"But, with the Bhutto's death and the broader implications of the fight against terrorism worldwide likely to dominate the coverage for the next day or two (at a minimum), Giuliani immediately becomes relevant again."

This is an unfounded conclusion that has no basis in fact - except for people who are brain-dead. Rudy has absolutely no foreign policy knowledge or experience - and he did nothing to prevent terrorist attacks - he made the devastation of the one we got even worse by sole sourcing defective radios for the NYFF; he has no good judgment; he put the command center at the WTC after it had been attacked. The guy is a mafia-connected yo-yo egomaniac who would be yet another disaster for this country.

Any answer will not do anymore dave. People want real answers, now and in the future. Any old propognada will not do anymore. an uncahllenged statement will no longer do. We are a nation of and by the people. you can't say this is the way it is and deal with it. this is america. You may have your reasons. But bush is not king. if the american people are not with him, then the country isn't. You people forget we are not a monarchy. Put it all on the table I say.

Your president, his choice not ours, has been a disaster. Would you for once acknowledge reality?

GordonsGirl - "THIS is the question that must be answered."
OK. Because there are people that believe that the US can chew gum and walk at the same time. Because defeating al-Qaeda and the like minded philosophies of the backwards ME requires a multipronged approach. One prong is to go after al-Qaeda where ever they currently are and are heading - and they are in Iraq. Waterboarding and other hard interrogations, secret CIA prisons, Gitmo, wiretapping, Patriot act are the way the adminstration has chosen to go after al-Qaeda. You may not agree with those methods but only a person that has had their head in the sand thinks that the US has been ignoring al-Qaeda for six years. A second prong is to try to bring about change in the region and try to get them to see the value in democracy, freedom and liberty. Those are not the only prongs but they are the main two and they should answer your question.

This HELPS Giuliani and Clinton? Only because no one in the media, debates or public has dared ask them:

"Why did you support Pres. Bush's decision to forego his focus on bringing al Qaeda to justice, instead turning tail into Iraq to depose Saddam Hussein?"

THIS is the question that must be answered. We've been virtually ignoring al Qaeda for nearly half a decade. Clinton and Giuliani both need to specifically answer their support for Bush's fateful decision.

"Interestingly, the real loser isn't mentioned here. The assassination seems to reflect the continuing failure of Bush administration (or should we say Cheney administration) foreign policy. The candidates, esp. the Republicans need to be clear where they stand vis a vis. the obvious policy and implementation failures of the current administration. Yet, Chris doesn't seem to recognize this.....

Posted by: thebuckguy | December 27, 2007 09:30 PM
"

well said. Somehow all terror helps the republcains. that's not a very good place to be. Think about it logically. TERROR ATTACKS HELP THE GOP. Are they in with the terrorists? Gas has doubled since bush has been in office.

The real countries hiding and helping terrorists, are bushes closest allies (pakistan and suadi a). It just so happens those are the two countires that attacked us then protected the killers.

I want to reneg on somethings I said here yesterday. Bhutto was being put in by the bush admin, or helped to. i had mocked somewho for that point yesterday. But he/she was right. I'm not sure if that makes it better or wrse for the bush/cheaney admin. I say worse.

You will get no acknowledgements or corrections from the gop and the zouk/rush/oreillys of the world. They don't do corrections or accountability.

Still, bush and his party of indebt to the terrorists. What would the gop be without the threat of terrorism? What else do they have as a party platform, other than terrorizing the populance? Terror helps the gop? Then they are terrorists.

Is it any wonder that Americans rank journalists with politicians in terms of respect? Is the news cycle now moving so quickly that The Fix couldn't wait a day to trivialize her death?

Sure, it's a political blog, but one would have hoped that a modicum of propriety and human decency trumped that agenda for at least long enough to consider that most Americans, upon hearing politicians' scrambling to beat themselves to take advantage of Ms. Bhutto's assassination, ask not "Who will profit?," but rather "Who comes off like less of a vulture in the aftermath?"

Of course, it's difficult to get a sense of this larger picture when you're busy feeding on the corpse yourself.

What was Ron Paul's reaction to Bhutto's assassination? He's the only Republican who seems to understand we do harm by injecting ourselves into every trouble spot. Didn't he make a statement, Mr. Cillizza?

Interestingly, the real loser isn't mentioned here. The assassination seems to reflect the continuing failure of Bush administration (or should we say Cheney administration) foreign policy. The candidates, esp. the Republicans need to be clear where they stand vis a vis. the obvious policy and implementation failures of the current administration. Yet, Chris doesn't seem to recognize this.....

Watch them stamp the assassination with their house brands. Giuliani squawks "9/11" and "terrorists." Huckabee says he is going to pray. Romney says "jihadists." What a disgusting trio they make.

I see the silly twits over here blathering on and on about Clinton and the primary still. A little something for you to think about: Hillary Clinton received a significant portion of her senatorial and presidential campaign money from Indian business interests and she (and hubby) is viewed in Pakistan as being in the pocket of India to the extent that no Pakistani politician will have a thing to do with either of them. Now, the "word on the street" in Pakistan has been that India and he U.S. will attempt to seize their nuclear weapons in the present eventuality. So, nationalist elements of the military have dispersed them and hidden several. A Clinton victory will be viewed as a slap-in-the-face, worse than the one administered by Bush thus far, and will remove all possible influence we have on Pakistan with disastrous consequences.

Posted by: mibrooks27 | December 27, 2007 07:46 PM

You know the word on the street is that your complete lack of supporting evidence says much about the content of your post. With respect to the Indians, who are very fine people as a whole, do you not recognize the FACT that India is highly influenced by US corporations?

As far as candidates statements, if Obama was indeed shocked by this event I am inclined to think maybe he doesn't have the experience one should have to be President. This was pretty much seen as a done deal when Mushie let her back into the country. She, as sad as it is, was the sacrificial lamb, We are likely, in my opinion to see a similar event in the upcoming year.

In your opinion is Benazir Bhutto a victim of Islamic Extremists or President of Pakistan Pervez Musharraf?

http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=1382

.

I see the silly twits over here blathering on and on about Clinton and the primary still. A little something for you to think about: Hillary Clinton received a significant portion of her senatorial and presidential campaign money from Indian business interests and she (and hubby) is viewed in Pakistan as being in the pocket of India to the extent that no Pakistani politician will have a thing to do with either of them. Now, the "word on the street" in Pakistan has been that India and he U.S. will attempt to seize their nuclear weapons in the present eventuality. So, nationalist elements of the military have dispersed them and hidden several. A Clinton victory will be viewed as a slap-in-the-face, worse than the one administered by Bush thus far, and will remove all possible influence we have on Pakistan with disastrous consequences.

KingofZouk says >>>those of us who live and work in DC on actual pressing scientific, legal, political and military issues, can afford to be amused by these grown up adolescents. the wealth in this country is astounding, consider that somehow, those imbeciles manage to eat and sleep indoors.

but those of us who actually are responsible for policies and laws do not have the luxury of attacking everyone we meet. In fact, the things we do have to make sense - something that eternally escapes the likes of drindl and rufas.<<<

I take it you must either be retired or on vacation. Otherwise, given the massive number of posts you've placed here today, your employer is paying you for work you're obviously not doing. You speak of "not having the luxury to attack everyone we meet," while you're doing precisely that here. And I fail to see how you can waste so much worktime on this site while pontificating that "the things we do have to make sense," when arguing ad infinitum with total strangers to achieve no logical purpose. The only thing lacking that would make you a perfect hypocrite would be if you were a government employee as well, playing for hours on the Internet and complaining about how our tax dollars are being wasted while stealing them yourself with your endless foolishness.

Whomever it was that made the observation that you're a master of projection nailed you perfectly, Zouk. Get a real job.

While you mentioned that Biden had comments you did not say what they were although you covered all the others that you wrote had comments. Did you not feel that Senator Bidens comments were worth repeating or have you joined the rest of the press in writing him out of the race-----a self fulling prophesy

aFTER RADING ZZ'ING RUDY LOVE FEST, i CAME TO A REALIZATION. Zouk is cc.

CC you are zouk aren't you, you lsy dog. There's one why to run a blog. The WaPo is a joke. CC is a joke. I just come here to make sure any progressive liberals that come here , or are pointed here by others, hear the truth. not lies smears and propoganda. Soembody's got to do it. Cc's not. no one here was before i arrived.

Previous you had a zouk, simon proud and mark in austin gop sewing circle. i'm glad to see how far this site has come in terms of news, differance of opinion, and back and forth. No thansk to cc/zouk.

An ultimately moronic column; Giuliani only looks good compared with Bush (whose response was pathetic). Pakistan is fractured, troubled country and not exactly like the US or a European democracy (or even an Asian semi-democracy). It's shame Dan Froomkin doesn't have this slot, he'd at least have thought through what to write....

Sick. That article is from parade, but linked to by drudge. A disclaimer if you read. It is a hit piece, like always.

Just thought I'd add something as this site is done for the day

Right after 9/11, Rudy went to court to get them to suspend the November election for mayor. He claimed only he could lead the city, and his soon to end mayoral term should be extended indefinitely, as he worked fevorishly to restore order. Of course Bloomberg was not happy to see Rudy do this. Fortunately, the court told Rudy to bag his ass and the election for mayor would not be suspended....Fast forward to October, 2008, and George Bush declares martial law, and says he will remain President, and that the constitution is suspended, and there will not be an election in November, as only he can fight terrorism as a sitting President. Same con that Rudy tried to pull. Don't believe it ?? Fact check Rudy with Google, or any other search engine you believe in, or ask any NEW YORKER, and learn the truth about Hiz Honor, tough guy Rudy.

The reality is that none of these candidates make me feel any safer. On the contrary, our politicians' naive meddling in Pakistan's affairs put our own domestic security at great risk. Musharaff is not a good guy. This planet is not heaven. Let's acknowledde as much. If we should advocate modernization, then we ought to set a truly modern standard: begin to disarm ourselves. If nuclear non-proliferation is all the rage worldwide, then we can mitigate the need for developing nations to develop mass weaponry. Eliminate the threat to their sovereignty, and you will simultaneously eliminate our own threat at home. Not to mention all the money we'll all save from reducing our impressive, manly defense budgets. More money to service the domestic arena. Happy New Year's! Stop Rudy Guiliani!

Eugene Debs '08

the preamble to the above story that is going to be released on jan 08

"PARADE EXCLUSIVE

email story

print story'A Wrong Must Be Righted'
An interview with Benazir Bhutto

By Gail Sheehy
Published: December 27, 2007

"Editor's note: We are all saddened by the murder this morning of Pakistan's Benazir Bhutto. The assassination adds more danger and confusion to the already chaotic situation in the region.

In late November, PARADE sent Contributing Editor Gail Sheehy to Pakistan. Sheehy traveled with former prime minister Benazir Bhutto as she campaigned through her home provinces. Sheehy had two long interviews with her--the first in Bhutto's home in Islamabad, a second at her residence outside Karachi. Bhutto told Sheehy that she had long been a target of terrorists. She knew she was also now a target of the Musharraf government. Today's suicide bombing mirrors the earlier attempt on her life that Bhutto described to Sheehy.

The interview with Bhutto will be the cover story of PARADE on January 6, 2008
"

r

fyi

"Dust spirals from village to village across the countryside of Pakistan. Drums lead men to dance in the streets as they witness the reappearance of their revered leader. No matter how long and hard I look, there are no women. Except her.

Ben-a-zir, zindabd! the men chant. Long live Benazir!

Benazir Bhutto has returned to her fractured country to run for prime minister this Tuesday. She has ruled twice before--and twice been overthrown. Her caravan continually switches direction to foil suicide bombers. Only a few weeks earlier, she narrowly escaped blasts that slaughtered 170 of her supporters. Now I watch her stand tall atop a truck, waving, white-scarved. Serenely smiling.

That evening, Bhutto invites me to her ancestral home in Larkana, where she still presides over several thousand acres of feudal lands. Meeting me alone on the men's side, she is ready to let down her veil.

Today I saw you campaigning essentially unprotected, I say. How do you do it?

In answer, she invokes her late father, Zulfikar Bhutto, a populist reformer and the nation's first democratic prime minister. "From the day my father was hanged--I was 25--whenever there is a crisis, I go into a kind of detachment. 'What should I be doing?' I just start ticking off steps. I don't feel."

Like her country, Bhutto is a riddle. Brilliant, beautiful, fearless, she is also ruthlessly ambitious, devious and corrupt. The first question that perplexes an American: How could Bhutto -- Harvard- and Oxford-educated, unapologetically secular -- have become the first woman elected to lead a Muslim country? In part, the answer is that in dynastic Pakistan, she is effectively royalty. The second question: Why should this election matter so much to America? That answer is simpler. Pakistan has nuclear weapons. Also, the most dangerous place in the world is Pakistan's lawless border with Afghanistan. It is a Ho Chi Minh Trail of terrorism where Osama bin Laden is believed to enjoy sanctuary.

Bhutto maintains that the Pakistani army's decision to overthrow her in 1996 came after she announced plans to crack down on terrorism. "I am what the terrorists most fear," she tells me, "a female political leader fighting to bring modernity to Pakistan. Now they're trying to kill me."

Talat Masood, a retired general who has advised Bhutto, foresees his nation breaking in half. " The only option left to the people of Pakistan," he says, "is the military or the militants."

Or another try at democracy under Bhutto.

. . .

During our talk in Larkana, Bhutto weeps in describing her struggles after being ousted 12 years ago on charges of plundering the treasury. Her husband was jailed without charges. She faced constant harassment by the courts. Even while living with her three children in self-imposed exile in London and Dubai, she could not open a bank account or use a credit card because of the charges against her in Pakistan. "I didn't have the press, I didn't have the judiciary, I was all alone," she whimpers. As if on cue, tears fall. "I only had God," she moans.

Bhutto still insists that there are no foreign bank accounts in her name. I suggest that most are in the names of her mother or of friends. She feigns surprise--what could others' finances have to do with her? "I'm an independent legal entity!" she protests. "What's the difference between you and me?"

"One point five billion dollars," I reply--the amount the Pakistani government contends that she and her husband pocketed while in power. She also allegedly siphoned funds from the U.N. Oil for Food program. Her defense: "Six other companies in Pakistan did it. Nobody investigated them."

Beneath the theatrics Bhutto uses to such effect is an ominous reality. "She's the No. 1 target of the terrorists right now," says Humayun Gauhar, a confidant of Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf.

Bhutto says she first heard the name Osama bin Laden in 1989, when he sent $10 million to the ISI, Pakistan's infamous intelligence service, to help it overthrow her first government. The ISI has close ties to radical Islamists and was responsible for the Taliban's rise to power in Afghanistan. America's CIA, which also supported the Afghan holy warriors in their guerrilla struggle against the Soviet Union in the 1980s, continues to work with the ISI today--theoretically in suppressing the very terrorist legions it helped to create.

"Benazir tried to push the intelligence service out of politics in her first term," acknowledges America's ambassador to Pakistan at the time, Robert Oakley. "It was a bold move, but it failed."

"I was ignorant of the extremist war of these new radical Islamists until my second term," Bhutto tells me. Upon re-election in 1993, she learned of more attempts to assassinate her from the interrogation of a Pakistani terrorist named Ramzi Yousef--the mastermind of the 1993 bombing of New York's World Trade Center. That investigation also revealed to her the existence of madrassas, or Islamic schools, preaching jihad against the West.

Bhutto tried once more to break the ISI. Again, she failed and was overthrown--and, with ISI support, Taliban-controlled Afghanistan became the staging ground for 9/11.

. . .

To understand why Bhutto is so driven, one must imagine her huddling with her mother in a cold jail cell through a long April night in 1979, waiting for her father to be hanged by the military strongman who had overthrown him. The young woman and her mother subsequently lived through repeated raids, arrests and solitary confinement.

Have you healed? I ask this 54-year-old survivor. Or is avenging your father your solace?

"I feel that a wrong must be righted," she says. She recalls her father's parting words: "You can walk away. You're young. You can go to live in London or Paris or Geneva."

"No," she told him. "I have to keep up this mission of yours, of democracy."

Bhutto's own family dismisses her little-girl-lost script. "Her father's death was enormously convenient for her politically," her American-educated niece, Fatima Bhutto, tells me. "She has no legacy of her own except for corruption and violence, so she rests on her father's laurels." Fatima blames her aunt for her own father's assassination in 1996.

Reflecting on the lessons of her two terms as prime minister, Bhutto tells me, "It's only now that America has awakened to what we were already fighting--Islamic jihadis." Fortunately for her, the West's urgent fear of Pakistan as a breeding ground for terrorists has given Bhutto the chance to redefine herself. During most of her exile, she was considered irrelevant by Washington. Then she hired Hillary Clinton's image-maker, Mark Penn, and began playing up to Musharraf.

When Musharraf's popularity dove in 2007 after his jailing of judges, lawyers and journalists, Bhutto suddenly emerged as America's "ideal." U.S. politicians needed her--progressive, secular, female, willing to compromise--to put a face of democracy on their support for Musharraf's autocratic rule.

True to form, Bhutto manipulated Musharraf to erase the charges against her, promising not to return to Pakistan until after national elections. She then broke that promise. But once she sensed that even her stalwarts were appalled at an arranged political marriage to a dictator, she spurned Musharraf and became her own woman again.

I sense a dark reflection in both Bhutto's psychological history and her country's constant turmoil--a compulsion to repeat past traumas. A prime example is the way she returned to her country on Oct. 18.

Ignoring warnings of terrorist cells plotting to kill her, Bhutto presided from atop a caravan over a parade that took 10 hours to snake through Karachi. Near midnight, the streetlights went out. The police disappeared. Her feet swollen from standing, Bhutto ducked below into a steel command center to remove her sandals. Moments later, a bomb went off. "I had a sickening, sickening feeling," she tells me. She now believes the bomb was wired to an infant that a man had been trying to hand to her. She recalls saying to the people with her, "Don't go outside--another blast will follow." It did.

When she finally emerged, Bhutto saw bits of brain and flesh and fingers from 20 members of Benazir's Brigade--the young guards who wear red shirts proclaiming "I Give My Life for Bhutto" -- decorating the platform from which she had waved. All told, 170 of her supporters died. Tellingly, the Musharraf government has mounted no investigation.

Her friend Abida Hussain, a former Pakistani ambassador to the U.S., tells me that Bhutto later felt sad and asked, "How many lives did I risk?" Bhutto herself indignantly protests this anecdote to me. "I said no such thing! We must be out on the streets, or the terrorists win."

Such is politics in Pakistan.

. . .

Musharraf called the attempt on Bhutto a suicide attack by Islamic extremists. Bhutto believes it was the work of Musharraf's allies. "There are rogue elements within ISI that are ideologically jihadist and less than enthusiastic about Benazir Bhutto becoming prime minister a third time," says a Bhutto adviser. However, Musharraf's confidant Gauhar argues to me: "We don't want a dead Benazir on our hands! She'd be just another unlikely martyr that we don't need."

If Bhutto returns to power this week, Gauhar predicts the U.S. will finally get what Musharraf has refused it: "She will allow NATO boots on the ground in our tribal areas and a chance to neuter our nuclear weapons." Yet President Bush remains reluctant to give up on Musharraf, despite the fact that two-thirds of Pakistanis want him to resign immediately. If the election is rigged, as expected, public outrage is likely to erupt. Bhutto says she won't join an illegitimate government. But her niece, Fatima Bhutto, says, "She'll work with anyone to get back into power."

Despite the corrosion of her reputation by corruption and compromise, Bhutto appears to be America's strongest anchor in the effort to turn back the extremist Islamic tide threatening to engulf Pakistan. What would you like to tell President Bush? I ask this riddle of a woman.

She would tell him, she replies, that propping up Musharraf's government, which is infested with radical Islamists, is only hastening disaster. "I would say, 'Your policy of supporting dictatorship is breaking up my country.' I now think al-Qaeda can be marching on Islamabad in two to four years."

"

http://www.parade.com/benazir_bhutto_interview.html

r

drindl says:
"beaten by logic, reason and fact, resort to sexual, absurdist attacks"

I must have missed all that logic and above board humor in all your posts, for example the following:

didja get larry craig for christmas, zouk, like you asked santa? i recall you said you wanted a 'ho' with a 'wide stance' -- remember?
dec. 24 post if anyone cares to verify.

ho ho ho...

Posted by: claudialong | December 27, 2007 03:48 PM

'The good thing about drindl and rufas is that they are much too busy bloggin on this site all day'

this from someone who posts every 2 minutes, every day for 7 hours. and the classic?

'why don't you analyze the issues her dress wearing husband and closeted kid must have.'

when totally beaten by logic, reason and fact, resort to sexual, absurdist attacks on families and children. really, there is no bottom for these people.

Hey it's not fair to call Huckabee a loser on this. He hasn't even heard about it yet. Maybe he'll read about it in tomorrow's papers.

"The good thing about drindl and rufas is that they are much too busy bloggin on this site all day and studying other leftist hate sites to do any real harm."

ZOUK

that's the great thing about the internet. I can be at all places at all times. The world Is my oyster. I thought you knew that by me telling you (and others here)what is happening in the world daily, and in the future. Judge my posts in the future, not now. Go dig through the archeives. What what I said come to light. And see zouk exposed for the liar and coward that he is.

The problemw ith the zouks is the truth never enters the equation. He can be wrong over and over, jsut like his masters, yet he keeps on propogating. It's funny to me. I wonder if anyone not a clone dittohead is buying their garbage. I doubt it

Peanut gallery. No body cares about a fascist pig propognadists diagnosis. Not with all the mental problem s you have. you are so toguh zouk. Why not enlist? Are you to old to pu your life where you mouth is?

If so then serve your coutnry in other ways. Stop being a propognadist sabouter. As far as your prognostication. Time will tell. Name one thing you have ever been right about, on this site. Really. when has anything you have ever said here come to pass? All you do is attack clinton and lib's. you got nothing. you got nothing.

proudtobeGOP,
you have a point about Speaker Pelosi. This is classic bait and switch. I wanted to see some real movement on Iraqi and illegal immigration and would have been happy if this was still a work-in-progress... that is both sides could agree on doing something even small. What the People got instead is a stalemate which means we are stuck with the status quo.

dr pop - no one escapes the put downs of drindl.

why don't you analyze the issues her dress wearing husband and closeted kid must have.

Pelosi's list of accomplishments must be calculated in dog years - just liike hillarys "35 years" of experience. do you divide by 7 or 12, I can't remember?

claudialong,
ouch!! :)

Please forgive me of my typing error. Maybe you are right, I have been listening to Rush a bit to long! I hope that wasn't a Freudian slip. :)

The good thing about drindl and rufas is that they are much too busy bloggin on this site all day and studying other leftist hate sites to do any real harm.

those of us who live and work in DC on actual pressing scientific, legal, political and military issues, can afford to be amused by these grown up adolescents. the wealth in this country is astounding, consider that somehow, those imbeciles manage to eat and sleep indoors.

but those of us who actually are responsible for policies and laws do not have the luxury of attacking everyone we meet. In fact, the things we do have to make sense - something that eternally escapes the likes of drindl and rufas.

so to those of you who actually contribute something concrete instead of daily moonbattery, I say - thanks for your input, effort and ideas.

Dr pop, the Dems could have gotten more of what they wanted had they played their cards right. But they were more interested in making a point than making law, or actually producing legislation, you know , like their supposed to do as legislators. That tactic didn't get them very far.

And don't be fooled by Pelosi's trumped up list of accomplishments, soon to hit the airwaves. She's creating a new definition of "bipartisan" just to make herself look like an effective leader. (snort) I guess it depends on the meaning of "is".

'Democrat Congressmen'

the correct term is 'Democratic Congressmen, or Congressmember' -- guess you've been lsitening to Limbaugh too long.

Something tells me drindl has a lot of experience talking to head doctors. Or clearly should get started immediately.

"At the very least, the Democrat Congressmen could have figured out a way to blame their adversaries but even here they dropped the ball. And I'm not listening to the argument of obstructionist politics because of the record use of the filibuster by the Republicans. The Congressional rules allow for the filibuster; therefore, it is not an obstructionist tactic. Just deal with it.

Posted by: Dr._Pop | December 27, 2007 05:48 PM
"

Right pop. But we can at least point it out. That the gop has broke the records for filibusters. I to agree that the mormon republican in disguise (Reid) has sold the movement out. And pelosi has been a coward. Where is cindy sheehan when you need her. :)

In terms of bhutto. It will be interesting to see how the spinsters spin it. Cnn and wolf did the right thing. you know what fox will do. It will be interesting to see the reportage this weekend and week.

that may sound cold. LEt me say again, this was a huge blow. for many reasons. We are not getting bin laden, anytime soon, as he is protected by bush and his allies. The threat of extreamists givin nukes is at hand. A turbulent muslim country in the middle east is goign to start more war in the region. All bad things. But for the gop to say this is good for them. to me, shows what they are about. If they benief from terrorism at every level, power money, how are they not terrorists?

If bin laden is public enemy #1 why did his family flee the country with bush approval? Why are the saudi's, who are providing weapons to kill americans, not being given the same treatment as iran? Read the signs. It's not rocket science.

I had thought you gop'ers were just getting lied to. once the liars were exposed and you got worse, it showed you fascist faces.

The time for civility is long over. Play time is over. I bet the man that shot Bhutto was smiling. does that mean he is not a terrorist and a murderer? Same with you grinning foot tappers. civility? you can keep it.

I am a former army infantry soldier 11B. Better for me to vent here that in the real world. And zouk and those like them stirring the nest. you have a year. don't tim mcveigh us when your party is irrelevant for 30 years. remember your leaders incompetance and criminaity.

I will not stop. you have to pull me from this site again. The only power you thoguht police meat puppet clowns have over me is the power I give you. I'm not submitting.

Racje writes: "I would like to see someone with Richardson's grasp ...in the White House."

The only grasp Richardson has is on a big greasy cheesburger, or alternately, the hind quarters of his administrative assistant. Hi ideas about handling US foriegn policy are so out in left field, not one of his fellow libs has endorsed or agreed with his platform of retreat and speedy surrender except Dennis Kucinich. As far as character and principles go, I'd sooner vote for Kucinich than Richardson.

'dr pop - do you think that the pack of jackels which flood this site with hate and emotion can be persuaded?

classic. i rest my case, doc.

proudtobeGOP,
in response to your post about the Democrats pointing fingers at each other because of the lack of achievement, I agree with you.

I understand the power of the president's veto is a hard hurdle to overcome given the Dems slight majority; however, the lack of political acumen among some long tenured Democrat politicians is inexcusable.

At the very least, the Democrat Congressmen could have figured out a way to blame their adversaries but even here they dropped the ball. And I'm not listening to the argument of obstructionist politics because of the record use of the filibuster by the Republicans. The Congressional rules allow for the filibuster; therefore, it is not an obstructionist tactic. Just deal with it.

Also, as I've said here. I come to HELP balance out the fascist propognadists. I'm here to should you why fox and rush should be pulled. If you would ban or silence me, which has been done, then you should not complin about lying fascist propogandists for profit (with conflict of interests up the wazoo) being pulled also.

Right mark in austin?

If I can be silenced, so can the lying pig propogandists. And they will be. Remember how you people ran the show zouk. I don't want to hear any "free speech" arguements when rush and fox and coulter and malkin and savage and on and on are pulled. Reagan destroyed political dialogue, by removing the fairness doctirne, soon we will be able to re-unite this nation again. Without those that make millions off dividing us for profit.

I just wish the gop would willingly do what needs to be done. They don't. party loyalists that choose treason over thier own country. I had hoped once all these old people were realizing they were getting lied to they would turn on fox. Nope. they ove their lies and propoganda.

Tiem to cut their chains. wheter they walk out of the cave is up to them. All we can do is cut your chains

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_cave

r

tHAT'S CALLED TRUTH ZOUK. Wacthing waht you watch and listening to what you listen to would only come off as an attack. that is the problem. You fascist meat puppets are incapable of recognizing facts.

Like I said last week. I may want the 49ers to win the superbowl. If I came out today that the niners are going to win the superbowl I might lose crediblity, no? Same with you.

You may be pulling for this country, AS WE ALL ARE. But that doesn't mean we scrap any and all laws. It doesn't mean we are inable to see the wrongs happening boefore our eyes, and our freedoms from being pulled from under our feet.

That is what got the nazi's. Their inability to see the truth right in front of their eyes. you fascists propogandaist who still call themselves gop memebers are equivalnet to nazi's, In my humble opinon.

I see nothign wrong with posting truths as dirndl did here. What I do have a problem with is people liek you lying and misleading voters to get fascists elected. Or murdering people then saying that is why you should be elected. To protect.

"persuading people to different points of views "

dr pop - do you think that the pack of jackels which flood this site with hate and emotion can be persuaded? you must be new around here.

Persuasion is the result of facts, figures, logic, reason and yes tone and tenor. but to confront the radical hystericalism that is vented on this blog minute by minute by the moonbat left requires a thick skin and an ability to ignore the noise. On occasion, an intelligent poster emerges, such as yourself, who sticks out as open to conversation, at which point the thinking bloggers respond accordingly.

In the meantime, drindl and rufas are insulting everyone in sight and spreading their message of intolerance and disgust. when thay make any sense at all, that is.

Sutter commented, "And NO Republican would dare mention the fact that U.S. arming of Islamic rebels fighting the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan might have played a role in the Taliban (strong allies of Al Qaeda) come to power."

Ron Paul is a Republican running for president. He has always spoken strongly and consistently on the folly of US interventionism in the middle east. Mr. Cillizza consistently omits mention of the only candidate from either party who advocates ending the US misadventures, meddling, and expenditures over there.

We should thank the Washington Post for the comments section. Without it, of what use would these opinion pieces be?

Actually it goes downhill the minute drindl shows, usually the first or second post of the day and the last one too:

'Bhutto's assassination could well work to Giuliani's benefit'

I have to say, CC, that this is one of the most nauseating comments I have ever read-and speaks volumes about the nature of media and politics in this country.

But it also demonstrate Rudy's naked lust for power, that he would immediately jump on a tragedy and use it to further his career, much like he jumped atop the burning bodies of 9/11 to begin his campaign for president.

It is clear that Guiliani will use any means, will capitalize on any human tragedy, will do anything to feed his massive ego and gain unfettered power and access to vast amounts of wealth.

You might also note -- if you cared about accuracy, CC -- that this was an ASSINATION -- which might well have been carried out by our ally Mr. Mushareff [rather than 'terrorists'] as he had many reasons to what her dead before the elections next month.

I know you are shameless, but try, just this once.

Posted by: claudialong | December 27, 2007 10:50 AM

And it goes on like this all day every day of poor drindl's existence.

kingofzouk,
you have captured the essence of what Dr. Pop is all about. I don't take myself that serious and I know I can be wrong even about things I've held as true for a very long time. This is why I listen to other people and synthesize their thoughts and ideas with mine own.

I believe this country is great because people like yourself will say or do something outrageous to shake people out of their complacent thinking. The problem I see with your posts are they are not motivated to persuading people to different points of views but rather to beat people down to your will. Your post dehumanizes people and creates an antagonistic environment.

Now, I have agreed with some of your post as I do with some of the things Rush Limbaugh has said but the language, volume and the tone is so negative I don't want to risk being associated.

Bill Richardson gets my vote for his perceptive, unfearful response that promotes democracy throughout the world. It's a reasoned, hopeful, and calming response that speaks for our values. He advocates using diplomatic leverage against the enemies of democracy, including Musharraf. I would like to see someone with Richardson's grasp of the goal (democracy) and the tools (diplomatic means) in the White House.

McCain aligns with Richardson in pursuit of reason, hope, and democracy.

Giuliani, on the other hand, seeks to stoke the fires of fear and violence, claiming again that the main problem in the world is the Terrorists' War on Us. Romney echoes Giuliani.

The other candidates seem a bit muffled at this point.

"Opposition leader Nawaz Sharif boycotting Jan. 8 elections, says Musharraf should resign immediately and calls for nationwide strike... Developing..."

r

'Why does this post always seem to devolve into personal attacks against each other?'

follow the logical and reasnable tenor of the morning discussion. then see how it goes immediately downhill into the gutter and sandbox after 2:15, and you will have your answer.

'you just can't make this stuff up! Like clockwork, Dems once again prove their ineffectiveness in government....'

here's another classic head case, Doc -- our economy is heading into the toilet, our foreign policy is in shambles, we have the biggest foreign and trade deficits in history -- and a REPUBLICAN says this. you just can't make this stuff up.

"Win the war, ignore the polls bush
Same view as last year, no polls needed McCain
Kill the enemy, cut taxes Guiliani

Posted by: kingofzouk | December 27, 2007 05:15 PM
"

And your percieved enemies are liberals the media judges actors musicaian, anyone not a gop clone. So you hate a lot of people. Everyone not exactly like you people are your enemies. That's the problem. We are all americans. You fascists make a living dividing and inciting violence agaisnt americans. That's why you are traitors and fascists. In zouk, rush o'reilly and the like's case, they are propogandists.

If you are a propogandist and you are professing fascist principles, are you then a fascist propogandist? Ues you are. Zouk, rush, or'eiily. that is why all the hatred. These fascists lied for fun. I think zouk giggles like a 11 year old school girl over the angr he causes.

He is a traitor. When the doj is up and running again, we know what do do with traitors. Zouk once asked, "show me where treason is illegal". That is the mentality we are dealing with. Enjoy your propogandists while they last. Enjoy the last year of these games. When obama or edwards comes into office, play time is over.

Come gop. what does attacking democrats have with the topic at hand. I know you can't help yourself, drug dealer, but stay on topic.

for the sake of blog flow. :)

Now if only drindl would change her blog name to "head jackel", you'd have a two-fer zouk. :)

Posted by: proudtobeGOP | December 27, 2007 04:55 PM

You know that "truth in labeling" would end the Dem party. who would vote for "no controlling legal authority gore", or "she paid for it Kerry" or "criminal conspiracy clinton" or "I see dead people Edwards" or even "hope will have to do Obama".

the Rs however might profit from this:

Pick one:

Win the war, ignore the polls bush
Same view as last year, no polls needed McCain
Kill the enemy, cut taxes Guiliani

You just can't make this stuff up! Like clockwork, Dems once again prove their ineffectiveness in government....

With Democrats emerging victorious just a year ago in the 2006 midterm elections claiming a mandate to drive the country in a new direction, one would have hardly predicted headlines like "Bush, GOP prevail in host of Hill issues" in the Associated Press, "Dems cave on spending" in the Hill, and the Politico's "Liberals lose bigtime in budget battle."

And then, like jackels, they turn on each other... one Washington Post headline declared, "Democrats Blaming Each Other for Failures." The article cited House Dems accusing their Senate counterparts of selling out and folding.

In December 2006, Reid said in an interview, "legislation is the art of compromise and consensus building and I'm going to compromise." House Democrats have yet to embrace this theme.

Here's the problem; they overreached after the honeymoon period and frittered away high expectations by taking a sharp turn to the left. Bad idea. Dems in Congress get a failing grade for the year.

bsimon,
yes Carolyn Hax would have her hands full. I think these bloggs are very therapeutic though. bloggs has replaced road rage as a safer form of venting against what we perceive as idiotic.

"Can you now do the same about stupid statements from your side?" Point them out and I will consider it.

Dr pop - I have found that most people that go into the field of psychology and express an interest in it suffer from self-identity issues. they are confused about them selves and begin to study to try to figure it out logically. then they run into the wall when the math isn't there, just a bunch of silly generalities, like "must have mother issues", or "needs attention", which is utterly useless in practice. then the Fruedian idea of talk, talking kicks in - no end in sight, immense bills and weekly trips to the cathedral of this new religion. now that I put it that way, I can see why you Libs like to so much, it costs a lot, it goes on forever, there are no metrics for success, if you challange it, you can be labeled heartless and all sorts of charletans can practice it.

you have definately found your nitch. but don't get too full of yourself. the rest of us think it is an amusing hobby, like palm reading, astrology or horoscopes.

Giuliani, whose Presidential campaign (and entire post-mayoral career) has exploited those killed in the WTC attacks, has about as much credibility (that is to say none) as all the other Republican candidates, with the exception of McCain. While I am a uncommitted Democrat (and would not vote for McCain for President), among Republicans he has the most experience (both military and in the Senate) to deal with these issues.

Damn. Where have you been SteelWheel1. Your on point opinion has been much needed on this blog.

do your thing. your cracking me up. HAHAHAHA

Everything you are saying has already been told to zouk the clown fascist. I come here to battle him so the rest are free to blog without peanut gallery arguments. also to free up others to say what they really feel. no one is a left as me, here.

I love it when people stand up to these bullies. But your right. It can only be done by playing by their rules. Once you understand their fascist rules, by watching their propognadists, it is impossible for people like him to win any verbal battle. How can he. He's not working with facts. He's not working with the whole deck.

Come back. Your opinion and comedy is much needed levitity here.

good luck and may God shine his wisdom and protection on you.

Dr POp writes
"What it does indicate is a person crying out for attention because nowhere else in his life has anyone paid him this much attention."

Dr Pop - Do you think Carolyn Hax could swing on by & give some advice on how to deal with such a needy personality?

I watch fox and o'reilly for the same reason. I try to explain this to zouk when he talks about how great their ratings are. I want more people to watch. It will accelerate them being pulled from the air.

How do you speak to a martian? you must learn martian from a martian. These people ahve lost their grip on reality. how can a reasonable man explain reason to these lunatics. HEre's waht you do. You read blog and get all teh information you can. you learn about what is really going on. then you see the small picture these old folk are givin by porpogandists. They are looking through a pin size window. Normal americans (non dittoheads) are not even in the house. It's to easy to rip these propogandists to shreds. The problem comes when they refuse to acknowledge reality.

The sky is red, right zouk? how can you debate reasonably with that. the gop is done.

Now if only drindl would change her blog name to "head jackel", you'd have a two-fer zouk. :)

"I don't support the troops because they don't support the Constitution."

That is a totally idiot, irresponsible statement that as a Progressive I condemn, don't support and I doubt you can find progressives not condemning. People on both sides make irrisponsible statements but don't try and tar every Progressive with such lunacy. I fully condemn such unpatriotic statements as you. Can you now do the same about stupid statements from your side?

The bottom line is that this is a sad day for the world peace and that we should all, left and right, mourn the loss of this visionary and not look for political advantage from this loss. The first politician that states that gets my vote next November.

"Likewise, going to a foreign contry and telling them what you want may sound appealing to loony Li9bs, but to other countries it leaves much to be desired.

I agree. Lest's get out of iraq and the middle east. let's pull out of korea and viet.

HAHAHHAHA

You are a clown zouk. Only here for all of our amusement. nobody wants your approval. Nobody other than you blogs for "jones effect", pat on the back approval. for a person as misinformed as you, you sure have a desire to share with others. Please crawl back under the rock you came from. The real world rejected fascism years ago. Now that the americans people see you party for what they really are, you are done. YOU CANNOT WIN ZOUK. It is impossible. You have already lost. You lost when the truth of all these scandels start leaking. Any one of which can send many of YOUR leaders to federal prison. If the doj was not filled with party loyalists like you bush and cheaney and rumy and teneat would all be in jail right now. If clinton or a r get's the nom they slide. Otherwise you are in for a rude awakening in a couple weeks.

you better hope the d nominee is clinton. That's your party's only hope. i doubt it though.

ssmith,
you asked "Why does this post always seem to devolve into personal attacks against each other? Can't you people have reasonable disagreements without getting downright nasty toward anyone who disagrees?"

My answer to your question is...
That is how one gets notice.

It is rarely the reasonable among us that gets the attention but rather the loud and unreasonable. Rush Limbaugh is a genius in this regard because he saw the gold that can be made by being loud and unreasonable.

Just skim though this blogg and count the number of people that has responded to kingofzouk and they to them. Now kingofzouk rarely makes a good point but his language is always incendiary which in turn illicit many responses. Now kingozouk thinks this indicates strength in his argument but that thought is misplaced. What it does indicate is a person crying out for attention because nowhere else in his life has anyone paid him this much attention.

rufas, shouldn't you be at the airport chanting, clinging cymbals and handing out pamphlets at this hour?

And you smell bad zouk.

HAHAHAHAH

i fyou want to play elementary school games we can. You cannot win with the facts. You MUST lie spin and discredit. Read again. you and your movement to a tee:

"Propaganda [from modern Latin: 'propagare', "extending forth"] is a concerted set of messages aimed at influencing the opinions or behavior of large numbers of people. Instead of impartially providing information, propaganda in its most basic sense presents information in order to influence its audience. The most effective propaganda is often completely truthful, but some propaganda presents facts selectively to encourage a particular synthesis, or gives loaded messages in order to produce an emotional rather than rational response to the information presented. The desired result is a change of the cognitive narrative of the subject in the target audience."

Oh, and fascist terrorists. Don't want to leave that out.

dON'T KNOW IF ANYONE SAID THIS, i have to catch up.

On wolf blitzer he had an email from bhutto. He was to release it only if she was MURDERED. In it she places the blame on the president of pakistan. For lack of security and for denying requests made, in terms of security.

One thing is for sure. We're not getting bin laden anytime soon now. Teh gop cult watches it's own back, that's for sure. If only they did the same for america and all americans, rather than just their fascist cult. Is choosing party over country still treson? If so yoru party is in for a bumpy ride. No one has earned their irrelevacne more. Enjoy it zouk. You fascist coward propogandist you

iraleichtman writes
"The legitimate question is whether we can trust the Musariff govt that failed in protecting Ms. Bhutto to now hunt down the perpetrators of this horrendous event."

That is a legitimate question. The likely answer is 'no'. The Musharraf gov't will have their hands full keeping Musharraf in power. He, too, is an assassination target. The death of Bhutto will make it more difficult for Musharraf to maintain power, much less stability.

Why does this post always seem to devolve into personal attacks against each other? Can't you people have reasonable disagreements without getting downright nasty toward anyone who disagrees?

Posted by: ssmith | December 27, 2007 04:21 PM

you don't know drindl very well , do you? If you DARE to disagree with it, you are either insane, evil or stupid. there are no other reasons.

have read nothing here even slightly suggesting that we should blame America, first,second, etc, where is that drivel coming from

open your eyes:

"The armed forces of the United States have not done much to protect and defend the U.S. Constitution from tyranny, not much to find UBL or WMD, not much to find the U.S. Military Grade Anthrax Terrorist, not much to promote Democracy OR Freedom. I don't support the troops because they don't support the Constitution.
Posted by: postamerican | December 27, 2007 03:11 PM

wannabe intellectuals.........attempting to understand a completely different culture. Kinda like Bush trying to create peace within a culture 3000 years old. Good luck.
Vote Joe Biden 2008!!!!!!!!!!

How come I never see you questioning the legitimacy of Syria, or Iran or N Korea etc. Instead Pelosi visits with an alternative foreign policy.

Why does this post always seem to devolve into personal attacks against each other? Can't you people have reasonable disagreements without getting downright nasty toward anyone who disagrees?

kingofzouk,
I like that name Dr. Pop! That was very creative! Believe me, I'm changing my blogg name to Dr. Pop. There are a lot of bloggers out there who are suffering from the same psychological/political impairments that you are suffering from. And like I said, I want to help people. You are welcome!

"and that is why they are frustrated and mean and nasty - because they are losers and can't find a way out of the rut."

interesting choice of words, curious why discussions with neocons needlessly turn personal.

I have read nothing here even slightly suggesting that we should blame America, first,second, etc, where is that drivel coming from. Sounds like typical Rush/Hannity attacks when the other side is suggetsing that just maybe there is a better way to fight evil people. Are some sugesting that in America we should not have such discussions, or that those that do are somehow attacking America?

We get it. We have seen asasinations in Israel and other places that turn our stomachs, that deserve investigations and reprisals by the sovereign govt where it occurs not by a foreign power. The legitimate question is whether we can trust the Musariff govt that failed in protecting Ms. Bhutto to now hunt down the perpetrators of this horrendous event. Does questioning the legitimacy of that govt some how make progressives any less American? If so I would appreciate your detailed explanation of how that is, rather than rants that all liberals are evil.

'and that is why they are frustrated and mean and nasty - because they are losers and can't find a way out of the rut.'

the man has a real talent for projection...

Posted by: claudialong | December 27, 2007 03:53 PM

drindl falls back on the "I know you are but what am I" classic retort. the depths of her creativity have expired for the time being. time to head over to a hate site to recharge.

drindl, you still could use "I'm rubber you're glue" since original thought is so elusive.

Dr pop - heal thyself, you are not making any sense.

kingofzouk,
I posted below your latest post. Isn't this what the neocon wanted? And isn't this the exact thing that George W. did? But you are attributing this to the Liberals. See...that is a Freudian slip. You do think the Liberals have it right don't you! We are making some progress here. Keep talking it helps to get things off your chest so that the healing process can begin.

Previously written by kingofzouk:
I understand that you Libs think the entire world is your oyster and wishes to do things your way, but the recent congress results should inform you that going to extremes and expecting all others to bend to your will is totally ineffective.

Likewise, going to a foreign contry and telling them what you want may sound appealing to loony Li9bs, but to other countries it leaves much to be desired. some countries need coercion, some need diplomacy, some need encouragement, some need intervention. why is this so hard for you moonbats to figure out?

the clinton policy treated all our enemies as if they could be talked off the ledge. this did not turn out too well. It turns out that enemeies respond to violence and friends respond to talking. Just the opposite of the Lib methods.

Occasionally a worthy adversary emerges. not today. I don't avoid intelligent questions. I just don't get them from drindl's jackels.

compare what I have written today to her rantings and let me know what you think about the relative merit.

Will Bhutto's death kill Obama's & Huckabee's momentum in Iowa?

http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=1380

.

Maybe you should lay off the pop psychology until hillary is the candidate. you will have plenty of opportunities to use it then.

kingofzouk,
I listen to Rush Limbaugh's radio show, not because I agree with him but rather to understand his listeners.

Your posts are a classic Rush Limbaugh dodge technique. When asked a good question Rush doesn't answer he simply begin blovating about how hard it is to follow the Liberals' logic and then inject a lot of nonsense insults designed to avoid answering the question. And other technique of Rush is to answer a question that wasn't asked.

Now if the Liberal's on this blogg were the libbie moonbats, moron, idiots as you say they are why is it that you keep coming back to argue with them? Who is the fool? The fool or the person who argues with a fool?

If your intentions were to persuade Liberals to your way of viewing the issue I don't think you would have as must antagonism as you are presently getting.

But your aim seems to be to promote yourself to the position of "The Great Omniscience" and relegate all those who disagree with you to the idiot chamber. Maybe that is the reason you keep coming back to this great bastion of Liberalism. Because you stand out here and you know you wouldn't stand out if you were on an ultra conservative blogg.

Like I said, I listen to the Limbaugh show to understand his listeners

I understand that you Libs think the entire world is your oyster and wishes to do things your way, but the recent congress results should inform you that going to extremes and expecting all others to bend to your will is totally ineffective.

Likewise, going to a foreign contry and telling them what you want may sound appealing to loony Li9bs, but to other countries it leaves much to be desired. some countries need coercion, some need diplomacy, some need encouragement, some need intervention. why is this so hard for you moonbats to figure out?

the clinton policy treated all our enemies as if they could be talked off the ledge. this did not turn out too well. It turns out that enemeies respond to violence and friends respond to talking. Just the opposite of the Lib methods.

'and that is why they are frustrated and mean and nasty - because they are losers and can't find a way out of the rut.'

the man has a real talent for projection...

Why would anyone think Giuliani would be strengthened by this event? All candidates are against terrorists and we need positive leadership to sustain this effort. I see no evidence that his local government experience equips him to deal with complex international relations issues. He is on this Islam Facists kick which is ironic since the two biggest sources of Islamic terrorist, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, are supposedly our allies. Go figure.

with friends and 'allies' like pakistan, who harbor terrorists, we don't need enemies, do we?

didja get larry craig for christmas, zouk, like you asked santa? i recall you said you wanted a 'ho' with a 'wide stance' -- remember?
dec. 24 post if anyone cares to verify.

ho ho ho...

This inane debate between ignorant Republicans and ignorant Democrats aside...

The US has made the same mistake in Pakistan that they made in Iran, propping up a US-friendly puppet who oppressed hsi own people until the people rebel. Based on the past history of such US screw-ups (Iran, Cuba, to name just two) if Musharraf falls, whatever government replaces him will hate the US ... and they have nookular weapons. Blowback is a *****!

This type of murderous incident is always a very good indicator of who is liberal and who is not, and exactly what is wrong with the Liberals of today.

A liberal's first instinct is to blame America or its allies, nevermind the enemy who is the most obvious culprit. then they go into a sort of irrational hysterics about all the other things that ever went wrong according to them. finally, they fall back on the tired old chanting from every last battle they ever went through, all the way back to the 60s.

In the end they offer no solutions, no tangible advice, suggestions for more talking, more meetings, more oversight, more government, more control, more money all the while ignoring the actual enemy or problem at hand. ultimately they attempt to appeal to changing everything with an election although they offer no substance as to why anyone should vote for them.

and that is why they are frustrated and mean and nasty - because they are losers and can't find a way out of the rut.

SAL3456....Powell's kind of loyalty gave us Nazi Germany.
****
I'm amazed at Richardson's shooting from the lip by calling for Mush to resign before all the facts are in.... we've already got one cowboy in the WH, we don't need another.

http://whathappenedtomycountry.blogspot.com

What a sad, even stupid rush to get out a statement by Giuliani. "... the Terrorists' War on Us" as a comment on such an attack on THEM!? Hillary had it right. SHE met and knew Benazir Bhutto and knew to point out that we must stand with THEM "against the terrorists who threaten the common security of the world." Giuliani deserves nothing but our contempt for his naked grab for power using her terrible death and that poor nation's sad loss.

For anyone who believes that Musharif was elected in a fair election - I have a nice bridge in Brooklyn for sale.

That has to be a first. a Dem asking for accountability for money spent. there may be hope for you yet drindl. too bad your first attempt at this emotion was to cut the legs out from under one of our war allies and not on your extravagent social programs.

you see the Dems promised to reduce earmarks from 2000 in half. Instead we got 8000. that is Dem "accountability".

JKrishnamurti: let us all get into a pissing contest because what you believe and what I believe is so different yet completely irrelevant. Right? Call Bush and tell him to send a sympathy card with every VOTERS name personally signed. That would be a REAL testament to our honest concern. A check for $100.00 would get more of a response.

rufas if you wrote in English and made any sense, perhaps some of us may respond to your inannities one day.

steel wheel - I am not a Liberal so I don't suffer from the hate mentality like drindl and her pack of jackels.

I do not agree with most liberal policies or "solutions". but it is hard to get any of them to defend them. they are too busy with things like:

"gay basher who is secretly gay who expresses his emotional confliction "

which pretty much reaches the limit of Dem analysis these days, although I can't figure out what this means except some sort of self-flagulation about mommy issues, I think.

'the newly-appointed Pakistan Election Commission was appointed by -- Mushareff.

I have never advocted overthrowing Mushareff -- that's only in your tortured imagination, such as it is. I only suggest, as Biden does, that if we are going to give him billions of US taxpayers dollars, we ask for accountability. But this administraton doesn't know what the word means.

You have today outdone yourself zouk, in that you have made a bigger fool of yourself publicly than ever before. Everyone sees through you and ridicules you, because all you deserve is ridicule.

I wonder why you come here to be ridiculed. Is is masochism?

"So drindl advocates we invade and overthrow him. I suppose she thinks the same thing about the US election of 2000. Invalid because the court intervened.

Now you see the depth of battiness of this poor tortured individual. Facts and reason have no weight to her, only what she reads on hate sites.

Posted by: kingofzouk | December 27, 2007 03:23 PM
"

He is housing terrosist. If we are not to invade pakistan why afganistan. You show your clown face.

Musharif was FORCED, by the us, to take off his uniform. HE WAS FORCED

Are you suggesting that Bush exhibited some diplomacy and coerced one of our allies to do as we wished. I didn't think Repubs were able.

So is it our business what other countries do or not. Or does it depend on whether it can get hillary elected or not before you answer?

kingofzouk,
I think you are really a Liberal but you are trapped in a Conservative's body. This behavior isn't unlike the gay basher who is secretly gay who expresses his emotional confliction by attacking the very people he secretly identifies with.

This would explain your unnecessary and unreasonable hatred for Liberals. Even your staunches of Conservatives can have good reasoned disagreements with Liberals and still join arms as Americans.

Now, I'm not going to charge you $24.95 for this information like Rush Limbaugh would. I believe in helping people resolve their inner conflicts. You are welcome!

So according to drindl's logic - Mushaarraf did indeed win the election but because certain aspects went through the court (he resigned from the military which corrected this), it is not a good result.

Yet:

On November 24, 2007, the newly-appointed Pakistan Election Commission confirmed his re-election as President

So drindl advocates we invade and overthrow him. I suppose she thinks the same thing about the US election of 2000. Invalid because the court intervened.

Now you see the depth of battiness of this poor tortured individual. Facts and reason have no weight to her, only what she reads on hate sites.

"This is an outstanding question!! But don't expect kingofzouk to answer, at least not coherently or on point, because Rush Limbaugh hasn't finish his left wing demagoguery talking points on this subject for his radio listeners. I think Rush charges them $24.95 a month to get his talking points.

Posted by: SteelWheel1 | December 27, 2007 02:55 PM
"

HAHHAHAHAHAH

I say that here all the time. If anyone wants to know zouk or a dittohead's "opinion, they need not come here. turn on rush. He does the gop's thinking for them. Someone's got to. Like the borg they share the same fascist brain.

funny point

unfortunately smc91 we understand Washington and politics just fine and that is why only 45% of Americans turn out to vote. Who cares what political advantage an assasination delivers to a politician, there are things beyond political advantage. Its called authenticity. That is why I will be most impressed with the nonpolitial answer to Chris' querry. I am looking for the nonpolitical answer that tells voters that he/she is a real human being, a mensch, who understands this loss from a humanity perspective. Voters seem to me to be turned off by poll driven answers to the disaster de jeur and why many don't care to register, turn out on a cold Iowa day to a caucus, or find excuses not to find 5 minutes to vote every 4 years to choose a leader of this country. That is not a slap at Chris or even this blog, but an analysis on why voters are turned off when they are most need to change the current direction of our nation.

I see the entire pack of moonbat jackels is back today. you must be feeling more normal again drindl with so much craziness swirling around you.

congratulations on your leadership position.

"I see drindl has gone completely off the deep end again and is spewing contorted reality again.

1. Pakistan elected Musharif

"

"In October 1999, General Pervez Musharraf, Chief of Army Staff of the Pakistani army launched a military coup to topple Nawaz Sharif, then the elected Prime Minister of Pakistan."

Zouk shows his fascist lying propogandist for profit face again. his "re-elcetion" was more illegigtimate than Putin's. Musharif was FORCED, by the us, to take off his uniform. HE WAS FORCED. So what did he do then. Took off his uniform. then murdered the opposition. you show your face zouk. In justifying terrorists you show your face.

Pervez Musharraf is the current President of Pakistan, and former[1] Chief of Army Staff of the Pakistan Army. He came to power in 1999 by effecting a military coup d'état and has suspended the constitution of Pakistan twice; since then, he has been actively supported (through military and monetary aid) by western countries including the United States.

He took power on October 12, 1999, ousting Nawaz Sharif, the elected Prime Minister, dismissed the national and provincial legislative assemblies, assumed the title of Chief Executive and became Pakistan's de facto head of government, thereby becoming the fourth Army chief of Pakistan to have assumed executive control. Later in 2001, Musharraf appointed himself to the office of President of Pakistan.

On November 3, 2007, only days before a bench of the Supreme Court of Pakistan was to decide on a petition challenging the constitutional validity of his re-election as president in the controversial October 2007 elections, he, as Chief of Army Staff, suspended the constitution, jailed several justices and lawyers of the supreme court including Chief Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry, ordered the arrest of political dissidents and human rights activists, and shut down all private television channels.[2]

He declared an emergency. On November 24, 2007, the newly-appointed Pakistan Election Commission confirmed his re-election as President.[

drindl - please show me where it says AWOL on his record and the time he spent in jail for this offense?

Or are we to understand that you know way more about this than the military itself?

Hoowwwll. found a sore subject for moonbat drindl.

good use of your loony tunes websites though. can you give me that link that shows the WTC imploded under a Bush designed demolition again? Or the saucers from space you must be familiar with? I think your tin foil hat needs tuning again.

There goes zouk again -- taking at face value the word of some terrorist while he calls all US news media other than the rightwing Fox News liars.

A great American, that zouk.

The armed forces of the United States have not done much to protect and defend the U.S. Constitution from tyranny, not much to find UBL or WMD, not much to find the U.S. Military Grade Anthrax Terrorist, not much to promote Democracy OR Freedom. I don't support the troops because they don't support the Constitution. Same reason I don't support the Dems or the GOP!

"Just curious but, would the average Pakistani citizen really care if they knew when one of our "leaders" or presidential candidates were assassinated?
NO nor should they really be concerned.

Get real people......the average joe walking Main St. in America does not know nor care who Bhutto was or her significance to the people in Pakistan.

Isn't it time for America to butt out?
Send a sympathy card.

Posted by: lindafranke1952 | December 27, 2007 02:31 PM
"

Yes as the world would. She was going to get elected, but was murdered before. You show your face, gop. Unbelievable.

If you think not you do not understand current politics. If this is nothing, waht is the purpose of the "war on terror". If you don't care why is all out money going to places like pakistan. Any independant thinker should see you people and what your about.

If it's a $400 haircut, it should run for 4 weeks. If a democratic presidential candidate in one of the fronts in our war get's murdered we should ignore? WOW. Crazy rationalization, IMO. But this is america. tiem has shown the crazy justification you people use. I just like to force you to realize your fascist republcain double think.

your party is done. in 08 they go back to the closet where they belong. Traitors belong in jail. I hope justice is served come 08

Bush says he's released all his records...if that's true, then has anyone seen:

Any pages from Bush's flight log
Records from the Flight Inquiry Board convened after Bush was suspended as a pilot
Any evidence of Bush's reclassification into another AFSC after suspension as a pilot
Any photos of George Bush in a military uniform after 1972
Anything at all from any Alabama unit with Bush's name on it
Any copies of form 44a from the Alabama National Guard certifying attendance
Air Force Form 142 (Aviation Service Audit Worksheet)
Anything proving service (not just receipt of pay) by Bush between May 1972 and May 1973?
(And what is it precisely that the blathering right-wing pundits seem to think is missing from John Kerry's service records?)

Click here for a side-by-side comparison of publicly available military records of both GW Bush and John Kerry.

http://www.awolbush.com/kerry-vs-bush.asp

While Bush and Mush blame the terrorists, the Pakistani People are burning down Government buildings and posters of Mush. On every channel here in the homeland they hint that the terrorists are behind this!
Chris Matthews is on MSNBC opining that those who benefit most from the Assassination are the Terrorists, no mention of Pervez. Tweety says this is great for Rudolph, McCain, and Hillary.

2,292 days since WMD said he'd catch UBL??

The assassination is yet another reminder to American voters that we live in a cruel and dangerous world. Voters will soon have to decide whether they prefer candidates like Obama, Edwards, or Hillary to command the armed forces of the United States.

Presidential election, 2004
On January 1, 2004, Gen. Pervez Musharaf won 658 out of 1,170 votes in the Electoral College of Pakistan, and according to 'Article 41(8)' of the Constitution of Pakistan, was "deemed to be elected" to the office of President

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Pakistan

Poor old loony drindl, always letting facts get in the way of her rants.

Karachi, 27 Dec. (AKI) - (by Syed Saleem Shahzad) - A spokesperson for the al-Qaeda terrorist network has claimed responsibility for the death on Thursday of former Pakistani prime minister Benazir Bhutto.

http://www.adnkronos.com/AKI/English/Security/?id=1.0.1710322437

For those of you who are new to this blog, the individual called claudialong aka drindl is a loony leftist moonbat who lives here to spread disinformation. The best course of action is to ignore it, or correct its lies if you must.

most of the postings are pure hate and spite, replete with insults and non-sense or hysterical emotionalism. Any "fact" you see is highly suspect, as I have just shown.

"kingofzouk wrote: "OMG - terrorists still want to kill people??? Someone ought to tell the Dems."

Right now, the most likely and logical suspect is none other than President Pervez Musharraf, Dubya's main partner in the "War on Terror." So is he a terrorist? And if he is a terrorist then is the man who has provided more than $60 billion in aid and comfort joined the Axis of Evil in accordance with the Bush Doctrine?

Posted by: TominChicago | December 27, 2007 02:30 PM
'

On point. What are our billions over th