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Posted at 12:00 AM ET, 02/27/2011

Icing on the cake

By Tom Toles

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By Tom Toles  | February 27, 2011; 12:00 AM ET
Categories:  Same-sex marriage  
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Comments

~~You are obviously clueless.
Dave
Posted by: OckamsRazor | February 28, 2011 12:17 PM~~~
or, OR, your paper wasn't worth the paper it was printed on....just sayin'.
Posted by: bertzel

My Reply...
Actually...
My statement is not printed on any paper; it is floating around in cyberspace some where looking for someone that has enough intelligence to understand the dynamics of cause and effect on human life.

I appreciate your fine intelligence but I would appreciate it if you would use it constructively.
I have a serious problem with Carl Rovites who are trying to destroy our Nation.
Dave

Posted by: OckamsRazor | February 28, 2011 5:08 PM | Report abuse

~~You are obviously clueless.
Dave
Posted by: OckamsRazor | February 28, 2011 12:17 PM~~~

or, OR, your paper wasn't worth the paper it was printed on....just sayin'.

Posted by: bertzel | February 28, 2011 2:18 PM | Report abuse

Freedom is being able to start your own corporation anytime you want. Yet workers in the USA whine and moan they are victims. Workers of the world want to have a chance to come to a place where they can excel and free their ideas.
Posted by: jornolibist

My Comment...
You mean freedom is having enough money to start your own business, excel and free your ideas.

I started my own newspaper and soon found out that I did not have enough money to keep up the cost of producing and distributing the newspaper and could not compete with established newspapers.

You are obviously clueless.
Dave


Posted by: OckamsRazor | February 28, 2011 12:17 PM | Report abuse

The narrative that corporations, the rich, and Conservatives 'treat people like dirt' isn't true. That lie isn't going to stick anymore.
Posted by: pararanger22

My Reply...
Your stiff neck English conservative bent is showing again.

The conservatives want to cut the funds to the social programs that help the poor and let the corporations do what ever they want to undermine the buying power of the working people. The obvious outcome of that ploy is to cause the demand side of economics to fail as well as the supply side of economics and the quality of life goes to hell for everyone.
When will you idiots get it?
Why the flat learning curve?
Dave


Posted by: OckamsRazor | February 28, 2011 10:11 AM | Report abuse

Freedom is being able to start your own corporation anytime you want. Yet workers in the USA whine and moan they are victims. Workers of the world want to have a chance to come to a place where they can excel and free their ideas.

Posted by: jornolibist | February 27, 2011 7:16 PM | Report abuse

" I want to make sure ALL tax increases go to you and your brethren, you seem to like them so much."
I am happy to pay my share of services and protections.
Posted by: GaryEMasters

My comment like it or not...
You get what you pay for but the big problem is that the government can tax you right into poverty no matter how much money you make.
Another big problem is that as long as there are surplus workers, corporations can reduce your wages to the starvation level.
Despite the current corruption of what is human; corporations do not have a heart and will do what ever it takes to improve their profits no matter who starves to death.
It is vital that all workers are paid the cost of living or more in order to support a functional nation.
The government is responsible for the equitable destitution of wealth so that the nation's people can survive.
When the demand side of economics fails; the nation falls into disrepair and chaos just like we have now.
Prices and wages must be adjusted to pay for necessary taxes and reasonable lifestyles (the needs of the nation and the needs of the people) no matter how many trillion dollars it takes.
Money is a means to an end not an end means.
Treating people like dirt is a dangerous game.
Dave


Posted by: OckamsRazor

------------------------

Are all corporations bad? I wouldn't trust most big banks farther than I could throw 'em but the amount of $$ most big corporations toss to charity is impressive. Bono works with a lot of them. Bill Gates gives billions to charity.

George Clooney was on with Bill Maher last month and made it clear that Conservatives gave way more cash to his causes in the Sudan than Liberals.

The narrative that corporations, the rich, and Conservatives 'treat people like dirt' isn't true. That lie isn't going to stick anymore.

Posted by: pararanger22 | February 27, 2011 4:54 PM | Report abuse

Take for example the DC Metro escalators and elevators maintained by a government union staff with current performance of 105 existing escalators and elevators outages. Metro could easily improve performance by injecting some competition into the system by using private maintenance contracts, but since the government unions have no competition the only incentive the union has is to keep enough escalators broken to keep having the taxpayers pay more money to the unions so the unions can solve the problems they themselves created. This is why the State of Wisconsin is going broke as the teachers union demanded the state pay for ed drugs while at the same time Wisconsin ranks 50th this year in reading scores for 4th grade African American students. Yes, even worse than DC schools.

Posted by: billybeer6

-----------------------

This is a great post. Nice work.

Posted by: pararanger22 | February 27, 2011 4:48 PM | Report abuse

The 1962 record low temp of 39 degrees in Hollywood could be broken on Oscar night tonight.

Posted by: jornolibist | February 27, 2011 12:23 PM | Report abuse

~~~~~~Treating people like dirt is a dangerous game.
Dave~~~
I don’t know, dave. Dirt can be treated very well. It can be; raked, tilled, enriched, watered, seeded, weeded, admired, allowed to produce, make profit, valued and needed.
What’s wrong with that?

~~~The government is responsible for the equitable destitution of wealth so that the nation's people can survive.~~~

Equitable Destitution dave????

jornolibist...I don't know much about Klein other than some of his recent articles which have 'caught my eye.' As the one I mentioned. I'm sure you know more than I concerning his writings and doings.

BlueTwo1.....I agree with your civil union comment.

Posted by: bertzel | February 27, 2011 12:14 PM | Report abuse

Is Klein still sticking with his eating only five meat meals a month to save the planet from manmade global warming or in this case animal made as he wrote in the award winning Washpo Food section a year or so ago?

Posted by: jornolibist | February 27, 2011 12:05 PM | Report abuse

~~ A world without organized labor is a world where workers have less voice and corporations are even more dominant and unchecked across both the economy and the political system. That isn’t healthy—not for workers and, in the long run, not even for corporations.
But to change it, labor has to do more than cheat death. It has to find a new lease on life nationally. Ezra Klein~~~~

Yep, just as I thought....much ado about nothing.

Posted by: bertzel | February 27, 2011 11:27 AM | Report abuse

Marriage between a man and a man is unTraditional and therefore contrary to God's Will. What God has joined together let no man put asunder. The part of the Christian marriage ceremony that states God's authority over man. The injuction is taken from the Bible, Matthew 19:6. Okay. The religious bona fides having been thoughly established, how in the world does our secular government have the authority to deny civil union to same sex couples? By secular I mean what it says about church and state in the U.S. Constitution. Get your religion OUT of MY government. Of course, if your religion starts paying taxes, I may change my mind.

Posted by: BlueTwo1 | February 27, 2011 11:19 AM | Report abuse

Rice is also a 'sign' of China...

Posted by: bertzel | February 27, 2011 11:11 AM | Report abuse

Don't say Frisco. "They" don't like it when you call San Francisco Frisco....guess it's ok to say San Fran tho.
Oh gee, I see E Klein popped up on my screen telling us about why Unions are worth fighting for...guess I better go read his words of 'wise-dumb'.

Posted by: bertzel | February 27, 2011 11:10 AM | Report abuse

Sunday's Toles cartoon is darkly ironic. Rice has been thrown at wedding couples from time immemorial as a ritual sign of fertility.

Posted by: torrancekirby | February 27, 2011 11:05 AM | Report abuse

Take for example the DC Metro escalators and elevators maintained by a government union staff with current performance of 105 existing escalators and elevators outages. Metro could easily improve performance by injecting some competition into the system by using private maintenance contracts, but since the government unions have no competition the only incentive the union has is to keep enough escalators broken to keep having the taxpayers pay more money to the unions so the unions can solve the problems they themselves created. This is why the State of Wisconsin is going broke as the teachers union demanded the state pay for ed drugs while at the same time Wisconsin ranks 50th this year in reading scores for 4th grade African American students. Yes, even worse than DC schools.

Posted by: billybeer6 | February 27, 2011 11:03 AM | Report abuse

Light snow fell in San Francisco yesterday a first since 1976. I am sure if Tidwell lived out in Frisco he would add this to his subjective list of proof of manmade global warming as he has added heavy rain and wind. San Francisco has also seen a rare snowfall in 1882, 1951 and 1964 so it looks like the climate has been changing for quite awhile there.

Posted by: jornolibist | February 27, 2011 10:56 AM | Report abuse

~~Thanks for sharing. I really am happy for the protections the FDA gives me and want to pay my fair share.

Gary
Posted by: GaryEMasters | February 27, 2011 7:54 AM~~~

That's nice...what about all the money that is also wasted in that department..perhaps that is where your 'fair share' goes...

Posted by: bertzel | February 27, 2011 10:30 AM | Report abuse

~~~I'm not in a union, but I stand with the protestors! Solidarity!

Posted by: PrairieDog60 | February 26, 2011 9:11 PM~~~

Ignorance at its finest....your sob stories are blah, blah, blah and you aren't telling me anything new dog...go chase your tail somewhere else.

Posted by: bertzel | February 27, 2011 10:27 AM | Report abuse

"My comment like it or not..."

Dave:

Thanks for sharing. I really am happy for the protections the FDA gives me and want to pay my fair share.

Gary

Posted by: GaryEMasters | February 27, 2011 7:54 AM | Report abuse

" I want to make sure ALL tax increases go to you and your brethren, you seem to like them so much."
I am happy to pay my share of services and protections.
Posted by: GaryEMasters

My comment like it or not...
You get what you pay for but the big problem is that the government can tax you right into poverty no matter how much money you make.
Another big problem is that as long as there are surplus workers, corporations can reduce your wages to the starvation level.
Despite the current corruption of what is human; corporations do not have a heart and will do what ever it takes to improve their profits no matter who starves to death.
It is vital that all workers are paid the cost of living or more in order to support a functional nation.
The government is responsible for the equitable destitution of wealth so that the nation's people can survive.
When the demand side of economics fails; the nation falls into disrepair and chaos just like we have now.
Prices and wages must be adjusted to pay for necessary taxes and reasonable lifestyles (the needs of the nation and the needs of the people) no matter how many trillion dollars it takes.
Money is a means to an end not an end means.
Treating people like dirt is a dangerous game.
Dave


Posted by: OckamsRazor | February 27, 2011 2:54 AM | Report abuse

Well pararanger22, first I think you need to accept that legislators subcontracting to their "friends" and padding public payrolls with their under skilled supportors, while changing laws governing employer (including state & local governments)payments to pension plans, are the true cause of too expensive government payrolls. Second, I'd suggest you read the 3/7/2011 Time article - "Meet Your Government Workers" for a view more realistic than that espoused by our conservative pundits. Finally, you should also consider the points noted by prariedog60 in these comments. If more citizens do not demsand better governance, the USA will devolve into a second rate world power and that won't be good for any of us.

Posted by: tscribe111 | February 27, 2011 12:45 AM | Report abuse

Me, I prefer keeping my net costs as low as possible. If I can get a service from my federal or state or local government for 10-15% less than I would pay private industry for the same service, the fact that what I pay is called a "tax" doesn't bother me at all.

Posted by: jonroesler

-------------------------

It's just that kind of thinking that has led us to fiscal ruin. You think government is running a sound, fiscal program for your toll roads? That 10-15% 'bump' is what it actually costs to run the toll road. That private company is providing real jobs, with real paychecks, that go back into the economy.

You think paying taxes will fix these issues but when you break it down, you're just tossing your money away. Yes, jon, there are some things government can do, must do, but we pay way too much in taxes for way too little in return. It's time for a big change in the way we do business.

Posted by: pararanger22 | February 26, 2011 11:28 PM | Report abuse

Tom, am laughing hard at the sketch toon. Well done!

My dad was a union man. UTU, United Transportation Union. He was a railroad worker. He would tell stories of guys getting hurt on the job back in the pre-union days. They'd get in bad accidents while switching or loading, etc, and be crippled for life. The railroad would give them $100 and say bye-bye. That was it. He was a staunch supporter of unions, as they made life much better for he and his coworkers, and the families of all those workers as well. (And if you think these barbaric kinds of workplaces don't exist in the US now, visit a meatpacking plant sometime, and look up Human Rights Watch to read how the big meatpacking companies, like Tyson, do everything they can to prevent unions from forming in those slaughterhouses.)

In 1960, dad was able to feed a family of 7 kids on a railroad man's salary. We didn't have a lot of fancy things, but we were never hurting for food or clothing or the basics. Can you imagine trying to feed a family that large on a railroad salary today? Neither can I. Why is that? Times have changed, right?

Why?

Why can't one hard working person put in a full day's work, and come home knowing that the kids are okay, knowing that the wife/husband is taking care of them and they didn't have to go to daycare because mom didn't have to get a job to suppliment the family income?

Conservatives rail about the "loss of family values" all the time. What's more "family values" than being able to have one parent stay home and take care of the kids? What's more "family values" than knowing that both parents would be sitting at the table with the kids for supper, rather than one or both of them having to run off to work a second job?

Oh, I know...it's those damn liberals! They're to blame! And the environmentalists...and government employees...and teachers!

Breaking news folks; huge profits, a continuous growth economic model, corporations getting whatever they want from bought-and-paid-for politicians, and pure greed are the reasons 90% of us can't feed our family on one blue-collar income anymore.

And how did these things come about? Let's see...tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy...deregulation...union busting...moving good jobs offshore to save labor costs...moving factories to other countries to avoid environmental regulation...merge merge merge until you become too big to fail, etc. Can anyone tell me what political party leads the way facilitating such things?

Unfortunately the Democrats are drinking the koolaid of free markets these days too. What you're seeing in Madison, WI is the result of people fed up with being marginalized, not by "liberals" or "taxes" or all the Fox brainwashing tea partiers were buying into (taxes for everyone have seldom been lower than they are now). This is about working people getting the shaft over and over again, and finally standing up.

I'm not in a union, but I stand with the protestors! Solidarity!

Posted by: PrairieDog60 | February 26, 2011 9:11 PM | Report abuse

Given time jon, everything will skyrocket in price...already there and getting worse. I see no end in sight.

Posted by: bertzel | February 26, 2011 7:01 PM | Report abuse

Oops, no offense meant, bert, but on the energy thing? Give it time.

By the way, one of the things I've noticed driving from O'hare to Milwaukee is that the roads suddenly get BETTER on the Wisconsin side. And the tolls go away.

Condition of the roads? Do you know anybody, anywhere, who is satisfied with the condition of their local roads? (I do not.) Still, how many of us are begging our state or local governments to spend more money on repairs and pass the cost on to us? (Me neither.)

If you were from Northern Indiana, though, and worked in Chicago and commuted via the Indiana Skyway (I'm not, but have made the same trip), you might now be taking comfort in the fact that you are paying $7 per round trip to a private company to use the Skyway, vs. the former $6 per round trip to the state. The $7 isn't a tax, though. ; )

Posted by: jonroesler | February 26, 2011 4:44 PM | Report abuse

~~~Or energy production... I'm pretty sure the Koch bros. will be adding a profit margin to what the cheeseheads are already paying for energy, meaning that the amount paid for the same amount of energy will increase. If it makes you feel better knowing that the extra money you are paying is not called, "taxes," even though there's more coming out of your pocket, well, bully for you...jonroesler~~~

Gee jon...no reason to call names.

fyi...we pay plenty already for our roads...and actually the condition of our roads are quite bad...perhaps if more money actually went towards the roads??? I can say the same for education.

Also, I get my electric service thru WPS. It's parent company is Integrys Energy based in Chicago Illinios. I already have had my prices increase and they continually increase and I so love those add on fees...Hell they even charge me for the privilege of being billed!!!
Gotta love it : )
So....you were saying?

Posted by: bertzel | February 26, 2011 4:02 PM | Report abuse

So, ranger, paying tolls to a state in order to subsidize highway maintenance is a bad thing, but paying even higher tolls to a private corporation for maintaining those same highways (plus profit for the private company) is a good thing?

I'm just not seeing the value in paying the extra bump for profit, and getting nothing in return. That's been pretty much the same logic used in the health care debate, though, and it seems a whole lot of people are adamant that they be allowed to pay a 30% surcharge to private insurance companies for the same services they could get from Medicare (or equivalent) for more like 5%.
Oh, except Medicare actually negotiates reduced prices for certain drugs.

Or energy production... I'm pretty sure the Koch bros. will be adding a profit margin to what the cheeseheads are already paying for energy, meaning that the amount paid for the same amount of energy will increase. If it makes you feel better knowing that the extra money you are paying is not called, "taxes," even though there's more coming out of your pocket, well, bully for you.

Me, I prefer keeping my net costs as low as possible. If I can get a service from my federal or state or local government for 10-15% less than I would pay private industry for the same service, the fact that what I pay is called a "tax" doesn't bother me at all.

Posted by: jonroesler | February 26, 2011 3:41 PM | Report abuse

Tom Burke
Union Man for 44 Years

Posted by: chicagobears

----------------

Blah, blah, blah.

You can have your private unions (I'll stand on a picket line to help preserve those).

But not public unions. Feds can't collective bargain - why should states?

Posted by: pararanger22 | February 26, 2011 2:42 PM | Report abuse

and, AND...Packers Rule!!!!

Posted by: bertzel | February 26, 2011 2:10 PM | Report abuse

Tom Burke....I too belonged to AFL-CIO...you do not have to teach me about the does and don'ts of unions.
Thanks.

Posted by: bertzel | February 26, 2011 2:08 PM | Report abuse

No matter how you feel about Unions, they have the right to express themselves in a Democratic fashion and that means through representation. Don't forget,the revolution for our independence was fought over Taxation without representation. When was the last time your Doctor called you to get your OK to raise his or her's office visit fees? The reason we have unions is because a group of workers that do or were trained to do a similar job could bargain collectively so that one voice could be heard. Don't forget, all we are, are people trying to make a living to feed and educate our families. When Walker took office the first thing he did in January was to give big corporations $137 Millon in tax incentives and breaks,then comes back in Feb. and says the state has a $140 Million shortfall, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. Let me make a small comparison. The US has a duly elected President, Vice President, the Executive Branch consisting of the House,Senate and Judiciary to do the will of the people. The Uinon's have a duly elected President, Vice President, Executive Board, and various other committies who represent their members. Any decisions made affecting the members must be brought before those members for a vote. You can't get much more democratic then that! Union's operate in a similar fashion as the government and the dues they charge is the way they exist. The Government charges and income tax which also allows them to exist. This is democracy regardless whether you like the unions or not, they are practicing the democracy everyday. This is why collective bargaining is so important to the unions. To try to remove it is like taking away their democratic right of representation. Whats next the freedom of expression, sppech etc? You tell me. You all need to stand by the Unions during this ordeal or the next thing we have is a Plutocracy where corporations own and run your government. Wake up America!!!

Tom Burke
Union Man for 44 Years

Posted by: chicagobears | February 26, 2011 1:38 PM | Report abuse

~~~And the ability of the Wisconsin governor to sell state-owned power plants at bargain-basement prices to the Koch brothers' subsidiaries? Well, we're not supposed to notice that.

Posted by: CalypsoSummer | February 26, 2011 11:43 AM ~~~

Since when is it against the law for government to sell 'stuff'? Beit land, buildings, whatever.

some of you people really got a 'hard..' for the Koch bros. And your accusation just proves that...talk about conspiracy theories! Geeze!!

We don't need unions any longer and public unions are not good for government or the tax payer which supports the government and those in Madison who have said they are willing to negotiate now and 'pay their fair share'(there words not mine) just proves that point.

Posted by: bertzel | February 26, 2011 1:06 PM | Report abuse

The money that goes to pay workers comes STRAIGHT OUT OF THE TAXPAYER'S POCKETS! Oooh! Oooh! Cue the outrage!

However, the big honkin' tax reductions to wealthy Republican donors somehow just. . . evaporates. Poof! Never affects the taxpayers at all. Isn't that interesting!

Money that goes to workers is OUTRAGEOUS! Money that goes to the wealthy is perfectly reasonable.

And the ability of the Wisconsin governor to sell state-owned power plants at bargain-basement prices to the Koch brothers' subsidiaries? Well, we're not supposed to notice that.

Posted by: CalypsoSummer | February 26, 2011 11:43 AM | Report abuse

~~~So which state has more liberty? Maryland? Or Wisconsin?

I vote for Maryland and am happy to live in a land of liberty.

Posted by: GaryEMasters | February 26, 2011 7:59 AM~~~

Hmmm....describe 'Liberty'......

jorno...WI has no toll for road usage per se.

Posted by: bertzel | February 26, 2011 11:21 AM | Report abuse

Oh I see. Tax increases are always bad, but cost increases that benefit the private sector are good!
Wait. Am I not still paying a toll?

Posted by: Rudesan | February 26, 2011 8:18 AM | Report abuse

" I want to make sure ALL tax increases go to you and your brethren, you seem to like them so much."

I am happy to pay my share of services and protections.

Posted by: GaryEMasters | February 26, 2011 8:09 AM | Report abuse

So which state has more liberty? Maryland? Or Wisconsin?

I vote for Maryland and am happy to live in a land of liberty.

Posted by: GaryEMasters | February 26, 2011 7:59 AM | Report abuse

They together equal extinction
Posted by: paraelvotante
--
What? Are there so many same-sex oriented people that allowing them to marry would actually threaten extinction of the human race? Wow!

jorno, take a look at what happened in Indiana. The very red state couldn't see its way to raising tolls because, well, that would be the same as a tax increase, and, well, we just can't abide tax increases. So Mitch Daniels and friends raised some short-term cash by privatizing (by lease) the Indiana toll road system. Guess what happened then?

Really, you can't make stuff up like this.

Posted by: jonroesler

-----------------------

Seriously? What state are you from - I want to make sure ALL tax increases go to you and your brethren, you seem to like them so much.

Posted by: pararanger22 | February 26, 2011 7:56 AM | Report abuse

I think Uncle Sam may have come for the show. Somebody wrote "rice" where it should say "popcorn".

Jim

Posted by: swanjame | February 26, 2011 4:50 AM | Report abuse

They together equal extinction
Posted by: paraelvotante
--
What? Are there so many same-sex oriented people that allowing them to marry would actually threaten extinction of the human race? Wow!

jorno, take a look at what happened in Indiana. The very red state couldn't see its way to raising tolls because, well, that would be the same as a tax increase, and, well, we just can't abide tax increases. So Mitch Daniels and friends raised some short-term cash by privatizing (by lease) the Indiana toll road system. Guess what happened then?

Really, you can't make stuff up like this.

Posted by: jonroesler | February 26, 2011 12:06 AM | Report abuse

Scott Walker is saving his state from raising tolls on the roads.

Posted by: jornolibist | February 25, 2011 10:09 PM | Report abuse

They together equal extinction

Posted by: paraelvotante | February 25, 2011 9:52 PM | Report abuse

Viva the changes that occur as the number of young folks begins to add up in the voting population (i.e. not so brainwashed by the Vatican and other similar Really Old Dark Ages nonsense).

Posted by: lufrank1 | February 25, 2011 9:37 PM | Report abuse

And another thing....why do you always 'deal' with same sex couples in the form of men??? hmmm???

Posted by: bertzel | February 25, 2011 5:34 PM | Report abuse

I give Walker a lot of credit there Toles but I think you are giving him too much as far as being that good of a shot! :)

Posted by: bertzel | February 25, 2011 5:32 PM | Report abuse

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