The Trail: A Daily Diary of Campaign 2008

Solution: Seat the pledged delegates from Michigan and Florida but strip the superdelegates as punishment for the mess. Voters will feel respected, while the actual dynamics of the delegate race will not be changed that significantly.

Dems are trying to blame Repubs for this fiasco when in fact a Dem. in Fla. (Jeremy Ring) co-sponsored the primary move forward in a "boycott" of the DNC and a Dem. (Gov. Jennifer Granholm) signed the state bill into law. Voters in both states put these people in power and that is according to their representative vote.

If they want do-overs, I say impeach those responsible before another dime of taxpayer money is spent. It's not the DNC's fault; it's not the candidates' fault. It's, like all politics, quite local and very much the American way.

Truth is, the only eople "disenfranchised" in the whole mess are the Independent voters in Florida. Michigan is an open primary and Indies in FL were the only ones who never had a shot at a voice in either party's primary. The others voted their vote and agreed to abide by their party leaders. End of discussion (for me anyway).

Sure, there is self-interest involved, but that does not mean that there are also some very real problems with punishing voters for the mistakes of politicians. I only hope the Democratic party finds a way to live up to the ideals of its name while staying within the rules.

Cavalierly dismissing millions of voters and staying silent are acts of fear and opportunism. Fighting for those voters to be heard is the principled thing to do. But for some, I suppose blind adherence to rules is good, too.

From your fingers, to God's ear, alance ; )

The Democratic party is looking at short term expediency instead of long term damage.

Perhaps their obsession with the rules trumps their desire to win this election in November. They somehow ignore how close the last 2 presidential elections were.

Obama's advisers think they have the election in the bag.

Assuming the election is close, a few disgruntled voters in Michigan and Florida could well determine the outcome. Then their arrogance "will come home to roost."

I think you are right, FredFlintstone1111.

If the DNC doesn't want our votes to count maybe we should just vote for McCain. LET MICHIGAN'S VOTES COUNT, OR I'M VOTING FOR MCCAIN!!!

DanyMillan - your point was so good i'm going to add it to my earlier comment (diff mich article)

Those people that bought into the "it's Obama's fault" thing really blow my mind.

#1 it's the STATE's and SUPERDELEGATE's fault this all went down.

#2 EVERY OTHER nomineed BUT Hillary publicly opposed the DNC's decision to strip their right to vote by removing themselves from the balot.

#3 HRC only decided to care when there was NO OTHER way to possibly win the popular vote.

#4 (Thanks DanyMillan) If HRC is so concerned about voting rights, if she reallly believes that one person, one vote... then she should promise that if by the end of the last primary ends, and she has neither the pledged delegates, nor the popular vote leads, then she would resign to keep trying to get the nomination by a technicality in the rules!

She doesn't care about Michigan, Florida, or any other state. She only cares about herself, her own glory, and her own legacy. Truly, she makes me sick to my stomach.

Another fave point of mine is that the last time someone won an election without winning the popular vote was GW Bush... And we all know where that got us. Why relive this via GW Clinton??

Obama's response has been as simple as I'll let them decide their own fate and this is perceived as Obama "digging his heels in" just because Hillary said so???

For all you HRC supporters that go on and on about how we Obama supporters are blindly strayed by words, consider the evidence supporting HRC's own.

It doesn't exist.

aesova / Michael in Michigan:

I appreciate the predictment, but it is not fair to simply "give" Obama every vote that could have been cast for Edwards, or some other Democratic candidate besides Clinton. If there's no re-vote, then only Hillary Clinton deserves the votes that were actually cast for her.

It just occurs to me when I read the arguement how these primaries are not fair to Obama, and not seating the delegates is not fair to Senator Clinton...

these to candidates are public servants and the solution needs to be fair to the people first and then to the candidates.

How about allowing citizens of those states, WHO HAVE NOT YET VOTED, a window of time to file to submit their vote in Florida and Michigan if they did not have a chance to vote.

People have a right to vote here or this country is no different than any other on the planet.

Repubs have a responsibility here, as does the DNC, WHO SHOULD NOT HAVE THE POWER TO TAKE AWAY THESE CITIZEN'S RIGHTS.

Sure the candidates are competitive and want what is best to get themselves nominated; but we have to ask ourselves, since it's clear why Hillary defends these rights...How can Obama support injustice?

People have a right to vote here or this country is no different than any other on the planet.

Repubs have a responsibility here, as does the DNC, WHO SHOULD NOT HAVE THE POWER TO TAKE AWAY THESE CITIZEN'S RIGHTS.

Sure the candidates are competitive and want what is best to get themselves nominated; but we have to ask ourselves, since it's clear why Hillary defends these rights...How can Obama support injustice?

There is no way that Clinton can claim with a straight face that those votes should count when Obama's name wasn't on the ballot. He played by the rules (as she said she would) and has every right to insist any revote be above board and absolutely fair. The Michigan dem party is reaping what it sowed. I, along with many friends have written, emailed and faxed the DNC, letting them know that we will re-register as independents if the original votes in Michigan are counted. And the DNC will never get another dime of my money or minute of my time.

I used to have so much respect and admiration for the Clintons. Now I'm just disgusted. Their legacy has been completely ruined for me.

It is sad to see that Senator Clinton's opinion of my state has shifted from "It's clear, this election they're having is not going to count for anything," to something of great significance to her campaign. It shows that she's only willing to "fight" for our struggling state when it is to our benefit.

How disingenuous of her, now that the delegates of Michigan and Florida are of such great importance to the survival of her campaign, to claim that she wants to ensure that the votes of Michigan can be heard. Where was she when the DNC elected not to seat Michigan's delegates? And if the voices of our struggling state are so important now, why did she agree not to campaign in our state? Why didn't she fight for us then, when the DNC invalidated our voices?

As I see the state I've lived in almost my entire life struggling like never before, I am deeply offended by Senator Clinton's willingness to use as as yet another stick to jab at her opponent.

I did not vote in the Michigan Democratic primary this year, for the first time in my life, because my preferred candidate was not on the ballot. Unlike some, the thought of crossing over and voting for a Republican, even in a primary, was not something I could do in good conscience. So I, and dozens of other Democrats friends and aquaintances, did not vote on the day. If a second primary were held in the coming months, I will most certainly cast my vote for Barack Obama, and I know many others who will do the same. That said, I still do not believe that a second primary is good for Michigan or for the country.

Michigan cannot afford another primary election, nor can we trust that one paid for by private money will not be fair. There is also the very significant issue of how to handle the votes of those Democrats who voted in the Republican primary only because the Democratic primary was invalid.

Democrats can't afford to let issues like these tear the Democratic party apart. Doing so will only hand the election to Senator McCain, and the darkness of the Bush years will continue to hover over America.

So what to do?

The solution is simple - split the delegate count according to the election results, consistent with the DNC rules. Sen. Clintons 55% of the 128 delegates would work out to about 71. Obama would receive the remaining delegates as the only other remaining Democrat in the campaign, receiving about 57 delegates.

As I see it, this is the only fair way to handle this unfortunate situation so that the country - and the great state of Michigan - can move forward toward electing a Democrat as the next President of the United States.

- Michael in Michigan

IT IS NOT A VOTING RIGHT ISSUE, BUT A TENTATIVE OF HILLARY TO OBTAIN A FLAWED ADVANTAGE.
OBAMA'S CAMPAIGN WOULd ACCEPT MORONS IF THEY ACCEPT THE PROPOSED RE-VOTE, BECAUSE OF these E I G H T ( 8 ) R E A S O N S :

1) A lot of Obama Democrats, as Obama was not on the ballot (possibly hundred of thousans), have voted JANUARY at the republican polls (in ADDITION of the ones which repudiated Hillary by voting
"abstention" together with Edwards and Richardson supporters)
NOW, BY THE PROPOSED NEW RULES, THEY ARE BARRED FROM VOTING !!!)

2) that many STUDENTS, which are massively OBAMA supporters, will not be able to vote in June due to vacation absence, neither vote by surrogates, AS MICHIGAN LAW DOES NOT ALLOW THIS FOR 1st TIME VOTERS

3) that a re-vote would DISTRACT Obama,
as the probable nominate, from his confrontation with McCain, and that the delay implied by said re-vote would provide an EXCUSE FOR HILLARY NOT TO CONCEDE AFTER PENNSYLVANIA, WHERE EVEN IF WINNING BY A LARGE MARGIN SHE WOULD ONLY DISCOUNT AN UNIMPORTANT NO. OF DELEGATES

4) that the penalty of no voting HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH VOTER DISFRANCHISEMENT,
THE SAME AS THE NON ELECTED SUPERDELEGATES RIGHTS TO SUPERSEDE VOTERS WILL, SO DEAR TO HILLARY, both being an inter-Party issue.

5) that precisely HILLARY is mounting all this show to gain more time to LOBBY THE SUPERDELEGATES.

6) More than in PENNSYLVANIA, the polls show that even if she win in MICHIGAN the revote with the help of above tricks, she would get a IRRELEVANT delegate advantage.

7) and for the case to fail to obtain the
re-vote, to POSAUN AGAINST REALITY THAT THE RE-VOTE FAILURE WAS DUE TO OBAMA

8) That even if Obama agrees with a re-vote, the RESULTS COULD BE CHALLENGED IN COURT by any citizen.

I must assume that the often not so clever OBAMA advisers will be able to convey these facts to the public !!

Caminito

People who live in Florida or Michigan should only count as 3/5 a person. They are obviously insensitive for not voting for Obama.

DNC set the rules last year. As HRC said last October, these primaries do not count. Now, as HRC is in trouble because she cannot win the nomination fair and square, she wants to change the rules. "Play by the rules" is only for others but not for Clintons. What a shell game these Clintons are playing for the media!

This is vintage Clinton. Change your position after the fact. Where were these "voters' rights" BEFORE the MI primary. Why didn't she speak up instead of accepting the fact that they weren't going to count. Anyone remember her comments?

NHPR's Laura Knoy: "So, if you value the DNC calendar, why not just pull out of Michigan? Why not just say, Hey Michigan, I'm off the ballot?"

Hillary Clinton: "Well, you know, It's clear, this election they're having is not going to count for anything"

http://www.nhpr.org/node/13858

She probably never thought MI and FL would matter. She thought she'd waltz into this nomination. But by leaving her name on the ballot, Senator Clinton hedged her bet. And now she gets to change her story and cry for voter's rights.

Obama wants transparency from Clinton. Well, this is about as transparent as it gets.

hrc at it again ,say anything do anything because that's her mentality and 90's lack of ethics. Sign a pledge with voters not to campaign early ,tell the party leaders I'm with you , and then stab everyone in the back!!!

Sounds like a whole lotta cryin' goin' on by Hillary!

Her national campaign chair, Terry McAluffie negotiated and signed off on the rules regarding Florida and Michigan (thinking it would benefit Hillary). Now that things are no going according to plan, Hillary wants a "do-over" or an end-run around the rules. So much for the inevitable candidate!

No do-overs! Here's the deal: if you want to seat delegates from Florida and Michigan, one-half goes to each candidate. Half a loaf is better than no loaf. Btw, Obama has absolutely no obligation to do any lifting (heavy or otherwise) for Hillary. Let her steal the nomination by her own cunning and guile.

If HRC is so concerned about voting rights, if she reallly believes that one person, one vote... then she should promise that if by the end of the last primary ends, and she has neither the pledged delegates, nor the popular vote leads, then she would resign to keep trying to get the nomination by convincing and twisting arms of 800 superdelegates and ignoring the will of more than 15 millions of voters!!!

As a resident of Michigan I want my vote counted - count the Jan. vote or do a second primary.
Obamaites, chill out. If you want Obama to win the nomination fair and square you would urge him to support the re-vote.
The real reason, as we all know, is Obama is worried that he will lose badly in a re-vote. Right now he can say he wasn't on the ballot. With the Michelle-Rezko-Wright fiasco, he will be lucky if he can hold on to his senate seat.
On the other hand, it might be lovely to see him getting chewed up by the Republican smear machine.

"For Clinton, Michigan Revote a Voting Rights Issue"

You'd think that someone with her experience and judgement would have recognized - back before this decision was made - that such a disaster would result. Someone remind me; was she worried so much about voters' rights, back when the DNC initially sanctioned FL & MI for scheduling their primaries earlier than the rules allowed?

I've been cited on th washingtonpost forum.

I shall go to my class with a sens of pride.

I would also like to add that, quite frankly, although I'm an Obama supporter, this is why I'm not registered to any party. I think that party politics is a weakness of our process. If we were truly concerned with Democracy in the US, we would find a better way to select the executive of our country.

Don't take my word for it, here's a quote from George Washington's farewell address to the nation after his retirement from public office:

"It serves to distract the Public Councils, and enfeeble the Public Administration... agitates the Community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one... against another... it opens the door to foreign influence and corruption...thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another."

http://www.earlyamerica.com/earlyamerica/milestones/farewell/

yes, this is a great idea.... we should continue to tear both of the candidates apart so that we do the GOP's work for them.

Yay! What a lucky party we are, we get to pick between two amazing, qualified candidates!! No wonder its so close!

While I want every voter's voice to be heard, I am not sure that Michigan breaking the rules established by the national party and deciding to vote early, resulting with their votes not counting -- the outcome they knew would occur -- then having their votes counted at the end when it matters the most -- their target goal -- sends a great message. Its sort of like buying a case of beer for a teenager because they missed curfew.

Regardless, I hope that there is a shake-up in Michigan & Florida's state-level leadership so that we can avoid these shenanigans in the future.

I totally agree with hsibomana, s/he really hit the nail on the head.

While it is a shame that this primary will be marred by what will be viewed as an "election scandal," those people who are making the voting rights argument are proving their ignorance of the primary process. The fact is that the process of nominating a presidential candidate from each party is not an exercise in Democracy, it's essentially a preference poll that is given quarter (in the case of a true state primary) by the Democratic process of each state. Look at Texas for crying out loud! The fact that they have BOTH a primary AND a caucus should make people realize that this isn't about "one person, one vote" which the last time I checked was a hallmark of Democracy. Instead, Texas allows everyone "one vote" but gives the politically active "another vote."

My $0.02 to the "voting rights" crowd: Take high school civics again, you might learn something this time.

You know how in a football game there is always some player who continues to run down the field into the end zone long after the whistle was blown. That's Hillary Clinton! She only scored because no one was chasing her. The play was ruled dead. She is silly -- just plain silly -- to make an argument that that election should count.

Hillary is doing whatever and saying whatever to make herself look good. She knew exactly what would happen when she agreed with the Democratic Party that those vote would not be counted. Now she is playing on WORDS.

Wouldn't this compromise be agreeable for both candidates?:

http://ccpsblog.blogspot.com/2008/03/florida-and-michigan-delegations-where.html

Whait a second! This is not a voting right issue! This is an internal affair in a party between the central administration and its federated entity! Clinton is clearly distorting the facts in order to make voters react towards the democratic party as if it should be regulated by a copy-paste of the rules the state should be regulated with.

The democratic party is ... a party!
If its federated enteties want to have a say in the process of selecting its candidate, they have to abide to its rules. The Michigan and florida democratic party didn't. If the voters are angry, they now know why one should get involved in it's party internal life and watch if the leaders of its local brach are good ones. Next time, vote for less funky ones.

Hillary Rodham Clinton is absolutely correct. It IS a voting rights issues.

Obama should be ashamed of himself for attempting to disenfranchise voters.

Ironic, isn't it?

Keep fighting Hillary! That's why we LOVE you.

You'll be a GREAT President!

The Obamarama is OVER.

Obama's failure to completely disassociate himself with his "pastor" "mentor" and "close friend" Jeremiah Wright, an avowed racist, anti-white, anti-American, anti-semitic, pro-Louis Farakaan, black supremecy, Nation of Islam supporter who believes that the U.S. Govt created the AIDS virus to kill black people is a fatal mistake for his candidacy. It's OVER.

Obama is unelectable.

Michigan and Florida votes must be counted.

Maybe the Dims should ask President McCain if it is OK? ;~)