii. The fact is if he is President then the argument about Hawaii has been settled. (Not that it really is a serious debate now...)

> Some of you have forgotten, when he was sworn into the senate he refused the Bible and after three or four days they let him use the KORAN.

Uh, no. He's Christian and he used a bible. Cheney, in his role as President of the Senate, administered the oath of office.

Senator Claire McCaskill's "natural born citizen" bill is unConstitutional because there's only two legal ways to change the U.S. Constitution as outlined in Article 5;

1. A Constitutional amendment which has to be passed by a two thirds vote in both the House and Senate and ratified by 38(three quarters majority) of the 50 states.
Ratification would likely be held up in states all across the country by those challenging McCain's eligibility and therefore wouldn't be passed in time for the November 2008 election.

2. A Constitutional Convention called by 33 U.S. states(two thirds majority)to rewrite or amend the U.S. Constitution. And then any changes still have to be ratified by a three quarters majority(38) of the 50 states.

Ratification would still be held up and wouldn't help McCain become eligible for the 2008 election.

Based on the U.S. Constitution, McCain's going to have to drop out of the 2008 race.

One more example of Obama Leadership and Clinton Empty Suit non-action and McCain "dah" preperation.

To the trolls - what goes around comes around. LOL

You don't have to forgive JakeD's. He provides intelligent and observations. Regarding BARACK - HUSSEIN - OBANA why don't some of you people ask BARACK HUSSEIN OBANA if he is elected president will he use the HOLY BIBLE when he is sworn into office. Some of you have forgotten, when he was sworn into the senate he refused the Bible and after three or four days they let him use the KORAN. I for one am not ready for a MUSLIN to take over america. I AM AMERICAN AND I LOVE MY COUNTRY AND ALL WAYS HAVE FROM BIRTH TO THIS DAY!!!!

this thread is where irony goes to die

"Ooooohhhh, I've been WAITING for this for months!!!! WooHoo!

It's a real dilemma - whether jus sanguinis - "right of blood", jus soli - "right of the soil" or both applies. "
........

Actually, there is little chance that this legislation will ever have any effect, whether Congress has the right to clarify constitutional words or not. The courts would probably determine that no one has standing to sue, except another Presidential candidate. Sen McCain's probable opponent has no intention of forcing the issue. So, while Sen McCaskill's legislation is likely an empty gesture, Sen Obama's decision to co-sponsor it has some practical value.

Is this REALLY an issue? Wasn't the Panama Canal Zone PART of the United States at the time McCain was born, even thought it isn't now. It was a territory of the US rom 1903-1999, therefore all those born there were (or should be) considered citizens of the United States. McCain was born in 1935. It was part of the US then. What's the issue?

Here's another interesting twist to consider.

Obama was born in Hawaii.

Those unfamiliar with Hawaii and its history may be surprised to learn that there is a rather extensive and vigorous debate in the islands about whether they are in fact legally a part of the United States. It may seem far-fetched if you've never heard of it, but for example, when Bill Clinton signed the 1993 apology acknowledging the U.S. role in the illegal intervention and overthrow of Hawaii's government in 1893, Senator Slade Gorton warned on the senate floor "...the logical consequences of this resolution would be independence."

And here's just one example of a scholarly work that presents the arguments, published in the "Hawaiian Journal of Law and Politics" out of the University of Hawaii:

AMERICAN OCCUPATION OF THE HAWAIIAN STATE: A CENTURY UNCHECKED

http://www2.hawaii.edu/~hslp/journal/vol1/Sai_Article_(HJLP).pdf

If you for a moment consider the premise of the true legal status of Hawaii being one of prolonged occupation somewhat akin to the Baltic States under the Soviet Union, then you have to ponder the question of Obama's status as a "natural born citizen" as well.

If McCain is a natural born citizen and qualified because of jus sanguinis, parentage, then so is Obama.

But McCain himself feels it necessary to ask Olson to research it for him, and McCaskill and Obama feel it necessary to introduce legislation to clarify it.

And according to their legislation, McCain would be covered due to the military connection, but this would not address Obama's status if you consider the argument that being born in Hawaii may not be being born in the United States.

Again, I know it sounds far-fetched to many, and I'm also an Obama supporter, so I'm not out to try to undermine him with this argument, but I'm just pointing out that the argument out there, and at the very least it is amusing to ponder from a constitutional law geek sort of point of view...

Incidentally, wouldn't Hillary be considered to be running away from her born middle name? I guess that makes her:

Hillary DIANE Rodham Clinton.

BB

P.S. I promise to limit my troll feeding to one post a day. The trolls are getting too fat around here.

Re: E

JAKE (you seem to like typing names in all caps). You asked another poster the lie you are accused of. The lie you have told is that Barack Obama is running away from his middle name.

Nearly every person I know goes by their first name. A few, including my older brother, use their middle name. A few, like yourself, prefer to use a nickname.

Do you introduce yourself as James JAKE Hanson (or whatever your last name is, I don't really care). Then again, even if you did that, you would be running away from your own middle name.

I haven't seen a single post referring to John SIDNEY McCain or Hillary RODHAM Clinton. So, one can easily conclude that you are drawing attention to his middle name and repeating the insinuation that he's muslim. Pathetic. Tossing a smiley at the end doesn't make it sarcasm. Just witless.

BTW - Would the Wash Post please consider booting ebubuk2004 off these boards. He/she is posting that same crap line for line on as many threads as he/she can find.

BB

Unfortunately for Juan McAmnesty, a simple act of Congress, by itself, cannot amend the U.S. Constitution. Such an act to amend the Constitution (which is in fact what is being proposed) has to be submitted to, and ratified by, the requisite number of state legislatures. The Constitution gives Congress no such power to change the wording of that section of the Constitution with only a simple legislative act. If ratified by the requisite number of state legislatures, then fine and good.....Juan McAmnesty can legally run for president. Until that happens, he's not legally qualified and there is simply no constitutional way around that fact. Of course, that won't stop legislators who have no intention of abiding by their oath of office.

julieds-LOL! Obasama, Oops, Barack HUSSEIN Obasama supporters are on this site, and THEY have been "Clintoning" JakeD?

OMG! Who'd have thunk that? ;~)

LOL!

As I tried mentioning a hundred posts ago,

at a time when there are MILLIONS of Hispanics and Canadians with NO loyalties to this Nation, but have been Naturalized at Birth thanks to an idiotic Loophole that DOES need Amending(HR:1940-Birthright Citizenship Act(Gathering dust on Ninny Peloser's Desk)), which allows "Anchor Babies" as well, the ENTIRE Concept needs to be reconsidered! The Governator can't run, because he was not born here, but Bill Richardson can, only because his Dad shipped his Mammacita post haste to the US to drop him!

No creo yo! :-(

the intent of this bill is sound, but it may be too loosely worded. what about children born of casual (or paid?) relationships between military or diplomatic personnel stationed abroad and locals? and who maybe never set foot on US soil until he or she decided to run for president? i realize the odds of a successful run are close to zero; but longshots do come in.

I would like to take this opportunity to apologize to JakeD for all the humorless posters on this group. Some of us can read emoticons, Jake.

Also McCaskill has little influence as a freshman senator so she probably wants to use this as an opportunity to bask in the reflected glory of McCain. Also she wants to get some press and actually introduce a piece of legislation that could pass; inconsequential as it may be. At some point, maybe we can get to dealing with real issues.

This is basically a constitutional non-issue. But if I were Obama I would definitely want to make it sure that McCain would be my opponent.

Here at the biff-filmfestival.de we have one category for entries called "personal damage". maybe JakeD should make a film about himself to be shown there. Disgusting!

I'm voting for Barack Hussein Obama, not John Sidney McCain or Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton because Hussein means "handsome" in Arabic. Sidney means "old fart" in Chinese and Diane means "fat pantsuit" in Lithuanian.

This is an obvious law that should be written -one of those rare bi-partisan moments, which is news in itself. I like that its a couple Dems that are sponsoring the bill, there are a few things that we all can agree on.

There are some weird and not relevant posts on here - mostly from Jake D. JakeD take your meds...

C'mon, now, everyone.... JakeD put a little "wink" after his comment. I believe he typed "HUSSEIN" just to have fun with folks whom it'd bug.

That said, I think we (Obama's supporters) should be repeating Barack Obama's full name over and over, because the more familiar a word becomes, the less power it has to come off as foreign or threatening (to those sensitive types who think anyone named Hussein is scary).

Barack HUSSEIN Obama '08!

Yeah, maybe Obama's middle name has a negative connotation to many Americans.

But at this point it might be worse if his middle name was "W."

Ooooohhhh, I've been WAITING for this for months!!!! WooHoo!

It's a real dilemma - whether jus sanguinis - "right of blood", jus soli - "right of the soil" or both applies. The first means you receive your citizenship from your parents, which is recognized by the United States, Canada, and *some* other nations. The second means you receive it by being born within the country of your birth. Some say either applies, some say the second, some say both which is a BIG immigration debate among, guess what? Republicans!

For example, I was born in Canada, to a US mother and a 'dual citizen' father (US and Canada). So I'm considered American by jus sanguinis and a Canadian by jus soli AND jus sanguinis. My father falls in this category as well.

Some countries require that BOTH parents be (naturalized) citizens AND the child be born within its borders to be considered a "natural born citizen" (e.g. Japan). Still others say at least one parent and born within the country (e.g. Ireland). It is a real debate on a international scale, but the 14th Amendment pretty much settles it for the US. Ironic, the amendment that freed the slaves and gave them citizenship may be the linchpin that allows a white man to be president. LMAO!!!

This debate reveals ALOT about McCain, Obama and the immigration debate. If a Japanese-like requirements were to apply - which certain Republicans are screaming for - then NEITHER qualify as President. Under the 14th Amendment - by soil - Obama is perfectly safe but McCain is a big question mark. Under Irish rules Obama is still safe but again, McCain's @$$ is grass.

So now can you see why McCain *may* be rather sympathetic to immigrant families? Many Repubs are trying to outright prevent illegal immigrants "anchor babies" from having automatic citizenship, so him being born outside the US makes their histrionics even more hypocritical and awkward. He has "anchor parents". How ironic!!!!

And before you guys get all pissy, remember none of the founding fathers would qualify without the special provision in the Constitution that exempted them. They recognized the US didn't exist so they had to declare themselves "natural born citizens".

JakeD

Why would the only comment you thought to make regarding the constitutionality of the republican candidate's presidential viability be to type Barack Obama's middle name in all capital letters? Were we to assume that had any other meaning than to point out what I believe we all know is his middle name (very impressive)? Or was there actually an insinuation about his middle name you were implying (more likely)? Since Mr. Obama is, by very clear constitutional definition, a natural born citizen, I fail to see any other point you could have been trying to make. Maybe you would like to elaborate.

And why should anyone be proud of a name? It's not as if you accomplished anything to deserve it. I met a man named Harry Buttox (who I am sure was not necessarily proud of his name). Very bright man and a fabulous doctor. Now that is something to be proud of. And while I am sure neither Barak or Michele is afraid of or running away from his middle name, while running for the presidential nomination post 9/11 it would not be considered a plus for at least some of the voting public. Which I'm very sure you're aware of.

And who cares whether YOUR name is James, Jake or Buffy? It certainly does not in any way indicate who you are as a person, what you've accomplished or how you treat or view other people. However, responding by typing HUSSEIN certainly does.

Natural born, hunh? Well, what about caesarian section? What about if you're born on an airplane over the mid-Atlantic? What about... oh, I don't know, what if you're a corporation, an immortal legal ficition of a person? Hmm.

I think it's a really good thing that Obama has a Muslim link as indicated by his middle name. Muslims in the world will feel more affinity with the US, which will help us in the ideological war we're fighting.

I think That PANAMA MAC would be the fav. of all central Americans! PANAMA MAC is a great guy! No one should stop him from running just because he is a natural born PANAMANIAN CITIZEN. I think that PANAMA MAC should be proud of his DUAL CITIZENSHIP. It qualifies PANAMA MAC as being more attuned to the needs of CENTRAL AMERICANS like himself. When election day comes I think all immigrants should be proud to vote for PANAMA MAC!

I have decided to support Barack Obama//HUSSEIN//I believe that Barack Obama offers the best opportunity for a positive progressive political agenda//HUSSEIN//.

However, I do so with a few concerns//HUSSEIN//I have heard scandalous//HUSSEIN//rumors that he is a Muslim//HUSSEIN//Were these rumors to//HUSSEIN//be true, I would definitely//HUSSEIN//rethink my//HUSSEIN//choice//HUSSEIN//

Does anyone//HUSSEIN//know anything//HUSSEIN//about//HUSSEIN//this?

As others have pointed out, this is a constitutional question and outside the power of Congress to redefine without constitutional amendment. It seems clear to me that serving members of the military have no additional constitutional privileges over other US citizens with regard to their children, so if my hypothetical child born to a prostitute in Bangkok is ineligible, then McCain should be too.

It's strange to me that no one has mentioned the controversy over Cheney's constitutional status. The Constitution requires the president and vice president to be inhabitants of different states, yet by all reasonable standards (driver's license, voter registration, where he spent his time, his place of employment) Cheney was an inhabitant of Texas just like Bush. Somehow the courts bought the fairy story that he was still an inhabitant of his native state of Wyoming. Cheney should not have been allowed to run for Vice President. But then, who needs the Constitution anymore, it's a living document that means whatever we want it to mean an any given moment right?

Would birth by "C-Section" be considered not "Natural." Hmmmmm.

Would birth by "C-Section" be un-natural? Hmmmm.

I think it is just plain funny that so many people think that they are better Constitutional scholars than Obama, who has taught courses on the subject.

How funny is this? The neo-scum's main man isn't even qualified to become President.
Good job you brain-dead idiots.

It was "politically astute" of Barack Hussein Obama to support the above bill. He's a smoothy, like velvet. And so many of you are "taken in" by all of this empty rhetoric and flowery, empowering speeches. It's not that important that the President of the USA be a great orator. I think the Obamanites need to be deprogrrammed. What is wrong with you people? He is saying "nothing"! Change? Change what? Change how? Do you think he can just pull all the troops out of Iraq? Are you truly that ignorant? He is selling you a "bill of goods". At least Hillary Clinton gives you a more realistic picture because she is trying to give you the truth. Honestly, I never realized there were so many morons inhabiting this great Nation. I'm sure the families of those who died on September 11, 2001, are thanking you for your complete denial of how things really are in this world. Obama is sending you all to "La La Land", and the rest of us are going to pay for it. He says "nothing". Snap out of it!

This is a complete non-issue. Babies born to US military parents abroad get an extra page stapled to their birth certificates. It's called "Birth of American Citizen Abroad." However, Panama was a US possession at the time of McCain's birth. There is absolutely no need for any sort of investigation of this. It is a ridiculous non-issue. Obama is trying to win points buy passing a law that does nothing that wasn't already in place. Consider how absurd it would be if we deemed all babies born on US military bases to US citizens abroad NOT to be natural born US citizens. The NYT and any reputable news agency could simply check a wiki on this and be done with it. If they cared more about truth and reality than printing a controversial-sounding story.
--Natural Born US Citizen, born at a military hospital in Europe.

cyberbian:

Wouldn't your proposed "rule" have EXCLUDED John F. Kennedy from the Presidency? His great-grandparents came to America in the mid 1840s to flee the Irish famine. His father, in fact, financed the Nazi Third Reich. Did you ever read "Sins of the Father" by Ronald Kessler?

http://www.amazon.com/Sins-Father-Kennedy-Dynasty-Founded/dp/0446603848

To answer a question from someone way up in this list. We differentiate between natural citizens and naturalized citizens, to hopefully keep a foreign influcence from infiltrating this country and becoming president. We don't want a president with loyaltys to some other land or political philosophy.

I personally believe this should be a three or four generation restriction. Here is why:
Lets say a particular family's patriarch who had just arrived in the US, financed the Nazi Third Reich. You would not want their grandsons and great grandsons who might still have Nazi values to become president!

thrapp:

Can you please point out one "LIE" you think I've told about Barack HUSSEIN Obama (that's his real middle name, you know?).

To elaborate, I think many people misunderstand the ANG's role. The typical view is that the ANG is rarely deployed overseas, and is primarily a militia-type force. This had more truth in the past (c. 1970) and was consequently used by many draft dodgers to avoid hard service. Of late, however, the ANG has become one of the principal overseas fighting forces in our nation's arsenal. ANG soldiers have served extensively in Iraq and some in Afghanistan. The New York and Florida components are good examples. Morevoer, some special forces groups are now under the ANG umbrella. Just a bit more info. that might be useful to some.

jmundstuk:

I did read that HUSSEIN means "good" or "handsome" -- Obama should be PROUD of his name -- maybe it's like Michelle Obama never being proud of her country before?

On second thought, since their stupid president has been lying to us all for years, it's not surprising that the right-wingnuts think the answer to Obama is more LIES, LIES and LIES!

fueller:

I believe it is a misconception that the National Guard is distinct from the "Big Army." My understanding is that ANG soldiers are classified as Reservists and are entitled to all the same rights and privileges. The main difference is that the ANG is under both state and federal authority (and that authority may shift to favor one or the other depending on whether or not the U.S. is at war), whereas the Reserve is only under federal authority.

Hope this helps.

I just love these right-wingnuts BRAGGING about their vaunted right-wing attack machine! Only a moron could be PROUD of something like that!
Fortunately, more ugly swiftboating will not work with Senator Obama. Intelligent Americans have had it with that crap!

JakeD -- You've got a knack for writing that draws a response. Congrats. There's a spot for you on the Clinton or McCain campaigns.

As for Hussein, check out Juan Cole's rant/exploration of muslim-based names in his column 2/27 post on Informed Comment blog.

Cole says "Now let us take the name "Hussein." It is from the Semitic word, hasan, meaning "good" or "handsome." Husayn is the diminutive, affectionate form."

Aww. Cute, huh?

Wouldn't this have to be something passed by amendment to the constitution (or throught judicial interpretation thereof)?

The legislation as it is currently written does not cover US intelligence officers, State Department officials, Peace Corps, USAID officials, or any of the many other agencies that employ Americans overseas in the service of our country. At a bare minimum, it should be amended to include eligibility for children of all U.S. citizens serving the US government overseas. Frankly, I believe that it should be changed to "anyone born a U.S. citizen."

John Sidney McCain III deserves to be the nominee of the Republican party. Need I say more?

If this isn't adjudicated before November (and McCain wins), this will make the controvery over the Florida vote in 2000 look like nothing.

McCain Says Citizenship a Dead Issue
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iJ3AHoO_Qz6G8f2AyVBVqU0q9RkwD8V3N9283

Excerpt:

McCain's campaign asked former Solicitor General Ted Olson for a legal interpretation of the issue.

Olson said he is still researching the issue but is certain McCain is qualified. The plain meaning of "natural-born citizen" includes those born to parents who are citizens, particularly when they are born on a U.S. military base as McCain was, Olson said.

"I am confident that the United States Supreme Court, should it ever address the issue, would agree," Olson said in a statement.

Until the court rules on this constitutional matter, how can his certainty be certain enough? It isn't. This will go to the U.S. Supreme Court. If it doesn't go to court before the election, it certainly will after. It will be a difficult case because if being born in the Canal Zone counts as natural born citizen, then the court will need to make a full definition that clearly defines the qualifications.

It would be best to do this through an amendment, but the complexity could get ugly because of all the different scenarios. The easiest decision would be that natural born citizen is only those who are born in the U.S. Alternatively, an amendment could remove the natural born citizen part from the Constitution opening it up to who knows what. That definitely would be controversial, but very clear nonetheless.

BTW, while I'm an Obama supporter, how does a Con Law professor support this legislation?!

LOL! Let's give credit where it is due.

One of the first I caught nailing "Hussein", was Ann Coulter. I thought it was very well done! :-)

Just enough of a Jib to Jive, without going over the Top! ;~)

Senator Barack Hussein and his supporters better get thicker skins quick, or you will all be crying by November! ;~)

As is, some of us might be preferring Him to Her, and have not even begun to Lock and Load for such easy targets! ;~)

What Senate aide failed to mention Oregon v. Smith or City of Boerne to Clair? The Court has clearly stated that Legislative "redfinitions" do not pass Constitutional muster.

If she's serious, she needs to introduce a Constituitional amendment, nothing less.

Any first year law student can tell you this unconstitutional. What's this senator's problem? Does MO really lack in so greatly in legislative talent that they send someone with NO understanding of Constitutional process to this body?

This is a case in which we've moved beyond "strict constructionism" in our interpretation of the Constitution into the realm of literalism: Frankly, what the words literally mean is that those who were not citizens at the time of the Constitution's adoption are ineligible to become President, which is to say, everyone alive today. The reason this whole matter of "natural born" has not been addressed in times past is that it is foolishness.

TheUrbanRevolution:

Michelle Obama, for one, is upset about anyone using "HUSSEIN" -- did you miss the post above where I said I am not afraid of my middle name -- are you saying Obama is NOT afraid of his middle name?

http://weblogs.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/blog/2008/02/michelle_obama_name_hussein_is.html

Jake, everyone does not necessarily have a nefarious agenda. I've found that the character flaws that we see in other are usually the flaws that we have ourselves.

WE OBAMANITES HAVE ADDED HUSSEIN TO OUR NAMES!

"Those who make peaceful evolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy

I need this to be clarified further. I want to be president but was born an american citizen on foreign soil. I was not born in an embassy or on a military installation, but my birth was completely "natural" (no drugs involved). Am I a "Natural Born US Citizen"? Maybe Claire can jot a few amendments down on another legal pad to make me eligable.

jxhzut6156:

Be my guest to post whatever you'd like about my name -- I don't run away from it ; )

Statutory law does not trump Constitutional text. Even myself, a proponent of a living Constitution knows that.

The McCaskill "fix" is plainly unconstitutional.

Of course, I believe that McCain is all American and should without a doubt be qualified to run for president. But....is a good thing McCain was born on a US base in Panama and not Guantanamo.

"Cuban sovereignty over Guantanamo exists only in the abstract. Yet it is, for the U.S. government, a convenient legal fiction. In the current litigation over the fate of the hundreds of detainees held on Guantanamo, the government's position is premised on the fact that Guantanamo is technically foreign soil. Because Guantanamo is part of Cuba, argues the government, it is beyond the reach of American courts."

Well JakeD, Since your "real" first name is ("JAMES"), will you please,in the future,when posting comments say so! Instead of JakeD, try something like "My name is JAMES as in Timothy "JAMES" McVeigh" a decorated US war Veteran who killed 168 Americans including several American infants in Oklahoma City.

Common sense says: Anyone who is eligible to be citizen at the time of birth should be considered natural born citizen as opposed to naturalized citizen who become eligible sometime after birth.

May be out forefathers expected common sense to prevail but...

Farrakhan pray at Obama's inauguration
Farrakhan pray at Obama's inauguration
Farrakhan pray at Obama's inauguration
Farrakhan pray at Obama's inauguration
Farrakhan pray at Obama's inauguration
Farrakhan pray at Obama's inauguration

If obama wins, he will turn Amreica into Sudan

God Help us From

Racist Farrkhan

Racist Pastor Wright

Racist and Homley Michelle

And

SULTAN Obama Hussien

Obama's pastor disses Natalee Holloway

'White girl goes off and gives it up' in Aruba, preacher pal says

'White girl goes off and gives it up' in Aruba, preacher pal says

Posted: January 27, 2008
6:49 pm Eastern

© 2008 WorldNetDaily.com

Natalee Holloway

Sen. Barack Obama's longtime friend and spiritual adviser trashed the memory of a missing and presumed dead American teenage girl, according to church publications reviewed by WND.

Rev. Jeremiah Wright, the controversial minister of Obama's church in Chicago, cited the case of Natalee Holloway's disappearance in Aruba in complaining about what he sees as the media's bias in covering white victims of crime over black victims.

"Black women are being raped daily in Darfur, Sudan, in the Congo and in Sub-Saharan Africa. That doesn't make news," Wright said in the August 2005 edition of Trumpet Magazine, a publication of his Trinity United Church of Christ.

But, "One 18-year-old white girl from Alabama gets drunk on a graduation trip to Aruba, goes off and 'gives it up' while in a foreign country, and that stays in the news for months!" he added. "Maybe I am missing something!"

(Story continues below)

The circumstances involving the coed's disappearance remain unclear, and the case remains unsolved. Holloway left Mountain Brook, Ala., on a May 2005 senior class trip to Aruba.

Barack Obama

Attempts to reach her family for comment were unsuccessful. But her mother, Beth Holloway, has written a book, "Loving Natalee," in which she reveals her daughter named Jesus Christ as one of the most influential people in her life in a trove of writings she found in her bedroom.

In the same 2005 church publication, Wright suggested "white America" had the 9/11 attacks coming, while calling for business "divestment from Israel," which he refers to as a "racist" state along with America.

"In the 21st century, white America got a wake-up call after 9/11/01," he wrote on page 7. "White America and the Western world came to realize that people of color had not gone away, faded into the woodwork or just 'disappeared,' as the Great White West kept on its merry way of ignoring Black concerns."

Obama says he is "proud" of Wright and values their 20-year friendship.

Though Wright has nurtured Obama's political career as a close adviser and mentor, the Democrat presidential hopeful says they don't agree on everything. Wright married Obama and baptized his daughters.

Louis Farrakhan

In the November/December 2007 issue of Trumpet, Wright sang the praises of Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan, who has described whites as "blue-eyed devils" and Jews as "bloodsuckers."

"He brings a perspective that is helpful and honest," Wright said. "Minister Farrakhan will be remembered as one of the 20th and 21st century giants of the African-American religious experience."

Wright then held Farrakhan up as a pillar of "integrity."

"His integrity and honesty have secured him a place in history as one of the nation's most powerful critics," he continued. "His love for Africa and African-American people has made him an unforgettable force, a catalyst for change and a religious leader who is sincere about his faith and his purpose."

Farrakhan's photo is splashed across the cover of the church magazine, which gushes "the Minister truly epitomized greatness."

On Nov. 2, 2007, Wright presented Farrakhan with a "lifetime achievement" award during a Trumpet gala held at the Hyatt Regency Chicago. The tribute included a three-and-a-half minute video lionizing "the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan."

"For his commitment to truth, education and leadership, we honor Minister Louis Farrakhan with the Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. Lifetime Achievement Award," the video announce

God Help us From

Racist Farrkhan

Racist Pastor Wright

Racist and Homley Michelle

And

SULTAN Obama Hussien

Obama's pastor disses Natalee Holloway

'White girl goes off and gives it up' in Aruba, preacher pal says

'White girl goes off and gives it up' in Aruba, preacher pal says

Posted: January 27, 2008
6:49 pm Eastern

© 2008 WorldNetDaily.com

Natalee Holloway

Sen. Barack Obama's longtime friend and spiritual adviser trashed the memory of a missing and presumed dead American teenage girl, according to church publications reviewed by WND.

Rev. Jeremiah Wright, the controversial minister of Obama's church in Chicago, cited the case of Natalee Holloway's disappearance in Aruba in complaining about what he sees as the media's bias in covering white victims of crime over black victims.

"Black women are being raped daily in Darfur, Sudan, in the Congo and in Sub-Saharan Africa. That doesn't make news," Wright said in the August 2005 edition of Trumpet Magazine, a publication of his Trinity United Church of Christ.

But, "One 18-year-old white girl from Alabama gets drunk on a graduation trip to Aruba, goes off and 'gives it up' while in a foreign country, and that stays in the news for months!" he added. "Maybe I am missing something!"

(Story continues below)

The circumstances involving the coed's disappearance remain unclear, and the case remains unsolved. Holloway left Mountain Brook, Ala., on a May 2005 senior class trip to Aruba.

Barack Obama

Attempts to reach her family for comment were unsuccessful. But her mother, Beth Holloway, has written a book, "Loving Natalee," in which she reveals her daughter named Jesus Christ as one of the most influential people in her life in a trove of writings she found in her bedroom.

In the same 2005 church publication, Wright suggested "white America" had the 9/11 attacks coming, while calling for business "divestment from Israel," which he refers to as a "racist" state along with America.

"In the 21st century, white America got a wake-up call after 9/11/01," he wrote on page 7. "White America and the Western world came to realize that people of color had not gone away, faded into the woodwork or just 'disappeared,' as the Great White West kept on its merry way of ignoring Black concerns."

Obama says he is "proud" of Wright and values their 20-year friendship.

Though Wright has nurtured Obama's political career as a close adviser and mentor, the Democrat presidential hopeful says they don't agree on everything. Wright married Obama and baptized his daughters.

Louis Farrakhan

In the November/December 2007 issue of Trumpet, Wright sang the praises of Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan, who has described whites as "blue-eyed devils" and Jews as "bloodsuckers."

"He brings a perspective that is helpful and honest," Wright said. "Minister Farrakhan will be remembered as one of the 20th and 21st century giants of the African-American religious experience."

Wright then held Farrakhan up as a pillar of "integrity."

"His integrity and honesty have secured him a place in history as one of the nation's most powerful critics," he continued. "His love for Africa and African-American people has made him an unforgettable force, a catalyst for change and a religious leader who is sincere about his faith and his purpose."

Farrakhan's photo is splashed across the cover of the church magazine, which gushes "the Minister truly epitomized greatness."

On Nov. 2, 2007, Wright presented Farrakhan with a "lifetime achievement" award during a Trumpet gala held at the Hyatt Regency Chicago. The tribute included a three-and-a-half minute video lionizing "the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan."

"For his commitment to truth, education and leadership, we honor Minister Louis Farrakhan with the Rev. Dr. Jeremiah A. Wright Jr. Lifetime Achievement Award," the video announces.

I can sense that the Clintons will sue McCain on the citizenship issue even if Obama gets the nomination.

"A lesser candidate (Hillary) would have simply done nothing and hoped that the revalation would hurt McCain and the Republican party's bid for the White House."

OBJECTION! - speculation.

Obama proved himself again that he is good at making judgements. Even though John Mccain is his potential adversary in the coming elections, he wants to do the right thing for him. Koodos to Obama.
But I think this did not go far enough. Any one borne to US citizens (both father and mother) any where in the world should be considered as natural born citizen. Conversely, a person cannot be considered natural born citizen if both the parents are not united states citizens even if the person is born on the United States soil. That person will be a citizenship but not a natural born citizen which is required to run for the president of United States. Would that place obama in an ineligible position to run for the president? But that could be going forward, not the present situation.

VTDuffman:See above, according to Amendment 14 they are a citizen if they are born here.

The bill in question here is very specific in that it refers to Article II, Section 5.
----------
Ah yes. So the controversy would seem to not imply anything about anchor babies. But congressional action wouldn't seem to affect the McCain situation. It simply underscores the conflict between the Constitution and the more recent acts of congress that fall far short of an amendment.

"If this act were supportable, it would seem to answer the reverse situation. In other words, if an illegal alien gave birth in the United States (neither parent a citizen), the child would not be a natural-born citizen of the United States."

---

See above, according to Amendment 14 they are a citizen if they are born here.

The bill in question here is very specific in that it refers to Article II, Section 5.

In the NYT article, "multiple experts and scholarly reviews say the issue has never been definitively resolved by either Congress or the Supreme Court."

In a conflict with the Constitution, the Constitution takes precedence. I am not saying that McCain is inelligible, but would best be settled once for all before the election.

If this act were supportable, it would seem to answer the reverse situation. In other words, if an illegal alien gave birth in the United States (neither parent a citizen), the child would not be a natural-born citizen of the United States.

Article II, Section 1

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

I wonder if John fathered any children in Vietnam prior to being captured? If so they will also be declared US Citizens, as will tens of thousands of children (now adults) whose DNA will prove paternity. "Any person born to any citizen ...while serving..." DNA is taken on all military personnel, so this seems to open up potential suits for proof of paternity.

Pandora, your box is open...

The point is simple...

For Obama to openly support this shows tremendous integrity. This is why I wholeheartedly throw my support behind him despite his Junior status in the Senate.

p.s. (to hamishdad)

>>>If a baby in the U.S. is delivered
>>>by c-section, is he or she considered
>>>to be natural-born citizen?
February 29, 2008 01:43 PM

HAHAAHAH!! nice!

"

It is a stunning irony that McCain's citizenship status is even in question (given the facts surrounding his birth to 2 US citizens on a military posting, his patriotism, his military service/heroism and his public service record), BUT that the citizenship status of a child born in the United States of illegal immigrants would be unquestioned.

Go figure."

---

It's not Ironic in the slightest. We're talking about two different sections of the Constitution. The language in Article II is very vague (cited in this article).

The language in Amendment 14, however, is very clear: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

Children born in this country are US Citizens, regardless of the citizenship of their parents.

If you take umbrage with so-called "Anchor Babies," the first step that you are going to have to take is to amend the US Constitution.

jplungis, you do know that Hawaii is a U.S. state don't you?

Referring to this as a loophole seems rather incorrect. It seems to be a constitutional question that has not be challenged yet in court. I am not suggesting a challenge, but I would expect that if McCain were elected, the challenge would required the Supreme Court to rule.

Courtney:

My actual first name is James. I don't run away from that just because everyone knows me as Jake. See the difference?

I'm just glad to see the Senator from Illinois finally involved in some important (?!?) legislation.

jplungis you wrote (I wonder if Obama's helping out McCain with this problem, to cover his being born in Hawaii). Do the flippin math. Barack is 46, which if you went to school and paid attention, would mean that Hawaii was a state when he was born.
Our schools are failing.....

It is a stunning irony that McCain's citizenship status is even in question (given the facts surrounding his birth to 2 US citizens on a military posting, his patriotism, his military service/heroism and his public service record), BUT that the citizenship status of a child born in the United States of illegal immigrants would be unquestioned.

Go figure.

The bill should be amended to included children of any U.S. citizens living or traveling abroad.

Arguably, every U.S. citizen living or traveling abroad is an ambassador of this country. And, arguably, non-military U.S. citizens living or traveling abroad have as much a role to play in how our country is perceived by the rest of the world as members of our fine military.

The language in the Constitution is not exactly crystal clear: "No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President;"

Although it is hard to imagine the Supreme Court defining "natural born Citizen" so narrowly as to exclude someone born to US parents while serving in the military in a US territory, there are probably some strict constructionalists -- the very type of justices that Sen. McCain would like to appoint more of -- who would argue that since the framers of the Constitution did not envision the US holding territories, "natural born" would mean only those born in actual states. Moreover, strict constructionalists would not usually let the Congress get by with defining a constitutional term by a simple Act of Congress.

Although I would think it ridiculous to exclude Sen. McCain based on the inprecise language of the Constitution in this case, there would be some poetic justice to seeing him done in by the very narrow judicial philosophy which he and his party promote.

KST

"The significance of Barack co-sponsoring this bill is that it gives us all a glimpse of the type of leader he is and will be as President. He didn't have to act on this at all."
You're kidding, right, kthhrrsn? How many votes do you think would be against this? It's an obvious no-brainer.

At least Mr. McCain's loyalty's are toward's the US and I believe his parents were both born here.

"Natural Born"? Does that test-tube babies born in artificial wombs can't be President? There ought to be a law!!!

Alright JakeD, I'll take the bait. Hussein is probably the second most common name among societies that have been influenced by Islamic teachings (i.e., most of north and east Africa). Husayn Ibn Ali was the grandson of the prophet Muhammad, and so he is a revered religious figure among Shi'a Muslims. So, JACOB, making fun of the name Hussein is like making fun of anyone that has a biblical name. You got that, JACOB??

ps-Barak is also a biblical character from the Book of Judges.

Beats me as to why it's supposedly a bad thing, unless people are still just fearmongering.

"Hussein" just means "good" or "small handsome one".

http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Hussein

In other words, whoop-dee-freaking-doo.

Dial 1-900-NO-ISSUE and press 9/11 for other stupid fear tactics.

Can someone please explain to me why anyone would find Barack Obama's middle name a negative, when we as a country are spending all of our "blood and treasure" in an effort to both liberate and rebuild two Muslim countries with millions of Husseins?

If we don't truly love Muslims, why have we spent the last five years fighting for them?

Nope. No revocation needed. Just an override. Besides, 8 USC 1401(c) and 8 USC 1403(a) were part of the same bill, so there is no override needed. Besides, as the Mudslinger pointed out, if 8 USC 1401(c) applied to PCZ people, then why would 8 USC 1403(a) need to be there, in the SAME act, at the same time? He answers that question in the blog as well.

Folks, personal attacks on other Posters is NOT allowed.

But, it is the Norm nowadays with the so-called "Liberals". Seems they are all for Freedom of Speech, just so long as it is THEIR Viewpoints being heard! :-(

JakeD has made way too many very astute and factual comments to deserve criticism for a little Satire now and then. Life is Dull and Stressful, be happy for any Smiles you can find along the Road! :-)

NOW, back to the Topic:

The whole concept of a Candidate having to be a Naturalized Citizen has been badly eroded by the Anchor Baby Scam. Way too many "Citizens" are in reality NOT! To have been dropped in San Diego, or Laredo, to then be raised in Mexico, is far less justification for Candidacy than the efforts and assimilations someone like Ahnold, the Governator has done! The entire Law needs serious re-thinking!

And HR:1940 needs serious ACTION!

NO person illegally in this Country, or just Passing through, deserves to be able to SCAM a US Citizen! Look at what Bill Richardson's Parents pulled! :-(

To be considered "natural born" does not require that one be born on US soil. Only that a person be born to at least one parent who is a US citizen. The Times pointed out a distinction without a difference, proving once again whom they'r rooting for.

Michael said:

"But he's not a natural born citizen.
Go check out http://muddythoughts.blogspot.com/2008/02/panmanchurian-candidate-mccain.html to see why."

The logic of that web-site would require that McCain's prior natural born citizenship (purusant to 8 USC 1401(c)) would have to have been revoked so that he could then have been "declared" a citizen pursuant to 8 USC 1403.

The muddythoughts were indeed muddy -- and wrong.

First, I would like to thank the New York Times for bringing to the forefront this loophole in our Constitution. Because of the foresight of our founding fathers, the people have the ability to correct such oversights; and I am glad to see Senator McCaskill of Missouri exercise those rights by the introduction of her legislation. I am not a McCain supporter, I haven't made up my mind at all; but feel he has earned the right to become President, if so elected. Those citizens that serve our nation abroad, deserve the same rights provided to those that serve at home; and those privileges should extend to their children. The fact that McCain also served this nation in Vietnam and survived as a POW, for me, gives him the right to try and become President. Senator Obama has shown support for this bill, and it proves to me that he is a fair-minded public servant, that understands when something needs to be fixed. Whether you support either of these gentlemen, or Senator Clinton; it should be an interesting year in politics.

"I wonder if Obama's helping out McCain with this problem, to cover his being born in Hawaii..."

jplungis, covering his own butt has nothing to do with why Obama is supporting the legislation (Hawaii being a US state and all). Obama is simply a strong, moral leader who makes decisions based on what he thinks is right. Thanks for the laugh, though.

Please give JakeD a break, it is difficult to type with a white robe constantly getting in the way.

The only proper way to solve the problem is a Constitutional amendment. The simplest way would be to strike John Jay's "natural born" language from Article II Section 1 Clause 5.

Of course that is the proposed Hatch Amendment already, which would open it up for Ahhhnold to run as well. No thanks!

empty.bin:

Normally I would agree with you about ";)" denoting sarcasm. But if you frequent this board, you'll know that unless Jake deals only in sarcasm, and is incapable of a sincere comment, he's probably not being facetious.

p_mcarthy - yes, any children of military personnel born on a military base would then be given the legal right to run for President. Even if the mother was not a US citizen, so be it. It's up to us, the citizens of the country, to vet candidates before they take office. And guess what? We already have a president whom we vetted and has led us astray from what we the country could be. It has happened many times in our history. Not every president will be Abe Lincoln, George Washington, or Thomas Jefferson. So deal.

HR 1940 would not solve this problem either. All it does is attempt to clarify who falls under U.S. jurisdiction in the legal sense (the geographical sense is in 8 USC 1101(a)(38)). The problem with McCain is not jurisdictional. It's natural born vs. naturalized by legislative declaration.

Re: JakeD
The ";)" was supposed to let geniuses know that he was making a sarcastic allusion to McCain's announcer's racially prejudice tirade. You can simmer down now.

Re: one_against_many
My mother has always said, "Do the work of a supervisor if you want the promotion." Anyone who puts their lives on the line for this country, or more importantly, behaves the way a citizen of this country should, deserves the promotion. There are "natural-born" citizens here who would sacrifice NOTHING for this nation if it meant their own inconvenience.

chrisduckworth and tsi53 -

The article in NY Times points to this phrase in the Constitution:

"No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

The term of "natural born" has never been contested in federal court, and the Supreme Court has never heard any case regarding arguments clarifying this term. It has come to the understanding over the years that this means being born within the boundaries of the United States. And because the Constitution can be interpreted in many different ways by our judicial system, it is better to preempt any negative decisions by passing a law that clarifies something that can be construed in multiple ways.

This is also the reason why conservatives want a federal law governing marriage. Marriage, however, is not defined in the Constitution, and its legality between two people, regardless of straight or homosexual, has been left to the states and localities.

Its legal importance was also clarified in various news articles - the founders did not want a foreign-born and naturalized citizen to have the opportunity to become president.

So in conclusion, creating a federal law and passing it now will help make sure that there aren't legal wranglings prior to or after the November elections, clarify the position of the legislature and the interpretation of the Constitution, and be a good PR piece for Obama. Also note that regardless of whether it's passed and signed, it can still be contested and the Supreme Court still can overturn the law as unconstitutional.

re: jplungis comment about Obama being born in Hawaii -- sorry, no cigar.

Barack Obama was born in Hawaii in 1961. Hawaii became a state in 1959. So Obama is not even in the category of Barry Goldwater, who was born in Arizona when it was still a territory. Obama doesn't need the bill.

Oh yeah, some other things. Congress cannot change definitions of words in the Constitution by statute. They also cannot make it ex post facto. Declaring one's citizenship by legislation is naturalization anyway, so McCaskill's bill would merge natural born citizens into the legislated realm, which is in direct prima facie contravention to the 14th Amendment and therefore unconsitiutional in the first place.

McCaskill and Obama need to go brush up on jus soli, jus sanguinis, and lex soli.

First, I was under the impression that US Military Bases are already considered US Territory as far as Laws are concerned.

Second, the Bill that needs promotion and acting upon, is already gathering dust on Ninny Peloser's Desk; HR:1940-Birthright Citizenship Act.

This Bill needs immediate Action, and needs to be made RETRO-ACTIVE to ALL Children wrongly given Citizenship, to Parents(Either) who are STILL NOT US Citizens, or Pending(And then, if disqualified)! ;~)

THERE IS A PROBLEM.

If this bill passes, it would mean that any GI baby born overseas could become President -- some prostitute's kid in Iraq or somewhere, who doesn't speak English, but claims American citizenship before his 18th birthday. Already those people can just move here and be Americans without even being naturalized. This throws the presidency open to just about anyone who can come up with some proof that his father was some American soldier. The kid could be a member of Al Qaida, but then he takes the father's name of Smith, and Ali the Bomber becomes Ollie Smith, the next president of the United States.

Hawaii is a state. I would like to know how many republican would sign on to a bill if it was a democrat 1 or 2. Obama is a true leader first in 50 years.

jplungis:

Why would Obama need to hide the fact that he was born in Hawaii? Hawaii is a state, and already was when Obama was born.

Perhaps JakeD would like Mr. Obama better if his middle name was James as in Timothy "JAMES" McVeigh

Nice, except for two huge problems:

1) "natural born" is not defined anywhere in the United State Code. Therefore they're including a definition to something that does not exist.
2) Congress has no constitutional authority to define what "natural born" is. They can define uniform rules for naturalization, but they can't define natural born since that power is restricted from them by the Ninth Amendment.

And if McCain already is a natural born citizen anyway as he claims, then this is a moot point.

But he's not a natural born citizen.
Go check out http://muddythoughts.blogspot.com/2008/02/panmanchurian-candidate-mccain.html to see why. Obivously the Mudslinger has it spot-on, else this whole situtation would not be going on.

Oh yeah, one other thing. McCain hired Ted Olson to research the issue for him. Why would McCain not know his own legal status in the first place?, and why would he not just release his birth certificate, unless he is not natural born and he knows it?

JakeD:
"Very politically astute of Barack HUSSEIN Obama ; )"

Guys, I kind of think JakeD was being sarcastic. Note the otherwise positive nature of the comment and ";)" symbol at the end.

Im guessing JakeD is referencing Bill Cunningham and is probably kidding-- considering the winking smiley...Bill Cunningham is a conservative talk radio ignoramus in Cincinnati.

" wonder if Obama's helping out McCain with this problem, to cover his being born in Hawaii...

Posted by: jplungis | February 29, 2008 01:39 PM"

I now know that America has some of THE DUMBEST people on this earth! Hawaii IS American soil; it got that right when it became our 50th state on August 21, 1959! Since Barack was born on August 4, 1961, I would say he is safely an American, born on American soil.

Since when did Congress need to pass a law granting a right previously bestowed by the Constitution? McCain is a natural born citizen. End of story. Democrats would prove a new definition of "brain dead" to even begin to make this an issue.

Of perhaps greater import for the sponsors of such a bill --

Doesn't a law like this go beyond the powers granted to Congress in the Constitution? How can Congress have the temerity to redefine (or even define) the meaning of words in the Constitution? The act of defining words by a Congessional bill such as this would, in effect, cede a strict(or even lax) construction of the Constitution from the Judiciary to the Congress -- who could then play with the meaning and purpose for its owon political ends.

But perhaps that is the intent of introducing this bill.

And Barack Obama is a supporter?

Hmmmmm.

I suspect that Hillary will now be forced to support the bill herself out of political expediency. But do you think that if she thought she could do otherwise without it backfiring on her (and if she really expected to be the candidate facing McCain in a tough general election campaign that she wouldn't try to use the situation to her benefit and be "annointed" President? Before you answer, remember that she has already gone to court once (Nevada) in an effort to be "granted" a victory and now she is threatening to try it again in Texas. Senator Obama is already showing us the kind of change we could expect under his administration. Fighting to do what is "right" and not worrying about whether it is what's best for his own personal or political future.

That's CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN!

The citizenship of foreign-born Americans is not under question. Instead, this legislation is designed to clarify the meaning of "natural born." Some readers of the Constitution think that means only those U.S. citizens born on U.S. shores.

Buh? So now ex post facto law is OK too?
What kind of drivel is this? Does the rule of law mean nothing anymore?

The significance of Barack co-sponsoring this bill is that it gives us all a glimpse of the type of leader he is and will be as President. He didn't have to act on this at all. The loop hole was pointed out by the New York Times. A lesser candidate (Hillary) would have simply done nothing and hoped that the revalation would hurt McCain and the Republican party's bid for the White House. Barack, on the other hand, saw the injustice in the loop hole, understood that it would directly help McCain, and still sprang into action. Barack Obama makes decisions based on what is right and wrong versus what is politically beneficial for himself or his party. When Barack speaks about crossing party lines and changing the way government is run in Washington, he's right on. This is the type of wisdom that we have to look forward to for 8 years beginning in 2009!

Regarding the use of Barack's middle name, the question of whether or not Barack is Muslim is absolutely irrelevant. He has said that he is not a Muslim, but the US constitution does not require that the President of the United States of America be a Christian. In fact, the US constitution clearly separates church & state. If Barack was a Muslim, discounting him based on that fact amounts to discrimination on the basis of religion. Lets not forget that the US is a free country. People are free to practice whatever religions they wish, so long as they do not endanger public health and/or safety. The fact that Barack Obama has stated that he is a proud Christian renders this argument mute anyway...

If a baby in the U.S. is delivered by c-section, is he or she considered to be natural-born citizen?

John "Blew a VC" McCain.......JakeD

My doctor's name is Mohammad Hussein. He's really good. :)

I think this legislation is a good start, and it's a good way for Obama to extend the olive branch to McCain.

I think the most important determination of citizenship should not be where a person is born (i.e. an embassy or a military base in a foreign country), but the status of his or her parents at the time of birth. In other words, all military personel should be considered "natural born" and all diplomats should be considered "natural born" as well so long as they are in the service of the US government.

I do not think, however, that children of illegal aliens should be granted citizenship nor should they be considered "natural born" unless their parents are legally and lawfully citizens of the United States.

JakeD........jerk-off

I wonder if Obama's helping out McCain with this problem, to cover his being born in Hawaii...

I try to forgive JakeD's ignorance. He works hard to get out the first negative post on any Obama press. The cool thing is he doesn't provide intelligent, non-judgemental observations, so I am hopeful that most any smart person will see through his shallow snipes. Maybe he is hired by an opponent that thinks American's can't think - ?

It is interesting that the military/embassy birth issue wasn't clearly specified before, and sad that someone might dredge up a loophole like this to try keep a candidate out of the running. Good for McCaskill and whoever supports to bill to keep the system fair.

'Hussein' might actually be quite cool now Jake. Ironic, huh?!

JakeD:
As a former Clinton supporter, I feel your pain. To see the Hilly and Billy canidacy come to an end in 4 more days must be terrible for you. Supporters of Obama are nothing if not compassionate for the losers. To help you out with your quota of online comments about Obama for your bosses: HUSSEIN HUSSEIN HUSSEIN HUSSEIN HUSSEIN HUSSEIN HUSSEIN HUSSEIN HUSSEIN HUSSEIN

Embassies are considered to be the territory of their home country. If Mr. Van Hollen was born within the bounds of the US embassy, he was born on US soil.

However, if he were born in the local hospital, he'd be in the same situation as Mr. McCain.

I'd think people in this situation should also be covered by the proposed law.

Another point (please excuse me if I'm misinterpreting) about the proposed law is the lack of inclusion of National Guard forces. Are they covered under "active duty" and/or "reserve"?

Good bill, but it doesn't go far enough.

Why do we distinguish between two classes of citizens: citizens born on American soil vs. citizens who are naturalized, granting the former the right to serve in the highest office and denying it to the latter?

A citizen is a citizen, regardless of where she was born.

I don't understand the need for such a bill. When I was in the military I was always told that any military base or American Embassy was considered American soil. I guess McCain was born in a Panamanian hospital. Weird.

I wonder if John "Panama Jack" McCain will attempt to convince Latinos he's one of them..... ;-)

Whoa!
Obama's middle name is Hussein? Geeze, thanks for the info. I won't support him now. Bummer... if his middle name had been something like "Ted" or "John" that would be different.
Thanks for the heads up "JakeD"... ya nimrod.

I wonder if Congress will amend McCaskill's bill to include children of diplomats (Foreign Service). For example, Congressman Van Hollen was born in Pakistan while his father was working in the embassy there. Not that I'm suggesting a future presidential candidacy for Van Hollen... just that it's a reality that ought to be addressed at the same time they address McCain's circumstances.

JakeD YOURE AN IDIOT!!! HAVE YOU NO FRIENDS OTHER THAN WHITE MEN. ARE YOU A MEMBER OF A RACIST SECT? WHY IS THIS A FUNNY MATTER. DID YOUR PARENTS NOT TEACH YOU TOLERANCE?

WAIT UNTIL YOU ARE SICK AND NEED MEDICAL ATTENTION: NEWS FLASH

MOST MEDICAL PERSONNEL ARE NOT WHITE.

YOU ARE GOING TO BE SO LONELY IN YOUR IDIOTIC IDEAS. HUSSEIN WILL BE YOUR DOCTOR'S FIRST NAME IN A FEW YEARS.

GET USED TO IT. AMERICA IS NOT YOURS!!!

Wow. I'm sure this legislation will be very controversial! (I'm kidding.)

Very politically astute of Barack HUSSEIN Obama ; )