McCain Tells Latinos Immigration Reform is 'Top Priority'
Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., listens to a question from Enrique Morones at the San Diego Convention Center while participating in the during the National Council of La Raza keynote luncheon in San Diego, Calif., July 14, 2008. (Associated Press)
By Juliet Eilperin
SAN DIEGO -- Speaking at the National Council of La Raza conference today, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) engaged in a lively give-and-take with several Latino activists who questioned his stance on illegal immigration.
In one heated exchange with an audience member, a questioner asked McCain whether he, like presumptive Democratic nominee Barack Obama (Ill.), would make immigration reform a top priority as president and provide a pathway to citizenship for 12 million undocumented workers living illegally in the U.S. as part of a single immigration bill.
McCain responded by defending his record on immigration against Obama's, saying the Democrat took his lead from labor unions and "voted for amendments that would have killed the bill. That's a fact sir, that's a fact... I think my actions speak for themselves." When it comes to immigration, McCain said, "It's my top priority today and it will be my top priority tomorrow."
But the questioner continued to press McCain, asking whether he would address border security and immigration reform in a single bill. "One single bill?" he asked.
At that point, McCain reverted to the position he adopted earlier this year during the GOP primary, where he suggested the country should take on the question of border enforcement before addressing questions like guest workers and amnesty for undocumented workers. "One single, comprehensive bill -- but first we have to assure the American people that the borders are secure," he said, adding that if politicians fail to do that, "then we don't pass the legislation."
After a couple of questions a La Raza official suggested the senator had to leave, but McCain -- who joked that in light of the "tough questions" he should have stuck to his prepared speech -- insisted he would take a couple more. At one point he even tossed his microphone into the audience, at which point the questioner asked whether McCain would commit to ending the "inhumane raids" that separate illegal immigrants from their babies and small children.
"When your forefathers came, there was no illegal-legal. Everyone was welcome at Ellis Island," the man asserted.
But McCain refused to rule out the idea of raids on illegal immigrants, saying, "The United States has to have secure borders sir, and that's necessary, even if you disagree."
In his prepared speech before the crowd, McCain argued he deserved Latinos' support even if they have backed Democrats in the past. Saying that he would "prefer" not to attack Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.), the presumptive GOP nominee added that he felt obligated to respond to Obama's allegations Sunday that he backed away from comprehensive immigration reform for political reasons.
"At a moment of great difficulty in my campaign, when my critics said it would be political suicide for me to do so, I helped author with Senator [Edward] Kennedy comprehensive immigration reform, and fought for its passage. I cast a lot of hard votes, as did the other Republicans and Democrats who joined our bipartisan effort," McCain told the audience. "I did so not just because I believed it was the right thing to do for Hispanic Americans. It was the right thing to do for all Americans."
Obama, the senator continued, "declined to cast some of those tough votes.... I never ask for any special privileges from anyone just for having done the right thing. Doing my duty to my country is its own reward. But I do ask for your trust that when I say, 'I remain committed to fair, practical and comprehensive immigration reform,' I mean it. I think I have earned that trust."
The Obama campaign, responding to McCain's remarks, argued that it was unfair to attack Obama for supporting amendments which they said were aimed at improving the bill rather than killing it.
"The facts are that Barack Obama stood up for comprehensive immigration reform in the Senate, and even the measure the McCain campaign is attacking us on today was supported by 40 immigrant groups supporting reform including La Raza," said Obama spokesman Tommy Vietor. "And you don't need to take our word for it -- a co-chair for John McCain's campaign, Mel Martinez, praised Obama's leadership on the bill and thanked him for his support. The fact is while Martinez was praising Obama for 'standing firm in the face of extreme pressure' John McCain was telling GOP primary voters that he wouldn't even have voted for his own bill."
During his speech McCain acknowledged it would not be easy to win some of the members of today's audience. "I know many of you are Democrats, regrettably," he said, as a large group in the audience applauded, "and many of you would usually vote for the presidential candidate of that party." The audience cheered, in solidarity with Obama.
"I know I must work hard to win your votes, but you have always given me a respectful hearing, and I appreciate it," McCain continued, adding that while he admires both Obama and his former opponent, Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.), "I intend to compete for your votes by continuing to earn your trust."
McCain got a warm welcome from La Raza's president Janet MurguÃa, who made a point of highlighting McCain's longstanding ties with the Hispanic community by saying "Nobody has to tell John McCain Latinos are hardworking and entrepreneurial." MurguÃa made a visible slip as she handed off the mike to McCain by implying he would be elected this fall, saying, "To our next... your presumptive Republican nominee, John McCain." The crowd was friendly, letting out a cheer when McCain mentioned his trip this month to Mexico and Colombia, clapping as he outlined some of his policy proposals and giving him a standing ovation at the end of the speech.
Seeking to woo the group, McCain reiterated his commitment to achieving comprehensive immigration reform in terms that appealed to a Latino audience. While he continued to say he would focus on securing U.S. borders first, he framed the pledge in language that sounded more favorable to immigrants than his usual town-hall remarks.
"We must prove we have the resources to secure our borders and use them, while respecting the dignity and rights of citizens and legal residents of the United States," he said. "When we have achieved border security goal, we must enact and implement the other parts of practical, fair and necessary immigration policy. We have economic and humanitarian responsibilities as well, and they require no less dedication from us in meeting them."
Describing some of the illegal immigrants who died as they tried to cross the border in the Southwest, McCain concluded his vivid portrait of these dead Latinos by saying, "These simply were God's children who wanted to be Americans." The audience applauded with vigor.
McCain also devoted a significant portion of his speech to economic issues -- he noted that there are two million Latino-owned businesses in the U.S. -- saying he would ease the path to recovery by keeping taxes low and promoting trade agreements with Latin America. Arguing that tax increases translate into lost jobs, McCain predicted, "I'm not going to let that happen. I'm going to keep taxes low and cut them when I can."
Taking another shot at the presumptive Democratic nominee, McCain made a point of tweaking the Illinois senator for failing to ever visit Latin America, a hit that resonated with the crowd.
"And while it is surely not my intention to become my opponent's scheduler, I hope Senator Obama soon visits some of the other countries of the Americas for the first time," he said, sparking applause. "Were he to do so, I think he, too, would see that stronger economic bonds with our neighbors and the closer friendships they encourage, are a great benefit in many ways to our country."
McCain also urged the audience to lobby Obama to join him in a town hall meeting as part of the campaign. Alluding to the controversy that flared up last week when his economic adviser, former senator Phil Gramm (R-Tex.) called Americans "whiners" who were in the midst of a "mental recession."
Americans, he suggested, "don't want to hear the sound bite, the misstatement, surrogate who may have made a mistake. They want to know about us."
Posted at 5:22 PM ET on Jul 14, 2008
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Posted by: mike | July 18, 2008 12:04 PM | Report abuse
The Economic Truths of Immigration Reform
What are we so afraid of?
President George W. Bush just met with Mexican President Vicente Fox in Cancun, and once again Fox and Mexico got a free pass for their role in the economics of the U.S. immigration mess. Why is the U.S. so soft on Mexico?
When Fox took Mexico's helm six years ago he promised pro-growth policies. But it never happened. Right off the bat he sought a higher value-added tax, and since then has never had the courage to privatize the oil and gas sector. So, Mexico's vast energy and mineral-wealth base has never developed into a job-producing machine. Meanwhile, small-business credit availability is low and inflation tax-bracket creep is high in the absence of tax reform. No wonder Mexican families seek a better life in America.
Instead of an Asian or Irish Tiger, Mexico has become a poodle-like Chihuahua, with economic growth of less than 2 percent a year and per-capita growth at less than 1 percent. That's pathetic. In an age when free-market reforms are sweeping emerging economies worldwide, Mexico should be growing at 8 to 10 percent each year.
Over the past fifteen years, according to the World Bank, China and India have surged ahead of Mexico and the gap is widening. Mexico has gone nowhere. And until Mexico's economic malaise is cured, millions will continue to seek economic opportunity in the United States. Can you blame them?
As long as the American boom beckons, Mexicans in search of prosperity will continue to stream to this country. They have a strong incentive to do so. The only way to reduce illegal immigration, therefore, is to raise the unskilled H-2B visa level and bring it in line with job openings in the United States. This is the only feasible economic solution to the chronic problem of illegal immigration. The idea worked forty years ago with the successful Bracero program for farm workers. It can work again.
Today's low visa limit of only 140,000 has caused illegal flows to skyrocket. This must be changed. Tamar Jacoby of the Manhattan Institute estimates that U.S. labor-market conditions can absorb about 400,000 Mexican immigrants per year. This would balance labor supply-and-demand conditions and illegal immigration would plummet.
You can build a fence, but desperate Mexicans in search of economic opportunity will climb over it or tunnel under it. This is the reality. And by the way, our H-1B visa program for skilled workers, now at only 65,000, should be unlimited. We need all the scientists and engineers we can get.
Once these immigrants get here they work hard. According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, Hispanic unemployment is only 5.5 percent, compared to 4.8 percent overall.
As for the claim that illegal workers don't pay taxes, Princeton professor Douglas Massey estimates that roughly two-thirds of undocumented immigrants pay the FICA payroll tax. Overall, illegals have fed $7 billion to Social Security and $1.5 billion to Medicare. They are contributing to our wealth, not reducing it.
And what do they take from the system? According to Forbes magazine, only 10 percent of illegal Mexicans have sent a child to an American public school and just 5 percent have received food stamps or unemployment benefits. A U-Cal Davis study also shows that more immigrant workers leads to more economic growth. This is standard economics. Multiply an enlarged workforce times existing productivity and you get more economic growth.
But for some reason, immigration opponents can't make this connection. They are blinded by fear-mongering, defeatism, and pessimism.
Colorado congressman Tom Tancredo calls illegal immigration "a scourge that threatens the very future of our nation." Huh? That's xenophobic nonsense. In economic terms the U.S. has never had it so good. Statistic after statistic says we're booming, with 175,000 net new jobs created each month and record levels of Americans working. In fact, since the early Reagan 1980s, the U.S. economy has been booming almost uninterrupted, creating 44 million new jobs even during the takeoff of high immigration.
Exactly what are we so afraid of? As Center for Equal Opportunity chairman Linda Chavez has been pointing out, Hispanics are great entrepreneurs, small-business owners, and job creators. According to 2002 Census Bureau data, Hispanics are opening new businesses at a rate that's three-times faster than the national average.
As a Reagan conservative, I believe in freedom and opportunity. Globalization is here to stay. Proper reform should combine stronger border security with higher visa levels and a path to citizenship. Yes, illegals should pay fines and go to the back of the citizenship line. Yes, employers must aggressively cooperate with the new rules. But compassion must coexist with free-economy principles and the rule of law.
Before he passed away, Pope John Paul II quoted Matthew 25:35: "I was a stranger and you welcomed me." That is precisely the spirit America should seek when it comes to immigration reform.
Posted by: eco | July 17, 2008 5:11 PM | Report abuse
McCain is begging for Latinos for their votes. Obama has been screwing Latinos for their votes. Get the difference?
Posted by: Diego | July 17, 2008 4:44 AM | Report abuse
Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans will get my vote this year. My vote will either go to a Libertatian candidate or my dog. The days of voting for the lesser of the two evils are gone for me; as evil always wins when vote for one of them.
Posted by: Tack | July 16, 2008 5:36 PM | Report abuse
I like Senator McCain's natural speech styles: Again semiotics--not semantics!!
Posted by: imagination | July 16, 2008 2:17 PM | Report abuse
McCain wants to secure the border first, but what that means is getting a signed statement from the border Governors that it has been secured. Hell, they would sign a statement today saying it was secure, traitor Perry, Arnold, Richardson, and Napolitano, have already shown their true colors.
And what is all this garbage about separating families? What kind of people would leave their own children and not take them with...mind boggling.
They steal into this country in the middle of the night, why? Because they know exactly what they are doing-breaking the law.
President and Congress: You promised enforcement in 1986, if we would give you an amnesty, well you got it but of course you did not enforce anything! ENFORCE THE LAW !!
Posted by: TEXAS | July 16, 2008 12:03 PM | Report abuse
And another comment. McCain has insisted he is a Teddy Roosevelt. Really. Mr. McCain read the following quote by President Roosevelt regarding immigrants...you are not a Teddy Roosevelt:
QUOTE "We should insist that if the immigrant who comes here, does in good faith become an American and assimilates himself to us he shall be treated on an exact equality with every one else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed or birth-place or origin.
But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American and nothing but an American. If he tries to keep segregated with men of his own origin and separated from the rest of America, then he isn't doing his part as an American. There can be no divided allegiance here. . . We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language, for we intend to see that the crucible turns our people out as Americans, of American nationality, and not as dwellers in a polyglot boarding-house; and we have room for but one soul loyalty, and that is loyalty to the American people." End Quote.
Posted by: DahtkaD | July 16, 2008 9:07 AM | Report abuse
Pandering...seems to be the thing to do to get votes from those that can't legally vote. "God's children that come here to be Americans"? Really Senator McCain? Are you referring to the illegals that burn the US Flag on US soil? The illegals that fly the Mexican flag throughout the US while desecrating the US flag...these people want to be Americans? It is indeed unfortunate that we have canadidates so clueless about illegal immigration that they cannot differentiate from LEGAL immigration. McCain, do you really think pandering to illegal aliens will gain you votes over conservative INDEPENDENTS who are US citizens and VOTERS?! Your strategy is appalling.
Posted by: DahktaD | July 16, 2008 8:58 AM | Report abuse
Making the comment on border security to La Raza (a group wishing to steal US territory for Mexico, and which supports illegal immigration to do this) is akin to making a "The Surge Worked" speech to a crowd of supporters of Mutaqada Sadr!
Posted by: Anonymous | July 16, 2008 7:56 AM | Report abuse
If McCain and Obama are the best that America can produce as presidential candidates, then we're all f*cked for real.
Posted by: Hillary | July 16, 2008 2:40 AM | Report abuse
OBAMA 2008
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Posted by: qkax5nzfg9 | July 15, 2008 7:51 PM | Report abuse
Where's the fence???
Posted by: rocker don | July 15, 2008 7:38 PM | Report abuse
Now, who else said immigration reform was their top priority? Oh, that's right, it was George W. Bush before taking office. The truth is, McCain wants more cheap labor for business so they don't have to pay fair wages to low-end American workers, just like Bush. Neoconservatives are the slave owners and robber barrons of today -- they put business in charge of governemnt, and that makes them facists. Listen-up Sen. McCain and Obama: Patriots want illegal immigration stopped before any talk of amnesty legislation.
Posted by: Chuck | July 15, 2008 1:52 PM | Report abuse
I don't quite understand it. If John McCain would like to do ammenesty they would at least created some reform for Highly skilled legal immigrant.
Posted by: Jose | July 15, 2008 1:50 PM | Report abuse
God bless cheap labour.? Hell let's bring in every country of poor people. And we should, if it does not take American and Canadian jobs. Please don't say cheap labour. If they need a safe place we should pay them the same our American friends, unfortunately you have a need for slaves. If a country needs aid, we should be there. From Canada. If we try to change a countries culture, we are lost and shame on us. History will tell you if you care to look. And, I don't want to hear about changing their religion. We do not belong there.....
Posted by: justada55+ | July 15, 2008 12:44 PM | Report abuse
Interesting. I just watched a video of McCain yesterday answering a question in front of La Raza about whether or not he supports the DREAM Act. His answer was a clear, resounding "Yes", reminding his audience he co-sponsored the Act.
But the column with the video (a blog) predicted the press wouldn't mention this, because to do so might force them to wonder why McCain:
a) sponsored the DREAM Act;
b) failed to show up to vote for or against it;
c) told numerous conservative audiences he steadfastly opposes the DREAM Act, and would never, ever vote for it;
d) told Hispanic audiences he steadfastly supports the DREAM Act, and that he co-sponsored it proudly!
Those items, FYI, are in time order over the last 9 months!
I've now checked at least five major national papers, and sadly the blogger was correct! Only one of the five even mentioned the question, but failed to point out it was a flip-flop from what he told GOP audiences just two months ago.
You'd think at some point the press would be embarassed over how McCain assumes they are either so totally in his pocket, or so totally stupid, that he can flip then flop then flip again, to suit his audience, and never have to fear (as all the other candidates, left and right, have had to) that the press might do their job and challenge him on his never-ending position changes!
As one blogger put it, McCain has developed the ability to hold 10 different positions on a 2-position issue, and be confident he won't be challenged in the press! Sure makes it easy to run a campaign when the press are your adoring base!
Posted by: Zoomie | July 15, 2008 12:25 PM | Report abuse
God forbid the day that illegal immigrants from poor countries stop coming to America. Because cheap energy and cheap labor is the staple of our economy, always has been and always will be.
And because the day that the illegal immigrants stop coming is the day that you Demo-crates racists and you Hollywood hypocrites would have to begin living in the real world and do real works.
Posted by: pete | July 15, 2008 11:05 AM | Report abuse
The basic problem as I see it is that we once again have "taxation without representation." Nobody in government really cares about what the American people want. Our elected officials do not represent us, they represent special interest groups and the money trail.
1. These illegal aliens broke the law when they crossed our borders illegally.
2. These illegal aliens broke the law when they obtained fraudulent identification.
3. These illegal aliens broke the law whey they used their fraudulent identification to obtain a driver's license, etc.
4. These illegal aliens continue to commit fraud as they defraud the Social Security Administration, Internal Revenue Service, and other agencies.
Do we really want to grant these law breakers amnesty and reward them with American citizenship? I say, exercise the rule of law and cut off the job magnet and this problem will take care of itself.
Posted by: Larry Loiselle | July 15, 2008 9:59 AM | Report abuse
DUMP John Mc Shame!
Vote Constitution Party!
Chuck Baldwin!!
The CHANGE Conservatives have been waiting for!!
Posted by: Rosanna Pulido | July 15, 2008 9:58 AM | Report abuse
It looks like both Amnesty Juan (John) McCain and Panderer Barack Hussein Obama
must be running somekind of weird contest
to self-destruct and implode their own
Presidential Campaigns with their endless
pandering to the phony Hispanic organizations that only represent a very
small portion of the Hispanic Community.
So both the Democratic and Republican Parties damn well need to Dump Both Obama
and McCain and end their insanity demand
for Illegal Alien Amnesty. No Obama and No
McCain in 2008.
Posted by: Ralphinphnx | July 15, 2008 9:58 AM | Report abuse
Respect is earned!!!!!
When you begin taking responsibility for your actions and crossing borders illegally (yes, that is not directed at all immigrants) then you will command my respect. I am one of the millions of citizens in the U.S. who are tired of hearing about how hard it is for the illegal immigrant, risking their life, blah, blah, blah. How about those who do enter this country legally? You make their wait even longer because you are selfish. McCain has a great plan for reform. Do you think you deserve to be a U.S. Citizen just because you risked your life to get over the borders? Give me a break. There is a law that was broken and if you can break those laws, then you will break more. How about if you need to leave the country you live in for whatever reason, go to the country next to you? Find a country that will assist you the "legal" way and stop draining my taxes for your shortfalls.
Posted by: Garth | July 15, 2008 8:45 AM | Report abuse
How wonderful to hear from a Vietnam vet. How right to say that America is not the America even Canadians understand or know anymore. And yes,we have our own problems. When will we the true Americans and Canadians take our Country bacK?
My only hope is that my country Canada tightens up our immigration rules for security reasons. I am however saddened that we as brother and sister, Canada and the United States must make it so difficult to visit our only true friends. We use to b so close but have been restricted, and it is getting worse, from our closest friends. Hope to hear from more vets and Americans with the same common sense. Trust me, we suffer united, and it is only the beginning. May your God bless you. Over 50 and ashamed at the mess we left our children. Perhaps the young can inspire us older folks and united, No Politician can stop us.
Posted by: Justadad55+ | July 15, 2008 3:33 AM | Report abuse
To all supporters of amnesty:
I'm just curious, how do you explain this to the millions of people that actually followed immigration laws?
Posted by: dazed | July 15, 2008 1:52 AM | Report abuse
Pseudo John McCain:
Actually, when you lower taxes, you give people more money to spend and invest -- leading to more job creation. More job creation leads to greater revenue for the govt through tax.
I'm not defending McCain, just saying the basics. I don't think I can get myself to vote for McCain anymore after him going back to his amnesty agenda. I hope someone can convince me to go back to him.
Posted by: dazed | July 15, 2008 12:33 AM | Report abuse
I'm going to keep taxes lower, overspending the budget if I need to, and if that makes the dollar weaker and gas prices higher, then I will just blame the Democrats for not letting my big oil friends drill for more oil in your backyard, just like my heros George W Bush and Dick Cheney.
Posted by: John McCain | July 14, 2008 11:40 PM | Report abuse
The good thing about Tony Snow is that, for all his nastiness and lying, just like Lee Atwater before him, Tony Snow is dead.
Posted by: majorteddy | July 14, 2008 11:34 PM | Report abuse
As a Vietnam veteran, I don't even recognize America any longer. Neither Obama nor McCain will do a thing to control our borders. We can all disagree about Iraq, but surely preventing 12 million illegal immigrants from wandering around America would be one step toward national security?
Posted by: john | July 14, 2008 11:34 PM | Report abuse
McCain why do you even speak to la raza (the race) a racist group or lulac another racist group they believe that the western part of the US belongs to them If your advisors are telling you to speak to them or pander to them they are wrong The illegals will never vote for you They laugh at you for being dumb enough to believe that if you give them amnesty they will be for you DUMB REAL DUMB
Posted by: Bobby G | July 14, 2008 11:29 PM | Report abuse
if anyone thinks these two knuckleheads who are supposedly the best that the two parties have to offer will enforce border security and not grant amnesty for the 20-30 million illegals... well i gotta bridge in brooklyn for ya, CHEAP.... some good land in south florida, cheap AND ocean front property in Arizona. cheap! because FORGET IT-- ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. these two do not care about us the american people.. get use to that fact
Posted by: Anonymous | July 14, 2008 11:14 PM | Report abuse
you must be joking... the repugs want/wish/dream about frog marching anyone with an accent to the border. McGoo could care less, he just want's to be President and then die.
Posted by: angriestdogintheworld | July 14, 2008 10:57 PM | Report abuse
Border Security is a Sane, Fair and Enforceable Immigration provided by good government and Barack Obama will establish that respect for the Constitution through Leadership.
Posted by: Fareed | July 14, 2008 10:38 PM | Report abuse
Ricki MoronAss KISS OFF. Duh! ALL talk about immigration has only been directed towards those whom are ILLEGAL!!!!! We do not need reform. We need to enforce current immigration laws with out modification and the "Sneaks" will leave. Legal Immigration has allowed 1.5 million visas per year. But, we have been over run by 20 times that number from "SNEAKY' unscrupolous people. John McCain, PLEASE build a wall and deport them all, including their anchor bables! Thank You.
Posted by: American Man | July 14, 2008 10:19 PM | Report abuse
Will somebody please go explain to that
senile old fool Amnesty John McCain that
if McCain continues to endlessly openly
pander to the Hispanic Voters,that McCain
will have lost every Republican and every
Independent Vote in the USA. And also don't
buy Panderer Juan McCain's BS about McCain
Securing Our Borders First Before McCain
grants Illegal Alien Amnesty to every Illegal Alien Lawbreaker in the USA just
like Panderer Barack Hussein Obama will do
so as well as granting Instant US Citizenship to Every Illegal Alien in US!
Its time both political parties DUMP OBAMA
and MCCAIN! NO AMNESTY! NO OBAMA NO MCCAIN!
Posted by: Sandy5274 | July 14, 2008 9:50 PM | Report abuse
I have pleaded with you before to go to the library (we have a free one here) and do your own research on John McCain.
He is a bad person
Posted by: Westexacan | July 14, 2008 8:46 PM | Report abuse
Obama keeps reversing his position, he keeps flip-flopping. The war in Iraq timeline, the surveillance bill, troops in Afghanistan, and now this new issue on immigration. It seems every time we read something about him in the papers now his position has reversed from what it was just two months ago, during the Democratic nomination process against Hillary. Did he just tell us what we want to hear so he could beat Hillary? If he keeps this up eventually we won't be able to tell him apart from McCain. Hillary, we miss you, won't you come back and save us from this charlatan, this pretender?
Posted by: Robert | July 14, 2008 8:39 PM | Report abuse
Just a note to all the people who will evaluate my clearly objective post, that can be backed up by mounds of evidence, as somehow racist. Could you all start the criticisms at once so we can get the usuall charges of bigotry, etc. out of the way.
Posted by: Bobby | July 14, 2008 8:09 PM | Report abuse
Hispanics who will not obey the laws of the United States, that were established by the Europeans that built this nation, desever NOTHING. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. They disrespect the people who founded America and made it great. Just my opinion, if I'm still allowed as an American to have one.
Posted by: Bobby | July 14, 2008 8:04 PM | Report abuse
Carl29 I am also a Hispanic, but an American first. you can't ask for respect if you will not respect our laws.
Respect our soverignty and the rule of law. Ilegal is Ilegal.
Posted by: Edgar | July 14, 2008 7:30 PM | Report abuse
These people are smarter then Mccain gives them credit for. He must think he is talking to his gardener or something.
Posted by: Anonymous | July 14, 2008 7:15 PM | Report abuse
Oh Good God only St John the Panderer,
Amnesty Juan McCain can snatch failure out
of the jaws of success,by McCains endless
open pandering to the radical Hispanic
organizations,like LaRaz,and the cheap labor Illegal Alien Amnesty Lobby...And
that can only mean McCain didnot learn a
damn thing after McCain and Teddy Kennedy
and George W Bush's Illegal Alien Amnesty
Bill got defeated in Congress by the vast
majority of Americans telling Congress NO
AMNESTY! But don't forget Barack Obama is
also a Hispanic Voter Panderer and Obama
wants Illegal Alien Amnesty and Free Immediate US Citizenship for All Illegal
Aliens. Throw McCain and Obama under the
bus and start all over again.
Posted by: Claudine 1000 | July 14, 2008 6:52 PM | Report abuse
Wake up, Sen. McCain!
Hispanics are not going to trust "el gringo de la inmigracion"
Republicans have pillaged latin america.
Democrats are the party of working people. Obama knows what it's like to be a minority, knows what it's like to be raised by a single mother. He didn't get where he is because of his father- he's a self-made man who worked hard to get where he is, and latinos identify with him.
If you had any decency you would still be with your first wife. And you'd have been a democrat who fought for minority rights. Instead, you joined Barry Goldwater's Arizona Republican party. The same Arizona that gave us Operation Eagle Eye, Rehnquist, and O'Connor.
You, sir, are going down. Courtesy of the votes of the American people. Yes, those same people that your distinguished colleagues in Arizona tried to prevent from voting in the 60s are going to vote against you. A fitting end to an unfit Presidential wannabe.
Posted by: JR, Boston | July 14, 2008 6:36 PM | Report abuse
Certainly, there are millions of Hispanic immigrants and their children who fit this paradigm; their admirable work ethic has revitalized neighborhoods and brought valuable cultural traditions to this country. But as a Los Angeles native, I was not so sure that the archetype of the "redemptive Hispanic" captured the entire story of Hispanic immigration. So I visited schools and jails throughout Los Angeles and Orange County, talking to students, teachers, counselors, inmates, and police officers, and discovered a picture that is far more complex than the open borders advocates acknowledge or even allow in polite discourse. And looking at social statistics, I could only conclude that the "redemptive Hispanic" is more myth than reality. Especially among second and third generation Hispanics, gang involvement, illegitimacy, and school failure are serious problems that are creating a second underclass.
Speak with students in any heavily Latino school and youIn observing the standard discourse about immigration I noticed a certain archetype popping up again and again, especially in the discourse of open border conservatives: what I call the "redemptive Hispanic." It was said that Hispanic immigrants would save America from itself by reinvigorating those family and will come across comments like this, told me by Jackie, a vivacious illegal alien from Guatemala, who was getting her GED at Belmont High School in Los Angeles's overwhelmingly Hispanic, gang-ridden Rampart district: "Most of the people I used to hang out with when I first came to the school have dropped out. Others got kicked out or got into drugs. Five graduated, and four home girls got pregnant."
Jackie's observations have been confirmed by every teen I spoke to while researching teen pregnancy and out of wedlock child-bearing in Southern California. "This year was the worst for pregnancies," said Liliana, an American-born senior at Manual Arts High School near downtown Los Angeles. "A lot of girls get abortions; some drop out." Are girls ashamed when they get pregnant? I asked . "Not at all," Liliana responds. Among Hispanic teens the stigma of single parenthood has vanished.
Statistics bear out these first-person accounts. Mexican girls--who come from by far the largest and fastest-growing immigrant population--now have the highest teen pregnancy rates in the country. The Mexican teen birthrate is 93 births per every 1,000 girls, compared with 27 births for every 1,000 white girls, 17 births for every 1,000 Asian girls, and 65 births for every 1,000 black girls.
Hispanic women have the highest unmarried birthrate in the country. Moreover, 48 percent of all Hispanic births occur outside of marriage, compared with 24 percent of white births and 15 percent of Asian births. Only the percentage of black out-of-wedlock births -- 68% -- exceeds the Hispanic rate. But the black population is not going to triple over the next few decades.
There is no greater predictor of future dysfunction than growing up in a single-parent home. Children raised in single-parent homes are at far higher risk of school failure, juvenile delinquency, emotional problems, teen pregnancy, and poverty than children raised by married parents.
Gang life is thriving in Southern California schools, and is spreading across the country with the migration of Hispanic immigrants. Crime involvement worsens dramatically from the first to the second generation of Latinos. The incarceration rate of Mexican-Americans is 3.45 times higher than that of whites. A whopping 28% of Mexican-American males in San Diego between the ages of 18 and 24 reported having been arrested since 1995, and 20%reported having been incarcerated -- a rate twice that of other immigrant groups.
This summer in Southern California, in two separate incidents just weeks apart, Latino gang members fatally gunned down two grandmothers who had confronted them while they were spraying gang graffiti. The gunmen were not recently arrived illegals, but part of a burgeoning Hispanic-American gang culture.
I should also mention that Hispanics have the highest school drop-out rate in the country -- a recipe for economic decline.
These are problems that are currently taboo to speak about, but they must be looked at unflinchingly as we decide what our immigration policy should be. While many immigrants continue to thrive and to enrich our country, too many from the second and third generation of Hispanics are developing behaviors that will fray the social fabric and cost taxpayers millions in welfare and criminal justice outlays.
FP: Steven Malanga, kindly give us your thoughts on Heather Macdonald's findings. Then tell us your angle on the cost Hispanic immigrants have produced to the American economy.
Malanga: Many of the social problems that Heather outlines are prescriptions for economic failure, too. Studies of the poor, for instance, indicate that a big chunk of poverty in America is not a result of a lack of economic opportunity or a failure of our economic system, but of poor choices that individuals make in life that bring them great disadvantages. For instance, two-thirds of all families in poverty in America are headed by single-parents, and in fewer than 20 percent of those families is the parent working full time.
That's why we look at statistics on teen pregnancies and out-of-wedlock births among immigrants and their American-born children with such alarm. They are one reason why the old formula of immigrants coming to America and finding economic success for themselves and their children apparently doesn't apply as widely to this generation of immigrants.
In the book I go into some detail about what the latest research shows us about the economic performance of immigrants in this, the so-called Second Great Migration, especially in contrast to previous generations of immigrants who came during what is often called the First Great Migration--from 1880 to about 1925. There are crucial differences which it is important to understand.
For one thing, studies have shown that although immigrants during the First Great Migration were described as the 'tired' and 'poor' of Europe, they actually came with skills and trades, and as a result, they fit into the American economy of the time fairly well. A study by the National Academies found that immigrants of that migration were actually on average slightly more skilled than the average American worker of the time, which is one reason why they attained economic parity with Americans quickly, and also why their children succeeded so well, on average. Another reason so many immigrants from the First Great Migration succeeded is because America put immigration restrictions in place starting in the 1920s, which greatly reduced migration and also minimized the competition that those already here would face from additional newcomers.
By contrast, today's immigrants are largely out of step with our economy and confined to low-wage work where, because of their lack of education, they get stuck. A study by economists at Harvard, for instance, found that 63 percent of Mexican male immigrants do not have a high school education. As a result, those immigrants not only experience a larger wage gap with the American workforce when they first arrive than immigrants of 100 years ago experienced, but the wage gap persists. A study of Mexican immigrants who arrived in the 1970s found that 20 years later they hadn't made much economic progress. Traditional economic mobility wasn't working for them. Even more startling is that young Mexican male immigrants arriving more recently have an even larger wage gap relative to American workers.
This research has implications not only for the workers themselves, but for their children. Although we cherish the idea of immigrants' kids working hard to succeed in America, economists will tell you that on average an entire generation of offspring can only better their parents by so much in terms of educational achievement and economic gains. This is why one study by Harvard economist George Borjas predicted that by 2030 the children of today's Mexican born immigrants will still have a significant wage gap with the average American worker.
The size of the wage gap and the problems that the children of immigrants in school are having also probably explains why today's immigrant families use social services to a far greater degree than the average native-born American family. I cite a number of groundbreaking studies done by economists for the National Academies on usage and costs of social services in two states--California and New Jersey. The California study estimated that every native-born family in the state was paying nearly $1,300 in additional taxes because the cost of providing government services to immigrant families so heavily outweighed the taxes they pay. Economists have replicated these studies in other places now, including Florida, with similar results.
Because so many immigrants are low wage workers, their contribution to the economy is not as significant as the contributions that immigrants once made. The National Academies study estimated in 1998 that immigrants produced a net economic benefit of some $10 billion to our economy, which in an economy of our size is a very small contribution, especially when contrasted with the costs. Studies which estimate a bigger benefit typically include the wages being paid to immigrants themselves as part of the contribution to our economy, or they often make projections into the future based on questionable assumptions to 'find' a time in the distant future when today's immigrants will finally produce a net benefit to the economy.
Of course, some advocates for today's very liberal levels of immigration say that immigrants are doing jobs that Americans won't do. Yet we have had so much immigration since the early 1970s that immigrants are now competing with other immigrants for jobs here in the U.S., driving down each other's wages and making economic progress more difficult. A number of studies have shown that today's immigrants have the biggest impact in the job market on other immigrants and on native-born Hispanic workers, with whom they often compete.
Today, moreover, some U.S. industries have failed to invest in automation and productivity because of the opportunity for low-wage workers that immigration presents to them. Two noted agricultural economists, for instance, have estimated that the long-term price increases in produce would be very modest if American farmers had to do without immigrant workers because the cost of labor is such a small part of the retail price of produce, and because there are farming techniques and automated systems being used around the rest of the world that our farmers could adopt to replace some of the work now being done by immigrant farm hands.
You rarely hear many of these issues discussed in our debates today on immigration. If I had to characterize how the debate is carried out in the media, I would say that it's largely based on old facts and myths which have little to do with today's immigration and its social and economic impact on 21st Century America.
FP: Victor Hanson?
Hanson: Empirically-after living over a half-century in the San Joaquin Valley, the ground zero of illegal immigration from Mexico-I could confirm many of the statistics Steven and Heath present. But I would add two observations. One, what should one expect when millions arrive with the three strikes of no English, no legality, and not much education-at a time when America itself has lost confidence in its own traditions, and so asks very little of any immigrants, and has replaced the successful melting pot with the bankrupt and illiberal notion of a salad bowl?
And second, I think one tragedy of illegal immigration is that tens of thousands of Mexican immigrants do assimilate, integrate, and intermarry citizens-and their children succeed in the manner of traditional second-generation immigrants. BUT, that being said, the pool of illegal arrivals from Mexico and Latin America is so large that in recent years for every imigrant that perhaps makes the successful transition, another two arrive, the result being that we have a permanent pool of illegal immigrants that exhibit the sort of dependencies on the entitlement industry that we have come to expect in the American Southwest, and do not find upward mobility amid what are de facto growing apartheid communities
Close the borders-through a multifaceted effort to beef up security, fortify the easiest transits, fine employers who hire illegals, provide verifiable IDs- and return to the assimilationist model of the past, and by attrition many of our present problems will begin disappearing while we spend years squabbling over amnesties and deportations.
Macdonald: If I may make a macro-point: The fact that we are engaged in this debate at all represents a radical shake-up of the immigration status quo ('we' being not just my coauthors but the pundit class and reluctant politicians as well). For the first time in decades, the public has forced the political and media elites to respond to its dismay at illegal immigration. Though liberal and--more surprisingly--conservative opinion-makers are untroubled by illegal immigration's massive assault on the rule of law, the public still cares deeply whether our laws are respected or not. Moreover, people who live with the influx of poorly-educated, low-skilled illegal immigrants see the strains that this demographic wave puts on their communities.
The prominence that illegal immigration has had in the public debate over the last two years represents a triumph of democracy, in my view. After decades of being silenced, the popular will is finally being heard, amplified by the rise of the new media. And this change in the political climate is more than cosmetic. Though the Bush Administration had to be dragged kicking and screaming into its current enforcement policies, those policies are many magnitudes more aggressive than anything that has been seen for years--if still a fraction of what they need to be. Even more responsive have been local and state legislatures, which are forging ahead with efforts to stop rewarding and start penalizing immigration law-breakers, both American and foreign.
Are the political ferment and the ensuing government actions perfect? Of course not. As Steve has pointed out, the debate has largely failed to take up the question of what a more nationally beneficial immigration policy should look like. And it is still possible that after the Presidential election, politicians will go back to ignoring the public will. Still, I think that the public deserves credit for persisting in its demand that our national borders and immigration laws be respected.
Malanga: Speaking of the public, as Heather has, I think that immigration is a good issue on which voters can judge candidates, especially presidential candidates, because there is no such thing as a typical liberal or conservative, Democratic or Republican view of immigration. Most candidates who take a clear-cut position on immigration policy will offend some voters who are otherwise their supporters, and the degree to which candidates are willing to take a principled stand and risk alienating some supporters should tell us something about their political courage--or lack of it.
We saw this with Hillary Clinton and the issue of drivers' licenses for illegals. What caused her so much grief was her refusal to give a clear outline of her policy for so long. Although polls showed that most Americans objected to the idea, those Democrats who came out in favor of the plan by New York Gov. Eliot Spitzer, including Barack Obama, got in far less trouble that did Clinton, with her equivocating.
It's precisely because the immigration issue has created atypical political coalitions that some candidates, especially some of the frontrunning presidential candidates, have tried simply to dodge the issue. It's quite amazing, if you look over the position papers of most presidential candidates, the degree to which they either ignore immigration as an issue or treat it in the most cursory and superficial manner, as if it's merely a minor matter to most Americans. Most of the candidates--from Hillary Clinton on one hand to Mike Huckabee and Rudy Giuliani on the other--would probably just love to see the issue disappear, though it's the voters who are refusing to let that happen.
What is especially missing from the debate is any discussion of what our legal immigration policy should look like. We currently allow into the country some 1 million legal immigrants every year, so their impact is profound even without discussing illegal immigration. Moreover, most legal immigrants are coming on visas determined by family relations. Our current legal policy, in other words, has little to do with favoring immigrants who might actually make a contribution to our economy and our society. By contrast, in Australia, which has retooled its immigration policy in recent years, 70 percent of visas are skills-based. Australian officials have proclaimed that because of their immigration policy, they are winning the worldwide battle for talent.
We need to think about narrowing the range of people who can come here based on family relations, because there is little sense to our current policy. Today, we allow not only the spouses and minor children of those who are here legally to join them (which makes sense), but we also allow the adult parents and adult siblings of those who are already here to get in line for legal visas. Once those adults get here, of course, then a whole new set of family relations (the adult siblings of their spouses for instance) become eligible to immigrate, and many apply to get in line for visas. What this has done over the years is make the list of those seeking legal admission lengthy, and periodically the immigration advocates call for increasing our legal immigration limits to clear up the backlog of those waiting to get in. It's by this haphazard process that we've established our current legal immigration quotas, with about two-thirds of the 1 million coming on family relations visas. No other country lets in remotely as many people legally based on family relations.
In our book I outline a set of potential options for reforming our legal immigration system based on a policy that favors those with skills and restricts visas based on family relations to the spouses and minor children of legal immigrants. I discuss the ways that other countries which are immigrant magnets--Australia and Ireland, for instance--have reshaped their policies in recent years with the skilled immigrant in mind. There are a number of interesting things we could do, and it would be wonderful to have a debate about that, but right now, the candidates are ignoring the issue of our legal immigration system, and I guess they won't address it until the public requires them to.
Hanson: The issue should favor the Republican candidates who reflect the public's desire to close the borders first, and then worry over the other controversies later. Both Sens. Obama and Clinton are hostage to the identity politics wing of their party, and are pretty much for the status quo. Expect the volatile issue to break out in the campaigning for the general election in a way few expect.
As long as Republicans can't be pegged as the pro-mass-deportation party, they do much better. After weeding out very recent arrivals, felons, and those not working on public assistance, there are still several million illegal aliens who may not volunteer to return home or won't marry US citizens. These longtime working residents need to find some sort of mechanism to apply for a verifiable ID, and then citizenship while legal residents-but after paying a fine, learning English, and going through the citizenship process. Putting 7-8 million on buses en masse to Oaxaca won't work.
A few other observations: there is a great latent anger in the US that erupts once politicians--cf. the backlash over the 2006 May-Day demonstrations, or the recent immigration comprehensive reform package--treat the public as racists or Neanderthals for wanting their government to enforce the very laws they are entrusted with enforcing.
Second, there are entire issues touching on illegal immigration that are completely taboo subjects: the drop-out rates of second-generation children of illegal aliens; the racist attacks of alien gangs against blacks in Los Angeles; the costs of unfunded entitlements for illegal aliens such as health care and special remediation in schools and of incarceration of alien felons (over a half-billion dollars alone per annum in California.
Third, there is a complete pass given the fossilized and racialist Latino groups that oppose English as our official national language, buy into the La Voce de Aztlan nonsense, and still employ tribalist nomenclature like "La Raza" ("The Race") that would be tolerated for no other group.
Fourth, we pay far too little attention to the near bellicose stance of the Mexican government that systematically thwarts US law in desperation to keep billions in remittances, to keep open its export of those it can't or won't feed and house, and to foster a sympathetic expatriate community that loses its animus to Mexico the longer it is away from the motherland.
Fifth, there is silence about the stunning manner that illegal immigration harms American low-wage earners, in the most illiberal fashion.
Illegal immigration is one of the great moral issues of our times-it contaminates everyone involved, not surprising when federal law is systematically ignored as the Right seeks profit and the Left a collective political constituency. Illegal immigration is illiberal immigration.
FP: Heather MacDonald, Steven Malanga and Victor Hanson, thank you for joining Frontpage Symposium.
Posted by: Black Saint | July 14, 2008 6:21 PM | Report abuse
What Juliet Eilperin says about raids above contrast sharply with another report, which has McCain agreeing that the raids would stop:
http://lonewacko.com/blog/archives/007825.html
I don't trust MyDD, but I trust the WaPo *even less*.
Posted by: LonewackoDotCom | July 14, 2008 6:15 PM | Report abuse
McCain wants to go before hispanics without talking about immigration, give me a break!!! I don't know if he can go to the Jewish lobby without mentioning Israel and its security. We hispanics are people who deserve respect!!!
Posted by: carl29 | July 14, 2008 6:05 PM | Report abuse
Obama just got a wave of good polls as he leads in Colorado, Iowa and Michigan and the numbers are tight in... South Dakota?! Full roundup: http://campaigndiaries.com/2008/07/14/presidential-polls-obama-ahead-in-co-ia-and-mi-mccain-leads-in-la-its-tight-in-sd/
Posted by: Anonymous | July 14, 2008 5:34 PM | Report abuse
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