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I hope the Democrats can restore whats been messed up by the Republicans. Which is everything!! I am horrified at the last two administrations policies. They have litterally ruined this country. Financially,economically,ethically etc,,,,
They have broken every law that real Americans hold dear and re written them to suit there selves. I just pray that we can some how turn things around.

GAY MARRIAGE BILL
I will give this courage Award to any one, democrat & GOP members, who is voting for this gay marriage bill. In the future, nobody will use money, intimidation, easy wrong way ad to make us heirs of our own kids and grand kids. This so-called american gene or gay gene is just to put our kids on death rows 'did make bad choice & want more followers, heaven gate, david Koresh,...' . Remember kids, anal sex and anal eating (so called 'salad') will be followed by suicide attempts, too soon deaths, low quality of life (poor health) and timing of 'going too soon'
Let stand for our heritage, let preserve our kids health by backing this gay marriage ban bill
Arthur Mboue

To the gentleman who believes it was illegal for the government to obtain telephone numbers, you're just plain wrong. The 1979 Supreme Court case of Smith v. Maryland held that there is no reasonable expectation of privacy in a number one dials on a telephone (as opposed to the actual content of a telephone conversation), as it is necessarily disclosed to a third party (the telephone company). Look it up, or just accept my free legal advice. I'll waive my fee.

The President does not "brag" about breaking the law. What is happening is that the Administration and its critics disagree as to the interpretation or scope of certain laws. You guys should at least read the opposing argument before you start pounding the table and yelling ILLEGAL!! (Try arguing a legal case that way and tell me how it works out.)

The Cillizza blog is about 2008 and consultants are seen as the prize today. Well, Bob Schrum was one of the key advisers for Kerry, but he is a total loser. His last success was back with Carter in 1976. So Kerry was dumb to hire a loser. If you have not helped win any elections, why would any Democrat hire this guy? Now he keeps popping up on TV like some expert. Hey, this guy is a loser.

The Republican party has Pataki running, big deal. He is toast, he is done and should just hang it up. I saw him at the New York convention, and the only people who cheered him were the out of town crowd at the after-hours party where Pataki was giving out free drinks and food. Not a good way to win voters who won't be voting for you until 4 years later, if at all.

Hey, Pataki, I doubt you will read this, but donate your millions to help the Republicans win in your state or across the nation. Help your party and your president now.

I am concerned about our nation and its leadership. But who will be the next president is totally up in the air. So much will happen in the next 2 years that it will have an impact on who will be the Republican and the Democrat or even if a third party will have a chance to make a difference like Ross Perot getting 19% of the vote nationwide.
So I will keep working to pay for my living and my family, watch some baseball and football, and cross my fingers that President Bush and his Security Group keeps the terrorists from causing massive chaos again. Someone in here said Bush has not done anything. Hey buddy, not having another terrorist attack on our nation is a big thing to me. My children were horrified at what happened 5 years ago, and it has taken our nation a long time to heal.
So if nothing else, whatever Bush and his team of legal and military minded people have done has kept our nation secure. Only the Democrats are telling us that we are not safe. Well, hey baby, the criminals are still out there for sure,but they did not hijack our planes and try to decaptitate our government or kill our leaders at the same time. Crime is not terrorism, and Hurricanes are not terrorism, so for pete's sake, can't you Democrats keep one defintion of the horror we are facing without keeping a watch! NO MATTER who is the president, I want a person who will protect our nation.

Wonder if this means that Brian Leske, currently close advisor to Mitt Romney, will leave to join his close friend Rodriguez in the Pataki camp?

Wonder if this means that Brian Leske, currently close advisor to Mitt Romney, will leave to join his close friend Rodriguez in the Pataki camp?

The topic seems to be about paid political operatives and consultants who are laying the foundation for presidential races. So on that topic, Cilliza has missed the groundwork of a group of volunteers promoting Secretary Rice for president. It is a draft movement of volunteers, (some of us have been volunteers on other political campaigns in the past for members of Congress and the Bush campaign as well), so using our own money to promote this dynamic person is not a big problem. Americans for Dr. Rice has been spending hundreds of dollars on TV and radio to get the word out about the Draft Condi for 2008 effort.
In California, the delegates were polled at the state convention, with 29% of them put Condi at the top of the list. Reporters are suggesting that Condi could make the state go from blue to red, as in Republican. She is at the top of the list of contenders being reviewed for 2008, sometimes tied with Rudy and McCain. National Journal has been doing polls about a woman president being tough enough, and also testing the support between Condi and Hillary. From the Wall Street Journal, to Washington Post with a recent column named Reliable Source, they are reporting about Condi as a possible candidate for president.
So if the topic of laying the groundwork for 2008 is truly the issue today, by all means, the effort to get Condi on the primary ballots is equally important.

Dear Wells, I made my statement about Rudy, McCain, and Condi defeating Pataki. The article by Cilizza is about Patakai, and in that context, he would fail to win the primaries. The issue of abortion will be only one factor to be considered in the 2008 primary season. The more important factors for me are national security, foreign relations, and economic health for the business segment. Without a healthy business environment, jobs are not going to keep growing to maintain our economy. The Democrats seem to enjoy dumping more taxes on business and then they complain when they got out of business from being overburdened and overtaxed. I will not vote for any Democrat, they offer me nothing.
Again, Dear Wells, Pataki will not win the nomination. It will be someone else, and that is all I am pointing out.

I don't think anyone is ignoring threats. N korea is in 5 party talks with china as the heavy. how else would it work? they give them their food. It is just not amenable to options available elsewhere.

I don't follow your reasoning on mushroom clouds. are you saying that the oil in the region is irrelevant? think about why s Africa getting the bomb is not urgently bad. And what resources does N korea command?

I admit I lost your train of thought and can't respond properly to it.

how does threats of nuclear bombs and oil resources invalidate each other. If I am understanding you, I would think the effect is additive.

Totally ignoring threats = good governance? Please explain. News Flash: good presidents manage crises on many fronts during their administrations; it's a very big world. In my universe, progress in problem solving is always considered a good thing.

Also, you seem to have forgotten that before the war, Condi Rice said, "we don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud." The scary vision of mushroom clouds was repeated by Bush and General Tommy Franks, head of Central Command. Vice President Dick Cheney declared Saddam to be a "mortal threat" on his way to "nuclear blackmail." This renders your 20/20 hindsight about "that region has strategic and economic realities" pretty much irrelevant, unless you think all of those people are idiots. Which is it? Don't worry, I don't expect you to respond which would clearly label you as one of the 'unconvertibles.'

"BTW, once they have the bomb, certain actions become more difficult." Can't help but point out that the first answer to this is: duh. Secondly, because the problem is hard does that mean we should ignore it and hope it goes away? The Cold War was very hard but that didn't keep a succession of presidents from fighting it. Are you saying that Bush would just ignore the Cold War? Interesting point; would that make him a good president?

What ever it is Geroge W stands for we shall never know - as put by the self-annointed conservative raio host Glenn Beck - "George Bush as a communicator is like Hellen Keller without hands."

This from a conservative - the same applies to Pataki btw.

BObby Wightman-Cervantes
www.balancingtheissues.com

It's really difficult to imagine George Pataki harboring even the slightest belief he could win the Republican 2008 nomination. A moderate has next to no chance to win anyway, and he's in 3rd or 4th place among moderates right now. Add to that the fact that he's deeply unpopular in his home state and has no real constituency anywhere else. He must really be bored to be wasting his time with this.

Judge, what are you suggesting we do in N Korea? Or are you doing the typical Dem ploy of pointing out difficult situations and not offering any solutions. we tried to eliminate N Korea 50 years ago and ran into a giant Chinese Army. We do what we can and stall on the rest. we were already in Iraq, in case you forgot and that region has strategic and economic realities that do not exist elsewhere. More silly soundbites. Is that the best you can do? Is there anything at all you think the current US government has done right? Or are you one of the unconvertible? Eager to hear your ideas.

and BTW, once they have the bomb, certain actions become more difficult - hence the attention on Iraq and Iran now. Maybe you'd rather do it the other way around and go after all threats who already have a bomb and leave the wannabees until later. Please explain.

I think Allen is out now for the same reason why he was in before. Allen has Bush like qualities and persona. That might of worked in 2004. But, in 2008 voters are not going to want anything that reminds them of Bush or Bush-Lite. They are sick him now wait till 2008.

McCain has the problem that for two years he has to run a campaign basically critizing the Bush Republican Administration and how he is nothing like Bush. I have never seen a campaign for president like that. McCain says: I'm a republican , but I'm not a republican like the one that is in the White House now. That is not going to work. And, he sure as hell can't say he wants to continue the Bush legacy.

I would love to see citations for all of those figures. otherwise they seem like cooked up numbers. here's mine:

http://www.theconservativevoice.com/articles/article.html?storyid=2063
money quote - "So, the mostly American liberation of Iraq dropped the rate of violent deaths from 50,000 a year under Saddam Hussein to 6,825 a year with the Americans in Baghdad. What Kennedy has labeled as American “savagery” has REDUCED deaths from violence in Iraq by 87%".

I can't vouch for any of this but it is a viewpoint that deserves recognition. I don't think counting bodies in Iraq is such an easy thing and would be suspicious of any numbers quoted without a large error term.

but is body count really the issue here? i alwasy thought is was to make the world safe for democracy. how many germans and allied soldiers were killed in the 1940s effort? the actual number is irrelevant because the outcome was ll that mattered.

electric was very good in saddams pet distrcit, non-existent elsewhere. On average this capacity has gone up although certain microcosms have gone down. Is that something you really care about? that americans are busy building schools and revamping infrastructure that expericned years of neglect and manipulation? sounds untenable, even for you.

And we would not be just about to attack Iran if ther leadership did not display growing signs of insanity and belligerance. What do you think most people would do if our leader said in a speech that the best solution to immigration was to wipe Mexico off the map? I would certainly agree that Israel has every validation to defend itself and wipe out these lunatics. But note, their leaders are not claiming that they are going to do this no matter what. do you not see any distinction here? Perhaps a few weeks living over there would clear up your thoughts.

Question: how many nuclear warheads in the rogue state of North Korea does it take to constitute a credible threat greater than that of Saddam Hussein in KOZ's eyes?
Answer: the facts are not important.

Who would want someone like that running the country?

Good question, about whether Bush or Saddam was a bigger threat to the average Iraqi. The latest study on deaths due to our premeditated invasion based on spun and cherrypicked intel, from an Iraqi humanitarian organization, found that 128,000 had died due to that decision (as of July 2005). That followed the Lancet study that estimated 100,000 deaths in the first year following the invasion. As bloody and tryannical as Saddam was, his regime was responsible for about 300,000 deaths in 24 years. A little math shows that we are way ahead of his pace. And Iraqis still have less electricity supply than they had when we came in to "fix" everything.

As for the rationale that the "old world" doctrine of attacking someone only if they attacked you being obsolete... so what you mean is that right now Iran has every right and would be stupid not to launch terrorist attacks on the United States. After all, there is clear and growing evidence that the US is preparing a cold-blooded attack on that nation.

So what if they killed a 100,000 civilians here in those attacks - we did that in Iraq, based on some combination of our president's fantasies and some behind the scenes oil lobbyist dealings that our media is still unwilling to look into. And some of you still cheer the action that brought this carnage on the Iraqi people. I assume you aren't hypocrites, and would approve of the same thing happening here - based just on "suspicion that the Americans might be about to attack us (Iranians)".

Or does right and wrong only apply to other people?

This is not a "hate America" post. It is a desperate (and probably futile) plea for Americans to GROW UP and start seeing themselves as adults with responsibilities to act civilly in the world behind our castle walls. I had thought that 9/11 would finally teach us that, but predictably the whispered lesson got drowned out in jingoist bravado and facile "they hates our freedoms!" explanations by one pathetic excuse for a leader.

how does one measure threats? and terrorists recruiting? Probably more slanted polls that go something like:
Q1:since the great Saddam has left and been replaced by that tyrant Bush, how do you now feel about the possibility of being murdured by the thugs who are supported by the American imperialists?
Pick one:
I hate bush
I hate him more than Saddam
I fear for my life

Poll results: more people hate bush than Saddam.

the ultimate question regarding Iraq (quickly being made obsolete by victory and another threat)remains, was it in our interests do do what we did? Do we use the old world method of sitting around waiting for attack or do we go on the offensive? this is a theme which has been with America since its inception. We invaded Mexico looking for that terrorists Pancho villa once. We have been in almost every American country, almost every European country, almost every Asian country...Isolationaism is a old American tradition worthy of debate. Offer your side with costs and benefits and I will consider it.

Larry - once again you have offered nothing but ridiculous blurbs. what does bush growing up in conn have to do with anything? And FYI, I have never listened to that kind of radio in my life. I guess you didn't read my link about radio. wouldn't want to water down the seas of ignorance now would you?
Truth and reality are not frightening, they are enlightening. you should try them sometime.

"Saddam was not a credible threat? what planet have you been living on? you mean the guy who invaded neighbors, pursued weapons, foiled sanctions, paid killers per suicide, harbored murderers, extinguished villages?"

True, and now we have done the same in Iraq. I hope that makes your chest swell with pride. Because it has also vastly increased terrorist recruitment and threats to the US (according to multiple independent analyses).

The MSM eagerly crows over any Republican who has suddenly "seen the light" of liberal ways. Likewise they crucify any Dem who dares to not tow the line - see Leiberman. It will be interesting to see who can run either of these gauntlets and defy the special interests. can Hillary support the war and get the moveon people to go along? Can McCain fool people into thinking he has seen the light (whatever light). Will we as a people fall for these fakers who will say anything they need to to get into power? why don't we support the guys who speak the truth - like Joe?

PS. Pataki, on the other hand, I can actually see happening. He's just milquetoast enough not to turn off anyone too much. In the context of a field where you have a pandering all-over-the-map pro-illegals guy (McCain), a repeat sibling abuser who dribbles tobbaccky juice all over himself (Allen), and a cult member who signed socialized medicine into law (Romney), that might be enough. I've heard that he actually comes off as "understated but presidential" whenever he speaks.

Sens. Sam Brownback and even Rick Santorum (the devil himself) are sleepers to keep an eye on. Strong fundamentalist/conservative credentials to appeal to the medieval Bible Era dwellers in the heartland.

zouk I am sorry the truth and reality frightens you so much. At least 25% of america is like you. Everything you say on this blog is lies you hear on right wing radio. Bush lived in Connecticut till his mid 20s. Facts are scarey things to people like you. Neocon fantasy land must be a strange but wonderful place.

I agree, Wells. I can never make up my mind on which potential candidate the MSM is more delusional: McCain (whom they would gush over even if he strangled a small child on stage) or Giuliani.

Consider: 35% of Bush's votes in 2004 came from "white evangelicals". These people are also, by all accounts, disproportionately *overinvolved* in the primary/grass roots activity of the party. These people are simply NOT going to swarm to a pro-gay, pro-choice northeasterner. It's about as likely as a tropical hurricane hitting Kansas in May.

Saddam was not a credible threat? what planet have you been living on? you mean the guy who invaded neighbors, pursued weapons, foiled sanctions, paid killers per suicide, harbored murderers, extinguished villages? how long would you have given him to show you the outcome? If you want to talk delusional, it is that Americans are more threatening than the foreign killers. how many incidents and how severe before you realize that there is a real, grave threat out there. I think this is a good question to be answered. Exactly what would it take for the anti-war, anti-whatever-else crowd decides there might be a problem. sounds like a simple question.

the idea that I would want to see America detroyed is just laughable on its face. I have worked in defense for a long time and don't consider spying as serious a threat as bombs blowing up. I have no problem with a rational discussion about the limits of surveillance, but to discount it entirely is just the view of a moron.
Larry you never have anything of substance to contribute. Bush is from TX, although he was born in Conn. this is typical of the stupidity that sound bites show off. "Oh you are so clever, you sure got in a zinger on that one". Is that your goal, to try to humiliate people with false facts. Or do you have anything intelligent to add? "bush broke the law and is unelected" - more drivel from a slobbering fool. I suggest you go down there and make a citizens arrest if you are so convinced.

do you actually know anything about telecom laws? did you know that the list of phone numbers is not private at all anymore? there was a change in the law a while back. I didn't think so.

I guess you have no fear of the IRS who has a much bigger database with much more sensitive information about your health, schools, mortgages, maritial status, kids, business. Seriously, your opinion may be important but the low level of input is degrading to your species.

I suppose many will respond with more insults and ignore any valid points I have made. furthering the points themselves.

To: Emily

Emily: "Now if Rudy decides to run, he will clobber Pataki, as would George Allen, McCain, or Condi Rice."

Emily get real there is no way Rudy can make it through the Republican Presidential Primary in one piece. South Dakota just outlawed all abortions. I personally like Rudy too, but he has no chance in the Republican Primary where they abort people who say they are Pro-choice.

"when we went to war, against his own self-interest?"

As history is my judge, the Iraq war is Bush's self interest in crystallized form. Persecuted solely for familial reasons without any credible threat (as is now plainly obvious) to back it up. The "blame the intelligence" excuse is moronic in the face of the fact that the WH forced the intelligence community to cook its own books.

These kind of statements prove that the refractory 25% of America that still approves of Bush is deeply delusional and will remain so.

Regarding Allen, I don't see how he is still considered a factor after his sister's book, "The Fifth Quarter". In it she reveals his violent abuse of her and her brothers growing up. Dragged her upstairs by the hair, rammed a pool cue into her boyfriend's head, broke one brother's collarbone and threw another through a glass door. Will the Republican base really want a guy like that in the White House, with his intemperate finger on the button? Although perhaps his racist redneck impersonation will charm them, who knows.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Allen_(politician)

Regarding McCain, I also don't see how the Republican base, which is boiling over with a "round 'em up, bus em out, and build a wall" sentiment, are supposed to warm to the Senator that their corporate wing recruited to draft a guest worker bill that will eventually make these "Mexican invaders" citizens. Do the pundits have any clue how raving mad the provincial whites are about them "fereners"? McCain is their perfect anti-hero.

I am so saddened by people like zouk who hate america so much they want to see it destroyed. Bush broke the law by getting phone call list. Simple as that. These neocons are so frightened they are willing to give up their rights to an unelected out of control pres. By the way Bush lost his home state of Connecticut twice

Drindl:
Your reaction does not seem to based in reality. do you just always bash or is there a thoughtful response to anything said? do you think bush pandered when he jumped in bed with Ted on NCLB. when he brought up social Security (first pol to touch third rail), when we went to war, against his own self-interest? consider that, no matter how low the polls go, Bush will not come around to "your way of thinking". that does not fit the definition of pandering. Sticking to your election promises (to the degree that was done) and sending through programs that are conservative is not called pandering, it is called Democracy.

If you want to see flip-flop, examine the best known of this category - John Kerry.

I guess you never answered the question about who has been harmed. Much too easy to just spout off silliness and conspiracy theories. but you dance with the one that brung ya.

Very interesting article about why Dem radio never hits the chord. this blog exemplifies this notion:

http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5495

Try not to pre-judge this but I am open to honest debate.

King: i think it is both the pandering and the point of view. a few years back Falwell et al were the "agents of intolerance"..my guess is if you asked Falwell today if his world view has changed from then the answer is no..so does that mean McCain's view has? he knows without the holy rollers he's dead in the water gop speaking..at what cost though? seems he's willing to gamble on the moderate/independant vote.....

OH my goodness, somebody actually said Bush doesn't pander. God, pick me up off the floor. Sir, he doesn't do anything BUT pander and flip-flop and appease his winger nutjob base. He wouldn't know governance if it bit him in the ass.

And as for your claim that the NSA is not 'listening in' on our phone calls, please don't be a naive child. The administration has gone so far as to admit they are tracking every phone call made in this country and they can decide to listen in anytime they feel like it, for any reason. Since when has George Bush EVER shown any respect for the laws of this country? He makes it known he is above the law. He brags about it.

There's a report up now on ABC that a senior government official is telling reporters they are being spied on, and I'm sure that's just the beginning. Any political enemy of the administration is now fair game for blackmail, extortion, threats and imprisonment. My friends, the gulags are coming. and there will be no one with the power or the courage to stop them.

New York is important since it the NEW home of Hillary. If she wins the Senate, ( and she might), it lays the foundation for her to run in 2008.
The Republican attorney who ran earlier made a key statement about Hillary, she is only using the state as a stepping stone to the White House. The Democrats have pounded on Fox News for its being a place for the Republicans to be heard, to give both sides, and to be part of the domination of media which has been badmouthing HIllary and Bill Clinton for years. The fundraiser by Rubert Murdock might just be a way to get the Democrats off his back, to be using his media empire to help THAT woman in order to protect it from lawsuits from Democrats. (the Democrats complain about the monopoly of the media (like Clear Channel and Murdock) but failed to complain
about USA Today and the Gannett empire, the NY Times Empire, or even the Washington Post, Time Warner, CNN, cable channel empire since they helped the Democrats and liberals get out their message while ignoring the Republicans/conservatives from having an equal or fair chance to defend themselves.
That is what is going on people. Rupert is willing to help Hildebeast since the GOP in New York is floundering and Pataki won't sacrifice his charima-lacking body to make Hillary spent her money to defend her seat. It is as plain as the nose on our political faces.

Quentin Langley is correct about Pataki should have run against Hillary in 2006, he did win 3 statewide elections and if he won, it would show the impact of the GOP/business minded voters in NY.
It would also show politically that Pataki would win his own state in 2008, (we all remember Gore lost his own state of Tennessee and the White House). I also agree that if Pataki ran for the Senate, he would be forcing Hillary to use her $20 million to hang on to her seat. Therefore, Pataki has failed to help the party defend itself, and I have zero admiration for that man.
Pataki will not win the primary votes in early states in 2008 because he does lack charisma and as Drindl stated, "is a low calipher Republican."
Now if Rudy decides to run, he will clobber Pataki, as would George Allen, McCain, or Condi Rice.
If the Washington Post was real smart, they would be going to the June convention in Iowa to see who the Republican delegates support for 2008.
Many of us who were at the Memphis event earlier this year as delegates were surprised that McCain sabotaged the "straw poll" by trying to put President Bush on the ballot with his write-in campaign. The media has been calling McCain the frontrunner based on national polls and the headlines he gets on all his visits to New Hampshire and S Carolina. But those 142 delegate votes for Bush at the Memphis event would have been better used to show who is a legally qualified person to win the 2008 nomination.
I went to the Midwest Republican convention in Indiana in 1997, met Governor Bush, and found him the frontrunner at that time. He remained the frontrunner again in Nebraska at another Republican Leadership convention. These events are to test the water of the delegates, the people who do the work and help raise money for presidential candidates.
Rudy, McCain, and Condi are the top horses in the race, high name recognition, respect for their leadership, and high job approval ratings, (at least for Condi at 55%)
Pataki has to pay people to promote him, these people have loyalty to whomever pays them $5000 a month.
Hillary is shelling out $100,000 a month for her office, her paid staff.
It will be the grassroots people in those early states who collect names on petitions to put the names of candidates on the primary ballots and to pay the registration fees.
The frontrunner status of McCain is a media dream, the reality is that in poll after poll of Republicans, he has to share that top rating with Rudy and Condi. George Allen is coming on strong and so is Mitt Romney. Pataki is going nowhere, no matter how many people he hires to promote him as president.
He is a boring speaker like Frist, lacks charm like Newt, and has the name recognition of Senator Hagel. Pataki could do better to help the Republican candidate win the governor race in New York.
Otherwise Spitzer wins, and that only helps Hillary.

so McCain is OK as long as he is pandering to the left but becomes a problem when he starts pandering to the right. so is it the pandering or just the point of view? Maybe you don't like Bush because he does not pander (as much) and doesn't govern by polls.
I am somewhat pleased that we finally have a politicain who does things he believes in (even if I personally disagree with a portion). this poll driven attitude based on the ignorance of the general population does not look good for our future. Arm chair generals are not good policy makers. Out-of-work factory workers are not the people to ask about economic policy.
notice how the news stations have characterized the NSA data mining as "listening in" on phone calls when actually, if the reports are true, it is just a chain of calls made with no actual conversations recorded.

If someone makes a lot of calls to Pakistan and other suspect regions, don't we want to know who else they are conferring with? I haven't heard from any damaged individuals yet. and please don't give me the slippery slope argument. that is always inaction hidden as courage. When has a slippery slope ever actually happened and our rights steadily gone downhill with no hope of correction?

The NYT is based in New york and so are most of the writers. that is why NY is so important - laziness and perspective. don't you know the press thinks they are the most important people in the world? Notice all the hype about Tony Snow and Katie Couric. what difference does it make really? Of course if you need to sell papers and produce ratings, there must be a new "crisis" every single day.

http://www.unknownnews.org/

Poll: 2004 Election Was Stolen; according to viewers of all news networks except Fox

News
Tell A Friend
by Rob Kall
http://www.opednews.com

Who are these Fox viewers. OpEdNews gives you the details.

In the first poll of its kind, (using First choice of TV news network as a demographic variable)OpEdNews.com, in the second OpEdNews/Zogby People's poll has learned that except for viewers of right wing news show, Fox News, poll respondents believe that the 2004 presidential election was stolen.

Overall, the poll of Pennsylvania residents found that 39% said that the 2004 election was stolen. 54% said it was legitimate. Shortly after the election, the NY Times suggested that a few fringe extremists and bloggers were concerned about the theft of the election.

But let's look at the demographics on this question. Of the people who watch Fox news as their primary sourc of TV news, one half of one percent believe it was stolen and 99% believe it was legitimate. Among people who watched ANY other news source but FOX, more felt the election was stolen than legitimate. The numbers varied dramatically:

Here are the stats by network listed as first choice by respondent and whether the respondent thought the election was stolen or legitimate.
Network Stolen Legitimate
ABC 56% 32%
CBS 64% 31%
CNN 70% 24%
FOX .5% 99%
MSNBC 65% 24%
NBC 49% 43%
Other 56% 28%

The poll asked people which was their favorite source of TV newst. Among the 689 people in the poll who answered this question, 37% watched Fox news, more than any other single network. CNN came in second with 21% with MSNBC third, with 13%. It makes sense for these three 24/7 news networks to be the top in this category, since the others air news for limited parts of the day.

A lot more information on Fox News viewers :

After Fox news, the second choice for news network among Fox viewers is ABC 38% and MSNBC 37%, followed by CNN with 27%, NBC with 19% and CBS with 6%.

74% of it's viewers are married. 15% are single and 10% are divorced, widowed or separated. Whether they are fair and balanced, is up for debate. But they appear to be THE family channel, at least for Republicans. 64% have children. 85% of them come from non-union families. Among churchgoers, half go to church, temple or mosque rarely, never or just holidays. But for Fox News Viewers half go frequently. Among NBC viewers, 67% go most frequently. NBC has the most religious viewers. More born-agains watch NBC; 54% to 46%, and Born Agains are least likely to watch ABC: 95%/5%, MSNBC 78%/22%, CBS 76% to 24% and CNN 65%/35%. More Catholics, Protestants and Born-agains watch Fox news than any other news network.

82% of people who identify themselves as conservative and 80 of those who consider themselves very conservative watch Fox News. Zero liberal or progressives watch Fox News as their first choice, and 42% of moderates chose FOx news as their first choice. The first choice of progressives (very liberal) is Other, assumingly C-Span and the like. The first choice of Liberals is CNN.

Fox news is the favorite of suburban, small city and rural dwellers. CNN is the first choice of large city dwellers.

Among immigrants Fox news is the top favorite.

46% of men and 30% of women watch Fox news.

Less than 2% of Democrats favor Fox news, while it's the favorite for 75% of Republicans and 34% of independents. For Republicans and independents, Fox is the network that is first choice. CNN is viewed as first choice by Democrats, with 38% choosing it.

The OpEdNews.com/Zogby People's Poll, with 42 questions, also found that the PA US Senate Race, with Rick Santorum, is not at all like other polls have reported. While Casey Has a 47-37% lead. He has spent millions of dollars to get it. His opponents Chuck Pennacchio and Alan Sandals are both within similar range, with 45% and 43% with Pennacchio having spent under $100,000 and Sandals having spent under $500,000. Both the current and a previous OpEdNews/Zogby people's poll found, that after respondents were given position information on the candidates, that Casey's lead disappears and he pulls a smaller percentage than either Pennacchio or Sandals.

We are waiting on further crosstab analysis of the data. We believe that we will find that if you pull out Fox viewers, the rest of America has a far different view of America and the Bush Administration

This poll was run May 9th through 10th, in Pennsylvania, by the Zogby organization.

Methodology statement from Zogby:
Zogby International conducted interviews of 707 likely voters online. Panelists who have agreed to participate in Zogby polls online were invited to participate in the survey. The online poll ran from 5/9/06 through 5/10/06. The margin of error is +/- 3.8 percentage points. Margins of error are higher in sub-groups. Slight weights were added to party, age, race, religion, and gender to more accurately reflect the population.

More detailed Statistics from the poll will be posted later today.

Take action -- click here to contact your local newspaper or congress people:
Report that Besides Fox Viewers, Poll Shows People Believe Bush Stole the 2004 Election

Click here to see the most recent messages sent to congressional reps and local newspapers

Rob Kall is executive editor and publisher of OpEdNews.com, President of Futurehealth, Inc, and organizer of several conferences, including StoryCon, the Summit Meeting on the Art, Science and Application of Story and The Winter Brain Meeting on neurofeedback, biofeedback, Optimal Functioning and Positive Psychology. He is a frequent Speaker on a wide range of subjects. See more of his articles here and, older ones, here.

To: Busch

That's Hilarious. I totally forgot that the wonderful Art Finfelstein a.k.a. ( Gay Benedick Arnold because he worked on the Jesse Helms Campaign ) was also working on the Pataki Campaign.

>>>Or (C) dated Art Finkelstein to say this crap

or (D) dated CC to get this posted. (sorry, egad/busch broke the ice)

This piece seems to be more abt this Rodriguez character than abt Pataki. What did you get for posting this, Chris? What was the quid-pro-quo?

The best is the photo annotation of LR... "(Courtesy Leonard Rodriguez)" but not courtesy Pataki campaign? Sleezy, Chris, very sleezy.

You ask why George Allen? He is the perfect Republican candidate: insincerely sincere, seemingly Christian, pro-business, anti-humane, pro-Nascar and pro-football. A phoney southerners. What else do we need? Another Bush.

This Rodriguez guy either (A) recieved tons of $$ to say this crap or (B) smoked tons of weed to say this crap...

Or (C) dated Art Finkelstein to say this crap

This Rodriguez guy either (A) recieved tons of $$ to say this crap or (B) smoked tons of weed to say this crap

Leonard Rodriguez Next Job Interview:

Interviewer: Why were you working on "Pataki Presidential Campaign" ?

Loenard Rodriguez: Uhmmm, I was on a lot of prescription medication at the time so I really can't be held accountable for my actions.

To: TheIrishCurse

You're right what has George Allen really done ? I have never thought of it that way. He is one of the people the Media keeps pushing, but why ? I guess because he young and moderate looking and, can probably raise at lot of cash. But, yeah he doesn't really stand out as having accomplished much legislatively - even when he was governor. Maybe, that helps because then it harder to tie him to unpopular legislation. It's a thought.

Why are we talking about Pataki ? My dead grandmother has a better chance of winning the Republican Nomination. It must of been a slow news day for Chris. Pataki has really screwed up the budget in New York recently. It has caused a backlash against him - his poll numbers are in the 20s - check Survey USA. The Republican Chairman of New York State has advised all republicans candidates to not been seen in public with him. Pataki at this point couldn't beat a republican in his home state much less a democrat. Pataki's presidential run is DEAD, DEAD,and DEAD !

As for poor little Leonard Rodriguez, he needs to start updating the resume and not mention he worked on "Pataki Presidential Campaign" at his next job interview.

A guy who had to drop out of his own race for re-election because he was polling in the 30's does not sound like a particularly viable choice for a Presidential nominee. He would not have a hope of carrying his own state in the general election. Nor does Pataki have any special credentials or constituencies that get him any further in the the GOP primary than any of a dozen other guys who are currently scratching their heads over the race. Oh, he grew up on a farm? This is supposed to rope Iowa in for him? Please tell me that you don't actually believe this. George W. Bush grew up as a prep school cheerleader in New England. This kind of stuff just doesn't matter in real elections.

I know that everyone is desperate to see some excitement going on in the GOP field because right now it's really just Allen and McCain and everyone is bored with Allen already. But seriously, this is just lame. Not quite as bad as talking up Jim Gilmore or Dan Quayle but pretty close.

You want to have some fun? Speculate about what would happen if Jeb Bush jumped in. That is at least marginally more likely than George Pataki staying in this thing long enough to make it to the first debate.

As an NY native, I'm really amazed by the love-fest for Pataki in this piece.

Pataki is a mediocre campaigner, horrible at connecting with people, and will leave the Governor's Mansion with very few dedicated fans in NY. At best, you can say that he did a serviceable job as Gov., and didn't really piss off too many people.

But that, right there, is the heart of things. Pataki will finish his time in office having done NOTHING in NY. In a state with a lot of guys who have left a legecy, there will be nothing to remember Pataki for. He has never really turned the Upstate economy around, our Upstate cities are in as bad shape as ever and the forced move of jobs from Albany to downstate early in his time in office won him no friends as good for Upstate in general. He gets no credit (and should not get any credit) for anything done in NYC after 9/11. He has not made our schools better, our streets safer, etc. There's nothing there. He's just blah. What's the point of the candidate who is defined by nothingness.

If the GOP can take this guy and turn him into a real candidate, I'll give them credit, they could get a rock elected.

Drindl, i am totally with you on McCain. i consider myself a very moderate dem, and i thought McCain was the goods...i tell you though he blew me out of the water with the crap he pulled at the Tenn. straw poll. he showed he was either a panderer or a coward. I guess with his new found love of Mr. Falwell (hard for me to call him a reverend) panderer seems to be his m.o......

Considering how loathed Pataki is by most people in this state I really find it astonishing that Cilizza is writing about this. But then again, all of the Republican '08 candidates are so low caliber and bottom-of-the-barrel [just like Bush] I guess that's just all they've got.

I am disappointed with McCain though, because like a lot of people, I was fooled by him and now seeing him standing with a man who thinks we should burn the Constitution so we can become a "Christian nation" makes me want to puke.

They're all so sickening it's hard to know which is worse. But Pataki has zero personality, ideas, charisma -- nothing. As most of us remember, what he did on 9/11 was hold Guiliani's jacket. And that's a fitting symbol of who he is.

>>>Who died and made NY the epicenter of US politics

About 3,000 people

What i do not get is what George Allen has done to be considered in "the top tier of Republican presidential candidates"..McCain, love him or hate him, has a quantifiable track record, and Romney with his bipartisan health care deal in Mass. proves he can get things accomplished. Is George Allen going to run on the fact he's Shrubya's toady? Hopefully George Allen gets his clock cleaned in his November re-election bid, and he can put his presidential ambitions to rest....

Who died and made NY the epicenter of US politics. Good gosh, we got Pataki, Rudy, Hillary...probably even Sharpton.

NY's economy will boom with all the candidate handlers migrating there from DC to staff all the HQs.

New on EWM, NSA spying explained: "Your Own Government-owned Cyberganger"
http://www.eyewitnessmuse.com/commentary.php?p=221

...If you are among those that think Bush's interest is limited to our "calling patterns," you should drop by. We can discuss some investment opportunities. But if you've been using your brain for processing input, you will have gathered enough of your own intelligence to know that the ultimate consequence of their intentions will be the creation of your own government owned cyberganger. An electronic, instantly retrievable, you that contains everything from your pizza preferences to your PSA count. And, if government database development experience is any teacher, it'll be chock-full of errors. See you at sunny Guantanamo...

Pataki rasies an interesting question in terms of McCain - McCain's decision to get in bed with that Pat guy, you know the one - the Christian calling for the assassination of world leaders - could cost him Iowa and NH -

this is especially true if a yankee like Pataki is in the race - the question will become - will S Carolina be able to revive the McCain campaign?

Bobby Wightman-Cervantes
www.balancingtheissues.com

Pataki's biggest problem is that he is not even the best known Republican in his own state. If any liberal New Yorker is going to make an impact on the GOP race, it is Giuliani. Pataki passed up the opportunity to make himself a hero to the GOP base when he declined to challenge Hillary this year. He would probably have lost, but at least he would have made her spend some of her money. In the event that he had won, the Republican base would have fallen in love with him.

Quentin Langley
Editor of http://www.quentinlangley.net