Wu-Tang Clan's Pure Genius

No discussion about hip-hop's greatest groups is complete without considering Wu-Tang Clan. Other artists might have sold more albums and had bigger radio hits, but few acts in hip-hop have been as influential as the unwieldy and unruly Staten Island crew that turned the genre on its head in the 1990s. Obsessed with kung-fu, the Mafia, chess, swordplay, nicknames, minimalism, minor keys, twitchy samples and metaphor-laced street rhymes, Wu-Tang came roaring out of the underground in 1992 with the self-released single, "Protect Ya Neck." A classic album followed a year later in "Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers)," and then came the stunning string of solo efforts from the group's various stars: Method Man, Raekwon, Ol' Dirty Bastard, Ghostface Killah. There was also Gary "GZA" Grice's 1995 album, "Liquid Swords," which continues to be celebrated a dozen years later: The rapper also known as "Genius" was recently invited to perform "Liquid Swords" in its entirety at the Pitchfork Music Festival. GZA has a new solo album in the works, while Wu-Tang (sans the late Ol' Dirty Bastard) has been in the studio readying it first new group album in six years. The Washington Post's Pop Music Critic J. Freedom du Lac spoke with GZA in advance of Wu-Tang's performance on Sunday at Virgin Festival.

Washington Post: I understand that you're getting into film. Given that you're a deliberate writer obsesses over lyrics, how are you going to get a screenplay done? Writing a script isn't like writing 16 bars.
GZA: It's kind of similar to the way I write rhymes -- the way I reconsider words and craft my work. I take so long to write rhymes, why not write scripts? RZA said years ago that if you take three of my songs you got a movie. Script-writing is just something I wanted to do. I've been reading a couple books on it. I started two scripts but stopped because it requires more time than writing rhymes. But in some ways, it's easier because I don't have to worry about making certain words rhyme. If I'm writing a script about being in a hotel room, I can just write. It would be harder to put lyrics together because I'd have to find the right words that rhyme.

WP: Do you abide by any particular rules when you're writing?
GZA: Half short, twice strong. I once said that on "As High As Wu-Tang Get." "Yo, too many songs/Weak rhymes that's mad long/Make it brief, son/Half short and twice strong." They teach you that in screen-writing. And show, don't tell. A lot of rappers, all they do is tell; they don't show. As far as writing lyrics, it's the same thing. It's being able to take what you say in 10 bars and being able to say the same thing in four bars. It's being able to take eight bars and saying it in the hook. Why waste time on unnecessary details? Short and strong. Originality and creativity. Not being so obvious, not telegraphing your lines. Nowadays, most songs are so telegraphed. With the cadence of the expression, you can see where it's going.

WP: Hip-hop seems to be in a major creative slump right now. There aren't many good -- let alone great -- albums or mixtapes coming out, and the singles well is pretty dry, too. What happened?
GZA: You got a couple of flashy cats that done pulled up to the set in Bentleys and they flashy suits and it changed. That's how it is. Hip-hop is forever changing. And you still have your underground lyrical MCs. But that lyrical side is not there anymore. It's about being hard, it's about being thugged-out and having fly gear and dressing nice. Fashion is a part of hip-hop, but lyrically it should not only be about that. Nowadays, it's cool to be dumb, stupid, ignorant.

WP: Does anybody among the current crop of younger MCs stands out to you?
GZA: Of course. Lupe (Fiasco) is doing his thing. He's one of the young dudes out there that has lyrical talent, strong subject matter and good songs. And my son will probably just take everybody by storm and just let 'em know where hip-hop needs to be.

WP: It's pretty remarkable to look back at the stretch Wu-Tang had from 1993 to about 1996 -- starting with "Enter the Wu-Tang (36 Chambers)" and including those classic solo albums from Raekwon ("Only Built 4 Cuban Linx...") and Ghostface ("Ironman") and your own "Liquid Swords." Would you consider that the greatest run ever in hip-hop?
GZA: For that era, I'd say yes. But you have different eras. You have the golden era of hip-hop in the '80s. And then the second golden era -- or you can call it the platinum era -- of Wu-Tang. It was great music. It's like there was a drought right before we came out. Just like there's a drought now. If you go back to '86-'87-'88, there could be 30 MCs out at one time, and they'd all have different music but they were lyrically strong. Just talent, originality, records that were uniquely recorded. Take "The Great adventures of Slick Rick," a beautiful album. Lyrically and conceptually strong, a visual album. Around the same time, you had Biz Markie, Big Daddy Kane, Rakim, MC Lyte, Queen Latifah, Salt-N-Pepa. I could go on and on. No one sounded alike but they was all great. Now take 10 songs you hear on the radio today and they have the same subject matter, and they all sound similar. The voices are different, but the songs sound the same. But I'm pretty sure soon there will be another golden era. It will probably be our children who come with the new stuff.

Wu-Tang Clan, "C.R.E.A.M."

WP: You're known as something of a perfectionist in terms of your writing and your flow. Given the spontaneous, unpredictable nature of live performance, do you actually like getting up on stage?
GZA: I love it. I just think that when I'm out with the Clan, I'm more laid back. I was hanging out with Big Daddy Kane a few months ago, and he was saying, "RZA comes on has his thing, Ghost comes on and has his thing, Method has his thing." And he said, "Don't take this wrong, but you come on just nonchalant -- like I'm here, yeah, whatever." But he never saw me as a solo act. If you see me on stage by myself, you may see me in the middle of the crowd. I'm jumping off the speaker. It's a different kind of energy. With the Clan, there's 10 of us on stage, and I'm not out there as much.

WP: Are you one of stay-in-the-air-conditioned-trailer-and-chess-box-against-your-boys types, or do you like to get out and see other artists perform?
GZA: I like to see other artists perform, but usually we don't get there in time. On our shows lately, they've been having meet-n-greets, or we might get there early go do press. But usually, if we have a show at 10, we're leaving the hotel at 9:20 with a 20-minute drive. A lot of times we get to the venue and they're putting the mikes in our hands. We usually miss the performances before us. But if we're there early, I love to go out and watch. We were in Philly last year and I got there before the Clan -- early enough to see Rakim perform. I was like: Wow. Hit after hit after hit. Banger after banger.

WP: Now, for the requisite Stupid Pimlico-Related Question: If you owned a racehorse, what would you name it?
GZA: Maybe Liquid Swords. I always trip off racehorse names because they always have these unique names, like Electric Blue or Shining Star. Names that have nothing to do with running or trotting or galloping. Just crazy names.

WP: And you know a thing or two about crazy names.
GZA: I done heard many names in my lifetime.

WP: Scott Weiland, the singer for Velvet Revolver, wanted me to ask you who was more influential to Wu-Tang Clan between the Beatles and Grandmaster Flash.
GZA: Grandmaster Flash. I don't think most of the Clan is that familiar with the Beatles. I know some of their songs and I listened to a Beatles album on the way home from Europe. They made great music. Great songwriters. But coming up in the era of hip-hop, we knew more of the Grandmaster Flash songs. Now if you ask RZA, it might be an equal balance of both because he produces and is more in tune with that. The Beatles made great music. You hear their songs all the time. That's what great music is all about. It's timeless. If you listen to Grandmaster Flash's "The Message," that's a timeless song. I would give him a little more edge.

By J. Freedom du Lac |  August 3, 2007; 6:00 AM ET Artist Interview
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