OBAMA IS A CROOK, the CLINTONS ARE THIEFS! stop the madness people! vote Mike Gravel

gravel08. us

OBAMA IS A CROOK, the CLINTONS ARE THIEFS! stop the madness people! vote Mike Gravel

gravel08. us

So what if Gravel is a little "weird"? At least he's being honest! You've got to know that every single one of the other candidates has some quirk or secret that they're hiding from the public--Gravel is being himself.
Give him a chance to speak; his ideas should carry just as much weight and deserve just as much airtime as the higher contenders and it's outrageous that he has been restricted from some debates, such as the ALF-CIO Forum.

Gravel '08!

It figures that the Post would berate Senator Mike Gravel without bothering to investigate what he brings to the table.

Here is what Gravel stands for.

Wholesale reorganization of the US Government from a non-representative form to a direct democracy.

Elimination of the "war economy" and "laws for sale" that DC has built up to a preposterous level.

Universal Health Care

Education of everybody instead of the elite.

Mike Gravel represents a move to Power for the MASSES, not the ELITE who control the country now.

The current US government wants to keep the people down by not educating them, pretending to execute a war on drugs, by spending all of the Social Security funds, and not providing health care.

We need complete overhaul of US gov. before it is too late. The fact that the Washington Post would disappear as a result would just be another good benefit of this change.

Gravel is the only candidate worth voting for unless you like the status quo.

Nobody else stands for anyting but what the polls tell them to say.

Hillary is a power hungry witch who remained married to a coke head that still picks up anything that will take him.

Your comments about Mike Gravel are completely ignorant. You MIGHT think that an organization like the Washington Post might research the candidates before it tries to bury them.

Gravel is THE ONLY candidate that will bring about the change that the US needs, through DIRECT DEMOCRACY INITIATIVE.

The fact that the post berates Gravel without mentioning his proposals for change, is evidence that the Post are just another bunch of Bush cronies, on the Bush payroll, part of the establishment that needs to be overrun.

I hope that when the next terrorist attach occurs in the US, which will happen as a direct result of greedy US foreign policy, that they do it in DC so we can get rid of all the white trash that currently runs this country.

Hi Rufus. I get tired of Dick Morris' Hillary bashing also, but in his defense at least he backs up his comments with facts from his own personal experience with the Clintons. I think its also interesting that he still likes Bill Clinton but obviously loathes Hillary.

I don't think that just because he's on Fox he's now part of the "right wing conspiracy". Susan Estrich is on Fox and she's a liberal democrat who thinks Hillary walks on water. They're both political consultants to the show that are paid for their opinions. At least FOX has people on from both sides of the coin.

Have you listened to CNN, ABC, NBC and CBS. If you add a "T", an "L" and buy an "I" you can spell CLINTON...

I agree with you Charlie. Bill Richardson is the only one who has any real life experience, success, and is respected abroad. Its unfortunate that his credentials are overlooked because of of the continued refusal of the press to give the other candidates a fair shake.

I don't care if the candidate is a good debater. I'm tired of the talk. How about some substance. After all these debates so far not one candidate has said a damn thing worthy of my vote.

Has it escaped everyone's attention that 24 to 48 hrs prior to a debate, a new poll comes out showing that Hillary is still the frontrunner?

The Clintons have the media in their pockets - as evidenced by the continued BS being pumped out by the likes of the Washington Post.

I guess we'll get quality candidates when we get a neutral press. Don't hold your breath folk!

"Notice that he rarely says anthing bad about Bill. No one knows the Clintons like he does! He knows every scandal that happened in the WH during the Clinton years(except the sexual ones) led right back to Hillary. And she's talking about ethics and pardons, and the law? She shouldn't use big words she does quite understand."

I hear you carol. Morris is nothing but an attack dog riding the right-wing attack machine to make a fortune. He has one job on Fox. Attack Hillary. That's it. That's what he GET'S PAID TO DO.

I would think that would lose him his credibility. Conflict of interest and all. Dick Morris is a liar and a propogandist. Not that I disagree with anything you say. I just wanted to point out what Dick Morris is. He's a sell-out. He's a traitor. He's a fair weather politcial puppet. That's all.

Where has he been (since out of office) before he came on fox attack hillary daily, and I'm not for her again. If anything I'm against the GOp and the Dick Morris's of the world.

Winning a debate is not winning the people.

Hillary is a good debater-
doesn't mean she's a good candidate.

Talk about inexperienced....if media wasn't
so distracted by her last name and her gender,
they'd be wondering what makes her think
she's qualified to be prez.

Richardson should be the front-runner. I still do not get how Obama and Clinton are so far in front. They're the most prepared to get into word tracks, but really have nothing to offer beyond that. Edwards seems genuine and I might be more inclined to support him, but 2004 has still left a bad taste in my mouth. He'd been better off not being part of the Kerry ticket.

If they had town-hall type of debates where the candidates could move away from the podium and embrace the audience I think you'd see a ground-swell of support for Richardson

I take exception to the comment on Gravel.
He has plenty to offer, but no one is
listening and unfortunately for us he did not try to run back in '76 or '80. His idea for not having a tax on income, but a tax on spending to move us towards a savings economy instead of a spend economy was right on the money. He also was the only candidate that did not take a private jet to the debate. He also mentioned to look at where the money was coming from in the "top tier" candidates and really had Obama on the ropes and cause Obama to cite legislation that is not a law, but a dead bill on the floor of the senate. Gravel is 77 and angry and I don't blame him. We owe him a lot for what he has done, more than just the few seconds he gets to respond.

In response to Rufus re: Dick Morris.
Yes he is a Fox News contributor. But my point was that he was involved with Hillary Clinton's polls regarding her Arkansas eduction reform. Too many teachers couldn't meet the standards and were in jeopardy of being fired. So they polled people asking what percentage of teachers they though wouldn't meet the criteria. The average was 10 - 15% when in fact it was nearly triple that average. But since Hillary was afraid of taking on the tearchers' unions they miraculously came up with test results that showed only 10% of failing teachers and only those were fired. Once again the woman can't do anything without a poll or a script!
So what that Dick Morris hates Hillary -
Notice that he rarely says anthing bad about Bill. No one knows the Clintons like he does! He knows every scandal that happened in the WH during the Clinton years(except the sexual ones) led right back to Hillary. And she's talking about ethics and pardons, and the law? She shouldn't use big words she does quite understand.

Not sure what debate you were watching. I saw the debate where Hillary didn't answer the question about 28 years of Clinton/Bush.

Sure, she got a laugh when she mentioned the 2000 election. Therefore, she wins the debate?

How about a candidate that answers the question asked?

So how DOES Hillary represent change? Still waiting to hear her answer...

you are all wrong!!! mike gravel brings TRUTH back into politics. he is the PEOPLE'S candidate and everyone in their hearts knows this regardless!!! people do what you can to elect this: korean war vetran, draft stopping, nucular watchdog creating TRUE AMERICAN HERO.

gravel08. us

Everything else carol is on point. Also factor in this, and I will never vote for her:

"All U.S. presidents since 1989 have been Yale graduates, namely George H. W. Bush, Bill Clinton (who attended the University's Law School along with his wife, New York Senator Hillary Clinton), and George W. Bush, and Vice President Dick Cheney, (although he did not graduate). Many of the 2004 presidential candidates attended Yale: Bush, John Kerry, Howard Dean, and Joe Lieberman.

Other Yale-educated presidents were William Howard Taft (B.A.) and Gerald Ford (LL.B). Alumni also include several Supreme Court justices, including current Justices Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito."

"Dick Morris' comments about this - and he was Bill Clinton's strategist"

He is also a Fox puppet. I haven't heard ONE good thing about Hillary from him. Not ONE. I'm not for hillary, but morris continuous barrage of attacks is a blatent as it get's in politics.

"Dick Morris' comments about this - and he was Bill Clinton's strategist"

He is also a Fox puppet. I haven't hear ONE good thing about Hillary from him. Not ONE. I'm not for hillary, but morris continuous barrage of attacks is a blatent as it get's in politics.

carol r consider yourself insulted, because a lot of women are saying that is the reason they will vote for Hillary.

In response to the criticism of Mike Gravel:

"The Fix is not in favor of limiting the number of candidates at the debates but what exactly does Gravel bring? Does he have a point of view not already represented on the stage?"

Mike Gravel is the only candidate to put some perspective on the debate and the platforms of his opponents. The other candidates are incredibly similar and too heavily funded by corporations for their own good (Especially Hillary, Edwards and yes Obama). These three in particular offer very little divergences from the accepted norm of a ignoring withering constitution and an unrepresentative corrupt government sponsored by multinational corporations who aim to screw Americans and the world in general to make a buck. Unfortunately, money equals power in Washington. If the media should decide FOR Americans that Mike Gravel is not worthy to debate and thus looses his chances for presidency, the election will be futile. It would be proof that the mass media has already decided the outcome of the election- not the people!

To believe that the mainstream democrats are very different from the mainstream republicans is false. Perhaps they are a lesser evil, but not fundamentally different.

I will vote and support Gravel because he knows how to bring America's political system and government back to what the founding fathers envisioned. He knows whats wrong with the electoral system and will strive to bring back representativity by reforming it. He knows why our education, health, and foreign policy is in the abhorrent state that it is in. Furthermore, he is able and willing to fix it. He is one of the only candidates really aimed at repairing our system to be representative, fair and to follow the guidelines of our constitution and defend them.

The others just want to use the system for their own benefit not change it to protect us from further despots like Bush and Cheney.

The don't want to end the war, or they would have already done it by making the war illegal and charging Bush with war crimes. They make money for their supporters through wars and thus get more money for their campaigns to gain more and more power. Its the sad truth.

Research Gravel online (youtube.com, Grsavel08.us, etc.) for more info on Gravel. Don't take my word on it.

To Paul the man who criticized women who don't like Hillary - here's my comments to you and all the "Hillary is an example to women" chanters.

As a young educated white career woman Hillary is not a shining example to me or any other woman I know. Continued comments about her brilliancy is a joke considering she failed the Washington D.C bar exam (never mentioned anywhere by anyone) and then left D.C. and hitched her wagon to Bill Clinton's rising by moving to Arkansas to marry him.
She was assigned the task of education reform in Arkansas - by her husband, despite not having any credentials in education - and failed miserably (read Dick Morris' comments about this - and he was Bill Clinton's strategist!).
She allowed herself to be humiliated by his continued affairs, harrassed his victims, and assigned WH Staff to "bimbo control". She's no model of women's rights in my book.
She became a partner in the Rose lawfirm after her husband cooerced his friends to throw business to the firm (we all know you can't make partner unless you bring in business).
She was put in charge of Healthcare Reform - again by her husband, despite having no healthcare credentials - and failed again.
She flaunts her "foreign policy experience" which consists of photo opps with foreign leaders. She criticized Barack Obama as being naive because he would meet with foreign foes without conditions. Apparently she's had a lapse of memory about her own prior comments about this issue and failed to recall Speaker Pelosi's recent trip to Syria!

Apparently no one thinks its odd that she (a Jr. Senator) is assigned to high exposure committess (like to Armed Services Committee)since it takes years for an ordinary senator to get on them.

And I'd like to know when being First Lady constitutes as experience for being the President. The cooks were in the WH for 8 years too, but they're not qualified for the presidency either. At least The Bush women championed literacy and Nancy Reagan had the "just say no" campagne. What did Hillary do as "co-president" [someone should have told Al Gore he could have left early].

Hillary Clinton is another example of a woman who accomplished nothing on her own except for riding a man's coattails to get what she was incapable of getting on her own merits. If her name wasn't Clinton, we wouldn't even be having this debate.

To think that women are going to vote for her just because she's a woman is an insult.

Looks like your gonna lose both ways ,Mike. When rush and fox are off the air I'm gone. You just can't win can ya mike. don't blame me. Look in the mirror. I know I didn't vote these fascists in.

"Aside from the Mexican Candidate, why have so many of our proposed Leaders to be been drafted from the deepest darkest pit of incompetance on this planet? What part of the Congress has a record low approval rating(Half of Bushies!), a track record similiar to a Train Wreck on issues they should have handled, and they would do away with the separation of powers by effectively making the Senate Majority leader the President don't most Americans understand?
Hey, I know it is the most thankless job on the planet, but surely, we could maybe hire an illegal(Vincente Fox?) to do the job better for less!

Then again, maybe we could get some H1-B visas for all of Congress! Hire some competant people! You know, Indians and Chinese!

From Austin, Mexico!-This has been the Yahoo's favorite!-RAT!-THE!

Hasta mi amigos!"

Actually "RAT," Richardson was born in LA. We gots some pretty dumb people in this blog, starting with you.

Chris is far from alone in not figuring out what seemed obvious to a few of us, that John Edwards was not criticizing Hillary Clinton's jacket, but the news media's superficiality. I suspect that even Hillary understood. Wonder why the news media representatives just can't seem to get points about them?

Hillary is so polished--and so fake. I hope people will see through her.

Clinton definitely looked rattled at times up there. Edwards seemed like the clear winner. Check the live blogs:
http://threeq.blogspot.com

Clinton definitely looked rattled at times up there. Edwards seemed like the clear winner. Check the live blogs:
http://threeq.blogspot.com

Mr Jacks I agree with you; I'm not surprised but disappointed. Many 'talking heads' from around the Country gave Joe Biden credit for his straightshooting and his answers on questions like Darfur and the troops. The media, i.e. this paper, seems to be trying to tell us who the frontrunners are. No wonder it's so hard for others to raise money....

Some comments on non-issues that commentors/pundits and candidates are using to rag on certain candidates.

I approve of Richardson's six months and out plan and do not believe it is unrealistic at all. Come on, it took us SIX weeks to get in! The country is NOT that large. We have after all a mobile army (thank you Mr. Rumsfeld) and can drive across the border to a friendly Arab State and then fly back at our leisure. Biden's comments make him sound like he is smart, and were effective at making him sound more thoughtful about the process than Richardson, but the core of it is not true. We can get out as quick as we get in if we truly want. Of course there will be total chaos, but then that is what is happening now.

On the comments that Obama is naieve cause he is willing to meet with some of these evil world leaders. This was a nice one that Hilary used to make Obama sound naieve, but I think what Obama was trying to say was that open discussion with some of these leaders should always be left on the table. I don't think with any of these candidates if they became president, their advisors and or the pentagon would let them fall for a propoganda trap by meeting with an opposing leader. Our weak position in world diplomacy is partially a result of our pigheadedness and refusal to talk to other nations. And that waiting a year crap before opening direct leader to leader negotiations that Clinton said is exactly what you do not do, take something off the table publicly. In diplomacy you leave your options open. Even if you do wait a year and send envoys instead!!!!!!

Although I admire Senator Clinton on many issues, this comment only cements my suspicion that she can be bullheaded at times. I am for Richardson.

Colin -- I can definitely see your point, but it's just not enough for me. We're a free society, and we're free to make our own investment decisions.

If my pension fund were invested heavily (and I would venture to guess that few, if any, are more than 3% in any ONE thing) in a hedge fund, I'd do something about it.

That's just the conservative in me believing that more government isn't the answer to an issue like this.

http://conservativestandards.blogspot.com

I totally concur on Gravel. This guy just comes off as unstable. He exists solely to tear down the other (plausible) candidates. (Is he really "frightened" by Hillary, Obama and Edwards, as he said at a previous debate?) And his ideas....? A national sales tax replacing the income tax? That's Alan Keyes, a Republican, talking.

He's so out there and angry that I can't even believe he's serious about most of the stuff he says. It's just a vanity trip for him. Kucinich and Ron Paul come across as sincere. Gravel's just putting on an act, and he's wasting our time.

Chris concedes that his views are very subjective, and that the difference between the best and worst debaters was minimal. So why leave out Senator Obama - who's one of the top two candidates based on any metric??? Instead, he gives tons of attention to a completely insignificant third tier candidate. Why not just comment about each of the candidates, instead of arbitrarily excluding one of the top two??? Chris, you are as pro-Clinton as the NY Times, Hillary's hometown newspaper.

Mark -- you can absolutely substitute me for a reliable 'D' vote in the presidential race.

Mike -- I've always though the "they're rich so lets not worry about them" argument was sort of strange, especially since most of the regulations I'm advocating for only require enhanced disclosures. Regardless though, I think the number of institutional investors out there - including pension funds - probably provides the most compelling argument in favor of increased regulation in the field.

Rufus -- exposed for the ignoramous you are. Bigger fish to fry? Haha, I love it.

You make me smile Rufus. I'm glad you're around. Don't stop posting.

I thought the night's biggest revelation was this: following the debate, most, if not all, of the so-called CNN analysts anointed Hillary the winner ... and then came the focus group of ordinary folk saying, no, Barack won. It shows the disconnect between the beltway and the rest of America. Where the beltway sees ""naivete," the rest of us see "idealistic" - never a bad trait to have in a president (see: Ronald Reagan; JFK; FDR).

As far as the controversy over Obama's willingness to meet w/the leaders of rogue nations - to fear being used for "propaganda purposes" is to fear, period.

Thanks for your thoughts as always Chris, although its clear many on the blog don't agree with you.

Hillary is very scripted, but she's also very polished. She seems to spout the same old stuff, but she knows that's what gets people elected. She's running an excellent campaign, and thats to be respected even if you don't agree. Its interesting that she's triangulating already!

Obama had an ok night, he is improving. But I think his dictators comment did show a bit of inexperience. People are willing him on because he has such a fresh viewpoint, and is very different to the establishment. But that difference may be his undoing.

Edwards had a great night. His comment about the jacket was obviously a joke, although the media seems to be trying to make it a gaffe. He's desparately trying to keep himself in the top tier. However the media's obsession with Clinton/Obama is working against him (and Richardson).

Richardson is improving, but needs to do more to broach the first tier. He did better last night to tout his resume, but as has been said earlier, some of the best questions for him were not directed at him.

Gravel is the Ron Paul of the Dems, but unlike RP he isn't gaining any traction whatsoever. I think Kucinich does the job adequately. Don't need Gravel out there.

Just had to get that off my chest...

Erkster46 -- I couldn't have said it better. Bill Richardson knows where it's at. Ms. Clinton is phony, sugar-coats ideas, and avoids direct answers to questions. Mr. Obama (I like this kid) is barely wet behind the ears. Mr. Edwards is a feel-sorry-for-me, 1-issue man. Mr. Kucinich is off-the-wall. Etc.

Bill Richardson is an experienced executive, legislator, diplomat, Nobel Peace Prize nominee, UN ambassador, clean energy crusader, education enthusiast,...shall I continue or can you envision what this gentleman has to offer to all Americans, indeed, to the global community, as President of the United States?

I was very relieved to discover there was 1, but only 1, truly qualified person to be US Pres. He deserves your support, and the interest of the media to follow his campaign.

"Any substance to the claim that there is some VRWC to supress minority voters has long since vanished since the 1960's..."

...problem is, the VRWS I suspect is still vast and still ideologically digressive started back with a fellow named Metternich, and everything since then is a cosmic redux.

The seeds of royal fascism that were born in those dark times have come to fruition in something "they" call "The New World Order." And this administration has come to personify that vain delusion. And their delusion took us into a loser'swar.

To promote their futile venture, they have bent the very foundations of our laws, and joined with faux-mainstream religious and fiction cults, to promote a profane union of "church" and state, all in the name of no-bid, faithbased "profits."

In some ways, this conspiracy is not a manifestation of the modern era, it is the final act of a pernicious, power-hungry beast, a politically-endangered-species, that holds its its power more dearly than The People from whom that power is derived.

But in essence, it is a conspiracy of greed, and on so many levels, their agreement has been simply in their single motivating need; MORE WEALTH!!

The well being of the entire world is just a playing card in their game of death and war. And we are their military-industial-strength ATM.

Hillary Clinton will be our next President and then I will able to get a good nights sleep, for a change. When George Bush leaves the White House, I hope never to see or hear from him again. He should be ashamed for what he's done to our country and the world. The Democrats need to get their act together and bring Americans together...not divide the country further. Mr. Obama needs some experience before he even thinks of running for President..he is clueless...a few people telling him he has what it takes isn't going to get the job done. You have to walk before you can run. Oh, and I've watched Mr. Richardson too many times on Meet the Press not to understand what he's about. He is for legitimizing all 20 million illegal aliens in this country and further corrupting our economy. He's a problem, not any part of a solution.

updated list for anyone that cares. I'll start on that tomorrow. Good luck gop. YOu have a year. use it wisely

http://www.newshounds.us/2007/07/24/advertisers_on_the_oreilly_factor_update_707.php

that's no the way us "liberals" think. You can't put up garbage and expext anyone to resond. That is how I know I'm preaching truth, and have you gop'ers scared. If I was talking truth you/zouk/the old man would spend your entire lives worrying about me. I know I'm on the right track. I'lll continue to posts truths when I fell like it. YOu can contiinue to lay up in bed scared of truth. THAT IS YOUR FREEDOM. Mine is ignoring moronic agruments and complaint's like your's. Why hasn't anyone addressed your statements? You give yourself to much credibility. You think anybody here doesn't know your a hatful lying propogandist. Why waste my time. Your party is done in a year anyway. You remind me of a fish out of water taking his last breath. It's funny to me to watch you gop'ers wriggle in fear. FEAR DOESN"T exist. you fascsits are done in america. I say it was 60 years late, but hey. Beggers can't be choosers, right?

1. Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy

After we were hit on September 11 2001, we were in a state of national shock. Less than six weeks later, on October 26 2001, the USA Patriot Act was passed by a Congress that had little chance to debate it; many said that they scarcely had time to read it. We were told we were now on a "war footing"; we were in a "global war" against a "global caliphate" intending to "wipe out civilisation". There have been other times of crisis in which the US accepted limits on civil liberties, such as during the civil war, when Lincoln declared martial law, and the second world war, when thousands of Japanese-American citizens were interned. But this situation, as Bruce Fein of the American Freedom Agenda notes, is unprecedented: all our other wars had an endpoint, so the pendulum was able to swing back toward freedom; this war is defined as open-ended in time and without national boundaries in space - the globe itself is the battlefield. "This time," Fein says, "there will be no defined end."

2. Create a gulag

Once you have got everyone scared, the next step is to create a prison system outside the rule of law (as Bush put it, he wanted the American detention centre at Guantánamo Bay to be situated in legal "outer space") - where torture takes place.

3. Develop a thug caste

When leaders who seek what I call a "fascist shift" want to close down an open society, they send paramilitary groups of scary young men out to terrorise citizens. The Blackshirts roamed the Italian countryside beating up communists; the Brownshirts staged violent rallies throughout Germany. This paramilitary force is especially important in a democracy: you need citizens to fear thug violence and so you need thugs who are free from prosecution.

4. Set up an internal surveillance system

In Mussolini's Italy, in Nazi Germany, in communist East Germany, in communist China - in every closed society - secret police spy on ordinary people and encourage neighbours to spy on neighbours. The Stasi needed to keep only a minority of East Germans under surveillance to convince a majority that they themselves were being watched.

5. Harass citizens' groups

The fifth thing you do is related to step four - you infiltrate and harass citizens' groups. It can be trivial: a church in Pasadena, whose minister preached that Jesus was in favour of peace, found itself being investigated by the Internal Revenue Service, while churches that got Republicans out to vote, which is equally illegal under US tax law, have been left alone.

6. Engage in arbitrary detention and release

This scares people. It is a kind of cat-and-mouse game. Nicholas D Kristof and Sheryl WuDunn, the investigative reporters who wrote China Wakes: the Struggle for the Soul of a Rising Power, describe pro-democracy activists in China, such as Wei Jingsheng, being arrested and released many times. In a closing or closed society there is a "list" of dissidents and opposition leaders: you are targeted in this way once you are on the list, and it is hard to get off the list.

7. Target key individuals

Threaten civil servants, artists and academics with job loss if they don't toe the line. Mussolini went after the rectors of state universities who did not conform to the fascist line; so did Joseph Goebbels, who purged academics who were not pro-Nazi; so did Chile's Augusto Pinochet; so does the Chinese communist Politburo in punishing pro-democracy students and professors.

8. Control the press

Italy in the 1920s, Germany in the 30s, East Germany in the 50s, Czechoslovakia in the 60s, the Latin American dictatorships in the 70s, China in the 80s and 90s - all dictatorships and would-be dictators target newspapers and journalists. They threaten and harass them in more open societies that they are seeking to close, and they arrest them and worse in societies that have been closed already.

9. Dissent equals treason

Cast dissent as "treason" and criticism as "espionage'. Every closing society does this, just as it elaborates laws that increasingly criminalise certain kinds of speech and expand the definition of "spy" and "traitor". When Bill Keller, the publisher of the New York Times, ran the Lichtblau/Risen stories, Bush called the Times' leaking of classified information "disgraceful", while Republicans in Congress called for Keller to be charged with treason, and rightwing commentators and news outlets kept up the "treason" drumbeat. Some commentators, as Conason noted, reminded readers smugly that one penalty for violating the Espionage Act is execution.
9. Dissent equals treason

Cast dissent as "treason" and criticism as "espionage'. Every closing society does this, just as it elaborates laws that increasingly criminalise certain kinds of speech and expand the definition of "spy" and "traitor". When Bill Keller, the publisher of the New York Times, ran the Lichtblau/Risen stories, Bush called the Times' leaking of classified information "disgraceful", while Republicans in Congress called for Keller to be charged with treason, and rightwing commentators and news outlets kept up the "treason" drumbeat. Some commentators, as Conason noted, reminded readers smugly that one penalty for violating the Espionage Act is execution.

10. Suspend the rule of law

The John Warner Defense Authorization Act of 2007 gave the president new powers over the national guard. This means that in a national emergency - which the president now has enhanced powers to declare - he can send Michigan's militia to enforce a state of emergency that he has declared in Oregon, over the objections of the state's governor and its citizens.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2064157,00.html

You cannot win mike. It is impossible to win combatting truth with lies and propoganda. That only works until the people are aware of what your doing. That window has opened and closed. Now your party is done for a generation

bsimon - I believe that your state has a strong historic record of fair elections.

Unfortunately, many states have a strong history of vote tampering of every possible kind. When LBJ beat Coke Stevenson for the Senate in '48[?], both sides stuffed so many boxes that the Texas Supreme Court refused to rule for a rerun, saying, in effect, "a pox on both your houses".

And Louisiana balloting history is colorful, compared to Texas. I think that vigilance is still called for, but in fact may have the desired prophylactic effect, because, as you say, instances of provable fraud have become rare, indeed.

JimD, can you cite me to the consent decree? Was that for the Jacksonville vote in '00?

Rufus -- You are a coward.

You are blatantly ignorant. And you refuse to admit it.

Instead, you flood the posts with your nonsense again and again.

RUFUS IS IGNORANT.

RUFUS BELIEVES ALL DEMOCRATS ADVOCATE THE FOLLOWING:

-DESTRUCTION OF JEWS AND ISRAEL
-MURDER OF POLITICAL OPPONENTS
-DEATH OF AMERICAN TROOPS

I'm surprised no Democrats on this thread are disagreeing with these claims.

We Tried... that was the funniest thing I've read in a long time.

Bill Richardson, though not great in the debate scenario, is the most QUALIFIED candidate in the race. Without fail he has come up with solid answers and strategies adressing the War in Iraq (which had nothing to do with terrorism.)
Ever read his energy policy? His withdrawal policy? His immigration policy?
Perhaps you should. He has REAL-WORLD foriegn diplomacy experience, REAL-WORLD energy experience, REAL-WORLD immigration experience, and has served his nation honorably and with dignity. Not along PARTY lines.He is, I believe, the one true hope for our country to regain some Dignity, Honesty, and Integrity.

Bill Richardson, though not great in the debate scenario, is the most QUALIFIED candidate in the race. Without fail he has come up with solid answers and strategies adressing the War in Iraq (which had nothing to do with terrorism.)
Ever read his energy policy? His withdrawal policy? His immigration policy?
Perhaps you should. He has REAL-WORLD foriegn diplomacy experience, REAL-WORLD energy experience, REAL-WORLD immigration experience, and has served his nation honorably and with dignity. Not along PARTY lines.He is, I believe, the one true hope for our country to regain some Dignity, Honesty, and Integrity.

A single post at a time would be nice too!

Rufuses: Only one of you at a time, please!

Anybody out there want me off this site. Here's your chance.

Go to www.crooksandliars.com

or

http://skinthefox.com/sponsors_001.htm

There is a list of sponsers of Fox news (some are old and no longer sponser.)

Last night Bill O Told his veiwers to go after the sponsers of people of business if they don't like what they are saying. As if any business (other than fox) is compleately rep or dem. As if a company is supposed to do rep lipmus test to hire only repubs. As if in said companies they sit around and talk only repub or dem issues. So people are saying "I have a probelm with Fox. Let's go after their advertisers."

Here is a list of fox advertisers. If willing call or email them in droves and tell them that rather than their advertising dollars going to grow their business. O'REilly is telling anybody who disagree's with fox or him to boycott the advertisers. Practice what you preach GOP.
Email or call and tell them their dollars to fox are not helping but hurting them publically. Imus applied to Fox.

Those that don't give two shi-- about this country ignore this post. Those that do stop hiding your heads in the sand and get these people off the air.

Those that want me off the air, help me get fox off and you got your wish. Otherwise, shut your mouths or fingers in this case. Put up or shut. Practice what you preach. Or put your money where O'reilly's mouth is.

Anybody out there want me off this site. Here's your chance.

Go to www.crooksandliars.com

or

http://skinthefox.com/sponsors_001.htm

There is a list of sponsers of Fox news (some are old and no longer sponser.)

Last night Bill O Told his veiwers to go after the sponsers of people of business if they don't like what they are saying. As if any business (other than fox) is compleately rep or dem. As if a company is supposed to do rep lipmus test to hire only repubs. As if in said companies they sit around and talk only repub or dem issues. So people are saying "I have a probelm with Fox. Let's go after their advertisers."

Here is a list of fox advertisers. If willing call or email them in droves and tell them that rather than their advertising dollars going to grow their business. O'REilly is telling anybody who disagree's with fox or him to boycott the advertisers. Practice what you preach GOP.
Email or call and tell them their dollars to fox are not helping but hurting them publically. Imus applied to Fox.

Those that don't give two shi-- about this country ignore this post. Those that do stop hiding your heads in the sand and get these people off the air.

Those that want me off the air, help me get fox off and you got your wish. Otherwise, shut your mouths or fingers in this case. Put up or shut. Practice what you preach. Or put your money where O'reilly's mouth is.

Anybody out there want me off this site. Here's your chance.

Go to www.crooksandliars.com

or

http://skinthefox.com/sponsors_001.htm

There is a list of sponsers of Fox news (some are old and no longer sponser.)

Last night Bill O Told his veiwers to go after the sponsers of people of business if they don't like what they are saying. As if any business (other than fox) is compleately rep or dem. As if a company is supposed to do rep lipmus test to hire only repubs. As if in said companies they sit around and talk only repub or dem issues. So people are saying "I have a probelm with Fox. Let's go after their advertisers."

Here is a list of fox advertisers. If willing call or email them in droves and tell them that rather than their advertising dollars going to grow their business. O'REilly is telling anybody who disagree's with fox or him to boycott the advertisers. Practice what you preach GOP.
Email or call and tell them their dollars to fox are not helping but hurting them publically. Imus applied to Fox.

Those that don't give two shi-- about this country ignore this post. Those that do stop hiding your heads in the sand and get these people off the air.

Those that want me off the air, help me get fox off and you got your wish. Otherwise, shut your mouths or fingers in this case. Put up or shut. Practice what you preach. Or put your money where O'reilly's mouth is.

wHY YOU WANNA BE LIKE ME. yOU CAN'T. wHEN YOU try YOU LOOK LIKE A FOOL ZOUK. gO PLAY WITH YOUR TEDDY RUPSKIN OR SOMETHING. Have him read you a story. Your used to taking orders and told stories. Continue at your own perile. You got one more.

You better try and figure out how to fix the destruction of this great country both overseas and domestically. Not cool wasting time attacking that which doesn't matter. I know. That's what lohan/paris/Rosie O'donnel/ann nicole/alec baldwin and whoever your "NEWS" decides to talk about today. Mike vick.

You people are a lost cause. It's ok you have a year. And you have one more post zouk before unleashing an onslaught. If you want it go ahead. Others can blame zoukie for the aftermath :)

"This word game is getting all too transparent."

From the masters of etemology:
choice = kill an infant
redeploy = humiliation and surrender
is = was
s*x = not what he did
green = taxes
SS = taxes
Vote D = taxes
taxes = something the rich pay to the rest of us freeloaders
carbon offsets = rip off pyramid scheme, much like social security
support the troops = want them in the private sector
strong defense = hide in the celler
liberal = progressive
government = best way to run anything
profit = evil gop idea
health care = power
the Poor = suckers who vote for us if we bribe them

and so on....

proudtobeGOP writes
"Any substance to the claim that there is some VRWC to supress minority voters has long since vanished since the 1960's."

Well, except that its a perennial issue for the GOP, for no apparent reason. As has been noted multiple times above, what little voter fraud does happen doesn't appear to be impact the outcome of elections. Perhaps there is not 'proof' of said VRWC, but there is certainly anecdotal evidence that implies their concerns about election fraud are driven by an intention to suppress minority votes, rather than to solve a real, widespread problem.

In the end the question becomes - if the goal is to ensure the integrity of elections - is it better to squelch all voter fraud - even if such efforts discourage legitimate voters from voting, or is it better to encourage all eligible voters to take part in the process, even if a few folks end up voting illegally?

There is a parallel in our judicial system. Our system is designed to minimize the chances that people are incarcerated incorrectly. The standard for guilt is 'beyond reasonable doubt' and 'innocent until proven guilty.' Generally, the greater social good is seen as occasionally letting the guilty go free, vs incarcerating the innocent.

Loudoun, I apologize for having offended you by suggesting that your ultimate vote was predictable. I, of course, do not know how you will vote, nor do I know how Cassandra, Mike, or proud will vote.
I welcome their tuition as well.

So that you understand why a simpleton lawyer in Texas like me could have erred, it came from my having read phrases from you like

"... contard-dominated GOP..."

that seemed weighted with, oh, a certain level of contempt for that entire one-third of the country who register as Rs.

Now I am led to understand that you were merely exaggerating to make a point, and that you are open to many views.

Colin, may I please substitute you for LV in my example of persons whose ultimate vote in the Presidential election will be predictably D?

proud,

I never said there was a vast right wing conspiracy. What has been DOCUMENTED is alleged ballot security measures instituted by various Republican organizations that have the end result of suppressing or intimidating minority voters. As I said before, why would these organizations sign consent decrees to stop some of these practices? It is DOCUMENTED that thousands of minority voters were erroneously removed from the rolls in Florida in a supposed felon purge. It is DOCUMENTED that various state Republican organizations have repeatedly challenged minority voters in various precincts to produce identification beyond what the local jurisdiction required.

I am not defending Richardson's overall positions, I was origianlly interested in him based on his resume and foreign affairs experience. I believe he is taking a position on Iraq that he knows is foolish to court the leftists in the primaries.

"Chavez may have been democratically elected but he is busy trying to undermine any restraints on presidential power. He is purging the civil service to keep only loyalists. He is turning the media into cheerleaders. He has stacked the judiciary with followers who rubber stamp his moves that seem at odds with the Venezuelan constitution."

Boy, did this bring out a feeling of deja vu! Sure sounds like someone sitting in the white house right now!

Rufus -- You are (still) ignorant (see above).

This word game is getting all too transparent.

First, the R's established "voter suppression" as the new definition of "ballot security", emphasizing non-existent voter-fraud as the "primary" culprit.

Then when the Democrats refuse to support "voter suppression" legislation, the R's turn around and claim Dems do not favor "voter security," and perpetuated that subtle word-deception even after they lost power. And now that the Dems have begun to restore the REAL meaning of the term "voter security" the R's are still using the reference from before, as if the meaning doesn't really matter, only the framing.

DUH!!

It's the framing shell-game, but it has been repeated so many times, there aren't any suckers left, just hucksters.

And now they are just fooling each other.

YOU GOT NOTHING ZOUK. NOTHING

HAHAHAHHA Great day:)

Pink shirt buddy. Pink shirt :)

"Twice-baked bushisms.. now there's a new phrase that says a lot in a few words... "

Leave it to JEP to marvel at his own genius and wordsmithing. I would posit that you are the only one impressed, for obvious reasons. Thomas Payne you are NOT. More like Pee Wee Herman.

JimD- Any substance to the claim that there is some VRWC to supress minority voters has long since vanished since the 1960's. The sound of Richardson invoking such a divisive charge and gross generalization in 2007 strikes me as pandering and desperation on his part to continue to flog that dead horse for his minority constituents.

Heck, this is a guy who wants to give every illegal immigrant full healthcare coverage paid for by US taxpayers. Of course he wants their vote too.

He wins the prize for "fastest surrender in Iraq". He may now be farther to the left than Kucinich, I'm not sure.

proudtobeGOP writes
"Democrats are uninterested in preventing voter fraud, something that has been well documented too."

Can you provide such documentation? My understanding is that voter fraud happens, but very infrequently. Again, my understanding is that voter fraud is typically a problem on a one by one basis, not some kind of widespred conspiracy that impacts the outcomes of elections. For instance, the alleged fraud that former US atty Iglesias chose not to prosecute was perpetrated by a volunteer with a get-out-the-vote effort; her efforts were apparently to maximize her own pay by adding false and/or invalid registrations to the legitimate ones she collected. Some tried to blame her employer for widespread voter fraud and or conspiracy to commit such, but following investigation, the DOJ found no such effort existed.

"ballot security"

Don't let this term get doublespoken, it should mean "election integrity," not "voter ID" and there's not a more important Orwellian twist we should be more vigilant about.

The Schlotzman-era politicization at the DOJ's voter rights division hinged upon a pernicious application of those very words.

Get a life. tough guy. Any independant think can see for themselves what you people are about. Attack spin discredit. You cannot win an debate that way. Only works with chuckling dittoheads who are like you. you are a joke gop. You have less than a year. The gop WILL be voted out. Then who will protect your lying propogating fascist avatars? You have a short time. Better use it fixing the destruction you cause rather than elementary school kids tricks. Any independant thinkers are laughing at you zouk. You are a joke

But the gulf between rich and poor is fixed, and while the American Dream should afford anyone willing to wark, access to that wealth, it is very hard to cross over from that side to "this one."

Wrong, studies show that 20% of the super rich are not in ten years and 80% of the super poor are not in ten years. the chanting and lies is never in accordance with the facts in JEP's world.

Democrats are uninterested in preventing voter fraud

how would they win otherwise???

Janet points out a good point - there was a two part question that Cooper just ignored asked by the veteran. (Cooper had the single worst performance of anyone on that stage - Katrina in Armani and the now leading the morons at CNN trying to make this into a two person race.)

Biden is the only person with a son who could be deployed to Iraq. That should have been pointed out. As an OIF vet, the notion that this has been a shared sacrifice in this nation is as much a fallacy as was WMD or 'the last throws'. All the rest of the politicians give the standard BS of 'honoring our service and sacrifice' that seems all to disingenuous. Particularly when you ask if any of them employ a veteran of a foreign war on their staff (my senator, Obama, who sits on the VA subcommittee does NOT) or exactly HOW they support vets.

I hate conspiracy theories, (mostly because we overestimate the intelligence of people like Wolf Blitzer and that pretty boy Cooper), but the media seems intent on ignoring such qualified candidates as Biden/Richardson/Dodd in favor of their own lame 'analysis'. Since when did they become central to any story.

Thank you Janet for pointing out that Biden was never given an opportunity to point out he has much more at stake in this debate, (his SON), than his political future.

JEP - long time. your particular brand of nincompoop was quite unique for some time, but lately you have been replaced by a more virulent and aggressive strain of idiocy - the ignorant kos koward and his dingbat disciple rufas.

anyway welcome back

WHAT WILL THEY DO WITHOUT THEIR AVATARS?:)

Hopefully, they will all finally speak for themselves.

it is yet to be decided, whether their posts and perspectives get more or less intelligent.

I would hope, without that pernicious influence of the wingnut talkers, these folks will clear up a bit and start proposing logical and meaningful dialogue, instead of twice-baked Bushisms.

Twice-baked bushisms.. now there's a new phrase that says a lot in a few words...

Says even more than half-baked.

proud,

I know the Dems are not clean on this. They favor very loose voter registration and certification measures. But, the studies also say that voter fraud is extremely rare. There have been "ballot security" efforts of dubious legality and many minority voters feel intimidated. One can argue about how reasonable that feeling is. My point was responding to your saying Richardson told an outrageous lie. There is some substance to the claim and I felt that your assertion should not go unchallenged. I might have been able to support Richardson if he hadn't taken such a ridiculous stand on Iraq.

Mike writes, about hedge funds
"The minimum investment on most of these funds is 1,000,000. And you can't withdrawal for sometimes months or years.

The thinking is, these guys are rich, so if they don't bother understanding the risk they're taking, who cares if they lose their money.

Why do you want to protect them?"


Perhaps one good reason to enforce better disclosure from hedge funds is because pension funds are heavy investors in hedge funds. On the other hand, maybe the overseers of these pension funds should pay closer attention to the investments the pension guys pick.

For me its not hedge funds that are the problem, but mortgage brokers. They should be required to accept fiduciary responsibility for their clients' best interests. They're currently held to zero accountability. Ironically, of course, the mortgage brokers are managing to screw both the borrowers and the investors. They're selling obscenely expensive ARMs to unsophisticated borrowers, accepting those borrowers' lies about their own fiscal assets - then turning around and selling the bogus loans to hedge funds on false premises. Its a beautiful racket, really, if you overlook the ethics.

One thing "rich" folks don't get, is that commoners don't begrudge a common man finding wealth, then speaking from a common man's point of view.

He's been there.

But when a child of privelege tries to speak ffom a common perspective, they simply can not, it's like the old song "you gotta pay your dues if you wanna sing the blues," a lifetime of privilege just takes you out of any common fraternity, ad unless you hit the skids and literally lose it all (it happens) you will never know what that common person knows, or undersand what they have experienced.

Sorry, it isn't that "we commoners" have tried to create an exclusive enclave that rich folks can't enter, it is a construct of their own doing (and undoing.)

But the gulf between rich and poor is fixed, and while the American Dream should afford anyone willing to wark, access to that wealth, it is very hard to cross over from that side to "this one."

And when that happend, the rare ones who survive usually don't pretend to speak for the real people they met on the way back up.

CC is a propogandist for hildog. He fears the change Obama would bring. Go Obama Gore 08

JimD- The "academic research paper" you cited also states in conclusion that Democrats have a long history of opposing legitimate ballot security efforts and that Democrats are uninterested in preventing voter fraud, something that has been well documented too.

word is born JEP. I call them the GOP avatars. Bush/Rush limbaugh/sean hannity/rove/Oreilly.

I ask them daily. What will you do without your avatars? how will you think for yourselves? How will you survive?

It's good. Picture a world with no "dittoheads'. Imagine if everyone thought for themselves instead of like zouk/mike/proudgop(old man)/ parroting what they hear all day. The avatars don't have long, less than a year. WHAT WILL THEY DO WITHOUT THEIR AVATARS?:)

One more vote for Obama here. He should have been named as one of the winners in this article wether the author was a fan of his or not.

Another Bush failure:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/21/AR2007072101275.html

"Yoo's only real principle, his only True Conviction, is that the Leader is Good and Right."

He's a power addict. And the first step to recovery from any addiction is to admit a higher power.

Maybe that applies to neocon cultists, too. The first step to their recovery is to admit there's a higher power than Bush.

Except that they've already labeled it a "gd piece of paper."

FGEDERALIST SOCIETY, INDEED!

Bunch of raging monopolist fascists...

"Nothing happened on 9/11 that changed anything in the Lib world. We still don't get that there is a war on, escept the war on bush, of course."

the war on terror and the war on bush are the same. Nothing happened on 9/11? If you say so. You know what I think. Bush's freinds the saudi's and all. What will you say when the truth comes out, more so than it already has. How will you look your children in their eyes knowing you sold the country out and murdered millions for $$$$$$$$$$$

Colin -- I partially agree with your thoughts. Perhaps there should be more disclosure.

However, I thought you Dem types hate rich people.

The minimum investment on most of these funds is 1,000,000. And you can't withdrawal for sometimes months or years.

The thinking is, these guys are rich, so if they don't bother understanding the risk they're taking, who cares if they lose their money.

Why do you want to protect them?

I personally don't think these rich guys want or need a safety net. Besides, the kinds of transactions that the fund managers are able to do wouldn't exist if they were bound by normal mutual fund rules.

As far as the funds blowing up in the future -- that may be the only concern that would compel me to support legislation. Have you ever heard of LTCM (Long-Term-Capital-Management)? There's a wonderful, short read about it called "When Genius Failed".

:)

You got a problem? Take your ball and go home. You like to attack GOP. What you can't take it. Just like elementary school kids. No wonder "you think you smarter than a fifth grader" keeps you on your toes.HAHAHA

You want to run with the big dogs you gotta get off the porch :)

Stop whining. You got anything else FROMT HIS DECADE. Crying about clinton is so 90's. Whiners. you want me off stop the hypocricy. You want me off get rush/hannity/oreill/fox off the air. Until then keep crying. I saw Bohner crying in his pink shirt. Everytime zouk/mike cries it reminds me of that funny scene :).

That's for that zouk. You crying put a smile on my face

proud - we believe anything we choose. but only if it looks bad for bush. otherwise we tune out.

I am still trying to use my Kos/Huff/Nation/moveon/Salon stuff to make a point from yesterday. It is not because I am an unthinking twit, which I am, it is because greenwald hasn't written anything new today.

Nothing happened on 9/11 that changed anything in the Lib world. We still don't get that there is a war on, escept the war on bush, of course.

Ignorant Kos koward aka greenwald

I'll try to find something from today to cut and paste here. Be right back.

LOL the civil rights division of the Dept. of Justice found no credible evidence.

Just to be clear, folks, that would be the Bush Dept. of Justice.

And the US Commission on Civil Rights, now controlled by four Bush appointees, including the hack Kirsanow? The Commission is a joke.

Nice try, proud!

did anyone notice that Biden called out the surrender -cowards on not voting to support a pay raise for the troops, on providing v-shaped undercarriages for Humvees, etc.

that is not what any normal person would call "supporting the troops", unless you're a Lib.

"This is not the first time that Yoo has spouted fundamentally different "legal" views based on his political agenda. As Anonymous Liberal first noted last year, Yoo -- in 2003, before it was known that Bush was eavesdropping outside of FISA -- wrote an Op-Ed praising FISA as a constitutional and important safeguard which gave the President the eavesdropping tools he needed to fight the Terrorists while at the same time protecting our privacy.

But once it was revealed in 2005 that the President was violating FISA, Yoo suddenly reversed course, claiming that FISA was an unconstitutional infringement on the President's power and that Bush's violations of it were necessary to protect us all from being vaporized at the hands of the Terrorists. That behavior is quite similar to the right-wing fanatics who spent the 1990s vocally objecting to the "secret FISA court," whereby Bill Clinton could eavesdrop on us by getting warrants from a secret court (!), only to then defend George Bush's eavesdropping on us with no warrants or judicial oversight of any kind.

Like every good authoritarian, Yoo's only real principle, his only True Conviction, is that the Leader is Good and Right. Everything else he says is but a tool used to achieve that end, and as is true for all authoritarians -- indeed, it is one of their defining mental attributes -- there is no bar against holding fundamentally opposite views simultaneously as long as each is used to strengthen the cause and defend the Leader. John Yoo is the embodiment of the authoritarian mind."

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/

Chris, you showed your obvious dislike of Obama but not even mentioning him in your article. He was was very good last night, better than your shrew Hillary. Your are one of Hillary's hacks who are steamed that Obama stepped in the way of her plans to dominate the Democratic field. You also are a fool for not mentioning the straightforward answers of Joe Biden. Did anyone else notice how the candidates and Anderson Cooper steered away from the question of whether the candidates had anyone in their family serving in Iraq? The guestion was part of a two part question asked by the veteran who lost his father and son in military service.

"purposeful slander of Rs"

ooooh! what a bunch of meanies those Dems are...

Does anyone remember "...lets kick their soft teeth down their whiney throats!?"

So that was something to be Proud about?

Mike -- I think the Investment Advisers Act should apply to Hedge Funds and their managers, although I'd be fine with some carve-outs regarding fee structures and leverage so that Hedge Funds can continue to operate with more leeway than most registered funds. The end result would be an awful lot more transparency regarding how the funds are run and what the risks associated with such investments are.

There are an awful lot of people within the industry who think that Hedge Funds are going to blow up in the near future. Time will tell I suppose, although I definitely am skeptical that there are enough genuinely gifted people out there to match the ever increasing number of private funds...

I heard the oil companies are making a profit. we had better investigate again. the last two times they managed to hide their evil deeds.

"John Edwards is NOT a politician..."

thanks for that comment, now I know why I like him.

I didn't realize it until you mentioned it, but now that you point it out, I think that viewpoint explains why so many of us hold him in an esteem above Hillary and Barrack, who are both more qualified than any Republican to lead this country.

But they are both also trapped in a political slugfest, bound by their extended staff of Rovish pols to battle it out for political supremacy over each other.

Gephart/Dean, ca. IA primaries, 2003?

Edwards has higher priorities.

i'm ashamed. i once viewed sen. hillary clinton as a ambituous sweet talker riding on the shirt tails of her husband. after viewing the debates and her hard stand on the blunders of the bush administration along with her response to meeting with the leaders of the worlds most voltile leaders, in which she stated she would not do until certain diplomacy is established, i have to believe what a fine president this lady is going to be. "now" i wonder who will be her veep?

So since Hillary also wants to start diplomatic talks, then the "exact wording" discussion is just a minor ripple that only political junkies will care about.

Executive priv does actually apply to private conversations about the country's business. It does not apply to covering up indiscretions with interns. the clintons preverted this for all time. Just like pardons for cash, sleepovers for cash, secrets for cash, etc.

proud

Read the documentation. There are a lot of wild urban legends that cannot be proved but WHY WOULD GOP ORGANIZATIONS SIGN CONSENT DECREES IF IT IS ALL URBAN LEGEND? Are you saying those court orders did not happen? The purges of the supposed felons in Florida absolutely did erroneously remove thousands of black voters. There was a GOP congressional candidate who mailed a letter to the Latino voters telling them basically they could be arrested if they voted. IT HAPPENS.

The Republicans harp about "ballot security' to combat "voter fraud" that always seems to place obstacles in front of minority voters. Independent studies have long concluded that voter fraud is extremely rare.

Rufus -- you're ignorant. (See Above)

Re diplomacy plans:

Just a few months ago, Hillary said the same thing she is now beating up on Obama for:

Apr 22, 2007 10:12 pm US/Eastern
(CBS/AP) DECORAH, Iowa
Hillary Rodham Clinton on Sunday criticized President Bush's foreign policy, and said if she were president she would do things differently, including beginning diplomatic talks with supposed enemies and sending envoys throughout the world.

"I would begin diplomatic discussions with those countries with whom we have differences, to try to figure out what is the depth of those differences," said Clinton, who spoke to about 1,000 people at Luther College in Decorah in northeastern Iowa.

"I think it is a terrible mistake for our president to say he will not talk with bad people. You don't make peace with your friends -- you have to do the hard work of dealing with people you don't agree with," said Clinton, who is seeking the Democratic presidential nomination.

As long as it works out for the gop, right old man? The ends justify the fascist means, right

JimD - to rebut your salacious claims, here are some examples of why all of that nonsense is urban legend at best, and purposeful slander of Rs at worse...

The U.S. Commission on Civil Rights conducted a six-month investigation in 2004 of the charges that thousands of blacks were disenfranchised, harassed, and intimidated from voting and found absolutely NO evidence of systematic disenfranchisement of black voters.

The civil-rights division of the Department of Justice also found NO credible evidence that any Floridians were intentionally denied the right to vote.

If there was a conspiracy to disenfranchise Ohio voters, black or white, its execution was profoundly inept.

Ohio voter turnout increased from 4.9 million in 2000 to 5.5 million in 2004.

Estimated black-voter turnout alone rose by 25 percent.

"It would be helpful if ostensibly responsible individuals refrained from inflammatory disenfranchisement rhetoric that erodes public confidence in the electoral process." - Peter Kirsanow, a member of the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights.

These gop'ers love to point at the source. Even when repeatly line for line WHAT THEY SAY BACK TO THEM. Somehow mediamatters is a hate site because you repaet what they say back. Not sure that works. Not sure how many people are buying that. I'm betting not many

"Reports that President Clinton may invoke executive privilege to block the investigation into the Monica Lewinsky affair have elements of both. . . .

Mindful of the extraordinary step of keeping information secret in a democratic government, presidents since Nixon have been wary of resorting to executive privilege. Presidents Ford, Carter and Bush formally raised the privilege only once each, and President Reagan three times in two full terms. In less than 1 1/2 terms, Mr. Clinton has claimed executive privilege at least six times, four times before Congress and twice in court. Like the boy crying wolf, Mr. Clinton's regular use of the privilege threatens to dilute its effectiveness for future presidents on matters of true national importance . . . .

A decision to invoke executive privilege in this case would be yet another example of the Clinton administration's failure to understand the distinction between the office of the president and the person who happens to be the president. In democracies, we distinguish between a public office and the person who holds that office; people for whom the office and the person are one and the same are called kings.
"

Well, Senator Obama just lost the Florida primary when he said he would agree to meet with dictators like Venzuela's Hugo Chavez or Cuba's Fidel Castro.

With all due respect Senator Obama has a lot to learn about foreign policy and the US presidency is not a learn as you go type of job.

Well, Senator Obama just lost the Florida primary when he said he would agree to meet with dictators like Venzuela's Hugo Chavez or Cuba's Fidel Castro.

With all due respect Senator Obama has a lot to learn about foreign policy and the US presidency is not a learn as you go type of job.

You saying independants unity while attack dems'. You want chance by elceting the same party and people that have been in charge for 15 years? Ok. Go with that. See who else what's to buy a bridge. I know you gop'ers hate this country. I know you talk about how hard it i elsewhere and how great we have it, how we should be MORE LIKEOTHER COUNTRIES. Guess what? This is america. We have a differant goal than those countries.You gop'ers want to live in south korea be my guest. America, land of the free home of the BRAVE remember. Lost your fear. Fear is in your head. Changing the country to a fascsit state won;t take fear or make us more safe. You have been lied to. Fear doesn;'t exist.

Here's more info on voter suppression attempts.

http://a9.g.akamai.net/7/9/8082/v001/www.democrats.org/pdfs/vri_voter_intimidation.pdf

It is certainly time for all Americans to consider the truth about politics and the media. We rarely get the truth from either one. A Clinton by any name is still a Clinton and bad for all of us. Hilary offers NOTHING new and the rest of the world apparently thinks the same way. Read it and weep Hilarites...If Democrats haven't learned anything by backing candidates like Howard Dean and John Kerry, then they deserve Hilary. It is time for us to put someone in the Oval Office that can make the changes necessary for Americans to regain America. Not new higher taxes, not a watered-down pointless healthcare system and certainly not a President who wants to go around the world apolgizing and selling us down the river. I don't see any other foreign nations reaching out to us for anything but money or big give-aways. In case Americans don't know...France elected a new leader that is not a liberal...Germany elected a new leader that is not a liberal...Spain caved in to terrorist and ran from democracy like a scarred cat!!!! Independents please unite and take this country away from those who want to see us defeated by our diversity, torn apart by special interests and who are more concerned about looking smart than being smart. I believe in America and ask again, INDEPENDENTS UNITE and take this country to NEW HEIGHTS...the American public is not stupid like Democrats like to say..we are perhaps too trustful of those we elect. It is time to make our government WORK for US!!!

sorry about the double post

http://www.votelaw.com/blog/blogdocs/GOP_Ballot_Security_Programs.pdf

This academic research paper documents many "ballot security" measures that amount to little more than efforts to suppress minority votes.

John Edwards should do so much better in a debate scenario, After all, he made a fortune performing for juries as his profession! Sadly, he's performed quite poorly in every debate thus far. It is as if he's asleep at the wheel.

I often times wonder if HE wants the presidency as badly as Elizabeth. He is cetainly a different candidate that he was in 2004 and it's not for the better. Very lackluster.

What is up with those CHEESY photos in men's and women's Vogue? So much for the Edwardses being "down to earth." I hate to say it, but I think their ship has sailed.

"But this isn't the first Op-Ed Yoo has written on the topic of Executive Privilege for the Wall St. Journal. Back in 1998, when Bill Clinton was asserting the same privilege to resist Congressional demands that his closest aides testify about the President's deliberations in responding to the various Lewinsky investigations, Yoo became one of the leading spokespeople denouncing the assertion of this privilege. "

So executive privledge bad for bj's good for the murder of thousands of people. good for the destruction of the doj. As long as he's not cheating on his wife. As long as he is claims he's a "christian" right? The gop is a joke. Now the jokes on you. YOu have a year. use it wisely

I'm not wasting time on you puppet fascists today. I got bigger fish to fry.

Fox is done. Like the GOp thye have less than a year of relevance. Keeping talking yourslef into a frenzy Mike/zouk. You have a year. Then you will be back in the closet. Little angry tim mcveighs. You have a year of relevance. Then you little cry babies will go back to what you do best. HATING AMERICA, when your not in charge.

You got a year left. Rather than spinning and attacking you better try and fix the detruction you have cause to this great country. No amount of blame will fix this one for you.

Enough whining zouk/mike. We already know you are little elementary school kids. You want me off this site, help get get Fox off the air. Otherwise. SILENCE

nO MORE SOUP for you. You have a year. use it wisely. You party is done for a generation. HAHAHAHAHHAHA. I laugh at you. The only people you are convincing zouk is yourself. You are in dream world, have been for years. To bad (for you) more people aren't with

Report: Man with Almost No Brain Has Led Normal Life
Tuesday, July 24, 2007

According a case history to be published in Saturday's Lancet, Dr. Lionel Feuillet told AFP. "The images were most unusual... the brain was virtually absent."

Congratulations Rufus, they have diganosed your problem at last!

proud

There have been definite attempts by Republican groups in various places to suppress minority votes. In fact, there have been numerous consent decrees by which the national and state GOP organizations have agreed to cease and desist from using these tactics.

Some examples:

Off-duty police were hired in Orlando to go through a minority neighborhood and question citizens about their voting habits. The officers talked about criminal penalties for voter fraud and provided inaccurate examples of what that would be. The Justice Department is investigating.

South Dakota Republican officials sent police to investigate 2000 newly registered Native American voters.

There have been numerous examples of misleading information mailed to minority voters, of old and dilapidated voting machines provided to minority precincts, of fewer machines per voter being placed in minority precincts than in majority precincts. Florida in 2000 hired a consultant to supposedly purge felons from the voting rolls - thousands on non-felons were stripped from the rolls. Virtually all were minorities. There have been numerous instances of election officials demanding indentification well beyond the legal requirements.

proud

There have been definite attempts by Republican groups in various places to suppress minority votes. In fact, there have been numerous consent decrees by which the national and state GOP organizations have agreed to cease and desist from using these tactics.

Some examples:

Off-duty police were hired in Orlando to go through a minority neighborhood and question citizens about their voting habits. The officers talked about criminal penalties for voter fraud and provided inaccurate examples of what that would be. The Justice Department is investigating.

South Dakota Republican officials sent police to investigate 2000 newly registered Native American voters.

There have been numerous examples of misleading information mailed to minority voters, of old and dilapidated voting machines provided to minority precincts, of fewer machines per voter being placed in minority precincts than in majority precincts. Florida in 2000 hired a consultant to supposedly purge felons from the voting rolls - thousands on non-felons were stripped from the rolls. Virtually all were minorities. There have been numerous instances of election officials demanding indentification well beyond the legal requirements.

I have to say, I wasn't a big Clinton fan before but the more I see of her, the more polished and smart and articulate she becomes.

I have to say, if she doesn't get it, no woman will.

The Dow Jones industrials fell more than 200 points.

the market is now contemplating the idea that hillary has assumed she will gain the nomination and is now aiming her message at primary voters. the extreme left Kos haters are going to go loco. Edwards has shown he is a snake oil salesman, Obama is an adolescent. The inevitable hillary has turned the corner. Her shuffle to the left is over.

I don't understand. While my lying eyes saw all the Democratic presidential candidates on last night's stage, Dan Balz's article clearly indicates that only Hillary and Obama participated.

Hillary Clinton, as always, was calm, cool, collected and concise in her responses. She won the debate hands down, as usual. She is the embodiment of "presidential."

John Edwards is NOT a politician, but he tries to play one on TV.

Winner? I think not!

John Edwards has proposed taxing the millionaires in hedge funds and private equity firms.
A few days later, Obama and Hillary joined him.

Rufus -- WAY TO NOT EVEN ANSWER THE QUESTION

I guess Rufus is admitting that the following ideas are "Democrat" ideas and not just far-left hate filled ideas:

-Exterminate Israel
-Attack the Troops
-Wish Death and Suffering on our political opponents

Nice, Rufus. You really are a clown.