Mark in Austin: I agree on our hypo Prez in that they are indeed "Above the Law" in about every situation, even to a degree in our hypo muder case.

hi - in TX, we elect them both.

Mark in Austin: This has bee a very good exchange of thoughts, however I have to sorta disagree on your last paragraph. A Federal Judge is appointed and therefore cannot be put in the same pool as elected officials, such as Mayors, City council... When you compare a FJ to the Prez, no way. Btw, I don't think you have answered whether the JPs and Constables are elected or appointed, I assume the JP is elected, and the Constable could be either.

lyle, the Jones case was civil, as you said and as I wrote previously, but the narrow issue of whether the judicial process can reach the Prez while he is in office was decided. It did postpone the civil trial until after the Prez left office, but not discovery.

The analogy to a criminal case might lead to the conclusion that the Prez could be arrested, and indicted, for a crime committed while in office, but not tried until after Impeachment and Removal. But that would be the most relief our hypothetical felon Prez could get.

The Constitution on these matters treats the Prez no differently than a Federal Judge. Of course, there are those big Secret Service guys around the Prez, but not around judges.

Mark in Austin: The Jones case was cival. Others accused Bubba of Rape and other criminal things that happened before he was POTUS and no warrent was issued on any of them. My main concern is about a sitting Prez, who, by without any doubt, not reasonable doubt, has committed a crime.

Mark in Austin: At the time I was thinking of how much the Judicial system has changed in recent years, and just remembered I had heard about a Constable being the only law enforcement officer that could indeed arrest the POTUS. I cannot argue with you on the point you make about the hypothetical murder by the Prez, but I still think, relying on memory, that no State, Federal, or town/county law enforcement officer can arrest the Prez, because no criminal warrent can be issued prior to impeachment, and only then if the Senate convicts. Good one, Huh?

lylepink, hi -

The short reply would be that your premise is incorrect.

The Constitution is silent as to Presidential immunity. It does say this:

Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

During the Jones case, Clinton argued that the civil proceeding must abate [stop] until he left office, but the Court said
there was nothing in the Constitution that put the Prez above the process of the law.

Agnew and several Federal Judges were indicted before they left office.

If a Prez broke a state law s/he would actually be exposed to arrest and prosecution in the state. The FBI and the Marshalls and the ATF have statutory authority to arrest for Federal crimes with warrant.

There is the practical problem of getting through a heavily armed cordon of Secret Service agents to arrest a Prez, and I suspect that some alternative to forcible arrest would be negotiated in most cases.

Texas still has constables and JPs, but if a Prez murdered the First Spouse while on vacation in San Antonio the hypothetical arrest would more likely be made by SAPD than by a Deputy Constable. Constables generally serve civil process in Texas.

That was fun to think about. What scenario were you developing?

Mark in Austin: Thanks, sometimes it is hard to keep track as to what thread a question is asked and the answer is on another. While I think of it, does Texas have a JP [Justice of the Piece] system where a Constable is the primary warrent server?, and if they are appointed or elected positions? The reason for the question is, my memory is not clear but I think a Constable was the only law enforcement official that could arrest the POTUS, this goes back to the 60s or 70s when the JP was replaced by Magistrates. My state no longer have Constables or JPs.

Why bother, if he had posted facts you would have just ignored them anyways...

"Of course, it is also a boost for the GOP in Iowa, something they need since the state has gone from a red, to at the very least, a purple state"

I don't know that it ever has been red. It continues to send Harking to the Senate, voted for Gore in 2000, voted for Clinton both times, Dukakis in 1988, and has long had a split congressional delegation. It isn't a northeastern liberal state for sure, but it's got a long history of voting Democratic and is pretty evenly split.

To the anonymous poster,

I appreciate your comments and simply wish you had stated any facts whatsoever in any of your posts instead of attacking me and politicians children. Have a great day.

george, do us all a favor and stop living in rightwing Lala Land.

"The military operations in Iraq are handled by David Petraeus. He was confirmed unanimously in the senate. Every single person who cared enough to vote thought he would do a good job leading our troops in Iraq. He has publicly said that things are getting better. He has also said that he felt the draft would not be necessary at this time."

Bull. Bush has said in the past that he decided on surging forces after hearing from a number of people, most notably Jack Keane and Fred Kagan. This is their strategy, not Petraeus's, as true COIN strategy would require 400-500,000 troops to pacify all of Iraq, not just to score a quick victory in Baghdad to give DC the appearance of success to merely prolongue a losing strategy until Bush leaves office. As for Petraeus and his reasons for optimism, he lost all credibility with me when he became a politician back in September 2004 with this piece:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A49283-2004Sep25.html

No wonder the President likes him so much, he owes his re-election to him (probably why he got the command...)

"The republicans didnt do anything to chelsea clinton. Yet the Bush girls and now Mitt's kids are under constant attack."

Baloney again. Rush Limbaugh called her the "Family dog" when she was just 13 and trying to stay out of the spotlight, meanwhile Romney's kids are all actively and openly campaigning for their dad (a were the Bush daughters) which, yes does make them fair game. If they want out of the spotlight, they shouldn't seek it out.

Lylepink, The "purpose" of the Straw Poll is actually to raise money for the Iowa GOP, and they expect to raise somewhere around $1 million this year.

The another "purpose" is to test organizational ability, I guess the rationale being if you can't organize a campaign, how can you run a country. Rudy and McCain have weak organizations in Iowa, thus the dropping out of the event.

The last "purpose" is to winnow the field, something the GOP especially could use, at least in the debates as so many candidates make meaningful exchange difficult.

Of course, it is also a boost for the GOP in Iowa, something they need since the state has gone from a red, to at the very least, a purple state.

Hope this answers your question.

http://whathappenedtomycountry.blogspot.com

Markos Alberto C. Moulitsas Zúñiga (MAMZ), who calls himself an immigrant but was born in Chicago, would like to leverage his power at DailyKos to determine the outcome of the Democratic primary and then go on to control the Democratic Party itself.

But how can he possibly succeed? It is becoming common knowledge MAMZ spent six months applying to work at the Central Intelligence Agency in 2001, just as he was starting DailyKos.

Can the leftist bloggers be led by someone whose past is admittedly intertwined with the Central Intelligence Agency?

http://truth-about-kos.blogspot.com

Truth, I just checked in and saw your comments. I wanted you to note Lylepink's question to you on the previous thread.

Have a good da.

Sorry... the Straw Poll coverage just started, 12:30pm EASTERN time.

Mark in Austin and George... You both make good points, but on your opinion of Petraeus I must disagree.

When Petraeus was in charge of training the Iraqi army we "lost" 190,000 AK-47s and pistols, weapons now being used against our soldiers.

Peers said of Petraeus when he was awarded his 4th star, that his rank now matched his ego.

Whether or not this remark is warranted, the Iraqi army wasn't trained as claimed... the Fallajh brigade almost immediately deserted taking their weapons with which to kill our troops... and Petraeus wasn't brought to account.

In other words... I won't trust Petraeus' words, although I wish him every success.

For those interested, CSpan will carry the Ames Straw Poll starting at 12:30 (I think that is Central Time.)

http://whathappenedtomycountry.blogspot.com

RE, Recent reports have suggested a draft may be in order to sustain the troop levels that are required by most knowledge folks in the are of National Security. The Bonus payment for re-enlistment has been falling shot for the Army and Marines, according to reports released recently. This appears to be widespread in that the majority of folks thinks this war for "Oil/Money" has been such a failure in the execution phase, and are hoping and praying for an end to the sacrifice of our young men and women.

Mark,

I thank you for your comments.

I agree that there are significant problems with the Maliki government. I think that very few reasonable people could debate this.

I would point out that he was elected by the people of his country. While the Shiite and Kurds voted, the sunnis boycotted. It is disingenuous for them to then complain they are not represented.

I think the best solution for this whole situation is that we hold another election, this time with all three major factions participating. That would add some legitimacy to the government that it is lacking right now and would also make the government more representative.

So I agree with you that the government in Iraq is having problems.

All that being said, that is hardly anyones fault but the Iraqis. The Iraqis need to get their act together. I supported the compromise of benchmarks. I support the compromise of hearing the progress in September.

I think after the next election, things will get a lot better. I think until then we should trust the General to handle the situation on the ground.

George - I think you are being reasonable and although the anonymous poster has a point about the degradation of our ground forces and the shortfall of recruitment into the all volunteer army, the personal attack on you is completely unwarranted.

Engaging on an issue, I stipulate Petraeus is a smart and skilled General who has always stated that the purpose of our clamping a lid on Iraqi violence is to give the Iraqi government breathing room to do its job.

But the Iraqi government is fragmented, and Maliki is only interested in Shia hegemony.
It is doing nothing.

This looks like the case of a surgeon reporting that the operation was a success, but the patient died.

@He called for lower taxes and the elimination of the estate tax,@

Count on the Mittster to say whatever he thinks people want to hear...and why not? he can always do a 180 and say the exact opposite later, which was his MO in Massachusetts...remember your pro-abortion days, Mitt? Bet you'd like to slither away from that one now...bwahahahahahah......

***It also peturbs me on some level that these are the same people who then call for an elevated political discourse. Stop picking on their kids and start stating your issues.Posted by: George | August 11, 2007 08:33 AM ***

Posted by GEORGE? Sounds like Dumbya's father, Big Poppy....but then with Poppy's help Dumbya ran away from the Vietnam draft, jumped over a long list of National Guard applicants into a nice safe Texas Guard unit, and I guess Daddy might be a little sensitive about that issue, eh?

The military operations in Iraq are handled by David Petraeus. He was confirmed unanimously in the senate. Every single person who cared enough to vote thought he would do a good job leading our troops in Iraq. He has publicly said that things are getting better. He has also said that he felt the draft would not be necessary at this time.

I dont understand how people like the person who commented on my first post, refuse to believe the generals in the field. They are there, we are not. They are seeing the progress, we are not. They are the ones making the tough decisions, we are not.

Lets let them do their jobs and they will tell us what they need. The last thing we really need right now is for congress to run this war.

And the way they vent this frustration, is that the liberals pick on politicians kids and expect it to play well in the press. I got news for you. It doesnt. It makes you seem cold and callous. The republicans didnt do anything to chelsea clinton. Yet the Bush girls and now Mitt's kids are under constant attack.

Do us all a favor stop attacking the kids.

'McClatchy: "Vice President Dick Cheney several weeks ago proposed launching airstrikes at 'suspected training camps' in Iran run by the Quds force, a special unit of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps, according to two U.S. officials who are involved in Iran policy."

Chney is hellbent on having Iran's oil. Nothing will stop him. Not WW3, not the death of thousands or millions of americans by terrorism. He is the very face of evil.

'McClatchy: "Two knowledgeable U.S. officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity because intelligence on Iran is highly classified, said that the administration so far doesn't have 'smoking-gun' evidence that could be used publicly to justify an air attack [on Iran]. The presumed target of an attack would be camps in Iran where officials believe the Iranians are teaching Iraqi Shiite fighters how to fashion bombs that can destroy American armored vehicles."

There will be war on Iran, and there will be a draft. There's no other way to do it. Pack your boots, gopers and war cheerleaders!

The issue, george, is that the volunteer military is being destyroyed by back to back deployments. We are not getting eough volunteers to keep up the force strength. How hard is that for people like you to understand? Do the math.

This is why we call mitt out for his hypocrisy. Calling for a bigger military -- how? If not enough people are volunteering to keep up the one we have? Mitt has 5 sons of military age. Why should not a single one of them volunteer? These hypocrites are telling other people to give up their children-- why not their own?

The military is dying. If you believe in the war, if you support the troops -- go to Iraq!

I think it's a measure of how brain dead the Republicans have become on the "war on terror" that their big puffing or policy statements on the issue now most often amount to bizarre and sometimes incomprehensible grammatical reformulations or, failing that, reorderings of sentence structure.

So for example, now you have Mitt Romney saying, "There's not a global war on terror. There's a global war being waged by the terrorists and if I am president, there will be a global war waged on the terrorists and we will win."

This comes after Rudy's insistence on rebranding the War on Terror as the "Terrorists' War on Us." (see the video)

Their perplexity and paralysis in the face of reality is making them look like one of those alien computers or robots at the end of one of the old Star Trek episodes where Capt. Kirk hits them with too much kick-ass logic and smoke starts to come out of their ears and then they explode.

Late Update: Alternative Headline: Emerging GOP consensus that War on Terror is being waged in the passive voice!

Now we know who the real America-haters are, and they are quite clear about it. Right-wing, conservative media are the true enemies of patiotic Americans, wishing wholesale death and destruction here at home so they can advance their Stalinist agendas. This is a real wake-up call for the patriotic left, the founders of this country, and true owners, to do all in our power to shut down the treasonous poison of those that wish harm on America just to prove the point that they are, in fact, Nazis. tey have just given up their right to tout the 1st Amendment, and if we don't stop them, they will bring about the destruction of the country. Treason and sedition are alive and well on FOX noise, and it's time to get serious about taking back our freedoms before these scumsuckers destroy it in the name of greed and power.

It is absurd to expect every single person who supports the war to serve in the military. No more than we tell those who support public education that they must be teachers. No more than we tell those that are against the war that they must protest the war. It is a volunteer army.

Not to mention that is really just attacking the messenger not the message. You're anti-war, that's great. Say your arguments for it instead of picking on Mitt Romney's kids.

It also peturbs me on some level that these are the same people who then call for an elevated political discourse. Stop picking on their kids and start stating your issues.

The Bush administration used the events of 9/11 to launch an unnecessary war, curtail the rights of Americans, torture, illegally spy, and violate the Constitution. The right-wing can't wait for "another 9/11″ so they can take it to the next level--a complete fascist government takeover.

This is the sickness of so-called 'conservatives'. They can't wait to see thousands more of their fellow americans dead. Sick, pathetic vultures:

Right-Wing Media Give Favorable Platform To 'Another 9/11′ Columnist

In his Thursday column, Philadelphia Daily News scribe Stu Bykofsky wished for the tragic death of 3000+ Americans when he wrote that "another 9/11 would help America."

A host of right-wing media outlets provided Bykofsky a national platform yesterday that largely served to give credence to the columnist's ghoulish suggestion.

Drudge gave the article a top row, center column link:

Radio host Mike Gallagher, who claims to have "over 3.75 million weekly listeners" across the country, hosted Bykofsky (on the very same day that he scored an interview with Rudy Giuliani):

Bykofsky's biggest booster, however, was Fox News. Yesterday morning's Fox and Friends did a segment on his column. Later in the afternoon, Bykofsky appeared on The Big Story, where host John Gibson agreed with and validated Bykofsky's thesis. "I think it's going to take a lot of dead people to wake America up," said Gibson.

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Frequent tours for U.S. forces in Iraq and Afghanistan have stressed the all-volunteer force and made it worth considering a return to a military draft, President Bush's new war adviser said Friday.

"I think it makes sense to certainly consider it," Army Lt. Gen. Douglas Lute said in an interview with National Public Radio's "All Things Considered."

I know a bunch of people hate on CC or the candidates from the other team, but just being able to be a part of all this stuff even a little bit is really great. Thanks CC.

"He called for lower taxes and the elimination of the estate tax, the recruitment of an additional 100,000 troops in the military and for a concerted effort to 'clean up the water of filth a lot of our kids swim in.' "

Decrease the amount of money the government takes in and then force it to spend more. Real smart. "IIIIIIIIOWA where the deficits come sweepin' down the plains!" Is this type of financial voodooism now part of the DNA of the GOP? And CC, diet pepsi after a fried oreo amounts to closing the barn door after the horse is GONE.

Were the four Romney sons in uniform? Their Dad sez they are serving their country by getting him elected Preznit, after all.

There should be a special uniform for that.

****************************************************

"the recruitment of an additional 100,000 troops in the military and for a concerted effort to "clean up the water of filth a lot of our kids swim in."

Maybe his kids can enlist so they won't have to swim in that filth (oh wait, he meant other people's kids, on both counts)...

So, then, why is Mitt raising less than half the money in my typical state of Washington that Obama is, with Sen. Clinton a distant second?

And, according to a recent poll reported at SLOG, most Dems want Al Gore, with Obama second, and when Gore is not included Obama is the main choice and Sen. Clinton can't even get half the voters he does?

You MSM people are all alike - pushing your perceived choice when the ground says it's different.