The Trail: A Daily Diary of Campaign 2008

Post North-Carolina Haiku:

-------Obama declared-------
--Democrat contest victor?--
-----This Summer he won-----

We need Safire to explain women's issues? Not in my lifetime. Would the real Barack Obama PLEASE STAND UP, PLEASE STAND UP. "I never heard anything like what Wright said in those snippets of video." You can't be around a preacher who believes in separatism with his whole heart and not absorb those hate-filled and hateful things. This is a politician who wants you to believe that he grew up in the projects. As a matter of fact, thanks to one of many "scholarships," Obama graduated from the richest prep school in Hawaii, Columbia U and Harvard Law, won state senator by default, won US Senator nearly the same way, and spent 18 months in office before deciding on the "audacity" of becoming President with no more experience than that. This is not a pickup basketball game. These circumstances are our lives. Let's get serious and choose someone with the experience to clean up the Bush sewage.

This is a tough one:

Should Obama encourage Hillary's supporters to not give up so that the Democratic party can continue to register new voters?

Should he encourage people to believe that the contest is truly up for grabs so that he can keep his new supporters motivated to vote?

I think it is obvious that our next President will mostly likely be Barrack Obama. He will be the first black president of the Untied States for the following 5 reasons:

1) the Iraq war was wrong, costly, and now unpopular. voters will throw the hawks out.

2) the economy and consumer confidence are hurting. voters will throw the bumbs out.

3) We have enough post-60's voters now where many more voters can see right through race-baiting commercials. By the time of the nomination they will see through the attacks against Obama calling him a Muslim AND a Christian extremist.

4) Huckabee... I mean, Hillary did not pick up the delegates she needed in Texas or Ohio or Pennsylvania (states that vafored her) and even lost delegates in Texas. She lost a long time ago when her advisers led her to diaster on 10 cotests in a row following super tuesday.

5) Obama continues to inspire new ovters and those of us who are tired of 16 years of bushes and clintons. Let's give a candidate who has earned their way up a chance for a change.

From Kyle Anne Shiber part 2- read part 1 first:

"On the other hand, Clinton is a Democrat, and unfortunately, it looks as though they are about to foist her upon the rest of us. William Saffire, in his 1/8/96 NYT editorial, "Blizzard of Lies," cut straight to the chase with a great deal of prescience, when he wrote:

"Americans of all political persuasions are coming to the sad realization that our First Lady (Hillary Rodham Clinton) - a woman of undoubted talents who was a role model for many in her generation - is a congenital liar."
So, let it be said from my all-female mouth now and on the record: If Hillary Clinton is elected as President of the United States, it will set the cause of any sort of feminism back for at least 250 years. Whether we like it or not, she will be the "ruler" by which future female candidates are measured. And she will be judged for the woman she is - not for the man she isn't.

So, just for a moment try to forget Travelgate (cronyism at its vile lowest), Whitewater (phony S&L scheme that cost taxpayers $4 million), campcon (FBI investigation into illegal Chinese government political contributions to Clintons and DNC), Monica-gate (don't even go there), and Pardongate (the final-hour pardons granted by the Clinton "Co-Presidency," including a host of Clinton & Rodham relatives, friends and big contributors). Just forget all about those little "problems" with Hillary's integrity, and think about some of the petty stuff.

Let's take the matter of her faith. You know, the faith that she says sustained her during Monica-gate. Now, I know a lot of Methodists with pretty strong beliefs in Jesus Christ. Yet, I don't believe I've ever heard any of them espousing the benefits of "channeling" the spirits of dead people for guidance. It was Bob Woodward (THE CHOICE) who revealed Hillary's desire to commune with Eleanor Roosevelt in this manner, and that new-age person of note, Jean Houston, facilitated the "conversation." So, when she says that her "faith" got her through "it," is she referring to her faith in God or her faith in Eleanor Roosevelt? Actually, Eleanor Roosevelt would know a thing or two about philandering husbands, but isn't Hillary, devout Methodist that she claims to be, aware that séances are deemed part of the occult (Satan's province) and strictly off-limits for Christians? Seems like a no-brainer to me. So, I'm not too impressed with those "faith" credentials.

Another thing that concerns me - again, this might be construed as petty - is how she has dealt with her husband, Bubba. According to every single book I have read on Mrs. Clinton, she was fully aware of his predilection for rampant promiscuity all the way through their relationship. During courtship. While they were living together out of wedlock. After they married and became the first couple of Arkansas. Through the Presidential elections of 1992 and 1996. Why, according to the volumes that have been written on this one subject alone, there was nary a soul in Arkansas political/business/legal circles that didn't know of the boy Governor's proclivities for "special encounters" with the opposite sex. Of course, Hillary knew; she's no idiot. Obviously, she knew and she didn't care. But she knew that we the public cared about the character - or lack thereof - of our President. So, she lied about not knowing.

And besides the bald-faced lying, here's what rubs me the wrong way. Hillary Clinton's thirst for power has been so great that she has knowingly trampled the feelings and rights of all the women she called "Bimbos," enabled an out-of-control man to escape due punishment, and now dares to play the long-suffering, loving wife with no thought to the real-life consequences borne by all the "other" women that litter the roadside of Bill Clinton's life.

This one issue alone invalidates any claim she ever had to the real Women's vote. Her cadre of elite feminist loyalists can clamor all they wish for solidarity of the "sisterhood," but I don't know a single woman over the age of 18 who is buying it. If Hillary Clinton gave one whit for the respectability of women, she would have trounced Billy boy a long, long, long, long time ago.

And why on earth would an educated electorate buy the simpleminded notion that a woman who cannot even stop a philandering husband from, well, philandering, could ever stop terrorists from, well, terrorizing? Surely, we are too smart to trust this woman with her little manicured finger on the "A-bomb" button.

If not, then we probably deserve what we will get from her. If you have real questions at this point about what that would be, get yourself a copy of Rules for Radicals, by the infamous Saul Alinsky, the left-wing guru of ethical relativity, an avowed means-justify-the-ends Marxist, who was the topic of Hillary's senior thesis at Wellesley. Don't bother trying to get a copy of her paper, though; it's sealed up, though a purported bootleg copy made it onto the web. I have been unable to verify if it is genuine.

I would give just about anything to be able - in good conscience - to vote for a woman for President. Just not this particular woman. She doesn't even know who she is anymore. How could she possibly know who we are? She thinks we are the means to her end. That's all her idea of "sisterhood" has ever been.

It's all about her. And only her"

From Kyle Anne Shiver part 1

"From Kyle Anne Shiver:

"Most especially as a woman, I have become more and more concerned that Hillary Rodham Clinton just might be elected as the first female President of the United States in 2008. And that possibility curls my hair, dangerously accelerates my heartbeat and sends shivers down my spine.

I have been following Hillary's "life" since she first made a blip on the national radar during the 1992 election. Back then, my own perception of her was that she was kind of pert, sort of pretty, and that she might even be slightly smarter than that absolutely charming husband of hers - the candidate. When I learned that she had her own Yale law degree and that they were being billed as the "two-for-one" presidency, I actually thought to myself that it might be a good deal for the taxpayers. Pay one President; get two. I do always try to give a new President - and First Lady - the benefit of the doubt, as due respect for our Republic and the electorate dictates.

But that was 15 years ago. In that time, I've read six biographies of Hillary (4 admittedly unfavorable, 1 gushingly favorable, and 1 supposedly neutral). With such a preponderance of damning evidence against her already widely disseminated, it strikes me as more than a little strange that this woman is not in prison or a mental institution. That she has managed to remain not only free, but center-stage in the Democratic Party and a Senator from an "adopted" state is an indictment of our press and her Party. If she succeeds in lying and manipulating her way into the White House, it will be an indictment of us all.

Even Carl Bernstein admits (A Woman in Charge; Knopf; 2007; p. 554) that Mrs. Clinton is the human equivalent of a chameleon, changing her colors and her story to suit her audience:
"As Hillary has continued to speak from the protective shell of her own making, and packaged herself for the widest possible consumption, she has misrepresented not just facts but often her essential self." (emphasis mine)
In real life - as opposed to fairytales - misrepresenting facts is called "lying." Constantly changing yourself (and your "truth") according to the company you are in is called "a lack of integrity." A lack of integrity is considered by most normal folks to be a glaring character defect. Now, if even Carl Bernstein is able to admit that Hillary is a liar and has a substantial lack of integrity, why would we even elect her POTUS?"

Have we all gone completely insane? Our country is losing loyal soldiers daily in a nightmare civil war in Iraq. Our economy is faltering. Our roads, bridges, and schools are crumbling apart. nearly 50,000,000 Americans do not have health care- and we are totally obsesesed with a black man who preaches on Sunday in south Chicago. It's like he was running for President or something. Personally, I never paid much attention to the sermons when I grew up as a Catholic. I went once a week to mass, and then proceeded to learn my values from my parents, and by observing how other good people conducted themselves. The hate I see spewing here is just incredible. I haven't seen such a display since John Kennedy ran against Tricky Dick Nixon in 1960.

Indeed, Kennedy had to spend many days explaining that he would not conduct the Pope's business.

If the internet and the mass media had been so dominate in those days, Kennedy would never had a chance to win the election. These hate mongers that are spewing their lies and distortions would have been saying: How can you vote for a man that belongs to a Church that conducted the Spanish Inquisition and killed thousands of Jews? How can you vote for a man who knowlingly attended a Church for 40 years that taught that only Catholics could go to heaven, and that unbaptized little children would also not be able to go to heaven either? How can you vote for a man that belonged to a church that practised genocide on native American people? How can you vote for a man that belonged to a church that knew about the holocaust and did nothing?

Guilt by association. I've known some very hateful people in my life. While serving in the military, I heard the most vile and despicable racial rants many times. I did not turn my back on these people, but chose to try to change their hearts and minds by reasoned argument and by setting a good example.

Barack Obama has done the same thing his entire life. He has listened to people of all colors and race, and has tried to bring them together. I think that is what disturbs the haters the most. Divide and conquer.
The Clintons learned that lesson well, but now it is time for change to a new way of thinking and doing politics. Out with the special interest groups that control Washington. Allow a good man, Senator Obama, to bring the grassroots of America back into the place where it belongs. Government for the people, and by the people. Pretty radical concept isn't it?

Hopefully the Clinton smear machine will not be successful this time.

Not this time.

JakeD: Obama defended Kerry and Edwards on the exact same vote because he is a hypocrite, and like his "mentor and spiritual adviser," Rev. Wright said, he will say what he has to say to get elected. By the way, Obama's whole narrative about him opposing the war from the beginning is BS. Yes, he gave a "speech" critical of an invasion of Iraq in 2002; by 2003 that speech was off his website (he said it was "dated"); by 2004 in an interview, he admitted that he didn't know how he would have voted on the Iraq resolution; by 2004 he also said that there was no difference at that stage between his position and that of George Bush on the war; and after elected to the Senate, his voting record on the war was virtually identical to that of Hillary Clinton. So much for continual opposition. Yet another lie from the agent of "change" and "unity" (speaking of which, his entrance in this election process has really unified the party, hasn't it? I'm joking . . . )

Why did Obama DEFEND Kerry and Edwards same exact vote in 2004?

Please scroll up and read the post from Young at Heart at 1:37PM. It is the most articulate and thoughtful post I've read on any blog for weeks. At a time when we are in a senseless war, which Sen. Clinton voted to authorize without first reading the NIE, and our standing in the world has fallen dramatically, we desperately need a diplomat, not someone who will threaten to obliterate an entire country. In case anyone doesn't know, I'm referring to Sen. Clinton's comment. Once again, she has not read the NIE on this matter.

This one is funny:
VIDEO OF OBAMA APPROVING RUMSFELD AND OTHER BUSH APPOINTEES
http://tinyurl.com/528yrl

This one is funny:
VIDEO OF OBAMA APPROVING RUMSFELD AND OTHER BUSH APPOINTEES
http://tinyurl.com/528yrl

OBAMA HAS NEVER REPRESENTED "CHANGE" IN POLITICS. IF YOU DARE, SEE HOW OBAMA OBTAINED HIS FIRST ELECTIVE OFFICE: Chicago Sun-Times--A close examination of Obama's first campaign clouds the image he has cultivated throughout his political career: Obama, who runs on a message of giving a voice to the voiceless, first entered public office not by leveling the playing field, but by clearing it. Alice Palmer, friend and mentor to Obama, served the district in the Illinois Senate for much of the 1990s. Decades earlier, she was a community organizer in the area when Obama was growing up in Hawaii. She risked her safe seat to run for Congress and touted Obama as a suitable successor. But when Palmer lost the congressional race, her supporters asked Obama to fold his campaign so she could easily retain her state Senate seat. Obama not only refused to step aside for the woman who was his friend and had recommended him for the seat, he filed challenges that nullified Palmer's hastily gathered nominating petitions, forcing her to withdraw. Had Palmer survived the petition challenge, Obama would have faced the daunting task of taking on an incumbent senator. "He wondered if we should knock everybody off the ballot. How would that look?" said Ronald Davis, the paid Obama campaign consultant whom Obama referred to as his "guru of petitions." Davis filed objections to all four of Obama's Democratic rivals at the candidate's behest. All other candidates were disposed of by Obama's challenges. He then went on to win the election.

http://tinyurl.com/2zwwte

OBAMA REQUESTS $1,000,000 EARMARK FOR HOSPITAL WHERE WIFE MICHELE OBAMA IS ADMINISTRATOR; MICHELE OBAMA'S SALARY IS ALMOST TRIPLED SHORTLY THEREAFTER
http://tinyurl.com/38tz3q

A VERY GOOD ARTICLE FROM THE PHILADELPHIA INQUIRER ABOUT OBAMA PLAYING THE RACE CARD:
http://tinyurl.com/3cxskw

Obama wants to focus on anything but his own character and judgment. He cannot erase a 20-year relationship with a racist and anti-American pastor who he considered to be his "mentor and spiritual adviser," by merely making a public denunciation required by his falling poll numbers. This transparent gesture won't fool anyone but his most ardent supporters. The press has really let us down regarding Obama by not vetting him sooner. Perhaps they will make up for it by investigating the nature of Obama's religion; black liberation theology. Why? Because anyone who would subscribe to such a racist theology for 20 years, is not fit to be President of the United States. Rev. Wright cites James Cone as his theological mentor regarding the theology Obama has been soaking up for the last 20 years. Here, in his own words, is James Cone's description of Obama's so-called religion:

"Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community. Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love."

To anyone else like Mulu, the RULES you agreed to abide by in posting here state (in part):

"...you may not post content that is libelous, defamatory, obscene, abusive, that violates a third party's right to privacy, that otherwise violates any applicable local, state, national or international law, or that is otherwise inappropriate. You will indemnify Washingtonpost.Newsweek Interactive Company, its employees, agents, and affiliates from any and all claims and/or damages (including but not limited to reasonable attorneys' fees) resulting from any claim brought by any third party relating to content you have posted. You may not post content that degrades others on the basis of gender, race, class, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sexual preference, disability or other classification. Epithets and other language intended to intimidate or to incite violence will not be tolerated."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/liveonline/delphi/delphirules.htm

Some of you Obamanics sure are quick with the personal (and anonymous) attacks, in violation of RULES governing commentaries and discussions here. For the record, I am not a "racist" or a member of the KKK. If you don't believe me, ask "whatmeregister" or see his / her post, above, at 2:26 PM.

If the sheet fits . . .

Mulu:

Are you implying I belong to the KKK?

Wow! The KKK are having a feast on this post today.

whatmeregister:

EXACTLY!!! New York City and Los Angeles / San Francisco are in BLUE States (until McCain wins them back, if that's what you meant). So, how would Darth Cheney set off those nukes?

DEBATE! DEBATE!! DEBATE!!!

It's time for everyone to face the truth. Barack Obama has no real chance of winning the national election in November at this time. His crushing defeat in Pennsylvania makes that fact crystal clear. His best, and only real chance of winning in November is on a ticket with Hillary Clinton as her VP.

Hillary Clinton seemed almost somber at her Pennsylvania victory speech. As if part of her was hoping Obama could have proved he had some chance of winning against the republican attack machine, and their unlimited money, and resources.

But it is absolutely essential that the democrats take back the Whitehouse in November. America, and the American people are in a very desperate condition now. And the whole World has been doing all that they can to help keep us propped up.

Hillary Clinton say's that the heat, and decisions in the Whitehouse are much tougher than the ones on the campaign trail. But I think Mr. Obama faces a test of whether he has what it takes to be a commander and chief by facing the difficult facts, and the truth before him. And by doing what is best for the American people by dropping out of the race, and offering his whole hearted assistance to Hillary Clinton to help her take back the Whitehouse for the American people, and the World.

Mr. Obama is a great speaker. And I am confident he can explain to the American people the need, and wisdom of such a personal sacrifice for them. It should be clear to everyone by now that Hillary Clinton is fighting her heart out for the American people. She has known for a long time that Mr. Obama can not win this November. You have to remember that the Clinton's have won the Whitehouse twice before. They know what it takes.

If Mr. Obama fails his test of commander and chief we can only hope that Hillary Clinton can continue her heroic fight for the American people. And that she prevails. She will need all the continual support and help we can give her. She may fight like a superhuman. But she is only human.

Sen. Hillary Clinton: "You know, more people have now voted for me than have voted for my opponent. In fact, I now have more votes than anybody has ever had in a primary contest for a nomination. And it's also clear that we've got nine more important contests to go."

Sincerely

Jacksmith... Working Class :-)

Mason:

I think I found where you got confused (at least once). Up above I said "I don't believe that Obama is a secret Musling" but you have to admit (a) "Musling" is a different word than (b) "Muslim" (they are close to each other in the Dictionary, though, so maybe that's what threw you ; )

JakeD,

Dick Cheney's plan won't be much of a help. His only targets the blue states.

For the moment.

Dr. Phil:

Are you still out there (or, are you visiting Brittney Spears again)? If you see this, I would really be interested in what you think would be an "easier" way for the President to nuke American cities? If it helps, imagine Dick Cheney trying to come up with a plan ...

WHEW!!!

JakeD, I checked with Sgt. Slaughter and he said only 'some' of the gasoline comes from Muslim countries. Thank goodness. Sorry for almost giving you a heart attack ;)

Elementary my dear JakeD. . .

Ok jacksmith. I guess we're all idiots then. So are you telling me to vote for Hillary or Bill?

Sherlock Holmes:

Canada and Mexico are MUSLIM countries?! This is worse than I imagined ...

MY FELLOW "BITTER", STUPID, WORKING CLASS PEOPLE :-)

If you think like Barack Obama, that WORKING CLASS PEOPLE are just a bunch of "BITTER"!, STUPID, PEASANTS, Cash COWS!, and CANNON FODDER. :-(

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think Barack Obama with little or no experience would be better than Hillary Clinton with 35 years experience.

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that Obama with no experience can fix an economy on the verge of collapse better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) led the greatest economic expansion, and prosperity in American history.

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that Obama with no experience fighting for universal health care can get it for you better than Hillary Clinton. Who anticipated this current health care crisis back in 1993, and fought a pitched battle against overwhelming odds to get universal health care for all the American people.

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that Obama with no experience can manage, and get us out of two wars better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) went to war only when he was convinced that he absolutely had to. Then completed the mission in record time against a nuclear power. AND DID NOT LOSE THE LIFE OF A SINGLE AMERICAN SOLDIER. NOT ONE!

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that Obama with no experience saving the environment is better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) left office with the greatest amount of environmental cleanup, and protections in American history.

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that Obama with little or no education experience is better than Hillary Clinton. Whose ;-) husband (Bill Clinton) made higher education affordable for every American. And created higher job demand and starting salary's than they had ever been before or since.

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that Obama with no experience will be better than Hillary Clinton who spent 8 years at the right hand of President Bill Clinton. Who is already on record as one of the greatest Presidents in American history.

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think that you can change the way Washington works with pretty speeches from Obama, rather than with the experience, and political expertise of two master politicians ON YOUR SIDE like Hillary and Bill Clinton..

You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you think all those Republicans voting for Obama in the Democratic primaries, and caucuses are doing so because they think he is a stronger Democratic candidate than Hillary Clinton. :-)

Best regards

jacksmith... Working Class :-)

p.s. You Might Be An Idiot! :-)

If you don't know that the huge amounts of money funding the Obama campaign to try and defeat Hillary Clinton is coming in from the insurance, and medical industry, that has been ripping you off, and killing you and your children. And denying you, and your loved ones the life saving medical care you needed. All just so they can make more huge immoral profits for them-selves off of your suffering...

You see, back in 1993 Hillary Clinton had the audacity, and nerve to try and get quality, affordable universal health care for everyone to prevent the suffering and needless deaths of hundreds of thousands of you each year. :-)

Approx. 100,000 of you die each year from medical accidents from a rush to profit by the insurance, and medical industry. Another 120,000 of you die each year from treatable illness that people in other developed countries don't die from. And I could go on, and on...

OBAMA AIDE: "WORKING-CLASS VOTERS NOT KEY FOR DEMOCRATS" :o

DEBATE! DEBATE!! DEBATE!!!...

whatmeregister:

Very funny.

Mason:

I did not call BHO a muslim extremist, so I can hardly call him a muslim extremist AGAIN! Please stop claiming differently (or quote where you think I stated that so I can explain). Neither do I see terrorists in behind every lamppost, nor anthrax in every mailbox.

What I have ASKED QUESTIONS about are (1) whether he is lying about being a Christian and really a Muslim extremist, or alternatively (2) if he's not lying, was he brainwashed as a child to follow this very path to the White House and is nonetheless under the control of Muslim extremists?

For the last time, neither of those two QUESTIONS are the same as saying "I know, for a fact, that Barack Obama is a Muslim extremeist." I really don't know how much simpler I can explain it.

Wow JakeD, you're still at it. Sorry I had to go do some work for a while there. I'm still checking out to see if Obama is a SECRET muslim. However, here's something I did find out, the gasoline in our cars come from a Muslim country. . . . shhhhhhh don't let that out.

Jesus... And now I reread you and you're calling BHO a muslim extremist again? WTF is wrong with you? Do you see terrorists in behind every lamppost? Anthrax in every mailbox? What a sad life. This isn't devil's advocay. This is paranoia.

You're still assuming a lie when there is absolutely no basis for said assumption. That's called paranoia.

Somehow, JakeD, I always have a mental image of you as Angela Lansbury. Go figure.

Again, sorry, but that post at 6:21 PM was mine -- I was referring to the original movie with Frank Sinatra playing my part, of course, not the silly remake with Denzel Washington -- but, now that you know it was my post, feel free to ascribe all sorts of nefarious motives to it.

Well, sorry, but I was think exactly of those innocents aboard the planes and in the WTC on 9/11 -- anyone who would lie to this extent is, by definition, an extremist -- so, we are not talking about "Lots of Muslims" are we (I already told you that I would have no problem with an OPEN Muslim President)?

@ ANON @ 1821

LOL. I love classic movies. I wonder what his trigger word would be.

What's part of his cover story? Islamic law? Raising his daughters Christian? Going to Rev. Wright's church for 20 years? Some cover story. Why not go to something less, I don't know, high profile. Like a quiet Catholic or Episcopal church with a declining base of parishioners.

To the PS: Define innocents. And don't say 9/11. Lots of Muslims thought that was beyond the pale. Only some of the more, eh, vocal ones got up and started dancing. Of course they're the ones that got on TV.

The very definition of innocents has lead to some schisms in the insurgency in Iraq. Iraqi sunnis didn't like that the foreign AQI fighters considered anyone who did anything to build the country up to be a collaborator instead of an innocent, so Iraqi Sunnis turned on AQI.

The alternative argument is that Barack HUSSEIN Obama truly believes he is a Christian, but he was brainwashed as a child to follow this very path to the White House, and at the right moment, a secret keyword will trigger his programming (a la "The Manchurian Candidate").

P.S. technically, also forbidden is the killing of innocents ...

Yoda! LOL!

Just because I am Strong with the Force! ;~)

Come awaaayyy from the Dark Side Libbies!

Corrupt you it will! :-(

Mason:

That's part of his cover story, alright ; )

Agreeing to disagree doesn't change the fact that you're wrong. You can't raise your children to deny Allah's unitary nature and be considered a good Muslim. Even if you are trying to take down the great satan. Lies against Allah are forbidden.

You're forgetting one tiny, itty, bitty thing. He was born here to pretty non-relgions parents, and raised by a pretty non-relgions family. Even his step-father, you know, the one who put him in his madrassa was the Muslim equivalent of a Christmas and Easter Episcopalian. Some journey.

Remember also the orgin of these guidelines. That one was for having robbers wait outside of the west city gate while your caravan goes out the east gate. Muhammad didn't want his follwers damned for lying to people about which way they were going to avoid people with bad intent. He was a merchant before a prohet.

That's OK, any Impostor can remember it for you! ;~)

Mason:

We'll have to agree to disagree then whether Allah would permit Candidate X to lie in order to gain the Oval Office and, once and for all, destroy the Great Satan ...

LW:

Try Google.

Todd:

Perhaps, but deep down (WAY deep down) I feel the conflict, there is good.

Dear RAT-The:

I think it's quite clear that you don't belong to the "let's all come together" crowd. Although, as a member myself, let me invite you to join anytime.

I apologize for saying you regurgitate the opinions of others. I don't know that to be true and I withdraw the comment.

I do think it's clear that you are willing to call your fellow citizens by labels in an attempt to shut them up rather than discussing the concerns of our nation.

Your tactics are disruptive and you should calm down if you want to be taken seriously.

Sincerely, Todd

LOL! I feel like this is Team Wrestling!

Mason, This is NOT a Muslim Country. Any Muslim here, is by definition:"On a Journey/Expedition"

Then, as has been demonstrated by the Taliban and al-Qaida, "They are more or less GUIDELINES, than RULES".

Ever hear the phrase: "All is Fair..."

Rat-
Finally something we agree on.

Registered postings are a good thing. I hate it when I forget my name.

JakeD-
[40:28] And now the whole verse:
"And a believing man of Pharaoh's family, who hid his faith, said: Would ye kill a man because he saith: My Lord is Allah, and hath brought you clear proofs from your Lord ? If he is lying, then his lie is upon him; and if he is truthful, then some of that wherewith he threateneth you will strike you. Lo! Allah guideth not one who is a prodigal, a liar."

The story comes from a retelling of Moses speaking to the pharoh. The man asking the question is a closeted Jew/Muslim who is attempting to convince pharoh to spare Moses's life by saying, "You might want to listen to him or spare him. He claims his lord is allah, and he has brought you proof of that. Yes, he might be lying, but if he is, it is his lie, and Allah does not suffer or guide liars."

[16:106] Whoso disbelieveth in Allah after his belief - save him who is forced thereto and whose heart is still content with the Faith - but whoso findeth ease in disbelief: On them is wrath from Allah. Theirs will be an awful doom.

Right. It says compulsion/forced. That generally means pain of death/torture/etc. It doesn't include voluntarily undergoing conversion to become a Trojan Horse in the US Body Politic.

Try Again.

JakeD - "misunderestimate"?

Dear Pot:

Did I just hear you call yourself black?

Sincerely, Kettle

Todd Gatts-I appreciate your method of discourse. From the opposition, it is very uncommon.

What you will find however, is I do not "Regurgitate" other people's views. I NEVER "Link", and rarely "Quote".

I am my own RAT! :-)

I have PERSONALLY suffered more in the last few years than I would wish on my Worst Enemies-Except maybe Chavez, AhmadineBad, or his Master, Khamenei.

What would help more than anything, would be WaPo going back to registered Postings.

Most of the bad behavior lately has been a result of the Un-Registered and especially Anonymous Postings.

I can assure you however, if you are trying to get ME to go along with the Obasama mantra of "Let's all come together";

Ain't Happening! ;~)

Mason:

When did I say that I was waiting for Rev. Wright to "absolve" Obama of being a Muslim? I said that Rev. Wright is probably the only other person who could PROVE Obama was actually lying about being a Christian. Really, try reading my posts again, and then let me know why you would think those two polar opposites are the same.

Todd:

Do not misunderestimate the POWER of the Dark Side ; )

Dear JakeD:

I'm impressed. I went back through a few of your previous postings, and you are right, you don't use ad hominem attacks.

I do think all this "I'm not sayin', I'm just askin'" is disingenuous, passive agressive, and bad for public discourse.

Your behaviour shows that you are bright and witty. Why not use your powers for good.

Sincerely, Todd

Admittedly, the Devil's Advocate role is not ideally suited for dealing with LIVING candidates ; )

Sorry. "Taqqiyah" doesn't cut it. Firstly, it's more of a Shia tradition. BHO's father, and therefore by you're argument BHO were and are Sunni. According to (http://www.answering-islam.org/Index/T/taqiya.html and http://www.answering-islam.org/Index/L/lying.html ) in sunni tradition lies are permissible:

1st, to save one's life;
2nd, to effect a peace or reconciliation;
3rd, to persuade a woman;
4th, on the occasion of a journey or expedition.

The motivations for the first and third are clear. Life is precious and women are to be used. The reasoning behind the second is also clear: Muhammad was a trader and peace is good for bussines. You might think the fourth would apply if you consider the presidential election a jouney, but remember that that one probably had more to do with throwing bandits and raiders off of your trail than anything.

So that's the four type of permissible lies. Note how there's nothing that says you can live a lie for 20 years, marry as a part of the lie and raise your children in the lie and then say, "Sorry Allah! I did it for you." You espeically can't do it if the types of lies that you have to undertake are lies against Allah (bringing up your children to believe that God is of three parts) or against his prohet(Implied belief that Muhammaed is not a prophet because you're bringing up your children to believe that Jesus is the Son of God and that there are no prophets after him).

You keep saying you're waiting for Rev. Wright to "ablsolve" BHO of being a Muslim? Doesn't marrying him count? Doesn't baptizing his kids count? What would cut it for you.

Dear RAT-The:

Your behavior is somewhat worse than JakeD.

I agree with you that this election is important. You damage your own cause when you scream invectives at us and regurgitate other people's opinions.

Form you own opinions and share them with us -- calmly. I'm adult enough to hear opinions I don't agree with. I think you probably are as well. You should show that side of yourself too.

Sincerely, Todd

JakeD-Maybe Mitt Romney is NOT the only Lawyer repenting his evil ways and seeking atonement! ;~)

I really did not want to bother looking up something I consider "Common Knowledge" just to edify this guy!

Thanks!:-)

Todd:

That's right, you don't know me -- I have never issued any ad hominem against anyone posting here -- that's the distinction. Since I am taking the Devil's Advocate role against Obama, of course you are going to interpret that as a "personal" attack against him. Last I checked, however, he is not posting on WaPo fourms ; )

Dear JakeD:

Obviously I don't know you by anything other than your behavior. I don't say you are a bad person, but I think your behavior in this discussion is rude and, for the most part, thoughtless. You damage free speech when you use it to beat other people up in the name of America. You should be ashamed. You are knowingly damaging this forum. You should stop.

Sincerely, Todd

Todd Gatts-Everyone in this Country is entitled to an Opinion.

Does NOT mean yours is right however.

See, I view this Election as possibly one of the most significant in recent History. One that the Conservatives have got to win, or the US goes from a REPUBLIC, to a Socialist Democracy.

Billary I have to oppose on two principles. One, they have already had their two Terms.
Two, what they DID during their two terms! :-(

World Labor Party/George Soros/Teddy,Lurch,Daschle,Pelosi,Reid/Green Party Supported Barack Hussein Obama, with his Racist Views and Values and enigma Status that unfortunately is getting Vetted(For Him and his Socialist Minions);

Well THEM, I have to FIGHT!

The Job in Question is the Executive Seat. Not some Damned POPULARITY CONTEST!

It is the role of Commander in Chief-Best filled by John McCain. It is also the role of Foreign Relations and Business/Economics-Something Mitt Romney would be Invaluable as a Vice President to handle!

I have my REASONS for my Choice, and I can support My Choices for Reasons.

My Reasons are not: Squawk-Change-Change-Believe me, believe me! Change-Change-Change! Squuawwk! ;~)

Dear Pot:

I believe you just called me black.

Sincerely, Kettle

Also:

"Any one who, after accepting Faith in Allah, utters unbelief, EXCEPT
under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in faith -- but such as
open their breast to unbelief, -- on them is Wrath from Allah, and
theirs will be a dreadful Chastisement [16:106]."

Fine, then look it up yourself: The Quran reveals al-Taqiyya with the following verses:

"A Believer, a man from among the people of Pharaoh, who had CONCEALED
his faith, said: "Will ye slay a man because he says, `My Lord is
Allah'?....[40:28]"

Todd:

Thanks for your ad hominem.

Mason:

I believe what RAT-The is referring to question is the well-known art of "taqqiyah" (lying to infidels). The question, of course, would be if Candidate X is doing so in order to infiltrate the halls of American power? Why is that completely implausible, given that the Prophet HIMSELF applied al-Taqiyya for the first three years of his "prophethood" and concealed his mission from the infidels?

Perhaps you know, that in Arab culture and under Islamic law, if your father is a Muslim, so are you. That the basis of the inquiry. Obama's natural father and step-father (Lolo Soetoro) were Muslim, and he was registered in school as a Muslim (both at the Basuki School and Catholic School in Jakarta). Of course, he now says he is a Christian. As I noted, above, only God knows that for sure. I think it's reasonable to inquire further than just Obama's blanket assertion of being a Christian. Is he lying about that?

It seems he is lying about other facts in his past, consistent with trying to downplay any Muslim connection. For instance, Obama stated in his famous DNC Convention speech: 'My father ... grew up herding goats.' In fact, Obama's father, was a child of privilege, not privation. He was an outstanding student, not a herdsman. Obama's grandfather, Hussein Onyango Obama was a prominent and wealthy farmer. What else is he lying about his past?

JakeD-
Why would you need to use WP for Koranic citations anyway? There's plenty of e-Korans on the web. Just saying...

Dear JakeD and RAT-The:

I hate your behavior. I think you are engaging in political action which is damaging the United States of America. It is my opinion you behave this way because you hate the USA and you want to damage our country from the inside. Your comments gnaw at our good will and collective, "we're all in this together" spirit which makes America the strongest country in the world. I believe you two are behaving in a very un-American way and I think you should stop.

Sincerely, Todd

Not necessarily. I like WP; I it's sources but it's usually pretty good. I think you just haven't got a leg to stand on.

Rat-
Shove it. Pretend compliance? WTF is that? You're making it up, halfwit. Source it or go away.

Mason-Muslims ARE allowed to Pretend compliance!

Granted, it is supposed to be if their lives are threatened, BUT, if you have NOT caught on yet;

With Modern Madrassa's "Well, they are really more GUIDELINES, than Rules"

Savvy? ;~)

Well, first of all (God willing) I'm not sticking a cork in it, but second I am also not going to all that trouble for nothing, when you already ADMITTED it wouldn't concern you anyway (besides, I would be using Wikipedia for lots of the Koran citations, and I know you completely discount everything on Wikipedia as false ; )

I don't understand how you can believe that a man could profess to be a Christian, marry as a Christian, and raise his children as Christians, and yet still be a Muslim when most Islamic legal tradition explicitly prohibits such behavior. Surely any one of those acts included a belief in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirt, which is considered Apostasy in Islam. An apostate is no longer a Muslim.

So again: Put up or Shut up. Produce this evidence that he's a Muslim or stick cork in it.

Eric-What was "Derogatory"?

I am really not trying to Insult anyone, just talk Straight, and be Honest.

Sometimes the Truth Hurts, but the Truth it is. PC and Rats do not go hand in hand! ;~)

Here's that post again:

"... we have no real recourse to actually KNOW -- as whatmeregister just pointed out, I am simply taking the Devil's Advocate role here -- only God knows the truth for sure."

Posted by: JakeD | May 2, 2008 2:44 PM

Let me KNOW what you didn't understand, Mason.

Mason:

I never said that I know" he is not a secret Muslim -- in fact, I said that ONLY GOD KNOWS FOR SURE (short of him admitting it or someone like Rev. Wright proving it). Perhaps you need to re-read the thread, and KNOW exactly what I typed, before we continue?

Jake-
(Reagan Voice) There go go again. (End Reagan Voice)

Which is it? Is he a secret Muslim or isn't he. In one paragraph you say you know he's not then in the next you threaten to document how he is.

Put up or shut up.

I'll go first: He has professed to be Christian. He was married in a chrisitan church. His children were baptized in a chirsitan church. Assuming he was, in fact, a muslim at some point, this would make him an apostate in the eyes of his now former corelgionists. I challange you to find the bit in the Koran or Hadiths where it says you can raise marry as a christian, raise your children as christians, and claim to be a chirsian while remaining a Muslim.

Finally, I would not be concerned even if that fantasical muslim trojan horse of yours actually got into the oval office. Do you know why? We have two co-equal branches that would restrain and moderate any or the executive's more radical tendanceies. Don't forget about that oath that the president swears on January 20th and the oaths every uniformed service member or civil servant upon inuctction: To protect and defend the constitution of the United States. The minute your "hypotheical" Sharia President runs afoul of the primary goal of his office, congress would turn his tail out on the street faster than you could say donner kabab. As for your nuclear holocaust scenario, it couldn't go down like that. Too many people would need to be involved and someone would blow the whistle. Like, say someone who noticed that the missile they were retargeting was going to land next to their grandmother's house.

This site is pathetic. The Rat puts up deragatory statements and no one seems to care.

Whatmeregister-Try to label me whatever you want.

Your opinion of me will have as much bearing in Reality as your "Roots" induced fantasies about all the horrible atrocities you have imagined occurred to people you NEVER KNEW!

In the REAL World of TODAY, Bosses STILL take unfair advantages, Companies Still abuse and destroy Employees and their Lives, and even Politicians play GOD with the People in their Control!

But, as BAD as all that is in the US, Saddam was doing MUCH worse to the Victims in HIS Iraq.

Till Bush, and Supporters like ME, Deposed Saddamn Insane, and gave Iraq BACK to the People of Iraq.

Something "Barry" Hussein OPPOSED! ;~)

RAT-The: "Whatmeregister-I see you conveniently left out my comments about the WHITE Irish folks who were also enslaved-as Indentured servants! :-(

Hear ANY Irish people still crying?"

Actually, it seems that every time someone points out the horrors of slavery, some fool has to try and bring up the Irish to argue how it really wasn't that bad. Except, of course, the Irish came here by choice, not in chains; their wives weren't systematically raped and their children sold off as chattel; and they were still considered human beings and not livestock. Which is why their situation is not germane nor comparable to the monstrous way blacks were dehumanized and abused.

As I said, since you're a racist I would expect such a lame argument from you. I would've thought omitting your idiotic claims of Irish indentured servitude with true brutal slavery was doing you a favor. LOL

Obama is weak, a phony, and a hypocrite {see my first post above). He studied the Koran for two years. His intent therefore is is questionable by many.

Mason-Allow me to interject a comment about Islam.
First, they share the fundamentals of all Abrahamic Faiths.
Second, they acknowledge Jesus-as a Prophet sent to correct the wayward Hebrews.
Third, and this is the bad part, Islam is the Proper way. Mohammad was sent to correct everyone else! There is no exception.

To further the Prophet's Goal, a devout Muslim is ALLOWED to LIE, Commit Offenses if deemed necessary to appear Complacent in a "Hostile"(Infidel) environment, that would be against Islam, and basically anything else deemed required to facilitate the Spread of the true Faith.

The combination of accepted Deceit, and Intolerance, coupled with an Edict of Death for Apostasy, SHOULD concern any Christian, Jew, Hindu or Atheist about any Muslim.

Especially one who abandons his faith to go to a Christian Church of the Nature of the Trinity Church of Wright's!

If I was a Muslim looking for a "comfortable" place to pretend conversion, I would be very hard pressed to find anywhere better!

BUT, Again, MY Biggest "Pelosi" with Barry Obama, is his ACTIONS that HE has ALREADY DONE!

It would not matter if it was a Hispanic giving all to Hispanics(Richardson?), a Chinese giving all to Chinese, or a Martian giving all to Mars.

What Barack's Charitable sensibilities told me, is that he only cares for "Blacks".

I agree, Rafael, but it's spelled "JUDGMENT" : )

OBAMA IS BAD JUDGEMENT!

I like the poster on the podium, "Change we can believe in". It sums up the Obama candidacy in which belief, unsupported by much in the way of accomplishment, is the foundation.

A faith based candidate. It's a beautiful thing.

I don't care if Obama is a secret Muslim or not I am not voting for him anyway you put it! He has bad judgement.

No to Obama in 2008

GO STANFORD!!!

Mason:

I'm NOT saying he's a secret Muslim. The question was "IF he was, would that concern you?" You already said "NO". You seem to think that no secret Muslim seeking the Presidency during a war with terrorists could ever intend to do harm to America. So, what's the point in me arguing that with you anymore?

As I said, however (in case anyone else out there WOULD be concerned), I could easily document every piece of circumstantial evidence to infer that Barack HUSSEIN Obama was, is, and always will be Muslim, but ultimately (unless he admits it or someone like Rev. Wright can prove he is lying) we have no real recourse to actually KNOW -- only God knows the truth for sure.

Pot meet kettle.

You're the one on here saying that he's secretly a muslim when he's not.

Go Cal.

Obamas Cabinett:

Rev. Wright for VP
Henry Ayers for Homeland Security Director
Michell Obama for Race Adviser to Obama
George Soros As the Fed Chairman
Michael Moore for Secretary Of State
Ted Kennedy for Secratary of Justice
Al Franken IRS Director
John Kerry US Ambassador to Vietnam
Keith Olberman WH Press Secretary

Sceary!!! ?

Okalidokalie, figured out what I meant to say...
JakeD-
What I meant to say is that it's not Devils Adovocacy because your propsing is a series of tautologies based on a Bare Assertion Fallacy. You're saying BHO is a Muslim as part of your DAing but it's demonstrably false. If I take as true some of your premises (BHO is a muslim, All muslims want to kill americans), then I might agree with your argument that BHO might, if elected president, kill all or many amerircans. But I reject your premises. BHO is not a muslim as his behavior has demostrated. Not all muslims hate america. Given the abject falsehood of your premises, I wonder why you keep promoting them.

CANT ANYBODY SEE THAT OBAMA CANNOT AND WILL NOT WIN IN NOVEMBER? IT IS NOT HARD RO REALIZE THE GUY HAS TERRIBLE JUDGEMENT! WAKE UP AMERICA WAKE UP!

Whatmeregister-I see you conveniently left out my comments about the WHITE Irish folks who were also enslaved-as Indentured servants! :-(

Hear ANY Irish people still crying?

Then, "Barry's" Daddy was from Kenya.

Just What is Barry supposed to magically understand about the life of Southerners three generations ago?

MUCH Less, Slavery of Six to Seven generations ago?!

And AGAIN, for the very dense;

During the last two Years, Barack Hussein Obama, a Man running for the Presidency of the United States, Donated all of OVER EIGHTY Thousand Dollars, on Charity EXCLUSIVELY for Blacks!

If he wants to be the President of the NAACP-Power to him-He'd fit PERFECTLY with those fellow Racists.

I cannot condone or allow a Racist like Him, to get control of MY Country though!

Perhaps you were looking for this fallacy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Sorry, all, that list was supposed to go on the new thread ...

Oh, bloody hell... Agument from Fallacy wasn't what I wanted.... Gimme a minute...

Ron Brown (1989-1993)
David Wilhelm (1993-1994)
Debra DeLee (1994-1995)
Christopher J. Dodd (1995-1997)
Donald Fowler (1995-1997)
Roy Romer (1997-1999)
Steven Grossman (1997-1999)
Edward G. Rendell (1999-2001)
Joseph Andrew (1999-2001)
Terrence R. McAuliffe (2001-2005)

Clinton Presidency (1993-2001) R.I.P.

Well... It is relgious leaders jobs do delude their flocks. If you don't believe the preacher on the mundane things, how are you going to believe him when he tells you not worry about the dirt nap because you've been a good boy?

JakeD:
You "argument" is futile. Namecallers don't know when they have lost.

It is not useful to take as a premise something that can be clearly refuted or demostrated to be false. It's not devils advocacy. It's argument from fallacy and has no place in political discourse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy

Facts are a stubborn thing. Obama cannot close his 20 year old relationship with Wright because there is so much video evidence against it. On the TV program THE VIEW, Obama declared that Reverend Wright accepted that his view were inappropriate and mischaracterized. That it had offended many people. Then weeks later Wright goes on a national Hate America Press Tour? This was a blatant lie. Or worse, Obama was fooled by Wright which is kind of scary. That a possible next president can be played by a character such as Wright. Check the video evidence yourselves. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6J7yJ9R5p0

Mason:

Again with the "racist" label, and now I'm a "mindless shill" too? Look, it's nothing personal. In fact, it could even be useful!! In common parlance, a devil's advocate is someone who takes a position just for the sake of argument. This process can be used to test the quality of the original argument and identify weaknesses in its structure.

I am actually referring to an even more noble tradition set up within the Catholic Church, whereby both the "Promoter of the Faith" (Latin Promotor Fidei) and the Devil's Advocate (Latin advocatus diaboli) were appointed canon lawyers arguing for (just as some Obamaniacs seem to be doing) and against the canonization of the candidate, respectively.

It was the latter's job to take a skeptical view of the candidate's character, to look for holes in the evidence, to argue that any miracles attributed to the candidate were fraudulent, etc. The Devil's Advocate was opposed by God's Advocate, whose job was to make the argument in favor of canonization.

Sorry if that was all too confusing for you to follow. You can read more about the role here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil's_advocate#Origin

thebestlawyerintheworld:
"The game had been determined already when Obama swept 11 primaries in a row, all by whopping double digits."

Had Obama's baggage been known at that point, the outcome would have been different. His winnings were due to his phoniness, and are nothing to brag about. Actually he should apologize for them.

okay sweet:

Amen.

Amen.

You're a rascist because you keep asking a racially loaded question that has been answered time and time again. It seems your only motive is to act as a racial agent provocateur.

Look. He's. Not. Muslim.

No Muslim would marry in a chirstian church nor baptize his children in one. Refute that. Your devils adovcacy exposes you as mindless shill.

I constantly see Barack HUSSEIN Obama on these posts, and wonder why a person's middle name affects many of you so very deeply. What if it was mohammed? adolf? crow? castro? The name of an individual does not define the quality of his character, nor the capacity of his intellect.

Then again, I realize the cause of all this is the ignorance that makes us afraid, and the fear that blinds us from the truth. A miniature radical sect of the Islamic faith, whose membership is a diversity of peoples across the globe, causes numerous uneducated peoples to equate a Muslim with a terrorist. A history of racial injustice, segregation, and discrimination, seems to be lost from our minds as a growing hatred between whites and blacks has evolved in our era of political correctness because of our lack of societal knowledge.

Brothers, we are all in this together. For those of you who are Christian, remember that Jesus Christ commands us to love God above all things, and to love one another as much as we love ourselves.

I constantly see Barack HUSSEIN Obama on these posts, and wonder why a person's middle name affects many of you so very deeply. What if it was mohammed? adolf? crow? castro? The name of an individual does not define the quality of his character, nor the capacity of his intellect.

Then again, I realize the cause of all this is the ignorance that makes us afraid, and the fear that blinds us from the truth. A miniature radical sect of the Islamic faith, whose membership is a diversity of peoples across the globe, causes numerous uneducated peoples to equate a Muslim with a terrorist. A history of racial injustice, segregation, and discrimination, seems to be lost from our minds as a growing hatred between whites and blacks has evolved in our era of political correctness because of our lack of societal knowledge.

Brothers, we are all in this together. For those of you who are Christian, remember that Jesus Christ commands us to love God above all things, and to love one another as much as we love ourselves.

RAT-the: "THAT is what I said, stop imagining ANYTHING Different!-These Posts are Recorded! ;~) "

Indeed they are...

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/04/04/mccain_apologizes_for_opposing.html

"Blahblahblah-Before there was Jim Crow, there were "CarpetBaggers". After the destruction of the South, the business owners who desperately needed their skilled Workers, were betrayed and abandoned by them. They we then badly victimized by opportunistic Sharks who made them pay in spades.

Decades pass. The Segregated Communities of the Whites and the Blacks went two distinctly different directions. Bitter resentment flowed through the Whites about how they were previously betrayed and what they had to do to recover their Communities.

YEAH. You better believe they never wanted to have to allow the now impoverished and mostly UNNEEDED Blacks BACK! Put yourself in their shoes and ask yourself if you would have!

Posted by: rat-the | April 4, 2008 2:21 PM"

...and...

"whatmeregister-Do you "Own" a Pet? A Horse, Dog or Cat?

Do you senselessly BEAT them?

I'd doubt it! You probably try to care for them as best you can. After all, they are YOURS!

Yes, the business owners went through great efforts to educate and train their investments like a race Horse owner would a Champion Race Horse!

Ever hear about the 40 Acres and a Mule? There were no Blacks left abandoned! There were people who needed their trained Cotton Gin Workers who were! Shop operators who lost their Clerks. And many other Businesses who needed the Blacks that ran off with their 40 Acres waiting in their newly founded Black Communities on their new mule!

Posted by: rat-the | April 4, 2008 5:56 PM"

Yep. How DARE those ingrate blacks leave the men who once owned them? Who once raped their wives and daughters and sold their children off like calves to live in other towns or even other states? They were fed and clothed and treated just as well as the family dog, so what more could they, as human beings, have wanted out of life? I mean, being taught trade skills made up for all that abuse, right? At least in your racist mind.

True, upon rereading your weird responses it seesm you were referring to blacks who segregated themselves into separate communities in the south instead of migrating north. Of course, since the whites were wont to drive free blacks outside the town borders anyway, it wasn't exactly totally by choice, but that too will be lost on you.

Sorry, RAT, but anyone who doesn't see how dehumanizing your viewpoint of black people is can't be anything other than a racist. Or a complete ignoramus. Feel free to pick the latter if it makes you feel better about yourself. :-)

For the record, Carol, Mason, and jr. all labeled me a "racist" simply for asking the questions.

Mason:

I could easily document every piece of evidence to infer that Barack HUSSEIN Obama was, is, and always will be Muslim, but ultimately (unless he admits it or someone like Rev. Wright can prove he is lying) we have no real recourse to actually KNOW -- as whatmeregister just pointed out, I am simply taking the Devil's Advocate role here -- only God knows the truth for sure.

Thing is - he can't even raise a successful arguement on Obama's muslimness because he's building his rhetorical tower on a quicksand of falsehoods. Bad premises lead to a bad argument.

Thanks.

JakeD,

To my knowledge, I've never accused you of being a racist. I do believe you have a bad case of intellectual and moral dishonesty, however. You keep positing the hypothetical "what if" question of Barack Obama being a secret muslim, which forces me to the conclusion that 1) you are too ignorant or stupid to know it's false, or 2) you do know it's false and are deliberately repeating it to smear Obama and turn opinion against him.

Since you are a self-admitted Stanford law grad, I assume choice number one doesn't apply. Which leaves choice number two: that you are indulging in deliberate dishonesty. Since I believe that facts and truth, not dirty tricks, should be the best measure of determining the best candidate for the presidency, your behavior is pretty contemptible in my book. I realize that, as a lawyer, you've been trained to set aside the search for truth in favor of winning your client's case. In a courtroom, that behavior is expected and even admired. But when you apply those tactics outside the courtroom--when you disregard and contort the truth--it's dishonorable.

And it's one of the reasons why I and so many others have so little respect for most lawyers. They think a successful argument is equivalent to a moral victory, which it often is not.

Since you asked.

Whatmeregister-Nice try!

NO, I never implied a friggin thing about the Former Slaves that Migrated North.

MOST did NOT!

They took their Mule and claimed their 40 Acres in BLACK Townships in the South! They SEGREGATED Themselves! They did then, what Reverse Racist Farrakhan, is foolishly calling for AGAIN!

WHY, do you think they were STILL in the South, trying to move BACK into the re-built Non-Black Communities a Generation or Two Later?

Then, All this Texan/Californian/Hawaiian said, was that I could sympathize with the Bitterness the Deep Southerners Displayed!

Then, I pointed out the first REAL Racism I encountered, was BY BLACKS, in Los Angeles-Where Slavery never even existed!

THAT is what I said, stop imagining ANYTHING Different!-These Posts are Recorded! ;~)

I think the Dem Party as a whole has shown just too much deference to the Clintons which helped to creat this situation.

The Clintons themselves are so thick-skinned and power hungry, they will not leave the campaign out of their own volition.

It is time the Party came together now and tell the Clintons to quit.

TO ALL THE CLINTON SUPPORTERS:
Since the media is refusing to reveal/report the Paul vs Clinton fraud case in court right now, we need to create our own movement and flood every blog on CNN and every blogging website on the World Wide Web with information from the case regardless of what the topic is. For those that don't know - Google Paul vs Clinton and hold on to your shirt with what you read!! L.A., California Case #BC304174

For those of you who think this case has been thrown out - is hasn't, or is irrelevant - think again:

"In the landmark civil fraud case against Bill Clinton in Los Angeles, where the former President is charged with defrauding a Hollywood dot com millionaire to help Hillary Clinton obtain more than $1.2 million from him for her 2000 Senate campaign, Los Angeles Superior Court Judge Aurelio Munoz ruled on Friday, April 25, 2008 that Hillary Clinton would not be required to testify in a sworn deposition as a material witness in the case until AFTER the November election!."
"Had Senator Clinton be forced to testify under oath, as a material witness and beneficiary of the fraud that her husband is being sued for before the Democratic Convention, her remote chances for being nominated the party candidate would have been unquestionably destroyed."
"Paul contends his case will expose "the institutional culture of corruption embraced by the Clinton leadership of the Democratic Party," which seeks to attain "unaccountable power for the Clintons at the expense of the rule of law and respect for the constitutional processes of government."
All the court documents/evidence is here: peterfpaul.com

Right. That's why you keep bringing it up. You produce more horse manure than Churchill Downs on race day and you say you don't believe it? Whatever, dude.

The fact of the matter is that a possible win in Indiana by Hillary would have come too late to save her now.

It is just like the win in PA. She won the state as everybody predicted. But did it change the game? No. It only allowed her to narrow the delegate lead by about 20 something. That is too little too late. The game had been determined already when Obama swept 11 primaries in a row, all by whopping double digits.

That was when Hillary lost the nomination. It is only because she is who she is, she has been allowed to carry on this lunacy regardless.

She can go on and win NC and Indiana by 60%, which I doubt very much, and it still won't change the game. It has all been a waste of time, money and energy since those 11 primaries.

I would have no concern, but that doesn't mean I'd like it. I believe that the courts and the anti-establishment clause would be strong enough to deal with any muslim, or chrisitanization of the government. They've proven rather resiliant to this administrations attempts to push the boundarires.

I really do not understand what is all this big fuss about Obama's relation with the pastor.He went to church which demonstrates he is religious.Wright was the pastor.He grew up in different times and some of his sermons were out of touch.But he had a basis for saying what he said.Bible says our sins visit us and then there was Tuskegee experiment where the African Americans were the guinea pigs to study syphilis and it took years for the government to acknowledge and apologize.Obama was not judgemental of his pastor.He was drawn to him because of his community service which is undeniable.He did not condone his controversial which was a samll part of his sermons,but was focussing on the good.Has there been any instance of any of this Church member having acted provocatively in the last 20 yrs or so influenced by the sermons and endangerd the safety of the nation?On the other hand have there been people who have been positively influenced by the sermons?Yes, of course,Barrak being a chief example.Obama rightly distanced himself from those views earlier on in Philadelphia as these reflected only the divison but Obama hoped to move beyond and use those divisions as motivation and not diversion to advance in race relation.Wright knew that Obama did not subscribe to his negative views.He had to denounce his pastor when the venue changed from the church to the world stage.In the church the people who listen to his sermon do not judge him by a few soundbites or some views which they may not agree with but as a person complex as he is.In the world stage on the other hand he unwittingly became part of a grand scheme of events where unfortunately his controversial views were the focus,thanks to the manipulative media which had no questions about his service to the community all these years.While Obama went extra length to explain the pastors contoversial views and accepted them as a reaction to the turbulent times when he grew up,the pator showed gay abandon in questionong Obama's integrity when he distanced himself from those views while stressing to need to move forward.That is when Obama had no choice when his values or what he stood for all these years are questioned.Obama exemplified all those qualities one would expect in a leader:tolerance,acceptance,courage to stand by his values and admonish the pastor even at the expense of a political backlash and demonstrate righteous anger and compassion and the ability to move beyond to focus on issues that matter.He does not pander to get the votes but challenges people to come together to solve problems.It is time we rally behind him and move forward to restore the Nation's status in the world.

P.S. -- I don't believe that Obama is a secret Musling, either ; )

Actually, Dr. Phil, I could care less what you think of me, and my question to you was: "Are you are going to 'help' just like you did with Brittney Spears?"

People against Obama want to forget that he turned down high paid corporate job offers to go and organize workers whose jobs had been sent overseas thanks to Clinton.

I guess ignoring that and that he doesn't accept PAC and lobbyist monies is easier than actually trying to evaluate him on more than Clintonista and FOX spin and rhetoric (which are surprisingly similar these days).

JakeD said: "The "easiest" way for the POTUS to nuke Americans would be to fake (or, for real) a release of biological agent(s) with the "last resort" measure being to sadly announce the nuking in order prevent the spread to all other U.S. cities (that and/or conveniently be out of town when a nuke goes off in the U.S. Capitol building -- but that's more like Tom Clancy than Bruckheimer ; )"

Holy crap dude, you've just lost all credibility with me. This was a good laugh though.

And I have an answer to you question. Would I be concerned if Obama was a secret Muslim? YES. Do I believe that Obama is a secret Musling? NO.

Pennsylvanian:
"But can't he just eat his waffle without the press interfering with annoying questions."

The media made hay with the "Obama phenomenon" to get viewers, better ratings, amd make money. Then the "Wright phenomenon" hit and they did the same. Obama's free ride with the media is over.

whatmeregister:

And, what exactly makes ME a "racist" then?

The question was whether said lying would cause YOU any concern ...

To clarify - the lying about who he is would cause a problem getting elected for candidate X. The constitution wouldn't care.

RAT-The: "Folks, to complain about a Racist, does NOT make ME a Racist."

No, RAT, what makes you a racist is your repeated assertions that blacks after the Civil War were traitors for migrating north instead of helping their former white masters (i.e., the rapists of their wives and daughters, the killers of their family members, their abusers and captors and owners) rebuild the southern infrastructure. You believe that the blacks were somehow "ingrates" for being smart enough to flee those white soulless bastards as soon as they were able. That's what makes you a racist.

But of course, you'll never admit that you're a racist, so why bother arguing it, eh?

The lying would cause a problem for candidate X.

But back in real life, that candiate doesn't exist.

Mason:

Then ANSWER it, if it's not unanswerable.

Dr. Phil:

Well, if this were a Jerry Bruckheimer film, then it would have to include some hot blonde too (instead of Michelle Obama) and probably a massive nuclear launch on Russia, trying to prompt nuclear retailiation. I'm not sure that would work though.

The "easiest" way for the POTUS to nuke Americans would be to fake (or, for real) a release of biological agent(s) with the "last resort" measure being to sadly announce the nuking in order prevent the spread to all other U.S. cities (that and/or conveniently be out of town when a nuke goes off in the U.S. Capitol building -- but that's more like Tom Clancy than Bruckheimer ; )

That's not your unanswerable question, jerkoff. The unanswerable question had to do with Obama's supposed false conversion twenty years ago in order to do something about the current Iraq war. There was just the slight problem that the BHO of 1988 had no way of knowing what the future would hold.

Has Rev. Wright helped any white poor people in his life as a man of God????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Obama is the reason I am bitter and I am claiming my guns and religion because of it! LOL

Folks, to complain about a Racist, does NOT make ME a Racist.

"Barry" is the one who Donates all his Charities to "Blacks" exclusively.

I would have supported the American Red Cross or at least Crescent, and/or The Salvation Army with at least a little money myself!

BUT, since they might help ANYONE, Racist Black Supporting "Barry" did not!

Get the "Libbie" out of your Ears, and Open your Eyes people! I am OFFENDED by Barack's ACTIONS!

Jamie-
I think he always knew about Wright but pretty much always disagreed with some of the crazier statements. He was willing to look past them because of other good deeds the man had done. Even last month, he was saying, "I disagree with him, but I count him as a friend because of his good works." What's changed in the last week is that this "friend" has been slagging him on national TV. Some friend, eh? BHO's payback for not throwing the guy under a bus was getting pushed under himself. With friends like that....

Jaime:

See people that is exactly the point here Obama has terrible judgement and is another politician. Well explained Jaime.

No to Obama in 2008

JakeD and Rat-the,

Why are you two both such senseless cancerous disgrace and frustrations for all good-willed attempts of people to any intelligent excanges of opinions?

JakeD, so you are saying that Obama as President will go to all the missile launch sites, break in, enter the launch codes, and escape so that he can then swim out to all the submarines, break in, enter the launch codes, and then pilot a bunch of bombers to drop their nukes. Wow, good thing you've got Sherlock Holmes and He-man on your side.

I'm outta here because I don't want the guilt by association of having consorted with the likes of JakeD and theRat.

With people like them no wonder this country is going into the toilet.

Neocons and Republicans thugs are spread over this and other boards, radios and T.V.'s and crying high and loud to get nomination of Hillary Clinton, thinking in their dirty minds that once she is on the ticket, they can easily compared their rotten Egg (John McCain) with her in many ways and bring the big face and big nose Clinton in the field who will naturally run the White House either from his bed or from his coach.
The hardcore Whites, who have never supported even white Democrtas in the past, we should not worry about them and let them to cheer for John McCain, whose one leg is in his grave and barely can walk, talk and think straight.
By electing Obama, America can stand up again in the world as the most civilized Nation and take leadership to be an honest, humane and just and fair BIG BROTHER wiping out the sins carried out by the gang of Bush-Cheney and Rumsfeld.

jaime:

Good points.

Anyone else, then who can answer this "unanswerable" question:

If Candidate X was is a SECRET Muslim, trying to hide that fact by PRETENDING to be a Christian for 20 years, in order to get eleted President of the United States during a war in Iraq, would that cause you any concern?

how would you trust obama...
wife says... i have never been proud of america in my entire adult life.
pastor and "uncle for 20 years says... god damn america
friend ayers) says... i never regretted bombing pentagon... wish could have done better.
and obama says... i never heard this incindiary comment for 20 years.
until this week when polls showed that his numbers are all going down.

Mason:

As soon as you answer my question, I will return the same courtesy -- I have put up with answering all of your other questions and your ad hominem long enough -- otherwise, have a nice life.

JakeD-
You didn't ask an answerable question. The question you asked was so full of logical fallacies and contradictions that you could derive anything you want from my answer to it. Ask a better question, loser.

Obamas Cabinett:

Rev. Wright for VP
Henry Ayers for Homeland Security Director
Michell Obama for Race Adviser to Obama
George Soros As the Fed Chairman
Michael Moore for Secretary Of State
Ted Kennedy for Secratary of Justice
Al Franken IRS Director
John Kerry US Ambassador to Vietnam
Keith Olberman WH Press Secretary

Sceary!!! ?

I disagree with the posts to ignore JakeD and Rat as I have obviously called them out.

This kind of bigotry has to be addressed. Yes, they troll this post and spew their brand of hate at all opportunities.

It does make this a less rational and more sad forum.

I have had my say and they have had their. Meaning their silence says it all.

I am done so let the McCain and Clinton flaying continue.

Go Obama!!

JakeD-
Your worst case scenario is that the POTUS nukes 300,000,000 Americans? Seriously? That would be bad, but, fortunately for those of us who don't live inside of a Jerry Bruckheimer film, it's also impossible.

Shoot. You've managed to make 9/11 truthers look sane with that one.

Conflict between democrats is a GOP mission and it is having some success. Many of the most inflamatory remarks being made here are probably being made by Republicans trying to agitate us against each other. Let's do our candidates and our nation proud and change the tone of this debate.

I support Obama because:

-he took a stand against the Iraq war when it mattered.
-he does not support a gas-tax holiday that would raise gas prices, benefit oil companies, and perpetuate our dependence on oil (an economic, environmental, and SECURITY issue.)
-his response to distractions and controversies has showed even temperament, integrtiy, and thoughtfulness.
-he has made ethics a top priority and wants to stop playing destructive political games.
-he has shown that he is resilient and electable in the face of media smears and "swiftboating". The GOP is spending all of their energy trying to take out Obama. KARL ROVE has written an article with skewed stats in an attempt to bolster Clinton's "momentum". it's no wonder that Clinton's polls are looking a bit better, but I must wonder how Hillary "sniper-fire" Clinton will fare against John "war hero" McCain when republicans stop working FOR Senator Clinton.

-I work in a hospital in MA, and health care is important to me. I live in a state where we are proud of our health insurance progress, but where many people who previously could not afford health insurance are now punished and fined instead of being helped.
-His views on foreign policy also show thoughtfulness, a fresh approach which lends itself to diplomacy, and strength. The fact that he has lived abroad and has an inside perspective on multi-culturalism is great considering he will be elected the new leader of the free world.

Again, democrats should debate this one out, but we need to remain united lest we give the world four more years of destructive republican policy.