The Trail: A Daily Diary of Campaign 2008

McCain is NOT AMERICAN, so how THE HELL can he run for president.

McCain is old, cold and has no idea of how the economy should be dealt with, so what experience does he have. Oh yes, he went to war, but has he won any? No, his just an old man who is slowly loosing his bearings. So catch a wake up McCain.
OBAMA 08, all the way.

Without a first class tax paying base , the USA can not afford a first class military , or internal infrastructure . The republican machine love there money more than the country that gave that wealth to them , they lack ethics and integrity . There morals are skewed away from humanity !

To: MakeUsProud | July 23, 2008 7:20 PM

Well, you need to research this a little more. It's actually if you make under $250k per year, then Obama would give you a tax CUT. If you make over $250k year then most likely your taxes would go up.

For most of us non-super-rich folks:

McCain = Continued weaking of the economy, our national security, and the constitution. Continued strengthing of the extremists (Right wingers and the terrorists), and their ATM machine called "Lobbyists", Endless war on whoever they want by lying and calling them a "terrorist", and a Coward as POTUS who doesn't even stand up for what he believed in before he became a Karl Rove pawn.

Obama = Fiscal Responsibily, Less debt, Less Job Outsourcing overseas, Less outsourcing of government jobs, Stronger Economy, Less Dependence on Oil, Reduce the power of political lobbyists, War on REAL terrorists.

This is hilarious.

Obama = higher taxes + more regulation + abortion on demand +gun control + handouts to deadbeats + "free" healthcare

McCain = lower taxes + personal responsibility for your life + a chance of social security reform

Hmmm...but...I know...those terrible pro-business republicans...the same businesses that employ us....and make our investments work for us so we can retire on more than social security.

It's funny...I can't find a pro-Obama person that can name any of his accomplishments....it's all "he's energetic," or "he's a uniter," or "he's for change." Yup....he's not a uniter....and his cup of change (what's left in your cup after the tax man cometh) is not something I want.

If you make more than $30K per year...be wary of Obama. If you like a retirement on social security...vote for the man. If you believe the government is better at taking care of you than you taking care of you....vote OBAMA! If your union says OBAMA will make your paycheck increase and take it away from your CEO...vote OBAMA! You deserve it! Can't make it on your own? Vote OBAMA! Don't want to sacrifice for the things you want in life....VOTE OBAMA! Think your teacher should make $100K per year and still have students that can't read - VOTE OBAMA! Think guns kill and people don't...vote OBAMA! Think it's fine for DiCaprio, Gore, and Travolta to fly around in their personal jets to tell you how to run your life? VOTE OBAMA! Do it man! He'll fix it all! There won't be any more corruption in business (hell...get rid of business!). We need way more holidays and vacation and while we're at it...a government financed house! OBAMA CAN DO IT!!! He's gonna fix IRAQ!! I can't wait till he's President. I can't wait for the world to be right....just like it was before Adam and Eve. Minimum wage? Why not $20 per hour? Why not???

Seems a lot like socialism to me. And...I could care less if a bunch of socialists around the world are upset because we finally grew some balls and started going after terrorists and people that want US (yeah..even the libs) dead. Boo hoo. Get back to your vacation.

I'll tell you this...I have many issues with the current Republican party....but I shutter to think of what would have happened these last 8 years had Gore or Kerry won.

McCain has no Family Values:

McCain has a reputation as a politician who has difficulty keeping his pants zipped, according to Republican sources. He acknowledges that his adultery broke up his first marriage. His second wife Cindy, the daughter of a wealthy Budweiser beer distributor, was addicted to prescription narcotics and even stole hard drugs from a medical charity that she ran. McCain acknowledges that she didn't want him to run, and only agreed once he promised that she doesn't have to go to New Hampshire or Iowa.

McCain is a Founding Member of the Keating Five criminal group:

Back in the old days, defendants in famous trials got numbers -- the Chicago Eight, the Gang of Four, the Dave Clark Five, the Daytona 500. McCain was one of the "Keating Five," congressmen investigated on ethics charges for strenuously helping convicted racketeer Charles Keating after he gave them large campaign contributions and vacation trips.
Charles Keating was convicted of racketeering and fraud in both state and federal court after his Lincoln Savings & Loan collapsed, costing the taxpayers $3.4 billion. His convictions were overturned on technicalities; for example, the federal conviction was overturned because jurors had heard about his state conviction, and his state charges because Judge Lance Ito (yes, that judge) screwed up jury instructions. Neither court cleared him, and he faces new trials in both courts.)

Though he was not convicted of anything, McCain intervened on behalf of Charles Keating after Keating gave McCain at least $112,00 in contributions. In the mid-1980s, McCain made at least 9 trips on Keating's airplanes, and 3 of those were to Keating's luxurious retreat in the Bahamas. McCain's wife and father-in-law also were the largest investors (at $350,000) in a Keating shopping center; the Phoenix New Times called it a "sweetheart deal."

McCain has lost every war he has been in.

McCain was one of the lowest scoring military students ever.

McCain has one of the worst military records one could have - even with the support of his Admiral father. He knows how to act like his father, but has nothing to back it up with upstairs.

McCain has no business experience. NONE. He's never worked a real job. He knows very little about how america works.

McCain couldn't even read this website if he wanted to - he doesn't know how to use a computer. McCain is out of touch with america. He uses servants to attend to all his needs - he lives off his wife's and our money. Even when running for POTUS, he only works 3-4 days a week. Does he even want to be POTUS?!

McCain has only negative value to america as POTUS.

McCain's ever growing list of Flip Flops:

National Security Policy

1. McCain thought Bush's warrantless wiretap program circumvented the law; now he believes the opposite.

2. McCain insisted that everyone, even "terrible killers," "the worst kind of scum of humanity," and detainees at Guantanamo Bay, "deserve to have some adjudication of their cases," even if that means "releasing some of them." McCain now believes the opposite.

3. He opposed indefinite detention of terrorist suspects. When the Supreme Court reached the same conclusion, he called it "one of the worst decisions in the history of this country."

4. In February, McCain reversed course on prohibiting waterboarding.

5. McCain favored closing the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay before he was against it.

6. When Barack Obama talked about going after terrorists in Pakistani mountains with Predators, McCain criticized him for it. He's since come to the opposite conclusion.

Foreign Policy

7. McCain was for kicking Russia out of the G8 before he was against it.

8. McCain supported moving "toward normalization of relations" with Cuba. Now he believes the opposite.

9. McCain believed the United States should engage in diplomacy with Hamas. Now he believes the opposite.

10. McCain believed the United States should engage in diplomacy with Syria. Now he believes the opposite.

11. McCain is both for and against a "rogue state rollback" as a focus of his foreign policy vision.

12. McCain used to champion the Law of the Sea convention, even volunteering to testify on the treaty's behalf before a Senate committee. Now he opposes it.

13. McCain was against divestment from South Africa before he was for it.

Military Policy

14. McCain recently claimed that he was the "greatest critic" of Rumsfeld's failed Iraq policy. In December 2003, McCain praised the same strategy as "a mission accomplished." In March 2004, he said, "I'm confident we're on the right course." In December 2005, he said, "Overall, I think a year from now, we will have made a fair amount of progress if we stay the course."

15. McCain has changed his mind about a long-term U.S. military presence in Iraq on multiple occasions, concluding, on multiple occasions, that a Korea-like presence is both a good idea and a bad idea.

16. McCain said before the war in Iraq, "We will win this conflict. We will win it easily." Four years later, McCain said he knew all along that the war in Iraq war was "probably going to be long and hard and tough."

17. McCain has repeatedly said it's a dangerous mistake to tell the "enemy" when U.S. troops would be out of Iraq. In May, McCain announced that most American troops would be home from Iraq by 2013.

18. McCain was against expanding the GI Bill before he was for it.

Domestic Policy

19. McCain defended "privatizing" Social Security. Now he says he's against privatization (though he actually still supports it.)

20. McCain wanted to change the Republican Party platform to protect abortion rights in cases of rape and incest. Now he doesn't.

21. McCain supported storing spent nuclear fuel at Yucca Mountain in Nevada. Now he believes the opposite.

22. He argued that the NRA should not have a role in the Republican Party's policy making. Now he believes the opposite.

23. In 1998, he championed raising cigarette taxes to fund programs to cut underage smoking, insisting that it would prevent illnesses and provide resources for public health programs. Now, McCain opposes a $0.61-per-pack tax increase, won't commit to supporting a regulation bill he's co-sponsoring, and has hired Philip Morris' former lobbyist as his senior campaign adviser.

24. McCain is both for and against earmarks for Arizona.

25. McCain's first mortgage plan was premised on the notion that homeowners facing foreclosure shouldn't be "rewarded" for acting "irresponsibly." His second mortgage plan took largely the opposite position.

26. McCain went from saying gay marriage should be allowed, to saying gay marriage shouldn't be allowed.

27. McCain opposed a holiday to honor Martin Luther King Jr. before he supported it.

28. McCain was anti-ethanol. Now he's pro-ethanol.

29. McCain was both for and against state promotion of the Confederate flag.

30. In 2005, McCain endorsed intelligent design creationism, a year later he said the opposite, and a few months after that, he was both for and against creationism at the same time.

Economic Policy

31. McCain was against Bush's tax cuts for the very wealthy before he was for them.

32. John McCain initially argued that economics is not an area of expertise for him, saying, "I'm going to be honest: I know a lot less about economics than I do about military and foreign policy issues; I still need to be educated," and "The issue of economics is not something I've understood as well as I should." He now falsely denies ever having made these remarks and insists that he has a "very strong" understanding of economics.

33. McCain vowed, if elected, to balance the federal budget by the end of his first term. Soon after, he decided he would no longer even try to reach that goal. And soon after that, McCain abandoned his second position and went back to his first.

34. McCain said in 2005 that he opposed the tax cuts because they were "too tilted to the wealthy." By 2007, he denied ever having said this, and falsely argued that he opposed the cuts because of increased government spending.

35. McCain thought the estate tax was perfectly fair. Now he believes the opposite.

36. McCain pledged in February 2008 that he would not, under any circumstances, raise taxes. Specifically, McCain was asked if he is a "'read my lips' candidate, no new taxes, no matter what?" referring to George H.W. Bush's 1988 pledge. "No new taxes," McCain responded. Two weeks later, McCain said, "I'm not making a 'read my lips' statement, in that I will not raise taxes."

37. McCain has changed his entire economic worldview on multiple occasions.

38. McCain believes Americans are both better and worse off economically than they were before Bush took office.

Energy Policy

39. McCain supported the moratorium on coastal drilling; now he's against it.

40. McCain recently announced his strong opposition to a windfall tax on oil company profits. Three weeks earlier, he was perfectly comfortable with the idea.

41. McCain endorsed a cap-and-trade policy with a mandatory emissions cap. In mid-June, McCain announced he wants the caps to be voluntary.

42. McCain explained his belief that a temporary suspension of the federal gas tax would provide an immediate economic stimulus. Shortly thereafter, he argued the exact opposite.

43. McCain supported the Lieberman/Warner legislation to combat global warming. Now he doesn't.

Immigration Policy

44. McCain was a co-sponsor of the DREAM Act, which would grant legal status to illegal immigrants' kids who graduate from high school. Now he's against it.

45. On immigration policy in general, McCain announced in February 2008 that he would vote against his own bill.

46. In April, McCain promised voters that he would secure the borders "before proceeding to other reform measures." Two months later, he abandoned his public pledge, pretended that he'd never made the promise in the first place, and vowed that a comprehensive immigration reform policy has always been, and would always be, his "top priority."

Judicial Policy and the Rule of Law

47. McCain said he would "not impose a litmus test on any nominee." He used to promise the opposite.

48. McCain believes the telecoms should be forced to explain their role in the administration's warrantless surveillance program as a condition for retroactive immunity. He used to believe the opposite.

49. McCain went from saying he would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade to saying the exact opposite.

Campaign, Ethics, and Lobbying Reform

50. McCain supported his own lobbying-reform legislation from 1997. Now he doesn't.

51. In 2006, McCain sponsored legislation to require grassroots lobbying coalitions to reveal their financial donors. In 2007, after receiving "feedback" on the proposal, McCain told far-right activist groups that he opposes his own measure.

52. McCain supported a campaign-finance bill, which bore his name, on strengthening the public-financing system. In June 2007, he abandoned his own legislation.

Politics and Associations

53. McCain wanted political support from radical televangelist John Hagee. Now he doesn't.

54. McCain wanted political support from radical televangelist Rod Parsley. Now he doesn't.

55. McCain says he considered and did not consider joining John Kerry's Democratic ticket in 2004.

56. McCain is both for and against attacking Barack Obama over his former pastor at his former church.

57. McCain criticized TV preacher Jerry Falwell as "an agent of intolerance" in 2002, but then decided to cozy up to the man who said Americans "deserved" the 9/11 attacks.

58. In 2000, McCain accused Texas businessmen Sam and Charles Wyly of being corrupt, spending "dirty money" to help finance Bush's presidential campaign. McCain not only filed a complaint against the Wylys for allegedly violating campaign finance law, he also lashed out at them publicly. In April, McCain reached out to the Wylys for support.

59. McCain was against presidential candidates campaigning at Bob Jones University before he was for it.

60. McCain decided in 2000 that he didn't want anything to do with former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, believing he "would taint the image of the 'Straight Talk Express.'" Kissinger is now the honorary co-chair for his presidential campaign in New York.

61. McCain believed powerful right-wing activist/lobbyist Grover Norquist was "corrupt, a shill for dictators, and (with just a dose of sarcasm) Jack Abramoff's gay lover." McCain now considers Norquist a key political ally.

RE TIM

This note is overkill, but it needs to be posted, in case others try to discuss something with Tim.

Tim is an Obama supporter who posts erroneous and misleading information in favor of Obama. Examples are throughout this forum, the last one on July 23, 2008 2:12 PM. He does not admit his errors, and if you address him he often sneaks replies in at the bottom of posts to others. Decent and honest discussion with him is impossible, which is fairly typical of Obama supporters.

For the editorial editor of the NYT, it isn't a love, Obama is just the teacher's pet, posting his writing on the board for everyone to see, but sending McCain's paper back, asking for a rewrite.

Tim said:
" BTW, Billw, i've already proved you wrong, you can cry about facts, but in the end my facts are real and yours are opinion."

Your behavior is fairly typical of Obama supporters. You deny misbehavior. You did not disprove a single fact I gave, and now you project, claiming I am guilty of your error. Here is proof of your misinformation, if not untruth:

You said here at 3:18 7-22-08:
" Ayers is a professor of English who lives down the street from him. How is that condoning terrorist? Ayers served his punishment and is now no longer a terrorist, fact busted."

Karl said here at 6:05 7-22-08
"Ayers is admitantly an Unrepentant Terrorist who does not regret his domestic bombings as a weatherman and wishes he would have done more. "

Proof (by me):
" Obama protégé William Ayers was a leader in the Weather Underground movement who never served a day in jail, and told the New York Times on September 11, 2001(!!!) that he never regretted personally bombing government buildings and wished he had done more: ''I don't regret setting bombs,'' Bill Ayers said on 9/11. ''I feel we didn't do enough.'' Would he do it again? "I would not discount the possibility," Ayers told the Times. ""

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/fact-checker/2008/02/obamas_weatherman_connection.html

-------

"Ayres, a unrepentant terrorist, still harbors resentment toward the United States. Famously, on 9-11 he penned an Op-Ed in the New York Times in which he stated that he not only did not regret the terrorist bombings he participated in, but he only WISHED he had DONE MORE."

http://www.hinzsightreport.com/2008/...cacion-es.html

There are thousands of references saying the same. Check Google.

I wish the media would have had a "Special News Bulletin" for when Obama arrived in Afganistan for the 1st time in his life! I can hear the reporters say "An historic moment for the freshman senator, watch as he places his first step on Afgan Soil!" "One step for Obama, One Giant step for his inexperience!"

Seriously I am planning a 12 Day vacation for myself to visit each country he did. BUT! I will stay in each country for 2 days! Thus I will have more experience than Obama by 200%!

As I watch the news I realize that the American Media has been comprimised...

I NEVER had a Obatomy!

McChange 08' "Because there is No other Solution for America"
_____________________

So you measure experience by how long you spend in a country, and not who you talk to while you are there?

I submit that once this trip is over, OBAMA will have more foreign experience then John McCain. Has McCain talked in private with all the leaders that Obama will be talking too? I think not.

Sure, if you count walking around a country as "have experience in foreign affairs" with that country then there are alot of people better suited for presidency then both McCain or Obama. The fact that Obama has the power to talk to all the important people along the way makes him a stronger diplomat.

(BTW, Billw, i've already proved you wrong, you can cry about facts, but in the end my facts are real and yours are opinion.)

I wish the media would have had a "Special News Bulletin" for when Obama arrived in Afganistan for the 1st time in his life! I can hear the reporters say "An historic moment for the freshman senator, watch as he places his first step on Afgan Soil!" "One step for Obama, One Giant step for his inexperience!"

Seriously I am planning a 12 Day vacation for myself to visit each country he did. BUT! I will stay in each country for 2 days! Thus I will have more experience than Obama by 200%!

As I watch the news I realize that the American Media has been comprimised...

I NEVER had a Obatomy!

McChange 08' "Because there is No other Solution for America"

"Is this going to be the first presidential election with no debates. I want McCain on TV in front of the world. He won't do it because he's scared."

WOW!! I guess the fact that McCain has BEGGED Obama for debates mean noting when you think facts are just diversions.
Come back when you can speak without forked tongue, Red Man.

This makes John McCain and the Republicans look envious, childish, desperate, and just plain silly. Why post videos showing how much the media covers Obama?? What's the point... to further highlight how no one is paying attention to McCain? Perhaps he wants to alienate the press even more? Who runs this campaign? Complete idiots!

The liberal media is so stupid!
They allowed George Bush to lie to americans about the war in Iraq and did not have the reason to do their duty and responsibility to question his actions.

The liberal media is so stupid!
They are now allowing Barack Hussein to lie to americans about his lack of experience on issues that are critical for America and once again they are failing to do their duty and be responsible by ask the hard questions, so that americans get to know the true Barack Hussein.

The liberal media is so stupid!
They are responsible for the situation our country is in and they should all be held accountable for it.

The liberal media is so stupid!
They are more interested in the excitement of watching a monkey that can sing, dance and speak English well, than being responsible and doing their job.

Shame on you liberal media!

If McCain wants more attention than the news media should air a special on The Charles Keating Savings and Loan scandal in which McCain fronted for his benefactor who was busy defrauding thousands of retired people of their life's savings.

McCain never apologized, but just said, " I showed poor judgment." What an understatement. He has shown poor judgment his whole life. He is not to be trusted in matters of war or peace.

His bragging about " I know how to win wars." shoud be a wake up call to concerned citizens. Don't place this angry, irritable, and forgetful man anywhere near a nuclear button. He is simply a very dangerous person- and a liar.

Posted by: Elizabeth
--------------------
The ONLY war in which McCain participated was the VietNam War. He was a pilot, so he does not have the ground experience not does have have a war command experience. He bombed his target and circled back around low and slow when he sould have returned to his home base. What was his purpose for returning to the scene had just attacked? He was shot down and became a POW. That is the extent of McCain's War experience!! He seems to think this is what it takes to make a warrior and a president. He is absolutely telling a fairytale when he says he knows how to win wars!! Hey, if McCain know how to win wars, why have't we won the Iraq War?? Isn't it interesting how he keeps bringing his being shot down and being a POW, over and over and over again? Maybe John McCain is suffering from DELAYED Severe Post Stress Disorder 35-40 years after the fact?? I am serious! SPSD is an awful thing to suffer. John McCain has not fought a war to its conclusion nor has he won a war. He is deluding himself and THINKS he is deluding us; he is WRONG!!

McCain MOCKED and CRITICIZED Senator Obama because he had only been to Iraq once before and had not been to Afghanistan and "MOCKED" him to go. Senator Obama decided to make a trip to these countries and several others as well. Senator Obama is making news and the media are reporting it while McCain was riding a golf cart with Bush Senior. Big news vs hohum news! McCain should have known that this trip by Senator Obama is a "make history" event and should not be so whiney and petty. You know, I wonder if this is what Gramm was talking about, remember he came back and said he wasn't talking about the people but of the leaders having become whiners. Maybe he got sick and tired of hearing McCain Whine to him!! And as a result Gramm was venting to all of us. "I hear all this whining....." Little did we know, it was McCain's whining that got to him!!

Duh.

Of course the media covers Obama more than they do McCain - Obama's more interesting: there's more substance to Obama.

If McCain wants similar treatment, he could try being more interesting, instead of just mumbling the meandering maxims of Bush/Cheney and their mindless minions.

We're tired of Bush/Cheney, and we won't pay much attention to a man who used to be a "maverick," but is now just a right-wing hack who abandoned his values - as well as his honesty, for the sake of his party's nomination. Nobody likes prostitution.

The only thing McCain seems to do now is complain about Obama. When that doesn't work, he whines about the press.

Maybe he could try being interesting, instead, like he used to be.

Maybe he could actually DO SOMETHING. If he remembers how.

Fat chance. He is what he is.

The liberal media is so stupid!
They allowed George Bush to lie to americans about the war in Iraq and did not have the reason to do their duty and responsibility to question his actions.

The liberal media is so stupid!
They are now allowing Barack Hussein to lie to americans about his lack of experience on issues that are critical for America and once again they are failing to do their duty and be responsible by ask the hard questions, so that americans get to know the true Barack Hussein.

The liberal media is so stupid!
They are responsible for the situation our country is in and they should all be held accountable for it.

The liberal media is so stupid!
They are more interested in the excitement of watching a monkey that can sing, dance and speak English well, than being responsible and doing their job.

Shame on you liberal media!

Gator-ron,

Thanks for your post. You're a nice person, and your arguments are dang solid and true. Yes, the stock market has gone down under Bush. There are a number of reasons for that a lot of which aren't Bush's fault but definitely some are.

I guess what it comes down to is that the Democrats are going to have the House and Senate with much stronger numbers come January. I liked Clinton's second term a lot better than his first. I like the balance of powers thing and I know that the Democrats are due judicial nominees which probably wouldn't happen under McCain but I doubt McCain would appoint anyone that isn't a moderate like a Kennedy or the former Justice O' Conner (granted a lot of people tend to say even they are center right but they tended to be pretty fair).

It would worry me to have a Democratic Legislative and Executive at the same time. Bill Clinton didn't do a bad job when that happened but I think Senator Obama is left-leaning because if he's already talking about tax increases during the campaign, he will definitely implement more.

The Republicans messed up big time when they had the House, Senate and Presidency under Bush (current). McCain is often called a Maverick when referred to Republicans he is against a lot of things that traditional Republicans are for such as immigration reform and a strong fight against global warming.

No offense to Democrats, but they would mess up just like the Republicans did with Senator Obama as President. I think that there are going to be many things to gain with McCain as president and a Democratic House and Senate. McCain moreso than Obama is willing to reach across the isle (even though Obama begs to differ) his voting record is a bit to the left than former President Clinton ever was.

I got off topic a few times, but what I was trying to get at is that McCain would definitely work with Democrats in a much more effective way than Bush is, and if Obama were President with a almost DEFINITE House and Senate Democratic majority the country would move too much to the left. Our current social programs need to be saved before we can introduce new ones as big as universal health care.

That is not to say that I'm not all that happy with either McCain introducing tax breaks or Obama introducing increased spending during times of deficits. Either guy gets elected and the economy is going to improve from the current situation because we'll be in an upturn by then.

ROFL Instead of McCain "Commenting" he's "Mocking". Obama's "flip flops" are "reversals" in the main stream media. Yes media everyone knows who you're in bed with.
So much for campaign financing. huh? It must be nice to know that Obama can get free 24/7 info commercials from the media. But how else could an empty suit rise to the top.

Is it unreasonable to expect that comments be to the point? The 60 (!) points posted by an unknown contributor have nothing to do with this dialogue, of how McCain is treated by the media. They're just campaign material attacking McCain and do not speak to the issue. There is an increasing frequency of this kind of thing, of partisans posting ad hominem poltical material.

Tim:

You are poorly educated in defending your lord and god Obama. You obviously did not take lessons from Obama, the princess of fairy tales.

Obama admited he did not hold his hand over his heart during that national anthem because his kenyan father taught him that way. Unless he changed his story since that initial interview to counter growing criticism over it...

Also Ayers is admitantly an Unrepentant Terrorist who does not regret his domestic bombings as a weatherman and wishes he would have done more. Obama kicked off his senate campaign at this mans home! He is more than just some guy he served on a board with.... Obama in his book purposely sought out these types of people in College and befriended them.

I would continue but I have to go.

although i'm not in favor of either candidate, i'm particularly shocked at how people are so defensive of obama. it's become a sort of taboo to even question his credentials. but the truth is that we are bypassing this very important issue. i would give him a chance, but in about 10 years. no one really knows who this obama is. he's only been in the senate for a few years recently, most of which were spent campaigning. many of his most formative years were spent overseas in another country. his now disgraced religious "mentor" sounds like a twin of louis farrakhan. who really knows much of anything about him? serving in the illinois senate will not give anyone the experience to lead a country with so many complicated international issues going on. i would give him a few more terms in the US senate to see where this guy is truly leaning since everyone can talk--a voting record is the best thing we've got to guage reality

Posted by: nine2ten
-------------------
Senator is highly aware and knowledgeable of the international issues happening; McCain is too busy attacking the young senator to pay attention of international issues happening; he'd rather sit back and complain about the media not giving him enough coverage! What a childish and petty old man!!

Senator Obama served in the Illinois Senate for eight(8) years and two years in the U.S. Senate for approximately two years. During his time in the U.S. Senate he authored and sponsored several bills which have become law. Go to his Senate records, there is a HUGE list of legislation Senator Obama was aughored, coauthored and sponsored/cosponsored. Please do not engage in slander and lies to make yourself look "wise", it only makes you look ignorant and uninformed. Senator Obama is a brilliant man of great vision,, is a great leader and steward of his financial issues---BEST campaign and BEST fundraiser in U.S. History! Also BEST fundraising tools EVER! The man is genuine and is a man of integrity, honesty, vision, wisdom, and is gifted with extraordinary oratory skills! Of course, you and others of your ilk refuse to remove your blinders; you prefer to hold on to your sick opinions.

Tim:

RE your last post, you are shouting, saying a picture doesn't prove anything, and you say you didn't misquote me, in reply to me saying you erased my comment.
Clearly you have lost it, and I submit also the argument. Further proof:

You erase my comments and then say people can read the post and decide who's right.

You do not admit your error where you claim I cited "experience", when I never mentioned the word.

You claim I defended McCain when all I said was "he is the lesser of two "evils".

You distract from the discussion by separate posting claiming I'll be the only one voting for McCain.

Tim, what say you have a good day, if you can after all your blunders here.

"He just left Iraq afret discussing early withdrawal with Malaki (sp?). Making headlines with what people want - out of Iraq."

And? He NEVER said that he "wants to take credit for the troop surge working." even after it worked he said that he wouldn't support it if he was asked again withthe same facts. Hindsight is 20/20.

"Nope, he was completely relaxed and hands over the crotch."

So i guess you were there, and saw it first person, because you obviously didn't take the picture for face value. AND WHO CARE ANYWAY? one picture with resonable doubt doesn't prove anything!

***
(billw)"He wants a huge stadium for his acceptance speech."

(tim)""...because so many people support him that he needs a huge venue to let the average person get the chance to see him, smart idea actually.""

(billw)No candidate did this before. Enough said.

"You are way wrong. Check the voting records from the past. The point? You erased my comment. A cheap shot."

So here is the full quote, and as you can see, i didn't misquote you. Obama has brought more new voters to the any other president. Which candidate brought more new voters?

***

"So you don't admit your errors. The conversation is nearing an end with you."

Ignorance is bliss i guess, as long as you think I am wrong that is good enough for you.

I made the decision to only paste your new quotes, anyone that wants the full story can just scroll down. In your mind that means I lose the debate. Whatever kid, think what you want too.

Just make sure to read the posts from the other 10 people who think you are a complete moron. You obviously can't win a debate with intellegence, try using your sh*t throughing on me.

Tim said:

" If these comments are anything like the actual GE turnout. Billw will be the only person voting for McCain. Landslide Obama by 30% woohoo! "

Hey Tim... trying to distract fron the other subject where you lost your butt?

Tim said:

"Look i'm Billw:
Blah Blah Blah Wright
Blah Blah Blah Ayers
Blah Blah Blah Media
Blah Blah Blah Obama sucks "

Hey, you didn't like my limerick? OK, here's another for you.

Now if Obama is not your man,
His supporters all have this plan.
They'll jump in the fray
You're a racist they say,
While yelling "oh yes we can".

Rice:
" Can you refute the fact that McCain is brainwashed and will surrender to Russia if he wins the election? "

Typical Obama supporter comment.

Tim:

"Which crooks and terrorists supported McCain?"

""look up McCains "old friend" Mr. Liddy. Served 4 years in prison.""

OK, I'll take your word.

--------

"Now that the "surge" is working to allow pullout, he wants to be seen as the one responsible for getting the troops out early."

"Show me the where Obama said he "wants to be seen as the one responsible for getting the troops out early." Otherwise, you facts are wrong."

He just left Iraq afret discussing early withdrawal with Malaki (sp?). Making headlines with what people want - out of Iraq.

--------

"And millions have seen him with his hand *not* over his heart. You're outnumbered and busted yourself."

""Are you referring to the picture that was taken before he had the chance to put his hand over his heart? If so you are right, Obama's hands are slower then the flash of a camera, otherwise your facts are wrong.""

Nope, he was completely relaxed and hands over the crotch.

------------

"So if the devil reforms, any former association with is OK. This is BS."

""This is about people, not fairy tale creatures. If a person serves his prison term for a crime, that person has payed his dept to society. Read the constitution, it will back me up on this one. Your facts = wrong again.""

------------

Not deserving a response without my original statement being shown which you deleted, to your advantage. If you want to discuss further, then stop being deceitful.
It does not behove you at all...

--------

"Small town people" is different from saying "people", as he colud have. The word "small" is the key. Another good try."

""Small town people means, duh, 'people from a small town.' Not small people in a town. How is this an insult? You = wrong.""

Now *that's* really an opinion. Your's, to be exact.

---------

"No candidate did this before. Enough said."

""You are right here, no other candidate ever had this much support by the common man that he would need to fill up a stadium to talk to them all. Obama nice to listen too. And your point here was?""

You are way wrong. Check the voting records from the past. The point? You erased my comment. A cheap shot.

-----------

"I did not mention "inexperienced". Your efforts are *really* down the tube now."

""Half of McCain supporters think Obama has no experience. At least he is trying. I think McCain has no experience, and he likes it that way.""

So you don't admit your errors. The conversation is nearing an end with you.

------------

You should just give up. It is obvious to anyone who read both of our posts that you do not know what you are talking about.

Wow!!! You say this after erasing *my* postings. How deceptive can you get?

-----------

""I am pretty sure that all of your "facts" have been proven wrong or trivial in the debate of "Obama verse McCain." Good game though, someone had to lose. I'm glad that my team's leader is young, smart, and a good leader. It has to suck to try and defend McCain, he is full of errors and missteps.""

My *sole* defense of McCain was that he is the lesser of two "evils". Hardly a defense. So far as losing, it is clear you have lost all on your own, even without much help from me. Better luck next time, but I doubt it will occur with me.

McCain's growing list of Flip Flops:

National Security Policy

1. McCain thought Bush's warrantless wiretap program circumvented the law; now he believes the opposite.

2. McCain insisted that everyone, even "terrible killers," "the worst kind of scum of humanity," and detainees at Guantanamo Bay, "deserve to have some adjudication of their cases," even if that means "releasing some of them." McCain now believes the opposite.

3. He opposed indefinite detention of terrorist suspects. When the Supreme Court reached the same conclusion, he called it "one of the worst decisions in the history of this country."

4. In February, McCain reversed course on prohibiting waterboarding.

5. McCain favored closing the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay before he was against it.

6. When Barack Obama talked about going after terrorists in Pakistani mountains with Predators, McCain criticized him for it. He's since come to the opposite conclusion.

Foreign Policy

7. McCain was for kicking Russia out of the G8 before he was against it.

8. McCain supported moving "toward normalization of relations" with Cuba. Now he believes the opposite.

9. McCain believed the United States should engage in diplomacy with Hamas. Now he believes the opposite.

10. McCain believed the United States should engage in diplomacy with Syria. Now he believes the opposite.

11. McCain is both for and against a "rogue state rollback" as a focus of his foreign policy vision.

12. McCain used to champion the Law of the Sea convention, even volunteering to testify on the treaty's behalf before a Senate committee. Now he opposes it.

13. McCain was against divestment from South Africa before he was for it.

Military Policy

14. McCain recently claimed that he was the "greatest critic" of Rumsfeld's failed Iraq policy. In December 2003, McCain praised the same strategy as "a mission accomplished." In March 2004, he said, "I'm confident we're on the right course." In December 2005, he said, "Overall, I think a year from now, we will have made a fair amount of progress if we stay the course."

15. McCain has changed his mind about a long-term U.S. military presence in Iraq on multiple occasions, concluding, on multiple occasions, that a Korea-like presence is both a good idea and a bad idea.

16. McCain said before the war in Iraq, "We will win this conflict. We will win it easily." Four years later, McCain said he knew all along that the war in Iraq war was "probably going to be long and hard and tough."

17. McCain has repeatedly said it's a dangerous mistake to tell the "enemy" when U.S. troops would be out of Iraq. In May, McCain announced that most American troops would be home from Iraq by 2013.

18. McCain was against expanding the GI Bill before he was for it.

Domestic Policy

19. McCain defended "privatizing" Social Security. Now he says he's against privatization (though he actually still supports it.)

20. McCain wanted to change the Republican Party platform to protect abortion rights in cases of rape and incest. Now he doesn't.

21. McCain supported storing spent nuclear fuel at Yucca Mountain in Nevada. Now he believes the opposite.

22. He argued that the NRA should not have a role in the Republican Party's policy making. Now he believes the opposite.

23. In 1998, he championed raising cigarette taxes to fund programs to cut underage smoking, insisting that it would prevent illnesses and provide resources for public health programs. Now, McCain opposes a $0.61-per-pack tax increase, won't commit to supporting a regulation bill he's co-sponsoring, and has hired Philip Morris' former lobbyist as his senior campaign adviser.

24. McCain is both for and against earmarks for Arizona.

25. McCain's first mortgage plan was premised on the notion that homeowners facing foreclosure shouldn't be "rewarded" for acting "irresponsibly." His second mortgage plan took largely the opposite position.

26. McCain went from saying gay marriage should be allowed, to saying gay marriage shouldn't be allowed.

27. McCain opposed a holiday to honor Martin Luther King Jr. before he supported it.

28. McCain was anti-ethanol. Now he's pro-ethanol.

29. McCain was both for and against state promotion of the Confederate flag.

30. In 2005, McCain endorsed intelligent design creationism, a year later he said the opposite, and a few months after that, he was both for and against creationism at the same time.

Economic Policy

31. McCain was against Bush's tax cuts for the very wealthy before he was for them.

32. John McCain initially argued that economics is not an area of expertise for him, saying, "I'm going to be honest: I know a lot less about economics than I do about military and foreign policy issues; I still need to be educated," and "The issue of economics is not something I've understood as well as I should." He now falsely denies ever having made these remarks and insists that he has a "very strong" understanding of economics.

33. McCain vowed, if elected, to balance the federal budget by the end of his first term. Soon after, he decided he would no longer even try to reach that goal. And soon after that, McCain abandoned his second position and went back to his first.

34. McCain said in 2005 that he opposed the tax cuts because they were "too tilted to the wealthy." By 2007, he denied ever having said this, and falsely argued that he opposed the cuts because of increased government spending.

35. McCain thought the estate tax was perfectly fair. Now he believes the opposite.

36. McCain pledged in February 2008 that he would not, under any circumstances, raise taxes. Specifically, McCain was asked if he is a "'read my lips' candidate, no new taxes, no matter what?" referring to George H.W. Bush's 1988 pledge. "No new taxes," McCain responded. Two weeks later, McCain said, "I'm not making a 'read my lips' statement, in that I will not raise taxes."

37. McCain has changed his entire economic worldview on multiple occasions.

38. McCain believes Americans are both better and worse off economically than they were before Bush took office.

Energy Policy

39. McCain supported the moratorium on coastal drilling; now he's against it.

40. McCain recently announced his strong opposition to a windfall tax on oil company profits. Three weeks earlier, he was perfectly comfortable with the idea.

41. McCain endorsed a cap-and-trade policy with a mandatory emissions cap. In mid-June, McCain announced he wants the caps to be voluntary.

42. McCain explained his belief that a temporary suspension of the federal gas tax would provide an immediate economic stimulus. Shortly thereafter, he argued the exact opposite.

43. McCain supported the Lieberman/Warner legislation to combat global warming. Now he doesn't.

Immigration Policy

44. McCain was a co-sponsor of the DREAM Act, which would grant legal status to illegal immigrants' kids who graduate from high school. Now he's against it.

45. On immigration policy in general, McCain announced in February 2008 that he would vote against his own bill.

46. In April, McCain promised voters that he would secure the borders "before proceeding to other reform measures." Two months later, he abandoned his public pledge, pretended that he'd never made the promise in the first place, and vowed that a comprehensive immigration reform policy has always been, and would always be, his "top priority."

Judicial Policy and the Rule of Law

47. McCain said he would "not impose a litmus test on any nominee." He used to promise the opposite.

48. McCain believes the telecoms should be forced to explain their role in the administration's warrantless surveillance program as a condition for retroactive immunity. He used to believe the opposite.

49. McCain went from saying he would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade to saying the exact opposite.

Campaign, Ethics, and Lobbying Reform

50. McCain supported his own lobbying-reform legislation from 1997. Now he doesn't.

51. In 2006, McCain sponsored legislation to require grassroots lobbying coalitions to reveal their financial donors. In 2007, after receiving "feedback" on the proposal, McCain told far-right activist groups that he opposes his own measure.

52. McCain supported a campaign-finance bill, which bore his name, on strengthening the public-financing system. In June 2007, he abandoned his own legislation.

Politics and Associations

53. McCain wanted political support from radical televangelist John Hagee. Now he doesn't.

54. McCain wanted political support from radical televangelist Rod Parsley. Now he doesn't.

55. McCain says he considered and did not consider joining John Kerry's Democratic ticket in 2004.

56. McCain is both for and against attacking Barack Obama over his former pastor at his former church.

57. McCain criticized TV preacher Jerry Falwell as "an agent of intolerance" in 2002, but then decided to cozy up to the man who said Americans "deserved" the 9/11 attacks.

58. In 2000, McCain accused Texas businessmen Sam and Charles Wyly of being corrupt, spending "dirty money" to help finance Bush's presidential campaign. McCain not only filed a complaint against the Wylys for allegedly violating campaign finance law, he also lashed out at them publicly. In April, McCain reached out to the Wylys for support.

59. McCain was against presidential candidates campaigning at Bob Jones University before he was for it.

60. McCain decided in 2000 that he didn't want anything to do with former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, believing he "would taint the image of the 'Straight Talk Express.'" Kissinger is now the honorary co-chair for his presidential campaign in New York.

61. McCain believed powerful right-wing activist/lobbyist Grover Norquist was "corrupt, a shill for dictators, and (with just a dose of sarcasm) Jack Abramoff's gay lover." McCain now considers Norquist a key political ally.

If these comments are anything like the actual GE turnout. Billw will be the only person voting for McCain. Landslide Obama by 30% woohoo!

Winning a war takes a fair amount of strategy, building consensus between varying factions, allies and political parties. It also takes the ability to communicate the goals, measure those goals, and know when the goals have been reached.

In today's world, wars are not isolated events. They are global events with global politics involved.

So it hit me that a campaign is a war and requires all the same stuff.

If McCain is really so good at war, why is he so bad at this one?

Because he is.

Look i'm Billw:

Blah Blah Blah Wright
Blah Blah Blah Ayers
Blah Blah Blah Media
Blah Blah Blah Obama sucks

McCain is good because...Um....He did that thing and.....he supported...Um....nevermind, let me through more sh*t at Obama.

Billw,

Can you refute the fact that McCain is brainwashed and will surrender to Russia if he wins the election?

I think not, as it is clearly the truth!

billw,

"You are welcome to try to refute any fact I mentioned. You cannot, so your words mean nothing. Note Tim tried this and failed."

actually i had an issue witht he work computer, i had wrote a 20 min rebuttle and got and error. So i quickly rewrote it and sent it again. You might want to scroll back a bit, i trashed your statements.

From David Brock's book Free Ride:

"The press loves McCain. We're his base."
--Chris Matthews, MSNBC

"John McCain is clearly the Washington media's favorite Republican." --Brit Hume, Fox News

"The media, of course, loves John McCain because it seems like he's back to the old John McCain." --David Shuster, MSNBC

"I think every last one of them [reporters] would move to Massachusetts and marry John McCain if they could."
--Joe Scarborough, MSNBC

No-name said:
"You may not literally used a computer to remove the nonsense you publish but it is all material that comes from unreliable sources. You are certainly entitled to do that but I think you possess the intelligence to do something more with you life than publish material of this nature. If you feel you must defend your propaganda as facts, by all means continue to do so. I will give you the last word on that."

You are welcome to try to refute any fact I mentioned. You cannot, so your words mean nothing. Note Tim tried this and failed.

McCain's ever growing list of Flip Flops:

National Security Policy

1. McCain thought Bush's warrantless wiretap program circumvented the law; now he believes the opposite.

2. McCain insisted that everyone, even "terrible killers," "the worst kind of scum of humanity," and detainees at Guantanamo Bay, "deserve to have some adjudication of their cases," even if that means "releasing some of them." McCain now believes the opposite.

3. He opposed indefinite detention of terrorist suspects. When the Supreme Court reached the same conclusion, he called it "one of the worst decisions in the history of this country."

4. In February, McCain reversed course on prohibiting waterboarding.

5. McCain favored closing the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay before he was against it.

6. When Barack Obama talked about going after terrorists in Pakistani mountains with Predators, McCain criticized him for it. He's since come to the opposite conclusion.

Foreign Policy

7. McCain was for kicking Russia out of the G8 before he was against it.

8. McCain supported moving "toward normalization of relations" with Cuba. Now he believes the opposite.

9. McCain believed the United States should engage in diplomacy with Hamas. Now he believes the opposite.

10. McCain believed the United States should engage in diplomacy with Syria. Now he believes the opposite.

11. McCain is both for and against a "rogue state rollback" as a focus of his foreign policy vision.

12. McCain used to champion the Law of the Sea convention, even volunteering to testify on the treaty's behalf before a Senate committee. Now he opposes it.

13. McCain was against divestment from South Africa before he was for it.

Military Policy

14. McCain recently claimed that he was the "greatest critic" of Rumsfeld's failed Iraq policy. In December 2003, McCain praised the same strategy as "a mission accomplished." In March 2004, he said, "I'm confident we're on the right course." In December 2005, he said, "Overall, I think a year from now, we will have made a fair amount of progress if we stay the course."

15. McCain has changed his mind about a long-term U.S. military presence in Iraq on multiple occasions, concluding, on multiple occasions, that a Korea-like presence is both a good idea and a bad idea.

16. McCain said before the war in Iraq, "We will win this conflict. We will win it easily." Four years later, McCain said he knew all along that the war in Iraq war was "probably going to be long and hard and tough."

17. McCain has repeatedly said it's a dangerous mistake to tell the "enemy" when U.S. troops would be out of Iraq. In May, McCain announced that most American troops would be home from Iraq by 2013.

18. McCain was against expanding the GI Bill before he was for it.

Domestic Policy

19. McCain defended "privatizing" Social Security. Now he says he's against privatization (though he actually still supports it.)

20. McCain wanted to change the Republican Party platform to protect abortion rights in cases of rape and incest. Now he doesn't.

21. McCain supported storing spent nuclear fuel at Yucca Mountain in Nevada. Now he believes the opposite.

22. He argued that the NRA should not have a role in the Republican Party's policy making. Now he believes the opposite.

23. In 1998, he championed raising cigarette taxes to fund programs to cut underage smoking, insisting that it would prevent illnesses and provide resources for public health programs. Now, McCain opposes a $0.61-per-pack tax increase, won't commit to supporting a regulation bill he's co-sponsoring, and has hired Philip Morris' former lobbyist as his senior campaign adviser.

24. McCain is both for and against earmarks for Arizona.

25. McCain's first mortgage plan was premised on the notion that homeowners facing foreclosure shouldn't be "rewarded" for acting "irresponsibly." His second mortgage plan took largely the opposite position.

26. McCain went from saying gay marriage should be allowed, to saying gay marriage shouldn't be allowed.

27. McCain opposed a holiday to honor Martin Luther King Jr. before he supported it.

28. McCain was anti-ethanol. Now he's pro-ethanol.

29. McCain was both for and against state promotion of the Confederate flag.

30. In 2005, McCain endorsed intelligent design creationism, a year later he said the opposite, and a few months after that, he was both for and against creationism at the same time.

Economic Policy

31. McCain was against Bush's tax cuts for the very wealthy before he was for them.

32. John McCain initially argued that economics is not an area of expertise for him, saying, "I'm going to be honest: I know a lot less about economics than I do about military and foreign policy issues; I still need to be educated," and "The issue of economics is not something I've understood as well as I should." He now falsely denies ever having made these remarks and insists that he has a "very strong" understanding of economics.

33. McCain vowed, if elected, to balance the federal budget by the end of his first term. Soon after, he decided he would no longer even try to reach that goal. And soon after that, McCain abandoned his second position and went back to his first.

34. McCain said in 2005 that he opposed the tax cuts because they were "too tilted to the wealthy." By 2007, he denied ever having said this, and falsely argued that he opposed the cuts because of increased government spending.

35. McCain thought the estate tax was perfectly fair. Now he believes the opposite.

36. McCain pledged in February 2008 that he would not, under any circumstances, raise taxes. Specifically, McCain was asked if he is a "'read my lips' candidate, no new taxes, no matter what?" referring to George H.W. Bush's 1988 pledge. "No new taxes," McCain responded. Two weeks later, McCain said, "I'm not making a 'read my lips' statement, in that I will not raise taxes."

37. McCain has changed his entire economic worldview on multiple occasions.

38. McCain believes Americans are both better and worse off economically than they were before Bush took office.

Energy Policy

39. McCain supported the moratorium on coastal drilling; now he's against it.

40. McCain recently announced his strong opposition to a windfall tax on oil company profits. Three weeks earlier, he was perfectly comfortable with the idea.

41. McCain endorsed a cap-and-trade policy with a mandatory emissions cap. In mid-June, McCain announced he wants the caps to be voluntary.

42. McCain explained his belief that a temporary suspension of the federal gas tax would provide an immediate economic stimulus. Shortly thereafter, he argued the exact opposite.

43. McCain supported the Lieberman/Warner legislation to combat global warming. Now he doesn't.

Immigration Policy

44. McCain was a co-sponsor of the DREAM Act, which would grant legal status to illegal immigrants' kids who graduate from high school. Now he's against it.

45. On immigration policy in general, McCain announced in February 2008 that he would vote against his own bill.

46. In April, McCain promised voters that he would secure the borders "before proceeding to other reform measures." Two months later, he abandoned his public pledge, pretended that he'd never made the promise in the first place, and vowed that a comprehensive immigration reform policy has always been, and would always be, his "top priority."

Judicial Policy and the Rule of Law

47. McCain said he would "not impose a litmus test on any nominee." He used to promise the opposite.

48. McCain believes the telecoms should be forced to explain their role in the administration's warrantless surveillance program as a condition for retroactive immunity. He used to believe the opposite.

49. McCain went from saying he would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade to saying the exact opposite.

Campaign, Ethics, and Lobbying Reform

50. McCain supported his own lobbying-reform legislation from 1997. Now he doesn't.

51. In 2006, McCain sponsored legislation to require grassroots lobbying coalitions to reveal their financial donors. In 2007, after receiving "feedback" on the proposal, McCain told far-right activist groups that he opposes his own measure.

52. McCain supported a campaign-finance bill, which bore his name, on strengthening the public-financing system. In June 2007, he abandoned his own legislation.

Politics and Associations

53. McCain wanted political support from radical televangelist John Hagee. Now he doesn't.

54. McCain wanted political support from radical televangelist Rod Parsley. Now he doesn't.

55. McCain says he considered and did not consider joining John Kerry's Democratic ticket in 2004.

56. McCain is both for and against attacking Barack Obama over his former pastor at his former church.

57. McCain criticized TV preacher Jerry Falwell as "an agent of intolerance" in 2002, but then decided to cozy up to the man who said Americans "deserved" the 9/11 attacks.

58. In 2000, McCain accused Texas businessmen Sam and Charles Wyly of being corrupt, spending "dirty money" to help finance Bush's presidential campaign. McCain not only filed a complaint against the Wylys for allegedly violating campaign finance law, he also lashed out at them publicly. In April, McCain reached out to the Wylys for support.

59. McCain was against presidential candidates campaigning at Bob Jones University before he was for it.

60. McCain decided in 2000 that he didn't want anything to do with former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger, believing he "would taint the image of the 'Straight Talk Express.'" Kissinger is now the honorary co-chair for his presidential campaign in New York.

61. McCain believed powerful right-wing activist/lobbyist Grover Norquist was "corrupt, a shill for dictators, and (with just a dose of sarcasm) Jack Abramoff's gay lover." McCain now considers Norquist a key political ally.

"Which crooks and terrorists supported McCain?"

look up McCains "old friend" Mr. Liddy. Served 4 years in prison.

"Now that the "surge" is working to allow pullout, he wants to be seen as the one responsible for getting the troops out early."

Show me the where Obama said he "wants to be seen as the one responsible for getting the troops out early." Otherwise, you facts are wrong.

"And millions have seen him with his hand *not* over his heart. You're outnumbered and busted yourself."

Are you referring to the picture that was taken before he had the chance to put his hand over his heart? If so you are right, Obama's hands are slower then the flash of a camera, otherwise your facts are wrong.

"So if the devil reforms, any former association with is OK. This is BS."

This is about people, not fairy tale creatures. If a person serves his prison term for a crime, that person has payed his dept to society. Read the constitution, it will back me up on this one. Your facts = wrong again.

"Small town people" is different from saying "people", as he colud have. The word "small" is the key. Another good try."

Small town people means, duh, 'people from a small town.' Not small people in a town. How is this an insult? You = wrong.

"No candidate did this before. Enough said."

You are right here, no other candidate ever had this much support by the common man that he would need to fill up a stadium to talk to them all. Obama nice to listen too. And your point here was?

"I did not mention "inexperienced". Your efforts are *really* down the tube now."

Half of McCain supporters think Obama has no experience. At least he is trying. I think McCain has no experience, and he likes it that way.

You should just give up. It is obvious to anyone who read both of our posts that you do not know what you are talking about. I am pretty sure that all of your "facts" have been proven wrong or trivial in the debate of "Obama verse McCain." Good game though, someone had to lose. I'm glad that my team's leader is young, smart, and a good leader. It has to suck to try and defend McCain, he is full of errors and missteps.

BillW,

You may not literally used a computer to remove the nonsense you publish but it is all material that comes from unreliable sources. You are certainly entitled to do that but I think you possess the intelligence to do something more with you life than publish material of this nature. If you feel you must defend your propaganda as facts, by all means continue to do so. I will give you the last word on that.

McCain plans to learn how to turn on his TV just after he learns how to use a computer.

Perhaps then he will get a glimpse of the real world the rest of us live in.

Thank you, Miss Clarty

I might have a nice walk now.

Hey RoboTech is Obama a bigger flip flopper than this, http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/16124.html#more-16124 Also. As far as debating McCain goes, McCain turned down Obama to do 5 appearances. Do you think Obama was going to walk into McCain's stacked town hall meetings and play this game on his terms. McCain's lucky he can get 100 people to show up to see him. Obama would be wasting his time, and would never get his message out if he fooled around with McLame. McCain won't debate Obama because without his campaign people he don't know a thing about the economy or anything thats going on. All those times McCain called out Obama to do town hall meetings, you would think McCain would jump at the chance to do five with Obama. What a loser. Is this going to be the first presidential election with no debates. I want McCain on TV in front of the world. He won't do it because he's scared.

I am trying to figure out what bothers McCain the most?

The fact that everyone seems to love Obama and what he represents?

The fact that McCain has put forth nothing of substance other than more war, more whining, and more of the same?

The fact that even his fellow republicans seems to not even like him, with many coming out in favor of the Obama plans?

The fact that even George Bush seems to be pulling the rug out from under him by way of meeting with Iran and setting a time-horizon for troop withdrawal?

The fact that Obama is simply more interesting, intelligent and making real news?

Or is it simply that he also wants to be a part of this big movement of change .. and he can't .. because he has to run his stupid campaign?

Is that it ol' buddy? Feeling left out?

It's ok, you can come on over too.

Then you won't have to 'member all those stupid details about borders and the names of countries. You can just sit on the back porch by the ocean and listen to those great American waves lapping at the shore.

I'm sure McCain's first wife is laughing away at this "Love Affair" comment.

McCain is saying lots of dumb things lately. It is not interesting to listen to him constantly attack Obama rather than talk constructively and positively about what he will accomplish as President.

John, tell us about why it's good for us to send our jobs overseas, ruin families and break childrens' hearts by risking citizen-soldier's lives on their 3rd or 4th tour of duty in Iraq, or why the government needs to control a women's reproductive life. John, tell us about John McCain and I'll be interested.

Andrew,

I am a left of center retiree who depends on the stock market for part of my retirement. Would i surprise you to know that the stock market is down during the Bush administration.? Would it also surprise you to know that the wealth of the top 20% has increased relative to the other quintiles. I chose to vote for Obama because he is a candidate who seems to be most concerned about budget deficits. He states how he will pay for everything he does. As meticulous on budgetary matters as Obama is McCain is careless.

I respect your opinion, mine is different but it was Obama's fiscal conservatism that attracted me to him.

You mentioned Clinton, her health care policy was too expensive, we can't afford it. Obama's was more modest and if everything works out right it will lower costs for insurance for all of us. It is not a hand out.

The prosperity of this country depends on lowering our deficits and Obama has Bob Rubin in his corner now and according to Rubin was listening to Rubin even before the general election. It is during Rubin and Summers terms in Treasury that the stack market took off. Rubin believes that was due to budgetary constraint. Deficits do matter. McCain says he will balance the budget in four years but in the first year he has an inauspicious start. McCain gives no indication how he will achieve this feat, just as he gives no indication how he will get us out of Iraq.

You sound like a thinking young man, may I respectfully suggest that you take a closer look at Obama.

There will be no gifts with him, things will have to be earned.

stranger than fiction

Obama's focus is on his goal and like all other winners they never look over their shoulder to see what the other guy is doing they just keep on task. So when 'they' say Obama's got attitude of the uppity type just remember those are the losers comments - the winners understand the stance and see it as a focused personna. Who in the world wantss to focus on the shortcommings of a competitors - we're just focusing on our goal - no distractions there and you can call us anything you want 'cause we won't notice that either. We are not an embarassment to ourselves or others. We dare to believe, hope and we have the audacity to move forward not sideways or backwards by be captivated by anything less the high standards we set for ourselves and others can do the same or NOT.

The last person to "mock" Obama is no longer in the race. Remember when 'she' pointed to heaven and said "oh yeah, the clouds will part, celestial chiors will sing and there will be light" mocking God in Obama's name. Haaa haaa. Thou shalt not mock thy Lord thy God and McCain is an embarassment and questionably on balance. At least Clinton had her husbands connections with the TriLateral Commission/G8 to fall back on but even her husband is a lesser god when regarding the God above all gods.

Gator-ron said:
"Bill what NinaK said about cutting and pasting is true. You I believe are an intelligent person who prefers to wallow in ignorance. The fact that you can not distinguish between fact and opinion says that you are either uneducated or missing in action in college like your choice for president. "

Show where I cut and paste, unless from a former post of mine. You cannot, so you offer personal criticism. Again, fairly typical for an Obama supporter.

4:10

To RoBoTech:

Yea, you won hands-down.

Rebublicans know they will lose in November and are hanging McCain out to dry. He is the fall guy yet again, the chosen loser. Isn't it a bit uncanny how easy it is to rip him up? Republican leadership is using his doomed candidacy to spew as much hate and vitriol as they can into the next presidential cycle.
Problem is, they know not what they do.
The poison goes back inside themselves. As usual, someone will have to clean up the mess.

NinaK said:
"BillW, and just who or what are you? An expert at cutting and pasting? All that garbage you are spewing bespeaks of you suffering from a severe case of diarhhea of the mouth and little brain power, if any."

Nope, all my own composition, and I see no rebuttal, just personal insult. Fairly typical for Obama supporters.
Posted by: Billw

Bill what NinaK said about cutting and pasting is true. You I believe are an intelligent person who prefers to wallow in ignorance. The fact that you can not distinguish between fact and opinion says that you are either uneducated or missing in action in college like your choice for president.

Would Reagan have whined about th