I am pretty new to the area (I moved here for school in Sept.) but I would say that if you make the trip to West Philly, Larry's on 54th St. (across from St. Joe's) makes some good cheesesteaks. Also, definitely provolone, not Cheez Whiz. Provolone is sort of the unofficial cheese around here for anything.

Geno's is okay, Pat's somewhat better, but Jim's is the best. It's a uniquely Philadelphia experience, like a Harry Kalas home run call.

Do not go to Pat's nor Geno's! Stay far away, unless you like grizzly meat.

John's Roast Pork or Tony Luke's are much better options. Heck, any old sandwich shop that serves a cheesesteak is better than Pat's or Geno's.

I like Broder, but was shocked at the lack of any follow-up to the voter who changed registration to democrat to vote in the primary. Here are the questions a curious journalist would ask:

1) Will you vote for Hillary or Obama?

If answer is Hillary --

2) Are you part of Operation Chaos?

3) Do you plan to change your registration back to republican for the general election?

Without those follow-up questions, the voter's comments illuminated absolutely nothing, so why did they merit inclusion in the video?

drindl, Truth be told, I was laughing this morning while listening to the radio, and I heard that song...it reminded me of you.

Now that Springsteen has endorsed Obama, maybe Barack will use Badlands for his campaign song....

... Baby, I got my facts
learned real good, right now -
Poor man wanna be rich,
rich man wanna be king
And a king ain't satisfied
till he rules everything
I wanna go out tonight,
I wanna find out what I got

F PATS F GINO"S GO TO JIMS ON SOUTH STREET OR TONY LUC"S

I perfer jims but remember no swiss or munster cheese get it with wiz onions optional

Gino's and Pat's are for tourists dude dont be lame

'But, I thought it was a sign of progress when you said this the other day:'

you've really gone over the edge, proud. you're completely nuts. you really ought to stay away from the pills.

Pats! Geno's is waaay to xenophobic. And if you can't get all the way down to South Philly, go to Jim's Steaks on South Street... also very good.

pat's steak is chunky and big. geno's is paper thin and magical. but tony luke's is flavorful. or skip em all, head up to roxborough and go to d'alessandro's. henry ave and walnut lane. i think the 61 bus takes you past.

drindl, Why not sign your posts? We all know it's you writing your daily rant. But, I thought it was a sign of progress when you said this the other day:

"Do you have the time, to listen to me whine about nothing and everything all at once? I am one of those melodramatic fools. Nueuotic to the bone, no doubt about it. Sometimes I give myself the creeps. Sometimes my mind plays tricks on me. It all keeps adding up...I think I'm cracking up. Am I just paranoid?"

claudialong.com

Chris,
As a longtime fan of your blog and media appearances, I IMPLORE you - please do not go to Geno's.
Pat's is unquestionably the most legendary cheesesteak place in Philly. Having spent the first 22 years of my life in Pennsylvania, I can promise you this is the better option. Geno's is also infamous for its intolerance to immigrants and strictly enforces an English only ordering policy. Also, when you go over there you are immediately overcome by a disgusting tribute to the victims of 9/11 and all of that other Republican schmaltzy stuff.
Jim's is good. If you're wandering down South Street, it's a good bet. But definitely head to Pat's over Geno's, dude. Trust me!
-Jon

"Sore Loserman as Zell Miller? Loserman doesn't have the southern-style, red-faced, populist histrionics in his repertoire."

Remakes never live up to the original.

"bsimon? Sore Loserman as Zell Miller? Loserman doesn't have the southern-style, red-faced, populist histrionics in his repertoire. He's just a little dweeb."

Rumour has it that when Lieberman speaks, they're going to have a big screen behind with Elmer Fudd lip-synching Lieberman's speech.

Not saying I know this for sure -- just a romour at this point.

"Does anyone know if Ellison endorsed BHO too? bsimon?"

Rep Ellison has endorsed Sen Obama.

bsimon? Sore Loserman as Zell Miller? Loserman doesn't have the southern-style, red-faced, populist histrionics in his repertoire. He's just a little dweeb.

BTW, I just saw that Rep. Andre Carson (D-IN) just endorsed BHO. Can't wait for the wing-nuts to rant about BHO and his legions of Muslim supporters.

Does anyone know if Ellison endorsed BHO too? bsimon?

In other news, word is out that Joe Lieberman is auditioning for the Zell Miller role at this year's GOP convention.

If they can't answer the questions directly, I may have to resort to my new drinking game. A shot of Crown Royal every time they say "Bush".

Posted by: proudtobeGOP | April 16, 2008 11:54 AM

proud:
Hope you don't have anything important to do tomorrow ...

"If any high crimes were committed by this administration, SHOULDN'T they be investigated?"

No. And you are unpatriotic and unamerican to even write that. In fact, you are practically a traitor for having even thought it.

I feel dirty even having just cut 'n' pasting your comment.

'I may have to resort to my new drinking game. A shot of Crown Royal every time they say "Bush".

Posted by: proudtobeGOP | April 16, 2008 11:54 AM

THAT explains a lot !'

..sure does. i have no doubt these deadenders are either drunk or on drugs, just like bushie.

Rick's Steaks at the Reading Terminal Market is awfully good. But it's gotta be whiz wit.

Jim's on South or Tony Luke's - both have WAY better food than Pat's or Geno's, and for an "authentic" Philly experience getting yelled at by the counter people at Tony Luke's or sent to the back of the line will fit that bill. And if you have any namby-pampy vegetarians with you, the Uncle Mike (with provolone) at Tony Luke's is an amazing sandwich that you can order at a cheesesteak joint without getting abused.

Appearing on Hardball's "College Tour" today, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) was asked about the recent offensive led by the Iraqi government in Basra. Admitting that the performance of Iraqi soldiers was poor (at least 1,000 deserted), McCain claimed the rest of the forces did "pretty good":

In full disclosure and frankness and candor and straight talk, the Maliki movement to Basra had a very big downside to it. As you know, we saw a thousand police and military desert their posts. But the rest of the military did a pretty good job, did a pretty good job. We did secure the port of Basra. Maybe I'm digging for the pony here.

Reuters reported that Maliki's "crackdown on militias in the southern oil port of Basra appears to have backfired, exposing the weakness of his army and strengthening his political foes ahead of elections."

McCain has been "digging for the pony" in Iraq for a quite a while. When asked in April 2007 by conservative bloggers about efforts by Sadr to oppose the surge, McCain predicted Sadr wo

And violence has surged all over iraq again. So much for progress...

blarg writes
"Hillary has Elton John. Obama has Bruce Springsteen. I know which side I'm on."

Who's Lawrence Welk backing?

I may have to resort to my new drinking game. A shot of Crown Royal every time they say "Bush".

Posted by: proudtobeGOP | April 16, 2008 11:54 AM

THAT explains a lot !

"Yeah ... it's a bunch of bullcrap."

HuffPo leads with this headline:

"Obama Would "Immediately Review" Potential Of Crimes In Bush White House"

Bridging the partisan divide , eh? Senator Obama?

But I guess you're right, bondo. HuffPo has always been full of crap, we shouldn't expect any different.

"NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Oil prices surged to a record high Wednesday, spiking to near $115 a barrel, after a government report showed an unexpected crude supply drop."

Cheesesteak goodness in this order:
1) Jim's
2) Mama's
3) Pat's

Pat's, however, is the most dramatically Philadelphian, if that's what you're after. Plus, outdoor seating and we're having unusually nice weather. You reporters better not be flooding the Terminal Market when I get there for lunch, I'm hungry!

If any high crimes were committed by this administration, SHOULDN'T they be investigated? I thought Repiblicans believed so terribly strongly about being a 'nation of laws'... at least, so they claimed during the Clinton administration--but I guess that was just another rightwing lie.

"BAGHDAD -- Bombers struck four cities across Iraq on Tuesday, killing at least 54 people and providing a stark reminder that American and Iraqi forces are still fighting a war on two fronts.

Posted at 10:17 AM:

While the militaries battle Shiite militias in the south and in Baghdad, the two deadliest attacks on Tuesday occurred in cities to the north and west that American forces say they had largely taken back from Sunni insurgents."

So much for the illusion of 'The Surge" and "Progress"

But the SURGE IS WORKING ! ! !

Look OIL was only $25 a barrel before the Invasion of Iraq. Now, it is over $100. That's Progress!

If McCain gets is -- and keeps his word to Stay in Iraq indefinitely -- watch the price of Oil SURGE to $125, $135... can you say, $150 a barrel ? ! ? !

A couple of years ago, I liquidated my 401K and bought quite a lot of oil stocks.

So, I say, GO McCain -- SURGE ON ! ! ! !

Hillary has Elton John. Obama has Bruce Springsteen. I know which side I'm on.

*dumba$$ warning*

"Anybody have any thoughts on the report that an Obama administration would immediately open a war-crimes inquiry if elected?"

Yeah ... it's a bunch of bullcrap.

proud, are you jumping the gun a bit? You say 'immediately open', but quote an article that says 'open to the possibility'. That's something of a disconnect.

Just heard Sen. Spector at a news conference and he sounds really weak.
HC, B.O. supporters as well as proud should all wish him a speedy recovery today and sucessful chemotherapy. He truly did not sound well.

Here's a pretty comprehensive rundown of your cheesesteak options. Pat's and Geno's are not among the best options.

http://www.gophila.com/C/Dining_and_Nightlife/223/Dining,_Restaurants_and_Food_in_Philadelphia/221/Authentic_Philly_Cheesesteaks/361.html

*threadjack warning*

Anybody have any thoughts on the report that an Obama administration would immediately open a war-crimes inquiry if elected?

"The bottom line is that: Obama sent a clear signal that he is at the least open to the possibility of investigating potential high crimes in the Bush White House. To many, the information that waterboarding -- which the United States has considered torture and a violation of law in the past -- was openly planned out in the seat of American government is evidence enough to at least start asking some tough questions in January 2009."

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/attytood/Barack_on_torture.html

CC, I don't know from cheesesteak, so I'll only offer this bit of advice for your rhinovirus....drink more water!

I hope the questions will be hard-hitting tonight and that actual answers will be required from the candidates, instead of tedious speechifying.

If they can't answer the questions directly, I may have to resort to my new drinking game. A shot of Crown Royal every time they say "Bush".

Chris,
Place called Omega Pizza has the best cheesesteak in Philly bar none.

If Broder is the dean of journalists, CC is the Dean Cain of journalists - a vapid pretty boy who once showed promise, but is now a has-been.

Bruce Springsteen just endorsed Obama.

How many of you think it would make a difference if he came to Philly tomorrow 4/17, just him and his guitar, and make an appearance in front of Independence Hall?

He's got a show on 4/18 in Lauderdale, but I'm sure there's a private jet at his disposal for such a trip.

As I recall, he endorsed John Kerry last time around...

Also, think Hillary will quit using "The Rising" as a stump song? Will Bruce insist that she desist?

Avoid the touristy Pat or Geno's, Jim's is okay only if you go to the original location out in West Philly. But if you want the best, John's Roast Pork:

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/breaking/news_breaking/20080404_After_45_cheesesteaks__the_best_were____.html

Speaking of Philly, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette endorsed Obama today:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08107/873625-192.stm

Whoops, that has nothing at all to do with Philly. My mistake...

Chris, stay away from Pats or Geno's question. Its like Clinton or Obama.. It all depends on who you like or who you talk to....

http://www.gopcatholics.blogspot.com

Who do you predict will win the Pennsylvania Democratic Presidential Primary?

http://www.youpolls.com/details.asp?pid=2127

.

No matter where you go for a cheesesteak, if it doesn't have whiz then it isn't the real deal.

Anyone who eats cheesecake is elitist.............
http://thefiresidepost.com/2008/04/16/esprit-de-corps-and-elitism/

"David Broder -- the dean of political reporters --"

Please, Chris, don't give Broder a Cronkite complex, the age of meaningful leadership among poundits has come and gone, and may it rest in peace. "The Lie" is now the truth, because of these "deans."

The combined influence of the opinions of your "average" bloggers right here on blogs like yours, far and away outweigh the suspect opinions of the old poundit class you put Broder at the head of.

Broder's taken what could have been a powerful soapbox for change, to promote his own brand of inside-the-beltway personal prejudices, he is one of the examples of our mutual disappointments, someone who could have helped expose the lies and the liars, but instead he has become their grand-protector.

So if some of us don't quite agree with your praise, don't be surprised. Like Robert Novak, George Will and many others held in some sort of esteem above their Fox News clones, Broder's ideological prejudices far outweigh his journalistic obligations, or he would not be so quick to obfuscate issues and spin the truth into the lie, for the benefit of the most-guilty among us.

Sorry if I seem a bit intolerant here, but Broder's bent the truth so many times to promote his insider mentallity, I just cringe when I hear him called "The Dean," he may be your role model, but for some of us, he's one of the best examples of why "the lie" lives on.

Far from actually being a "maverick," the one word that would accurately describe his time in public life is: "a**hole." That McCain was able to successfully make himself be thought of as a "maverick" says as much about the press as it does about McCain. That is, one cannot understand how McCain did this without also understanding the delicate psychology of the Washington D. C. press corps.

Most Washington journalists have a deeply internalized sense of self-loathing. They see themselves as cowardly, flaccid, ineffectual, impotent wimps. In this, they're not entirely wrong. They have always secretly admired the as*hole jocks who used to push them around in high school. The journalists would console themselves with the soothing affirmation that the as*holes were not as smart as they were. They were right, of course, but still, deep down the journalists secretly admired the as*holes.

Along comes John McCain -- an as*hole, but an as*hole who is nice to them, an as*hole who comes to back of the plane and jokes around with them and doesn't make them feel unmanly. Why, sometimes, it seemed as if McCain really liked them. A few years of this, and suddenly McCain's not a temperamental, dangerously unstable as*hole, he's a "maverick."

But the self-esteem issues of the weakling press notwithstanding, McCain is, in fact, an as*hole. An as*hole who wants to be the President of the United States. As an as*hole senator, he the sort of guy who says things like:

• "Only an as*hole would put a budget together like this!" (to New Mexico Republican Pete Dominici)

• "I'm calling you a f*cking jerk!" (to Iowa Republican Senator Chuck Grassley)

• "F*ck you. I know more about this than anybody in the room." (To Texas Republican Senator John Cornyn)

This is why Senator Dominici said in 2000 that "I decided I didn't want this guy anywhere near a trigger." It is presumed by this he meant the nuclear trigger.

McCain is also the sort of guy who would tell the following joke:
Q: Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?
A: Her father is Janet Reno.

This is the sort of humor as*holes find funny. When he told the joke, Chelsea Clinton was seventeen years old.

In speaking about whether he had ever witnessed McCain's notorious temper problem, former Pennsylvania Republican Senator Rick Santorum said, "I don't know anybody in the Senate who hasn't. Everybody has their McCain story."

And if America elects this temperamental, dangerously unstable, angry old as*hole, America will have its own McCain story too.

http://dickipedia.org/dick.php?title=John_McCain#An_.22as*hole.22_senator

West Philly hit it on the head. Both Pat's and Geno's are awful. I lived in Philly for nearly 20 years and a significant amount of that time was in South Philly a few blocks from Geno's. Jim's on South Street is pretty good but if you're looking for quick, meaty eats go to Tommy Gunns for a BBQ pork sandwich. Tony Luke's (Front and Oregon) makes a great pork sandwich with broccoli rabe and sharp provalone too.

For a street-style steak, Jims, hands down. Tony Lukes, a bit more upscale. Pat's and Geno's are for amateurs and they handle the food then handle your money.

And those Phulluffians who take their steak with Cheez Whiz and tell you that's authentic: Culturally maybe, but gastronomically, it's a pox on the city. Provolone is the way to go. But NOT swiss, like John Kerry asked for.

Oh, and the ketchup must be Heinz.

Do go to Pat's, tho, and talk to Joey Vento. Whatever one's political beliefs, fact is that Vento reflects a certain street philosophy that is ingrained in large sections of the Phila. DMA. He claims not to be a racist but listen for the dog whistles.

Are you working on a blog about the Rubicon Factor, mentioned by Ryan yesterday? Hillary attacking Kerry and Gore on the eve of the Pa. primary? And what about Gore? With Hillary's unfavorables at 54 percent, doesn't he become more viable, should Obama suffer a slow leak from Bitter-gate, Wright-gate, etc.

One more point: A former investment broker has revived the afternoon Bulletin newspaper. It's hard-right leaning and vituperatively anti-Obama in a city that usually leans center-left. Herb Denenberg, the former PA insurance commissioner and later a TV consumer reporter, leads the anti-Obama crusade. Herb's even tagged Obama as a Marxist, I guess because in his book Obama mentioned that he studied Marx at Columbia University (does studying comparative ideological systems brand someone as an adherent? I guess it does in Herb's world).

Anyhow, you should seek him out, again, to get a better view of some of the undercurrents that you won't pick up in the Constitution Center's lobby, especially talking to your fellow pundits and cable lords.

DUMB PEOPLE PREFER CHELSEA'S LYING MAMA;
THE SMART VOTER WILL ALWAYS CHOOSE OBAMA!

CHRIS DON'T LISTEN TO THESE TOURISTS AND THEIR IDEAS OF WHERE TO GET A STEAK SANDO OR A SLICE! THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT! GO TO BAFANGOO ON SOUTH ATLANTIC! FUHGEDABOUTIT!

you must go to tony luke's in south philly. it is far superior to pat's and gino's. and like everyone said, gino's owner IS racist.

Agree with WestPhilly... don't go to Gino's!

Vento is an avowed racist and his food is cr*p anyway.

"BAGHDAD -- Bombers struck four cities across Iraq on Tuesday, killing at least 54 people and providing a stark reminder that American and Iraqi forces are still fighting a war on two fronts.

While the militaries battle Shiite militias in the south and in Baghdad, the two deadliest attacks on Tuesday occurred in cities to the north and west that American forces say they had largely taken back from Sunni insurgents."

So much for the illusion of 'The Surge" and "Progress"

John's roast pork or Tony Lukes

Chris- as a Philadelphian and an avid reader of your blog, I implore you to not go to Gino's! It's run by a guy named Joey Vento who, among other things, posts a sign outside his shop that says you must order in English. And in an immigrant neighborhood, nonetheless! This caused a big uproar nationally last year when the sign was posted (at the same time hundreds of thousands of people were demonstrating for comprehensive immigration reform and rights for immigrants). None of the Democrats will go to his shop because it is perceived by so many as xenophobic. If you must go to one of the two, please go to Pat's. But really, better cheesesteaks can be found just about anywhere else.

This made me laugh out loud. From NRO:

President's Global Warming Surrender: "It will be very bad" [Iain Murray]
We're hearing some very bad things about the President's likely unconditional surrender on global warming today. One senior source suggested that the last line of sound defense had been breached and that "It will be very bad." I'd imagine he will request, against all evidence from Europe that this does anything but make consumers poorer and utilities richer, a cap and trade regime for energy utilities.

I cannot emphasize too much how idiotic this is. At a time when the poor of the country and the world are feeling the twin crunches of credit being withdrawn and food and energy prices rising, jacking up energy prices farther will just add insult to injury. Those who voted for Bush in the mistaken belief they wouldn't get Gore's policies will have been betrayed. The political center on energy and environment will be jerked massively to the left. Some acheivement.

Mr. Bush, if you think this will secure your legacy, you are right. Your legacy will be just one word: Recession.

People need to get very, very angry about this. I know I am."

Feeling 'bitter', are we? Idiots.

Tony Lukes also makes a delicious cheesesteak.

If you happen to stumble across the Caps there in Philly, tell them to play smarter, tougher D and be more aggressive on the forecheck. Pretty hockey isn't playoff hockey.

Chris asks
" The Fix is looking to answer a VERY important question: Geno's or Pat's? Let us know where we need to get our cheesesteak during our venture up to Philly."

Waitaminute. If I'm reading you correctly, you're only planning on ONE cheesesteak during your Philly visit. Surely that's a typo?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/15/AR2008041502664.html?hpid=opinionsbox1
appears in the same newspaper whose poll says that Clinton has lost credibility - probably from running negative.

Here's how rightwing the WaPo is. They publish a memo by a so-called Democrat, who happens to be a contributor to FOX news -- laughable. The guy has no credibility to begin with. And then he says this -- that Hillary should go negative! GO negative? There must be something in the water in DC! Worst advice humanly possible. How much more negative can she get? Already former supporters hate her... of course he's partners with Mark Penn, so that explains it. These people are soulmates of Karl Rove. This is why Hillary's numbers keep going down. She's mae the mistake of listening to the so-called 'Democratic' consultants in DC -- the biggest bunch of losers in America. This is why the voters will reject her.

" Schoen is a well-respected pollster in the Democratic Party, business partners of Hillary Clinton pollster Mark Penn. Doug Schoen is also a paid contributor to Fox News, a role he didn't disclose in this interview.

If you want to know why the Democratic Party is broken, it's because of broken, corrupt men like Doug Schoen. They will do anything to get ahead, to make a buck, or get on TV. Anything. And they are the ones in the rooms giving advice to Democratic leaders on how to make decisions."

I will still vote Dem because I am terrified of John McCain and his neocon policies. But to say I am disappointed in Hillary is a major understatement.

Pat's is the place to be; Geno's and Jim's just provide an inferior product.

Pat's is the place to be; Geno's and Jim's just provide an inferior product.

Jim's is the best. Pat's is better than Geno partially because of the structure of their sandwhiches. Geno's layers the ingredients, cheese on top of meat, etc... Many places outside of Philly do it this way. Pat's just kinda mashes it all up together creating a delightful and cheesy concoction. And you gotta go with whiz, even if it is whiz+provolone, if you don't get whiz, you might as well have ordered it in DC...

Mama's Pizzeria on Belmont Ave. Hands down, the best cheesesteaks.

Definitely go to Jim's Steaks on South Street. You haven't had a cheesesteak until you've been to Jim's.

John's Roast Pork, 14 East Snyder Avenue, South Philadelphia, 215-463-1951 is the current #1 cheesesteak place in Philly (comparable to Ben's Chili Bowl in DC). Geno's and Pat's are among the worst cheesesteak places to be found in the City of Brothery Love (comparable to those tepid hot dogs found on most DC street vendors). If it's convenient for tourists, beware of quality.

Jim's on South Street, Chris. But if you have to choose between the two kings Pat's is your place for whiz wit, and Geno's for whiz witout.

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