A blatant use of religious imagery, along with a plea for votes because you are religious makes a mockery of the standard that a person's religion is not a measure of suitability.Hopefully these types of candidates will be winnowed out after South Carolina. Let us get serious?

Chris, at 12:30 PM on MSNBC you mentioned that Huckabee is speaking to people with "faith at the center of their lives."

Certainly you meant to say "Huckabee is speaking to Christians with faith at the center of their lives."

Chris, America is now a multi cultural country. Jews, Muslims, Unitarians, etc all have "faith at the center of their lives." Clearly Huckabee was not speaking to them.

With sadlessness in my heart for your thoughtless comment.

Krh1

This one was pretty good

http://youtube.com/watch?v=iKyZl_XYInU

President Bush was squinting eagerly behind the wheel, trying to line up the deer over his steering wheel as he gunned the engine, playing 'Dixie' on his car horn "

LOL!! Yeah that pretty much sums it up, boko. But I would argue that Rummy was in the front seat pressing down with all his might onto the president's foot on that gas pedal.

Posted by: proudtobeGOP | December 20, 2007 10:46 AM
"

:)

"President Bush was squinting eagerly behind the wheel, trying to line up the deer over his steering wheel as he gunned the engine, playing 'Dixie' on his car horn "

LOL!! Yeah that pretty much sums it up, boko. But I would argue that Rummy was in the front seat pressing down with all his might onto the president's foot on that gas pedal.

dave writes
"Leaving Iraq is akin to taking our foot off the brake."

Interesting metaphor. I'm not sure that I entirely agree with the premise, but generally concede that we're better off sticking around for a while longer than just pulling up stakes & headin' fer home. Not that it'll ever happen, but I'm still for the Biden plan coupled with parts of the ISG's recommendations. Perhaps such steps won't be possible until Jan 2009.

Chris,

Saying the cross unintentional is another shining example of why you've made it so far in the political punditry world at such a young age (you're 31 now, right?). Those that have vetted you along the way love that you have a savant-like way of knowing when to be silent on anything that could be controversial. Never taking a stand and knowing when to obey at those most critical moments has been your greatest strength. I know for a fact that this great ability quiet yourself has been welcomed with open arms in the inners circles you have been let into. There were many like you in the media throughout this decade who have stood by obediently and dared not get in the way of the interest of their corporate bosses (ie. in the run up to the Iraq War), and I look forward to watching you serve in this role for many years to come.

Sincerely,

J.P.

How pathetic for Drudge & other campaigns to have to stretch their hatred and suggest that Huckabee is using subliminal-cult like powers to push a cross & christianity on people!

So Dave, by that logic, would you agree that in 2003, President Bush was squinting eagerly behind the wheel, trying to line up the deer over his steering wheel as he gunned the engine, playing 'Dixie' on his car horn while "Cooter" Rove giggled nervously in the back seat?

"Awwww, them deer!"

"JKrishnamurti - "Alright dave. If the surge is a sucess, why ae we in iraq? Why are we not coming home?"

I'll try it explaining it this way. If you are driving and you see a deer in the headlights, you step on the brakes. Hopefully, the brakes are working and slowing you down. If your goal is to not hit the deer, you A) keep stepping on the brake and certainly don't take your foot off of it and B) don't know about success or failure of that goal until your car comes to a stop (or hits the deer).

I think you (and many other Dems) are missing the point. We are still braking and slowing down trying to not hit the deer. We don't know how successful, if at all, the surge will be. Right now there are signs that the surge (braking) is producing some results (as I said before). Leaving Iraq is akin to taking our foot off the brake.

Tell that to mr "I don't recall".

Tell that to Pat tillman's family.

Tell that to the iraq people. Is life better or worse for them now? How many hundreds of thousands are saying nothing? Are some of those people innocent humans or all they all terrorists because of their skin tone?

Holy cow Zouk, you've officially gone off the deep end. The GOP has spent too much, but nowhere near what Democrats would have spent? Man, you just keep stretching and stretching for a cogent argument. Now you're comparing a very real GOP fiscal catastrophe to a hypothetical Democratic situation that doesn't even exist. Not even to mention we had a continually larger surplus every year from 1996-2000, suggesting another Democrat in the White House would have only continued that budget surplus by even greater amounts.

And I'm not ignoring anything that "anyone" says. If you haven't noticed, you're the only one here who attempts to debate with me, and you're failing miserably.

And I would certainly hope that the budget would be balanced with the Clinton military because Bush has either cut back or ruined every other non-military program since 2001 while pouring trillions of dollars into the Pentagon's unrestrained coffers. I sure would like to own stock in Lockheed-Martin right now, by the way.

And if your last muddle of confused babble was an attempt to discredit something I said about 9/11, please elaborate because what you said was basically "I don't have an argument for that so I'm done talking." Which might, actually, be a good thing.

zouk

"Fourth Amendment: guards against searches, arrests, and seizures of property without a specific warrant or a "probable cause" to believe a crime has been committed. Some rights to privacy have been inferred from this amendment and others by the Supreme Court. "

"Eighth Amendment: forbids excessive bail or fines, and cruel and unusual punishment.
"

"Ninth Amendment: declares that the listing of individual rights in the Constitution and Bill of Rights is not meant to be comprehensive; and that the other rights not specifically mentioned are retained elsewhere by the people. "

"Bearing in mind its resolution 1314(XIII) of 12 December 1958, by which it established the Commission on Permanent Sovereignty over Natural Resources and instructed it to conduct a full survey of the status of permanent sovereignty over natural wealth and resources as a basic constituent of the right to self-determination, with recommendations, where necessary, for its strengthening, and decided further that, in the conduct of the full survey of the status of the permanent sovereignty of peoples and nations over their natural wealth and resources, due regard should be paid to the rights and duties of States under international law and to the importance of encouraging international co-operation in the economic development of developing countries, "

http://www.taiwandocuments.org/un1803-XVII.htm

"226k - 32 sec @ 56k
This site uses Flash CIA Holds Terror Suspects in Secret Prisons - washingtonpost.com

CIA Holds Terror Suspects in Secret Prisons ... of officials in the United States and, usually, only to the president and a ..."

I can do this all day. But your not as dumb as you appear zouk. you just reject the laws. You don't deny these laws don't exist. You just think the gop doesn't have to follow.

"so according to rufas, one can compare actual crimes such as perjury, obstruction of justice, inappropriate sexual advances in the workplace, etc.

to

perceived policy differences with absolutely no criminal content.
"

Tell that to scooter libby. Clinton should have never got to that point. It was all a show. Waste of millions, to take the heat off somolia and other events.

zouk once again lies or displays ignorance. The "peace dividend" was the creation of none other than President George HW Bush and his secretary of defense, Dick Cheney.

crisis, you seem to have an ability to ignore anything anyone says and just continue on with your Lib talking points. that is why I suggested you interact with loud and dumb.

the idea that the military budget was sacrificed to balance the budget during the clinton years is a fact. it was called the peace dividend at the time. this was the same time clinton was fiddling with interns and al queda was planning attacks.

the repub congress did spend too much but it was still nothing compared to what the Libs would have spent. as I said, with the clinton military, the current budget would be balanced.

but despite all the liberal wishful thinking and the dancing and negotiating with terrorists and facsists during the 90s, this is still a dangerous world and we are not ready to end the US Army. That conclusion does not depend on any ongoing campaign in Iran or Iraq.

the fact that neither Iran or Iraq did not actually attack us on 9/11 betrays your partisan ignorance. this argument is so tired and discredited I simply don't have the energy to ridicule you further on this.

Negative Ads may have worked in prior campaigns. But we have not seen many campaigns where negative ads have been made the issue. It's true most dislike them, though they have some impact. So Huckabee's unorthodox response, wishing Merry Christmas instead of responding with his own negatives, may well be the key to defeating the negatives.

Ah Zouk, nice, you pull out the "blame Clinton" tactics. Repubs cry about Democrats blaming them for screwing things up last year and yet at the same time the Republicans are still blaming Clinton for their complete and utter failure to reign in out-of-control spending when their party ruled D.C. between 2000 and 2006.

Your entire argument is based on the idea of imminent attack - "our kids can pay or die" - and without that idea, your entire platform collapses. Considering neither Iran or Iraq had anything to do with 9/11, your argument that we must continue in Iraq and Iran to maintain security at home is in shambles, at best.

Meanwhile, the country that DID attack us is thriving in heroin production and the Taliban is at pre 9/11 strength, while our occupation of the region has now destabilized Turkey, Pakistan and Iran. I don't know about you but I am much less confident in the stability of the Middle East today than I was in 2002. We can thank Bush's expert military tactics for that blunder.

so according to rufas, one can compare actual crimes such as perjury, obstruction of justice, inappropriate sexual advances in the workplace, etc.

to

perceived policy differences with absolutely no criminal content.

all your yapping about crime doesn't make it so. Point me to one crime complete with evidence and I'll retract. Bush had a single advisor on a trumped up charge get convicted. clinton has his whole staff either in jail, dead or in witness protection.

Just like the Sopranos. how appropos.

You show your face zouk. go ahead. dig in a man's personal life. I'll take personal indistrections that effect nobody other than bill and his soup de jour, over the criminality of your president. Which affects all of us. That is the big differance between the parties.

The dem's indescresions effect local or individuals. The gop loves to trample the constitution. they are REAL criminals. The lewinski hearings were a scam to waste money and take you attention off somalia and other foreign events.

Again, teh differance is bush should be in jail. Clinton should be every adolencant boy's idol. In terms of socail behavior, not politics. Although line up the presidnets in terms of issus and success, failures. If you want a laugh.

Bush needs to go to jail. As does his criminal cabneit. think about the future. Clinton for a bj. that on the otherhand is political theature and fascism.

crisis - I must assume your are too much of a simpleton to understand debt to GDP ratio so I won't bother.

then there was that clinton recession bush inherited, the 9/11 attacks, you remember those don't you. I don't think your candidates do. Oh and the hurricanes, finance scandals, war, rebuilding the military, etc. Most of this stuff is a relic of the clinton era neglect.

despite all this - a 7 year expansion, record unemployment, low inflation.

In fact, if we cut the military back to the clinton levels, the budget would be balanced overnight. but there is that pesky enemy thing you Libs prefer to ignore. so our kids can pay or die? We all know which you Libs prefer. there is so much other spending to do.

dave - why would those vultures ever admit they were wrong. hillary clinton is incapable of admitting error. Harry Reid has the temerity of a jellyfish.

the funny thing is that they fault Bush for this personality feature. but bush fired Rumsfeld (after the election when it was least beneficial to him) and Bush changed the war strategy.

don't ever expect a clinton to admit a wrong. bill still can't admit he failed on terror, hillary that she flubbed health care and flunked the DC bar. that she changed her mind weekly on the war.

Remember the intern was all a vast right wing conspiracy - no truth to it. except for that pesky blue dress, they would still be denying it.

"I simply stated that you Libs like to rename things."

What part of "safe, legal, and rare" don't you get, zouk? Those are all pretty simple words, even for a simpleton like you.

Alright dave. If the surge is a sucess, why ae we in iraq? Why are we not coming home?

You set it will not be set by policitians. Is george bush still a politicain or king.

Zouk, if we're "growing out of our debt" then why did the Republican Congress have to raise the federal debt ceiling every year since the tax cuts, just to allow them to stay in Washington D.C.?

And why has Bush failed to balance the budget with his GOP Congress behind him between 2001 and 2006? It seems every year we go deeper into debt and Bush's only solution is to balance the budget by 2012, which is the last year of the next president's first term, meaning the new president would have to abide by Bush's fiscal policies for their entire term, which needless to say is virtually impossible.

Again, you have no idea what you are talking about. If you injected even an ounce of realism and common sense into your arguments, well, you'd probably implode. Maybe that's not a bad idea?

bsimon,
Sec Rice prognostications have nothing to do with the agreement reached in Congress. But I would say that was not one of her more thoughtful statements.

I would not go as far as they were 'clear and measurable' but there are goals that have not been met or met completely. I personally think that it was poorly formed - it makes little sense to think there will be any goals met while violence is raging. But then it needed to be that way politically. However, I think it's safe to say that Dems never thought for a moment that it would even reduce violence, thus the "failed plan" and derision from the very begining.

When the surge ends is the key time point (not some arbitrary date selected based on US politics). If at that time, there has not been sufficient progress politically, on infrastructure and training of Iraqi police, then there will be problems. The current relative calm at least gives them a chance.

Finally, few people could have imagined the current situation a year ago, tenuous as it is. Democrats, well versed in where the plan has fallen short, need to recognize and acknowledge that there has been substantial progress and improvement in Iraq. At least I have heard less of the "failed surge" rhetoric as of late.

"VERY SPECIFIC and rate circumstances"

we seem to be in one of those magic places. But my main argument was that you must grow your way out of debt because of the log-jam on any cuts in the Liberal congress. In the meantime, strangle the beast in its crib.

I am tired of paying the AMT. that one policy is why I quit buying real estate and I bet I'm not the only one.

I never stated how I personally felt about abortion above. I simply stated that you Libs like to rename things.

I do have a sound and firm anchor. I beleive it would be the utmost disaster for our country if the clintons get elected. Interesting how so few Dems on this site ever rise to defend those mobsters. but then you will all vote for them in the election. sounds like a remake of a bad John Kerry movie.

If Willard Mittens Romney gets the nomination the Dems can now run the usual ads showing him morphing into Bush, or vice versa.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071219/ap_po/romney_bush

KOZ - Here's a fun little editorial that notes how Bush's own economic advisers admit that tax cuts do not pay for themselves, except in VERY SPECIFIC and rate circumstances, let alone increase tax revenue:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/30/AR2007113002190.html

I assume you will opt not to respond. Also, good abortion rant. Funny how you usually refer to yourself as pro-choice, except when the opposite view lets you make smug statements. Truly sad sir -- you seem to be without any anchor at all.

dave-good point,makes you wonder how much did huckboom spend making that spot?

I think zouk is really for edwards, voter. I think he is just trying to make th gop look like morons. It's the only assesment that adds up. He can't possibly believe what he is saying is truth. so what does that make him? A propogandists or imcompetance. Like the ag gonzales. Is he a idiot or a criminal.

Has to be one fo the two. Either these people are traitors or sheep. I thought Fox and others had them in an imaginary world. Not so sure anymore. But being fascists is much more scary for my children than them being morons. And I don't think they're dumb.

dave, the Iraqis are still doing better than the Pelosi/Reid congress. they waited all year, didn't pass a budget, then on the last day, simply copied last year's budget and tried that.

CC - "No matter how much Huckabee would spend attacking Romney -- presumably on some of the inconsistencies in his record as governor -- Romney could always drown him out with more money and more ads."

I would argue that the number of ads (and to a point the amount of money spent for them) don't matter. The fact of the matter is that nobody outside of Iowa can really tell you about any of Romney's ads. Huck has put out two that have the buzz of the nation. In this instance, quality trumps quantity. If he can continue coming up with unique and extraordinarily effective ads like he has, he may not need to go negative.

"Wait, are you now saying that cutting taxes can reduce revenue? That directly conflicts with Rudy's economic plan, which you've touted before. Something's fishy here."

a few dozen posts ago, zouk also made nasty comments about the pro-choice position, which Rudy also backs, at least to a far greater extent than any other Repube candidate. Something else that's fishy.

dave writes
"A month after the surge reached full strength, Dems were quick to point out that it had failed and that the violence had not let up."

While I agree the Dems were a bit quick to criticize, in all fairness Sec Rice did say we'd see progress "In weeks, not months." Perhaps she promised more than could be delivered.

When the Petraeus hearings came along, he probably took a bit more heat than he deserved, but again, the metrics defined at the outset - by the Bush administration - had not been met. There were clear, measurable tasks set for the Iraqi gov't to accomplish, which they had not done then & still have failed to achieve.

While the military has reduced the violence, which is a good thing, it is unclear whether they will be able to maintain the relative calm as the surge reaches its natural conclusion & troops are rotated home according to schedule.

"Let's review. Before the plans for the surge were even briefed, Dems were quick to denounce it calling it failed before it ever got started."

And they were right. It has failed. It it is a sucess bring the troops home.

We are to be there only long enough for political consolidation. Not happening. Not going to happen. Does the guilt of the dead soldiers ever weigh on you people? how many more are you willing to sacrafice for politics, AND YOUR PRESIDENTS legacy?

I say not one dead soldier is worth this criminals pride. NONE. But maybe I am to tough. When you've been in the soldiers shoes, it looks a little differant. Like that could be me, or my brother or son. You know , and america child.

suprise suprise, zouk made a comment with out using the word lib. congrats, heres a cookie. it must be so great being right all the time*snicker* you on your high horse pulling all those informative and on point news articles and with all that free time on your hands. but really, did you even comment on the topic?

*crickets*

judge- i dunno considering the fact that the polls for iowa this late in the game is now moot. now it really comes down to the get out the vote operations and who's operation is better.

there is something else you Libs don't understand about us conservatives. We don't live and die by the daily poll like a clinton. bush is doing the right thing regardless of what the biased press writes and what the game-show watchers think. It is called integrity. you should try it sometime."

Waht you mean to say, is your not accountable to the people. Like a politcal party monarchy. But only republcains are your subjects. "In america no man can be under another unless they allow it." I have been hearing that arguement lately from your people. Why do you submit to men if you are chrsitians? Why do you submit to men if you yourself are free. The answer to both is, YOU ARE NEITHER.

And if you are loyal party loyalists to a king, what country are you a memeber of? It's not america. The land of Oz? Wonderland? Explain your twisted gop world perspective.

Posted by: JKrishnamurti | December 19, 2007 04:42 PM

Do you hear me on this zouk? do you agree that the gop is red coat party loyalists choosing party over country. And if so, is that treason? Do you still believe treason is not illegal and a normal process of government?

Batman writes
"I suggest you consult the Laffer curve. I don't have the patience to school you on simple economics."

Wait, are you now saying that cutting taxes can reduce revenue? That directly conflicts with Rudy's economic plan, which you've touted before. Something's fishy here.

claudialong - "Despite a reduction in violence in Iraq over the past three months, the Iraqi government has made no headway in improving the delivery of electricity, health care and other essential services..."

Let's review. Before the plans for the surge were even briefed, Dems were quick to denounce it calling it failed before it ever got started. Republicans suggested that the change in strategy be given a chance. A month after the surge reached full strength, Dems were quick to point out that it had failed and that the violence had not let up. Republicans suggested that we wait the agreed upon timeframe to see if there were any signs it was working. When that time came around, Dems said very little progress and "General Betrayus". Republicans suggested that there were signs that the surge was producing some results and violence was decreasing which could now allow for the other areas (political, infrastructure, etc) to progress. Now that reduction in violence is continuing, Dems are apparently complaining that Rome should be built in a day. What is apparent to many, that construction and infrastucture can't be built while violence was high and that improving conditions does not mean that business/working conditions automatically translate into Japan-like efficiency overnight, seems to escape many Dems. Maybe Dems should show some patience for a change.

"After the Bush tax cuts, the economy has been on a record expansion - growing out of our debt."

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Fantasy island. Do you ever watch real news? Seriously.

simple simon, I suggest you consult the Laffer curve. I don't have the patience to school you on simple economics.

jaymills, I think you should engage loud and dumb. the two of you seem to have the same drive-by, two-line style of insults and inanities. I admit I may be too much for you. I know math and logic is hard, but it holds the key to understanding if you are able to make the effort.

Of course, you may not be able. that is why I highly reccommened loud and dumb as your peer. you can also trade non-sequiters with rufas. he is a good sport, although cosmic.

"After the Bush tax cuts, the economy has been on a record expansion - growing out of our debt."

Funny how the value of US equities hasn't grown at all since Bush took office. We're talking almost seven years now. Funny sad, not funny ha-ha, of course.

Interesting article on polling error at http://www.pollster.com/blogs/frankovic_on_iowas_challenge_f.php

Maybe Obama's lead in IA is a myth?

zouk-sorry, what was your point again? you said the word lib and just scrolled right past you. are you like rudy and the only words you can say is a noun a verb and 9/11?

or in your case a noun, a verb and lib?

"Leave it to simple simon to get such a basic notion wrong."

Mr Dumas, you clearly misread what I wrote. I will repeat it for you here:

"Crisis, you clearly don't understand how tax cuts increase revenue. The GOP is very clear on this obvious causal relationship between gov't revenue & tax cuts."

Which is exactly what you claim, isn't it? And given that tax cuts boost revenue, wouldn't cutting taxes more boost revenue higher? Surely you're not saying this process can't be repeated forever?

Factually - tax revenues did increase after the Bush tax cuts.

Leave it to simple simon to get such a basic notion wrong.

Policy - the Libs will never allow reduced spending except on the military (can lead to problems later as we have discovered) so in practice the only way to get rid of debt is to grow out of it. After the Bush tax cuts, the economy has been on a record expansion - growing out of our debt.

Lib economics must rely on reducing military spending and exposing us to foreign danger, just like clinton did. all other spending rises astronomically and according to the loudness of your special interest and donations to the clinton library, of course.

"Cafferty: It looks like family values aren't the campaign issue they used to be. "USA Today" reports that in this election cycle, so-called "family values" are lower on the agenda. Of course, Republicans have made family values a staple of their political campaigns for three decades now.

Randall writes: "People have finally figured out that family values was just a red herring, a Republican bumper sticker slogan which was used to keep people from paying attention to the real issues, i.e. the Iraq war, the skyrocketing deficit, the recession we're in, a lack of single-pay health insurance for everyone, and a government that has never worked for the people, but only for the military industrial complex and for big business."

"

Jack cafferty. Coming through again. I stopping watching wolf and cnn and their website due to several horrible stroies and lies. Like the "Torture produces good intel" they had on the front page last week. While leaving out the part that the cia guy who said this SAID WATER BOARDING WAS TORTURE. Left that part out, on the front page. Unconscinable.

Fox-lite. I thought it fitting that they had to pull a red alert iran nuke special because of the intel that they stopping their nuke program almost half a decade ago. That was nice. To bad Cafferty wasn't running th news over there.

The repbulcains are (the CLINTON news network). Just like they are puppeting clinton.

"how much of the clinton library did you have to buy to get all that stuff?"

The Clintons owe at least 165 million in favors for their library collections alone. It's the gift that keeps on giving.

ahhahahahahah awesome.

thecrisis: There's no such thing as GOP economic policy. Just fantasy. That's why a highly respected conservative economist like Bruce Bartlett is making it his life's work to see that idiocy like the FairTax (top supporter: Mike Huckabee) is never enacted.

What a crock about the "floating cross" - complete with a nice bowl of ornaments - behind Huckabee. Just another ploy by the Romney folks to trash him. And I'm no Huck fan...

http://www.political-buzz.com/

thecrisis writes
"THE MONEY LOST BY THE TAX CUT IS CURRENTLY BEING SPENT ELSEWHERE IN GOVERNMENT."

Crisis, you clearly don't understand how tax cuts increase revenue. The GOP is very clear on this obvious causal relationship between gov't revenue & tax cuts. In fact, its an open secret that the only reason they haven't cut taxes to zero is because the economy would overheat at such an astronomical rate we'd have a core meltdown a la the China Syndrome.

"head in the sand -- a good approach to bad news.

Posted by: LoudounVoter | December 19, 2007 04:32 PM
"

It's not news unless it comes from fox rush savage or malkin. otherwise it is partisan attacks. The "liberal" scientists/media/judges/schools//actors or whatever boogyman they want to point to. Anyone that is not exactly like them will do. Slave clones robots. The borg, with Rush and murdoch as the few brains amoung them.

Let's free these old people. Let's break their chains and free them. Who's with me. :) .

Proud - how much of the clinton library did you have to buy to get all that stuff?

lv-true take zouk for example.

*I personally support Rudy and note that he still leads in the national polls which defies almost everything all you moonbats said all year. there will be ups and downs but hillary and rudy are still up and short term bumps are nothing to get excited about.*

you may not know this, but THIS IS NOT A CORINATION, THIS IS A PRIMARY! National polls are irrelvant at this point! pay attention to the state polls, and they tell a vastly different story.

but your right, the head in the sand approach does work for zouk!

"there is something else you Libs don't understand about us conservatives. We don't live and die by the daily poll like a clinton. bush is doing the right thing regardless of what the biased press writes and what the game-show watchers think. It is called integrity. you should try it sometime."

Waht you mean to say, is your not accountable to the people. Like a politcal party monarchy. But only republcains are your subjects. "In america no man cannot be under another unless they allow it." I have been hearing that arguement lately from your people. Why do you submit to men if you are chrsitians? Why do you submit to men if you yourself are free. The answer to both is, YOU ARE NEITHER.

And if you are loyal party loyalists to a king, what country are you a memeber of? It's not america. The land of Oz? Wonderland? Explain your twisted gop world perspective.

ZOUK, THE MONEY LOST BY THE TAX CUT IS CURRENTLY BEING SPENT ELSEWHERE IN GOVERNMENT.

I don't know how to make it any clearer than that. If you go and buy a car that costs you $1,000/month in payments, and then you lose part of your income and you can't make the payments, you need to either cut your payment down or increase your income elsewhere to be able to handle the loss in income. How can you not understand this? Either you don't understand English or you're in $10,000 in personal credit card debt...or possibly both, with your logic.

On the other hand, McCain has gone around the U.S. making speeches about how cutting taxes bolsters the economy and therefore increases tax revenue in the long run, a ridiculous and absurd economic proposition that has been disproved time and time again by economists. Yet, GOP politicians continue to think that by reducing revenue, we are increasing revenue. That really is the magical GOP pipe dream, isn't it? Cut all taxes and you'll bring in more tax revenue than ever!

If there's anything more absurd than GOP economic policy, I'd certainly like to see it, because where I come from, government programs require money and taxes are the only way to get that money. Coming to grips with the fact that as Americans, having to pay taxes is a necessary evil. No magic GOP double-talk can get around that.

The 12 Days of Christmas, politically (in)correct version:
-----------------------------------------

On the first day of Christmas the Clintons gave to me

A pardon from Bill & Hillary

On the second day of Christmas the Clintons gave to me

2 nights in the Lincoln bedroom
and a pardon from Bill & Hillary

On the third day of Christmas the Clintons gave to me

3 deconstructionist poets
2 nights in the Lincoln bedroom
and a pardon from Bill & Hillary

On the fourth day of Christmas the Clintons gave to me

4 hours of recorded whale songs
3 deconstructionist poets
2 nights in the Lincoln bedroom
and a pardon from Bill & Hillary

On the fifth day of Christmas the Clinton gave to me

5 blue dresses
4 hours of recorded whale songs
3 deconstructionist poets
2 nights in the Lincoln bedroom
and a pardon from Bill & Hillary

On the sixth day of Christmas the Clintons gave to me

6 cruise missiles
5 blue dresses
4 hours of recorded whale songs
3 deconstructionist poets
2 nights in the Lincoln bedroom
and a pardon from Bill & Hillary

On the seventh day of Christmas the Clintons gave to me

7 lawyers calling
6 cruise missiles
5 blue dresses
4 hours of recorded whale songs
3 deconstructionist poets
2 nights in the Lincoln bedroom
and a pardon from Bill & Hillary

On the eighth day of Christmas the Clintons gave to me

8 autographed ci-gars
7 lawyers calling
6 cruise missiles
5 blue dresses
4 hours of recorded whale songs
3 deconstructionist poets
2 nights in the Lincoln bedroom
and a pardon from Bill & Hillary

On the 9th day of Christmas the Clintons gave to me

9 economically disadvantaged female persons stealing milk-products from enslaved Bovine-Americans
8 autographed ci-gars
7 lawyers calling
6 cruise missiles
5 blue dresses
4 hours of recorded whale songs
3 deconstructionist poets
2 nights in the Lincoln bedroom
and a pardon from Bill & Hillary

On the tenth day of Christmas the Clinons gave to me

10 years probation
9 economically disadvantaged female persons stealing milk-products from enslaved Bovine-Americans
8 autographed ci-gars
7 lawyers calling
6 cruise missiles
5 blue dresses
4 hours of recorded whale songs
3 deconstructionist poets
2 nights in the Lincoln bedroom
and a pardon from Bill & Hillary

On the 11th day of Christmas the Clintons gave to me

11 table dancers
10 years probation
9 economically disadvantaged female persons stealing milk-products from enslaved Bovine-Americans
8 autographed ci-gars
7 lawyers calling
6 cruise missiles
5 blue dresses
4 hours of recorded whale songs
3 deconstructionist poets
2 nights in the Lincoln bedroom
and a pardon from Bill & Hillary

On the 12th day of Christmas the Clintons gave to me

12 males reclaiming their inner warrior through ritual drumming
11 table dancers
10 years probation
9 economically disadvantaged female persons stealing milk-products from enslaved Bovine-Americans
8 autographed ci-gars
7 lawyers calling
6 cruise missiles
5 blue dresses
4 hours of recorded whale songs
3 deconstructionist poets
2 nights in the Lincoln bedroom
and a pardon from Bill & Hillary

thank you. thank you very much.

"lv-what edwards rumor?

Posted by: jaymills1124 | December 19, 2007 04:03 PM
"

Yeah check the breaking national enquier news. Right next to bat boy, and nostradomous lives. Hey it's better than going after haircuts. the gop is a party of clowns. they are done

"what was the point you were trying to make again?

Posted by: jaymills1124 | December 19, 2007 04:21 PM

I keep forgetting that you Libs have such a short attention span and such a limited intellect. I will try to keep my responses to hand raising only or single line musings. If I feel I must go over two lines - ( A Lib no-no), I will sprinkle the post with insults and nastiness to maintain your attention.

will that work for you? that way you can avoid any substance altogether, just like your candidates.

lol jaymills i don't put any stock in it, but you'd think an edwards diehard and prolific poster like brooks would have something to say about it.

"Senate OKs $70 Billion for Iraq, Afghanistan The Senate voted Tuesday to provide $70 billion for U.S. military efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan, handing a victory to President Bush and his GOP allies on Capitol Hill

We surrender...again. -the Libs. We are out to prove we can be just as weak at home as we have tried to be overseas. We have jello-spined leaders who lead the way to cowardice and supine bewilderment. thanks harry and Nancy for showing us the true Lib colors. as usual you will claim it's not your fault. that is some leadership.

Posted by: kingofzouk | December 19, 2007 03:59 PM
"

aGREE TO kING gEORGE'S DEMANDS OR HE WILL HUFF AND PUFF AND SHUT OUR GOVENRMNET DOWN FOR A YEAR. Stomping his hands and feet on the ground until he gets everything exactly how he demands it. Or else no government. A la newt after the coup of 94'. Over a BJ.

Does the gop really have that little faith in the american people. do you rally think the people ar ewith you. They were for impeaching clinton over a bj. Do you really think the republcains will get another person in the white house in the next 30 years? After the incompetance and criminality of the last 25 years of gop (and moderate republcain clinton) rule? Well, they are not.

lv-i found the link but there was no story. um i wouldnt put much stock into it since it came from the enquirer.

head in the sand -- a good approach to bad news.

there is something else you Libs don't understand about us conservatives. We don't live and die by the daily poll like a clinton. bush is doing the right thing regardless of what the biased press writes and what the game-show watchers think. It is called integrity. you should try it sometime.

similarly, we don't react to hourly polls about candidates. We are taking our time and studying our options. Each one has certain plusses and minusses. since you seem to be determined to nominate hillary, it is very important that we pick the best one as he will be the next president.

I personally support Rudy and note that he still leads in the national polls which defies almost everything all you moonbats said all year. there will be ups and downs but hillary and rudy are still up and short term bumps are nothing to get excited about. unless you are a clintonista and live by the hourly polls. you may have to send out your gestapo to waterboard someones' kindergarten teacher if you sink down another point. Or you could dig up some bimbo eruptions to equalize the playing field. just don't release any documents or otherwise answer any prying questions before election day.

I think Huckabee's ad was brilliant and moving, and I'm neither a Christian or a Republican.

zouk-im sorry, i just stopped reading when you typed the words libs and clinton. what was the point you were trying to make again?

jaymills: scroll up on this board or check the ron paul board. when you read about you'd certainly expect an edwards diehard like brooks to respond. but no.

same for zouk and the latest poll results showing rudy in free-fall.

I know you Libs are slow but I was actually just trying to refute your use of the term "expenses" to describe tax cuts. I think it is important to agree on basic definitions of words when confronting clintinistas. you never know when " is" means something totally different. for example pro-choice means you support killing babies, although it would be hard to tell by how Libs refer to the practice.

In this case I am not disputing that the government should spend less money. I am disputing that the government is entitled to my money with no explanation and if they are somehow deprived of it, it is considered an "expense" on their part.

It is simple philosophy. Libs think all rights come down from big government and if you behave, the nice Feds will write you a check and reward you with some of its money.

Repubs think that rights and responsibilites are granted TO the government by the people and that only the most essential needs are to be handed to them. they are not to be trusted, especially with my money. I may give them a little for the military, but that's it.

I understand you prefer to hand your entire paycheck over to hillary and then go begging for some of it back. I prefer she come begging to me.

bsimon-what's happening is this, the more people look at rudy, well the less they like him. i dont think the firewall of florida/super tuesday is going to hold up much longer. take a look at hillary's oh so commanding leading in new hamsh-wait you mean she's not leading in NH? oh darn.

oh yeah i found this poll on south carolina,

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/south_carolina/election_2008_south_carolina_democratic_primary

its a dead heat so anything can change between now and the primary.

Chris:

I think it is political genius to not roll over and go negative. The media loves a good fight and in my political experience it is much better not to respond to your opponents negativity. Iowa especially is not a go negative state. Most newbies to the political arena go negative there and walk away realizing they beat up themselves. Huckabee's momentum has caused his funds last month to be all of the former 9 months combined. Huckabee has lost a bit here in South Carolina as Romney and another organization have put large sums of money into negative advertising. Rasmussen's new poll here show a dead heat with both Romney and Huckabee at 23%. Romney is up 5 points while Huckabee is down 2 from the last poll in early December. Instead of going negative Huckabee runs a, "Merry Christmas" add. The media will be off the subject and start talking about his new ad.

Albert Milliron
Politisite.com

Lv writes
"still waiting for a single comment from zouk on the latest poll results."

Which poll, the one showing Rudy losing ground to Huckabee? It is strange that the Rudy supporters haven't at least claimed its one of those Lib Zogby polls. Oh... Wait... Zogby's not one of the Lib pollsters. Hmmm.

lv-what edwards rumor?

It would be like asking a potential retiree if he has considered the additional "expense' of taking a part-time job instead of a full time job. Yes he is receiving less money each month, but he doesn't call it an expense, he calls it less income and he spends less on other things. He is not entitled to a certain income for ever, just like the Republican government. But not like the Lib one. they have expenses, you see.
Posted by: kingofzouk | December 19, 2007 03:52 PM

ok so in other words, i retire, and go out and blow my money on a mustang,get a job as a store greeter making minium wage and complain about not being able to pay the car note.

ok so its ok not to be fiscally responsible? because thats what your just proved crisis point. dunno what was your job again? economics?

crisis-i wouldnt bother commenting with him anymore, my 2:59PM comment proves it.

Senate OKs $70 Billion for Iraq, Afghanistan The Senate voted Tuesday to provide $70 billion for U.S. military efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan, handing a victory to President Bush and his GOP allies on Capitol Hill

We surrender...again. -the Libs. We are out to prove we can be just as weak at home as we have tried to be overseas. We have jello-spined leaders who lead the way to cowardice and supine bewilderment. thanks harry and Nancy for showing us the true Lib colors. as usual you will claim it's not your fault. that is some leadership.

still waiting for a single comment from zouk on the latest poll results.

also waiting for a comment from brooks on the edwards rumors. babbling brooks is running silently today.

crisis - you may attempt to use words that mean other things, like your heroes the clintons use "is' for "was' and "single document blocked' for "all documents blocked" but we Repubs refuse to accept the Dem idea that tax cuts for tax payers is an "expense". It is less income but the word expense implies that it is required bill that must be paid, like a utility bill.

It would be like asking a potential retiree if he has considered the additional "expense' of taking a part-time job instead of a full time job. Yes he is receiving less money each month, but he doesn't call it an expense, he calls it less income and he spends less on other things. He is not entitled to a certain income for ever, just like the Republican government. But not like the Lib one. they have expenses, you see.

There is hyprocrisy in all of us to varing degrees. Nobody is immune to their darker side. So its just a matter who wants to be honest with themselves and those who do not that courage for self-examination.

Zouk, a tax cut is indeed spending if that lost revenue was being used for something.

Democrats demand that if we are to cut the AMT tax, costing $50 billion, we either need to cut $50 billion from spending or raise $50 billion in new taxes. For the record, if we rolled back the tax incentives for major oil companies (Bush wanted to do it in 2005 and now he doesn't...corporate ties, anyone?) that would be a huge start to offsetting the lost $50 billion.

Really man, you need to go out and read something that isn't Malkin, Coulter or any other idiot stick figure bobblehead GOP pundit. Hell, if you even read the articles on Washington Post in their entirety you would understand why the GOP is yet again proclaiming their immense fiscal irresponsibility with this AMT fix.

WASHINGTON -- Harry Reid, the Senate majority leader, has called President Bush a loser and a liar and has referred to him derisively as King George. Mr. Reid has also apologized -- but only, he likes to point out, for the "loser" line.

But not since 1919, when Henry Cabot Lodge called Woodrow Wilson "the most sinister figure that ever crossed the country's path," has a Senate majority leader appeared to harbor such deep and utter disdain, even loathing, for a president, as Mr. Reid does for Mr. Bush.

what a no-class loser of a dust speck of a non-man in Reid:

Mr. Reid's father was a hard-rock miner, an alcoholic who suffered depression and committed suicide. His mother washed laundry for brothels.

another Lib trailer trash like clinton ruining the party. when in doubt - go ugly early.

Clinton is a moderate republcain now. clinton is the same as bush. Fear teh yale (republcain) plan. Come on your smart enough to see the moderate sell-outs in the democratic party. Teh dinos.

Lieberman kerry clinton di fi rockafeller reid. Sell-outs. moderate republcains now.

What I said about the republcains also aplies to clinton. I am not a republcain. i am not a hypocrite. unlike you people I say accountability for all. thank you for making my point about clinton, though. and why she is done and falling like a rock. Wasn't she on fox the other day?

Wonder what they will get for that money if Hillary should win?

10 felony pardons, 16 overnight stays in the Lincoln bedroom and all you can eat WH dinners. I just ordered up some stuff for myself. you can see the menu and the prices on her website.

Not sure you libs should talk about Saudi money seeing that we just found out they contributed over 10 million dollars to Clinton's Library since he left office. Wonder what they will get for that money if Hillary should win?

"Morgan Stanley to Sell Stake to China Amid Loss
By MICHAEL J. de la MERCED and KEITH BRADSHER 11:00 AM ET
The bank said it would sell a $5 billion stake to China's sovereign wealth fund as it posted a loss after taking a new $5.7 billion write-down related to mortgages.
"
http://www.nytimes.com/

It's funny you mention that crisis. The gop is selling out to our enemies. They don't care. teh money is green. Anyone see the citi bailout last month by saudi's neighbors? their money is green. Who cares what they use it for, right gop? Gives you more enemies to fight for profit later. Arm them. Give them out treasure and blood. sell the coutnry to the terrorists. then what?

the gop is in with the terrorists and our enemies. Reserach Murdochs china ties.

Sad day in america when choosing outside money over country is NOT treason.

"Show me where treason is illegal". that's what zouk says. Throw them in jail to fix our issues people. If you are scared or unwillinging to hold traitors and criminals to account, like bush and cheaney, we don't have a nation. We are a nation of laws, lest we forget.

So it is official Democrat policy that there will be no tax cuts - ever. Only increased spending and taxing. Dems operate a one-way street to financial ruin.

BTW, tax cuts are not government spending, although I know you Libs think you are entitled to all of everyone's money and that you may consider giving some poor people a little back.

the government needs to make a good case as to why they need more of my money, not the other way around. It is my money and if the government makes a good case for why they need it, I may go along. but expanding government health care is not going to be acceptable - including adults in a children only program for example.

regarding the AMT and many other things (War in Iraq, anyone?): so much for Bush's PROMISE not to pass along the cost of anything to our grandchildren.

A republcain scientist is not a real scienist zouk, as your studies have shown. Everyone knows their are two realities.

Reality.

And republcain reality.

Reality does not enter into your heads. only propoganda and how you can get what you want. You always have a bogus repbulcain survey or study that keeps your clones in line. We see you know. your party of clone party loyalist traitors are done. i know clinton is the repbulcain deam cnadidate. Not going to happen. We see what you are doing now.

We are smarter than your people zouk. you cannot win. itis impossible to beat truths with lies spina nd propognada. Impossible. Try as you might. your party is done. Without the sabotuers desotrying everything in their path we can build. Detroy what we build at your own peril. Enjoy your jail time zouk, for treason.

"The first and biggest Republican victory comes in the form of the omnibus spending bill, which funds nearly every government agency. Not only does the bill, which was handed down yesterday morning, match President Bush's funding levels, but it also contains none of the so-called "policy-riders" that Republicans had most feared, such as the abolition of the government's Mexico City policy and even an expected expansion of union-backed "prevailing wage" rules"

Because like little children bush threatened to shut down the government if he did nto get all his demands. So says the congressman from ny. Just like gingrich did. Sht down the government if everyhing is not your way. SAbotuer fascists.

Zouk, you half-wit. You know as well as I that the AMT fix hasn't been passed because while Democrats wanted to fill the revenue gap generated by the tax cut, the Republicans are DEMANDING that we spend $50 billion without paying for it somewhere else. If democrats are tax&spend, then republicans are just spend&spend.

I'm so fed up with the great American myth that is GOP "fiscal conservatism" I'm about to snap. The GOP has been the most fiscally wasteful political party of the last decade and I'm sick of them lying to taxpayers, passing spending bills and cutting the taxes that pay for the spending at the same time. With any GOP luck, in a few years we'll be owned entirely by the Chinese.

you know when the more conservative posters on the board wont comment on their front runners and instead launch into ad hominem attacks on democrats and/or liberals you finally realize something.

they are so screwed come 2008.

back on topic-i saw the aformentioned huckboom spot, well it was nice until i saw the big white plus sign(thats what i thought it was at first) look i would have to agree to a point that it was pretty innocent until you gotta realize it was subtle message to the evangelicals that he's one of them. i wouldnt be suprised if you played the ad backwards and heard the words "paul is dead, paul is dead"

but contrast that with the obama ad giving out seasons greatings with his family(huh i wonder where's huckboom's family right now?) it was very heart warming and sincere. maybe all canidates for the time being knock off the attack ads during x-mas.

but of course after chrismas day, you can go back to slinging monkeycrap at each other.

"You are not a scientist zouk"

Actually, I am.

look at zouk talk about everything except rudy's collapsing poll numbers.

If the Dems had a mandate, they sure didn't act like it:

The first and biggest Republican victory comes in the form of the omnibus spending bill, which funds nearly every government agency. Not only does the bill, which was handed down yesterday morning, match President Bush's funding levels, but it also contains none of the so-called "policy-riders" that Republicans had most feared, such as the abolition of the government's Mexico City policy and even an expected expansion of union-backed "prevailing wage" rules.

2) The omnibus itself represents a major Republican victory, but that's not all. The bill currently includes only funding for the Afghanistan war, but by the time it passes it will include full and unconditional Iraq supplemental funding, ending yet another legislative crisis in the Republicans' favor. The Iraq money will be added by amendment in the Senate. This portion of the amended bill will then pass the House largely on Republican votes.

In essence, Democrats are capitulating on the Iraq question for a second time this year, after being elected with a clear mandate to hasten the unpopular war's end -- a bitter double-defeat that comes after dozens of symbolic votes on the war. And Democratic House members will be voting (probably today) to start a process that they know will continue the war funding -- voting for it before voting against it. It will enrage the Left and, oddly, make President Bush -- who has never understood, negotiated with, nor cooperated well with even Republican congresses -- appear to be some kind of legislative mastermind.

On the Alternative Minimum Tax, Democrats have already lost this one through inaction

How did it come to this? To be sure, Senate Republicans have the numbers to block some legislation by filibuster. They probably would have held the line regardless on some issues -- the AMT, for example. Yet good-faith negotiations probably would have produced a compromise on SCHIP, the spending bills, and the energy bill, with Democrats and moderate Republicans providing enough votes to pass something at least palatable for a presidential signature. Yet there was little good faith or negotiation. On the energy bill, Pelosi was violating a pre-existing agreement on how to proceed with the bill -- this process problem made it easier for Senate Republicans to convince moderate colleagues such as Sens. Ted Stevens (R-Alaska) and Arlen Specter (R., Pa.) to vote no.

On S-CHIP, Democrats decided to turn the issue into a political blood sport rather than work toward a compromise. They ran ads against House Republicans on the issue while the debate was still going on, instead of building a serious coalition that could have reached a serious compromise and forced the president's hand in expanding the welfare state.

House Democrats' inflexibility and subordination of policy to politics led them to Waterloo this week. They are a majority that has used the tactics of a minority, and it hasn't worked very well.

Meanwhile, the minority party -- a party that is likely to stay in the minority through the next election -- is routing Pelosi on five bills in a single week. Next year is an election year, in which little will likely be accomplished. So the second session of this Congress may prove to be as mercifully unproductive as the first.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NDQwMjZiYTgxOGE3OGUzMWJkMDcwN2YyYWU0YjkzNWY=&w=MQ==

always the losers

You are not a scientist zouk. The scientists made up their mind. rush has been lying to you. Like always. Why is that so hard to understand?

Read up a little more and you will understand where cooling comes into play with global warming. Or just burn all the books. Is the earth flat zouk?

"Gore thought it was a good idea to leave his seat and awkwardly stalk George W. Bush in the final debate of the 2000 season"

Yeah. SOOO important. Really telling about what you people value. You pick candidates on this nonsense? Really? What about the isues. Now we see why we are in the deep water as a nation. You old folk pick your politicans based on "morals" and values" and "imaginary polite rules". Larry Craig. that's all I have to say. George bush. It's all a show for the old folk.

What abotu the issues? Or select a president based on 3 minutes of ONE debate. Please join reality. Please gop