Hi all!
I'm new! Love the site, thanks!

Pets
Bye

Hello
Thanks for letting me check out the forum. I am impressed with all the posts!

[url=http://www.blogada.com/linktator/linktator.php?num=50&sep=7]fun for all[/url]

Rumsfeld needed to go right after the 04 elections. His philosophy of downsizing the armed forces has put us in a bind in fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, plus trying to patrol other key nations in the world. We need to upsize, not downsize the military. In 04, we needed someone else and had to wait til 06 to get it. Nonetheless, this is a positive step for the future of our nation's defense. First Paul Brenner, now Rumsfeld. Were on the right track.

JEP: I thought going to Iraq was a bad idea from the start...but that does not change the fact that we are there and we need to succeed. Do you ever discuss with respect or are you always an arrogant a..? Oh, by the way...I've already said I did not vote for the GOP candidate this year...Bush's own arrogance had to be stopped.

vmi98mom: As a former soldier myself, I wish your children Godspeed, and a safe return. I think events in Somalia after we left or an indicator of what will happen when we leave. There is no running from the heart of the problem...they will follow us home IMO. These people want to change the world and will not stop, ever, until they succeed, or get killed. Better to fight them now and there than later and here.

"The Day After: Rumsfeld Is Out" and the stock market is up. If Cheney resigns will the Dow Jones hit 13,000? Bhoomes wants to know.

Will any of the rightwing loudmouths on Fox News Channel start drifting over to the center? Seems to me all those FNC squirts' rise to prominence coincided with the increasing rise to power of the current Republican stranglehold on gov't.

After all, power and money rules. And what group is about to take over House, Senate, and governorships?

"You don't have any problem going after the terrorists, as long as it is neat and easy...is what it sounds like you are saying."

When was the last time anyone said anything about Bin Laden being sighted in Baghdad?

We're looking for a fox in the hyena's den.

FH, if you are so intent on war, at least do it right.

But don't brag about failures, and don't deny mistakes, our strategic logic for boots on the ground in Iraq was flawed long ago. And because our cash resources were dedicated to no-bid contracts than attention to military issues by the outgoing SOD, was "take what you can get)

It's way past fixing, Mr expert. Just wjhat war are you still talking about, it isn't Bush's war.

And most military experts know that.

But you spout the same stupid ignorance Bush and Rumsfeld fed you a couple weeks ago, when the Dems were still "losers" in your brainwashed little mind.

And now that Rummy's been toasted, and Bush is getting roasted, you repeat the same tripe they stopped using long ago.

Are you sleeping? Is this all just a bad neocon nightmare, and you'll all wake up with Rick Santorum and Mike Dewine laying little faith-based sugarplums upon your Christmas fireplace? And Iraq will be a "winnable war" with Mission Accomplished underway, ad infinitum.

Reality is apparently just another option to some of these folks.

I noticed the last few weeks, as it became apparent that Dems might win back the house, that all the Repub appeasers on the radio were very concerned about wasting time on impeachments. If they have nothing to hide what are they so worried about? They tell us we have nothing to worry about if we have done nothing wrong. And then one could wonder, if there are crimes committed wouldnt the good , moral REpubs want the perpitraitors brought to justice? It would seem that "real" "moral" republicans would want the truth to be known. If not, what does that tell you? Maybe it never really had anything to do with right or wrong to begin with. Also , tonight on the radio I heard a "talk show" host say that Rumsfeld was a great guy, and its the fault of the Dems and Yesterdays election that he was fired. But just minutes before that I heard a speach by the President where he said Rumsfelds "resignation" had nothing to do with the election, and had been decided earlier. So wheres the truth here? Also just a few days ago The president said he was committed to Rumsfeld staying for the remainder of his term of office. Sounds like a way biiger flip flop than John Kerry ever made. Funny no one notices that. Flip Flop, Flip Flop.

FH -- If we leave Iraq, it does not become a "haven for terrorists," because it never has been one. Have terrorist organizations used our stupidity against us to recruit? Absolutely. When there is a void of power in a country where religious peoples hold strongly to their beliefs, the leaders of the religious sects will vie for power, which is exacty what has happened. Terrorist tactics have been used for millenia to win territory and control peoples. Our being in Iraq provides organizations that employ these tactics to gain power through a unifying message. The larger issue is whether Iran will leverage our exit to expand its power base in the Middle East. By listening to the voices of PNAC after 9/11, probably because of his own urge for revenge on Hussein, Bush created a crisis and now there are no good solutions. As we learned in Viet Nam (at least some us anyway), we cannot control the peoples or governments of other nations. Ultimately they have to make their own way. Iraq and the "war on terror" are connected only by our choice to invade. Our withdrawl from Iraq by turning it over to its own government, is the only solution. Will there be other problems caused by this? Absolutely. But you do not end terror through continued violence. Those of us with children fighting this war, especially those that had spouses in Viet Nam, want them out of there as soon as possible.

Speaking of Gay Republican hypocrites ... Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the Governor-elect of Florida!

sorry, but the decision of AP to 'call the race' did not change a thing. I think it is about time the press stops inserting itself so strongly in the electoral nights-- it is infinitely annoying to have to hear every two years 'I can announce that CNN is calling the Indiana race for Luger' this is just self important bunk, and it should stop.

I think we'll be seeing a lot of interesting things - but if the deadenders in the GOPs think they can slip something thru before the new Congress, they have to expect a few massive retaliations if so.

The time of neocons is over. The time of lame ducks is now.

Finally, George W. Bush has done something to increase U.S. National Security: he has fired Rumsfeld -- even if it is called a resignation.

Drindl: So if we leave Iraq and it becomes a havan for terrorists...who cares? When leading members of the terrorists say Iraq is the central front in the war...you think they are just kidding? It does not matter what Iraq was, it is what it has become that is of concern. You don't have any problem going after the terrorists, as long as it is neat and easy...is what it sounds like you are saying.

'JEP: Do you believe we are at war, or do you think if we play nice the bad men will just go home and leave us alone?'

The 'bad men' -- what are you, 5 years old? Please. Don't insult our intelligence. Foreign policy is a bit more complicated than that. Are we at war, you say?

Well, what we are doing is mostly occupying a country that had nothing to do with 9/11... a country that did not, and was apparently incaple of, endangering us.

If we were actually going after bin Ladin, then perhaps I might say we are 'at war'. However, at this point, I think we are mainly at war profiteering, frankly.

I have no problem going after terrorists, we must. But that has nothing to do with Iraq.

I want to thank Howard Dean for bringing some sanity to the Democratic Party by insisting that they ask for the votes from ALL Americans. No matter what your political stripe we're all in this together. The sooner we acknowledge this the better off we'll all be. The fact is that our system of values was under attack. We have the right as a free people living in a democracy to pursue a change in government if the party or people in power no longer represent the majority of Americans. I think this is what we saw yesterday.
Our representatives should now ask the hard questions regarding the future direction of our nation.
No more secret government.
No more failure to be accountable to the people.
No more attacking the Constitution.
We are a country of laws and the laws should be just.
The President should represent us all.
The Congress is the voice of the people.
I'm glad the people have spoken.

TG,

Why would we want to impeach Bush? I haven't researched this in a while, but wouldn't that leave Cheney as the new POTUS?

Talk about out of the frying pan and into the fire...

No, the White House can stay in Bush's hands for his lame duck years until we can vote in a Democrat in '08.

JEP: Do you believe we are at war, or do you think if we play nice the bad men will just go home and leave us alone?

Thank God! The first of the rats is deserting the sinking ship. I pray that all the rest of the rats will find their way to the Hague, and hopefully be hung there. Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice, Wolfowitz, Perle, Feith and so many others. Now, it is time for all White House staffers, all previous White House staffers and enablers of these evil men to find lawyers and have their lives ruined as they have tried to ruin the USA. Thank God that the Diebold machines could not overcome the will of the people this time.

I have enjoyed this election blog and many of the comments posted.

In a conspiracy mode, is it possible the the President had no objection to the Dems taking the house?
This way he can appease his business base on things like guest worker visas, port (security) and ok I can't think of any more.

Also this would marginalise the VP. And get the religious right off his back.

The reason I say this is because the president talked about things like Iraq when nobody wanted to be reminded about the casualties there etc. It may be possible to take a hindsight overview of his campaign schedule and see if he acted as a lightning rod for both sides. But more so the Dems.

Or this could be complete nonsense?

JEP: you talk as if Dems aren't moderates, and moderates somehow "helped" dems coming in from the outside.

I am a moderate conservative who sometimes votes dem when the GOP loses its focus, as I believe they have. And yes, I absolutely believe that myself and others like me swayed the vote in this election.

See my call for Rummys Resignation on October 11 2004 of all places in a Texas newspaper. I am lucky not to be lynched then

http://www.theeagle.com/opinions/letterstoeditor/oct2004/101104letterstoeditor.php

"I will not try to convince you of my position. But mark my words, the country is crying for coalition,"

Crying out loud, for six long years. and because no one hear us, a lot of young Americans have died.

There's enough manpower and committee power now to go around in this House AND Senate, to handle both the oversight and the ministrations of our daily governance, so serious investigations surely wouldn't defer from the task at hand.

We MUST uncover the subterfuge, whether we punish anyone or not.

Just a question, to all these new "brethren" of consolation among us, do you all actually believe crimes against the public should be ignored, in order to govern without distractions?

Yes or no will do, anything else is spin.

And we "mark" everyone's words, you don't need that old cliche here.

Also, don't be subtle, blog straight, we all try to be up-front here.

...HA!

Moderates voted in droves for dems.

you talk as if Dems aren't moderates, and moderates somehow "helped" dems coming in from the outside.

Can you imagine "moderate dems" as one concept, or are you one fo the real righties who considers dems all left of Marx? Gee thanks for saving us from the third level of Bennett's Hell.

Your framing betrays a perspective much further away from the moderate fulcrum you claim.

And get a load of Cilliza, he's on another postless thread, touting Steele for head of the RNC.

Not a bad idea, actually, but he said in his intro that Steele "CAME UP JUST SHORT YESTERDAY" and since it was 11 points, I just thought that"just short" comment was a bit "disingenerous."

Still chuckling...

Another new word, you know what it means...

Now I get it, it isn't someone on the staff, its Steel himself...

From http://www.upi.com/SecurityTerrorism/view.php?StoryID=20061108-042912-9064r

"Rumsfeld blames partisanship for his fall
WASHINGTON, Nov. 8 (UPI) -- Resigning U.S. Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said Wednesday the prospect of congressional criticism was a major reason for his departure....."It will be a different Congress, a different environment, moving toward a presidential election and a lot of partisanship, and it struck me that this would be a good thing for everybody," Rumsfeld told reporters outside the Pentagon after a brief and emotional statement at the White House."

I think Rummy is confused and means to blame BIPARTISANSHIP for his fall. This last Congress had clearly reached the theoretical limit of partisanship since the D's were given 0 (zero/nada/zilch/zip) power. Therefore, partisanship has nowhere to go but down and bipartisanship nowhere to go but up.

JEP

Nobody is saying there shouldn't be responsible oversight. There of course should be. This election was a repudiation of the Iraq policy for certain and a repudiation of what was perceived as an arrogant and immutable exercise of power by the republican leadership - an unwillingness to compromise or recognize weakness or ineffectiveness. It was not a pro-democratic revolution as much as an anti-republican leadership vote. The groundswell was for change and a new direction, not a picking at the proverbial political scabs of the past. Since we no doubt have a fundamental difference of view as to "culpability", I will not try to convince you of my position. But mark my words, the country is crying for coalition, consensus and solutions and if the dems provide it, they have the opportunity to be the permanent majority that rove used to dream about and to do real damage to republican prospects moving forward. But instead, if it turns into a political witch hunt that seeks for a return on the blood spilled as you say ... that sounds a lot like retribution to me. Not only that, it completely ignores the fact that an overwhelming majority of our leaders on both sides voted for this war and wittingly or unwittingly are accomplices to the crimes that you see.

"And now you are lecturing US that we better be 'moderate'. Meaning, do it your way."

Moderates voted in droves for dems. this cycle and yet we want things to be done the same way as before...hmmm...interesting logic. Stop putting everyone in a partisan box.

New Directions? Sure, if we can have some new thoughts to go with them. How about this? The USA is set up with television dramas that last 30 minutes or an hour and fix every problem. Perhaps life is not so tidy. Just imagine that the President did exactly the right think in Iraq and that other methods would have given us more dead and less progress. We moan about loosing 30 or 60 in a month, but forget that training exercises have had losses of 5 to ten in a week of live fire training. The major battles of the past were thousands per day. Tyhe army in Iraq pretty much fell apart.

Now if that idea is essentially right, that they did the right war with the right trroops but that it just happened to be an expensive and difficult thing to do under all circumstances, then any change we make without good thought will be a mistake.

I don't want people five years from now saying "If only we had held to our course..."

Lets make the right changes.

The problem is that everyone is for "changes" buty nobody has agreed on what they will be. It could go from changing uniforms to leaving. This is a time when "do the right thing" has real meaning. The time for partisan attacks is past (for a few days anyway.)

But Mr. Gates is an unusual person. He started out at CIA at the bottom and worked his way up. If anyone knows how to get Defense to cooperate in the right way with CIA, he is the man.

I still think NKorea's nukelet was Rove's failed attempt at an October surprise...

And please don't chide me for conspiracy theorism, you'd have to be naive not to notice the blatant coincidence.

And just like that half-cocked bomblet, Karl's 2006 strategy was a dud...

After the mini-nuke fizzled, it didn't turn the polls around precipitously, as they planned.

Then they knew all they had left was their base, and since the old mushroom cloud wasn't working for them, they conjured-up their "Speaker Pelosi" frankenstein monster.

But all those big tough R's in racecars weren't afraid of such a dignified little lady, so they twisted Kerry's carelessly ambiguous wordsto create another strawman, and missed on that one too.

They just couldn't find enough of a boogey man to turn the blue tide back.

Except in Tennessee, where they used their old favorite.

And so it goes...

Change happens...

But this time with a righteous twist that pinpricked every hypocritical R's political balloon.

Aand the ones that didn't burst lost a whole lot of air.

2008 looks quite promising.

oops from earlier post, meant jim tester... interesting guy, I don't care how 'conservative' he is... seems like a real straight shooter.

oh btw, jep your poem was nice and you are right about melanie. she's great.

'You're not interested in America, you're interested in Your America. '

and you're not. Already, before the Dems have had a chance to do anything whaatsoever, you're already hectoring and threatening and bullying we better do it your way -- or else. Republicans swept into office in 1994 shouting from the rooftops that they were going to marginalize Dems, punish them, become a permanent majority. And now you are lecturing US that we better be 'moderate'. Meaning, do it your way.

Personally I would love to see Congress stop this bickering and get something productive done for a change. But that isn't going to happen unless the R's stop attacking us and try working with us. Maybe if they stopped calling us appeasers and al-queda lovers and started actually listening to what we want, that might happen.

I think a lot of credit goes to Melanie Sloan of C.R.E.W.

She's got to be the most influential and powerful "outside" factor in the story.

She's been the left hand of God in this election, I wonder if she plays chess?

The power of truth, via the blogs.

I've always wondered, if the pen is mightier than the sword, then what's a keyboard worth?

Especially with the blogs available.

There have been a number of neo-influences this time around, unique to this election. Maybe we need a thread to that effect.

Drindl: "Your side"...that comment tells me who you are. You're not interested in America, you're interested in Your America. I'm not a slave to a party like you are.

DP - I'd vote for Cut and Runsfeld. What could more aptly describe what happened today?

Good post.

'What is a moderate agenda? How about working together to find answers with which we can all live.'

Oh please. That's what Dems have been trying to do for years now. But that's not what you really want. What you want is for us to cave to republicans on every issue. Remember that Grover Norquist says that bpartisanship is date rape. They are not interested in working with us, only dominating us. Ain't going to happen unless something changes on YOUR side.

You still haven't said what you think liberals want. What is you think we are gong to do?

Was this supposed to be the October Surprise, until the President reverted to Baseball Owner and gave his manager the Vote of Confidence?

Who does the President use now as the lightning rod for the criticism?

TG
"the folks that want to see the government move forward and work and to have the era of mean spiritedness conclude."

Don't def;ect the purpose, we must uncover the subterfuge, one way or another. Sounds like the beginning of the delusion of gravitas to me, who are you to scold us about demandinhg accountability? And since whwn is public vigilance and retrofitting to repair gross errors not "moving forward?"

Personally, TG I don't have a vengeful bone in my body. I don't care if any of "them" ever gets punished.

Some of them got punished to a degree by the electorate, if it is comensurate with their crime, justice has been served.

But to unwind their tangled messes under public scrutiny, to de-construct their ill-conceived construct, is absolutely essential to restore our constitutional safeguards.

I have suggested for a long time that immunity from imprisonment should be granted to EVERYONE at EVERY level in exchange for complete candor.

However, if there is no threat of incarcaration, it is unlikely they will "tell on each other."

So, TG, you would rather leave the sweepings under the rug, than to find out how they got there and try to enact preventions?

How many billions in "forgivness" did you have in mind for Halliburton?

In terms of spilled-blood, what do you figure, a million bucks a pint?

Chickenfeed to Bechtel.

A day's worth of petty cash to KBR.

Does Justice matter?

Or is that just an historic nuisance, leave it to posterity and drop the subject, and lets get on with our broken government.

That just breaks it worse.

"This will be a short-lived majority if the dems try and punish the GOP the next two years instead of seeking common ground on big problems."

The R's did this for 6 years and avoided all (1) "common ground" with the D's and (2) "big problems." See http://www.rollingstone.com/news/coverstory/worst_congress_ever

With Bush's War continuing to go badly (where else would it go?) all the D's need to do is push for common sense solutions (never mind common ground) and they'll look like legislative heroes.

I was watching the va senate vote count via the official va government website (that I accessed through drudge). About an hour ago it said that over 99 % of the precincts had reported. Now it says only 94.57% have reported, with the vote count of both candidates remaining the same. did late results just get added in? See the website below:

http://sbe.virginiainteractive.org/index.htm

The "sensible center", as Colin Powell calls it, won this election for you Drindl. The only thing the blogospere did in this election is get Lamont the nomination in Conn. We all know how that ended, don't we. What is a moderate agenda? How about working together to find answers with which we can all live. Bush lost his way in this regard and it finally caught up with him. This will be a short-lived majority if the dems try and punish the GOP the next two years instead of seeking common ground on big problems. Not the least of which is Iraq.

Lieberman will vote his (old) party line, and never mind that the Dems dissed him during the primary: you think he wants Cheney to cast the decisive vote instead of him? With Tester now, that makes 51. Essentially, the Dems and their independent ally already have control, with or without Virginia.

"Two years of buck wild investigations and impeachment talks will end you right back in the minority."

Would you care to put that on a ballot initiative?

Thought not.

An Ode to Pombo's departure;

sung to the tune of Pachabel's Canon in D

I am the mighty redwood,
two thousand years I've grown,

In this secret ancient grove,
where mankind has never gone.

I was born the day that Jesus Christ was put to death,

My first sprouts reached upwards as He took His resurrected breath.

And as He rose to heaven, I was reaching for the skies.

I've been growing ever since, watching as the world roles by.

I am the biggest redwood, over four hundred feet tall.

I've been growing ever since the Roman Empire's rise and fall.

I've seen the nations come and go, their flags in turn unfurled,

And now the land where I was born dominates this whole embattled world.

I saw the western world unfold, from the first Spanish ships,

I stood and watched as Lewis and Clark, took their fateful river trip.

I saw this nation tear itself apart in Civil War.

Of all the horrors that I've seen, surely that was the worst by far.

I've seen the work that men can do, both noble and profane.

Most of them are innocent, just living out their lives in vain.

But in the last few decades, the worst men have begun,

To rule their fellows crudely, with land mines, rockets bombs and guns.

I've grown here now for centuries, adding rings each year,

Hidden in this secret place, as nations rose and disappeared.

Now greedy men with bottom lines don't care what age I've spanned.

They'll cut me down and ship me off to sell as lumber in some distant land.

I can hear them coming, little men with mighty saws,

And thier black-smoked-belching half-tracks, armed with racks and plows and iron jaws.

I am the mighty redwood, two thousand years I've grown,

In this secret, ancient grove, where mankind has never gone...

Very nice DP, I like Cut n' Runny because it brings to mind stained trousers caused by learning the "Nazi Appeasers" are bearing down on the Potomac.

Mr. Cilliza, I would not use the passive voice to describe Rumsfilled's role of a lighting rod. I think the guy wanted to be a lightning rod, made himself into a lighting rod. How else can one explain such callous statements as: You go to war with the army you got?
He is abrasive, crass, uncaring and clueless. Oh and arrogant. If he wasn't trying to be all of these things, if he thought he was being nice or something, then he was too insane to hold high office.

Final comment: Why Gates? We really need a person with combat experience right now. Or is he being chosen because Bush thinks being involved in the Iran/Contra scandal means Gates understands the Middle East?

A lot of gloating going on here today huh? Well enjoy ... but remember, now you have to fashion an agenda that focuses on something other than hating the republican leadership. Two years of buck wild investigations and impeachment talks will end you right back in the minority. I am being serious. Hillary talked about the vital dynamic center last night and Pelosi talked about an era of bi-partisanship in order to fashion real solutions to some of the countries problems. Rahm Emmanel did the same. This is where the real opportunites for the dems to enhance their political cache for '08 and beyond lie at this moment, not in the throaty gloating of the previously disaffected. The previous poster was absolutely correct, it is the independents and moderates that swung this one and those are the folks that want to see the government move forward and work and to have the era of mean spiritedness conclude. I know I do.

oooh, I just found out Pombo in California lost. christ what a relief. That guy wouldn't have stopped until he'd cut down every last redwood and killed every lving thing within a mile of it... have never know anyone who hated nature as much as that guy...

Once again, FH, what do 'moderates' want? What constitutes a 'moderate' agenda?

Congratulations dems. Now let's see what you've got. Remember...the moderates giveth, and they can certainly taketh away in 08 if they don't like what they see!

Ack--please do not say the words 'president cheney' anymore. Halloween is over, please don't scare me. He does enough damage where he is.

Bush "admitted he was "disappointed with the outcome of the election," and added: "As head of the Republican party I share a large part of the responsibility."

More than Rummy, presumably? And so who, may I ask, should be resigning?

At least President Cheney wouldn't have to pick up the phone to find out what his opinions are.

bobby- what the tone of rightwing blogs is like today:

'Olberman and Bin Laden Are Celebrating'

laughable. no wonder they lost.

Truth Hunter -
thanx fer the update on zouky. miracles never cease, pigs fly and zouky eats crow with his very own BBQ sauce no less! I'm wondering if somebody is going to pinch me and rouse me from this wet dream. anywho - no one gave zouky as much sh!t as I did but...well, at least he showed up long enough to take the inevitable potshots from the likes of queenofzouk et al.

this whole thing, for some reason, reminds me of a scene in the movie "Patton" where he has just routed Rommel in a desert tank duel: "Rommel" he says, "you magnificent bastard, I read your book." So too, apparently, did the Democratic party read Turd Blossom's book. whatever the case, I is a lovin' my wet dream!

now, what with it bein' a beautiful day and all, and me bein' a good god-fearin', gun totin' dem, I is goina go get me bird dog and go pheasant huntin' with my son Luke. Watch out Dick, I gots a gun too you sack of sh!t!!! and, unlike you, i am an expert marksman...albeit with rifle. (seriously, still have the medal from me USAF days - surprise)

:~)

I liked this from Dean {who is the hero of all this, not that tool emmanuel]

'Question: What role did the liberal blogosphere play?

Howard Dean:

That's a growing influence on politics in general. There is also a conservative blogosphere, not only the liberal blogosphere, of course.

The netroots community can be very proud. They're playing a bigger role.

Without the blogs, Jerry McInerny and Carole Shay (NH-1), would not have won. Entirely grassroots effort, without support form the Party, including us.

A big deal.

Here's an even bigger deal. As you know, robocalls, flyers, low-ball election techniques. We knew about that instantly because of the blogs. We are not sure (Repubs) did it more than in the past, but we knew about it faster. Updates every 10 minutes from people who called 1-888-DEM-VOTE. (or whatever). We were able to get lawyers to polling places immediately.

The instantaneousness of the blogs, of people who read the blogs, who get that information to us, is a huge improvement over 2004.'

Everybody out on the blogs worked hard, there was so much grassroots participation and cooperation, it was awesome.

Isn't John Tester a big ole cutie? An organic lentil farmer. God bless America and i mean that sincerely.

JEP:

re: your 'polster' post:

At our little election gathering last night, one of the guys commented on how convenient it would be for Whitehouse to make a run for the 'White House'! He wished he had been born with the last name 'Senate!

'Within a year Republican Talk Radio will have to turn from hate and fear to substance and American will be the better '..oh bobby, you are way too optimistic. These are people who can't stand to lose, cna't stand to be proven wrong--they are only going to be more bitter, more hateful, more determined to crush us. Already Grover Norquist [who isn't even in congress but as one of the kings of k street has huge power over it] is vowing to fight everything nancy pelosi does. He hates the very idea of bipartisanship.

Oh my lord, rummy has resigned! He's absolutely terrified of accountability for all the horror he has created. Darth Cheney must be hiding in his spiderhole, quaking.

And busboy, i mean bushboy, must he heavily medicated.

L. Sterling, why can you not post anymore?

Well thanks zouk, that was nice. not that i understand what thehell you're talking about with income or whatever. I actually hope bhoomes comes back too. As he once said about me, I think he has a good heart, at bottom.

Today I feel very peaceful and releived. Up alll night the Dem party in New York, was amazing walking through one monitor after another registering wins for Dems, like winning the slots over and over. After all the work and calls, John Hall won, along with other candidates I had worked for. Sometimes I was really scared when I talked to people on the phone and they didn't know what the issues were, or care or said they never voted. But turnout was huge and democracy still works, and I thank God for that.

I was talking to a lot of people last night about the' conservative 'dems who won, and I welcome them. But I don't even know what the words liberal or conservative, moderate or centrist mean anymore. Hardly anything it seems. I think a lot of people really want the same things.

What do people think Nancy Pelosi will do? What is the 'liberal agenda'? I'm called a 'liberal' by some, but all I want from government is competence and accountability. Come and rescue me from my roof if my house is underwater and don't give all my money to Halliburton and Exxon. It's not much to ask, really....

Truth hunter, what do you really think Ortega is going to do in Nicaragua and how does it threaten us? We murdered over 35,000 peasants there in the seventies -- and for what? Because they were socialists?

But you see, that's what the corporatists fear more than anything. That citiizens in a resource rich country will want tor own them, instead of letting outsiders exploit them. But why should we care?

Star;

You got it!

Man! When Bush says you're doing a great job, it's the freakin' kiss of death!

"U.S. District Court Judge Dan A. Polster in Ohio ordered polls stay open for an extra 90 minutes, after the Ohio Democratic Party sued Cuyahoga County because of crowded precincts."

A judge named Polster orders some Ohio polls to stay open?

Now that's cosmic!

Queen, Zouky posted on the previous article...

No wonder Cheney went hunting, wanted to hunker down in the boonies rather than be a stand-up guy. Wonder if he will have "health" problems now and resign in the coming months.

What about Rice? We just lost another backyard country, Ortega won in Nicaragua.

So Jr.'s Daddy does know best.... Baker, Gates. Too bad it took 6 years.

http://whathappenedtomycountry.blogspot.com

WA-8 has not been called that I can tell. Only 31% of precincts reporting.

The thing about Rumsfeld stepping down or whatever is that it is the ONLY story MSNBC has been running since it was announced - it pretty much takes the thunder away from the Dems on their big day - THAT is the purpose of it happening today. . .

A couple of races that have missed any comment: Democrat Charles Brown lost to incumbent John Doolittle, but in a close race. Likewise, Democrat Darcy Burner lost by a small margin to incumbent Dave Reichert. I point this out because they are two races where a little bit of assistance from the Dem Party would have made a big difference. These two ran in SOLIDLY Republican areas, so the Dems just threw them to the wolves. This is the sort of mistake that Howard Dean has been working to prevent.

A couple of races that have missed any comment: Democrat Charles Brown lost to incumbent John Doolittle, but in a close race. Likewise, Democrat Darcy Burner lost by a small margin to incumbent Dave Reichert. I point this out because they are two races where a little bit of assistance from the Dem Party would have made a big difference. These two ran in SOLIDLY Republican areas, so the Dems just threw them to the wolves. This is the sort of mistake that Howard Dean has been working to prevent.

Hastert already said that he's out of the leadership race. Virginia is pretty well wrapped up now and Allen is showing signs that he's ready to concede without a recount.

We are suddenly living in a whole new world.

If they don't stop calling us the "Democrat Party" I am gonna snap.

Could be a genius move. Gates is another Myers - nominate the unconfirmable and then withdraw (what CIA guy under Bush 41 is not tainted by Iran-Contra?). Then nominate Lieberman who is replaced by a Republican (CT's governor is R) and the Senate goes back to the GOP.

Complex, but just crazy enough to work.

Zippy;

But wouldn't a Cheeney impeachment be a great venu for almost all those issues, including the trashing of our constitutional rights? Who do you suppose might be related to a Cheeney impeachment who might be

Just for a moment imagine the key figures in just about every one of those hearings you mention, and think if they could not somehow be sworn in for a Cheney impeachment?

It would be the most cost-effective act of Congress in the last two centuries.

Does anyone doubt that a clearly-exposed Cheeney chain would reach to the very bottom of the pit?

Question: Will the MSM give Bush a free ride on his "flip-flop" on Rummy? Only days ago he announced that Rumsfeld would be Sec of Defense until 2008 . . . less than 24 hours after the election he accepts his resignation?! Is this a political ploy on Bush's part, or an actual realization (finally!) that things are not as rosy in Iraq as the GOP would like to believe?

Now where did that zouky go to? here zouky, zouky, zouky...I have some tasty morsels for you to chew on. In fact, I have lots of zouky-puke morsels fer ya to eat; such as:
zouky said: 1) "you poor Dems aren't even going to know what hit you."; 2) "when they only pick up 12 house seats the press, pundits, polsters and moonbats will go absolutely crazy with indignation at thier deserved reward slighted. Again. No mention of the moronic policies and positions that got them here. Dance with the one that brung ya."; 3) "I saw a very interesting probabilistic treatment of the predictions which ended with a range of 15-18 seats gained for Dems with no variance taken into account. Once the real October surprise hits, the line will shift back down to 11-13 seats with a 1 or 2 seat variance. don't count your chickens just yet.": 4) "My prediction: Senate Rs lose OH, PA and RI. And yes NJ and MD go D and VA, TN and MO go R (even after the Dems keep polls open late to try to steal another). I am sticking my neck out but MT goes R too. House Rs lose 13 seats total with a few surprises. almost all toss-ups and leans will stay with the incumbant, regardless of party. I haven't seen many polls with a 5%+ margin which I would require to kill off an R incumbant, based on historical poll results and sampling bias. I will have my crow with BBQ sauce please but I wouldn't shop ahead.

Dang that zouky is a funny mo fo. There are many more...maybe they will make an appearance a little bit latter. ;)

:~)

One thing I am sick and tired of is Chris' censoring posts on this site that he disagrees with. Shape up guy!

Jeff,

My understanding is that Lieberman has already been promised the committee chairs that he would have been in line for if he had won the primary. I really do not see him going to the Republicans, especially in view of the decisive defeat they suffered at the polls yesterday.

What an outrage! W claims he didn't announce because he would have been accused of wag the dog. I don't care what he would have been accused of. It was the right decision, should have been made long ago, and would have saved the election!

What an outrage! W claims he didn't announce because he would have been accused of wag the dog. I don't care what he would have been accused of. It was the right decision, should have been made long ago, and would have saved the election!

Gee, the way he acted I thought Rummy was a god. You mean he's a mere mortal like the rest of us? He doesn't talk to people like they're his equal. He talks to people much like Cheney does, i.e. like he's talking to his subjects. All I can say is sweet!!!!!!!!! I love seeing these arrogant scumbags eat crow.

With Montana decided for the Dems and Virginia looking good for them as well pending a recount, I just have one question: Will Liberman remember that the DNC gave him no support in his campaign for re-election and threaten to caucus with the Republicans? Will he blackmail the Democratic Party for a cherry committe chairmanship? And if so, will he end up holding the Senate hostage, constantly using the possiblity of defection to the other side of the aisle to gain more and more power for himself?

Anybody else think this may be a possiblity?

Democrats get excited about all the wrong things.

Remember "Fitzmas"? He got Libby removed, which as we all know crippled the executive branch's agenda and ability to exercise power.

And now, Rumsfeld's removal. Don't get me wrong, I am as disapproving of Rummy as the next guy, but the real problems the Democrats should be focusing on are not in the pentagon. Bush threw the victors a bone, in hopes that you'll go away and gnaw on that for a while instead of focusing on what really is important: the fact that this administration uses the constitution as a doormat.

If they got rid of Rumsfeld yesterday, I might not have voted for a Democrat for the first time (Webb). I can only hope the Republican Party as a whole turns back to the middle before 2008. Hopefully, only one whipping is all we need to learn a lesson.

Yes but Bush is still in denial about Iraq. He still thinks that our troops can improve the situation. That's not the case.

The military has done its bit. As long as the Shiites remain intend on using "democracy" to dominate the Sunnis there will be no progress.

Christmas sure came early this year, didn't it?

What about republicans calling for Rummy to go?

Rep. Jo Ann Davis (R-VA)
Rep. Chris Shays (R-CT)
Rep. Walter Jones (R-NC)
Sen. Trent Lott (R-MS)
Tom Kean Jr. (R) candidate for NJ US Senate

Or lost confidence
Sen John McCain (R-AZ)

Or rebuked him-
Sen Chuck Hagel (R-NE)
Sen. Susan Collins (R-ME)

Not to mention the armed forces newspapers and retired generals from here to Baghdad.

Well said, DP -- I like "Cut and Runsfeld". Nicely done. :-)

My worry is that this is an effort to make Rumsfeld the primary (or only) scapegoat, and Himself The President will carry on as he's been all along.

JEP

No. We do not want to impeach Cheney. That would mean we couldn't have alot of really fun Congressional hearings to lead into the 2008 presidntial

Did anyone notice Juniors tie- It was purple. A color formed when Blue and Red are mixed.

Symbolic. Sort of Touching after the RNC's black and blue approach of the past six months.

All along we thought Rumsfeld was using "cut and run" to describe the Democrats strategy in Iraq when he was actually giving us a clue into his own Iraq exit strategy.

Which do you like better: "Cut and Runsfeld" or "Cut and Rummy"? I prefer the former.

Bye Don. No one will miss you.

posted on the other thread:

According to MSNBC, Bush has nominated Fmr. CIA Director Bob Gates to be Secretary of Defense. Apparently Cheney resisted Bush on Rumsfeld resignation, twice, then conceded, but wanted to bring a more right-wing ideologue - Bush said no, twice - so is this the beginning of the end of Cheney?

It couldn't have been more decisive, if there had been a nationwide referendum asking for Rummy's removal it might have been the most lopsided election in history.

Wondering if a secretive pardon guarantee will accompany the retirement?

Who's next, I suggested Mehlman will tumble soon, anyone else want to make a guess?

Please, W, don't boost Cheeney, you can't fire him, because we want to impeach him.

The message of the election was that the citizenry wanted change.

This is just the first step.