Oil companies do not need the president or the republican party to ask them to take a bite out of their profit margin. They are very much aware that keeping republicans in control continues their chances of corporate tax breaks and taking a bite out of the profit margin for a few months is a drop in the bucket if it prevents higher corporate taxes. Some opinions have noted that there was no manipulation in the months preceding the election in 2004 so that should prove that there is no manipulation now. These people are hoping that the american public is just that naive. In 2004 the republicans still had strong support and were in no danger of losing either the presidency or control of the congress. That is no longer the case. There is a strong possibility that control of the congress will shift to the democrats and the oil companies are very well aware of that and it is just naive to think that they would not stoop to such tactics. Wake up America. Use your heads. Will you be mindless sheep through yet another election ?

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OK I get it George Bush and the Administration go to their "Oil Buddies" and say alright you need to lose money till after the election so we can stay in power.

OK well he is gonna be President of the United States no matter what happens and so will most members of Congress.

So what in the world would such a strategy accomplish? This question must be answered before coming up with convoluted conspiricies.

Suppose you were a friend of mine and I said "Hey I would like you to not work as hard or as many hours for the next month to earn less money so that those evil employers that hired you would not profit as much!" You would most likely laugh at me and ask if I had lost my mind. Not only would it make my family mad since they aren't eating as well, if at all, as they should, because Daddy or Mommy is not doing their job. It is also possible to be fired for such behavior.

The same could be said of the Oil Industry executives who answer to the stockholders...beleive me Exxon/Mobile is a public corporation that is traded on the open stock market and stockholder not only can vote but also liquidate their shares from the company if the results from those CEOs reflect poorly on their portfolio.

The oil prices of light sweet or heavy sour are also traded openly on the market and there are those that make their livlihood in speculation of the prices of that market, many have left the oil market as stocks have risen knowing that they will fall even further and are getting out before the final low of this market. This market can be moved by rumors of Iran cutting oil output or OPEC cutting oil output... right now it will be too late as inventories are at surlpus levels and heating oil is also, just look at headlines in your local newspaper.

The fact is that supply trully exceeds the demand for a product and in this case it is petroleum or oil

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Above is supply of dashes and I want $5.00 each for them.

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Dashes for $.35 or 4 for a dollar. It is just that I have too many. See what supply and demand does?

OK I get it George Bush and the Administration go to their "Oil Buddies" and say alright you need to lose money till after the election so we can stay in power.

OK well he is gonna be President of the United States no matter what happens and so will most members of Congress.

So what in the world would such a strategy accomplish? This question must be answered before coming up with convoluted conspiricies.

Suppose you were a friend of mine and I said "Hey I would like you to not work as hard or as many hours for the next month to earn less money so that those evil employers that hired you would not profit as much!" You would most likely laugh at me and ask if I had lost my mind. Not only would it make my family mad since they aren't eating as well, if at all, as they should, because Daddy or Mommy is not doing their job. It is also possible to be fired for such behavior.

The same could be said of the Oil Industry executives who answer to the stockholders...beleive me Exxon/Mobile is a public corporation that is traded on the open stock market and stockholder not only can vote but also liquidate their shares from the company if the results from those CEOs reflect poorly on their portfolio.

The oil prices of light sweet or heavy sour are also traded openly on the market and there are those that make their livlihood in speculation of the prices of that market, many have left the oil market as stocks have risen knowing that they will fall even further and are getting out before the final low of this market. This market can be moved by rumors of Iran cutting oil output or OPEC cutting oil output... right now it will be too late as inventories are at surlpus levels and heating oil is also, just look at headlines in your local newspaper.

The fact is that supply trully exceeds the demand for a product and in this case it is petroleum or oil

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Above is supply of dashes and I want $5.00 each for them.

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Dashes for $.35 or 4 for a dollar. It is just that I have too many. See what supply and demand does?

Route 16!! Aka East Broad St. You guys are very close to my home turf. But Newark, if anything, is east central Ohio, not South Central.

Base mobilization won't matter much when Democrats are far more enthused about voting than disenchanted Republicans this cycle. And stop using "Democrat" as if it were an adjective when you know full well that Democrat is a noun and the adjective is Democratic.

Bush did egg Israel on much too long in its war with Lebanon, and both we and Israel probably had real intelligence failures in that debacle. But I'm a lefty who does not see how Bush could be manipulating gas prices. Especially as I've seen them parallel here in Canada what they're doing in the US.

Independent Terp: Yes, I most certainly do remember in the late 90s when gas prices dipped below $1 a gallon. I drove home from college in Delaware, Ohio where I paid $.79 a gallon to St. Louis, MO where I paid $.69 a gallon. Now it's hilarious to hear Americans whining about $3 a gallon gas when Montreal gas prices recently hit a LOW of what amounts to $2.95 a gallon, from last month's high of $4.30 a gallon. In Europe they're paying $6 and $7 a gallon. In real terms, gas prices in the US are well below their all-time highs. Americans are using far too much gas, in part because it's too cheap.

Respected liberal economist: John Maynard Keynes.
Respected economists who give the Laffer Curve any credibility: 0.

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The reason most questions are not answered is that I am mostly interested in getting in my little humorous zingers. you may have assumed that there would be a debate based on some set of mutually agreed upon facts. you were wrong. I don't deal in facts, only name-calling and small-mindedness. My main purpose appears to be to drag down the level of discourse to the kindergarten level. I am not worth responding to but many seem to be easily suckered into responding to someone who has all the intellectual responsibility of a 9-year old.

The reason most questions are not answered is that the posters here are mostly interested in getting in their little humorous zingers. you may have assumed that there would be a debate based on some set of mutually agreed upon facts. you were wrong.

What is it about "DUH!" that you don't understand?

Nor'Easter: Thank you for taking the time to fully answer why people don't answer questions, but failing to answer the questoin based on the thread. I feel so much more intelligent having visited this site today. I hope only one day that I can be as helpful to others as you have been to me.

Terp - I went back through your postings to find the "questions" which you asked. There were two.

1) "I'd just like to ask why I and DavidT have both asked the forum a few questions and no one has answered any of those questions, or at least made an attempt."

and 2) You asked James, "Just curious, if I vote Democrat and they win, what do I get out of that deal?"

I believe that I am safe in answering the first question; the rules are found in the Post a Comment paragraphs at the end of the entries.

If you do not believe those rules are strict enough, then I suggest that you post those that you require the Rest of The World to follow in a current thread for comment. That could be interesting.

If you want personal service, you need to look elsewhere. (Please take a lot at your postings and notice the number of times you used "I" in them.)

If you want to grade papers, I suggest that you seek employment in the educational system. Most of us look past the form of these postings and look for the substance.

Lastly, the second question which you asked is unanswerable. I had assumed it was rhetorical, until your further postings.

Nor'Easter: That good old college education has done me quite well. It's enabled me to read for facts and information as well as for grammatical errors. If only the rest of the world could multi-task so well. I find it interesting that you didn't answer any of my questions or other peoples. Perhaps you're not able to distinguish the difference between a question and a comment. As much as people providing content is great, it would be nice of them to answer the questions that get asked in a forum. Otherwise, it just becomes a place where everyone begins to react and not think.

Listen up. If the Democrats regain control of Congress, chances are a windfalls profits tax will be awaiting the oil industry in 2007. Reason enough for the industry to try to influence the election in favor of incumbants by lowering prices dramatically. No need for Bush to intervene. Now, why did the Bush administration fail to exercise any controls on prices over the past year as prices rose through the roof? Let's see, who in the Bush White House could possibly benefit from increased oil profits? Hmmm? No, not economic ties to that industry in THIS administration. Nope.

Terp - I don't know how you read these postings. I found a lot of lack of understanding of the energy market process; but I also found a lot of pertinent information in a good number of them. Such that I know that I now have better factual information, which hopefully leads to a better understanding of the issue.

Not every poster here is throwing darts. If you're not an energy expert and didn't get something out of these that you didn't know about, then you must not have been reading them closely.

But then, maybe you were reading them looking for grammatical errors and not reading them for content.

Well said DavidT. I'd just like to ask why I and DavidT have both asked the forum a few questions and no one has answered any of those questions, or at least made an attempt. I typically don't post on these board and now I remember why. What is the point of reading all these posts as I have done just to listen to people argue Right vs. Left. I guess that's the DC area for you. I think you should all take a step back and remember that when you die, your gravestone is more likely to say "good father" or "good husband" and not "party voter for life".

So what I am saying about $50.00/bbl Venezuela crude is that it is not such a bargain as the average person might suspect.

I hate to confuse the issue with some facts here but here are the top exporters of crude oil to the US

1. Canada
2. Mexico
3. Saudi Arabia
4. Venezuela
5. Nigeria

Here is the website with these facts: http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_top.asp

So to Rob Grey and other, we are buying crude from Venezuela. The problem with Venezuela crude is that most of it is so thick, it is very hard to refine. So the cost of this oil is about $20/bbl below the widely quoted crude oil price that we see in the news every day. BTW, Citgo is owned by the government of Venezuela.

Davidt this post is over but if you check here do not attribute to me arguments that I never made such as gas prices should have been $6-$7 p/gallon at $78/gallon. I am convinced that much like the stock market oil prices are as much about psychology as any economic reality. We lived through $8 per barrel here in Houston and saw what ridiculously low prices can do to an economy as much as $78/barrel. Its not a popular thought here, but I sincerely think that our conflict in Iraq played at least a psychological part in keepking prices at $60-$75/barrel, but the answer is for American to acknowledge that our country has a problem with a disproportionate useage of oil, that we acknowledge that we need to drive smaller more fuel efficient vehicles, and if our politicians are unwilling to take on Detroit and demand higher CAFE Standards, then we should send them a message and stop buying their vehicles. Someone above was bragging about Bush's great economy, if not you david I apologize, but it is precisely b/c the economy is slowing that fuel prices have fallen so precipitously. If that coincidentally helps the Republicans I am sure we will not hear any complaints from D.C., but while I have doubts about the honesty of this administration, I generally reject conspiracy theories, and I am not part of either "fringe" mentality.

No hatred? You must never read or listen to what your leaders say. The never ending stream of venom from people like Dick Cheney, Condeleeza Rice, Donald Rumself,and George Bush. The republican lust for power has driven the party to new lows in integrity, and sanity for that matter. Why don't you just admit it and be done with it...we may not like it but at least we could respect your honesty.

I've seen a few posts through out this thread that put a lot of different ideas out there. I'd like to clarify some of them.

Supply and Demand only effect prices by a small amount unless there is little to no supply. Supply and Demand does not effect prices enough to raise the price of gas over 100%, especially when the supply is so high.

Also, someone asked that if Bush can control gas prices, why did he allow it to get so high in the first place? Thats an easy one. The gas companies are his friends, he gives them tax breaks and they raise prices so their profits can go up.

Bush and the gas companies allowed the price to go so high because there is nothing we can do about it. We NEED gas, our lives undergo serious hardship without it. No matter how high gas goes, until we have an alternative source (electric cars or cheaper ethanol) we will buy it. When the Democrats attacked the high gas prices and the public responded, Bush and Co realized that they needed to lower the price. Some people will point at "end of the driving season" or something sbout "summer blends" but even that does not explain prices dropping a dollar. Gas prices have never dropped this much before at the end of the season. No, this is simple price manipulation by the gas companies in an effort to keep Republicans in power. Sad thing is, that now prices have dropped to 2 bucks, people seem to think prices are low, prices are still rediculously high, where the heck is the 1.20 I remember so well.

I hope that nobody strikes a match around here!

Ira, you make the same mistake everyone on "your side" makes. You assign everyone to a group or side. The only side I've chosen is mine. I don't believe Bush manipulated the price of gas before the election to get votes and I do not believe the economy is booming as you said I do. The opposite is true, thus the drop in demand for oil. Bush manipulated the economy so it would suffer a down-turn before the election to lower demand for oil, to lower gas prices, to win votes? I do not like Republicans or Democrats. The left wing and right wing are both nuts. I hate Pat Robertson as much as I do Al Sharpton. So please leave the assigning of teams, sides or corners out of it, thank you. If your argument is that gas is too low compared to the price of a barrel of crude, or went down disproportionatly, then I would ask you why gas was below a dollar when oil was $10-15 a barrel but when it went to $78 it wasn't at $6-7? Did you argue then that the price of gas didn't go up enough compared to the price of oil?

You caught me off guard with Galbraith - he is liberal and he is respected. but his era was the Keynesian era with Big G manipulation of the market. these ideas are mostly discredited now, not to detract from his brilliance at the time.
but he died this year and didn't practice his craft recently. Technically you have met my challenge, but is that it?

"Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everybody gets busy on the proof." - JKG

and something you should identify with
"It is a far, far better thing to have a firm anchor in nonsense than to put out on the troubled sea of thought." -JKG

What seems to be the problem with producing alternative fuels like in Brazil and a fazed in increase in CAFE Standards?

shame you into it king? from your posts it is apparent that you are not capable of anything other than attacks.

What seems to be the problem with producing alternative fuels like in Brazil and a fazed in increase and CAFE Standards? Even auto makers are now supporting that concept. Why are so making blocking sensible energy independence. It is truly a national security issue.

The only true path to energy independence is to go nuclear and forget things like solar and wind power fantasies. But who do you think will be leading the charge to derail any such effort...I wonder.

If energy independence is so wonderful, why hasn't it already happened? you Libs have no sense at all for market forces or capitalism. Let's just have the Big G wish it (force)into existence. Let's have all your moral rightousness shame us into it. how about when it becomes productive, profitable and necessary, we do it? Imagine that.

BTW-
respected liberal economist: John Kenneth Galbraith

Thanks to Ind. Terp for restoring a little of my faith in the sanity of the nation. I have some questions for all of you.

Shouldn't Republicans conspire to make oil prices low so we stay hooked on oil?

Shouldn't Democrats conspire to make gas cost $8 a gallon to get us to drop the habit and find alternative fuels?

If Dems love the environment and Republicans want to stop terrorism, shouldn't both of them work together to make oil of no value?

Isn't our mere use of oil a threat to national securtiy since we buy so much of it from satan?

What war, battle or bomb would do more to destroy terrorism than making oil worthless?

What if all these conspiricy nuts stop blogging and put their vivid imagination to work creating some type of synthetic petroleum?

I see some come here to rant, rave and make ad hominem attacks, without being able to concentrate or discuss the topic at hand. Your posts king, are simply worthless drivel that does nothing to advance our serious need for Energy Indendence which I presume that we can all agree is in the best interest of Red States, Blue States and even king .

kingofzouk
Seriously, you're a condescending nasty jackass who contributes nothing to any debate except vitriol and abuse. Please, leave the sarcasm and the nasty comments to Ann Coulter who, at least, is funny.

Dems proposals

Problem............solution
1: The war in Iraq.... run and hide
2: terrorism............ full rights for foreign killers
3: The economy...... raise taxes
4: crime................. release criminals
5. education............ NCLB - endorsed by Dems (examine the votes)funded by Rs, endless complaints by admin and teachers who got left behind

Still no facts from you fantasists.

what will you say after your next electoral loss - more victimology no doubt.

davidt, again follow the discussion please. No one is arguing that there were not natural weather related and economic slow down conditions responsible for declining oil prices and that oil prices naturally go down as we reach the winter season. Although while the economy by all econmic indicators is slowing and has been relatively week for 6 years, your side argues incorrectly that we our economy is booming. Incidentally for those who follow the stock market like I have for 25 years the DOW goes up as the economy slows. What we are discussing is the extent of the precipitous drop in gas prices, huge energy profits and their close ties to Dick Cheney and the RNC, and their suspicious timing 45 days before the Nov election. Oil prices start going down after Labor Day but normally make their largest drop after hanksgiving.Incidentally it was Pat Robertson not us, who claimed he could control tornados to miss Oklahoma and strike San Francisco.

MikeB: I think inflated gas prices are no worse for this country (and myself) than low gas prices with no forward thinking. I drive a Ford Explorer in a city area and do not complain about the gas prices (and I make a lot less than you I bet). I still travel as much as I used to, I just cut out certain things here and there to the same extent other people cut out the unnecessary trips.

Because nothing was done about the oil situation ten years ago, we are all paying for this problem now. I don't blame Bill Clinton, former Bush, or Reagan for this issue. I certainly don't blame someone that just entered office six years ago. I blame all the Americans who chose to enjoy the $1.00 a gallon days without looking at the future. You could say the same thing for the majority or our environmental issues now. The fact is we didn't care when we benefitted; now we all must suffer the consequences. Sadly, $3.00 a gallon still hasn't changed the way we do things. And No, I'm not an environmentalist. I just hate that most people in this country, especially politicians on both sides of the fence, refuse to take responsibility and look towards a long-term solution. Instead, it'd be much easier to blame the most recognizable political figure on the other side of the fence.

Thanks for making my point mikeb....ZERO solutions and alternatives to problems, just blame, blame, blame.

Amused:

.....Problem............Reality
1: The war in Iraq.... Breading Terror
2: terrorism............ Where's Osama?
3: The economy...... Stagnent
4: crime................. Jack Abramoff, Duke Cunningham, Enron
5: education............ Left the children behind

No hatred? You must never read or listen to what your leaders say. The never ending stream of venom from people like Howard Dean, Charlie Wrangle, Harry Ried, etc, etc, etc, is disgusting. The democratic lust for power has driven the party to new lows in integrity, and sanity for that matter. Why don't you just admit it and be done with it...we may not like it but at least we could respect your honesty.

So how did Clinton get gas prices to their lowest point in history for the 98 election? Why/how did he get them even lower in 99 if it wasn't an election year? The more I read these blogs the more I realize this country is doomed by its insanity. The truth is now whatever you want it to be. That gas prices go down almost every time this year, election year or not, Democrat or Republican, is an inconvenient truth? I can't wait to read your next topic as to how Bush controls the weather and he made a huricane hit the gulf coast so oil prices could go up for once at the end of September and how he guided it intentionally to New Orleans so it would kill minorities. It doesn't matter if it's true, if enough of your type write about it, it will become the truth.

no actually we don't hate anyone amused, we just feel sorry for Bush and his woeful incompitence. We don't have time to leave our work, try to engage in intelligent discission with your side and waste it on hatred b/c Republicans will leave this country with so many economic and international problems in November to deal with that it will take Democrats years after they win in November to straighten out. No we don't hate anyone, even those like you who profess such ludicrous and straw man arguments. We will leave the hate speech to your friends Coulter and Limbaugh but don't throw that garbage out here, we came here to discuss why gas prices have collapsed 45 days before an election. Sorry you can't seem to follow the discussion here w/o attacking Bill Clinton (which we expect to hear 50 years from now) and thrwo the hate word out.

no actually the Michigan Sentiment level of consumer confidence has been down the last 5 years and it has taken 5 plus years for the Dow to reach the 11,000 level that Bill Clinton left in 2000. How did your stock portfolio make out between 2000 and 2006? Most American investors lost a substantial sum in their mutual funds in 401ks and their portfolios after 6 years are nearly back to December 2000, and you site that as a Republican accomplishment? But of course all of this is Bill Clinton's fault as is everything on the face of the earth. What happened to the party of personal responsibility. You ignored my querry where I pointed out that red states have higher gas taxes than blue states and that Bush and McCain pander and will continue to Iowa voters. Apparently you are afraid of reasoned argument, and would rather resort to name calling.

Thanks to all of you who post your theories about how Bush is able to manipulate the world oil market, something which even your most liberal rags know is so stupid that they don't dare try to push the theory themselves. 42% of people believe he is doing it and two-thirds of those are democrats. How can you stand to belong to such an ignorant party? Here are your solutions to the top 5 problems facing America today:

.....Problem............Solution
1: The war in Iraq....WE HATE BUSH
2: terrorism............WE HATE BUSH
3: The economy......WE HATE BUSH
4: crime.................WE HATE BUSH
5: education............WE HATE BUSH

Until you get over your obsessive hatred of our president and offer real alternatives, no one should take anything you say seriously.

If the Bush administration did not manipulate the gas price, why they did not reduce the gas price before, and they wait until closing to the elected day. It is hard to believe.

KingofZouk: Where are you getting your talking points? Rush Limbaugh or Anne Coulter? I've noticed the conservatives are running out of attacks these days. It's hard to play offense when you're on the defense. Can't hide from the truth. $3 Billion wasted in Iraq, Corrupt Government, Torture, Spying on Americans... May I ask, where do these issues allign with your conservative values?

Koz- you're funny! Talk about drinking the kool-aid! The economy is doing well? We're winning the war on terror? The econom is in the toilet, home sales are cooling off, Salaries are dead in the water, have been for a while, Healthcare, education, deficit, corruption, all terrible, all on the republicans watch. Hell, you guys can't even put body armor on the troops! But we're the losers? Okay, sure. Wait 'til we win the election and get out of Iraq and into Afghanistan.

bush and he buddy (the oil company in texas). as everyone known bush agenda, as soon as he became president. he and abraham(enegy-secretary). work togather to push the price of oil from $25 TO $78. CONSPIRACY ON AMERICAN PEOPLES. abraham resign, "mission accomplished".

ENRON. EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED WITH ENRON. THAT WAS JUST MARKET FORCES, RIGHT?

Independent Terp: if memory serves, neither administration during 1990-2000 had execs from big business craft an entire policy, such as the current administration did with execs from the energy industry. This strategy has led to Inflated Gas Prices, Record Profits & HUGE Subsidies. Do you honestly think this strategy is good for Americans, such as yourself? I guess the electorate will answer that question on Nov. 7th.

Simple - socialists don't understand capitalism. Name one Liberal, respected Economist.

Why would an oil company wait for Katrina/Iraq/911 to push oil prices up if they had pricing power to increase gas prices before these events?

If an oil company has pricing power to raise prices from $1.50/gallon to $3.00/gallon - why wait for a hurricane/war to increase prices?

This strange charitable behavior should be explained by any conspiricist (and self respecting journalist who gives these conspiracy theories credibility).

Perception is all that will matter: Stock market hits all time high, consumer confidence surges - it's the economy stupid. what do you perceive from this news?
I think I'll switch over to Libs and ruin the economy and give up on the war. that is the perception that dogs you. and in this case, perception is reality, not like your Scully and Muldar perception.
and the entire country now remembers why we were so relieved that Clinton is out, all the lies, all the spin, all the victims, all the conspiracies, daily scandels, trailer-trash, classless attacks, etc. He represents you people well. See above for evidence of this point.

bill your argument is bogus. I live in a Red state, Texas and we have the highest gas tax in the country. We use it to build our roads that I presume you drive on and avoid the congestion that D.C. and Virginia have and probably like to complain about. Perhaps you need to visit Mexico City some time and see if you want your community to choke on that type of filthy air which we had here in Houston had until the emissions control that want to complain about. People here in this Reddest of red states don't seem so exorcised about that tax for our roads and clean air, so where are you coming from. Incidentally I didn't hear Bush, Frist or McCain complain to Iowa voters that they want less ethanol produced. Did you? We await your answer sir.

You don't seem to get the point of the discussion, bill. You're too busy with your tinfoil hat.

All one has to do is go from Virginia into a blue state like Maryland. Gas is 30 cents per gallon more expensive for a simple reason; "nanny" states such as Maryland and California tax you to the hilt because they think you're too stupid to know what to do with your own money. Idiotic blending for the sake of the "environment" (read: padding the pockets of interest groups such as Iowa farmers of corn) hike up prices also in states such as Iowa and Illinois. the math is simple: it takes a gallon and a quarter of petroleum to make a gallon of ethanol.

All one has to do is go from Virginia into a blue state like Maryland. Gas is 30 cents per gallon more expensive for a simple reason; "nanny" states such as Maryland and California tax you to the hilt because they think you're too stupid to know what to do with your own money. Idiotic blending for the sake of the "environment" (read: padding the pockets of interest groups such as Iowa farmers of corn) hike up prices also in states such as Iowa and Illinois. the math is simple: it takes a gallon and a quarter of petroleum to make a gallon of ethanol.

All one has to do is go from Virginia into a blue state like Maryland. Gas is 30 cents per gallon more expensive for a simple reason; "nanny" states such as Maryland and California tax you to the hilt because they think you're too stupid to know what to do with your own money. Idiotic blending for the sake of the "environment" (read: padding the pockets of interest groups such as Iowa farmers of corn) hike up prices also in states such as Iowa and Illinois. the math is simple: it takes a gallon and a quarter of petroleum to make a gallon of ethanol.

kingof bs: no one knows if prices were manipulated and never will, that is the problem. We didn't know about Enron til the crooks went to prison. Will never know about Cheney's secret energy meetings b/c he was too busy figuring a way to conceal it. When energy execs were asked to testify curiously no one asked them to raise their hands and swear on a bible that there testimony was true like the tobacco execs. Granted there were no hurricanes this summer and that accounts for a significant portion of the drop in prices and Bush's wonderful economy, which according to the Michigan confidence level has dropped precipitously, but there are reasons for voters to be suspicious of the timing and size of the drop. 42% of voters are not dumb as your side wants to urge. But in reality it is totally irrelevant whether or not there was a conspiracy b/w this Administration and the oil industry, b/c Bush's and the Republican party's credibility is so low that perception exist,and guess what, that perception is all that will matter in November.

I'm gonna ride my black helicopter to area 51 and see if George Bush's infernal Katrina causing weather machine and oil price manipulator is still there.

'all these market forces are just too much for those feeble little Lib brains'

here's the moron again with the tinfoil hat 'market forces' LOL-- my dog knows more about market forces than you, kingofbozo.

robGreg, why wouldn't they buy from Venezuela? Coz Mr. Bush has a pissy dislike for him. Everything's prsonal to a small mind.

I don't think Bush personally is behind the falling prices. But the Big Oil companies certainly have a giant incentive to make sure the friendly Republicans stay in power for as long as possible. So if they make a few cents less profit for the short term in an effort to make sure they continue to get their free ride of course they are happy to do so.

I saw an article where Chavez in Venezuela was willing to sell the USA oil at $50 per barrell. A set deal. Despite the the potential volatilty in the market, why did we not entertain the option? why did the mainstream media, WP included, not report this topic?

Whoah - spooky economics is sooo mysterious. Now I understand why there are no Dem economists who don't just make things up. all these market forces are just too much for those feeble little Lib brains so instead, they use a much more interesting and digestible conspiracy. but just think about how a conspiracy like this would be accomplished. how come the NYT hasn't published a tell-all article based on some "secret" memo? Even fake but accurate? you all are just plain loony and now there is no question. we are laughing at you. but it is so much easier than thinking an issue through, so I guess this suits you Dems properly.

The manipulation of price is not at the retail level. Just as Enron and the other power brokers did they manipulated the price at the market level. When you have folks trading future prices that core issue one. the futures market rise prices exponentially over a crisis that has existed since the dawn of time, never interupted oil supply, and constantly has conflicts that are more rhetoric on top of old rhetoric. OPEC controls the prices too. The controlling interest in OPEC are friends of the Admin, and the same thing happened just two years ago. Are Exxon and Mobile manipulating price, not at the retail level, but they are party to the future and OPEC levels.

James, I find your idea of making Republicans pay for the gasoline quite interesting. Just curious, if I vote Democrat and they win, what do I get out of that deal?

MIKE B: See 1990-2000 and what we DIDN'T do to figure out why the companies are getting huge subsidies.

There is something fishy going on.

I was wondering where the record oil company profits were coming from. Didn't Exxon/mobile make $10B in profit last quarter and Chevron $8B? Seemed a little strange when crude was so high.

Now crude has slowly gone down by ~17% but gas prices dropped very quickly down by ~21% just as election season begins. It is hard to believe that the price of a final product would drop more than the raw commodity unless there are other things going on.

If I remember correctly BUSH does have connections to the oil business back in Texas. It might be possible that there is a connection with gas prices. Good luck on explaining this one. My 4th grade daughter figured this one out.

If I remember correctly BUSH does have connections to the oil business back in Texas. It might be possible that there is a connection with gas prices.

The administration definitely has a hand in the manipulation of gas prices to TRY affect the election. For anyone to think different, they are being naive. Remember back in 2001 when all the fat cat oil execs helped the administration craft their energy legislation? They now have more influence in the White House than any other industry in history. Thus, we have seen Exxon, BP, Shell, etc.. with the largest profits in history, and we (taxpayers) are paying the price twofold by giving them HUGE subsidies. What gives? All the administration has to do is make a few calls to Texas and tell their boys to lighten up prices for a few months.. something right out of the Karl Rove play book: fool Americans to think the Republicans actually DO have an energy policy that works for Americans... not just the specials interests.

On November 8th, the day after the elections,when the gas prices start to go back towards $3.oo per gallon everyone who voted Republican should be forced to buy the gas for everyone else for the next two years until the next election.That's the only way they will understand how much this country and our government is influenced by big oil's relationship to the REPUBLICANS.Anwar,car fuel efficiency ,offshore drilling.All issues where big oil and the GOP are linked at the hip.Don't be fooled again.

Is it true that gas prices have dropped just before the last two elections?

Nice to see so many knowledgeable people commenting on this blatant manipulation of prices. To see so many slap down the ignorant clownish rightwingers who tell us 'we don't underatand the marketplace' while babbling some silly incoherent theory they have that corresponds to absolutely nothing factual.

Maybe some of you are younger but I've been around a long time and can remember many, many instances when oil companies have been caught price-fixing. There's nothing new about it. Bush & Cheney don't even need to be directly involved--the oil companaies know who their friends. They also know that Democrats in power might actually look into whether there was a link this year between the highest profits ever recorded by a corporation -- the highest prices ever charged for their products. Hmm, a coincidence?

And don't give me that crap about how I just don't understand the mysterious 'market'. That's exactly what they said about Enron.

ENRON-- hear it? Which one of you wingers will talk about Enron? Which one of you will explain to me how this wasn't BLATANT MANIPULATION?

The oil companies manipulating gas prices? Duh. What easier way is there for these companies to make unlimited campaign contributions than to lower gas prices by at least a third before the November election? No back room, quid pro quo deals need to be made with President Bush; no meetings with Vice President Cheney need to be scheduled. By golly the big oil boys are just lowering the price because they are nice guys. Why it has not even entered their minds that if the Democrats got control of either the House or Senate that they might to roll back sweetheart legislation passed by their lapdogs Republican pals.

We all have seen gas prices go up and down. But how many have seen the price drop nearly $1.00 within a month? I can understand prices can vary by 10 maybe 15 cents, but not by a $1.00 so quickly.

SO I do not buy into the theory that it's only supply and demand. THINK SHEEP THINK

This is how you spell the southwestern Ohio city in question: C-I-N-C-I-N-N-A-T-I. This is how you spell sinking ship: C-H-A-B-O-T.

http://www.takebackcincinnati.com/

Just returned from volunteer work in Cleveland and I can tell you that Blackwell and DeWine have zero credibility when it comes to their economy and what Republican corruption has done to those fine people. I love it that Republicans are convinced that they have a superior turn out machine that will save them from disgusted voters. I really truly hope that you guys keep believing that. That is our best hope for Republican complaceny. Unemployed folks from closed Ohio factories, truck drivers,and conservative rural voters in downstate Ohio fully understand how they have been jerked around regarding fluctuating oil prices and so your insults only insult the voters you seek to attract and will drive them to vote Democrat this November. No manipulation? : Ask the people in California who suffered from rolling blackouts by Enron and the energy industry if their energy prices were manipulated.

First, on the issue at hand, I love how this is spun as a case of paranoia vs. conspiracy. Both of those ideas are ridiculous, in fact. However, there is certainly plenty of reason to speculate about this sudden and precipitous drop in the market retail gasoline prices in the past few months.

Based solely on economic information about the gasoline market, conditions simply have NOT changed as drastically in the market as the prices have.

Is it so unreasonable that oil companies, on their own accord, realizing what friends of their pockets are in office, and what threat may loom, to suppress prices on their own as a sort of insurance policy against what they fear (a Democratically controlled House and Senate)?

Given the history of oil companies manipulating prices for profit, it is absolutely not out of the question. But to suggest the administration's involvement or pushing for it does seem a bit off the wall.

At any rate, there are CLEARLY political undertones to moving gas prices. As to where they really come from, I'd say the market of politics is being played more than the market of gasoline. What will the American people think of that? I don't know, but I suspect we'll find out on November 7th.

And I don't think the oil companies are going to like how the American public feels about political manipulation. Nor will the Republicans.

Second, I had to laugh about the GOPinNC poster above suggesting that the GOP turnout operations make Democratic base turnout/stimulation a moot point.

I don't think these ostriches have any idea whatsoever the kind of freight train that is barreling down on their poorly constructed hobo houses. They're crumbling from the vibrations already, and the train hasn't even hit yet.

Bring on Nov. 7th.

The point is not that prices are manipulated down before November elections ( check the last time prices were down).
But that they are manipulated the rest of the time, up. This ain't no market economy sector.
After November see if you can guess ( a contest?) why the the prices just had to go up.

Zathras,

Actually there is correlation between taxes and economic growth; however, it isn't what most people think. Go back to the Reagan years. After he cut taxes, the budget deficits went through the roof. As a result, between 82 and 88 he raised taxes 4 times and the economy started to grow. The same with Bush I. He raised taxes slightly which started the boom in the economy the Clinton administration received credit for. Bush II has cut taxes and the economy has shown anemic growth and deficits have once again gone through the roof. The reason this happens it the US Government is the largest borrower in the world and the "safest." For businesses to get money, they have to pay a higher interest rate for it. Because of the tax raise of Bush I the government didn't have to borrow as much money which freed more for businesses at a much lower rate which improved growth, bringing in more taxes which lowered the amount of borrowing needed etc.

Have no worries people, the price of gas is going to stay just above the cost effective price of alteritive fuels. Just the facts, sorry

Have no worries people, the price of gas is going to stay just above the coste effective price of alteritive fuels. Just the facts, sorry

JEP - you might want to consider going back on your meds.

JEP - you might want to consider going back on your meds.

JEP - you might want to consider going back on your meds.

Bush doesn't control much of anything and certainly doesn't change the price of gas. He is but a puppet and figurehead for economic and Zionist interests.

Elections are expensive and the winners are purchased with great debts to pay to their financial supporters. After all, they funded the campaigns that gave them a job and make them relevant.

Settembrini;
Unless I am mistaken, the beginning of this corporate energy conglomeration wave you refer to occurred when Reagan was forced by the first neocons in the GOP to take Bush Sr. on as his VP.

This was a shotgun wedding, at the very least, and shortly after the assasination attempt on Reagan by a "crazed" Bush family associate, Texas oil interests took over California oil interests in one of the first big mega-mergers on the books, the one that virtually created the culture of energy derivitives that spawned paper tigers like Enron.

Who knows what sort of intrigue is swirling around in all these coincidences?

But we can all surely speculate that the neocon's constant use of fear and loathing is not confined to their public dealings, they are just as ruthless to each other as they are to us.

Every oil executive called to the Hill was talking about the middle east crisis, Katrina and the Chinese economy being the causes for the shortage and subsequent price increases.

Okay, the ME has calmed down for now and Katrina is long over, but did the Chinese suddenly take all 1.5 billion folks and go back to an agrarian economy? This smells, plain and simple.

Every oil executive called to the Hill was talking about the middle east crisis, Katrina and the Chinese economy being the causes for the shortage and subsequent price increases.

Okay, the ME has calmed down for now and Katrina is long over, but did the Chinese suddenly take all 1.5 billion folks and go back to an agrarian economy? This smelss, plain and simple.

I think that we are asking the wrong question when we ask if the Bush Administration or Republicans are manipulating the price of gas at the pump. More likely is whether the oil companies or Republican-friendly oil-producing companies are manipulating the price of gas and/or crude in the short-term so as to at least try and blunt the political impact on Republicans of high prices. It is unlikely that Bush is, or can, engage is such manipulation, but that does not mean that Bush-friendly companies and/or the "friendly" royal Saudi family couldn't be doing something like that. That would seem to me to be a much more focused and useful inquiry.

To I. Terp,

Hey, I did use the proper single possessive case of "who" in my post.

Fred

To I. Terp,

Hey, I did use the proper plural possessive case of "who" in my post.

Fred

Seems like there are many things people in power could do to manipulate the market.
One person from the oil drum:

" Certainly most of the price change in crude is due to the change in season, inventory overhang, and a lack of disruption in the GOM. However, I can think of three things the administration could do to affect the price of crude in the short term, and we know at least two of these have taken place.
1. Avoid refilling the SPR. Actually drawing down the SPR would be too obvious, but why isn't the US filling the SPR now? It seems as though it would have made sense to begin refilling as soon as the immediate Katrina/Rita draw was over, just in case there was indeed another problem this summer.

2. Stop beating the war drums over Iran. The threat from Iran hasn't changed, so why, a few months ago, were we talking imminent threat and UN action now, only to have almost all talk of this problem suddenly go quiet?

3. What is going on with US military fuel depot supplies? I can't imagine we'll ever know. This is a fairly big consumer, largely controlled by the administration, making unknown short-term decisions. If they had topped off their tanks in the summer and cut back now, they would be another large consumer helping to move prices, and few people would be any the wiser. No doubt the level of inventory of US military depots is a high-security secret. "

http://www.theoildrum.com/comments/2006/9/26/91523/0913/40#40

I am embarrassed for all of you that take so much time to write up these thoughts and opinions and then fail to even check your grammar. I'm amazed at your claims to know so much about a topic, but fail to show any language skills. I read your arguments and then wonder what you say to your child's teacher when you kid fails his test. It must be the teacher's fault because you couldn't possibly have a child with poor skills. You probably make up some argument that suits your need at the time, much like making gasoline a political topic. Maybe you should let your child proofread your entries. That would be a win-win for you and your kid.

Gasoline prices are affected by the government to some extent; I don't think anyone will deny that. The person who votes for a candidate because of gas prices is just as ignorant as the person who votes for a President because the market faired well during his presidency. In fairness to the voter, you'll remember that President in thirty years for the economy. In fairness to the President, there's little correlation. You all act like the President controls the stock market, the gasoline industry, the cost of milk. Yes, he has some impact, but not nearly as much as your everyday stockholder. If it rains, do you point at the president?

I really wonder where all of you were in 1999 when prices went below $1 a gallon. Remember all those strong incentives for the companies to explore for new oil? Remember when the insane profits that oil refining brought in? Oh you don't? That's because it never happened!

Good luck in your campaigns. I hope you all run out of gas on the way to the voting booth. Wouldn't that be the perfect ending.

BTW,

What don't you LIKE about lower gas prices?

to Publis 06.

BP ownes Arco (and also Amoco) and this contributes to the "new world order"?

The BP/Amoco merger happened in 1998 and Arco was in 2000. Now, who was the president then? Whose Dept of Justice approved the mergers?

Excuse me but back in the 70's when we were sitting in gas lines, my X-husband worked at the Exxon refinery in Benicia Ca. They had more product un-refined, sitting in ships, tanks and containers then they had space for. The reason? They wanted to jack up the prices, until the public reached the saturation point and some politicians decided to step up and ask why, then and only then did we suddenly have pleanty of oil! So, don't insult me by stating it's about economics. you have a "good oi oil boy" in the white house and Cheney, who sweats oil and holds secret meetings with the heads of the oil companies and Ken Lay, to set the "energy policy" and Bush holding hands with his good friend the Shiek. You are going to tell me this isn't political? Sorry the public isn't buying it this time, they know that this administration lies, cheats, fabricates and frankly could care less about the American Public, as long as they take care of their big doners and party loyals, so to keep them in power, we have a drop in prices. Don't worry, two months after the election there will some fabricated crises and low and behold they will have to raise the prices. Not buying the B.S. anymore. Sue F

The News Hour looked at a congressional race in Indiana last night. One of the people they talked to was a Republican who voted for Bush and will vote for the current Republican incumbant. She even said she hoped the gas price decline wasn't a manipulation for the election. Democrats are angry with all gas price manipulations and the huge profits the oil companies made during the $3.50 a gallon days. Everybody expects the prices to go right back up after the election. Democrats are also concerned with carbon emissions and want alternative energy. Voting Republican isn't going to help the environment or our having to do business with countries with oil and natural gas who don't like us, especially since Bush became president. We need to change the course in all the areas of government. People seem to think gridlock is a good thing when it comes to keeping Bush from dragging this country down anymore. He's done enough to make America hated in the world over the pursuit of oil and natural gas.

"They had more crude stored in ships and at the refinery then they could use, however, because it was about jacking up the prices they sat on that un refined product..."

And back in the same era, Kansas oil farmers (yes, Virginia, there's lots of oil in Kansas) were advised to cap their marginal wells, and shut down some of the biggger wells, ostensibly to wait for the price of oil to go up from under $10 a barrel to over $20 a barrel. Now it is up to over $50 a barrel, and many of those old wells are being poppoed open, acid is poured down into them to dissolve and open the oil-bearing rock, and they're pumping again.

Energy price manipulation, in order to profit from speculation, is an entirely new derivitive industry, not just part of the old model.

And a volatile one, at that, with risks even bigger than its rewards.

Remember Enron?

Those who claim oil and gasoline are strictly cyclical commodities -- down in the fall, up in the spring -- are simply wrong. Just look at some crude charts. If it was that simple, you should all be millionaires, because you could short oil and energy stocks in the fall and buy them back again in the spring. Unfortunately, this facile analysis doesn't hold true.

Countless factors go into gas prices. One of them happens to be political. Call the people who know these things conspiracy theorists all you want; you'll only make yourself look naive. As Bob Woodward showed, Bush buddy and Saudi Ambassador Prince Bandar promised Bush a drop in oil prices before the election. Recently OPEC has consistently agreed to keep supply high. Coincidence? Make your own decisions. But don't spout inaccurate economic theory in support of your rebuttal.

scootmandubious;
Saw your website and your post, nice site, and a very perceptive post, except for one problem.

"What journalists should now be doing is trying to determine if the Bush administration has done some behind-the-scenes arm-twisting to effect the current price decline, which is conveniently happening right before the mid-term elections."

The problem here, Scoot, is that this "arm-twisting" isn't being done according to just this election cycle, it was done years ago, and set up a pernicious pattern of patronage that repeats as needed by Rove and his neocon Republicans.

That vile Bush/Bandahar covenant is so obscured now by time and events that we are prevented from being able to make direct connections between the price drops and the election cycle, outside the obvious co-incidence, which is really all the proof we should need.

The real key to uncovering the truth about whether gas prices are politically manipulated, is simply to look back at "qui bono", or "who benefits."

Enough Euphrates river water has flowed beneath that blown-up bridge to look back and take stock in the obvious.

Lets see here, ...just who has profitted or benefitted from the mess in Iraq?

Who's fortunes have exploded like a mushroom cloud?(is that what Condi really meant?)

To find out all we need do is look at the oil industry profit margins after-9/11 and see how clearly those patterns reflect a very well-organized effort to create an energy-price roller-coaster so volatile that it can actually have a profound effect on the public psyche about upcoming elections.

All of this is so transparent, too bad our lawmakers can not effect good government, to prevail against this greedy, insatiable culture of corporate manifest destiny.

You may think were wierdos but I can tell you this, back in the 70's when we were sitting in those gas lines, my X- husband worked for Exxon, at the refinery. They had more crude stored in ships and at the refinery then they could use, however, because it was about jacking up the prices they sat on that un refined product until there was enough screaming by the public and politicians asking questions that they finally began to produce again. Don't tell me this is not manipulated by politics. It is, has been and always will be. When you see Bush holding hands with the Shiek, Cheney having his secret energy meetings with Ken lay, et al, there's only one conclusion and that sir is not that were all so stupid to think this is sheer economics. Not buying your B.S.

We all saw the fake announcements by the Saudis, and know that had a lot to do with the "drop" in gas prices.

Those of us who actually invest in energy (I've owned almost every oil and coal firms shares directly at some point) also know the "big announcement" near NoLa was old news, delayed until it was useful (after Labor Day) to Bush.

There is only two things the Feds can do to maniplulate prices, thats to open up the Strategic Reserve or to rescind federal excise taxes on gas. That 42% believe Bush can may them go lower without the above mentioned items tells me 42% are extremely STUPID. Geez,I wonder what party these idiots vote for?

My goodness you people are thick. 11% profit is not out of line in the least. Did you known that Exxon is the world's largest company, that oil is the world's most traded commodity? Now if you have the biggest company trading the most, would you expect that the dollar figure would be high? how about the percentage then? Please repeat your high school math class before you try the more advanced economics.

Help, I didn't get my memo from Dick Cheney today and don't know how much to charge for a gallon of gas. Is this really the direction you want to take to win an election? Perhaps that is why you keep losing.

Yes Ginger, I guess we really think you are that stupid if you believe the current--or ANY--administration has any power to lower gas prices.

The President and Karl Rove control oil prices to manipulate elections? Even the NYT does not believe that bit of baloney.

Read this article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/09/19/business/19place.html?ex=1159329600&en=54f9302753475860&ei=5070&emc=eta1

The fact is that oil is a world wide commodity and many factors change the price of a barrel. The US president (whoever he is) has very little, if any control, over the daily price of oil.

My, my isn't it intersting gas prices have dropped, in an election year, and just months before the final vote is held.
Final proof of price manipulation, of gouging for profits. But has anyone botherd to ask how mmany foreign fingers are in the gas companies pie these days. BP owns ARCO now, so it is no longer an American company, how many others are the same or well on their way; you have to ask that question first. Then ask why they want an input in our elections. Is this all just a nod from the New World Order George Bush the First put us all on notice about years ago?

"If Bush could manipulate the price then why the heck would he have it skyrocket at all. The stupidity of some people, including the Democratic candidate for KY-02 apparently, knows no bounds."

Is it stupid to note that the oil industry made $36 billion last year, the most any company has made in history? And that they are (or were until recently) on track to make even more this year?

There may not be a conspiracy, but there is plenty of circumstantial evidence to support at least speculation of one, imo.

Why are all of you finally waking up to the price of gas?

It's always gone up oh, about the week before Easter. Doesn't matter if Easter is in March, or April. It goes up. Why? Because folks are driving to Grandma's.

It has everything to do with profit.

You wierdos need to find an issues that doesn't make you look so kooky. your presentations here indicate you have no understanding of market economics - something already a problem for Libs who prefer the socialist solution to free markets. Every time you bring this junk up, more and more people think about how much you would raise taxes and how you fault corporations for actually making a profit. then you send your minion slick wilie on TV to make a fool of himself, waggging his finger, acting paranoid and spouting lies about his legacy. Don't any of you understand the Internet, Lexis/Nexis and acceptable research practices. It didn't take long to shoot down bill's mendacious statements.
the real problem is that if and when you find an actual issue to make something of, no one is listening anymore. you cherry pick "secret" reports only to find out that there is more to it. you complain about education reform but remain in the way. you mock fiscal responsibility but vote for more spending and irresponsible programs. you think that retreat wins wars. you always play the victim and rely on the victim population for your 'free' votes. you clearly don't understand the military so you shop for candidates, no matter how paltry, who have any inkling of some military cred. you run candidates out of the party who don't agree 100% with the most leftist agendas. Please get a grip and offer some valid alternatives to policies with which you disagree. Conspiracies, name-calling, lying and selective interpretation is not winning for you as evidenced by the ridiculous performance by good ole slick willie, poor thing.

On my blog I posted a chart that listed the rise and fall of gas prices since the beginning of 2004.

I speculated that this needed to be investigated, especially in light of the administration's secret negotiations with oil companies in setting this nation's energy policy, along with the close ties of Bush and Cheney with big oil interests.

Interestingly right-wingers came to my blog spouting RNC talking points about left-wing paranoia and saying that this always occurred during this time of year.

Well, check out the chart on my site and point to me where a steep decline occured on August 1st.

It's awfully hard for the right-wing to spin when the facts are not on their side.

http://scootmandubious.blogspot.com/2006/09/gas-price-card.html

one-armed gas pumps...

Here's a marketing ploy for the ages...

Gas stations can't compete in the natural world of supply and demand, so they need to come up with new marketing ploys and gimmicks to help bring in the customers...

A few selected gas station pumps should have "slot machine" handles on the side, and whenever we pull up to the pump, we get a chance at winning a free tankful, just by dropping a quarter in and pulling the arm.

Gas stations once competed with each other for business, just like the grocers, the farmers, and the retail merchants must still do just to survive in a free-enterprise community.

I remember the age of gas wars, when a little independent pumper could drop his prices and dominate for a few hours while the competition rested on their laurels.

No more.

The only gas war left is the one being fought against the American people by the oil industry.

And most of our Republican lawmakers are on their side, not ours.

We talk a lot about the obvious effects lower gas prices have on voters.

But we are missing the "Chinese water torture" long-term effect the obvious manipulation has on the public psyche.

Eventually, the masses become the mob if they are treated like one.

"How do you think the poll would have turned out if the question was Bush had "something to do with," or "no influence whatsoever" over oil prices?"

This is the core issue of the "framing" debate.

Even after 9-11, if the poll questions mentioned the name "Bush" the numbers tanked, relative to the same question withouth the name attached.

When asked a question like "Do you think George Bush is doing a good job as president," the popular support numbers never crept up over 50%.

But if the question was framed "Do believe the President is doing a good job" the numbers shot right back up into the 70's.

So, ala Frank Luntz and Karl Rove, the pollsters dropped any reference to George Bush in all 9-11 polls and used only the term "The President."

Americans love their President, but apparently not when they hear his name is Bush...

Polls are too easy to manipulate, due to variable vernacular and linguistic ambiguity. In this day and age, even those poll questions are "spun," not to get to the truth, but to get the desired results.

"For the past several years the Chinese are embarked on a huge arms buildup in a bid to make China a superpower rival to the United States," the editorial read. "China's space program is a crucial part of that buildup.'

AND A BIG THANK YOU TO WAL MART!

And all your numbed-out shoppers.

Without all of you, China would have never grown into a military superpower.

Shoes for battleships...

Now there's a diplomatic coup.

Where the 'intelligence' on Iran is coming from... a war criminal, a convicted arms dealer, the guy who gave us Iran Contra and who is totally discredited by every single one of our intelligence agencies:

'From time to time, I call up a longtime associate and business partner of Manucher Ghorbanifar, the infamous Iran-contra arms dealer and intelligence peddler deemed a fabricator by the CIA who lured the Reagan administration to secretly sell TOW missiles to the Tehran mullahs. This elderly Ghorbanifar associate is a former official in the Shah's government, long financially dependent on Ghorbanifar, whom he serves as a kind of dignified elderly secretary; like many Iranian exiles, he dreams that the mullahs will be overthrown and that he can soon return to his native country from his long exile in France.

Since 9-11, Ghorbanifar and his business associate, both based in France, have tried through various channels and schemes to get back on the U.S. government payroll as intelligence sources on Iran and the Middle East. Their efforts to do so have been thwarted -- until now. The associate told me that he now has channels to the U.S. government, and a response to my inquiry about this from the office of Director of National Intelligence John Negroponte did not include a denial.

Last week, Ghorbanifar's associate claimed to me that the information he is now giving to Washington is from his own sources. On this point, former CIA Paris station chief Bill Murray is skeptical. "He has nobody inside Iran," Murray said, of Ghorbanifar's associate, whom he has met in Paris. "He doesn't call anybody. Nobody comes to see him. Whatever he does, he gets from Ghorbanifar."

Murray says Ghorbanifar and his associate cobble together "intelligence" using translations from regional newspapers and the newsletters put out by the cultish, formerly Saddam Hussein-backed Iranian terrorist group, the Mujahedeen e-Khalq (MEK), which has a large outpost outside Paris; and "then they create stuff." French and German intelligence services have also rejected Ghorbanifar and his associate's intelligence, according to Murray.

"The plain and simple fact is that no intelligence service uses as a source someone who had been proven to provide false information, or information which he cannot source," Murray continued. "This man has consistently done both."

Amazingly, however, like Chalabi and his INC defectors before them, Ghorbanifar and his associate seem to have found new channels open to the Bush administration. And there's precious little evidence that anybody is trying to stop them. '

http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=12059

"the GOP inarguably has the better get out the vote operation.."

You don't have to be a Democrat to vote for one..

How many of those voters the GOP gets out are actually going to vote Republican, no matter who convinces them to actually go out and vote?

A lot of smart Republicans are figuring out how badly they have been misled, so assuming that Republican voter turnout will guarantee a Republican win depends on antiquated models.

It might be true, if the culture of Abramoff/Delay corruption and Rumsfeld's ineptitude, Cheney's constant denial, and Bush's dunderheaded personality, weren't confounding the Republican base daily.

The more voters that turn out this time around, the better it will be for the Democrats, no matter who motivates them to vote.

So a Republican GOTV drive, especially this time around, doesn't assure a Republican win at the polls. It may even help the Democrats.

It is a whole new ball game.

Had to toss this in, from the Allen denial stories throughout the morning message.

Allen has gotten some rather desperate public support from some members of the non-white community lately.

But it is a relatively recent development in his entire political career. In his early days, he was much more interested in cozying up to the old White Virginia ruling class, who considered football almost on a par with war, and were glad to take on this neophyte bigot and use his family name.

Wonder when George Allen and his greedy handlers decided he might want to run for president?

Do you suppose that is about the same time he started courting black voters and other non-whites, and their respective organizations?

It might be interesting to see when Allen's conversion from bigot to philanthropist occurred, relative to his presidential aspirations.

I would guess he used his adopted bigotry in the first place to make points with the dominant southern-state-coach mentality he moved into when his old man got the Redskins job.

Obviously, even when he was in California, his festering bigotry was quite transparent. So it was easy for him to join the prejudice parade when he eventually lived in the midst of it.

That garnered him the necessary peer-support that helped him get into public office in the first place. And back in those days, southern Virginia was still a place where lauding the Imperial Wizard of the KKK was a political asset, a veritable necessity, for anyone wanting to climb the political ladder in the neoRepublican Party of the Old South.

Then, once he had his Virginia old-south constituency behind him, battle-flags a wavin, he began manipulating his image as a race-uniter. He did so by drawing in those easy-buy preachers and powerful uncle-tom politicians throughout Virginia's black community, who were glad to join the team, for a price or a trade-off that surely had much more to do with green money than with black and white racial issues.

So now, they come to his rescue when his true colors (the Confederate battle flag) start peeking out from under his phony personae.

Just plain, simple logic suggests Allen is a bigot by choice and only feigned racially tolerance, in order to get votes.

The administration itself announces over $3.5 BILLION in fraud and waste in Iraq:

'In a little-noticed report Monday, the Government Accountability Office released the latest on the wise and judicious use of taxpayer money in Iraq contracting. It's the biggest number yet in the accounting mess that is the rebuilding of Iraq.

The tally shows that Defense Department auditors have raised questions over $3.5 billion in costs that contractors have charged the government for work in Iraq.'

As you probably know, all government programs [other than those which allow contractors to make a profit without actually doing anything] have been cut, including NASA. So now, the bright idea to fund the space program is to get China involved. So that they can know all our secrets. Brilliant, huh? Hey I'm all for international cooperation, but China?

'The United States has opened unprecedented conversations with the government of China in order to create cooperation on space exploration.

NASA Administrator Michael Griffin is in China at the invitation of Laiyan Sun, administrator of the China Space Agency.

Griffin issued this statement on his trip.

"My goal is to become acquainted with my counterparts in China and to understand their goals for space exploration"

The visit may be unprecedented, but it has huge political implications: Can China be trusted in space?

Houston-based analyst Mark Whittington, in an editorial in The Houston Chronicle, says no.

"For the past several years the Chinese are embarked on a huge arms buildup in a bid to make China a superpower rival to the United States," the editorial read. "China's space program is a crucial part of that buildup.'

Anyone who doesn't understand the way the oligarthchy of "Pioneers" under Bush work is simply demented. Of course they are manipulating the price of gas. The price of gas was artificially high due to the commodities market and all of those investors who were recipients pof the Republican tax cuts to begin with. There has been a concerted attempt to organize them to, now, artificially lower the price of gas. And why not? They get to feed at the public trough under Bush and the right and a two month break before the election to keep their place there is nothing. It's just a part of doing business. Immediately following the election, if Bush and his clodhoppers win, the price will go right back up again.

The Saudi royal family has publicly agreed to keep production up, and therefor prices down before the election cycles, for quite a while now, to help Bush and his neocons keep the public's energy price frustration under very strict election patterned controls.

It is not a secret, I've seen it discussed on more than one public media outlet. I would guess Rove just expects it these days, it goes without asking.

So why do these Bush apologists deny something the Bush administration openly embraces?

C'mon, people, admit it. The price of gas is manipulated outside the standard laws of supply and demand.

Want proof?

Why doesn't Wal Mart sell gasoline for 20 cents a gallon less than their competitors, at all their stores?

Our entire energy market is manipulated from the first Halliburton drill bit cutting the dirt to the last drop that trickles into your SUV's engine.

Anyone who suggests otherwise is either completely ignorant about the laws of supply and demand, or they are just part of the lie.

The laws of supply and demand would have demanded alternatives decades ago.

Either believe it, or go on fooling yourself, there's no middle ground on this one: Energy prices in the 21st Century are not determined by the markets, they are determined by the marketeers.

This entire debate over gas is endemic of the problem with politics - the price goes down every Fall - the fact I have Bush is not going to change this fact

Our Republic is burning and we are still stuck on manipulation politics -

This morning the NYT reports that key former leaders of the ACLU are calling for ouster of many of the current leaders for violating the principles which they are suppose to be endorsing

The case of the ACLU is endemic of the problem - we have lost any real belief systems and now only fight for ourselves regardless of the consequences - lewt the Republic burn

The politicos love these little gas debates - it detracts from the institutionalized corruption coming from both sides of the isle which is destroying our republic

Bobby WIghtman-Cervantes
www.balancingtheissues.com