Friday House Line: A Special Special Election in Illinois?
Tomorrow's special election in Illinois' 14th District could hold vital clues about the kind of election we'll see in the fall.
The seat -- being vacated by former House Speaker Dennis Hastert (R) -- should be a relatively easy hold for Republicans. President Bush carried the district by double digits in 2000 and 2004, and Hastert has had no trouble winning re-election easily for the last several terms.
But, with just 24 hours left before votes are cast, both sides acknowledge the race between dairy magnate Jim Oberweis (R) and scientist Bill Foster (D) is quite close.
The on-the-ground contest between Oberweis and Foster has largely played out to form. Foster and fellow Democrats are working to tie Oberweis to President Bush and the war in Iraq. Oberweis and the NRCC are attacking Foster as a tax-and-spend Democrat.
On a candidate level, Oberweis has problems. He has run unsuccessfully for statewide office three times -- losing primary races for Senate in 2002 and 2004, and for governor in 2006 -- and even some Republicans acknowledge that he doesn't wear very well with voters. Foster won't light the world on fire as a candidate, according to Democratic insiders, but has run a steady and disciplined campaign to date.
A sure sign of the closeness of the race? The Oberweis campaign released a polling memo on Thursday showing their candidate at 47 percent, compared to Foster's 45 percent -- a lead well within the survey's 4.2 percent margin of error. The goal of the memo was to show positive growth in Oberweis' direction but the narrowness of the margin shows that this race is a true toss-up.
Sensing vulnerability/opportunity, the two national parties have weighed in heavily over the past few weeks.
The National Republican Congressional Committee has spent $1.2 million on the race, according to reports filed Thursday with the Federal Election Commission. That spending amounts to nearly one-fifth of the $6.4 million the NRCC had on hand at the end of January, the last month for which fundraising reports are available.
The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee has also spent more than $1 million on the race, although that expenditure is a small chunk of the $35 million the organization had in the bank at the close of January.
Why is so much money and attention being devoted to a single race in March? Because both sides know that special elections are widely seen by donors, activists and the media as leading indicators of the general election to come. The issues and messages that work (or don't) are widely regarded as a litmus test for upcoming regular elections.
DCCC communications director Jen Crider sought to cast the race in just those terms. "Illinois' 14th district shows that, like in 2006, Democrats are facing a favorable environment this year," she said. "Voters from across the political spectrum are responding to change candidates like Bill Foster who are committed to strengthening the economy and ending the war."
The NRCC, on the other hand, downplayed the national significance of the vote. "Bill Foster might think that throwing money at problems is the solution to Washington's financial mess, but raising taxes and spending recklessly is certainly not the solution to the problems Illinois voters are facing," said NRCC spokesman Ken Spain.
Recent political history says either side could be right about local versus national implications.
In 1994, special election victories in spring by Reps. Frank Lucas (R-Okla.) and Ron Lewis (R-Ky.) in conservative-leaning districts held by Democrats were widely interpreted -- in hindsight -- as the first signs of the growing Republican wave that carried the GOP to a 52-seat pickup and control of the House.
Of course, for every Lucas and Lewis there are competitive special elections that wound up as isolated incidents rather than signals of things to come. In 2004, Democrats picked up Republican-held seats in South Dakota and Kentucky but that November only managed a two-seat net gain.
Both sides see the 14th District race as a potential harbinger, however, and that explains the amount of money being spent.
While the Illinois special election is the big news on the House front of late, we NEVER neglect the other races nationwide. Below you'll find the Line. As always, the number one ranked race represents as seat most likely to change parties in November.
Agree or disagree with The Fix's take on the 10 most vulnerable House seats? Write your own line or offer thoughts on ours in the comments section.
To the Line!
10. Ohio's 15th District (OPEN, GOP-held): Unlike his colleague in the open 16th District race (more on that below), state Sen. Steve Stivers (R) won a convincing victory on Tuesday and continues to impress as a candidate. Republicans are as optimistic about this seat as any in the country but remember that Franklin County Commissioner Mary Jo Kilroy (D) came within 1,500 votes of beating Rep. Deborah Pryce (R) in 2006 and is back again. (Previous ranking: 8)
9. Minnesota's 3rd District (OPEN, GOP-held): All is quiet in the race to replace Rep. Jim Ramstad (R). State Sen. Erik Paulsen has a clear path to the Republican nomination, while state Sen. Terri Bonoff is considered the favorite on the Democratic side. In 2006, Minnesota went overwhelmingly for Democrats at nearly every level of government. Will that trend continue this November? (Previous ranking: 10)
8. New Mexico's 1st District (OPEN, GOP-held): On paper, this district should be in the top five on the Line. Based in Albuquerque, the 1st went for Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.) by a 51 percent to 48 percent margin in 2004. But, Republicans have a top-tier candidate in Bernalillo County Sheriff Darren White, while Democrats seem headed toward a tough primary. (Previous ranking: 9)
7. New Jersey's 7th District (OPEN, GOP-held): Republicans -- led by state Sen. Leonard Lance and Kate Whitman, the daughter of the Garden State's former governor -- are in the midst of the grueling county endorsement season. Meanwhile, state Assemblywoman Linda Stender, who very nearly ousted incumbent (but departing) Rep. Mike Ferguson (R) in 2006, runs unopposed for the Democratic nod. (Previous ranking: 7)
6. New Jersey's 3rd District (OPEN, GOP-held): Rep. Jim Saxton (R) held this district for 24 years due to his ability to co-opt a number of moderate voters. His preferred successor may not be so lucky. Need evidence? The Sierra Club, which has always endorsed Saxton in his re-election races, went with state Sen. John Adler (D) this time around. (Previous ranking: 4)
5. Arizona's 1st District (OPEN, GOP-held): The indictment of incumbent Rep. Rick Renzi (R) (who will retire after this term) on 36 criminal counts -- including conspiracy, wire fraud and money laundering -- is sure to dominate the news in this vast northern Arizona district for weeks and months to come. That's bad news given that Republicans are still casting around for a candidate while establishment Democrats have largely lined up behind former state Rep. Ann Kirkpatrick. (Previous ranking: 5)
4. Virginia's 11th District (OPEN, GOP-held): Republicans' lone hope in this Democratic-leaning Northern Virginia district is that the primary campaign between former Rep. Leslie Byrne and Fairfax County Board of Supervisors Chairman Gerry Connolly gets nasty quickly and stays that way. It just might. (Previous ranking: 3)
3. Illinois' 11th District (OPEN, GOP-held): Remember when we wrote how disappointing New Lenox Mayor Tim Baldermann (R) had been as a candidate? He must have agreed, abruptly ending his bid late last month. Turmoil abounds on the Republican side, while state Sen. Debbie Halvorson (D) runs unimpeded. (Previous ranking: 6)
2. Ohio's 16th District (OPEN, GOP-held): State Sen. Kirk Schuring, the preferred successor of Rep.
Ralph Regula (R) (who will retire this fall), won Tuesday's Republican primary 47 percent to 42 percent -- not exactly a momentum-builder for the fall. State Sen. John Boccieri is one of the Democrats' most highly touted recruits and has to be considered the favorite. (Previous ranking: 2)
1. New York's 25th District (OPEN, GOP-held): It seems that each day another Republican contender to replace Rep. Jim Walsh (R) opts out of this race. Syracuse Mayor Matt Driscoll's (D) decision to form an exploratory committee could complicate 2006 nominee -- and former Congressional staffer -- Dan Maffei's (D) return to Washington. (Previous ranking: 1)
By Chris Cillizza |
March 7, 2008; 6:00 AM ET
| Category:
The Line
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Posted by: tpvqzxci pzhavjgd | April 16, 2008 9:26 AM
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Posted by: tpvqzxci pzhavjgd | April 16, 2008 9:22 AM
Well, after tonight, maybe Francine Busby should give it one last try...
Posted by: jon.morgan.1999 | March 9, 2008 1:31 AM
Kilroy came within 1055 votes of beating Deborah Pryce in 2006 (when the incumbent was #4 in the House leadership). Franklin County has the vast majority of OH-15's voters, 87% if I recall correctly, and it has been trending strongly Democratic for about a decade now. Just look at this week's results--Franklin was one of 5 counties in Ohio won by Obama. Gradually, the Dems have taken over all the positions in the County, from Sherriff to judges to auditors and treasurers. Columbus has a three-term Democratic mayor and an all-Democratic City Council. The Dems picked up more state legislative seats from Franklin County in 06. They control the County Commission for the first time in a generation, and the local Republican party is so hard up they tried to recruit a Democratic suburban school board member to be their nominee for Kilroy's seat. Especially in a Democratic year, and a presidential year with high turnout, Kilroy has to be favored. Remember Stivers initially declined to even run against her and had to be cajoled into the race. Deborah Pryce is the only Republican who could win this district. With her gone, it's Kilroy's seat.
If OH-15 only ranks as 10th most likely to change hands, that points to another large wave of Democratic gains like in 2006. In a cycle anything close to normal, it should be in the top 5.
Posted by: jon.morgan.1999 | March 8, 2008 2:04 AM
Chris, I wonder how many House seats you'd estimate the Dems will gain at this point?
Posted by: jon.morgan.1999 | March 8, 2008 1:17 AM
Kay Bailey Hutchison unseating Sen. Bob Kreuger in summer 1993 was an even earlier harbinger of what the 1994 cycle had in store.
Foster would've had a better chance had the special election been held on Feb. 5th when Illinoisans voted for Obama in the presidential primary. But of course Hastert knew that and wanted to make sure it didn't happen.
The MA-5 special election already seems to have been forgotten and completely faded into the background. Unless Foster upsets in IL-14, will anyone really remember it beyond this month? What if it's just this year's CA-50?
Posted by: jon.morgan.1999 | March 8, 2008 1:08 AM
The Tom Davis 11th seat may be a true bellweather for the Democratic chances of carrying Virginia in the Presidential race. Will Marc Warner weigh in on his primary fight Chris?
Mark Warner will stay out of the primary. There's no reason for him to endorse any one of the Democratic candidates before June 10.
Posted by: sensible | March 7, 2008 6:53 PM
I think you rank NJ-3 a little high. As a former resident of the area, I know the Republicans have a very strong voting block from the military in the area (Fort Dix is within the district). With the probability of having a vet on the Republican side, this isn't going to change, no matter who the Sierra Club endorses.
Posted by: wynne315 | March 7, 2008 4:21 PM
I agree with other comments that in the MN Ramstad seat, Ashwin Madia may be the Dem nominee rather than Terri Bonoff. Both of them (and a third candidate) have agreed to abide by the convention results, which will give us a nominee by June. The ditrict conventions, gong on now, will give a good early indication of the eventual winner. Esecpailly in a good year for Democrats, either Bonoff or Madia should be a strong candidate against Paulsen, who is not as moderate as Ramstad.
Posted by: billmcg | March 7, 2008 4:18 PM
McCain/Bush Iraq spending meter 3 TRILLION and counting.
Spending on necssary healthcare reform is chump chain.
Posted by: leichtman | March 7, 2008 2:30 PM
There's only so much you can say about a special House election, and the next one -- about some conservative functionary resigning his post -- isn't any better.
Posted by: Spectator2 | March 7, 2008 12:53 PM
I concur sir!
Also Tax-and-spend comes with its own set of baggage, but its not nearly as bad as borrow-and-spend.
hear hear!!
Posted by: chadibuins | March 7, 2008 2:29 PM
"If Sen. Barack Obama gets his way, taxpayers will be faced with financing $874.35 Billion in new spending over one White House term."
Its not raw spending that's necessarily the problem. Its how the spending is funded. Endless borrow-and-spend fiscal policy devalues the dollar, which drives up inflation. Tax-and-spend comes with its own set of baggage, but its not nearly as bad as borrow-and-spend.
Posted by: bsimon | March 7, 2008 2:14 PM
OBAMA SPEND-O-METER now tops $800 Billion...
If Sen. Barack Obama gets his way, taxpayers will be faced with financing $874.35 Billion in new spending over one White House term.
L. Ron Obama's liberal fiscal agenda is the real monster.
Posted by: proudtobeGOP | March 7, 2008 1:18 PM
dave, My dream is Obama coming up to the microphone and refusing Samantha Powers resignation and telling the whole world what most of us know - "Hillary Clinton is, in fact, a sociopath. he is the single gravest danger this country faces. She and her husband have a history of unresolved illegal and unethical practices. Bill uses the power of elected office to molest and seduce women and Hillary utterly destroys them when they have the courage to speak out of how they have been used and discarded. Then, White Water, the Rose Law Firm, the travel office firings, the missing White House records, misuse of the IRS to punish political opponents, and on and on. The list of felonies, of gross misuse of public trust, is so lengthy, so outrageous, that it is beyond troubling that she is seriously being considered by anyone as this country's leader." THAT is what I want to read. "Personal attack" or not, it is the truth, and it is past time people stated to point out that the empress has no clothes.
Posted by: mibrooks27 | March 7, 2008 1:16 PM
Actually, it is the government who is not accountable on social security. Private bankers are accountable in the most fair way -the market. you can shop elsewhere if you don't like the product.
Meanwhile the government sets its own rate of return, makes up the rules as they go along, spends the money at a whim, promises things they can't possibly deliver, you know, the typical Dem approach.
Posted by: kingofzouk | March 7, 2008 1:15 PM
issues? we don't need no stinkin issues.
Posted by: drindl | March 7, 2008 1:10 PM
wpost4112
"Looking forward to talking about the issues again."
Huh? When do we talk about the issues?
Posted by: bsimon | March 7, 2008 1:00 PM
And Mark, I agree with rpy. McCain is looking backward, fighting wars we fought years ago, instead of the one we are in now. I don't think he understand the world as it currently exists at all.
He wants to privatize social security. the transition costs will destroy social security and hand millions of taxpayer dollars -- an enormous windfall -- over to private bankers, who will, of course, not be accountable. that's the real 'conservative' agenda. as usual.
McCain's environmentalism comsists mainly of giving tons of subsidies and tax cuts to the nuclear interest, without asking for goals or benchmarks.
And he has no exit strategy or Iraq. He says we will stay there until we 'win' without specifying what 'win' means. What's the mission NOW? He also is in favor of Bush's idea of an agreement for the US to stay and protect Iraq indefinitely.
Posted by: drindl | March 7, 2008 12:55 PM
"Looking forward to talking about the issues again."
wpost: I think we need a better post from cc. There's only so much you can say about a special House election, and the next one -- about some conservative functionary resigning his post -- isn't any better.
Posted by: Spectator2 | March 7, 2008 12:53 PM
Concerning today's mudslinging by both liberals and conservatives, I offer Terrence's simple but insightful line:
Homo sum: humani nil a me alienum puto.
I've yet to meet any human being without sin or imperfection.
Looking forward to talking about the issues again.
Posted by: wpost4112 | March 7, 2008 12:48 PM
'I guess then the voters can decide if getting a prescription from your Doctor and using it according to prescribed directions is worse than Obama's going to the neighboorhood crack dealer to buy his drug of choice.'
First, 'crack' is not the same as 'cocaine'. Ask GW Bush.
Second, Cindy did NOT get the oxycontin from her doctor [well actually, she got it there too] but she also STOLE it from her own charity. For years. Until her parents intervened. She admitted that she used it at least partly because she was 'stressed out' by the fact that she, and her husband, both had to testify before Congress over the Keating 5 scandal. You see, she was a bookkeeper and she couldn't come up with a lot of the necessary records.
Now, if either Bill or Hillary Clinton had become addicted to drugs they stole from a charity, I'm sure you'd want to talk about it. This goes to the heart of both the McCain's judgment and character, of which there doesn't seem to be much.
Posted by: drindl | March 7, 2008 12:42 PM
Chris I love these lines, but given the number of retirments and lively races already I think you're going to need a top 25.
One point, anokaflash, Madia did not tie Bonoff's home district last weekend. Her home district is SD 43 not SD 42. But it looks like it could be lively. We'll know a lot after this weekend in MN3.
Posted by: stpaulsage | March 7, 2008 12:41 PM
This "Hate" and "Envy/Jealous" Factor being used by supporters of Obama on most of the Internet blogs are finally being exposed as to where it is coming from [Top Advisors] by members of the Foreign Press/Media. The Media here in this country is/are so in favor of him that they are in effect "Covering" for him, as best they can. Not a good thing.
Posted by: lylepink | March 7, 2008 12:39 PM
Spectator2: thanks, I'd forgotten about Taft. What a sad ending for that proud political family.
Posted by: novamatt | March 7, 2008 12:34 PM
Mark, thanks for the response -- while it sounds like we'll probably be on opposite sides in this particular election, it's nice to know how close those two sides could potentially be.
I won't add much, except to say that I agree completely with the idea that the executive branch should be focused on foreign policy. This is actually the main reason I'm pulling for Obama.
My only comment on foreign policy and Obama is just this: McCain's point of view on foreign policy seems rooted in Cold War strategies, while I would argue that Obama offers the opportunity for our first post-Cold War president. That, to me, is the reason he's willing to meet with leaders of other countries: they aren't proxies for the Soviets these days. We are back to regional messes (like the one in South America recently) that require a person not to frame the conflict going into it too much.
Said more than I meant to, but thanks again for the post, Mark.
Posted by: rpy1 | March 7, 2008 12:33 PM
Famed Hurricane Forecaster Predicts Global Cooling In 10 Years Expert William Gray states ocean cycles will have a more profound effect on climate than CO2; criticizes James Hansen's climate models.
Al gore better invest his money wisely, the fraud is coming to an end.
Posted by: kingofzouk | March 7, 2008 12:30 PM
Archivists Block Release Of Clinton Papers Per Clinton's instruction, federal archivists at the Clinton Presidential Library are blocking the release of hundreds of pages of White House papers on pardons that the former president approved
Tax returns, pardons - all secret under the clinton stazi
Posted by: kingofzouk | March 7, 2008 12:28 PM
Former U.S. Vice President Al Gore left the White House seven years ago with less than $2 million in assets, including a Virginia home and the family farm in Tennessee. Now he's making enough to put $35 million in hedge funds and other private partnerships. Gore invested the money with Capricorn Investment Group LLC, a Palo Alto, California, firm that selects the private funds for clients and invests in makers of environmentally friendly products, according to a Feb. 1 securities filing.
Feqar and trembling based on fraud is a well paying gig
Posted by: kingofzouk | March 7, 2008 12:24 PM
Bill Clinton's $700,000 stock windfall
Internet search company was co-founded by a convicted felon and money launderer and backed by the Chinese government. Is there anyone paying attention?
clintons and dirty money -= it never ends
Posted by: kingofzouk | March 7, 2008 12:23 PM
I can't wait for Barck obama, his hopefullness, to single-handedly raise the DJIA with his hope. I just hope that all that tax raising and spending reality doesn't interfere.
Of course, if you're a Lib you believe in the Santa clinton who is going to reward all good voters with free health care, free college, free retirement, free peace.
Why pay for all that good stuff when Santa can just put it in your stocking instead?
Posted by: kingofzouk | March 7, 2008 12:21 PM
"Blagojevich has a favorable of 12 there in IL 14. Ouch. I think that's the lowest I've ever seen for a politician."
I think the great Taft of Ohio got down to 9. Single digits, statewide! There are so many Tafts in Ohio that it's not a stretch to say that virtually no one outside his family liked this clown.
Posted by: Spectator2 | March 7, 2008 12:21 PM
please cut me some slack on my grammar in the last post - this keyboard feels like it had apple juice spilled on it.
Posted by: mark_in_austin | March 7, 2008 12:18 PM
Survey USA has a poll out today with Foster beating Oberweis 52-45, with a MOE of 4.4%: http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=15ba65f6-52ad-4e87-9e51-0b8d1420b74a
If you peruse some of the other numbers in that poll, Blagojevich has a favorable of 12 there in IL 14. Ouch. I think that's the lowest I've ever seen for a politician. Even Johnny Rowland at his bitter end had at least 20% digging his scene. Hope Blago is far along on his post-gubernatorial plans.
Posted by: novamatt | March 7, 2008 12:17 PM
Dow Jones falls below 12,000! Bush endorsement of McCain looking better and better -- for the Democrats!
Posted by: Spectator2 | March 7, 2008 12:15 PM
I see drindl and her fellow jackel Loud and dumb have dragged this blog down into the mud again today. I predict they will blame it on others as usual.
what a bunch of adolescent misfits.
Let me summarize:
Republicans are all evil, drug abusing, sexual predators and hypocrites who steal from babies to live. Dems are the shining grace of the planet, meant to save us from the evil cons.
this is the general level of discourse you can expect from the drindl beast and her minions daily.
'Maybe you should just stick to cut and paste sky-is-falling 'news' reports from HuffPo and Kos.'
Indeed.
Posted by: kingofzouk | March 7, 2008 12:14 PM
rpy1, I see that you have left a post, so I am answering yours of a few days ago, addressed to me.
Yes, I lean toward McC in any event. If HRC were the D nominee, I would not even worry about who McC picks as VP.
I want to add that while I think health, and health care delivery, in America is a problem, I do not think they should be resolved at the Federal level.
I do believe that the current entitlement programs are growing so fast that they are the single biggest fiscal problem facing us, bigger than all others, including waste, including the military budget,including the interest on the National Debt; soon to be bigger than all of the above summed together. In this, BHO has been more approachable and reasonable than HRC. In this, McC and I agree.
I do believe that the overriding national security issue of the next decade is dependence on Arab and Russian oil and how that overrides good judgment in foreign policy or even in environmental considerations. McC is closer to me than BHO, who is closer to me than HRC. That is because I too believe that if nuclear power works without incident in the USN and in France, we can make it work for us too, and if the Montana Governor is right about coal gas liquification we can work with that as well; plus McC's stump speech pledges seed money for clean energy research, the a biggest bangbiggest for the smallest buck.
Let me add that McC understands and says that the Prez leads in foreign policy and as military commander-in-chief and the Congress leads on domestic matters. On domestic matters, McC would use the foghorn of the Presidency, but not claim he operates outside the law, like Bush-Cheney. BHO and HRC know this too, but like any D candidate must promise the moon as if it were a presidential prerogative. I cut Ds slack on this b/c historically they immediately abandon the more ludicrous programmatic promises when they take office as they are outside the reach of the presidency.
Further, NAFTA is a good policy that should be tweaked. It is the WTC where America and western Europe and Japan must exert muscle. Why is Russia still in the 8? Why does China get a free ride on ILO rules?
Those are real political-economic issues, and we have many natural allies, to help us bring change.
And yes, I do want McC to expand on the exit strategy from Iraq and speak in terms of a more global foreign policy, without continuing to stress that gangs of jihadists are scaring the hell out of us.
Bad as they are, jihadists will have won a victory of enormous proportions if they really do scare the hell out of us.
Posted by: mark_in_austin | March 7, 2008 12:14 PM
drindl, Unless Cindy decides, like Hillary, to someday use her vast experience garnered by selecting the White House china pattern in an attempt to run for President, then her past problem is immaterial.
But every time you bring it up, I'll bring up Obama's illegal drug use, something for which he was never held accountable despite having broken the law.
I guess then the voters can decide if getting a prescription from your Doctor and using it according to prescribed directions is worse than Obama's going to the neighboorhood crack dealer to buy his drug of choice.
Posted by: proudtobeGOP | March 7, 2008 12:08 PM
For folks following the whole Samantha Power thing, she just resigned as an advisor to the Obama campaign.
Posted by: rpy1 | March 7, 2008 12:04 PM
Holier-than-thou types are merely being held to the standards they espouse.
Posted by: Spectator2 | March 7, 2008 11:25 AM
exactly. It's the hypocracy.
Posted by: JD | March 7, 2008 12:03 PM
"Loud and dumb (aka Spectator) -drindl asked, so I provided a list of liberal 'figures'. I don't care a wit about anything they do as long as it doesn't involve casting stones at others for the same thing."
That's the whole point, dipwad. Liberals don't stand around casting stones. They leave that to hypocritical rightwingnuts.
And you obviously do "care about" what liberals do because you seem to be keeping very close track of liberals who transgress.
PS. Act like zouk and you'll get it back. Act like a grownup and you'll be treated accordingly.
Posted by: Spectator2 | March 7, 2008 11:52 AM
'Maybe you should just stick to cut and paste sky-is-falling 'news' reports from HuffPo and Kos.'
are you channeling zouk or do you share a common 'brain'?
last time i looked, Cindy McCain's husband WAS running for office...
Posted by: drindl | March 7, 2008 11:51 AM
'Loud and dumb' I swear proud, one minute you sound like a halfway sentient being, the next like a brainwashed zombie like zouk.
Posted by: drindl | March 7, 2008 11:49 AM
proudtobeGOP writes
"incessantly talking about People who are Not Running for President (PNRP) won't cut it."
So sayeth the person who posted the list of hollywood personalities as Exhibit A in the Deviant Liberals case. What's that commandment again? I think it was "Do as I say, not as I do." Did I get it right?
Posted by: bsimon | March 7, 2008 11:48 AM
Now that Obama's top foriegn policy advisor has called Hillary Clinton a "monster", you'd better come up with some diversion, drindl. But incessantly talking about People who are Not Running for President (PNRP) won't cut it.
Maybe you should just stick to cut and paste sky-is-falling 'news' reports from HuffPo and Kos.
Posted by: proudtobeGOP | March 7, 2008 11:42 AM
JD, I never said I agreed with Will. I offered an explanation for the findings of a study which Will cited. I suppose I agree with Will that the study exists, but that's it. I agree with the second paragraph, which is factual. The rest of the article is Will using the study to pile on the usual insults against liberals, the aforementioned load of crap.
Posted by: Blarg | March 7, 2008 11:40 AM
**************************
How about Barack Obama bragging about his cocaine habit
**************************
Proud:
1. Obama hasn't bragged about his drug use. He's been open and honest about it, which *is* surprising for a politician, but wrote about it before he really got interested in politics. At least some things still make sense...
2. I (personally) don't have a problem with someone who has an addiction problem and is able to kick it running for office. If you voted for W, niether do you.
Could you get off the high horse now?
Posted by: rpy1 | March 7, 2008 11:38 AM
On the drug thing, Obama's story of having tried it & quit is far more useful as an example to youth than Bill's "I didn't inhale - and I didn't like it" or W's "I didn't use any coke after a specific date & won't comment on anything before then. And I don't abuse alcohol any longer."
Posted by: bsimon | March 7, 2008 11:37 AM
(nor do I necessarily think that homo=promiscious). That accusation = resignation for a GOPer.
----------------------
Really? Last I heard Larry Craig is still in office, when he's not trolling public bathrooms.
Posted by: PatrickNYC1 | March 7, 2008 11:36 AM
Perhaps Barney Frank wouldn't be promiscuous if he was allowed to marry. and maybe Larry Craig wouldn't have to hang around men's rooms.
Posted by: drindl | March 7, 2008 11:36 AM
Jim Oberweis is so far right, he makes Patrick Buchanan look like Patrick Leahy. Even the Illinois GOP is afraid of him. He doesn't just lose elections in Illinois, he loses BIG. Although he'll run for most anything, power-monger wannabee that he is - Obama ran against Alan Keyes and won his Senate seat because guys like Oberweis (who was the IL-GOP's choice #4 as I recall) won't run unless a contest looks like an easy win. He doesn't belong in public office and should stick to his million-dollar dairy business.
Posted by: itsallsogoofy | March 7, 2008 11:35 AM
I don't read People magazine, proud, so I wouldn't know what hollywood celebrities do. Nor do I care.
However, read that Rush had broken the law, as did Cindy McCain -- for several years.
And Obama never bragged, nor was there any mention of 'habit.' However, your fratboy cheerleader president was a well known coke user, as well as an admiited alcoholic and a deserter during a time of war.
Posted by: drindl | March 7, 2008 11:35 AM
" I was referring to the stuff going on with that male prostitute, whats his name, not his homosexuality per se "
Lets see... Rep Frank didn't know his partner was doing the sex for money thing, which happened 20 some years ago; I don't know whether they're still together or not. Point being: this was 20 years ago and you're STILL talking about it? This is your prime example of liberals flaunting their immorality? If thats the kind of stuff that triggers conservative outrage, you guys are more pitiful than I thought.
Posted by: bsimon | March 7, 2008 11:33 AM
Loud and dumb (aka Spectator) -drindl asked, so I provided a list of liberal 'figures'. I don't care a wit about anything they do as long as it doesn't involve casting stones at others for the same thing.
Posted by: proudtobeGOP | March 7, 2008 11:32 AM
"Barack Obama bragging about his cocaine habit, or Heath Ledger, River Phoenix, Charlie Sheen, Eva Mendes, Balthazar Getty, Ben Affleck and Juliette Lewis, Gary Busey, Sean Penn..."
Get over yourself, Proud. To use your own words, "he is the candidate, the others are not." Don't go to their movies if you are so repulsed by their behavior.
Posted by: Spectator2 | March 7, 2008 11:28 AM
"Your top candidate for the Presidency wrote about his illegal drug use in his best-selling book. His drug of choice was not prescribed by a doctor, and yet the liberals condone it and even celebrate it. Don't try to drag every other decent politician down into the mud just to try and excuse Obama's illegal drug use. he is the candidate, the others are not.
Posted by: proudtobeGOP | March 7, 2008 11:23 AM
"
Coming from a drug dealer proud. Frickin hypopcrite republicans.
Sorry i couldn't help myself. :)
Look slike bush is getting recalled. He never should have been president. But he's white. He can do drugs in his youth. You show your hypocrite face on all fronts proud.
congradulations.
Posted by: JKrishnamurti | March 7, 2008 11:26 AM
"Bubba's transgressions overlooked? Oh jeezus you must be joking."
---------------------------
The GOP tied up the government for over a year over a BJ, while Newt had the nerve to be having yet another affair himself.
In fact if I'm not mistaken both Hillary and Obama are still on their first marriages, while McShame is on #2. The GOP talks the talk but does a bad walk.
Posted by: PatrickNYC1 | March 7, 2008 11:25 AM
Holier-than-thou types are merely being held to the standards they espouse.
Posted by: Spectator2 | March 7, 2008 11:25 AM
So blarg, you agree with Will but then call his argument a load of crap? OK.
bsimon I was referring to the stuff going on with that male prostitute, whats his name, not his homosexuality per se (nor do I necessarily think that homo=promiscious). That accusation = resignation for a GOPer.
and by bubba's transgressions being overlooked, I mean just what I said. First is bsimon's point that yes, we mostly knew what he was doing yet he got elected (and re-elected) anyway because the economy was good (and the GOP ran a fossil... and Perot split the vote...). Remember, technically he got in trouble for the perjury, not the screwing around.
Posted by: JD | March 7, 2008 11:24 AM
"anyone care to name a 'liberal' figure who's addicted to --and steals -- narcotics?"
Give me a break, drindl. How about Barack Obama bragging about his cocaine habit, or Heath Ledger, River Phoenix, Charlie Sheen, Eva Mendes, Balthazar Getty, Ben Affleck and Juliette Lewis, Gary Busey, Sean Penn...
the list is so long of famous liberals who parade their substance-abuse-filled lifestyles on shows like "Celebrity Rehab With Dr. Drew." that it's impossible to count them all.
Your top candidate for the Presidency wrote about his illegal drug use in his best-selling book. His drug of choice was not prescribed by a doctor, and yet the liberals condone it and even celebrate it. Don't try to drag every other decent politician down into the mud just to try and excuse Obama's illegal drug use. he is the candidate, the others are not.
Posted by: proudtobeGOP | March 7, 2008 11:23 AM
But your not understanding my post proud. I know the dems are responsible for thoese people in those positions. That was the point of my post.
One party system. Two sides to the same fascist coin. I'm sorry for all my harse words toward you gop'ers. My hope has been crushed. The battle is lost. When the moderates in the democratic party AND the leadership AND the media turn on us, we're toast. Nobody could win with the deck stacked compleatly against them on all fronts, even in party sabotage.
I guess I'm not voting this year year all. My first election (I thought it was impossible for kerry to lose to bush so I stayed out), and now I don't have representation AGAIN.
I'm done. Sorry again for the tone proud and others. I was merely tryign to help you grow. in that growth along with truth and love for our country, I hoped to turn you guys. Turn to what, now?
I'm done. Sorry for my antics. It was all for the good. And it was all a waste of time.
Peace. Good luck and GOd Bless. After you finish in the middle east. Please don't turn your war on europe. Give me somewhere to flee your fascism. Somewhere in the world nazi's.
Posted by: JKrishnamurti | March 7, 2008 11:21 AM
I agree with bsimon
and again I quote The West WIng--the Reps want the gov't just small enough to fit into the bedroom!
Posted by: chadibuins | March 7, 2008 11:17 AM
Your welcome proud. :)
Now I see why you people have been so cocky. Why you keep saying the dem's are going to shoot themselves in the foot, like they always do. You were never worried at all were you?
Posted by: JKrishnamurti | March 7, 2008 11:15 AM
JD criticizes
"Barney Frank's promisciousness."
He's not married. What business is it of yours? If he were married, you might have an argument to make. But I think we both know that won't happen.
Posted by: bsimon | March 7, 2008 11:15 AM
Interesting that in most categories of morality, conservatives are held to the higher standard.
uhm . . . I think that is because Conservatives SAY they are the official guardians of morals and values and what not.
Also-Bubba was impeached on national TV--that is hardly a slap on the wrist.
And by the way--a large part of those divisive tactics and what not CAN be placed squarely at the feet of conservatives and the religious right.
As a former "religious righter" I can tell you that when you believe your morals and values are superior--you're not looking for inclusion or other ideas--you only want your ideas propugated to everyone--your history, your beliefs, your convictions, your morals.
What a lot of moderate Dems and even Reps don't get is to most of these religious right people who have been supporting them and getting them in office--the idea that there are 2 sides to a debate is a liberal idea to them--they are not interested in real debate because they are not going to believe their ideas and interpretaions are anything less than G-d-inspired.
Posted by: chadibuins | March 7, 2008 11:14 AM
rufus, I appreciate the congratulatory tone of your post, but the Dems get ALL the credit for Harry Reid and Howard Dean. Thanks anyway. :)
Posted by: proudtobeGOP | March 7, 2008 11:11 AM
"Bubba's transgressions overlooked? Oh jeezus you must be joking."
He makes the valid point that Bill was elected President twice with a nudge and a wink about his habits of fooling around on the side. Dem voters knew, or should have known, but they didn't care.
Posted by: bsimon | March 7, 2008 11:09 AM
to wit:
liberals "try it, you might like it..."
cons "that behavior is evil, reprehensible & anti-American!! [psst] meet me 'round back..."
Posted by: bsimon | March 7, 2008 10:59 AM
----------------------
LOL
--------------
actually, anyone care to name a 'liberal' figure who's addicted to --and steals -- narcotics?
or any closeted gay guy in congress who's been caught soliciting men in public restrooms?
Posted by: drindl | March 7, 2008 11:03 AM
------------------------
Cindy McCain...no wait she's not a democrat is she, Rush , no not him...it will come to me.
Posted by: PatrickNYC1 | March 7, 2008 11:08 AM
this is not a rhetorical question. name one.
actually, anyone care to name a 'liberal' figure who's addicted to --and steals -- narcotics?
or any closeted gay guy in congress who's been caught soliciting men in public restrooms?
Posted by: drindl | March 7, 2008 11:08 AM
JD--interesting piece--ESPECIALLY when they seperate being happy from being optimistic.
Personally, I think I am all 3--happy, optimistic and liberal.
that being said--I think the point he made is troubling in two ways:
1> liberals should not look ONLY to the gov't for happiness. Personal Responsibility must become as much a part of our liberal speech as "a hand up".
2> that conservatives are happy being pessimistic in part because of some smug "I told you so" mentality.
The scariest part of that is it PERFECTLY describes A LOT of my Conservative/Republican family--to a tee!
It makes me sad because it seems to me that instead of being "happy we said it wasn't going to work" that if they would join us in making it work we might be able to accomplish both of our visions.
I think the Reagan Revolution has led to more division and 50% +1 mentatlity than anything else in the last 3 decades. The end of the Cold War and 9/11 both could and should have been opportunities for Americans to come together as Americans and fix our county's problems and lead the world.--Instead we spend countless dollars on both sides throwing kitchen sinks, unfounded allegations, misled conspiracies and witch hunt investigations.
This is the reason I am voting for Obama!
Posted by: chadibuins | March 7, 2008 11:06 AM
"Interesting that in most categories of morality, conservatives are held to the higher standard. What does that say about the public's expectations of liberals? "
You can't help yourself, can you? Its comical to see both sides (JD & drindl, in this case), blindly criticizing the other 'side' while ignoring the reality that both parties are made up of humans, who inherently have faults.
Perhpas we were better off when the press colluded with politicians to hide their all-too-human flaws, whether mistresses, diseases or bad habits.
Posted by: bsimon | March 7, 2008 11:06 AM
'Interesting that in most categories of morality, conservatives are held to the higher standard. What does that say about the public's expectations of liberals?'
LOL
Bubba's transgressions overlooked? Oh jeezus you must be joking. the 'liberal' NYTimes couldn't get over ranting about it for two solid years. Almost every Democrat in Congress condemned him. He was impeached.
And the last time I look, Larry Craig was still in office.
Posted by: drindl | March 7, 2008 11:06 AM
and I thought it was just 'some' of the B.O. bloggers were using words like evil and monster. This came from a Harvard educated foreign policy advisor to B.O. I would not use any of those dispariging words to describe a respected member of the US Senate, Senator Obama. The only words I would use are Wrong and Mistaken.
Posted by: leichtman | March 7, 2008 11:05 AM
and I thought it was just 'some' of the B.O. bloggers were using words like evil and monster. This came from a Harvard educated foreign policy advisor to B.O. I would not use any of those dispariging words to describe a respected member of the US Senate, Senator Obama. The only words I would use are Wrong and Mistaken.
Posted by: leichtman | March 7, 2008 11:05 AM
I'm not surprised that conservatives are generally happier than liberals. Liberals want change; we don't like the way the world is today. Conservatives don't have a problem with the status quo, in general, and think things are fine the way they are. That's why there are a lot more liberal activist groups than conservative activists. Obviously if you think the world needs to change, you're going to be less happy than people who like the way things are.
Will's article is a load of crap, of course. His reasoning is ridiculous and insulting. But that's just par for the course.
Posted by: Blarg | March 7, 2008 11:04 AM
"DNC Source: Michigan Will Caucus"
"Clinton: "I Would Not Accept" Caucuses In Michigan, Florida"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/
I guess beggers can be choosers. If they are part of the one party system we have. You gop'ers have it pretty good. Everything exactly how you want it all the time. Even when the minority. Even when controlling the "opposition" party.
you old folks got it good. The dnc is destroying itself.
Now do you feel me, in terms of dean? good thing the gop has sabotuers at all points. You got a mormon gop'er running the senate for you. You got a sell-out destroying our presidential candidate. and the dnc chair has your back.
Congradulations gop. The one party system you fought so hard for seems to be standing strong.
"All U.S. presidents since 1989 have been Yale graduates, namely George H. W. Bush, Bill Clinton (who attended the University's Law School along with his wife, New York Senator Hillary Clinton), and George W. Bush. Vice President Dick Cheney attended Yale, although he did not graduate. Many of the 2004 presidential candidates attended Yale: Bush, John Kerry, Howard Dean, and Joe Lieberman.
Other Yale-educated presidents were William Howard Taft (B.A.) and Gerald Ford (LL.B). Alumni also include several Supreme Court justices, including current Justices Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito.
"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yale_University
One party rule is not democracy. If this is no longer america what is it?
Posted by: JKrishnamurti | March 7, 2008 11:04 AM
actually, anyone care to name a 'liberal' figure who's addicted to --and steals -- narcotics?
or any closeted gay guy in congress who's been caught soliciting men in public restrooms?
Posted by: drindl | March 7, 2008 11:03 AM
Another A-HOLE who thinks hitting tiny balls into holes in the ground is the most important thing in society. Only Idiots watch or play this stupid game. Hang this Fat Moron.
http://www.golf.com/golf/tours_news/article/0,28136,1720036,00.html
Stan Badz/PGA TOUR/WireImage.com
Golfer apologizes for shot that killed protected hawk
Published: March 06, 2008
ORLANDO, Fla. (AP) -- Pro golfer Tripp Isenhour apologized for killing a hawk that was making noise while he tried to film a TV show. Now the Humane Society wants the PGA Tour to take action.
"Because of the high profile nature of this case, the PGA needs to take steps to address its interest and to make it clear that they don't condone animal cruelty," said Dale Bartlett, the deputy manager for animal cruelty issues for the Humane Society of the United States.
Bartlett said the organization would contact the PGA Tour on Friday to discuss the issue.
Isenhour, who plays on the developmental Nationwide Tour, was charged Wednesday with cruelty to animals and killing a migratory bird, misdemeanors that carry a maximum penalty of 14 months in jail and $1,500 in fines.
Isenhour quickly apologized Thursday.
"As soon as this happened, I was mortified and extremely upset and continue to be upset," Isenhour said in a statement issued through his management company, SFX Golf. "I want to let everyone know there was neither any malice nor deliberate intent whatsoever to hit or harm the hawk. I was trying to simply scare it into flying away."
The 39-year-old player, whose real name is John Henry Isenhour III, became angry while filming "Shoot Like A Pro" on Dec. 12 at the Grand Cypress Golf Club when a squawking red-shouldered hawk roughly 300 yards away forced another take.
He drove closer to the bird in his golf cart and starting hitting balls at it. The bird didn't move and Isenhour gave up and drove away.
Isenhour started again when the hawk moved within about 75 yards, Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission officer Brian Baine indicated in a report.
Isenhour allegedly said, "I'll get him now," and aimed for the hawk.
"About the sixth ball came very near the bird's head, and (Isenhour) was very excited that it was so close," Baine wrote.
A few shots later, witnesses said he hit the hawk. The bird, protected as a migratory species, fell to the ground bleeding from both nostrils.
Bartlett said Isenhour's case, like the Michael Vick dog fighting case, is disappointing for society.
"We look up to professional athletes and we want them to reflect the best of us as a society and I think we're appalled when it turns out they instead reflect some of the very worst attributes," he said in a phone interview Thursday night.
Isenhour said he is an animal lover and his family has adopted three cats from a local shelter.
"We ask that everyone accept my sincerest apology, and please be respectful of my family's privacy," he said.
Isenhour has won four times on the Nationwide Tour, including twice in 2006. The former Georgia Tech star has played three events this year on the tour the last a 36th-place tie two weeks ago in the Moonah Classic in Australia.
Jethro Senger, a sound engineer at the shoot, said hitting the bird was "basically like a joke to (Isenhour)."
"He just kept saying how he didn't think he could have hit it, which I think is a stupid thing for a PGA Tour golfer to say," Senger said. "He can put a ball in a hole from hundreds of yards away, and here he is hitting line drives at something that's, I don't know, a couple hundred feet away?"
Senger said no one in the roughly 15-person crew intervened, and many later regretted it.
"It was one of those cases where there's some trepidation on whether or not they should speak up and do something," Senger said.
Senger said the killing was not captured on video. The bird was buried at the golf course and later dug up by Florida investigators.
"Americans have no tolerance for cruelty to animals. Such a petty, mean-spirited act against a wild bird is inexcusable and prosecutors are right to hold Isenhour accountable to the law," Humane Society executive vice president Michael Markarian said in a statement released Thursday.
Posted by: mawt | March 7, 2008 11:02 AM
i agree bsimon, it's the hypocracy that always brings 'em down. Or the coverup.
Interesting that in most categories of morality, conservatives are held to the higher standard. What does that say about the public's expectations of liberals?
Consider Bubba: his infidelity is overlooked because, well, he's a randy Dem. Or Barney Frank's promisciousness. Or Jesse Jackson's overt racism. Or half of Hollywood; highly liberal, highly dysfunctional, nobody bats an eye.
Posted by: JD | March 7, 2008 11:02 AM
In the latest edition of Surrogates Gone Wild: Obama's key foreign policy aide Samantha Power has called Hillary Clinton "a monster."
We f***** up in Ohio," she admitted. "In Ohio, they are obsessed and Hillary is going to town on it, because she knows Ohio's the only place they can win.
"She is a monster, too - that is off the record - she is stooping to anything," Ms Power said, hastily trying to withdraw her remark.
Ms Power was head-hunted by Barack Obama to become his foreign-policy adviser in 2005 and combines this role with her job as a Time magazine columnist and professor of practice of global leadership and public policy at Harvard.
Will Obama fire her? He should.
Obama has won praise for bringing fresh faces, and relative outsiders, in to advise him -- notably Samantha Power on foreign policy and Austan Goolsbee on domestic.
Both are smart thinkers used to speaking their minds, and tonight it's Power's turn to do her candidate some damage -- referring to Hillary Clinton as a "monster" in an interview with a Scottish paper, which also printed her attempt to take it off the record.
Posted by: proudtobeGOP | March 7, 2008 11:02 AM
to wit:
liberals "try it, you might like it..."
cons "that behavior is evil, reprehensible & anti-American!! [psst] meet me 'round back..."
Posted by: bsimon | March 7, 2008 10:59 AM
JD writes
"Lord knows, there's no liberal sexual deviants or drug abusers in this country."
The difference is the liberals are open about it.
Posted by: bsimon | March 7, 2008 10:58 AM
OK, found it, sort of (I don't think this is what I read, but it seems to jibe)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/22/AR2006022202012.html
Posted by: JD | March 7, 2008 10:52 AM
novamatt/chadibuins,
The nastiness of the Clinton/Obama supporters might just come from following the campaign leads. This sort of stuff is obviously not limited to Obama but the following is the current brush-up (and is certainly more startling, at least to me, given Obama's campaign theme and the general way in which he has run his campaign to date).
"LONDON - An adviser to Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama apologized Friday for telling a Scottish newspaper that rival Hillary Rodham Clinton is "a monster."
Samantha Power, a foreign policy adviser to Obama's presidential campaign and Pulitzer Prize winner, was quoted in remarks she later attempted to retract as saying in The Scotsman newspaper that Clinton was stooping to low tactics to recover ground in the race to win the party's presidential nomination.
The Harvard professor is quoted as telling the newspaper Obama's team had been disappointed with Clinton's campaign win in Ohio on Tuesday.
"In Ohio, they are obsessed and Hillary is going to town on it, because she knows Ohio's the only place they can win," Power is quoted as saying. "She is a monster, too -- that is off the record -- she is stooping to anything."
"You just look at her and think, 'Ergh'," Power is quoted as telling the newspaper. "But if you are poor and she is telling you some story about how Obama is going to take your job away, maybe it will be more effective. The amount of deceit she has put forward is really unattractive.""
Power issued a statement Friday in which she acknowledged the comments but said she "deeply regretted them."
"It is wrong for anyone to pursue this campaign in such negative and personal terms," she said in the statement. "I apologize to Senator Clinton and to Senator Obama, who has made very clear that these kinds of expressions should have no place in American politics.""
Posted by: dave | March 7, 2008 10:49 AM
Chad, I was only parroting what I read in this paper, I think maybe the Outlook section. Might have been in Slate, sometimes they all run together. I'll see if I can provide a cite. (drindl, take notes)
Posted by: JD | March 7, 2008 10:49 AM
I think it's because conservatives don't care about anyone but themselves. Or like Rush are on drugs, or trolling bathrooms like Craig and the others caught with their pants down.
Posted by: PatrickNYC1 | March 7, 2008 10:41 AM
LOL. yeah, that's the reason. Lord knows, there's no liberal sexual deviants or drug abusers in this country.
Oh wait...
Posted by: JD | March 7, 2008 10:47 AM
drindl--LOL
Patrick--YES!!
JD--see drindl's 10:41 post
And I do not think libs are less optimistic--if anthing I think we are MORE optimistic--we're the ones who believe everyday people can make a difference; that gov't of the people should work FOR the people; and we're the ones who are optimistic that if we keep pressing forward we move towards more inclusion, better lives for ALL people and a more democratic society and world at large.
that is hardly pessimistic.
Posted by: chadibuins | March 7, 2008 10:47 AM
sure, chad, I'm a liberal -- we're concerned about everyone, you know.
Posted by: drindl | March 7, 2008 10:43 AM
You seem to enjoy just copying and pasting bad news. This jibes with something I read in WaPo about a month ago, that liberals seem to be much less happy, much less optimistic than conservatives.
If you have a point to make, then you should make the point.
Posted by: JD | March 7, 2008 10:35 AM
-----------------------------------
I think it's because conservatives don't care about anyone but themselves. Or like Rush are on drugs, or trolling bathrooms like Craig and the others caught with their pants down.
Posted by: PatrickNYC1 | March 7, 2008 10:41 AM
drindl--my knockers are unknotted--thanks for your concern. :)
Posted by: chadibuins | March 7, 2008 10:39 AM
novamatt: I believe for the most part you are correct--HOWEVER I think it is also the wind of things to come if both candidates start kitchen sinking each other.
And again, I think Obama should be open with his past and Rezko and whatever--I think he'd be the stronger leader--if he can do it with drug use and neutralize it, then Rezko connections and the such should be nothing--BUT it has seemed to me over this week that the media is almost afraid to go after HRC--I am not one to be convinced of conspiracies and biases in the MSM--but I do believe people are people and the media is just as suceptive to perceptions abuot their job as the rest of us.
Posted by: chadibuins | March 7, 2008 10:38 AM
'If you have a point to make, then you should make the point.'
I made the point, JD. You can either see it or choose to be blind. Or change the subject, which I see you have already done.
Posted by: drindl | March 7, 2008 10:37 AM
By the way, JD, that article was from a Journal called The American Conservative.
Posted by: drindl | March 7, 2008 10:15 AM
Fine. What's your point? Connect the dots for me, I must be slow today: are you suggesting that Bush's regime has done this intentionally, subcontracting to a company owned by a bad guy?
You seem to enjoy just copying and pasting bad news. This jibes with something I read in WaPo about a month ago, that liberals seem to be much less happy, much less optimistic than conservatives.
If you have a point to make, then you should make the point.
Posted by: JD | March 7, 2008 10:35 AM
novamatt: the Fla 13 race was disputed and went to court , shouldn't that race be at the the top 10 at least as a rematch?
The proposal I heard this morning by Congresssman Bonier to revote Fla by mail sounds like what Oregon does and seems pretty reasonable but will still cost $5 million money the dnc does not and should not have to pay, and money I think Crist needs to pony up after my post last night showing how he linked the changed date to voting reforms that Wexler had pushed since 2000.
Posted by: leichtman | March 7, 2008 10:33 AM
By the way, JD, that article was from a Journal called The American Conservative.
Posted by: drindl | March 7, 2008 10:15 AM
there's lots more where this came from:
'The 15-month proconsulship of the CPA disbursed nearly $20 billion, two-thirds of it in cash, most of which came from the Development Fund for Iraq that had replaced the UN Oil for Food Program and from frozen and seized Iraqi assets. Most of the money was flown into Iraq on C-130s in huge plastic shrink-wrapped pallets holding 40 "cashpaks," each cashpak having $1.6 million in $100 bills. Twelve billion dollars moved that way between May 2003 and June 2004, drawn from accounts administered by the New York Federal Reserve Bank. The $100 bills weighed an estimated 363 tons.
Once in Iraq, there was virtually no accountability over how the money was spent. There was also considerable money "off the books," including as much as $4 billion from illegal oil exports. The CPA and the Iraqi State Oil Marketing Board, which it controlled, made a deliberate decision not to record or "meter" oil exports, an invitation to wholesale fraud and black marketeering.
Thus the country was awash in unaccountable money. British sources report that the CPA contracts that were not handed out to cronies were sold to the highest bidder, with bribes as high as $300,000 being demanded for particularly lucrative reconstruction contracts.
The contracts were especially attractive because no work or results were necessarily expected in return. It became popular to cancel contracts without penalty, claiming that security costs were making it too difficult to do the work. A $500 million power-plant contract was reportedly awarded to a bidder based on a proposal one page long. After a joint commission rejected the proposal, its members were replaced by the minister, and approval was duly obtained. But no plant has been built.
Where contracts are actually performed, their nominal cost is inflated sufficiently to provide handsome bribes for everyone involved in the process. Bribes paid to government ministers reportedly exceed $10 million.
Money also disappeared in truckloads and by helicopter. The CPA reportedly distributed funds to contractors in bags off the back of a truck. In one notorious incident in April 2004, $1.5 billion in cash that had just been delivered by three Blackhawk helicopters was handed over to a courier in Erbil, in the Kurdish region, never to be seen again. Afterwards, no one was able to recall the courier's name or provide a good description of him.
Paul Bremer, meanwhile, had a slush fund in cash of more than $600 million in his office for which there was no paperwork. One U.S. contractor received $2 million in a duffel bag. Three-quarters of a million dollars was stolen from an office safe, and a U.S. official was given $7 million in cash in the waning days of the CPA and told to spend it "before the Iraqis take over." Nearly $5 billion was shipped from New York in the last month of the CPA. Sources suggest that a deliberate attempt was being made to run down the balance and spend the money while the CPA still had authority and before an Iraqi government could be formed.'
Posted by: drindl | March 7, 2008 10:13 AM
""9. Minnesota's 3rd District (OPEN, GOP-held):
SNIP
state Sen. Terri Bonoff is considered the favorite on the Democratic side.""
Don't underestimate the strength of Ashwin Madia (www.madiaforcongress.com) . An up and coming Obamaesqu candidate is racking up endorsements and had a very good showing in the first delegate count last weekend. Coming out ahead in Bonoff's home turf has this endorsement up in the air with no clear favorite. Bonoff is backed by party salwarts, but will it be enough. The Comparison to the Presidential Race, ie Hillary -vs- Barack is uncanny.
Flash
Centrisity.com
Posted by: anokaflash | March 7, 2008 10:12 AM
Not that it should be on the Line, but the race here in PA-5 to replace John Peterson (R) should be interesting. 9 R's and 3 D's lined up to go at it on April 22. One of the R's (Matt Shaner) has just triggered the FEC's Millionaires Amendment -- he's already spent more than $350,000 of his "own" money on the race. 28 years old and has that much money to spend on a primary?
Six more weeks of anti-immigration political ads. Time to get some reading done because I'm not turning on the TV until April 23.
Posted by: mnteng | March 7, 2008 10:10 AM
drindl, the process is... um.... complicated. In fact it's so unbelievably complex that there's probably no way to explain it intelligably in this forum. Suffice to say, there isn't nearly enough contracting oversight and IV&V to ensure that situations like this *never happen*. And even if there were, we couldn't afford such a huge apparatus, and it would greatly slow getting the actual job done.
If you are suggesting that Bush or the contracting officer were intentionally allowing this, then let's see some proof please. Otherwise, your constant innuendo is tiring.
Posted by: JD | March 7, 2008 10:01 AM
chad, it's a joke. i'm simply pointing out how over the top and unnecessarily inflammatory seeds is. don't get your knickers in a knot.
JD --when you're interested in an education on simple courtesy and how to read an article, do let me know.
"Are you suggesting that the KO knew that a criminal had financial control over a sub?"
I'm suggesting it's problematic either way, isn't it? Either they did know who he was and they still used him -- or the process is so out of control they don't know to whom the money is going. Pick one.
Posted by: drindl | March 7, 2008 9:49 AM
novamatt, you dare try to return the conversation to the House Line!?! Very bold!
No news here. The local press is pressing Ramstad on his pledge not to leave congress until the mental health parity act is passed - the 'Wellstone act' - named for the late Sen from MN. Of course, Rep Ramstad says he fully expects the bill to pass by 12/31/2008, at which time he will retire. No news here, folks.
Posted by: bsimon | March 7, 2008 9:46 AM
I'll bite, JD - What has the tot said about the 2d Law of Thermody? [gotta work now...]
Posted by: mark_in_austin | March 7, 2008 9:46 AM
listening to drindl talk about federal contracting is like listening to my 6 yr old talk about the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
drindl, when you're ready for an education on the subject, let me know. To wit:
What's your point in that copy and paste? Are you suggesting that the FAR, the DFARS, and the entire federal contracting process is corrupt? Are you suggesting that the KO knew that a criminal had financial control over a sub?
Posted by: JD | March 7, 2008 9:39 AM
chadibuins, it's important to note that polls show a vast majority of Democrats would be happy with either candidate. The enmity we're seeing here and elsewhere online seems to be limited to the internet. Except for those two guys in suburban Philly who beat each other up a few weeks back. They must have been Fixistas.
leichtman, you're thinking of the Buchanan/Jennings race in FL 13, Katherine Harris's old seat. Also, I strongly doubt Mark Warner wants any part of the primary fight in VA 11. I should point out that Gerry Connolly and all his supporters are knuckle-dragging baboons and I hate them all with a fiery hate. Just kidding.
Posted by: novamatt | March 7, 2008 9:31 AM
yeah but doesn't that make you seem as crazy and fanatical as he is--but in the opposite way?
I mean blarg and Patrick both responded to that hate filled S#^T, but didn't look as disreputable.
I like a lot of your posts--I'm just saying it was a bit much "fire"--but hey--do what works for you.
Posted by: chadibuins | March 7, 2008 9:29 AM
seeds, and what of your relation with child molesters at this time?
is that known or unknown?
Posted by: drindl | March 7, 2008 09:13 AM
--------------------
LOL
Happy Friday people, let's have fun poking sticks at the trolls.
Posted by: PatrickNYC1 | March 7, 2008 9:29 AM
chad, it's the same tactic seeds is using -- unfounded innuendo. fight fire with fire.
Posted by: drindl | March 7, 2008 9:26 AM
D#mn drindl--you do like to take it over the edge.
Posted by: chadibuins | March 7, 2008 9:20 AM
'8. Obama's relation with Farrahkhan is unknown at this time'
seeds, and what of your relation with child molesters at this time?
is that known or unknown?
Posted by: drindl | March 7, 2008 9:13 AM
The fact that Hastert's seat is in the running is in it's self amazing. This is an election like I've never seen before.
-----------------------
8. Obama's relation with Farrahkhan is unknown at this time
Obama can not win a general election.
Posted by: SeedofChange | March 7, 2008 07:48 AM
--------------------------
Your 1-7 post are just clueless, as for number 8 it is clear you did not watch the debate or read about it afterwards. Obama said he does not accept or condone anything about Farrahkahn. You are obviously a bigot. There is no room for you here, go turn on Rush or those idiots on Fox.
Posted by: PatrickNYC1 | March 7, 2008 9:08 AM
Excellent post blarg
thank you!
Posted by: chadibuins | March 7, 2008 9:07 AM
The Tom Davis 11th seat may be a true bellweather for the Democratic chances of carrying Virginia in the Presidential race. Will Marc Warner weigh in on his primary fight Chris?
Posted by: leichtman | March 7, 2008 9:04 AM
SeedOfChange, those facts you post are terrifying. Unfortunately, I can't believe anything you say, because I don't know your religion. Please provide me with records of your participation in Christian church activities during your early age, in college, and after graduation. I'll need similar records for both of your parents, to prove they're Christians. And I need a list of people who are friends with your church leader. Once I'm satisfied that you're a good Christian, then I can take what you say seriously.
Posted by: Blarg | March 7, 2008 8:57 AM
there was a 2006 Florida Congressional race with alleged computer tampering that mysteriously changed thousands of votes and ended up in court. Can someone fill me in on that district and obvious rematch.
Posted by: leichtman | March 7, 2008 8:56 AM
This is yet another example of the rampant contract abuse I am talking about Mark, which basically amounts to the top tier contractor simply skimming the majority of the contract funds off the top, then subcontracting down several levels, each layer taking a cut, until the 'work' if it is done at all, is done by some shady third-world operator or outright criminal who uses unskilled or coerced labor. In this case, US taxpayers paid millions and millions of dollars to an international war criminal, a known terrorist and enemy of the United States. There is absolutely no oversight--and that was done quite purposely. That was built into the system in Iraq--and it's paid off quite handsomely for the perpetrators. But it has raped this country.
'When U.S. officials announce the arrest of a notorious arms dealer and drug-runner this afternoon, the fact that his planes flew U.S. supply missions in Iraq will likely go unmentioned.
In a January 2005 letter to Congress, then-Assistant Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz admitted the Defense Department "did conduct business with companies that, in turn, subcontracted work to second-tier providers who leased aircraft owned by companies associated with Mr. Bout."
At the time, Bout was already a wanted international fugitive. Intelligence officials had considered Bout one of the greatest threats to U.S. interests, in the same league as al Qaeda kingpin Osama bin Laden. Interpol had issued a warrant for his arrest; the United Nations Security Council had restricted his travel.
But that didn't stop U.S. government contractors from paying Bout-controlled firms roughly $60 million to fly supplies into Iraq in support of the U.S. war effort, according to a book released last year by two reporters who investigated Bout. And it didn't prevent the U.S. military from giving Bout's pilots millions of dollars in free airplane fuel while they were flying U.S. supply flights.'
Posted by: drindl | March 7, 2008 8:55 AM
novamatt--
thanks for posting the Open Left link.
I must admit I am surprised at the nastines between the supporters of two candidates who have virtually the same policies.
I am an Obama supporter, but to be honest, I want this to end before it gets ugly and scarring--even if that means HRC is the nominee.
I am very disappointed in American politics and how easily it is to get so vitriol.
This should be very telling about our culture and our educational system.
Posted by: chadibuins | March 7, 2008 8:51 AM
SeedofChange is obviously the seed of hatred. He obviously is not a Christian and does not believe in Christ message of redemption. He obviously believes in guilt by association or by birth. If this is as good as the Republicans can do I really feel sorry for them. They came into power with Reagan's positive message of Morning in America and now all they can do is monger fear and hatred. I am sorry that Obama's message of hope scares you so much. I can only hope the Christ will touch your heart.
Posted by: bradcpa | March 7, 2008 8:02 AM
Thanks, Mark. That thread got overrun with the back-and-forth between Clinton and Obama supporters. Both sides really need to read and follow the links in this post at Open Left: http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=4380
Mostly what they need to do though is turn off their computers and go take a walk and meet new people and have a conversation with them.
Posted by: novamatt | March 7, 2008 7:59 AM
Mark-in-Austin. I may try to swing by your daughter's show case. I will be pretty revived up after Roki Erickson's ice cream social. I just can't miss a chance to see the best 2 minutes in Texas Rock & Roll (that would "Your Going to Miss Me" - 13th Floor Elevators).
Posted by: bradcpa | March 7, 2008 7:55 AM
Obama's muslim mother and father:
1. Mother married a muslim man who already had multiple wives in Kenya
2. Mother married a second muslim man to help bring up her "only child" after first husband left her
3. Mother moved her "only child" to Indonesia to provide a muslim environment and life style for her only child. Indonesia is the largest muslim country in the world and site of "Bali bombing". Indonesia is a terrorist hot bed.
4. Obama has no record of participating in Christian church activities in his early age
5. Obama has no record of participating in Christian church during college years.
6. Obama has no record of church activities after his graduation
7. Obama started church activities after he decided to run for public office and started participating in voter sign up activities. His church leader is friend with Farrahkhan
8. Obama's relation with Farrahkhan is unknown at this time
Obama can not win a general election.
Posted by: SeedofChange | March 7, 2008 7:48 AM
Add the Colorado 5th to the list. Betsy Markley is a more centrist candidate than Aggie Pacconi who has agreed not to run as has the Reform candidate who took 13% of the vote in a race that Pacconi came with in 6% of knocking off Marylyn Musgrave. True Musgrave has been rushing to the center but her past statements that the "Defense of the Family" amendment was the most important issue facing the country will haunt her. With a strong Democratic ticket in November I expect Markley to retire Musgrave
Posted by: bradcpa | March 7, 2008 7:48 AM
bradcpa - If you see this - my daughter and son-in-law are visiting from Bath, and their band, "Venus Bogardus", will play during SxSW at Zeno's on S. Congress 3-14, probably around 8P.
Posted by: mark_in_austin | March 7, 2008 7:46 AM
Novamatt, thanks for your thoughtful post on yesterday's "Clinton" thread. You made a credible case for that scenario.
The likely nomination of Sekula-Gibbs [R] to run in TX-22 does seem to take Lampson [D - incumbent] off the "endangered species" list.
Posted by: mark_in_austin | March 7, 2008 7:43 AM
Pretty telling that there isn't a Democrat on the list, not even Mahoney in FL 16. And what sweet revenge it would be to nab Jabba's seat.
Minority party + wave election part deux + bunch of retirements + weak recruiting + financing scandal + ineffective leadership + presidential turnout = lots of new Democratic freshmen wandering around the Capitol next January.
Posted by: novamatt | March 7, 2008 7:15 AM
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