I, actually, don't know what S. Royal really about is. But I doubt that there is another woman currently, who wanted or wants to become a leader of the developed country, having already proven inability to do it, as Hillary has. So, this comparison with essential probability makes Hillary looks better, but the majority of this country knows very well her real outlook, and doesn't want her again in the White House.

Sego's (and also Bachelet's) advice to Ankleless Annie, "You don't have to marry the bum," seems to have lost its punch.

I agree with everything Radical Patriot just said. I'm adding my two cents.

The reason nobody votes in america is because most people are not represented. The Red Scare of the fifties threatened to lock up or kill anyone with a true leftist agenda. That is not democracy. If you say, " we are free but you can't think that." When does it stop. You have the modern day conservative movement that thinks they are right, their way of life should be mandated as "the american way."

The right would say. "America IS a free country. If you look/talk/act/do the same hobbies as me." That is not freedom. That is slavery

The problem in comparing US voting to that in France is that in the French general election leading up to the runoff, nearly 85% of the voting populace voted. That means the candidate has to consider the voting populace as a whole.

The only significant comparison of Royal to Hillary is not that they are women. Both countries are quite ready to elect a woman. But not those women. Royal was not the right [woman] candidate for the presidency of France. Hillary is not the right [woman] candidate for the presidency of the US.

We in the US think it's a great turnout if we hit 50%. So what part of the 50% in America votes? Probably the blind partisans voting strictly for one party or the other, regardless of the candidates. How small a percentage of people are really trying to think through what the candidates are and what they represent for the country? But most of that 50% are voting with their genitals [by candidate's gender] or with their skin [by the candidate's race] or with their spleen [against which candidate they hate the most] rather than with their brains.

Stephen Cassidy is quite right that the candidate who should really be getting the scrutiny of voters and media alike is Bill Richardson.

Stephen, I think you are naive when you say that "Results, experience and leadership skills matter... ." If that were true, this country would have never re-elected G.W. Bush in 2004. Presidential elections are much more about identity politics and leadership imagry (as opposed to real leadership skills) than anything else. Sarkozy's "A France that wakes up early" is reminiscent of Ronald Reagan's "Morning in America." It feels right; the voters identify with it; and it projects the image of a leader (without really leading anything.)

Tying this into my original thesis: women don't want to be led by women. They don't identify with powerful women, ergo the vanished gender gap. Results and experience hardly enter into the equation at all

You are making a mistake focusing on gender in trying to find lessons for the U.S. That's simplist reasoning, the analysis needs to be deeper.

Some aspects of Western democracies are universal. Why does a voter support a candidate, whether in France or U.S.?

Results, experience and leadership skills matter to French and American voters. The lesson in the French Presidential elections of 2007 for both Republican and Democratic voters is that if they nominate a candidate without a record of accomplishment and no foreign policy experience they risk defeat in November 2008.

Here is what one person wrote on Daily Kos at http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/5/6/2345/56445 immediately prior to the vote in France:

"So why is liberal France on the verge of voting for a right-wing candidate? Because the left nominated a largely inexperienced candidate who hasn't faced the kinds of challenges her opponent had to face while in office. More important, her opponent is perceived as having he ability to make the right decisions under tough circumstancs. Royal's experience on the other hand, pales in comparison.

So I suppose the prime lesson we can draw from the French election is the following:

We should nominate people who make tough decisions, but also make the right decisions. The only candidate I can think of in the current pack is Bill Richardson by virtue of his rich experience at the UN, the Department of Energy, as well as the Governorship of New Mexico. (Clark and Gore also meet this criteria, but they haven't declared...yet). Senators in this country are automatically rewarded with rock star status, eventhough their jobs basically entail sitting around Capitol Hill,attending receptions and fundraisers, as well as lining their pockets with special interest money. Is that leadership? Leadership means getting out there in the world and doing something and not worrying about what your pollster says."

I have mice, or as I prefer to call them, "Libs." This weekend, I am going to leave some bread crumbs all over the kitchen floor and leave the house, but what the mice don't know is that I am secretly recording them on microphones I have hidden in the floor. When the Libs are beginning to relax, I will press a special button on my headgear and my cat Gipper will be released from the cupboard, where I have been hiding him for two days. He will eat the Libs alive, and make a huge bloody mess. Listening over the microphones, I will touch myself repeatedly, saying "ZOOOOUUUK.... ZOOOOUUUK..." and imagining Bill Kristol disciplining me in front of Ann Coulter while she clutches a rolled-up and lubricated copy of the Wall Street Journal. She is preparing to insert it into.... well, you get the idea.

I hate Libs. Why? What else did you think I was implying?

There are no lessons for me to learn. Or maybe there are. I don't know. I'm not really Hillary Clinton.

Royal lost the female vote. While Hillary may have Emily's list in her back pocket, she cannot count on winning the majority of female voters. A Clinton candidacy will cost the Democratic Party some portion of the gender-gap advantage that it has traditionally enjoyed. THAT is a very serious concern for the party, and an important lesson Democrats need to learn from the Royal defeat.

I can't help myself soemtimes lylepink. These people think this is a game. People are dying and starving everyday. This is not a game in any sense of the word. As they say. The truth will set us free

:)

rufus1133: Now U R getting the message.

Reading is good. Watching Fox is bad :)

Another one bites the dust. One more down. 999 more to go.

"Paul Wolfowitz came under renewed pressure to resign as World Bank president on Monday as a bank committee formally transmitted its findings that he was guilty of a conflict of interest in arranging for a pay raise and promotion in 2005 to Shaha Ali Riza, his companion"

rufus1133: May I suggest a little less crack in your coffee. After a bit of reading it does get tiresome as to what point you are trying to get across. Less is better. a point would be good too.

rufus1133: May I suggest a little less in your comments. After a bit of reading it does get tiresome as to what point you are trying to get across. Less is better.

That's true Dr. No. The comparision is ridiculous. It is just an attempt to discredit Hillary. Maybe that's why so many people are speaking off of topic.

No offense, but this is a silly entry. Royal lost because she was perceived as inept and inexperienced, making gaffes while speaking, and supporting a policy so liberal that it couldnt't even appeal to the average Frenchman! Hillary, by contrast, is experienced (former First Lady and 2-term senator), extremely calculating, and has moderated her policy to win in conservative areas (see landslide in traditionally conservative upstate NY in last year's senate campaign). And people in France were ready to vote for a woman - just as they are, I think, here - but Royal was just a horrible candidate espousing the wrong views for the mainstream French. Even her anti-American rhetoric could not cloud her quixotic economic policies.

Let me rephrase my above post.

Excellent post blank poster. "a rose by any other name". (Basically who cares about the name, we are all anonymous)

Just wanted to clarify. I didn't want to confuse the queenof zouk or razor by misspelling a word. Also Blank is not in the cave, these propogandists are. I know it's bright at first zouk/razor. Your eyes will adjust.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plato%27s_cave

Another similarity may be that even though they both started ahead in the polls, they both may be unelectable. Sego blundered where Hill won't but she may still win the nomination and have enough 'dislikes' in the polls to loose the election.The're enough conservative votes out there that don't forgive nor think... remember they elected and re-elected Bush ?
Pres. Johnson was realistic enough to forgo the nomination, not many politicians are so... not Hill,hubris wins...

n 1945, the former Dutch manager of the Rotterdam bank resumed control only to discover that he was sitting on a huge pile of hidden Nazi assets. In 1947, the manager threatened to inform Dutch authorities, and was immediately fired by the Thyssens. The somewhat naive bank manager then fled to New York City where he intended to talk to Union Bank director Prescott Bush. As Gowen's Dutch source recalled, the manager intended "to reveal [to Prescott Bush] the truth about Baron Heinrich and the Rotterdam Bank, [in order that] some or all of the Thyssen interests in the Thyssen Group might be seized and confiscated as German enemy property. "The manager's body was found in New York two weeks later.

Similarly, in 1996 a Dutch journalist Eddy Roever went to London to interview the Baron, who was neighbors with Margaret Thatcher. Roever's body was discovered two days later.

For the next five years, the president of France will be Nicolas Sarkozy, a true conservative -- or, at least, as conservative as a French politician can realistically be. He speaks very little English, but has the courage to admit that there are things in England and America that France would do well to emulate.

Until now, that kind of courage would have been lethal for any French politician. He also dislikes, openly, the dominant political correctness and believes that gangsters, illegal immigrants, and arsonists are not basically nice people or "victims," but that they must be dealt with -- notions all certain to give "progressives" palpitations.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MWVkNzBlOWQzOTRlM2UyZDQ0MGFlZjlhOTFkNWRmMWM=

It was a matter of public record that the Bush holdings were seized by the US government after the Nazis overran Holland. In 1951, the Bush's reclaimed Union Bank from the US Alien Property Custodian, along with their "neutral" Dutch assets.

Don't want to talk about the truth, do you cowards? Don't you love the way they try to squirm, pretend the truth isn't true? The Bushes were nazi lovers, little brains. It's a fact.

It was me, I was on the grassy knoll. I buried Hoffa on my potatoe farm in Idaho. The government had aliens in the Roswell New Mexico municipal jail, until I let them go. That thing you saw that looked like a parachute behind the twin towers on 9/11. That was me too. Im not just on the board of Exxon Mobil, I am Exxon Mobil. Elivis is still alive. He helped recount chads in Pensacola in 2000. I melted the snow cap on Mt Victoria with my blowtorch. I told Truman to drop an Abomb on the Japs, wait five days, and then do it again. I am the voice in Mark David Chapman's head that told him to shoot John Lennon. Just cut and paste this post, that is all the proof you need.

It was a matter of public record that the Bush holdings were seized by the US government after the Nazis overran Holland. In 1951, the Bush's reclaimed Union Bank from the US Alien Property Custodian, along with their "neutral" Dutch assets.

Don't want to talk about the truth, do you cowards? Don't you love the way they try to squirm, pretend the truth isn't true? The Bushes were nazi lovers, little brains. It's a fact.

Excellent posts balnk post.

"a rose by any other name". We should aLL fear the ignorant the most. Those that would hide in a cave yet tell you what is. Those who would only watch propoganda then try and tell you the "news"

I wanna add this from salon.com:

"Fascist America,

1. Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy

2. Create a gulag

Once you have got everyone scared, the next step is to create a prison system outside the rule of law (as Bush put it, he wanted the American detention centre at Guantánamo Bay to be situated in legal "outer space") - where torture takes place.

3.Develop a thug caste

4. Set up an internal surveillance system

5. Harass citizens' groups

6. Engage in arbitrary detention and release

7. Target key individuals

8. Control the press

Italy in the 1920s, Germany in the 30s, East Germany in the 50s, Czechoslovakia in the 60s, the Latin American dictatorships in the 70s, China in the 80s and 90s - all dictatorships and would-be dictators target newspapers and journalists. They threaten and harass them in more open societies that they are seeking to close, and they arrest them and worse in societies that have been closed already.

The Committee to Protect Journalists says arrests of US journalists are at an all-time high: Josh Wolf (no relation), a blogger in San Francisco, has been put in jail for a year for refusing to turn over video of an anti-war demonstration; Homeland Security brought a criminal complaint against reporter Greg Palast, claiming he threatened "critical infrastructure" when he and a TV producer were filming victims of Hurricane Katrina in Louisiana. Palast had written a bestseller critical of the Bush administration.

Other reporters and writers have been punished in other ways. Joseph C Wilson accused Bush, in a New York Times op-ed, of leading the country to war on the basis of a false charge that Saddam Hussein had acquired yellowcake uranium in Niger. His wife, Valerie Plame, was outed as a CIA spy - a form of retaliation that ended her career.

Prosecution and job loss are nothing, though, compared with how the US is treating journalists seeking to cover the conflict in Iraq in an unbiased way. The Committee to Protect Journalists has documented multiple accounts of the US military in Iraq firing upon or threatening to fire upon unembedded (meaning independent) reporters and camera operators from organisations ranging from al-Jazeera to the BBC. While westerners may question the accounts by al-Jazeera, they should pay attention to the accounts of reporters such as the BBC's Kate Adie. In some cases reporters have been wounded or killed, including ITN's Terry Lloyd in 2003. Both CBS and the Associated Press in Iraq had staff members seized by the US military and taken to violent prisons; the news organisations were unable to see the evidence against their staffers.

Over time in closing societies, real news is supplanted by fake news and false documents. Pinochet showed Chilean citizens falsified documents to back up his claim that terrorists had been about to attack the nation. The yellowcake charge, too, was based on forged papers.

You won't have a shutdown of news in modern America - it is not possible. But you can have, as Frank Rich and Sidney Blumenthal have pointed out, a steady stream of lies polluting the news well. What you already have is a White House directing a stream of false information that is so relentless that it is increasingly hard to sort out truth from untruth. In a fascist system, it's not the lies that count but the muddying. When citizens can't tell real news from fake, they give up their demands for accountability bit by bit.

9. Dissent equals treason

Cast dissent as "treason" and criticism as "espionage'. Every closing society does this, just as it elaborates laws that increasingly criminalise certain kinds of speech and expand the definition of "spy" and "traitor". When Bill Keller, the publisher of the New York Times, ran the Lichtblau/Risen stories, Bush called the Times' leaking of classified information "disgraceful", while Republicans in Congress called for Keller to be charged with treason, and rightwing commentators and news outlets kept up the "treason" drumbeat. Some commentators, as Conason noted, reminded readers smugly that one penalty for violating the Espionage Act is execution.

10. Suspend the rule of law

The John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007 gave the president new powers over the national guard. This means that in a national emergency - which the president now has enhanced powers to declare - he can send Michigan's militia to enforce a state of emergency that he has declared in Oregon, over the objections of the state's governor and its citizens.

Peace to you all. You should fear the right these days. They KNOW they are marching to lies and propganda. Yet they still march

I read nazi books all day long. It is a subject i really do know something about. thank you bloggers for bringing up the subject. I will continue to educate you the rest of the day. and i don't have to go to Kos to get my ideas. I secretly always wished I was a nazi guard, the uniform, the slaves, the chicks, the control over everything....

ooops, I think I had an accident.

Bust the f****** hooligan heads Sarko.

The sinister cooperation between prominent American businessmen and their counterparts in Hitler's Germany is an important episode whose details are still being revealed by historians. It instructs us about the terrible crimes that can be committed in the pursuit of profit by men (and they were all men) who regard themselves as a superior race and class. It implicates such famous names as Ford, Standard Oil, General Motors and Dupont.

According to archival and declassified material recently published, Prescott Bush Sr., the founder of the Bush political dynasty, had much to answer for during his earlier career on Wall Street. Picking up on an investigative story in the New Hampshire Gazette, last week the Associated Press reported on Prescott Sr.'s role in the Union Banking Corp., which served as a front for Thyssen's conglomerate.

Quite reasonably, the U.S. government suspected Union Banking of aiding the Nazis through Thyssen, who had helped to finance Hitler's rise and whose coal and steel holdings were integral to the German war machine. That suspicion led federal officials to seize Union Banking's assets in October 1942 under the Trading With the Enemy Act. While Prescott Sr. held only a single share of Union Banking stock, there were only seven in total -- and he also served as one of seven corporate directors whose apparent purpose was to help Thyssen conceal the bank's real ownership.

Paris - Youths fought police and burned cars in cities across France for a second night after Nicolas Sarkozy's presidential victory, prompting the leader of the defeated Socialists to appeal on Tuesday for calm. Some 500 youths shouting ''Sarko, fascist!'' went on a rampage in the Bastille district of eastern Paris on Monday night, burning 10 cars, looting two stores including a supermarket and smashing windows /snip/ More than 500 cars were set alight in cities and suburbs across the country

'The Bush family were very big supporters of eugenics (including Prescott, his partner Harriman and Pres. Bush I), were well-known to be anti-Semitic and that Hitler's hatred for and intention to kill the Jews was well-known long before he ever came to power. It also ignores that in 1930's America had a huge and very public Nazi movement, which hardly fits into the picture of America's wealthiest corporate bosses being ignorant of what they were supporting. To say you actively supported Hitler for a decade but didn't know he intended to kill millions of Jews, Poles, Russians, Gypsies is exactly the defense the Nazis used at Nuremberg. Does anybody really think Prescott Bush, Rockefeller, Ford etc. were clueless as to what Hitler was up to during the time they were actively funding and ideologically supporting him and his IG Farben concentration camp-slave labor factories?

As to the issue of the number of shares in Union Bank, yes, Prescott had only one share according to the 11/7/42 Congressional Record, but there were only seven shareholders total. It's not like he was one of thousands of shareholders.
See the Federal Register page here: http://www.mbpolitics.com/bush2000/Vesting.htm

Blaming GW Bush for Prescott's action would indeed be unfair if that was all there is to it. In reality, the entire three generation Bush political dynasty has countless connections to Nazis, fascism, eugenics, corporate crime, the CIA bringing thousands of former SS officials to the US, the pharmaceutical companies formerly known as IG Farben etc. Their family fortune - which is the basis for every Bush's political position today - all came directly from supporting the Nazis.'

The proof is in the National Archives and the Federal Register.

JKrish: You point out that anyone can refer to a column, blog, e.t.c., that will back any arguement they wish to make, btw, I don't use them for that reason. Another thing that must be obvious is that anytime Hillary, my favorite, is mentioned is the "nut jobs", "wackos" are out in full force, for Hillary is going to be the next POTUS and they just cannot admit it to themselves when they know it is true. The word is "Denial".

The U.S. Senate gutted the latest attempt Monday to legalize prescription drug imports from Canada and other countries. Despite a lot of support for the plan from both Democrats and Republicans, senators ultimately decided to require that the Food and Drug Administration first certify the imports are safe and effective.

Still nothing new from the Dems. We govern like we ran -with spite and envy. After we have done nothing for the next two years, we will count on the press to spin us out of this.

I just can't stop talking about nazis. they are so cool, what with their contempt of equality, coercion of the press and centralized economic system. they are just like american democrats. now do you see why I love them so.

All conspiracy theories are true, because anything that tends to prove the conspiracy isn't true is just planted by the conspiracy to conceal its existence.

Bush Clinton Bush CLINTON. It is all starting to make sence now. I am a builderberger. My cover has been blown. Rufus1133 must be a secret agent.

Samuel Prescott Bush was an early president of the National Association of Manufacturers (NAM), which is has always been anti-worker, anti-consumer-rights, and ultra-conservative. Three past presidents of NAM helped Robert Welch form the John Birch Society, to uphold the tradition of Sam Bush -- Bush's Buckeye Steel employees worked seven days per week, 12 hours per day. It's not a far step for son Prescott Bush managing Auschwitz slave labor worked to death.

Prescott Sheldon Bush -- Best known for serving in the US armed forces in Arizona during WWI spent defacing Geronimo's grave and grave-robbing the skull for his germanic secret piracy club "Skull and Bones Society" headquartered at Yale, University. [22] [23] [24] What he is not famous for was his financier banker support of Adolph Hitler, the Nazi Storm Troopers, Auschwitz and death camps. In his quest to get rich Prescott Bush collaborated with the Nazis before war broke out and through the year after Pearl Harbor.

"|" President Roosevelt did not stop them fearing a scandal might lead to another stock market crash or lower U.S. morale.

Some corporate leaders threatened to withdraw their support if Roosevelt exposed them."

Add to the P. Bush A Hitler G Bush 60 year old conspiracy conspiracy FDR and Henry Ford.

Inquiring minds want to know what did Eleanor know and when did she know it. Is she part of the conspiracy too? Because we all know she is Hillary's hero. Are we going to have to add Hillary too? Bill? It just gets nuttier and nuttier.

Who did nazi's hate? Homosexuals. Academics. 'Elites'. Unions...

The Depression is often cited as one of the causes of the takeover of Germany by the Nazis. Small merchants and professionals had become powerless. Large businesses were co-opted (largely, willingly). The German labor movement quickly was quickly suppressed and replaced with abominations (Nazi labor unions), their pre-Nazi leadership sent to concentration camps or murdered.

Who did Nazi's love? Bankers. Corporatists. Ceos.

Modern 'movement conservatism' has it roots in fascism.

Some vague unsupported statment about Bush's grandfather "ties" to nazis doesn't support any conclusion unless is also supports the conclusion that rufus1133's grandfather was a moron.

Now we not only have a conspiracy, we have an intergenerational 60 plus year old conspiracy. Talk about a fruit basket turnovern.

As German bombs fell on London and Nazi tanks rolled over U.S. troops, Sosthenes Behn, president and founder of the U.S. based ITT corporation. met with his German representative to discuss improving German communication systems. ITT was designing and building Nazi phone and radio systems as well as supplying crucial parts for German bombs. Our government knew all about this, for under presidential order, U.S. companies were licensed to trade with the Nazis. The choice of who would be licensed was odd, though: while Secretary of State Breckinridge Long gave the Ford Motor Company permission to make Nazi tanks, he simultaneously blocked aid to German-Jewish refugees because the U.S. wasn't supposed to be trading with the enemy.
Other U.S. companies trading with the Third Reich were General Motors, DuPont, Standard Oil of New Jersey, Davis Oil Co., and the Chase National Bank. President Roosevelt did not stop them fearing a scandal might lead to another stock market crash or lower U.S. morale.

Some corporate leaders threatened to withdraw their support if Roosevelt exposed them. Henry Ford was a good friend of Hitler's. His book The Internatonal Jew had inspired Hitler's Mein Kampf. The Fuehrer kept Ford's picture in his office, and Ford was one of only four foreigners to receive Germany's highest civilian award. As for Sosthenes Behn, at the end of the war, he received the highest civilian award for service to his country - the United States of America.

don't run a staggeringly incompetent campaign if you expect to win.

more like don't run as a socialist/liberal if you want to win.

That France is economically the "sick man of Europe" is hard to argue with, considering its 9-percent unemployment (25 percent among youths), enormous public debt, high taxation, and slow growth.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MWVkNzBlOWQzOTRlM2UyZDQ0MGFlZjlhOTFkNWRmMWM=

While all that was essential for Sarkozy's victory, especially as his rival offered nothing but expensive platitudes and unaffordable promises, the cultural impact of the result deserves special notice.

The delusions exhibited by the French elite have been astonishing

The Socialists and Ségolène Royal have to deal with the most serious damage. She became the candidate because the rank and file of her party refused substantive change and believed that a new face and her gender would be sufficient.

Neither the new face, even surgically improved, nor her gender (40 percent of women voted against her) proved to be enough -- and her steadily moving Left in substance while making vague concessions to Bayrou managed both to alienate the radical fringes and to cool further the already lukewarm support of the traditional Socialist leadership -- a situation Hillary would do well to avoid repeating here with the left wing.

The lesson for Sen. Clinton from the Royal campaign is the same as from the Kerry campaign in '04 and the Gore campaign in '00 -- don't run a staggeringly incompetent campaign if you expect to win.

OOTTT oooo razor back. To much truth. You don't want to start to talk about G W's nazi ties. You don't want to talk about teh Baath party and their ties to Nazi Germany either. Eithe ryou are dishonest or ignorant. Either way.

SHUT YOUR MOUTH IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT.

Follow JKrish's lead. If you know something to be true, say it. If you don't know or if you are lying, don't type. It hurts both you and your cause

I never drew the conclusion between Royal and Clinton in my head, other than the fact there they are both women. Royal did not run a very efficient campaign, and even her supporters were less than enthused about her candidacy.

I don't think there are parallels to be drawn.

"|" you just made my point, by accident of course.

Prescription drugs are "monopolistic" only in the sence that we have copyright/patent laws. If Merck (stock symbol MRK, its been on a roll) invents a drug, they have exclusive right to it for a period of years. We do this so that companies have an incentive to creat new things. It works very well.

Are you against patent laws?

The reason that drugs here are more expensive in than in Canada is because Canada sets the price at just above "marginal cost" which is the point at which a seller will refuse to sell because they lose money on each sale. "Marginal costs" include only variable costs, and do not include fixed costs. The largest fixed cost in the drug business is reasearch and development. The canadians know they can get away with it because the US market is so large that the drug companies will still invent new stuff, so they are in effect shifting forcing US comsumers to pay the Canadian share of research and develompent costs.

This is why is support reimportation. It will not lower US costs very much, but it will force Canadians to pay their fair share of research and development costs, because if a drug can be sold for more in the US than in Canada, the canadian shelves will be empty.

The canadian/european model uses savings from research and development to fund a universal health care system for basic care only.

Some liberals, zealous in their advocacy of science, support stem cell research and talk of curing cancer. Then they propose modifications to the health care system that would destroy patent law or otherwise kill the incentive to produce new drugs. Their understanding of economics is too limited for them to see how the issues relate. I just wish all of the "psudo science" rhetoric was also directed towards the lack of knowledge about economics and accounting.

For more detail on a very complex and tedious topic, google

"variable costs" "fixed costs" "prescription drugs"

or review information related to the US senate debate on Medicare Part D and reimportation of drugs from the last 2 weeks.

Another point is that if you look at the stock price of Merck, you will see that, contrary to your expectations, it has not done that well under the Bush administration. The last several months have been good, but the last several years have not. This is true of Pfizer too. Excessive profits are necessarily reflected in an excessive stock price, since stockholders OWN the company. The objective way to measure excessive profits is to look at a companies stock price.

The reason I don't constantly put "proof" or links here, it is because I only speak truth. I'll leave it to the right to lie and try and justify it with "proof".

If something is truly sinister the proof is burned or never written. Why would someone put down in black and white how thye break the law. Where are all those Karl Rove emails? I heard 75% of them are missing. Where's the proof

"George Bush's problems were inherited from his namesake and maternal grandfather, George Herbert 'Bert' Walker, a native of St. Louis, who founded the banking and investment firm of G. H. Walker and Company in 1900. Later the company shifted from St. Louis to the prestigious address of 1 Wall Street. . . .

"Walker was one of Hitler's most powerful financial supporters in the United States. The relationship went all the way back to 1924, when Fritz Thyssen, the German industrialist, was financing Hitler's infant Nazi party. As mentioned in earlier chapters, there were American contributors as well.

"Some Americans were just bigots and made their connections to Germany through Allen Dulles's firm of Sullivan and Cromwell because they supported Fascism. The Dulles brothers, who were in it for profit more than ideology, arranged American investments in Nazi Germany in the 1930s to ensure that their clients did well out of the German economic recovery. . . .

Just kidding. Before razor goes off. But the Baath party did have arangments to supply the axis with oil. Early Baath, when saddam was a kid

What the Allied investigators never understood was that they were not asking Thyssen the right question. Thyssen did not need any foreign bank accounts because his family secretly owned an entire chain of banks. He did not have to transfer his Nazi assets at the end of World War II, all he had to do was transfer the ownership documents - stocks, bonds, deeds and trusts--from his bank in Berlin through his bank in Holland to his American friends in New York City: Prescott Bush and Herbert Walker. Thyssen's partners in crime were the father and father-in-law of a future President of the United States.

Bush ties to the nazis. Wow. How about the Iraq Baath party and the nazis. If the nazis would have won the war iraq would have supplied them with oil. The baath party had axis links, or better yet THEY WERE RELIGOUS FACSISTs. I gues why that's why the bush's used them to fight iran. Maybe that's why we gave so much support to iraq

This all seems to be connected soemhow :)

Though Sego didn't win and though her supporters behaved after her defeat like Michael Moore doing time on a fatty farm, she can hold her head high and still affirm to Hillary, -Il ne faut pas marier le cochon!

You said it Razor. It must be truth. Everybody else in here is wrong. rAZOR AND ZOUK ARE RIGHT. bUSH IS GREAT. War in the middle east. Money and oil to all conservatives. Sorry for living.

Good luck and god bless

God will be your judge

eorge Bush's grandfather, the late US senator Prescott Bush, was a director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany.
The Guardian has obtained confirmation from files in the US National Archives that a firm of which Prescott Bush was a director was involved with the financial architects of Nazism.

His business dealings, which continued until his company's assets were seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act, has led more than 60 years later to a civil action for damages being brought in Germany against the Bush family by two former slave labourers at Auschwitz.

Socialists like Hitler hated bankers? No. Only Jewish ones. He liked american bankers very much indeed, especially those like Preston Bush, who funded him.

JKRISH, I would accept what you say had Rick Santorum (or someone else) tried to get Bush to use military force so that he could retain his US Senate seat after he lost in 2006.

Do you really think Bush will try to stay in office beyond his term?

And by the way, a socialist is one who believes that the state should own or tightly control the implements of production. In Germany this was limited to critical industries needed to make war. Capitalits like bankers. Socialists like hitler hated bankers, particularly those of one ethnic group. Facism is not really a ideology of the right because it combines aspects of the right and the left. It is really a radicalized ideology of the center. Because it is contradictory(including elements of both the right and left), a charismatic demagogue is part of the equation, because that is usually what it takes to sell a contradictory ideology.

'|", I am still waiting for your explanation as to why the Medicare Part D drug plan is a "subsidy" when the Congressional Budget Office says that the government could not negotiate prices that were any lower than market prices.''

market prices IN THE US which are higher than anywhere in the world because of monopolistic practices.

Blarg, here is how you discipline someone:

When JKrish says "I say facsism is facsism. Just because the Nazi's version of Facsism is differant form George Bush's, doesn't mean the right are not facsist's"

YOU(Blarg) should respond:

Dear JKrish, although you and I are both progressives and disagree with the Bush Administration on just about everything, we should limit our posts to well though out logical explanations. I am concerned that when you post something like you did, that some smarmy SOB like Razorback will come along and make us all out to be a bunch of idiots that substitute a red-faced bulging-eyed spittle-flying Bush/Hitler chant for rational thought. I don't like Razorback any more than you, but lets not give the bas**** the satisfaction of teeing off on your head. Go____ (name your candidate) 2008. Peace out. Yours truly, Blarg.

A gentle rhetorical spanking, not a literal one. That is what I mean by discipline.

SEGOLENE WAS ALSO REJECTED COZ SHE ADVOCATED A SCANDNAVIAN / GERMANIC MODEL WHERE WOMEN HAVE 50% OF THE PARLIMANT'S SEATS.

THIS APPROACH WILL NEVER BE ACCEPTED IN FRANCE OR THE USA.

SHE DIDN'T EVEN GET 50% OF THE WOMEN VOTE :-))

I'm done with this site today. The rush/hannity/clones will never see what is until their avatars are off the air. Get with reality razor. The real world is so much grander than your cave existance

Dems new plan - surrender in three months.

As a French-US citizen residing in the US, Segolene demonstrated the followings:

Arrogance with her party colleagues, pandering to feminest base, control freak and ill prepared.

Senator Clinton is superior than Segolene however Bill problems and her ill fated health plan will make her loose.

The Nazi's calimed to be socialist, but they lied to their people. Once they took power their government was a fcsist right-wing governmetn. They lied. They claimed to be something they were not to abuse the power they were given. Sound familar?

Diagnose me please diagnose me J Leopold.

"It was treated as a scandal in the media when Newt Gingrich received a large advance from a publisher while he was Speaker of the House. But it was no scandal when each of the Clintons received larger advances from publishers.

When Senator Harry Reid received a million dollars from a questionable real-estate deal involving property that he no longer owned, but whose owner had gotten favorable treatment from the government, that was apparently not even an appearance of impropriety as far as most of the media were concerned.

In the case of Bill Clinton, U.S. attorneys back in Arkansas had been investigating corruption in his administration as governor before he became president. Firing all of them covered the fact that he was getting rid of those who were investigating him.

But that was no scandal, as far as the media were concerned."

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZmQ4M2JiYTA5ZDIzYzYxYjAxNWU4MTRhNGZiMWZkZWE=

Razorback, how am I supposed to "discipline" anyone here? It's not like we're all hanging out in a computer lab somewhere. I could make dozens of posts insulting people I don't like, as you do, or I could do nothing. Those are my options.

According to the Grist article you keep citing, environmentalists didn't like Bush's plan. They think it didn't go far enough, and had major loopholes. Obama's plan covers multiple classes of vehicles, so it closes the biggest loophole. Obama's plan also calls for at least twice the increase in fuel efficiency that Bush's plan does. That's why environmentalists support Obama's plan but opposed Bush's. What's your problem with that?

rufus1133, dont tell ANYONE about your proof, that way they will get rich off of it instead of you.

Sue Tenant, sue Gonzales, sue anyone that has fraudulantly submitted a false claim for government money, and you get to keep a percentage.

Razor - lie down with dogs, watch out for fleas

It is not a fair fight. how can you get satisfaction from bullying imbeciles. Talking to them about econ is like arguing with your cat. how will you know if you've won?

I prefer to wait for the sensible Libs. I rather enjoy the tint of blue in my palor.

blarg is fair and honest althbough a little short of wit. colin and judge can be worthwhile to engage. there was some upper east side diplomat named juju who was always talking philosophy who was quite educated but hopelessly clueless on street sense.

Keep in mind the base case statistic is that 1/3 of these folks think the President knew about 911 a priori. that is what you are up against. Maybe if they watched fox they might get a life.

Ok leftist moonbats, did you all see how that works?

When referenced "the law" that rufus1133 can use to get rich, I actually gave the specific site of the law, so that anyone can look up the law for themselves.

Rather than a psuedo-science claim of what is or isnt illegal, I gave the specific law. Try that sometimes moonbats, because you might just find out that the law doesn't say what you think it does.

You want proof razor? Start testifing. I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon. Don't worry. The truth is slowly getting out. Your cronies are sellouts. Eventually they are all going to spill the beans. Once Bush is out of power. Tenat, Goodling, Gonzales are just the beginning. If you want PROOF we need the right to START TELLING the truth. Without them telling the truth, the dems are goin gto have to pull some teeth. Or people are going to sell out bush. Either way you are going down:)

Whoa, last I heard this was an issue specific forum not a therapy session where one exposes one insecurities, feelings of superiority, maturity issues, generalization regarding others or lack of civility toward differing opinions.

rightwingnut logic:

The official name for the Nazi party was the National Socialist Workers Party.
The Nazis therefore were socialists.
Socialists are leftists.
The Nazis therefore were leftists.
Liberals are leftists.
Liberals therefore are Nazis.

Dave! - Unfortunately, it is the only difference. But I will allow you to post multiple citations somehow proving the contrary, all which I will disregard while incessantly calling you names and yammering and ad nausium about utter nonsense. That, apparently, is what you Bush leaguers, do when you wish to hijack a discussion tha becomes uncomfortable. And, if you spend ten minutes looking it up, you will discover that the anticedents for both movements are the same. Neoconservativism and Nazism are uncompfortably close in the totality of their beliefs.

rufus1133 says:

"News flash: when you sell your country out to line your pockets and those of your freinds that is called treason."

This is actually an improvement from Rufus, who has learned that the safest place to be is far away from any facts that can be refuted.

If what you say is true and you have PROOF, call the FBI. They need PROOF.

If you think that the FBI and the proscutors are all corrupt, here is the plan:

You can file a civil lawsuit under 31 U.S.C. Sections 3729-3733. Since you obviously have more than one instance of fraud, you need to file a separate suit on each one, in different districts. This way, eventually one of the cases will be assigned to a judge appointed by Bill Clinton or Jimmy Carter. IF you have proof. You have to have proof Rufus.

The best thing about this plan is that YOU get to keep part of the money that was fraudulantly obtained. You can get rich enough to get a big tax cut if you can PROVE what you say. Rufus, when you get rich and famous, remember poor ole humble Razorback, who put you on the road to riches.

And then there is Blarg. He should actually be fun to debate with, but he gets so irritated at the way I smash the heads of those who arn't as smart as he is, who stay stupid things that he would never say, and it upsets him so that I tee off on the defenseless morons.

Blarg, I you will discipline the morons who say stupid things that you would never say, I wouldn't have to.

This coming from a man that thinks treason is a perfectly legal approch to governence. News flash: when you sell your country out to line your pockets and those of your freinds that is called treason. When you put lackies and cronies in positions of power so your treason will be covered up, I don;t know what's that's called. Let's call that the republican manta. Dittoheads. Clones Cronies. Sellouts

KingofZouk, the reason I don't ignore them is because its so much fun to watch their posts change over the course of an afternoon.

They start out trying to list facts, but when fact after fact gets stuffed back down their nappy little heads, they quit putting facts in their posts. Its a laffer and I should be able to resist the temptation, but I cannot.

Rufas - up your dosage

rufus1133 you mindless little child if you look up the LAW on treason, then it will be perfectly obvious why these large groups that you say should fear being arrested for treason have no reason to worry.

You are, however, more of a legal scholar than MikeB, who actually said Condi would go straight to jail if she didn't show up at some congressional hearing. What a laffer that was.

Your waiting? Who do you people think you are? Who are you? Why would I do anything for you. I'm helping you already just by posting truths for you.

To everyone else. this is his movement in a nutshell he asked me:

"rufus1133, I am still waiting for your explanation of the application of the law that forbids treasons."

That forbids treason? wow. I thought everyone knew TREASON was illegal and 100 years ago people were put down for TREASON

Blarg, mostly because you just did. If you are right, why did environmentalists critize the plan?

"Enviros widely criticized the plan, arguing that it would incentivize automakers to produce heavier vehicles that could qualify for classes with looser efficiency restrictions."

http://www.grist.org/news/muck/2006/07/26/fuel-econ/

MikeB
"About the only thing that distinguishes American NeoConservativism from German Nazism is that the Nazi believed in a racial elite whereas the American belief in a social-aristocratic elite." Yeah, that's the only difference between the party of Lincoln and Nazi's.

Razor - don't waste your breath on the following ninkompoops:
MikeB
drindl
JEP
ignorant coward aka |
Rufus

they will offer you nothing but grief. when confronted they retreat, just like their representatives. they have no knowledge whatsoever of economics or even simple math. they get their info from Kos, Huff, moveon, the nation, mediamatters, etc.

I ignore them and only engage rational Libs. the final resort of these dimwits is to call names and cite fictions. you will not see links to actual websites or facts. they will call all your links fake and call you a liar - the ultimate in projection. then if you reply, they will say you started it.

My advise - ignore cowards and moonbats.

Hello

I'm a French guy, now that the presidential election is over, I'm gonna have a look at yours.

Segolene Royal made so many mistakes during her campaign, it's actually a surprise she made it to the second round. Seriously, it looked like amateurism. Between the China justice system, the 35-hour-week, one day "it's bad", the following "it's good"...

I don't know much about Hillary but it looks like she knows better what she's doing.

"Obama supporters, I am still waiting for your explanation about why Oboma's position on CAFE mileage standards is so similar to that of Bush."

It's not.

The Grist article you quoted says that Obama's overall strategy for increasing CAFE standards is similar to the one Bush proposed in the spring. But it goes on to explain the difference between the two plans.

Obama's plan would increase efficiency by 4%, or about 1 MPG, per year. That applies to both cars and light trucks. Bush's plan applies only to light trucks, and it aims for a 2 MPG increase over 4 years. The plans both set standards by auto category, not for overall fleet, and that they both call for gradual increases. But Obama's plan is much farther-reaching than Bush's, and would have much greater effects.

Considering your constant use of mischaracterizations, insults, and outright lies, why should anyone respond to your questions?

Pierre, an excellent and accurate comment!

MikeB, I am going to pretend you don't exist as well, except for when you tell a lie, then you will see that I do in fact exist.

You cannot name a tax law because you dont know anything about tax laws. You run your mouth about things you know nothing about, and you cry like a baby when I have to correct you.

Dave, I apologize for not including my name in my response above. Best regards

Sure, Hillary and Segolene are both female candidates. Sure, they both came from a conservative family before they went to the left. Sure, they both have an enormous lack of charisma. Sure, they are both fond of triangulation. Still, there is a real difference between them. Hillary is seen as a cold but really competent candidate but Segolene has shown a huge lack of issue familiarity and leadership. The french people wanted clear answers but they only got smiles. So, there is an enormous difference between Hillary and Segolene. It is called talent.

MikeB says:

"About the only thing that distinguishes American NeoConservativism from German Nazism is that the Nazi believed in a racial elite whereas the American belief in a social-aristocratic elite."

MikeB you ignorant liar, what about jury trials, what about independent judiciary, what about free speech, what about terms of office for elected officials, what about private sector ownership of critical industries, and on and on and on. Name a citizen deprived of life or property without due process? Name a citizen illegally incarcerated without due process?

You illogical psuedo-scientific moron, how could you say something so stupid and so easy to prove false?

JKrish,
Dave! quoted you and did not make any statement on what constitutes a Nazi. Dave!'s point was that your discussion on this subject was way off the topic of this blog. And if you are going to attempt to insult (especially someone's intelligence), the least you could do is spell the insult correctly - its ignoramuses.

As for Razorback, you are a blithering idiot and no one with any common sense is going to react to nor answer any of your posts in the future. I, for one, am going to assume you have simply disappeared, a sort of irritant, like spring pollen, or a flea infestation, that is treated and no longer noticed.

The wit and wisdom of John Edwards:

WASHINGTON (AP) - Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards said Tuesday that he worked for a hedge fund to learn more about financial markets and their relationship to poverty in the United States.

Edwards won't disclose how much he got paid as a consultant to Fortress Investment Group, but said he did keep the money.

Edwards said it's legitimate to ask questions about whether there is a contradiction between campaigning against poverty while working for a hedge fund that is designed to make rich people richer.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8P0AUHO0&show_article=1

You have got to admit the man has unmitigated gall.

JKrish - Actually the Nazi version of facism is more closely related to the Bush version than you might relatize. Both the National Social Party and NeoConservativism have their basis in the French Jacobites with thier philosopical basis in the writing of Federick Nietzsche, Leo Strauss and other cultural and racial elitists. About the only thing that distinguishes American NeoConservativism from German Nazism is that the Nazi believed in a racial elite whereas the American belief in a social-aristocratic elite. The British have long inflicted this sort of nonsense upon humanity with their "blue-bloods", their House Of Lords, their military General Staff and associated inbred morons.

"|", I am still waiting for your explanation as to why the Medicare Part D drug plan is a "subsidy" when the Congressional Budget Office says that the government could not negotiate prices that were any lower than market prices.

MikeB, I am still waiting for your list of tax laws that you say act as incentives for companies to ship jobs overseas and your listing of a a member of congress or candidate for president who has proposed to eliminate those tax laws.

J Leopold, I am still waiting for your explantion of discrimation in the context of selective enforcement.

rufus1133, I am still waiting for your explanation of the application of the law that forbids treasons.

Obama supporters, I am still waiting for your explanation about why Oboma's position on CAFE mileage standards is so similar to that of Bush.

Blarg, (who at least attempts factual logical debate) what would you consider an ideal electric generation mix (percentage coal, nuclear, natural gas, alternative) and how much more expensive would your ideal mix be as compared with what we have now.

Edwards supporters, I am still waiting for your explanation of why your candidate chooses "health care markets" over price controls for health care the same way that Bush did for prescription drug coverage.

Yes I am uncivil, and yes I call names, largely in response to others, but I also debate the facts in a way that others on here do not. When I am asked serious questions, I answer them and provide sources.

By that point, it is not facsism unless said govt. equals the Nazi's. Dave! and Zouk claim that the Nazi's are facsist. Fascism cannot exist without a swastika to them I guess. What a bunch of ignoramouses

gOOD IDEA BLANK POSTER. sHOLD i CALL THE fcc? What should I tell them? Please do your job. Ok, so it's my, or a responsible citizens, responsibility to police the airwarves. To the judge point. Who am I to call. Isn't the Bush administration placing political cronies in all judicial positions. Isn't the Attorney General of the US a personal Attorney now. It is not my job to police the airwaves. It is not my job to go after Bill O, HANNITY AND RUSH. That is the FCC's job. I have a job already. If the FCC or judges or lawyers are political cronies, they will not do their job.

Another rationazation to why people aren't responsibile for their own actions .The right think if no one is looking or if no one is caught, there is not a crime.

An American in Paris,
"I believe that Hillary is a much more capable and exciting candidate." Capable yes. Exciting i don't know about. But Ségo is definitely the hotter of the two.

Sarkozy's first 100 days plans - One would make overtime pay tax-free to encourage people to work more. Another would put in place tougher sentencing for repeat offenders, and a third would toughen the criteria for immigrants trying to bring their families to France.

Geez, why didn't Republicans think of these things? Maybe they could run with these issues for 2008? It was a winning ticket in socialist France.

JKrish says:

"I say facsism is facsism. Just because the Nazi's version of Facsism is differant form George Bush's, doesn't mean the right are not facsist's"

The intellectual equivilant of JKrish's statement is: "That is not a bubble gum machine. That is an orangutang. Just because it is a bubble gum machine in your world doesn't mean it isn't an orangutan in mine."

That would get you and "F" from every freshman logic or philosophy professer in America.

Dave, I believe that the inept policies of current government in France had a lot more to do with the high unemployment than socialism for if socialism was the dominant issue, unemployment could have been zero since in a totally socialist society the government is the employer which is not what the French model is. Capitalism and small businesses are still dominant features of the French system combined with socialism features regarding healthcare and other populist preferences.

Ségolène Royal and Hillary Clinton can only be compared in the sense that they are both women who had/have the best chance of being the first female president of their respective countries. Besides that, I wouldn't insult Hillary through any further comparison. The thing that disappointed me most of all was Ségo's perceived lack of passion in her public speaking. This was a huge liability in the face of Nicolas Sarkozy's extraordinary oratory skills. I believe that Hillary is a much more capable and exciting candidate.

JKrish
"Just because the Nazi's version of Facsism is differant form George Bush's, doesn't mean the right are not facsist's"
You gotta love it. A blog topic devoted to two women in search of their country's highest office, and amazingly somehow some lib always moves the conversation to Nazi's and Bush. How bout the discussion on the sore losers rioting for two days in France. From the AP - "The leader of France's defeated Socialists appealed for calm Tuesday after a second night of post-election violence left cars burned and store windows smashed." Burning cars and smashing windows - that is looking out for and helping the working man. Go socialists!

rufus1133:

"This is not a game. If you have nothing to add to the debate, leave the debate."

This was after a rant about treason, after which I replied that rufus1133 should define treason if he wanted to discuss it. Apparently he did not want to discuss it, he just bounced on to the next rant.

RUFUS1133, who might or might not be the same person then goes on the next illogical moonbat rant. As previously explaned, treason is defined by the law, and therefore can have a different meaning in different countries. Facism is a political ideology, it means the same thing everywhere.

The firing of Imus relates to a contract between individuals. (MSNBC and Imus). The employers of those other persons are free to do what they please with respect to the persons they contract with, within some limits which are defined by law. If you have evidence that Imus was improperly fired, send it to Imus. If you have evidence that Rush shouldnt be on the radio, send it to the radio station. If you dont have evidence, try shutting up.

Since the patriot act for the most part did little other than apply some law that ALREADY EXISTED and was applied to mobsters and drug dealers and extended its application to terrorists, I have no problem with the patriot act. Some minor things around the edges of the patriot act are being litigated.

Again, "psuedo-science" from a moonbat. The law is precisely defined. Its all in writing. If you think something in the law violates the Constitution, you can sue. Instead of ranting about rights, tell it to a judge, and see how far you get.

If you would actually look up the meaning of treason as defined in the law, and you think someone has committed an act of treason, what you should do is call the FBI. They have the authority to investigate. Try THINKING rather than ranting.

Sure, Democrats can learn from the comparison. Segolene is a human being. Ms. Clinton is a lethal opportunist and power-craver who belongs in jail. Democrats should observe that the best way to elect a Republican President is to nominate Hillary Clinton. Which sex is a marginal considertion; personal character is not.

I say facsism is facsism. Just because the Nazi's version of Facsism is differant form George Bush's, doesn't mean the right are not facsist's

J. Leopold,
I think you're right that the 47% she garnered does support the fact that socialism is not dead and that her gender was not an overwhelming issue. I still think its fascinating since socialism is the CAUSE of high unemployment and, to some extent, globalization problems in France. But i guess despite all the French workers guarateed vacation, they don't spend that time thinking about that.

yOU TELL ME rAZOR.

"Can something be facism in one country and not in another? "

How about treason. Can you have treason in one country and not another? To that point, what about Don Imus? Should Imus be fired and Rush/Hannity/O'Reilly/Coulter still be on the air.

You ask if fascism can be in one country but not another. It is in the PERSEPTION. The problem is, the conservative movement cannot see what it has become. Doublethink and Newspeack cloads you from seeing what is right in your face. If a democrat tried to take your rights, the patriot act, you would be up in arms. Look at what. REALITY IS NOT NOT WHA TIS IN RUSH' HEAD.

J. Leopold says high unemployment was an issue in the French election. When I said that the other day, MikeB said that unemployment in France was at a 50 year low. Comic relief.

JKrish says:

"That is " I don't like. I'm going to destroy you economically." That could be considered fascism in other countries"

Facism? In other countries? Can something be facism in one country and not in another?

An economic boycott is facist? The Montomgery bus boycott started when Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat is facism? The students that staged a sit in at the lunch counter in Greensboro North Carolina were facists?

Simple locig escapes the mooonbats. Define facist, then apply it to EVERYONE who meets the definition. Simple logic, one would think.

High unemployment, globalization and racial tensions regarding the Muslim immigrants were first and foremost in the minds of the French electorate.

Mrs Royal had little substance or new ideas to offer to counter those concerns and could not get the majority to elect her.

Socialism is not dead in France but the electorate believed that her opponent was better suited to address their current concerns and since 47% voted for Mrs Royal, gender was not the prime determinant.

MikeB gets a gold medal. He wrote a post that is more than 3 sentences long that didn't contain a single material misreprestentation of fact. That is a new record for MikeB. Although there was some dubious overstated opinion in the post, there were no whoppers for me to correct. Congratulations, MikeB.

that's correct MikeB. " We can and will disagree." That goes against the right's principles. Bill O'Reilly didn't like France's position on Iraq, so he call for his slaves to boycott them, FOR FOUR YEARS. That is not civil disagreeing. That is " I don't like. I'm going to destroy you economically." That could be considered fascism in other countries

SF,

If the Embarcadero needed this so much and it will help really only SF residents (and the state some), why didn't the citizens of SF pay for it? Why ask the Federal governement in the first place to pay for it? Why should this Virginian have to? Fix up your own place.

KOZ posted "Sarkozy used his first post-victory speech to send a message...We are on your side. Our separation during the debate over the liberation of Iraq was a tragedy..."

Where do you come up with this stuff? Sarkozy never said anything even remotedly like that. What he said was, friends can disagree, even strongly, about policies. He wanted a reproachment with the U.S. without supporting the Bush-Cheney fiasco in Iraq. Don't you people know that we look these things up? It rather like this creepy Fundimentalist on television last weekend who claimed that Eve/women was literally made from Adam's rib and offered as "proof" the "fact" that women had an extra rib! Well, they don't and I find it beyond belief that there is a mob of ignorant Fundimentalists running around loose who buy this sort of nonsense and are allowed to vote...or even breed. This explains why we got Bush and Cheney; it even gives these fools a false feeling of superiority.

Stop stirring up crap then razor. don't come on here attacking people, all day, and expect people to not get angry. This is not a game. I know you are probably sitting at your computer giggling like a elementary kid. This is not a game. If you have nothing to add to the debate, leave the debate. If you don't want to talk about "what is" leave. Go to a safe place like drudge.com or rush. You might come to realize that everyone there sounds EXACTLY the same though. What fun is that? Clones, dittoheads, facsists

MikeB said:

Razorback, No. I'm the MikeB that called you a piece of inbred white trash, a thoughtless clod, a moron, a right wing parrot, and a meandering puffed up container of hot air, taking up valuable space on an already overcrowded planet, a worthless chunk of protoplasm, a junior college dropout...

Then "|" said:

thank you mike b for saving the rest of us the trouble.

Posted by: | May 8, 2007 11:32 AM

Then "|" said:

Why do those on the right always talk like small children? 'moonbats', 'bad guys' 'Libs' -- is it just that their intellectual level was frozen at about 5 years old? seems like it... they really possess no adult behavior at all, just simple-minded memes, kindergarten insults, tantrums and whining.

Posted by: | May 8, 2007 12:50 PM

HYPOCRITES HYPOCRITES

And then you have J. Leopold who said I lacked civility and posted about topics other than the main topic, but uttered nary a peep when others committed the same offense.

Discrimination, disparate impact, selective prosecution. Nothing is more than a punch line to these left wing moonbats. They are incabable of taking a logical principle, and applying it uniformly to various circumstances. Intellectual light weight hypocrites.

As Jim Hoagland points out, Royal's big mistake was to stake her campaign on being the first women President. This distracted from being able to modernize her party. This is a mistake that Hillary will not make.

It's all about me me me me. daddy issues. Somebody put up money for me to go to a shrink. I need to work out my daddy issues :)

that's it. I've exploded my brain with this analysis. All I will be able to post for the rest of the day will be trivial nonsense. most of you will not be able to tell this from my regular posts, but there is a difference.

Royal had no business winning an election in a country the size of Frace. She was not ready for primetime. Her candidacy was a trick. Setting her up to fail. It was a false choice. The more choices the better. The less choices the worse. Less choice=monopoly

Why do I always talk like small children? 'moonbats', 'bad guys' 'Libs' -- is it just that my intellectual level was frozen at about 5 years old? seems like it... I really possess no adult behavior at all, just simple-minded memes, kindergarten insults, tantrums and whining.

But I will continue to try to project this on to anyone else who dares think a thought.

Love,
ignorant coward

PS, I need to go find some of my "original' thougths at
Kos and huff so I'll cut and paste and be right back. I love this blog.

As far as I know charges of corruption have never been levelled at Segolene Royal or "the man in her life".

The right ARE children. It's all about me me me me. daddy issues. Somebody put up money for zouk and razor to go to a shrink. They need to work out their daddy issues :)

I wish I was 'psuedo-stupid' instead of completely stupid.

Why do those on the right always talk like small children? 'moonbats', 'bad guys' 'Libs' -- is it just that their intellectual level was frozen at about 5 years old? seems like it... they really possess no adult behavior at all, just simple-minded memes, kindergarten insults, tantrums and whining.

Despite the fact that many democrats are running scared from the term "Socialist" (as well they should be), Royal (the socialist) and Clinton (the democrat) share more than just being both women. Is Hilary as left as Royal? Don't know. She can't campaign that way or she would not be taken seriously in this country at this time in our history. Would she like to be? That is a more difficult question to answer. Remember "It Takes a Village"? That says the future is not family but the larger village of teachers, pediatricians and social workers (very communal). She talks about raising children as less of a parental task than a social one. She works to nationalize heathcare and education. The Clintons did not start out centrist - they wound up there after failed attempts (Hillarycare / gays in the military) at governing too left. More appropriately, Bill wound up there. However, just because they changed tactics to the incremental approach does not mean that their goals or beliefs are different. They want government programs to solve the "big" social issues - healthcare, education, poverty, etc. If elected, would she govern centrist? Hard to say given that the pendulum is swinging slightly left in this country. She might figure this is her opportunity. Being the politically shrewed people they are, the Clintons might find that they can triagulate more to the left these days. I found it fascinating that the French elected someone "pro-American" and "capitalist" over a socialist. Maybe Royal was just not up to the task. Maybe the French have discovered that socialism is not all its cracked up to be. Maybe the US still needs that lesson and i have every confidence that Hillary would provide us that.

I'm also here to jeer at you and make kindergarten insults.

I guess my low IQ and inability to form coherent original thoughts is the reason I doesn't have a job.

Move to cuba Rufas, you will be happy there - in prison. and you get the best free health care in the world. Your agenda is now on display for all to see. Keep talking.

'how many of you rabid liberal moonbats on this site believe Bush knew about 911 before it happened and did nothing about it?'

I don't think he knows anything that goes on whatsoever. He has a very limited mind.

'psudo-scientific' from one who would know. cons shoudn't lecture on pseudo-scxience...give me a break.

Treason was a term used in the world's history. It means:

In law, treason is the crime of disloyalty to one's nation. A person who betrays the nation of their citizenship and/or reneges on an oath of loyalty and in some way willfully cooperates with an enemy, is considered to be a traitor. Oran's Dictionary of the Law (1983) defines treason as: "...[a]...citizen's actions to help a foreign government overthrow, make war against, or seriously injure the [parent nation]." In many nations, it is also often considered treason to attempt or conspire to overthrow the government, even if no foreign country is aided or involved by such an endeavour."

That is exactly what the Bush administration did. If you watch or read any news source but Fox you can decypher that. How was treason handled 100 years ago

ignorant coward, the moon bats do not want us to leave, they are too attached to our contribution to the tax base.

'Maybe we could start a country that falls for all our lies and lets us run amok with thier money. I think our time is up here in america.'

I think you're right, zouk. We don't believe in your lies anymore. I guess you should move.

'since I have nothing of substance to offer this debate'

The 'kouk' admits he has has nothing to offer. i suggest you ignore him. He's also here to jeer at you and make kindergarten insults.

I guess his low IQ and inability to form coherent original thoughts is the reason he doesn't have a job.

SF, why make us pay for it then? she must have learned this trick from Dirty Harry, the master of rezoning.

If the left can get the right to quit the sabatoge maybe WE can build something, zouk. Maybe Russia's communisim may have succeded if they wern't getting sold out by their own people, and had to fight capitailism. MAybe Cuba could build something if America didn't HINDER them. You can't sabotage then say, Look this why they failed." The right has been doing that across the globe for over 120 years. Look at Bolten being appointed to the un. A guy that hates the un is the ambassator to the un. That doesn't make sense. You don't put people in governmetn that hate the government.

Divide and conquer is the right's goal. Fear/hate intolerance are heir tools

If I'm not mistaken, Royal did not win among female voters the way she needed to. One of the biggest barriers to success in America for female politicians is the bias they face not only among men, but among other women.

Perhaps Hillary needs to do more work to shore up women in order to win.

rufus1133,

Name a person who has been charged or convicted with treason in the last 10 years.

Second, if you can do that, then name another person who has committed a similar offense yet has not been charged with treason.

If you do those 2 things, you will see how ignorant it is to always be posting about how people are going to be charged with treason.

This is typical leftist ignorance. They lecture about science, psuedo-science, rationality and evidence, then they post something ignorant like that.

Treason has a very specific meaning. It is defined in the United States Code. There is a very specific standard in the law for charging, convicting and sentencing someone for treason. To yack off about treason without understanding its specific meaning and definition is at best, psudo-scientific.

I second the first response, Mark in Austin's, "No!"

since I have nothing of substance to offer this debate, I will fixate on zouk? How did he figure out all our cheap tricks and rhetoric? Is the internet really revealing our liberal idiocy? Where can I hide from the truth?

I am so happy here with my fellow nutjobs. Maybe we could start a country that falls for all our lies and lets us run amok with thier money. I think our time is up here in america.

'Pelosi got House members to authorize $25 million to improve the Embarcadero port area, clearing the way for cruise-ship-dock development and other improvements to aid the neighborhood's comeback.'

Good for Pelosi. That neighborhood has needed help for years and has the potential to become an economic powerhouse. This is what a good representative does and we love her.

Sarkozy used his first post-victory speech to send a message to the Americans: We are on your side. Our separation during the debate over the liberation of Iraq was a tragedy.

It is clear that socialism and surrender is on the wane. bush won two elections, Merkel won, Sarkozy won. the empty ideas and talk of the left has finally emerged from the coccoon the press has harbored them in. Now that the Internet allows the truth to blossom, the tired, old leftist ideas from the 60s are clear failures and the worlwide voters know it.

i dunno; hillary kind of scares me. from the cheap seats up here north of the border, she appears to be phoney as hell, with a platform designed by feedback from focus groups.
obama, on the other hand, looks pretty good. he's either got a really believable schtick, or he's a real person with a well developed mind of his own.

From all evidence, Razorback and other users of the term moon bat appear to have an intense desire to control the dialog and impose a set of various views on contributors that are unrelated to the main topic of this forum. As such we may might chose to ignore their unrelated ideology laced ranting until their focus his brought back to the topic of Segolene and Hillary.

Zouk has to sabatoge the conversation. We can't have people on here talking truths. If so a random person, who only watches fox, would come in here and it would screw up their whole world persprective. He just trying to give the right something they know. Don' hate zouk. Show pity on him. Try and help him. His movement is done for at least ten years. So him so sympathy :)

Knew about it? Hell, Cheney planned it and told Bush about it because Bush was too stoopid to plan it.

ever notice how queen of kooks comes on here every day, at exactly the same time, then stays all day, posting every five minutes?

is queen a paid troll or a welfare queen? why isn't she in iraq, fighting the war she so fervently believes in?

You better HOPE your right zouk. If your movement is wrong, their