The Trail: A Daily Diary of Campaign 2008

I was reading this whole string of posts, and somewhere down the way. I saw that someone wrote that Iraq was never the problem. And I really must say I agree with that.

See, the reason why George H.W. Bush (George Bush Sr.) left Saddam Hussein in power in the Gulf War in 1993 was that Saddam COULD STABILIZE THE MIDDLE EAST.

Bush Jr., being the Texan ranger he fancies himself to be, had to go and kick Saddam Hussein for being aggressive towards the US (though Saddam is aggressive towards everybody).

The Fact is, Saddam was the reason why Iran never developed nuclear weapons before. I'm sure they could, with Soviet support, it's just that Saddam and the Iranians don't see eye to eye, and if Saddam ever found out Iran was building nukes, he'd roll his tanks straight into Iran and beat them up. Saddam, in fact, has waged a war on Iran already, and it is quite safe to say, that out of all the countries in that region (except for Israel), Iraq under Saddam Hussein was the most powerful. He was the bully on the block that kept the other potential bullies from getting too powerful.

Now that Saddam is gone, the Iranians are free to build their nukes, and they knew that the US would never attack Iran since they were so busy with terrorists in Afghanistan and insurgents in Iraq.

George Bush Sr. had the wisdom and experience to see Saddam's role in the Middle East and never booted him out of Iraq, though he was criticized by most Democrats for not following through.

George Bush Jr. on the other hand didn't see that and wanted to "finish what his father didn't." He got blamed, not that he doesn't deserve it. But mostly he is blamed by Democrats who, a decade and a half ago, would have done exactly the same thing, if they were in power.

Funny thing is, after reading in depth about Osama Bin Laden and is involvement in terrorist attacks around the world, is that Clinton had the opportunity to kill Bin-Laden around 10 years ago.

So from what I read, Osama and his bodyguards were driving along a road in the Middle East, then, they came to a fork in the road. They chose the left side. It just so happened that Clinton was informed by someone that Osama was going to be along that road. He couldn't decided where to shoot a missile at, so instead of shooting two missiles at both sides of the fork, and having a 100% guarantee hit, he decided to shoot a missile at the right side, and completely missed Osama

You know, I agree the war in Iraq is not justified by Bush's search for WMD's. However, now that US Soldiers are in Iraq, and the newly formed Iraqi government is just starting to get a feel for the democratic process, having the US troops pulled out of Iraq would just bring Iraq into terrorist control.

Iraq has not had a long enough democratic process to withstand the strong Islamic Fundamentalist Influence found in mosques, and homes that are omni-present.

The best hope to letting US soldiers return from Iraq is to let the Iraq government grow strong enough to deal with terrorists on its own. That ways, all the soldiers who have died already in Iraq, wouldn't have wasted their lives for nothing.

How do you think a US Mom with a child lost to the conflict would feel when you tell them that their child died in vain?

On the other hand, I believe the US should keep troops in Afghanistan. Unlike Iraq, it has been proven that there was, and still is, HUGE terrorist influence that country. I think the next president should turn more of its focus to developing Afghanistan's resistance to terrorist influence, rather than Iraq.

WHO IS PAYING FOR THESE AD?

John Debs, in an earlier comment, hit the nail on the head when he questioned the ability of such a short-lived veterans' group to pay for this ad and those to follow.

Maybe some dedicated truth-telling investigative journalist, if there are any, can supply the answer.

A previous poster wrote:
"When Republicans use the words "Patriot" or "Freedom" (as in this groups name) - you know its just another Republican lie."

What's more is that these outfit's funding most likely can be traced back to some Congressional NeoCon fund like the "National Endowment for Democracy" (NED) that funds all kinds of terrorist assh*&^s to desabilize foreign governments that we dont like. These guys are nothing but NeoCon Shills whether they know it or not.

When Republicans use the words "Patriot" or "Freedom" (as in this groups name) - you know its just another Republican lie.

I'm a Vietnam Vet and this is like listening to the same bulls*^%&*t Americans were subjected to by both the Democrats (LBJ's freedom and democracy BS) and the Republicans forty years ago i.e.("light at the end of the tunnel") and the "peace with honor" crap from Nixon and Kissinger. Ten years, two million dead Vietnamese and 60 thousand killed GIs later and the diehards are still claiming we could have won "if only."

I really do hate to pick at an old scab but dont you people in these flag waver organization (like this one "Vets for Freedom") ever learn? Pick up a history book, see how the war in S.E. Asia started and more importantly, read how it ended.
Maybe you will derive some wisdom from studying our past.

What is name of the group implying, the rest of us veterans and opposed to Bush's war, are against freedom? What kind of finances and membership fees do the so-called Vets for Freedom have in being able to spend "$1.5 million on what it calls the first of many spots during the next month" Sounds like a kinder and gentler swiftboating, perhaps compassionate swiftboating.

I for one will be holding, Obama's feet to fire for timetable of troop withdrawl from Iraq.

My first wish is to see this plague of mankind, war, banished from the earth.

-George Washington

These must be the guys doing the torturing for Bush and McCain.

SPDRCR:

If you believe in limited interference by the government in economic affairs you will have to eliminate the fed. In order to do that you will have to come down to earth and start plenty of hard work because that institution is believed to be sacrosanct. You may be surprised to find out that this Obama supporter, if you are successful, will appreciate what you have done. But until that time we will have to deal with the realities of this world and that means that taxes net for the entire population can not fall at this time and the unwinding of debt will continue and the perilous economic world we live in is our reality. The Fed is alive and well so our dollar continues to lose strength.

In that world there is only a choice between Obama and McCain or the choice of choosing to not choose.

I am continually amazed at some of the postings on this site. So many contradictory "facts" from so many unimpeachable sources. "See for yourself @" indeed. Someone printed or published or photographed something and its now a "fact". A little objectivity and some educated research clears the air and provides enough information to determine the truth without slant in either direction. Sorting out opinion and worthless directive dialog from the real essence of the information is critical before presuming to know the truth about a subject. Nothing I see here comes close to the truth from the drivel presented by this rag of a propaganda device and certainly none of the posters links is entirely accurate either. I am just saddened by the ready acceptance of this garbage as supposed quality information by so many folks. Obama is not nearly as beatific or evil as either side would claim and McCain is hardly the doddering fool or stoic statesman portrayed by op-eds and bloggers. A little of truth in all these things makes them human. I do however take issue with liberals as their sites and postings utilize name calling and libelous accusations with utterly nothing intelligent or persuasive to support their position. In fact I can not find a single issue supported by the left wing that can be touted as any kind of real success. None that didn't have far reaching and devastating consequences that take years to develop and cannot easily be undone. Dont direct me to any more links as they are valueless and empirical evidence clearly shows the truth. That being said the right wing shrilly portraying social issues as evil or devastating to society when clearly the personal choices made have little or no effect or importance to anyone not directly involved in them is no better. Those claiming to align themselves as I choose to as a libertarian have so perverted the platform as to put Barr up for ridicule or candidacy have not put much thought into what they supposedly stand for. I believe in limiting economic AND social interference from a National government. I am sensible enough to understand the areas of necessity and dont truly expect government to go away but its size could be sharply reduced by eliminating interference s that each side is attached to. Imagine the value of a dollar when capitalism is free of government influence and social programs are exclusively in private non profit control. American Red Cross receives no money from the government and is wildly successful. It could work for many other things as well. Isn't this why hospitals are aligned with churches? their non profit status is critical to their success. Medicaid and its attendant ills notwithstanding. Look up its effect on healthcare for clear evidence of the failings of government influence on social issues.

My heart is with the troops;

But these guys are just wrong, Bushwar is entirely-bogus, and will remain-so in America's history.

Now that Iraq's "leadership" itself is proposing a timetable for US withdrawal, what on Earth does John McCain imagine thinks supports his plan to occupy Iraq "for 100 years?"

Time to go.

Forgive me for not being real smart about these things! I had and still have many veterans in my family. One boy inparticulary did three tours in Iraq. He fell in love with the people there. He would love to see things inprove for them,and he says some improvements have been made. He also says military is not what will solve Iraqi's problems. The people have the heart. But, the goverment is hardly working after five years of trying. He see's no way out of this war in a winnable situation, that Mccain keeps saying will happen there. It will be only as stable as their goverment, and if we wait around for that, it will be years and years of our loved ones being killed. In the end no one can say the job will ever get done------BUT YOUR LOVED ONES WILL BE DEAD, AND KEEP DIEING THE WHOLE TIME. We left afganastan in a lursh, and that was a winnable war. We know have to face the fact we have lost most progress we made there, because we were to busy in Iraq, and streghed our military to far to keep up the numbers,equipment needed to stay on top in afganastan. I do now a number of vet's, and they want their voice's heard. But only one group/one side is being heard, over hundreds out there who been there already, who says there is no winning the way Mccain claims that they will, or how that win will look like. It's all in Mccains head, like the way he wanted it be in vietnam, and it never happened.

Forgive me for not being real smart about these things! I had and still have many veterans in my family. One boy inparticulary did three tours in Iraq. He fell in love with the people there. He would love to see things inprove for them,and he says some improvements have been made. He also says military is not what will solve Iraqi's problems. The people have the heart. But, the goverment is hardly working after five years of trying. He see's no way out of this war in a winnable situation, that Mccain keeps saying will happen there. It will be only as stable as their goverment, and if we wait around for that, it will be years and years of our loved ones being killed. In the end no one can say the job will ever get done------BUT YOUR LOVED ONES WILL BE DEAD, AND KEEP DIEING THE WHOLE TIME. We left afganastan in a lursh, and that was a winnable war. We know have to face the fact we have lost most progress we made there, because we were to busy in Iraq, and streghed our military to far to keep up the numbers,equipment needed to stay on top in afganastan. I do now a number of vet's, and they want their voice's heard. But only one group/one side is being heard, over hundreds out there who been there already, who says there is no winning the way Mccain claims that they will, or how that win will look like. It's all in Mccains head, like the way he wanted it be in vietnam, and it never happened.

President Jalal Talabani said "an American military presence still was needed."

See What Iraq's President said to America's Next President John McCain...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080628/ap_on_el_pr/mccain_iraq

Obama needs to wake up, he has ZERO EXPERIENCE with Iraq. By the way, what country was the U.S. in war with in the Gulf War? Was that Iraq? The Gulf War ended in 1991 but continued in 2003.

Obama Said Iraq was a "RASH WAR!", "A Mistake", Etc...

Check this link!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/iraq_yellowcake_mission

Did you know this! Here's a multiple choice question for you!

What did Obama do in that first run for political office?

A.) Registered more new voters than any Illinois State Senate candidate

B.) Vowed to never cast a "present" vote if elected

C.) Knocked all of his opponents off the ballot so he could run unopposed

D.) Ran with the slogan: "We did it for Harold, we can do it for Barack!"

(C) Is the correct answer!

Obama challenged the nominating petition signatures of the incumbent, Sen. Alice Palmer, and three other rivals!

Here is the link to back it up!

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0704030881apr04,0,6678847.story

And Don't just tell your friends and family about this! Text or Email it to them! Make them see the Chicago Tribune! Make them see the TRUTH!!!

Here is another fact...

There are 52 Sundays in every year. Obama attended Jeremiah Wright's HATE CHURCH for 20 years... Formula: (52 Sundays x 20 Years = 1,040 Sermons)

GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!

McCain 2008! "Grin and Bare It America! Terrorist Will..."

No, what will surface is the hidden medical reports of Mccains mental condition and past mental illness due to his V.N. experience. John Mccain not being mentally fit for office is the October surprise.

))))))))))))))))
I wonder when Michelle Shaniqua Obama's "whitey" tape will surface. I think the Republicans will release it in October. It would not make sense to release it now. I know the Obama people dimiss it as a hoax but that is what they want you to beleive. Michelle Obama is a race baiter. Did you hear her speech in NC? SHe kept saying throughout her speech that "they are trying to raise the bar", "they keep moving the goal post", "they, they, they" ("They" is code for "Whitey") Everytime she would say these lines you would hear the audience reply, "uh huh", "that's right", "amen", "I heard that" (obviously a black audience).

Posted by: Dianne72 | July 6, 2008 11:27 PM

Martin Luther King, Jr., a man I admire greatly, once said: We are not makers of history. We are made by history. Within this context please consider:
Will Our Children Be Able To Trust What "History" Says About Senator Obama?
Found at:
http://zachjonesishome.wordpress.com/2008/07/06/will-our-children-be-able-to-trust-what-%E2%80%9Chistory%E2%80%9D-says-about-senator-obama/

Have they seen this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afawZWEtCKc

Vets for Freedom....they make it sound as though American veterans opposed to Bush's War are against freedom. What kind of membership dues are these guys charging to spend "$1.5 million on the first of many spots during the next month"?

Michelle Obama is a racist. The woman has a sharp tongue and she will deny it. But in her sick and twisted little mind, she feels that she is superior to folks from any background. How disturbing is that?

Obama ++++++++++++++++++++++Do the vets a favor, get all the troops out of Iraq in 16 months before more get killed and mutilated. Bring our boy(and girls) home.ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!And sane and with all their appendages.

August 13, 2006 at 19:56:13
""Vets for Freedom" Fight for Rove and Lieberman"

by John Stauber

"The Republican lobby group Vets for Freedom is the 2006 equivalent of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, the Republican 527 committee whose attack advertisements in battleground states helped sink John Kerry in the 2004 presidential race by smearing him as a phony war hero and a traitor to his country."

"Vets for Freedom (VFF) made lame claims to be "non-partisan" when in early 2006 it first appeared out of the blue online and in op-ed pieces in the New York Times and other major papers and in TV interviews. An investigation of the group by citizen journalists at SourceWatch and by the Buffalo News blew the VFF claim of non-partisanship out of the water."

"For instance, the Buffalo News revealed in June that former White House flack Taylor Gross, who left Scott McClellan's office in 2005 to start his own PR firm, represented VFF and pitched them to papers as non-partisan journalists who would embed for these newspapers and report accurately and cheaply for them from Iraq. Now the camouflage has fallen completely off. Vets for Freedom has registered itself as a 527 committee and is going to run a full page advertisement in Connecticut's Hartford Courant on behalf of Joe Lieberman's renegade run for re-election to the US Senate as a 'stay the course in Iraq' candidate."

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_john_sta_060813__22vets_for_freedom_22_f.htm

"Vets for Freedom: Opposing John Murtha and Supporting Joe Lieberman"

"In its August 11, 2006, edition, the Wall Street Journal reported that "In Connecticut itself, an organization of mainly Republican veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is working with Republican strategist Dan Senor to boost Joe Lieberman's efforts to win re-election as an independent."

"Mr. Senor is working in an unpaid capacity for Vets for Freedom," which commenced "its pro-Lieberman push with a full-page ad" in the Monday, August 14, 2006, Hartford Courant that "praises Mr. Lieberman for 'integrity, leadership, and unwavering commitment to America's troops.' The organization hopes to run other print and radio ads in the fall, and is also planning on campaigning door-to-door for Mr. Lieberman and holding a public rally on his behalf. 'These vets are grateful to Sen. Lieberman for not letting politics compromise his positions, and they wanted to express that,' Mr. Senor says." [3]"

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Vets_for_Freedom:_Opposing_John_Murtha_and_Supporting_Joe_Lieberman

Thu, May 29, 2008 8:15pm ET
"Fox News' Hemmer aired ad "blasting" Obama from Vets for Freedom PAC, without noting McCain's denunciation of independent ads or campaign advisers' link to VFF"

"On the May 28 edition of Fox News' America's Election HQ, co-host Bill Hemmer reported that "John McCain is getting a bit of help from the political action committee -- the PAC known as Vets for Freedom -- launching ads featuring Iraq veterans blasting Barack Obama," and aired a portion of an ad the group had released that day."

"Hemmer did not mention that two McCain supporters and frequent McCain campaign surrogates -- Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC), a general co-chairman of McCain's campaign, and Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-CT), a co-chairman of McCain's Connecticut Leadership Team -- served on the Vets for Freedom Policy Board of Advisors, but the day the group's PAC released the ad, they "request[ed] a leave from their positions...."

http://clips.mediamatters.org/items/200805290010

"McCain Ties to Veterans' Group Criticized By Obama"
by FOXNews.com
Thursday, May 29, 2008

"Two top McCain surrogates -- Connecticut Sen. Joe Lieberman and South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham -- stepped down Wednesday from their positions on the policy board of advisers for the group Vets for Freedom, in their words, to comply with McCain's "campaign guidelines.""

"Those newly released guidelines prohibit anyone with a campaign title from working with a "527″ or other independent group that publicly supports or opposes a presidential candidate."

"The New York Times reported Thursday that two Vets for Freedom members, Max Boot and Wade Zirkle, are still connected to the McCain campaign."

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/05/29/mccain-ties-to-veterans-group-criticized-by-obama/

What about Afganistan and Iran. This ad only has one issue when theres 3 issues that needs to be addressed in Iraq. Besides if Al Qaeda is defeated in Iraq and the so called surge has worked than what job do we need to finish in Iraq? If theres still work to do then the surge hasn't worked.

FINISH THE JOB. WHAT ABOUT THE JOB IN AFGANISTAN AND WE MIGHT BE AT WAR WITH IRAN. DO THEY REALIZE IRAQ ISN'T AND NEVER WAS THE PROBLEM IN THE MIDDLE EAST. THIS IS PROOF THAT THE SURGE DIDN'T WORK. IF YOU AGREE WITH THEM THAN YOU BETTER ENLIST NOW BECAUSE WE NEED MORE TROOPS.

Johnny X would say It should be illegal to say that John McCain does not know the difference between al Qaeda and insurgents. McCain made that mistake several times and Lieberman corrected him each time. Even back in school no one accused McCain of being a quick learner.

McCain has all the lack of talent of Bush with a much smaller political base. What am I missing here? Do the Republican's know that we are headed for a far worse financial crisis and hope to get out before the American people realize it so they can blame the Democrats for their own economic failure? Whatever the reason this sure does not add up to me.

Thebob.bob below said it best:

"When you wrap crap in the flag it soils the flag, shame on these so called patriots."

Vets for FREEDOM???? Freedom??? WHAT freedom? Whose freedom? Don't you just love how the Orwellian groups like this throw around these words like they are supposed to be vaguely relevant?

If we leave and the Shiites kill off more of the Sunnis, there will be anger and resentment. If the Sunnis kill off more of the Shiites, there will also be anger and resentment. This is a given. These propagandists throw around the phrase "Al Qaida in Iraq is decimated" like it is saying something. Well of course they are decimated. They were barely there in the first place. AQI only comprised 5 to 10% of the insurgency. But to hear the Bush propagandists talk, you would think the country was teeming with them.

Just lies, lies and more lies from the crowd who were telling you Saddam was behind 9/11. It's about OIL, WAR CRIMES AND THIEVERY. AND WE ARE COMPLICIT UNTIL THE PRINCIPAL FIGURES IN THIS OIL LOBBYING GROUP DISGUISED AS A PRESIDENCY IS BEHIND BARS. Wake up people. Don't believe everything that's shoved down your throats by these people waving flags.

"they should stop blaming the American people, and our troops for their failure."

Look again. That is the army of the USA in the field and they fly the stars and stripes, sent by a legal vote of the Congress and lead by our President. Our army. Our war. And no more "I never favored this war and ..."

Too late. That train left.

Our war.

Now how do you end it?

All who want to despair should line up behind thre Honorable Murtha and charge one more time for defeat. All you got to do is meet his needs and he will lead your charge. Don't wory about flips or flops - he sticks to his lines no matter what happens.

It should be illegal for Johnny X to pretend he is an Obama supporter.

It should be illegal to say bad things about Obama.

"Why won't the MSM cover John McCain gambling addiction?"

I suppose it's the same reason why they won't cover Obama's call-boy addiction.

"What veterans groups will support McSame when he is trying to eliminate major benefits to returning veterans?"

This is false and a distortion. New politics, I suppose. Name-calling and lies.

McCain disagreed with the benefits structure of Webb's GI bill, he did not oppose major benefits for GIs. And he isn't trying to eliminate benefits. He had different ideas for how the benefits should be structured, so that service members who stayed in longer got better benefits than those who left earlier.

"We broke it,"

Posted by: Consumer | July 6, 2008 4:24 PM

Nope, John McCain and George Bush broke it, they should stop blaming the American people, and our troops for their failure.

Posted by: Julian | July 6, 2008 4:29 PM

==========================================

Right there is the fallacy of ending the effort in Iraq, going home, and wishing everything will be better.

The forces that have mobilized against the US isn't going to care what party you are or what flavor of American citizen you are, we're American's and therefore responsible. We all need to own up to the errors of 2003 by putting Iraq right in 2008 and beyond.

I always remember the famous statement by General Douglas Mc Arthur, " There is no subtitute for Victory." We are at war, we must win and we are winning in Iraq. We can not let another Vietnam happen, where we won militarily but failed politically at home because of the "pacifist movement;" in other words, a "surender movement."

You leave by just packing up and leaving.

+++++++
If Obama thinks we're leaving Iraq in the next decade, he's still hitting the pipe. Not that there's anything wrong with that ... if he comes out pro-hash, then I'll start taking him a little more seriously. 'til then, the prettiest man on capitol hill should stick to what he knows: bathing suit photo-ops and motivational speeches.

Posted by: giggity | July 6, 2008 7:03 PM

Hey veterans -- thank you for all of your efforts and sacrifices in both Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as helping to elect John McCain for President!!!!!

If Obama thinks we're leaving Iraq in the next decade, he's still hitting the pipe. Not that there's anything wrong with that ... if he comes out pro-hash, then I'll start taking him a little more seriously. 'til then, the prettiest man on capitol hill should stick to what he knows: bathing suit photo-ops and motivational speeches.

Amusing, then Carter had to send the Us guys to invade Iran to restore the Shah. Clinton, to invade Afghanistan to search for Bin Laden. And Why not : 1) invade Zimbabwe now, the president of that country is a hatefull guy. 2) Declare war on China : ofr the sake of the Lama. 3) Bomberd Soudan, its a retrograd coutry. 4) Occupy Saoudi arabia : there is a lot of oil ....
What a crazy thinking of political matter.

Sandy said:
" I was going to vote for Obama but it's only July and he has already back-pedaled on the Iraq time line and campaign financing. "

He is a man of change, note.

What veterans groups will support McSame when he is trying to eliminate major benefits to returning veterans?

Plus all the returning veterans I talked to all agreed that we were in Iraq to loot and plunder the country, not to liberate the Iraqis. The vets were all upset that they were being forced to participate in Bush's illegal imperialism and genocidal war OF terror.

Calling Irak occupation a War is nonsens. from 2003, bush claimed the end of the "war" and it continues. Every day some guy die int these far countries. When this "wars" will end ?. As some wants, its for years, and the americans will pay and pay, and send their children to be killed FOR WHAT ??
Five years, thousands of casualties, billions, FOR WHAT ??
What's the reason for americans to go so far to be killed ???

Ex-GOP: the Shah of Iran was installed in power in 1942 to replace his father in that position. The 1953 'coup' just put him back in power. Mossadeq also dissolved their Parliament once gaining power. In addition, the Shah was forced from power in 1979 because of the lack of American backing by Jimmy Carter who disliked his human rights record even though he was modernizing Iran and giving women rights. Carter thought the religious leaders would have better and was 100% wrong. The groups he whined that the Shah was 'torturing' were then executed by the Ayatollas who then began shaping Iran into the state sponsor of terrorism that it is today. If you don't like going to war in the MidEast, blame Democrats. Carter let the mess happen and Clinton passed on getting bin Laden handed to him on a silver platter. Both decimated and demoralized the US military. Obama will do the same if elected. Where else do you think he'll get the billions to pay for all his spending proposals?

Posted by: kws | July 6, 2008 4:28 PM

+++++++++++++++++

So, this is the intellectual prowess of GOP/Conservatives, eh?

LOL

You started reciting 5th grade world history, from the 1940's, when FDR was in power, and then you ended up:

"If you don't like what's going on in the Middle East, blame these stupidd, weakspined Democrats and Liberals, from Carter to Clinton to Kerry. They made us look bad!"

Dude, you have the intelligence of the second smartest flea on my pet dog Homer.

I'm overwhelmingly enthused by the quality and constructive response to these types of stories.

It becomes increasingly amusing to see the blogoshpere simultaneously lampoon and offer more clarity than the mainstream media and the operators that manipulate the media.

Every time they try to sell us a bill if goods on Iraq, it's as if Americans are increasingly telling them we need a new course and strategy which looks beyond violence and its perpetuation. The Right has manipulated the message and the topic since 1980, only to steer the US and the world on a blind-man's short term bluff with a larger picture. It has taken nearly a generation for this ruse to catch up with them.

The best thing Obama can do is keep bringing it on with the GOP and call them on their consistently negligent and destructive policies in whatever shape or form these take.

It is good see American veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan pointing out the success of our work in these 2 countries. The fact is that we ARE winning the wars and that whoever is the next president should follow up on this progress! Unfortunately, only 1 candidate will do do, McCain! What I would like to see is a compromise between McCain's policies in these 2 countries with Ron Paul and the Libertarian's proposal to bring all other troops home to defend our National Borders. This would allow us to limit illegal immigration and bring real immigration reform to our country. We NEED increased legal immigration to make our country greater. Real economic, scientific, and political progress have come from mostly immigrants throughout this countries history. For world safety we need to win in Iraq and Afghanistan. For our own safety we need real immigration reform that allows more immigrants into this country legally

I dont understand WHY this supporting groops finance didnt count in the candidate campaign finance ? its benefits
Mcain after all. Pretending not cooperating with the official campaign is like a cover to spend money for candidate, and turn the face to other side saying : No, i'm independant,its not for him !!!.

Why won't the MSM cover John McCain gambling addiction?

We see all of the character signs that McCain is dangerous, and the MSM won't cover it.

Cindy is addicted to and steals proscription drugs, John McCain is a gambling addict. He is verbally abusive to his current wife, and left his first wife for becoming disabled and gaining weight.

This is a man running on George Bush's failed policy, running on the premise that his personality will some how make the failed policies work. Why won't the media cover all the warning signs on how flawed this mans character is!

McCain likes to shuffle campaign managers. It stops him from seeing that it is the candidate and not the campaign that is the problem. There is a limit to how qualified his personnel can be since the candidate is so weak. Only lobbyist would be interested in the job.

I think that these Reps cant win without doing something positive at all. Like Bush, their policy is to win by claming that the other side is the worst, not they are the best. It's cheap, but it seems working in the New America.

Obama is the only candidate that will get us out of Iraq because he is the only candidate that realizes that we do not have the money to stay. Iraq was never in our self interest and now we can't afford it as McCain's little hobby.

We will be as careful getting out as we were careless getting in. Barack Obama.

I really don't know who to vote for this election. I was going to vote for Obama but it's only July and he has already back-pedaled on the Iraq time line and campaign financing. I thought he was different but he's begining to look like any other politician talking out of both sides of his mouth.

So, Obama is going to "refine" his position on Iraq.

Wasn't Obama the one who said his judgement trumped Hillary's--and presumably McCain's--experience?

As President, he wouldn't be able to take months to refine his positions on critical decisions.

-Wm Tate,
http://www.atimelikethis.us/

We can't afford to remain in Iraq. To those who have not learned that yet, you will see how the economy unfolds during the next six months it will become apparent to many more. We are now one year and six months past the time when it was apparent that we had no chance of doing things right in Iraq. The country has deteriorated considerably from an economic standpoint in the last eighteen months and will continue to do so until we get our economic house in order. Part of that is getting out of Iraq. Bush did not have the foresight from an economic standpoint and a political standpoint to undertake the mission he undertook. These vets are acting out of the emotion of not wanting to face the truth that we can no longer afford Bush's folly.

We can't afford to remain in Iraq. To those who have not learned that yet, you will see how the economy unfolds during the next six months it will become apparent to many more. We are now one year and six months past the time when it was apparent that we had no chance of doing things right in Iraq. The country has deteriorated considerably from an economic standpoint in the last eighteen months and will continue to do so until we get our economic house in order. Part of that is getting out of Iraq. Bush did not have the foresight from an economic standpoint and a political standpoint to undertake the mission he undertook. These vets are acting out of the emotion of not wanting to face the truth that we can no longer afford Bush's folly.

"They" is code for "whitey"? Dear God.

The Iraqis at this point become responsible for themselves. It is now a civil war and there is nothing we can do to stop it. Bush armed the Sunnis as part of this surge, the surge that McCain pushed. That opened the door to a future civil war that will be far worse. We do have a responsibility to ourselves which is to exit.

Obamas approach of starting to withdraw and pressuring the Iraqis to take responsibility for their future is the only sensible response. Yes we may not get out in 16 months but the Vets approach is to live for hope that we will change a sow's ear into a silk purse. We had our chance and we did not have the commander in chief to get the job done. You can't turn back the clock. The clock says it is time to go and it is juvenile to rant just a little bit longer.

Attention pundits who dismissed Obama's argument that 527s effectively cancel the public finance system's limits:

All retractions, corrections, and apologies deserve the same prominence, the same amount of air time or column space, and the same all-knowing tone as your original incorrect statements on this issue.

All of us who have been paying any attention to political campaigns, and definitely any of us who remember the AUGUST 2004 SWIFT BOAT ATTACKS on John Kerry, had every reason to believe that right-wing groups would raise money OUTSIDE THE LIMITS OF PUBLIC FINANCING to attack the Democratic presidential nominee.

Yet, somehow, when Barack Obama announced that the current public finance system does not serve its intended purpose, largely because 527s allow big-money donors to skirt public finance limits, the pundits shrugged off his reasoning, calling it an "excuse" and, in many cases, claiming "there aren't any 527s this time."

My only consolation when reading those absurd statements was that those pundits would soon have to eat their words.

Repeat after me: Obama was right. There ARE 527s this time. They ARE raising money outside the limits of the public finance system to run advertisements in favor of the Republican nominee and against the Democratic nominee.

We can't fix another country's civil war. It doesn't work that way.

We can stay and play both sides of the fence against each other. But all we are doing is giving money, weapons and training to people who will someday come after us.

There is no easy answer here. The people who got us into that thing lied about everything. It is war without end. If and when we walk away the Shias will try to kill all of the Sunnis. And then other Arab nations will get involved.

The difference between Vietnam and Iraq? George W. Bush had an exit strategy for Vietnam.

Colin Powell, where are you? Your country needs you.

"We broke it,"

Posted by: Consumer | July 6, 2008 4:24 PM

Nope, John McCain and George Bush broke it, they should stop blaming the American people, and our troops for their failure.

Ex-GOP: the Shah of Iran was installed in power in 1942 to replace his father in that position. The 1953 'coup' just put him back in power. Mossadeq also dissolved their Parliament once gaining power. In addition, the Shah was forced from power in 1979 because of the lack of American backing by Jimmy Carter who disliked his human rights record even though he was modernizing Iran and giving women rights. Carter thought the religious leaders would have better and was 100% wrong. The groups he whined that the Shah was 'torturing' were then executed by the Ayatollas who then began shaping Iran into the state sponsor of terrorism that it is today. If you don't like going to war in the MidEast, blame Democrats. Carter let the mess happen and Clinton passed on getting bin Laden handed to him on a silver platter. Both decimated and demoralized the US military. Obama will do the same if elected. Where else do you think he'll get the billions to pay for all his spending proposals?

We broke it, we have a duty to now fix it as best as we can. The turmoil that we caused can only get worse, and more innocents will die if we just casually turn our backs on them as Sen. Obama would like us to do.

Soldiers can vote for Obama, Iraqi's can't. So he doesn't really seem to care about the impact of withdrawing.

what exactly will we be winning and what will determine when we win this war? pardon the tongue twister, but i am a little confused. why not try asking the christians of iraq what they have won in this war. more persecution? great. or how about all of the innocent men, women and children who were opposed to saddam hussein who have lost their lives in this senseless war? are their families grateful that we came to save them from themselves? i am guessing no. i think that mccain is so determined/obsessed to 'win' this war because in his twisted mind a win in iraq will erase the humiliating loss that we suffered in viet nam. the past is the past and it is time to move on. VOTE FOR CHANGE

This isn't a veterans group it is run by Ari Fleischer a Bush guy. When he was on TV he was asked the names of the soldiers in his adss he, didn't know.

Ari Fleisher, George Bush, John McCain, want to send you kids to Iraq to die, all of Americans kids for the next 100 years.

I don't trust the media to handle the Iraq issue impartially. After all, the Post was a key component of the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld marketing machine.

I do trust Gen. Powell though, and here's what he has to say about Iraq:

"The civil war will ultimately be resolved by a test of arms. It's not going to be pretty to watch, but I don't know any way to avoid it. It is happening now." He further noted, "It is not a civil war that can be put down or solved by the armed forces of the United States," and suggested that all the U.S. military could do was put "a heavier lid on this pot of boiling sectarian stew."

The truth of the matter probably is that we have done what we can; as for Iraq's ongoing civil war, we cannot finish that job.

It don't exist, if it did it would have bin sold to a tabloid for a million a long time ago. You know what, even if it did no one would care. You know what is funny, I live in the south and I know total bigots, and I mean real big time racists who are voting for Obama. No one cares about all that silliness anymore when you come right down to it. They want health care, the war over, jobs and a government they can begin to believe in again. I am not kidding, I used to own a redneck bar and I still go there now as a customer and this is what they are all talking about. We joked about setting up a website called something like, "Bigots for Obama". It is amazing how once people have the same enemies they become allies. Our enemies now is the price of gas, health care, the war and the economy in general. The person who says they will bring change will get the vote and they can be any color today. Mccain represents the past and Obama the future. No election in history has ever been won based on a return to the past platform. Obama is the future, admittedly an uncertain one but change never the less and people are ready to take a chance. Mccain just recently has alined himself even more with Bush. He is looking like he may just be a puppet now. I would suspect that if he wins Cheney will actually continue to be president. I hope you don't think Bush is president? It will just be a change of figure heads but nothing else.

++++++
I wonder when Michelle Shaniqua Obama's "whitey" tape will surface. I think the Republicans will release it in October. It would not make sense to release it now. I know the Obama people dimiss it as a hoax but that is what they want you to beleive. Michelle Obama is a race baiter. Did you hear her speech in NC? SHe kept saying throughout her speech that "they are trying to raise the bar", "they keep moving the goal post", "they, they, they" ("They" is code for "Whitey") Everytime she would say these lines you would hear the audience reply, "uh huh", "that's right", "amen", "I heard that" (obviously a black audience).

Posted by: Dianne72 | July 6, 2008 1:30 PM

what's up with the denver convention?

http://thevote.abc13.com/2008/07/conventioneer-1.html

Vets for Freedom is another Republican swiftboat group.

Joe Lieberman and Lindsey Graham were on their advisory board. Ooops! (they have both since slithered away).

Their messages usually copy McCain;s campaign. It now has a new set of "stay the course" and "finish the job" in Iraq ads coming out. What a coinkydink!

The ads will be running in Michigan, New Mexico, Ohio, Pennsylvania and Virginia. Which ALL 5 "JUST HAPPEN" to be states that are crucial for McCain. Another amazing coincidence.

GOP slimeballs are out trying to sucker Americans into another four years of war in Iraq ($12 B per month), troops KIA and WIA in Iraq for nothing as Halliburton scoops up federal cash and outrageous profits, the government gets turned into an ATM for Republican politicians, the economy goes further into the dumper, and the list goes on and on and on...

I am a vet and I won't vote for McSame or Barry-O. two sides of the same coin. Don't let either of these men be the CIC. It is the civilian policy that must be destroyed to save our troops and America and both these guys are neo-cons. Both want to spend your money for their views. McSame wants more agressive and offensive wars and won't keep his promises to fix the flow of illegals into the States. Barry wants to spend more of your money on social engineering welfare and keep the troops overseas. He wants more illegals like McSame. F 'em both.

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I really don't understand the people of this nation anymore. Is it so bad you believe using the middle names of the Obamas is a good tactic? Have we as a nation really gotten so low, so stupid as to where we fear names? Do we not read (and I'm not just talking about those things with which we agree) and make decisions for ourselves? Does the internet and the blather within hold so much sway over our minds that we believe everything on it... since it's online it has to be true right? You guys really sadden me because I have committed to defend you all and your points of view, but to be honest I don't believe any of you wallowing in your own ignora... nope wrong word because the information is readily available, morbid stupidity is more appropriate... are worth the lives of any of the troops who have given their lives for this nation since it inception. I would gladly trade 5 of you to just bring one back. I can't remember a time when I have not been less proud of my fellow Americans than I am right now!

McBush is in the first stage of syphilitic dementia due to running around with all those ladies of the evening when he was married to his first wife.

Looks like McBush supporters are as literate as Dubya! LMAO!

all white fols is racist. thay have ruined this country but that is alright cause we are taking over in november. just like the inventer of the peanut said, george washington carver, the black man can't get free until he get up inside the white house.

The "job" is finished now. Let the Iraqis kill and maim each other, not US Military. Let's get out of Afghanistan and Iraq NOW. The invasion should never have taken place. We could have killed Saddam other ways if we really wanted to. This is Bush's OIL WAR. Shame on our President and shame on those people that think our unhooking from this debacle is unpatriotic.

ROVE FOR PRESADENT!!!

Yes, Bush & Rove's job is only 90% done -- "finish the job" of destroying the U.S.

Hey vet, I'm a low paid worker who respects other opinions but tries the best to stay out of other people's business. Congress sure helped us out didn't they? Follow the money and I bet it goes into Nancy and Reid's pockets. About the war, think of result when everyone left Germany in WW1.

What is this "job"?

Meeting "satisfaction" on "18" out of "18" major indexes?

And what is it mean by that?, "satisfaction"?

"Winning the war?"

And what war is that? What America did is basically building 12-foot walls all over of Iraq, physically but ONLY TEMPORARILY separating factions from sneaking into each other's enclave and killing each other through guns, grenades and suicide bombs.

When does McCain and these socalled patriotic soldiers expect THAT to be stopped? 2 years from now? 10? 100? Or I guess it doesn't really matter to them? Only they know WHEN to pull? When they say it is safe?

It's crazy how people who like guns and violence and wars think.

But they think it is THEM who are really the peace loving folks, and without their activities, evil forces would have overwhelmed civilization long ago?

It's so funny, tragic but funny, how these people think.

When I read the headline, McCain is getting a boost, I thought laxative, vitamins for seniors or one of those new memory enhancing drugs. Stupid me.

I am a veteran.

The Vets for Freedom mission/vision to 'finish the wars' in Iraq, Afghanistan, and elsewhere mainly through military force and violence is a way too narrow solution.

Until the US and many allies, including Arab nations, help to build Iraq and Afghanistan into who countries with methods to improve economies, social relationships, education, culture, spirituality and more then the security-violence-only will simply prolong finding real solutions so our troops can come home with pride.

I encourage Vets for Freedom to follow the money. Find out who is benefiting from continuing the billions of dollars American taxpayers are spending. If Vets for Freedom have stock in the military-industrial complex and in defense and reconstruction contractors then I fully understand your position and even more disagree with it.

In the meantime, I will work to be sure that the neo-conservative Republicans now led by John McCain and the Bush-Cheney rubber-stamps in the Congress are defeated in November.

Shalom, in all its rich meaning.

I need to know your thoughts on this video.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=iutTbNABZ-U

Wow that video was brainwashing.
I leaned nothing from it but obama, obama, obama....
God help us all!

what are your thoughts on this obama video?

http://thevote.abc13.com/2008/07/another-obama-p.html

Billclint you are an ideot! She would not say anything like that! All Lies! GO OBAMA!!

I believe Michelle Obama (Whitey rant) is coming near; just give Obama one more faith lesson speech to the country.

hmmmmm.... if all you read is the head lines you really don't know jack. If Bush was making money from Iraqi oil I'm sure the media would be all over it and congress. Any thing can be written in headlines. I mean think about it, Bush sends solders to die for oil so he can go down in history as hated president who has more money because of the war as if he was never wealthy before. If he truly does not care about the Iraqi people we would be controlling the Iraqi oil. Not even that he would not have a problem nationalizing oil in America, I mean wouldn't he make just as much money if controlled the OIL in America if he nationalized it, there's lots of different ways of making money in America but to say he sent solders to die for oil over the top. Vote on facts no headlines, or emotions.

To post Dianne72....REALLY? Are you that decieved? You my friend are obviously not doing the due-diligence....DO YOUR HOMEWORK!!!!Then you won't sound FOOLISH when you post... What you're speaking about is a DISTRACTION a NON-ISSUE. PLEASE do yourself a favor and COME-OUT of the ENSLAVED racial mentality of the 'RELIABLES', you know, that not so educated, rural living, hardworking, voting constituency...The majority which the Republicans 'bet their A---S that you'll fall for their lies, hook, line and sinker, on. Do your homework....please do YOURSELF a favor. Too many people who need TRUTH can see your silliness. I don't think you're that silli. Just not well informed. do youself a favor. DO YOUR HOMEWORK...Then make an educated decision. Peace!!!

The "Hate America" crowd is out in force today. Probably stirred up by the many patriotic Americans who celebrated July 4th, the American Revolution and American independence. For them, 9/11 never really happened!

I must say that apparently there are some vets in McCain's corner. Most vets, along with their families that I have personally come across, are definitely not in McCain's corner. I've come across those giving warning that McCain is not to be the next POTUS this time around, and with their specific reason(s). It's not that they don't believe in their capabilities, because they know very well of their awesome works and what they are indeed capable of. They know very well what has been accomplished. Like the plenty, they find enough "ill" in McCain's corner that they don't find him sincere enough to vote him in. I suppose the camp of vets are divided as well in ideas of what needs to happen.

I took note of the repeated words and phrases that have come out from McCain's mouth, as well as others in his camp. I see right through that. I am so unmoved.

I respect the thought that this video is trying to convey. Some of the troops and their family members are really for winning this war.

Fact is, this was an uneccessary war. Truth is, the SURGE was basically about strong-arming the Iraqis into submitting and resolving to give us their oil. Period. There's no if's, and's, but's are supposes, about this truth. We basically surged in too make sure we got the OIL.

Just look at the brief headlines...'Bush begin's giving out oil contracts to 'big oil' cronies i.e. the SURGE WORKED!!' That's basically what this entire Iraq LIE was about. Not WMD's (which by the way were never found)not Al Qaeda (which by the way never had a heavy presence in Iraq), Not ousting Saddam Hussein....( I mean really, come on, they found him in a cave), no, and it really wasn't about Hussiens 'Human Right's' violations (we bombed Iraq at the tune of 2 million lives, i.e. Iraqi deaths, not ot mention over 8000 American and Coalition Force deaths).

We have the greater testimony of violating human rights. How hypocritical of our Nation to Lie and then Steal, and then have the audacity to accuse Other Nations of violating Human rights. The SURGES real 'face value' is nothing more than our Nation 'OCCUPYING' Iraq.

We are famous for accusing other 'ROGUE' nations of occupying other 'FREEDOM SEEKING' nations. Yet, when we ourselves are the 'ROGUES', doing this, you know, 'OCCUPYING' foreign nations, The media refuses or maybe they are STRANGLED by our Government into NOT using the phrase, 'THE AMERICAN OCCUPANCY OF IRAQ/AFGHANISTAN'.

We are the most HYPOCRITICAL-ROGUE Nation that exist under this ADMINISTRATION and the Republican war-driven policies it pushes.

A spokesman from the the Republican party, Michael Medved, a syndicated conservative radio host decries governement departments which he believes are waiste of government money. He believes if we kill these programs our 'WAR CHEST WILL GROW LARGER'.

Medved has stated, "In this regard, the next GOP Presidential candidate must go well beyond Reagan's generalized calls for shrinking government and cleaning up the mess in Washington... what to cut, and how....(Commerce, Education, Housing and Urban Development, Health and Human Services, Agriculture...etc) and watch the bureaucrats howl'

The Republican party and this Administration and John McCain see CUTTING education, commerce, urban development, health and human services, and agriculture, more important than cutting war-spending in order to balance our national budget or replenish our national treasury.....THINK ABOUT THIS...They are saying WAR is Paramount over even EDUCATION or HEALTHCARE....

This is the Republican point of view on how to deal with our Nation and Right what's economically Wrong???? Notice there is no suggestion by Medved about cut's in 'WAR-SPENDING', of course not.

This Administration and this Republican party, desires to conquer other (OIL RICH) Governments in order to balance OUR BUDGET and REPLENISH our treasury. They are using FEAR of Terroist/the war on terror, (which by the way has made us no safer), to do this.

The United States is now operating in the sense of what we once decried others as operating in...WE ARE A ROGUE NATION, strong arming Oil Rich Nations through the MISUSE of Military Might.

This commercial is very dignified and even 'patriotic sounding'. Yet, Fact is this commercial is PROPORTING a continued war effort. Sure McCain will try and CAPATALIZE ON THIS.... He is, after all a