The Clintons are poison to the Democrats and always have been. When Bill was president the Dems lost both houses of congress to the Republicans...the are a drag on the any democrat running for the Senate or House.

True the Clintons have their supporters but they have a even larger number of haters and people that really just despise them in general.
Hillary is the defintion of devisive...even over half the Democrats don't seem to want her(lately she has actually done a good job of making some of them hate her). Now add almost all the Republicans and a good share of Independants and there is no way she can beat McCain if he runs even a halfway effective campaign.Not only will she lose but she will drag along with her to defeat a lot of Democrats in close congressional.The only way us Dems should take a sip of that poison is if we want to commit suicide.

Obama supporters like to point out that he has won more states ... they even post his winning percentages versus Hillary's percentages. But they fail to recognize that the percentages are only those of the people who voted, NOT of the number of voters in that state who are likely to cast votes in November. When you look at those numbers, the states Obama won will, for the most part, go Red in the general election, not blue.

See what opposition can do for you, if misused and abused. In life, lessons are learnt and everything is for a reason. You do good, you reap good. You do bad, you reap bad. The choice is yours. Make a wise choice in all that you do, because it will not only affect you. E=mc2. With Hillary being a graduate from such a prominent university, I wonder what she learnt. Or did she alter her educational course to accommodate that which she knew not to do. I am appalled and hurt to know that she wants to stay in and further destruct her future chance to gain support from those have witnessed such a mess already, Hillary needs to change her light bulb, it's a bit dim as is her chance at winning this election. Hillary is to oppositional to bring unity. And she is too blind to recognize the signs of time. America is a diverse world. Globalization at a high, a large melting pot have manifested, times have changed from some 20 or 30 years, her era is just about extinct, she's out of touch, so what's left. A twisted Hillary stuck on yesterday's mentality trying to lift this heavy burden into the future of tommorrow, she don't have the strength.

Clinton: Not Going Anywhere Anytime Soon

Sad to say, Hillary can't afford to go anywhere anytime soon. She is up to her neck in debt. She has loaned her campaign millions, now she has the audacity to look to those whom she have deceive to deceive more. She is lying in her ability to win so that the American people can pick up her tab. The same way that you go into a situation is the way you normally comes out of a situation. On that note, she went in lying and now she is lying on the way out. What a heck of a campaign. I am appalled. How can she help anyone, when she can't even help herself. Had she ended her campaign earlier, it would have been a lot better for her, now the American public have to be played by her to help foot her bill. How stupid she has made the American people look, it's apparent that she has no remorse, because she refuse to step down and end this foolishness. Wow, how amazing. God bless America.

From what I know is that Nick Colvin is still Obama's aid and rumors around D.C. are that they are having an affair together...

I heard about Colvin in D.C. that they ere more than just friends...

We just had eight years of a president who was a rookie. I'm not voting for this one either.

The rest of you are grounded.

I hope she stays in it till the convention. It's soooo entertaining to watch the Obamautomatons foam at the mouth.

The audacity of staying in the race! Shocking! Monster! Disgusting! Racist! Appealing to idiots and morons! Cut-throat! Compulsively mendacious! Delusional! This is not Camelot! Morally inferior! Etcetera....

For supporters of a candidate who excoriates "the old politics" they sure are moved to practice the "politics of personal destruction".

To me, that viciously expressed lack of respect for the former first lady of a successful Democratic administration is one of the main factors that will motivate HRC supporters to stay home on election day.

Eventually a lot of these folks will grow up when they get into their thirties, and/or when they see the fruits of their labors result in four more years of McBush.

If you've read this far, you're an idiot...

actually you can read about the DNC being required to seat the FL and MI delegates on the web (link of the Florida Democratic Party web site). Experts have said that a judge not forcing the DNC to seat them would be "inconceivable".

Posted by: | May 14, 2008 2:37 AM
__________________________________________

That's one way to rally Democrats: sue to win an election.

Hey, Clinton has once again demonstrated that the less education folks have, the more they support her. With a large majority of votes from old lily-white West Virginia hillbillies who dropped out of grade school more than half a century ago, she can forge ahead and win the general election!

Yeah, right.

Hillary's WV victory only indicates she is strong with white people who fear diversity through a lack of exposure and education. It does not mean she can win the White House and Obama can't. It is not a mandate to continue. Hillary wins with ignorant white people. Woot. If she wants to stay in the race to reduce her debt, so be it. It's time for everyone else to move on.

Here's something everybody needs to remember:

Clinton will stay in this until after the last primary. After that, there will be no mathematical possibility for her to attain the nomination. Her campaign has said this. Wins in WV and Kentucky put her in a better position to raise the money to repay her debts. Everybody knows (including the Clinton campaign) that these wins are numerically meaningless, from a delegate perspective and from every other possible metric, including the popular vote.

When somebody like James Carville says that Obama is the presumptive nominee, it is *over*. When Ed Rendell starts talking about how he thinks Obama should pick Hillary for the VP slot, it is *over*. When Hillary stops the negative attacks on Obama, as she has for the most part, it is *over*.

Yeah, we'll wait until the bitter end. And Obama will win the nomination. And he will win the general election, especially if Hillary's supporters can actually try for a moment to find out why so many of us support Obama.

And to those who ask why white people would vote for Obama, I submit to you the results from states such as Iowa, Colorado, Washington, the upcoming primary in Oregon, and many others -- he has substantial support among white voters. Just not racist white voters.

Be ever vigilant posts:
"US CENSUS (2000)

Total population - 281,421,906 100%
White 77.1% NOT 83%
Black 12.9%
Amer. Indian 1.4%
Asian 4.2%
Hawaiian or Pacific Islander 6.6%"

Funny, I thought we had an immigration problem based on Hispanics. Yet your "numbers" indicate that there are no Hispanics in the US. I imagine that would come as a great surprise to the millions of them that have responded to the Census.

Actually, when you went to the US Census site, you forgot to look at the second table which reflected Hispanics vs. the rest of the population:

HISPANIC OR LATINO
Total population - 281,421,906 100.0
Hispanic or Latino - 35,305,818 12.5
Not Hispanic or - 246,116,088 87.5

According to the Census Bureau site, "The federal government considers race and
Hispanic origin to be two separate and
distinct concepts." So, Hispanics are generally considered under the White category in general, but are a separate subset when compared to the whole. The reality is that they don't think, act or consider themselves as White, for the most part, so lumping them in with Whites when making categorical statements leads to major inaccuracies when projecting group considerations.

Of course, the bottom line is that regardless of how you slice and dice the numbers, Obama could not have the most popular votes without having had a large number of non-AA votes.

Dems always lose NH. It's a weird state like that.

And for those of you saying you will vote for McCain if Clinton isn't the nominee.
Just add her 16.9 million to McCains 7 million and as you can see gives you a total of not quite 24 million votes.

Doesn't bode well for Clinton or McCain now does it.

16.9 million out of 209 million gives her less than 1/12th of the entire country that is over 18 and able to vote. Estimates say about only half 104.5 million are registered to vote so that leaves her less than 1/6 of the entire voter base, which leaves the other 5/6 either voting for McCain or Obama which leaves 87,083,333 voting in the General election who didn't vote for Clinton.
McCain has roughly 1/12 of those, maybe less, and he loses more every time he opens his mouth. That leaves roughly 80 million people voting for Obama in november. Can you say "landslide".

Of course the U.S. census means nothing. What is important is the percentages of voters within each state. The presidential candidate MUST win the swing states.

Well, if Clinton is "clinically cuckoo," then I guess 16.9 million or so voters are as well.

icgirl,

You want might want to read on in Matthew, also read Daniel and Revelations. Before you make the decision to vote for Obama.

OOOOOOPs typo on my part

Hawaiian or Pacific Islander 0.3%
Other 6.6%

icgirl wrote:

"The evangelicals are starting to look at Obama."

Well, as a Christian minister myself, I hope evangelicals take a really GOOD look!

Which of the three possible candidates has consistently demonstrated that they live by the following:

"Blessed are the peacemakers." Matthew 5:9

For they shall be called children of God...

(And, btw, Jesus didn't qualify that statement by requiring the peacemaker to have a specific religious affiliation, either.)

Bill B wrote:
"It's showtime and Barry Hussein Obama ain't ready for primetime."

Good grief, is it possible that you're this adolescent? I suppose you must think that Bush is real man's man, too.

Go read a novel or eat a strawberry, and please stop behaving like the stereotype of a paranoid, xenophobic American so fearful of the world around them that they've frozen their own moral compass.

Believe it or not, you are more capable of getting along with others than you might know.

US CENSUS

White 77.1% NOT 83%
Black 12.9%
Amer. Indian 1.4%
Asian 4.2%
Hawaiian or Pacific Islander 6.6%

Seeing the numbers in black and white might help people understand that he could not have won by the % he has won or lost by the % he lost strickly on a division of black and white Clinton and McCain are not getting all of the "white" votes and Obama is not getting only the "black" votes.

Also judging by the fact that McCain lost WV to 2 candidates not even in the running, he only got 1% of the WV votes.

This is not about race, as hard as everone is trying to make it that way.

Let this race run its course and then stand behind your party based on your "beliefs".

You poor pitiful Obamabots.

You really have no clue what's in store for you come November.

There's now ay in hell Obama can win.

Obama will lose OH, FL, adn NH.

When Mccain picks Romney as his VP the GOP will pick up Michigan as well.

The Dem primaries are just about over.

It's showtime and Barry Hussein Obama ain't ready for primetime.

One thing I haven't seen anyone else mention here is if Sen. Obama can beat the Clinton team, then he's the strongest candidate the Democrats have. Sen. Clinton had everything - money, fame, status - locked up; she had EVERYONE - big donors, party insiders, even the media convinced - that she was "inevitable." And all that's just gone away....

The real question every Democrat should be asking themselves is: Did Barack Obama defeat Hillary Clinton? Or did she SELF-destruct?

Either way, she'd lose the general election (given the FACT that past performance is the best predictor of future accomplishment).

Look out everyone. The evangelicals are starting to look at Obama. He has a big new mailing out in Kentucky about his faith. And they are already paying attention. As one Christian blogger says, "He has a story to tell about how Jesus came into his life, and we can expect to hear a lot more about it in Kentucky and in the fall." Don't forget Hillary's high negatives. When Obama really starts to talk about who he is, McCain will evaporate. Obama has more to offer more Americans than any other candidate. Totally nice guy, lovely family, really smart but with a good heart, and a great spirit. He's assembled an amazing team. He's American through and through, and he's going to take the country by storm. It's not about Kool-Aid, or radicals. It's about one nice, totally centrist, decent man who has led an extraordinary life and is asking for our help to make him our president. We need him right about now, I'd say.

Also, why is no one talking about the LOW TURNOUT in W.Va. yesterday? Chuckie Todd says it was around 150,000 below everyone's pumped-up estimates. It helped Hillary very little, after all the talk about how she would come back in terms of the popular vote. She's just staying in because there's no way to flee now and save face. She'll stay through the final races. Obama will take Oregon, come close or win Kentucky outright, take Montana, S. Dakota, and I predict he'll even win over her in Puerto Rico! Take that Howard Wolfson! Dems, we have a nominee. Get over yourselves and let's get behind him.

How ironic! The legions of faithful devotees to the TV show 'Survivor' are now watching the real-life show. Beyond all the hoopla and spin that media places on each and every word uttered, cheeky, fake grins photographed and all of the whistle stops made to patronize the 'real folks' by both candidates just magnifies the correlation between TV staging and reality. Isn't it a shame that we've been tuning in to watch this game of Survivor drag on between two candidates of the same party, wasting time, efforts and money? Too bad the viewing public is subjected to the constant honing in on the superfiicial minutia and many seem blinded to the big picture because of the drawn out drama. Hillary and BILL (don't forget they ARE a package deal, like it or not) will NEVER give up selling their souls to get back into the White House. They are narcissicists driven by personal agendas cloaked in allegiance and self-sacrifice for 'the People'. They are not servants of the people but polished and very astute, very WEALTHY, POLITICIANS....oh yes, that's experience all right. I don't buy their Saviour Schtick one bit. Hillary will spend all of the campaign money (and remind us of her own personal debt for the 'cause'),will step on whomever she needs to if in her path and will drag Billy Boy down Memory Lane to satisfy her/their unyielding, self-aggrandizing ego. Hey Hillary...what WON'T you do just to avoid being voted off of the island?

I find it interesting that 91% of blacks voted for Obama in a recent primary. If 91% of whites voted for Hillary Clinton in a specific primary there would be a "march on Washington." Al Sharpton would be out with Jesse and the boys. Interesting........We won't be a "color blind" nation until we are up in arms when 71% of blacks vote for a black candidate let alone 91%.
I'm a moderate Democrat. Not a peace/love guy. Not a march in the street affirmative action guy. Not an "Obama reminds me of a young JFK guy." None of that B-S. Moderate. Middle class. A wife, 2 kids and a dog.I always felt Fox News and other "right wing" claims that there is a "liberal bias" was false but I found out this year that it isn't false at all. I've been a Hillary supporter. I have been absolutely aghast at the Press coverage she has recieved as compared to the Press coverage Obama has recieved. CNN is unbelievably pro Obama. The New York Times. The Washington Post. The Boston Globe. The major networks. My homepage is Yahoo.com and you should see the "tone" of the daily headlines re: Obama as compared to Clinton. "Clinton wins in W. Virginia but it won't help." as compared to "Obama loses W.Virginia but confident regarding Oregon."..........I remember the day Ted and Caroline Kennedy endorsed Obama. There was a panel on Charlie Rose that night. I thought Charlie Rose was gonna start crying. He talked about how "this was a great day in America. One of the greatest days if his lifetime." etc. etc. etc. I almost threw up...........I'll vote for Obama when push comes to shove but this whole "thing" has opened my eyes and left a very BAD TASTE in my mouth.

"Due to HIS use of the race card, he has divided the party"

You're lying

I am leaning toward Obama mainly because Clinton is playing dirty politics. Although some might say that Obama's minister may have seen his opportunity for his moment of fame and ran with it, I think he was put up to it. There is more to it than meets the eye. I'd bet on it.
Its not just Hillary but Bill and Hillary if she is elected. Remember Bill is a past president and as such can attend anything that involves presidential matters. Who is to know that he will stick his nose into her affairs? Do we want Bill back in the White House for four more years? I don't. Hillary wants to use Ms. as if whe was no longer married. Then why is Bill still hanging by her coattails? Kinda strange don't you think?

You hillary supporters that claim they will not vote for Obama are truly morons. As much as I hate queen hillary, given the choice between her and a bush third term I would vote for her while trying not to vomit. You idiots would sooner destroy the country than get over your idiotic stupid prejudices. The more I read the comments of you lame hillary followers the more convinced I am that the demographics showing most of her supporters to be undereducated is accurate and a great argument for mandatory IQ testing before being allowed to cast a ballot.....

One correction:

""Obama has turned me off even more each day. If Hillary does not get the nomination, I will be among millions of Democrats writing her name in on the ballot."

AND when you do that, and get enough other Zealots to go along with you, you will be electing McBush guarenteeing 4 more years of our Soldiers dying in Iraq. I'd like to hear you explain to the mother or father of a Kid killed after McCain's win that you voted for HILLARY as a write in Candidate thus allowing McCain to win, because you couldn't get your way. I DARE you."

In response to Darleneanne - "Hillary didn't get in the way of Obama winning W. Virginia - he did."

There were only 330,552 people voted in W. Virginia - big deal, and the spin continues for lier Hillary and company. Your candidate is demeaning you guys by saying that the uneducated are voting for her. Lier Hillary is in the way of Obama moving forward not the other way round. I don't call her continued campaigning strength, I called it selfish. Obama will prevail in all those states that lier Hillary won....give me a break. It's time to wake up or McBush will be your next President.

"dont worry florida or michigan voters we democrats here will get even with obama when we help him lose in november our vote will count in november ha ha"

YEP get revenge for those Michigan Voters a whopping 40% of whom voted for "uncommitted" rather than check Mrs Clinton's name.
=====================================================================================

"Okay .....so Obama supporters do you really think the 17% black vote and the kid vote can win an election?"

OF COURSE not, but the vote of this 52 year old "kid" and millions of others like her can.
====================================================================================

"was going to publicize evidence showing Obama to be gay/bi-sexual"

You GOP trolls are so obvious, the stink of defeat is wafting through my computer; why don't you toddle off and support McCoot, with that "foreign" Policy of his, and his nonsenical "Economic" plan he is going to need all the "yes men" he can muster.
==================================================================================

"Due to HIS use of the race card, he has divided the party...what a uniter! "

LET"S play a game shall we? who said:

"...he is living in a Fantasy Land" where only the "Jesse Jackson" crowd would vote for him..

He is Not a muslim "...as far as I know..."

LBJ is almost single-handedly responsible for Civil Rights Legislation passed in the '60's (has the speaker never heard of Martin Luther King?)

"hard working" Americans, "WHITE Americans" won't vote for him.
======================================================================================

"No wonder Hillary's had it so hard; she's up against women who hate that they are women"

YEP that Hillary has had it hard alright, that is if you discount her charmed life; Wellesley Valedictorian, Yale Law, Marriage to a man equally ambitious (although he is an admitted philanderer), high flying Rose Law Firm Lawyer, stints as "First Lady" in AR and the White House, easy carpet-bagged win to the NY Senate, now in a tight race with a bi-racial guy abandoned by his father at 3, raised by a single White Mother, who went through an identity crisis in his youth that might have turned his life in a completely different direction, but pulls himself up by the bootstraps to get a Harvard degree, then eschews high dollar law career to become a community organizer in the poor neighborhoods of south side Chicage, then the Illnois Senate, to the US Senate to where we find him today. If Hillary's gender presented a "glass ceiling" and I agree that her intelligence, and the work horse ambition that got her there, is very admirable, as a post-feminist woman myself, I appreciate her drive, however, Obama had./has an even bigger hurdle to get over: race. Hillary has one asset that Obama never did; her whiteness, and it would be foolish not to acknowledge the advantage it has given her.
================================================================================================

"Consider: Another presidential candidate--Lincoln, a fine orator, though politically inexperienced--was similarly branded as unqualified, yet his presidency was arguably a turning point for America."

GREAT minds think alike, this is a comparison that I have been making for weeks; Obama and Lincoln have about the same experience in the IL legislation; is there any rational American alive who would question the wisdom of electing the President who saved our Republic despite his "lack of experience," and based on the beauty of his words to boot?
================================================================================================

"Better the devil you know than the devil you don't know" is what has held American politics hostage for generations."

I couldn't agree more. As the great Sam Cook sang "a change is gonna come."
=============================================================================================

"This is so funny. The Obama kids are appear to be desperate for Hillary to quit (which she will not). This means they fear she can still win."

Not this 52 yr old "kid," I don't fear a win by Clinton because, at this point, she CAN'T win.
=====================================================================================================

"Obama has turned me off even more each day. If Hillary does not get the nomination, I will be among millions of Democrats writing her name in on the ballot."

AND when you do that, and get enough other Zealots to go along with you, you will be electing McBush guarenteeing 4 more years of our Soldiers dying in Iraq. I'd like to hear you explain to the mother or father of a Kid killed after McCain's win that you voted for him because you couldn't get your way. I DARE you.
====================================================================================================

"If loud cheering by Internet blowhards were the criteria, Hillary would already be president."

OH yeah.

"No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President"

Is McCain - an artificially born Citizen??

So who are you getting even with? Your the one going to be stuck with Mccain, years in Iraq, $8.00 a gallon gas (and that is not a guess it will be a reality in less then 24 months). So who have you gotten with? Obama will make tens of millions speaking and writing books. People like me who are retired and have plenty will just go on. Reminds me of strikers once who thought they had the owner of a plant over a barrel. He just closed the plant and retired. He was worth a billions dollars and had been doing them a favor keeping it open. Yea, they showed him.

(((((((((((((((
how can obama win when so many hillary supporters will vote for mccain to me it doesnt add up obama supporters say they dont need hillary supporters i guess we will find out in november when obama loses because of democrat voters voting for mccain dont worry florida or michigan voters we democrats here will get even with obama when we help him lose in november our vote will count in november ha ha

Posted by: dixieb | May 14, 2008 1:23 PM

Since when is America 83% white?

So what, he is the nominee like it or not.

(((((((((((((((
Okay .....so Obama supporters do you really think the 17% black vote and the kid vote can win an election?

Hillary Dems are saying they will write her name in on the ballot. NOT that they will vote for McCain...that McCain can easily defeat Obama because they will not vote for him. He scares the crap out of us for multiple reasons, his lack of experience just for starters and we are suspect of his massive media support as well.

Your Obama thing has been pie in the sky. A country that is 83% white will not elect a black president. Wait until the demographic is 83% black, then you will have a black president for sure.

Didn't you notice 90% of all blacks voted for their skin color? why wouldn't white voters do the same thing?

Posted by: g | May 14, 2008 1:16 PM

Right now it is looking like Dennis Kucinich could win if he had the nomination. A Democratic leaning ficus would probably win. There is no right or wrong candidate. A game of rock, paper, scissors is just as valid as the strongest candidate among white, blue-collar voters.

The only question for super delegates is this: The devil you know or the devil you don't?

I am a high school drop-out, so there is no snobbishness to this post.

Does anyone who relies on the under-educated to support them guarantee MY vote? I think not.

Perhaps that's my problem. Even with a limited formal education, I was taught how to think.

A leader of the uneducated does not automatically represent me.

Mike Farrell
Cagayan de Oro

dixieb wrote:
"i guess we will find out in november when obama loses because of democrat voters voting for mccain dont worry florida or michigan voters we democrats here will get even with obama when we help him lose in november our vote will count in november ha ha"

Democrats who would switch allegiances purely out of spite are obviously not Democrats, nor are they apparently concerned with the future of their country.

My guess is that these individuals more likely form the hordes of "undecided voters" and "swing staters" who, given that they could so effortlessly contemplate a vote for that military monomaniac McCain, evidently have not yet found their moral compass.

So much for the Common Good; they're no better than the Limbaugh Yes Men.

It doesn't matter that some white voters voted for Obama in the Democratic primary...now start thinking strategically about a general election as Hillary Dems have all along. We picked Hillary because we know she is the only one who can beat McCain and she is the best and most experienced candidate for the job.

The average white voter, 83%, of the total will not vote for Obama. Period. There are so many other problems with his electability for the average American voter. His Muslim name, his racism, his pastor.

Blacks votes for blacks, 90% voted for their own skin color. Whites are going to do the same when it comes down to it.

I'm not agreeing with this paradigm but this is the way things work. Why not face reality instead of setting it up so that the Dems lose once again to a Republican?

i have no idea what the Obama campaign is afraid of. This primary campaign is only helping the Democratic Party despite the spin obama and the media are trying to put on it. I don't get it. he's the most fearful presumptive nominee I've ever seen. maybe there really is something to be afraid of? And - the spin the media is putting on the comment about white, working-class is truly amusing - and sad. She is in the way of his getting that vote in the same manner as he is in the way of her getting the Black working-class vote. but nobody minds when that is mentioned. And - we certainly can't say anything when a media person says, "Obama got 93% of the Black vote in that town." Is that a racist thing to say or - just the truth? Some very thin skins running around this primary campaign. Hillary didn't get in the way of Obama winning W. Virginia - he did.

I disagree with the contention that this primary, along with PA and OH, shows that Obama can't win these and similar swing states. After all, Obama was not running against a Republican but against the Clintons and often against the party establishment such as the formidable Ed Rendell and his allies.

homer www.altara.blogspot.com

I have a pointed question to ask all of you; given the exit polls in all the states do you believe that a black person can be president in this country?

g:
Your premise that white voters will not vote for Obama is false based on other states with large white populations primary results: See Idaho; 80% to Obama, 17% to Clinton (nearly costing her any delegate allocation there), Alaska 75% to Obama, 25% to Clinton, Kansas 74% to Obama, 26% Clinton, North Dakota 61% to Obama, 37% to Clinton, Nebraska, 68% to Obama, 32 % to Clinton, Utah 57% to Obama, 39% to Clinton.

Hard to argue these facts, g. I'm sorry you have a problem with a black candidate. But not everybody does.

She should have said "I am in this race because of race."

After this display, we don't just need her out of this race, we need her out of the Senate. I'd rather see D'Amato come back. $2300 to any primary challenger, just let me know who to write the check to in '12 (FOBs need not apply).

She should have said "I am in this race because of race."

After this display, we don't just need her out of this race, we need her out of the Senate. I'd rather see D'Amato come back. $2300 to any primary challenger, just let me know who to write the check to in '12 (FOBs need not apply).

I'm thinking if Clinton's supporters are ignored and Hillary is locked out of the ticket.

Obama will go down like Dukakus. It will be so bad, he'll have to retire.

how can obama win when so many hillary supporters will vote for mccain to me it doesnt add up obama supporters say they dont need hillary supporters i guess we will find out in november when obama loses because of democrat voters voting for mccain dont worry florida or michigan voters we democrats here will get even with obama when we help him lose in november our vote will count in november ha ha

"But what strikes me is I have never read a proper analysis of this argument. Is losing the Democratic primary in a (swing) state an indicator you are likely to lose the general election in that state? And if at all, how strongly?"

It's pretty hard to say for sure. The last two elections were close, but presidential elections are typically blowouts. Furthermore, primaries don't usually go on this long. I'm not sure the last time the Ohio or Pennyslvania primaries were especially meaningful. (One could make the argument that Pennyslvania wasn't meaningful THIS time either)

Okay .....so Obama supporters do you really think the 17% black vote and the kid vote can win an election?

Hillary Dems are saying they will write her name in on the ballot. NOT that they will vote for McCain...that McCain can easily defeat Obama because they will not vote for him. He scares the crap out of us for multiple reasons, his lack of experience just for starters and we are suspect of his massive media support as well.

Your Obama thing has been pie in the sky. A country that is 83% white will not elect a black president. Wait until the demographic is 83% black, then you will have a black president for sure.

Didn't you notice 90% of all blacks voted for their skin color? why wouldn't white voters do the same thing?

I heard about Nick Colvin as well. I know about Larry Sinclair and Obama....and Donald Young the Gay Choir boy being murdered because he was going to publicize evidence showing Obama to be gay/bi-sexual

If the Dems expect to win elections, they need to nominate candidates who are HONEST, rather than SLICK. If progressives had all voted for Kucinich (the only viable progressive) in the primaries, instead of listening to the constant "conventional wisdom" that was repeated over and over like a mantra by his competitors for the nomination (i.e., "He can't win!!") we wouldn't be faced with a mediocre/corporatist nominee (no matter whether that nominee turns out to be Obama or Clinton).

The Dems have become too damned comfortable with their "Lesser Evilism" strategy. What we need--and deserve!--is a president we can vote for without holding our noses. It's obvious that the DNC is incapable of providing such a candidate this year...or, perhaps, any time in the foreseeable future.

Once again, I will suffer the slings and arrows of "loyal" Democrats who will chant another common mantra--"Any Democrat is better than a Republican!" That may or may not be true; but whether it is true or not, it sets a ridiculously low 'standard' for a president of what we would like to think of as "The Best, Free-est, Fairest" Nation in the world.

So far, I'm leaning toward Ralph Nader, at least until I see whom the Green Party nominates. We should ALL be supporting candidates (like Nader) who will represent the interests of 'We The People', as opposed to candidates who "can win" due to the money they have raised from the darker side of America.

NB: The "can't win" mantra has worked so well in the past in dismissing candidates like Dennis Kucinich from serious consideration, you can see that Ms. Clinton has pulled it out of her 'trick bag' to use against Barack Obama...for the most heinous reasons.

Wake Up America....you have become "chumps" to whatever strategy the Democratic Party apparatchiks decide to con you with.
---------------------------------

"And the day came when the risk it took to remain tight inside the bud was more painful than the risk it took to bloom." ---- Anais Nin

Well we know Hillary is gay that goes all the way back to her collage days and people who knew her then. I seriously don't think Obama is gay.
====================

Is the relationship between obama and nick colvin (his aide) just sexual or are they in love?

Posted by: Obama Sexual Prefrerence | May 14, 2008 1:07 PM

Don't even get me started what a no good turd that guy is. He will get ripped to pieces in the election. He is an indefensible candidate worthless in every way.

)))))))))))
John McCain was an honorable naval officer the son and grandson of admirals. After he ditched the wife who stood by him while he was a PoW he married a rich sweet young thing and used her families money to carpetbag to AZ and run for Office. McCain as a senator is a sad joke. As President he would be a disaster.

Posted by: Walter M | May 14, 2008 1:04 PM

Is the relationship between obama and nick colvin (his aide) just sexual or are they in love?

John McCain was an honorable naval officer the son and grandson of admirals. After he ditched the wife who stood by him while he was a PoW he married a rich sweet young thing and used her families money to carpetbag to AZ and run for Office. McCain as a senator is a sad joke. As President he would be a disaster.

It's doesn't matter anymore. he has stopped campaigning against Hillary about a week ago. Hillary can do what she wants as she puts a match the the hard earned money of her supporters. Her supporters are the ones really getting screwed. Not to mention all the vendors she has stiffed for millions. So much for her caring about the hard working americans just trying to run a business who were unfortunate enough to have come in contact with her. I know one guy who did a sound system who she owes $3000.00 They don't even return his calls after like 2 months. By the way, they were stiffing people even before the money crunch. They just don't pay. She doesn't give a s**t about working people other then their votes.

)))))))))))
If Obama is as strong as some have commented here, and is a "sure thing" to beat McCain, it should be no problem for him to wait until the convention to get the nomination.

Posted by: Georgetowner1 | May 14, 2008 12:57 PM

Even if Hillary were considered the more electable candidate because of her ability to win primaries in the swing states of PA, OH, WV, etc., her nomination by the Democratic party would result in the wholesale defection of Black Americans and the massive numbers of young voters who support Obama. It is one thing to be disappointed when your candidate is defeated, and quite another when the nomination is stolen away by backroom deals. Hillary was the initial front-runner and she blew it. Let's not destroy the party over her failed bid for the presidency.

If Obama is as strong as some have commented here, and is a "sure thing" to beat McCain, it should be no problem for him to wait until the convention to get the nomination.

The reason Obama is not getting some of the white working class vote is that Hiliary is in the way

I voted for Hillary in the primary, although I made my final decision in the voting booth. If my primary were today instead, I would vote for Obama. There is something "Snake Oil" about Hillary. I believe Obama cares about the USA more than himself. I can't say that about hillary. That said, whoever wins the nomination will get my vote in November. I can't fathom how a Hillary supporter can say if she doesn't get the nomination, they will vote for McCain. That's like, if I can't be the quarterback, I am taking my ball and going home. It makes no sense. None.
Both Obama and Hillary are great candidates. I truly believe that, but I know the Republicans would relish a chance to defeat the Clintons. They hate them with a vengance I don't understand, but they do. We won't win over the Republicans that are sick of Bush's politics with Hillary. Obama has won the popular vote, and the majority of delegates. Why would he not get the nomination? More people voted for him...where he was actually on the ticket. I bet you wouldn't hear a word from the Hillary campaign about counting the Michigan & Florida votes if she were winning. How can you change the rules after the game is over? Come on. It just reaks of politics as usual.

Hillary is only catching up with national debt.She hasn't moved me all year. I still remember the land deal Bill & Hillary split out of.

Mean time she will need 8 out of 10 to move her way to even have a chance, thats 80% of the remaining. In the last week she has managed less then 2% and that probably changed in the time it took me to write this post. It's over in every posable way she could have won other then Obama going down in a plane crash. At some point you have to take your head out of the sand, other then the fund raising, "IT'S OVER".

)))))))))))
As her supporter I expect her to fight till the end! Obamabots don't see to realize alot of people have buyers remorse and no longer want this unknown 20 minute senator with his black theology mindset and questionable relationships in the office! The RULES (Obamabots love quoting the rules!) state that the supers can choose the best candidate for the general election! When the supers get enough spine to do so, she will have won by the rules, not stealing as the Obamabots like to scream. The threat of riots in the streets are nothing new, we all know that blacks support their own even when it isn't right to do (O.J., Micheal Jackson etc.)Neither candidate will have the math to win without the supers! Rules are they can pick the best candidate to win, if the "educated" would use common sense they would know BO can not win without the core of the dem party! Due to HIS use of the race card, he has divided the party...what a uniter! What a joke he has turned out to be!!!!

Posted by: Sherri | May 14, 2008 12:24 PM

Hillary is hanging on by her fingernails hoping for a miracle.

She will not quit as long as she any money to run on.

That is the only thing that will stop her -- running out of money.

I liked how Bill and Hillary helped the last two Democrats win the presidency. Have her supporters forgotten this? Why didn't she run against the shrub? Me thinks that if they had done their job, we wouldn't have had to endure the last eight years of crap.But low and behold they were nowhere to be seen or heard. what was up with that? That is the problems with the Democrats,they are about themselves. When you first heard Obama speeches it was always "we", Clinton was always "me", not until later did she change. As a Democrat, I will support whoever the nominee is. I can't survive 8 more years of this crap. We will take over congress, senate, and once we get together we will install a new president. As stated earlier in this blog, what was "lincolns" experience? I might say he did a "good" job arguably. What I think scares a lot of the older generations is the fact that Obama is bringing a new generation to the political scene. They have differing ideas on what they feel or want, and most of the older generation likes to cling to the past. Hell I would like to go back to the old days, but realized that ain't a happenin. I'm 58, white, educated, some money, bitter sometimes, a church goer (baptist), cling to my gun (only when I go hunting or target practice) and voting for Obama. If by some weird chance that Hillary is the nominee, she will get my vote. First and foremost I set aside my feelings and will vote for the person that will best represent the change this country needs/wants, lets all bury the rhetoric and stand behind our nominee and kick some Republican a$$!Bring our troops home, restore our reputation abroad, take care of our own people and get this country on it's way again. To my blue collar friends, do you really think that sitting this out will serve you well? Peace

Numbers don't matter? You sound like some of those dopes who got those creating mortgages and are now losing their houses. Trust me, numbers matter. By the way, have you sent your donation to the "Pay off Hillary's debt fund today" Have you donated ANY money to your candidate? If not you may be part of the problem. It takes more then wishes to win and that is all Hillary has left thanks to her so called supporters. I am afraid it is just too late, she ran a terrible campaign, of of the worst possibly ever and just no longer deserves to win. The loss can be laid at Hillary's feet and no one else. Want to get mad at someone, get mad at Hillary for blowing it. I don't feel sorry for her at all.

)))))))))))))
No she isn't going anywhere and she is in it to win it!!! Thank you West Virginia for keeping our greatest hope for November alive and well. I'm so sick of "do the math". It was less than 3 months ago the pundits said Obama cannot win by math alone. Thump, 41 points, thump, West Virginia. You do the math. Obama cannot win in the general election. We Democrats need to do the right thing and nominate Hillary. She can win in November without Obama and he can't win without her (not that he would ask or she would accept). Just like men, pundits, DNC, news media, to ask the woman to make him President. Please wake up, voters left and superdelegates, it's not over yet, and Hillary will win and prevail in the end!!! Also, please donate to Hillary at:

www.hillaryclinton.com

Posted by: Mary O'Bryan | May 14, 2008 12:21 PM

Am I the only one noticing the woman hatred by Obama female voters? They project their gender self loathing onto Hillary Clinton. No wonder Hillary's had it so hard; she's up against women who hate that they are women. This is the same dynamic that happened when the Suffragettes attempted to instill equal rights for women. Their fiercest opponents were scores of women hating women! Blacks don't hate themselves yet far too many women do.

Sen. Clinton continues to be a shrill and angry harpy, unwilling or unable to accept the fact that she is not going to be the Democratic presidential nominee. It seems she would rather destroy the Party than withdraw gracefully.

...I'm sending her a donation today. I have never donated to a political figure before (I'm pretty much a starving artist, albeit a college educated one) but since i can't stand the injustice I have seen against Hillary Clinton.... I will be sending a donation to help fight the political corruption against her.

Women supporters of Clinton: Your candidate lost. Show a little class and get over it. Being vindictive is not helping your cause and maybe just reinforncing reasons why women are not qualified to hold higher office.

Chris,as I read these comments I experience a huge feeling of disappointment
in my fellow Americans. Is not the objective of our entire primary system to select the candidate the most citizens want. Unless I have lost the ability to read or comprehend information...it appears the registered Democrats have been doing just that! You don't like the outcome? Too bad, sometimes you don't get your way!

I have been a registered Republican for many years and have supported the party's nominee. However, the Republicans have squandered all their goodwill and made a total laughingstock of their principles - can anyone possibly see Senator McCain elected in November? (Actually it's too bad Senator McCain is saddled with his party and the "can of worms" they've created - he has served his country honorably and with distiction for many years.)

I will vote for a Democrat this November and I sincerely hope it is Barack Obama. Senator Obama has shown the ability to bring back some of the "pride in country"
that has grown stale in the hearts of Americans. Truly he inspires the belief:
That as Americans united we can and will do anything!

Voting for Hillary would be a painful experience. I am still tormented by her "vast right-wing conspiracy" response when the "Lewinski" story broke - not sure that is the kind of gut reaction I want our President to have when they answer the phone at 3 AM - but if forced...

Folks this is not a football game...the decision we make is not for a trophy to be awarded. The results are the very livelihood of our citizens and the fate of our nation. Let's make the best decision possible and stop calling one another and our leaders names. People respond best to kind words and progress together when each carries part of the load.

It appears the people have chosen Senator Obama as the Democrat's standard bearer in a traditional democratic process; let's make certain the peoples choice is victorious this November!

Hannah wrote:
"...voters are assessing the pragmatic strengths of the candidates to turn around the mess Bush leaves. "Popularity" is giving way to hiring an executive. The times have changed. The devil you know..."

"Popularity" is, in fact, only the measure by which Senator Obama's success over Senator Clinton can be gauged. Voters have recognized, after all the mud-slinging, character assassination, and political grandstanding, that he is, in fact, the more qualified candidate to bring about determinative change in this country.

Consider: Another presidential candidate--Lincoln, a fine orator, though politically inexperienced--was similarly branded as unqualified, yet his presidency was arguably a turning point for America.

"Better the devil you know than the devil you don't know" is what has held American politics hostage for generations.

Indeed, times are only ABOUT to change as is dawns on the Clintons and Clintonites alike that the politics of old just don't fly with a responsible and informed citizenry. The numbers don't lie.

As her supporter I expect her to fight till the end! Obamabots don't see to realize alot of people have buyers remorse and no longer want this unknown 20 minute senator with his black theology mindset and questionable relationships in the office! The RULES (Obamabots love quoting the rules!) state that the supers can choose the best candidate for the general election! When the supers get enough spine to do so, she will have won by the rules, not stealing as the Obamabots like to scream. The threat of riots in the streets are nothing new, we all know that blacks support their own even when it isn't right to do (O.J., Micheal Jackson etc.)Neither candidate will have the math to win without the supers! Rules are they can pick the best candidate to win, if the "educated" would use common sense they would know BO can not win without the core of the dem party! Due to HIS use of the race card, he has divided the party...what a uniter! What a joke he has turned out to be!!!!

No she isn't going anywhere and she is in it to win it!!! Thank you West Virginia for keeping our greatest hope for November alive and well. I'm so sick of "do the math". It was less than 3 months ago the pundits said Obama cannot win by math alone. Thump, 41 points, thump, West Virginia. You do the math. Obama cannot win in the general election. We Democrats need to do the right thing and nominate Hillary. She can win in November without Obama and he can't win without her (not that he would ask or she would accept). Just like men, pundits, DNC, news media, to ask the woman to make him President. Please wake up, voters left and superdelegates, it's not over yet, and Hillary will win and prevail in the end!!! Also, please donate to Hillary at:

www.hillaryclinton.com

This is so funny. The Obama kids are appear to be desperate for Hillary to quit (which she will not). This means they fear she can still win.

Why not just take her words at face value. She says she can win and she means it. She will continue on until a winner is declared. Why do Obama supporters fear the completion of this race?

It is the same argument that the Clintons have been using for some time. There are two: 1) Ready to lead on day one and;
2) More electable in select large and swing states.

The campaign has abandoned the first after the demise of Mark Penn, and it arguably did little to help her bid.
The second is wearing thin - polling shows that Obama still wins big blue states, and is competitive in purple states that Hillary has little chance to win.

The more honest evaluation of the situation is that both candidates would likely beat John McCain, and Obama has been chosen by the Democratic party to represent them.

CHRIS
What did you expect here to say? You actually think she believes what she was saying? It was a speech you give after a win but other then an attempt to raise a little money, I don't think anyone, even her or Bill thinks they have any chance to win. Chris, I don't think you are very perceptive, it was a concession speech.

HILLARY SAYS IT'S OVER

I just listened to Hillary's speech from last night. I taped it and just had a chance to listen to it. It was like you hearing a speech and then seeing sub titles running along the bottom. It was, regardless how she seemed to deliver it, saying it is over and she knows it. You didn't even have to read between the lines she comes out and says it. She just doesn't have it in her after all this time to just quit but she will let the clock run out hear the buzzed and that will be it. the speech was very telling.

So, all the votes must be counted. But in the end those votes will not count?

I must say I have been a Hillary supporter for the last year or so but what I have seen in this race for the nomination has really impressed me. This lady is not only a problem solver but she's STRONG. She's has gained even more of my admiration. Before I was a Hillary supporter, now I am an ardent Hillary supporter.

I remember when Al Gore would not give in to the corrupt hacks asking him to step down in his race for the US Presidency... (I am a huge Al Gore supporter). Gore proved to me that he would not let our country down and that he is a fighter. I see this same quality in Hillary Clinton. She has faced the most unjust media bias, she has remained strong despite the questionably high contributions to her opponents campaign chest.

(When Kerry dropped out even before the votes were counted I was very disappointed in him.)

Obama has turned me off even more each day. If Hillary does not get the nomination, I will be among millions of Democrats writing her name in on the ballot.

Clinton's plan was to have it wrapped up by Super Tuesday. She made minimal plans for states voting after then. Spent all her money and effort to win by Super Tuesday. When it didn't work out as hoped, her team's planning deficiencies popped out loud and clear.
Do we want this type of managerial talent as President?
And, remember, it was the folks from WV who put w into office. Now that's a good performance. I don't want to see it repeated.
bouttime

I concur with the blog title whole-heartedly. Hillary is not going anywhere anytime soon. She is not going towards the nomination and she is not quitting. She is more in a status quo position, how fitting. The only direction Hillary is moving to is more campaign debt. Hopefully, her supporters will give her more money to reduce her campaign debt so that she can exit the presidential race gracefully.

Since you "Hardworking Whites" support Hillary so much, why don't you give her some of your hard-earned money?

I keep hearing how popular Hillary is with "Real Americans". Are real Americans just misers, is that it? Where's the money to back up this support?

If loud cheering by Internet blowhards were the criteria, Hillary would already be president. But it's not. I keep hearing what a fighter she is. But even that clown Romney invested far more of his money on a much longer shot.

Neither Hillary nor her supporters put their money where their mouth is. Money talks, bullsh1t walks, and the Hillary campaign is walking off into the sunset.

If you want to understand the folks in WV & the mountain south, you need to read "Born Fighting" by Senator jim Webb (D-VA). Just bitter folks clinging to God & guns.

Picking on African Americans for their ethnic heritage--not PC
Picking on Scotch-Irish Hillbillies for their ethnic heritage--PC
Picking on Women like Clinton for their gender--Not PC
Picking on geezers like McCain for their age--PC.

" but it is never the less true that the election is won in the swing states and Clinton is stronger in those states."

Among mostly Democratic Voters that is; who will moderate Republicans and Independants vote for? Lost in all the "sexy time" punditry about Obama's "loss" of white blue collar workers, is the fact that he DOES have appeal to independants, and moderate Repulbicans...evidenced by his endorsements from Eisenhower's grand-daughter, Lincoln Chaffee and others.

"So Democrats be ware- if we go ahead and nominate Obama- it will be a tough fight with no guarentees."

Are you say that Mrs Clinton with her high "Negatives" among the general electorate would be a shoo-in for the Presidency? Methinks that you have been listening to one too many Clinton campaign speeches...

Hillary's failure to give Obama the extra few weeks for campaigning against McCain is mean spirited.

Her behavior in the face of personal crisis and the political certainty of Obama's nomination suggests that she is not qualified to be President of the United States.

Compare Obama who, at all times, when faced with failure, political crisis and racism has remained cool, cautious, gentlemanly, graceful and dignified. Personality and character are the two most vital ingredients in a good President because the translate into inspirational leadership. That's what this country needs now after eight years of self-ruination.

How many ways can you say it is over?

1. Elvis is dead, no really, I know you spotted him in McDonald's in WV, but he really is dead.

2. If you keep campaigning like this you will give Bill another heart attack, but I know you love him and this is not your plan, right? I said, right?

3. You can't win while losing.

4. Winning is not in the eye of the beholder, you really are losing.

5. The remaining states have set up road blocks to keep your motorcade out.

6. Macy's is having a sale on pantsuits and scarf's in every possible color and variety, and if you hurry you can still make it.

7. Chelsea is too old to bring out the young voters on college campuses, they like Obama instead, yep...no...it is true...yep...so stop sending her there.

8. Just because you have checks in your checkbook does not mean you have spending money...put the Dunkin Donuts back, Bill. You too, Hillary, nope...you are broke, I said no more donuts...don't make me chase you!

9. Can't you just go home?

10. You don't get everything that you want out of life, no matter how you change the rules in the 4th inning.

11. If you drop out now, I promise to run interference when the bill collectors call.

12. Look, up at the sky, PIGS are flying! Sike! Made you look!

13. Don't attempt to adjust the TV...that really is Barack being sworn in.

14. It's over....It's over....It's over....no we don't want to look at any more fuzzy math...you can stop telling the SD to consider adding Mexico as the 51 state...it's so over.

15. Ok, you can come for visits at the White House, and Barack will let you sit in the BIG chair for a spell, won't that be fun? You can even twirl yourself around...and you can use the phone to make crank calls to Bill's new girlfriend.

16. We promise to elect you President of Fl and MI!

There is a huge logical hole in Clinton's argument about swing states. Her argument goes, "I am winning the swing states in the Democratic primary. The Democratic nominee needs to win the swing states to win the general election. Therefore, I will have a better chance as the Democratic nominee." The problem is that there is no reason to believe there is any correlation between the results in the Democratic primary and the results in the general election.

Does Clinton really think that if she were the nominee, she'd win Oklahoma in the general election? Does Clinton really think that when Obama is the nominee, McCain will win New York in the general election?

Does Clinton really think that if she were the nominee, McCain would win DC in the general election? Does Clinton really think that when Obama is the nominee, Obama will win Idaho in the general election?

Unfortunately for Clinton, this argument doesn't even matter. Mathematics will catch up to her, sooner rather than later. About 25 superdelegates have committed over the last seven days. Obama's getting about 90% of them. Project that out to June 3rd, when Montana and South Dakota are the last two states to vote, add in a conservative projection for Obama's pledged delegate wins between now and then, and you'll see that Obama will easily have made it to 2025 by then.

There's no hurry for Clinton to drop out of the race. She can stay in as long as she likes, but it doesn't matter: Obama will be the nominee.

Let me add as a postscript another reminder that anyone posting here who claims to be a Democrat but doesn't support Obama in the general election should be assumed to be a Republican under a false flag.

Emlyn and Robin S., you are so right. I wanted to see a woman of my generation become President and now it is unlikley I will. It's sad to see Hillary out there in her fantasy world and know she has no one but herself to blame for the way she ran her campaign and the way her message has turned off so many Democratic voters, me included. The gift of grace, yes: may God grant it to Hillary.

A little conspiracy theory

We all know the Clintons have made a lot of money over the past recent years. I have a theory that Bill Clinton who has been paid tens of millions of dollars has been influence peddling. I have NO doubt that he has been all but promising Hillary would be president as he made who knows what kinds of deals with God knows who. It is very possible he has gotten himself mixed up with some bad people, the kind of people who don't like being Bu** S**ted. I also think they may wish to take matters into their own hands telling Hillary to never quit as they go about getting the chance to assassinate Obama bring the thing to an end and assuring Hillary would be president protecting their own interests. These unknown powers would then have a puppet in the white house under their thumb. Sound nuts? Don't be so sure and watch as events play out over the next few weeks. Bill and Hillary have a very bad history and are capable of a level of dishonesty and treachery that is mind boggling. I would say for them, murder would never be off the table to get what they want. I think they want Obama dead, that is what they are waiting for, not some scandal, they want him dead.

The fact that what Clinton says is true may or may not have an impact on the nomination but it is never the less true that the election is won in the swing states and Clinton is stronger in those states.

Democrats just need to ask Al Gore how important it is where you win your votes and not how many total votes you get.

The other thing that is made clear by Clintons wins in Ohio, PA, WV, NJ, Arkansas, and next week in KY is that she and Bill will be much more important to secure a win for Barack Obama than will be the likes of Ted Kennedy or John Kerry who couldn't even deliver MA for Obama.

I am an ardent Clinton supporter and once the nomination is finally decided if the nominee is Obama I will be an ardent Obama supporter, but in reality my vote won't matter. I vote in DC and Obama will in there handily so I am only one more vote.

This race will be one of two candidates the press love. Who do they love more may be the determining factor. When the Washington Post editorializes over John McCains weak climate control statement we may be seeing the answer.

John McCain is not a threatening Repbublican and the conservative wing of the party will come out if they see the chance to beat the most "liberal" Senator in the Senate. And you can be sure that tag will stick.

So Democrats be ware- if we go ahead and nominate Obama- it will be a tough fight with no guarentees.

The fact that what Clinton says is true may or may not have an impact on the nomination but it is never the less true that the election is won in the swing states and Clinton is stronger in those states.

Democrats just need to ask Al Gore how important it is where you win your votes and not how many total votes you get.

The other thing that is made clear by Clintons wins in Ohio, PA, WV, NJ, Arkansas, and next week in KY is that she and Bill will be much more important to secure a win for Barack Obama than will be the likes of Ted Kennedy or John Kerry who couldn't even deliver MA for Obama.

I am an ardent Clinton supporter and once the nomination is finally decided if the nominee is Obama I will be an ardent Obama supporter, but in reality my vote won't matter. I vote in DC and Obama will in there handily so I am only one more vote.

This race will be one of two candidates the press love. Who do they love more may be the determining factor. When the Washington Post editorializes over John McCains weak climate control statement we may be seeing the answer.

John McCain is not a threatening Repbublican and the conservative wing of the party will come out if they see the chance to beat the most "liberal" Senator in the Senate. And you can be sure that tag will stick.

So Democrats be ware- if we go ahead and nominate Obama- it will be a tough fight with no guarentees.

How does one define a swing state? Did Obama not win his share of swing states too? Remember, states like Illinois used to be swing states. Who's to say Illinois would not be rather insulted that after their Senator won the popular vote, pledged delegate vote, # of states won, leads in the national polls, and throroughly trounced his opponent in fundraising (something that will pay the Democratic party dividends for years to come), that the state wouldn't go for McCain in the general election. Electoral maps are not stagnant.

The punditry is continuing to pound on Obama's trouble with "blue collar workers" (code speak for po'white folk.) I'd like to say a couple of things about this line of thinking. Number one, Obama has won in plenty of nearly all white States, including my own, WA. In all the other States that Mrs Clinton has won, Obama has also won significant numbers of white voters. But let's look at his complete failure last night in real terms.

Anyway, about WV (my dad was born and raised there, BTW, but he was a pretty unusual man; although uneducated, I know that he would have voted for Obama if he were still alive, because he would have had a daughter who would have explained to him why it would be in his best interest to do so.) Anyway, West Virginia is one of the poorest, least educated, oldest populations in the Country. West Virginia has one of the most homogenous populations in the country: almost all white christian. I know that the WV was touted as a Hillary Win, but I can guarantee you, if it were John Edwards as the opposing Candidate he would have won, in fact I honestly believe that ANY white alternative to bi-racial Obama would have taken the State.

Exit polls indicate that 21% of the voters said that "race was an Issue." That is right folks, nearly a quarter of the voters wouldn't vote for a "black" man. Scary I know. Also, people ask WHY would the voters go for Clinton when statistically she can't win? Again look at the unfortunate educational level of WV. Mrs Clinton, Chelsea, Bill practically camped out in WV; Hillary sold the fantasy that she could win, and WV bought it. Obama essentially didn't campaign there (a mistake, IMO.) But again, I say we need to look at the demographics in the States where Obama did win, and even the States where he didn't...most of these States, Iowa, WA, WI, etc. are nearly all white, and most have healthy blue collar workers. Even in the States he lost such as IN, plenty of white blue collar people voted for him. But the pundits clearly think that it is "sexier" to play up the supposed "racial" divide between him and older, uneducated, blue collar people and women. If Obama chooses his running mate carefully, he WILL overcome the endemic racism in some of these small rural states.

One more comment, remember that the Democrats are opposing someone tainted with the stench of the failed Bush presidency. I think that with hard work the Democrats will prevail.

Impeachment, Whitewater, Pardons, "is," Hillarycare, right-wing conspiracy, etc. Still, Bill and Hillary came out on top.

The GOP is now on the ropes, why give them what they want most: a chance to defeat the Clintons. Sure, they will work hard to beat the new guy, but nothing will unite them like the Clintons. We need to move beyond the '90s. Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton deos not move me.

if obama wins the nomination, mccain will be president. i myself will vote GOP bec. the presidency of america cannot be entrusted to an inexperiences, silken-tongued obama reading speeches written by highly paid writers.

my candidate is sen clinton. wake up superdelegates!

If Hillary cannot win the democratic nomination by the votes by democrats, how is she going to win the general election?
I think a lot of women are supporting Hillary because she is a woman and because of the Clinton name. Let face it, you can't just keep changing the rules as you go along, the rules are the rules, and this gives you an idea of what kind of presidency Hillary would be. If Hillary would be president, I guarantee we would almost all regret that choice. She is Bush/Cheney lite. Hillary knows she won't win the nomination, but she wants to have a say or is seeking leverage for something she wants from Obama should he be president. She is playing to the end to bargain for a desparate need she and Bill Clinton only knows...most likely it is a favor due her close friends or cronies...

Hey Blert,

Ever figure out that the folksy image of the Republicans is just a gimmick to win votes? They're pretending to be part of rural America while implementing policies that actually hurt rural America. This is the party of oil barons and Wall Street. The Republican elite is laughing up its sleeves at rural America. Wake up!

Hillary Clinton's persistence in the primary races has gotten to the point where her inability to see the reality of the inevitable is much akin to President Bush's refusal to see the futility of staying in Iraq.

Hey Blert,

Ever figure out that the folksy image of the Republicans is just a gimmick to win votes? They're pretending to be part of rural America while implementing policies that actually hurt rural America. Republicans are laughing up their sleeves. Wake up!

Yes Clinton's argument of being able to win in the fall moves me. I'm not the biggest fan of Clinton but at the same time I absolutely despise McCain. I can't handle another republican in the white house. Lewis Black, a comedian, said it best..."At first I gave George Bush a little rope, and then he hung us all with it." That's what McCain will continue to do. Somebody who says we'll stay in Iraq for 100 years if necessary is saying to me "I don't have what it takes to get the job done and make sure Americans are safe." I don't think the president of the United States should even joke about bombing another country let along singing about bombing Iran. I refuse to vote for a man who is in my opinion, just as unqualified to be president as George Bush is.

Let's see, Hillary wins the rural white high school educated racists. Gong the bell, please!

What a bunch of sexist and racist blather. Too bad we are that divided. These comments show how divided people are- and give me the feeling people won't vote for Hillary because she's a woman and a Clinton. Most of the sexism is veiled, but it's there. They won't vote for Obama because he's black. That's not veiled.

As for the primary process- If you need a clear reason why HRC should not be president, its because of her inability to understand and act on the reality around her. Someone who is this out of touch with the state of the primary shouldn't be president of the State.

Hillary Clinton's main messages -- that she can win the nomination if she gets enough votes; that she can carry the swing states in the general election, and that she'd make the best president -- are so baffling it's hard to wrap my wits around her reasoning.

1. There just aren't that many more votes to get;
2. winning swing states in a primary -- against a member of your own party -- doesn't mean you're uniquely qualified to carry the state in a general election; and
3. although she could be an okay president, there's a dwindling basis for claiming she's the best choice.

The third reason above is the one that concerns me most: her unrelenting optimism about her chances of winning has become alarming. Each time she projects her certainty about it, she seems more and more out of touch with reality.

It's that break with reality that's gut wrenching. Watching her carry on as a winner, while her campaign is gasping for air, is approaching Shakespearean proportions. A once very likeable and capable woman appears to be losing her mind, and we're having to watch it happen. I wish her the swift gift of grace.

Emlyn, with American Idol syndrome waning with the economy, voters are assessing the pragmatic strengths of the candidates to turn around the mess Bush leaves. "Popularity" is giving way to hiring an executive. The times have changed.

The devil you know...

Hannah wrote:
"This historic candidacy of the first woman with a real chance to be president is such a mirror of society now. She's written off, dissed, passed over and she simply endures, getting stronger and better. She's being made more presidential by this campaign."

I categorically disagree with this assessment.

Senator Clinton's blatant political opportunism is precisely why she is losing. People didn't write her off or "diss" her because she was nice, but because she was NOT nice: Employing the worst type of politics.

Look around; nobody wants 4 more years of that kind of "presidential" behavior.

Whether her resilience to the inevitable return fire that she herself instigated is somehow evidence of her electability is irrational; low-ball campaigns come from low-ball candidates.

Either you recognize why it is that she lost her popularity or you don't. But any attempts to manufacture strengths from the transparent weaknesses of her corrupt moral compass is disingenuous.

Clinton is too closely aligned with the McCain policies without the sincerity to win in November.

This historic candidacy of the first woman with a real chance to be president is such a mirror of society now. She's written off, dissed, passed over and she simply endures, getting stronger and better. She's being made more presidential by this campaign.

A woman has to be twice as good as a man and even then men won't want her in the boys club. Despite the infatuation of the male media for Obama, the people who respond to her are the vast middle who choose the president.

If the Dems want to win in November, they're going to have to swallow their macho and acknowledge that their strongest candidate is a girl who's taking it to the convention.

I can't wait to see her delegates parade.

After another four years of waiting to nominate a candidate from the Democratic party for POTUS we are chosing someone who was in the Illinois STATE senate in 2005? This is our MOST QUALIFIED person? And we thought Bush was stupid. We deserve to lose this election!

Hillary is offering the same spin she always has--only the states I've won matter, only the constituencies that have supported me matter. I'm tired of hearing it, especially in WV (and KY) where voters are admittedly racist. I am angry and insulted that WV (and KY) would be given any weight at all. People like that should not be accommodated.

Anyway, I wish Hillary had been more gracious to Obama througout the campaign. A joint ticket would be unbeatable, I think. But as it is, Hillary doesn't match Obama's message of change, and she would look like a hypocrite if she took a place on Obama's ticket now.

I can't wait until June 3rd. The fat lady is clearing her throat.

Chris, a suggestion for a more appropriate title for this subject, one based on how Clinton and her people conducted their campaign... "Clinton burns cross on Obama's lawn" or, how about "Clinton partisans lynch Obama in WV". They, afterall, based their campaign and appeal to racism and false rumors so these titles have the advantage of being descriptive

West Virginia, huh?

The only weakness that Senator Clinton's (mostly pointless) win might suggest about Senator Obama is that he must overcome not just political loyalties, but racial prejudice as well.

It's like passing up Michael Jordan or Halle Berry. Sigh. Old habits die hard.

Obama= Dukakis redux.

If the W.VA. primary happened before Hillary's narrow win in IN and defeat in NC, would she be acting the same way now? I don't think so. It seems to me throughout this campaign she has been a sore loser and a sore winner. I don't care if she stays in as long as she displays graciousness. I haven't seen that so far except on rare occasions, so I am hoping for the best.

Interesting that she said "I can win the nomination if YOU decide I should." Who was she talking to, the superdelegates?

Elitist,

Of course this is part of the problem with Democrats in rural America. The wine-sipping, cosmopolitan elites in the party (who, by the way, ideologically disdain "elitism" even as they practice it) look down on Red states, rural lifestyles, etc., and regard people in those categories as uneducated hicks who are not capable of making rational, informed decisions. I mean, how else to explain that these people would vote Republican? It certainly can't be that these people have brains enough to realize when they are being mocked, can it?

I haven't read all of the expressed convictions below, as I'm not a US citizen myself (it would seem to me that as a US citizen, I would have a desire to focus more on who would be the better president, rather than on who could win it against McCain). But I have been following the campaign closely since January, and I realize the argument is one that the Clinton campaign has repeatedly put forward.

But what strikes me is I have never read a proper analysis of this argument. Is losing the Democratic primary in a (swing) state an indicator you are likely to lose the general election in that state? And if at all, how strongly?

The other point that seems important to me is: supposing the Clinton campaign is correct, weren't there a few other swing states (or states that could be won from the Republicans) where the assumption would hold in the opposite sense, i.e. that only Obama can win them? Virginia (not W.-Va.) comes to my mind, here, but I'm not sure overall.

Just a comment. There are alot of jokes about how WV doesnt matter or that it is "cosmopolitan." Dont you think this attitude is one reason why Democrats have trouble in the heartland and blue collar voters?

Odd how white voters voting for Hillary is seen as just the way it is, whereas black voters voting for Obama is down to racist blacks.

Jeez well done HRC supporters for trying to turn America back 50 years and promote segregation.

Why not just ask for a bill to be introduced to take away the votes from people of color.

Obama is half-white- whoops, I guess he would still be entitled to run, even in segregated America.

HRC supporters using sexism as a valid reason for HRC to keep going, do you see any Obama supporters using racism as valid reason for Obama not to quit?

Yet HRC supporters continue to discuss skin colour as a viability factor for the Presidential candidate.

Shame on you (White HRC Supportering) Americans, G-D you Americans (yes-I'm white and I can say it too)!

Clinton's argument about swing states is hollow. Obama has won in potential swing states like Missouri, Colorado, Virginia, Wisconsin, Minnesota, etc. In Michigan, Clinton could barely get more than half of the vote when she was the only major candidate on the ballot.

Clinton has won several important swing states...in the Democratic primaries. Kerry and Gore won those states, too, and other Democrats before them, but this is hardly a guarantee of winning in the fall. The results of a Democrat running against a Democrat say nothing about how either of those Democrats may match up against a Republican.

Democrats have made their decision about who they think looks strongest in the fall, and Clinton is merely holding on now in hopes of forcing Obama to pay her mounting debts.

Swoosie--you are so right on. Race is THE CARD that Obama plays most efficiently. All the while he is clearly the racist. The world is flat.

Obama and his crew will never "rehab" me into voting for him. If Hillary is not on that ticket, I won't trust him with the country.

It is so interesting to see how every single time Clinton wins one big, that old race card is pulled out of the deck to demean her. Why is that? I think it must be that the OBama team does this to distract from the truth about him. He is more polarizing than they want to supers to believe. The race card freaks out the typical left-wing of the party. Doesn't matter how it is played, but when it is played, they jump and freak out and run. Obama's team is expert with the card. Who else could demean Hillary, Bill, Ferraro, Stephenopoulous, Gibson, Maggie Williams, all the republicans, and so on and so forth. It is a big problem, this race card. I know that Obama is the racist who plays it best and he was taught by the master---Rev. Wright. The bigot supreme.

Hillary Clinton is ONLY still in this nomination