sorry for my jumbled opening. it should have read:

chris: realizing that you can't answer every post here, will you please answer the criticism that you misquoted clarke by failing to quote shieffer's interjection?

sorry for my jumbled opening; i'll blame the computer. it should have read:
chris, realizing that you can't answer every post here, will you please answer the criticism that you misquoted clarke by failing to quote shieffer's interjection?

sorry for my jumbled opening; i'll blame the computer. it should have read:
chris, realizing that you can't answer every post here, will you please answer the criticism that you misquoted clarke by failing to quote shieffer's interjection?

chris: realizing that you can't answer every post here, will you please answer the criticism that you misquoted clarke by combining about misquoting clarke by failing to quote shieffer's interjection?

a few reasons to respond:
because when objectively judged using the accepted, common rules of english useage AND the stated policies of The Washington Post and most other newspapers with any integrity remaining, the clear conclusion is that you absolutely misquoted clarke -- and to a substantive degree.

your quotation of clarke -- the quote that ends with him saying that he doesn't think getting shot down in a fighter-plane is a qualification to be president -- is a factual innacuracy that unquestionably misrepresented the tone, context and FACTS of reality.

look at what really happened: clarke is explaining that mccain is to be honored and thanked for his allegiance to his country but that his military record does not include any experience dealing with diplomats and dictators. THEN, shieffer interrupts that mccain DID get shot down in a fighter plane. THEN, clarke answers -- shieffer's comments using shieffer's own words.

your quote, however, has clarke speaking with no interruption. it's open-quote, then clarke going off on mccain, then closed-quote. now, a reporter MIGHT be legitimately excused for the minor tidying-up of a quote (when the purpose is clarity).

but not acknowledging schieffer's interjection was not a matter of helping the reader understand but succeeded only in creating a fictious scene in the minds of readers. this story quotes clarke quoting the interviewer -- but never telling the reader where clarke's words originated. the tactic is common among political pack-hacks.
reporter: leading democrat, do you believe john mccain could be a good president based on his experience beging captured and tortured by enemies of our country?
leading democrat: I don't know that mccain would be a good president based on his experience being captured...
REPORT: democrats question mccain's ability to be good president based on his ability to withstand being captured and tortured by u.s. enemies!
PACK REPORTS: Democrats scorched for questioning suffering of Mccain as pow!!!

recognize it?

chris, your duty to explain your misquote here is no less important than your paper correcting its honest mistakes. how is it that "smythe" spelled "smith" is important enough to be corrected but that a demonstrable misquote (see the video tape) concerning the election of the president is not?

"no name" you write:

"Obama and his supporters will try to distroy anything that is good about America...for the self seeking urge to gain power...slowly they will be exposed for what they are."

1) There is not all that much good about America any more, after so many years of criminality and ineptitude in Washington, with Bush and Cheney being the icing on the cake gone bad. Our democracy is a farce, our fighting for freedom has been mocked and now exposed for what it is, and that has little to do with freedom for other peoples. I love the US but we are no longer an example to the rest of the world. We are going downhill.

2) I don't understand the rest of your gibberish. Don't you have something to say that is less ambiguous and actually makes a point?

3) We all frequently make spelling mistakes when writing here, but they are usually attributable to keys being close to or adjacent to one another on the keyboard. This is not the case with "e" and "i". You should have written dEstroy, and not dIstroy.

I assume you could be one of those unfortunate, manipulated souls who have ended up doing military service to "better" your life. Use the opportunity to get a basic education. I am not at all trying to be mean or insensitive.

4) I will re-write your silly polemic in a way it would at least ring true:

"America, albeit with dwindling supporters around the world (yes, there are actually less dictators today willing to dance to our tune) will try to destroy anything that is good about democracy and equality in the world...for the self-seeking urge to gain power...slowly it will be exposed for what it is."

Obama and his supporters will try to distroy anything that is good about America...for the self seeking urge to gain power...slowly they will be exposed for what they are.

Back to the military here is a copy and paste from a BBC article about the attitude toward confrontation with Iran. Note Mike Mullen is currently our top ranking military officer. I for one admire military people capable of looking beyond the choice of using "might" instead of diplomacy. Had we had this type of thinking we could possibly have avoided the catastrophic situations Afghanistan and Iraq, at least; we could have tried.

...He said: "I believe [Iran is] still on a path to get nuclear weapons and I think that's something that needs to be deterred."

Iranian leaders say their nuclear intentions are peaceful
He added: "My position with regard to the Iranian regime hasn't changed. They remain a destabilising factor in the region.
"But I'm convinced that the solution still lies in using other elements of national power to change Iranian behaviour, including diplomatic, financial and international pressure."
He called for dialogue between the US and Tehran.

It does not mean you are a wimp because you prefer diplomacy and saving lives to brute force. On the contrary, considering the pressure from above and the from the collective military mindset remaining level-headed and speaking up for diplomacy takes more strength than ever.

Stone, don't be so hard on Chris & the media. He has a job and his boss is one of the wealthy. He has to produce what is expected of him so he himself can continue paying the bills.

Some media does get less stuck though, but the limits within which honest reporting is possible is very restricted. And the few that usually dare to write facts are ignored, ridiculed or squashed, according to the needs of those in power. The more people listen to honest journalists the more harsh the punishments meted out.

And we are so complacently stuck in our tunnel vision about democracy and freedom and progress we are hardly ready to hear the real truths anyway.

Shame on you Chris Cillizza/Media. Wish Tim was around to discuss this subject.

This is another reason why Americans' hate the media; she could never report the facts.

Stop referring to your self as an Analyst

Defination:

Objective: Not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased: an objective opinion.

Subjective:existing in the mind; belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of thought

Chris, let me know if you and your media friends need a different defination.

No wonder there is a T-shirt

John McCain is not
my drug
of choice

Kevin what makes you think your comment is any more worthy than any other comment, with which I agree or not?

If you come here only to denigrate other people's presence, by your own presence you are self contradictory...in other words; you are a very normal person.

And whether you like it or not, and I admit it is a major problem, our country's voters do not know much about real issues and vote, mostly, according to babble.

Long live the babble, because at least it makes people feel, at this moment in time, they have something to say and someone to listen.....After the elections we will all have learned (once again) it was all futile anyway.

This time in presidential campaigns is known as the 'silly season'.It is no different now.The notion that General Clark's comments play to Senator McCain's strengths is a stretch.The comments made by General Clark were unnecessary but not untrue.By the time the party conventions occur,this subject will have been proven moot.Get a life,people.

There are a couple points I would make.
First, I think your opening statement is misleading. Absolutely nothing Clark said -- or anyone else said -- demeaned in any way McCain's military record. What he said was McCain's admirable and exemplary military record did not translate into presidential or command experience. Period.
Second: Please note that so far (besides the Limbaugh crowd and his ilk, who would davage anything non-conservative) the detractors are all military. Please note that the military refuses to criticize its own even when it is proven that they are wrong.

Ossilot, you are absolutely right in what you say. Remember though the press guys work for the bosses, and the bosses live in the same neighborhoods as the McCains and Bushes and send their kids to the same schools.

There is little real free press and. The big players always refer backing the horse that will come back to their stables.

In any case, what is this big deal about military records all the time? Dropping napalm on Viet Namese children and women before being shot down and INVOLUNTARILY being held prisoner doesn't qualify somebody at all. On the contrary, I would prefer to see a lot less "brass" in Washington.

BTW I lived through the VN war, My brother went, and he went twice. The second time he volunteered. My father went and returning home, the first thing he said was "no way you are going over there..." Both were career military men. My father for the first time ever voted Democrat to try to avoid Bush getting a second term.

Even my brother has said Viet Nam was one of the biggest mistake we ever made. And he has no intention of backing yet more presidential candidates ready to send troops to die for helping the likes of Cheney and Bush fill their pockets.

My father was a high ranking NCO and my brother a full bird colonel. Both men served honorably and as patriots, and both are fed up with the constant lies and indifference with which people like Bush and McCain are willing to see our young die abroad.

The saddest part is, these young men and women are usually bamboozled into believing they are doing it for democracy and freedom when in fact, the only freedom they are fighting for is the freedom of ruthless & wealthy people to exploit other nations.

Come on, Chris. Get some "guts" and call out McCain and his campaign to provide the American public with his military records!!

Be the first to do something right in reporting BOTH sides of this campaign.

So, it's okay to trash Obama's patriotism and religion in the media but when anything is said about McCain's military service, it's a no-no? McCain is running BASED on his military service so it is fair game to discuss by anyone. The media, however, does not want to cover the truth anymore - and that includes Chris Cillizza. Everyone is treating McCain with kid gloves just like they did with Bush. Look what that got us. Wesley Clarke is not part of the Obama campaign and should not be named as such. He's allowed to say whatever he wants and he was NOT attacking McCain. For me, I have absolutely no idea if McCain's military record is valid - how would I? All the media does is protect him and trash Obama for things he doesn't even say or do.

I worked in General Clark's chain of command during the Kosovo crisis. He was well respected. He was an effective manager who get Milovich to quit before we had to deploy ground troops.

The other flag officer supporting Senator Obama, General McPeek is also well respected by his peers in the Air Force. He saved millions of taxpayer dollars helping designing a uniform that airmen appreciated but were forced to abandon after he retired because one of Cheney's old business cronies twisted arms.

Senator Obama has done well to consider which retired flag officers are in his corner.

retired Major Kop E. Khatt

I worked in General Clark's chain of command during the Kosovo crisis. He was not respected. He was a micromanager who got lucky when Milovich quit before we had to deploy ground troops.
The other flag officer supporting Senator Obama, General McPeek is not well respected by his peers in the Air Force. He spent millions of taxpayer dollars designing a uniform that airmen hated and was soon abandoned after he retired.
Senator Obama would do well to consider which retired flag officers are in his corner.

In my opinion anybody trying to gain points by referring to his or her role in the Viet Nam war should be regarded with suspicion.

We don't need any more gung-ho go get 'em at any cost guys at the top of the heap.

I wonder how much napalm McCain managed to drop on women and children before being shot down.....

Oh...what a hero!!!

Chris, I totally agree with you.

I see this could be "the" critical hole that will sink the Obama's Fake Boat. If you try to swiftboat someone without any consistency, then means you are idiot: His Fake Boat will be drifted from now on.

As I said, this Election is 200% Republican Victory.

Chris, I totally agree with you.

I see this could be "the" critical hole that will sink the Obama's Fake Boat. If you try to swiftboat someone without any consistency, then means you are idiot: His Fake Boat will be drifted from now on.

As I said, this Election is 200% Republican Victory.

Chris, I totally agree with you.

I see this could be "the" critical hole that will sink the Obama's Fake Boat. If you try to swiftboat someone without any consistency, then means you are idiot: His Fake Boat will be drifted from now on.

As I said, this Election is 200% Republican Victory.

whoa....hang on here.

First of all, if McCain can use his service record in favor of his bid for the presidency, then so should anyone be allowed to refer to that same record unfavorably.

Secondly, Wes Clark simply stated being shot down does not make McCain automatic presidential material. Well, that's fact. If anyone os voting for McCain there should be other reasons.

Then there is another point of argument. McCain's having been a prisoner of war is often referred to as some sort of definite indication of his patriotism and worthiness as president.

That is not a valid argument either. I empathize with McCain and what he surely had to endure but, let's face it; it was not McCain's choice to act patriotically and remain a prisoner of war. He had nothing to say in the matter. Consequently it can hardly be seen as a patriotic act on his part.

And in the final analysis, who better to speak out objectively about somebody's military record than another military man, and certainly far higher ranked than McCain ever was.

We can not reject those within, or retired from the military whenever they have something to say that doesn't fit into our preconceived opinion about someone. And that is one of the weaknesses of all political campaign for us, because we tend to avoid looking at and listening to any opinion hat doesn't jive with what we want to believe, and to happen.

Play to McCain's STRENGTHS?"

Wot, pray tell, would those be?

This country totters on the brink of collapse and anarchy, and YOU talk about McCain's STRENGTHS ?

WHOSE Kool-Aid are YOU drinking?

A Vietnam Veteran.

Words of Wisdom is a liar. Plain and simple. Your double posts are double lies and you know it. You are pathetic. Obama went to a madrassa and did not learn to be Muslim. He went to Catholic school too. His father was a Muslim. In fact Obama throughout most of his adult life followed no religion until he met Reverend Wright and found Jesus and became a Christian.

You are a liar./

to no name who posted this:
"And I recall that not too long ago the Democrats decided that having had four stars in the Army, finishing as valedictorian at West Point, and being a Rhodes scholar did not qualify one to earn the Democratic nomination for the Presidency."

And who might that be???

And McCain did not fly fighter planes. He flew A4D Skyhawks - nickname Scooters. And he crashed 5 of them in his short stint at flying. People who graduate 4th from the bottom of their class don't get to fly fighter planes in the Navy. This is no b/s this is the record. Check it out for yourself. It is out there in plain sight. He served his country in the service but it certainly doesn't qualify him to be president and remember he sang like a bird to the enemy and his father and grandfather were both admirals-otherwise he probably never would have gotten into Annapolis in the first place. Let us be open and honest about this please

TO Raymond: How typically republican of you. If you don't like the message, shoot the messenger. Have you forgotten how Bush used the same tactic against McCain when he was running in 2000 or what the right did to Tammy Duckworth (double amputee) and what Saxby Chambliss did to Max Cleland. You people are scum, pure and simple scum and the media right along with you

I am amazed Cilliza is given any space whatsoever or credibility. This is about the stupidest article I have ever read. John McCain has no credibility. The media is giving him credibility where it doesn't exist and as usual distorting the comments made by Clark and kudos to Clark for not backing down to these despicable excuses for human beings called the Repuglican Party and the MSM

sad fact is that clark is right on target. obama may have not served in nam, but he did not get shot out of the sky after a few missions. mad dog mc cain was no ace. he was an admiral's son. let the truth out about mad dog. stop the press from appointing mad dog mc cain king. remember the savings and loan scandal. mad dog mc cain was knee deep in that pig f---. no more four more.

Bob Schieffer: "...nor has he [Obama] ridden in a fighter plane and been shot down."

Wesley Clark: "I don't think getting in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to become president."

You intentionally left out that the remark was not gratuitous, but was offered in reply to a criticism. Your calculated omission chages the context to one of an outright personal attack -- my how salacious for an ambulance-chaser such as yourself.

Mr. Cillizza, this business shows you to be a Goddamned liar.

more importantly..americans need to consider the fact that mccain SPENT OVER ONE TENTH OF HIS ADULT LIFE UNDERGOING TORTURE.. and what permanent damage that may have done..

I really hadn't thought about it much, since what General Clark said was pretty innocuous opinion. "McCain's military service alone does not qualify him to be commander in chief." Big deal. What now comes out of this, is the over the top response by both the media and the McCain campaign. Maybe there's something there that they do not want people looking into. I put this in the category of "Whatever you do don't look under the sofa!"

How about it MSM? You gonna take a look?

What exactly are McCain's strengths?

FOR THE LISTENING CHALLENGED:

General Wesley Clark was informing those who never served in the miltary about the chain of command structure in the Armed Services of the United States of America. Senator McCain's position in the miltary was only to carry out the orders of those in his chain of command and to ensure that those under his command knew what was their duties were for a certain operation.

If McCain was serving in the miltary when Clark was Supreme Commander of NATO and was his ship was participating in a NATO exercise, McCain would have had General Clark in his chain of command and McCain would have had to carry out General Clark's orders.

I cannot believe how many people just don't know how to listen.

SHAME ON THOSE WHO QUESTION GENERAL CLARK'S SERVICE AND INTIGRITY. He is the one who saw that an injustice and crimes against humanity was happening in the Balkan's (Kosovo) and he had the strenght of character to take the necessary actions, McCain had never been tested in this way. Has McCain ever had to testify in a war crimes and crimes against humanity trail like Clark did during his run for office, Clark took time off to testify against Slobodan Molosovic (sic).

I dare you to compare McCain's miltary record to Clark's.

GaryL1, John McCain did not crash his plane. He was shot down! His courage thru his ordeal is the validation of his character. Being in war is not direct experience to be president, but Obama does not have that battle experience or military service or any other type of relevant experience to be the chief executive and Commander in Chief. He has never run any business and has been in Federal government less than 4 years. Before that he had 7 years in the Illinois Senate. He has had almost no bills he introduced become law in either his state or federal career.

There was nothing what General Clark said was not true. Maybe, he could have chosen a better way of saying it. The press is still enamored with McCain and is not objective. Gee Chris, I didn't see any shocking reactions like this when a McCain surrogate referred to Obama as a tan John Kerry. Does anyone think this not a bit racist?

McCain brought the Swift-boaters into his camp a week ago. Obama's people announced that they were looking at persons strong on security in the process of vetting VP candidates. Seems to me that this manufactured outrage was a convenient way for the Republicans to get rid of an outstanding VP candidate -- also badly wounded in Vietnam -- whose military credentials far surpass Senator McCain's in terms of leadership, policy, and international expertise. The Columbia Journalism Review was right yesterday in its article: "Attacking" McCain's Military Record
What Wesley Clark Really Said; How the Press Missed It! Apparently Obama did too!

McCain brought the Swift-boaters into his camp a week ago. Obama's people announced that they were looking at persons strong on security in the process of vetting VP candidates. Seems to me that this manufactured outrage was a convenient way for the Republicans to get rid of an outstanding VP candidate -- also badly wounded in Vietnam -- whose military credentials far surpass Senator McCain's in terms of leadership, policy, and international expertise. The Columbia Journalism Review was right yesterday in its article: "Attacking" McCain's Military Record
What Wesley Clark Really Said; How the Press Missed It! Apparently Obama did too!

And I recall that not too long ago the Democrats decided that having had four stars in the Army, finishing as valedictorian at West Point, and being a Rhodes scholar did not qualify one to earn the Democratic nomination for the Presidency.

Any objective listener to Gen. Clark's interview on Face the Press can easily understand he was not calling McCain's patriotism into dispute. He was simply stating an obvious fact. Getting shot down and spending horrific years in prison is not good experience to being President of the U.S. Of course not!! Running for office, representing people, negotiating with others of different points of view, administering large organizations, balancing interests--all of the above are experiences relevant to the job. It's not denigrating what McCain's life experiences to say that. Fortunately most candidates for public office have not been POWs, and it's a fortunate thing for them too. Let's hope we have fewer and fewer when a sensible person gets into office and stops this insane desire to attack every leader, ethnic group, religious organization, country neo-cons happen to hate this month.

Wesley Clark is right. Just because McCain was shot down and imprisoned doesn't imbue him with good judgment to be the commander in chief. Just look at his stupidity regarding Iraq. Questioning the use of imprisonment as an entitlement to commanding is legitimate. Which is NOT to deny that McCain was a supreme patriot who endured a lot for his country. So are the maimed returning from Iraq, and I don't see any of them declaring themselves fit, therefore, to be commander in chief.

Wesley Clark is right. Just because McCain was shot down and imprisoned doesn't imbue him with good judgment to be the commander in chief. Just look at his stupidity regarding Iraq. Questioning the use of imprisonment as an entitlement to commanding is legitimate. Which is NOT to deny that McCain was a supreme patriot who endured a lot for his country. So are the maimed returning from Iraq, and I don't see any of them declaring themselves fit, therefore, to be commander in chief.

Wesley Clark is right. Just because McCain was shot down and imprisoned doesn't imbue him with good judgment to be the commander in chief. Just look at his stupidity regarding Iraq. Questioning the use of imprisonment as an entitlement to commanding is legitimate. Which is NOT to deny that McCain was a supreme patriot who endured a lot for his country. So are the maimed returning from Iraq, and I don't see any of them declaring themselves fit, therefore, to be commander in chief.

Wesley Clark is right. Just because McCain was shot down and imprisoned doesn't imbue him with good judgment to be the commander in chief. Just look at his stupidity regarding Iraq. Questioning the use of imprisonment as an entitlement to commanding is legitimate. Which is NOT to deny that McCain was a supreme patriot who endured a lot for his country. So are the maimed returning from Iraq, and I don't see any of them declaring themselves fit, therefore, to be commander in chief.

The remarks that General Kiss A-- Clark made on national TV are way over the top. As a so called General that got fired because he was not fit to be in command, he might keep his stupid mouth shut. He only got where he is because he was a total Kiss A.
What makes him an authority on anything. It's obvious what he's looking for. He couldn't make it in the last election with his big mouth, so he's trying to demonize McCain to make himself feel good. (Wesley Clark, you are not fit to shine John McCain's shoes.
You might be eating your words when McCain becomes President.

"This controversy was created and fueled by a media unwilling to live up to the basic journalistic standard of accuracy and thoroughness."

"Worse, however, is their insane idea for dealing with Iran. China and Russia have made is clear that any attack on Iran will invite retribution FROM THEM and might lead to a global conflict"

We can take Iran, Russia and China all at the same time. And McCain -- if elected -- will prove it!!!

Just as no one should question the patriotism of a person w/ McCain's service, it is difficult to question the patriotism of a man w/ Obama's credentials who turned his life to public service.
He & McCain are both fundamentally decent men. I do not hold them responsible for foolish remarks of supporters.
OTOH, Clark was a mindlessly devoted Clintonite. She still has her website up urging people to "take it to Denver, etc."
I would not rule out that Clark meant to sabotage Obama. He should be very careful of these people.

Cillizza has no credibility. he offers a doctored quote, does no research on the context of Clark's remarks and basically serves as a McCain shill. Just another lazy media suck-up.

If Mccain is elected we will all live to regret he didn't die in that prison camp. If Mccain is elected he will make Bush look like a piker when it comes to throwing away American lives in useless wars. He is no good and we better recognize it now. People need to be told exactly who and what he is.

A lot of candidates have things in their lives that none of us would ever want to go through. It is like someone who had cancer or a child murdered and trying to use it as something that qualifies them or as a reason they can never be criticized. The fact is "MCCAIN WAS A COMPLETE DISGRACE AS A MILITARY MAN" plain and simple and the record is there to prove it. He graduated 896 out of a class of 899. Was an admitted drunk, confirmed by everybody who knew him. He was a drunk all the way through his academy years and in the Navy. Again confirmed by everyone including friends who knew him. He got by on who his family was, otherwise he would have been thrown out of the naval academy with out a doubt. He was a number one screw up from the moment he entered the academy till he was shot down. He was not to be trusted or depended on by his fellow soldiers and that is the F'n truth. This is all fact, ON THE RECORD for all to see. Yet we are not supposed to be allowed to even talk about it? Is this some kind of F'n joke or what. This guy is running to president of the united states and he is a first class screw up in every part of his life. Hell, he isn't even very smart. What the fu@k is going on here. If you don't want to vote for Obama because he is black just say it. But don't try to pretend John Mccain is in the least qualified to be president because he isn't. Quite the contrary, he is dangerous and one of the biggest threats to our country we have even been presented with. With Bush we just didn't know but with Mccain it is all there for us to see.

Wes Clark's comments on McCain's objective rediness, shows that the Clinton's too are starting the general election.
Clark is their guy and this is how they play hard ball. They know to win the nominee will have to go on the hard offensive and define McCain, who has gotten a free ride from the press.
The Obama campaign needs to take notes, as the McCain camp goes wild and the candidate goes into a hisssy fit, again.

Also its clear Gen. Clare will not retreat on his assessment of McCains mixed record.
General Clarke as an American hero, a Nato leader and superior officer to Capt McCain. He has a clear duty, the power of resume and sucessful military record to tell it for real when it comes to Mr. McCain.
This needs to play out, a bit before the conventions, as it goes to the heart of fitness, rediness and judgement.

Chris - I don't understand how you can honestly leave that doctored quote in this story. That is not a contiguous quote, yet you present it as it is. No elipses, even, to at least demonstrate there was content removed and another speaker?

At this point it is rank dishonesty and I am severely disappointed in you. Forget this issue, which like all the rest will go away in a couple days. I am disappointed in you for your lack of journalistic integrity.

This hullaballoo created by the mainstream media over Clark's reasonable analysis is what is known as the GREAT MEDIA DISCONNECT. The MSM press pack is an echo chamber, reinforcing its prejudices.

It despises Clark because he had the temerity to actually quickly win a war that stopped a genocide in the birthplace to two world wars (without getting any allied soldiers killed) -- at the same time the media was persuing Monicagate and had to dismiss the amazing victory in the Balkans as wag the dog.

They created the McCain "brand" of foreign policy expertise and will ferociously defend it from any logical questioning.

I'll grant all of the statements about McCain's war record. He was a brave prisoner of war. But does being a prisoner of war qualify you to be President? That's the question Wes Clark raised--not, "Was McCan an honorable man?"

We have a similar problem in our congressinal district--2nd, in Minnesota. We have a strutting peacock called John Kline. Lt.Col. in the Marines. Flew choppers in Viet Nam. Carried the nuclear "football" for Carter and Reagan. All honorable things--but do they qualify Kline to be a congressman? No.

Bush's people said that McCain had an illegitimate black baby, and McCain's been flattering, supporting and emulating him for years. I can't help but remember that when McCain pronounces himself shocked and appalled by Clark pointing out that being a fighter pilot and a POW have nothing to do with being a good president.

I am not a veteran and I don't intend to speak disrespectfully of John McCain's service. But he does seem to have been a real wild-card with very poor judgement. I am very sorry that he underwent that terrible experience in that sad sad war in VietNam. But I don't think bombing Iran will make up for losing in VietNam.

I wince when he uses his 5 1/2 years and broken arms as a defense against any and all criticism. And when he combines that with "bomb Iran" and "never surrender" (to whom?) and "follow him [bin Laden] to the gates of hell," I think, this guy is way too hot. He's going to crash another plane, and this time it's going to be the United States.

General Clark is correct. McCain's particular experience in war doesn't fit him to be President of the United States.

I am so glad people are actually reading the article that misquote's General Clark. As a veteran of 20 years in the military, i dont think i am qualified to be president just because i served and neither should John McCain. Chris I thought you were a better reporter than this but i guess its ok to excuse McCain and the associates of the past. No One said that service was not honorable, so get off McCain's "___" and start reporting the news and not he is a HERO all the time

I heard the whole coments made by General Clark and what these nazi republican propaganda talk show hosts are saying is completely wrong. Hey im impressed and saddend by what Senator McCain went through I know i would never have been able to do it. However i do agree that just because he went through it does not automaticly qualify him to be president.

As a Vietnam veteran of multiple tours including 1,000 hours of combat missions, I, like General Clark, do not fall on my knees and start drooling over McCain's war record. Our mission was to capture and otherwise cause damage to the enemy not the other way around. Mr. McCain blew it and was rewarded with a hero's homecoming. The rest of us poor schmucks did our jobs well and were KIA'd or returned home to be released from service in the dead of night then treated like social pariahs. If a war record is going to be used as a credential for presidential qualifications, at least set the bar at some measure of success. McCain's lack of self discipline and ineptness gives me a strong indication that he was one of the twits that flew with the guard channel turned down because "they were never talking to him." McCain's war record is unimpressive and so inept that even the current holder of the office can slither over that bar to claim mission accomplished.

Its Amazing the lengths the MSM will go to coddle cry baby McCain, not attack is far game. If you point out he cant get his facts straight on Iraq, its ageism, if you ask for specifics on his experience you are attacking his military service. If McCain flip flops the media will argue he should be liked by both sides of the issue.
It is really amazing the way the media is covering this election.
Clearly thees rich spoiled reporter biggest concern is there McCain BBQ invites. If Iraq or the economy mattered to them they wouldn't shill for McCain. this is how the media got us into Iraq,by declaring ant criticism of him unpatriotic. and by defending McCain is how they will get us into Iran. Media McCarthism, accuse Dems who speak out of being unpatriotic.
The media has failed the American people.

Obama was LISTED BY A CATHOLIC SCHOOL AS BEING A MUSLIM

Obama's half brother has publicly stated that Obama is a Muslim.

Obama's own campaign has stated that Obama attended a madrassa, however it was not a "radical madrassa" just a regular madrassa in which they taught the Koran and the kids learned other Muslim things like there are 57 states of Islam.

We simply post the facts.

The case is pretty much closed on Obama's Muslim heritage, which is correct, real and true. If the Obama campaign says anything different, they are either being deceptive or outright lying to you.

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Obama was LISTED BY A CATHOLIC SCHOOL AS BEING A MUSLIM

Obama's half brother has publicly stated that Obama is a Muslim.

Obama's own campaign has stated that Obama attended a madrassa, however it was not a "radical madrassa" just a regular madrassa in which they taught the Koran and the kids learned other Muslim things like there are 57 states of Islam.

We simply post the facts.

The case is pretty much closed on Obama's Muslim heritage, which is correct, real and true. If the Obama campaign says anything different, they are either being deceptive or outright lying to you.

.

Not taking anything away from McCain, but compared to Wesley Clark he was a nobody in the service. He was a commander in the Navy during his residence at the Hotel Hilton. That compares to being a major or a Lt. Colonel in the army. Wesley Clark was NATO Commander and a Four Star General, who eats Navy Commanders for breakfast. Clark knew how to command, McCain was just learning. Yes, he was promoted to Captain before he retired but still just learning about the BIG decisions.

John McCain's grandfather was an Admiral! John McCain's father was an Admiral! John McCain was a POW after admitting making mistakes and getting himself shotdown so all the above MUST make him a Hero!

Personaly I think McCain is running his whole campaign on his war record. If his war record collapses so does he. No reason why we can't question it though.

Read how Hero John McCain got his Medals.
Navy Awarded McCain Medals For Valor Without Required Eyewitnesses

Presidential candidate John McCain is being hailed by the press as a genuine "American war hero" and says he has the medals to prove it.

For 5 ½ years as a POW (three of which he says were spent in solitary confinement), the U.S. Navy awarded McCain a Silver Star, a Legion of Merit for Valor, a Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars, two Commendation medals plus two Purple Hearts and a dozen service medals.

Former POW McCain claims his experience as a prisoner of the communists better qualifies him to be President of the United States. He has forged that experience along with his military record deeply into his campaign.

But, Navy regulations say two eyewitnesses are required for any award of heroism and McCain has none for the valor awards he received.

Are McCain's Awards Heroism Valid?

The following narrative is what the Navy Said McCain did from October 27, 1967 to December 8, 1967 to earn a Silver Star.

THE SECRETARY OF THE NAVY
Washington D.C. 20350
The president of the United States takes pleasure in
presenting the SILVER STAR MEDAL to
COMMANDER JOHN S. MCCAIN III
UNITED STATES NAVY

CITATION:

For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity while interned as Prisoner of War in North Vietnam from 27 October to 8 December 1967. His captors, completely ignoring international agreements, subjected him to extreme mental and physical cruelties in an attempt to obtain military information and false confessions for propaganda purposes. Through his resistance to those brutalities, he contributed significantly toward the eventual abandonment of harsh treatment by the North Vietnamese, which was attracting international attention. By his determination, courage, resourcefulness, and devotion to duty, he reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of Naval Service and the United States Armed Forces.

However, John McCain's actual behavior from October to December 1967 is quite different from the Navy's version of events.

On October 27, 1967, four days after being shot down, McCain called for a North Vietnamese guard. He told the officer, "O.K., I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital." -U.S. News and World Report, May 14, 1973 article written by former POW John McCain

McCain was taken to Gai Lam military hospital. (U.S. government documents) "Demands for military information were accompanied by threats to terminate my medical treatment if I [McCain] did not cooperate. Eventually, I gave them my ship's name and squadron number, and confirmed that my target had been the power plant." Page 193-194, Faith of My Fathers by John McCain

On Nov. 9, 1967, Hanoi press began quoting the seriously injured McCain giving specific military information.

One report dated read, "To a question of the correspondent, McCain answered: 'My assignment to the Oriskany, I told myself, was due to serious losses in pilots, which were sustained by this aircraft carrier (due to its raids on the North Vietnam territory - VNA) and which necessitated replacements.

"'From 10 to 12 pilots were transferred like me from the Forrestal to the Oriskany.

"'Before I was shot down, we had made several sorties. Altogether, I made about 23 flights over North Vietnam.'"

In that report, McCain was quoted describing the number of aircraft in his flight, information about rescue ships, and the order of which his attack was supposed to take place.

Through the Freedom of Information Act, the U.S. Veteran Dispatch acquired a declassified Department of Defense (DOD) transcript of an interview prominent French television reporter Francois Chalais had with McCain.

Chalais told of his private interview with POW McCain in a series titled Life in Hanoi, which was aired in Europe. In the series, Chalais said his meeting with McCain was "a meeting which will leave its mark on my life."

"My meeting with John Sidney McCain was certainly one of those meetings which will affect me most profoundly for the rest of my life. I had asked the North Vietnamese authorities to allow me to personally interrogate an American prisoner. They authorized me to do so.

"When night fell, they took me---without any precautions or mystery--to a hospital near the Gia Lam airport reserved for the military. (passage omitted) The officer who receives me begins: I ask you not to ask any questions of political nature. If this man replies in a way unfavorable to us, they will not hesitate to speak of 'brainwashing' and conclude that we threatened him.

"'This John Sidney McCain is not an ordinary prisoner. His father is none other than Admiral Edmond John McCain, commander in chief of U.S. naval forces in Europe. (passage omitted)'"

". . . Many visitors came to talk to me [John McCain]. Not all of it was for interrogation. Once a famous North Vietnamese writer-an old man with a Ho Chi Minh beard-came to my room, wanting to know all about Ernest Hemingway . . . Others came to find out about life in the United States.

"They figured because my father had such high military rank that I was of the royalty or governing circle . . . One of the men who came to see me, whose picture I recognized later, was Gen. Vo Nguyen Giap, the hero of Dienbienphu." U.S. News and World Report, May 14, 1973 article written by former POW John McCain

December 1967, Vietnamese doctors operate (early December) on McCain's Leg. Later that month, six weeks after he was shot down, McCain was taken from the hospital and delivered to Room No. 11 of "The Plantation" into the hands of two other U.S. POWs, Air Force majors George "Bud" Day and Norris Overly. They helped further nurse him along until he was eventually able to walk by himself. --Faith of My Fathers by John McCain
Read retired Army Col. David Hackworth's opinion of Sen. McCain's medals.

Agree with Wes Clark and the Independents comments here. Sorry, getting shot down and suffering at the hands of your captors is not a qualifier for being President. But as usual
our missing in action know-nothing faux-balanced media allows others to mischaracterize the remarks.
Sounds like 2000 and 2004 coming all over again. So Obama calls it a losing issue. He knows the media too well.

Thank you Mr Clark for bringing up McCain's phoney hero war record. A little about McCain that people need to know about....
John Sidney McCain III entered the United States Naval Academy at Annapolis, Maryland in 1954. Young McCain wanted to become an admiral. He planned to be the "first son and grandson of four star admirals" to achieve such a distinction. But that was not to be. McCain III possessed none of the innate character and discipline traits that helped mold his father and grandfather into great military leaders.

His father, John S. "Junior" McCain, and grandfather, John S. McCain, Sr., were famous four-star Admirals in the U.S. Navy. His father commanded U.S. forces in Europe before becoming commander of American forces fighting in Vietnam. His grandfather commanded naval aviation at the Battle of Okinawa in 1945. Both men became highly influential in U.S. Navy operations.

At the Academy, aside being known as a "rowdy, raunchy, underachiever" who resented authority, Midshipman McCain became infamous as a leader among his fellow midshipmen for organizing "off-Yard activities" and hard drinking parties. Robert Timberg wrote in his book, The Nightingale's Song, that "being on liberty with John McCain was like being in a train wreck."

McCain's grades were "marginal." He drew so many demerits for breaking curfew and other discipline issues that he graduated fifth from the bottom of the class of 1958. Despite his low "class standing," and no doubt because of the influence of his family of famous Admirals, McCain was leap-frogged ahead of more qualified applicants and granted a coveted slot to be trained as a navy pilot.

Good Party Animal - Bad Pilot:

He spent the next two and a half years as a "naval aviator in training" at Naval Air Station Pensacola in Florida and Naval Air Station Corpus Christi in Texas, flying A-1 Skyraiders.

While a pilot trainee, McCain continued to party hard. He drove a Corvette and dated an exotic dancer named "Marie the Flame of Florida." Timberg wrote that McCain "learned to fly at Pensacola, though his performance was below par, at best good enough to get by. He liked flying, but didn't love it."

McCain Lost Five Military Aircraft

McCain, the "below par" pilot, eventually lost 5 military aircraft, the first during a training flight in 1958 when he plunged into Corpus Christi Bay while trying to land. The Navy ignored the crash and graduated McCain in 1960.

While deployed in the Mediterranean, the hard partying McCain lost a second aircraft. Timberg described the crash: "Flying too low over the Iberian Peninsula, he took out some power lines which led to a spate of newspaper stories in which he was predictably identified as the son of an admiral."

Unscathed, McCain returned to Pensacola Station where he was promoted to flight instructor for Naval Air Station Meridian in Mississippi. The airfield at Meridian, McCain Field, was named in honor of McCain's grandfather.

In 1964 McCain became involved with Carol Shepp, a model from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, he had met at Annapolis. They were married in Philadelphia on July 3, 1965.

Flight instructor McCain lost a third aircraft while flying a Navy trainer solo to Philadelphia for an Army-Navy football game. Timberg wrote that McCain radioed, "I've got a flameout" before ejecting at one thousand feet. McCain parachuted onto a beach moments before his plane slammed into a clump of trees.

The Navy dismissed the crash as "unavoidable" and assigned McCain to the aircraft carrier USS Forrestal in December 1966, which was patrolling the Mediterranean Sea and Atlantic Ocean. In Spring 1967, the Forrestal was assigned to join the Operation Rolling Thunder bombing campaign against North Vietnam.

McCain lost his fourth plane on board the Forrestal on July 29, 1967 when a rocket inadvertently slammed into his bomb laden jet. McCain escaped, but the explosions that followed killed 134 sailors. McCain was transferred from the badly damaged Forrestal to the USS Oriskany. Shortly afterwards, on Oct. 26, 1967, he was shot down and captured by the Vietnamese.

Post-POW Years: Political Ambition and a New, Young, Rich Wife

Upon his release from North Vietnam and return to the United States in 1973, McCain reunited with his wife, Carol, who had been permanently crippled in a car accident while he was a POW.

Still yearning to become an admiral, McCain enrolled in the National War College at Fort McNair in Washington, D.C. and underwent physical therapy in order to fly again. The Navy excused his permanent disabilities and reinstated him to flight status, effectively positioning him for promotion.

Timberg described McCain's advancement: "in the fall of 1974, McCain was transferred to Jacksonville as the executive officer of Replacement Air Group 174, the long-sought flying billet at last a reality. A few months later, he assumed command of the RAG, which trained pilots and crews for carrier deployments. The assignment was controversial, some calling it favoritism, a sop to the famous son of a famous father and grandfather, since he had not first commanded a squadron, the usual career path."

While Executive Officer and later as Squadron Commander McCain used his authority to arrange frequent flights that allowed him to carouse with subordinates and "engage in extra-marital affairs."

This was a violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice rules against adultery and fraternization with subordinates. But, as with all his other past behaviors, McCain was never penalized; instead he always got away with his transgressions.

Timberg wrote, "Off duty, usually on routine cross-country flights to Yuma and El Centro, John started carousing and running around with women. To make matters worse, some of the women with whom he was linked by rumor were subordinates . . . At the time the rumors were so widespread that, true or not, they became part of McCain's persona, impossible not to take note of."

In early 1977, Admiral Jim Holloway, Chief of Naval Operations promoted McCain to captain and transferred him from his command position "to Washington as the number-two man in the Navy's Senate liaison office. McCain was promptly given total control of the office. It wasn't long before the "fun loving and irreverent" McCain had turned the liaison office into a "late-afternoon gathering spot where senators and staffers, usually from the Armed Services and Foreign Relations committees, would drop in for a drink and the chance to unwind."

In 1979, while attending a military reception in Hawaii, McCain met and fell in love with Cindy Lou Hensley, 17 years his junior, who was the daughter of James W. Hensley, a wealthy Anheuser-Busch distributor from Phoenix, Arizona. McCain filed for and obtained an uncontested divorce from his wife in Florida on April 2, 1980 and promptly married Cindy on May 17, 1980.

He resigned from the Navy in 1981 and went to work for his father-in-law in Phoenix; where he used the opportunity to make powerful and wealthy friends in Arizona including banker Charles Keating and Duke Tully, the editor-in-chief of the Arizona Republic. Keating was later convicted of fraud, racketeering, and conspiracy and Tully was disgraced for concocting a phony military record of combat in Korea and Vietnam including medals for heroism.

McCain ran for Arizona's First Congressional District in 1982. McCain won the congressional seat. In 1987 McCain was elected to the Senate.

Seems to me Clark was forced out of his position in the Bosnia fiasco (in which our troops are still there) Was he ever wounded? a prisoner of war? Just an empty suit who spins the bs of Obama> Maybe he married well as old General Haig did. Shame on him. Plus, wasn't he ashamed of his heritage and kept it hidden? Sort of like Albright? Hypocrits, both. They had a great heritage and McCain will make sure there will always be an Israel.

i guess Wesley Clark and his Democ"rat"ic allies never saw the movie PT Boat 109.

VJ Machiavelli
http://www.vjmachiavelli.blogspot.com

"If All McCain has to offer is his resume the American people have a right to ask "What have you done for me lately. McCain should be admired and praised for his service, but his service alone does not necessarily make him capable of handling the broad range of issues that America faces, issues far beyond the Iraq War..."

What has Barack Obama done for ME lately?
What has Barack Obama EVER done of ANY significance? What exactly makes Barack Obama qualified to formulate ANY foreign or domestic policy?

Barack Obama has NOTHING in his resume, including military service to his country. Get a grip.

"If All McCain has to offer is his resume the American people have a right to ask "What have you done for me lately. McCain should be admired and praised for his service, but his service alone does not necessarily make him capable of handling the broad range of issues that America faces, issues far beyond the Iraq War..."

What has Barack Obama done for ME lately?
What has Barack Obama EVER done of ANY significance? What exactly makes Barack Obama qualified to formulate ANY foreign or domestic policy?

Barack Obama has NOTHING in his resume, including military service to his country. Get a grip.

You can't set 1 standard for McCain & think people aren't gonna apply the same standard to Obama.

Side by side, using the same standard, Obama is a quisling. A nobody. A wannabe.
Only fools are fooled into not getting that.

In this election, the media reminds me of sportscasters trying to hang onto the audience in a 20-1 blowout at the top of the 8th. This issue could easily be cleared up by framing Gen. Clark's comment in the form of a question: "Is riding in a fighter jet and being shot down qualify somebody to be president?". I suspect even the sanest of partisans would have to truthfully answer no. This has less to do about presidential qualifications than pundits' paychecks.

General Clark did not question McCain's military service. He merely observed, with justification, flying a plane, being shot down and taken prisoner does not, in itself, enhance a person's ability to be commander-in-chief. This should be patently clear to anyone who uses reason or common sense. Of course, as Al Gore observes in "The Assault on Reason," Republicans in recent years, especially during the Bush-Cheney administration, have essentially declared war on reason.

Thousands of pilots flying in a morally justified war, World War II, were shot down and taken prisoner. These men were truly brave, patriotic and had distinguished military records. But does such an experience make a person more qualified to be commander in chief?

I think this was all General Clark was saying. Barack should not have repudiated his comments and doing so shows he is becoming increasingly at odds with the ostensible progressive credentials, based on reason, he offered as a candidate for the Democratic nomination.

While everyone wants to dissect McCain's time as a POW, it is the time AFTER his repatriation that ought to be considered to discern qualifications the make him fit to be president. No held no major commands, never got into the command at sea career line, and, since he was mostly shore assignments, it should be noted that he also didn't do much that required administrative capability. His command of a training squadron was apparently a leadership success, but doesn't demonstrate the first point of admin or logistics. His main function prior to retiring was as a congressional liaison, where he took part in yet another act of insubordination by the independent navy times in helping procure a carrier that Carter didn't want and believed we didn't need. Given that Carter WAS a command at sea officer, with a background in Engineering, and significant experience in maintaining a navy, it would seem he was the better qualified to make that decision. (It is pages of boring stuff to lay out the pros and cons of buying Theodore Roosevelt, the only carrier ordered in Carter's term)

One set of characteristics from his POW days, possibly reinforced their, do pertain to a president: He is stubborn, head strong, uncompromising and as self confident as the Decider himself. THOSE PROVEN CHARACTERISTICS we most certainly don't need.

Ahh Chris doing what you do best, repeating conventional wisdom.

Look at it this way. If McCain were a physician, say a neurologist and I was considering him for some medical procedure that required him to performed some delicate, skilled procedure on myself or a loved one. And if I became aware up on his academic record and discovered he graduated at the bottom of his class at Annapolis, than without even checking his medical school records- I would reject him, even if he had received ok grades at a mediocre medical school because I would assume that if he got into such a school it would have been because of - his family connections.
Same thing if he were a lawyer or an Architect in each case I would reject him. And If I had been told he had been a war hero, and spent 7 years as a prisoner of war- I would have admired him for courage, but still would still reject him as a skilled practitioner.
I have trouble seeing how some one who would have insufficient aptitude to be a Doctor, Lawyer or architect, would have sufficient aptitude to president of the most complicated, and powerful country in the history of the world.
Come on folks we just had one of these (still do!)
L.L.

Demeaning a Silver Star, a Legion of Merit for Valor, a Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars, two Commendation Medals, two Purple Hearts, and 23 combat missions only much makes the attackers as low as the Swift Boaters who took out John Kerry, and is the ultimate insult to every decorated combat veteran. Nothing like a bunch of ingrates pissing on somebody who has bled for them.

Well. The update got it right. Another case of the Obama campaign apologizing much too quickly for someone making an accurate statement. If McCain thinks that was an attack on his reputation, he better get tough quick.

I think Clark is a pansy, but he's got a point. Shame on the media and CC for portraying this as an attack on McCain's service. All he did was question McCain's exploitation of his service in his run for the president. Frankly, his service has nothing to do with being a good president.

When the Republicans attacked Kerry in a highly orchestrated attack on his war record, the media happily repeated the attacks and publicly asked whether the libel was true. Now, when Democrats raise legitimate issues about how McCain portrays his service, the media sides again with Republicans.

Shameful...

General Wesley Clark's blunt assessment of how John McCain's military service enhanced his presidential qualifications provides some much needed perspective to counter the assumptions that we presented with every day.

The only people who are 'shocked' by these the General's comments are politicians and media personalities that are too busy exchanging common assumptions and ideas to spend very much time thinking for themselves.

John McCain flew 23 combat missions (an estimated 20-25 hours over enemy territory). The U.S. Navy awarded McCain III, the son of an admiral, a Silver Star, a Legion of Merit for Valor, a Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars, two Commendation medals plus two Purple Hearts and a dozen service medals.

On John McCain's 23rd mission over North Vietnam his plane was shot down by a surface-to-air missile. McCain ejected from the plane breaking both arms and a leg in the process and subsequently parachuted into Truc Bach Lake near Hanoi. After being pulled from the lake by the North Vietnamese, McCain was bayoneted in his left foot and shoulder and struck by a rifle butt. He was then transported to the Hoa Lo Prison, also known as the Hanoi Hilton.

On McCain's fourth day of being denied medical treatment, slapped, and threatened with death by his captors. They were demanding military information in exchange for medical treatment. McCain broke and told his interrogator,"O.K., I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital.", as reported by McCain in the U.S. News and World Report, May 14, 1973 article that he authored.

It was then that the communist learned that McCain III's father was Admiral John S. McCain, the soon-to-be commander of all U.S. Forces in the Pacific. The Vietnamese rushed McCain III to Gai Lam military hospital (U.S. government documents), a medical facility normally off-limits to U.S. POW. By Nov. 9, 1967 (U.S. government documents) Hanoi press was quoting McCain III describing his mission including the number of aircraft in his flight, information about rescue ships, and the order of which U.S. attacks would take place. While in still in North Vietnam's military hospital, McCain III gave an interview to prominent French television reporter Francois Chalais for a series titled Life in Hanoi. Chalais' interview with McCain III was aired in Europe. Vietnamese doctors operated on McCain's leg in early December, 1967. Six weeks after he was shot down, McCain was taken from the hospital and delivered to a U.S. POW camp, In May of 1968, McCain III allowed himself to be interviewed by two North Vietnamese generals at separate times.", as reported in May 14, 1973 by former POW John McCain.

On June 5, 1969, the New York Daily News reported in a article headlined "Reds Say POW Songbird Is Pilot Son of Admiral, " . . . Hanoi has aired a broadcast in which the pilot son of United States Commander in the Pacific, Adm. John McCain, purportedly admits to having bombed civilian targets in North Vietnam and praises medical treatment he has received since being taken prisoner . . ."

In 1970, McCain III agreed to an interview with Dr. Fernando Barral, a Spanish psychiatrist who was living in Cuba at the time. The meeting between Barral and McCain III (which was photographed by the Vietnamese) took place away from the prison at the office of the Committee for Foreign Cultural Relations in Hanoi (declassified government document). During the meeting, POW McCain sipped coffee and ate oranges and cakes with the Cuban.

While talking with Barral, McCain III further seriously violated the military Code of Conduct by failing to evade answering questions "to the utmost of his ability" when he, according government documents, helped Barral by answering questions in Spanish, a language McCain had learned in school. The interview was published in the in January 1970.

Many other captured soldiers and airmen preferred death to providing less aid to the enemy than John McCain. His collaboration can be understood, but not excused, as the reaction of a privileged young man to very harsh treatment, who owed his captors his life.

Did he come through his trials of war and imprisonment with values fortified and ready to make the right decisions for America?

Many of us with a bit of a memory, remember how John McCain acquitted himself when the Savings and Load scandal put his friends and family at risk. Did he do the right thing for all Americans or his best to protect himself?

So, don't judge General Wesley Clark too harshly. He is thinking for himself. His friends in the Obama campaign should not mindlessly reject General Clark's opinions. General Clark is not Rev. Wright. Obama must understand and accept a diversity of opinions from well-meaning, supportive, experienced public servants.

All you had to do was include what Wesley Clark said about McCain's service on Face the Nation:
http://securingamerica.com/node/2993
"I certainly honor his service as a prisoner of war. He was a hero to me and to hundreds of thousands and millions of others in Armed Forces as a prisoner of war."

McCain wasn't sullying McCain's service record, but he WAS pointing out the obvious. Being a POW is not an automatic pass to being elected President. If it were, we might as well elect Orson Swindle or any of the other POWs. There are many people I admire, but that doesn't mean I want them to be President. How about you?

There is no "strength" in McCain's military record. Read page 188 of his autobiography, "Faith of My Fathers."

His incompetence led him to lose his jet, by his own admission. He is a failed warrior, as was his father and grandfather before him.

Clark popped the balloon. McCain, married to the Mob, has neither grace, dignity, nor honor.

Clark is right. Being a lousy pilot is not a prerequisite for President.

Only a military person could say that. I don't think I'm some hero or Qualify to be President just because I make it back from Baghdad.

The simple task of flying a plane, McCain couldn't even do that without getting shut down.

make that UNTRUE in my previous post

"What exactly, did General Clark say, that isn't true?"

Perhaps he didn't say anything true, but who is he arguing with?

Hear, Hear General Clark!

Five years in a POW camp is tough but of, and in itself, it is not a free ticket to the presidency. Supporters of McShame do him no service when they claim that is why the Old Fart ought to be our President.

As for Wesley Clark, I think its a trail balloon. Can he stand the headwind that his comments have generated? If so he proves himself worthy of being a Veep. A candidate for Veep needs to be the "bad cop" to the "good cop" of the ticket's Presidential candidate.

"And yet you Obama supporters excoriated President Clinton and ridiculed him as being a racist for stating the "obvious" when he merely mentioned the historical fact that Jesse Jackson won the South Carolina Primary twice.

The concepts of irony and hypocrisy are foreign to the cult, aren't they?"

What is your point?
That Clark is a racist too? That Clark is anti-military? That Clark was wrong for "denigrating" McCain's military service?

Perhaps you need familiarize yourself with the concept of "analogy", because there is scant similarity between the statements of Clinton and Clark (who was, "ironically", an ardent supporter of Hillary Clinton).

Clinton was obviously attempting to minimize Obama's SC victory by bringing up Jesse Jackson. Sure, it was true, but why did Clinton consider Jackson's win significant in terms of the 2008 campaign? If Clinton was simply into quoting history as a way of minimizing Obama's victories, why didn't he compare Obama's Iowa victory to that of Edmund Muskie or Dick Gephardt, two Iowa primary winners who ultimately (like Jackson) went on to lose the nomination? By bringing up the only other black candidate in history to win a presidential primary, Clinton quite clearly was trying to imply that the only reason Obama won South Carolina was because of the large black vote there.

In contrast to Clinton's quote, Clark was asked specifically to comment about the fact that Obama was NOT a war hero fighter pilot who was shot down and kept as a prisoner of war. Quite correctly, Clark stated that none of those facts, while admirable, are relevant to a candidate's ability to run the country. Add to it the fact that McCain himself primarily stakes his claim to the presidency on his status as a war hero, and regularly speaks about how his experience as a POW give him hightened qualifications in matters of war, then you understand why Clark made the statements he did.

Speaking of hypocrisy, it is the height of gall and hypocrisy for Republicans, and especially McCain, to complain about attacks on military service while they (including and especially McCain) sat idly by while John Kerry's volunteer service in Vietnam was attacked solely for political gain.

Republicans have short memories, but fair minded Americans don't. If it was okay to attack Kerry's military service, it is okay to attack McCain's. Plain and simple. Fair is fair.

Of course Obama wants to put an end to Patriotism as an issue, because Obama is the one who's patriotism is in question! He conveniently condems questioning patiotism, but where was he when his hatchet men came up with General Betray Us??? Also, why isn't Iraq, or Afganistan on Obama's upcoming itinery? Obama knows he can't compete with McCain on the issue of patriotism, so he's trying to make it a non issue. Obama has no experience, except to listen to God Damn America for 20 years!

[Dr M.H. Littlejohn] is a second-rate [Dr] and a fourth rate political pundit. Why would anyone give credence to his comments on military or political matters? His accomplishments in both camps are non-existent, and his career is long-gone. He should go home, keep his mouth shut, and like a good [Dr] just fade away. No one wants to hear what he has to say.

"Any day John McCain is able to talk about his military service and remind people of the sacrifices he has made for the country is a good day for the Republican candidate."

See the sacrifice is the thing here, not how little executive experience McCain has or his bad luck getting shot down and holed up almost 6 years as a Vietnamese prisoner. Six years that must of aged him more than others that didn't get captured and imprisoned.

Folks elected Bob Dole as Senator for his big sacrifice in WW II. Millions thought he ought to of been rewarded by being elected President. But even those that voted for someone else (Clinton) for President must of applauded Dole's sacrifice. Its just that some only thought he was entitled to be Senator and not President.

To Earl C:

Who's bent out of shape? I think it's hilairous. Tell me that you can watch that clip where Obama pauses for a moment as he ponders "fifty....seven states" without laughing. You see, it's the pause to ponder that makes it so funny. He took his time to make sure that he would get it right. Remember the Dan Quayle potato vs potatoe thing? Well, this is much funnier than that.

It's not "unjust criticism". It's simply poking fun at a dopey comment by a politician. Obama is fair game just like all the others. Don't get your panties all in a wad about it.

What exactly, did General Clark say, that isn't true?
As usual, the media comes to McCain's aid, as they continue to find anything to attack Obama with.
Funny, how when Kerry was attacked about his unquestionable war heroism, the media just went along with the attacks... and Kerry actually did save lives, unlike McCain.
Why doesn't the media ask the question:
"Was what General Clark said, untrue?"
Nah... better to just attack Obama.
There really is no way, the media is going to let Obama win.

How ironic that part of the McCain campaign's feigned outrage -- against something that General Clark didn't say -- is coming from Bud Day, of all people. Bud Day, for those lucky enough to forget, was one of the original Swift Boaters.

The very same Swift Boaters whom John McCain himself called "dishonest and dishonorable".

Of course, that was all the way back in 2004. John McCain has changed his mind about a lot of things since then ...

Obama Supporters respect McCain's service to our country. But when he says that he sees victory in Iraq in 5 years if he is President by continuing the Bush/Cheney policy on Iraq that is anther story. We already have over 29,978 US wounded, over 2000 UK wounded. Over 4178 US Military deaths, over 176 UK.

Now McCain says its all about the US causalities. Because of modern medical advancements more of our troops are surviving and returning home wounded.

Obama will work with our allies and listen to the people that count so this mess is cleaned up and our troops can come home safely.

I do believe that Bush/Cheney/Rove should be held accountable until our all troops are home safely from Iraq. In the next election cycle Bush/Cheney/Rove will attempt to say that they won Iraq on their watch. They will attempt to blame the Democrats and try to win back control of the Congress and Senate. This is what I mean about them being held accountable so that they can't use the fear tactics that proved so successful in 2004 and you can see them attempt to use it against Obama right now.

This is going to be anther very close election. We all have hopes for Obama in Nov. But hes going to need all the help he can get. That Republican attack machine is going to get really nasty. I hope Gen Wesley Clark will still speak out about the issues as he is one of the Star Democrats that everyone respects and we do need him. Every time a Republican would say the Democrats are weak when it comes to all thing military we could always say "We have Gen. Wesley Clark on our side."

Sometimes it hard to hold ones tongue in dealing with the Republican smear machine online. One of our friends Katherine wants to wake up to a beautiful day in Nov. The McCain/Bush/Cheney nightmare will end. American deserves a beautiful day in Nov.

Obama '08

To Dr. M. A. Littlejohn,

Wow, what a vote of confidence for Adm. Clark, ret. Since you obviously know Wes Clark well enough to be able to evaluate his military credentials and ability, perhaps you can evaluate some of the other military spokespeople for the past eight years. Maybe you want to give currently serving gererals marks also.

Perhaps you are upset with Adm Clark's comments, but you do not have to belittle a distinguished servant of our country. Perhaps your doctorate is earned, perhaps it is not. To push your doctorate in our faces means that you are not above trying to pull rank in your conversations or your day-to-day operations.

Having achieved such a status myself from a pretigious college/university, I am telling you that you have earned the position to be much more charitable in your comments. You may disagree, but don't laud your degree as a hammer.

Posted by: Karl Frisch can kiss my A$$ | June 30, 2008 3:27 PM

Banged-up John McCain and what was left of plane splashed into Truc Bach Lake. A compassionate Vietnamese civilian left his air raid shelter and swam out to McCain. McCain's arm and leg were fractured and he was tangled up in his parachute underwater. He was drowning. The Vietnamese man saved McCain's sorry ass, and yet McCain has nothing but hatred for "the gooks" who allegedly tortured him.

John McCain: War Hero or North Vietnam's Go-To Collaborator ... According to Fernando Barral, a Cuban psychologist who questioned McCain in January 1970, "McCain was "boastful" during their interview and "without ...
dissentmag.wordpress.com/2008/06/15/john-mccain-war-hero-or-north-vietnams-go-to-collaborator/ - 6 hours ago -

1 - Student pilot McCain III lost jet number one in 1958 when he plunged into Corpus
Christi Bay while practicing landings.
2 - Pilot McCain III lost another plane two years later while he was deployed in the Mediterranean. "Flying too low over the Iberian Peninsula, he took out some power lines which led to a spate of newspaper stories in which he was predictably identified as the son of an admiral.
3 - Pilot McCain III lost number three in 1965 when he was returning from flying a Navy trainer solo to Philadelphia for an Army-Navy football game. McCain III radioed, "I've got a flameout" and ejected at one thousand feet. The plane crashed to the ground and McCain III floated to a deserted beach.

He was discharged from the military due to "fratinizing with FEMALE subordinates". He was given the typical"my dady is an admiral" discharge.

"Whereby he was glad USA has a great team in office, men like Colin Powell, Don Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, Condoleezza Rice... all people Clark knew well - including our president George W. Bush; saying we need them there? What differences seven years make, especially when thinking of running for president and or writing book(s)?"

Yeah, because EVERYONE who has changed his mind about Bush is looking to write a book, right?

Littlejohn
You go home and shut your mouth. General Clark was telling the truth. How many sorties did McSame flew? I'm glad that the truth is coming out on his military record. McSame did not do anything other than giving propaganda to benefit his release from prison. He is almost at the bottom of his class when he graduated from the military academy and he became a pilot because his daddy was an admiral. How many people who came above him in his class made it to flight school. He can't even use a computer...give me a break. Good on you General Clerk. Over 4,000 soldiers have died in Iraq and how many more would lose their lives if this clown is president. McSame has no morals - just ask his first wife.

Well, we all know who Bob Schieffer is voting for ... Chris, I agree with the other posters who wrote that you didn't give the right context in your summary. You make it sound as if Clark attacked McCain. Really, the most incendiary stuff was coming from Bob "Mr. Objectivity" Schieffer ...

To learn more about WESLEY CLARK positions; suggest you research Google and you'll find his amazing reversal of valued standards. On May 11, '01 when he addressed Pulaski County GOP Lincoln Day Dinner in Little Rock, Arkansas, I believed Clark's remarks and thought he was an honorable man? Whereby he was glad USA has a great team in office, men like Colin Powell, Don Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, Condoleezza Rice... all people Clark knew well - including our president George W. Bush; saying we need them there? What differences seven years make, especially when thinking of running for president and or writing book(s)?
When Gen. Hugh Shelton was asked about supporting Wesley Clark for president; knowing Clark a long time he felt compromised, Shelton wouldn't disclosed his political party, but did say Clark wouldn't get his vote. Maybe reason Clark's earlier than planned withdrawal from Europe was to do with integrity and character issues?
Also as a matter of public record and Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), during appearance of CNBC's Capital Report hosted by Gloria Borger and Alan Murray, retired Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf was asked his opinion of Clark, my interpretation of what I read wasn't favorable. Clark's greatest condemnation was/is from the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff as NATO commander, military has many ways of removing commander's without embarrassment to all concerned, however if move is true; Clark was fired as NATO commander. Schwarzkopf commented, Shelton said he (Clark) was fired because of matters of character, integrity, which is highly negative statement. With removal of NATO commander Clark must be bitter and holds it against GWB and GOP or least his character reversal leads one to believe this way? As seven years has passed since GOP speaking, Wesley Clark confirmed his reversal of character by making below negative war record statement (character assassination) about John McCain.
CLARK: "Well, I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president." Applying same logic, if being relieved/fired/withdrawn as NATO commander certainly doesn't qualify Clark to hold any political USA office.
If this is the case; as far as I'm concerned he's not the right man for any USA political position.

Posted by: RAS
Guantanamo has prisoners of war who have been held captive (and tortured) as long (or longer) than McCain was held captive.
What high office does their captivity qualify them for?

Leadership in the Democratic National Committee alongside Howard Dean.

I think it's funny how Obama's people want to talk about the media being biased. Them claiming that this is a contraversy over nothing is too much! All they do is try and make their candidate look like a victim over nothing.

To Capt. Howard,

I suggest, with all due respect, that over the past decade or so, the military brass have been quite vocal, whether on active duty or not. I live in a military town and I read it in the local press from time to time. It seems that the military press has also entertained some very interesting comments over the past several years. Since the Republicans and the Bush White House in particular have chosen to politicize the military, it is only understandable that this so-called taboo has been b