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yes the bush girls are ta be like daddy when we were in veit nam the rich and famouse are excluded from war this war was a bush war daddy fought bush started it it he was presdent sonny bush told the americans people he was going to remove saddam before he even was elected presdent and people voted for him any ways the lies fell short iam still wondering why we have not found what bush promised the real truth where is the mass distruvtive weapons [predent bush] NO AMESTY

Well Mark, let's just say I believe that the Federal government has gotten too big, too cumbersome, too unweildy. Obviously the Constitution cannot be used as a roadmap for spending programs, per se, but it's hard to argue that a more 'Constitutional' government, ie one the framers intended, would necessarily be far smaller.

The country works best when the States handle stuff like this. If they want to fund their own SCHIP, fine; and the residents of those states can vote out the bums if they want, and/or think they're getting overtaxed so they can provide healthcare to middle class families.

An aside note, I heard on the radio, might have been Rush's show, that Rasmussen had a pole, saying that 70% of the people were in favor of 'free' health care. Free. Sure, nobody will have to pay for it.

JD, SCHIP is not a constitutional mandate by any means. It not impermissible, either. But Congress is charged with providing for the "general welfare", second only to its charge to provide for the common "defence". The Public Health Service dates from the 1790s.

There are specific powers - like establishing post offices and the post roads, too. The post office is quasi-private now. The post roads
became US Highways, then Interstates.

The enormous number of cabinet members are not defined in the Constitution, either. Even the Original three: State, War, and Treasury, were created in 1789 by Congress, not by the Constitution.

JD, my point is that the Constitution is historically very elastic as to the powers clauses. You know this.

The Supreme Court is historically deferential to Congress and to the Executive, except where defined personal rights and liberties like the free exercise of religion or the right to be compensated for a taking of property are threatened. I hope it remains the case that the Supremes will not preside over the erosion of enumerated liberties.

But when it comes to distinguishing and rating spending alternatives, the Constitution cannot be relied upon to provide the details of any Congressional agenda. So while I favor an FBI [fashioned from pure general welfare] and an SEC [fashioned from the enumerated commerce power] and about one third of the Cabinet [created out of virtual whole cloth, I think the word itself may appear once] I do tend to measure new programs based on cost-benefit analyses. So you surprised me when you claimed the Constitution as your
measure.

bsimon, so you admit that these tactics are deplorable and disgusting...yet you defend them because a) it's the Democrats and b) Repubs used them back in the day?

Sad, bro

Mark, my litmus test is not whether there's a positive ROI on any program; with government, there usually isn't, at least not one that is measurable (ie, what's the ROI on our border checkpoints? on the FBI? even on the military? see what I mean)

I usually throw my support behind programs that are, I don't know, supported by the Constitution. SCHIP hardly qualifies.

I applaud the Dems for their cynicism. They hit a home run with this. Too bad though, because it will greatly damage the country's financial position, once we have to pony up the big bucks in the out years.

And for all you uber lefties thinking I'm a Repub, just because I'm not banging a drum, screaming about Darfur or protesting global warming, I would say the same thing about the Medicare Part D that Bush passed (with Teddy's help). Insane. The Government is spending like drunken sailors, and no R or D is getting my vote until they can show me that they are going into rehab.

fascists fascists everywhere

Read the above quote. So which is it? It is not racist. Or is it racist but who cares?

GOP doublethink is funny to me. to bad people are dying as a result of their lies

The hypocricy and defense of o'reilly continues:

"First, placed in their proper context, his comments simply don't come across as inflammatory. O'Reilly's overall theme is that many whites have very little real experience with black people. As a result, their views of African- Americans are clouded by negative perceptions that come from mainstream media consumption.

Are all black people gangsta rappers or convicts? Of course not, but without a lot of personal interaction, many white people may not recognize that.

Does O'Reilly share some of that ignorance? Perhaps, especially when his words are improperly isolated.

Even if he does, so what? Obviously, this a common problem in our society. That should not seem newsworthy to CNN.
"

http://www.mrc.org/cyberalerts/2007/cyb20070927.asp

Will the Dems have a "morning after the drunken pick-up" shocker when they see who they brought home?

zouk is a coward and a fasicst. Why are you in iraq cashing the checks you are writing here. you goper's are real tough when when you are not in danger. Fight for what you believe in. Like I did when I got out of the military. And believe me I had to fight to get out. My two front teeth are gone as a result of my battle with gop fascist robots.

I would be all for the iraq war if only gop'ers got the rewards (as you are now) but also had to share the cost yourselves. But his is one nation. So I and my brothers cash the checks you people write. And you rmad at me for forcing accountability on how our troops are used. WOW. You robots got balls. I'll give you that. If you only had them when it counts. You should brave when you have the advantage. Bullies. That's all you people are. When the d's stripe your party of all power then what. Then who will back you? Will that person have any credibility with the rest of america, and the world? Probably not.

think abou the future zouk. You little cowardly napolean complex coward, you

Hillary - how much will pardons cost in your administration?

Cackle cackle cackle. I will have to check with bill first. He has been studying the market.

Hillary - why do you refuse to answer any hard questions about SS or medicare?

Cackle, cackle, cackle, double cackle. I am still waiting for the poll results to come in before I lead the nation to a solution.

hillary, is it true you have already booked the Lincoln bedroom for the first 100 days?

that was bill, cackle, cackle. He wanted to make sure his newest bimbos had somewhere to stay. he is not charging them rent this time. he is rich now, remember?

hillary - are you going to war with Iran?

Cackle, cackle, cackle, sigh, cackle. I voted to blame Bush for this. I really don't think much about what I vote for, I just watch the polling numbers. but you all know that.

hillary - is it OK to teach 2nd graders about sex?

cackle, cackle, triple cackle, wheeze, snort, cackle It is a fine thing to teach kids tolerance, unless its not, on occasion. can we poll this first?

That's a reprinted press release from David Horowitz's FrontPageMag. The text reads, "The photo accompanying this article, which shows a teenage girl buried before being stoned to death for alleged sexual offenses, will serve as the poster for the protest Week. The stoning took place in Iran."

This photo turns up all over the right-wing media, but the 'stoning' actually takes place in a Dutch indie film called De Steen, directed by Mahnaz Tamizi. The teenage girl is actress Smadar Monsinos.

http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/7259.html

'after which she did some volunteering in Latin America.'

and wasked to leave to leave two different countries for a little too much partying at her hotels.

www.votevets.org

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jon-soltz/so-im-a-phony-soldier_b_66175.html

"
Jon Soltz| BIO | I'M A FAN OF THIS BLOGGER
So I'm a "Phony Soldier," Rush?
Posted September 27, 2007 | 03:07 PM (EST)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Read More: Iraq war, Major Generals against the war, Rush Limbaugh, Rush Limbaugh phony soldiers, Soldiers against the war, soldiers in Iraq, votevets, Breaking Politics News

As Media Matters reported today, Rush Limbaugh, on his show said that those troops who come home and want to get America out of the middle of the religious civil war in Iraq are "phony soldiers." I'd love for you, Rush, to have me on your show and tell that to me to my face.

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Where to begin?

First, in what universe is a guy who never served even close to being qualified to judge those who have worn the uniform? Rush Limbaugh has never worn a uniform in his life -- not even one at Mickey D's -- and somehow he's got the moral standing to pass judgment on the men and women who risked their lives for this nation, and his right to blather smears on the airwaves?

Second, maybe Rush doesn't much care, but the majority of troops on the ground in Iraq, and those who have returned, do not back the President's failed policy. If you go to our "Did You Get the Memo" page at VoteVets.org, there's a good collection of stories, polls, and surveys, which all show American's troops believe we are on the wrong track, not the right one, in Iraq.

Does Rush believe, then, that the majority of the US Armed Forces are "phony?"

Third, the polls and stories don't even take into account the former brass who commanded in Iraq, who are incredibly critical of the Bush administration, and it's steadfast refusal to listen to those commanders on the ground who have sent up warning after warning. Major Generals John Batiste and Paul Eaton left the military and joined VoteVets.org for that very reason.

Does Rush believe that highly decorated Major Generals are "phony soldiers?"

Finally, as Media Matters notes, just recently, members of the 82nd Airborne in Iraq wrote a New York Times op-ed, very critical of the course in Iraq, and suggesting it was time to figure out the exit strategy. Two of them just died. Will Rush call up their grieving parents and tell them that they should stop crying, because they were just "phony soldiers?"

Get the point here, Rush?

You weren't just flat out wrong, you offended a majority of those of us who actually had the courage to go to Iraq and serve, while you sat back in your nice studio, coming up with crap like this.

My challenge to you, then, is to have me on the show and say all of this again, right to the face of someone who served in Iraq. I'll come on any day, any time. Not only will I once again explain why your comments were so wrong, but I will completely school you on why your refusal to seek a way out of Iraq is only aiding al Qaeda and crippling American security.

Ball's in your court.
"

"During the September 26 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio show, Rush Limbaugh called service members who advocate U.S. withdrawal from Iraq "phony soldiers." He made the comment while discussing with a caller a conversation he had with a previous caller, "Mike from Chicago," who said he "used to be military," and "believe[s] that we should pull out of Iraq." Limbaugh told the second caller, whom he identified as "Mike, this one from Olympia, Washington," that "[t]here's a lot" that people who favor U.S. withdrawal "don't understand" and that when asked why the United States should pull out, their only answer is, " 'Well, we just gotta bring the troops home.' ... 'Save the -- keeps the troops safe' or whatever," adding, "[I]t's not possible, intellectually, to follow these people." "Mike" from Olympia replied, "No, it's not, and what's really funny is, they never talk to real soldiers. They like to pull these soldiers that come up out of the blue and talk to the media." Limbaugh interjected, "The phony soldiers." The caller, who had earlier said, "I am a serving American military, in the Army," agreed, replying, "The phony soldiers."

Rush Limbaugh, dissing our brave soldiers sacrificing in combat??? I am positive that the Republican party in Congress are drafting up an amendment to condemn that heartless Limbaugh, right? (/snark)

Actually, that's a good idea: Here is the Roll Call from the House MoveOn condemnation and the Senate MoveOn condemnation. Clearly, Limbaugh is violating the "sense of the Senate" by criticizing active duty troops. McCain thought that MoveOn should "be thrown out of the country." Lieberman called it "an outrageous and despicable act of slander that every member of the Congress -- Democrat and Republican -- has a solemn responsibility to condemn."

So let's ask them. Ask Lieberman and McCain if they will condemn Rush Limbaugh as they have MoveOn. Let's ask ALL the congress critters who thought it important to condemn MoveOn if they will do the same for Rush.

Jon Soltz asks, "So, I'm a phony soldier, Rush?" as does Iraq veteran John Bruhn.

UPDATE: John Amato: "I'm calling on the Senate to pass an amendment or uphold their latest one and condemn Rush Limbaugh's cowardly acts on our troops! Soldiers from the 82nd Airborne in Iraq wrote a NY Times op-ed--criticizing the war in Iraq, and had the bravery to suggest that it was time to develop an exit strategy. Two of them just died. Are they phonies, Rush? Where's the "sense of the Senate" on this outrage?

Below the fold, I've got some numbers and contacts for Democratic leadership that voted to condemn MoveOn as well.
"

"Do you feel my pain, now?"

rufus, that's exactly why we're here. We can help you. You need it.

Get in touch with us: http://www.va.gov/rcs/

"Yes, sort of. Though they likely didn't have the same choices available that Jenna Bush did. People with backgrounds like hers, if they go into the military, attend one of the academies, they don't enlist. Most of the people that enlist don't have the option of going to college immediately following high school. Some are enlisting in order to earn money for college, some just plain aren't qualified, academically. So while yes, its true, we have a volunteer army, and nobody forced any of them to enlist, its a bit disingenuous to argue that they had the same choices laid out before them as Jenna Bush. "

Well said simon. you mention why I joined the army. Working full time going to school. Kicked out of the house at 18. making 6.15 as mgr of video store. In san jose a studio costs at least 1000. Can one live off 6.15 paying that much?

i had no choice to join the military. I was lied to and fandangled into the infantry.

I see the boxes coming back and see myself. I wasn't into guns and murder. I was a good naive kid. sacraficing what amounts to me (if that makes sense) so bush and his gop cohorts can make millions, angers me beyond beleif. If I didn't get out (of my own accord. they tried their darndest to keep me in) I would be dead right now. They would have took this liberal out to the desert and I would have share my boy Pat TIllman's fate.

I fought my way out. I couldn't take orders from some of those people. Before taking an order I must agree wiht it first. That doesn't fly well in the military. But I was not kicked out. On the contray. I was the hardest man their. My sgt's did everything they could to force me to stay. Me and ten others refused to follow their orders. They threated us with jail time. We stood toghter as one. they held us all till the end of basic. Imagine the anger and animosity from them. Imagine the fights and battles us ten had to fight. If the rest of the soldiers came out hard, waht did the ten of us come out as. Everybody around us wants us dead at all times. imagine that. Not to mention the sgts and command sgts. OOOOOHHH.

"That which does not kill you only makes you stronger."

"You may say I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one"

John Lennon

"'Bruce continued: "And the intention is the same. The intention is to smear an individual without any basis in reality, without any fairness, in an attempt to make that person demonized so that they will not be listened to." She added: "It is a very serious dynamic."

Drindl. That sounds like what jd proud and zouk try to do to me everyday, isn't it. Welcome to my world :)

Do you feel my pain, now?

Rufas, I thought your self-proclaimed last day was come and gone. what are you doing here? We never believe a thing you say but now we have proof.

"If you're in favor of this SCHIP bill, you're in favor of nationalized healthare (or as the righties call it, HillaryCare).

There are many legit reasons why one might vote against it, including reducing the deficit for one. However, the rule of thumb in DC is, if you have to explain your vote, you've already lost the fight.

Sad that Dems would play politics this way, but I'm hardly surprised. Read Novak's piece in today's WaPo for the non-Broder viewpoint.
"

Novak? Novak? What is a journalist or newsman/woman with zero credibility? Are they still news if no one believes anything they say. The gop would say yes. I say if you have no credibility you are a propogandist. If you are known to be lying constantly about the "news" you are reporting you rare not credibile? Remember when journalist and newspeople spent their whole lives building credibility?

Obviously not JD. Your pointing to novak. What Willaim "the bloody" Kristol didn't opine today?

"Aah, I see. The new wackjob rightwing Meme of the Day [faithfully as always posted here by zouk] is that if Bill O-Reilly says something racist, and you point that out, you are a Gestapo. Makes perfect sense, doesn't it? "

i DIDN'T WANT TO SAY ANYTHIng. Of course I saw o'reilly last night and know what he was doing. Last week it was moveon. This week they are atack mediamatters for repeating his wrods back to him.

Good eye drindl. Way to dig. You hear me now. What will the gop do without their avatars? How will they consolidate their lies and propoganda?

I'm just glad most of the midea is reportin gon him rather than burying it liek they always do. Maybe the MSM has had enough of his attacks.

I call O'Rielly a propogandist and a fascist, as many others on the new left. his response? Elementary school kid's. "I know you are but what am I"

I sincerly hope america see's these peopel for what they are. Fascism. propoganda for profit. I've been telling you people. Cleaning up the news (making the news real facts instead of opinion) should be priority number 1 for this country moving forward. The right would dissagree of course. They feel this is their only way to have a chance. The 60's are over gop. the red scare of the fifities is over. Spying on americans like nixon did to malcolm X MLK and John Lennon amoung thousands of others is illegal. Why do you hate your own country so?

JD, suppose it could be shown that the cost of a particular governmental program was small compared to the tax revenue it generated. This is not a trick question except in the sense that hindsight may be required to identify the positive cash flow generators. The GI Bill was one; vaccinating against communicable disease usually had that effect; I have seen statistics that say Project Head Start was another, during the 80s. Another example would be NSF-NIH funding of graduate student research that produces breakthroughs for profit-making entities that then pay far more in new taxes than NSF-NIH spent to begin with.

Do you favor tax funded expenditures with a likelihood of generating net positive tax revenue down the line? Suppose S-CHP could
be shown to be revenue positive over time
by limiting parental down time or by stopping communicable disease - would you be more kindly disposed? Just curious.

anon writes
"I don't think that it was disingenuous, because the bottom line choice to join the military was the G.I.'s."

It is. The conversation went:

Jenna: "I think there are many ways to serve your country. And I think ... what's most appropriate for me to do is to teach and represent our country in Latin America."

Anon: "Bet a lotta GI's wish they had that choice..."

Anon2: "They did. It's a volunteer military, remember."


If we review the record a bit, Ms Bush partied her way through college, then 'worked' for her father's reelection campaign (during which there was some partying), after which she did some volunteering in Latin America. And that last bit is certainly worth noting - yes, we can applaud her for doing something positive.


But, again, it is disingenuous to compare the decisions available to her with those available to the average GI. We're talking about two different worlds.

proud, I replied to you on the previous thread about Russert's Israel-Iran question.

Last night, Russert asked the candidates to name their favorite Bible verse. Sen. Barack Obama said the Sermon on the Mount, which was a little broad, but allowed him to riff on the federal deficit and an "empathy deficit." LOL

Rep. Dennis Kucinich cited the prayer of St. Francis, which isn't in the Bible. That was a little odd, because at other gatherings Kucinich has often cited "repairers of the breach," which is from Isaiah and would have been a perfectly fine answer.

The best Bible moment came when Sen. Clinton cited the Golden Rule. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you," she said. "I think it's a good rule for politics, too." It was a interesting choice from the woman who has been videotaped saying, "When you are attacked you have to deck your opponent."

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NGZhMTYxZWViMWRmZDAwZDk0OGI5ZTM4ZDFhMzhlOTM=

the Democrats' PayGO rule and characterized it as nothing more than a gimmick and budgetary ploy to fool the taxpayer. I now want to provide with you two examples to highlight what I am talking about:

1) Farm Bill Reauthorization (HR 2419)

What it does:
- Increases Spending by a total of $18.8 billion over 10 years
- Raises taxes on US business by $7.5 billion over 10 years
- Increases fees on U.S energy companies by $6.1 billion

PayGo Gimmick: This bill pays for the increased spending by delaying farm and crop insurance payments and accelerating crop insurance premium payments for a $4.8 billion in "savings". The problem is that these "savings" do not really exist! Payment schedules are simply modified to comply with PayGO.

2) Terrorism Risk Insurance Revision and Extension Act (HR 2761)

What it does:
- Increases net direct spending by approximately $8.4 billion over the next 10 years assuming a terrorist attack happens during this period, but this is a modest estimate, if an attack was worse than predicted it could run much higher.

PayGo Gimmick: This bill pretends that the government does not have to cover the losses unless a second bill, in the wake of a tragic terrorist attack, is passed by a future Congress.

When the PayGo rule was passed by the majority, Republicans cautioned that it would only promote increased spending, higher taxes, and budgetary tricks.

This is exactly what has happened. Apparently budget gimmicks combined with higher taxes equates to fiscal discipline.

Go figure.

those 'fiscally responsible' Dems are prevaricators.

I don't think that it was disingenuous, because the bottom line choice to join the military was the G.I.'s.

Nobody is forced to do that in our current economy. There may be benefits to doing joining; and I think that this courrent Administration has screwed them royally, but it's not "join or you'll never be a success."

Also, credit Miss Bush for at least doing something positive. She could have always followed in Dad's or Uncle Neil's footsteps.

anon writes
"[GIs] did [have a choice]. It's a volunteer military, remember."

Yes, sort of. Though they likely didn't have the same choices available that Jenna Bush did. People with backgrounds like hers, if they go into the military, attend one of the academies, they don't enlist. Most of the people that enlist don't have the option of going to college immediately following high school. Some are enlisting in order to earn money for college, some just plain aren't qualified, academically. So while yes, its true, we have a volunteer army, and nobody forced any of them to enlist, its a bit disingenuous to argue that they had the same choices laid out before them as Jenna Bush.

Former Senator Edwards: Do you support the president's plan to extend SCHIP program without spending billions to expand it?

The president's plan, announced last January, would fix our discriminatory tax policy so that every American family received a $15,000 tax break for purchasing health insurance.

If Congress acted on the president's plan, nearly 20 million more Americans would have health insurance, according to the independent Lewin Group.

In contrast, Democrats in Congress would more than double government spending on SCHIP and extend the program to families earning as much as $83,000 a year.

But their plan would add fewer than 3 million children to SCHIP, and many of the newly eligible children already have private insurance. So instead of insuring nearly 20 million more Americans privately, Congress would spend billions of dollars to move middle-income Americans off private insurance and onto public assistance.

http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2007/09/opposing-view-7.html#more

Mr. Edwards, would you encourage Congress to put politics aside and send the president a clean, temporary extension of the current program?

JD writes
"Read Novak's piece in today's WaPo for the non-Broder viewpoint."

Because Novak is well-known for his insightful, non-partisan observations.

It looks to me like Novak's primary gripe is that the Dems have learned about dirty tricks from the GOP Congressional leaders that were recently replaced. Behind-closed doors brokering? Yup, the GOP made extensive use of that tactic. Voting on bills without debate? Yup, they done that too.

While I certainly think the continuation of such tactics is indicative of just how toxic and dysfunctional the environment is in Washington, I can't help but laugh at the Novaks of the world that are suddenly up in arms when the dirty tricks they've applauded in the past are now used on them.

Possibly the most comical aspect of Novak's piece is how he has to disparage a significant number of Republicans too - the President is likely to override the legislation, but a veto-override is looking fairly likely at this time. And we all know that can't happen without Republican 'defectors'. Maybe all the rhetoric about socialized medicine is inaccurate hyperbole.

"Bet a lotta GI's wish they had that choice..."

They did. It's a volunteer military, remember.

Uncle Sam hasn't said, "I Want You!" for over three decades now.

I see the rufas and ignorant coward show with guest loon drindl has run off all the sensible bloggers again today, monopolizing the non-discussion for over two hours now.

good job losers. Not even the usual suspect Dems and liberal admiration society can even stand you any longer. Have a nice talk with the voices in your heads. this blog now has similar audience as Olbermann and CNN. the 11%ers - ignorant coward, rufas, drindl, loud and Dumb and NO ONE else.

and this the morning after a Dem debate.

I just watched one of the clips from the John Edwards MTV clips, and I just had an aha moment. I've been trying to figure out why Edwards has rubbed me the wrong way from the start of this campaign season. I finally realized that I CAN'T STAND listening to him speak. I realized that I need a break from southern drawls.

Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and Fred Thompson all came from the deep south, but their accents are certainly more subtle than G.W.'s or Edwards' who sound affected, and after 7 years of lightweight Bush, the accent has come to represent for me inexperience, lack of intellectual curiosity, holier than thou view attitudes, messianic complexes, & so forth. I know it's unfair to associate these with Edwards, but I personally need a break from presidents with southern or cowboy roots.

'Tom Daschle to Saddam Hussein

'Bruce continued: "And the intention is the same. The intention is to smear an individual without any basis in reality, without any fairness, in an attempt to make that person demonized so that they will not be listened to." She added: "It is a very serious dynamic. Now, the issues involved are almost irrelevant because the truth of the matter is, no matter what is said, no matter what is done, the Gestapo will find a way to move in some kind of element of demonization."

It's really extraordinary to me that the Swiftboat party, the party that compared an amputee vet to Osama bin Ladin, that compared Tom Daschle, that bashes Michael Moore and George Soros and Hillary and any other Democrat relentlessly, can say things like this. It's really down the rabbit hole stuff.

' The intention is to smear an individual without any basis in reality, without any fairness, in an attempt to make that person demonized so that they will not be listened to."

She understands the phenom very well, because this is ALL the republicans do any more. Latest victim -- MoveOn.

"because the truth of the matter is, no matter what is said, no matter what is done, the Gestapo will find a way to move in some kind of element of demonization."

Indeed.

'Sad that Dems would play politics this way, but I'm hardly surprised. '

Aah, I see. The new wackjob rightwing Meme of the Day [faithfully as always posted here by zouk] is that if Bill O-Reilly says something racist, and you point that out, you are a Gestapo. Makes perfect sense, doesn't it?

'Summary: On her blog, radio host Tammy Bruce asserted that Fox News host Bill O'Reilly has been under "increasing attacks ... by the [George] Soros Media Gestapo, Media Matters. Once again, the left, via MM, has resorted to their default position in attempting to demonizing [sic] someone, specifically by calling O'Reilly a racist." Bruce further asserted, "The left, Soros, and his political and media thugs, cannot withstand independent voices and they will work overtime to silence them. Let's make sure these new gestapos fail." In fact, Soros has never given money to Media Matters, either directly or through another organization.'

If you're in favor of this SCHIP bill, you're in favor of nationalized healthare (or as the righties call it, HillaryCare).

There are many legit reasons why one might vote against it, including reducing the deficit for one. However, the rule of thumb in DC is, if you have to explain your vote, you've already lost the fight.

Sad that Dems would play politics this way, but I'm hardly surprised. Read Novak's piece in today's WaPo for the non-Broder viewpoint.

'First daughter Jenna Bush tells ABC's Diane Sawyer that she understands why people might suggest that she and her sister should be fighting in her father's war in Iraq. But, she says, "I think there are many ways to serve your country. And I think ... what's most appropriate for me to do is to teach and represent our country in Latin America.'

Bet a lotta GI's wish they had that choice...

Bush: Our childrens don't need health insurance.

"Government isn't the solution," Ronald Reagan regularly intoned before coming to Washington. "Government is the problem." The Government, went his litany, was bloated with "waste, fraud and abuse," all of which desperately needed purging. His words proved prophetic, though not precisely in the way he intended: his Administration, from its very beginning, has been riddled from top to bottom with allegations of impropriety and corruption.

More than 100 members of the Reagan Administration have had ethical or legal charges leveled against them. That number is without precedent. While the Reagan Administration's missteps may not have been as flagrant as the Teapot Dome scandal or as pernicious as Watergate, they seem more general, more pervasive and somehow more ingrained than those of any previous Administration. During other presidencies, scandals such as Watergate seemed to multiply from a single cancer; the Reagan Administration, however, appears to have suffered a breakdown of the immune system, opening the way to all kinds of ethical and moral infections.

A new poll from Rasmussen puts a crimp in the argument that Hillary is unelectable in a national general election, finding that she enjoys a sizable national lead over Rudy:

Clinton 48%
Giuliani 43%

She fares even better against Fred Thompson:

Clinton 48%
Thompson 41%

Broder gets the key dynamic right. And this is one reason there is an as-yet-unrevealed though in many ways profound antipathy for President Bush among many congressional Republicans. He's not running again. And he couldn't care less how much he damages his party over the next 18 months. Often political leaders face a choice -- stand for principle and possibly have a strong political issue at the next election or achieve some substantive accomplishment. Here the Dems appear to have every likelihood of achieving both. They'll probably get SCHIP and while also having the president inflict what may turn out to be a fatal political wound on a number of House Republicans. He'll bring them down in the noble cause of keeping lower and middle income kids from getting health care.

Currently on the Post website

Bush Signs College Aid Bill:
Legislation designed to make college affordable for students from poor and middle-class families.

Now all the childrens can learn.

Was this left over from the Republican 109th Congress?

What about my finally. i misspelled that one to. Don't you want to point that out alos. To bad you authoritarians don't have any red pens on this blog huh. Then you really could feel better about yourself HAHAHAHAHAHA

The spectacle Tuesday of 151 House Republicans voting in lock step with the White House against expansion of the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) was one of the more remarkable sights of the year. Rarely do you see so many politicians putting their careers in jeopardy.

The bill they opposed, at the urging of President Bush, commands healthy majorities in both the House and Senate but is headed for a veto because Bush objects to expanding this form of safety net for the children of the working poor. He has staked out that ground on his own, ignoring or rejecting the pleas of conservative senators such as Chuck Grassley and Orrin Hatch, who helped shape the compromise that the House approved and that the Senate endorsed.

"Duh DUh Duh. Another one bites the dust.

Duh Duh DUh. Anothe rone botes the dust"

The less republcians in office, the better for the coutnry

"finaly. now let's get back to "one nation, under God, undivisable"."

I'd rather go back to

"one nation, indivisible."

Ka-ching! Add another one.

And the "can't see the wave coming" postings will become even more vitriolic.

Fleischer Callously Tells Dead Soldier's Mom 'There Are Going To Be A Lot More Mothers' Like You

Yesterday, Ari Fleischer, former White House Press Secretary and current board member of the White House front group Freedom's Watch, appeared on MSNBC to defend a recent ad showing an injured Iraq veteran saying "they attacked us, and they will again."

During the segment, host Norah O'Donnell showed Fleischer a video of a mother whose son was killed in Iraq. In the ad, the mother states:

Ari Fleischer helped to deliver this country to the war in Iraq through a campaign of ignorance, negligence, and arrogance. Since then, we've heard the sad truth. ... And the weapons of mass destruction? My son Sherwood died protecting the Iraq Survey Group while they looked for the weapons.

Rep. Terry Everett (R-Ala.) announced Wednesday that he will not seek re-election in 2008. The eight-term lawmaker posted a statement on his Web site that said he reached the difficult decision not to run again over the weekend.

this offeneds me, as a former soldier. Gop, since only you can cnsure those that offend you can you please do something abouthtis smear merchant. While your at it please censure Fox and Hannity.

"Limbaugh: Service members who support U.S. withdrawal are "phony soldiers"
During the September 26 broadcast of his nationally syndicated radio show, Rush Limbaugh called service members who advocate U.S. withdrawal from Iraq "phony soldiers." Limbaugh has denounced as "contemptible" and "indecent" MoveOn.org's much-discussed ad -- titled "General Petraeus or General Betray Us?" -- critical of Gen. David Petraeus, but has repeatedly attacked the patriotism of those with whom he disagrees. Read more"

Sen Edwards: We have in use today, a zero-emission energy that could provide electricity for millions more homes and businesses than it currently does. Yet it has been over 25 years since a nuclear-power plant has been constructed. The barriers to nuclear energy are political not technological. We've let the fears of 30 years ago, and an endless political squabble over the storage of nuclear spent fuel make it virtually impossible to build a single new plant that produces a form of energy that is safe and non-polluting.

If France can produce 80-percent of its electricity with nuclear power, why can't we?

Is France a more secure, advanced, and innovative country than we are? Are France's scientists and entrepreneurs more capable than we are?

No one is posting today anyway

"Why Is Bill O'Reilly Still On The Air?
by hilzoy

As if the loofahs and felafel weren't bad enough, Bill O'Reilly has now said this:

"O'REILLY: You know, I was up in Harlem a few weeks ago, and I actually had dinner with Al Sharpton, who is a very, very interesting guy. And he comes on The Factor a lot, and then I treated him to dinner, because he's made himself available to us, and I felt that I wanted to take him up there. And we went to Sylvia's, a very famous restaurant in Harlem. I had a great time, and all the people up there are tremendously respectful. They all watch The Factor. You know, when Sharpton and I walked in, it was like a big commotion and everything, but everybody was very nice.

And I couldn't get over the fact that there was no difference between Sylvia's restaurant and any other restaurant in New York City. I mean, it was exactly the same, even though it's run by blacks, primarily black patronship. It was the same, and that's really what this society's all about now here in the U.S.A. There's no difference. There's no difference. There may be a cultural entertainment -- people may gravitate toward different cultural entertainment, but you go down to Little Italy, and you're gonna have that. It has nothing to do with the color of anybody's skin. (...)

O'REILLY: That's right. That's right. There wasn't one person in Sylvia's who was screaming, "M-Fer, I want more iced tea."

WILLIAMS: Please --

O'REILLY: You know, I mean, everybody was -- it was like going into an Italian restaurant in an all-white suburb in the sense of people were sitting there, and they were ordering and having fun. And there wasn't any kind of craziness at all."

If it was wrong for Don Imus to refer to the Rutgers basketball team as 'nappy-headed hos', and it was, and if MSNBC rightly decided that they had to drop him, then why on earth does Bill O'Reilly still have a job? Will there be any outrage at the idea that he finds it surprising -- so surprising that he "couldn't get over it", and had to go on and on about it on the radio -- that blacks who go to nice restaurants just sit around having a good time like anyone else, rather than "screaming, "M-Fer, I want more iced tea""?

Honestly, what more would it take to get people outraged? Does he have to express surprise that Sylvia's goes to the trouble of printing prices on the menu, instead of expecting all their black customers to rob them at gunpoint? Or that the customers use silverware, rather than eating with their fingers? Or that Sylvia's doesn't put brightly colored crack pipes next to the dessert spoons? Seriously: what does a guy have to do to get fired around here?

"

http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2007/09/why-is-bill-ore.html

I thought it was a good analogy

"So if I, for instance, call you a cow. Then you get angry. I tell you cows are great. Cows do a lot of people good. we eat cows, we have them as pets. One guy I know says he doesn't mind being called a cow. Does that mean that you do not have the right to be offended that I called you a cow? No. you have the right to be offended. If I worked at wendy's and called you a cow, you might try and get me fired from my job, no? Same principle. I don't get how you people do not grasp it."

the rpoblem is not the cow. The problem is me calling proud a cow for whatever reason i choose. My point being. If I worked at Longs, let's say, and I personally attack someone. hey have the right ot get angry. I, the name caller, cannot tell you why YOU CANNOT BE ANGRY AT ME. That is thought police gop tricks. Set the rules, which you are never going to follow, and hope the people you paided to watch your back do. Bill O'Rieelly has a lot of appologists. Mat tLAuer was blaming the whole thing on mediamatters today. I'm sory, I don't get that arguement.

"O'Reilly why did you say this this and this."

"Where did you hear that"

Don't get it at all. I just pray the rest of america is not as stupid as the dittohead followers.

Just because you hate cows doesn't mean all the cows are racist.

finaly. now let's get back to "one nation, under God, undivisable". If the gop would hold their people to the same starard they hold everyone else we would be in the deep water we are in now.

"BREAKING: Two more provisions of Patriot Act struck down (UPDATED with video)
By: bluegal @ 8:49 AM - PDT

Download (421) | Play (397) Download (219) | Play (201)

And we have lots to celebrate because a federal judge cited a provision of a little-used document known as "The Bill of Rights."

Wapo: A federal judge in Oregon ruled Wednesday that two provisions of the USA Patriot Act are unconstitutional, marking the second time in as many weeks that the anti-terrorism law has come under attack in the courts. ...Judge Ann Aiken ruled that the Patriot Act violates the Constitution because it "permits the executive branch of government to conduct surveillance and searches of American citizens without satisfying the probable cause requirements of the Fourth Amendment." Read more...

"

www.crroksandliars.com

"rufus -Beacuse you seem more level-headed today, "

I got no sleep last night. I was up with that new baby boy at 3. When I am sleepy I am less passionate

So please forgive my misspelled words and my soft disposition :)

The Association of British Insurers has called on governments to "stem ominous weather related trends" by cutting carbon emissions. U.S.-based companies AIG and Marsh -- respectively, the largest insurer and broker -- have joined with other corporate leaders to urge Congress to reduce U.S. greenhouse gas emissions 60 to 80 percent by mid-century. AIG's policy statement on climate change "recognizes the scientific consensus that climate change is a reality and is likely in large part the result of human activities that have led to increasing concentrations of greenhouse gases in the earth's atmosphere."

Marsh issued a similar statement, as did European insurance giants Swiss Re, Munich Re and Allianz. The chief research officer of Risk Management Solutions, an industry risk forecaster, responded to an April report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change by announcing that climate change is already increasing "financial losses from extreme weather catastrophes." A.M. Best, the historical voice of insurance, began a series in the August edition of Best's Review on the risks, regulatory issues and economic impact of climate change.

Montana is burning again. This summer, some of the nation's worst wildfires incinerated homes, barns and fences, killing livestock and forcing families to evacuate. Wildfires have increased fourfold since the 1980s, and they are bigger and harder to contain because of earlier-arriving springs and hotter, bone-dry summers. Last year's fires broke records; this year could be worse. As courageous firefighters beat back the flames, insurance companies continue to pay out billions for wildfire losses across the West.

Meanwhile, Florida is bracing for the duration of the hurricane season even as rebuilding continues from the eight hurricanes that crisscrossed the Sunshine State in 2004 and 2005. Storms grow ever more intense: Since the 1970s, the number intensifying to Category 4 or 5 hurricanes has almost doubled, costing insurers tens of billions of dollars.

A wildfire burns at the base of Crown Butte in Simms, Mont., this month. (By Robin Loznak -- Great Falls Tribune Via Associated Press)

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Montana and Florida are not the only states suffering huge insurance losses from natural disasters. Increasingly destructive weather -- including heat waves, hurricanes, typhoons, tornadoes, floods, wildfires, hailstorms and drought -- accounted for 88 percent of all property losses paid by insurers from 1980 through 2005. Seven of the 10 most expensive catastrophes for the U.S. property and casualty industry happened between 2001 and 2005.

Ten years ago, Peter Levene, chairman of Lloyds of London, was skeptical about global warming theories, but no longer. He believes carbon emissions caused by human activity are warming the Earth and causing severe weather-related events. "At Lloyds, we feel the effects of extreme weather more than most," he said in a March speech. "We don't just live with risk -- we have to pick up the pieces afterwards." Lloyds predicts that the United States will be hit by a hurricane causing $100 billion worth of damage, more than double that of Katrina. Industry analysts estimate that such an event would bankrupt as many as 40 insurers.

Lloyd's has warned: "The insurance industry must start actively adjusting in response to greenhouse gas trends if it is to survive."

"rufus -Beacuse you seem more level-headed today, I will respond. Although I'm currently a transplanted northern-midwesterner, I have lived in the South and other areas for years and am glad to have raised my children there because the population is more diverse and, believe it or not, less racist. "

More about yourself? Or willaims. How does that change the fact that people are offened by these racially offensive statements? I don't get your arguement at all.

So if I, for instance, call you a cow. Then you get angry. I tell you cows are great. Cows do a lot of people. we eat cows, we have them as pets. One guy I know says he doesn't mind being called a cow. Does that mean that you do not have the right to be offended that I called you a cow? No. you have the right to be offened. If I worked at wendy's and called you a cow, you might try and get me fired from my job, no? Same principle. I don't get how you people do not grasp it.

One more point on the south. As I've said here. I lived in New Orleans in 2000. Great city great people. But it is segragated. For you to say their is less racism is outragous. The african-americans have their own clubs, whote don't go to and vice versa. It is equal but seperate. That to me is racism, to other maybe not. Bu tI say a bar near my house flyin a confederate flag. Blacks were walking by like it was nothing. If that was in the bay area and a black saw this it would be on. so don't patronize me. you are no better than me. To me, like me to you, you are actually worse than me. FYI. your patronization has little effect on a man with no ego :)

'you are the gestapo (stazi or KGB if you prefer) because you and your fellow travellers use the same tactics - smear, attack, ignoring of facts, intimidation, shouting down, emotionalism, appeal to stereotypes and the worst in people, ignoring of any contrary evidence, etc. you are so power hungry you will slander good people to acheive your goals and believe your own side has some sort of moral imperative, which is exactly opposite of reality. '

" It is not a race, it is a religion."

Zouk shows his ignorance once again. Reserch buddy. Look it up. It is both a religon and a race. I can choose to be a jew if I follow their religous laws and read their jewish holy books (torah). Or a man/woman can be born of jewish heritage. You are a joke zouk. Are you sure your not a lib, doing my work for me marginalziing the gop with statements like yours?

rufus -Beacuse you seem more level-headed today, I will respond. Although I'm currently a transplanted northern-midwesterner, I have lived in the South and other areas for years and am glad to have raised my children there because the population is more diverse and, believe it or not, less racist.

For the most part I think that behavior is more of a class issue than a color issue. In my opinion, ignorance is as frustrating as outright racism.

Some people say the stupidest things sometimes -- comments not meant to be offensive, but they are, because they are based on stereotype and not experience. Maybe O'Reilly needs to visit "the ATL" more often.

if anyone here can tell me how media matters lied once,ONCE I'll buy you a house. Go to there site:

http://mediamatters.org/

And come back here and tell me one "smear" or lie. I'll tell you right now, you will not be able to do that. Mediamatters reapeats their words back to them, including CC. So good hunting. You lack of responses will show all independant thinkers you people are lying/propogandists and sel-outs to your nation. History will not forget you treachery, gop. It didn't with nixon. you may have hide the evidence for 30 years. But it all comes to light eventually. Hey rpoud. What did your people's survielance and spying undercover abou tMArtin Luther King? What about John lennon? What did you learn from mccarthyism? Did you spying on americans and commiting felonies in the name of the country help or hurt your cause. Like today all you can do is bury the truth. It all comes out eventually. You people are traitorsa and sell-outs. They sell-out eventually. Bush and cheaney will go done worse than nixon. The more americans learn the more they will be against the gop. But you gop a lot of willfully ignorant cow folk whoo know nothing but what you tell them. They can;t hide in your cave forever. American society will not allow you people to destroy the nation anymore. 08 will finally show you this. Then you will believe me. Or not

"Olbermann is so desperate for ratings he has been stalking O"Reilly for months. you would too if you had 1/10 of the audience. Cnn has become a historical interest story, no longer bothering to leave the blogosphere for its stories."

Right. that is liek O'rEIlly's arguments. People asked him why he said this or that. He says, "Where did you hear that from".

HAHAHAHHA.

the gop's straw man was moveon last week. This week it's mediamatters for" Smearing him". He faisl to mention mediamatters merely rpints what he says. OOOHOH. What a smear. MEdiamatters repeats his lies attack sn propoganda back to him. How is that an attack/smear?

you people are funny. By the poll numbers people are laughing at you gop. Your willful ignorance is a world wide joke. you people are lost sheep. Your fear and hate will never be satisfied. All the liberals gone allthe mxicans and blacks gone would not fix the problems inside you. You have problems gop members. It is in you, not everybody else. Stop pointing the finger and introspect.

"Now I will go back to ignoring you. You are one sick puppy."

Please do this time.

considering every post today from you has been a rant against zouk, "going back" to ignoring sounds like your typical detachment from reality.

you are the gestapo (stazi or KGB if you prefer) because you and your fellow travellers use the same tactics - smear, attack, ignoring of facts, intimidation, shouting down, emotionalism, appeal to stereotypes and the worst in people, ignoring of any contrary evidence, etc. you are so power hungry you will slander good people to acheive your goals and believe your own side has some sort of moral imperative, which is exactly opposite of reality. Yes, you are the Liberal Gestapo. you and the other 11% ers. the rest of the Dem party is going to shed you, hillary is already moving in that direction.

Being Jewish comes down on the mother's side. you can't be half jewish. If your mother is jewish, you are jewish, if not, you are not. It is not a race, it is a religion. sounding this ignorant appeal for sympathy and justification is perfectly in line with your emotionalism. we are not talking about being jewish, but you sense some sort of advantage if you can position yourself as a victim here. cowardly and obtuse as usual.

the Libs just love to pull the "concentration camp card" even when advocating for Isreal to surrender and die. they love to pull the slavery card whenever race comes up, as if there are no whites out there with a valid opinion. this is called censorship and is right in line with the other Liberal Gestapo activities.

It is why you 11%ers are now the butt of so many jokes.

"Look for more hallow insults with no offering of anything substantial." - Zoukmadinejad

Legitimate historians would consider presenting facts substantial. What does the RNC consider that? Scary?

bsimon: If you read the transcript, the ice tea line is where williams clearly starts to think to himself, "Whoa, this guy is nuttier than a s-house rat."

Olbermann is so desperate for ratings he has been stalking O"Reilly for months. you would too if you had 1/10 of the audience. Cnn has become a historical interest story, no longer bothering to leave the blogosphere for its stories.

Overall, the liberal approach to news and commentary has been shown to be lacking in appeal. Perhaps the market is saturated with liberal moonbats spewing talking points with no basis in reality. Expect them to get even kookier before the ultimate demise of them entirely.

Even soros can't prop up CNN, mooooveon, MSNBC, NBC, NYT all at once indefinately with advertisers not willing to pay for no audience. Meanwhile fox has 14 of 15 top rated shows on cable. something is amiss in Liberal land.

Yes, I'm a Gestapo. I go into people's houses, drag them out by the hair, throw them into a cattle car and gas them. Then I make lamphades out of their skin.

Zouk, my daughter is half Jewish. I have family pictures of my husband's relatives who were burned at Auschwitz. Do you have any idea how deranged and disgusting you are? How much your obsessive hatred of Democrats has twisted your mind?

Now I will go back to ignoring you. You are one sick puppy.

Report Says Fixes Slow To Come at Walter Reed
By Steve Vogel, Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, September 27, 2007; Page A01

More than half a year after disclosures of systemic problems at Walter Reed Army Medical Center and other military hospitals, the Pentagon's promised fixes are threatened by staff shortages and uncertainty about how best to improve long-term care for wounded troops, according to a congressional report issued yesterday.

Army units developed to shepherd recovering soldiers lack enough nurses and social workers, and proposals to streamline the military's disability evaluation system and to provide "recovery coordinators" are behind schedule, according to the Government Accountability Office report.

Members of a congressional oversight committee, discussing the report at a hearing yesterday, said the effort to reform the medical bureaucracy has itself become mired in bureaucracy.

"After so many promises but so little progress, we need to see more concrete results," said Rep. Thomas M. Davis III (Va.), the ranking Republican on the panel. His staff hears "appalling stories" every week from soldiers dealing with the disability process, he said, adding that "they're trapped in a system they don't understand and that doesn't understand them."

Where was Tom's indignation when he was Chairman of the committee, when all of the problems were developing and became institutionalized.

Tom "The Chameleon" Davis. No wonder Zouk loves him.

Whatever you say old man. Fortunatly your (and your media) propoganda is all for not. The tape is out there. People will be offened or not. No amount of paid peanut gallery statements like your will change that. Because you/and jaun williams say it is not a racist statemetn it doesn't make it so. Fortunatly people have the choice to make their own mind up. As much as you people hate that. As much as republcians try and make the rules. But O'REIlly (a white man) cannot make the rules on what balcks find offensive. No matter what a paid propogandist like willaims says.

proudtobeGOP writes
"the discussion of any matter involving race by a white person does not make it "racist"."

Agreed. But in this instance, it certainly makes one wonder on what Mr O'Reilly bases his stereotypes. The arugment is that he wasn't stereotyping blacks, but that he was stereotyping white's stereotypes of blacks. So the question to me is, why does he think that white's think black's go to 'black' restaurants and holler "where's the M-Fing ice TEA?"

"Do not speak to fools, they scorn the wisdom of your words"

Nas.

Peace fascists. You silence is deafening to independant thinkers. Cowards. Traitor fascists Your party is don for a generation. If the d's follow yoou down that path, that is their business.

If this is a case more parties will eliminate both current parties in the next cycle. All the power they think they have can be taken in 5 years. THIS WAS OUR, American citizens and voters, SAFEGUARD AGAINST WHAT HAS BEFALLEN OUR NATION. CONGRESS WAS GIVEN SAFEGUARDS AGAISNT AN OPPRESIVE PRESIDENT. THE VOTES WERE GIVEN SAFEGUARDS AGAISNT AN OPPRESIVE GOVERNMENT. If the d's follow the r's lead, WE will test out these powers. Remember what I told you people. Because you are going to watch it get enacted after hillary leads us through four more years or elementary school kid bickering and gotcha poltiics.

PEACE

ONE WORLD ONE PEOPLE ONE GOD

Juan Williams defended O'Reilly: "It had nothing to do with racist ranting by anybody except these idiots at CNN."

O'Reilly's overall theme was that many whites have very little real experience with black people. As a result, their views of Afr- Americans are clouded by negative perceptions that come from mainstream media consumption.

Does O'Reilly share some of that ignorance? Perhaps, especially when his words are improperly isolated.

HANOVER, New Hampshire -- It's a dead heat in New Hampshire, according to our new poll of likely New Hampshire Republican primary voters. Mitt Romney's lead in the battle for the GOP presidential nomination in the all important Granite State has evaporated, according to the results of a CNN/WMUR poll conducted by the University of New Hampshire.

Edwards has talked about a 50-state campaign and even visited my town of Missoula, Montana. Ask him how he might run a 50-state campaign if he is the nominee.

according to drindl, who is shall we say "fact-challenged", this is "hysterically denounces all Democrats"

Posted by zouk:

1. hillary will not answer a question that has not been pre-tested by polling or passed through "her husband" for approval. If she gets a really hard question she cackles loudly, then turns snippy and ferocious. good thing there are no ashtrays within reach.

2. Obama doesn't have an answer for anything other then, let's all get along.\

3. Edwards has a very polished trial lawyer presence, but his attitudes are so lefty, he doesn't stand a chance. He doesn't want to impress his own values on his own kids, instead preferring to allow the state to teach them about all sorts of progressive ideas at a very young age. This is the kind of parenting the left seeks.

3, Biden sounds sane and realistic, but the left voters will reject him.

In drindl's world, anything that is not glowing and supine to all things Liberal, is hysterical and insane. It is pointless to discuss the debate with her or to engage her in anything but extreme emotionalism.

she and the rest of the Liberal Gestapo will accept no facts on the ground, no reality intrusion on the delusions.

do any of you non 11% ers dispute what I printed above? will you defend Hillary, question Obama, be skeptical of Edwards, reward biden? Or will you just bash Bush and zouk all day long instead? will you continue to try and censor any voices of reason which intrude on your rigid phobias? will you continue to lose the battle of ratings with Fox et al by the abject revulsion to balance and fairness and objectivity?

I made the cardinal mistake of directly adressing these moonbats today. we all know where that leads with the Liberal Gestapo. you will see that they refuse to take on any actual issues, instead trading in smear and insult.

Please ask Senator Edwards,

5 years ago, you co-sponsored the legislation that led us into the Iraq War. While you have amidited that you were wrong, how can we trust you that you will not make that kind of mistake again?

Does it matter to the the owner of

Does it matter to you?

Of curse not. Only your facism and propoganda matter. The facts never matter to you hypocrites. He is just trying to gin up publicity. He is playing with race. There is no way o'reilly is this dumb. He's after ratings. I hope it lows up in his face and he takes the imus route. But he will never do it willingly. He makes millions lying to the elderly and selling out his country for profit to stop.

The sorry old man doesn't realize he can't take all taht money with him. How will histroy record these people? I think the histroy books will read tham all as traitors to the country. Of course you and o'reilly would say the same about me. For loving what my country was, for respecting he laws the country was founded on(constitution), and for want the armed forces I served to be a force of good, rather than a force for greed and tyranny.

I have german ancestry. I have to paying for the, even through my family was living in amercia and were amish, and no part of war. the checks you people are writing proud AMERICANS have to pay for. Think about the future.

ONE WORLD ONE PEOPLE

who pays Juan willaims checks proud? Conflict of interest?

Without O'RIelly does fox stay on the air? Willaims is a puppet and a black face. Just because he is not offened, means nothing. He get's paid millions by these people. Of course he will defend them.

Does it matter to the the owner of the restaurant said it was one of the most racisl insensitive statements she has ever heard. What about the million sof other people that are offened by o'reillyy's comments. doe sjaun willaims and black republcians counter-balance the millions of us that ARE offened. No. Jaun willaiims is a puppet. You defense using that is one of the funniest defenses yet. Thansk for giving me a laugh.

I honestly do wonder if he is posting from some sort of institution.

Posted by: drindl | September 27, 2007 12:54 PM

drindl's contribution for today. Well thought out for her.

Godwin's Law applies especially to inappropriate, inordinate, or hyperbolic comparisons of other situations (or one's opponent) with Hitler or Nazis or their actions.

in re " Bill O'Reilly -- his amazement that black folks can dine politely at a restaurant"

Loudon - You ought to check the transcript...Bill O was speaking with none other than Juan Williams when this was said in reference to the fact that most Americans tend to believe what they often see on tv (BET, MTV, etc) that all Afr. Americans act like gangstas and thugs. Juan Willimas agreed with his comments, by the way.

He could have said it better, but then he's not prone to worry about being p.c. I think the main defense of this entire commentary is that he was talking with a prominent and well-respected black guy who actually agreed with his assessment. Although other pundits like Eugene Robinson were quick to jump on it, the discussion of any matter involving race by a white person does not make it "racist".

Ask the Senator about his position on protecting America's borders (North and South).

"I just read the latest classic bit from GOP mouthpiece Bill O'Reilly -- his amazement that black folks can dine politely at a restaurant."

And they're "finally thinking for themselves", voter.

This is O'Reilly's Imus moment. The differance is he will not step down. The gop never can be held accountable, as the left is. Rosie, Imus, Churrhhill all silenced by o'reilly and hannity or making "insensitive" statements. I know he won't step down willingly and do what's best for the country. He's making millions dividing the nation and lying to the elderly for profit. At least we can show the gop hypocricy. At least we can show them for the racists and fascists they are. Who follows these people's is their business. All we cna do is marginalize the people destroying the nation and point them out for what they are.

They will never do what's best for the nation, never. When did choosing money/party over country NOT BE TREASON? I'm confused about my countries. The why's really really hurt. To bad the "war on terror" is not all on the republicans. To bad they don't fight the war on their own and take all teh casulties for their actions .Classsic gop. they make the rules, they write the checks. Normal average americans have to cash these checks for the gop. All the while the gop sits their and cashes in at americans expense. To me they are treasonous trraitor sell-outs. I'd be interested to see why what I think is wrong. How is trading money for ruining the nation not treason gop? How is Imus Rather and Rosie off the air but after 20 years and thousands murdered these people are still propogating. I'd like to hear you rdoublethink explanation from you zouk. It's funny to me. Your people's crazy justifications on why you do what you do

I just wanted to point out that by using the word Gestapo, zouk has lost today's debate. Godwin's Law.

Bye and thanks for playing!

zouk has really lost it now -- he seems to think the approval rating for Congress bears any relationship whatsoever to the voting in individual races. Hint, drooler, it doesn't. Most voters are perfectly happy with their own congressman and senators. And with more and more GOP incumbents cutting and running, that will probably translate into even big Dem majorities in '09.

I don't know what I have done, Mark A, to incite the ire of this deranged individual, but he seems to be projecting his own habits on others, a practice I have noticed is common among self-identified 'conservatives,' as lylepink and others, many of them psychiatric professionals, have noted.

He hysterically denounces all Democrats, then in the same sentence accuses them of negativity! I really have never seen a worse case of cognitive dissonance, or a more serious break from objective reality.

I honestly do wonder if he is posting from some sort of institution.

Thank you poster, for clearing up that bit of historical revisionism. Reagan, like Bush, broke our laws constantly. The whole idea of R's and law and order is a joke.

Posted by: Sam | September 27, 2007 12:40 PM

Sorry, we're not as stupid as republicans.

Posted by: | September 27, 2007 12:42 PM

As if you had ever offered anything of substance in your wasted life...

Posted by: Judy K. | September 27, 2007 12:43 PM

The Liberal Gestapo at work today. Look for more hallow insults with no offering of anything substantial.

they could defend the Dem candidates positions from last nights debate, but that would involve something totally out of character for them. Watch.

Mark in austin - as you correctly surmised this is the ignorant coward attempting to paint me in an unfavorable light. He is so devoid of anything positive to contribute, he can only post negativity and lies, mostly stolen from other writers or posted under false names. this clearly demonstrates the desperation and shallowness of the 11% - ers views. they can't debate on facts and actual positions so they invent them to stage an easy victory. This is the method of the Liberal Gestapo. but only the true believers like drindl falls for it. she is prepared and willing to accept anything that refelects poorly on conservatives, yet will not countenence anything difficult with the left. Most thinking posters, such as yourself, see right through this moronic game.

I didn't see that particular back and forth but can assure you that ignorant coward and drindl are not in possession of a solid set of facts on most issues, particularly with my own personal views of just about anything. Thanks you for remaining skeptical in the face of this loony onslaught.

'I see the usual Lib clowns have elected to attack zouk all day long and never offer anything of actual substance.'

As if you had ever offered anything of substance in your wasted life...

Every post you put up, zouk, no matter what you sign it with, is oozing with the same hatred, the same smears, the same obssession with hating Democrats. It's very easy to see almost every negative post is from you -- they're all the same.

Sorry, we're not as stupid as republicans.

'If Reagan and his staff were involved in the hostage release process it was a violation of U.S. law, possibly even treason. Maybe they were involved doing it as a dress rehearsal for Iran-Contra six years later. You can find all of the facts by searching on Reagan Administration - Iran - Pardons.'

Thank you poster, for clearing up that bit of historical revisionism. Reagan, like Bush, broke our laws constantly. The whole idea of R's and law and order is a joke.

I see the usual Lib clowns have elected to attack zouk all day long and never offer anything of actual substance.

and that is why the Lib brand is sinking so fast. there are 11% of you whack-jobs left now. the 11% of deadenders that support this congress, that watch CNN and Olbermann, that think mooooveon is neat.

the Liberal Gestapo can attack me all day long. It doesn't advance your cause and reveals to the entire world your precise agenda - furthering your decline.

I pointed out facts from the Dem debate which are extremely uncomfortable when examined in the light of day. The Lib gestapo can't handle the truth so they go after personalities. all the better to remain in denial.

I notice it is the same set of rabid moonbats that operate this way - the 11% of committed (perhaps should be committed) wackos in a nutshell.

they understand no economics, no morality, no truthfulness, no fairness. they are the Liberal Gestapo - or you could also call them copperheads if you have a sense of history.

Look for them to stage personal attacks all day and ignore the facts presented. they have no facts to rely upon to augment their viciousness.

they will atrtribute any contrary posts on this site to a single individual, because they don't know anyone who doesn't agree with their twisted view of the world in which america is evil, profit is bad, taxes are great, leaders take polls to decide and clintons are truthful.

I just read the latest classic bit from GOP mouthpiece Bill O'Reilly -- his amazement that black folks can dine politely at a restaurant.

Picking up on drindl's criticism of KOZ at 12:22P:

KOZ, did you really suggest that you do not care about the lives of our servicemen in Iraq and that this is what your "party" teaches you? I defended you the other day saying that I thought the poster who made that remark was not really you. drindl said it was consistent with your other posts.

Say it ain't so.

'Sen. Edwards, while you have a comprehensive health plan to offer, it does not seem to address the shortcomings of the employer-based model.'

This is quite true --especially since the number of employers providing any sort of health care is shrinking every year -- it's down to less than 60% now. We really must come up with a new model. I know my health insurance for my family, if I was paying the full market rate, would be over $15,000 a year. And that's even including the deducibles, exclusions, partial payments, co-payments, etc. And it's not a fancy policy.

What middle-class families can afford this?

Mr. Edwards. Over the last 30 years the right in this country has built a powerful propoganda machine. This machine lies spins and discredits daily for profit. Recently the Senate voted to condemn the liberal group Moveon, while not denouncing anything from the other side. What can we do to restore poltical balance in the media? How does moveon get censured, yet Fox "News"/Rush Limbaugh/Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly still on the air? how are they not censured DAILY? What are you going to do to hold the hypocrites accoutable for what they do and say? We are a self-government. In a self-government we need all the real news we can get and none of the fake. What are you going to do to ensure that the practice of "news" by paid advertisers (like big drug big oil and defense contractors), is labeled for what it is. Propoganda and lies for profit, rather than news.

It gets even better Loudon -- zoukie says the Dem brand is 'sinking' -- even as the Dems have brought in approximately 10 times as much as Republicans, and the RNC is totally broke. His frantic postings of delusional rants just keep getting further out there -- I guess he's cracking under the strainof knowing our next president and Congress will be solidly Democratic.

He would almost be pitiful, if he wasn't so vile and contemptable.

Throughout the debate, Sen. Clinton relied on her now-standard laugh/cackle when asked questions she didn't like, which was most questions. But she wasn't laughing when she learned that she had been hit with the gotcha question of the night, and perhaps of the campaign to this point.

The 'liberal Gestapo' -- these nutjob wack wingers are always whining about how 'negative' and 'angry' liberals are -- then look at what zouk posts at11:29, 11:37, 11:48, 11:49, 12:03, 12:05 nd 12:07 --

What a vicious slimebag. why do they allow him on a board like this? Other boards have rules against trolls and vicious smears and mindless slime.

'Democrats should run Mahmoud Ahmadinejad for president. '

zouk is here right on time with his predictable slime bucket...

Well, Truth, at least he did not have to hold a fundraiser in Kazakhstan.

But seriously, that huge donation from Fortress "employees" is the kind of concentration of mass that in Texas politics would put an elected official in thrall to the donor. It is worth reporting.

The typical journalist's question to Edwards about it would be too easily answered.

However, if one knew the specific legislative agenda of Fortress, one could string a series of innocent questions about each Fortress agenda item. If Edwards agreed with the agenda items, no further questions would be necessary. If he claimed to disagree with them, then there would be fruit to pick. But outside a courtroom the interrogator seldom has the time or the leverage to develop a serious line and pursue the witness.

Bill Clinton's Presidential Decisions "Stand the Test of Time" [Kathryn Jean Lopez]

When Hillary said that tonight during the debate, I actually pictured the (delightful) movie, Win a Date with Tad Hamilton. Kate Bosworth's character, practicing in front of a mirror before her date with the famous movie star Tad Hamilton, says again and again, with different facial expressions and emphasis, "Your films will stand the test of time." "Your FILMS will STAND the test of time."

You know Hillary must have her moods. She has to stand in front of a mirror and say, "his decisions will stand the test of time." In a lamp-shade throwing mood, it's : "the blue dress will stand the test of time." Or: "the blue dress could have been at the FREAKING SMITHSONIAN."

"His decisions will stand the test of time. The TEST of TIME" (said with gritted teeth).

what we learned from the Debate.
1. hillary will not answer a question that has not been pre-tested by polling or passed through "her husband" for approval. If she gets a really hard question she cackles loudly, then turns snippy and ferocious. good thing there are no ashtrays within reach.

2. Obama doesn't have an answer for anything other then, let's all get along.\

3. Edwards has a very polished trial lawyer presence, but his attitudes are so lefty, he doesn't stand a chance. He doesn't want to impress his own values on his own kids, instead preferring to allow the state to teach them about all sorts of progressive ideas at a very young age. This is the kind of parenting the left seeks.

3, Biden sounds sane and realistic, but the left voters will reject him.

4. Kucinich and Gravel are total kooks.

the Dem platform is now clearly for surrender in Iraq, albeit slowly enough to not notice, capitulation to Iran, all the while talking, talking. giant government health care forced on you. No movement at all on social security, perhaps a large tax increase if the polls support it. no action at all on failing public education. count on massive tax increases across the board, unless you don't pay taxes.

the choice in the next election is clear. Nanny state, european regulations of just about everything or individual american style ownership of your life.

"Jimmy Carter approach to Iran - YAK, yak, yak. Result 400+ days of nothing.

Reagan approach to Iran - intimidation, result - release in one day" - Zoukmadinejad

It is time for you to retire this lie, Zoukmadinejad. Either your private school madrassa failed to teach you the historical facts correctly, or your Creative Writing class failed to teach you that fiction should be labeled as fiction.

The hostages were sitting on a plane on a runway in Tehran when Reagan was sworn in as President. As soon as Tehran air trafic control confirmed that the oath was taken, clearance for takeoff was given.

If Reagan and his staff were involved in the hostage release process it was a violation of U.S. law, possibly even treason. Maybe they were involved doing it as a dress rehearsal for Iran-Contra six years later. You can find all of the facts by searching on Reagan Administration - Iran - Pardons.

Mr Edwards,

You are young, from the geographic region that has given us the last three Democratic presidents, and possessed of communication skills that have won you a genuine base.

On the other hand, the section of your resume headed 'Politics' is noticeably thin, especially compared to your achievements in private life.

From a strictly tactical perspective, would it not make sense to aim for a governorship or another turn in Congress, before submitting yourself for the highest office?

The relationship between Fortress Investment Group and Edwards? It is a New York-based firm known maily for its hedge funds... loosely regulated investments designed for the wealthy. Fortress was the first hedge fund to go public.

While Edwards decries such things as offshore tax shelters, the Fortress hedge funds are incorporated in the Cayman Islands "enabling its partners and foreign investors to defer or avoid paying U.S. taxes."

Edwards was hired as a "consultant" and neither he nor the firm will say what he did.

However, Edwards raised $167,460 for his presidential campaign in contributions from Fortress employees.... his largest source of support from a single company.

The $1.4 trillion hedge fund industry has campaigned to fend off additional federal regulations and has becme increasingly generous in campaign donations.