We could honestly have a 3 way Presidential race this year. None of the Republican party candidates truly motivates all members of the party base, like Bush/Cheney has since 2000. The dems. aren't aligned behind a singule candidate, either. If any of the top 3 R's (Romney, McCain or Guiliani) or top 3 D's (Clinton, Obama or Edwards) get nominated there could be a strong 3rd party run. But, if Edwards or Obama won the Dem. ticket, a Hagel/Bloomberg ticket would find it tougher to gain traction. But, if Clinton is the nominee a Hagel/Bloomberg ticket would be very strong. If Obama or Edwards wins the D ticket, and any 3 of the R's win, a Brownback/Biden ticket would be really strong. They actually agree on a plan in Iraq. Biden has strong foreign policy credentials and Brownback is favored by the social conservatives. It would honestly be a 3 way race, either way. But my top tickets for Unity 08' are Bloomberg/Hagel or Hagel/Bloomberg and Brownback/Biden or Biden/Brownback. What do you think, folks?

Paul S, Lieberman is a Democrat like George Bush is a veteran.

The two names being thrown out there for this independant bid (possibly under the "Unity 08" title are Republicans.

Any chance Hagel might try and team with a moderate Democrat (such as Liberman?) to run a campaign?

Tell it like it is, John Las Vegas. To think that I entertained thoughts of supporting McCain in 2000. (I didn't.) You know how you can tell a lot about a person by determining who his / her friends are? By that standard, the GOP is not impressing ANYBODY.

Razorback
Boy you have nerve. You saying the left lies is like the pot calling the kettle black. I always wondered how some of the German people could support Hitler to the very end. Now I understand. You will support the neocons to the very end. I am proud to be a liberal. And after the last 6 years I am really really proud to be a liberal. After being a moderate for most of my life I am now a liberal. You people have told your lies over and over so many times that you now actually believe your own lies. The dumbing down of America is the greatest shame I have ever had. I am ashame to be American for the first time in my life. The rest of the world thinks we are a bunch of idiots just because we have a moron in the white house. I would rather be a left wing union member than a right wing nazie any day of the week. Evil can only exist when good people do nothing. We need to get the neocons out of power and probably spend the next 10 to 20 years digging our way out of this mess. Irag, the deficit, hell i could go on and on.

'razorback' and 'zouk' are two of the most non-productive idiots on the planet. They don't do anything except post on this blog all day long, every 5 minutes. Welfare queens -- the soul of the republican party. Leeches, parasites and trailer trash.

Hagel is an interesting person to watch. The man is as conservative as they come but is anti-war. The anti-war Republicans would flock to this guy like no body's business. Come 2008, there could be a lot of anti-war republicans. Also, his record in the senate gets him a lot of suopport from the Club for Growth types. He'd get his fair share of Republican voters too.

Bloomberg actually only brings a couple of things to the table. He's fairly moderate to progressive for a Republican, so he will appeal to Reagan Democrats, moderates and the swing vote. He's rich, so he can self fund, and he has the New York electoral votes behind him. I'm not sure he can swing NJ and Conn on his own over a Dem candidate.

A Hagel/Bloomberg indy ticket would be a disaster for the Republicans. They would have the money to get out the message and he could bring in Perot like numbers.

Oh, for crying out loud, will the Post get off this fantasy of running a Liberal Republican for president?

If slipping Rudy in on us isn't going to work, why do you think the dour, Bush-bashing Hagel will?

http://www.hagelbloomberg.com

Mark (in Austin),

A third party would not magically rescue people from idiocy.

Bloomberg appears to be really popular in New York, certainly more so than Giuliani. If Hillary is not the Dem nominee, its conceivable he could win New York, New Jersey & Conn. states - a good start on the way to the 270.

The Republican nominee would give a clue as to whether the ticket had any capability in the South, other than Nebraska's small number of college votes.

So, back to the topic...

Will a Bloomberg/Hagel candidacy have any chance of winning in todays toxic partisan climate (proof is in previous posts!)?

If not, which party does it favour more?

HogBoy - Thought that you were like one of your heroes, Reagan. Couldn't tell (as in distinguish) the Truth.

DCAustinite, you should stick to your pithy sound bites that can't be disproven.

"Biggest tax givaway and yet still net job loss, quality of jobs made are lower"

Another falsehood.

Disposable personal income, UP UP UP.

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/DSPI?&cid=110

Tax receipts, a new monthy record, despite the tax rate cuts, economic growth makes revenues increase:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/10/national/main2787123.shtml

Record levels of employment:

http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutputServlet

Series Id: LNU00000000Not Seasonally AdjustedSeries title: (Unadj) Population LevelLabor force status: Civilian noninstitutional populationType of data: Number in thousandsAge: 16 years and over

And housing bubble? How did Bush do that? Making available loans for lower income people? Record home ownership? What about the internet bubble, which created the Clinton economy? Letting prisoners free? That is good ole' 1960s liberalism.

You lie faster than I can tell the truth.

"example of Liberal mindset:

1.A bothced" (boTCHed)"and mismanaged war run by people that repeatedly ignored the advice of generals on the ground. (never met a soldier, don't care to)"

-whose war is this again? and who's running it, ignoring the advice of generals on the ground? Exactly.

"2. Biggest tax givaway and yet still net job loss, quality of jobs made are lower. (your money is ours unless we say otherwise)"

Who cut the taxes in the first place?

"3. housing bubble bursting. ( we can control prices)"

So what exactly is your point here? It is due to whose economic policies that we have to rely on real estate to drive the economy?

4. crime rising.(our judges let criminals go free)

When did crime begin to rise? It was after the '90's, right? Pretty good during the '90's, wasn't it? Who was president then?

"5. 47 million without healthcare ( we don't care how much things cost)"

Again, when exactly did this begin to happen? And which party has consistently stood in the way of reform?

"6. erosion of civil liberties ( no need for data when it sounds so good)"

Who thought up, passed, and expanded the Patriot Act? And from what party is the President who insists on being able to listen to your phone calls without oversight?

"7. maasive failures and job losses in American Big auto ( ignore union flaws)"

Gee, which party consistently refuses to mandate higher mileage standards, even though a majority of consumers would prefer cars which are cleaner and more efficient?

"8. corruption and sentencing of white house officials and congressmen. (ignore 40% of Dem congress to swallow this one)"

Hats off for your nerve in bringing this one up, but points off on your logic. It's going to be an interesting next 18 months.

You just want to call me names, you don't want to argue the points, but that makes sense, your party is devoid of substance, ideas and ideals. You got nothing, so you call me names.

Example of Liberal mindset:

1.(never met a soldier, don't care to) My Father is a lieutenant colonel, coward.
2.(your money is ours unless we say otherwise) The tax givaway was supposed to spur the economy, it didn't, coward.
3.(we can control prices) The feds set interest rates. That spurs or limits mortgages. I mean, you do understand the most basic of economics, right?
4.(our judges let criminals go free) Your judges. It's been 6 years of recess appointments of R's to the courts, coward.
5.(we don't care how much things cost) Yes, services cost money, but your city and statte taxes currently pay for the uninsured because public hospitals do not turn away the sick for lack of payment. But again, you fail to understnad the simplest of systems.
6.(no need for data when it sounds so good) You really don't believe that one do you? You just can't defend it.
7. (ignore union flaws) Ask the germans who just ate 23 billion dollars if what cost them in the end was the big bad unions, the entities that have been powerless for 25 years.
8. (ignore 40% of Dem congress to swallow this one) Um, you really think you can compare? for every Jefferson (LA) you trot out there's literally a handful on the repub side. You put a child molester in charge of prevention!

Example of Liberal mindset:

1.A bothced and mismanaged war run by people that repeatedly ignored the advice of generals on the ground. (never met a soldier, don't care to)
2. Biggest tax givaway and yet still net job loss, quality of jobs made are lower. (your money is ours unless we say otherwise)
3. housing bubble bursting. ( we can control prices)
4. crime rising.(our judges let criminals go free)
5. 47 million without healthcare ( we don't care how much things cost)
6. erosion of civil liberties ( no need for data when it sounds so good)
7. maasive failures and job losses in American Big auto ( ignore union flaws)
8. corruption and sentencing of white house officials and congressmen. (ignore 40% of Dem congress to swallow this one)

US President Tim Kalemkarian, US Senate Tim Kalemkarian, US House Tim Kalemkarian: best major candidate.

We unions are just like the Democrats. We will promise you free health care, lavish retirements, and guaranteed employment forever at inflated wages.

then when it all falls apart when the bills come due (medicare, social security, min wage) we will seek the rich to bail us all out. As long as the votes keep coming in, we have no reason to change. we care more about power than anything else as you can plainly see.

Plain and simple until recently this country was fully under control of the republicans and what did we get:

1. A bothced and mismanaged war run by people that repeatedly ignored the advice of generals on the ground.
2. Biggest tax givaway and yet still net job loss, quality of jobs made are lower.
3. housing bubble bursting.
4. crime rising.
5. 47 million without healthcare
6. erosion of civil liberties
7. maasive failures and job losses in American Big auto
8. corruption and sentencing of white house officials and congressmen.

but we did scare off those gays who wanted to get married. Good Job team.

Who cares about Hage? He's an effective senator from a small midwestern state. As far as I can tell he has as much chance winning the presidency as Mike Gravel. And for all his bluster how much courage does it take to be opposed to an unpopular war? Finally why would bloomberg pick him to run as VP? Who does Hagel bring to the table? Conservatives don't like him and the anti war crowd has a lot better candidates to choose from.

Our friends the unions. Amusing.

Of course those airlines had perfect management, ideal pricing, no-cost union benefits and no competition. too bad we can't keep all failing businesses around forever. I miss air america.

We Libs prefer to punish succesful profitable companies and find a way to keep the failures around with big government handouts. That is the only way we can get those dolts to vote for us.

I love it when Republican fanatics spout out hateful rhetoric based on scoring points but wrong on facts. As we all know this administration has bailed out the airlines. How many times have we bailed out DELTA in the last 5 years? So, thanks to this administration, even if you haven't been on a plane, you've paid to subsidize cheap flights for others. So now, thanks to republicans we're keeping failed businesses afloat and subsidizing thouse who can afford to fly to fly a little cheaper. Wow, way to sacrifice your free market ideals to bail out your friends.

Here's something a republican will never say: "I was wrong". yes it was enacted by Carter in 78. Reagan expanded airlines deregulation as well as disastrous bank deregulation. As for it working, as you know braniff wasn't the only one to go under:
Eastern
Western
TWA
Piedmont
Braniff
PeoplExpress
PanAm

Delta, American and most every big chain (save Southwest air) has filed for bankruptcy, some several times.

Justice Breyer was very proud of his work on drafting airline deregulation, ten years before he took a Federal Court bench, and I think rightly so. His opponents at confirmation were all self proclaimed liberals.

Just another irony of history.

While we are talking about who-did-what-to-whom-when,
it is always refreshing to remember that President Nixon invented "Affirmative Action" in an Executive Order.

But seriously, folks: Does not the prospect of a centrist party not beholden, for the time being, to an ideology, intrigue?

can't answer Marks question about who, but remember the bill.

Hagel. He could be Trouble with a capital T for the Democrats.

Newtster is in. Takes the Luster off of Guiliani's rose if he hadn't already lost it by coming out of the closet as Pro Choice.

Newt undercuts the seven conservative dwarfs and has the name recogition and acceptance among the radical right to be their "Great White Hope" (racial suggestion intentional). That leaves the moderate Rebpublicans in a Lurch.

Then comes Hagel. Moderate enough to appeal to middle of the road Republicans who are afraid of the government going fascist if an ultra-conservative manages to get nominated and win in 08. Also appeals to the anti-war white Reagan democrats who are uncomfortable with Mr. Obama and are part of the polarized 48% of the electorate who could never vote for Hillary.

Can't wait to see how Rahm deals with that bag of worms.

When DCAustinite finally said something other than a cute pithy statement with all of the depth of a Nancy Pelosi press release, the ignorance snuck right out. I love it when a rat goes for the cheese. It means I get to bust them.

DCAustinite said:

"I think we also know the answer isn't deregualtion. If it were, Airlines wouldn't have gone bankrupt handfuls of times since then. Remember? Reagan busted the airline unions by deregulation? How's that worked out? Let's ask braniff."

It wasn't Reagan who deregulated airlines, it was Jimmy Carter, Ted Kennedy and (now Justice) Stephen Breyer.

http://www.aei-brookings.org/admin/authorpdfs/page.php?id=308

And airline deregulation WORKED. Just ask the guys over at Greyhound Bus Lines. Deregulation LOWERED air fairs and made air travel accessible to people with less money, who used to have to take the bus. I dont care if Braniff went bankrupt, they should have provided a service that the consumer found value in. They charged too much because they were inefficient, and consumers prefer efficient low cost providers.

An illinformed liberal will rant about deregulation and fail to understand that there is a huge consensus about how well markets work. Its so huge that Ted Kennedy and I are in the mainstream, and liberal moonbats are out of it. The leftist moonbats in "the base" complain about deregulation, even while Ted Kennedy and Stephen Breyer started it.

I posted the request for memory support about Goldwater and McGovern in 1978 and inadvertently left out my identification.

One must wonder if positions on the hard left and hard right are held entirely for the pleasure of disagreeing with the other.
Hard cases make bad law and hard lines in politics make bad policy. Jim D has nailed the appeal of a third party, in this environment, on the head.

Still, there is value in listening to each other. And in that spirit, I want someone to refresh my memory of long ago.

I am remembering that in 1978 Sen. Goldwater and Sen. McGovern cosponsored a bill to send American troops into Cambodia after Pol Pot.

If I remember correctly, the bill was buried in the derision of the conservatives and liberals for whom Goldwater and McGovern had so recently been the spokesmen.

Please either note the irony of history as I remember it or correct my recollection, if it is faulty.

in order to humiliate ourselves fully, we intend to surrender to the French and allow them to act as surrogate surrenderers for us. We are willing to give up to anyone who is interested in killing us.

Surrender to whom?
Sunni insurrectionists?
Shiite counter-insurrectionists?
Shiite anti-Americans?
Iraqi nationalists? (choose faction)
Al Queda cells (choose faction)
Suicide bombers - (choose faction)?
Iran?
Syria?
"Radical Islam"?
Please clarify in order that your mission may be accomplished.

Of course those airlines had perfect management, ideal pricing, no-cost union benefits and no competition. too bad we can't keep all failing businesses around forever. I miss air america.

We Libs prefer to punish succesful profitable companies and find a way to keep the failures around with big government handouts. That is the only way we can get those dolts to vote for us.

If we outlawed all fearmongering, there wouod be no Republican voters left.

Hey, look out! I think I hear one of saddam's drone planes! It's full of yellowcake!

some people apparently do nothing but post on this blog all day long... i think that qualifies as mental illness.

Careful with self-diagnosis. You might want to see a professional.

Wow, this thread is even worse than usual today for invenctive, phantom straw man arguments and just plain juvenile ranting.

That is why I, and millions like me, would love to see a centrist third party take root.

I don't think the shills compain about corporations making money, that's a myth of the right. They complain about how they treat people. Also, we've got to work with corporations to increase the standards of living, not fight them, so if they take money from them ,that's not necessarily antithetical to their principles. there is a way to profit and guarantee good wages for good work. It isn't outsourcing. it isn't massive trade imbalances, it isn't doing your damndest to devalue the dollar. these are all temporary solutions to a troubling weakness. I think we also know the answer isn't deregualtion. If it were, Airlines wouldn't have gone bankrupt handfuls of times since then. Remember? Reagan busted the airline unions by deregulation? How's that worked out? Let's ask braniff.

some people apparently do nothing but post on this blog all day long... i think that qualifies as mental illness.

If we outlawed all moronic behavior, there wouod be no Democratic voters left.

I don't complain about corporations, I just try to hold them accountable on price as a consumer.

I think its great when Edwards and Chelsea make money. What is funny though is all the shills for Hillary and Edwards complain about corporations while their candidates rake in the money and/or get rich.

'Big business does not have the peopole's best interest at heart?'

Big business has no interests whatever except to profit, in any way possible. What happens to the human race is irrelevant to them. A corporation, by law, exists only to create capital, and they will do so in any possible way.

"192 Democrats vote for immediate surrender."

what surrender? The war is over, remember? Mission accomplished. We're voting to leave Iraq with the beautiful wonderful seed of democracy Bush planted. Why, every day we hear from conservatives that the press exxagerates how bad it is over there, and that really it's just some trouble between them, so I say, they're right, it's not that bad, and we can go focus on catching osama.

Bsimon, I agree, but it is extremely irresponsible for a public figure to not wear their seatbelt or a helmet when riding a motorcycle. And yes I think Gov Corzine in NJ is just as bad.

Seatbelts are the number one, NUMBER ONE, protective device in any car. You can have eighteen airbags but if you don't wear your seatbelt your chances of surviving a serious accident are less then some guy in a 84 Honda with no airbags but wearing his seatbelt. And motorcycle helmets, I mean you have to be a complete MORON to ride a motorcycle without a helmet.

"Some morons post about "corporate shills". The real corporate shills are the Chelseas and the John Edwards of the world, who get rich off the very things the wacko left is always complaining about."

To win an argument a the whacko right will sacrifice his principles and complain about 'big bad corporations'. I'm no fan of Hillary, but what's your point? She takes big money from big business? Big business does not have the peopole's best interest at heart? I agree, sounds like you're arguing for regulation.

192 Democrats vote for immediate surrender. no one thinks this is unsual and it goes unreported and unremarkable. not even one Republican is so stupid to do this in the middle of a war.

Everyone likes to talk how hillary might even win if the war continues without an overwhelming victory prior to the election. More to the point is how big a loss she will experience if the war continues without an overwhelming loss by american soldiers.

there is only one way for hillary to win: do not pursue an American outcome in Iraq. retreat and surrender and blame it on the Rs.

"Razorback and I would like to announce our intent to respond to every criticism of conservatives, fundamentalists, Caucasians, gun owners, and Republicans by asking, "I know you are, but what am I?" "

Wow, you live in the greatest place on earth with the best opportunities and you wtill find ways to self-pity and feel sorry for yourself. It's just you against the world, eh?

Hillary and Chelsea's hedge fund:

"For now Chelsea is busy with her work at Avenue Capital, a $12 billion New York-based hedge fund run by Marc Lasry, a longtime Clinton donor. Avenue Capital employees have contributed more than $30,000 to Hillary Clinton's presidential bid so far, campaign finance records show."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18654658/

Lets see what Avenue Capital's US strategy is:

http://www.avenuecapital.com/us.htm

Companies in financial distress or undergoing a turnaround (You mean lLike those high risk mortgage brokers?)

Companies in bankruptcy, reorganization or liquidation (You mean like Delta Airlines, where you use bankruptcy to union bust, and then sell to the highest bidder?)

Companies that are undervalued because of discrete extraordinary events (You mean like buying the dip in Taco Bell's holding company in the middle of the e coli scare?)

Companies whose securities the firm's investment team believes to be undervalued (Is this how the rich get richer?)

Some morons post about "corporate shills". The real corporate shills are the Chelseas and the John Edwards of the world, who get rich off the very things the wacko left is always complaining about.

You should spend less time lashing at the democrats and spend more time trying to keep the republican party from splitting and capsizing. But hey, waste your eneergies on me. :-)

Razorback and I would like to announce our intent to respond to every criticism of conservatives, fundamentalists, Caucasians, gun owners, and Republicans by asking, "I know you are, but what am I?"

We feel that this approach will best inform the reader as to the nuances of our positions, and open the floor to a detailed discussion of their pros and cons.

Not!

anonymous coward wrote
"Keep on riding without a helmet -- good for you. And be sure to drive very fast and dangerously. If we're lucky, that'll mean one less useless R candidate."

What is wrong with you? It takes a real sicko to wish a candidate violent death because he holds opinions different from yours.

"We're gracious winners" guffaw!

the party of unlimited investigations and retribution. no policy or laws yet though. Check back next Spring.

"call people names when their own party is circling the drain." Indeed, that seems to be your Liberal approach as evidenced here.

Last Friday, drindl said:

"which is why i wish the right would stop demonizing democrats. we are no different from you, we want the same thing for our kids -- a bright future. we may differ from you on the ways to achieve that, but that doesn't make us 'evil' or 'like the terrorists'. can you imagine how hurtful and insulting it is, when you love your country and volunteer, and try to change things for the better, to be constantly accused of treason?

but this is what we get, 24 hours a day, from places like fox and hannity and limbaugh and pretty much all republicans. i am tired of being trashed and assaulted and insulted. please stop.

Posted by: drindl | May 11, 2007 06:59 PM"

Today drindl said:

"also think the fact that there's currently not much difference between the republican party and the mob is turning a lot of people off. It isn't just disparate cases of corruption -- everything they do is about ripping off taxpayers.

Posted by: drindl | May 14, 2007 11:35 AM"

How pathetic. What a hypocrite. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Kinn I joyn the club. i hate those geys two. Eye ken feyend some nise things to cay about yew to.

A republican whining about hateful speech is a delight to see. One of life's great ironies. Ah well, I guess that's all they can do is call people names when their own party is circling the drain. It's okay, there's room for nost everybody on the democratic side. We're gracious winners. We'll have room even for you, KOZ, in 2009 when we've killed osama, gotten out of Iraq, and righted the economy. See you then!

IgnoRANT coward wants to repeal hamburgers, french fries, and cokes. The man is a nutcase... he's asking for more obesity. Begging...

'Coward ate at McDonalds without wearing a bib.'

Keep on eating without a bib -- good for you. And be sure to eat very fast and dangerously. If we're lucky, that'll mean one less useless D poster

"They are deranged with hate. That's all they live for."

"If we're lucky, that'll mean one less useless R candidate"

"well I don't agree with much of what they seem to believe, but at least they are sane -- which is a contrast with every other R candidate."

the moonbat mutual admiration society will come to order. First thing on the agenda, who do we hate the most today? cheney, Bush, condi? anyone heard anything mean from Huff or salon?

Hagel should run, I'm sure his Buchanan/Nader-like numbers would do wonders for his ego.

I admire Hagel for his stand on Iraq, but other than that issue he still pretty much tows the GOP line.

Bloomberg on the otherhand has proven to be a dynamic and visionary leader in NYC, which is amazing considering his not-so-charasmatic demeanor. I'd vote for him in a heartbeat over any of the candidates running from either party.

If Hagel really wants to run as an independent he ought to call former Senator Bill Bradley and have a serious heart to heart about the idea. Bradley and Hagel would make a formidable team. I saw Bradley on the Colbert Report and he could be one heck of a VP or Presidential candidate. Bill Bradley was progressive before there was such a thing.

Also If the democrats put up Hillary and the Republicans nominate any of the clowns they have now then a true (one R and one D) third party could sweep the election.

drindl: might be why they have to run as a third party! though i'm still wondering if brownback will run as the religious independent if the republican nominee is too moderate. very curious as to how this will all turn out.

Tancredo wants to repeal seat belt, helmet, and speed limit laws. The man is a nutcase... he's asking for more highway deaths. Begging...

'Tancredo rode a Harley Davidson motorcycle to a rally without wearing a helmet.'

Keep on riding without a helmet -- good for you. And be sure to drive very fast and dangerously. If we're lucky, that'll mean one less useless R candidate.

a SIMPLE attempt to split the anti-war vet. After the elections he will ge tback in step. Wow. The republicans really don't give a hoot about this country at all do they. Anyhting to get/keep power and line their pockets. What a bunch of sellouts

Dispelling the myth about Rudy:

'Poll: New Yorkers Like Bloomberg Better Than Rudy

The New York Daily News has a new poll out of city residents, showing that the current Mayor, Mike Bloomberg, is preferred over his predecessor Rudy Giuliani by a wide margin, either for Mayor or for President. The poll asked two questions -- a) "Who do you think was the better Mayor?" with Bloomberg topping Giuliani 56%-29%, and b) "Who do you think would make a better President?" with Bloomberg against beating Rudy 46%-29%. The poll would indicate that only about 29% of actual New Yorkers could be described as fans of "America's Mayor."

Hagel and Bloomberg -- well I don't agree with much of what they seem to believe, but at least they are sane -- which is a contrast with every other R candidate.