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Friday Lines:
US House
1. AZ 8
2. CO 7
3. IN 8
4. IA 1
5. IN 2
6. IN 9
7. PA 10
8. CT 2
9. NC 11
10.KY 4
11.FL 13
12.IL 6
13.IL 8 (D)
14.VA 2
15.WA 8
16.NY 26
17.OH 2
18.OH 18
19.PA 6
20.NM 1

US Senate
1. PA
2. MT
3. OH
4. NJ (D)
5. RI
6. MO
7. TN
8. VA
9. MI (D)
10.NV/WA

Governor's
1. NY
2. OH
3. MA
4. CO
5. AR
6. MD
7. MI (D)
8. MN
9. IA (D)
10.ME (D)
11.RI
12.WI (D)
13.OR (D)
14.SC
15.NV
16.KS (D)
17.FL
18.IL (D)
19.CA
20.AK

Man, I recognized that block you guys are standing on in Granville immediately. Did you get to see the Dension campus? Of course, the town only has two blocks of shops and restaurants really...shame that you're not heading west from there into Columbus for OH-15. It's only a half hour away, and the hottest House race in Ohio.

Does anyone else get the sense that OH-18 will be returning to The Fix's next House Line??

Again, all these gutless anonymous posts are ridiculous. If you're going to post something, have the guts to put your damn name on it.

Bill Clinton cut and run from Somalia...right...like by staying there for 6 more months while Republicans were insisting that he leave immediately. Guess it depends what your definition of "cut and run" is.

Clinton launched every operation he could to kill bin Laden, and his administration warned Bush and left them with a plan of attack, but they ignored it until 9/11, failing to understand a Presidential Daily Briefing from August 2001 titled "bin Laden Determined to Attack Inside United States". Then Bush distracted us from his inability and disinterest (as he stated himself on camera) in catching bin Laden by exacerbating terrorism with an unnecessary, immoral, illegal war in Iraq. You realize we're approaching the point where more Americans have died fighting in a nation that never posed a threat to us than did in the 9/11 attacks themselves?

Oh, and on House races, I just came across a Survey USA poll which I was surprised to see found Darcy Burner in a dead heat (50-48) with Dave Reichert in WA-8. Like KY-3, I've always been very skeptical of our chances of taking that seat. But maybe it's possible after all.

http://sandwichrepair.blogspot.com

Yeah, I see your point, let's abandon Democracy entirely and let you become Czar. you seem wise enough to make every decision on the planet. I am sure you are a legend in your own mind, just like your hero Slick willie.

Do you all always live in this world where you just can't respond in any way that actually makes one bit of sense?

Remember we were stupid enough to elect Jimmy Carter once upon a time. we learned from our mistake and have steadily elected Rs ever since, except that one little blip when we forgot our senses and fell for the scam.

It just seems none of you sages has any faith in anything - not elections, not politicians, not government, not the military, not religion. why waste your time then?

I offered a valid point by point explanation as to why Padgett would win and the response was pure garbage, as usual. Your brains must be imploding from the lack of sustainance there.

What KOZ fails to remember is that the Palestinian people, the Iranian people, the Lebanese people, and the Egyptian people all held democratic elections recently. By overwhelming margins they elected Hamas, Ahmadinejad and the same "hard liners" who want nuclear arms for Iran, Hizbulla, and the Muslim Brotherhood. The lofty aims and aspirations of these democratically elected governments is to destroy the state of Israel, murder every Jew in the Middle East, and exterminate as many Amercian's as they can. So much for "democracy".

Isn't that the problem actually, the President does have the courage of convictions; which are not well founded, thought out or reconsidered when they need to be.

Courage morphed into hard-headedness; except he and his fellow believers don't realize it. (Interesting isn't it how "adapting" has become one of their buzz words.)

'Actually the Iraqis did choose. they voted in a representative democracy and their leaders are now the ones who are in charge. Much like this country.'

And for those of us old enough to remember, how many times did the Vietnamese have democratic elections while we fought in their Civil War? Time after time after time...

This country just doesn't learn. We threw out the Powell Doctirne, started at Square One and are ending up at the same place again.

'this president has the courage of his convictions'

LOL -- SUCKER.

'Actually the Iraqis did choose. they voted in a representative democracy and their leaders are now the ones who are in charge. Much like this country.'

--Yes, I hear Bill Frist has a private militia, much like Moqtada al Sadr, which every day goes out and tortures a couple dozen Democrats. [God, wouldn't the wingers love it if our government was more like Iraq's].

Actually the Iraqis did choose. they voted in a representative democracy and their leaders are now the ones who are in charge. Much like this country. Why is it so hard to understand that taking a poll does not change the power structure of a Democracy. I suppose you miss getting to vote on where clinton would take his vacation. that is the sign of some sort of psychological weakness, not the mark of a leader. Presidents have to do unpleasant and unpopular things once in a while, although you wouldn't know it from Slick Willie's tenure. this president has the courage of his convictions and that is why he beat that sad sack Kerry who has no convictions whatsoever. I may not agree with even half of what Bush does or thinks, but it is better than the alternative.

I am not here to respond to your childish demands. Just as you always refuse to respond to any requests for facts from me. My simple response, just so you can stop stomping your feet, is that Padgett is a long standing representative of the community, is well-known, has a stand on every issue and more closely aligns with the personality and morality of the area. Space on the other hand has all his eggs in the 'Ney is crooked basket' and has made almost no policy prescriptions. the gas prices, culture of coruption and the rest of that silliness has run its course and left those folks high and dry. running out on another war is not playing well and the most recent poll shows a split right down the middle. the economy is the next best thing and everyone knows that Dems always screw that up. but the underlying 57% base for Rs is a huge mountain to climb and Padgett will turn on the funds once her campaign gets a little more established. the Laura Bush example shows the money is coming in. not so for Space case who is struggling to get any national support from an over-extended DNCC. You can count this seat to remain R.

...F&B, it could be that Rush and the other useful idiots of the right wing wind machine didn't have anything to say about it. Rush gets off on this tangent about football every once and a while and KOZ dosn't have any answers. So he and the other brain dead attacks dogs of the right just spins in one place.

I see that Zouk has NOTHING TO SAY abt the topic of this thread (as I had asked), that being Zack Space vs. Padgett/Ney and the big trouble the Ohio GOP is currently in.

and NOTHING TO SAY abt his definition of "Big G"

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.........

The Ohio booze cruise is missing a cultural factor which will impact the choice between Padgett and Space. If OSU is still No. 1 in the national collegiate polls, Ohioans will vote their base beliefs. If it drops out of the Top Ten, they will get nervous, second guess themselves and impulse-vote the opposition. In the final analysis it is always about FOOTBALL during October/November for the Buckeyes.

"fact-challenged blithering drunk bozo"
"with a thesaurus and a keyboard"

"maybe he should write for the Washington Times?"

They already have one...

"fact-challenged blithering drunk bozo"

you left out
"with a thesaurus and a keyboard"

...a very dangerous combination.

maybe he should write for the Washington Times?'

He's too illiterate and juvenile even for them.

oops; thought I was pasting a paragraph, it was a whole page... like I tell my children, we ALL do something STUPID now and then, just be willing to admit it and either fix it ar take responsibility for it...

Try again...From today's buried pages of the WaPo;
"A strong majority of Iraqis want U.S.-led military forces to immediately withdraw from the country, saying their swift departure would make Iraq more secure and decrease sectarian violence, according to new polls by the State Department and independent researchers."

Lets have a vote...
Let the Iraqi's decide. Do we stay or go? Let them choose.

Wouldn't that be the democratic thing to do?

But, then, maybe they are just naive little children who need our good American parenting...

washingtonpost.com's Politics Blog
About This Blog | Meet Chris Cillizza | RSS Feed (What's RSS?)
Ohio's 18th: Voters Consider Ethics Scandals

Posted by
Chris Cillizza
» About Chris
GRANVILLE, Ohio -- Your Ramblers spent the morning at a fundraiser for state Sen. Joy Padgett, the Republican candidate for the 18th district seat being vacated by Rep. Bob Ney (R), who announced in mid-September that he will plead guilty to a federal bribery charge. The guest of honor was none other than First Lady Laura Bush.

While waiting for the First Lady to arrive, we talked to a number of folks who had paid between $100 and $1,000 to attend the event. We wanted to find out whether the scandals surrounding Ney and Ohio Gov. Bob Taft (R), who will leave office at the end of his current term, will have any impact on their vote.

Some, like Vicki Sugar of Granville, said the ongoing ethics problems have turned her off from politics entirely. "This is the first time I have felt I wanted to back out," she said. (See the video below.)

Sugar's friend, a woman named Marilyn Fields, said that "character really counts" and that she was "disappointed" with politicians on both sides of the aisle. Both Sugar and Fields said the main reason they had decided to attend the event was the chance to meet Laura Bush -- not show support for Padgett.

Laurie Pitcock, anoither Granville resident, said the constant barrage of negative news about politicians and the increasing levels of partisanship have left her increasingly disillusioned about the two parties. "I'd love to get beyond party lines and get things done," said Pitcock. She added that on some issues -- like the environment -- she aligns with Democrats, but on the issues most crucial to her the Republican party still better represents her view.

She was not alone. Several other attendees said that no matter how unhappy they might be with Ney, Taft or Republicans in general the alternative is not palatable.

Take Marilyn Jenson, for example. While she called the Ney situation "unfortunate" she quickly pointed out: "We'll never go over to the other side no matter what."

To win, Padgett needs a lot of people who think just like Marilyn Jenson. Even though President George W. Bush carried this district with 57 percent in 2004, the weight of multiple GOP scandals has put the race in play. Attorney Zack Space has focused his campaign almost entirely on the "cost of corruption" argument, which may or may not have saliency without Ney on the ballot.

Padgett acknowledged that "people are very disappointed with what happened," but added, "they view me as a fresh start."

Click on the image below to watch to watch Ohio voter Vicki Sugar talk about recent ethics scandals.

(Video by washingtonpost.com's Chet Rhodes).

By Chris Cillizza | September 26, 2006; 4:04 PM ET | Category: Ohio River Ramble
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"Take Marilyn Jenson, for example. While she called the Ney situation "unfortunate" she quickly pointed out: "We'll never go over to the other side no matter what."

The really tragic stupidity of the brainwashed -- these are people who whine about paying taxes, then think the fact that their respresentative has been stealing them blind is simply 'unfortunate'. What does it take to make you see that you're simply being played for a sucker?

Repubicans are sure lucky. They have the dumbest, most credulous people on earth as their base. But of course, that's no accident.

Posted by: drindl | September 26, 2006 04:18 PM

Is no one going to comment about the ridiculousness of paying between $100-1000 simply to meet Laura Bush? I do think, however, that it's an interesting point. In 04 there was a lot of concern that women didn't like Teressa Heinz Kerry, and that while it may not have made a serious impact on John Kerry's own outcome, that apparently these things do matter at least enough to shell out some cold hard cash for a candidate you couldn't care less about.

Also, and I am sure some pollster out there has looked into this, but how well does Hilary poll with soccer moms? You have to wonder how women especially would feel about having her as their first female president. She would gain a place in history books instantly (not that she hasn't already) and I think they would consider long and hard about 1) if she is the role-model they want for their young girls and 2) the kind of legacy she would leave as America's first women chief executive.

Posted by: Iammpb | September 26, 2006 04:25 PM

An America prepared to casually toss out the most fundamental principles of international humanitarian diplomacy -- along with basic human decency and the rule of law as side helpings -- is not a country others are going to want to cooperate with. It will constitute a threat to their own interests and values. Nor will it be a country blessed with a lot of accurate intelligence. As Soviet dissident Vladimir Bukovsky has pointed out, an intelligence service shot-through with demands that it torture people "degenerates into a playground for sadists," the service itself "an army of butchers" skilled at terrorizing its victims but hardly capable of unraveling complicated investigations.

It's a grim future brought to us by grim and deranged men -- by people who seem to have developed an unhealthy level of admiration for America's enemies. (They want the country they run to transform itself into a facsimile of its evil adversaries.) It's a future in which it may become increasingly hard for decent citizens of this country to say truthfully that they're proud to be Americans.

Posted by: | September 26, 2006 04:33 PM

'I hear the Senate is planning to put the combined the torture and spying bill that Mitch McConnell introduced last Friday to the vote. It's much more efficient to destroy the constitution with one big bill they can hold over Democrats' heads like a samurai sword if they fail to vote for it. Very clever.'

Even Goebbels couldn't have done it better.

Posted by: joanNA | September 26, 2006 04:38 PM

Bush-Ney-Padgett and ethical standards mentioned on the same page is an oxymoron. Let's look at Ms. Padgett. She and her husband ran up millions of dollars in personal bills, living the high life and, then, filed ofr bankruptcy...becoming the poster children for deadbeats used by Congress when it passed that legislation to begin with. They managed to wreck the lives aboiut 40 people who worked for their company. In addition to stiffing people she powes money too, Ms. Padgett was the poliitcian who attacked Terry Anderson, showing photo's of him with Hizbulla terrorists, and failing to mention that Mr. Anderson was a captive of them. She is also one of the many Republican politcian's who makes noise about pornography and actually sees to it that nothing is done about it because at the same time she (along with a lot of other Republican's) is one of the single largest recipients of money from that industry. If she wins, and I don't think even Ohio voters are that dumb, she will immediately become one of the ten slimiest politcians in Washington and I would take bets she would be indicted for bribes and corruption within 12 months.

Posted by: MikeB | September 26, 2006 04:53 PM

Thanks MikeB--here's a little backstory:

In her 2004 bid for a second term in the Ohio Senate, Padgett was challenged by Democratic Terry Anderson of Athens, Ohio, who in the 1980s had been held hostage by Islamic radicals in Lebanon. During her race against Terry Anderson, Padgett accused Anderson of being a member of the "Blame America crowd", and campaign fliers showed a photograph of Anderson in a meeting with a leader of Hezbollah. In response, Anderson said, "He and his brothers were the ones who kidnapped me, chained me, blindfolded me and beat me. My political opponent uses a picture of that interview to try to win an election."

On June 15, 2006, Padgett and her husband Donald filed for personal bankruptcy. Their U.S. Bankruptcy Court filings listed $1.16 million in debts against $202,143 in assets. Padgett said most of the debt came from Main Office Supply Co., which the couple owned; it filed for bankruptcy in 2005. Her husband ran the business for three decades; she was the company treasurer. The Coshocton business began experiencing financial troubles in 1999; it went from 40 employees to about eight when it closed.

--Note that Padgett was treasurer of the company when she and her husband bankrupted it. Is that the experience republicans are looking for in elected officials? so she can do the same to our country? Ain't it the republican way.

Posted by: drindl | September 26, 2006 05:01 PM

Like taking candy from a baby, Space might as well relocate to outer space. a 57% tailwind is impossible to overcome. Keep dreaming. these people aren't stupid enough to vote D - no matter what. that is the stats of the electorate because of the failed policies and ideas put forth by Ds.

Posted by: kingofzouk | September 26, 2006 05:04 PM

Why would Chris ask people at a Republican fundraiser if the scandals will impact their vote? How absurd! Do you expect to hear objective responses at a Republican event? Call me naive, but I think that if they are attending a Padgett event, chances are they are not persuadable voters or disillusioned Republicans. Why don't you talk to average folks on the street?

Posted by: Partisan Democrat | September 26, 2006 05:12 PM

you Clintons are so predictable - go ugly early and stay away from the issues at all cost. no sense talking about anything that actually might matter. Allen is a Jew, Steele is an oreo, Padgett once had money trouble. where do these people stand on an issues you feel comfortable debating? What's that - you don't feel comfortable debating any issues, that's what I thought and it shows you bigots.

He ran a company for 30 years, yet you focus on the failure. why? Is your life so in despair? It sounds like they personally tried to bail out a corporation. would you? no, you are a perennial victim. I thought it was the government's fault that that location had financial trouble those years? which is it?

Posted by: kingofzouk | September 26, 2006 05:14 PM

Chris - please comment on this scandal out of Charlie Bass' office. What do you think??

http://www.wmur.com/politics/9936715/detail.html

Posted by: NH | September 26, 2006 05:15 PM

Mike - quit talking nonsense and making up your own facts. Please show me the donations you are talking about from her FEC report. you know, the one that lists all donations? can't do it? didn't think so. It's not there. Have you no sense of propriety?

this is why Dems have no credibility with the public, every fact that is checked is a lie - just like slick willie.

Posted by: kingofzouk | September 26, 2006 05:20 PM

presented with facts, republicans spin spin spin. bozo is spinning so fast he'll probably vomit all over us. but then that's what he usually does.

Posted by: | September 26, 2006 05:55 PM

It is indeed unfortunate that certain constituents, fully aware that a candidate for office from their party is ethically "challenged", will still repose trust in that person to represent her interests before the Congress.

When it comes to like minds, I guess GW is right. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, ... you can't get fooled again.

Posted by: Todd B. | September 26, 2006 05:56 PM

KOZ- I tried to answer you with web site citations but it was blocked. But, we already went through this the last time and, after it was established that Republican's WERE the overwhelming recipients of this money, you answered with some lame comment like "its harmless visual stimulation". The fact is, if we wanted to clean up the porno industry in this country, we would simple arrest all Republican;s becasue, from what I am able to determine, most of them are perverts. If anyone else cares to look at the fact simple use YAHOO and type in "adult film industry political contributions". The lead off ABC news story is most nteresting! Then, do a search for "ADELPHI political action commitee" to see the list of names these sleezy people give to....

Posted by: MikeB | September 26, 2006 05:57 PM

todd, it's because they really don'give a damn about the country -- just about being 'right'. witness the delusional, fact-challenged blithering drunk bozo who hangs out here--rather die than admit that everything he beleives in is a farce.

Posted by: amused | September 26, 2006 06:00 PM

Condoleezza Rice, in previous statements to Congress explaining why the Bush administration had not been able to prevent 9/11, said that they had no idea bin Laden posed such a great threat, and that they were not worried about him before 9/11. Now she is saying that she and the Bush administration were aggressive at pursuing bin Laden. She is lying about one or both of these statements.

Posted by: | September 26, 2006 06:06 PM

The interesting point of this story is that there actually were people at a fundraiser for Padgett who are not likely to vote for the candidate! I've gone to fundraisers, heck, I've even had fundraisers, and believe me, you're preaching to the choir there. If Chris was able to find two people who are hesitant about the candidate at her own fundraiser, boy is she in trouble!

Posted by: NoVA | September 26, 2006 06:37 PM

Yeah, Chris, don't you think it's kind of silly to ask people at a fundraiser for candidates what they think of said candidate? Couldn't you ask people on the street or something?

Posted by: drindl | September 26, 2006 06:39 PM

"no matter what..."
...if Lucifer was the only one on the ballot with an R behind his name, this lady would vote for him?

Wonder if she's also an evangelical fundamentalist...

Anyone want to bet?

Posted by: JEP | September 26, 2006 06:51 PM

CriminaliZing the practice of Christianity:

' Two Presbyterian ministers were among 71 people arrested during a series of peaceful protests against the Iraq war Tuesday, said a spokeswoman for a group participating in the protests.

Demonstrators held sit-ins, prayer services and sing-alongs at four locations in the Capitol complex, including the central atrium of the Senate Hart Office Building.

Among those arrested during the demonstrations were two Presbyterian ministers, a Catholic activist and a member of a Quaker group, said Jennifer Kuiper, spokeswoman for The Declaration of Peace, one of the groups participating in the protests.

Despite a rising tide of war opposition, the protesters said they represent no party or political movement.

Baptist minister Jamie Washam of Wisconsin, who led an interfaith service during the protests, said she is adamantly opposed to the war.

"My congregation wants peace," she said. "And I think it's an offense to God."

Posted by: JOANNA | September 26, 2006 06:54 PM

"Now she is saying that she and the Bush administration were aggressive at pursuing bin Laden. She is lying about one or both of these statements."

Wasn't it Condi who suggested "minor terrorist groups like Al Queda" were inconsequential, and represented a policy she described as "feckless and naive"?

Posted by: JEP | September 26, 2006 06:55 PM

That would be her, JEP. Where is Tina to defend her?

And Chris, actually, this was a good way to illustrate the psychographic of the base -- that no matter what republcans in power do, what crimes they are guilty of, the base will continue to blindly, braindeadly support them. Just like the Germans did Hitler.

Posted by: drindl | September 26, 2006 07:37 PM

Now, JEP, there's nothing at all wrong with Evangelicals. Most of them are somehwat conservative, but they really do care about morality and, if I remember the days of Vietnam, it was AFTER all of those Christian Evangelical's decided that the war was just plain wrong that we bounced out of there fast. The same thing is happening again...including the Nixon like like of character in Bush and his "team". They and this stupid war will end up over and thank God for it! Thuis time, though, I don't want another Nixon walking around with his apologists, attempting to rewrite history. I want Bush and Cheney and Rove and the rest of them in prison, humiliated and forever marked and remembered as the scumbags they are.

Posted by: MikeB | September 26, 2006 07:42 PM

I just got back spending 3 weeks in Cleveland with the Brown/Strickland campaign and the people I spoke to on their streets, groceries and Rapid Transit seemed pretty universally fed up with the corruption of Noe, Blackwell and Taft and are more than ready for a change in their government and a new direction for Ohio. They have had it with this crowd and its totally odd that Chris didn't pick this up but it sounds like he is in a southern conservative part of Ohio that does not reflect the unhappy mood of that state.
Strickland is ahead by 21% points in a recent Plain Dealer Ohio poll and Brown by 6-10% points. That is not by accident, and the story you posted about the Padgett race and blind loyalty to party does not reflect the feelings of folks in northern Ohio by any stretch of the imagination. Over a third of Ohio voters describe themselves as independents and don't identify with either party in thir most recent primary.

Posted by: Ira | September 26, 2006 08:38 PM

Chris: have to agree with the other posters. Asking people who are paying a bunch of money to attend a Republican fund-raiser if they would vote Democrat is, frankly, more than a bit looney. Hey, do you think your bosses could send you on a road trip through Italy so you could head down to Rome to ask the Pope if he's Jewish?

Following this statement "Sugar's friend, a woman named Marilyn Fields, said that "character really counts" and that she was "disappointed" with politicians on both sides of the aisle. Both Sugar and Fields said the main reason they had decided to attend the event was the chance to meet Laura Bush -- not show support for Padgett" you should have asked Ms. Fields what Padgett's opponent stood for in several major policy areas. That would have been good journalism.

My bet on her answer: a blank look, followed by an attempt to not answer the question. That would have provided an objective context in which to evaluate her commentary. Like most die-hard GOPer's, total ignorance of the alternative is the most blissful state.

Posted by: Judge C. Crater | September 26, 2006 10:28 PM

And another thing: "Laurie Pitcock, anoither Granville resident, said the constant barrage of negative news about politicians and the increasing levels of partisanship have left her increasingly disillusioned about the two parties."

Gee, since all the negative news has been about Republicans I guess that means that she thinks that 1+1 = 1. Where do you find these people?

Posted by: Judge C. Crater | September 27, 2006 12:21 AM

"Like taking candy from a baby, Space might as well relocate to outer space. a 57% tailwind is impossible to overcome. Keep dreaming. these people aren't stupid enough to vote D - no matter what. that is the stats of the electorate because of the failed policies and ideas put forth by Ds."

That's silly - in 2004 Chet Edwards overcame a much bigger Bush number than that, and Bush was actually on the ballot that year. It can be done. Second, Bush would not likely get 57% in the OH-18 if he were running this year. Third, instead of looking at Presidential numbers, you might want to look at the polling done for the actual race here. Even Padgett's own poll had her behind. She might win, but she's losing right now and is in no way a slam dunk winner.

Posted by: JoeyJoeJoe | September 27, 2006 12:54 AM

NoVa is right. It is amazing that guests at a fundraiser are considering not to vote for the host. Padgett's base is soft.

Unless Padgett turns it around many staunch Republicans will stay home. The good government folks will turn out in droves.

Posted by: Yockel | September 27, 2006 04:13 AM

I am not so sure that they are soft, I just think they feel embarassed admitting support. I am sure that when they go in to vote, they will have no problems.

Posted by: Karen | September 27, 2006 10:24 AM

"it was AFTER all of those Christian Evangelical's decided that the war was just plain wrong that we bounced out of there fast."

I guess my problem with this whole issue is embedded in this one sentence..

Evangelicals aren't the ones who "decide" if war is wrong, Jesus condemned all types of violence.

If these people are truly evangelical Christians, the Holy Spirit should have influenced them much sooner, both then and now, to take the path to Peace, not war.

They shouldn't call themselves Christians until they espouse Christian doctrine, not mortal, politically expedient doctrine.

Defending war and torture, or even ignoring it, is not the work of Christians.

If they are so close to God, why does it take the Holy Spirit so long to reach them?

Posted by: JEP | September 27, 2006 11:09 AM

"fact-challenged blithering drunk bozo"

you left out
"with a thesaurus and a keyboard"

...a very dangerous combination.

maybe he should write for the Washington Times?

topic of this thread - I am so sorry to introduce an 'issue' to you Dems. I know it is mostly unfamiliar to you. An issue is something that a politician has an idea or policy or approch to. It is quite contrary to your usual MO which is name-calling, personal attacks and truth twisting.
I suggest you look into getting some 'issues' that the voters could decide upon. I know this homework assignment is difficult because you will have to come up with some original ideas on how to solve the many problems we find ourselves in. but if you eliminate just 10% of the effort you spend on mindlessly bashing Bush, you will have plenty of time. Let me know what you come up with.

and BTW, the ideas have to SOLVE the problems not exacerbate them. this requirement excludes: soak the rich, cut and run, terrorists rights at the expense of citizens, save SS, teachers rights at the expense of students, any lies that bill clinton has uttered, minimum wage, price fixing, etc.

"I know if Osama had a vote, he would be voting for the dems."

Bhoomes - I don't know if you say these things because you believe them or just to get a head of steam going, but you're wrong on this one. W has been Osama's dream President. Instead of staying the course and focusing on wiping out Al Kaeda in Afganistan and Pakistan, he sent most of the troops to a needless and destabilizing war in Iraq that gave Osama two gifts: 1) it got rid of an anti-Islamist tyrant who Osama despised and who had previously made Iraq a dangerous place for Al Kaeda; and 2) it destabilized Iraq to the point that it has gone from being Al Kaeda-free to being the center of Al Kaeda activity in the middle east. Osama loves W.

Meant to say that bush and osama's families are very tight -- but we all knew that, right? oil is thicker than water.

"Can we get off the river ramble already and get back to the line!!?? What happened to the Tuesday/Friday updates!!? This river ramble is getting old and VERY boring!" - Scott

Agreed.

Your Preference - (Proud Mary) Rollin' On the River by:

Creedence Clearwater Revival,

Ike & Tina Turner, or

Chris C. and the WaPo Boys

"I know if Osama had a vote, he would be voting for the dems."

Are you kidding? Shrub is a 24K golden gift from Allah as far as OBL is concerned. He gave him free reign to attack the WTC by ignoring all the obvious warnings AND seasoned advice. Then he stupidly blundered into Iraq, creating thousands of new terrorists where none were before AND completely invigorating Al Quada in Iraq. Now both Afghanistan and Iraq are on the verge of becoming, well, Afghanistan all over again. OBL probably worships a cardboard cutout of GWB in his cave somewhere on the Pakistan-Afghanistan border.

GWB doesn't have the guts to make a move in Iraq that doesn't end up helping OBL. "Stay the course!" Oooh, that's such a novel statement and the 'course' is working really well right now isn't it? Let's do more of the same! Einstein's definition of insanity comes to mind.

'didn't Osama release a video right before Kerry's losing effort in favor of the giggilo'

Not sure what word is being invented here--but that whole video thing was to help G Bush, right? Because Osama and Bush's are very close, as we all know.

'translation :Dems want Big G and to kill capitalism.'

More babytalk drivel.

KOZ, can you at least try to post your ramblings on the topic of the thread?

If not, maybe you can at least give us your convoluted definition of "Big G" for us normal folks, since you seem to applaud expansion of executive powers to a 1984-like atmosphere.

didn't Osama release a video right before Kerry's losing effort in favor of the giggilo?

why we will win:
"We need a windfall profits tax, because these profits have been absolutely obscene." Levin failed to note that at $2.15 trillion, 2005 federal revenues reached yet another record, having risen nearly 300 percent since 1980." - Tamny

translation :Dems want Big G and to kill capitalism.

and "real GDP has expanded 19 consecutive quarters, Industrial production ... has expanded for 39 months, non-farm payroll employment has expanded by 5.7 million new jobs since Aug. 2003, Next month, the expansion becomes the fourth longest of the postwar era. The ability of lower taxation and reasoned monetary stimulus to bolster the U.S. economy should never be underestimated." - Kaza

you can't fight that with name-calling, chanting and empty slogans.

'I know if Osama had a vote, he would be voting for the dems.'

It's truly tragic that wht passes for politicl discourse is such childish, mindless drivel.

Leaving Iraq in the hands of the Iraqi Parliament and security forces IS the winning strategy. Occupation is not. Having the Iraqi govt beat back the jihadists (instead of attrition by occupation) would be the ultimate victory for Democracy. The only way for that to happen is for troops to re-deploy and get out of the civil conflict. That Bush and NeoCons dont see that is their downfall.

CC said: "the GOP's statewide problems aren't necessarily a factor in the 18th"

Hahahahaha. Kidding right?

Laura is as much a weasel as her husband...and just as much an embarrasment to the country. Unless the people of Ohio are completely brain dead, Laura's fixed "warm" smile is going to ring a little false. I swaer, the entire Bush clan are the biggest bunch of con artists this country has seen in some time. Only Laura could manage to make even Hillary look good.

For uncensored news please bookmark:

www.onlinejournal.com
www.takingaim.info
www.wsws.org
otherside123.blogspot.com

Court victory lets preserved Ohio 2004 ballots tell new tales of theft and fraud as indictments and convictions mount
y Bob Fitrakis & Harvey Wasserman

Online Journal Guest Writers
Ohio election protection activists have won a landmark court battle to preserve the ballots from 2004's disputed presidential election, and researchers studying those ballots continue to find new evidence that the election was, indeed, stolen. Among other things, large numbers of consecutive votes in different precincts for George W. Bush make it appear ever more likely that the real winner in 2004 should have been John Kerry. Meanwhile, indictments and prison terms are mounting among key players in that tainted contest.

In King Lincoln Bronzeville Neighborhood Association et. al. v. J. Kenneth Blackwell, three community groups and five individuals have won a precedent-setting federal decision preserving the ballots from the 2004 election. By federal law those ballots could have been destroyed en masse September 3, twenty-two months after the November 2, 2004 balloting. Republican Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell gave every indication that he would order the records to be destroyed as soon as he could. Admissions have already come from a few counties that illegally disposed of election-related materials well before the federal deadline. By law, all such documents were to be preserved, under lock and key, right up to the federal deadline.

While running the 2004 election, Blackwell served as the very active co-chair of Ohio's Bush-Cheney campaign. He is now the GOP nominee for governor, but is trailing substantially in all major polls behind Democratic Congressman Ted Strickland.

Blackwell was put on notice by Columbus Attorney Cliff Arnebeck and others who filed the King Lincoln suit contending illegal discrimination against black and young voters in 2004. The suit is based on widespread allegations involving mal-distribution of voting machines, dubious vote counts, race-based voter suppression and many other questionable occurrences before, during and after the 2004 balloting. The suit asked Judge Algernon Marbley of the federal district court in Columbus to order Blackwell to force Ohio's 88 county boards of elections (BOEs) to preserve ballots and other election-related materials so the full extent of the allegations could be proven.

For the rest of this article please go to:

http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_1251.shtml

The NIE also said if we prevail in Iraq, the jihadists will be demoralized. But if the dems and Drindl have their way, they will cut and scamper in Iraq thereby embolding the terrorists the same when Clinton and the Dems cut and ran in Somalia. I know if Osama had a vote, he would be voting for the dems.

Before the whole world becomes involved in the violence building because of the war in Iraq we should pull out. This is not a problem that we should continue to ponder. Americans should have only one response to an administration that refuses to see the truth, get rid of the whole bunch of these war crazed leaders.

simple --pot calling the ketle black

Well you certainly 'sound' like simple children.

space: Bob Ney and Bush are crooks
Padgett : they don't seem to be here on the ballot
space: I have nothing else

'At a joint press conference with Mr. Bush, Afghan President Hamid Karzai echoed the president's sentiment.
"They came to America on September 11th, but they were attacking you before September 11th in other parts of the world. We are a witness in Afghanistan to what they are and how they can hurt. You are a witness in New York. Do you forget people jumping off the 80th floor or 70th floor when the planes hit them? Can you imagine what it will be for a man or a woman to jump off that high?" he said. '

Isn't this the most pathetic flogging and milking of 9/11 you ever heard? From Karzai, Conoco exec and former actor....

I think Scott has hit it on the head--so few posts.

Chris, you guys have had your vacation and we're tired of ohio already. Get back to work.

Can we get off the river ramble already and get back to the line!!?? What happened to the Tuesday/Friday updates!!? This river ramble is getting old and VERY boring!

OK, so we have had moral confusion before as a nation, just how does that assuage or temper the current confusiuon?

I agree with your assessment, but it is goiong off on a tangent that has little to do with the discourse at hand; that the Bush administration is trying to call mental clarity on the part of the public "confusion."

So what's your argument?
That its OK to be morally confused as long as it isn't slavery?
Or it that our current moral confusion is acceptable because we've been even more confused before?

What is your point?

Have to agree with you Andy that slavery was pretty much the ultimate evil.

However, to be fair, torture is getting there. Arresting and torturing and possibly murdering people who may be innocent is getting there.

The moral confusion in some evangelicals, who would deny the teachings of Jesus to support the teachings of Bush -- that's getting there.

The insitutionalization of what is essentially organized crime into the structure of government is getting there.

Watch out for more of this from the administration -- more talk of how 'confused' we are [Rumsfeld said it recently about Colin Powell, too]-- as if we were simple children. The clearer it becomes, the more desperately they will try to cloud it.

"We have never had such pervasive moral confusion in our political history"

How about Slavery? What is happening in our country now pales in comparison.

"and that media accounts were meant to confuse Americans.."

One of the standard responses from cult brainwashers is to tell you that you are confused when you start to actually figure things out and question their methods.

This is the ultimate double-speak, calling clarity "confusion". It sure doesn't add any clarity, but gives the hopelessly misguided another excuse for maintaining their confused loyalties.

...confused loyalties such as evangelical preachers openly supporting Bush's torture policies.

...confused loyalties such as capitalists giving the nod to no-bid contracting.

...confused loyalties such as virtuous Texans defending a weasel like Tom Delay.

We have never had such pervasive moral confusion in our political history.

Looks like our military leaders are figuring it out, but the public has Fox News to keep them cloudy-minded.

Bush's twisting and spinning of it to his own advantage represents the worst of that confusion; the naked Emporer bragging about his new suit of clothes...

Worst Congress Ever:

"WASHINGTON - With less than a week before Congress begins its fall recess, Sen. Arlen Specter said he doesn't expect much action on the terrorism interrogation bill that's attracted so much attention.

Or on the bill regarding President Bush's secret surveillance program.

Or on comprehensive immigration reform.

Specter, a Pennsylvania Republican and the chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, sees a heavy congressional agenda but little hope for completing it this week as Republicans head home to concentrate on retaining control of the Senate and the House of Representatives in the November 7 elections.

"We're unlikely to finish up very much, and we've got a lot to do," Specter said in a speech Monday at the National Press Club. "I've never seen so much work left to do."

Didn't accomplish a single thing. Why are we paying for rubber stamps? Why bother? Oh yeah, they brought up two bills on the earth-shattering subjects of flag burning and gay marriage --which would accomplish exactly nothing and which they knew would fail. It really doesn't get any more cynical than this.

Elsewhere in Ohio GOP news:

Editors questioning an article by Schmidt
WASHINGTON - An editorial published recently in newspapers under a Miami Township congresswoman's name was nearly identical to one released by another Ohio congresswoman in July.

An article ran under Rep. Jean Schmidt's name in several southwest Ohio newspapers in late August and last week. It said the new Medicare prescription drug benefit is saving local seniors money.

Almost the same article was in a packet of materials produced by the House Republican Conference. The office of Rep. Deborah Pryce, a Columbus-area lawmaker who leads the House GOP group, inserted data for her central Ohio district and put it on her congressional Web site on July 10.

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060926/NEWS01/609260344

Plagarism is BAD. Schmidt has no business being in public affairs. Her career is over.

Padgett is a Ney wanna-be (which is even more scary than being a Ney). The Ohio GOP has to admit it is corrupt and reorganize with totally different people. Thats the only way they can possibly save face.

The no-spin state of the economy:

The British economy has slipped down the world league in terms of competitiveness but remains in the top 10 for the second year running, an authoritative annual survey from the World Economic Forum showed yesterday.
Britain is in 10th place - down from ninth last year - while the United States has fallen from first to sixth.

Commenting on the US slide down the rankings, Mr Lopez-Claros cited concerns over economic management and the business environment.

The business survey pointed to concern about "wastefulness" in public spending - a particular reference to the big rise in defence and homeland security spending.

"With a low savings rate, record-high current-account deficits and a worsening of the US's net debtor position, there is a non-negligible risk to both the country's overall competitiveness and, given the relative size of the US economy, the future of the global economy," the report said.

The top four economies in terms of competitiveness are now Switzerland, Finland, Sweden and Denmark. Mr Lopez-Claros noted that these countries did not conform to a low-tax, low-spending model. Singapore remained in fifth place.

'The Iraq war has not made the world safer from terror, Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf told CNN, saying he stands by statements he makes in his new book. Musharraf -- often portrayed as being in agreement with President Bush on the war on terror -- writes he never supported the U.S. invasion of Iraq. "It [the war] has made the world a more dangerous place," he said.'

Remember this guy is our 'ally'.

'Bush suggested parts of the report were originally leaked for political purposes, and that media accounts were meant to confuse Americans'

'Meant to confuse Americans'? Either Mr. Bush has a tinfoil conspiracy theory going there -- a Nixonian 'they're all out to get me' -- or he thinks we're all as blitheringly stupid as his base.

I can read, and comprehend, the NIE report, therefore I am not at all confused. The conclusions are quite clear to anyone with a brain -- the war in Iraq is making the entire world more volatile and dangerous. It's really quite simple.