Count me as one of those people who offers zero support for rail to Dulles UNLESS it is some sort of express/limited stop service from Vienna to Dulles and this could be accomplished quite nicely and at significantly lower cost than the proposed Metro approach by using light rail. A stop in "East Tysons", one at Westpark Drive and one in "West Tysons" would probably do the trick with a transition point at the Orange Line terminus in Vienna. The right-of-way either exists or would not as difficult to secure.

I cannot imagine anyone taking Metro on a regular basis from North Reston to downtown with a trip which could take 90 minutes or more. However, I agree that offering people a FAST and convenient option for getting from the airport to downtown is needed for all of the reasons pointed out in this article.

I take the metro to Whichever Falls Church and the bus from there. And I live way out on the red line, so it's not all that convenient...but it gets me there.

My husband an I were horrified to discover that there is no reasonable way to get to Dulles from Baltimore. This is what we did for a two week trip to Europe last year...We rented a car. It was cheaper than a van service ($180!) and even cheaper than driving and parking. We just rent the cheapest car we can find and it gets dropped of in 24 hrs. It cost us $100 total. Not cheap, but the best option.

It's hard to support a rail line when the Access Road already exists.

Either Bus Rapid Transit or an expansion of the current bus system from West Falls just seems like the right thing to do.

Sorry, as much as I'd love a better way to get to Dulles, an expansion of the Metro line just seems like a bad idea.

While I sympathize with you (I ferried lots of friends to Dulles over the years), I don't think the current line as it's set up is a good idea. Mostly because of the diversion through Tyson's Corner.

A simple spur run from West Falls along the median of the Access/Toll Road would have been best, and probably caused less controversy. I don't think it needed to be a pure express line, but I agree express service would have been preferable.

Perhaps one of the shuttle services should start offering regular and frequent "express" rides from the West Falls station to Dulles via the access road using shuttles. That would probably work a whole lot better...

try to get the flight to Madrid for 500+ ..all booked ..how many were available ? one?

umm, it's called the Washington Flyer Bus from West Falls Church Metro. $16 round trip. No traffic because it runs on the toll road. The only downside is the WFC metro station has a non-working elevator right now.

And if you think the 5A Metro bus express to Dulles is long now, wait until you get on a silver line with 16 stops before you get to the airport.

The last time my wife and I drove to Dulles and parked, it took as long to get from the economy lot to the terminal as it took to drive from home (Arlington) the airport in the first place! Maybe longer... so I've become a "fan" of taking the 5A bus from Rosslyn.

That itself has its issues: The bus is too crowded, there's not enough room for luggage, it doesn't always run on schedule (and w/out NextBus, you can only guess how late it might be), it only runs once an hour on weekends and it wastes time with by taking the least efficient route through the Tysons and Herndon-Monroe bus stops. And there's no useful signage to find the bus stop when you're leaving from Dulles. But it still has a decent chance of saving time compared to driving, plus it's way cheaper.

The Washington Flyer bus can work, but its schedule is even more limited than the 5a bus. $9 to from WFC Metro to Dulles seems a little steep. And why doesn't it take payment by SmarTrip already?

The current Metro plan could be improved in many ways, but it would still be a vast improvement over today's embarrassing state of affairs.

Wrong wrong wrong. The chances that you will take rail, when it would take over an hour (at rush hour with maximum trains running) to even reach the district, with large bags is about zero.

If they redesigned the project, with express service, it would increase the likelihood of people actually using it to get to IAD. Otherwise, it will be an extraordinarily expensive boondoggle that will not serve any of the purposes it is supposed to.

Since I live in Ballston it is easy to ride 2 stops to WFC and take the Washington Flyer shuttle bus. It takes about the same amount of time to get to Dulles as it takes me to get to DCA by the time I change trains at Rosslyn. The bus runs every 30 minutes so if you time it right there isn't that much of a wait.

Count me among those who never thought this metro to Dulles thing was a good idea. Metro has too much trouble operating the system that is in place now. The Orange line is completely overloaded during rush hour as it is. Adding in thousands more riders from Loudon and Tysons makes no sense. They should have taken a more serious look at Bus Rapid Transit options linked to the existing system to get people back and forth to the airport.

On weekdays you can take Marc to BWI from Union station, and on weekdays and weekends there's the B30 bus from Greenbelt to BWI, so it's not toally cut off. Granted, from Marc you do have to take a bus to the terminal.

I don't fly out of Dulles either, precisely becuase it's so much of a pain to get there and back, and parking is abysmaly expensive compared to BWI. if Metro ran out there it certainly would make things easier in terms of getting there and back. The realitve ease of not having to make a train transfer to a bus and then having to battle interstae traffice would be really nice.

Give me a break! I've taken the 5A bus numerous times and never had a problem with the less than 5 stops and express lane route.

If you can't hack that, and you don't have 50 dollars for a cab, then you have no business going overseas anyway.

How would the Metro be different from the bus, in terms of taking a long time (and being subject to unexpected delays), making a number of stops, and having no space for luggage (at least at busy times)? This proposal always seemed to be catering only to the stereotype that rail travel is cooler than bus travel.

with BWI easy to get to national only slightly more $ than dulles, i never venture to the dark side anymore. nothing about dulles makes it worthwhile.

Oh c'mon! The 5A bus to Dulles is a great deal! This post makes it sound like the route has dozens of stops before arriving at IAD.

Not so: If you get on at L'Enfant (the start-point of the route, so it's almost always on time), you'll make either two or three stops (depending on time of day/day of week) on the way to Dulles. Even the longest ride is about an hour. For the $3 fare, I consider it the best bargain in town.

I've endured less-direct routes on the loathsome Super Shuttle and paid far more for the privilege!

And if you want to shave a stop off the trip, have the friend/boyfriend/parent drop you at Rosslyn (a much easier schlep than all the way to Dulles!) instead of L'Enfant. Then you've got 2 stops at most before you make it to the airport. Everybody wins!

Two or three stops over more than 30 miles is hardly a donkey ride, Talcott.

"It's just a headache to get to, plain and simple."

Not everyone lives where you are. I take a taxi to Dulles, it costs less than $20, and I go nowhere near 66 or 495. Reagan is far more of a headache to get to (and BWI is barely worth considering).

Of course your choice of airport should depend on where you live, and it's no surprise that you prefer Reagan, while I prefer Dulles. Kind of an obvious point, I thought.

I hate to sound cynical, but I always felt that the only true beneficiaries of the Silver Line were developers and land speculators. What economic projection could be used to support the $2B+ construction cost, let alone ongoing operations and maintenance?

If the key issue is providing direct service to Dulles and express buses are not sexy enough, use the existing right-of-way to build a roadway for a rubber tired vehicle similar to a trolley/street car with a terminus near Daily Lot #1. Include a stop in Tysons with another midway to the airport.

Then, build a separate line from Reston to WFC or Vienna using the same technology.

I agree with yawn...living near the intersection of FXCO Parkway and I-66 I can be at Dulles in 20 minutes if I hit the lights just right on 28 and never more than 45 minutes on a bad day. I have bad luck with local cab companies, or I would use this option myself.

On the other hand, I need close to an hour for DCA if I have a midday flight or up to 2 hours for a morning or evening flight. Plus, the parking garages at DCA are terrible.

I live 20 minutes from Dulles in CLifton and that includes parking the car in the $15 a day a lot and getting to the main terminal. BWI please never unless I am saving over $300 a person. National why!
And what are you whining about remember the bad old when Dulles was in the middle of no where. And I can park at National for free any time. I hate flying out of that airport. landing on a carrier at night in gale force winds in a thunderstorm is safer. Been there down that!

You seem to be implying that the taxpayers have an obligation to provide you and others easy transportation to whatever airport you deem the most economical to you. There is already one airport serviced by Metro, sorry it doesn't have the fares you'd like. Your pole lists six different ways to get to Dulles, don't ask me to fund #7.

Wow, a lot of opinions out there, and a lot of great points! I agree that, ok, the 5A bus doesn't have that many stops, and the Washington Flyer is a fine option.
I'm a big public transport fan, and while buses are great in many situations, I'll admit that I'm partial to trains (maybe after too many bad experiences on the 30 buses between Glover Park and downtown at rush hour).
Also, I've really appreciated the ease of getting to National on the Metro, even from the Maryland suburbs on the Red line, and from relaxing, reliable trips to BWI on the MARC train (or Amtrak on the weekends). That's not to mention smooth trips from, say, Philly's airport into Center City on the SEPTA light rail, or Paris's Charles de Gaulle airport right into the Latin Quarter on the RER commuter train (barring any strikes, of course!).
I'm especially curious to hear from out-of-towners who've had to deal with getting to and from Dulles (or BWI or National, for that matter). Is the hassle all in my head?
Christina

The last time I missed a flight out of Dulles due to traffic, I swore that I would never again fly out of IAD unless I was going to an international destination that is not served by flights out of BWI. So far, that hasn't happened (though I have been flying to domestic cities only, anyway).

To "yawn": DCA is not an international airport, so even if you live right next to it in Alexandria/Arlington, you're not helped if you want to go to Europe. Still, in general I like the idea of people choosing airports at least in part by proximity to their homes.

I can't help thinking that a VRE line between Dulles and DC, with maybe a couple of stops in between, would be the optimal situation. Or how about a light rail, like the one that connects BWI with Baltimore (after all, BWI *is* supposed to be Baltimore's airport)? Let's think outside the box.

There is already a bottleneck at Rosslyn between Orange and Blue trains with delays almost every day. Adding trains to the Orange line will exacerbate this. So add some substantial tunnel-sitting outside the Rosslyn station to the 90 minutes it will take to get from Dulles to downtown. Spend x billion on an extension, then start asking for (a lot) more money to dig another track in Rosslyn to make it work? Faster service to Dulles is needed, but Metro expansion isn't the way to do it.

Of course most of those domestic cheap flights leave at 6am... so Metro rail and bus doen't help there.

For work trips (international) I always fly out of Dulles since cab fare is reimbursed. For everything else I fly out of National unless there's significantly more than a $120 (r/t taxi) difference. I've flown to the UK before via Chicago from National for personal travel-- one stop isn't too bad going international.

Hi, Christina--

I've discussed this issue with Andrea in the past. But to reiterate, particularly if you live in the middle of the city, as you indicated in your posting this morning.

Please know that BWI offers outstanding access, including excellent and convenient transit options. BWI has some of the best transit access of any American airport. The BWI rail station is among the busiest in the nation, with commuter, regional, and high speed trains to Washington.

And beyond MARC or Amtrak trains from Washington to BWI, travelers can try Metro! The BWI Express / B-30 Metrobus route is direct link between the Metro and BWI. It's a quick, easy, and inexpensive transit alternative for BWI travelers. The BWI Express Metrobus runs every 40 minutes, all day, between the Greenbelt Metro station on the Green Line and BWI.

The BWI Express is a great way to take Metro to BWI, and it's a great way to travel.

Thanks for flying BWI!

--Jonathan Dean
Baltimore/Washington International Thurgood Marshall Airport

The environment would hardly be helped by a massive construction project poisoning the atmosphere and the watershed. This is particularly true given that it's questionable how many people would actually use Metro to Dulles.

Huzzah's to Ms. Talcott for not owning a car, though! That's an ideal way to not pollute.

Where is this "Reagan Airport" that some people are mentioning in the comments? It seems like it could be a good fourth option.

Where is this "Reagan Airport" that some people are mentioning in the comments? It seems like it could be a good fourth option.

Posted by: Lindemann | January 28, 2008 01:19 PM

*************

Awesomely funny!!

Getting to BWI (over IAD) is a pain?! I think that shows just a little bit of Capital City bias. From the heart of downntown DC, BWI is only 4 miles further a trip than it is to IAD. Yet, you've got MARC - get it on a weekday, and it's an $8 ticket - you can even get express trains that, from Union Station, stop only at New Carrollton before arriving at BWI (a 25 minute trip - and hey, no highway tie-ups). Otherwise, you've got Amtrak, and as the good people at BWI pointed out, an express bus between Green Line Greenbelt Metro and the BWI terminals.

So if BWI is a pain, it's only for the fact that it doesn't have nearly the same international service as IAD. Frankly, I'd cringe at having to Metro all the way from Downtown DC to IAD. You want to complain at how many stops the buses hit along I-66? You'll get every single one of the stops that appear on the line from Dulles to downtown with all stops at Tysons then on to all stops from Vienna all the way in to center city. Talk about a pain....

Many apologies. Make that $6 a ticket on MARC to BWI from Union Sta. rather than $8.

MARC + $6 + BWI = win. I never fly out of Dulles.

I think some people may be missing the point. Ok, real quick, kill the VRE option, since there aren't any freight tracks anywhere NEAR that area, which is what the commuter systems here use. Any type of rail infrastructure would have to built from the ground up, and no one is going to build a BRT system when there is already a pretty good bus system in place that uses the express lanes and the access road. You would still have to use the existing roads at some point. The next thing to consider is the fact that an express line bypassing Tysons for the airport is just plain stupid, since that was the whole point of the line anyway. Tysons Corner is one of main economic engines for the region and the state of Virgina, so not providing any type of mass transit to it makes no since. For those of you who think that it would encourage more sprawl, you may need to take a day trip out to Leesburg (and beyond) to see how far the area has sprawled out. It's too late for that. Remember, not everyone can afford to be close in to DC and still be in a decent size living space.
I think that they should at least see if they can get the first phase (to Reston) accomplished, and apply for the second phase (to Dulles) down the line. I think that would be significantly less money to the point where the Feds wouldn't be needed.

Unfortunately the Feds money was earmarked for the Tyson's pahse of the project, not the Dulles part. I would hope that once this project is really a go Metro would really look hard at redoing the yellow/blue lines so that they both go over the birdge and leave the tunnel for orange/silver trains.

Good point, EricS, I forgot that the first part is where the 900 mill comes in. It looks like even if the parties involved in the second phase (Loudoun County, Fairfax County, the commonwealth of Virginia, and the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority) were to take over funding for the the 43 percent of the first phase from the Feds, Loudoun County would probably drop out, since it wouldn't go out to them. Don't know how much of a loss that it would be though, but the Airport Authority would more than likely balk at it as well.
I also agree that they would be wise to decouple the Orange/Blue lines in VA, and maybe have an alternate service for the Arlington Nat'l Cemetery. That would alleviate the anticipated crowding that everyone is fearing. Oh well....

christina: The reason people are jumping all over this is you're off. Yes, Metro to DCA if you live in DC is a great option. That is because it is close.

For public transport out to Dulles, you have two great options from DC -- and both are MUCH better than the $5 billion proposed silver line. Also, both would have been cheaper.

I think a more constructive use is suggesting how you all of us could utilize these public options better: more frequent 5A buses, using the Dulles Access road with the 5a more to avoid traffic, better use of the West Falls church metro stop -- all of which are MUCH more cost-effective.

But clearly, somebody read the Post marching order to support the Silver line this morning...

Metro to Dulles in a boondoggle, and not only for the reasons that others have mentioned (e.g., long travel time with all the local stops through Reston and Tysons).

There's the no-so-slight problem of getting to and from the Metro station that is at the other end of any trip from the airport. For the outbound trip you can always call a cab in advance. But what about the return trip? I can't tell you how many times I've exited at the Falls Church, Springfield and Vienna stations to find NO CABS. So exactly HOW does one get from the Metro station to their home or office if no cabs are available and family and friends are also unavailable (e.g.they are at work)??? Compound that with a large roll-on and a laptop. Why all the bother? Because Metro, in their less-than-infinite wisdom, prohibits long term parking at their stations. So long as Metro prohibits long term parking at their stations, the Metro is not practical as airport travel for many people.

Then there is the mater of travel with luggage during rush hour. Rush hour passengers are not very nice to airport passengers with luggage. Compound that antipathy with an old style Metro car that has no luggage space, and you have the makings of an interesting ride. I've had some interesting verbal interchanges with rush hour travelers who did not appreciate my luggage when I traveled from Vienna to National (NOT Ray-Gun) Airport.

Unless Metro permits long-term parking and significantly modifies its cars to accommodate luggage for travelers, extending Metro to Dulles is a boondoggle.

About the out-of-towners: I've had three visitors in the last 6 months surprise me by telling me they'd meet me in Columbia Heights or on U Street because they were taking the Green Line (following the B30 bus) after landing at BWI.

It can be done!

One thing that annoyed me about the 5A when I rode it was that, unlike the B30 (which I ride a lot), it had no luggage rack. If the 5A has a luggage rack now, that would make it a much better choice for Dulles-going.

The W&OD could be converted back to its original form and become a railrood again so there is a route out to Tysons and beyond.

FWIW, Metro doesn't *completely* ban long-term parking, but they sure don't advocate it or make it easier.

Three stations - Greenbelt, Huntington, and Franconia-Springfield - allow 10 day long term parking at the standard daily lot rate. But they only have a handful of first-come, first-served spots.

http://www.wmata.com/metrorail/daily-parking.cfm

You say its a pain to get to BWI if you live in the middle of the city. If you really think that, it will still be even more of a pain to get to Dulles on Metro. For BWI, all you have to do is go to Union station and get a ticket on Amtrack or MARC. Pretty easy and it doesn't take more than 45 mn. If Dulles rail is built, you'll be able to hop on Metro, but I bet it will take an hour and a half. I'm for Dulles rail, but anyone who thinks rail to BWI is a pain similarly won't use rail to Dulles

Anon at 10:20, not exactly. Once you get to BWI you have to hop a bus from the train station to the airport. The Dulles metro stop would go straight to the terminal, so I understand.

I've taken the 5A bus from L'Enfant Plaza to Dulles numerous times. The price ($3, I think) can't be beat and it takes almost exactly one hour. The bus is allowed to use the access road so the times I've taken it, it hasn't been caught up in traffic.

I think that anyone who can afford to fly out of Dulles can afford to pay the toll! Why not turn the access road into a HOV road!
That said, why do we need a rail or metro line? So that we can guarantee that they won't redo, pull, or limit our "bus" service--as has happened in other times and places.
I think if they gone with a light rail or metro line straight out the toll road from West Falls Church and dumped the Tysons angle, we would be half way there now. I, for one, am tired of trying to access the metro from Loudoun county. There is no easy way to get to any station and when I have someone coming out here to visit I am always at a quandry where to tell them to meet me. I would love to access the metro without fighting my way there. How about a West Falls Church access from the toll road connector!!!?