2008 Presidential Election Weekly Poll

http://www.votenic.com

Results Now Posted Instantly! Barack Obama In the Lead!

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it is very inportant that the small states do count. hc has only won what 5 6 7 large states too ob's 10 11 12 states. come on ya without the small states hc can't win. SMALL STATES DO OUT WEIGH THE BIG STATES GO OB

I think people are starting to wake up and smell the hype and see the real world.

Hillary needs to keep on going. With all his money he didn't beat her in Pennsylvania and he was just as well known. Anyone who read the paper or watched TV knew who her opponent was before he announced.

Hillary won Florida. According to the Herald Hillary's opponent broke all the rules when he advertised. That was so wrong. Doesn't that show he intended and believed Florida would and should count. Hillary abided by the rules and is being punished because of it.

The DNC tried to take away the rights of the people in Florida. That was so wrong to tell them not to vote, to sit out the election. The people of Florida just got the raw end of the DNC. I think Hillary should get all their delegates and superdelegates since her opponent cheated there by putting out ads. He only withdrew his name from Michigan because he believed he would lose there.

Another note: The Clintons did not bring race into the issue. Bill complimented Obama in making a comparison to Jesse Jackson and they twisted what he said and took it out of context and used the lies to jumpstart Obama's campaign and it worked. Maybe people are waking up to that fact. Most just listen to the hype and don't pay any attention to what was actually said and don't listen to the actual people speaking.

Obama said from the very beginning, after Massachusetts, that his voters would definitely NOT (his emphasis in his speech)vote for Hillary but Hillary's voters would vote for him. I took issue with that. That was a terrible thing to say to try to get Hillary's voters to switch. He thinks he is exempt from questions, and scrutiny like Hillary is subject to.

Sorry guys, all the talk about "double digits" was premature. Today's near-final official count in Pennsylvania gives her a 9.2% lead. If she's looking for something to stop her slow death, that wasn't it.

Obama was outed with his comments about Pennsylvania people that cling to guns and religion etc. No matter what he meant the comment was insulting. Add that to the Reverend Wright controversy which may have been over if the insult to Pennsylvanians had not happened. Plus the Governor supported Ms. Clinton. Hillary won the primary but the nomination is something else. Neither have enough delegates to date so something will have to give once the primaries are over. It would be harmfull to delay the nomination until the convention.

Clinton was expected to win Pa. She has roots there and she played the dirty card game. I for one will vote for Sen. McCain if Clinton is nominated. The Clintons disgraced our White HOuse last time. IMpeachment, Lies, White Water, Rose law firm. This is not what I want to lead our country. Think about it folks. 4 to 8 years of Bill and Billary I am a 72 year old white woman from Florida Obama is a Breath of Fresh air. and would make a great peacemaker of the world.

Audry Marie

Don't think I could vote FOR Clinton in the unlikely event she wins the Democratic nomination. I probably just wouldn't vote. Obviously, no one in their right mind could vote for Bush or his substitute, which leaves me thinking the next President will be a Democrat regardless. No harm done, and I can still sleep at night.

People are losing site of the fact Hillary would be ahead if Micigan and Florida voters were counted. They will be in November and they will remember being disqualified.

Racism, yes it's alive and well and has been taught at Trinity church since 1979. Black Theology has been taught there since 1979. Black Theology teaches black people their problems are because of "white" people. Look it up, please. Also look up Nation of Islam, wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_Islam, Black Muslim
and read the platform, this is in line with Black Theoeogy. Look at this link it shows Trinity has been teaching/preaching :http://chronicle.uchicago.edu/000316/hopkins.shtml , Why is everyone turning a blind eye to this?

Black Theology and Black Muslim have nothing to do with religon. Black Theology and Black Muslim is a MOVEMENT. Please read the links and decide for yourself. Black preachers of all dominations are teaching Black Theology, again, not a religon a movement.

Hillary was never 20 points up. That was an outlier. Obama failed to erode any margin. He simply confirmed what was already there and lost big time. And Hillary won big time.

I agree with the first comment - it's time for it to stop.

Read the NY Times editorial -- Hillary's negativity has to end. Either she quits the race or she quits the negativity.

All of the Clintonites need to stop drinking the kool-aid and look at what took place. Yeah, clinton did win at 55% to 45%. But it was already a foregone conclusion six weeks earlier that she was going to win in Pennsylvania. That is not a surprise. What is a surprise is that she only won by 10 points. She was to have blown him out of the water and she failed to do just that. With all the negative remarks surrounding Obama in the last two weeks, it is amazing that he did alright considering the situation.

Hillary only managed to gain 16 delegates out of Pennsylvania. That is nothing to brag about. She needed to steamroll him and she failed. The days are numbered for Hillary and she wants to destroy the party in the process. Leave it to the Clintons to totally destroy everything if they don't get what they want.

It is amazing that in an election year where clearly the democrats have the momentum and the edge to crown the next president, the republicans are going to sneak in and take the Whitehouse once again. Only the democrats and be so stupid and ridiculous. This election should go down in history as a model for scholars to discuss as how not to screw up an election that should have been an easy "gimme".

As often is said, Australia being the 50+ state of the USA.

Predictions:

1/ It doesn't matter now who wins the democratic nomination!

2/ Clinton's have divided the party on "racial" lines!

3/ Come Nov 2nd Republicans will vote in force, many scared of what they have seen of the democrats over this period.

4/ White democrats maybe 10/20 % will not vote for Obama and Afro-Americans will not vote for Clinton 10/20 %. America still wants an old white guy in the "White" House.

5/ You don't have a history of "clean elections" 2000/8 are questionable!

6/ What percentage of voters will actually get out and vote? Maybe 45/55/65% a real democracy at work "Apath-o-democracy"

7/ The people's say, tells all around about the people of that nation. It would seem that the hatred seen by the world over Iraq/Afgan etc by the USA (Bush) is mirrored by the internal distrust/prejudice/race disquiet within the USA.

8/ Any "unity" social/cultural blah, blah about your country is a "myth" hidden by the powerful media.

9/ This is a defining piont in the history of the USA where the best person with the best ideas needs to be front and center. Your sensitivity to color and difference need Nov 2nd to be the evolution of the "sleeping giant" what potential greatness lies within!

10/ We all look forward to an enlightened experience come Nov 2nd!

As Hillary long ago lost any meaningful chance to win the nomination, the question is moot. The only thing she "won" is a license by certain sectors of this country to continue her scorched-earth policy against the Democratic party.

You will all object to my repeating myself, but after reading all the vitriolic, moronic nonsense above, I must say it once again: WHOEVER wins the Democratic nomination will be better than John McCain. McCain means a third Bush term, no matter how much he tries to distance himself from Dubya.

If you can't take a deep breath and vote Democratic in November, then YOU, NOT Clinton or Obama will be the one responsible for the inevitable disaster to follow. Can't bring yourself to vote for Clinton? for Obama? Then steel yourself for another four, maybe eight years of ruinous Republican rule. Want to sit on your hands and stay away from the polls in November? Hell, we might as well have McCain's coronation now . . .

Grow up, shut up, and vote Democratic in November.

I have to grant it to Senator Clinton; it definately was a Pyrrhic victory.

"This election should be a lession that every state should have their say. They should not of messed with Michigan and Florida voters. We have a right to have our say in this election also. Keep the fight going then Maybe the DNC would finally realize no state should be discriminated against in the election process. Sen. Obama abandoned our state's citizens in Michigan when he withdrew from the primary especially when the state is in crisis why should any leader or potential leader treat our citizens like we did not exist. That is detestable. Even though he wanted to obey the DNC sometimes we have to stand up for what is right even when the organization is wrong. Thank You Sen. Clinton for staying in the fight. Hope the DNC get's the message.

Is this poster demented or something? It is a little scary to think someone so out of touch is allowed to vote.

Some one called CSPAN this morning and expressed buyer's remorse for voting for Obama in IOWA! I wonder how many people feel that way, since the whole issue with Wright didn't come out until now. and if we knew then what we know now about Obama if he would have come this far. I think John Edwards might have had a better chance. I don't think Obama answered the question of why he was in that church by giving the speech on race in general terms. We all know there are still problems in this country about race, the question is about him in particular. He has a way of avoiding the questions and answering a different one or blaming people for bringing up unpleasant issues about him, like he did in the PA debate. Until he can answer these satisfactorily, I don't think he can win against John McCain. I am glad Hillary is not a quitter. GOOOOOO Hillary!

Seedof... bla, bla, bla,bla,bla........

Amazing how Clinton can spin lies into "memory lapses" how she can spin vitrol into "what the public must know" and how she can do math much less successfully than any third grader. Clinton CANNOT WIN THIS RACE. She has done a great deal of damage to her own party and she obviously has such a huge ego that nothing matters but her and her victory. I am a democrat and former Clinton supporter, and I am embarrassed. Embarrassed that she has conned this many people, embarrassed that she has used the race card against a good and fair man. She is a skunk. Her husband is a bigger skunk and the biggest part of this race is how their former "friends" are bailing as soon as they can. She will NOT win and the hatred and vitrol that she has spewed in the last couple of months will hopefully bite her in the behind when she has to run for Senator again. I know I will never vote for a Clinton again. I am HORRIFIED Hillary.

"Maybe we should acknowledge that Hillary Clinton is a pretty impressive candidate. She's tough, disciplined, and not unappealing."

With all due respect, I beg to differ. She is a mediocre speaker, some 65% of the voters say she's not trustworthy ('cause she lies), and her poor management skills, first manifested during the health-care fiasco in '93, have been confirmed in spades by the chaotic, revolving-door campaign she has run so far.

As for her "back-to-the-wall" victories -- Ohio and Pennsylvania, that is, since Obama won Texas -- have been secured by scorched earth tactics and the character assassination of the man who has about a 75-80% chance of being her party's nominee.

I'll give you "tough" and "disciplined," but "not unappealing?" I have to hit the "mute" button when she starts to speak, and it's gotten to the point where I can't even stand to look at her. The thought of that annoying monotone and head-bobbing for 4 or 8 years is enough to make me commit harakiri.

I guess you could say she's "impressive," all right -- but not the way I think you meant it.

A win is a win, but Clinton needed a more impressive win, and Pennsylvania is NOT reflective of the US population....the $$ he spent were needed to overcome the "unfavorable" demographics.

Alas, Obama might have to "Dance with the Devil" on this one..how does it go? Keep your friends close but your enemies closer?...Clinton just has too much support, and ironically, he may have to demonstrate his ability to unite and flip negatives and paradoxes by embracing them (The Billarys) as his running mates....!

This election should be a lession that every state should have their say. They should not of messed with Michigan and Florida voters. We have a right to have our say in this election also. Keep the fight going then Maybe the DNC would finally realize no state should be discriminated against in the election process. Sen. Obama abandoned our state's citizens in Michigan when he withdrew from the primary especially when the state is in crisis why should any leader or potential leader treat our citizens like we did not exist. That is detestable. Even though he wanted to obey the DNC sometimes we have to stand up for what is right even when the organization is wrong. Thank You Sen. Clinton for staying in the fight. Hope the DNC get's the message.

Clinton wins a personal victory, but her selfish determination to carry on a campaign despite certain failure in the long run is providing the Republican party the negative ad campaign all the ammo it needs. Get a grip on reality here Hillary. Don't make yourself out to be the evil woman who denied a truly great presidential candidate the chance to win the general election.

Senator Hillary Clinton has real solutions for American families.
Vote smart. Be pragmatic. Vote for the best candidate. Vote for Senator Hillary Clinton!

Senator Hillary Clinton is ugly and unpleasant, and she has far too positive a view of her own ability and general worth.

And she is utterly uncultured.

Senator Hillary Clinton had a nice victory in Pennsylvania. She is a fighter. Senator Clinton will win the next nine primaries.

Obama could have won big if he would have courted one of the actors from The Office. He would have stolen Scranton from Hillary which would have looked very bad. How? Scranton worships the NBC sitcom since the place it takes place in is Scranton.

Hillary lives to fight another day, never, ever count this "amazing and gutsy woman" OUT! Not yet, believe me, she has more courage and fight in her than those who despise her could possibly understand.

This is a woman of great complexity with many, many layers to her. She is not a WITCH, No more a LIAR than any other pol, she's a PRAGMATIST and knows, instinctively and realistically that "politics as usual" will always rule in Washington, D.C.

This is not a cynical view, but reflects the truth of human behavior: "Power corrupts and Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely!" As long as there is greed, envy, people who crave power and prestige, this is what will continue to motivate Washington as it does virtually every large business or corporation in this country and elsewhere.

And, anyone who doubts this is either a complete fool or an absolute innocent!

I think it is time for Obama to get out. Funny to see who is backing him in the US Senate. All the old timers. Kennedy, Leahy and others. Because the old timers know they can control Obama and it is the old timers who need to go for change to happen. On the other hand they have no chance of controlling Clinton.

Posted by: Ray | April 23, 2008 4:15 PM
------------------------
Funny Ray, that reminded me of a story the NY Times did on that subject last month.

'He went to the Senate intent on learning the ways of the institution, telling reporters he would be "looking for the washroom and trying to figure out how the phones work." But frustrated by his lack of influence and what he called the "glacial pace," he soon opted to exploit his star power. He was running for president even as he was still getting lost in the Capitol's corridors.'

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/09/us/politics/09obama.html?ei=5124&en=9603c2103ebef2c6&ex=1362718800&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink&pagewanted=print

Senator Hillary Clinton had an important victory in Pennsylvania.
Also, a couple of weeks ago, Elizabeth Edwards back up Senator Hillary Clinton's Health Care Plan. I am hoping that former Senator John Edwards will endorse Senator Hillary Clinton as well. His pledged delegates will help Senator Hillary Clinton to closed the gap. Vote smart. Vote for a mandate in health care. Vote for the best option. Vote for Senator Hillary Clinton.

I think it is time for Obama to get out. Funny to see who is backing him in the US Senate. All the old timers. Kennedy, Leahy and others. Because the old timers know they can control Obama and it is the old timers who need to go for change to happen. On the other hand they have no chance of controlling Clinton.

I don't understand why the Dems don't have primaries like the GOP, with voting and not caucus'. In fact why not a primary like we have with our general election, all held on the same day, and you can vote for the party you are registered for only.

VANMAP: "Dsimon hasn't read the fine print: the DNC arbritarily decided to penalize 2 states even though five states actually broke the same rule."

I'm aware there was some jockeying among the small states. The DNC apparently felt that those rules violations were not significant enough to warrant punishment. Big states breaking the line apparently was.

Saying "they did it too" is like telling a cop that since the person in front of you was speeding, you shouldn't get a ticket for speeding. Sorry, you break the rule, you run the risk.

FL and MI were strongly warned by the DNC, and even had options after sanctions were imposed.

And no one who supports just seating FL and MI as is has said how rampant line-jumping will be prevented if sanctions are not imposed. If you think this year was bad, just wait until next time unless those states are subjected to some severe penalty.

I live in a Philadelphia surburb. If you take the city/county of Philadelphia out of the mix, the Clinton win is most impressive. Philadelphia will go for whomever is the Democratic candidate, but the Democrats need someone who can carry the rest of the state and that is clearly Clinton.

A LITTLE RELATIONSHIP INFORMATION about Washington D.C.: you are not invisible.

American Enterprise Institute aei.org
Richard Perle, Michael Ledeen, Newt Gingrich, David Frum

Also: Project for New American Century (aka "PNAC") newamericancentury.org
William Kristol, Robert Kagan, Paul Wolfowitz, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Michael Ledeen, Jeb Bush, Frank Gaffeny, Elliot Abrams, Thomas Donnelly, Eliot Cohen, Richard Perle, John R. Bolton, David Frum. Their infamous "Rebuilding America's Defenses" report outlined their aggressive intentions and the need for a "new Pearl Harbor".

Also: Weekly Standard Magazine weeklystandard.com
Editor William Kristol hosts a whole raft of neocon writers
@1150 17th Street, NW

2. Paul H. Nitze School of Advanced International Studies sais-jhu.edu
Paul Wolfowitz, Frank Gaffney, Thomas Donnelly, Eliot Cohen
@1740 Massachusetts Avenue, NW

3. Saban Center for Mideast Policy brookings.edu/dybdocroot/sabancenter/
(Neo-liberals do neo-conservativism"lite") Martin Indyk, Kenneth M. Pollack @1775 Massachusetts Ave NW

4. Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs jinsa.org
Michael Ledeen, Richard Perle, Elliot Abrams, James Woolsey, Frank Gaffney, Jay Garner, Tom Neumann, J. Kenneth Blackwell (OH Attorney General)
@1779 Massachusetts, NW, Ste 515

5. Foundation for Defense of Democracies defenddemocracy.org
Newt Gingrich, James Woolsey, Gary Bauer, Frank Gaffney, Marc Ginsberg, Bill Kristol, Charles Krauthammer, Richard Perle
@1020 19th St NW, Suite 340

6. Center for Security Policy centerforsecuritypolicy.org
Richard Perle, James Woolsey, Elliott Abrams, Frank Gaffney, Douglas Feith, Dov Zakheim [IRAN_CONTRA THUGS FOR DRUGS GANG]
@1920 L Street, N.W. Suite 210 (K and L)

7. Washington Institute for Near East Policy washingtoninstitute.org
Martin Indyk, Mortimer Zuckerman, Martin Peretz.
Spin-off of American-ISRAEL Public Affairs Committee.
@1828 L Street NW, Suite 1050

8. Center for Strategic & International Studies csis.org
Brent Scowcroft, James Woolsey, Henry Kissinger, James Schlesinger
@1800 K Street, NW Suite 400

9. Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies israeleconomy.org
David Wurmser; Published Richard Perle's Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm (June 1996).
@1020 16th Street, NW

what does this posting mean? not a lot, it's simply that these people work the same job...

a combination of ANTI_ISLAM, PRO ZIONIST, BIG OIL, IRAN CONTRA THUGS FOR DRUGS...

con's piracy GROUPS...you know liars of little mental ability...so obvious are their actions that a person of ordinary intelligence can work out their dishonesty quite easily by searching the net for information about the names from any one group.

Cristol is associated most frequently with PNAC/AEI and ZIONISM...

I believe he has been recorded breaking the law regarding espionage with ISRAEL as the recipient of verbotten information, but I could be mistaken. I know for sure that Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Perle have been caught passing classified information to Israeli agents...

anyway, these organizations are the cream of neoconism...better known as latter day NAZIS pretending to be jewish

.

BUSH APPOINTEES: Gale A. Norton: Secretary of the Interior (retired)
Appointed Gale A. Norton, former mining industry lobbyist and current secretary of the interior: She is a proponent of "self-audit" laws, which allow industries to decide on their own whether or not they comply with environmental regulations. In her writings, she actually suggested that there is a "homesteading right to pollute". Among many proposals of note: abolishing the Bureau of Land Management, selling off fish and wildlife refuges "the transfer to private ownership of federally held, so-called public lands." In her current position at Brownstein, Hyatt, Norton has been working as a registered lobbyist for NL Industries. NL Industries is a defendant in approximately 75 governmental and private actions associated with waste disposal sites, mining locations and facilities.

BUSH APPOINTEE: J. Steven Griles: Deputy Secretary of the Interior (now in jail):

A former oil and coal lobbyist, J. Steven Griles violated recusal agreements in order to lobby on behalf of a company he formerly owned and from which he is not fully divested. A longtime lobbyist for the energy industry, Griles has met regularly with clients of his former employer, National Environmental Strategies (NES), during his tenure at Interior while receiving $284,000 per year from NES as part of a $1.1 million payout for his "client base." Griles has played a key role in decisions affecting the Clean Air Act, oil and gas leasing on the Outer Continental Shelf, coal bed methane development in Wyoming's Powder River Basin, and wetland permit rules. While a lobbyist, Griles represented oil, gas and coal clients with interests in these same issues. Lawsuit Filed to Obtain Information about Payments from Previous Employer and Meetings with Former Mining, Oil and Gas Industry Clients Griles eventually pleaded guilty to obstructing Congress, becoming the highest-ranking Bush administration official convicted in the Jack Abramoff lobbying scandal.

BUSH APPOINTEE: Lynn Scarlett: Undersecretary of the Interior

Recycling foe Lynn Scarlett, one of the architects of Bush's "new environmentalism". Scarlett began working for the libertarian Reason Foundation, becoming its president and CEO in 2001. The Reason Foundation is funded by industry groups such as the American Forest and Paper Association, the American Petroleum Institute, American Plastics Council, Chevron Corporation, Dow Chemical, etc. The author of "A Consumer's Guide to Environmental Myths and Realities," Scarlett cites the following as common myths about the environment: Disposables Are Bad; We Are Running Out of Resources; Americans Are Especially Wasteful; etc. Scarlett was a board member of The Thoreau Institute which "seeks ways to protect the environment without regulation, bureaucracy, or central control."

ProudtobeGOP says: "The plans outlined by Clinton and Obama will stifle economic growth and prevent us from moving forward in the global ecomomy."

Does ProudtobeGOP really think that Bush's miserable economic policy is doing this country any good? It is, in fact, Bush's awful handling of the economy that has placed the American dollar in such peril. And it is precisely because the American dollar is so weak in the global economy that OPEC members wish to stop pricing oil based on the U.S. dollar. The only people benefiting under Bush's economic policies are the wealthiest Americans and corporations ... the core of Bush's base. As a middle-class American, I can honestly say that I am doing far worse today than I was 10 years ago. And I blame Bush directly for the downturn in my own economic crisis. Yes, I still have a job. Yes, I can still pay my mortgage. And, yes, I can still put some money away in my savings every week. But why am I paying $3.50 for a gallon of gas while the oil companies are earning a record-setting $160 billion in profits? Why am I paying 50% more at the grocery store every week? Why am I paying just as much in taxes, but the national debt is growing astronomically larger every year?

If you think that the worst thing that can happen to you is a tax increase, then think again. The worst thing that can happen to this country is that we find ourselves in the grips of a long-term recession and we suffer more economic harm than we have in the recent past. I would rather pay more in taxes and have a more responsible President (at least, one more responsible than Bush) than see my country being mismanaged as badly as it has been for the last 7+ years!

Deep inside, Hillary wishes she could have lost in PA and gets over with it and her own money.

She knows she cannot win over McCain in November.

We don't need a queen and king in the White House, or do we?

We can't afford to take one more American dynasty. Hillary will be worse than Bush.

Deep inside, Hillary wishes she could have lost in PA and gets over with it and her own money.

She knows she cannot win over McCain in November.

We don't need a queen and king in the White House, or do we?

It's time we say goodbye to American dynasty. Hillary will be worse than Bush.

Dsimon hasn't read the fine print: the DNC arbritarily decided to penalize 2 states even though five states actually broke the same rule.

So the DNC rules, as they have been referred to, bend according to what Howard Dean wants.

So, the rules that were "changed" in those two states were arbitraily removed of their votes and delegates under the direction of the DNC.

Shall we also hold Obama accountible for everything he has said, such as, "In the end, that's what this election is about. Do we participate in a politics of cynicism or a politics of hope?"

If you watch his speech on CSPAN after the PA election his words are not hopeful, they're cynical and angry.

If we count his Bitter and Cling comments, they were not hopeful, they were cynical.

Or shall we only make Hillary account for everything she says!!!

Double Standard- Obama Standard

I got money on it that

bushCO und CRONYs helped Nicolas Sarkozy win an election in France...

I am pretty sure that those "riots," may have had some help getting started...

you know...wouldn't be the first time bushCO and CRONYs overthrew a perfectly fine working country by persuading the people that things weren't working fine...

that it was all the socialists, the populists, or the communists fault...

what do those three groups have in common ???

well, none of them works perfectly by themselves, but they all require that labor gets paid it's fair share...

outsourcing has been troubliing FRANCE Germany SWEDEN Britain and other European countries...

INTERNATIONAL companies that manufacture in other countries and claim to be of a particular nationality in order to avoid import fees...

are making a few families rich while stripping their countries wealth from the middle class, and leaving them vulnerable to being manipulated... and stripped of the benefits of being citizens... as services are stripped away and the elites enjoy a time of

little or no taxes....

nut them, and turn them lose with the wolves....

put them in with other predators, while they are bleeding...

.

Dsimon hasn't read the fine print: the DNC arbritarily decided to penalize 2 states even though five states actually broke the same rule.

So the DNC rules, as they have been referred to, bend according to what Howard Dean wants.

So, the rules were "changed" in that two states were arbitraily removed of their votes and delegates under the direction of the DNC.

Shall we also hold Obama accountible for everything he has said, such as, "In the end, that's what this election is about. Do we participate in a politics of cynicism or a politics of hope?"

If you watch his speech on CSPAN after the PA election his words are not hopeful, they're cynical and angry.

If we count his Bitter and Cling comments, they were not hopeful, they were cynical.

Or shall we only make Hillary account for everything she says!!!

Double Standard- Obama Standard

In a perfect world where one would place service to the party & country above ego, Hill would stay in to May or June. In doing so she would run her campaign in a way that not would tear down Senator Obama. There is a way to get the point across that you are the better candidate without destroying the other guy. I am beginning to think that perhaps Hill & Bill do not want Obama to win if he is the party standard bearer. This is the year that Slick Willie has returned speaking out of both sides of his mouth. It seems that what Chris Matthews hit upon-the Clintons think that the party belongs to them & that they are entitled to Hill being the next president is correct.He also points out that some people decided as to how they wre going to vote back in 1957. The primary in PA is proving that to also be correct.
John Mc Cain could very well win the White House but his ideas and philosophy are dead wrong for our country. While I have deep respect for his service to our country just because he is a war hero doesn't mean I am going to salute & vote for him. We have endured 8 years of a 15 year old boy in the White House-Bill and we are now closing in on another child's term in office- George Bush The difference is that this child is a 5 year old with some serious daddy issues.
At a time when we need leadership we end up with three people who have some serious holes in their resumes. Hillary is very capable but her Nixon type tendencies to win no matter what has to be done and folding the truth in does not forecast a presidency that will go well. Her husband the former president is so desperate for attention that he has squandered his name and reputation. Senator Obama is showing that for all his intelligence and ability to run a winning campaign he still cannot overcone the inherent racial divisions within the country especially among older white voters & down & out white males. Senator Mc Cain reminds me in a way of a more irritable Bob Dole. His economic plan will do more harm than good. Phil Gramm who is in part responsible for the deregulation of the financial system that lead to the current sub prime mess is one of his key economic advisors. As far as I know no one in the main news media has examined the Mc Cain record and his ideas . Heaven forbid that they should examine the war hero's record or ideas !
So where does this leave us? Lets see- both Hill & Bill channel Nixon, Obama channels Stevenson & Mc Cain channels either Dr. Strangelove or Mr. Potter . This is an important election because America is hanging on a thread and we are going to end up having either a new version of the Hill & Bill show, Chuckles the Clown goes to Washington or Mc Hales Navy goes to Washington. Just think in another two years this insanity begins all over again. Somewhere in Texas. Turd Blossom. aka Karl Rove is rolling around in hysterics laughing.No wonder President Bush is dancing in New Orleans smiling.

BTW- Something to ponder for those of you who are upset if your choice of candidate, Hillary or Obama doesn't get the nomination. A vote for Mc Cain is a vote to continue the direction & spirit of the Bush presidency. I would also like to point out for all those women who will be mad as anything if Hillary doesn't get the nomination just think of what a Mc Cain presidency will do for women. John MCain is not a misogamist but there will be some Supreme Court vacancies to be filled. If Roe vrs Wade is rolled back look for the conservative justices to begin to roll back other important issues regarding women's health. Remember everyone the Supreme Court is the big prize in the next election. Keep that in mind when you tell someone if my person doesn't win I am sitting out the election or voting Republican. Do not go crying a few years from today because you sat in your anger over the Democratic primary results!

C. Feher @12:39, barring Clinton dropping out of the race, can Obama "mathematically capture enough delegates in the upcoming primaries to win"??

Granted there are still a few votes to count, but unless my calculator is off, the Clinton win was not double digits but high single digits, 9.4 percent.

major republi conner ploy is to

use the "tar baby,"

accuse and engage

like the rascist ploy.

catch a clue little enders...

you're in Jonathan Swift - Gulliver's Travels

stupidity and being led by stupidity tug of war...

engaging in it means you are stupid enough to punch the tarbaby

grow up move on.

talk about some real issues.

solve the race issue by talking past it

give it a try moe rons

.

Truth Hunter asks, "Tell me, just how is Clinton going to win? According to all the number crunchers, there is no way. So, why keep up the 'kitchen sink' negative campaign against nominee Obama, doing McCain's work for him. It makes no sense, unless you're a Republican."

First, I am not a Republican. I am a Democrat and a Hillary Clinton supporter. According to all the political pundits (and I believe this, as well), Hillary Clinton can still win based on superdelegate votes. I believe that the superdelegates will actually get on board with Clinton now that she has won Pennsylvania. Plus she isn't out of the races in the remaining states. And that's all that she needs to win the nomination.

Second, I wonder why people insist that Obama is above reproach? Why do Obama's supporters feel that he must be treated with kid gloves and not be questioned about anything of importance? To suggest that Obama's policies are not as good as (or, at best, only as good as) Clinton's is tantamount to heresy in the Obama camp. That's just not true. I find Obama's treatment of the important issues to be of less substance than necessary to win me over. He is, unfortunately, more about telling us how well he's doing in the primary, as opposed to telling us about his solutions to the real problems that face middle-class voters, such as myself. Let's face it: If Obama and his supporters are crying foul over the treatment that he's getting from Clinton and her supporters, then he really should just take himself out of the race right now. Because if Obama is the Democratic nominee in this race, he will be raked over the coals so badly that it will make all of us cringe. Did you think that the swift boating of Kerry was bad? That was nothing compared to what the Republicans have in store for Obama. Oh, don't get me wrong. Hillary will get the same treatment (and possibly even worse). I know that Hillary can stand the heat? Can Barack? I doubt it. He should probably leave the kitchen right now.

People may think it's a lousy system. They may be right. But it's impossible to tell how the candidates would have done under a metric that was never the objective of the campaigns. All we have is the system we have, and the results that system gives us. To change the metric now would be like changing the rules at the end of the game. And I think most superdelegates know, or should know, this.

Posted by: dsimon | April 23, 2008 2:14 PM
-----------------------------------
Hey Simon, I thought you were going on vacation? Just like Chris did, blogging every day.

I agree that the rules can't be changed in the middle of the election but the people of those states will go to court if the DNC does not find a way out. I have been saying that if neither one gets enough delegates it will come down to the supers, who are on their own and will listen to the party loyal.

Yesterday all I heard from the BO supporters is "IF Hillary wins it will be only by 1 or 2 points but BO is gonna upset her tomorrow" now they are saying she really didn't win because of the math?! No matter how you spin it, she won! The math will take care of itself as the voters continue to vote. Our system is set up to decide the best candidate when neither can get the needed delegates to win! With all votes counting, she has the popular vote! I am sick of the media trying to tell me by their bais to vote BO. I will not vote for him until he goes back to the senate and earns the vote with hard work as Hillary did instead of getting E. Jones to "make" him a record to run on! I'll not vote for him as long as he lies and says he isn't playing politics when to anyone with eyes they can see he is just as "dirty" as the rest of them! I'll not vote for a black man who screams "racism" at every turn! One can't disagree with BO and not be called a racist! The American people don't know him, he has no record of his own to measure him with. IF BO is truly wanting what is best for this country I don't think he would be running until 2016...His ego is far greater than his experience. I see arrogrance, not confidence! I've read his books and in the beginning was excited about him coming up in the ranks of dems. I knew we would win with Hillary and then have BO for another 8 yrs. Then as I got to know more of him all it did was give me cause to pause and say "who is this guy that says one thing and does another?" his supporters maybe blind to his "con" but I am not. I will vote McCain in nov. if BO wins. He is not ready AT THIS TIME to be president. Bo may win the battle but he will lose the war! We as dems will wake up depressed Nov. 3rd once again!

you want a quick fix ???

that will be painless for you_all ???

but will help you determine how patriotic your presidente' by fraud and his people are ????

CONSCRIPT THE CONTRACTORS...

pass a law that will make everyone involved in IRAQ y AFGHANISTAN either military or GS Scale civilians under control of

GAO or the MILITARY at military and GS Scale pay grades...

cut the budget by 1/3 and give the citizens oversight on what is spent...

how much is Blackwater making, and what are their projects ???

you don't know, because it's classfied, and yet you are paying for every penney of it....sshould sound like complete BullSHYYTE to you if you have a brain...

AMERICA IS BEING DRAINED FOR THE BENEFIT OF A FEW....and they ain't all AMERICANS.

WAKE UP PEOPLE

....pull your head out of your buts and arrest those people, who are using you as an enslaved class...

take action.

.

republicans are trying to sell the idea

that "race is an issue,"

they been using it to keep from paying the

40 ACRES and a mule debt for about 160 years....go figure.

when the country is run for a few people...

and those few people don't understand that

stupid decisions affect their futures, they their futures decline as well...

consider a simple example:

a one time harvesting of the money saved on labor costs by outsourcing all jobs to cheaper laborers overseas....

reduces consumption, eventually...

although several small iterations of that cycle occur until in order to be made as cheaply as possible and be competitive EVERYTHING IS OUTSOURCED...

still the bottom line is that most citizens are making much less or the same amount as they were 14 years ago...

even as things cost more, in general, certainly energy costs more...

so now you have a civilian population that has much less "extra income," and no real future to look forward to...

because manufacturing pays for

and requires

1. lawyers
2. accountants
3. payroll
4. tax accountants
5. logistics shipping and recieving packaging rail materials
6. sub industries that supply parts or some subset of the manufacturing needs, cleaning supplies etc.

and so on...

when you shut down a blue collar city by moving manufacturing overseas, you take away all of the white collar jobs that support that manufacturing effort as well...

you get ripple effects several layers deep for several years....

drug money laundering in mortgages is not going to have the same effect on an economy as turning out...

20 MILLION vehichles made in the United States from United States products....

quality is an issue, but just talking about the flow of money...

you can't move everything overseas and have a healthy economy. PERIOD, IT'S NOT POSSIBLE....there isn't a flow

adiabatic flow...

READ THIS:
begin quote
"
another poster, horend wrote:

Maverick, I find understanding the markets difficult but will explain some of what I've learned.

GDP growth is not all derived from manufacturing as we are lead to believe.

It is the movement of money from one business transaction - a product is not necessarily created, but fees are generated, mortgages, corporate buyouts, downsizing, transactional legal fees, selling of credit derivatives, etc.

These constitute the movement of money which registers GDP growth although nothing was created.

There is also a report from two leading economics I believe at Harvard which discusses how the Bush administration has incorrectly equated imports as GDP growth.

If oil were sold in Euros and not dollars, the US would lose primary control of the oil markets. There was discussion that prior to our invasion of Iraq, Saddam Hussein was planning to revalue Iraqi oil in euros, thereby destablizing american markets. Further discussion can be found on line, about the joining of Mexico, Canada and the US - the Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America which calls for use of a common currency the Amero. To justify a common currency between our three countries, the dollar must bottom out so this idea can be sold to the American public. Which to me explains the almost intentional devaluation of our currency.
"
end quote.

the important part to me, is that bushCO and CRONYs are treating imported/foreign manufactured goods as_if they were made in_country....saying that they ecomomy is good, when it's in the shxxter because of their "creative accounting," aka FRAUD

.

Words of Wisdom: "The WILL OF THE PEOPLE is vastly more important in a democracy than the decisions of a rules committee of people from Washington DC who thought that Harry Reid's Nevada should leapfrog Florida and Michigan."

If those states voted two weeks early in the general election, no one would even think of counting the results.

And there is still no answer to the problem of how to keep states from voting earlier and earlier if no sanction is applied. We'd be voting two Labor Days before the general election. That would be terrible for the party.

And the Clinton campaign seemed quite content with the sanctions--until it looked like she'd need their votes. To see how she was for sanctions before she was against them, see this article in Slate:
http://www.slate.com/id/2188985/

And enough with the "popular vote." If the party wanted to have a popular vote contest, we could have had one. We didn't. It's not the one the candidates planned for or spent their resources on. No reasonable candidate would have tried to get votes that did not lead to pledged delegates.

People may think it's a lousy system. They may be right. But it's impossible to tell how the candidates would have done under a metric that was never the objective of the campaigns. All we have is the system we have, and the results that system gives us. To change the metric now would be like changing the rules at the end of the game. And I think most superdelegates know, or should know, this.

Posted by: | April 23, 2008 1:57 PM

Pundits rightly point out that a major detriment to superdelegates' endorsement of Hillary Clinton would be the Party's loss of support by African Americans and its bitter abandonment by youthful provisional Democrats who voted for the first time in nomination contests.

Individuals' massive response to the Wednesday night travesty (ABC's ambush, joined by Hillary and McCain) may well set a pattern for reaction to any superdelegate actions deemed unDemocratic in terms of majorities of popular voters, pledged delegates and states won. Bloggers are plentiful, active, articulate and in many cases angry.
------------------------------------------

Don't ya just love the rational of Obama supporters? It's okay to disenfranchise millions of voters in MI/FL but we can't disenfranchise African American or youth?

The tactic to remove Hillary poste haste before PA, would have even disenfranchised even more voters, potentially over ten million voters.

That's okay! That's democractic! Superdelegates approve?

And the so-called travesty? You better bet we're in real trouble if we allow a repeat where the media controls elections and protects Presidents who "say one thing and than say they meant something else," Presidents who wanted to "change" Washington with a passionate conservative message...

"Change" already had an 8 year run...

Posted by: John from New Hampshire

Since when does the Wellesley and Yale educated $109 million woman become a working-class hero?

What in the world does she have in common with the blue-collar Pennsylvania boys who like to hunt and slam back a few?

I think race plays a much bigger role in this primary season than the politically-correct pundits are willing to admit.

___________________________________________________

well John from New Hampshire, you seem to suffer from the same myopia that ba ba man suffers from...

" Pennsylvania boys who like to hunt and slam back a few,"

even in England the blue collar like to hunt and slam back a few....the pub is the gathering place for families in Great Britain, Scotland and Ireland...

discussion and eruditeness is not a class thing there...nor is achievement based upon skillset seen as

not of the people.

simpletons in the United States have targeted the population the citizens the people

of these United States and tried to make life easier for them by telling them what

the upper caste thought they needed to know, what would make them easier to handle...

I doubt you or any other poster here really understand that the United States is being run for a few people, and not all of them are AMERICANSs

I doubt you could tell me the relationship between Douglas Feith, Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, Donald Rumsfeld, James Baker III, and the Kagans

or how the current US Ambassador to the UN fits into that...

could you?

why not.

because D.A.'s like you always talk about

ideas that are "appeal to emotion," based....

FALLACIES OF REASONING...

and sell that, because you are personally intellectually deficient and can not talk outside of the range of

nickel and dime concepts.

keerect ?

.

Pennsylvania was hers to lose, and the fact that Obama closed her considerable lead that much still demonstrates strength. If he could do that while being stuck with the stupid, media created boondoggles of Rev Wright and the "bitter" comments, then gee, I think we have a viable candidate.

As for some extensive post, which was posted at least two times with regards to "race" and Obama with reference to "blacks," I must say that I agree with you for finding favor in Obama. However, the entire racial post just boils under my skin like noone would Believe! It is far irritating. Please, do realize that a DIVERSE crowd finds favor in Obama for 1. For 2, "blacks" are a minority in terms of population, and they only reserve some fraction of Obama's support versus the rest of the masses. I urge all people with this frame of thought, to develop more thoughts of unity, and find SOME WAY to get out of aiding this divisive idea behind "race." That is SO divisive. The fewer the people this country has to participate with that, the better. Instead of calling "blacks" to boycott, why not call on PEOPLE in general?? It's annoying. We are ALL of the HUMAN RACE. Unfortunately racism still exists, but we can choose to battle the divisive ideals instead of participating in it, and that's my point. Our genes go far back to the same very two persons whom were the first of this planet. We need to be more open-minded than we are close-minded. That post isn't very appealing on Obama's team in my personal opinion. I think we as a people in general are better than that, and our actions should serve accordingly.

Look at the many Super delegates Obama has gained the support of. Recognize that Obama has the support of others across parties, independents, of every status you can possibly think of, Obama has support. Obama has made history simply with his current position. I absolutely disagree with almost every single part of that post. I am glad we support the same candidate, but I think the level of reasoning needs some work. That's not intended to be an insult. I am concerned because of what I don't understand with that post.

Understand what this country faces, what a diverse crowd faces. Deside what general side you're on and how your vote can impact the country. Period.

This is the post of the day...

"Clinton's double digit victory in PA is the surest mandate yet that those votes in Florida and Michigan must be counted. The people of PA have spoken, and they said "Count those votes!"

Anyone who says otherwise is stupid and wrong."

You want to count MI as is... LOL
Did Howard Wolfson post this?

... REGARDING WHY ARE WE IN AFGHANISTAN? ....

drugs and oil and gas:

a news article from DENMARK:

The pre-planned attack on Afghanistan, as we have seen, was meant to nullify the contract between the Taliban and the Bridas Corporation, to assure access to the Caspian Basin riches for American oil companies. It was a pure play of international energy policy.

It had nothing to do, as designed, with apprehending Osama bin Laden--a pure play of security policy.[...]On October 7, 2001 the carpet of bombs is unleashed over Afghanistan.

Hamid Karzai, the former Unocal/CHEVRON consultant, is installed as head of an interim government. Subsequently he is elected President of Afghanistan, and welcomes the first U.S. envoy--Mr. John J. Maresca, Vice President for International Relations of the Unocal Corporation, who had implored Congress three years previously to have the Taliban overthrown.

Mr. Maresca was succeeded by Mr. Zalmay Khalilzad--also a former Unocal/CHEVRON consultant. Mr. Khalilzad has since become Ambassador to Iraq. With the Taliban banished and the Bridas contract moot, Presidents Karzai of Afghanistan and Musharraf of Pakistan meet on February 8, 2002, sign an agreement for a new pipeline, and the way forward is open for Unocal/CHEVRON once more. [ Mr. Khalilzad has since become Ambassador to the United Nations.] replacing Bolton of JINSA/AEI fame...

search on PNAC JINSA Douglas Feith Perle and see who else is backing bush...

further on, read this closely...

it has to do with money and OIL PROFITEERING AS WELL AS USING THE UNITED STATES MILITARY FOR PERSONAL PROFIT.... Hamid Karzai, the former Unocal/CHEVRON consultant, is installed as head of an interim government. Subsequently he is elected President of Afghanistan, and welcomes the first U.S. envoy--

Mr. John J. Maresca, Vice President for International Relations of the Unocal Corporation, who had implored Congress three years previously to have the Taliban overthrown. Mr. Maresca was succeeded by Mr. Zalmay Khalilzad--also a former Unocal consultant.

Mr. Khalilzad has since become Ambassador to Iraq. UNOCAL IS CHEVRON...

CHEVRON HAD CHENEY CUT THE PIPELINE DEAL A FEW MONTHS AGO W/IRAQ AND PAKISTAN,

CONDO SLEAZY represents BIG OIL, IS A FORMER CHEVRON BOARD OF DIRECTORS for 10 years before joining

bushCO & CRONYs...

your team spending AMERICA's money on themselves...as AMERICA's infrastructure takes a NOSE DIVE...

skin them alive, metaphorically of course...

your boy, george w. small beans is fraud and sodomite in chief...

a liar daddys boy with no competence and no skillset...

that is why rather than negotiating for the oil , they are stealing it....

or rather bushCO and CRONYs are using taxpayer dollars and taxpayer lives to pay for their business expenses cool eh? ...

it costs them

_________________N_O_T_H_I_N_G_______________

they still got their legs don't they ???

Wow, there is so much racist tripe on this site, I don't know what to do. It's really hurtful to read. I don't know if you HRC people follow this election at all. It seems your heads are in the sands. It's clear that it was not Obama that chose to go negative initially. It's clear that it was not Obama who never missed an opportunity to focus upon useless tripe. It's HRC. But, he's had to match her tone somewhat and, thereby, is sullying himself along with her. But she's left him no choice. If you don't follow the election closely enough to realize who's doing what here, then you really shouldn't be submitting your thoughts on a forum where people are politically savvy. Uh oh! I guess that thought makes me an elitist. Ultimately, you people who make the HRC has won the big states argument are congenitally stupid. As has been said earlier, there's almost no chance that McCain is going to win states like NY and CA in the general election. You're also discounting the possibility of HRC campaigning for an Obama presidency. Of course, how she does this credibly when both her and Bill have, at various times stated that Obama is unqualified to be President is beyond me. Other than the caustic tone that the Clintons have introduced to this campaign, either HRC or Obama could have tapped into the votes of the losing candidate. That possibility is somewhat jeopardized now, but probably not to the point of 5 points or more (which would be a significant defection of democrats to the Republicans in this election season).

Another issue I take with HRC is her alleged experience gap. Folks, she didn't even have a security clearance as first lady. She never attended a single security briefing on any issue. It's been verified that she's either made up out of whole cloth stories supporting her alleged "experience gap" or has seriously over-hyped them (Kosovo). So, I'd really like to hear about her vast experience gap in concrete terms from you HRC diehards.

Finally, re the Pa election. You HRC people talk about the difficulty that HRC had in beating a guy who dramatically outspent her. The better question is how on earth should he have had a prayer given that almost EVERY SINGLE ELECTED OFFICIAL IN THE STATE backed her. ARE YOU FRIGGIN KIDDING ME? It should have been a blowout. Money's important in an election where both candidates are indigenous to the community or state. As we saw with Romney, however, money does not easily buy an election in which so many other of the political dynamics (be it msg or name recognition or organization) prefer the other candidate. You can't buy 50 years of good will in a state. You just can't. Both her father and brother played Nittany Lions football. Her grandpa was from Scranton. And, SHE HAD ALMOST EVERY ELECTED OFFICIAL IN THE STATE backing her candidacy. So, DUH!!!!!, he had to outspend her to avoid a catastrophic blowout. Them's the facts HRC people, thems' the facts.
Thanks.

when an OCCUPATION, sucks the economy dry, demands a lot of a non existent tax base, and contributes very little in_country to the citizens...

and our politicians support it because it's MONEY IN THEIR POCKETS, regardless of what the country needs...

as in Dianne Feinsteins' backing of Mukasey...

WELL FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO WONDERED WHY FEINSTEIN SWITCHED HER VOTE:

this should help,

HopeSpringsATurtle wrote:
.....
I believe the mask of connivance is slipping as demonstrated by Dianne Feinstein's vote for Mukasey.

Her vote is part of the price she's paying to her master the BushCo war-mongering, war services industry which directly benefits her war-profiteering husband

Richard Blum, a 75% partner in PERINI CORPORATION.

PERINI is a construction company that has received nearly a billion dollars in Iraq reconstruction funds.

end of HopeSpringsATurtle quote.

______________________________

SO DIANNE FIENSTEIN IS AN agent of Israel, an "Israel FIRST!!!," non-citizen disguised as a citizen of the United States and a WAR PROFITEER...

the quote is from a poster on the Paul Kane Blog

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/capitol-briefing/2007/11/update_hoyer_impeachment_is_no.html

Pundits rightly point out that a major detriment to superdelegates' endorsement of Hillary Clinton would be the Party's loss of support by African Americans and its bitter abandonment by youthful provisional Democrats who voted for the first time in nomination contests.

Individuals' massive response to the Wednesday night travesty (ABC's ambush, joined by Hillary and McCain) may well set a pattern for reaction to any superdelegate actions deemed unDemocratic in terms of majorities of popular voters, pledged delegates and states won. Bloggers are plentiful, active, articulate and in many cases angry.

Clinton will be the nominee. Obama is already turning into a has been.

our sodomite and thief in chief is going away

very soon...

doesn't mean the 5 justices in the supreme court that could be brought up on charges of misconduct and conflict of interest...

are going away.

It doesn't mean that the contracts awarded to war PROFITEERS

are going away....heck they have 467 BILLIONS OF DOLLARS COMING THEIR WAY...

these same people,
who defrauded the United States CONGRESS into declaring a war on false premises....which in fact

mean that there is no war going on....

are not going away. They still have

Halliburton, the Heritage Foundation, Bechtel, KBR, Blackwater, JINSA, AIPAC, AEI, Carlyle Group, Booze Allen and Hamilton, DynCorp, CACI, the Pentagon, and other companies to run....and they are funded and provide

intelligence for decision making.

in fact the DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE,

Mike McConnel, who has the last say on who gets audited, and what constitutes

intelligence is

ADM Poindexters but tboy....and is in conflict of interest in that relationship with a

6 times convicted FELON, who sold arms and drug trafficked with

the IRANIANS. That conflict of interests would include the purchase by Carlyle Group of a subsidiary of BOOZE ALLEN HAMILTON....

wapo is all over that aren't they AMERICA....

just like they were all over the homophobia thing and hate as a family value...they just stood back and said...

"it's okay," I know them, in Fred Hiatt's case I am sure he meant in the bibical sense...

where's your headlines about that repulsive scammers?

scratching I guess you don't believe that Ark, Okl, Tennessee, and Texas are in the south? All southern states where H.C. won the popular votes and some by very large margins. Personally I don't care much how Gorgia, Alabama and Miss vote or that Sen Obama won (excluding Va which is extremely important)and neither will either campaign in the fall.

the best comment was yesterday on how Clinton would argue a rounding error to persuade everyone she had a double digit win. it appears the only thing double digit about her win is the .4 to the right of the 9 as the margin of victory. See real clear politics for the real margin of victory. Also see, http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/. With 99.44% precincts reporting, it has the margin at 9.2%. The veracity gap shows up once again.

scratching I guess you don't believe that Ark, Okl, Tennessee, and Texas are not in the south? personally I don't care much how Gorgia, Alabama and Miss vote and neither will the campaign in the fall.

I have yet to hear a pro-Clinton argument that makes any logical sense.

He spent $11 million dollars and lost. What else was he going to do? There were no other primaries. He still has $40 million in the bank and Clinton is technically insolvent.

Clinton has won the big states. CA, NY, MA and most likely NJ will all be blue if the Dems run a potato for Pres. But even that is a false argument, these are PRIMARIES. The vote is not indicative of the general election.

It's the popular vote. First, that's not in the rulebook. Second, these are PRIMARIES again. Third, the states with caucuses (which Obama swept by huge margins) aren't counted or are underrepresented because of the format. Fourth Clinton is still trailing. Fifth, then why does Puerto Rico get to count? They don't in the general election. Sixth, you can't count FL and MI because Obama didn't run in those states. She may have won even if he did, but the margin of victory is generally smaller when your opponent shows up for the game.

The reality is that it is all demographics. Learn something from marketing and the Republicans. Segment the population into demographics. Figure out your margin in each segment versus McCain. Do this state by state and see which ones look most promising. They will be different for Clinton and Obama. Then develop strategies to maximize turnout in your favorable segments and to minimize it in your less favorable ones. When you do this for Obama, many of the states won by eight or ten points by Bush don't look like sure things.

note the words UNOFFICIAL at the top of the site; there are close to 20,000 HC votes that are not included.
But I am sure you knew those results were UNOFFICIAL, right?

Since when does the Wellesley and Yale educated $109 million woman become a working-class hero? What in the world does she have in common with the blue-collar Pennsylvania boys who like to hunt and slam back a few? I think race plays a much bigger role in this primary season than the politically-correct pundits are willing to admit.

if you look at the losses that have occured during

republican administrations

to jobs, truth, justice and the AMERICAN WAY...

we have no choice, we have to eliminate them as a team.

they have acted against AMERICA, purposely.

to the point of using DISINFORMATION as a tool....

recognizing the hate that they show to the citizenship by dumbing them down and taking away their right to choose,

eliminating truth / aka real information

and replacing it with:

demagogueury, homophobia, appeal to emotion, supporting morals that they do not demonstrate with their behavior, lies and electoral fraud as a preferred course of action...

and folks: demagogurery is using hate as a family value

something that has been common since NIXON,

who using Karl Rove interfered with a strong George McGovern, using the same kind of lies

40 years ago, being used against Hillary...

and trying to taint her honesty, and agression with the stain

of their blatant lies.

It makes one want to pursue these liars for fraud as a political tool....

certainly the use of the CIA as a tool against the AMERICAN PEOPLE

is a crime, as well as an offense to me personally....and to the citizenship. we do not ask to be controlled by dishonest people seeking to line their pockets

with OUR MONEY. do we.

those people should be brought down low and suffer deep and irreperable harm of a financial and incarcerational sort.

starting with George H.W. Bush and William Casey and Robert M. Gates

. and they know it .

the ferocity of _this_ race

unknow to the bama boy,

is ALL ABOUT THAT...

grow up you little pretend intellectual...prissy poser.

.

I knew someone was going to bring up the point about Senator Obama leaving Pennslyvania and addressing the nation from Indiana in concession to Senator Clinton on her PA primary win. Senator Clinton did that 11 times in February and did not even thank the voters who did vote for her or caucus for her in her 11 straight loses. Now Senator Obama employs the same move, moving on, no sense crying over spilled milk, however you want to phrase it, and you come on here saying he needs to have better advisors. Whatever.

Look Black people. Lets not be like others who are not willing to vote for a black candidate. All my life as a black American who grew up in the south, I always said I do not want to EVER be like some of the racist people I encountered, EVER! I wanted to always be above that. Keep on supporting your candidate whether it be Senators Obama, Clinton or McCain. Lets not boycott the election. Two wrongs don't make a right. One thing Senator Obama has taught us in this election by the way he ran and managed his campaign, is that we do have a say. No matter who wins the Presidency in November, lets make sure we put the heat on our elected officials, don't give them an inch to breathe and force them to address our issues and concerns. That is a message to all ethinicities (races). We, the American citizen, vote these people into these positions, lets make them honor our requests as a people as it should be. If they don't want to do that, then we should be allowed to hold special elections and vote their monkey &*% out of office!!! What say you all?

I give Hillary for coming up with a very clever and compelling case for super delegates to support her, that the Dem nominee needs to win blue collar voters. But... isn't she leaving out some major voting blocs? Doesn't any nominee - Dem or Republican - need to be competitive in the South (like Bill Clinton was and like Obama is)? Maybe N.C. will answer the question of whether Hillary can lay claim to more Southern votes. She didn't do so hot in Virginia and the rest of the South. She didn't do all that well out West either, where Barack cleaned up. But let's see if her luck changes in Montana. I just don't see how you can say I do well with lunchbucket voters - and that's it. Seems like she has more proving herself with a broader array of voters across different regions. But what do I know, I'm just a lowly voter.

leichtman posts (missing the point, yet again):
"Again predictions? 2 weeks out Obama was polling at 51-49 and another poll had him up 51-49. WHO CARES? HE LOST GET OVER IT and stop whining about why you lost or who to blame. Its exactly that kind of whining that is showing weakness by Sen Obama and if you think that losing the Catholic vote by 72-28% is no big deal you really don't understand political science very well."

What I understand is that more people have voted for Obama than have voted for Clinton; what I understand is that the results of those votes have provided Obama more pledged delegates than have been pledged to Clinton - so much so that her current lead in superdelegates still leaves her more than 100 total delegates behind, with the current trend of superdelegate endorsements significantly in favor of Obama; what I understand is that the claims that Obama can't win the "big" states are specious because there have been no races between the parties - just because he didn't beat Clinton in CA or NY or PA doesn't mean he can't beat McCain; current polling is meaningless until it's 1-on-1 between the parties, and anyone claiming to be a political science guru like you should know that.

I also understand that primary exit polls are not guarantees of determining how voters will actually vote in general elections, since the dynamics are completely different, especially after partison feelings have cooled and people take the time to grasp the ramifications of voting for the continuance of a Republican agenda.

Bottom line is that I understand political science quite well; it's your continued denial of reality that escapes me.

Barack Obama has won the nomination. The fact that Clinto continues to "fight" on is simply an ego thing. She (and her husband) can't accept the fact that the inevitability of her getting the nomination (fundraising juggernaut, etc. etc.) long ago has been shown to be a myth. She now needs to go gracefully from the stage and lend her ackowledged strengths to supporting the candidacy of Obama against the Republican nominee.

Hillary's argument that Obama's failure to win the big states should give the superdelegates pause -- and suggests he can't win in November -- is specious at best. California, New York, and New Jersey will vote Democratic regardless of the candidate. Pennsylvania and Ohio might well go with McCain, but the hell with them: if they're unhappy with the war, the economy, jobs forever lost, and still vote for what basically amounts to a continuation of the Bush years, they get what they deserve.

According to the official results, Clinton's margin of victory was 9.2%, not 10%. http://www.electionreturns.state.pa.us/ElectionsInformation.aspx?FunctionID=13&ElectionID=27&OfficeID=1

"Here's the ticket. If the Obama people watn the race over, they should ask Obama to resign. He can't win, he can't get enough delegates to win.
And since he's too soft to continue fighting, he ought to leave for the good of the party" - Ducnks

That may be the dumbest "reasoning" I've ever heard in my life.

Why shouldn't Hillary resign? She can't win either, and she can't enough delegates to win either. Obama has more delegates than she does, so why should he drop out?

Acccording to your logic the one who should be dropping out is Hillary. She only won a state that is tailor-made for her by 9%!?!?! Are you kidding me! LOL!!!!

Barack Obama wins states that are tailor-made for him by 30 points! Is this the pathetic and weak kind of general Election performacne we can expect from Clinton?

As a democrat I'm saddened with the divisive and prolonged nomination battle which will probably go on until the convention. If Clinton finally loses at the convention (which would be long overdue), for the democrats I think it could then get like one of those horror movies where the demon keeps on coming back even after you think it has been eliminated-- with Clinton, I see a strong but unstated message that if she is not the nominee she'll make sure anyone else will be so damaged that winning in November will be impossible.

Therefore, I think the Clinton legacy may be that they gave us 8 years of Bush and at least another 4 years of neocons after that. I think the Clintons are neocons' best friends-- they bring neocons to power-- the country's disgust with Bill's morals provided the margin that crippled Gore, and now Hillary's "win at all cost" losing strategy could well become the devastating sequel for us democrats.

I realize there is an even bigger problem here for democrats-- the party is divided and divisive. I'm amazed at what little Congress has accomplished even with a democratic majority. Bush has taken them to the cleaners. Democrats are divided and impotent. As a progressive, I'm really beginning to wonder how much longer I should stick with this ineffective, diluted, and selfish bunch of losers whose main role in life seems to be to squabble among themselves and then capitulate and get beaten up by the far right.

I'm sick of this and I'd like to start shopping for other options. In November, I may choose to just stay home.

To ohio_guy,

The last time I checked, a win is 50% plus one. Winning by 10 percentage points, by any measure, is not only a win, but a landslide, as they call it.

She also closed the popular vote gap by over 200,000 votes last night. Including the Florida, she's within 200,000 of Obama now in terms of popular vote. Depending on how the remaining states fall, she has a good chance of coming out on top in terms of popular vote, legitimately taking away one of the three justifications put forward by Obama for why superdelegates should vote for him. Another argument that's becoming stronger is why he can't win in big primary states.

You call winning by superdelegates sleazy, but the fact is, neither of them will have enough delegates to be put over the top without superdelegates. The remainder of the race, for both sides, is about convincing the superdelegates to go their way.

I think arguing for the party leaders to try and push her out of the race is probably even more sleazy. What would be the difference between that an a backroom deal? It's pretty much party insiders getting together and making a decision before the convention versus at the convention. How is that any more democratic?

To me, this shows the incredible hypocrisy of the Obama campaign and supporters. He can be negative and say anything and do anything to win, but that's okay, while everything Hillary does is cast as sleazy and negative, regardless of the fact that Obama's campaign employs many of the same tactics. The fact is, both their campaigns, advisors, and surrogates are creatures of politics.

If the situation were reversed, and Obama have several states coming up where the demographics are favorable to him, imagine the howls of protest if anyone dare to suggest that he drop out. Image the howls of protest if anyone discount his landslide victory as a bad loss.

"I won the big states! I won the big states!" That's all you hear from the Dragon Lady. I'm from a small state (New Mexico). Don't we count?

As far as experience goes my governor, Bill Richardson, has orders of magnitude more experience than Obama and Clinton put together. But we really don't want experience. We want fluff and star power.
Experience be damned.

I'm a Republican who supports Obama. But if Hillary gets the nod I will be backing, contributing to and working for McCain.

Thanks for the several good responses to my comments. I respect your points. I recognize that the superdelegates have the legal right to overturn the pledged delegates.

But both Obama and Clinton have negatives that Republicans will exploit in the general election. I think it's a wash.

Overturning the pledged delegates, who were determined by primaries and caucuses that drew record crowds and new people to the party, is a very, very big step. The repercussions will be tremendous.

That power should be invoked only to stop an outside-the-pale looney. Obama is well within the category of people who have been nominated for president by major parties.

Both Clinton and Obama have pros and cons. They're a wash, but he will have the most delegates chosen by a democratic process.

This is necessary to bring forward many important issues...ESPECIALLY those involving the "high crimes and misdemeanors" of the last eight years!

Posted by: Pete Tenney | April 23, 2008 1:28 PM

Because that's not the 'politics of the past', eh?

I see that bonjedi turns out to be the child posting under my name. were those also your childish and racists comments that you were then typing my name in under last week, to try and create a racial backlash? Again this is coming from the campaign that offers Hope and the end of politics as usual. Comforting.

Incidentally POTUS just announced that HC's final advantage in Pa was 10.2% and they made that statement saying it was in direct response to the misinformation being spread on blogs like this one professing otherwise.

Lostballs-
CA is not and will never be in play no matter which Dem comes out of the primary. You're right that all of CA is not liberal and coastal, but the parts that resemble Oklahoma are much smaller in population. Ten million people live in LA county. That's nearly three times the number of people who live in the seven county region making up the San Joaquin Valley.

I think this comment may have been pointed at a number of folks at the Washington Post. "Some people counted me out and said to drop out, but the American people don't quit, and they deserve a president who doesn't quit either," quoting Hillary Clinton at her victory party in Pennsylvania.

I don't like her but I do like a fighter. She is beginning to look like a pantsuit wearing, perfume doused version of Harry Truman. She has grit and determination to spare.

The elitist bobble heads in the Democratic Party and media pundits have been telling her and her supporters to quit for some time. These overexposed know-it-alls will continue find venues and opportunities to do so. As a matter of fact the chorus will get louder and more venomous if she keeps winning that actually may begin to help her. Incidentally on the Republican side they were doing the very same thing to John McCain. He also hit a ruff spot and was out of money in the primaries. There were many calls for him to quit published in this paper. McCain like Clinton is a fighter.

There always is an abundance of irony. This year it looks like the Democrats have so reformed their party rules that ordinary primary voters can no longer decide the outcome. Proportional allocation of delegates have now left the choice of who will be the nominee to the old smoke filled backroom professionals, the super delegates. If Obama and Clinton were running in winner take all primaries and caucuses like the Republican party does Clinton would already have won and she would have had the delegates needed to be the nominee even before the vote in Pennsylvania.

Now it looks like neither will have enough pledged delegates to capture the nomination outright going into the convention unless someone quits, seriously blunders or falters. So the super delegates "professionals" will have to consider this problem. With the exception of Illinois, Clinton has won the all big states the Democrats absolutely have to win to get into the Whitehouse.

Some super delegates here in Florida likely will be considering that Clinton has a better than even chance to win in Florida in November. Obama has no chance. For those of you who think Florida is unimportant here is a news tip. The electoral equation is changing rapidly in Florida. Florida will be in play for the Democrats if Clinton gets the nomination.

Even though I like Obama. He deserves great credit as he has motivated Black and socially liberal young voters to come out in record numbers. Those are not enough to win in November if other groups are not motivated that is certainly true in Florida. In Florida democrats have their traditional well organized bastion of pantsuit clad condo commandos in South Florida. They also now have the St. Petersburg to Daytona Beach swath of newly arrived Hispanic and single white women service workers who are breaking decisively their way. That group is so large that it is now diluting the edge the Republicans have had in South West Florida. That is a huge factor and getting bigger. These voters likely will be tipping the election in Clinton's favor in November if she is the nominee. Obama's problem is he has failed to inspire or motivate either of these very large Democratic voter blocks here locally or across the country, Clinton has. For a shot at winning the Whitehouse and for purely local reasons any uncommitted Florida super delegates should be considering these factors.

Obama spent more money than Hillary for the simple reason that he HAD more money to spend, and that is because more people believe that Obama is the better deal. Success in fund raising is a form of approval: perhaps a very sincere form: the donor is willing to put his money where his mouth is.
Hillary certainly cannot match him there. Time for her to pack up instead of trotting out tripe like "The American people do not like a quitter". If I am not mistaken, Hitler too did not quit until he was shown the door.

Obama has wonderful judgement, from using hard drugs and stealing cars as a youth, to using legal tricks to force other candidates off the balot to get elected, to letting people freeze in his slums, to telling people that they believe in God because they're bitter, to deciding to ru for the Whitehouse after just one year in the Senate. The list goes on and on.

But Obama has the good jugement to read speeches from teleprompters in a evangelical style, and to give Hillary the finger while mimicing rap music videos.

Yeah, he has great judgement..

Sure.

Just the kind of guy America wants for the most powerful job in the world.

Great Judgement. Yeah, sure.

Give us a break. You're voting for him because he's young and Black.

That's not enough of a reason for the rest of America.

Race, sex, and age should not be the criteria.

The ability to do the job should be.

We're not hiring a male model, or an actor to read speeches.

This isn't TV.

Its real life.

Obama is unelectable.

Fortunately, McCain's not all that bad, so if Obama's shoved down our throats and made the Democratic candidate, we'll be glad to vote for McCain.

Obama's unqualified. We don't trust his judgement and he doesn't have enough experience or knowledge of the issues.

We'll vote for McCain instead, and, frankly, we won't even mind when he cuts social programs.

Your tactics have made us lose all the sympathy we had for you.

Say hello to President McCain.

Thank God for the two party system.

First...anyone who thinks this was a negative campaign doesn't know much about politics.

I used to want this over because Hillary can't win except by getting large numbers of Super Delegates to commit. Now, I've come to like this protracted waltz for two reasons: I toughens up BOTH candidates, especially Obama, for the inevitable Rovian Republican slime machine. I see that North Carolina is already gearing up for a typical racial Jesse Helms type of bile...but THIS time, it will backfire badly on the GOP and Rove who has been cheerfully wrong every time, just as Dick Cheney has been sneeringly wrong every time...and George Bush who has been living in lala land in total denial...as usual!

The second reason is that it keeps McCai